COUNTERPOISON CONSIDERATIONS touching the points in difference between the godly ministers and people of the Church of England, and the seduced brethrens of the Separation.  
ARGUMENTS That the best assemblies of the present Church of England, are true visible Churches.  
That the Preachers in the best assemblies of Engl. are true ministers of Christ.  
Mr BERNARD'S book entitled The SEPARATISTS SCHISM  
Mr CRASHAWES Questions propounded in his Sermon preached at the Crosse.  
Examined and Answered by HENRY AINSWORTH  Lord God the strength of my salvation; cover thou my head, in the Day of battle, Psal. 140.7. 
RIGHT RIGHT  
Printed in the year 1642.   

A fore-speech to the Christian reader.  
THE truth and church of God, by multitude of enemies, hath ever been disgraced and trodden down in the world that many which have seemed to love and seek after it, have stumbled at the reproach & oppotision of the same. Yet the godly wise have understood & discerned things that differ. It is a great help unto the weak and simple, when the deceits and snares wherewith the adversary seeketh to destroy the soul, are openly discovered, by the light of God's word and for this cause have I endeavoured according to the measure of knowledge and grace given unto me, to make answer unto such reasons cavils and calumniations, as are given out against that part of the truth, which this church witnesseth unto the world, touching our separation from the Church of Engl. the Considerations & Arguments first answered, were written by Mr Spr a Minister of Glocestershire; & in them (as I suppose) the sum and weight of that which may be said for that church, is comprised. Mr Bernard's book hath rather show then weight of reason, as the judicious reader may perceive; and seemeth to be penned by him, rather for disgrace of others then defence of themselves. But no better fruit can be expected from such as rebel against the light which themselves once seemed to regard. Mr Crashawes questions are rather to stumble at, then to direct the ignorant as having neither weight of argument against us nor for themselves. Yet as by all these means the truth is oppugned, so by all contrary good means it should be defended; that wisdom may be justified of all her children, and others left without excuse. How weak and insufficient the adversary's reasons are in partiular, the answers unto them more particularly will show. Here I will briefly observe, some general things whereby falsehood endeavoureth to uphold itself; and how it may by the prudent be descried. Untruth hat● sought to prevail.  
1. By persecuting such as have spoken against, or forsaken her iniquity. iniquity. This the blood of God's martyrs shed in all ages proclaimeth unto all men. And thus have the chief Pastors of the Church of England dealt with Christ's lambs, in these our days. For having gotten into their hands the sword of the Magistrate, they there with have smitten such as with the word, (the sword of the spirit) they could not convince. In which they fulfil the measure of their Fathers; for so have the Papal Prelates used to feed their flocks  
2. By blaspheming and preaching against the faith & witnesses thereof. For they that hold forth the truth are exposed to the reproach & venom of the tongue, and many unjust calumniations come forth against their persons, especially the principal of them, whom evil minded men do most malign. Also the cause itself is often wronged, whiles the truth thereof, and reasons that uphold it, are suppressed; arguments feighned and confuted which were never made, or otherwise made then the adversaries pretend; and sometimes such articles and errors imputed, as from which it is altogether free. How others heretofore have carried themselves this way, all records show: how men at this day have dealt with us and the truth which we embrace; many pulpits in Engl. can witness. besides private calumnies innumerable, and some public pamphletes. The stinch of their reproachful mouths, hath caused many to distaste the sweet savour of the Gospel, and caused also for a while a dislike in sundry of us, till God in mercy visited and saved us from the deceitful tongue.  
3. Yet is not this enough, but men seek to bear down the truth by writing against and to the defamation of the same, with all exquisite cunning and fraud to disgrace it, and by plausible reasons to persuade unto error. If any would see this, let the general arguments used at this day against us, consonant and agreeable to the reasons of Papists & other ancient adversaries of the Gospel, be observed.  
1. The Papists have continually exclaimed against them for leaving their mother the ch: of Rome that bore them; crying out the Church the Church, the Catholic church; and saying that 
a kellison's Survey. 2. book 1. chapt·s  Luther and all the pack of their first fathers, were children of their mother the Catholic Church and are gone out from them. And when the Protestants objected her sins, for which they left her, it was pleaded again, 
b Mr Giffords' dialogue bteweme a pap. & a pro●, f, 19 b,  will ye forsake your mother because she wanteth perfect beauty, or because there is some deformity in her & c? Moreover they would allege (to prove them schismatiks) how in that ch: 
c Calui●● opusc. Response. ad ve●s. quend Mediator.  th●y had been regenerated and made h●r citizens and members by baptism. &c that from her they had their first faith and knowledge, yea even 
d K●llisons Sur. 1 book 2. chap.  the Bible itself, which treasure their church ever had the custody of; and many such like.  
These are the main reasons objected to us at this day, they tell us the Church of England is the 
e See after in this treatise. pag. 49  mother of the faithful, that the ministry thereof 
f pag. 13.  hath begotten us, if ever we were truly begotten in the spirit; ask us 
a pag. 135.  where else we were regenerate, ●f not in the womb of that their church etc. And if we tell them of their transgressions, for which we forsake them, they answer, 
b Mr Crashawes ser. pag. 27.  though there were in our church these wounds you speak of, yet do they not come near the hart, they be not deadly, they may blemish the beauty but endanger not the life of our church. etc. 
c ibid. p. 28  therefore your separation from us, is schismatical and unjust. and many such like pleas they pretend.  
2, For the ch●rch of Rome, it hath by her Mediators been alleged, that 
d Calvin. Respons. ad versiple.  in her is retained the profession of Christ authorety of scriptures and Apostolic doctrine, as touching all the chief or capital articles of religion; and that the church is to be esteemed by the foundation thereof which is Chrst, on which foundation though they that came after, builded wood and hay and stubble instead of silver and gold and precious stones; yet have they not by and by departed from the foundation etc. Now who knoweth not, that this is the bulwark of the church of Eng. now, against all batteries, and one of the chiefest rea●ons whereby they reteyn many simple and well affected people among them? and that may be also seen in this book following pag. 43.105 119. & 123. and in many other of their writings.  
3. Universal consent agreement and applause of Churches in all nations, of Synods and Counsels, of Fathers and learned men have been the continual boast of Papists in all their books against the Protestants: now they in En●l to bear out their estate, urge again and again the like against us; that when God's word will not uphold them, yet man's word at least may honour them before the people. See after in this treatise. pag 9 & 22. & 44, & 5. & 89, 91.92.128.  
4. Whereas the truth hath brought for her defence the evident scriptures. 
e Gregory Martin Campion· Kellison. &c  papists have been wont to carp at the allegations and interpretations of them, and challenge their adversaries for corrupting them; the formal protestants in Engl. have done the like 
f D. Whing defen. of ans to admon: in the gen. tab: S.  against the Reformists, and they now use the like colour against us; but how truly. let the particulars show after in this book, pag. 90.91.97.  
5. To revile and calumniate such as forsook them hath been the common practice of Papists, calling them heretics, schismatics, Lutherens', Calumists etc. and matching them with wicked heretics heretofore, & now living: The same way do our adversaries now walk in proclaiming us to be schismatics, Seduced, Brownists, Donatists etc. and to make us the more odious unto the people, they enrol us sometime with the most vile blasphemers that they can mention. For he was esteemed a 
g Mr jos. Nichols  forward ●reacher am●ng them, who to grace his own cause by disgracing the truth, would needs 
h plea of the innocent pag, 33.34.  join us with the blasphemer Hacket, (sometimes a brother of the reformists, and hot maintainer of their cause,) & to make his malice the more remarkable, he puts in the margin of his book, The brownest and Hacket of an evil spirit; and that which he writeth besides, is so fraudulently set down, that the simple reader who know●th not our cause, may think that this Hacket was one of us. This abuse we su●fer, because (forsooth) we were thought to hinder their counterfeit reformation, which Hacket would have set up by force for which they bear their reproach at his hands that wrote English Scottizing for discipline; but this man most injuriously would turn it upon us.  
These and the like arguments do evil men continually use against the truth which presseth them; and which they seek to suppress, but all in uayne: for it will prevail, mangre their opposition; and that which they think to hinder the Gospel's b●, God will turn to the furtherance of the same, and confusion of his adversaries.  
Against these and all other like colours wherewith false churches a● adorned, two means have been used for to discover the falsehood; th● one manifesting the fact or estate of a person or people; the other▪ the lawfulness of the same. The commandment of God is a lantern; and the law a light to declare what is good or evil: and evidences there are of every public estate and action. For in all ages God hath moved some to observe and speak against the abuses reigning; and some have recorded things for their glory, which turn unto their shame. ●y this mean● the skirts of the whore of Rome have been discovered, whiles some that loved, and othersome that loathed her, have painted out her filthiness: which being compared with the chastity of Christ's spouse set forth in holy writ, hath caused righteous men, (as was 
a Ezek. 23.45.  foretold to judge her children after the manner of harlots and of murderers; and the very horns of that beast, to hate the 
b Rev, 17, 16.  whore and burn her with fire. And we at this day that witness the truth against the remainders of that whore's cup, are driven to break silence & to plead for Christ in public, because the adversaries so importune us, by continual preaching and writing against us, and seeking to bear out all with the cloak ●f the gospel, and to hide the iniquities under a veil of professing truths fundamental, they will hardly be a known of the manifold evils and gross corruptions, that prevayl in their assemblies. Therefore also are we forced to produce their own writers for to witness with us; who both heretofore and to this day, complain of the sins that reign among them And worthy it is to be observed how the ministers of England are come to contradict and depart from their own grounds, for to mainteyn their corrupt estate. For now they 

See after in this book p 122.  
anno 1562   utterly deny the visible church to be a company of faithful people that truly worship Christ and readily obey him; co●tra●y both to all the scriptures and to their own Articles d of religion. A●d Mr Bernarde in the name of all the divines in their church, yea (if we ●ay bele●ue him) of all the reformed Churches in Christendom, 
e In the 123 pag of his book.  telleth us with a marginal note also to have it well observed, that the true word of God preached. and true sacraments of Christ administered, are infallible toke●s of a true church. I say not (saith he) the word truly preached, nor the sacraments rightly administered: but thus; the true word preached, the true sacr●m●n●● administered. Now lay these things together and see what a holy communion they will make the church of God to be: namely, if not a ro●t of miscreants, yet at least a mesceline multitude of believers and infidel's, holy and profane. Among whom it the true word be preached, though never so curruptly falsely perversely, by any Popeling, Baalist. or Balaamite; if the true sacraments be administered, though never so superstitiausly profanely and disorderly, to the open wicked etc. yet there must needs be a true church. Such heavenly doctrine, or rather such hellish error is now taught by the transformed ministers, for to make men keep communion with Belial.  
Against these and other like impostures, have I endeavoured to bring out the truth, (though naked and destitute of all worldly ornaments,; and by it to manifest the present aberations of my country from the primitive faith of Christ; I have also produced their own testimonies against them, that the Saints on eart may say, 
a Deut, 3●. 31,  their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies being judges. And if they will yet resist, the world may see, they are condemned by themselves, But my heart's desire and prayer for my brethren is, that they may be saved; turning from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheretance among them which are sanctified by faith in Christ.  
H●n●y Ainsworth,   

A Direction to some principal things contained in this book.  

Administration of the Ministers of Engl, scanned; with the effects pag, 14. etc. 58. etc. 60. etc. 62. etc. 109. etc. 110. etc.  
Antichrists kingdom not overthrown by the ministers of Engl. pag. 61. etc.  
Begetting of faith, how it is pag. 5, 6: It is no essential note of a true church, p, 6. It should be before the planting of a church p. 40, 41 146.  
Building of the church, and how it is performed in England p. 33 34: &c  
Christ, not the head, Mediator, Prophet, Priest, or King, of the church of England p, 74. etc. not the spouse of the same, pag, 42. &c  
Compulsion to the faith and church, used in Engl. but unwarrantable. pag 120.78.131. & c p 133,  
Constitution of a church. pag, 98.99.  
K. Edward's reformation of religion, and how it was accepted. pag. 120.133  
Foundation Christ; and Fundamental truth. pretended and discused, pag 34.123, etc. 126.117. &c  
Gifts, prove not a true ministry. pag, 13: etc.  
Matter of the church of Engl. pag, 106.  
Ministry of the church of Engl. pag, 108 etc.  
A Papist argument against the church of Engl. pag. 111.  
Pattern of planting a church. pag. 44.  
Popular▪ government, objected and answered. pag. 101, etc.  
Pope's authors of many ordinances now in Engl pag. 137, etc.  
Positions concerneng a true church. pag. 65 etc.  
Profession in Engl. contrary to their estate and practice. pag, 124, &c  
Reformation by the Kings of judah. p. 134. &c  
Reform churches, alleged for approbation of the church of Engl. and answered, pag. 9, 10.22 etc. 48, 51, ●2, etc. 128, 129.  
Repentance not truly preached or practised in the church of Engl. pag. 45. etc. 56. etc.  
Separation proved necessary: p, 5, 22, granted by our adversaries, pag. 1:  
Synns suffered, how they defile the church. pag. 101. etc.  
Spirits of the Prophet's subject to the Prophets scanned pag. 28.29.  
Testimonies of the ministers of Engl. against the estate of that church, concerning 

The people pag. 2.107.108.59, 60, 62.122.125, 126.127.  
The ministry and ministers pag. 3.11.112.81, 114.119, 136, 142, 143.  
The worship, pag, 3,  
The church governors. pag, 4,    
Worship of God in the church of England, polluted pleaded for & against, pag. 137. &c,    

CONSIDERATIONS, Touching the points in difference, between the godly 〈…〉 people of the Church of England; and the seduced brethren, of the separation.  
A Separation we deny not, from the corruptions of the Church wherein we live; 1 in judgement, 2 profession, 3 practice: 1 of teaching eu●ry part of truth and righteousness; 2 of performing the things we teach; 3 of reproving every part of sin and error; 4 and abstaining from all corruptions of life and doctrine: for which particulars, so many of both parts have suffered and do suffer so many things. But the difference is, we suffer for separating in the Church: you, out of the Church. And this to be true, you know: unless you will cavil, against your own conscience and knowledge.  

Answer.  
WHO so examineth these your Considerations, and weigheth them in the balance of equity: may find them wanting in many points, touching the differences between your Church, and us that separate from the same; and insufficient in the points that are handled to persuade any wise hart to return unto you. You ouerpasse 1 the hierarchy of your spiritual Lords the prelate's with their under officers which reign over you; 1 and the form of God's worship by your liturgy or service book set up and used in all your parishes. These are two main exceptions that we make against you, though you dissemble them in this your writing, and insist upon other two, 1 the people, and 2 inferior ministry (as I conceive you;) as if these only were the points of difference between us and you. Which whether you have done of ignorance, or of fraud rather, to deceive your reader; I leave it upon your conscience to consider of.  
Again, the two things that you take upon you to handle, you for down in these terms, the godly Ministers and people of the Church of England; whereas our separation is from your Church in general. wherein many ungodly ministers and people are to be found, standing in commixture, or confusion rather, as one body with those which are esteemed more godly and religeous: and therefore you deal not sincerely, to make our separation to seem but from apart and those the godly.  
Again, whereas there is a schism in your Church, by two contrary factions at war with yourselves, Conformitans and Puritans, (as you style one another.) you deal not plainly, to tell us whither party you mean to defend, but lead your reader into clouds and m●st, speaking of godly mi●isters and people; not naming who or where they are. That tho●gh one may guess whom you mean, yet you write so generally & covertly that if danger or in convenience come by any thing you ha●e said, yo● may s●if● it of to either side for your best advantage.  
A 〈◊〉 you deny not from the corruptions of the Ch●rch wherein 〈◊〉 live; yet 〈…〉 not what those corruptions are, which behoved you to ha●e done, if you woul● have effected o●r ret●rne unto you. For we are verily persuaded, that they are nothing b●t your corru●t●ons 〈◊〉 we have separated fro●; and therefore cannot rejoin ourselves unto you till they be removed. And seeing you may mind some things to be corru●tions in your Ch●rch, and we othersome: it cannot be we should well accord, till particulars be related; which therefore (if you write again,) we pray you in your next to set down  
Yet for the present, it is well that the truth hath wrung out such a testimony from your own mouth and pen; whiles you grant and deny not such a separation in general, as you mention: to the branches whereof if you will stand, and abide also by wh●ch you have heretofore wr●tten; I doubt not but the discreet reader will see, your bat ell is ●ot so much against us as against yourselves; & the sword which you have dra● 〈◊〉 slay such as be upright of way, doth enter into the very hart of your own Church; & the bows which you have bend at us, are broken.  
For ●e forsake your Church for this main corruption, that all, sorts of profane and wicked men have been and are, both they and their seed, received into and nourished with●n the b●some of your Church contrary to the first covenant of our redemption, wherein God with his own mouth proclaimed & perpetvall enmity and war against the Serpent and his seed, which the women and her seed should wage; though with the bruising of the heel thereof. Gen. 3. Contrary also to the example of all God's Churches since the world began, who always were separated from the ungodly, as the scriptures show.  
Now that this is a corruption a●ong you, yourselves have taught saying and complaining that in the Church 
a Sermon on Rom. 12.6. pag 65 66.  are swarms of Atheists, jdolaters, Papists erroneus and heretical sectaries, witch's, charmers, sorcerers, murderers, thieves, adulterers, liars, &c Also that 
b Plain deccla of eccles desc, pag, 72.  among you the holy Saccraments are communicated with the Papists, the holy mistresses of God profaned, the Gentiles enter into the Temple of God, the holy things are indifferently communicated with clean and unclean, circumcised and uncircumcised. Again that 
c Di●l of the strife of your▪ Church page. 99  there be th●wsands which be men and women grown, which if a man ask them how th●y ●halbe saved they cannot tell. As for wickedness in pride envy ha●red and all sins that can be named almost. it death overflow; and yet you are not ashamed to say are th●y not Christians? This Testimony being tr●e, I hope yourselves now willbe ashamed to plead that such a people are Chritians & to be communicated w●th; or deny that we may separate from them in th●ngs concerning God.  
An other weighty cause of our separation is, that you have a popish ministry over this profane multitude; touching which, yourselves also have thus written; 
a 1 adm●●o the Par. in the preface.  either we ●vst have a right ministry of God, and a right government of the Church according to the scriptures set up, both which we lack; or else there can be no right religion etc. Now for the present ministry that is among you, as Parsons, Vicars. parish priests, Stipendaries, with the rest, you said, 
b in the same admonition.  that c●me from the pope, as out of the Trojan horses belly, to the destr●ction of God's kingdom.  
An other cause why we refuse communion with you, is for that you serve God not as himself commandeth, but after your own devising, or by imitation rather of the Roman Antichrist: wh●ch yourselves have proclaimed though we should hold our peace; for of your service book you say, it was 
c 1 admon. pag. 16.  culled and picked out of the Popish dunhil the portuis and mass wreckful of all abominations: & that in the order of your service, 
d ibid. 14.  there i●●o edification but confusion. Now this seemeth unto us no small corruption, that you should offer unto God that filth which you have picked out of the Pope's dunghill. May we not say unto you, with the prophet, 
e Mal. 1 8  Off●r such things unto your Prince; will he be content with you, or except your person, saith the Lord of hosts? You know that Christ hath said 
f Psa 16.4.  their, offerings of blood I will not offer; and yet will you take your drink offerings out of the 
g Reu 17. ●  great where's cup, which the holy Ghost saith is 
h verse. 4.  full of abominations, and of the filthiness of her fernication? What mor● loathsome thing could you have fou●d under the sun?  
Again we have forsaken your Church because the ecclesiastical government and governors, the Lords spiritual, are not according to the ordinance of that Lord who is 
i 2 Cor. 3.17  the Spirit, but after the institution of his enemy Antichrist. And that this is a fowl corruption, we have also learned from yourselves, which say, 
k 1. admon. page. 15.  The government now used by Archbishops and Rps. &c, is both Antichristian and devilish. That it 
l Demonst. in the pref.  is that which giveth leave to a man, to be any thing saving, a sound Christian. Item that 
m Table of Artic, by diuin. Reader in Cam.  that Ugly and ill-favoured hierarchy, or Church princeliness, which instituted at the first by antichrists device did afterward villy serve the Pope of Rome to accomplish the mystery of iniquity, and to destroy the Church of Christ and doth yet still at this day serve him: must be abolished, that no remnants, ne yet any show thereof remain, if so be we will have Christ to reign over us. Item that 
n ibedem,  that profane jurisdiction of Lordly Lord Archbishobs, Bps, Archdeacon's, Chansellors, officials &c. as contrary to God's government, and wholly vnderpropt by the canon & Popish law, and with all joined with hypocrisy vainglory lordliness and tyranny. even for these respects, (if there were no moe,) are to be utterly rooted out of the Church; except possibly we mean by reconciliation to make Christ and Antichrist friends: Thus have we been taught by yourselves, what corruptions there are in the Church, even so many and so great, that you complained thus, 
o 1. admon. page. 2.  as our lacks are, there can be no right religeon: and now you have added unto all the former to teach us a separation from your corruptions and this not only in 1 judgement, or 2 profession, but also in 3 practice and that we should not only reprove (as you heretofore have done.) every part of sin and error, but abstain also from a●l corruptions of life and doctrine. And now we would pray you tell us, seeing corruption hath so seized upon, and possessed (by your own confession (both Priest and people, both worship, and ecclesiastical government; that as your lacks are, there can be no right religion: and seeing from all corruption we mus● separate: What then remains for us to communicate with you in? For take away these corruptions out of your church, and you shall se● an utter dissolution and abolishing of the same. Though now it spread itself like agreene bay tree: yet will it p●●se away and be gone, and though one seek●●t, it cannot be found.  
And is it not strange, that when yourselves have taught us how esteem of your people, ministry, divine service and church government; how also to walk and carry ourselves, where such corrupt●ons are, and we have but departed from these corruptions, (for, any truth that is among you, we have not forsaken:) that yet you will say we are seduced? Are not you then the seducers? We do but practise that which you have taught us, If you would have us to return unto you, first justify by the word of God, that people, ministry, and worship, that you have condemned: refute your own writings; and build again the things which you have destroyed. So when you have made yourselves trespassers, if we be not able by God's word to prove that the things we refreyn from, are as bad as you have written; we will, by his grace, 
Exo. 14.5.9.  come again unto you. Till then, let the discreet reader m●nde, whither you deal not with us as did the horsemen of Egypt with the Israelites; that after you hau● given us leave to depart, you thus pursue us with your writings, to bring us back again to our ancient bondage. Again, whether you that pretend a separating in the church, & condemn our separating out of it though your Church be so throughly corrupt, as before is showed and now call us seduced: deserve not rather to be called yourselves The seducing brethren of the separation. But let us hear what it is you now say for yourselves.   

On our part, consider,  
1. THis separation that we make, is grounded.  
1. On God's commandments, Matt. 15.14. Rom. 16.17. Eph. 5.7.11. 2. Thes. 3. ●. 14.15. Tim 6.5. Tit. 3.10. 1. Pet 4.4.  
2. On the examples of all the prophets, Apostles, & Christ himself who separated in the Church & not out of th' Ch●. albeit in most corrupt estate, & yet communicated in th●t which was good; reproving refusing & suffering for abst●yning from evil. Luk. 2. 2●. 2 24 & 22.7.8.9. Mat. 22 3. &., 20, & 6, 1 2 5.16 & 11.16.17 18.9.20. &. 12 31.34 39 & 23 totum. And (note) those Churches were Antanosaicall as you say ours are Antichristian: yet for as much 〈…〉 th● 〈◊〉 Christ, as ●ur Church doth at least, Luk 1, 9 10, job. 1 2●●1. & 7 23.17 31 4● 42. & 10, 24. Rom. 3 2.3. & 9.4. w●th Gen 49.10 A.t. 2 39 th●y separated not from them.   

Answer.  
IF by the Commandments of God, by the examples of Christ, his 〈◊〉 and Apostles, we may & m●st separate from all corruptions main te●●ed in a tr●e Church: then ought we much more to separate from the● being maintained in a false; vnle●se; a false Church have more priv●lige, t●en ● cr●e And we consider that our separation is from the corr●●ptiō: of ● false Church;  
2. The scriptures also are plain, that we must separate and forsake all false Churches, as well as corru●tions in a true, 2. Cor. 6 17. Come out from among them, and separate your s●lues saith the Lord, and touch no unclean th●ng, and I will receive you. Revelation. 18 4 Go out of her my people, that ye receive not of her plagues. Hosea. 4.15. Come not ye unto Gilgal, neither give up to Beth●ven; and many the like How rightly then do you allege scriptures, as if they taught us separation in a Church only, and not out of it also; when it is false, and Idolatrous?  
3. Your selves are a precedent to us of like practice, in separating not in but out of the Church of Rome: as yo● have dealt with the mother, so do we with the daughter; because like mother like daughter, according to the proverb; Eze. 16.44.  
4. You allege th● examples of all the prophet's; yet show you not any that ●al●ed by your r●le, to separate in the Church and not out of it. We are sure they called the people out of the Church of Israel when it was idolatrous, a●d forbade them to come at their assemblies. Hos, 2.2.3.4. & 4 15.17 Amos. 5.5. And how they co●ld themselves join with that Church from which they separated others is strange unto us; especially considering that Israel in that estate, is noted by the prophet Azariah to be without the true God, without P●●ist to teach, ●nd wiht●ut law; 1, Chro. 15.3 and may we think, he separated not from that Church; The Israelites th●n, sacrificed to Devil's, not to G●●, Deut. 3● 17. Chron. 11.15 and will yo● s●y the prophets separated not from them?  
5. The like I Answer to the examples of Christ and his Apostles; who as t●ey abstained from corruptious in the jewish Church; so were they q●●re sep●r●te● from all false Churches as the Sam●ritans and other like Mat 10 5. joh. 4.22. Act. 2.40. & 199 so the●r examples also, do approve our practice.  
6. W●ere as you would have noted that those Churches (which Christ and h●s Apostles communicated with) were Antianosaicall as yours we ●ay ar● 〈◊〉: I 〈◊〉 t●e compar●son, For ● the jewish Church consisted it all, 〈…〉 the same, Levit, 20, 21.16.) of a people separated not only from heathens, but also from f●lse professors, heretics, and idolaters; and were children of the prophets a●d covenant of God; john. 4.9 Act 3.25. But your Church c●ns●steth ●f an unseparated people, children of Idolatrous Priests, & strangers from the covenant of God.  
2. The jews then, had their sacrifices, services and solemn feasts, according to Moses Law; Mat 8.4. Mar, 14.12. Luk 9 ●O. & 2.21, 24 and Chr●st himself justified the●r worship joh. 4.22. but your service, worship, and festivals, are after Antichrists law, translated out of his mass-book.  
3. The●r Priests were according to Moses institution, of Aaron's line Luk, 1, 5. with 1 Chro. 2.1, 10 their Scribes and Pharisees, sat in Moses cha●re; Mat 23.2, your Priests after the Pope's institution your prelate's fit in Antichrist chair. So they were not so much against Moses; as you are against Christ: and that your Church retaineth not the foundation Christ, shall through his grace anon be proved.   

The 2. Consideration.  
2. OUR Church hath the essential notes of a true church, able to beget a true saving faith, to work the fruits of the spirit, to make a man a true and perfect Christian, and last of all to save him. To the which also Christ hath tied his gracious promise and blessing to the end of the world Rome, 10, 13, 17, Mat, 28 19.20. Act, 20.32. 2 Tim. 3.15.16. 1. Tim. 4.16 jam. 1.21. Isa 55, 11.   

Answer.  
THese notes which you propound, 1 are not the essential notes of a true Church: a neither (if they were,) are they ordinariely found in your Church  
1. These are not essential notes, because; 1 One man may have all this you speak of; and no one man, is or can be a Church, for that consisteth of a multitude or number of persons it is an assembly or convocation; jointly together it is a body, and every one severally is but a member. 1. Cor 12, 20.27, That one man may have all your essential notes, may appear in Paul's example, who was able to beget a true saving faith, to work the fruits of the spirit, and so the rest. 1. Cor. 4 ●5. Gal. 3, 2 5.  
2. An Angel may have all the notes you mention; and no Angel is a Church. For example, the Angel Gabriel, who was sent to give Daniel knowledge and understanding, and preached liuly of Christ's death, & the benefits thereof. Dan. 9.21.22, &c  
3. A wicked man may do all that you speak of; but no wicked man is a true church. judas sent forth with the other Apostles to preach and work miracles, might bring others to salvation by his doctrine, though h●mselfe were a reprobate Mat. 10.5, 6. &c,  
4. A true Church is the spouse & house of Christ, & bringeth him forth a spiritual seed. But, as God gave the blessing of multiplying children, only 
a Gen 1 & 2  to lawful married estate, yet often it cometh to pass, through h●s almighty power and goodness that harlots also are partakers of this blessing: and do bring forth children: so the blessing of spiritual propagation, is peculiar to the true Church; yet God, which brought light out of darkness, causeth some children to be borne and brought up unto him in false Churches For example; the Church of Rome, (the mother 
b Reu 17. ●  of whordoms and abominations of the earth) hath doubtless, since she was wedded to Antichrist, borne and brought up, by the general true grounds of Chrstian rel●geon taught in her, many children of God, and heirs of salvation, This I suppose yourselves will not deny, neither yet w●ll you say, that Rome is Christ true Church. Your reason then is, as if Thamer should have pleaded, I am able to bear children, to nurse and br●ng them up to man's estate, etc. therefore I am my Father Iudah● true and lawful wife, Gen. 38, 15.18. etc.  
2. Now if these were essential notes, which you have set down: yet help they you nothing, for I deny that they are ordinarily found in your Ch●rch. For, though I doubt not but the doctrine of your Church hath saved many: yet that is God's extraordinary blessing, not the ordinary effects of your Church. This is the thin● you should have proved, by comparing your Church and ministry with the Laws and promises in God's word: which because you have not done, but only quoted some scriptures generally; which men of all religions may do likeweise;) I will by one or two of the scriptures that yourself here ci●e, show how unlike you are to a true Church and Ministry.  
In Rom. 10.3.17. th' Apostle treateth of two things, 1 of calling on the name of the Lord, and 2 of faith, by hearing his word.  
1. Whosoever call th' upon the name of the Lord shallbe saved. This we are to understand according to David's exposition, whosoever calleth upon him in truth. Psa. 145 18. for God is a spirit, and must be worshipped in spirit and tr●th, joh. 4.24. but the worship and calling upon God which your Church useth, in reading the prayers litany collects, and other like things of your Liturgy, translated out of AntiChr●st mass-book, is carnal false Idolatrous; for such a manner of divine service you have no commandment or warrant in the scriptures. And this popish worship, begetteth not, but destroyeth faith and the true caling on God● name, and deceiveth men's souls; for in vain they worship me (saith Christ,) teaching f●r doctrine the precepts of men; Mat. 15.9, and, they that wait vp●n lying vanities, forsake their own mercy. jonah, 1, 8  
2. For the other point, Fa●th is by bearing (or by 
c one & th● same word is by figure of speech. 〈◊〉 for hearing & reporting. Rome 10.  report) saith the Apostle; and proveth it by Isa. 53.1. Lord who hath believed our be●ring; that is, our report, Now no man can truly and faithfully report ●nlesse God hath first spoken unto ●●m; ne●ther can a●y man fruitfully hear other report or doctrine then the Lords; and so hearing is by the word of God, i● the mouths of such as are sent, as he showeth in the 15 verse. But you● Ministers are not truly and lawfully sent, (for they cannot show either calling, ordination, or office, according to Chr●sts Testament;) therefore they cannot truly and lawfully preach his word and consequently, cannot beget (ordinarily) a true saving faith.  
The next scripture also Mat, 28 19, 20, plainly condemneth the state of your Church and ministry: for,  
1. There, is a lawful calling, authorising and sending; of minister● from him that hath all power in heaven and in earth, saying Go therefore and teach: but such a sending your ministers have not; for (as yourselves have 
a 2 admon. to the Parl, f. 16.  said,) they enter not in by Chrict but by a Popish and unlawful v●cation.  
2. There, is a commandment to teach (or make disciples,) before they be received into th' Church by baptism, for o● them that are taught, such only as gladly receive and believe the word, are to be baptised and admitted into the Church. as the practice of th' Apostle showeth, Act. ●, 40 41. but your Church was not thu● gathered or planted by th' preaching of the Gospel: but by the commandment of the Magistrate: neither we● only the willing believers received, and others refused; but the whole profane multitudes were admitted, or rather compelled into your church where they and their seed are still ret●yned,  
3. There, God's Ministers are willed to teach Christians so baptised to observe all things whatsoever Christ commanded his Apostles verse. 20, & so they have his gracious promise and blessing to the end of the world: but in your church, many things are observed which Christ never commanded. Yea the Ministry and government apppointed in his Testament, are held and confirmed by practice among you, not to be perpetual, not necessary, nor fitting for your state: but an other pompous ministry, and Lordly ecclesiastical government; after the manner of the court of Rome. And as for power and liberty to observe Christ commandments, that is far from your people, which all are in bondage to the Bishops and their courts; having not chr●stian freedom to censure sin or sinners or practise the ordinances of the Gospel, as the Apostles did unless Princes and Parliaments will permit or command them.  
The like may be said, and returned upon you, from the other scriptures by you alleged; all which do● concern the true church and ministry, as yourselves will not deny: and so will help you nothing until you prove your church and ministry such, Boast not therefore of a true saving faith and fruits of the spirit; when such bitter fruits and works of the flesh, do reign among you: for faith without works 〈◊〉 d●ad. jam. 2.26.  
Now then, if you will give us leave to consider the state of your Church aright, we would mind it thus. your Church hath the essential notes of a false Church. namely a confuse profane worldly people, with an Antichristian Prelacy, and priesthood over them; able to beget ordinarily, but a vain and dead faith, through want of the true ministry of the word in Christ's ordinance, and by means of the false worship and false doct●nes that are in your Church; to work the fruits of the flesh, as the idolatries and other sinful actions abounding in your Church do show; to make a man a very Antichristian, by resisting persecuting and blaspheming, the true way of Christ and practice of his Gospel; (which alas, too many do,) and last of all to destroy him. if he repent not of his sinne●●nd find mercy with the Lord. which we desire you all may find, for the salvation of your souls.   

The 3. Consideration.  
Our Church and ministry, are approved of and rejoiced for, of all the pure reformed Churches in the world. Our confession by them placed in the Harmony of Confessions; gi●ing us the right hand of fellowship: as also by all the godly learned, and most sound and excellent fathers & lights of the church, that ever lived in or meddle with our church; Bucer Martyr, Fagius, Alasio, Knox, who lived ●n our church; Calvin, Beza, Bullinger, Gualt●r, ●yml●r, Zanchius, junius, Rolocus etc. with others very many, who have given their testimony and approbation to our church and ministry. Wherein if our errors were fundamental, damnable and Antichristian, (as you term them,) these churches and persons had undoubtedly the spirit of discerning. and could not be deceived all at once. 1. Cor. 11, 16. & 14.33. & ●. 15. &. 10.15 & 14.32, 37, 2. Thes. 1.4.   

Answer.  
THough you come against us with horsemen and charrets, yet we 
a Psa. 20.7  will remember the name of the Lord our God; by whose word alone all doctrines must be tried all persons must ●udge and be judged. It is incident to the best men and purest churches, to err and be deceived wherefore their sentences and approbations, must be examined by God's word. If you say otherweise you teach corrupt and popish doctrine. With such weapons as these, have the Papists long fought against you, and where you can bring one, they can bring many to witness for them and their Romish superstitions. 
b Bellarmin de notu eccls  Antiquity, universality, and s●ch l●ke popular reasons. they seek to uphold their kingdom withal:  
2. The word of God condemning your church and ministry, (as we have often proved; and our proofs lie upon you yet unanswered;) though all churches in the world, should approve of you, your case were ●o whit the better; for all men are vanity. 
Psa. 62.9.   
3. The jews objected as weighty a● argument aga●●●t C●ri●t himself, whe● they said, d●th any of the rulers or of the Pharisees 〈◊〉 in him, but this people which know not the Law, are ●ursed. I●h 7, 1●. 19.  
4. If the reformed Church's approve so well of you● Church and ministry, they are n●● only against us but against themselves: for their own Church's consist of ● separated and voluntary people, whereas yours are confused and compelled; they condemn and have re●e●ted the hierarchy and ministry of Archbishop's, Lord bishops' etc. Priest's, Parson's, Vicars etc. which are yet among you and ha●e amon● them an●ther ministry. Now how they can approve of two sorts of Churches & monasteries, so contrary one to another, let them look to ●t.  
5. It seemeth to me, you are very lavish in your praise, which now vaunt so of the approbation and rejoicing of all the ●ure reform Churches in the world: whereas heretofore you complained that you had 
a 1 Admon ●o the Parl.  all the b●st reform Church's through●ut Ch●istendom against you. Again the Harmony that you mention, was set forth but by the French and Belgic churches; the things that they approve among you, are certain general heads of religeon which a B●shop wrote in an Apology of your Church: most of all which heads, we ourselves also approve and rejoice for But the controversies between you and us, touching the gathering and constituting of a Church; the manner of divine service; the form of Church government, and the like; are either not at all, or in very general terms set down in that bo●ke: and so very slenderly, if ought at all, by them approved or rejoiced for. To give an instance or two; in the tenth section of that Harmony, treating of the Ch●rch, your English confession is so shor● and in general words, I doubt not b●t the Pope himself will subscribe unto it, letting him have his own interpretation. In the 15 section of Ecclesiastical meetings; you speak of prayer, in the tongue which all your people understand. Now because the Reformed churches approve of thi●, we must take it belike, that they approve of your Liturgy and service book also, and all your public worship, though it be not set down f●r any to judge of. In the 16. section, of Holy day's, fasts etc. there yo● wri●e against purgatory; which being put into the Harmony, i● enough (as seemeth) to prove that other church's approve of all your Pope holy-days and festivals. The l●ke may be minded for other points, as in the 17. section for ceremonies & things indifferent; which being approved of and rejoiced for by all the Reformed churches in the world; the Prelate's w●l have a shrewd hand against you that are called Puritans, for standing so much against the ceremonies of your Church, as you do· And for your ministry, I marvel you say not that, it is approved of and rejoiced for of the Pope also, for in the 11. section of that Harmony, you believe these orders and degrees of ministers in the Church, 1 Deacons. 2 Priests, and 3 Bishops; which orders, wehther the Reformed Churches approve of or no, I am sure the Counsel of Trent doth, and hath decreed, If any shall say, that in the Catholic Church there is not a hierarchy instituted by divine ordination, which consisteth of Bishops. and Priests and 
a Deccons by interpretation are ministers 1 〈◊〉 3.5.  ministers, let him be ●ccurs●d. Concil. Trident. Sess 23. Can. 6. But now seeing not only the Fathers of the Counsel of Trent, but all reformed Churches in the world, (as you said, do approve of and rejoice for this your ministry; I hope the Bishops and hierarchy of your Church shall no more be preached & written against by your inferior Priests, (as many a day they have been,) as being Antichristian.  
Thus may you see what a weak foundation, you bring for your church and ministry; and if we lifted to fight against you with your own weapons; we could allege many things from the persons whom you cite; against your present church and ministry: but the word of God yieldeth us armour enough for this battle against you, as in due t●me through his grace shall be seen.  
6. In the mean while, it shall not be amiss to put the reader in mind, how yourselves heretofore have judged and written of your ministry, which you say it is approved of and rejoiced for, of all the pure reformed churches in the world. your ministers being (as before is noted, Deacons, Priests and Bishops; Of the Deacenship you have written, that 
b Defennc of eclesiastical disci, p. 102.  it is a mere humane institution, a degree to the Priesthood, and nothing like to the ordinance of God. Of Priests etc. that 
c 1 admo to the Parlia.  they come from the Pope. as out of the Trojan horses belly to the destruction of God's kingdom. Of the Bishops etc. that 
d defence of godly minis: against bridges. p. 12 3.  you account them no natural members of the body of Christ church becavase they are of humane addition, not borne with her, nor grown up with her from the cradle, Again 
e Sermon. on Rom. 12 p 34.  that they be rather members of the strumpet of Rome, then of the spouse of the Lamb etc. And have not you & the reformed Churches great cause now to rejoice for this ministry.  
7. Moreover consider you also, how we may allege, that now 10. years sithence, we have published our Confession of faith, and causes of our separation from your Church and ministry, to the learned Universities of the Reformed churches; with desire if in our faith or practice we erred, that they would show it us: but to this day, we know not any that have undertaken so to do: wherefore we also may suppose by their silence, that they approve our case or at least suspend their judgements and condemn, us not.  
8. Finally, it is written in one of the scriptures that you quote, the spiritual man judgeth all things, but he himself is judged of no man; 1 Cor. ●, 15. Now every true Christian is a spiritual man Gal. 6. 1. 1 Pet 2.5. therefore he may judge and discern by God's word and spirit, faith from here sie, and the true church from the false; he may see with his eyes & live by his own faith, and not depend upon other men, to live & walk in sin till other churches condemn it. Let every man therefore retain his liberty, and take heed how he judgeth.  
4. THe only wicked Pa●ists, Atheist, and most ungodly ones: are adversaries to our godly ministers and people. The godly in all places and times among us, by them alone an● ordinarily ha●e been converted unto Christ, and by them approved, reverenced, and obeyed always in the Lord.   

Answer.  
1. IF the only wicked be adversaries, to your Godly ministers and people; it pertaineth not to us, who hate none of you, b●t wish well and pray for you all; even for our persecutors we are adversaries only to the sins, & corruption that are among you; & whiles we reprove you for ●inne, you should ●ud●e that we love, and hate you not, as the 
a Leu. 19, 17.  law te●cheth. We say therefore with the Apostle; are we become your enemies because we ●ell ●ou the truth? Gal. 4 16.  
2, The Atheists and wicked one● that so hate your godly ministers and people; are the● not also members of your own Church? So then your church is divided against itself, and you are advers one to another. And why tell you us of this, as a consideration to reduce us to your church, when we because such Atheists & wicked are (contrary to Gods will) suffered among you, do separate from your Church?  
3. Again, who be those godly ministers and people you mean? If such as are called Puritans; they have (I suppose) more adversaries the● friends in your church; yea the public state, alwes and canons of your church are against them, and all that know the truth of God, and the●r estate aright, have just cause to blame them for the●r long halting and dissembling. If the Prelates be those godly minister's, they have in regard of their unlawful places and proceedings; many good people for their adversaries, both within and without the land, and yourselves also which suffer for separation in your church. By neither of these two contrary factions among you, are men ordinarily converted unto Christ, both sorts setting yourselves against the true way of Chr●st for gathering and government of the Church, and worship of God; and so do hinder men's salvation, and deserve to be not approved, but reproved in the name of the Lord.   

The 5. Consideration.  
5. GOD hath given witney for the truth of our ministry, by the undoubted testimony of his gracious presence and approbation of the same; by his gifts of 1. sanctification. 2 knowledge. 3 spirit of discerning. 4. of utterance. 5 of power and authority in teaching, 6 effectual and ordinary ●alling and begetting to the faith of God, and bringing them from darkness to light, from the old man to the n●w, from the fl●sh unto the spirit; which ministry of ours; begat you also, if ever you were tru●y begotten in the spirit, & by God's mercy hath begotten me, & other h●s unworthy servants.   

Answer  
1. THe Papists will say as much as all this and more too, (if words will ser●e● for the ministry of their church; they boast of the●r Friars, & jesuits holiness, knowledge, utterance & authority in teaching and their marvellous effects in converting to Christianity, the Indians & other heathens all over the world Yea what religeon, glorieth not in t●e sanctity, gifts and effects of their ministry? But God's word must try all.  
2. The ministry of ●our Church being Archbishops, L. Bishops, Deans, Archdeacon's, &c Priests, and Deacons, as is to be seen in the books statutes, and canons of your church: you br●ng not here any one word of God, or text of scriptures (which are his testimonies,) to witness for the truth of your ministry: and this is indeed worthy to be considered of us & of all that shall read your Considerations  
3. Your own brethren heretofore confessed and complained to the Parliament, that you 
a 1 admo 2.3.4.  lack in England a right ministry of God; that the ministers are neither proved, elected, called, nor ordained, according to God's word. This testimony being true, how then doth God give witness for the truth of your ministry.  
4. The witness that you bring, if they be examined, will say little are nothing to this purpose. For,  
1. The gift of santification, is a common note of Christianity, 1. Thes. 4.3. 1 Pet. 2.9. and therefore no special note of a ministry. This was Korahs' argument when he would have usurped the Priesthood. All the congregation is holy every one of them: why may they not therefore be Priest's? Num. 16.3.10. But what saith the scripture? No man taketh th●● honour to himself but he that is called of God, as Aaron was. Heb. 5.4.  
2.3. The second and third 2 knowledge, 3 of the spirit of discerning, are also general for the whole church, and not special for the ministry; Rom. 15.14. Phil. 1.10. Yea some in the flock, may have a greater measure both of sanctification and of knowledge; then the Pastor or teacher or any Officer  
It cannot be denied but Barsabas had knowledge as well as Mathias; yet was he not therefore an Apostle, Act. 1.23.26. and they whose genealogies could not be found, had knowledge as well as the other Priest's yet were they not therefore kept in the Priesthood, Ezra 2.62. Boast not you therefore of your knowledge, but show us your genealogies in the scriptures There be a great many in your ministry called dumb Priest's wh●ch are but bare readers, by whose means many people perish for want of knowledge: these testimonies will be dumb for them; yet your ●●urch proclaimeth them to, be ●rue ministers.  
Your best minister●, of whose knowledge you boast, show themselu●● ignorant; (or worse,) in the 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 ●lanting of a church wh●les; they will have it (as their ●ractise proveth) with commixture of all form without separation: wherea● they cannot show any true church since the beginning of the world, but was of a separated people. Gen. 61.2. & 12 1. L●v, 20.23.24. Ezr. 6 21. Act. 2, 40.41. &. 19: 9 etc.  
4. 5. The fourth and fifth, 4. utterance, with 5 power & authority in teaching, are needful in such as are ministers, but no necessary proof of a true ministry. For had not the false Apostles and Prophets. utterance and power; that preached w●th eloquence and wisdom of words disgracing the Apostles and Prophets of the Lord? 2 Cor. 10.10. &. 11.13.15. 1. Kin. 22. ●4. jer. 23.31. &. 28.1.2.10, 11. 2 Tim. 3.8.  
Your ministers, many preach not at all many preach to maintain the pompous prelacy, & laudable ceremonies of your Church: and they that pr●ach best, show little power or authority For how many years have they been preaching for Discipline, and against some corruption of your church? yet nothing prevailed, but are further now at last than they were at the first. Who knoweth not that the prelate's have closed up the mouths of many Ministers, that the prophecy of Esaias is verified upon them; Isa. 56.10. and yet you boast of the●r utterance & authority in teaching.  
But lamentable ministers are they ●ll; and the best of them may be seen to be but briers; and to have betrayed the authority of Christ; For when they took the Order of Priesthood as they call it, they solemnly promised even before the Lord, and by his help, that 
a form & manner of consecrating Bishops, priests and Deacons.  they would give their faithful diligence always so to minister the doctrine and sacraments and the discipline of Christ as the Lord hath commanded, & as this realm hath received the same. according to the commandments of God so that they might teach the people committed to their care and charge w●th all diligence to keep & obseru● the same. They promised also, 
b ibidem,  reverently to obey their ordinary & other chief ministers is to whom the government & charge is committed ou●r them, following with a glad mind and will their godly admonition, and submitting thēselu●● to their godly judgement. Yet your forward preachers (as they are esteemed,) do not minister the doctrine sacraments and discipline of Christ as th● Lord hath commanded; but sue and wait for authority from the Magistrate, to have that wh●ch they count the true discipline of Christ erected in the●r parishes; which because the civil Magistrate doth not they practise not the discipline, nor teach their people to keep and observe the same yea they blame us for practising Christ's laws without the Magistrates leave, as if Christ were not head of the church, & Prince of all the Kings of the earth. Again they administer not their doctrine sacraments and discipline, as this realm hath received, neither reverently obey their Ordinaries, but resist, preach and write against the Bishops, their canons, rites and ceremonies. as much as they dare Thus halt they between two opinions, and practise neither the discipline of Chr●st nor of the prelate's while; yet they would seem to practice both: being in this point like to the Sa●aritans, which whiles they would both 
a 2 Kin. 1● 33.41.  fear the Lord and serve the●r images also, they 
b ver. 34.  neither feared God, nor did after their ordinances, as the scriptures saith. What then may we esteem of your ministers pour and authority in teaching  
A●aine, consider you if some Absolom, Adonia●, or other usurper, should say; I have 1 sanctification, 2 knowledge, 3 spirit of discerning, 4 of ●ttera●ce, 5 of power and authority in judging, 6 effectual & ordinary decidind & ending of controversies &c therefore I am a lawful King, judge or Magistrate; and God hath given witness by these undoubted testimonies, of the truth of my Magistracy: whether this ●lea wo●ld serve him, or these testimonies approve his office? yet are these most pregnant proofs of your Ministry.  
6. The 6. and last testimonies is, their effectual & ordinary calling and begetting to the faith of God, etc. This I have before touched and showed that ordinarily they beget not, but hinder the true faith: they keep the people in bl●ndenes and idolatry, wh●ch is a work of darkness and of 
c Gal. 5, 19 20.  the flesh; and if by their preaching any be brought to the true faith, I account it Gods extraordinary work, which I doubt not but is also a●ōg the Papist.  
Again, if this were granted them, I would know what office they would claim i● the church hereby; whether Apostleship of some other function. For in the Church of Corinth were many teachers and instructours yet begat they not their people to the fa●th, for the Apostle Paul challengeth to be their father only, and to ha●e begotten them in Christ through the gospel. 1. Cor, ●. 15. So there may be a lawful Pastor or Teacher in a church, which never begat any of them to the faith, but only nourisheth and increaseth faith in them, that were begotten afore He is chosen to feed the flock. 1. Pet. 5. ●. not to beget the same; the flock is a company of faithful people, begotten before they have a Past●r.  
The begetting of faith, was first and chiefly by the Apostles and Evangelists, that went about preaching the word, to them that had not heard it. Rom. 15, 20.21. It ●s also by the ministers of churches, or prophets; (though not in office of ministry,) wh●n unbelievers come into their assemblies, 1 Cor. 14.24.25. It is also by all Christians privately me● and women which preaching and witnessing the truth of the Gospel, reading talking, conferring of the scriptures, do convert many unto God inform their children and families in the faith, and save their souls, Act 8.4: &. 18 ●6 1 Cor. 7.16. Eph. 6 4. Deut. 6.7.  
S● the begetting of fa●th, is no certain testimony of a true Ministry. Whereas therefore you conclude, that your Ministry begat us also, if ever we wer● truly begotten in th● spirit: we may answer you with Moses 
d Num 16.7  ●e take to mu●h upon you. y● sons of Levi. For know you not the wind bloweth where it lifts, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot t●l whence it cometh or whether it goeth; and 
a joh. 3.8.  so is every man that is bor● of the spirit? It seemeth you count nothing preaching but that which is in the pulpit; nothing the word of God, but that which cometh out of your Ministers lips: but thanks be unto God that hath given us better to discern the work of his grace, and hath breathed upon us with his holy spirit; 
Reu. 7.1.  whiles your Ministers stood like the 4. Angels in the corners of the earth, holding the winds that they should not blow.   

The 6 Consideration.  
6. ALso our godly people have all the marks and tokens of God's people and elect, 1 which the scriptures set down, 2 which the people in the tim● of Christ and his Apostles had, 3 which the professors of any church that is now in the world have, 4 yea which yourselves in your supposed perfection can boa●● of: which is sealed unto them, 1 by the care, peace, and testimony of a good conscience in all things. 2 by suffering for sundry parts both of righteousness and 〈◊〉 3 by effectual comforts in such sufferings, 4 assurance of faith, of hope, of remission of sins; Gods dear love unto them; 5 by spiritual love and th● fruits thereof, 6. by the progress and daily growth in knowledge strength and godliness etc.   

Answer.  
THAT many of your people are Gods elect, I undoubtedly acknowledge: and I would to God such were the estate of you every one. Yet the constitution of your people in your church, is not a Communion of Saints with which we may participate: but a confuse mixture of all sorts of men from which the godly must separate, as touching the worship of God.  
In this your defence of them, you begin thus, Our Godly people, Bu● who are they, can we tell? are not all your people godly? of the true church it is written, 
b If●· 60. 2●  thy people shallbe all righteous if your people be not such? why make you not a separation from the ungodly, that will not be reclaimed; or why cast you them not out from among you? Thus ought you to do by the Testament of Christ. 2. Cor. 6.14.17. 1. Cor. 5.13, If you do it not, you profane Gods everlasting covenant.  
I deny not but many hypocrites and reprobates will creep into the true church; and much ungodliness will their break out, as in any assembly in the world: but when it is seen, the sinner is presently to be reproved; and either must purge himself by repentance, or be excommunicate. Luk. 17.3. Mat, 18.15.16 17. Thus still the church continueth a communion of Saints, an unleavened lump, a holy nation. 1 Cor. 1, &. 5. ●. 1 Pet. 2 9  
Now for your works and token's; you say they have all 1 which the scriptures set ●r●w. This is denied, and had you searched the scriptures▪ you might easily have seen it otherweise. For;  
They are not a separate● people called out from the world: which is o●e principal ●ark, (as before I have showed,) urged often in the scriptures. 1. King. 8 53. Isa. 52. 1●. Ier, 15.19. joh. 17.14.16, Reu'18. 4.  
They are not the Lords free people, enjoying the liberty of the gospel: but in thraldom to strange Lord a●d laws ecclesiastical. Contrary to L●uit. ●5. 42.55. 1 Cor. 7. ●3. joh, 8, 32 36 Gal. 5 1.  
They walk not in the truth of the gospel; but in many things are corrupted with the remainders of po●ish s●perst●ons and idolatry. Contrary, to Psal. 26.3. 3 joh 3, 4. Rom. 6, 4. Ephe, 2, 10. 1 Cor, 10, 14. 2●. Reu. 14, 9.12.  
In these and many other particulars, your, people are contrary to the scriptures: so the principal marks are wanting.  
2 Next you compare th●m with the professors of any church new in the world This is more boldly then wisely spoken of you: show if you can any reformed church, whose people are like yours, for ●●rr mixture of all sorts or in l●ke bondage to Antichristian prelate's; or that use like superstions and idolatries in the worship of God, and daily conversation. Remember also what some of yourselves have written heretofore; how that 
a Epistle before the De monst.  Of all the nations that, have rencunced that whore of Rome th●re ïs none in the world so far out of square, as England, in retaining the Popish hierarchy.  
Your last comprison is with ourselves, whom you twit with supposed perfection: wherein you injury us, and yet help not yourselves. For we suppose no perfection at all to be in us, either in knowledge or practise but are privy to ourselves of our infirmities;; and are sure we have more also than 
b Psa. 19.12.  we can discern. Yet by the grace of God we are that we are and his grace is not in vain in us, but as it hath brought us out of confusion bo●dage and Idolatry, wherein your people still remain, so we trust it will keep us in the truth of the gospel, until we come to perfection in the kingdom of our father which is in heaven.  
3. Next you speak of the sealing hereof unto your people, 1. By the care, peace and testimony of a good conscience in all things. what care can be seen in such confused careless walking of your people, commixed in one body, with the profane and serpent's seed? what peace of conscience can there be, when men do walk in open transgression of God's law except such as whereby a man falsely blesses himself, saying I shall have peace, although I walk according to the stubbornness of my own hart? Deut. 29, 19, There is no peace saith the Lord, unto the wicked, Isa. 48.22. The ways of your people being wicked, their spiritual actions idolatrous it must needs be a blind or corrupt conscience that testifieth for them in this estate.  
2.3. Their 2 sufferings, and 3 effectual comforts in them; we will beleeu when we see them. For the present, we behold many of your people for avoiding the cross of Christ to submit to the Idolatries of your Church against their own conscience and confession, Very few that will suffer for any part of the truth but none at all that suffer for all, except such as forsake your confused assemblies. And if one or two in a shire, do suffer a little trouble, for not being buxom enough to the Prelates and their co●rts: what is that to justify the profane multitudes and general state of your people, which are readier to persecute, then to suffer persecution for righteousness sake; as we have had lamentable experience these m●ny yeires. Wherefore, as their sufferings, so I think their Comforts are.  
4, Their assurance of faith, of hope, of remission of sins▪ and of God's dear love unto th●●; may well be boaste● of, but not soundly felt. For where so many evil works do abound and reign, there is not true faith, and consequently no ●●re hope of remission of sins. Show us therefore your faith by your works for we cannot see your hearts. But this we find in the scriptures, that your forefather's; when the Prophets reproved the● for their sins, wo●ld vaunt as you do an● lean vpo● the L●rd a●d ●ay, is not the Lord a●ong us; no evil can come up●n us. Mic. 3 11. This glorying of inward graces when outward transgressions do prevail: is mere delusion; common with all sorts and sects of religion. Even the h●rlot can boast of her peace offerings, Pro 7.14. and the Ph●risee thanketh God, that he is not as other men Luk. 18 11.  
5 Their spritual love and fruits thereof, let them record th●t have tasted of. It is well known in the land, how many of God's children hau● been impoverished, afflicted, tormented, by long and lamentable imprisonment vexation and spoil of goods, exile and other like means women left widows, and children fatherless. How your godly people have visited comforted and relieved them▪ is not so well known: it may be their charity hath been in secret, and their left hand knoweth not what their right hath done. Wherefore you needed not have offered this to our consideration, who are so unaquainted with their love: let them selves rather consider how they shall answer when they come to that hour mentioned, Mat. 25.34 35.41, 42. etc. If you think they have showed love to their friends and favourites; that will procure them but little thank, even sinners and publicans do the same. Luk. 6.32.33. etc.  
6, Their progress and daily growth in knowledge strength▪ & godliness, is ill seen in the estate they stand; there being at this day rather moe gross abominations urged and observed in your public assemblies, then have been heretofore; and your ch●rch further from reformation now in the end, then was at the begin●●●●: that unless you come to walk as your brethren of th● separation, and quite abandon the hope of reforming Babel; it will shortly appear t●at all your labours be but s●iders webs; and your expectation vanity and vexation of spirit   

The 7. Consideration  
Consider how God hath witnessed his love and approbation to our church, 1 by many victories and deliverances from the enemies of Christ, 2 long continuance of the gospel among us 3 strange judgements on the enemies & persecutors of the gospel. 4 the power and blessing in casting out Devils. 5 prayer heard both in spiritual and earthly things, 6 by throwing down the Chur●● of 〈◊〉, and building of the Church of God, by preaching, disputing and printing of many excellent works and volumes published of all sorts▪ which non● of you in anything have ever yet attained, but only to threw down God's church to raise ●●ssention among brethren, to rend the church, to distract the ignorant, to afford the weak▪ to hinder the cause of reformation, to bear false witness against your brethren, and belie the holy ordinances of God.   

Answer.  
1. IF many victories and deliverances, be an undoubted testimony of God's love and approbation of a people and their religeon; then 〈◊〉 might well have boasted of his religion, who conquered seventy Kings and made them gather bread under his table. judg. 1.7. Then Raisak his reason was good, which he allegeth against the Israel t●, f●r that he had conquered so many nations 2 Kin 18, 33·34, 35·S If on the Turks at this day, may triumph over Christian religeon, because they have warraye● a great part of the world‘ & taken from Christians ●any k●ngd●mes and provinces. Yea this very reason did heathen men heretofore allege for defence of pagan ●me, as that 
a Symma●●● in Epist. pr● sacr. patrum  by it Rome had been kept against 〈◊〉, and ●ther enemy's: and, that 
b Caeciliu; Ar●eb lib 8  therefore Rome had got the Emp●r● of all provinces and parts of the world; because, it worshipped and served. 〈◊〉 ●o●s that were in the w●rld, even the unknown Gods also. I would wish you therefore to mind better ground for the truth of religion: and remember what is written of the ancient Babylonians: after their victories; Th●n shall they take courage, & transgress and do wickedly imputing this their power unto their Gods▪ Habak. 1.11.  
2. The long continuance of the gospel among you, will make the more against you at the day of your accounts because you yield no better obedience to the gospel as your present idolatrous estate showeth. The gospel was among the men of the 
c Gen 6. 1 Pe 3.19.20. 2 Pet, 2.5.  old world; 120, years taught by Noah, a preacher of righteousness; yet at last they perished by the stood for their disobedience: therefore though it hath been with you, about half that time, you also ●ay perish, if you repent not. But (note) you take it for granted which is yet to be proved, that the gospel is among you: whereas the true peach●ng and practise thereof, you cannot endure. The sound of the Gospel, by th● f●et of them that puplish peace, is this Thy God oh Zion reigneth; ● judah keep thy solemn feasts perforrme thy vows, for the wicked shall no more pass through thee (he is utterly out off. Isa. 52, 7, Nahum. 1.15. with Rom. 10 15. but Christ reigneth not yet among you by his own officers and law●s, (as hath been confessed by the best of your Ministers;) you keep the solemn feasts of Ant●christ, as your Christmas. C●n●elinas, Hallowmas Ea●●●r, and many the like; and the wicked at still in the midds of you, and w●lk on e●ery side; yea are exalted; which Da●id saith is a form for the sons of m●n. Psal. 12.8.  
3. The strange judgements on enemies and persecutors, are good warnings for you that you persecute your brothers no longer: we have seen & minded some, upon no mean men ●mong you; but wish not to see more we rather desire the conversion of our enim●es.  
4. The power and blessing in casting out Devils, (though it may be questioned whether it be so or no in your Church,) is a thing that the Papists can boast of more than you. See their late supplication 37. reason of religion. Secondly, such Devils as are said to dwell in Babylon, Reu. 18, 2. we plainly see you have no power to cast out.  
3 I would wish you to remember the words of Christ, Many will say to me in that day; Lord Lord, have we not by thy name prophesied. and by thy name cast out devil's etc. and then will I profess to them I never knew you depart from me. ye that work iniquity. Mat. 7.22.23.  
5 For your prayer heard both in spiritual and earthly things take heed you deceiu not yourselves; many years have you prayed & fasted for your discipline and pretended reformation; but how you have been heard, your present state showeth. As for earthly things, if God give them unto you, it is no sound proof that he approveth your prayers, much less your church. Some evil men's eyes 
a Psal. 73.7  stand out for fatness, they have more than the hart desireth; but 
b job 21.16  their wealth is not in their hand, there for● the council of the wicked be far from me. God heard the prayer of the King of the Philistims; Gen 20.4.6, he answered at the sacrifices of the sooth sayer Balaam; Num, 23, 3, 4, 15, 16. &c, shall we think God therefore allowed of their religion?  
Again, what people in the world is not persuaded and will not say that God heareth their prayers? Even the hethens would boast thus of their false Gods; as julian protested that 
c Cyril. contra jul. lib. 7 s.  Aes●ulapius had often healed him being sick: and 
d Fast 5 aepe joven vids quum iam sua mittere vellet fulins 〈…〉 susti●●isse 〈…〉  Ovid, that he had often seen jupiters' anger appeased with incense. etc. See you not then, that as the Saints when they walk upright before the Lord, have assurance, and sound comfort thereby that be 
e Psa 66.18 19 116.1 2.1. job 5. 1●.  heareth their prayers which they make according to his will: so hypocrites and ethniks have also their false persuasions that their prayers are heard and vain comforts according? Vaunt not therefore of your prayers being ●eard, so long as you do works which are to be abhorred but remember how it ●s written, whosoever we ask, we receive. (of God, because w● ke●p his 〈◊〉, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. Heb. 3.21.  
6. Your throwing down the church of Antichrist, and building the church of God, by ●reaching, etc. is according to the proverb, 
a Pro 25, 14  Clouds and wind without 〈◊〉. Let your brethren be witnesses; Of the first they say, 
b 1 admon, to Parl, pag 33  Antichrist reigneth amongst you: Of the latter, that 
c ibid. p 4.  as yet you are scarce come to 〈…〉 a church rightly reform, and again; that 
d Supplication to the Parl. p, 67.  the walls of Zion he even with the ground. Yet now you vaunt of throwing down Antichrists ●hur●h and building Gods.  
The Martyrs in Q Mary's days did indeed by their faithful testimonies and patient sufferings, throw down a great part of Antichrist church but since that time, what have you done, unless it hath been to repair jericho? For many gross abuses which those Martyrs abhorred, are now stiffly maintained and practised in your church: but farther then they went, have you not stepped a foot & if some of your inferior ministry, have spoken or written against a few foolish ceremonies; yet others of your chiefest ministers have written as much for them, that what superstition your church pulleth down with the left hand, it setteth up with the right. The Prelates and their side have written against you that seek reformation of Babel: and they both have set against us that make separation from Babel: and yet you here offer to our consideration, how you have builded Zion. But the Lord will visit both you & your building; then shall your reword be according to your works.  
In the end you ease your stomach against us, as they that throw down God's church, raise dissension, with many moe grievous calumniations, which in your distempered affection you throw forth. More wisdom, and much more modesty had it been, if you had spared these reproaches till you had convinced us of such things. But I see how your zeal did carry you Ezekiah threw down the idolatrous places in Israel; and reduced the people unto God's true worship 2 Chro 31.1.2, etc. & 30.1.2 etc. Rabsaketh reproached him for this, as having done sacrilege against his own God. Isa. 36.7 We, by the word of our testimony, throw down your idolatrous high places, superstitions, ceremonies, false worship and ministry you charge us w●th throwing down God●s church, and load us with many criminations. But it is yourselves that trouble Israel; for do we reprove you for any good thing in doctrine or practice; or have we left any truth that is among you; And if by our testimony of the gospel, dissension be raised and your church rend, the ignorant distracted & weak offended: blame not us which testify the truth, but yourselves and such as resist it. Think you that Chr●st came to give peace on the earth? he hath told you may but rather debate. For five in one house shallbe, divided, three against two and two against three, father against sonn mother against d●ughter: and 
e Luk 12.51: 52, Mat. 12.6  ble●sed is he that shall not be offended in Christ When the Temple of God is opened in heaven, & the ark of his covenant seen therein there are lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, & earthquake, and much bail. Think it not strange then, 
Ren 11.19  if troubles do follow follow the preaching of the Gospel; neither impute your own faults unto us: but submit your necks unto the yoke of Christ, lest he 
* Psa 18.14.  send out his arrows and scatter you. and increase lightnings and destroy you. How your church's ●state hat● been justified by you, the reader may see by that you have brought? and how far we are from your unchristian calumnies shall further app●a●, by the help of God, in the answer to your other Considerations, that now next follow.   

On your part, consider,  
1, YOur Separation is very strange, unboard of in any age of the Church, having no show of warrant from God's word, either by commandment or example.   

Answer.  
YOU would not call our separation strange, if yourself were not a stranger from the common wealth of Israel. What age was there ever in the world, since light was separated from darkness; that heard not of separation from the false Ch●rch, the fast man Adam saw it. in the separation 
† Gen 4.16 & 6.2.  of Seths' posterity from Caines. Noah did the like 
” Gen 9.25 26. &. cha, 11.  in Sems' posterity from Cham's. Abraham was 
* Gen 19  called out of Chaldee: 
‡ Gen. 12.  Let out of Sodom: Israel, out of 
† Ex, 4 &c  Egypt and 
” Isa 48.20  Babel; faithful judah 
† Host ●. 15  from rebellious Israel; Christ's disciples, 
* Act 2 40 41. 2 Cor, 6 14.17.  from faithless jews and Gentiles; and all the Lords people. 
† Reu. 18: 4  from your confused Babylon Yea God himself did first teach it when he made a separation between the woman's seed and the Serpents, Gen. 3. ●5. And yet you say, it hath no show of warrant from God's word Hereafter I suppose you will say so no more, but will see if you can prove yourselves a tr●e Church, meet to be communicated withal: which when you do, we by God's grace will return unto you.   

The 2. Consideration.  
2, THE points in difference between us and you did arise at first from persons, in whom God testified against your present causes, 1 Mr. Bolton hanged himself; ● Mr. Brown revolted and came back from you; 3 Mr. Pe●ry, Barrow, and Greenwood were hanged; 4 Mr. I●hnsons and the rest banished: and (note) not by heathen and Antichristian tyrants, as were true Martyrs of Christ, but by Christian Magistrat's professing and maintaining the Gospel of Christ. Besides your principal pillars of greatest reckoning gifts and judgement, have returned from you unto the Church of England; as Harrison, Smith, Crud, Slad, and sundry other mi●●sters and men of learning and account, who also lived holily, and died most comfortably in the Lord notwithstanding.   

Answer.  
IT is a wonder, if you be a teacher in your church that your salt is so vasavory. Shall men's persons now be brought against the case of Christ have you no better learned him? Might not a Can●anite or Philistian have reasoned thus against Israel? The wares against us and you did arise at first from persons in whom God testified against your present cause. Some were 
* Num 11.1  brunt with fire, some 
‡ Num. 16 32 33.  sunk into the earth alive, some were destroyed by 
” Num 21.6  serpents. some by 
† Num. 25.9  pestilence, some by the 
* Num. 14.45.  enemy's sword. some by the sword of 
‡ Ex 32, 27  their own brethren. even Moses and A●ron your principal pillars of greatest reckoning, died in the desert 
” Num 20.12  for their sin, and of 
† Ex 12, 37  six hundred thousand men that came out of Egypt to fight against us only 
* Num. 26 64, 65,  two men are left alive: and (note) these things have come upon you b● the hand of your God, whom you say, that he hath sent you to war against us Thus might a Pagan have pleaded against God's church then; with as much truth and more colour than you that are called a Christian, can do against us. But let us see your particulars.  
1. M●, Bolton (yo● say) h●nged himself. And so did judas, one of the ●irst and principal publisher● of Christ's Gospel. Will you therefore call Christ●a●ity into question for it? Besides this Bolton. (one of the Elders of that separated Church whereof Mr. Fits. was Pastor in the beginning of Q. Eliz. reign,) first revolted at Paul's Cross, was reproved and excommunicate for this by the church: and aft●r not having grace to return or repent, hanged himself. This is testified to me by one yet living among us, who tho● was member of that church & well acquainted with the affairs thereof: and with this matter, and saw the man dead. Which being so Boltons' Martyrdom is little for the credit of your cause and church where of he died a member  
2 Mr. Brown revolted etc. And to did 
‡ 2 Tim. 4 10.  Demas, and divers others in all ages, who loved this present world, more than God. But consider you here the Apostles words: what though some have been unfaithful, shall their unfaithfulness make the faith of God without effect? Farr be it. Rom. 3.3 4. besides, how well Mr. Brown approveth of your church, though he live in it; if you ask him I suppose, will tell you.  
3. Mr. Penry Barrow, and Greenwood were hanged. And so was Christ himself; and (note) not by heathen tyranns, (for Pilate 
” Mat. 27.24.  washed his hands of his blood;) but by Priests, Scribes, and Pharisees, professing and maintaining the religion of God, as your church now doth. And you that allege the hanging of these men to reproach our faith: it is probable that if you had then lived, you would have reproached Christ himself; in the fellowship of whose afflictions and reproaches, we now rejoice and are not ashamed. But fulfil you the measure of your forefathers.  
4. Mr. johnsens and the rest 〈◊〉. And so was 
* Reu. 1.9.  I●hn, the 
‡ Mar 3 17  sonn of● thunder; and many other of God's people many t●mes You and your church shall have small cause to boast of your persecuting Christ's witnesses, when the day of your 〈◊〉 shall come.  
Your captions note that these punishments are ne●ly heathen tyran●● but by professed Christians▪ is indeed worthy to be noted and lamented: yet is it of no note or force, to disprove the truth of our cause. For who persecuted Chr●st and his Apostles more than the Israelites Gods peculiar and professed people? who more than the 
” Act 4.11.  builders, refused him the chief cornerstone? whe●e were the Prophets killed, but 
† Luk ●3. 33  in jerusalem? Yea not only false Christians and hypocrites, but God's elect-seruants may so be overtaken, as to persecute and kill the Lords people. Did not the 
* Gen. 37.  Patriarches sell joseph into Egypt, when some of them would have killed him? was not Sol●m●n a good King? Yet sought he 
‡ 1 Kin. 11 30.31 37.40.  to kill jeroboam without cause; whom God had apppointed to be King after him. Was not Aja 
” 2 Chro. 14 23 etc.  a godly King, and good reformer of the church (yet was he wroth with Hanani the Seer, and 
† 2, Chro 16 7.10.  put him into prison, only for speaking unto him the word of the Lord. What weight is there then in thi● your cavil, that our affliction are by Christian magistrates, therefore out cause is evil? Good princes may be over carried either by their own affections; or by the suggestions and provocations of other men. And if you will not yet see your folly, mind this for yourselves; that you which 〈◊〉 called Puritans, are molested, imprisoned, persecuted: and (note) not by hethens and Antichristian tyranns; but by your own Christian magistrates and Bishops, professing and maintaining the gospel of Christ. Ergo, either your cause or your argument is naught.  
Your last point is partly false, and partly frivolous: for Mr. Harrison▪ returned not unto your church of England; but died at Middleburgh in this faith that we profess. Mr. Smith, Crud, and some others, (which never were officers. much less pillars, in our Church,) did indeed forsake their first faith, and died soon after; with what comfort, themselves now know. But what if many more had forsaken us, yet the truth of the gospel which we profess, shall stand.  
Christian religion was at a low ebb, when so many went back, that jesus said to the twelve 
* joh. 6.66.67.  will you also gee away? Yet Christianity still flourisheth, and shall, so long as the moon endureth. And we with comfort do behold; that though many bad ones have gone away▪ yet God bringeth better in their place daily.   

The 3. Consideration  
3. NOte your dissensions between 1 Brown and Harrison, 2 Brown 〈◊〉 Barron, 3 Barro● and Francis johnson; 4 Francis and George johnson; 5 ●r. johnson and Mr. Slade (that great scholar) 6 Chaph●n and others a●out Anahaptisme, nay none of your great Rabbins but have grossly disagreed disagreed among themselves. It pitieth us to see your poor congregation, how lamentably it hath been rend with mutual dissensions bitings, and devouring of ech●ethers▪ wh●ch doubtless is no 〈◊〉 ●f the spirit of God. These are not lies but matters known; and they are matters horrible and strange.   

Answer.  
IF you were an Atheist or Pagan▪ as you profess to be a Christian: you might in this ma●●r reproach the church of God ●uer since the world began; saying. Note the dissensions, between 
(a) Gen. 4.  Kain and Abel; 
b Gen. 9  Cham and Noah; 
c Ge 27. etc  Esaw and jaacob, 
d Ge 37 &c,  joseph and the patriarchs, 
e Exo, 32. Num, 20.  Moses and the Isralites; 
f Num, 6  Moses and the Levites, 
g Num 12  Moses and his ●wn sister and brother, 
h judg. 8.  Gedeen and the men of Ephraim, of Succ●th. and of Pennel, 
i judge, 9  Ab●melech and his brethren 
k judg. 11  I●phteh and his brethren, 
l jud. 20 etc.  Benjamin and the other tri●es of Israel, 
m 1 Sam 18 etc.  Saul and David, 
n 2 Sam, 15 etc.  David and Absalon, 
o 1 Kin 12 etc.  the ten tribes and the two, from jeroboams times and after, 
p Act 23.7 etc.  the Pharisees & Sadducees in the jewish Church, 
q Luk, 22.24.  the Apostles of Christ, the dissensions 
r 1 Cor 1 & ● Galat. Philip. 3 john. etc.  in Corenth and the other Apostolic Church's: These are not lies, but matters known, and recorded in the scriptures: and they are matters horrible and s●rangem. So then, if your proposed Consideration be of weight to turn us from our present faith, because of the dissensions that have been among us: the like consideration enough turn us also (which God forbid) from all faith and religion, & make us as very Atheists, as a many of your church already are. And indeed where unto leadeth this manner reasoning which you use, b●t unto Atheisms? For if an Infidel ●hould mind religion, might he not be kept back, by considering the dissensions, in fa●th, between Painims, jews, Mahometists, and Christians, and a jew or Turk be kept from Christianity, because of the dis●entions between Protestants, Papists, Arians, Anabaptists and other sects many? Yea are not the Papists at this day hindered from true religeon, by 
s Bellarm, de not, ecclesia 10.  noting (as you do) the dissensions between Luther, Zwinglius, Calv●n & c? But it seemeth all these were far from your consideration, or if you minded them yet were they but motes in your eye: they be our dissensions, ours only that trouble you It pitieth you to see our poor congregation. how lamentably it hath been rend etc. but you are hard-hearted, and take no pity belike on your own Church. which you so highly commend unto us, though dissensions for discipline, (that I speak not of other matters) have been so great, that you ha●e not only preached & printed on against an other now many a year and that in very bitter and hostile manner, but also, persecu●ede imprisoned & fought the blood on of an other. Well, howsoever we have indeed just cause to lament, that by our dissensions, you and others have taken occasion to blaspheme the truth of God: yet herein have we comfort that such things must be amongst us (as the Holy Ghost saith,) 
t 1 Cor. 11.18, 19  that they which are approved may be known. And you, if by no means you will learn the estate of a Church here on earth, where it is in continual war with the Serpent and his seed; but still you think these things horrible and strange: take heed you stumble not at the stone Christ to your destruction & have your abiding in that house, which the strongman armed keepeth and the things that he possesseth are in peace. Luk 11.21.   

The 4. Consideration.  
4. YOur chiefest teachers cannot as yet determine, what the discipline i● that they would have as what the difference is between a Pastor & a Doctor, whether Apostates ought to be admitted to office in the church etc.   

Answer.  
1, THere is no such dissension among us touching these matters as you would here insinuate: though if there were, yet our imperfection and difference in judgement showeth that we are weak men; but no whit pre●ud●ceth the truth we profess.  
2, The heathen Philosophers, in the Ni●oean Synod. objected the like against Christians, that they agreed not in opinion among themselves S●zomen. lib. 1, cap. 18.  
3. Yourself heathenlike, may object against Paul and Barnaba● (two of the chiefest teachers of Christian religion,) one of the two things wherewith you here do reproach us; because they not only could not determine whether john Mark, (who had before departed from them) should accompany them in the work of the Gospel; but were so stirred, that they departed asunder one from the other, Act. 15.37.38.39.40.  
4. You might much better blame your own Church and chiefest teachers, that cannot as yet determine what the discipline is that they would have; witness your long continued controversies in print; wherein what ado you make about discipline, all the world knoweth. If yourselves would walk better, in the truth, peace and concord of the gospel, you might wi●h more equity find fault with us: pull therefore the beam first out of your own eye.   

The 5 Consideration.  
5 THE Lord hath also testified against you, by giving over very many people, 1 to Atheism. 2 carnal life, 3 Papism, 4 Anabaptism, 5 Ari●nijme, 6 Familisme, which are not slanders but matters known to all that are acquainted with the course and state of your Church.   

Answer.  
ALl this being true, it showeth the badness of some men, not any badness in the faith we profess. An infidel might have objected unto Israel. as you do here: The Lord hath testified against you, by giving over over very many of your people, to Carnal life, Sed●mitrie. Peorisme, Bautisme, 
Num. 2●. 1 3. judge 19 22. &. Psa. 106.14 28 36. judg. 2 13.  & many other idolatries with strange Gods. The Papists may and do object the like things to yourselves at this day. much more justly than you do to us. For when any such have appeared among us, we presently cast them out if they repented not: whereas with you, such are still retained in the bosom of your Church; yea such heretics and vicious persons, as we have excommunicate; you do entertain, as is known to all that are acquainted with your estate. Wherefore the Lord hath testified for us, not against us, whiles by the light of his word, such hypocrites have been discovered and avoided: but you are condemned by your own doctrine, whiles such miscreants, and flagitioius persons are kept in your communion.   

The 6. Consideration  
6. THE churches and godly learned persons that ever heard of your separation, did not approve of it, which was the quarrel that Fr johnson had with Mr junius, and he sharply replieth on him. Nay Mr Barrow plainly raiseth at Calvin and the Geneva church, and even at all churches in Christendom. in his Discovery: and counsels not with other reformed churches about their separation. but Answers (as Mr johnson doth) the word is near us, we need not go over the seas to seek it as if the Spirit of the Prophets were not subject to the Prophets, and himself (as the Pope) had infallible rule of interpretation of the scriptures in his breast.   

Answer,  
THE strength of this reason, is quelled before, in the answer to the third of your first Considerations: thither I refer the reader.  
Further I answer, here that you teach such doctrine, as standeth not with Christian freedom or truth, whiles you would forbid us the profession and practice of the Gospel, till we have consulted with, and be approved of other persons and Churches. For though I grant there is a good use of advising with other Churches, (if conveniently we can,) either when cases are difficult. or when in any respect it do concern them: yet that in all matters of religion Christians should be bound thus to walk when the fin to them is evident, which to other Churches (not well acquainted with their estate,) is not so perspicuous; this were to abridge Christian liberty, and to bring our consciences in bondage unto men; that though God forbid us 
* 1 Cor 10.14 1 joh 4, 21.  all communion with idolatry, yet we may not separate unless they approve it. It is contrary to the word of God, which teacheth us that God's commandment is 
‡ Deu 30, 11 12.13.14. Rom. 10, 8  not hid from his people neither is far off, not aloft in heaven, nor beyond the sea, but in our mouths & ●●rts to do it. But you to deceive your reader, allege this, as if it were Mr. B●rrows or Mr johnsons' reason, and not the doctrine of Moses and of the Apostle.  
The col●●r that you bring for yourself, is that saying of the Apostle the spirits of the prophet's are subject to the prophet's 1 Cor. 14.32 which scripture considered by the words and circumstances of it, will in no we●se prove your purpose. F●r. first it may be questioned. whether the meaning be, that the spirits of the prophets are subject to other prophets or to themselves. For the Prophets among the gentiles, (such as the Corinthians naturally 
a 1. Cor 12, 2  were, (were subject unto, & carried and ruled by their spirits, and not their spirits subject to them: so that they could not choose but s●e●ke, (as 
b Ora●, Sibil l. 2 in princip.  S●bylla witnesseth of herself.) neither could they lin or cease speaking, when they would themselves yea and in holy scripture we see how 
c Num, 23 &. 24.  Balaam prophesied good to Israel, and blessed, when he would have cursed th●m▪ Saul also and his messengers, 
† 1 Sam 19 20 ●4.  prophesied (as it were) by constraint, being overmastered by the spirit, so as he could not co●teyn himself, bu● stripping off his clothes, prophe●●e● all that day and all that night, when he had no purpose thus to do. Now therefore, where as the Apostle here had ordained, that if any thing were 
e 1 Cori ●, 30  re●eled to another that fare by the first prophet should hold his peace, because 
f ver. 32.  almight prophesy one by one: if any should allege, that they could not hold their peace, but must speak, so long as their spirit moved them he telleth them, that 
g ver. 34.  the spirits of th● prophets are subject to the prophets; so intimating that they may, if they will give others le●ue to speak showing also a reason hereof because 
h Rome 14.1  God is not (the author) q of confusion but of peace. And if thus we understand the Apostle, his words make nothing for that you say. Unto this also may be added, that he speaketh this affirmatively, they are subject, and not by way of ordinance, let them be subject, as 
i ver. 22  else where he useth: and as other things in this place are spoken; as 
k ver. 30,  Let the prophets speak; 
l ver. 34.  Let the first hold his peace; Let women be silent.  
But be it granted (which I will not deny) that he meaneth their spirits were subject to other Prophets; because when they had spoken 
m ver. 29  others were to judge: yet those o●her, were the Prophets of ●he same church and there present not in other churches. For Paul meant not, that the spirits of the Prophets in Corinth, were subject to the prophets in Rome or judoea and so must send to them for approbation; but appointeth like order in this, as was in 
n ver, 30.  all (other) the Churches of the Saints. And if they were bound (as you would have us) to send and submit to other churches, and others likeweise to them; then no Church hath no power in i● self, to apr●●e of her prophets, or Ministers or of their doctrine, without the good liking of others,. Which how far it is from the Apostles mind I leave it for the discreet reader to judge: neither think I but your own brethren will distant y●●r so collecting from this place Howsoe●er they do, it is very like if you had lived in Ahabs days and should have heard 
1 Kin 22.6  400 prophets at once prophesying good unto the King, and Micaiah only 
b ver 17.18  prophesying evil: you would with 
c verse. 24.  Zidkijah have smitten him on the cheek, (as now you do us in reproach,) & told him that his spirit must be subject to the prophets, especially they being so many, and he but alone.  
But if it were further granted unto you, that we must be subject to the prophets of other churches: yet I suppose you will not deny but all prophets and churches must try and judge every thing by the 
d 1 Pet 4.11 Act 18·11.  word of God according to which if any man speak not, his judgement is not to be regarded. And we, have offered and do still offer our doctrine and practice to the trial of all men by that word: if men either will not try nor give sentence at all, or do judge amiss; we are not bound to wait upon them; but must live by 
e Hab. 2.  our own faith. The reformed churches have been wr●●ten to by us; (for we know and acknowledge them to be true churche● and our brethren in the Lord:) they give us no Answer. Shall we continue still ●n bondage to Antichr●st, till they bid us come out? What scripture teacheth us so? If they or any, convince us of error or evil, and we yield not; le● us be esteemed accordingly: otherwise if we walk in the truth, and they will not approve it, be it upon them, as they shall answer before the Lord.  
Mr. junius, whom you mention to reply so sharply, neither approveth your Church, nor condemneth our practice. no not though he were instantly urged: the writings between him and us are extant to the world, let the reader judge what both sides have said.  
Your censure of Mr, Barrow, (or scoffing rather at him,) neither hurteth him or us, nor helpeth you. His plain dealing in reproving the corruptions of these times. you call railing; it is marvel you say not also the prophets 
f Isa 1.4.10.21.23. &. 26.10.11. Mic, 3: 9.10, 11 & ●.  railed on the people of Israel, when they used sharp rebukes; for I suppose you can hardly show any hard speech that Mr. Barrow there writeth; which the Prophets and Apostles have not used before. But if he were overcaried with some severe speeches in a good cause‘ neither we not himself ever justified that infirmity, we know that we are frail men let the sharpness therefore be his but the truth (which he sharply teacheth) Gods:  
And why carp you at the manner of his writing. and meddle not with the matter? That book with others have discovered the idolatries of your church; which neither by you nor any, have ever yet been answered & refuted by the scriptures. For yourself, let the reader judge what you ●aue said.   

The 7 Consideration.  
7. THe great and gross disorder and partiality in administering of your disciplin●, which George johnson showeth cheerly; besides the wants of sunctimony and common duties of godliness, which (he saith) are to be found in far greater measure in the c●mm●n professors of the church of England: and saith further, that the Dutch churches take you for a most unquiet, contentious, and disorderly people.   

Answer.  
THis article you object unto us, upon one man's report that was for lying, and slandering, false accusation, and contention. himself cast out of our Church. By what rule or word of God, can you admit of the testimony of an excommunicate against a whole congregation? Reason also might teach you, that no man standing against a church to excommunication, will ever speak well of that church, in the cause wherein he standeth.  
But grant that this all were true which he reporteth what would you urge upon it? that therefore Christianity which we profess, is evil? so perhaps a Turk or jew would do with as much reason as you can conclude, that our separation from you is evil▪ Was there ever any truth, (think you,) that men did walk in it as they ought? or any Church in the world, wherein the discipline (as you call it) was administered as it should julian the Apostata, (that wrote so much against Christ,) reading the testimonies of Moses, the Prophets and Apostles, Deut. 9.7.22.24, Isa. 59 3, 4, 5, etc. Mic. 3.9.11. 1. Cor. 5.1.2, &. 11.21.22, etc. 3 john. 9.10. had as good ground to blame the Israelites and Christians for their manners & discipline, and consequently to dissuade them from their faith as you do us: yea he might allege faithful and undeniable witnesses: whereas you rely upon a slanderer.  
Finally, what aim you at, in all this, but to draw us back unto your church; and there it is like. we shall find discipline without disorder or partiality to weet, in your Bishop's courts, for there the discipline of your church is to be seen. Of which, we need say nothing; the voice almost of all the land crieth out of their abominations. Only we observe how pregnant your persuasions are, to make us beleeu, that because there are sins in Zion, there be none in Babylon.   

The 8 Consideration  
8. GOD never witnessed for you, nor gave testimony of his approving your separation whether we consider your ministry or people. For hardly can you show any one person converted by your ministry from papistry or atheism, or other open wickedness; as by God's blessing multitudes have been by ours: but only have you seduced and wrought upon the tender consciences of such as by our ministry were first begotten unto Christ, But (which is specially to be observed) from your distracted and divided congregations, multitudes have fallen away, to every kind of impiety & heresy reigning in the world.   

Answer.  
IF God approve our separation and our ministry by his word, (as we are sur● he doth) it is enough, though our ministry have not converted any. Your reason is as if a Crinite should ha●e said unto N●ah God never witnessed for thee nor gave testimony of his approving thy building of the Ark: 
Gen. ●.  for hardly canst thou show any one person converted by thy precahing or Ark building, these 120. years.  
Our ministry belongeth to our church; the assemblies whereof Papists, Atheists & such like wicked ones use not to frequent: and how is it possible ●ur ministry should convert such as come not to hear it. If we w●●ld object unto you, that few Turks and Saracens have been conuerted by your ministry: what would you answer? Yet where you say ●e can har●ly sh●w my etc. we can (if need were) show you many that were sometime prof●in & irreligious whiles they were of your church but coming and he●r●ng by God's providence the doctrine of our church, have been reclaimed from their lewd life & do walk holily in the faith with us. It is true in ●eed that our cause hath wrought most vpon such as being sometimes vn●er your ministry, had tender consciences & pliable to the truth others, of more corrupt consciences have set against & blasphemed it▪ T●e ●●●●ideratio● of this in any wise man's judgement will rather lead unto, ●hen ●rom our cause; when the better sort (by your own confession) do come unto us; the worse and refuse remain still with you.  
Your last point which you would have specially to be observed that multitudes ha●e fallen from us, to every kind of heresy and impiety, is indeed worthy to be observed. For first the scripture is fulfilled, which saith, m●ny sh●ll ●leaue unto them feignedly, Dan. 11.34, Secondly being fallen if they had come to a more holy faith & better walking when they were gone out from us, it might have importe● ours to be evil: but now that they have fallen to gross heresy & impiety; it argueth God's hand so be heavy up on them because they continued not in the truth with us. And this the scripture confirmeth saying of such as 
† 2 Thes, 2 10.11.12.  receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved; that therefore God will send them strong delusion, that they shall belee● lies; and of such as 
‡ 1 Tim 4.1.2.  depart from the faith; that they shall give heed unto spirits of errors and doctrines of Devils. It is also to be observed that all such impious & heretical persons as have departed from us; are interteyned with you in your communion, (unless themselves refuse to communicate with you;) your church is the receptacle of all s●ch Apostates, & there they are suffered in heresy & impiety so as they w●l frequent your assemblies. Better reasons therefore & more weithty considerations▪ ha●e you need to allege; before you can persuade us to return unto your church; for these hitherto propounded & examined are found too too l●ght. But it may be, better follow.    

ARGUMENTS. That the best assemblies of the present church of ENGLAND, are true visible CHURCHES.  
1. IN what churches soever are found in public practice, the things that essentially constitute a true visible church; they are true visible churches of Christ.  
But in the best of our assemblies are found in public practice the things that essentially constitute a true visible church:  
Therefore the best of our assemblies, are true visible Churches.  

Proof of the assumption  
A visible church is the house of God, 1 Tim. 3.15. Now the means or things that constitute it, are 1 Foundation jesus Christ to build upon; 1 Cor 3.11 Mat 16.18. 2 Builders; that is, such preaching ministers of the word, as do build in godliness, convert and confirm. 1 Cor 3 10. 3 Instrument of building the word of God. Eph. 2.20. 4 Matter to be built; people joined together in the profesion of the Gospel. 1 Cor 3.9 Eph. 2, 20.  
But all these are found in public practice in the best of our assemblies. Therefore in the best of our assemblies, are found in public practice, the things that constitute a true visible church.   

Answer.  
THE title of your arguments containeth 1 an error or absurdity; 2 & argueth some check in your own consciences for defence of your Church. 1 The error is, that you divide the church of England into many Churches; making the first (as I conjecture) a national Church; the other, parishional. This is an error, because it is an 
a Ex, 20,  humane invention and differeth from the scripture, which showeth many churches to be in a nation or country; as in judea, Asia, Galatia &c, Gal, 1, 2, 21. Reu. 1.4. but showeth not any national church. Now that yours is a national church not only the name and title, but also the constitution showeth; for it hath a Pastor over it, the Archbishop of Canterbury Primate and Metropolitan, your most reverend father in God; who maketh and consecrateth the Diocesan Bishops. (whereupon there are Diocesan churches or Sees; (and they again make the Parish Priests. To him and 
b form of cōsecrat. Bishops and Priests &c  to his successors, the inferior Bishops have sworn (so help them god through jesus Christ) all due reverence and obedience. If the mould of this Church were not fetched from Rome; show where you learned it.  
2. The check which the title argueth to be in your conscience, appears appears it that you plead but for the best assemblies of the present church of England; for do you not hereby intimate, that there is a worse sort which you will not plead for? yet both b●st, and worst are all one body, one church and communion: If your Church of England be Christ's why maintain you not the whole? is not every ●art and parcel of Christ's church to be defended? Think you that the priests and people of Israel, would have maintained the Most holy place of their Temple only, & have suffered the rest of the house to be ruinated and trodden under foot. or if they did thus, should they have done well? How perfidiously then do you deal with your church, (if it be the true church of Christ,) that you seek to uphold your Sanctum sanct●rum, your best assemblies; and neglect the rest▪ Or, if you would make one piece of your church Christ and another piece Antichrists, where both be in brotherhood and unity together: it is as absurd as if you would make one part of your body humane, an other bestial one piece Gods another Devils. It is contrary also to the plain scriptures which say; 
a 2 Cor. 6.14.15,  what communion hath light with darknese ●hat concerd hath Christ with belial meaning. none at all. Either therefore you must justify your whole Church; or you must with us make a separation. How long will you halt between two opinions.  
To your Argument I answer; the proofs of your assumption fail you.  
A visible church (you say) is 
b 1 Tim ●. 15.  the house of God. True; but your bethel, will be found Betha●en. the hou●e of Idolatry.  
You make the things constituting your house to be fowr 1 Foundation 2 Builders, 3 Instruments, 4 Matter, But the form or fashion of the building, you leave quite out: perhaps you saw that it would not endure the trial▪ 
Heb. 8.5.  when it should be compared with the pattern that God showed in the Mount.  
The Prophet Haggai 
c Hag. 1.4 etc.  reproved the jews for that God's house was not builded among them. If you had been ther. you would have disproved the Prophet by this sophistry. We have the 1 Foundation laid. Hag. 2.9, 2 Builders we have many both priests and people 3 Instruments also for to hew and square the timber and stone as axes etc. 4 and matter wherewith to build, as wood from the mountain, and stone from the qarrie. Therefore (though the stones be neither laid nor squared. nor the timber hewn, fitted or framed: because with us are found the things that essentially constitute a visible house,) we have the true house of God, But if your own material houses were no otherwise builded, than your church is, by this your argument. you would have but an uncouth dwelling. If you read Gen. 11. you shall find the tower of Babel, to be as well builded as your church; for there was the 1 Foundation laid; 2 Builders many, 3 instruments also; & 4 matter both brick and slime.  
Now let us examine the things which you say you have; and do bu● barely say for you prove it not.  
1. The Foundation is jesus Christ to build upon. 1 Cor. 3.11 Mat. 16.18. But this Foundation is not yet rightly laid in your assemblies you have it only in name and show: Christ is near in your mouths, but far from your actions. If you had showed by the scriptures how Christ is laid for the foundation of the church: it would soon have been seen that your house is set upon the sands. For you have not him for the mediator, prophet, priest, or king of your church, as it is now established. Many truths I acknowledge are taught among you but many untruths are also mixed with them, and the power of godliness is denied; for the truths that are taught cannot be practised. Your church hath also other spiritual Lords and laws than Christ and his testament; as your Prelates, with their cannons, articles, and decrees imposed upon you to be observed on pain of excommunication and, further penalties So Christ alone, is not your foundation, but his servants also 
a Rom 6.16  you are to whom you obey.  
2. Your builders are your preaching ministers, but I deny them to be God's builders, let them show when God designed them as he did 
b Exod. 31  Bezaleel & Aholia'●, to make his sanctuary. let them show by the word their office and calling as the Apostle Paul, of whom mention is made in the place you allege, 1 Cor 3: 10.) did ●n all his Epistles. Otherwise, not all that offer themselves to build may be admitted; for you know how it is written; It is not for you, and for us, to build the house unto our God. Ezra. 4.3.  
In most of your parish assemblies, you have but one preaching minister; and so but one builder, and he will be a good while in building the house; and if he be taken away (as many are) than your church wanteth one of the 4 essent all things In many parishes there be unpreaching ministers; your church maketh them builders also, (though you do not,) and unto such if we were among you, should we be constrained to submit our souls.  
The Bishops are master builders in all your churches, they command and control you their inferior Priests: if you build not by their line they throw down quickly all your building, and thrust the builders out of doors. These are like the horns that Zacharie saw 
c Zac 1.20 21.  which scattered judah, so that a man dar'st not lift up his head; but your preaching ministers are not like the carpenters that came to fray them away. How great a jar there is between your builders. we all do know; and long it will be ere they agree together to build God's house; or the work be finished for Christ to dwell in, when the master workmen work all awry and when (as you 
d Supplication. pag 67  complained to the Parliament) the walls of Zion, lie even with the ground.  
3. The instrument of building is the word of God. (as you allege Eph. 2.20. delivered by the Prophets and Apostles and Christ himself. But your builders use not this instrument aright, in doctrine or practice, they new not here with the rough stone, and knotty timber they reform not the profain & rebellious people, neither have they power in their arms to cut off any one wicked man; for the axe of excommunication is in the Bishop's hand alone, and his commissaries; he hath the keys to open & shut the doors of your Church; the parish priest hath perhaps a weeding hook, and may suspend from the sacrament a while, by virtue of his service-book: but the greatest wound that he can make herewith, the Bishop or his substitute will quickly heal. Again you have besides the Bible, Apocryphas books, commanded by law to be read in your church: also that other instrument called the service book: and with this tool your best minister's build up your church, and the reading hereof doth now much edify, in all your parishes: though the days havee been when you could say, that 
a 1 admo. p. 24.  in all the order of your service, there was no edification but confusion. And who put this instrument into your ministers hands? Christ in his testament appointed none such. Your church hath also Homily books to build withal, and many edifying canons and ceremonies, such tools the Prel●es have allowed for your building. even the instruments of the foolish shepherd, Za. 11, 15.16. & if you will not beleeu me beleeu your selves which heretofore have complained and written thus, 
b 2 admon to the. Parl pag. 6.7.  No preacher may without great danger of the law utter all the truth comprised in the book of God It is so circumscribed and wrapped within the compass of such statutes, such penalties, such injunctions, such advertisements, such articles, such canons, such sober caveats and such manifold pamphlets that in manner it doth but peep out from behind the screen. The laws of the land. the book of common prayer, the Queen's injunctions, the Commissioners advertisements, the Bishop's canons, Linwoods' provincials, every Bishop's articles in his diocese, my Lord of Canterbury's sober caveats, his licences to preachers, and his high court of prerogative or grave fatherly faculties. these together or the worst of them, (as some of them be too bad) may not be broken or offended against, but with more danger then to offend against the bible. To the subscribing & subscribing again, & th● third subscribing are required: for these preachers & others are indicted▪ are fined, are prisoned, are excommunicated, are banished, and have worse things threatened them. And the Bible that must have no further scope, then by these it is assigned. Is this to profess God's word Is this a reformation? etc. Thus have we your own confession what manner of instruments your church is builded with, and all men may, see, what small cause you have to boast of the word of God, amongst you.  
The matter of the building, is people joined together in the profession of the Gospel. And what manner of people are joined together in your church? are there not all sorts of profane, wicked and irreligious persons, as well as religious and men of better life? and where find you in the scriptures such matter for God's house? The texts 
c 1 Cor, 3, 9 Eph. 2.20.  by you alleged teach far otherweise: for the Church of Corinth, were saints by calling, even called of God unto the fellowship of his son jesus Christ. 1 Cor 1, 2, 9, and the Apostle never said to any profane or confused people ye are God's husbandry. God's building, So for the other text if you had minded either that which is before or after, it might have stayed you from applying it to your church. For the Apostle writing to the 
a Eph 1.1.  Saints, (not to the profane) which were at Ephesus, saith, Now y● are no more strangers and forreners. but citizens with the saints and of the how should of God; 
b Eph 2.19  and after, he showeth how in Christ 
c verse, 21.  all the building coupled together, groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord. But neither are your people saints by calling. neither can you say of your church of England, that all the building (of all the parishes) coupled together, groweth to an holy Temple in the Lord; for yourself here defend not all, but the best only. And we know well, that the m●ltitudes of profane wicked persons and miscreants, mere strangers and forreners, are of the matter of your church; and are built in and with the same (if the word and sacraments do bu●ld among you) even the vilest of the● when they go to the gibbet, as pleasantly as 
d 1 Sam 15.32.  Agag did to his death Now mind with your sel●es, if God have commanded to build his house with the fine Cedar and 
e Ex. 26 15  Sittim trees: & you take the thorns and briers of the wilderness, or wild figtrees of the plain: whether Christ (who 
f Heb. 3.2.  is faithful to him that hath apppointed him, even as Moses was in all his house,) when he shall take a view of all your work, will allow of your labours, and bless you for them, as Moses blessed the builders of the tabernacle. Exod. 39.43. Your first argument therefore is to weak to uphold your church or best assemblies, and the assumption of your profyllogisme is denied.   

The 2 argument,  
2. THose Churches whose true members are only espoused to Christ, a true visible Churches; Ephe. 5.30.32 2. Cor. 11.2.  
But the true members of our best assemblies. are espoused only to Christ. Therefore etc.   

Proof of the assumption,  
They are espoused only to Chrisi. which are endued with true saving faith. Eph. 5 30.31.32. with john. 15.3 4.5.7. &. 17, 20.21.  
But the true members of our best assemblies, are endued with a true saving faith confessed by Mr. johnson in jakob. pag. 7· Look also in the confirmation of the 5. argument following here.  
Therefore etc.   

Answer.  
HEre again you have got an other starting hole, whiles you plead but for the true members of your best assemblies; yet neither tell you us which are your best assemblies, nor who be the true members of them; that how to follow or where to find you we cannot tell. As is 
a Prov. 30.18, 19, 20.  the way of an eagle in the air, such is the way of an adulterous woman, it is hid and cannot be known. But I will see if I can discover your falsehood though I cannot find your footing.  
First I deny that the true members of your best assemblies are espoused only to Christ. for (as the prophet said of Israel,) 
b je, 3.2,  lift up your eyes unto the high placs & behold where you have not played the harlot. Now lest a church doth play the harlot, Christ willeth us to plead with her, 
c Hos 2.2.  that she is not his wife, neither is he her husband. Idolatry is spiritual whoredom, as the Prophets testify, Psa. 106 39 jer. 3.9. Deut. 31.16. but the true members of your best assemblies, commit idolatry in their daily worship according to their Romish leiturgy or book of common prayer, an idol of your own invention. How are they then espoused to Christ alone? Yes they are (say you,) because they are endued with true saving faith I answer; Faith is in the hart, as it is written, with the hart man believeth, Rom. 10.10. The hart no man knoweth but God alone; as again it is written, thou (Lord) only knowest the hearts of all the children of men 1 King, 8, 39, So then I ask you how you know that your members have true faith; your answer must needs be, (unless you w●ll make yourself a God,) you know it not but by their words and works. Well then let us bring these to th' trial; their confession and the●r practise; leaving their faith to God that knows it The confession of the●r faith is set down in their service book, the 12. articles of the Creed. But this Creed the Papists also confess and read in their church; and if it will prove your people to have true faith it will prove theirs to have likewise; & you say no more for England, then for Rome. Again the Apostle saith, there are some which 
d Tit. 1.16  profess that they know God but in works do deny him, and are abominable and disobedient and to every good work reprobate. So then words are not enough, to prove true faith But we must come to the Apostle james his trial, show me thy faith out of thy works; for faith without works is dead. 
jam. 2.18.26.  Now the works of your people are apparent to be evil; they standing in communion or confusion rather with the unclean, profane and, wicked whereby all Gods holy things are defiled; as it is written, Num. 19.22. Hag. 2.14. submitting their souls to Antichristian prelate's and priests, and hearing their voice, contrary to john,) 10, 5. worshipping God in vain, after their own invented service book, which is a high transgression of the second commandment; Exo 20 And these things are general and public; the particular and more private iniquities, will not easily be numbered. Whereas therefore you would persuade us your church is espoused only to Christ, (although her fornicat●ons are so manifest between her breasts, because she saith. she believeth only in Christ; it is with no more colour, then as if 
e Gen 35.29  Bilhah (when she was known to lie with Reuben,) should have pleaded; yet am I an honest woman, and espoused to jaacob only, for my love and hearty affection is towards him alone. But the wise man teacheth us, these be but the tricks of an adulterous woman, she eateth and wipeth her mouth & saith I have done no iniquity. Pro, 30, 20.  
The scriptures which yourself allege; do also make against your church. Eph 5 30. We are members of (Christ's) body. of his flesh and of his bones. F●rst your church can show no covenant that was made between Christ and her, at any time: the gathering and planting of your church having been by the Magistrate's authority: not by the word of Christ, winning men's souls unto his faith, separating them from the unbelievers, and taking them to communion with himself. Secondly, in saying his body, the Apostle excludeth all other bodies; as more plainly appeareth in the other scripture, 2 Cor. 11.2. where he prepared the church as a pure virgin for Christ, which cannot be whiles she defileth herself with others; as doth your church with the abominations of the Papists; companying also in the bed of love, with the Prelates, (whom the better son of you have confessed to be Antichristian) and their inferior priests, who work upon men's consciences by their jurisdiction, ministry, doctrines, canons &c. being as the bridegrooms of your church, not 
a john 3.29  the friends of the bridegroom which stand and hear and rejoice for the bridegrooms voice; for, that Christ should speak and rule, unless it be according to their own canons; they cannot endure.  
The other places in john. 15. & 17. will confirm also that the true members of your best assemblies are not espoused only to Christ For Christ showeth, 
b john 15, 1  that his Father is the husbandman, who caleth and bringeth unto and planteth in him the true vine; all the branches, that is the particular persons of the Church. But the true members of your best assemblies: are as yet the branches of that false Antichristian vine. your confused church of England: not separated from, but living and growing in one stock, body and communion with the idolatrous and profain. So that you cannot say, as did the Israel of God. 
c Psa, 80, 8.  Thou hast brought a vine out of Egypt, thou hast cast out the heathens & planted it. Christ showeth that his branches were 
d ver 2.3.  purged of the Father, by the word spoken unto them; your members are not yet purged or cleansed by the word of Christ, from their idolatries, and profane communion with the imps of Satan,. The word of life the word of separation from the serpent & his seed; hath not yet sounded in the ears, or at least, not sunk into the hearts of your people. Christ branches 
e ver. 5,  bring forth much fruit, through their abiding in him, being able without him to do nothing: your branches bear little fruit but unto themselves; and (as Moses foretold) 
f Deu 32·23  their grapes are grapes of gall their clusters bitter, for the public idolatries used in your assemblies, after the manner of the mother of Rome. show that your vine is of the vine of 
g Reu, 11, 8  Sodom. Christ prayed only 
h joh 17, 20 21.  for them that should beleeu in him through the word, that they all might be one in the Father and the Son, as the Father in him, and he in the Father; but the true members of your best assemblies, are one with the world, for whom Christ would 
i ver, 9,  not pray; being on spiritual body, & joined in communion with the whole multitude of profane and wicked of the land; That strange it is you should read the scriptures and not discern, how far you are from being united with Christ, who as himself was not of the world, 
a ve 14, 16,  so neither are his people, but chosen and separated out of the same.  
Whereas you bring no proof that your people have true faith, but by Mr, johnsons' confession; it showeth how distressed and helpless your estate is. Yet do you great wrong to Mr. Io, (as the reader may see in the place that you cite;) For although considering them apart from the constitution of your Church he thinketh by the appearance of the knowledge faith and fruits of divers. that they may well be thought in regard of God's election in Christ, to be heirs of salvation, and in that respect true Christians: yet in respect of the constitution of your Church, he saith, they can not be judged true Christian. Now we deal against your church in regard of the constitution thereof; not doubting but God hath many elect heirs of sal●ation among you, which we leave unto him that knows them. Your argument then from Mr johnsons' confession, is faulty, and agreeth not with the rules of right reasoning; for whereas he limiteth his judgement of them, showing in what respect it is & plainly excepteth their church-constitution: you bear your reader in hand as if he granted it without limitation? and that too, according to the Scriptures in your first proposition, which evidently do concern the church's constitution. You may much abuse any man's words, if what he speaketh respectively you will take and allege as spoken absolutely. So your proof faileth you.  
In the end you refer us, to the confirmation of your 5, Argument following to the Answer whereof I also refer the reader  
Now though I have answered first to the assumption or second part of your argument on proof whereof you do insist: yet the first part also shallbe better examined, ere I let it pass: Those churches (you say) whose true members are only espoused to Christ. are true visible churches. By true members I conceive you do mean. (not as the truth is, all baptised and so retained in your church, but) some few choice persons, or forward professors, among whom there is an imaginary brotherhood, and separation from the other profane in your parishes; though invery deed they stand all one body. If thus you intent (as the proof of your assumption plainly intimateth you do,) then offer you violence to the similitude of marriage or espowsall which all men know is not with some few members of a woman's body, as her fingers, or hands &c, but with the whole woman, who giveth herself by covenant unto her spouse or husband. And as in civil marriage so it is in spiritual; for Israel of old. when the Lord became a 
b Ier 31.32  husband unto them, did not some of them, but 
c Exo, 19 Deut, 5.3.22. &. 29.10.11.12,  all the multitude generally make covenant with their God: the scriptures also which you alleg, Eph, 5.2 Cor 11 speak of the whole body of the church, not of a few select members of the same. For though it be true of every visible church, that some only are elect howsoever all be called; yet the discerning of this belongeth to God alone, and not to us; who esteem of persons according to their outward covenant profession, and walking. Your reason then seems to be like this; That woman's ●hose true members,) as namely. her eye, and ear. and some of her fingers) are espoused only to such a man. She is his true and lawful wife. But the true members of N, (howsoever her whole body in general is coupled with an adulterer; and the most of her members are affected and wholly given over to that adulterer, and her pretended husband they hate, & never made covenant with,) are espoused only to such a man therefore. etc. If this reason be not absurd. let him that readeth judge; and if such absurdity be not employed in your argument, show if you can in your next writing; for if you strive to avoid this, you will fall into another evil as shall then be manifested.   

The 3. argument  
IN what churches soever, is such an ordinance of God in public use and for● by which there is ordinarily made an undoubted resurrection or quickening from the death of sin unto the life of grace, and a new birth: they are true visible churches of Christ. jam, 1, 18, 1 Pet, 1 23.  
But in the best of our assemblies is such an ordinance of God etc. Therefore etc.  
The assumption is manifest. because by that ordinance of preaching which is in public use and force. there is ordinarily made an undoubted new birth; seeing there do ordinarily appear in many. the undoubted fruits and testimonies of God's spirit, after the public and ordinary preaching of the word. in our best assemblies.   

Answer.  
THE first part of this your argument seemeth to imply an error; as that a church is first gathered & constituted of an unregenerate profane and worldly people; over which are set Pastors and Teachers, who by preaching the Gospel do beget them or some of them unto th● faith and quicken them from the death of sin &c which quickening or new birth, is a proof that they are a true visible church. This course I find to be contrary unto the scriptures; which I would thus manifest. When the Lord jesus would show mercy to the world, and call his elect out of the same, he sent 
a Mar 16.25 Ep 4, 11  Apostles Prophets and Evangelists to preach his salvation to all peoples. The people to whom they preached, wer● not (for the most part) churches of God. but assemblies of heathens and idolaters; as for example, the men 
b Act. 14 8 11.14. &c  of Lystra of 
c Act. 18, 6 10. 1● i 1 Co 12.2.  Corinth; of Athens where Paul preached 
d Act. 17. 2●.32.34  in Mars street; and other like places. By meane● of this manner preaching many people were regenerate or be●ne a new quickened from the death of s●●●e. a●d tu●●ed from idols to the living God. And being thus begotten unto God, they were 
a A●t, 19.9  separated from others that believed not. and joined together into a holy communion, not having other officers over them for a while till men were fitted for such a work. Therefore oft times the Apostles departed to other places and left the Evangelists to 
b Tit, 1, 5,  redress things that remained, and to ordain them Elders in every city, as the Apostles appointed them These Elders, called generally 
c Phil. 1.1  Bishops or Overseers, had charge 
d Act. 20.17.28 1 Pe ●, 1.2.  of their particular flocks, and might not go from them as did the Apostles. but attend and feed them: These now could not properly be said to beget their people to the faith, (as the Apostle noteth 
e 1 Cor 4.15  to the Corinthians) but to feed and instruct them; and therefore are not called Fathers, but 
f 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  Feeders, or Pasters. and Pedagogues. Child-leaders or Instructeurs. From which I gather, that people must regenerate and borne again, before they may be admitted into any particular church, or have officers over them; and that ordinary ministers, which feed their flocks, cannot be said to beget them, as is the common vaunt of you Ministers in England. which me thinks even reason itself might show you: For you that are now over your parishes, how found you your people at first, a church or no church? If you say a church than you begat them not, but entered upon other men's labours that were before you if you say they were not a church, than you condemn the state of your parishes as they were planted, before you were their Ministers. Now then to come to your proposition; In whats●ever churches (that is assemblies. for so I understand you to use the werd generally, 
h Act. 19.32.39  as the 
g 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉,  Scripture sometime useth Ecclesia, (is such an ordinance of God in public use and force, by which there is ordinarily made an undoubted new birth etc. they are true visible churches of Christ: This I deny; for in the assemblies of the heathens in the Apostles days (as before is proved) there was such an ordinance of God sometimes in public use and force, as by it ordinarily there was made an undoubted new birth; as th' fruit of th' Apostles preaching sheweth· yet were not those assemblies of heathens, true visible churches of Christ. but such only as were converted to God and separated from the rest that believed not; and joined in a holy communion together were true visible churches.  
Whereas you assume, that in the best of your assemblies is such an ordinance of God &c this also I deny for your ministers are not God's ordinance, he hath not called or sent them, they execute no lawful office in your assemblies. But your assumption (you say) is manifest, because by that ordinance ●f preaching which is in public use and force. there is ordinarily made an undoubted new birth. I answer, first in very many of your assemblies there is no such ordinance of preaching in public use, as you here b●ast of; but bare reading only: yet those assemblies are by the Constitutions of your church, to be reputed as true visible churches as the other. Secondly in those other other where preaching is, I deny that there is ordinarily mad● an undoubed new birth; Your proof is, because th●re do ordinarily appear in many, the undoubted fruits and testimonis of God's spirit etc. I answer, first if this be so, yet what will these many, help the mo●t and greatest ●umber, in whom such fruits appear not? When many of the hethens believed the Apostles word, did their belief bring the other that believed not, into the church did not the Apostles separate the believers from the rest. and 
a 2 Cor. 6, 14.7.  teach them to come from among them? Yet you for the faith of some, will unite all the assembly unto Christ and his church, contrary to the Apostles practise, and to all the scriptures. Secondly, I deny that there doth ordinarily appear in many such undoubted fruits of God's spirit after your ordinary preaching as for which we may esteem them true visible churches. Some fruits I kn●w there do appear; so do there among the Papists: yea they take occasion for such things to 
b Pap. supto the K. reason of relig. 22.20.  reproach you. that there follow not so many good works after your preaching as after their doctrine; but among neither of you: are those fruits seen, wh●ch by the testimony of scriptures will prove you true visible churches. So we have here but your bare affirmation to rest upon: and though I might thus end with as bare a denial: t●l you bring further proof, yet for to help the reader. I will show that ordinarily there appeareth not a new birth after your preaching. Because of your public idolatrous estate, where●n you stand subject to Antichristian Prelate's and canons whiles you have your public worship after the Romish idolatrous manner, and are still coming led in one body with the profane, and serpent's seed, with many other evils among you: which plainly show you want the new birth and are still in your old mother's womb. This the scriptures which you allege in your proposition will confirm; for the Apostles show, jam, 1, 18 1 Pet 1, 23. that Christ's church is a people begotten of God with the word of truth; that is the 
c Col, 1, 5,  Gospel: but your church was first begotten. gathered, constituted, ordered, and is still continued, by the Magistrate's word and authority; which if it did not enforce the people. the estate wherein you now stand, would soon be changed; your church dissolved, and either be better or Worse. And where you learned so to enforce f●●th, and constrein men to be members of your church I can not tell; unless you follow Mahomet's doctrine who 
d Alcoran, ●hap 18 & 19  taught that men should be compelled to the faith, by war and sword.  
Again, the Apostle addeth this for a testimony and end of our new birth, that we should be as the first fruit● of God's creatures This men are not, till they be as was Israel, hallowed to the Lord; Ier, 2, 3, which was by separation from the world Levit, 20.26, and a willing covenant with the Lord Exod. 19.5, 6.8; D●ut, 26, 17, 18, 19, And that the like must be of us Christians, an other scripture confirmeth, saying, 
e Rui● ●  These are they w●i●h are not defiled with women, for th●y are virgins; (this implieth a separation from the world; ●h●s● f●llow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth, (this argueth a covenant and communion with Chri●t: and in the next words. both points are repeated.) these are 1 bought from men. being the first fruits 2 ●nto G●d and to the Lamb: after this followeth the fruit, 
* ver, 5.  and in their mouth 〈◊〉 found no guile, for they are without spot before the throne of God. Whereas therefore you have stood so long against us for separation and would maintain a mere confusion of all sorts of people in a C●●rch, upon an imaginary separation made in the clouds of your own fancies whiles outwardly and indeed, you are one body with the wicked: you are undoubtedly ●ot yet borne a new; your Church hath not strength to bring forth: your ministers are unskilful midwives; and the saying of the Prophet concerning the people of Ephraim, is verified also v●ō your people be is an unwise son. else would be not stand still such a time. even in the breaking forth of the children. Hos 13, 13.   

The 4. Argument.  
IN what churches soever all things needful to salvation by public authory●y and g●n●rall approbation, are ordinarily and publicly taught they are true visible Churches.  
But in the best of our assemblies are etc.  
Therefore true visible churches.   

Proof of the assumption,  
In what churches soever are ordinarily and publicly taught. the doctrines wh●●by the people of God were converted and saved in the time of Christ and his Apostles. in those churches are all things needful to salvation taught. But in th● b●st of our assemblies are &c, Ergo etc. Proof of this assumption appeareth out of Luk. 1.77, 78. with Mar. 1, 4.15. Luk. 24, 47. Act. 2.37, 38, 41. Act, 11, 17 18. Act 16.30.31, and 20.21.  
If it be objected that the points in question between us. be needful to salvation: it is thus disproved.  
All things needful to salvation are clearly set down in the scriptures to the understanding of the spiritual 1 Cor 2.15. Dan 12.10. Pro. 8 9 ●nd the things that are not open to the spiritual, are not needful to salvation.  
But the p●ynts in question between us, are not clearly s●t down in scripture to the understanding of the spiritual; as appeareth both by thousand of minister's and people of the church of England and o●her foreign churches among ●h●me are the chiefest lights of this age as Calvin, Beza, junius, Fiscat●r. Gualther. Zanchius with others, which were undoubtedly spiritual; are of contrary judgement to the Separatists as also in that it is not agreed vp●n among themselves. what is the discipline and order required by the word in ●ue●y p●ynt, nor in ●any other points of difference among them. namely touching the differences of the office of Doctor and Past●r etc.   

Answer.  
FIrst wishing the reader to remember what is answered to the fi●st part of your former Syllogism; I will with out further repetition, proceed proceed in answer of this; where the gro●nd and proposition of your first argument is unperfect, so that which you build thereon is unsound. For whereas you speak of all things n●●●full to s●lauation &c. to be publicly taught: you should have added also, are observed or done; according to Christ's saying 
job. 15, 14  ye are my friends if ye do whatsoever I command you. If men hear truth taught and obey it not, it avails them nothing Therefore as the Apostle saith, 
‡ 〈◊〉 ●. 22  be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only. deceiving yourselves.  
Your assumption also is denied: for in your best assemblies all things needful to salvation be not taught, much less done or practised. To give an instance; to be separated from the unbelievers, and to be joined together unto a holy communion and church; is needful to sal●ation; 2 Cor, 6, 17.18. Act, 1 47, Isa 65.9, Reu 21, 24. This is neither taught not practised in your assemblies but oppugned by all the cavil you can. Your proof of the a●s●m●tion is, a comparison of your church with those in Christ's time and th' Apostles. I answer you again, your church is not like those in doctrine or in practice of things needful to salvation.  
Then you say, the proof of this assumption appeareth out of Luk. 1.77. etc. This is a strange proof of your assumption, which is this, But in the best of our assemblies are taught etc. Doth Luk 1, 77. show what is taught in your assemblies? and why doth not Mat, 15, 9 and 23, 16 17, etc. show what is taught there also? The places that you allege show what doctrine was taught in the jewish and Apostolic churche●; not what is taught in yours. It must be therefore your own writings, sermons, doctrine, practice and estate. that must prove your a●sumption. But you will say (perhaps) your doctrines and practices. agree with those mentioned in these scriptures. That I deny; and would therefore that you should have made application of the particulars: Which because you have not done, I will do for you.  
You allege Luk, 1, 77.78. with Mar, 1.4.15 where knowledge of salvation is giu●n unto (Gods) people. by remission of their sins, through the tender mercy of our God etc. & this was done, by preaching the baptisime of amendment of life, for remission of sins. and belief in the Gospel. So in Luk. 24, 47 repentance and remission of sins should be preached in Christ's name among all nations. The same things are also taught in all the other places which you cite, as the reader may see in the texts. Now these things (you will say) are taught and observed among you. I show the contrary thus.  
First you give knowledge of salvation, (though faslly) unto other then to his, that is to God's people; in as much as you give the sacraments, which are the seals of our salvation unto the profane and wicked and their seed thus prostituting the most holy things. even Christ h●mselfe, unto hat●rs a●d bl●sphemers of God, (a● you cann ●r deny but a number of your church are) and such as make a mock of religion; and herein you arduity of high sacrilege against God.  
Secondly, the doctrine of repentance. is not truly taught nor obeyed in your Ch●rch. For unto true repentance is required, 1 a knowledge or notice given and taken of sins; Isa 58, 1, Lam, 2, 14 & 3 39, 40. 2 an acknowledgement or confession made of sins, (as a testimony of true sorrow of hart,) with ask mercy Leu 4, 13, 14. &c, & 5, 5.6, Psal. 32, 3, 5, 3 and a forsaking of sins, or amendment of life. Prou. 28, 13, Psal, 28.21.2 Cor. 7, 11. Eze. 18, 21.  
N●w the sins of your church have not by your Ministers been signifie● to your people; as namely their confuse estate and commixture with the wicked; though it be a sin every where reproved in the scriptures. as before is showed.  
The great transgressions which your people daily commit in Gods publ●ck worship, while, you have your own wilworship, and stinted prayers with●●t warrant from Chr●sts testament, read in place of God's true spiritual service; these are not preached against, reproved or cast out by your ministers doctrine; but chose, they have by word & writing sought to m●inteyn the same. The seru●le subjection that both ministers and people, are in, under your Lords the Bishops and their courts; is not disco●ere● by your minister's to be a sin and bondage which you must depart from, if you will be subject to that only Lord & master Chr●st though secretly they have sought to undermine that jurisdiction of Bishops wh●ch how ca● they do, if it be of Christ; or how may a●y sta●d under it, if it be of Antichrist?  
This being the sinful state of your church, as we well know. (and you are never able to justify yourselves;) your ministers not teaching repentanc for these things, nor being suffered by your Church to speak against them, teach not repentance truly. For, It is not enough to cry out of Idolatry, or to preach repentance from sins in general; for so they do among the Papists, but the particular sins of every people and pers●n mu●t be reproved; yea every sin that is seen and discerned, or else your preachers do not their duty. God's word teacheth u● t●at ●f a man walk in any one sin though he do not all he shall n●t live. but die the de●th Ezek. 18, 11, 13. W●en Gibeah was given ove● 
* judg. 19 ●2, &▪  to the Sin of Sodom, if the Priests and prophets should have preached against idolatry, swearing, breaking of the Sabbath, and such like evils. and not against that particular filthiness which the people followed should they have preached repentance truly? When Israel followed 
‡ 1 Kin: 12 28, 29.30.  jereboams calves at Dan and Bethel, if the ministers than had preached against Sodomy, whoredom, drunkenness, and the like, and not cried out against that present idol worship, but pleaded rather for it: should they have t●u●ht repenatnce truly? Even thus it is with your best min●ster●, they will th●●de● out in their pulpits, against Popery, and idolatry in ●e●er●ll against theft, whoredom, pr●de, covetousness, and m●●y o●her inquiries, but the sin which cleaveth so fast to the bones of ●o●r Church, t●e heinous enormities in God's worship amongst you▪ these they meddle not with, neither upon pain of excommunicati●● draw the people to repentance for them; as after I will further show. Perhaps now and then they will glance at the Bps. or some other corruptions, but bring the people from under these iniquities, they do not, nay they plead for them rather, and cry o●t upon us, which have forsaken so gross abominations.  
Now there being no notice given by the ministers, or taken by the people of the si●ns wherein they live: the other two parts of true repentance do also fail among you: for far you be from confessing your sins, which though you offer the sacrifice of fools, 
Eccl. 4, 17,  yet will you not know that you do evil, and most far from amending them, when with so high a hand you do maintain them: although the testimony and sufferings of us your despised and persecuted brethren, against them, have sounded in your ears now man●e a day. Thus teach they not repentance aright.  
As for faith it cannot be sound, and true, where it hath not ground o● the covenant and promise of God: God's covenant and promise's of salvation, you have not without repentance, as Christ said, 
* Luk. 13, 3 5,  Except ye repent. you shall all likewise p●rish for surely God will wound the 
‡ Psa, 68, 21,  hairy ●ate of him that walketh in his sins. To preach faith therefore. and a●ply justification by faith, to an unrepentant people, is to profane that holy doctrine, and turn the grace of God into licentiousness. But to give the seals of the righteousness of faith, (baptism, and the Lords supper) to the wicked blasphemers, irreligious, and to their seed, it is a sin of sin● for which your ministers shall give an heavy account to Christ at his appearing. as have counted the precious blood of his testament an vnholi● thing. and washed and fed therewith e●en dogs and swine, as the scripture 
” Ma●, 7.6  calleth such ungodly person's. And thus you have not truly taught among you either repentance from dead works or faith towards God, which are the doctrine of the beginning of Christ and the very foundation, as the 
† Heb. 6, 1  Apostle saith.  
I will now also compare the practice of the Apostles (in the plac● which you cite) with yours, that the reader may see how your right eye is blinded, to bring scripture so plain against yourselves. In Act. 2, 37, &c, the manner of gathering and planting that church‘ is thus described. There was first the word preached. by the Apostles, verse 14 &c which being heard, pricked the hearts of the people, verse, 37. there was repentance taught (not for adultery, theft, worshipping of Idols o● the like, whereof it may be that people was not known to be guilty. but) for their particular trespass in 
* so after more plainly Act 1, 13 14.19, 26,  refusing of jesus Christ, into whose name they must be baptised, if they would be saved, verse 38, than followed a plain separation from such as frowardly resisted the truth. vers. 40, and none were baptised or joined to the church but such as gladly received the word verse· 41. After this followed a cont●newing (notwithstanding the imminent peril of trouble and persecution for the truth sake,) in the Apostles doctrine, and fellowship, and breaking of bread, and prayer●; verse 42, If you had walked in this primitive churches steps you should before the constituting of your Church, have preached unto the poor ignorant and idolatrous Papists, (which was the general face of the land at Q Mary's death,) repentance for their sins in all their idolatries. w●ll worships, and superstitions, subjection to Antichrist, his prelacy, priesthood, and government. etc. To such as had their hearts pricked with your doctrine, you should have showed the true way of the Gospel faith, and holy walking therein You should have taught them a separation from the profane and obstinate; and have gathered into the Church, such only as gladly received the word; and with them you should have walked in a holy communion and practice of Christ's ordinances, though Princes and Parliaments, tho●gh men and Angels, should have forbidden, & threatened you for it. Thus had your church been the daughter of th●t mother church in Ier●salem, whereas now by neglecting this pattern, and retaining the Popish confuse multitude, and a great part of their ministry and worship; you have imitated B●bylon ●e mother of fornications, a●d ●re as unlike Zion, as you are like yourselves.  
The objection which you feared, and therefore would prevent with answer.: is yet of more weight than will be eased by your syllogism; the a●sumption whereof I deny For the true constituting of a Church by the word perached, calling men to a willing holy covenant with God separating them from the ways of Satan & Antichrist. his false & idoatr●●s worship, priesthood and government. uniting them together in the communion of the true faith, and bond of love and peace, (which are the controversies between you and us,) these points are clearly set down in scriptures to the understanding of the spiritual, as the history of all the Bible, and the practice of the Apostles, and primitive churhes already alleged do plainly show and I am sure you will not deny, but they were spiritual.  
Whereas you would ●roue, they are not clearly set down to the understand of the spiritual, because thousand of ministers and people of the church of Engl●nd, are of contrary judgement to us: first we have many testimonies of your own minister's for the things that we defend against you as in 
* pag. 2.3. answer, to Mr Held Mr, jak.  this and other books we have manifested. Secondly, if we had no such testimony, yet what do you but make yourselves judges in your own cause, that though we bring never so plain evidence against you from the word, yet if you see it not, or will not see. it must not be needful for salvation. More unsound and popish doctrine hath seldom been taught But I leave vpon you the saying of Christ unto the Pharisees, If you ●ere blind ye should not have sin. but now ye say, WE SEE therefore your sin remaineth, john, 9, 11.  
And whereas you further bring against us, foreign churches, and special persons the chiefest lights of this age, first mind whither this be not also ● ground of Popery, so to press humane authority: and whether the Papists cannot for many of the●r heresies, allege the ancient fathers, (the chiefests lights of their ages) whom yourselves I suppose will not deny but to be spiritual, seeing their testimonies are often alleged by your church in pulpits and in print.  
Secondly, this your dealing is such, as both the better sort of the late Fathers (as Augustine for example, 
* August centra Maxim l. 3 c. 14 Nec ego nicenā Sinodun tibi, nec tu mihi Arimi nemsē debes ●bijcere scriptuarum authoritatibus res etc.  who was of m●nde that counsels, Bishops etc. ought not to be objected, for trial of controversies, but the holy scriptures only,) and the very superstitious Popelings themselves have condemned: saying that 
‡ 
Panormitan de electio et elect Potest.  
●. signis:   we are rather to beleeu ●ne private faithful man then a whole Council. and the Pope (himself) if a man have better a●thorety & reason on his side.  
Thirdly your objection and pleading against us, is much like as if the jews should have objected against Christianity. thus: It is not needful to salvation to beleeu that jesus who was crucified is the Christ: for than it would be clearly set down in scripture to the understanding of the spiritual Dan 12, 10, Prou, 8, 9, but that it is not for the thousands of priests and people of Israel, God's own people, among whom are the chiefest lights of this age, the Rabbins, expounders of the law etc. which are undoubtedly spiritual; are of contrary judgement to you his disciples, job 7 47, 48, 49.52.  
Fourthly, (as I have before answered) foreign churches, and the lights in them, have clearly seen the things we stand for, and do asse●t with us, touching separation from Antichristianisme, gathering into and walking in a holy communion of Saints, and other points of greatest moment between you and us. as their Harmony of Confessions, besides other particular books many. do testify. If you object their particular judgement of your church's estate, I answer, that is not needful to salvation therefore they may miss in it; and yet be spiritual: for if men i● their own churches profess and walk in the truth so far as God gives them to see; and think better of other churches than they do deserve, such errors even the most spiritual are subject unto.  
It was clearly revealed in scriptures that the Gentiles should be called under the Gospel, Deut 32.43 Gen. 12, 3 Psal. 67. &, 117 Isa. 11.10 Chr●st himself plainly confirmed and commanded it, Mat, 28.19, john, 10, 16, Act 1, 8. Yet the Apostle Peter himself and many other spiritual men, perceived it not till in more special and particular weise it was to them revealed Act. 10.14, 28, 34, 3●, &, 11, 2, ●, 18. As Peter and many other godly then, failed in esteeming worse of the Gentiles than they should: so learned and godly men now may fail, in esteeming better of your estate than it doth deseru●.   

The 5. Argument.  
Whatsoever church is the mother of the faithful, is a true visible church, but the best of our assemblies are etc. Ergo true visible churches.  
The preposition is true. because that regeneration and new birth, is only ordirarily wrought by the word preached, Rome, 10.8.17. jam. 1.18. 1, Pet. 1, 23. which is only and ordinarily found in the visible Church. Gal, 5, 26. 1 john. ●. 5.  
The assumption is true, because many are ordinarily new borne in our best assemblies, by the ordinance of preaching in public use and force; as appear by Mr johnsons' foresaid confession, as also by the means of the causes and means ordained by God to beget faith in the hearers, and efficacy, thereof, Esa. 55, 11, Rom. 10.17, and lastly, ●y the infallible effects of faith, and fruits of the spirit, appearing in the true members of our best assemblies, Gal. 5, 6, 22.   

Answer.  
HEre you seem to bring a new argument, though it be but the old in a new coat: for take away this mantle wherewith your Major is clothed, The mother of the faithful; and all the rest willbe but regeneration and new birth. wrought as (you say) by the preaching in your best assemblies. Which things we heard in your third argument, and there refuted. As you here urge them again, I further answer, first to your proposition. Whatsoever church (say you) is the mother of the faithful, is a true visible church But Israel (say I) in her idolatrous estate, was the mother of the faithful; yet was she not in that estate a true visible church: therefore your proposition is not true  
That Israel then was the mother of the faithful, appeareth by the words of the Lord Plead with your mother Hos, 2, 2, That they which were willed thus to plead, 
* ver 1  were the faithful appeareth by the●r names Ammi & Ruhamah, that is, My people and she that hath obtained mercy. That yet notwithstanding this mother was not a true visible church, appeareth by the Plea to be made against her, 
‡ ver, 2.  She is not my wife, neither am I her husband: her estate being (as elsewhere is said) 
” 2 Chr, 15 3,  without the true God; and her children that continued in her idolatry, should 
† Host 2, 4.  obtain no mercy, Thus you see a church may be said to be the mother of the faithful, and yet not be a true Church of God.  
You would confirm the proposition to be true. because regeneration and new birth is ordinarily wrought by the word preached, which is one lie and ordinarily, found in the visible church. I answer, the word preached is to be found also in the false church; as among Papists, Anabaptists, Anabaptists etc. as ordinary if not more ordinary than ●n many of you● assemblies: and although there be not such or so many truths ●aught among them as are among you, yet the word that is taught, hath effect for sanctification of life, in as great measure, as ordinarily appeareth in your Church of Engl.; where so much profannes reigneth, as all men see and know.  
The church of Rome. is as yourselves profecie, a fal●e church: yet doubt I not, neither do I think you doubt but sundry children have been borne unto God by that harlot. The church of En●land, it as we profess; a false church, your Ministry also fal●e: yet God which brought light out of darkness, hath brought forth, (I doubt not,) and saved many of his dear children among you. But let not thi● embolden the rest to continue with you in your false estate: lest they find no mercy with the Lord, because they be children of fornications.  
To your assumption than I answer, as you first set it down. I grant it; yet will not your conclusion follow for it may be a mother of the faithful and yet no true visible church; for the reason foreshowed, But as you afterward explain yourself saying; the assumption is true because many a●e ordinarily new borne, etc. I deny it thus to be true, because neither is a new birth ordinarily to be had among you neither have you God's ordinance of preaching in public use and force. If your people were truel●e regenerate they would not sin; mystic me not, I know the remainders of sin dwell in the best men, and draw them to that they neither 
* Rome 7 15  would not aught, but as th● Apostle saith, 
‡ 1 joh 3.9.  He that is borne of God sinneth not. And seeing so many and great sins reign in your best assemblies. how can you say you are regenerate? for I have before manifested, that ordinarily people are kept and continued among you, in an unholy communion with the wicked and irreligious, and nourished with superstition and idolatry: these and the like things are no tokens of true regeneration.  
Mr johnsons' confession, is 
” pag. 39,  before treated of: and will not import that which you would infer.  
The causes and means ordained by God to beget faith, are not by Esa, 55 11, R●m, 10.17. proved to be among you For there is spoken of the word going out of the Lords mouth: but your minister's are not the Lords mouth, because they ha●e not from him their calling; 
† Rom. 10.15.  sending and authority to preach, b●t have it from his enemy Antichrist, and (as the Apostle saith) how shall th●y preach except they be sent? Neither are they as the Lord's mouth: because they separate not the precious from the vile. jer. 15 19  
Neither are the infallible effects of faith &c. proved by G●l. 5, 6, ●2. to be in the true members of your best assemblies: For seeing faith is there 
* ver, 6.  said to work by love, and there is no love of Christ, unless men 
‡ joh 14. 1●· & 15.10  keep his commandments, and his command●ments are not kept in your idolatrous assemblies: it cannot be affirmed that you love the Lord, if so you continue continue in sin: or that you have true faith. But rather, seeing the contrary works of the flesh; which the Apostle there mentioneth. 
* Ga', 5, ●9 20. ●1.  adultery. fornication, &c, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred etc. contentions. seditions heresies, etc. are found in the true members of your church, (for all among you are baptised, and all baptised are true members;) you are more rightly to be reputed unregenerate and unsanctified, in that your sinful and confused estate. Neither have you Christ's 
‡ 1 Cor. 5,  power in your best assemblies to cast out the wicked from among you: but they are fostered. f●d, and blessed. with your word, prayers, sacraments, etc. and such as abstain from your idolatry and from communion with the wicked; you hate, reproach, excommunicate and persecute: that your church, is indeed, a mother to the profane. But a stepmother to the faithful.   

The 6, argument,  
THose Churches for whom the Churches of God rejoice. are true Churche● 2. Thes. 1.4.  
But our best assemblies are such, for whom the churches of God rejoice.   

Ergo.  
The reason of the proposition is, because the churches of God have the spirit of discerning; a true church and ministry from a false; as joh 10.27, 5. Ma● 24, 24 1 Cor. 14 32. and 10. 15· 1 joh. 4 1·S  
The assumption is true; because all the churches of God, rejoice, in our best assemblies; and have given us the right hand of fellowship and testimony of a tru●●hurch; having joined our public confession with their Harmony.   

Answer.  
THIS argument is one and the same, with the third of your first Constlerations, save that it hath gotten the fashion of a syllogism. The in sufficiency of this reason, I have there showed, and thither do refer the reader. Further here I answer, that you turn the testimony of the reformed churches, to your best advantage, yet neither with equity, nor good success For they joy not for your best assemblies, more than for your worst. but for your Church in general, and the confession of the same. They rejoice for every Bishop, Priest and Deacon, and for every Parish that maketh such confession. as Bishop jewel in his Apology hath set down: Part of which Apology they have united with their Harmony. And why bring you them as approving your best assemblies only. Your Lords the Prelates may truly say you do them wrong: to apply unto yourselves the applause which other churches give to their Apology. They will tell you in your own words, the churches of God have the spirit of discerning a true church and Ministry from a false. But the reformed church's have discerned the national church of England, (whereof the Archbishop of Cant· is Pastor● to be a true church; they have discerned the Diocesan Bishops' in England as well as the Parish Priests, to be true Ministers; and rejoice as well for their Sees, as for your Parishes, having joined these all alike in their Harmony And what will you (that suffer s● many things for separating in your ch●rch. as yo● s●yd) answer to your right reverend Fathers, against whom like unnatural children, yo● hau● striven so long, and would have them with their jurisdiction ●ut out of your church th●t the P●r●sh priest or Deacon m●ght Lord it alone.  
More particularly I answer: your first propostion is unsound, & cannot be pro●ed from the scripture you allege 2 Th●s. 1.4. from which text yo● must conclude on this fashion. P●ul and Silvanus and Timotheu● rejoiced of the Thesalonians in other churches of G●d, because of their patience and faith in all persecutions etc. Therefore the reformed churche● rejoicing for the church of England. it must needs be a true church. The consequence is denied. True churches may err in their judgement of an other church, especially if the● be not rightly informed of the stat● thereof? as the reformed churches are not by that your Apology. Moreover he that mindeth the things recorded of that church, 1 Thes. 1, 3, 6, 7, 9 etc. and the different estate to be seen in your church: may soon perceive their is no l●ke cause of joy for you ●s for them; that if there be a l●ke effect, it is in error.  
The reason of the proposition, is no better confirmed by the scriptures you allege: For when Chr●●t saith john. 10, 27, 5. M● sheep h●ar my voice and they will not follow a stranger; doth he send his sheep to other flocks, to try their shepherds by; or if I see my shepherd to be a th●ef, a hireling, a wolf? m●st I commit my soul unto h●m, because other shepherd's w●ll give him the right hand o● fellowship? In the other scriptures, say n●t the Apostles to the particular churches. and persons, 
* 1 Cor, 10, 15.  judge ye what I sa●? 
‡ 1 joh 4 1.  try ye th● sp●rit and believe not every spirit; But you would not have ourselves to judge or try, but to send over sea, and hear what other churches judge; if they approve we must not disallow. You may as well bid us. put out our own eyes. that other men may lead us; and as soon will we follow you in that, as in this your popish counsel. We have learned to live by 
” Hab, 2.5  our own faith. and know that 
† Gal. 6.5.  every man shall bear h●s own b●rden, and answer for himself to God.  
But you will tell us, if we can judge and discern the true church: others can do it also and better. I answer, I may err judgement, & so may others, even whole churches, therefore let every man look how he judgeth, and how he dependeth on other men: and let every man's judgement be tried by the scriptures. For this cause we say unto you; seeing we have fought for the judgement of other churches, but can get no answer. procure you some reasons from them, in defence of your church, ministry, worship, and ecclesiastical government: and if by God's word they can justify those things, and evince that we have done evil to depart from you: we will return unto you. Otherwise if they rejoice neu●r so m●ch for your estate: we are ver●ly persuaded, that both they and you have more caus● to mourn, for the many abominations that are am●ng 〈◊〉  
To conclude, consider in an example, the weight of your argument; for by the like re●son the envious ministers in Paul's time, might thus ha●e justified themselves  
That ministry and ministration for which the Apostles of Christ rejoice, is true to be obeyed, and continued in. But our ministry and ministration is such as for it the Apostle Paul rejoiceth, yea and will rejoice Philip ● 16.18.  
If you Answer the Apostle rejoiced for the preaching of Christ, not forth envious affection of the preachers, who might be damned themselves, notwithstanding their true doctrine: it is true. And so mind I for the reformed churches. They rejoice for the many truths you profess against Popery, (as we also do the like,) yet may you nevertheless perish for your false constitution, idolatrous worship, popish hierarchy and other transgressions that are among you. Amend your lives therefore, and turn your feet into the ways of peace, for if you rely upon man, an● make ●lesh your arm; and will not he●r the word of the Lord that condemneth your iniquities. you sh●ll perish in your sins, & other church's shall not be able to excuse of s●ue you    

ARGUMENTS That the PREACHERS of the best assemblies of the church of ENGLAND, are true ministers of Christ. I  
TH● pr●achers after whose public & powerful doctrine, of the word do ordinarily follow repentance, conversion to God, saving faith in Christ, love to the brothers, and o●he● fruits of the spirit Gal. 5, 6, 22. in the hearers, are true ministers of God and of the visible ch●rc●:  
But ●fter ●he doctrine of God's word taught by the preachers of our best assemblies, do ordinarily appear the fruits of the spirit in the hearers.  
Therefore th● preachers of our best assemblies, are true ministers of Christ.  
The proposition is proved, because only the word that God doth send in the 〈◊〉 o● his ministers, is ordinarily effectual for these things jer. 23, 22, Esa. 55 11. Mat, 7, 20, Luk 1, 76 joh. 10.1, 2. 1 Cor, 9 1. ●, & 4, 15.  
Th● assumption is proved by the answer to the assumption of the 4 argume●● 〈◊〉 th● churche●.  

Answer.  
OUR separation is from your Church consisting of many assemblies all compact into o'er bod●e, and from all your Ministry both prelacy and priesthood. We cannot tell which assemblies or ministers be best; for they that seem best may prove worst, because they most deceive the simple: the wolf that comes in a sheep's coat, is no whit better than he that cometh in his native hue: but he may do more harm, in that he is disguised. Reason would persuade us, that the Bishops are the preachers of your best assemblies, for they have greatest dignity, fatherhood and authority in your church: they preach in the highest and most honourable assemblies of the land; they are most careful to observe their oath of due obedience, to keep the canon● orders laws and ceremonies of your church and set themselves against such as secretly undermine the state of the church and ministry of England, yet openly stand members and professed friends of the same. They and their assemblies, are best ordered after the constitution and laws of your church. So that to speak as I think, I know not which assemblies be best, where the Leven hath sow red the whole lump; though I can guess which you do mean: but plain dealing about your ministers and assemblies would have beseemed you best. Tell us therefore (when you next write) what ministers you mean; whether the Bishops, Deans, Doctors etc. that are in the cathedral churches; or the Doctors and Divines that are in your universities; or th● Parsons, Vicars, Lecturers that are in your Parishes? Again what Ministers they be whither Apostles or Prophets or Evangelists or Pastors or Teachers; for all these are ministers, Eph. 4. and meet it is to know your meaning: for though Apostles and Pastors be both ministers ordained of Christ, yet if one will say every Pastor is an Apostle, he is but a liar. So you see it is needful that we ransack these your ambiguous and general terms. Now for your argument; first I answer to the proposition, that though these fruits you mention, do many times follow the doctrine of Christ's ministers, yet not theirs only, nor always Not only because other men that are not in office of Ministry may by excercise of their gifts work such fruits, as appeareth 1 Cor. 14.1.31.3.24, 25. etc. I appeal also to yourselves, whether you think not that your best ministers, though silenced, or degraded, from all ministerial office: may not▪ when they teach, work repentance, faith and other fruits of the spirit.  
Neither do these fruits always follow the doctrine of true ministers; for Noah preached 120· years yet followed there not faith, and repentance in the old world: Christ himself preached to Chorazin and Bethsaida; yet left 
a Ma 11.20 21,  the woe upon them; and complaineth (in Esaias that he had 
b Isa, 49, 4.  laboured in vain among the jews: and of Israel it is said, 
c Rome 10.21  All the day long have I stretched out my hand a disobedient and g●ynsaying people. To reason therefore from the effects, this man wrought faith by his teaching therefore he is a true minister; or this man wrought not faith by his teaching, therefore no true minister; is unsound, and unconcludable by the scriptures  
The proofs of your proposition being examined, will be found to light for your purpose; if you mean that the officers doctrine, only, or always, is effectual for these thin●s, to weet, repentance, faith &c often I know it is; and always it hath effect, either to life or death in the hearers.  
Your scriptures are, Ier, 23, 22. which showeth what true prophets should labour to do, namely to turn sinners from their evil way &c, (whereas the false prophets did otherwise, Eze, 13, 22:) but proveth not, that the prophets only did this; for the Priests and Levites did it also Malipiero, 2, 6, yea private men may often turn their neighbours from evil, Leu 4, 27.8. & 19.17. Prou. 31.26, Mal. 3, 16, Mat. 18.15. jam. 5.19, 20. neither proveth it, that the prophets always did this; for Esaias crieth, Lord who hath believed our report? Isa. 53.1 and it is written, that the Lord testified to Israel by all the Prophets and by all the Seers, saying, turn from your evil ways etc. nevertheless they would not obey but hardened th●ir necks etc. 2 Ki●, 17, 13, 14  
The next place Isa 55.11. showeth the nature of God's word, which is effectual to make better or worse as he will that sendeth it: not always t● convert, for 
a Exo. 5, etc.  Pharaoh was hardened by it: not only by the officers, f●r ●●is honour is to all the Saints, to have the high acts of God in their m●●thes, and a two edged sword in their hands, to execute vengeance in the heathens, and corrections among the people etc. Psal, 149 6, 7.9.  
The fruits whereby false prophets are known from true; Mat. 7. ●0, are not the effects of their doctrine by converting men only; for so many 
b 2 Kin, 1.7 13, 14  true prophets heretofore should have been judged false: but the doctrine itself, and the works of life and conversation, are the prophet's fruits; which also may both be good, in them that have no office at all.  
The next place Luk. 1.76. speaketh in particular of john's extraordinary office, and work wherein God employed him; and proveth your purpose no more than the other.  
john, 1●, 1, 2. speaketh of lawful enterers into the sheepfold by the door, and of thieves that climb up an other way. What this will say for your ministers I know not unless, to prove them thieves; for their entrance into the ministry by the d●ore, that is, by Christ's ordinance i● his church they cannot show; no lawful office or calling have they to witness for them Yea they are ashamed of their office, calling, and entrance by the Bishops, and secretly do disclaim that to their people, & pretend their gifts, graces and effects, for proof of their ministry, 〈◊〉 many of us that have dealt with them; do know: But what say I, secretly? nay openly and in print they have yielded, that 
2 admin to the Parlian, ● 16.  th●y enter not in by Christ, but by a popish and unlawful vocation. The like seemeth ●o be closely implied in these your arguments, where you neither name what office your preachers have, nor how lawfully they come by it, as the reader may observe.  
The words of the Apostle, 1 Cor. 9.1, 2, & 4.15. show two things, 1 ● lawful office of Apostleship, 2 and God's blessing upon his labours in that office: neither of Which can be showed by your ministers; neither proveth it your proposition more than the other places. For I hold with you that Gods lawful ministers, are the principal, and most excellent ordinary outward means, for to work repentance, faith, etc. but not the only, as you would have it.  
The Assumption, namely, that such effects do follow your preachers doctrine is denied. You refer us for the proof thereof, to that which you wrote before: and I also refer the reader to that which is before answered And here I will add a further demonstration, that true repentance can not follow your preachers doctrine, in as much as they teach not true repentance, neither can teach it because their mouths are mouzled by your church that they may not speak For thus 
‡ Constitut & Canon's ecclesiast. 1603.  it hath enacted.  

* Canon. 4,  Whosoever shall hereafter affirm that the form of God's worship in the Church of England established by law, and contained in the book of Common prayer etc. is a corrupt, superstitious or unlawful worship of God, or containeth any thing in it, that is repugnant to the scriptures, let him be excommunicated ipso facto; and not restored but by the Bishop of the place, or Archbishop after his repentance and public revocation of such his wicked errors. 
Can. 6.   
Whosoever shall hereafter affirm that the rites and ceremonies of the church of England by law established, are wicked, Antichristian or superstitious, or such as being commanded by lawful authority, men who are zealously and godly affected, may not with any good conscience approve them, use them or as occasion requireth subscribe unto them; let him be excommunicated, ipso facto, and not restored until he repent, and publicly revoke such his wicked errors.  

Can. 7.  Whosoever shall hereafter aff●rm that the government of the Church of Eng. under his Majesty by Archbishops, Bishop's Deans, Archdeacon's and the rest that do bear office in the same, is Antichristian or repugnant to the word of God, let him be excommunicated ipso facto, and so continue until he repent and publicly revoke such his wicked errors.  

Can. 8,  Whosoever shall hereafter affirm or teach that the form and manner of making and consecrating Bishops, Priests, and Deacons, containeth any thing in it that is repugnant to the word of God &c. let him be excommunicated ipso facto; not to be restored until he repent and publicly revoke such his wicked errors.  
These and the like constitutions, hath your representative church of England made for maintenance of their worship, ministry, ecclesiastical government, rites ceremonies. &c, against which your forward preachers heretofore so earnestly inveighed, as being corrupt unlawful and antichristian: but now behold their mouths are shut, they may not preach repentance for the many abominations that are among you; if they do, they are excommunicated ipso facto, and then are they neither officers nor members of your church. Wherefore your ministers are either fain to hold their peace, and be such as the Prophet 
a Eze 13 4  complaineth of, that rise not up in the breaches, nor make up the hedge for the house of Israel, to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord; or else they preach for defence of your own invented worship, pompous clergy, and laudable ceremonies; and are such as the prophet blameth for 
b Eze 13.7  having seen a vain vision, and spoken a lying divination, saying, the Lord saith it, albeit he hath not spoken. What reward then can they expect for their preaching but as the Lord there threateneth, that 
c verse 8.  his hand shallbe upon them, they shall not be in th' assembly of his people, nor written in the writing of the house of Israel. Wherefore if there be any weight or soundness in this your argument, it may be returned upon you thus. The preachers after whose public doctrine do ordinarily follow impenitency, and continuance in an evil ●nd idolatrous estate of life in the hearers, are not the true ministers of God. But after the doctrine of the preachers of your best assemblies, do ordinarily follow and appear impenitency, idolatry and other fruits of the flesh in the hearers: (as is proved by the answer to this and to the assumption of your 4 argument for the churches.) Therefore the preachers of your best assemblies, are not the true Ministers of God.   

The 2 Argument  
Such Ministers as have promise of salvation in their present standing, are true Ministers of Christ.  
But so have the ministers of our best assemblies; Ergo. etc.   

Proof of the assumption,  
Because the promise of salvation is given to such Ministers as 1, are faithful and wise stewards, giving the household meat in due season Mat, 24, 45.46. 2. build gold silver or stubble on the foundation 1 Cor 3, 12, 15. 3. continue in taking heed to themselves and unto learning 1 Tim. 4, 16. 4, feed the flock willingly, of a ready mind, as ensamples, 1 Pet. 5.4. 5. turn many souls to righteousness. Dan. 12, 3.6. Ez● 1, 3. Thou shalt save thine own soul.  
But these things do the ministers of our best assemblies: Ergo.   

Answer.  
THe assumption of this argument I deny; and will consider the 6. reasons that you bring to prove it.  
1. Are faithful ●nd wise stewards etc.] but your ministers are your Lord Bishop's stewards or bailiffs, not the Lord Chr●sts: by them the●r mouth; are ●●ened and shut a 〈◊〉. For let them show when, wher● & how God gave the stewardship and key of the house to them, as he did to 
a Is, 22, 20 2● 22,  E●akin, Th●s should be first cleared, before they presume to administer as stewards. Did not the Bishop (after they had promised their reverend obedience unto him) say unto each of them, 
b Book of orders.  Receive the holy Ghost wh●se sins thou dost forgive th●y are forgiven &c, & be thou a faithful dispensour of the word of God, & c? Thus have they their stewardship or office of dispensation, fr●m their spiritual Lord, and reverend Father the prelate; who by his presuming to give the Holy Gh●st, should seem to be 
c joh 20.22 23,  Christ, or rather, as I think 
d 2 Th●, 2.4,  Antichrist: but say you whether he be, when you next write. As is their calling, such is their administration: for, they feed not God's household, but confuse assemblies, wherein are many profane, ●uch as Christ caleth 
e Mat. 7:  dogs & swine, unworthy to be at his table; though your stewards admit them to the table of your church, to your most holy actions.  
Neither give they them meat in due season; for such diet as is meet for them, to rebuke them for their idolatrous estate, they give them not; false doctrines 
f See a catalogue of them in answ. to Mr jac. pa 158, &c:  many they give them to feed on and such meats Christ never left for his household. Finally, if the Bishop's silence them, & set unpreaching priests in their places, they feed their flocks no longer but leave them to the wolf. And are these your faithful stewards? They are such as was the steward Shebna, to whom the Lord said what haste thou to do● h●r●? I will drive the from thy station. Isa, 22, 15, 19  
2, Build gol● silver or stubble on th'foūda●●ō First there is not yet a good foundation laid of your ch●rch; what then is your building? There is no good foundation, because your church never yet struck a holy and orderly covenant with Christ, according to the rules of his testament.  
S●condly they ha●e not been called or sent of God to build, but either have intruded themselves, or else by the Bishops, the Lords of your harvest, have these your laborers been thirst forth.  
Thirdly they bu●ld much stubble indeed, little gold or silver that will endure the s●re; let the frame and constitution of your church, the worship, ministry and government thereof, be brought to the trial of God's word, and it w●ll burn these thin●s to ashes. Yet if your minister's will be content their works shall burn; and will upon the true foundation build better▪ they ●ay through the mercy of God be saved, which I heartily wish unto them all Otherwise, thus saith the Lord; 
g E●e 13.10 &c:  Because th●y hau● deceived my people, saying PEACE and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and behold the others daubed it with uptempered mortar, say unto them which daub it with vntempered mortar, that it shall fall 
a ver· 14.  I will destroy the wall that ye have daubed with vntempered mortar, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midds thereof; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.  
3. Continue in taking heed to themselves and unto learning.] First, these words were spoken to one, that had a lawful office, calling and entrance and so serveth nothing for your ministers, that want all these. Secondly by 
b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  learning is meant teaching of the people, (as the words following also show;) which he willeth Timothee to continue in: but this your ministers do not; for the doctrine that is most needful for the present state of the people, they teach not; besides, if their Lords the Bishops forbid them, they continue not with their flocks, nor their flocks with them; but another hireling comes in their place.  
4. Feed the flock willingly) First Christ's flock is of 
c joh. 18,  sheep, not of carnal worldlings, atheists, blasphemers, and other l●ke wild beasts of the forest: Christ would not have his children's bread to be cast unto dogs; as your ministers apply their word and sacraments, to the most profane and their seed.  
Secondly to 
d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉  feed importeth also, to 
e Mat. 2, 6 Reu, 2.7.  rule & govern; but that your ministers do not, both they and their flocks are subject to other Lords & governors, the Prelates, which love preeminence, and have authority over your church to suspend, silence, and excommunicate priests and people. If the flocks of your Minister's wer● Christ's sheep, they would not hear the voice of strangers, john, 10. 5· But the people of your parishes, if the Bishop depose their shepherd and set a wolf or a blind guide over them they submit unto him, and take him for their priest; and their former shepherd feeds no more, but gives place to the stranger. O idol shepherd, that leaveth the flock Zach, 11, 17.  
5. Turn many souls to righteousness.) The contrary is true: they hinder many souls from righteousness, by preaching against the truth and witnesses thereof, by pleading for Baal, and toleration of the evils that are among you  
6. Eze 3. Thou shalt save thine own soul.) This was conditional, if he warned the wicked of the evil way wherein he walked; vers. 18.19. etc. which your ministers do not, (as before is showed,) but strengthen the people in an evil way. How then shall they save their souls? Again this was spoken to Ezekiel who had a lawful office, calling & sending from God, vers. 1.4.11. etc. and you should first have proved that your Ministers have these and then you might have spoken of their administration. But seeing they have neither true office, lawful calling, nor good administration: your conclusion is amiss, for the premises do not prove it.   

The 3. Argument.  
THose ministers by whom the Saints are gathered, which do the work of the ministry, which edify the body of Christ, are the ministers of Christ. But such are the minister's of our best assemblies: Ergo  
The proposition is made manifest by Eph. 4.11, 12, where it approves that these works are proper effects of the public ministry given by Christ: also none can ordinarily build up God's church, but such as God giveth to this end 1 Cor. 3.5, 6, 9, 10.  
The assumption is proved, because the ministers of our best assemblies, do gather the Saints from the reprobates, making a manifest separation, and being gathered, do build the body of Christ in godliness, by their ordinary preaching in these assemblies.   

Anwser.  
THe assumption or 2, part of your argument that such are the Ministers of your best assemblies, is denied; for these reasons.  
1 In Ephes 4. it is said, He, (that is Christ,) gave but your ministers are given by the Bishops: and for disobedience to them, are taken away again from your parishes: Christ never gave such hirelings  
2. The ministers mentioned in Eph. 4, are Apostles Propets Evangelists Pastors and Teachers. Your minister's are none of these, but Priests, Parson's Vicars, etc. whose very names, besides their offices, calling &c.) show them to be from Antichr●st.  
3. Your ministers gather not the Saints, but persecute and scatter them as we know by experience: they gather (or keep being gathered) a confused idolatrous multitude, such as is in their parishes: the right way of gathering a church by separation from the world, they know not, or will not acknowledge.  
4. They do not the work of Christ's ministry, which is aright to dispense the word, seals, censures &c according to the scriptures: but the work of Antichrists ministry, in reading the service book, marrying, burying, churching of women, & the like; as in your Liturgy & other church books are set down.  
5. They edify not the body of Christ, but build and fortify the tower of Babel their confused assemblies; which were constituted of ignorant idolatrous papists, and other profane, the very body of Antichrist: but the way of truth and such as walk therein, are evil spoken of by your Ministers, as their books, sermons, conferences &c, daily show. For all which reasons, the right conclusion of your argument should be this, that the ministers of your best assemblies. are the ministers of Antichrist.  
To prove, your assumption, you give us your bare word, saying they do gather the Saints from the reprobats; making a manifest separation etc. This is to prove the same by the same: they do so because they do so; whereas all the world may may see, they do not so. For the church of Eng., and parish assemblies thereof, from which we have departed, consist of all sorts of persons; the ministers stand priests by law to the whole parishes, whereof all are partakers of the holy things of God, every one baptised etc. and can you say, they are not then builded in and with your church? And for separation, we know your priests, nor the whole parish, cannot excommunicate any, be they never so blasphemous, wicked or licentious: that power is in the Bishop's courts And how few are excommunicated for their heresies, blasphemies, atheism or wicked life, who knoweth not: but for well doing, you have excommunicated many. And further, if any of your ministers should go about to make a separation or gather any other churches or assemblies, then are already by the laws of the land established and allowed they are ipso facto excommunicated, by force of the Canons of your church; made in Anno 1603. Can. 9, 11, 1●. So still the open wicked remain edified with the rest in your church, & there is no such separation, as you against all men's knowledge do pretend. Your argument therefore is no better, then as if jeroboam priests should thus have pleaded. Those priests that teach jacob. God's judgements, and Israel his law, that put incense before the face of God, and and b●rnt offerings upon his altar, are the true priests of God: Deut, 33.10 But these things do we: therefore we are true priests. If you say their assumption is false; the like is said of yours; and your works plainly prove your assumption most untrue.   

The 4. Argument  
THose ministers by whose ministry and preaching, the overthrow of the kingdom of Antichrist is effected, are the ministers of Christ. But such are the ministers of our best assemblies: Ergo the true ministers of Christ The proposition is proved, 2 Cor, 10, 4 5.2 Thes 2.8. Reu, 14.6.7.8. & 18 12. & 11, 3, 11.  
The assumption is manifest; for that the ministers of our best assemblies have weakened and thrown down and do still fight and prevail against the kingdom of Antichrist, by the power of Christ; 2. Thes, 2, 8, and Satan cannot cast out Satan. Mark. 3.23.   

Answer  
THere is no cause or person so bad, but many have store of such arguments as you bring for your ministers wherein you assume & take for granted that which is most needful to be proved: & if we will not beleeu your bold affirmation, contrary to our knowledge and the truth of your estate, your ministry hath nothing to justify or confirm it.  
The assumption of this argument I deny; for your ministers have not thrown down Antichrists kingdo●e, but sought rather to hold it up. Here in stead of due proof, you tell us it is manifest, for that the ministers of your best assemblies have weakened &c, the kingdom of Antichrist. Thus again you prou the sa●e by the said; & say that is manifest which is most obscur & unknown unto us: & to discover your falsehood, I will briefly show, how the scriptures that you bring for your proposition; do disprou your assumption.  
The weapons of our warfare (saith the Apostle. 2 Cor, 10, 4, 5.) are not carnal but mighty through God, to cast down holds, casting down the imaginations and every high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God. etc. But the weapons of your ministers warfare, have been carnal, not mighty through God. For against the remaynders of Antichrists kingdom among you, they have sued to Parliaments, that the arm of fle●h might throw down the prelate's, their courts, and corruptions but when the state hath not harkened to them, what have your ministers done but submitted themselves to their spiritual Lords; or at least weise ceased their warfare against them; and in their sermons and writings, have turned the edge of the●r sword against us that have departed from Babylon And what have they thrown down by their preaching these half hundred years? Is there any of their Romish abuses, that they have got reform? any one of the rabble of Antichristian officers, courts, canons etc. cast out of the Church? Nay themselves now are ca●t out, if they speak or write any more against them, as they did in times past. Do not all their people stand still in subjection under that liturgy, prelacy, priesthood and popish ecclesiastical government which were set over them at the first? They have warred with the Antichristians, as did Israel with the Canaanites; when they were 
a Psal 106.35.36,  mixed among them, and learned their works, and served their idols, which were their ruin. Therefore are these enemies, become thorns to the sides, and pricks to the eyes of your best ministers and people, vexing them in the land wherein they dwell; as God did threaten Num. 33, 55.  
So when th' Apostle saith 2 Thes, 2.8. that the Lord shall consume (Antichrist with the spirit of his mouth, and abolish him with the brightness of his coming; may we not hereby learn, that God's spirit is not in your ministers mouths, seeing they have not consumed or abolished, the Antichristian prelacy, and other abominations of that man of sin? nay it is evident they maintain Antichrist, for have they not all, received their ministry from the prelate's & promised obedience to their ordinaris, yet your preachers were want to say the prelates are Antichristian. Again if your ministers had in them the spirit of the Lords mouth, they would ere this time, have made a separation from the wicked, popish, & sinful generation, for God said unto jeremy, 
b Isa 15.19  if thou take away the precious from the vile, thou shallbe as my mouth. But this doctrine of separation, your ministers will neither teach, nor suffer to be taught; but lock up the kingdom of heaven as much as they can, that men may not enter: they blame us for nothing so much, as for separation, when nothing is more needful to be done, if we will keep the covenant of our God, and maintain that war which his own Majesty first proclaimed, between the woman's seed, and the serpent's, Gen. 3, 15. so unlike your ministers be to the mouth of God. As unlike they are also to those Angels and witnesses Reu. 18. & 14. & 11. wh●ch cried the downfall of Antichrists pompous church and ministry, and called all God's children out of it, saying 
a Reu 18.4  Go cut of her my people; but your ministers cry that men should tarry within, as the 
b 1 Chr, 4.23.  potters, that contrary to 
c jer. 51, 6,  God's commandment dwelled with the king (of Babel) for h●s work: and such as are gone out, they labour to bring back again, saying that with them is the true doctrine of salvation; their errors are not fundamental their corruptions abolish not from Christ, all reformed churches approve of the●r church and ministry: and many such Babylonian songs, have we heard among them And whereas in Re●, 14 there followed an Angel, that with a loud voice threatened all those 
d ver▪ 9, 10  that worshipped the beast and his image and received his mark in forehead or in hand; your ministers themselves stand under that wrath, whiles the mark of the beast is so open in the●r foreheads, by that false ministry of priesthood which they have received from 
e there is a character imprinted by the Bishop's ordination council trident Sesse, 23 Can, 4.  the Bishops whose unlawful authority and jurisdiction they submit unto and teach men to do the like in wh●ch respect they cannot excuse themselves from worshipping the Beast, seeing that hierarchy and prelacy‘ is by the light of God's word and by the a●te●tation of the Christian reformed churches, and by your own confession heretofore, found to be Antichristian; if the Pope be Anti●hris●, & R●me be the throne of the Beast. Thus men may see that your ministers are far from overthrowing Antichrist kingdom & yourself have showed a good reason why: Satan cannot cast out Satan.   

The 5. argument.  
THose ministers which are the saviour of death to the wicked, and life to the godly, are the true ministers of Christ, 1 Cor. 2.16.  
Such are the ministers of our best assemblies. Ergo true ministers of Christ.   

Answer.  
THis naked argument, hath not a rag to help to cover the falsehood of the a●●umption; wherefore ●t may soon be stripped and let go. I disprove that which you have assumed th●s.  
Your minister's are not the saviour of death to the wicked, because they suffer them in the bosom of the●r church; by their sacraments and blessings, confirm them in their sins, do not excommunicate the profane or vicious liver, but let them remain in mixture with the rest, and plead for such a people, to be the true church of God.  
They are not the savour of life to the godly because they preach not the way of l●fe truly, by separating from idolaters and idolatry, and gathering to a h●ly communion in the faith and obedience of the gospel.  
B●t while● they persecute, preach, and write against God's children, which practice the ordinances of his covenant, and by fair pretexts and tolorable reasons, seek to draw them back to their confused assemblies they are l●ke those whom the Lord reproved thus; And will ye pollute me among my people, for handfuls of barley, and f●r pieces of bread. and to stay the souls of them that should not die, and to give life to the soule● that should not live, in lying to my people, that hear your lies? Ezek 13.19.   

The 6. Argument.  
THese ministers that are hated of all men for the sake of Christ, are the true ministers of Christ; 1 Cor. 4, 9, 10.11..12.13.. 2. Cor. 6.4.5, 6.8 Mat. 10: ●2. Such are the ministers of our best assemblies, Therefore true ministers of Christ.  
The MINOR is proved, for that th●y are hated of the most part, and of the most evil of all sorts, as were the Apostles and desciples of Christ.  
Consider what I say, ●nd the Lord give thee understanding in all things, 2 Tim, 2.7.   

Answer.  
THis your last reason comes all too late, and will help your ministry nothing, For by the discussing of your former arguments We have seen that your ministers cannot prove their office, calling or entrance into the sheepfold, by Christ neither administer they according to his testament, but after their own invented liturgy laws, and Cannons, So that if they be hated of all men in respect of their ministry, they are not hated for Christ's sake; seeing they have none of his ministry, hated it may be they are of many; so, are Friar's and Monk's, and the rest of Anti-christs clergy, so it is written that the ‡ whore shall be hated, made desolate and naked, her flesh eaten and she burned with fire; but it is the cause, not the suffering which makes the martyr, Whereas therefore your minor is proved by a bare affirmation only, that so it is; (as is your manner of disputing; you must take a better course, and prove things otherwise, ere we, will yield: for the Arrian, and Anabaptists, and all sorts of religion, will Plead that both they and their ministers are hated for Christ's sake: but every tree is known by its fruits.  
Yet have yea no such cause to complayn of hatred; for the ministry of your Church; is approved and rejoiced for, (as yourself while are said, (of all the, foreign reformed Churches in the world; and at home we know, how it is reverenced, honoured and obeyed. Your chiefest ministers being acknowledged for spiritual Lords, and right reverend Fathers; the inferior priests, as sound and excellent Divines, followed and flockked after by the people. And how they are provided for by rich Bishoprics. & fat benefices, all over the Land; besides their daily entertainment, at great and rich men's tables; who is there among you that knoweth not, These are not signs of hatred.  
Therefore let him that readeth consider indeed what you have said; and the Lord give him understanding in all things.  
O England  
ISRAEL thy Prophets are like the foxes in the waste places, Ezek. 13.4.   

Positions concerning a true Church  
INtending to set down some arguments against the corrupt estate of the present church of England; I thought it profitable to prefix some few positions, as a ground, whereby thou mayst (good reader;) judge the better of that which shallbe said. Yet mean I not to handle this point at large, which in so many other writings thou moist profitably read: but only to observe such principal things as may give light unto the simple, who many of them mistake this doctrine of the Church, and erring once, are ●y seducers further led astray The Lord reduce all hi● that err, and establish his servants in the truth for ever.  
THis our English word Church, through custom of speech is commonly used for the Temple or place where people come together for the worship of God: but they that are any th●ng exercised in religion, know, that it also signifieth the People, which gather together for divine service; and this is the ●irst and proper meaning of the word Church, as it is used to express the original scripture terms, Kahal and Ecclesia.  
2. This name Church, we English men (which c●me of the Saxons) have received from the Saxon, German, and Duitch cames Cyri●, Kirch, Kerck; whereby those nations now, do usually call their Temples or meeting-places: but the people which come together in them, they call the Gemeine, and the Gemeinte, that is to say, the communialty; & we in our first English Bible's called it, the Congregation.  
3. As all religion is learned out of holy scriptures, so the name and doctrine of the church, is from thence to be deduced; and there the Church is called in Hebrew 
a D●ut. 5.22.  Kahal or 
b Deut. 33.4.  Kehillab, which signifieth a Convocation or Assembly of people, and 
c Exod. 16.1. Psal. 111.1.  Ghnedah, that is to say a Congregation: in Greek it is named 
d Ma● 16, 18, Act. 7 38.  Ecclesia, that is in like manner, a Convocation or people called forth to an assembly, and sometime 
e jam, 2, 2, and in th● greek of the old Test. often, Deut. 5.22, Exod, 16 3, etc.  Synag●gee, that is a Congregation: which word is also used for the 
f Luk. 7.5. Act, 18, 7.  place where●n the people assembled.  
4 The Hebrew word Kahal is diversely used; sometimes more generally for a great or universal multitude, as 
g Gen. 35.11, jer. 50.9.  of nations and 
(h) Gen 48, 4, Ezek, 23, 24.  of pe●●les sometimes more particularly for an assembly of one nation: as of 
i Exod. 12.6.  the Israelites; sometimes for apart of them, as 
k 1 Chro. 13.1, 2, ●; 5. and 29.1.6. 1: Chro, 1.2 3.  the Elders and Governors; or some 
l 2. Chron 20.4.5.  of the tribes of Israel apart; or some 
m 2. Chron. 30.10.13.25.  of all the tr●bes, even 
n Ezra. 10.1.  men, women and children: and indifferently for 
o Gen. 49.6.  any assembly, and this not only of God's people, but of 
p Ezek. 27.27. and 32.22. and 38 4.7. etc.  heathens also & infidels.  
5. Likeweise the Greek word Ecclesia is of as large extent and signification; used sometime for 
q Eph. 5.23, etc. Heb 12.23,  the church generally, sometime for a 
(r) 1. Cor. 1, 2.  particular church or congregation in a city: sometimes more particularly in 
s Rom. 16, 5, 1 Cor. 16.19, Colos, 4, 15,  a house or family, sometimes (in the Greek version of the old testament) for an assembly 
t 2 Chron, 1, 3, &c,  of Governors, or company of 
u 1, Sam, 19, 20,  Prophets, or congregation 
x Psal, 107.32,  of the people: and finally for 
y Eze. 32, 3. Act. 19, 32, 39, 41,  any assembly lawful or unlawful, of good men or of 
z Psal. 26 5.  evil.  
6. These words thus genreall, are in more special sort both by the scriptures, and by use of speech among all religious people restrained and applied to such Assemblies and congregations as are called and gathered for divine exercises: and so our English name of church is attributed peculiarly to spiritual or religious assemblies, called ecclesiastical and not to any other assemblies civil or political.  
7. Of religious or ecclesiastical assemblies generally considered, there are many sorts in the world, all disalowed of god, save one sort only which he acknowledgeth to be his, and hath separated to himself from all the rest.  
8. The many false sorts, may be reduced unto fowr; 1 The assemblies of Pagans or heathen people, which profess some God, Gods, or, Goddesses, whom they do worship, ignorantly, having 
a Rom. 1.25  cha●ged the truth of God into a lie, and so serving creatures, not (indeed) the creator, which is blessed for ever. Amen. 2 The assemblies of jews who profess the true God (after a s●rt) and allow the writings of Moses a●d the prophets, b●t abhor Christ jesus our Saviour, and reject the new testament, 3 The assemblies of Mahomis●s, as Persians, Turks, Moors, etc. wh●ch profess also after their manner, that 
b Alkoran; Azoar. 4.  one true God of whom Moses and the prophets wrote, and acknowledge 
c Azoar. 2. &. 4 &, 11.  Chr●st to be a Prophet sent of God, yea and the breath or spirit of God yet beleeu ●hey not that he is 
d Az●ar, 12. &c,  God, or the 
e Azoar. 19: 20.  son of God, or saviour of the world, but follow the lies and fablies of their false prophet Mahomet. 4. Finally the churches or assemblies of false Christians, which profess God and ●i● Son Christ, into whose name they are baptised; but by the●r works do deny him, and by their errors and heresies, do overthrow the truth of rel●●ion.  
9 The 1 thr●e sorts, Pagans', jews, and Mahometists, because of thei● so open and manifest deny all of Christ and salvation by him, are generally generally of Christians reputed as no Churches, the la●ter are re●uted no true but false church●s, and so also do they esteem of true Christians, and one of another Hereupon is continual controversy between true ●nd and false christians, which is the true church, and how it ●ay be known.  
10. To help the weak and doubtful in this case, I will so truly and plainly as by the grace of God I can, describe the tr●e Church, which in the holy scriptures is called the Congregation and church 
f N●he, 13.1 1 Tim. 3.5, 14,  of God, consisting of godly and holy people named 
g 1 Cor, 1 2. Psal, 89, 5. & 149.1,  Saints; opposed to the wicked or 
(h) Psal. 26.5  malignant church●s, the 
i Re●, 2, 9  Synagoves of Satan.  
11. The true church is a people 
k 1 Pet, 2, 9,  called of God by 
l 2 Th●s, ●, 14,  the Gospel, 
m joh, 17, 6, 9, 14. and. 15, 19,  from the world, unto the 
n 1 Cor. 1, 9,  communion or fellowship of his son jesus Chr●st, in whom they are 
o Eph, ●. 21.22.  coupled and built together. to be the habitation of God by the spirit  
12 The church is said to be a people, 
p 1 Pet, 2 9  nation or generation, because it consisteth of many persons, or of a multitude little or great: for though a particular Christian is called, and of the church; yet no man is a church or congregation,  
13. It is a people called; 
q Eph, 4●1 Heb. 9.15,  because every concourse or assembly is not a true church: none of themselves can come unto this estate, unless they be 
r Rome 9.11, 12, 24. S●ng. 1.3,  called or drawn thereunto: and they are said to be called of God, because he 
s job. 6: 44:  only calleth and draweth men unto Christ with a 
(t) 2 Tim. 1: 9  holy calling; and addeth them 
(u) Act. 2.47.  to his church, 
x 2 Chro. 30.6 10.12. Rom. 8 30.  no humane power or authority ●s able to do it,  
14. The Gospel 
z 2 Thes. 2 14.  noted to be the the means of our calling, he maketh known unto his people outwardly by his 
a 2 Cor. 5.19.  word 
(b) Act. 5.20  spoken and 
(c) job. 20.31.  written, and inwardly by 
d Nehem. 9.20. 1 Cor. 2 10. 1●.  his holy spirit: and thus the Church are all 
e job. 6 45.  the taught of God.  
15. The state out of which the Church is called, is said to be out of or from the 
f Iob ●5. 1. ●, & 17, 6, 9  world, whereby is meant, first Satan the 
g I●h. 12.31,  Prince of this world, from whose power they are 
h Act. 26: 18,  turned unto God; secondly, the wicked people of the world, called the 
i 1 joh. 3.10.  children of the Devil, from whose communion and fellowship 
k Exod. 34 15, Prou. 15.8. Psal 16.4. E●h. 5, 11, 2 Cor. 6.17.  in their religion, and all other wicked actions, we must be separated, thirdly, the corruption of nature in ourselves, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, 
l 1 joh 2.16.  all which are of the world. and wh●ch we must 
m Rome 7.15. jude. 23.  hate and 
n Gal. 6, 14.  crucify, & so turn and become 
o Mat. 18, 3.  like little children, even borne again, that we may see the kingdom of God 
p joh 3.3,   
16. The estate whereunto God called his church in this life, is generally 
q 1. Cor. 1.9.  to the communion (or fellowhsip) of his son jesus Christ, as being their only mediator and Saviour, the Prophet Priest and King of the church; which they believing and professing, are al●o made partakers (in a proportion and in their measure) of these three offices with him  
17. jesus Christ is the 
r Deut, 18.15, 18.  Prophet ra●sed up of God unto his people to teach them all that God commanded him which also he did, both by 
s Act. 3.22.26. Mat. 5, 2, & ●,  himself, and by the Ministry of his servants 
t joh, 13, 20.  sent of him. And as 
[u] Col, 2.3.  all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hid in him, so him the church m●st 
x Mat. 17, 5.  hear; for all 
y john 3.13. &. 6.68 Reu 5.1, 5  heavenly wisdom and knowledge is to be learned of him; and every person which shall not hear this Prophet, 
z Act, 3 23.  shall be destroyed out of the people.  
18, This Prophet call office of Christ, he hath communicated with the church, by giving 
a Psal, 147 19, 20 Isa. 59, 21. Rome 15.4.  to the same his word for their instruction and comfort, and 
b jam. 1.21.  graffing the same within them, his spirit also as an 
c 1 joh, 2.20.27.  Anointing to teach them all things giving 
d Ep 4.8.11. 1 Cor. 12, 28.  gifts also, or ministers, to open and apply the same unto their souls, likewise power and freedom by 
e Isa. 43 10.  witness 
f 2 Cor. 4, 13.  profession and 
g Mat, 28, 20  practice, to 
h Phil, 3.16,  hold forth that word of life as lights in the world: thereby to 
i Act. 8.4,  preach unto others the fa●th of Christ, to 
k 1 Thes. 5, 11.  edify and build up one another daily therein, to 
l Heb. 10.24.  provoke unto love and to good works. to 
m Rom. 15, 14,  admonish and 
n Leu. 19, 17.  reprehend for evil and iniquity; to 
o Luk. 17, 3.  forgive and 
p 1 Thes 4.18  comfort one another in the bowels of Christ, whose word therefore all aught to labour that it may dwell plenteously in them, that if any man speak, it may be 
r 1. Pet, 4.11.  as the words of G●d. 
q Col. 3.16   
19 jesus the son of God, is also the 
s Heb, 4, 14, 20,  great high priest or Sacrificer of the Church▪ by whose 
‡ Rom. ●, 19,  obedience, and sacrifice or oblation of 
t Heb, 10.5, 10,  h●s own body and blood, the church is cleansed 
u 1 joh, 1, 7.  from all sin, and 
x Rome, 5.10,  reconciled to God: by whose intercession the church, with the holy actions & oblations of the same, are 
y Heb. ●, 25, ●nd 9.24. 〈◊〉 13.15, Reu, 8.3 4.  accepted of God, and made heirs of blessing.  
20. And this his Priestly office, is 〈◊〉 imparted to his church, as they have not only interest in his 
z Isa 53 5. Rom. 5.8.10  death and sufferings whereby they are reconciled to God, but also are themselves made a 
a 1 Pet. 2.5.  holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God by him: giving up 
b Rom. 12.1.  their own bodies a living sacrifice; 
c Col 3.5.  mortifying their members wh●ch are on earth and 
d Gal 5.24,  crucifying the flesh with th● affections and l●sts; offering up 
e Psal. 51, 17,  contrite and broken h●rts, with 
f Heb. 13.15.  sacrifices of praise confessing to his name; and praying not o●●ly every man for himself, but 
g, Eph. 6.18.  one for another, 
h Heb. 13.16.  doing good and distributing to the necessity's of the Saints, 
i 2. Tim. 2.3.9,  suffering affliction for the Gospel and finally if they be called thereunto, pouring out the r souls unto 
k Heb. 12.4, 2. Tim 4.6.  death f●r the truth's sake.  
21. The Lord jesus Christ, is also the 
l Mat. 2, 6.  governor and 
m joh 12 15.  king over Zion God's h●ly mount, and sitteth at his Father's right hand and 
n 1 Cor. 15, 2.  reigneth till all his enemies be made his footstool, being 
o Isa 33, 22.  a King, judge, and lawgiu●r, to h●s people, 
p Mat. 28, 20,  commanding and ruling them by his word and spirit, 
q Psal. 72.  judging them in justice and equity, preserving and defending them by his almighty power, 
r joh. 10, 28 & 1●. 33, Reu. 19 11.21.  from all their enemies.  
22. And this his kingly office he so communicateth with h●s church; as they are by him preserved and defended from all adversary Pour, freed from the dominion 
a Rome 6 14,  of sin and tyranny of 
b 1 joh, 5, 18. Rom. 16, 20.  Satan from subjection to 
c 1, I●h 5, 4  the world, and servitude 
d 1. Cor. 7 23,  unto men: and restored to the joyful liberty of the Children of God, 
e 1, Cor. 3 2●.  the world and all things in it made theirs: that howsoever they have still to 
f 1 Pet. 5, 8.9.  combat with the Devil to 
g Eph 6 12.  wra●tel against principalities & powers: to suffer 
h job. 11 19 & 16.33.  hatred & affliction of the world; an● to war with the fleshly lusts, 
i 1 Pet, 2.11.  which fight against the so●l: yet neither 
k Rom. 8, 38, 39,  death, nor life, nor Angels, nor principalities, nor pours, nor, things present nor things to come nor, height nor depth, nor any other creature, shallbe able to separate them from the love of God which is in Christ jesus our Lord; who hath 
l Reu. 1 6.  made them K●ngs and Priest's unto God even his father, and they shall 
m Reu 5, 10,  reign on the earth, till having served here the●r time, they come to 
n 2. Ti●. 2 12. I●h. 17.24 1, Th●s. 4.17  reign with him in glor●, in ●he heavens for ever  
2●. Unto the participation of these promises and heavenly graces, are 
o, ●lat. 28.19. Rome, 16, 26.  all peo●les provoked by the Gospel ●reached; and such as obey the c●l●●ng of G●d, an● come unto Chr●st, are united unto him the●r head and mediator, from whom proceedeth the justification and sanctification of t●e Church.  
24. justification is the partaking of Christ's 
p Phil, 3 9,  justice or righteousness, ●n his fulfilling and obeying 
q Rome, 5.19,  the law of God, and discharging 
r 1 I●h. 1, 7,  all ou● depts and trespasses by his death; so freeing us 
s Gal, 3, 13,  from the curse, and set●ing us in full favour 
t Rom. 5, 10,  with God and under his 
u Gal. 3, 9.14,  blessing: which righteousness of Christ's, is fully made ours, and imputed to us 
x Rome, 3.25, 30. and 4.4, 25.  by faith for our justification,  
25. Sanctification is the partaking of Christ's holiness by being 
y Rom. 6, 5.  graffed with him to the simill●tude of his death and resurrection; whereby the corruption of nature or 
z vers, 6,  old man in us, becometh crucified and 
a vers, 4.  buried with him; and the 
b Eph. 4.22, 24. Col. 3.10.  new man or image of God is put on and renewed daily in a holy conversation.  
26. Hitherto of the Church's union and communion with Christ her head: now followeth the union of the church's members, one with another: which is their● 
c Eph. 2, 21. Rome, 12, 4, 5.  coupling together as one body by the communion of one and the same 
d 1 Cor. 12.4, 8, 9, 11, 12.13. Eph. 4.4 5, 15.16.  spirit, faith, and love,  
27. The union of the members one with another is to be considered generally or totally; and particularly. Generally as the ch●rch is called universal or catholic, comprehending the 
a Eph, 3, 15,  whole family of God in heaven and in earth, and the 
b, 1 Pet. 5, 9,  fraternity or brotherhood of all Christians which are ●n the world: in whom there is but 
c, Eph, 4, 5.  one faith, in 
d, 1 Cor. 8, 6, &, 12.4, 5, etc. Eph, 2, ●8, &, 4.4, 5, 6,  one and the same God by that one Lord Ies●s Christ, throu●h one Sp●rit. Thus have they all one Father which is God; one 
e, Gal. 4, 26,  mother, jerusalem which is above, and by the mediation of Chr●st are all made 
f, joh, 17, 21.  one, baptised by one spirit into 
g, Cor, 11, 13.  one body, and all made to drink into one spirit.  
28 More Particularly, they that are called of God, and members o●●he Church universal, are united and gathered into many 
g, 1 Cor. 14 33,  churches or congregations, in 
h, Reu: 1.11  several cities & countries: every of which churches being 
i, Act. 2 41 4●: 47. and. 5.13. Heb, 10.25,  joined together in the profession and practice of the Gospel of Christ, have his 
k, 1, Cor, 5, 4,  power and 
l Mat. 18, 20,  presence with them, and is to convene or come 
m, 1 Cor. 11, 2●, 33 &. 54  together in one for the worship of God, and performance of public duties  
29. Whatsoever promise or blessing of God, is bestowed on the church on earth generally considered: the same may be apprehended & enjoyed by every particular church, (though not in like measure by all: as the 
q Exo. 20, 24. Mat, 18, 20, Isa, 4.5,  promises general, and examples particular of the church, 
r 1, Cor, 3.22, 23, & ●. 7, 30. &c, Reu, 2. &. 3.  in Corinth, and others mentioned in the scripture, do confirm.  
30. The Testament of Christ showeth us no Provintiall, national, Imperial, or other l●ke Church, having several meetings or assemblies, and special Pastors over the same: neither, since th● Apostles Prophets & evangelists were taken from this world, are there any other lawful Bishops or Church-governors, than the Bishops or Overseers 
s Act, 20, 17.28, Phil, 1,,, P●t. 5, 1, 3.  of the particular churches; neither ever was there other lawful Head, Lord, or Lords spiritual, of the Church, than 
t Col. ●, ●8. 1 Cor, 8, 6, &, 12, 5.  jesus Chr●st alone.  
31 Unto the ch●rch are to be admitted, all unto whom the covenant and promise of God doth appertain; and they are so many 
a Act, 2, 3●  as the Lord our God shall call; and all those are called (in the judgement of man,) which having 
b Rome, 10, 17. Eph. 1, 13,  heard the word of God, do profess 
c A●t, 2, 38.41, &, 8, 37,  repentance from dead works, and faith in God, by jesus Christ the alone Saviour of ●he world, and promise 
d Exod, 19, 5, 8. 2, Chron, 34, 1, 12, Luk. ●, 17, joh, 1, 26. Rome, 1, 5. Mic 4, 5.  obedience to the word, through the holy Ghost the sanctifier of the elect. Such of 
e Gal. 3, 2●,  all sorts and estates of people in the world, are with their 
f Gen, 17, 7, 1 Cor, 7, 14,  seed to be received into, and nourished ●n the church; their ignorance being holpen by 
g Colos. 1, 28. &, 3, 16,  instruction, their weakness 
h Rome, 15. ●, etc. 1 Gal, 6, 1, Levit, 19, 17,  borne by lenity, their faults corrected i with love and meekness; and their feeble consciences 
k ●, Thes, 5, 14.  comforted with the promises of God.  
3●. Out of the Ch●rch are 
l Mar, ●, 7, 2 Cor, 6, 14 &c Reu, 2, 27. & 22, 15, Isa. 31, 8, 9 Zach, 14, 21,  all s●ch to be kept, as are profane, worldly and wicked, until they be called of God unto repentance & faith in his promise: and out of it are to be cast all such as 
m Mat. 18.17, 1, Cor, 5, 5 12.13, Tit, 3 10, Num, 15, 30, 31.  sin against the law of Go●, by error or corruption, in doctrine or conversation; and will not by pr●uate or public admonistion, be reclaimed and amended  
33; Every particular church or congregation throughout the world hau●ng equal interest 
n joh. 17. ●0, etc.  in Christ, and in his 
o 1, Cor, 14, 36,  word or covenant: consequently ha●e equal power. and aught to have a l●ke care; to practise 
p Mat, 28.19.20,  all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord, standing fast in the liberty where with 
q Gal, 5,  Christ hath made them free.  
34, Every one that would be saved, aught to join himself unto some particular 
r Song, 1, 6, Act, 2, 41, 47 Deut, ●●, 5, etc. Exod, 20.24.  church, where God's name is se●, and known, and called upon: that in and with the same, he may grow up in the fa●th, and love of Christ unto salvation.  
35. Although the church consisteth only of s●ch as are called, yet these are of two sorts, some outwardly only and for a time, which though they be in the church yet are they not indeed 
s 〈…〉, 19.1 Mat. ●2. 14.  of the Church; othersome called also inwardly effectually and for ever. So that the churches on earth, have 
t Cor, 10.5, &c Act. 20.30.  many hypocrites and reprobates for members of them: whose secret sins, defile 
u Gal. 6.3 4.5  themselves alone. Howbeit the 
x ●: Tim. ●. 19.  Lord knoweth them that are his; & a true Christian may by the word 〈◊〉 spirit of the Lord, and fruits of his faith, have 
y Rom. 8.16. 2 Cor. 13.5 1. joh. 3 14.19. etc.  assurance that himself is the Lords; of others, he is for their outward good profession and conversation which he seeth, to hope and judge 
a Ma●. 22.39.1. Cor. 13, 5.7.  as of himself, leauin● the final doom and judgement, until the Lord come, 
b 1. Cor. 4, 5,  who will lighten things that are hid in darkness and make the counsels of the hearts manifest; and will reward every man 
c, R●u, 22, 12.  according as his works shallbe  
36, The best churches on eart are always subject 
d Act, 20, 30, 2 Pet, 2, ●, 2, 1 Cor, 11, 19,  to have open & grievous sinas of all sorts, break out in them: all which iniquities m●st speedily be redressed, and every church purged by 
e Reu, 2, 16, 22,  repentance or 
f 1 Cor, 5, 1, 2, 13.  casting out of the impenitent; lest 
g josh, 22, 18.  wrath do come on all the congregation,  
37. For churches by sinning and impenitency therein, may forfeit their 
h Isa, 24.5, 6  covenant, and be 
i Eze, 23.18.  forsaken of God; and for their adulteries by 
k jer. 3 8,  d●uorced from Christ, and so 
l Reu. 18, 4,  left of his people, the 
m Reu 2, 5.  candlestick being removed out of the place.  
38, By this which hath been said, may appear, that every people called of God into covenant and communion, with Christ, and one with another, and, so walking, though with much weakness, ignorance and daily sin; is to be esteemed a true church of God: but they that are not so called and come into covenant with the Lord, howsoever they may profess many excellent truths, yet want they the main essential thing which, makes a true church.  
39, A church thus having the essence or being: by reference unto or conjunction with Christ, which is 
n Eph. ●● 32. 1 Cor 6, 17,  a secret and spiritual thing; cannot now as it is a church, properly be seen with carnal eye Whereas then the church is said to be visible, it is figuratively spoken, and after a sort; to weet so far as by a people's profession and conversation seen or heard, men may discern and judge, by the rules of God's word  
40. As Christ the head and saviour of his body, cannot be found or known by the wit or wisdom of man, 
o Mat, 11, 25.27, Gal. 1, 15, 16, 1 Cor, 2.7, 8,  but by the revelation of God: so the Church which is his body kingdom and spouse, ca●●ot be discerned by natural or humane skill, 
p S●ng, 1.6, 1 Cor 2, 10, 11.  but by the manifestation of God alone through his word and spirit.  
41, Hence it is that the true churches of God, are both contemned and condemned of the world as 
r Act, 24, 5, 14, & 28.22.  heretics, schismatiks, sedetious, etc. when the false antichristian assemblies are highly honoured and regarded. For they wh●ch understand not the word of God, (wh●ch natural men 
s 1 Cor 2, 14,  do not,) nor have the spirit of God, (which natural men have not) how should they rightly judge of, or discern the Church of God? 
t jude, vers. 19   
42. And Satan to deceive the simple, doth 
a Reu, 17, 4 &, 18. Prou 7.14.16.  deck his synagogues with many ornaments of the church of Christ, as 
b jer. 18.18, 1. King. 22, 24, 2 King 12, 28, 33,  the preaching of the word, prayers, sacraments discipline &c. he procureth them also honour amplitude and prosperity: when from the true church oftimes he taketh not only outward peace and glory; but bereaveth the same of Christ's 
c Dan. 11, 31, Lam. 1.4 etc.  public ministry of the word and sacraments; by, persecuting, imprisoning, banishing and killing 
d Act: 12: 2, 3:  the officers of the Church, and 
e Act: 8: 1: Heb: ●1: 37: 38.  scatteting the members.  
43. Yet is not Satan's synagogue for all the pomp thereof, a church of God; because it enjoyeth and useth not his word and holy things aright according to his 
f john, 3, 27, Heb, 5 4.  heavenly ordinance, Neither can the true churches be spoiled or deprived 
g 2, Tim, 2: 9,  of the word of God, which is 
h, jam, 1: 21:  graffed in them, and able to save their souls, is 
i, 1 Pet, 1: 23: 25.  seed immortal and endureth for ever: but in the mids of their many afflictions, they both 
k, Phi. 2.16.  hold forth that word of life, as lights unto the world; and by the same do 
l 1 The, 5.11:  edify and comfort one another, in the faith and fear of God; whose power and 
m Mat 18.20.  presence they have with them in all estates and places.  
44 So to conclude, a true church is a sacred communiallty, consociate and knit together into a mystical body, whose head 
m Colos, 1.18.  is Christ; whose members, christians 
n Gal. 3.28:  of any nation or condition; whose soul is the 
o Deut. 32, 47. joh, 5.25,  word and whose spirit is 
p Gal. 4.6.1. Cor, 2, 12,  the spirit of the living God: who gathereth together 
q Eze, 37, 1, 2, 6.10, etc.  dry desolate bones, layeth sinews on them, makes flesh to grow, and covereth them with skin, and putteth breath in them that they may live, and stand upon their feet an exceeding great army Unto him for all his blessings, be praise in his churches throughout all generations; Amen & Amen.    

ARGUMENTS Disproving the present estate and constitution of the CHURCH of ENGLAND  
EVery true Church, is the body of Christ, and hath him for the head thereof: For ●t is wr●tten, (God) hath apppointed him over all ●h●ngs the head of the church which is his body Eph, 1, 22, 23 and again, to the church of Corinth it is said, y● are the b●dy of Christ 1 Cor, 12, 27.  
But the church of England, is not the body of Christ, neither hath him for the h●ad thereof. Because, it wa● first constituted as now it standeth, of the members of Antichrist; namely the idolatrous Pap●sts, which openly professed Antichristian sme in Q. Mary's days, ha●ing 
a Reu 9, 11  Abadden the Pope for their head; and spilt much christian blood, that they might mainteyn their Romish abominations. Who all (except some few that of themselves refused,) were at the beginning of Q. Elisabeths' reign, rece●ued into the body of the church, and so have continued, they and their seed ever since. Yet did they not then, enter in by repentance and faith in Christ, (which two things 
b Heb, 6, 1, Mar. 1.15,  are the beginning and foundation of the kingdom of God,) but by the commandment of the Magistrate, were compelled unto the Church, sacraments, ministry etc. which then were by law established and ever since continued. Now the Magistrates law, cannot work faith in any; seeing faith is the 
c Eph. 2.8,  gift of God, and by 
d Rom. 10, 17.  his word only is wrought in man's hart So that the Magistrate though he ourth to abolish idolatry, and set up Gods true worship, to suppress all errors, and cause the truth to be taught, yet cannot he constreyn men to join unto the church, but they must do it 
e Psa 110, 3 Act, 2, 41, Gen. 9, 27.  willingly and gladly, the Lord persuading them hereunto. And these, (of whom we speak) not being persuaded by the Lord and his word, but (●s the worldly multitude always is,) being ready to receive any religion the prince wo●ld establish, rather than they would suffer persecution, wherein that their popish estate, the body of Antichrist, yet then compelled and united unto this church. Again, not only those that were popishly 〈◊〉 and superstitious; but such also as were profane and irreligious, atheists, blasphemers, whoremongers, thieves, drunkards, witches, and all other ungodly persons, of which then were and still are too too many in the land these all, though by reason of their wicked and miserable estate, ●hey w●rlimmes of Satan, and (as the scripture calleth such,) children 
f 1 joh 3, 10 joh. 8, 44,  of the Devil, were yet received, into the Church likeweise, they and ●heir seed & so continue; as the state of that Church plainly showeth. For e●en to this day, profane people, mockers and contemners of religion, tha● blaspheme God and his holy name even in the streets as they walk; such as call themselves the donned crew, Familists, Atheists, and all other sorts of miscreants and wicked livers, are members of the Church of En●land, united with the body and partakers of the sacraments, and other holy act●ons of the same.  
Now these children of wrath, this sinful generation, cannot possibly be members of the body of Christ, nor have him for their head, seeing they are not partakers of his life and spirit, nor called to his faith, neither admitteth he any such unto him until they repent; he hath no concord 
a 2 Cor, 6 15.  with Belial, therefore not with the children of Belial: the members of his glorious body must not be the dead, stinking, and abominable members of Satan Light and darkness, heaven and hell, will as soon be united together. Neither will it be enough to say that some are affected to religion, are of better life, and conversation etc. and that for their sakes, the residue are sanctified, and may be joined unto, and reputed Christ's body and Church: for they that profess more sincerity, yet are not come to a true profession of the Gospel, or renouncing of Idolatry; but after the●r false and popish manner, worship God with the rest, remaining one body one Church with them. Now we are taught of God that the religious are so far from sanctifying the wicked, as contrariweise the wicked do pollute them, whatsoever the unclean person toucheth saith the Lord,) 
b 
Num. 19.22.  
2 Cor 6.17.18.   shallbe unclean, and the person which toucheth him shallbe unclean: ● wherefore come out from among them, and separate yourselves, and touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you, and I will be a Father unto you and ye shallbe my sons and daughters, saith the Lord almighty. So then the religious and well affected people must separate from the rest, if they would be acknowledged of God for his and not think by their holiness, to sanctify the profane.  
Again, it is as easy to make peace & agreement between Christ & the Devil, as between Christ and such open obstinate sinner's, the 
d 1 joh 3.10  children of the Devil; yea it overturneth at once the first promise of salvation made by God, and so the very ground of Christian religion. For when God first promised redemption to mankind; it was by Christ the 
e Gen 3.15  seed of the woman that should crush the serpent's head, who in due time appeared for this purpose, that he might 
f 1 I●h. 3, 8. Heb 2, 14.  lose the works of the Devil; & destroy and abolish him And as then the Lord put enmity between Christ and the serpent so did he also between him and the serpent's 
g Gen. 3, 15  seed that is wicked men, which being 
h. joh, 8, 44  children of the Devil would take the Diu●ls part to hate and kill Christ, and root out his children and religion: according to wh●ch decree and word of his Father, o●r Lord jesus set himself not only against the Serpent. but against s●ch wicked men also, as would not be turned from their impiety; therefore he saith by his prophet's 
i Psa, 139; 21, 22.  D●e not I hate them that hate thee o Lor●? &c, I hate th●m with an unfeigned hatred, as they were myn● utter enemies. I hate the assembly of e●il doers, and company not with the wicked; 
k Psa 26, 5  Betimes will I destroy all the wicked of th● land, that I may cut off all the workers of iniquity from the city of the Lord; 
l Psa. 101 8 Zach, 11, 8.  Three shepherds I cut of in one month, and my soul loathed loathed them, and their soul abhorred me: with many such like speeches, throughout the scriptures; whereby Christ showed how far he was and would be, from being head unto such wretches, or any way admitting them unto his body, or the communion of h●s Church. And for his arch-enemy the Roman Antichrist and his adherents, the Lord jesus Faithful and true that judgeth and warreth righteously, 
a Reu 19.11.14.  he with his heavenly warriors after him, fighteth with that Beast, and with the kings of the earth that make battle against him; and is so far from peace with them, as he giveth unto all the fowls of heaven for to eat, 
b ver. 18.  the flesh of the Kings & high captains, the flesh of mighty men, and of horses and those that sit on them, the flesh of all freemen and bondmen, of small and great; and casteth 
c ver, 20.  the beast into the lake of fire. By this may appear that Christ is no head of such Antichristians, nor of any other profane wicked worldlings; seeing his spirith gives them not life and motion, but they are carried by the spirit of Satan that possesseth them; and warred against with the sword that cometh out of Christ's mouth neither can they be knit unto him by joints or bands; as 
d Col 2, 19  all his body and members thereof ar: & consequently that the Popish and profane multitude of the Realm of England, which at Q. Mary's death, were made and esteemed a Church; and they and their seed ever since without separation so continuing; and at this day all the notorious wicked st●ll commingled with the rest; that this Church cannot be said to have Christ for the head, neither is it his body.  
Therefore the Church of England, is not the true Church of God.  
EVery true Church of God, hath Christ for the mediator and Advocate of the same. For it is written 
f 1 Tim 2, 5  there is one God, & on mediator between God & man, which is the man Christ jesus; and 
g 1 joh. 2, 1  if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, jesus Christ the just. Neither is there salvation in any other; for among men there is given no other name under heaven, whereby we must be saved, Act. 4.12.  
But the Church of England hath not Christ for the mediator and Advocate of the same, Because, Christ is not Mediator of any other covenant or testament, then that which God promised by his prophits to make with the house of Israel, nor of any other people, then of such as are under that covenant promised, which was g that he would put his law in their inward parts (or mind) and write it in their hearts, and be would be their God, and they should be his people, and that 
h Ier 31, ●3 Heb. 8, 10.  he would forgive their iniquity, and remember their sins no more. Of this new testament or covenant, established upon 
i ver, 34.  better promises than was the old, is Christ the Mediator, (as the Apostle 
k Heb, 8, 6.  teacheth) and not of any other humane or profane covenant, 
l Heb 9, 15.  made by or among the sons of Adam. Now that the Church of England, (as it is publicly and generally constituted,) is not as yet come under this covenant, may appear by the particular conditions of the same. First, let the exceeding profaneness and irreligion irreligion that is among them, the open contempt of God, blaspheming of h●s name, despising of his word, and innumerable wicked acts, without fear or shame committed, besides the idolatrous false worship performed by all in their public assemblies, according to their stinted popish leitoargie, learned and received from the Roman Antichrist: let these (I say) and the like, speak to every christian conscience, whither God's law be written in the mind or inward parts of such, which is one 
a Ier 31, 33  part of the co●enant, whereof Christ is Mediator; and which grace he promised by his 
b Eze. 36, 25, 26, 27, 28,  Prophets to bestow upon his Church and people, when he should be their God: and when the grace of God, that bringeth salvation unto all men, did appear; it 
c Tit, 2, 11 12,  taught so much.  
Secondly, that th●s church of England, hath no promise that their sins and iniquities are forgiven, which is 
d jer. 31, 3●  an other part of the covenant, appeareth by their impenitency in this evil estate. For the profane, scoff at repentance, and scorn all admonition, they despise wisdom's counsel, and such as reprove, they turn again and rend them. And for the idolatries and false worship of the whole; the great iniquities in the hierarchy ministry, orders, rites, ceremonies &c, they are far from repentance wh●ch will here no reproof, nor suffer any to speak against their corruptions, but have generally agreed and decreed such 
e eanons in anno. 1603 See also before pag. 56  to be excommunicated, as shall affirm any of these things to be wicked or idolatrous; and they that would call them to repentance for their sins, or refuse to communicate with them in these evils, are persecuted, imprisoned, banished, and have long suffered at their hands many calamities. And all people are forced by fair and colourable pretences or by threatening and punishments, to walk still in these sins. Thus want they the foundation of 
f Heb, 6, 1.  repentance from dead works, and consequently of faith towards God for without repentance there is no promise of pardon; & without promise, there can be no faith; and without faith; no covenant or testament confirme● with them or their seed, as all the scriptures show; & if no Covenant, than also no Mediator.  
Thirdly, that the sum of the Covenant, (namely 
g Heb, 8, 10  I will be their God and th●y shall be my people;) is wanting also unto these, may be seen by the●r estate compared with th' Apostles doctrine, who upon 
h 2 Cor, 6 16.  this promise's, presently inferreth 
vers. 17.  a coming out, and separation of themselves, from the world, if they would have the Lord to receive them. Which separation from the ungodly, as it was not at the 
k As in the former argument is showed  first constituting of this Church observed, so unto this day it is resisted, and pleaded against, and the holy scriptures unsufferable abused to mayteyn a confuse mixed multitude of all sorts of people to be a true church. But, Christ is no Mediator for such a mixture, as himself said to his Father 
l joh. 17, 9 16.  I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me for th●y are thin●; and they are not of the world, as I am not of the world.  
Fourthly the Church of England is not under this co●enan●, because every every covenant is made upon conditions wllingly agreed and assented unto on both parties, as was in that covenant 
a Exo●. 19 Deut. 26, 1●, 18.  made between God and the Israelites of old. For God being a spirit, must be covenanted w●th & worshipped in 
b 1 Cor 6, 17 joh. 4.24,  spirit, he requireth the hart and mind, which if it be not freely given him, all religion is in vain. But this hearty and willing submission 
c Psa 110.3  foretold to be, and 
d Acts, 41,  seen in God's people heretofore, was not seen in this Church, which was by law of man compelled, not by love of Christ constrained to enter into this communion and religion, at the beginning of Q Elis reign, as in the former argument is showed. Such complusion unto religion, where God persuadeth not the hart, maketh men hypocrites, not true christians: which not only God's word, but even l●ght of reason teacheth, as Themistius a Philosopher acknowledged, when he said of state professors, that follow the Emperor's religions, that 
e Non Deum sed, our puram coluisse Socrat hist. eccles l 3. c 1.  they worship not God, but the purple robe, that is the authority and persons of Prince's.  
Moreover the church of England hath not Christ for their Mediator, because they cannot come unto God by him, nor have assurance by faith that he maketh intercession for them; for that they offer unto God, a worship or service which themselves have made and taken by imitation out of Antichrists Massebook; which Liturgy or Divine service, having in it also many erroneous, superstitious and idolatrous ordinances, rites, and ceremonies,) being not required of God, nor warrantable by Christ's testament; they read out of their book daily in the●r assemblies, and offer or obtrude ●t upon God. By means whereof they also extinguish the true way of calling upon God, by the help of his sp●rit, (as the Apostle 
f Rome, 8, 26.  teacheth; and bring in a fleshly and dead kind of service, reading other men's words instead of their own praying and calling on the name of the Lord. Which humane devise, is contrary to the second commandment, that forbiddeth us to make or submit unto any similitude or likeness of any thing in heaven, 
Exod. 20,  earth or under the earth, in matters concerning the worship of God. And it, being against the old covenant or testament, which Christ hath confirmed unto 
g Mat, 5.17.18 19  every ●od and 〈◊〉; against the new testament also, which calleth us unto a worship of God, 
h joh. 4.24 Phil. 1.3,  in spirit and truth: hath no promise to be sanctified by Christ's Mediation, who sanctifieth no idols, nor idol service or false worship, but contrariweise hath testified, 
i Psal 16.4  their offerings of blood, will I not offer, nor by make mention of their names with my lips. For as much then, as the people which worshippeth, is not the called, justified, sanct●fied pe●ple of G●d; but an unlawful commixture 〈◊〉 fall sorts of person's, and forasmuch as the worship itself which they read with and before ●he holy bible, and thrust upon God whither he like it or not, is a false dead and vain invented worship of their own, not commanded of God not justifiable by his word: it cannot be by the doctrine of the scripture or a any promises therein, that Christ should be Mediator for such worship or worshipp●rs, or put any 
a Rev. 8.3,  odours unto such prayers.  
Therefore the church of England is not the true church of God.  
EVery true church of God, hath Christ for the Prophet of the same For of 〈◊〉 it is written, I will raise them up a Prophet from among th●ir brethren etc. and every person which shall not hear that Prophet shallbe desered 〈◊〉 the people. D●ut, 18.18. Act, 3 23.  
But th●●hurch of England hath not Christ for the Prophet of the same. Because it hath neither himself in his own person, to teach them, (for he is now in hea●en, and there must be 
b Act 3, 21.  until the time that all things be restored;) neither hath it his appointed ordinance of teaching by 
c Rome 12.6 7  prophecy or office; which if it had, Christ were the Prophet of the same, as himself said 
d joh 13.20  if I send any, he that receiveth him receiveth me. The church of England h●th not Christ's ordinance of prophecy without office; for it is unknowen, unpractised, and unsufferable among them, for private men to preach in their assemblies, they must be ministers allowed by the Ordinary, else it is punishable by the law of their church, though by the law of Christ, all men may prophesy in his church, which is to speak to edifying, to exhortation and to comfort, and all men are exhorted to covet this more than other spiritual gifts. 1. Cor. 14 vers. 31.3.1.39, Neither hath the ch●rch of England Christ's appointed officers to teach, which are set down in scripture to be these, Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists Pastors, and Teachers, Ephe 4.11. (Of which the first three served for the first publishing of the gospel throughout the world; 
See for this point of the ministry of England, an other treatise purposely handling this argument: intiled Reasons &c. showing that it is not lawful to hear the Ministry of England.  the latter two continue st●ll unto the world's end,) but in stead of these it hath the hierarchy and ministry of Antichrist to teach the same; namely Metropolitan Archbishops, Lord Bishops', Deans etc. Priests; and Deacons; which is none of Christ's Ministry, either in name, office, calling, administration or maintenance, but the very ministry of the man of sin as he left it in the land, and as is to be seen at this day in Rome and other his dominions, and in the laws and canons of the popish church, where are all the offices that now be in England. Thus having not the ministry given of Christ, but a different ministry given of Antichrist, it followeth also by proportion from Christ's words, saying he that receiveth him (that I send) 
c joh 13, 20  receiveth me, and he that receiveth me, receiveth him that sent me: that the church of England receiving such as Antichrist the Pope did send hath received Antichrist himself, and so hath entertained him for their Prophet and not Christ.  
Now where it is objected, that there are many excellent truths publicly taught in this church and by this ministry of England; it is answered that is not enough unless it were taught in and according to the ordinance of God. For false Prophets teach much truth, as is to be seen among Papists, Anabaptists, Arians, and other like heretics. And as the moral good works which heathens do, in honouring their parents and Magistrates, giving almose, abstaining from and punishing murder, adultery, theft, etc. are not indeed good works, according to christian religion, because they are not done in obedience to God's word, by persons that are called justified and sanctified by that word, and so not done in faith, and consequently 
a Heb 11.6  cannot please God: even so the theological works which Antichristians do, in preaching the truth, praying, ministering the sacraments, etc. are not indeed, works pleasing unto God, because they are not done by persons that please him, (for always the 
b 
Gen 4, 4, 5  
Heb, 11.4.   man must be accepted before his work can be;) and such persons please him not, as without his 
c Heb, 5, 4.  calling and 
d Rome, 10, 15,  sending presume to administer his holy things. It is not therefore the work, but the word of God that sanctifieth the work, which we must look unto; for as by this the virtuous heroik and religious acts of the Patriarches and other holy men, differ from the like acts of Pagans, and infidels: so also by this, the difference i● to be put between the works and administrations of tr●e and false Christians. And seeing the ministers of England are not by Christ called and sent, (as the better sort of themselves heretofore have confessed,) & so have not his word to warrant their administration: whatsoever good doctrine they teach, it proves them no more to be true ministers, than the excellent doctrines and prophecies of the soothsayer 
e Num. 23  Balaam, will prove him to be a true minister of God, or that the Moabites or Madianites having him to sacrifice, prophecy and teach among them, had an ordinance or prophet of God. See Deut. 18, 10.11.14.15. etc.  
Again Christ is not the Prophet of this church, because a great part of his word and scriptures, and of the graces of his spirit, are here never spoken nor heard nor suffered to be uttered: and contrariweise much of man's word and writing is brought in; as Aprocryphas books made of old the Service and homily books made of late, in which also there be manifest 
f Th●se things are more particularly manifested in other treatises as Di●c●u, of the false Ch. Refut of Mr Gifford. And by the Ministers themselues See among other The Abridgement of the book which the Ministers of Lincolnsh delivered to his Majesty, printed. 1605  errors, l●es contradictions to the holy scriptures, idolatrous and and superstitious doctrines, rites, ceremonses &c. taught unto and observed, by th' priests & people, an idle & soul-murthering ministry maintained, Chr●sts spiritual graces given for teaching and building up his church, quenched, with other like evils. The proof of this may be seen in their communion book, whose Calendar allotteth what is to be read daily and yearly in all their Assemblies: where many chapters of the Bible are wholly and perpetually excluded, many Apocrypha chapters read as holy scriptures. And by the written homilies, the graces and utterance of God's spirit are extinguished that man's erroneus writing may come in place. Besides this all preaching Ministers so 
g, See their own confess. before pag, 35,  limited and restrained in their doctrine that they may not preach against any sin by public authority established, and if they do, they are silenced 
h See before pag, 56,  excommunicated &c. this indignity and dishonour Christ will not suffer at man's hands, to have his word and man's word matched together, his spirit spirit & truth restrained: he willbe Prophet alone or not at al. as they that with the tr●e God and his true worship, had other Gods also, & other worships, are said in scripture to 
a Is● 1, ●●, 1, 1●, ●▪ 13, etc.  forsake the true God, and to b● 
b 2 Chro. 15 3,  without him: so they that with the true Prophet and doctor Christ and his doctrine, have other also; may rightly be said to have forsaken him and to be without him. For when men set their thresholds by the Lords and their posts by his; they 
c Eze 43.8  defile his holy name with their abominations, and in 
d Mat 15.9  vain they worship him, that teach such doctrines as be precepts of men  
Moreover thi● Church wanteth part and communion with Christ in that prophetical office, which he hath imparted to his people, namely power and freedom 
e Isa. 43, 10  to witness, 
f 2 Cor 4.13  profess, 
g, Mat. 28.20.  practice, and 
h Phillip 2, 16  hold forth the word of life, and all that Christ hath commanded; to 
i, Rome, 15, 14.  admonish & 
k Levit, 19 17. Luk, 7.3  reprove one another for sin and transgression, and either if they repent to 
l Mat, 18, 16.17.  forgive them, or if they repent not, to follow them further 
m joh 17, 17  unto the church and even to excommunication for their obstinate violating God's law. That they have not power or freedom to profess and practise the truth of the Gospel in these things, appeareth by their servile subjection to the hierarchy, laws and canons which are amongst them, whereby they are restrained from professing and practising any further truth than is by law established among them, but must obey & follow all that their spiritual Lords the Bishops do enjoin them, and may not speak against or reprove any of the abominations that are in their church worship, Ministry, ceremonies etc. neither have power to deal according to that rule of Christ Mat. 18 15. &c, for any sin, be it never so horrible and manifest, but must leave it to the censure of the Prelate or hi● Commissarie, who at his pleasure buyeth and selleth the sins and souls of men. This bondage the people should not be in if they had and enjoined the word of God, which is 
joh 8, 32  the truth; for that truth would make them free, that they should not in this sort be 
o, 1, Cor, 7 23,  servants of men. But now not ha●ing power to profess, much less to practise the truth: nor to reprove the evils that reign among them; not having the free use of God's word in private, nor the right and lawful Ministry or use thereof in public; they cannot be said to have Christ for their Prophet, and Therefore the Church of England, is not the true Church of God.  
EVery true Church of God hath Christ for the Priest and Sacrificer of the s●me, for he only is the high Priest of our profession, and to him it was sworn, thou art a Priest for ever, after the order of Melchisedek. Heb, 3, 1, &, 5.5, 6, 10, &, 9, 11. etc.  
But the Church of England hath not Christ for the Priest or sacrificer of the s●me. Because the gifts and sacrifices which it offereth unto God, are not presented and offered unto him by Christ; neither is this church reconciled reconciled unto God by him. And first the worship and service which they perform unto God, their prayers, praises and confe●sions, (which now are Christ●an men's 
a Heb 13.5 Psal. 69, 30.31.  sacrifices,) are not offered and sanctified by Christ, because they are false and idolatrous, wherewith Christ hath no communion. For ●nstead of true spiritual prayer and praises the fruits of God's spirit in his ●eo●le; they read a written liturgy translated out of the Mass book: and according as they are stinted in the same, they speak; observing also the many Popish ordinances, rites, and ceremonies commanded in the same, as their holy and festival days, holy eves and fasting d●yes, absolution of sins by their priests, confirmation of Baptism by the●r Prelates, profanation of the Sacraments by pri●ate administration and howsling with them, by gossips, by idolatrous signs and gestures of cro●●e, kneeling &c. also marrying by the Priest with sign of the ring, churching of women, burial of the dead, reading curses or comminations in stead of discipline, besides the sundry errors and untruths in that book, vain repet●tions in their prayers, and the like. All which being commanded and used daily by law of their church, without ground from God's word, which approveth none of these idolatries but condemneth them; are not sanctified by Christ nor presented unto God hi● Father; For he will 
b Psa, 16.4  not offer the idol sacrifices, neither will God accept such things as by his 
c Exo. 20, 4 5. Leu. 18.3.4.  law he teacheth all men to abhor.  
Secondly; whereas the bodies and souls of men are also spiritual 
d Rome 12, 1  and li●ing sacrifices, and the persons offered in the Church by the Ministry of the Gospel, should be as the 
e Ezek 36 38.  holy fl●ck, as the flock of jerusalem in their solemn feasts, that so the oblation of them might be acceptable 
f Rome, 15.16.  being sanctified by the holy Ghost: the people offered in this church are a confuse unsanctified multitude, not separated from the world, (as before in the first argument 
Isa 66, 20.  is showed,) and many of them so wicked, (even by the confession of their 
g pag, 74.  own ministers, and in every honest man's conscience, 
h See before pag, 2.  as they neither deseru to be laid on Gods alter, nor to be touched of any true Israelite in such respect. Yet are they by the Priests of this church offered daily unto God, in their administration, and blessed in his name. Yea the precious sacrifice of the body and blood of Christ (remembered and represented by 
i 1 Cor: 11, 24.26.  bread and wine at his supper,) is prostitut●● as if it were an unholy thing) to the profane and wicked in this church, which being unworthy receivers, are 
k verse, 27,  guilty of the body and blood of Chr●st as were the wretche● that crucified h●m. Also Baptism which should be an engraffing into Christ 
l Rome 6, 3.4.5,  his death burial and resurrection, and a s●gne 
m 
Act 22, 16,  
1 joh, 1.7.   of washing away men's sins in his blood; is given to the seed of the ungodly, blasphemers, and enemies of Christ, unto whom by no right it doth appertain. Which sacrilegious profanation of the holy mysteries, showeth a manifest contempt of Christ represented in them: who as he communicateth not himself with such wicked persons so neither the signs and seals of himself and the redemption that he wrought for his elect. For by his suffering he consecrated them only that are 
a H●b 10, 14  sanctified, that by 
b joh 6, 53.35,  faith do eat his flesh and drink his ●lood, & the wicked which have no portion in his death and oblation, when they participate in these seals of grace, do but eat and drink judgement to themselves; the ministers which so prostitute Christ unto the teeth of his enemies, and tread under foot the son of God, if they repent not shall not escape his hand wh●ch said, 
c Heb 10.29 30.  Vengeance is mine, I will repay: & the people which by an imaginary separation are or seem to be sundered from those profane, and yet communicate together in such things, do even by that action show that they are one body with them; for so it is written, we that are many, are one bread and one body, because we all are partakers of one bread. 1 Cor 10, 17.  
This bringing of Satan's seed into the church, unto the altar of God, may further be minded as a high degree of violating the second commandment, whereby all images idols and simillitudes whatsoever, of the Devils or men's invention or forming, are severely forbidden to be brought into God's house, or used in his worship. Now such images or Idols, are these wicked persons. For as children are the 
d Gen, 5, 3.  images of their parents; and all fa●thfull people called the 
e Deut 14.1  children of God, are Gods lively images in Christ, whose 
f Rom 8.29,  image and simillitude they carry, himself being truly and properly the sole 
g Col, 1.15.  image of the invisible God his Father, and they all being borne a new of him, are changed 
h 2 Cor 3.18  into the same image from glory to glory, as by the spirit of the Lord, being renewed in knowledge after 
i Col. 3.10  the image of him that created them so Satan's children, (as wicked worldlings be called in scripture,) are his lively images, having lost the first image of God, 
k Gen, 1, 27  wherein they were created; and into the image of the Serpent are changed daily by his spirit that ruleth in them; and him they represent in his malicious nature and actions. As it is sin, and so esteemed, to have images and representations, of beasts, of fowls, of fishes, etc. brought into the church and worship of God: so would and well might it be esteemed more horrible if in any Christian congregation, there should be brought in pictures of the Devil or other like hellish representations. Yet men will not see the horror of this sin, that the living images and pictures of the Serpent, even wicked and profane people, his seed and children, should be brought into the Church and worship of God, to have part and interest in Christ and his covenant, whether he will or not; to be offered unto God & laid upon his altar for spiriritual sacrifices: though they be much more abominable than unclean beasts were under the law, as the 
l Act 10.11 12.28, Levit. 11,  substance or figured thing, is more than the figure and shadow.  
But doubtless God, who abhorreth all idols and religious images of humane devise; and Christ, who would not 
m Esa 16, 4  offer the bloody sacrifices of idolaters; abhorreth this confusion of Satan's images within his church neither will the highpriest after the order of Melchisedek, offer such to his Father, or be priest unto them. Otherwise he should not be so faithful in the house of God, as w●s Aaron, nor the sacrifice; of the Gospel, be so holy as the shadows of the law, which 
a Leu. 22.19, 20.  were unblemished.  
Finally, all that have Christ for their Priest, are by him to bring their sacrifices for their sins unto God, that so atonement may be made through his intercession. For every high Priest is 
b Heb. 5.1.  ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer gifts and sacrifices for sins; and every man is apppointed of God to present his sacrifice 
c Leu 17, 5  by the Priest, who is to 
d Leu 4, 26  make atonement for him concerning his sin, that it may be forgiven him. But the church of England, (in as much as it persisteth in sin, and will not repent of the many transgressions daily committed in their public worship and administration of holy things, refuseth reconciliation by him who is the 
e Heb, 9, 11  high Priest of good things to come; and 
f Heb 7.25  able perfectly to save them that come unto God by him. This their impenitency appeareth not only by their perseverance in evil doin●, notwithstanding all the a●monitions and reproofs that have sounded in their ears these many years,) but above all, by their ungodly Canons & constitutions made by the whole representative church of Engl: and submitted unto by the rest of the people. Whereby they publish unto all the world, how they are hardened in their evils, that excommunicate punish and persecute all that s●eak against or refuse to communicate with their people, prelacy, priesthood, worship, ceremonies, etc. wherein are so many sins and idolatries.  
For as much then as the public service and sacrifice of this church is idolatrous, the holy mysteries, of Christ profaned, the people unsanctified, and their sins unrepented of; there is no word or promise in scripture that Christ is the Priest or sacrificer of such worship or worshippers  
Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of God.  
EVery true church of God, hath Christ for the King thereof; For of him the Father saith 
g Psal, 2.6.  I have set my King upon Zion my holy, mountain; and he must r●ign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet, and shall sit vpon the throne of David & upon his kingdom, 
h 1 Cor, 15 24.  to order it and to establish it with judgement and with justice, from henceforth even for ever, Isa. 9.7.  
But the church of England hath not Christ for the King thereof. first, because it hath not these officers which he hath apppointed to govern his, church under him, namely, 
i Eph. 4, 11, 1●. 1 Tim. 5.17.  Pastors, Teachers, and Elders: but in stead of them it hath the hierarchy or prelacy of Antichrist, Archbishops, Lord Bishops, Chane●llors, Archdeacon's, Commissaries, etc. who reign or tyrannize over the souls of men by their unlawful jurisdiction, ruling over many Churches making them constitutions and canons prescribing them words, both for prayer and doctrine; summoning, censuring censuring, excommunicating, absolving, both priests and people, making and deposing ministers, giving the holy Ghost excercising also civil offices in the common wealth, and carrying the titles both of Christ, and of the Gods, 
a Psa, 82.6  the Magistrates, into whose places they intrude‘ having no warrant for their spiritual Lordships in the Testament of Christ. Secondly, because this church hath not the Laws and statutes of Christ for to govern the same; for although they have the holy Bible among them, yet are not the ordinances therein written, practised or suffered to be practised in these assemblies. As for an instance, the way and means which Christ hath apppointed for repressing of sin (that enemy which his sceptre always 
b Rom. 6, 6 etc.  beateth down) namely first 
c Mat 18.15 16, etc.  private admonition. Secondly with witnesses, Thirdly by telling the Church, and then if the sinner be not reclaimed, casting him out or delivering 
d 1 Cor 5.4, 5.12.13  him to Satan by the power of our Lord jesus Christ, given to every congregation; this holy and orderly walking, is unknowen, this power is wanting in all these Parishes, who cannot excommunicate any person be he never so profane wicked or blasphemous. But contrariweise ●ll must repair to the Bishop's Chancellors or Commissaries courts, where things are handled and judged according to their own laws and canons, and not by the rules of Christ.  
Thirdly, because the people of this church were and are (even by the confession of our adversaries) of all sorts of people, as well wicked as Godly, and sins of all sorts do abound and reign among them that if the good laws of the common wealth did not repress them, there would be no living in peace among them. Such profane worldly people. are not the subjects of Christ, his kingdom is 
e joh 18.36  not of the world, neither is it 
f Reu. 21.27.  for the open wicked, but for the 
g Mar, 1, 15  repentant and believing, for the 
h Mat, 5, 3 etc.  poor in spirit, the meek, the merciful, the persecuted for righteousness; sake not for persecuters haters & contemners of the truth. If thus it should be then were Christ's kingdom divided in & against itself, and so could 
i Luk 11, 17  not endure & be perpetual, as the scripture saith 
k Dan 7, 14  it shallbe. For both by the oracle of God, Gen 3, and by experience we learn and see there is continual war between the woman's seed and the serpents, Christians and the Antichristians, the children of God and the children of Belial or impiety so that the having of such sinful in the church, is the bane and ruin of Christ's kingdom and religion. The covenant made with the house of David (on whose throne 
l Luk 1, 32 33.  Christ sitteth for ever) is an everlasting covenant 
m 2 Sam, 23, 5,  perfect in all points & sure, but the wicked shallbe every one 
n verse, 6, ●  as thorns thrust away, because they cannot be taken with hands, but the man that shall touch them must be defended with iron and with the shaft of a spear: and they shall be burnt with fire in the same place.  
Finally, this Church wanteth Christ's power against Sin, Satan, and ●ntichrist; if any would deal against sin and sinner's, he hath no w●y, but by complaint to the Antichristian spiritual courts. (for the civil magistrate punisheth civilly, and not with ecclesiastical censure, which is the power and sceptre whereof we speak,) and if those courts refuse to censure the sinner (as they seldom cast out any except it be for well doing, or not appearing at their Summons,) there is no redress of any evil among them As for ecclesiastical matters, and the many abuses and abominations that are in the church, ministry, worship, ceremonies etc. the Priests and people of the parishes are in bondage to the Prelates, in servile subjection to their ungodly decrees, censures and cursing Canons; no spiritual Christian power have they against this tyranny, but are fayn to seek to the arm of flesh, the Prince and Parliament, for redress; who if they refuse or neglect to help them; then remain they under the Prelates Antichristian yoke still, as hath now appeared by their practice these many years. But if they had Christ for their King, his 
a joh. 8.32  truth, his word, would make them free, he would make them also 
b Reu. 1, 6.  Kings and Priests unto God his Father; that howsoever the supressing & abolishing of this unruly hierarchy with their many abominations, is to be left unto the Magistrate who only hath power from God 
c Rom. 13.3, &c  to execute this vengeance, yet every man should deliver 
d jer. 51.6.  his own soul, abstaining 
e Deut. 5, 7 8.9, &c  from error, false worship, superstition, popish thraldom & all other evil whatsoever, though with 
f 2 Tim 3, 12  affliction, bonds, banishment etc. and stand fast in the liberty 
g Gal. 5, 1.  wherewith Christ hath made him free, without yoke of thraldom. For he will reign in the midds 
h Psa 110.1  of his enemies; Satan and sin he hath subdued, as for himself so for all his people and subjects, whom he hath redeemed out of all Satanean and Balylonian bondage, that sin should reign 
h Psa 110.1  no more over them. But if they forsak this freedom, & take vpon them th' yoke of Antichrist, his seruants they are 
i Rome 6.14 22.  to whom they obey, Which this church doing to the Antichristian Prelates whom they acknowledge for their spiritual Lords, receiving and obeying their hests and canons, retaining and nourishing such as be enemies and rebels against Christ, 
k Rome 6.16  and remaining in spiritual bondage: cannot be said to have Christ for their King and Lawgiver, Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of God.  
THE sum of all that which hath been said, is this, That Church which hath not Christ for th' Head, Mediator, Prophet Priest & King of the same; hath not God his Father for God of the same: because the Father and the son are one. joh. 10. ●0, and whosoever hath not the Son hath not the Father, 1 joh. 2 23.3 joh, 9  
But the Church of England hath not Christ for the head, Mediator, Prophet, Priest or King of th' same as by the former Arguments hath been proved.  
Wherefore it hath not God the Father for God of the same, and consequently is not his Church.  
THat church which is not the true church of Christ and of God; ought not by any true Christian to be continued or communicated with: but must be forsaken & separated from; & a true church of God sought and joined unto, where Christ and salvation by him, may undoubtedly be had. Because we are willed to abstain and separate from the false church, 2, Cor 6 1●, 17; Reu. 18, 4 Hos 4.15. Isa. 48, 20. Ier 51.45, Zach. 2.6, 7, 1 Cor 10.20, 1, etc. We are willed also to seek and join unto a true church, Deut. 12, 5 Song. 1.6. Ier 50 4, 5. Isa, 65, 9 Psal. 26, 5.6, & 87, 2, 5 6, Act, 2, 47.  
But the church of Engl. is before proved not to be the true church of Christ and of God. Therefore it ought to be separated from; & a true church sought for, and joined to, of such as would be saved.  
THose Ministers which have and execute the ministry of a falls church are not the true ministers of Christ, & consequently not to be heard or obeyed as shepherds of our souls. Because the ministry of a false church, must needs be false also, seeing the church having no interest in Christ, can have no interest in a Christian ministry. Besides Christ hath given his ministry to his own church only, Eph 4.11.12, 14.15, 16. 1 Cor. 12, 27, 28. See also joh, 10.1, 4.5, Act, 20, 28. joh. 21, 15, 16.  
But all the ministers of the church of England, have and execute the ministry of a falls church; for so by the former arguments that church is proved.  
Therefore they are not the true ministers of Christ, and consequently not to be heard or obeyed as shepherds of our souls.  
For the further descrying of the false ministry of this church, I refer the (good reader) to a treatise lately published entitled, Reasons and Arguments proving that it is not lawful to hear the Ministry of Engl.  
And to an other heretofore published, called A treatise of the Ministry of the Church of England.  
I will put enmity between thee (o Serpent) and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: He, shall crush thy head; and thou, shalt crush his heel. Gen. 3.15.  
Forasmuch as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also (Christ) himself likew●ise took part of the same: that through death he might abolish him that had the power of death, that is, the Devil; and that he might deliver them all which fo● fear of death all their life time were subject to bondage. Heb. 2.14: 15.  
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his Angels warred against the Dragon; the Dragon also warred, & his Angels; but prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven And cast was the great Dragon, that old Serpent, called Devil and Satan, that deceiveth the whole world: cast was he into the earth, and his Angels were cast with him Reu, 12.7.8, 9   

A BRIEF ANSWER TO Mr BERNARD'S BOOK; ENTITLED, The Separatists Schism.  
WHen the former treatise was almost finished; among other adversary's Mr Bernard cometh forth to fight against the truth, which but a while since he would needs seem to favour: but things not succeeding to his expectation, he hath changed his love into hatred, And in the bitterness of his zeal, he ha●h sent out a treatise containing Dissuasions from the practice of the Gospel, which he pleaseth to call The separatists schism, or Brownism. Though in his book there be little weight of reason or truth to be seen, nor any thing which may grealy trouble a discreet reader, who is but meanly acquainted without cause: yet both for the stopping of the man's mouth, if it may be, who maketh hue and cry after some of us, as in his Prooeme to the reader he proclaimeth; and for help of the simple who may be offended at the truth, not discerning his fraud. I thought it needful to observe and answer briefly, the principal things by him objected; many of which are before in this treatise, and in other books more largely refuted; and all of ●hem may, if need require, hereafter by some other, be particularly refelled. Herein now the Lord give me wisdom, to discover this adversaries falsehood; and thee (good reader) understanding to discern it.  

Of his PROBABILITIES,  
THE first means whereby Mr BERNARD would dissuade from the truth, which he calleth Brownism, are Probabilities or likelihoods that the way is not good: and they are in number (as himself hath cast them,) seven.  

1. The Novelty of it.  
2. The agreement thereof with ancient schismatiks.  
3. The ill means by which it is mayteyned, namely, by abuse of scripture & deceivable reasonning.  
4. The want of approbation of the reformed Churches.  
5. The condemnation thereof by all their Divines, (vidz of the church of England.)  
6. God's judgement against it  
7. The ●ll success it hath had.   
Such likelihoods as these, the Papists heretofore with as much colour and truth, have alleged against the church of England; heathens and enemies have in former ages objected the l●ke things to the church of Christ, and Mr Ber. speaketh but that which hath been spoken before him, fulfilling the measure of his forefathers. But to the particulars.  
The Novelty he maketh to be in differing from all the best reformed churches in Christendom But if a Papist had to deal with him, 
1 Liklihood  
a See Kelli sons Survey of the new religion 1 b●ok chap, 1 5, & 2, book c. 2.  he would bring those reformed churches also within the compass of Novel●y: and then Mr Bern. would flee, (as his brethren before him have done) to the scriptures for antiquity: as he would answer a Papist, so w●ll I answer him; let the scriptures speak for the differences between other churches and us. But here Mr Bern. is mute; and meddleth not with th●s controversy he thought belike the very name of Novelty and of the reformed churches would fray the simple  
If it be Novelty to differ from the reformed churches, then may he blame his own church ●f Engl. more than us, seeing it differeth from those churches in m●e and weightier points than we do: yea it hateth persecuteth silemceth & excommunicateth those ministers & people, that stand up & plead for such things as the reformed churches have and practise. Again these churches have rejected and written against many of the Antichristian enormities that are now in England. So if it be likely, we are not in the truth because we d●ffer from the churches in few things; it is more likely Mr Bern. and his brethren, are not in the truth, because they differ from them in many Wherefore let him first pull the beam out of his own eye. Again where he standeth upon the hard words which some of us have uttered of the Presbytery etc. if he had not an evil and partial eye he might have seen many moe hard & reproachful words used by his right reverend Fathers, and fellow priests against the Presbytery and discipline which the reformed churches have, and the reforming ministers of Engl. would have. That still his weapon entereth into his own bowels.  
His 2 likelihood he maketh to be our agreement with ancient schismatiks: yet any points wherein we agree with them in evil, 
Likeliehood.  he nameth not much le●●e proveth; but referreth us to Mr Giffords' pains herein, who had long since his answer by Mr Greenwood to every particular of that his pretended consimillitude between the Donatists and us; to which answer I refer the reader. Again, this objection is such as the Papists make against the church of England for so 
b The three conversions of Engl. par● 2 c. 12 s. 19 etc.  N. D. compareth Protestant's with Donatists; and let us see what answer the Priests of England can make for themselves that will not as well, if not better, clear us And to come a little near to this o●r adversary, we could p●t Mr Ber. in mind of his own ways, wherein he might see himself more like a schismatik than any of us: for we openly profess our departure fr●m the ch●rch of England, as from a false church, so proved by evident grounds out of G●ds word; whereas Mr Bernard holding it to be a true ch●rch & ab●ding in it, yet he and a hundred with him, made not long since a pretended co●enant together; whereby they separated from the unpreaching ministers, and all that hate to be reform Yet are those rea●ing priests of as ●ood authority by the Laws and Canons of that Church as himself, and the Conformists of far greater esteem in this church, than the Reformists. Whether this be not a plain schism, and Mr Bern a factious person thus to carry h●mselfe in a church, let himself say: as also whether he be not f●r this, ipso ●acto excommunicated, by force of the●r own Canon which saith,  

Constit, & Can. eccles. 1603. Can 9  Whosoever shall hereafter separate themselves from the Communion of Saints as it is approved by the Apostles rules in the Church of England, and combine themselves together in a new brotherhood, accounting the Christians who are conformable to the doctrine, governments, rites and ceremonies of the church of England to be profane and unmeet for them to join with in Christian profession: let them be excommunicated ipso facto, and not restored but by the Archbishop after their repentance and public revocation of such their wicked errors. Into like danger doth he come by Canon. 11, and 12.  

● Likeliehood.  The i'll means, by which our cause is maintained, he makes to be strange exposition of scripture, etc.  
First Mr Bern. here walketh still in the Papists steps, who object the like unto the Protestants. Let an indifferent reader (
a Kellis, Survey, 1. book chap, 5  say they) peruse the learnedst book of these reformers, and he shall see in them false allegations of Fathers, corruptions of scriptures, fathers, and counsels etc. Sec●●dly I answer our expositions may seem strange to such as are themselves strangers from God: but the Godly wise can discern, to whom (if they have read our books,) I lean the judging of this probability. Now th●s old calumniation which Satan laid vpon the Saint, how truly Mr B●rn. hath laid upon us, let his proofs show, which are in these two particulars. First, that one of us saith, All the truth is not taught in the Church of E●gland, and to prove this, Act. 20 21. is cited. Which one of us thus citeth Act. 20 and where; Mr Bern. nameth not. Good cause we have to suspect his faithfulness; for in his book he chargeth us with some errors, which we hold not, as after shall appear. And he that would so injury the whole, what may we think he w●ll do for a part. I suppose therefore the party cited that scripture to prove the whole truth ought to be taught which because it may be questioned whether it be needful at all times, therefore the Apostles example is brought. As for the Priests of England, 〈◊〉 they preach not the whole truth, is proved by their daily practice, who balk many truths, touching the church, ministry worship, government etc. as all that observe their doctrines know very well. It is proved also by the laws and canons of their church, which excommunicate ●ll such as shall by the truth reprove the falsehoods and abominations that are among them, as before in 
a pag, 55.  this treatise is showed. And Mr Bern. is very silly, if he expect any scriptures to prove what is now taught in his church. Furthermore if it be granted him, that Act. 20. were by some one of us alleged for the purpose he pretend●th: yet it is no more likelihood that our cause is evil, then that his brethren's cause and plea against us is evil, for they without all doubt do allege scriptures for to prove things done in Engl: which it is not possible by the scriptures for to show, See before in this book pag. 43. &c 44. But what speak I of others Mr Bern, himself is fayn to use such colours, else would the glory of his church soon fade: for in the 48, page of his book he allegeth God for witness that they are his people, 1 by giving them his word, Psa, 147.19 20. 2 by his effectual working thereby, Ier, 22, 22, therefore there is the voice of the son of God, joh. 5.25, etc. If these be found and sufficient proofs, that England hath God's word, because Israel had it, and so in the rest; then why may not men allege like Scriptures and proofs against them, saying, They are stained with their own works, and go a whoring with their own inventions; Psal. 106, 39 from the Prophets of jerusalem, is hypocrisy gone forth into all the Land, jer. 23.15, I have not sent these Prophets saith the Lord: yet they ran etc. jer. 23.21. and the like. So then Mr Bern. must either bring better reasons for himself, or else he may blush to blame others for that wherein himself is more faulty than they; if they be faulty at all.  
The other particular which he specifieth is, that places setting forth the invisible church etc. we bring to set forth the visible church by; as namely; 1. Pet. 2.9, 10. But Mr Bern. shows his reader no reason at all, why that Scripture must be understood of the invisible church, as he Saith; and it is an easy matter for him to find faults without reason, in any mans writing. That place of Peter, (as the wise reader may perceive,) Speaketh of and to the visible or Sensible church: for th' Apostle wrote to the visible christians, the 
b 1 Pet, 1.1  strangers that then dwelled in Pontus Galatia, etc. and this which he speaketh to them in Chap· 2, 9.10. is as Moses of old spoke to the visible church of Israel, Exod. 19: 6. Again, he mentioneth the end of their calling to this dignity, vidz. to show forth the virtues of him that had called them out of darkness into his marvellous light; which whether it appertains not to the visible church, I leave it for every true member thereof to judge. And such as these, 
4 Likelihod.  are the exceptions that D. Allison (to whom he referreth us,) took heretofore: which because they are unworthy a Dr. of Divinity, we have though best to pass by, as unworthy of reply, till further occasion.  
The 4. likelihood is, that we have not the approbation of any reformed churches Churches for our cause. This is much like his first probability, before answered, and seemeth to be a main prop to uphold the church of England, which love to make flesh their arm. The reader may see this point 
Pag. 9 & ●7, &, 51. pag. 10 & 27, &c 〈◊〉 7, &, 51. &c  thrice urged before in this book, and 
Apol part 6 ●. 18. 〈◊〉. 1.  thrice answered. I refer him also to our Letters unto Mr junius whom Mr Bern. mentioneth: & finally to the Apology of the church of England, where themselves say, unto the like objections of the Papists, 
●, Likelihood  th● truth of the Gospel of jesus Christ dependeth not upon counsels, (add also, nor upon Churches;) nor as S. Paul saith, upon the judgements of mortal creatures.  
The 5. is, the condemnation of this way by the Divines (of England) both living and dead, etc. But this is no other likelihood than it is like Mr Bern. (if he had then lived) would have alleged against Christ himself, when the learned Priests, Rabbins, and Divines of Israel, condemned his way and doctrine joh. 7.48.49. & 19, 7. etc. If these learned English Divines have confuted us, let Mr Bern. or any show the scriptures and reasons by which they have done it: if they were our adversaries without reason, (as some of them he mentioneth, show little or none at all,) wise men will esteem them accordingly But if such a Divine as Bredwel do but call our curse a by-path, this sentence is authentik enough, for Mr Bern to put in 
d 〈◊〉 1. Likelie●ood.  his book.  
The 6. is, the Lords judgement giving sentence with them (of England) & against us. These things as they are before more prudently urged, both for the good success of the English ministers, and bad issue of many of us, so I leave the reader unto the answers before made pag, 13. &c, 23. etc. Only I would advise Mr Bern. to look better to his words, when he next write, and not to set down such positions, as may tend to Atheism or judaism; as wherein his brother Boltons' case that hanged himself he 
pag. 34.  Saith, which end the Lord letteth not his special instruments to come unto, etc. A jew upon this grant, would trouble Mr Bernard to defend Christianity; seeing 
Act. 1.17, ●.  judas hanged himself, who was a far more special instrument of the Lord, being an Apostle; then Bolton that was but a ruling Elder; and not the first broacher of this way, as Mr Bern. very untruely (upon Mr Giffords' report, if he so reported) doth allege. Besides that judas after a sort repent and acknowledged his sin, and was not (that we know of) excommunicate, yet came to that woeful end; whereas Bolton for revolting from his faith at Paul's cross, was dealt with, excommunicated, and so died (for aught that is known) without repentance, a member of Mr Bernard's church. See before, pag. 23.  

● ●ikelie●●●d.  The 7. is, the ill success it hath had, these very many years, being no more increased.  
The natural man perceiveth not the things of God; but judging by the outward appearance, gives unrighteous judgement. If M. Bernard had lived in Noah's days, and seen his 120. years' labours and preaching spent in vain, how would he have stumbled at the work of God, that gave his word no other effect in the world? And lo it is written 
a Luk, 17.26.  as it was in the days of No, so shall it be in the Days of the Son of man. But had Mr Bern. been in the days following, when Israel very few in number 
b Psa, 105, 12.13.  walked from nation to nation, from one kingdom to an other people, and notwithstanding the 
c Ge●, 15.  promise of multiplication, yet in 200. years and mo●, had increased but unto 
d Deut, 10.22.  70. souls, and as many more years were in Egyptian bondage: and had he in the mean while seen the 
e Gen, 17.20.  Princes of Israel, and 
f Gen 36, 15. etc.  Dukes of Esau with the 
g ver 3 c 1 &  Kings that reigned in his land, before any King in Israel. how would this man (may we think) have gathered likelihoods, or rather have concluded out of doubt against the poor afflicted church of God? But it is no new thing to hear this pleading from such carnal gospelers. Well, not totell him of God's gracious work in bringing many to this truth and causing moe to listen after it daily, let Mr Bern. look to himself and his fellow Reformists, and if his right eye be not blended, let him acknowledge God's hand against themselves, who heretofore had so many fautors, and that not of the meanest in the land: yet now are repressed as troublers of the church, and their counterfeit reformation further from all likelihood of effecting then was at the first. And this much of his unlikely likelihoods.   

Of his REASONS.  
HIS reasons now follow, of more force (as he 
h pag. 44.  pretends) than his bare probabilities. These are three fold, taken 1 from the evil of the entrance, in to this way; 2 from our persons so grievously sinning in this way; 3 from our opinions which are altogether erroneous and false.  
The first sort of reasons, have this foundation. 
1. The evil of the entrance.   
The entrance is very sinful and cursed. Because of these 2 great evils. 1 That we do not only condemn corruptions and the notorious wicked, but also forsake 
i pag, 44,  all former Christian profession amongst them. A man must cast off that word there with them which made them alive; also the faithful messengers of God, the Fathers which begat him: yea he must renounce all fellowship of the godly there etc.  
But we may with the Prophet truly complain of this man, 
Answer.  that his mouth is 
l Psa. 10. 7●  full of cursing and deceit and fraud; for how often have we in our public writings protested our consent in all the holy doctrines that themselves profess: only because we cannot enjoy them without Antichristian abominations; which the Prelates impose, and the Priests and people practise we have separated from those assemblies, where idolatry is publicly set up and maintained from those blind guides that would seem to make concord between light and darkness, Christ and belial, and under show of many truths, seduce men's souls unto destruction. Did the church of England forsake all former christian profession among the Papists, when they left the Pope and some of his Prelates, Mass, images etc. If not; then neither do we that have left but the remnants of Popery yet retained; and do walk in the truth to our knowledge and utmost power as God enableth us; not casting off any jote of his word, nor any faithful messenger of his, or other godly person, as this adversary calumniateth. His hart knows better, though it sendeth forth such bitter waters.  
2. Next this he saith 
a pag, 46.  with such a renunciation of truth, must be retained, much untruth: the particulars are 1 that men must beleeu our way to be the truth of God; 2 and then condemn their church as a false church.  

Answer.  Whether our way be not the truth of God, let the Godly judge by his word; by it also let them try the estate of the church of England. But Mr Bern. begging the question, will have things to be taken for untruths, before trial or due conviction. To help himself he seeks advantage by that we have published as he saith under our hand, that the differrences between us and them, are only such corruptions as are by us set down. Though the word only be not ours, but Mr Bern. own; yet to let this pass as ordinary with him, what gathers he from it? Corruptions saith he, do not mak● a false church, but a corrupt church, (make the worst of it that can be;) as corruptions in a man, maketh but a corrupt man, and not a false man. First let the reader observe that he speaks not a word of those corruptions which we set down; neither indeed is he able with our corruption to plead for them. Secondly it is very corrupt and gross that he would persuade, no corruptions can make a church to be false: for then rebellious Israel, though they 
b Zeph. 3.7  corrupted all their works, was a true church still; but Moses foretold that for 
c Deut 32, 5  corrupting themselves, they should be none of God's children but a froward and crooked generation. Now let Mr Bern make the best of it he can. His simillitude of a man is not fit in this case. A man is a substance, but a church consisteth in relation or reference to Christ, as a wife to her husband. But if a man's wife play the whore never so often and openly, she may be, by Mr Bern. doctrine esteemed a corrupt but not a false wife. Such distinction he may carry to the stews. Corruptions there may grow in churches and they yet be true churches as at 
Reu 2.14 15.  Pergamus, 
f ver. 20. etc.  Thyatira, etc. corruptions also there may be that will make true churches false; as in Israel and Rome, where first wre assemblies of Saints; afterward they became 
g Eze 23, ● Chro. 11.15. Reu 17 1, &, 18, 2  whores and habitations of Devils. And there may be such corruptions in the constituting of a church that embraceth much truth, as will make it from the first a false church, as in Samaria, 2. Kin. 1●, 27.28. &c  

2 The persons grievously sinning &c. 1 Syn.  HIs second sort of reasons, is from the grievous sins that are among v●, by reason whereof (from our own ground) we may not (saith he) be joined with. The sins he reckoneth 6.  
First, that woeful entrance before named. I answer, that Mr Bern. entered into this reason with untruth, and continued in it with begging the question, as before is showed. So that this his objection is very woeful a●d the man deserveth rather to be pitied then answered in his i●le 〈◊〉 made without proof.  
THe second is a high degree of unthankfulness both to God that begat vs●ly, ●is word, and to our mother the church of Engl. that bar● us. I answer, 
2. Syn.  〈◊〉 thank God for that knowledge of him wh●ch we attained unto in the Church of England, and are thankful also (as is meet) to all the instruments which God hath used to bring us unto knowledge: but now when God hath showed us a further truth, (as what ch●l●e of his, seeth not more daily,) we should show great vnthankf●lnes if we would not walk in it, much more if we should blaspheme and persecute it, as Mr. Bern. and many of his fellow Priests do, struggling against the light that shineth upon them; A papist may have occasion of thankfulness unto G●d a●d men, for the knowledge of God and Christ which he hath get in th● Ro●ish church, far abo●e that which he could have had among Pagans: yet if upon sight of the errors in Popery, he forsake that false church and join to some other true, no man can without ungodliness, condemn him of unthankfulness. The Papists heretofore have used such reasons as these against the Protestants; now they, for want of better apply them against us.  
T●e third sin imputed to us is, 
3. Syn.  that we are full of spiritual unchariblenes First toward th●m that will not go our way, nor be inclinable to us whom (he saith) we deeply censure and deadly condemn.  
First, this also is an old popish cavil, 
Answer.  used often against the Protestant's. One 
a Kellison, Suru●y 1 book 4 chap  telleth them, they deserve the punishments of Parricides, for scoffing, taunting, contemning and reviling their forefathers.  
2. Our uncharitableness, (if such it be) is this, that we pray for and wish unto all, as to our own souls, even life and peace we seek to cover a multitude of sins which then is done, when sinners 
b jam 5, 20  are converted from going astray. And for this cause we speak that which we believe and know, though the world therefore hate us.  
3 C●nsu●● or condemn those that go not our way we do not, we know every man shall stand or fall to his own master. It is the sin only which we condemn, the sinner we seek to save, leaving him to the Lord who shall judge both him and us at the last day.  
4. But how charitable the ministers of England are unto us let thei● continual reproaches and vituperies in pulpit and in print show: and how they censure and condemn us and all that will not go their way; let Mr. Bernard's own book speak where by the sentence of his godly ministers, every one is damned, as 
c pag, 263.  cutting himself off from Christ, whosoever wittingly and continually separateth from the church of England, where yet so innumerable abominations and idolatries do abound.  
2. Secondly our uncharitableness (as 
d pag; 52,  he saith) is a most ungodly desire as ever was heard of, to have the w●rd utterly extinguished among them, Egyptian darkness to come over them, rather than that it should be preachedly such as do not favour our course etc.  

Answer.  Our desire is, that the Egyptian darkness which now covereth the land by means of the false Prophets that are therein, were done away; and that the true light of the Gos●ell were risen unto them. We are sorry to see the prophets (which have night for a vision and darkness for a divination, as 
a Mic. 3.6,  was threatened of God,) ●o to deceive the people, by preaching lies in the name of the Lord, when he never sent them Christ hath no need of such falsers to help up h●s k●ngdome he hath ways and means enough, by his own ordinance & ministry to build up his church, though Antichrists clergy be sent back to the bottomless pit from whence 
b Rev. 9  they came. We know men gather not 
c Mat 7, 16  grapes of thorns nor figs of thistles. Lamentable experience these many years, showeth what hurt and misery cometh by this false hierarchy and priesthood, which upholds idolatry, profaneness, and humane traditions; pleads for sin, and against the truth; to the destruction of men's souls. We wish people therefore to beware of false prophets, though they come in sheep's clothing; and to seek the Lord by his own ministry, not by Antony's christs: for the thief cometh not 
d joh 10, 10  but to steal, to kill and to destroy. Let them see by the lamps of God in his own Sanctuary and Candlestick, and walk in the light of jerusalem his church, which 
e Isa. 60.1, 2.3, Reu. 21, 24,  hath the glory of God arisen upon it leaving Vr of the Chaldees, and walking no longer in the light of the fire and sparks that men have kindled to themselves lest 
f Isa 50 11  they lie down in sorrow.  
3. The last point of our uncharital lenes, wh●ch M. Bern. 
g pag. 56.  saith is the highest degree of all, is that we are sorry and envious that the good things of God do prosper with them. etc.  

Answer.  That the good things of God do prosper with them, and the truth prevail manger all opposition; we have cause to rejoice for, and do rejoice, Yea and we doubt not, but the envious writings and dealings of Mr. Bern and his fellows, against the gospel, God will turn to the furtherance of the same; and the generation 
h Psa 112.2  of the righteous shallbe blessed which the wicked 
i vers. 10,  shall see and fret and gnash their teeth and pine away; when their desire shall perish. But what are the good things Mr. Bern. meaneth? Not the truth of God indeed, for that he blasphemeth and writeth against as Schism and Brownism. Nor the reformists' cause, called Puritanisme; for that prospereth not, as all men see, but decreaseth daily. The Prelates are the men that prevayl, for a wh●le; their canons are confirmed, their ceremonies flourish, and their horns are exalted. Whether M, Bern, himself (who wrote not l●ng since a book against them, which also he was willing a gentleman should have printed in his own name, that M, Bern. might have slept in a wh●le 〈◊〉 whither himself I say, and his fellow Reformists who are disappointed of their hope, be not sorry for this prosperity, let themselves say. As for ut we have learned 
* ●sal. 37.  not to fret or en●y when we see the wicked flourish; for they shall so●n be cut down as grass, and wither as the green herb. Sorry we are indeed for their lamentable estate and desire that they may find mercy, at the hands of the Lord.  
Our fo●rth kind of sin, he saith is, our abusing of the werd, misaleging and 〈◊〉 it, etc. 
The 4 sin.  This was the third of his probabilities before 
‡ pag. 90.  answered, and is here for a show mustered again among our sins; but nakedly and without all proof: I leave it therefore to the reproof of God; and to the godly judgements of all that shall read our writings and allegations of the scriptures.  
The 5. sin is our wilful persisting in our schism. 
The 5. sin  This is again to beg the question, first let it appear to be schism that we are in, let the reasons a●d grounds of our separation be orderly dealt in, and sound convinced by God's word: then if we yield not, let us be holden wilful. Otherweise, to persist in well doing is good And as easily do the Papists call Protestant's schismatics, as they us. Whether M Bernard with all the helps that he hath had from other men, hath convinced us of schism, let the godly judge. If reproaching of us, and idle excursions into by matters, be a conviction; doubtless he hath done it better than any before him.  
The 6. sin, is our railing and s●●ffing, 
The 6 sin  and (as he saith) Henry Barrowes blasphemies, who hath egregiously abused all their holiest exercises of religion, etc. I answer, if such sin be in any of us, it is even by ourselves condemned; and ●f by humane infirmity any have been overtaken with unseasoned speeches, we desire the Christian reader to bear with and pardon it in us, as himself would have pardon of God The like hath Mr. Barr●● earnestly entreated in his Preface to his Discovery, as the reader may see; so far was he from delighting in such ways.  
Secondly I answer (howsoever I will not justify all the words of another man, nor yet mine own, for in many things we sin all;) that many of the th●ngs which this man counteth raylings, scoffs and blasphemies, are no other speeches them the hol● Ghost hath used before us in the scriptures, and applied to like persons; and seemed as harsh to men of those times, as these do to men now.  
Thirdly it is likely that some be rather the printers fault (unless Mr. Bernard hath forged them himself), than Mr Barrowes.  
Fourthly the Reformists themselves, amongst whom Mr Bern. sometimes seemed one, have uttered as hard speeches against the Prelate's & other corruptions of their own church; though now like time servers they gloze with their reverend Fathers; as this man maketh the first of Mr Barrowes raylings scoffs and blasphemies to be his caling the Bishop's 
” It would be known what Mr B●rn, counted & called them in his book that of late he wrote against them.  Antichristian. But how many volumes have themselves heretofore written of this argument? And who amongst us hath ever dealt as did Mar●in Marprelate among themselves?  
Finally Mr. Barrow did sharply in 〈…〉 against the reforming preachers, as being the greatest deceivers of the people, under show of holiness. This maketh them again so e●er against him; but whither he spoke not right of them, may in part be seen already, & time will show more; they can no longer halt as hitherto they have; but either they must reconcile them to th●ir Father's, or quite forsake them: and a ble●sed work of God it is, that the most dangerous seducers should thus first be discou●●●d.  
THe third and last sort of reasons which M. Bern. 
* ●ag., 78 etc. 1. Error.  useth against us, is, Our errors, and (as he saith) the matter of our schism.  
The errors which he reckoneth up, and undertaketh to confute ar● ten. The first of them is that we hold the constitution of their church to be a false constitution. To this he saith,  
1. That we cannot prove this simply by any plain doctrine of scripture etc. 2. That it is against the evidence of the scriptures, which maketh the word, (Mat. 28.19. Mar 16 15. 2 Cor. 5.19. &. 11 2. job, 23.23.24. Act. 2.14.37.38. & 16.32.33.) the external profession Act. 8.12.37.38.) and Sacraments (Mat. 28, 19 1 Cor. 10.16.) the visible and true constitution of a company so gathered and kn●t together; and so was theirs constituted: as that book of (Mr. Ber.) showeth; and as in another ere long shallbe plainly manifested etc. 
Answer.   
First Mr Ber. setteth down barely this as our position and doctrine, not name●ng place or bo●k where it is written, nor the proofs that we make of it, but peremptorily saith we cannot prove it. Whereas it hath in 
‡ Discovery Resut of Giff. Confession Apology. Answer to Mr. jacob etc.  many books by many plain doctrines of scripture been evidently proved, so as Mr Bern. and all his fellow priests could never yet, make a plain and direct answer And if when book is written after book, no refutation be made, but a bare deneyall, as here M. Bern. saith we cannot prove it, I say the ministers of Engl. may so turn away any thing; but with what credit or conscience, the wise will judge.  
Secondly, for M. Bernard's reason, itself wanteth a good constitution, being to confusedly set down, as a man knows not what he makes the constitution of a church; or how he would conclude that their church is constituted aright. He pretends the word to be the Constitution of a church; whereas the scriptures that he quoteth, and reason itself might teach him, that the word is the instrument or means of Constituting, & conserving the church constituted; so also be the sacraments. But as the constitution of a common wealth or of a city is a gathering and uniting of people together into a civil polity: so the Constitution of the common wealth of Israel, (as the church is 
” Eph. 2, 12  called) and of the city of God the new jerusalem, is a gathering and uniting of people into a diviue polity: the form of which polity is Order, as the heathens acknowledged, calling polity, 
† 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Arist, 3. Polit, c. 1.  an order of a city: which Order is requisite in all actions and administrations of the church as the Apostle * showeth, and specially specially in the constitution thereof: so that next unto faith in God, it ●s to be esteemed most necessary for all holy societies Wherefore Pa●l rejoiced for these two things in the Church at Col●ss●, 
* C●lo. 2.5  even their order, & their steadfast faith in Christ. Now whereas to the constitution of a ch●rch there belong ● a people, as the matter whereof, and 2 a calling, gathering and uniting together, as the form whereof the church consisteth. in both these the Constitution of the Church of Engl. hath (in sundry treatises) been ●roued false. For with them all sorts of profane worldly and wicked person's, are received as the matter whereof the church is builded, contrary to the ●layn and manifest doctrine of the scriptures. Leu. 20.24 1 Kin 8 53. Act. 2.40, and 19.8 ● john. 17.16. 2 Cor. 6.14, ●7, 18. The form and order of their uniting is als● strange; for these profane people, even all persons in a family, an● all families in a parish, are united into one parish church, as it is called; not voluntarily, ●as aught to be 
‡ Act 2. 4●  in the true ch●rch, but by constraint, not by any due profession of repentance from ●ead work● and faith in God; but by the priests reading a Confession absolution, and such like popish st●ff as is to be seen in their service book, not under the guidance of Chr●sts officers, but of a Parson, Vicar, Curate or other like creature of the Bishops, who in many places can but read English unto them. And this with the other Par●shes of the Diocese so gathered also, are united into one See or D●oces●●● church under a Lord Bishop and his Co●rtiers, and all the Diocese into two Pro●inciall churches, the Provincial, into one national church, called the Church of England, over all which there is a most reverend Father and spiritual Lord, Archbushop, Primate, and Metropolitan: under whom all Bishops and Priests of the land are subject; and all people and parishes in the land bound to obey the dead canons and decrees, which he the Ache Lord with his brethren of the governing clergy, agree of in their repre●atiue church in the Convocation house, if once the Civil Magistrate give life unto them. This form and order of a church is not to be found in Chr●sts Testament; but received it is from the church of Rome by heritage or succession; as the Papists boast of (to the dishonour of Protestants) when they say; 
” Supplic to the king anno 1604. Reason of religion. 6.  A religion etc. that distinguished the multitude into, perishes proportioned ●he tithes, annexed th● Glebeland, fonnded the Bishoprics, ●mitted the Dioceses &c, So, as the mother is the daughter is, false in her c●stitutiō; though in the doctrine which she profeseth she is far better & purer then that whoremother of Rome. The discussing of thes things. as Mr Bern. refereth to other places & books, so also do I; seeing in thi● place ●e hath brought nothing of weight to prove his constitution. For the scripture that he alegeth, & the 3. things that he colecteth from them; do make against his purpose. The word is not by Christ's ministry rightly; reached & applied to the people, but unsufferabley abused to the maintenance or the confusion and idolatries that are among them: the sacraments are highly profaned and prostituted to the most ungodly and their seed, and popishly administered, and the external profession which the people, make is by constraint, and therefore nought worth: besides it is corrupt and idolatrous, being a mixed profession, partly of the truth of God, & partly of their own inventions, as appeareth by their Communion book Canons, and the like.  

2. Error  Our second error should be, that we hold their Constitution a real idol, and so them idolaters. To confute this, Mr Ber. saith that he h●th perused in any scriptures, and can see none that take an idol or idolaters in any such s●nse; again, that Marlorat mentioneth 47. idols, and not one of them in ●he s●nse.  

Answer.  Whether this article be of Mr Bernard's own forging, or where he hath had it, I cannot tell; his reader must take all of his cred●, for he lets not down his author. As for his confutation hereof, it is very slender, that because he seeth it not, or Ma●lorat nameth it not, therefore it is no idol. For it is no sure position that Mr Bernard seeth all that ●he scriptures; teach; and both he and Marlorat may as soon number the hairs of their heads, a● all the idols that are in the world. Well therefore yet may ●t be a real idol, for o●ght that this man hath said to save it. And if it be a false constitution (as before is pro●ed) set up in stead of a true, what is it better than a very idol. In the end he turns and renteth us for making o●r own constitution (as he saith) an idol or goddess; and feighneth that we may say, Great is the Goddess Constitution; great is Diana of the B●●●nists B●t seeing this is but a reproach of a scorner, and the reproach reacheth unto Christ himself who hath apppointed the frame order and constitution of h●s own ch●rch, which we have laboured for I leave him for this calumniation, unto his rebuke, who will teach him one day no more to blaspheme.  
And whether (may we think) tendeth the invective of this vain man, who thus skoffeth at the Constitution of Christ's church, but to bring in a mere ataxy or confusion, worse than was at Babel's tower-building: for take away the orderly framing and constituting of a church, and there will be but a Tohu, (as the scripture 
* 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 jer. 4.23 Gen, 1.2.3. Error  speaketh,) a rude indigest heap or confute Chaos, more beseeming the wild beasts of the wood, than any humane, much les●e divine polity.  
That such as are not of a particular constituted church, (to weet such a one as ours is,) are no subjects of Christ's kingdom.  

Answer.  Neither is this position set down in our words; (to my knowledge;) neither doth Mr B●rnard take away, but confirm rather the thing that we hold; for he 
‡ pag. 81,  granteth that they offend God, which may and do not ordinarily, (having 〈◊〉 canes offered) live in a church rightly constituted; and we grant that many of Christ's subjects, for want of means, do not live in a true constituted church, If therefore he were not a caviller, he would not have reckoned this among our errors.  
That all nor in our way, are without: and we apply against them (in Engl.) 1 Cor. 5, 12, Eph. 2, 12. 
4 Error   
The first part of this position, you must impu●e to Mr Bernard's charity, who w●ll needs frame our assertions for us, 
〈…〉  because he thinks we cannot speak for ourselves; we might leave it unto him to frame an answer also. But if he would let us tell, what we hold, it is, that all not in the way ●f Ch●ist, are without: and if this be an error, let him make the most of it.  
The applying of those scriptures against them, he must be content to bear, till he or his brethren can prove themselues a true church; for though there b● great differences of people's professing religion, some with more truth, ●ome with less; yet all not within Christ's church, are without, as th● A●ostle speaketh. Mr Bernard's exception, that those places are meant of s●ch as never professed Christ at all; is childish: why doth he not except against the holy Ghost himself, who 
* Reu 18, & often in that book.  applieth against the false Christians of the R●mish Church, words and speeches meant first of heathen Babylon, that professed not God or Christ at all.  
His boasting of the word, sacraments, effects and deliverances; are before in this traatise taken away. And Mr Bernard's proofs, are but a begging of the question, which he blameth in other●, as before is observed.  
That only saints, that is, a people forsaking all known sin, 
5 Error.  of which they m●y be convinced, doing all the known will of God, increasing and abiding ever thr●●, are the only matter of a visible church.  
Th●s Position I de●ey, 
Answer.  and disclaym also the errors which he gathereth from ●t: and therefore will spend no time in answering it; but refer Mr Ben to them that have so spoken or written, if any be. This we hold (〈◊〉 let us see what Mr Bernard can say against it,) that 
‡ 1 Cor 1.2. Rom. 1, 7. Eph 1.1,  Saints by calling are the only mater of a true visible church. Yet withal we hold, that ●any be calle●, 
† Mat. 20.16. & 22, 14.  but few chosen.  
That ●he power of Christ, that is, authority to preach, to administer the sacraments, and to exercise the censures of the Church, belongeth to the whole Ch●rch, yea to every one of them. And not the principal members thereof. 
6 Error. Answe..   
This opinion, he calleth the A, b, c, of Brownism: but he may put it if he please in the Criss-crosse rew of Bernardisme; he himself being the first that I ever heard to utter such a position. This point he much urgeth and ●relleth us with; he mentoned it in his Forespeech to the Reader, thus, Th● Pa●ist saith, Christ's ruling power is in the Pope; nay, saith the Protestant. i● is in the ecclesiastical governors, Bishops, may saith the Puritan, it is in the Presbyterte; nay, saith the Brownist, it is in the body of the Congregation, the multitude, called the Church. And in this beginneth Brownism. etc.  
Here first I require of Mr Bern. that he produce his autors, and show the book, or writing, where we have avouched such things. He tells his reader of all the errors that he charges us with, that 
” pag. 78.  we hold & cannot deny them, being already avouched under our hands: and that he will not wrong us in setting them down, etc. Yet durst he not (as every honest writer writer in su●h controversies use to do; an● if he do not in his next, the reader may est●em of his truth and honesty as it is.  
Next, for the point itself, I answer, Christ's ruling power, which the Papists say is in the Pope; we say not (as this man calumniateth us) that it is in the body of the Congregation, the multitude, but in Christ himself; and that the Pope is Antichrist, not for taking into his hands the power of the multitude, but of Chr●st, to rule and govern the church as Head of the same.  
Again, Christ's ruling power, which the Protestants say is in the Bishops the Prelates, we do not say it is in the multitude; but in Christ himself: for he only is 
* 1 Cor 8, 6. & 12.5.  Lord of the Church, he only is 
‡ 
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉.  
1 Pet, 5, 4,   Archbishop or Chief pastor; he only walketh among the seven golden Candlesticks, as Overseer of the seven church's; ruling them by his law's canon's and decrees. Whereas the Bishops of England are spiritual Lords, and one is Archbishop and Primate over all: they rule many church's and minister's, mak● new canons and decrees in their Convocation house; 
Reu 1.13 & 2.1.  prescribe forms and words of prayer, and of preaching, by their liturgy and homilies, and other like spiritual jurisdiction, appertaining to Chr●st alone, thus are they very Antichrists; and to ●ther with their exorbitant usurped. power, ought utterly to be abolished out of all Chri●t●an churches.  
Neither, that ruling power of Christ, which the Puritans (whereby I suppose, Mr Bern. meaneth the Christian reforme● churches in other countries,) say is in the Presbytery; do we say, is in the multitude for we acknowledge Christ to have ordained a 
* 1 Tim 4, 14  Presbytery; or Eldership, and that in 
‡ Tit. 1.5. 2 Co, 12, 28. Act, 14 23.  every church, for 
” 1 Tim 5, 17  to teach and rule them by his own word and laws, unto whom all the multitude, the members. the Saints ought to 
† Heb 13, 17 1 Pet. 5.5  obey and submit themselves, as the scriptures teach And for the particular branches of this 6. Error that Mr Bernard chargeth us with, That the power of Christ, that is, authority to pr●ach, belongeth to the whole church, ye● to every one of them, etc. we deny it, a● he sets it do●n, and for the help of t●e reader whom he abuseth, will distinctly set down our opinion.  
The word of God, is given to all and every member of the Church to read, and exercise privately: but publicly in the Church there is a double use, 1 in prophecy, and 2 in office, as the Apostle 
* Rome 12, 6 7·S  distinguisheth. The office of teaching is laid upon some few chosen & ordained thereunto Into this office may no man intrude, or usurp it, without a lawful calling. This we have long since published, as a pa●t of our faith Confess, Art. 19.20.21. Teaching in way of prophecy, (which the Apostle treateth of 1 Cor, 14) is absolutely us lawful 
‡ 1 Cor. 14 34.  for all women in th● church, but men, so many as have the gift and ability from God, may 
〈◊〉 31, 24  all prophesy one by one, of which point see our Con●●ss Art 34. And this is that we hold concerning preaching, which whether it be an error and Mr Bern. hath so proved it, let the indifferent reader judge.  
For the second point, authority to administer the sacraments, that it should belong to every one of th● church; we utterly deny; and marvel at Mr Bernard's unconscionable dealing with us, for in o●r Confession he co●ld not but see, (unless he winked,) this plainly expressed, 
* Art. 34.  no sacraments to be administered until the Pastors or Teachers be chosen and ordained int●●heir office.  
The third and last, that every one hath authority to execute the censures of the church we also deny; but hold, that every member hath authority to 
‡ Luk 17.3  reb●ke h●s brother for sin, and if he repent to forgive him, if not, to take witness; if yet he repent not, to tell it 
” Mat. 18.15.16.17.  to the church, which church hath Christ's 
† 1 Cors. 4 12, 13.  power to judge all within the same, and cast out from among them all wicked men: Now that every one hath not this power, nor yet any member or members apart, we have plainly signified in our Con●●ssi●n, Art. 24. If this be an error in Mr Bernard's account, let him by the scriptures confute it, not only in us but in a principal minister of his own ch●rch D, F●lk, who hath written 
* Treatise of Pope's pard. part. 2. c 3,  that the keys of the kingdom of heaven whatsoever they are; be committed to the whole church, and not to one p●●sō only, as C●●rian, Augustine, chrysostom, Jerome, and all the ancient Doctors agrea●ly o●ly to the scriptures do confess.  
So then for popular government, (which Mr Bern. would traduce us by,) we hold it not, we approve it not, for if the multitude govern, than who shallbe governed? Christian liberty (which 
‡ 1 Cor. 7.23 Gal 5.1  all have) is one thing, the reins of government (which 
” 1 Cor. 12 28.  some have) is another thing. Now how far t●e people's right and liberty and benefit thereby eytendeth, would require a larged scorse to show, which is not my purpose here. It is ye enough to mainfest the iniquity of this adversary who would father such errors on us, dealing like his predecessors the Papists, who in this weise reproached the Protestants, as labouring 
† Apolog of the church of Engl. 1. part c, 2 divis. 7.  to bring all things under the rule of the rash unconstant people and unlearned multitude; and to make the church 
* Survey of the new relig, 1 book, 3 chap.  democratical and popular, because every one of the people by his private spirit, is supreme judge and head in matters of religion.  
Our different judgement and practice from the church of Engl. where all ●y men as they call them, are forbidden all speaking or expounding of the word in the public assemblies, and where a Bishop, Chancellor, or Commissary, hath power to excommunicate by a Latin writ etc. Our difference also and dislike of the Presbyteries practise, whereby people are excluded, and deprived of a great part of their Christian liberty and benefit thereby, is in other books 
‡ See monng other. the Discovery of the false church; pag 165. & forward. Apology against the Oxford DD. pag. 60 etc.  largely treated of, with scriptures & reasons many, which M, Bern. neither orderly handleth, nor sound confuteth, as the wise reader may see; but ignorantly and confusedly shuffleth them over; running into by matters, and unjust calumniations. I will end therefore with the words of one of his fellow ministers, who touching this point of Church government writeth much more sound then by Mr. Bern. in his blindness, hath done, Mr jacob I mean, which saith, 
a Necess. of reform, pag 28.  It is childish, and without all wit, to cry out against us ●us our adversaries do▪ Popularity, Anarchy etc. for our so▪ well grounded and so approved an assertion.  

7 Error.  That the sin of one man publicly and obstinately stood in, b●ing not reform nor the offender cast out, ●oth s● pollute the whole congregation, that none may communicate with h● same in any of the holy ●hings of God, (though it be a church rightly constituted, till the party be excommunicated.  

Answer.  I deny again this to be either our judgement or practice Mr. Bern. saith the former position is the ground of this; and so it seemeth, he calumniating us in the for●er, thou●ht he might do likeweise in this. We profess and have long since published, that 
b Confess. 〈◊〉, 3●,  none is to separate for fault's & corru●tiōs, which may & so long as the Church cōsist●th of mortal men will fall out and aris● among them; but by due order to s●●k redress thereof  
Now that every Chr●stian not only may b● taught to rebuke his neighbour for sin, we ha●e plain laws both ●n the old Testament and the new Levit. 19.17. Luk. 17.3. That sinners not repenting, are after the second admonition to be signified unto the church, is also Christ's ordinance, Mat. 18, 15.17.  
But what ●f ●he church will not cast him out? I answer; Synns are either controvertible or manifest. If controvertible and doubtful; men ought 
c 
Rome 15, 1 Phil, 3 15, 16.  
Eph, 4, 2, 3   to bear one with another's different judgement; if they do not, but, any for this make a breach or separation, 
d Heb 10, 25  they sin.  
But if the sin be manifest, as for example a man is convict of adultery, blasphemy, theft or the like: and the church will not rebuke him nor cast him out, but suffer him obstinate and impenitent in his wickedness; and plead for him against such us call upon them for judgement: then are all such abettors of the wicked, sinners themselves; and that in a high degree, as th' Apostle noteth Rom. 1 31 the whole lump is leavened, 1 Cor. 5, 1, 6. etc. and now not that one man's sin, but the sin of them all, is that which polluteth them: for they favour and justify a wicked man more than God; therefore 
e Isa. 5, 20 23,  woe is unto them, and Solomon saith, He that saith to the wicked, thou art righteous him shall the people curse, and the multitude shall abhor him. Prou, 24 24  
If M, Bern think the sin is the less, because a church maynteyns it; he is much deceived; evil, the more common it is▪ the worse ●t is; because God is more dishonoured, and men's souls more endangered.  
If he think men should regard and reverence the church in this case▪ the law teacheth every man not to follow 
f Exo. 2●, 2  the many (or, the mighty) to do evil, nor agree in a controversy to decline after many, and overthrow (the right.) The ●round of all this is plain in God's law, if any one of the people sinned against any of the commandments of the Lord, 
g Leu 4 (27 28. &c,  and one showed him his sin which he had committed, he was to bring his sacrifice, a testification of his repentance. If a 
ver 2●. 23 &c,  ruler sinned, or the high 
i verse. 3.  priest himself, they were to do likewise. If the whole 
k verse. 13. etc.  Congregation sinned, the like law was for them: God respected no persons; but if they that sinned were greater or moe in number, they were so far from being savoured, as they had the greater sacrifice enjoined them, a private man offered 
a vers. 28.  a shee-goat, a ruler a 
b verse 24,  hee-goat, the high Priest, and the Congregation, a 
c ve 3 & 14  young b●llock. These laws were given to all sorts of persons, for all manner sinns‘ and the law was again repeated and established from that day forward throughout their generations, Num. 15.22.23. etc. But if any man despised this law, and sinned with a high hand, the same blasphemed the Lord, and was to be cut off from among his people. Num. 15.30.31 Now further, that the whole congregation taking Part with wicked men in sin, after due admonition, are all defiled and subject to like judgement, we have a plain example in the whole Tribe of Benjamin, 
d judge, 19,  where in Gibe●h one of their towns filthiness was committed, the Tribe was called upon to deliver 
e judg. 20.13. etc.  th●se wicked men to death, that evil might be put away from Israel, ●●t when they would not deliver them, all the other tribes warred against that tr●be, and almost rooted out every man of the same. Likeweise the tr●bes of Israel in an other case, said to some of their brethren, 
f josh. 22.18.20.  seeing ye rebel to day against the Lord; even tomorrow he willbe wroth with all the Congregation of Israel. Did not Achan sin, etc. and wrath fell on all the congregation of Israel and this man alone perished not in his wickedness. What Mr Bern. seeth or how he readeth the scriptures I cannot tell; but if he knew the contagion of sin or guilt of the same, he would never have writien as he hath done Now where he pleadeth that men should not for the offender, refreyn the holy things of God, abhor the sacrifices etc. We grant it. The holy things are always to be reverenced, God's house and sacrifices frequented, when we may without sin But we deny such an assembly to be God's church, as with a high hand sinneth, and blasphemeth the Lord. The sacrifice of the wicked is 
g Prou. 21.27.  an abomination. And it cannot be said that any holy thing is lawfully administered in such a society where all agree together to maintain open iniquity, and do despise the word of the Lord, calling them to repentance If they do not thus, we hold it not lawful to separate from them, nor in any weise at any time, till all holy and orderly means be used for their reclaiming.  
That every of their assemblies are false churches. 
8 Error.   
This we hold indeed, 
Answer.  being understood of the ordinary cathedral & parish assemblies of England, which all are by one line. For defence of these church's Mr Bern. refers the reader to an other treatise after, and so do I to the answer of the same, following. Yet lest he should seem ●o say nothing, Mr Ber excepteth 1 That they have no false head, for, they hold jesus Christ. I answer, so might jeroboam have pleaded for himself & his people, that they had no false head, but 
h 1 Kin. 12 28.  the true God which brought them out of the Land of Egypt. Yet were they a false church The Papists Papists and Anabaptists at this day, hold and profess jesus Christ: yet such errors are among them, as Christ in deed is deneyed: the parishes of England profess him also, but such is their estate otherweise, that they have him not truly for a head, prophet, priest, or king unto them; as before 
a pag. 74.  is proved. But it is enough for Mr Bernard to affirm without proof: and correction with him is a 
b pag. 111.  needfuller argument in this case then instruction For when the Priests li●s preserve not knowledge how should men be answered but by the gaol or gallows?  
2. The matter (saith he) is not false: and to show this he noteth a difference between No matter, true matter, and false matter. No matter are th●y which make no profession of Christ at all; as jews, Turks, and Pagans, True (visible) matter are all such as openly profess this main truth, that jesus the son of Mary is the son of God▪ Christ the Lord, by whom only & alone they shallbe saved. And 
c pag 116.  false matter is contrary to this true matter.  
I answer; this false matter is very rawly set down, for being contrary to the former true, it may imply jews, and Turks, whom he made no matter: and then it confoundeth his own distinction. But if he mean that they which profess not Christ rightly and truly, as he setteth down, are a false matter, then, say I; ●t will evince the matter of their Churches to be false, seeing there is not aright and true profession of Chr●st, made by their parishes▪ But Mr Ber. leaving out this word rightly & truly, tells us 
d pag 113.  they all profess this faith, as is apparent 1 by the doctrine of their church (vidz. that in the Harmony of Confessions,) 2 by the same publicly preached 3 by the same maintained by their laws, writings and blood of holy martyrs. I answer, if all this were granted▪ yet will it not prove Mr Bernard's purpose, for some may write and preach the truth, the Magistrate may establish it by law, and some may seal it with their blood; and yet not all the nation be a true matter for Christ's church, except they also make l●ke profession Which that the parishes of England do not, the profaneness of the multitudes show. But lest I be thought to speak of envy, let us hear the testimony of their own ministers and such as were no favourers of us at all▪ as their malicious writings of us showeth Mr Nichols esteemed a forward preacher among them▪ saith, 
e Plea of the innocent. p. 218. etc.  We find by great experience, (and I have now five and twenty years observed it,) that in those places where there is not preaching and private conferring of the Minister and the people; the most part have as little knowledge of God and of Christ, as Turks and Pagans. To confirm this, he gives us an example in his own flock For I have been in a parish saith he) of fowr hundred communicants, and marvelling that my preaching was so little regarded, I took upon me to confer with every man and woman, before they received the communion. & I asked them of Christ, what he was in his person; what his office; how firm came into the world; what punishment for sin; what becomes of our bodies being rotten in the grave and lastly whither it were possible for a man to live so uprightly, that by well doing he might win heaven. In all the former questions, I scarce found ten in the hundred to have any knowledge, but in the last question, scarce one, 
A sayer profession.  but did affirm, that 
a pag. ●20.  man might be saved▪ by his own well doing, and that he trus●ed he did so live, that by God's grace he should obtain everlasting life by ser●ing of God and god prayers etc. Now then, this being so, tell me I pr●y y●u (saith Mr Ni●hols▪ first for Atheism, whether these be any bettor than A●h●is●s, whi●h know not Christ? And tell me I pray you Mr Bernard whether th●●● be a ●rue matter, such as Christ's church consisteth of? But you would ●a●● us believe the Bishops and Priests of Engl. are wondrous men; for i●●hey write books, or preach sermons to the people, their whole Dioceses and Parishes must needs be esteemed converts and proselytes. Such effect & grace was never heard of before, since the world began. More absurd it is to say, that the good laws of the Magistrate, do make a profane idolatrous multitude, true professors: but most of all, that because some few were martyrs, therefore they that killed the martyrs, profess Christ truly. If these be not pregnant reasons, than M. Bernard's book is little worth. 3. But he proceedeth and saith, The visible form is not false; which is the uniting of us unto God, and one to another visibly. This he would prove by 3, reasons 1 because the word is preached and offered to the people; 2 Because of the people's open profession of their faith, unto the doctrine, God working in them a will to receive it. 3 because the Lord's supper is in use among them. Sundry scriptures are alleged to show that thus the primitive churches were planted and constituted; all which we grant; but when he comes to apply 
b pag. 121.  these to themselves; he barely assumes, that thus is their case; neither answering any reason of ours to the contrary, nor showing any reason of his own, to confirm that which he saith. And what cause in the world, what church is so bad; but may thus be pleaded for? He knows well, that we except, (and the visible estate of that church, their own monuments, records, complaints, etc. do bear witness with us,) that they were planted in this religion and profession by force of the Magistrates law; that multitudes are profane; that many thousand want the preaching of the word; that they are all compelled to come to church, be baptised, receive the communion, and the like; and what profession the poor ignorant people make, is before manifested. If he would hear more of their profession, and subjection to the word and ministry, Mr. Nichols shows it thus; 
c Plea of the innocent pag, 246·  How little have they esteemed the godly and learned ministers! How content they be with simple and ignorant men! How hardly are they drawn to pay duties which law hath apppointed! How many quarrels they pick against painful ministers! And how little reverence they give to any that are faithful! How they follow their covetousness and pleasures! How they fill all sorts of courts with brawls, foolish and wilful strifes, and suits, and demurs in law with murders, whordomes▪ drunkenness, and all disorder. Lo this is the commendations of the professant people of the Church of Engl, whom Mr Bernard pleadeth for.  
As for their constitution and uniting together into parishes▪ dioceses, provinces, and at last in to one national church with an Archbishop & his high court over all it is 
a pag. 99,  before showed to be a R●mis●●●t●o●, and antichristian, n●t justifiable by the law or testament of Christ.  
4. Lastly, the visible properties are (he saith) not false ●ut true, namely th●se, 1 Continuance in hearing of the doctrine of Christ received, and using of th● sacraments and prayer. 2 The hol●ing out of this truth an● 〈◊〉 sacraments as 〈◊〉 displ●●ed, against the enemy▪ 3 A care for the welfare of all, and every one for 〈◊〉 and each for o●her.  
But all this building is on a s●ndy ground: for their estate (as before is manifested▪ being evil: the longer they continue in it, the worse it is f●r them Continuance to read ●he service book, and homilies, to prostitute t●e Sacraments to the profane, to administer them after a ●opish m●nn●r, by a false m●n●ster●; these are the banners and ensigns of Antichrist▪ displayed ●n all his assemblies; that poor souls have cause to complayn a● in the Psalm, 
b Ps. 4.4.  they have s●t up th●i● banners for signs. As for the care of the welfare of all, etc. which Mr. B●rn. boasteth of: let Mr. Nichols foresaid complaint of the people on the one hand▪ and the Bishops, & Priests open neglect & contempt of the people on the other hand, show what care they have one of another. For how many souls are miserably famished by dumb, negligent, and non resident priests evil beasts and slow bellies. How many preachers are put out for not subscribing and using the ceremonies, etc. These, that I g●ue no other instances, show what care there is of men's sowless am●●● them; which he that commendeth, shows himself careless what he speaks or writes.  

9 Error.  Our 9 error is, that we say, All th●●r minister's are false ministers. Against this Mr Bernard allegeth for the truth of their ministry, that they are sent of Christ according to his ordinance in his church, as is manifested by th●, th●t th●y are quall●fi●d with good gifts, they are called by the church, & such also as d●e diligently, and faithfully preach, and so preach Christ as many thereby doth are and bel●eue, even confirming their calling by the blessed success and effect of th●i● labour's. Rom. 10.14.15. 1 Cor. 9.2.  

Answer,  First, if Mr Bernard would indeed have refuted our error, if such it be he shoul● have answered the reasons which in many writings we have br●ught against the●r ministry B●t he found that, all too heavy.  
The● for the reasons that ●●ms●lfe allegeth, they are naked and without all confirmation; such as Pa●ist●, Anabaptists or any other Antichristians might allege for themselves F●r, a Papist will ●oast as well as he, that their Priests are qu●lifi●● wi●h go●d gifts, called, by the church, do diligently an● faithfully preach, so as 〈…〉 h●●r an● believe. B●t I will answer each of ●is part●c●l●r● Their qualification is wi●h Good gifts, is no proof of a lawful ministry; seeing ● many private men ha●e as good gifts as they; ●vsurpers and intruders may al●o have as excellent gifts, as lawful officers: ● jesuits', Summaries and their instuments of Satan, are known to be as learned and well furnished with gifts, as Mr Bern. and his brethren. 4 Moreover I deny that the principal ministers of England are qualified or able to execute their office; the Archbishops, Bishop's Arch deacons, etc. that have whole Dioceses and Provinces under their charge cannot possibly perform the duty▪ of true ministers unto them. 5 And finally a number of ignorant Sir john's can read their Liturgy unto their paris●es; and have no other good ministerial quality.  
The second thing, their calling by the church; which afterward he expl●yneth th●s; 
a pag. 141.  being examined, found fi●, and so are elect and ordained; this 〈…〉 upon the sands; for the church of England not being a true ch●rch of G●d, as is before manifested, hath no power from God to call and ●rdeyn mi●isters▪ But besides this, I would fayn learn of Mr Bern. what Ch●●ch it is that examined, elected, and ordained his Lord's grace of Canterb●●y, for Archbishop's then whether the same or some other ch●rch examined elected and ordained the Diocesan Bishops, the Deans the Archdeacon's, and the rest of that Lordly priesthood, than what church ordained the parish Priests, and Deacons. These things if he dare undertake to deal in, and bring to the trial: will be found more agreeable to the Canons of the Pope, then to the testament of Christ.  
Their office itself, Mr Bern. balketh quite, and tells us not what functions this pompous clergy have to execute, yet is it most needful to be known, for how else shall men discern their administration? To begin● therefore with his Arch Lord of Cant. the Angel of the church of Engl. what office ●ath ●e to execute, of a Pastor; or of a Pope? If he be Pastor of this ●●●rch, what be the inferior Bishops; petty Pastors, or Petty pope's? what offices 〈◊〉 the Suffragans, Chancellor's, deans, Archdeacon's Commiss●●●s, ●ffi●ials, D●ctors Proctors, and the residue of that army? what offices have the Preb●ndaries, Canons, P●ti●anons, Chanters, Subchanters, and other like b●rds of the cloister? what offices have the Bishop's bay lifts the Priests, the half priests or Deacons, the Parsons, and Vicars, the Churchwardens, Clerks, & Sextius? Mr Bern. affirmeth that 
b pag. 131▪  the Lord only ordaineth offices in his church 1 Cor. 12. and that the church itself cannot do this, but jesus Christ both Lord and King. Now seeing he hath overskipped in this book, all the stately offices that are in his church: let him in his next show (if he can) the offices that Christ in his testament hath apppointed this troup of horsemen and charrets unto.  
Now for their administration, he telleth 
c pag. 142.  us, they preach the true doctrine or Christ, administer the sacraments, perform their office faithfully, and live c●ns●i●nably, and Christ doth assist such graciously in converting souls, and ●h● pe●ple do approve of them.  
Fair words, and such as it seemeth Mr Bern. useth to feeed his flock with: but if one deny that thus it is, he must tarry for proof, till an other treatise come forth; it was enough in this, to affirm it so to be; and for his Lord's grace to confirm it. Well, to let pass the multitude of complaints and testimonies to the contrary in their own books, let him show how it is possible for the Archbishop of the church of Engl. or the inferior Bishops, to preach and perform their office faithfully, unto so many hundreds of parishes, & thousand of people, as are under their charge. Let the infinite number of souls that are famished under them speak, how often their Chief-shepheard of Cant have fed them with the word and sacraments, (unless perhaps he hath blessed some of their youths with the Sacrament of Confirmation;) how many of their souls he hath converted, yea let them say whether ever he saw their face●? As for the Bishop's Deputies the paris●h priests, many of them are dumb by nature, and cannot preach; many are made dumb by their spiritual Lords power, and silenced for disobedience; so preaching waxeth geazon, and people perish for want of Instruction. In the mean time, this painful Clergy feedeth the Lay weekly, with their matting, Evensong, and Homilies; and sometimes in a year with sermon, and reading the Bishop's canons. They discipline their notorious sinners, with reading curses and Comminations out of the pulpit, till the Lent penance (which is much to be wished) be restored again: they solemnize the holy days of Angels and of Saints; they give each man the sacrament at Easter devoutly upon his knees, they baptise with water, and a sign of the cross in the a●er; they wed their parishioners with a ring, & teach the man to worship his wife, in the name of the Father and of the Son & of the holy Ghost: they church the women after childbirth: they visi● the sick, and absolve him from all his sins, and howsel him with a Communion: and last of all, they bury the dead, in sure and certain hope of resurrection to eternal life. And this is enough for priests to do in the country parishes; but in the Cathedral churches, where Bishops, Deans; and other great Doctors do reside; there the Queriste●s and Organ-pipes, make sweeter melody. Mr. Bern. confesseth 
a pag, 121.  that the Lord only prescribes the duties to be done in every distinct office: now he that knows not these dutiess to belong to Christ's ministers, or these works to be a faithful performance of ministerial office, let him read Mr Bernard's book, for there 
b pag, 139.140.  he hath quoted many scriptures, the end of all which is to raise 
c pag, 141,  an evident proof of the truth of their ministry and administration; as if one should cite the second commandment, for to uphold idolatry.  
The effects of their administration, in converting souls, is but a vain boast, as their idolatrous estate, with the lamentable ignorance and profaneness of the people every where showeth The reasons brought by others (for Mr Bern bringeth none,) to persuade such effects, are before in this 
d pag 54. etc.  treatise answered.. It maketh also against the estate of this church and ministry; for if these preachers have converted and wrought faith in some of their hearers, than it followeth that before that conversion they were infidels, yet were they of the church and had this ministry set over them, as all men know. Which how it can stand with the r●les of God's word, hath never yet been showed. The example which Mr Bern. allegeth of th' Apostle 1 Cor, 9.1.2. helpeth him nothing: For Apostles were sent 
Ma● 28.19,  to convert heathens, but Pastors are set for to 
b 1 Pate ●, 1 Act. ●0. 28  feed converted Christians. And the Priests of England challenge to be Pastors, I ween, and not Apostles. Again the work and seal of Paul's Apostleship was seen in Corinth, by 
c 2 Cor, 6, 4 etc.  separating the believers from infidels; and gathering the 
d 1 Cor 1.2  Saints only into the communion of the church, under the officers 
e ● Cor. 12  gi●en of Christ but in England the unbelievers and wicked, were received and are retained in the church. So that Mr. Bern. is but a ●alse Apostle (as his work shows) if he be any at all. But in the end he tells us 
f pag. 144.  we forget to justify the lawfulness of our own ministers, who are made ●i●ist●rs ●y s●ch as are no ministers, contrary to the constant practice of the church of God, from the days of Adam hitherto. etc. In which dispute, Mr. Bern. teacheth plain apostasy from the Gospel unto Popery, from wh●ch he deriveth the ministry of his church of Engl. For seeing all the examples that he allegeth from scriptures, are of Divine persons and approved ministers of the true church; and coming 
g pag. 145.  to his church of England, he fetcheth her ministry out of the Popish church and from the Prelates thereof, it cannot be (if his last words agree with his first) but the po●ish church is a true church, and their prelate's true ministers. Otherweise h●s reasoning is absurd, to say, God ordained Adam, Moses odeyned Aaron; Christ ordained the Apostles; the Apostles ordained orther minister's in churches: therefore Antichrist of Rome, his synagogue of Satan, & h●s eldest son●es the Prelates, must or may ordain minister's in the church of Christ. If this be a good consequence let all men judge: if ●●●s it be not, then Mr. Bern. holdeth the popish church, and the ●opish ministers true ministers; and so himself and his church of England must needs be schismatiks for leaving that church of Rome. When he hath cleared himself of this his absurd doctrine, than (if he cannot see that the church of Christ hath power to ordain her own ministers) it shallbe showed h●m by the scriptures, T●ll then, what should we do following of a wavering reed, whom we cannot tell by his writing, whether he be Papist or Protestant. And that the reader may see into what an intricate Labyrinth the ministers of England have brought themselves, about this matter of their ministry, by writing as they have do● both of the Papists and of us: I will set down a Papist argument against them: from which how handsomely they can defend themselves, I would fayn see. There came out, in anno 1602 a book called A detection of divers notable untruths etc. wherein the author having to deal wit Mr S●●cliff, who as (he saith) had reasoned thus, 
h In his challenge, p: 85.  The true church is a society of faithful people under lawful Pastors &c But the Church of Rome hath long wanted true Pastors and Bishops; for the Romish Bishops have no authority ●r mission but from the Pope, to whom also they swear feally: but he hath no authority to send them or ordain them, ●eing himself no Bishop, etc. This argument of Mr Sutcliffs the Papist 
i detestion, etc. p. 100  retorteth v●ō them thus. The true church of Christ hath always true Pastors and Bishops: but the English Congregation wanteth true Priests and Bishops: Therefore the English congreagation 〈◊〉 not the true church of Christ. The fi●st proposition (saith the Papist) he must not deny, being of his own making, etc. The 2, proposition is apparent according to Mr Sutcliffs divinity. For most certain it is, that their first Bishops received their orders and consecration from our catholic Bishops, as his brother Bel confesseth, Survey. pag. 201. And the thing itself speaketh: seeing when L●ther begun, there was not any protestant Bishop or Priest etc. And if Mr Sut●liffe dare deny that their Bishops were c●ns●cratedl● ours, then let him name who they were that did lay hands upon Mr Parker the first of Cant. that derived not their mission authority and consecration from the Bishop of Rome. Certain it is, th●t ●yther none at all can be named, or else none besides: therefore if our Bishops be no Bishops, then doth it follow most evidently, that all the English Bishops, be no Bishops at all, as having no other consecration then from them: And if our English Prelates be no true Bishops, then surely neither be they Priest's or Minister's or Deacons, that be ordained by them, and so consequently the congregation of E●g●, by Mr Sutcliffs argument, not th● true church of Christ. This is the Catholics argument and plea: which how Mr Bern. or his brethren will well answer, and stand also to that which they have written against us; I cannot tell.  
Finally, against that often boasting of the work and effect of the ministry of Engl, I will oppose a testimony of one of their chief mi●isters, yet our professed adversary, that it cannot be thought he was partial for us at all. Mr Gifford is the man that thus hath 
a Dialogue between a Papist & a protestant: in the Epistle dedicatory:  written. Som● d●e wonder how it should come to pass; that among us there should be so many which being borne since the gospel was restored in this land are so zealously addicted unto Popery, which th●y never did know. and so utter enemies to the Gospel which they hear. But if they weigh the causes of this deadly mischief, they will cease wondering at that, and rather wonder that there be no more. For how can it b● so long as there be so many abuses in the ministry, but that many shall stumble and loathe the Gospel. For from thence as it is manifest, the chief cause of this evil doth spring. True it is that our ministry doth fight against them but yet in such sort, that it doth greatly increase them. Seeming and pretending to tread upon those cockatrice eggs, for to break them, and so ●o destroy utterly th● viperous generation: when as indeed they sit upon them, and so hatch the brood's of this evil kind, and bring them forth in great plenty. For behold a number cry out against popery, and proclaim utter defiance in speech: but their doings are such, that for every one which they convert to the gospel, they cause an hundred to revolt, to be hardened in their errors, or to fall into flat Atheism. While many contrary to the profession w●ich they made when they entered, setting aside the care of souls, not esteeming nor regarding what become of them, study most how to climb high, and to satisfy their ambitious desire of honour: taking together livings covetously and greedily: not caring who feed the flock, so they may ●●me by the fleece, Moreover the door hath been opened also ●o let into the church 〈…〉 and swarm of such, as are more like the priests of jeroboam, then minister● of the gospel: not only unlearned idols, which have mouths and speak n●t; which being weary of their occupations, and covet to live easily, and to that end are entered; but also riotous, dicers, gamesters, quaffers, quarrellers, adulterers and such like. If the matter were secret I should do amiss to make it manifest; but when it is open in the sight and view of all men, who can complain justly when it is spoken of? Let this record of Mr G●ffords, for the effect of their administration and their good qualities besides, together with Mr Bernard's former doctrine for their first calling and ordination by the popish prelate's; show whether it be not like, that this ministry will ere long make accord with the mother church of Rome that hatched it, and for whom it again hatcheth cockatrices eggs.  
The tenth error that we should hold is, 
10 Error  that their worship (in Engl.) is a false worship. To prove this to be an error, Mr Bern. bringeth these reasons.  
1. That they worship no false God.  
I answer. 
Answer.  Neither did jeroboam the son of Neba● who made Israel to sin: yet used he a false worship 1 King. 12.  
2. That they worship the true God with no false worship; for they have the true word preached, the true sacraments, and their prayers are such as ma● be warranted by the word. etc.  
I answer, this is but taking for granted, that which he should prove; for he knows well that we deny th●se things, and by many reasons in sundry books (none of which Mr Bern. answereth) have disproved their preaching, ministering of Sacraments, book prayer etc. Seing he will answer nothing before written by us, let him in his next book, prove that the Apocrypha scriptures and homily books, which they read in God's worship are his true word; that the sacraments which the unpreaching priests minister to their profane parishioners by their popish liturgy, are true sacraments; let him approve by God's word the observation of all their holy days, fasting days, with their prescript peculiar service; briefly, let him show warrant for his service book, the making and use thereof with all the popish contents therein. These are strange incense, new forgeries of their own, never apppointed by Christ or his Apostles: wherefore we doubt not to affirm their worship to be false, even an humane invention. With these things Mr Bern. meddleth not, but bringeth proof for other matters, which we never denied; and referreth us to an after treatise. which now next followeth to be answered. Yet ere he leaveth us, he will utter all his hart, and from his inner store poureth out against us 12. errors moe, wh●ch he will not spend time (he saith) in confutation of, they are so absurd and false; being also (as he thinketh) conjured by the former. Though nothing need be answered where no show of proof is made: yet to satisfy the reader and show him the vanity of this adversary, I will briefly touch them all; and they be these.  
1 That their congregations, as they stand, are all and every of them uncapable before God to choose them ministers, though they desire the means of salvation.  
All such as desire the means of salvation in what congregations soever, have, 
Aswner.  power and liberty from God to separate from all evil, and join together in good, and so to enjoy God's blessings in his ministry, or any other part of the Gospel But, we hold that no false church, hath power from God to choose ministers: which he hath ordained only for true churches. 1 Cor. 12.28. E●h. 4, 12 R●m. 12.4, 5 etc. & we wonder with what face any Christian can say otherweise. If Mr Bern. make the error to be in holding them false churches; then is it the same with the 8. error before answered, and is here b●t idly of him repeated.  
2. That God in their best assemblies, is worshipped after a false manner.  

Answer.  An other idle repetition of that which before he made our Tenth error, which there was answered.  
3. That baptism is not administered into the faith of Christ simply, but into the faith of Bishops, and Church of Engl.  

Answer.  This I think is Mr Bernard's uncharitable collection, not our Position. Though we hold baptism among them to be administered neither by a true minister nor after a lawful manner, but according to their own prescript liturgy and to the seed of the wicked, with great dishonour of the precious blood of Christ; and therefore to be no true seal of God's covenant unto them.  
4. That their faith and repentance is a false faith, and a false repentance.  

Answer.  Faithfulness and repentance is desired in Mr Bernard himself, who careth not to calumniate us We profess to judge no secret things such as true faith and repentance are. We are persuaded many in true churches may have a false faith and a false repentance, because there are many hypocrites also that many in false churches may have true faith and repentance, for there are Gods elect But who these are on both sides, we leave unto God that knows them. Of Mr Bernard's church this is that we say, they walk not in the true faith, they bring not forth fruits of tr●e repentance, in the public estate wherein they stand.  
5. That th●ir Ministers converting men to God there, do it not as Pastors but as Teachers. 
Answer.   
This distinction which Mr Bern. skoffeth at▪ must rest, skoff and all, in his own bosom, till he bring out another father. I know not who begat it.  
6. That their church standeth in an adulterous estate. A strange assertion (saith Mr Bern.) what idol worship we?  

Answer.  False worship is spiritual adultery jer. 3. If Mr Bern. were not a stranger in Christ fold, he would so acknowledge it, and not count it our error. If he say the error is in holding their worship to be false; then say I, he repeateth now the third time, that which before he made our 10. & again our second Errors, and if he go forward thus, he may multiply it to a thousand, and teach us new Arithmetic. If he would know what idol he worships! let him take his Ordinary for one among many, who standeth for a spiritual Lord over many churches, usurping Christ's place: to him doth Mr Bern. with his flock, bow and stoup. An other idol he may ●●nde in his pew.  
7. That we cannot say certainly by any warrant of God's word, that any of them hath either faith or fear of God.  
A hard speech, If that man whom he mentioneth in the margin, 
Answ.  so said; let not one man's word be imputed to our common cause He may see it otherwise minded by others of us, before in this treatise pag. 39 and our Apolog. pag. 91.92.  
8. That n●ne of their ministers may be heard.  
Not heard in the execution of their ministry, for it is of Antichrist. 
Answ.  Christ's sheep hear his voice, not a strangers joh, 10 All Antichrists ministers are strangers. So are all ministers of every false Church. Such their church and ministry hath been proved to be in many treatises.  
9, That it is not lawful to join in prayer with any of them,  
As a false church generally, so the members thereof particularly, 
Answ.  may not be communicated with in spiritual actions. Such we hold, & have proved their church to be. Till Mr Bern. take away this foundation, he fights but with shadows; and showeth his ignorance in the communion of the Saints.  
10. That ministers may not celebrate marriage nor bury the dead.  
There wanteth a third thing to make up the error, 
Answ.  Churching of women These and the l●ke ministerial functions, we know the Romish Antichrist layeth on his priests, and the Prelates of England on theirs: But in Christ's testament we find no such duties imposed upon his ministry Let Mr. Ber therefore bury his dead still; for he will quicken but a few by his popish doctrine.  
11, That ministers should only live of voluntary contribution, and not either of set stipends or tithes.  
Against this Mr Bern. allegeth God's wisdom who allowed a settled maintenance under the law: and there is nothing against it in the Gospel,  
God in wisdom apppointed tithes, first fruits & other particulars for his Prirsts livelihod under the law: 
Answ.  Christ in wisdom appointeth none such for his ministers under the gospel; but Pope Paschalis about 827 years after Christ 
a Queen 19 ca 1. Decimal a populo.  decreed that tithes should be given to the priests. This Pope's wisdom Mr Ber. preferreth before Christ's. It cannot be deneyed but tithes were a part of the Law, and that Chris● abolished the legal Priesthood; whereupon it followeth by the plain doctrine of the Gospel, if the priesthood be changed, then of necessity must there be a change of the law. Heb. 7.12. But Mr Bern, had rather any shadow should be done away then this of Tithes, for it hath much substance with it. and there be more siluersmithes of Demetrius mind which said, 
a Act 19.15  Siroye know, that by this craft we have our goods. But what saith one of their own ancient Martyrs against Mr Bernard's predecessors. 
b Acts and Monuments, Wilian Thor in his testament.  This Priesthood is blown so high and borne up in pride and vain glory of their estate and dignity, and so blinded with worldly covetousness, that th●y disdain to follow Christ in very meekness and wilful poverty, living holily, and preaching God's word truly freely and continually, taking th●ir livelihood at the freewill of the People; of their pure almose, where and when they suffice not for their true and busy preaching to get their sustenance with their hands To this true sentence grounded on Christ's own l●uing, and teaching of his Apostles, these foresaid worldly and fleshly priests, will not consent effect ally, etc. If this martyr were now alive, the Clergy of England would sooner condemn him for a Brownist then approve of his doctrine; albeit now that he is dead, they garnish his toomb.  
12. That their churches ought to be razed down, and not to be jmployed to the true worship of God.  

Answ.  To repair this ruin, M. Bernard telleth us; there is great difference between Antichristianisme and Paganism. He might tell us also there is great difference between Paganism & Paganism, some Pagans worshipping the true 
c Act 17.23  God ignorantly; some the Sun and Moon and host of heaven, some the Devil himself. But what were this to the purpose? The thing he should show is that God more esteemeth favoureth alloweth or tolerateth antichrists idol houses, then of the Pagans. Till he do this, we know that by God's word and in his account, as Pagans 
d 1 Cor, 10 20.  worship Devils, so Antichristians' 
e Reu 9 20, & 16, 14. and 18.2.  worship diu●ls Let men feign to themselves what difference they l●st. But it must be proved (saith Mr Bern.) that our churches were built by Antichrist. First God in his law required no such proof, when he commanded utterly to destroy all the places wherein the nations which Israel should possess served their Gods; 
f Deut. 12.2.3.  whether it were in the grove which Abraham himself had 
g Gen, 21, 33,  planted, or on the altars which he had 
h Gen 12, 7 8. &, 13, 4 &c,  builded; the law of God made no inquiry Secondly, If M, Bern. will seek the records of his temples, he may find many to have been builded by Papists, if he will grant that they be Antichristians: or if he will go f●rther, he may find some of them builded by heathens, and dedicated to Devils. But though the Records said nothing, yet the form and shape of these mass houses, proclaim them to be the very shrines of idols, and liable to the Curse.  
Thus are we come to an end with M, Bernard; passing by his impertinent discourses, which in his roving he ran into: leaving him also for his unchristian reproaches, and injurious calumniations, to the mercy or judgement of the Lord, who 
i jude vers. 14.15.  behold cometh with ten thows●nds of his Saints to give judgement against all men, and to rebuke all the ungodly among them, of all their wicked deeds which they have wickedly committed, and of all their cru●l speakings, which wicked sinners have spoke● against him.   

THE MINISTERS POSITIONS SHAKEN.  
THere is added to Mr Bernard's book, an other work entitled; CERTAIN POSITIONS held and maintained by some godly ministers of the gospel, against those of the separation, and namely against Barrow & Greenwood. The groundwork whereof is thus laid;  
That the Church of England is a true Church of Christ and such a one as from which whosoever wittingly and continually separateth himself, cutteth himself ●ff from Christ  
I will not stand upon the consequences that may be made of this position, whereby all that abhorring the abominations in that church, and so separating from it, are quite cut off from Christ, whatsoever truth they profecie and walk in, or whats●euer other church they join unto: but I will insist in a brie● answer to that which these Ministers bring to prove this their peremptory sentence, and they be 4. reasons.  
1, For that they enjoy and join together in the use of those outward means which God in his word hath ord●yned for the gathering of an invisible Church: that is, preaching of the gospel, and administration of the sacraments.  
2. For that their whole church maketh profession of the true faith.  
3. For that th●y hold and teach etc. all truths fundamental.  
4. For that all known churches in the world acknowledge that church for the●r sister, and give unto her the right hand of fellowship.  
These things have been before handled in this treatise, and the weakness of them discovered: yet because it may be thought new men will make new arguments, and many heads together bring forth deep counsels, let us weigh what these godly ministers have here said.  
For proof of the first point, 
1 Reason,  they do allege that the means which they use and enjoy have been effectual to the unfeigned conversion of many: as may appear both by the other fruits of faith that may be found amongst them, and by the martyrdom which sundry have endured &c: yea even we ourselves are able to witness with them, that if there be any true faith and sanctification in us, it was begun and bred in th●ir assemblies,  
Secondly, that if Mat. ●8. 18.20 Eph. 4, 11.12.14 be well examined, it wil●e found that the means which Christ ordained for the gathering of an invisible church are the very same which they enjoy even the preaching of the word and administration of the sacraments.  
I answer; All this that they say will not prove their, Position, 
Answ.  namely that the church of England which consisteth of the whole nation, divided in to many dioceses and parishes, under one or two Archbishops etc. is a true church of Christ. For the Papists boast of all these things, as colourable and as truly as these ministers Their priests have converted many from Pagenisme, judaism, and profaneness of life; their church hath had many martyrs; Luther and others that first left them, had their faith begun in their assemblies; etc. and whatsoever Ministry is in England, from the Archprelate to the half priest, the Papists, have amongst them yea Engl. had it from them. And it is to be admired that these godly ministers can allege nothing for their church, but such old popish stales.  
How vainly they assume these things unto themselves, hath been showed before: 
a See before p. 37.42.43.  fruits of faith appear no● in their confuse assemblies wh●re God is publicly dishonoured by false worship; his enemies (profane & wicked people) fostered and blessed with his most holy things, and Antichristian prelate's, and Canons obeyed:  
Were it as they say, that many have been converted, is that enough to make all the church? We have testimonies from their 
b See before p. 2.107.  own mouths that there be swarms and thousand of profane, irreligious, atheists, blasphemers and open wicked livers Mr Gifford a champion of their own hath confessed and printed it that 
c Country divinity: in th● Epis● de dic.  through want and absence of ● sincere ministry, there is a flood of ignorance and darkness overflowing the most part of the land: the fear of God is banished from the greatest part: the wonderful heaps and piles of sin, which should be washed and cleansed away by the word, do undoubtedly with one voice cry aloud in the ears of the Lord for vengeance upon the whole realm &c Shall now a few supposed converts, mak● all this rout a Christian church? It is impiety, and an overthrow of the Gospel. Gen. 3.15. 2 Cor. 6.14, 18, Mat, 15.13. Reu. 21..2: 3.27. and 28.15.  
What mean these Ministers to boast so much of their martyrs whose blood cries against them, in the ears of the Lord of hosts. For did not their church kill them? Let one of themselves speak in this case, lest we be thought partial. 
d jos, Nich. Plea. of the innocent. p. 236.  Who knoweth not (saith Mr Nichols,) how much blood of God's Saints. was spilt in former ages, and how many houses were guilty of blood? And when did this land seriously and sincerely humble itself. & by ●pen repentance make reconciliation for the same? Nay rather how many thousand repined at the happy reign of her majesty, for the casting out of the idolatrous and superstitious worship of God, and for the establishing of his holy nam● and the liberty in preaching of the Gospel's? This testimony is known to b● true; the greater is their sin that now plead for such a people to be a true Church of God. Shall the Cainites be honoured for Abel's martyrdom; or the jews for crucifying Christ? then also may the bloody gen●tion of Papists be canonised for Saints, and made members without repentance) of a christian church. And for these ministers, let them heart and make use of Christ's words to their predecessors. 
e Luk. 11.47.48.  Woe unto you, for ye build the sepulchers of the prophets, and your fathers killed them Truly y● bear witness and allow the deeds of your fathers, for they killed them, and y● build their sepulchers. 
f Mat. 23. 3●,  Fulfil ye also the measure of your Fathers.  
It is a slight and simple kind of reasoning, to tell us if those scripture● Mat. 28. Eph. 4. be well examined; it will be found that the means which Christ ordained for the gathering of an invisible church, are the very same which they enjoy. First, what doting Friar will not say this much, for his popish Synagogue? Then, why do not these ministers bring the means they boast of to the examination by these scriptures: is it enough (think they to the examination by these scriptures: is it enough (think they) to cite a text or two, and then ran away; The scriptures they allege have been 
a Pag, 13 & 102, 103.  before examined and the ministers of Engl. being put into the other balance, are found all too leight. But if it were true that they had the mean●; yet their argument is false if they conclude of the effect. Israel had far better means; then England I am sure: for the Prophets, and Apostles and Christ himself preached among them Yet lo he complaineth 
b Isa. 49, 4.  that he had laboured in vain; for jerusalem 
c Mat. 23.37.  killed the Prophets, and stoned those that were sent unto them, and the Lord by his Apostles 
d Rome, 10.31.  stretched forth his hand to a disobedient and gainsaying people. And shall we think that the Priest's of Engl. have such power and grace tied to their lips, that because they have ●reached, therefore the whole nation is a true church? Or dot● there such virtue proceed from these ministers, as can make the multitude of swaggering professors, atheists, blasphemers, and all sorts of profane which swarm in the land, to be turned Christians. worthy to be washed and fed with the body and blood of, Christ. and yet continue atheists and profane as before? what wondrous effect shall we next hear of, but that their preaching hath converted the Devils also.  
But let us hear what testimony M. Gifford hath left beh●nde him, of the gra● & learned pr●achers of the church of Engl: among whom himself was one,) and of the people in their parishes, The Diull (
e Country divinity fol. 48.  saith he) is content those preachers should ride upon his back because he is sure they will not spurg all him: they be very gentle riders. Do ye not think, that if they should set forth God's word as they ought, and spread the light: that all wicked, (of which their parish is full,) would storm and fret against them? the Devil himself would fi●k about, if they should spur him but a little. But they can tell a smooth tale in the pulpit garnished with some merry story, for to make the people merry or else some old rotten allegory; or some far fetched matter out of some great writers, that their people may be at their wit's end and 
e admire,  admit them. A man would think to see the people come out of the church blowing, that they were fed as full as tikes: when they go home with emty bellies. This I dare warrant, if it be not so let me lose both mine ears, that g●e through the parishes of these gra●e and learned Divines and except such as run to fetch their victuals otherwhere, ye shall not find fi●e among five score, which are able to understand the necessary grounds and principles of religion: and yet the People will say, they be excellent deep men. But I love not those wells which are so deep, that a man can draw no water out of them. Lo here the means which the, parishes of England do enjoy, and worthy effects that follow. If Mr Barrow. or any of us, should I have written this, it would have been counted s●●ffing, railing, & blasphemy: but now that Mr Gifford, (so worthy a patron of the church) hath thus recorded, I hope the witness willbe thought irrefragable And now let these godly ministers examine Mat 28. & Eph. 4 and see if there they can find these means which they enjoy, justified.  
But they proceed and tell us in their second reason that 
f pag. 116.  their whole church maketh profession of the true faith. 
2. Reason.  For the Confession of their church tegither together with the Apology thereof, and those articles of religion agreed upon in the Convocation house, anno 1562, do prove this evidently. But herein they would deceive the simple evidently: for first profession of the true saith, when men in practice do deny it, maketh them not a true church, but they are as the Apostle saith, 
a Tit. 1. 16·  abominable.  
Then for profession itself, if it be by constraint, for fear of punishment, by m●n that otherweise are profane, lewd, and dissolute and enemies to the gospel this is no true profession, such as will make men a true church, for they ought to receive and profess the truth willingly and gladly Psal, 110.3. Act. 2 41. Now we know that with them, men were and are forced to the profession they make, and if it were at their own choice, many thousand would profess otherwise. Their own acts and Monuments, (besides manifest experience) do witness this. For Mr Fox reporteth, that when K. Edward had established this church and religion many people 
b Act & monu. edi. 5. pag 11●7, 1190  in Cornwall. Devenshire and other places, not only misliked it, but openly rebelled for their old idolatry. The Priests, though some allowed, yet others 
c ibidem pa 1184.  dissembled, and many carelessly con●emned all, and still exercised their old moneyed Popery. The justices &c were not only 
d pag 1185  slack in furthering of religion, but hindered so much as lay in them the Kings proceedings etc. So that civil force, not Christian zelo made men Protestant's in that King's days: wherefore at his death, having gotten Q. Marry, they so● up again their Romish superstition, and persecuted the other unto the death. Till Q. Elisah came, and enforced them the second time to put away the●r Latin Mass and images, and receive that English service and ceremonies, wh●ch since have prevailed to this day, Wh●ch how willingly the people ye●lded unto, Mr Nichols testimony (to omit all others) before alleged, showeth.  
And How well this religion is liked of now after so many years▪ let the multitude of church papists in England show: together with the whole row● of rebels in Ireland, all which are of the communion of the church of Engl, having the same Bishops, Priests, service & ● the English and Irish that dwell in the country, being joined together in one body and brotherhood: Then add to these papists, the profane timeservers, such as M. Gifford deseribeth thus, 
Country divinity. fol. 2●  I know there be many which care not for the Pope, but yet believe much of his doctrine: they be those which we call Atheists of no religion: but look whatsoever any prince doth set forth that they will profess and add unto them those other firarmes in the church of England that Mr Chaderton complaineth of; eronius and heretical sectaries, witches, charmers sorcerers, murderers, thieves, adulterers, liars, &c and all these together being compelled by law into one church and brotherhood, can any man doubt now of that which these ministers, 
f Serm. on Rom. 12. p. 65.66.  say, that their whole church maketh profession of the true faith?  
The Confession, Apology. and Conuocation-howse articles, are strange proofs of the people's profession. If a few men in their Studies or Consistories, write books or articles of religion. and send them a broad; must all people that see or hear them, will they nile they, needs be counted professors of that religion? yea such also as never heard of them in their lives nor cannot tell what they mean? Surly these ministers are either very ignorant, or careless what they say, when they call this an evident proof. The churches in France and Belgia have published Confessions and Articles also, better than those in England: yet are there thousand and ten thousand dwelling among them, that neither so profess, nor are members of their churches.  
But if it were granted that the public writings, articles canons etc. are to be esteemed the faith & profession of all Engl. yet we deny them to make profession of the true faith; for their Service book, homilies. book of Ordination, with the impious canons confirming all the Romish idolatries, Antichristian clergy and ceremonies that are among them, excommunicating, 
a See before p. 56.  ipso facto, all that speak against them; this is no true Christian profession, whatsoever other truths are mixed with them. For as the Papists holding many good grounds of religion in general, yet by other additions and contradictions, do overthrow the truth: so is it in England, as before in this treatise, and in many others, hath been proved and after shall further appear.  
Whereas these Ministers confidently deny that their church accounteth any one for her child or member, that doth not profess the faith of Christ in some measure: it is nothing but a vain flourish. For was there ever such grossness in the deepest gulf of Popery as to deny Christ utterly, and not to profess him in some measure? Nay it could not be the throne of Antichrist unless he did profess Christ. It is well known, none are baptised among the Papists, but they profess the very same faith that is now professed at the baptism in Engl. namely that which they call th' Apostles Creed So then what have these godly ministers said more than the simplest papist in the world could have said for his church? Now in that they make this a colour, as if the profane and wicked were not accounted children of the church: they show themselves to be 
b Host 9.8  the snare of a fowler in all their ways: yet set they a snare so slight, that every man may break it. For who knows not that there be multitudes of profane and wicked persons in the land? Who knows not that the whole land generally is baptised? Yea the baptisiing of the seed of the most wicked, is not only practised but befended in print, by their late Archbishop D. Whitg. who pleaded 
c Answer to the admon. pag. 111.  what if it be the child of a drunkard, or of an harl●t? what if the Parents be papists? what if they be heretics? etc. shall not their children be baptised? Yes, he will have it to be a common passage for all vile persons, Good and evil (saith 
c Defense of the answer to the adm, pag. 621.  he) clean and unclean, holy and profane, must needs pass by it. And at baptism their service book teacheth the priest to say of every one, we receive this child into the congregation of Christ's flock. Being thus received, not one of a thousand wicked persons, are ever excommunicated: but are fostered in the church until their death; and then the priest is taught again to say that 
e Service a● burîall.  it hath pleased God to take unto himself the soul of their dear brother there departed, and so he committeth his body to the ground in sure and certain hope of resurrection to eternal life. This being the general state of the land, as all men know; what dissemblers are these Ministers to intimate. as if their church acknowledged not the open wicked for her children and members? Mr Gifford, when time was, yielded far otherweise. I confess 
a Dialog, between a Pap & a protes. fol 38.  (saith he) that our church, if ye understand the whole assembly, is full of all wicked vices. There are a number among us which are of your brood, speaking to a ●apist,) wh●se evil life is seen well enough, there ar● a very great number of mere worldlings which do not greatly esteem any religion although they seem now because of laws, to allow and favour our side. etc.  
Now having said somewhat for themselves, such as it is, they cavil 
b pag. 167.  at our description of a church, when we say, that it is a company of faithful people that truly worship Christ and rea●●ly obey him. This say these Ministers, is utterly untrue if it be understood of the visible church. This is strange. What would they have us describe the Church to be a company of infidels; or a company of faithful and of infidels together: when Paul teacheth that there is no communion between such, 2 Cor 6.14.15 or should we say, a people that falsely worship Christ? Indeed if so we held, we might well return to their Church of England; for there is false worship more then enough. The Apostle writing to the visible church of Ephesus, calleth them 
c Eph, 1, 1.  Saints, and th● faithful in Christ jesus. Will they say that this also was utterly untrue? Their own Articles of religion in England 
d Ano 1562 art. 19  say thus; the visible church of Christ, is a congregation of faithful people etc. and is this also utterly untrue? But let us hear their reason why this should be untruth. For (say they) if every one that the church may account a visible member, be truly faithful, how is our Saviour to be understood when he compareth the church or ministry thereof to a draw net gathering aswel that which must be cast away as good fish etc. Me thinks these godly ministers f should be ashamed so to deprave not only our meaning, but our very words, that when we say of faithful people, that truly worship, they will turn and trans● lace them to truly faithful, and then gather (as afterwards they do,) as if men may not account any to be members of the church, by their outward profession, vnl●sse they know them to have true faith, which the Lord only is able to dis●●rne. Could any reasonable man thus construe our words, or gather from them, unless he purposely would deprave? especially knowing (as these men know well) our constant witness otherweise, who esteem of all men, by their outward profession and walking; and have long since published in our Confusion, 
e Art, 17·  that many hypocrites will lurk in the church whiles it is on earth. But thus it pleased these men to abuse us, before the simple reader.  
Their third reason for their church is, that 
f pag, 168  they hold teach and maintain every part and article of God's holy truth which is fundamental. The proof of this, 
3. Reason,  they would have to be seen in their Confessions, Catechisnes and Articles of religion published and approved of in their church.  
This reason is like (if not the very same with) the former, which s●ake also of professing the true faith, as was to be seen in their Confession, 
Answer,  Apology, & Articles. What mean these ministers to cloy their reader so often with one dish of meat, a little divertly dressed? It is doubtless for want of better store. Yet this wh●ch they bring is very unsavoury, for it is not seasoned with the salt of God's covenant. First for that point of fundamental truth, which they so long have stood upon, and co●ld neu●r be gotten distinctly to show what truth is fundamental, and what not: we have now these ministers resolute judgement of it thus, 
a pag. 174.  The only fundamental truth in religion is this; That jesus Christ the Son of God, who took our nature of the Virgin Mary, is our only and alsufficient Saviour For proof of this, they first allege, that th●y receive this truth are the people of God, and in the state of salvation: they that receive it not cannot possibly be saved. Mat. 16.18 Mark. 16.16 1 I●h. 4.2. Col 2.7.  
But first, none of these scriptures do say, that this one article, which these ministers have set down in this form of words, is the only fundamental truth in religion. Neither doth any other scripture, that I know of, so speak; for though Christ 
b 1 Cor. 3.11.  only is the foundation of the Christian church; and though (as they secondly allege) no other point of religion is necessary otherwise then as it tendeth necessarily to teach or confirm this one truth: yet followeth it not, but other points also are fundamental truths the denial of which will abolish from Christ.  
Secondly they have altered, added to, and omitted some of the words of these scriptures, for their own advantage: For fearing that we would (as indeed we mean to do) press them with the profession of the Anabaptists Papists and other heretics; they think to prevent us. And first against the Anabaptists which deny that Christ took our flesh, these men have added, who took our nature of the Virgin Mary. Then against the papists which hold merit of works, they adjoin these words, our only and alsufficient Saviour. And this because the church of England maintaineth the truth in these points, against those fore said heretics. On the other hand to help themselves in their corrupt Antichristian walking, and false constitution; they omit and mention not th' Apostles words Col. 2. where he saith, 
c vers. 6.7.  As ye have received Christ jesus the Lord, so walk in him, rooted and built in him, and established in the faith, as ye have been taught &c The discreet reader may soon espy their purpose in this cunning carriage. 
d Mat 16.16.  For let the position be set down in the scripture terms, and we shall see, how weak their plea will be. The only fundamental truth in religion is this: That jesus is 
e 1 joh 4.2.  the Christ, the son of the living God, 
f Mark. 16 16.  comen in the flesh in whom we must 
g Col. 2.6.7.  believe and h walk, being rooted and build in him, and established in the faith as we are taught in the new testament.  
If now these ministers will insist upon the three first scriptures only, and general terms that are in them; it is apparent that the Papists, Anabaptists and many other miscreants, do hold and profess them absolutely: absolutely: But if they join with them, Colos. 2. and compare the walking rooting, building, and stablishing in the faith taught by th' Apostles, with the Popish church, or with their own; it willbe found that neither of them hold the foundation Christ aright. Themselves w●ll grant it of the Pap●sts and other heretics. and for their own church, it is before in this 
a pag, 74. etc.  treatise proved▪  
So then to come again unto their reason, that they hold, ●e●ch and maintain every part of God's holy truth which is fundamental; whereby they woul● conclude themselves to be a true church the argument is deneyed. F●r first if ●t were granted that th●y h●ld, ●aught and maintained every part of fundamental truth, which yet with them is but one article only as we have heard,) it w●ll not follow necessaryly that therefore they are a true ch●rch, or that they truly profess the Christ an faith. There wan● two things; 1 obedience to the truth professed; (without which men 
b joh. 3, 36 Mat, 7.21 23 Rom. 2, 6.8.  shallbe damned, whatsoever they profess,) 2 and a right profession of the true faith only, without errors adjoined that overthrow the same faith, and obedience thereto For if a people professing that only fundamental truth which these ministers 
c pag. 174.  speak of; should withal profess Mahomet the prophet of the Turks; or H. N. the God of the Familists; or any other like abomination: were this misceline profession of Christ and Belial together. a true and sound profession? I trow not. So then these ministers must alter their plea thus; that they hold teach mainteyn and obey every part of the fundamental truth, and nothing else with it, that overthrows the same. If now they say this they do, I have before in this treatise 
d pag, 74. etc.  disproved it; and here again will briefly disprove it, thus. They profess to beleeu 
e In the Creed,  the Communion of Saints; and that the visible church is 
f Art. 19, anno. 1562  a congregation of faithful people. Yet contrariweise they hold teach and maintain, that their own church is a true church of Christ; though it consists as well of unholy as holy, infidels as believers and innumerable wicked persons openly seen and known. That this they hold & maintain, is pro●ed by their continual clamours and reproachful writings against us, that call upon them for a separation of light from darkness. It is proved by Dr W●itgifts plea before mentioned, that the children of Papists, heretics, and other wicked persons are and aught to be baptised among the● It is further proved by the visible estate of their church known unto all among them, and testified by her dearest friends & favourers. M● Gifford speaking to his brethren ●f the Communion of Saints in Engl. saith, 
g Country, divinity, fol. 19  Ye would even power out your stin●ing and r●t●en pason, like blaspemous and venomous beasts: ye would speak after this manner, you that are so full of the spirit; you that are Saints, and su●h like. What are you Di●ils; are ye of the flesh? No do●ut ye are, until God convert ye. But we may see how diui●ishly men are become wicked: when a man cannot make any appearance to be godly and holy, but it is reproached as though it were a shameful thing to be lead by the spirit etc. These and the like records, with the continuance continuance in this confused estate, plainly prove an overthrow of that article of the true church; which is the body of Christ: and the body being disannulled, Christ the head cannot sound be retained.  
Again, they profess in Engl. that 
a Art. 19 anno 1562  the pu●e word of God is to be preached, the sacraments duly administered etc. also, that 
b ibid., art. 17,  in our doings, that will of God is to be followed which we have expressly decleared unto us in the word of God. Yet withal, they profess and practise in that church, to 
c Book of common prayer  read the Apocrypha scriptures (in which are found untruths and errors, when many parts of the authentik scripture, are never read among them.) they have also written 
d Art. 35. anno, 1562  homilies, in stead of preaching; a written Le●tourg●e, Litany, collects &c. in stead of praying; which 
e Consti. & canons, 1603  Leitoargie with all the popish contents therein. must be approved and used by all the Priests and people, and God served by it every day. They have also an antichristian clergy, ca●led and ordained according to their pontifical, or book of ordination, which ●n their belief, 
f Art. 36, ano. 1562  hath not any thing that of itself is superstitious and ungodly etc. Finally all the Romish relics yet in England to be seen in the hierarchy, worship, ceremonies, ordinances church constitution &c. (which things can never be approved by the word of God,) are yet 
g Canons, anno 1603. & their practice according.  held and upheld, taught and maintained in the church to the excommunicating and persecuting of all such, as speak against them, or refuse to communicate with them. This sinful mixture, and maintenance of so much antichristian error, with the christian truths that they profecie; is no true Christian profession and practice of our obedience unto the fundamental truth of the gospel: neither can the ministers prove, that these contraries will stand together, when account shallbe given before the judgement seat of Christ.  
Secondly I answer (as to their former reason that although some Bishops and Priests have written Articles, Catechisms etc. yet are not these approu●d, much less walked in, by the church of Engl. neither are the people rooted, built, and established in the faith according to Colos. 2. but are dissolute and profane in their conversation, rooted in vices, and established in iniquitis as lamentable experience teacheth all men; as the testimonies of their own ministers before alleged prove, and many other we might allege, and must; if these men still continue to urge that, which is known to be far otherweise. For how well their people do walk in the faith of the foundation Christ, and approve of all fundamental truths in the scriptures; let these testimonies of their own friends show. The most part of your honest men (saith Mr Gifford 
h Country Devinity fol. 73  to and of his brethren) now a days, delight so much in the word of God, and meditate so much in it, that they care not a button though they never hear it. they love it: and set as much by it as they do by an old s●●e. Every man (saith 
i Preface to Mr, D. Fenners Counterpoys  an other) followeth the pride covetousness, whoredom, drunkenness, of his own hart, and no man remembreth joseph. The bars are filled with plead, & the streets are full of cries of the poor, fullness of meat, and contempt is among us, and who considereth! Yet if this our sin were only against men, and not against God there ●ight be some hope. But when the mouth of the bl●spemous swearer is not ti●d up, and the hands of the idolatrous generation of Atheists and profane persons be not chained, when the most holy and precious word of God is manifestly contemned, the joyful and heavenly tidings of salvation so negligently and ungratefully trodden under foot, the true and faithful messengers pursued, arraygnned and divers ways afflicted: then if the old world for malicious imaginations Sodom and Gomorrah for pride fullness of meat and unmercifulness: if jerusalem for abusing Gods Prophets and wilfulness were woefully destroyed: what may we poor careless People look for it we do not repent, but (as it is almost universally feared speedy ruin and utter desolation,  
The exceptions which these Godly ministers take against Mr Barrowes writings, and yet profess 
a pag, 169.  not to answer them; need not now to be stood upon, till the particulars whereby he hath discovered their errors and evil dealings, be by them taken away. They further tax & note it in him as 
b pag. 173.  a strange opinion and an error full gross, maintained in pag. 156.157. of his Discovery, vidz that every truth contained in the scripture is fundamental. But the grossness or crossnes willbe found in themselves for that which Mr Barrow there inveigheth against, was this, 
c Discover. Pag. 156.  that though transgressions and errors be obstinately continued in, and openly taught. after they be reproved and convinced by the word of God, yea and the parties die in that estate without repentance of these transgressions or errors: yet may they hold the foundation and be vadoubtedly saved. Of this mind were, and still continue (saith he) five of the very principal and best esteemed ministers of Engl. both for learning and conscience: although there were alleged against the same these express scriptures, Num. 15.30 31. Exod. 23.21. 1 Sam. 15.22.23. Ezek. 18.26 Mat. 5, 18, 19 jam. 2 10. etc.  
This was the thing that M, Bar. there bet down, showing further, that if the whole scripture was given by inspiration of God, and is profitable to teach, to convince, 
2 Tim 3, 16 Prov. 30.5 Psal. 19.8. & 12.6. Psa. 119 entire. Eph, 2 20.  to correct, to instruct in righteousness; if it be the groundwork and foundation of the church, of our faith: if it be the law and rule of our life, the light of our eyes etc. If every word of God be holy, pure, perpetual; then is this deep learning of theirs, devilish and blasphemous, that thus to colour and cover their wickedness. make some part of god's word fundamental. substantial, necessary, other accidental, superficial, needless, especially where it showeth reproveth and condemneth their doings &c  
Now what say these ministers against this plea? they plainly yield in effect to th'truth, which they could with no colour gainsay; we beleeu (say 
d Pag. 174  they) and teach, that there is no Part of holy scripture, which every Christian is not necessarily bound to seek, & desire knowledge of so far forth as in him lieth. Very well said &; had they added also this word obeyed, (which I suppose they would be thought to intimate,) there would be no difference between M, Barrow and them, though thus they would traduce him. But lest they should seem to condemn themselves, they except. yet dare 
a ibid●m.  we not call every truth fundamental; that is, such as if it be not known and obeyed, the whole religion and faith of the church must needs fall to the ground; and again; 
b pag, 173,  we doubt not that some parts are of more use, and more necessary for men to know, then othersome. In these things (excepting the word fundamental which seemeth to be but strife about a word,) We agree with them; neither doth Mr Barrow, that I can perceive disagree for it is one thing not to know and obey every truth, as they speak, and another thing to know, as hau●ng reproof and conviction by the word of God, and yet to disobey and rebel against the truth, and continue obstinately in transgression▪ which was the point in hand. And for the world fundamental, seeing all God's testimonies are true; and David saith that the Lord hath 
c Psal. 119 152.  founded them for ever; I see no cause why we need be afraid to call every tr●th fundamental that is such as is firm and stable. and on which we should ground and build our faith and actions up on always. Yet seeing now what these ministers understand by the word, I will not strive. Also M, Barrow himself in his Observations upon Mr Giff●rds last reply telleth him that he 
d answer to Artic 5  denyeth not in use of speech such distinction, so much as withstand such eronius abuse of that distinction, which M. Gifford and other divines of these times would infer thereof. And in deed the simple are much beguiled by this subtle distinction. For when the sins and idolatries of these Priests are blamed: answer is made, though they be sins, yet are they not fundamental, they cut us not off from Christ we hold him the foundation, and believe to be saved by him alone and by this colour, men continue in transgression and idolatry stil. which is as if a thief, drunkard, whormaister, blasphemer, or other vicious, liver, being blamed by the laws of God which condemn these sins, should say; These are petty faults I confess, but they are not fundamental: for the only fundamental truth and ground of all God's law is Love, and that is the fulfilling of the law. Rom. 13.8 9.10. Gal. 5.14. 1 Tim. 1.5. Now this foundation I hold, for I profess to love God above all, and my neighbour as my s●lfe, on which ground as Christ saith 
e Mat. 22.40.  the law and prophets do depend; and this I do, howsoever I cannot keep my tongue from swearing, lying and ribaldry, nor my hands from picking and stealing, nor my body chaste, etc. yet my hart is good, I love God and my neighbour, and hope to he saved as well as the precisest puritan of them all, And now what will these ministers say to the●r profane parishioners, if thus they pleaded? for do not themselves thus plead for the trans●reossins of the first table, and violating of the testament of Christ, in their own false ministry, idolatrous rites, ceremonies, and forged worship. But as every true Christian hart knoweth that such profane ruffians, howsoever they say they love god, yet in deed they hate him, and howsoever the s●mme and end of all the Law is Love only, yet that love implieth obedience to every particular precept, and he which breaketh the least commandment and teacheth men so, shallbe called the least in the kingdom of heaven; as Christ 
f Mat 5.12  saith: so know they likeweise, or should know, that such superstitious idolaters, false and Antichristian Prelates and priests, howsoever they boast of true faith, yet by their works they deny it; and although Faith in Christ be the foundation of Christian religion, yet in implieth necessarily 
joh 3.36. Rom. 1.5.  obedience unto the ordinances of his Testament, even 
b joh 13.14 Mat 28.20  whatsoever is commanded them therein; and as the curse is denounced against all the transgressors of Moses law 
Gal 3.10  in any part thereof; so they shall not escape vengeance 
d Heb 2.2.3 & 3.7.8 & 10.26 etc. &. 12, 25.  that wilfully despise the law of Christ or any part of his testament, confirmed with his precious blood. And if thus we understand not and interpret those scriptures which sum up all christianity in Christ; we must needs confess that many false churches, even Rome itself is a true church; seeing they do profess such general grounds of Christ, as by plain evidence of scripture seem sufficient unto salvation, as appeareth by Council Trident. Se●s, 3. compared with Rom. 10.9. Act. 8.37, 38. 1 joh. 4.2. Mark. 16.16. also Rheims testam annot. on 1 Tim. 2.5. where they profess, Christ by nature to be truly both God and man, to be that on eternal priest and redeemer, which by his sacrifice and death upon the cross, hath reconciled us to God, and paid his blood as a full and sufficient ransom for all our sins, etc.  
How beit, that these ministers stumble no more at that we profess, let them know, we hold every general head and ground of doctrine more necessary to be known, than each particular branch of the same? & an error overthrowing a whole ground of religion, to be much more wicked than that which overturneth but a part thereof. Also that many of God's church, are ignorant of sundry particular doctrines of the Gospel yea 
Psa● 9.12  all of us in some, for none is perfect; yet that in some general grounds, ignorance is damnable; and further that the wilful and obstinate refusal or contempt of the least evident truth of the Gospel, is 
f jan. 3.2.  deadly and damnable of it own nature. Neither see we, how we should believe otherweise, unless with the Papists we think some sins venial some mortal As for Mr Barrowes words from joh. 16.13. which also, these ministers mistaking do 
g Rome 6.23 1. joh 2.4.6 & 3.6.8.9 ● pag. 171,  mislike; it is evident by his own writings 
h See confer. in th' Fleet with Mr. Hutch and D'Andrews 4 Reason,  to the contrary otherwhere, that he meant not so erroneously as they collect. But that promise made to the Apostles, he applieth unto all the members of Christ by proportion, though not in like measure. Which that it may be done, we learn of the Apostles themselves in other like cases. 2 Cor. 4.13. from Psalm. 116. Heb. 13.5.6. from jos. 1 & Psal. 118. etc.  
Their last reason is from the approbation of all the known churches in the world, which acknowledge this church (of Engl.) for their sister, and give unto them the right hand of fellowship. This point is handled before in this treatise, pag. 9 etc. & 48 & 51. etc. unto which places I refer the reader. Many scriptures and reasons these ministers allege from the primitive churches examples, that rejoiced for. and saluted one another; & of and of the comfort that a church may have in the communion and approbation of other churches. All which we grant; and d●e observe, how fast ●hey can cite scriptures for things that we deny not. But they say nothing for the controversy between them and us. which consisteth of these 3. points; 1 whither a people may not separate from evil and profess and walk in the truth unless or until other churches allow them 2. whether it be a necessary and undeniable argument, that whomsoever other churches approve, they are true churches, and so must be esteemed of all men; 3 and whither the reformed churches at this day, do approve of the church of England, in all or any of the differences for which we separate from them. The first of these is proved by all God's commandments, which require every man particularly to refrain all evil, and do that which is good: Exod. 20. The second is disproved by themselves in their writings against the Papists; who pressed them with such reasons. Let counsels (saith 
a In the answer to Mr Raynolds preface.  Mr Whitaker) be esteemed as they deserve: let their decrees be examined by God's word; and if they agree let them be received for that agreement: if not, let them be rejected for the contrary. To this agreeth their own Bishops Articles, ano 1562. Art. 21. and also their Apology; before alleged in 
b pag. 92.  this treatise; and finally Mr Bernard's own counsel. (though perhaps he knew no more than Caiaphas what he said.) saying; 
c pag. 8.  See into the glass of the word by thine own sight, without other men's spectacles etc. For the latter point, we know the reformed churches (as their constitution and writings show) are for us and against them; of which see before pag 10, etc. and it shall hereafter be further confirmed, if these ministers will deny it.  
Hitherto of the reasons alleged by the godly ministers wherein how they have proved and settled their first position; let the godly wise judge. Next follow their answers to the objections made by us. And these they make two.  
First, that their church of Engl. was not gathered by such means as God in his word hath ordained and sanctified for the gathering of his Church. 
d pag. 18●  Secondly, 
e pag. 191.  that they communicate together in a false and idolatrous outward worship of God, which is polluted with the writings of men, vidz. with read slinted prayers, homilies, catechisms, etc.  
Here let it first be observed, that whereas Mr Barrow (whose books they would seem to answer,) hath 
f Refut. of Giff pag, 1.  given 4. causes of our separation, namely the 1. false worship, 2. profane people, 3 false ministry, and 4. Antichristian hierarchy; these godly ministers like the unjust steward 
g Luk 16, 6  that set down fifty for five score, have contracted the 4. causes into 2. for what cause let him that readeth consider.  
Secondly in the two which they profess to answer, they keep not the words by Mr Barrow there set down; as to begin with the first; he saith For that the profane ungodly multitudes without exception of any one person are with them received into and retained in the bosom of the church These 
Refut pag 1  ministers set down the point to be about the not gathering by due means. Whereas if it were granted that they had due means of gathering, yet the exception made is of force against them, rather more than less for they that have the true means of gathering a church, and yet gather it amiss; the greater is their sin.  
Now to the particulars, whereas Mr Barrow had first 
a Dis, p, 8.  showed by many scriptures and reasons what manner persons were to be the matter of God's church; and then compared here with the people of the church of Engl. where all sorts of wicked persons are admitted & kept in communion: to this the ministers answer, 
b pag. 182.183, joh 20.19.  First that they might lawfully be accounted a true church, though it could not appear that they were at the first rightly gathered. For even as the Disciples might be well assured of Christ's bodily presence amongst them when they saw and felt him, though they could not have discerned which way or how he could possibly come in. so may we esteem them a true church, of whose present profession and faith we are well assured, though we cannot see by what means they were first gathered. This answer of theirs is full of error and fraud; for, (not to speak how they corrupt Mr Barrowes words in the places which they quote; by leaving out things of special importance,) first they blamed because all profane & wicked persons are of the mater their church; they tell us, they may esteem them a true church of whose present profession and faith, they are well assured. If this answer be direct and to the purpose than we must believe that the godly ministers are well assured of the present profession and faith of all the lewd, profane. irreligious and wicked persons in the realm, which are members of the church of Engl. Against these was the exception made; for these the answer is given, unless they answer their own fancies. and now what assurance the ministers have of such men's faith, let the faithful judge.  
Secondly the similitude which they bring, is a great abuse of the reader, whom they would blind with a false comparison; which if it were duly made, would make against them thus. As the disciples might be well a●●ured of Christ's bodily presence when they saw and felt him etc. so men may he well assured of the wickeds bodily presence in the church of Engl: when they see and feel them, as who do not? But now as these men have made the parable, what likelihood of truth is there in it, for justifying the ungodly? If a man seeing a Priest in bed with one of the Pope's courtesans, should blame him for this fornication, and an other to defend him should plead thus; As we are sure that Sarah was Abraham's wife, though we cannot tell when or how they were married. so may we esteem these two (of whose present chascity we are well assured,) to be lawful man and wife, though we cannot tell how they came together; would this be a sufficient defence? Yet lo when Mr Barrow blamed 
Dis. p. 10.  the Priests of England for linking themselves in the bed of spiritual love, with the idolatrous Papists and all other wicked of the land, at the beginning of Q. Eliz. and continuing in like sinful commixtur unto this day: these Ministers now, to save their credit, tell us an example of Christ presence, etc. as before is seen. Yea the indignity of it stayeth not here; for as the Apostle by the Ministry of the gospel prepared the church of Corinth, as a pure virgin for her husband Christ, so these men pretending to be true Ministers, 
2 Cor 11.24  will have Papists, Atheists, profane and wicked persons, to be Hephzi-bah 
a I●a. 62, 4.  people in whom God delighteth; they will bring this sinful and adulterous generation, even all the ungodly in the land, unto the bed of Christ in his church, whether he will or no Which high transgression, is the overthrow of the main ground of the gospel; which ever since it began to be sounded in the world, hath proclaimed a separation of the children of God from the children of Belial, as before hath been proved. This being thus observed, how these ministers have miss at first o● the question; the further they go, the further they stray, and run themselves out of breath in vain. For neither the examples of Melchisedek, job, Cornelius etc. nor their reasons following of 2 other means of gathering the church then by the preaching of the Gospel; 3 of the preaching of Mr. Wickliff. &c 4 & 5 of the course that Q Elizab. took for bringing the Gospel in again etc. none of these (I say) will prove either that open profane and wicked persons, may be received and kept in the bosom of the church; or that there be not multitudes of open profane and wicked, members of the church of England. Their present lamentable estate proclaimeth this latter to all men that have conscience; their own writings also heretofore do strongly confirm it: and all the scriptures cry out against the former & teach a separation as before in this treatise, and in sundry other books is manifested.  
As these ministers have thus passed by the main controversy; so have they in their pretended answers, inserted some things corruptly and fraudulently: which I will briefly touch First, for to bolster out the constrained profession of faith, and joining to the church which their people are compelled unto, they plead; 
b pag. 185.  that Since Kings became nursing fathers etc. to the church; their laws have been means to bring men to the outward society of the church; and the parable proveth, that men may be compelled to come; Luk. 14, 23.  
This doctrine openeth a door in the church to all the profane in the world, contrary to the scriptures; Isa 25.2 & 35.8, 9.2 Chron. 23.19. Reu. 21.27. Levit. 10.14. Zac. 14.21, 2 Cor. 6.14, 17. Act. 2.41. & 19.9. For if a prince may compel some of his subjects to be members of the church, he may compel all; and if one prince may do it, all may. So if there were such an Emperor as Augustus that commanded 
c Luk. 2.1,  all the world to be taxed, he might also command and compel all the world to be joined unto the church. And thus the world and the church, between whom there hath been perpetual war, might soon be reconciled. If this be a lawful and orderly course, it is strange that Christ sent forth poor fishermen to convert souls by preaching, and set not the princes, (which he could as easily have done, seeing he had 
a Ma 28, 18  all power in heaven, & in earth) to make disciples by compulsion and penalty.  
Now for the parable they allege, it is apparent, that the same servant was sent to 
b verse 17.21.22, 23.  compel, that was before sent to call the invited: and if this be meant of the Magistrate then, kings must leave governing and go to preaching. We find in the scripture, that compulsion is not always by the civil sword, but sometime by instant and earnest urging of the word and doctrine; as they that 
c Gal 6, 12  compelled the Galatians to be circumcised; and he that 
d Gal 2, 14  compelled the Gentiles to judaize. And from this word compel, to urge or gather a civil forced compulsion, is with no more reason or colour, then as if some factious rebels should take up arms for to establish religion; and allege how it is written 
e Ma 11, 12  the kingdom of heaven suffreth violence, and the violent take it by force For as force and violence here, is not civil but spiritual; so is compulsion to be taken in the parable. But a throne (saith Solomon) gets up in a drunkards' hand; and a parable in the mouth of fools. Prou. 26.9.  
They allege 
f pag. 185.  that the first conversion of our land to the faith of Christ, was by preaching of the gospel. Whether this were so or not, remaineth for them to prove in their next book for in this they do it not. They must (I suppose) take the preaching of the gospel in a large sense, if they will prove it. For as it is uncertain what was the faith of the ancient Britons, or how they were converted; so for the English Saxons which were conuerted from Paganism, Mr Bale one of their own writers) saith 
g john Bale Cent. 1. scri Brit, fol. 35  that Austen the Roman was sent as an Apostle from Gregory 1. to convert them to a popish faith. And by an other Chronicler we learn 
h Chr. Ranulph, Ci●●er.  that Pope Gregory 1. sent this Austen the monk into Engl. with forty monks moe, which entered the isle of Thennet on the east side of Kent, with a cross & with banners displayed, having a crucifix painted vpon every one of them singing the Litany, with Orate pro nobis. to all Angels, Archangels, patriarchs, Prophets, Priests, Apostles, Martyrs, Confessors, Virgins, Monks Nuns, Heremites, and finally to all he Saints and she Saints, that they might have good luck, and well to far, in setting forth their Romish religion. But howsoever the conversion of English men was then (which is not now to be stood upon till we hear the testimony of the best approved histories, which these men 
i pag, 186. Rome, 1. 1 Cor 1 etc.  say they have for their assertion) it is sure by the scriptures, that the churches in Rome. Corinth, and many other places were converted by the gospel: yet remain they not true churches still. But (say these ministers) since that time many have from age to age been called by the same means, And so say I, hath there been in Rome: yet is she a 
k Reu, 17,  harlot and not Christ's spouse. Great numbers (say they) were effuectally called in K. Edward's days. I answer, the whole land was compelled by civil force to change their form of service in part; and sundry true doctrines were taught in some places, which some believed: but many disobeyed and rebelled. as before 
l pag, 120.  is showed. Neither was that confuse popish multitude with a few convers therein, a true visible church. Mr Fox describeth the estate thereof by a similitude; a 
a Act. and monum, edit, 5, p. 1180.  a new face of things began now (saith he) to appear, as it were in a stage, new players coming in, and the old being thrust out. Thus upon that old stage of the popish church, came new players, to weet, new Bishops & Priests; and the 
b ibid. pag. 1181.  mass was then (at first) still by law retained, but the gospel and Epistle read in English; yet were not all new players for (as is there noted) the priests and clergy that yielded to the king's laws, were suffered to keep th●ir places, livings etc. After this the king appointed the c Archbishop of Cant, with other Bishops etc. to make one convenient and meet order, rite and fashion of common prayer and administration of Sacraments etc. who did so. Then in the Parliament following, it was agreed that all ministers in the realm should be bound to say and use the matin's, evensong celebrating of the Lords supper etc. in such order and form as was mentioned in the said book and none other or otherweise. But the players, it seemeth, played not their parts well. for after complaint is made, how 
ibidem. pag 1186.  by the cloaked contempt, will full winking, and stubborn disobedience of Bishops and old Popish curates; the book of common prayer was long after the publishing thereof either not known at all, or else very irreverently used through many places of the realm. Yet was there no great cause why the people should so despise it; for (as the K. answered to the rebels of Devonsh.) 
ibidem, pag 1189.  if the service in the church was good in Latin, it remaineth good in English; for nothing is altered, but to speak with knowledge, that which was spoken in ignorance. Now let the reader mind what was the estate of the church in those days; and see if the word of God will approve it.  
But there were say 
f pag, 186,  these men) great numbers by preaching so effectually called, that in Q Maries reign, many sealed the truth with their blood: I acknowledge it; and say also that as there have many martyrs died heretofore in the Popish church, so I doubt not, but great numbers at this day are by preaching so effectually called, in Rome, Spayn etc. that if Turks or Pagans should prevail over them, they would maintain & seal Christian religion with their blood, rather than submit to Mahomet. For (as one of your best ministers hath truly said) 
M Dering 23, Lectur on Epistle to the Hebrews, pag, 186.187  God of his infinite goodness who calls things that are not as though they were, even in that ministry, hath given grace unto his Saints; &, it was impossible that the man of sin should so much adulterate the word of God, but that it should be to the faithful a gospel of salvation. It is further alleged, h there were sundry secret congregations all Q Maries days which gladly received the gospel offered by Q. Eliz. & (say thes ministers) if it be said that they ceased to be the true churches of Christ, because they joined & became one body, with such as were newly come (and that not of conscience but for fear only) from idolatry: we answer, that they rather that-had fallen from the Gospel in Q. Mary's days were moved by Q Eliz: proclamation, to join themselves unto them, that had stood faithfully all that while,  
Here is still building upon the sands, for the profane & popish multitude had not received the gospel before, but (as hath been showed) wer● constrained by K. Edw. against their wills to hear English Matins in their churches, where they were wont to hear Lati● Latin mass; and were glad with all their hearts when their old blind devotion did again take place, and they might suck the blood of such as spoke against it. So they cannot rightly be said to fall from the gospel, which they never received. And what secret congregations there were in Q. Mary's days, I know not: but if they were so secret, as only they met now and then in private, and ordinarily went to church openly with Papists, they were not a true church of Christ. And that constrained, union of Papists and of Protestants at the beginning of Q Eliz reign, under Archbishops, Bishops, Priests etc. with most of the same matin's, evensongs, rites, ceremonies etc. that before had been imposed; this order can never be warranted by the testament of Christ, nor such a commixture proved to be a true church.  
And whereas it is noted for 
a pag. 187.  an other untruth that Mr. Barrow and Greenu●. should say, that in one day by the blast of her Majesties, trumpet at the Beginning of her reign, all sorts of men were drawn to a profession of the gospel, without any further means used: these ministers may be seen to be mere cavillers, and bend to deprave. For the words even as themselves have set 
b pag. 182.  them down, (whereby the reader may espy their falsehood) were these, where such profane multitudes were all immediately from public idolatry at one instant received or rather compelled to be members of this church, in some parish or other, without any due calling to the faith, by the preaching of the Gospel going before, or orderly joining together in the faith, there being no voluntary or particular confession of their own faith etc.  
Now these men to reign an untruth, yea an other untruth when non● was afore, have among other things, changed without any due calling to the faith into without any further means used; and then to convince this their own fiction, they tell us of sundry preachers sent between November & Midsummer that called many. But his neither cleareth them of corrupt dealing, nor proveth that the whole realm which at Midsummer was compelled to this church, worship, ministry, etc. was duly called unto the faith: much less that they orderly joined together in the same. So that the untruth must rest in their own bosom.  

pag. 188.  This being proved (say these ministers) that there was a true Church in thi● land, before her Majesty's reign; the question must not be whether the means she used were the right means for the first calling and converting a people in the faith; but weather she took not a lawful course for the recalling and reuniting of her subjects unto those true professors, whose fellowship they had forsaken.  
Lo how these men run on, as if they had proved that, whereof we have yet heard scarce any show of proof. And altering closely the question, they say there was a true church in the land; whereas they must prou● a true church of the land, as now it is and long hath been esteemed the Church of England, having an Archbishop and other officers over it, which ●re in their Convocation house, the Representative Church of England. So it no● not being a true church the examples, they allege of reformation by the Kings of judah, fit not their turns; for judah was a true church, though some corruptions had crept in, as will easily do into the best.) Abijah the predecessor of Asa, maintained Gods true religion, and worship against idolatrous Israel both 
a 2 Cro 14.8 9.10. etc.  by word and sword. So Asa found not his kingdom a false church, as K. Edw: & Q Elizab. found England: yet used he that great care for reformation, mentioned, 2 Chro. 14. & 15. and his son jehoshaphat after him greater care both to reform and teach the people. 2 Chron. 17. Afterwards when abominations had overspread the land, H●zekiah laboured a godly reformation, and opening the doors of the Lords house, he 
b 2 Chr. 13 2.3.  brought in the Priests and Levites, not the Chemarins or Baal's Priests, as the popish clergy (which their own notes on Reu. 9.3. acknowledge to be the Locusts of the bottomless pit) were brought in or rather retained still in this church, as Mr Fox showeth, Hezekiah sent 
c 2 Chr. 30 6.  over all the land to convert the people from idolatry; who 
d vers. 10  laughed the messengers to scorn and mocked them howbeit 
e vers. 11.  divers submitted themselves and came to jerusalem; and it was God that gave 
e vers. 11.  judah a hart to obey the King and rulers according to his word Neither were any admitted to the Passeover but such as had voluntarily yielded, repent, and either sanctified themselves, or else (being prevented through want of time) were 
f vers. 12.  healed (or cleansed) of the Lord, at the King's prayer. The other disobedient. Israelites God punished 
g vers. 18 19.20.  by the sword and slavery of Asshur, because they would not obey the voice of the Lord their God. Finally josijah 
h 2 Kin. 18 10.11.12: 2 Chr. 34.  purged the land of idols & false worship, reduced his people unto the true service of God; which they with himself had 
i vers. 30.31.32.  covenanted to walk in.  
These examples we acknowledge all Christian princes should follow, having equal power with these Kings of judah, to abolish all idolatry within their dominions; yea and to punish obstinate idolaters, and not suffer any superstitious worship among their. subjects, 
Fides suadenda est non imperanda. Bern. in Cantic.  but to procure their conversion by the word, yet not to compel them to be members of the church, because they cannot give them faith and repentance, which is the only door into 
k vers. 30.31.32.  Christ's kingdom, and cannot be opened to any but by 
l Mar 1.15 & 16.15. ●6 Act, 2.37.38 & 8.36.377. Act 11.18. E●h. 2.8  God alone. Which doctrine and practise these ministers (if they would not learn out of holy writ) might have seen set forth in their own book of Martyrs; where when Ethelbert King of Kent was converted and Christened, and after him innumerable other daily came and were adjoined to the church yet the King (
m Act and monum. edi 5 pag. 105.  saith Mr Fox) compelled none; for he had learned that the faith and service of Christ, aught to be voluntary and not coacted.  
I acknowledge the Godly and gracious disposition and care of K. Ed. & Q Eliz. at the first for restoring of the Gospel; to be worthy of purpetuall praise and memory: and the error that was, in retaining the popish profane multitudes, the Antichristian clergy, the Romish worship worship turned into English, (some few gross things left out;) and th● other evils yet to be seen in the ecclesiastical estate; these I judge are rather to be imputed unto the false clergy men, which were trusted too much in thes matters & dealt not according to the trust reposed in them but sought to enrich themselves with the spoils of Babble and of jericho the Bishoprics benefices, and other like Romish revenues, rather the● for the build the house of God, upon the foundations of Zion. And this sin cleaveth fast unto these priests, even to this day; who cannot endure to have their portion spoken against, but think all 
a As appeareth by D downam's. Serm. on 1. Tim. 3.1. 2 pag. 80.81.86.87.  too little that they enjoy; when as for discharge of their functions in teaching the people, the most conscionable among themselves have complained to the Parliament 
b 2 Admon fol. 43.  that the word of God is negligently, fantastically, profanely and ●●thenishly preached; and all the land knoweth, that many ministers preach not at all.  
Whereas these ministers tell us 
c pag. 190,  of divers congregations, that have publicly professed their repentance for their former idolatry; it is well if so it be; & God give them grace to go forward in well doing. But they tell us not of any congregation that professeth repentance for their present idolatry, or that renounceth the communion of the other impenitent and profane parishes: which they should also do if they would be 
d 2 Cor, 6, 1●, 18.  the sons and daughters of the Lord almighty. Nay we know that if any among them do this, they are excommunicated ipso facto out of the church of England, by force of their canons, anno 160●.  
Finally, whereas these Ministers doubt not to affirm, that the whole land in the parliament held in the first year of her Majesty's reign, did enter into a solemn covenant with the Lord for renouncing of Popery, and receiving the Gospel. First they set not down what covenant the Parliament then made nor how they renounced Popery; and therefore that is to be judged of, when it shall more particularly be produced Secondly if then the Parliament house so did it is commendable in them but that the whole communialty of the realm can be said to do it with them, I utterly deny. For howsoever all subjects are and aught to submit to the good civil laws there enacted: and obedience may be enforced by 
e Rom. 13  the sword, if any man resist: yet in cases of conscience every man must live by 
f Hab. 2.4  his own faith; men must 
g Act 2.4.  gladly receive the word out of which all religion must be gathered all Kings and kingdoms 
h Psal. 2.  submitting unto the laws and ordinances in Chr●sts Testament if they would have blessing and salvation by him. And as the honourable in the Parliament, could not be baptised for the commons; so neither could they repent or covenant with God for them: but the people must yield their own willing consent, which they never did; but were and still are compelled by law and penalty to be of the church and religion established. Which how well they have brooked, let the testimonies of the ministers before alleged, and the irreligious walking of many thousand ever since manifest. For now our land is a reprouch to the idolatrous Papists 
a Ke●. Sur 8, book in the preface 2 Objection  for the multitude of Atheists and Machevillians that are therein.  
The second thing (which these Ministers say) we object against the whole body of their assemblies is, That they communicate together in a false and idolatrous outward worship of God, which is polluted with the writings of men, vid. with read stinted prayers, homilies, Catechisms and such like. To which they give this answer.  
First it is evident by the word, 
Answer.  that the church hath used and might lawfully use in prayer, and God's worship, a stinted and set form, of words. And here ●hey allege Num. 6 23.24. Deut 26.3.15. Psal. 22. & 92.1 Chro. 16.8.36. Luk. 11.2.  
Very strange it is, that after so much time and consideration; 
Reply.  men that profess to be ministers of the Gospel, should give such an answer. The thing objected against their worship made of the invention of the man of sin, was in the first answer to Mr Gifford (who shut his eyes, and would not see th' abominations of the same). 
b Refut. p. 8.  showed in sundry particulars; as the Romish fasts; feasts and holy days, Comminations, Rogations, Purifications, etc. blasphemous & heretical collects &c. which 
c Refut. pag 29. etc. Discover, p. 62. etc.  after were more plainly refuted These and the like evils contained in their liturgy translated out of the Massebook, and imposed upon their parishesr being by Mr Barrow blamed: now come these ministers and tell us of Psalms that David made, of forms of blessing and prayer, that God and our Lord Christ prescribeth to his church; and these must countenance and bear our all the popish trash that is in their service book.  
But it would far better have fitted their estate and worship, 
c Platima ● vitis pootie Damasus 1 f  if they had cited the Popes in stead of the patriarchs, Prophets and Apostles, who were altogether unacquainted with this Rom●sh service. For howsoever David made many Psalms, yet not he but Pope Damasus (as writers say) 
d Blat. Vtalimus. 1. i  ordained Glory be to the Father etc. to be added unto them, and they to be sung by turns, (as the church of Engl. yet useth;) and Pope Vitalian 
e Guilford Durammus.  to make up the music, brought in the Organs, Yea the foresaid Damasus 
f Act. and monum. edi, 5 pag, 1184.  enjoined Hierom to make an order of service for churches, and appoint what prayers should be said on every day, and how many Psalms etc. which being done, the Pope commanded all churches should use that order and none other And a much like exploit was performed by the Archbishop of Cant. and his brethren in K. Edward's days (as Mr Fox 
g Guilford Durandus Ifidorus.  reporteth) for the service now used still in Engl. Again, for the particulars, who framed the Anthems, Responds, Collects, 
h joan. Laziasdus,  and Kyries, that are said at matin's? neither Prophet nor Apostle, but as 
i Plativa de vit. Marcus 1,  some say pope Gregory I. and Pope Gelasius. And the same Pope Gregory put k the Pater noster into the mass. and commanded it to be sung; and Pope Mar●us I would have the Nicene Creed sung after; the Gospel. Pope Anacletus thought it fit the priest and people should salute one another another in service time, and therefore 
〈…〉  appointed the one to say. T●● Lord hears 〈◊〉, and the other to answer, And with thy spirit. Pope 〈◊〉 
〈…〉  put i● at the Sacrament O lamb of God that takest away the sins of the w●rl●, 
〈…〉  h●u● mercy on us; Pope Symmachus●d added the hymme Glory be to G●d on high; and the other Pope's b●ought in their parts, and patched together the●r Litany, & liturgy out of which the English seruicebook is taken, Likewise for the fasting days and holy festivities, though the Apostles appointed them not, yet the Popes did: Telesohorus 
d Pla●ina. Tel●sphorus & Celistus 1.  would have the Lent to be fasted; and Pope Calistus the fowr times in the year, or Imbring days. Pope Sylvester 1. 
e Bergomen sis.  added the Wednesdays, Fridays and Satur●ayes weekly; and Pope Innocent 3. 
f Lyb 3 decretal. Grego.  put unto the former almost all the Apostles eves. The Saints and Angels were also beholding to these Reverend fathers for hallowing their days. For generally all the Saints found such favour with Pope Boniface, 
g Volator, Platina. Bonif. 4.  that they had not only a catholic holy day given them, called All-hallomes, but a famous Temple in Rome once dedicated to all the D●uils and called Pantheon, was turned by this holy Father into the name of Maria rotunda. and consecrated to the honour of the B Virgin‘ and all martyrs Pope Felix 3, 
i Fasci, tem  mad holy the day of the archangel Michael, 
h Lib Con  Boniface the 8. 
k Pap, suppl anno 1604 Reason of religion, 13.  showed like honour to the 4, Evangelists, and many other memorable gests are recorded of the Fathers of the See of Rome, whereof there is not a word in the Testament of Christ, that he or his disciples did ever the like. For they appointed not priests apparall, long gowns, tippers 4. horned caps, as did Pope Zacharie; nor a white linen surplice at service time, as did Pope Sylvester 1. They hallowed no Temples or Churches as did P. Hyginus, nor Churchyards, as did P. Calistus 1, Neither ordained ringing of bells to call the people to divine service, as did P. Sabinian. They appointed no Rood-loft to part the Chancel from the church, as did P. B●niface 2, nor hallowed Font to christian in; or Godfathers and Godmothers at baptism, as did P, Pius 1. and Hyginus. They commanded not the people to go procession as did Pope Agapetus 1. nor appointed any Bishoping or Confirmation of children, as did P, Clement. 1. with a great number more of like pranks used in the Romish service. which Christ's Apostles knew not, as their writings show. But the church of Engl. (as next heir of Rome's constitutions,) retaineth these relics, observeth these rites and a many more; for which the Papists do insult and say that from their treasure house, the religion now established hath learned the form of christening, Marrying, Churching of women, Visiting the sick, Burying: and sundry other like as the books translated out of theirs, do declare. And now what saith God's law for all such things unto his people? I am (saith he) 
l Leu 18, 2 3, &c,  the Lord your God. After the doing of the land of Egypt wherein ye dwell, shall ye not do: and after the doing of the land of Canaan whether I will bring you; shall ye not do; neither walk in their ordinances. My judgements shall ye do; and my ordinances shall ye keep, to walk in them: I am the Lord your God, Thus he forbade them not only the worship of false Gods: but even the imitation of idolatrous worship rites and ordinances in his service: wherefore he charged them again, that they should not so much as inquire or 
a Deut, 12, 30, 31,  ask how the nations served their Gods, that they might do so to the Lord their God. But whatsoever he commanded them, 
b vers. 32,  they should make heed to do it; putting nothing thereto, nor taking aught therfrom. Yet the Bishops and Priests of Engl. have almost all things in their Lei●ourgie, according to the doings of that spiritual 
c Revelation 11, 8,  Egypt the Romish church wherein they dwelled, and have imitated her worships‘ orders, ceremonies etc. retained her ministry, prelacy, courts, and canons: th● Latin being turned into English, and some gross superfluities left ou●. And in defence of this worship, have these godly ministers written, & Mr Bernard published their work: wherein if the reader see not a so●nd proof of the things that Mr Barrow (whose errors they pretend to confute) reproved; he must impute it to the badness of their cause, which will scars admit of any colour from the book of God. For (besides the abuse of holy scriptures alleged to justify these popish stratagems,) how sound & divine, (or rather how fond and corrupt) is the reasoning of these men, from God's example and authority, unto their own practice and power that because the Lord God gave forms of blessing, prayer and psalms to his people, (as the scriptures which they cite do show) therefore their Lords the Prelates may give them also prescript words for blessing, prayer, and Psalms etc. as is to be seen in their service book. Can we think that jeroboam had so slender a reason for his golden calves? Why do not these men also plead, that God gave a law by Moses? therefore there may a law be given likewise by the Bishops: or, th' Apostles wrote a new Testament, therefore the Convocation house may also write a Testament or Gospel; & bring it into the church? If the Prophet's practice will bear them out in the one: I see no cause why it may not uphold them in the other. Well, seeing neither Mr Gifford heretofore, nor these ministers now, can bring better defence for the work of their own hands wherewith they worship or rather provoke the Lords I leave them to consider of those laws that every where cry 
d Deu 5, 8, 9, 32, 33 & 6 14, 15, 25 & 7, 25 26, & 12, 2 3.30 &c Isa 1.12.13 & 29, 13.14. Ier, 1, 16. Reu. 17.2. & 18.3, 11 12, 20,  out against and show the punishment of idolatry. Neither is it needful to keep the Reader with longer answer, seeing Mr Barrow in the fornamed books, and Mr Greenwood in a peculiar treatise against these stinted prayers, and se● worship have proved the unlawfulness of them by many reasons, which neither these ministers nor any other have yet taken away. And when they write again, let them not bring proofs for things that we deny not; as that Daunds Psalms may be sung in the church; and that in our prayers we may use or apply, the words that other holy men before used in their prayers, upon like occasions; both these we grant and practise: but let them prove, (if they be able and their right hand can help them, that their own writetnn prayers, psalms etc. may be read and sung in churches, church●●, as Gods true worship and then also they may command the clouds to rain no more, and may cause to cease the bottles of heaven.  
Like to their former plea, and maintenance of their service book, is also their answer for Catechisms; as for Homilies it seems they leave the the defence of them to the simple priests that read them, but Catechisms are used even by the learned preachers, therefore somewhat they say for them, as 
a pag. 196.  that the principles of religion were taught in the churches of old, Rom 2.20, & 6 17.2 Tim, 1 13, Heb. 5.12.13, 14 and 6, 1.2. But these ministers are either simple or very deceitful, so to turn away from the question For we never deneyed that the grounds and heads of Christian religion should be taught to the people; far be it from us: but this we say, the Prophets and Apostles are not found to prescribe set words for the minister to teach, or the people to answer being examined. And that therefore these Bishops and Priests are very presumptuous, that will take upon them to do that which Christ's Apostles never did in the churches. Again, that if those men of God had to done; yet seeing the writings of Prophets and Apostles are canonical scriptures, and so are no men's writings now: it will by no means follow, that if they wrote catechisms to be used in the Church, therefore men may writ some for like use now. Yea rather why are they not content with that which is already written in the scriptures, but run to erroneous catechisms of humane writers, such as is that authorized catechism in the book of common prayer, commanded to be used in the church of England?  
Having heard what these godly ministers say for their people, and service book; I expected somewhat also, for defence of their own minister, and the ecclesiastical government of their Lords the Prelates; which were the other two ●eads of error excepted against, in the forenamed books. But in both these they are silent; and reason there may be for it: for the inferior ministry hangs upon the superior, the hierarchy, and now the godly ministers are in a great straight, for either they must lose their ministry, and then what boots it to plead for the same, or else they must, (though they be loath) be buxom and submit to their Fathers the Bishops; and when this is done, it may be we shall see some such defence of two later, as we have already of the former. Mr Bernard himself hath begun fayrly; for whereas a while since he was hot against the Bishops. he now cannot endure they should be 
b pag. 71,  called Antichristian proud prelate's or the like; and thinks 
c pag, 142.  it can never be proved, that the entrance into the ministry by the Prelates, is a false entrance. So it is not to be thought but his Ordinary and he will agree well enough. Well howsoever it be, God (I doubt not) will turn all things to his own glory and furtherance of his truth; yea even the writings of these adversaries, shallbe a means to stir men up unto a consideration of their ways, which God give them grace for to do, and to turn their feet into the paths of life and peace that they may find rest unto their souls.    

AN ANSWER TO Mr. Crashawes 4. questions propounded in his sermon preached at the Cross Febr: 14, 1607, and printed 1608.  
Mr. Crashawe preaching upon jer. 51, 11. We would have cured Babel but she would not be healed etc. took occasion 
a pag, 26. etc.  to inveigh against such as have separated from the Church of Engl. as from Babel, in to a covenant and communion (as he saith) of their own devising. To convince this bitter (as he calleth it) and schismatical separation, he asketh but 4. questions; whereunto if they can give him satisfaction, he promiseth he willbe one of them. Now though this promise be not in his own power to perform, (for 
b Rom. 9.16  it is not in him that willeth, nor in him that runneth, but in God that showeth mercy;) yet shall it not be amiss to labour for his satisfaction herein; for who can tell, but there may be given him an understanding ear, and tender hart, for to convert that God may heal him if not, that his own writing may be a witness, himself is one of those whom we would have cured in Babel, but he would not be healed. I will not stand upon his interpretation of the scripture treated of whether it be the direct and proper meaning of that place: but will come unto the demands by him propounded.  
HIs first question consisting of many branches is summed up by himself in this one: Wherein are we deadly and incurably wounded? 
1 Questions.   
Your demand being, as the particulars show of the wounds of sin and corruption. I answer. First we deny not, but all your sins are curable, 
Answer.  as we trust in the mercy of God, if you repent of them, and beleeu his promises: neither have we ever thought your wounds in this sense, to be 
c 1 john. 5, 16.  deadly or incurable. Secondly, the sins that your church lieth in, & which if they be not repent of, and pardoned in the mercy of Christ, are 
d Rom 6, 23.  deadly and will destroy the soul for ever; have heretofore by such as would have cured you, been set before your eyes, in 
e Refut, of Gifford. Discovery Apolog. &c  large and ample treatises, showing these capital transgressions, 1 Your confuse people, 2 false worship, 3 antichristian hierarchy or church-government, 4 and false ministry therefrom derived: that strange it is, you should yet ask what deadly wounds you have; and it makes us fear, your state is like his that sleepeth in the midds of the sea, in the top of the mast, & 
f Prou. 22, 34, 33.  saith, they have stricken me, but I was not sick, they have beaten me but I knew it not. You have also here 
a supra, pag. 74. etc.  in this treatise arguments to prove that Christ is not the head, Mediator, Prophet, Priest & King of your church: which if it be so, no Christian can doubt, but your wounds in than selves are 
b joh. 8, 24 Act 4.12  deadly.  
Though this were enough for Answer to your question in general; yet because the particulars which you further demand, are stembling blocks unto the weak; I also will labour to remove them away.  
Q. What fundamental wound is in our doctrine.  
A. This among others, that you teach and mainteyn both by word and practice, that all sorts of people, though profane and wicked are to be received into and retained in the church; which is contrary to the foundation of the Gospel laid by God himself Gen. 3 15. That such is your doctrine, both your sermoris and printed books, and the estate of your church since the planting thereof, to this time: do confirm.  
Q. What deadly corruption is in our discipline, such as e●●s out the hart, and life and being of a church.  
A. First, they which execute it, as the Prelate's Commissaries, etc. are antichristian; so judged & proved long since by the reformed churches by th● better son of your own ministers heretofore & now living & by others. Seconly; in the execution of it, the good are consured & excommunicated: the wicked favoured and tolerated. That the good are censured, appeareth by the late Canons of your church: for in them it is enacted 
c Canons ano 1603 Can 4, 6, 7.8. etc.  against such, as blame or resist any of your ungodly ceremonies, ordinances, will worship, etc. in your Communion book; book of ordering, Bishop's Priests and Deacons, etc. that they shall be excommunicated ipso facto, and not be restored, until they repent and publicly revoke such (as you call them) their wicked errors That the wicked are favoured, and tolerated; though experience may teach every man, yet your own testimonies willbe most pregnant. Mr Bradshaw one of your fellow Ministers in his 11. Argument against the ceremonies of your church complaineth that the 〈◊〉 missions of your ceremonies make a minister by your law more subject to deprivation and suspension, than the commission of the sowlest crimes, even dr●nke●●●s, blasphemy, gross ignorance, and uncleanness. Which he proveth. by 〈◊〉 such ●i●e persons (as he saith that are ministry. Some that have been 〈◊〉 to be carried home in a wheel barrow. Some that coming home drunken from the market town, have been found sleeping under a hedge in their own filth. Some that knowing and consenting to their wife's filthiness, that he might swear he knew no such matter by her since he married her, married her again the morning before he was to answer it upon his oath. Delivering the sacrament to a filthy woman, instead of Take, eat, said Turn thee, turn thee etc. To another that would take it in her hand, he put it in her mouth, and said Cob, Cob, or Daw, Daw, he knows not whether. Dr Henry Parry, tells us 
d In his pre before Vrsinus Catechism.  of a 〈◊〉 of caterpillars, the very trash and riff raff of our nation etc. that have like 〈◊〉 of idle and dissolute quality, only moved, thereto in a lazy speculation, laid wicked & sacrilegious hands on the Lord's ark, taken his undefiled testimonies in their defiled mouths, disgraced, defaced and defamed the glory and Majesty of di●ine rites and mysteries etc. they run like hungry companions with an eye only to the flesh pots; & so sell both themselves and their people for 
a ibidem  morsel of bread and mess of pottage to the Devil. He mentioneth also accursed and simonical patrons who have sodered & simoned the walls of their houses with the very blood of souls. some others among you speaking of that a miserable vulgus that wo●ful● crew that racked regiment of dunstical and unlettered Sir john's, which have even covered the land like the frogs of Egypt, leading many thou sands with themselves into the ditch; and ●he same not still graced & countenanced by the Prelate's as being their creatures. And others complayn that 
b Removal of imput laid on the ministers of Devo. and Corn. p. 27  whole swarms of idle. scandalous, popish &, nonresident Ministers are tolerated every where amongst you. Yourself (Mr Crashawe) in this very sermon tell in of 
c pag, 169  little petty Babylon's, namely incurable sins among you 1. That great sacrilege and church robbing as you call it committed by Impropriations, in which case (you affirm) at this day almost half of the kingdom is, whereby it comes to pass that an ignorant and unpreaching ministry is set over a great part of your people which is the source and fountain of all other evils in your church. 2. The ungodly players interludes. so rise in the nations; which you call a bellish device, the Devils own recreation to mock at holy things, by him delivered to the heathen, from them to the Papists, and from them to you, And these (you say) bring religion and holy things upon the stage And hypocrisy a child of hell must bear the names of two churches of God Nicholas S. Antling's, Simon, S. Mary●veries: which churches by these miscreants are thus dishonoured (you say) not on the stage only, but even in print. To this you add, ●heir continual profaneness on their phrases, and sometime Atheism and blasphemy; their continual profanening of the Sabbath, which generally in the country is their play day, and oftentimes God's divine service hindered, or cut shorter, to make room and give time for the Devil's service. Many other like testimonies might I allege from your own mouths of exceeding impiety openly practised, not by the people only, but by the Priests and Clergy and how doth your discipline heal these corruptions; when by your own grant, such caitiffs are graced and countenanced by the prelate's, when your law punisheth the conscionable ministers, more than such; as yourself 
d pag, 169:  say of your petty Babylon of Impropriations. this deep wound was once curable enough &c. but now (alas) how incurable it is, he observes but little that sees not. And unless the K. Majesty vouchsafe to take the matter into his hands, otherweise it is incurable. Again you say 
e pag, 172·  of that horrible abuse of the Sabbath etc. that est is hath been complained of, and some have endeavoured to heal it, but it is 〈◊〉 of Babylon that will not be healed, but rather it creps 〈◊〉 a 〈◊〉 though the whole state from the foot to the head. and if you would yet have more add hereunto Mr Jacob's testimony, (who hath so manfully stood for your church,) The right and true discipline ecclesiastical (saith he) in ●ch proper visible church, is one main part of the ordinary means of salvation apppointed by God for every soul, and this we in England utterly want.  
Now let the reader judge, whether there be not deadly corruption in your discipline, which even in a true church, would soon eat out (if it were not healed) the hart and life and being of a church, according to your demand. But you proceed and ask us.  
Q. What book of Canonical scripture receive we not? what hold▪ we for Canonical: that is not.  
A. What book of Canonical scripture received not the idolatrous Is●elites? what held they for Canonical that was not? The like I ask for the Arians, Anabaptists and sundry other heretics of these times and shall these, or any of them be therefore true churches? Again in your own church, there is read for holy scripture, erroneous books and lying stories, as Toby, judith and other Apocrypha. Your Homilies 
a 〈…〉, 2 pag. 325.  citing th●̄, call them holy scripture, and say the holy Ghost speaketh so in the scriptures: & the chiefest ministers of your church, sometimes preach and take texts out of them. If this be not to hold them canonical, I know not what you count canonical.  
Q. What sacrament that Christ ordained do we want? and what have we more than Christ ordained?  
A. What sacrament wanted jeroboam the son of Nebat? what had he more than God ordained? Or the Anabaptists at this day? Yet if one would stand with you he might by your Communion book prove Confirmation to be a sacrament: but who ordained it, I cannot tell, unless Pope Clement. Again, Mr Bradshaw a man of your own church and profession, 
b 9 Argum against the ceremonies.  hath proved against you in print that your Cross in baptism, ring in marriage, surplice etc. are sacraments in your church, and not of divine institution.  
Q. What article of faith deny we? or what hold we for an article of faith this is not?  
A. Suppose that the Papists, should ask you such a question, what would you answer? For all the Creeds that are in your communion book; are they not with every article, neither more nor less in the mass book and other popish pamphlets? The Papists and you both confess Christ in words, both deny him in practice  
Q. What fundamental heresy doth our doctrine maintain?  
A. The unlawful commixture of the children of God and children of the Devil, in one church and communion, is a fundamental heresy being stiffly maintained. All the scriptures condemn it; all well reformed churches avoid it, nature itself teacheth to abhor it: yet in such profane communion your church abiderh; and you will not endure to b●●r of a separation.  
Q. What have we in our church that overthrows the being of a church?  
A. A popish▪ Clergy, and Laity.  
Q. What is necessarily required to make a church that we do want?  
A. You want both matter and form of a true church, namely a people called of God, separated from the world, and united with Christ and one with another, according to the rules of his eternal Testament.  
Q. I will end as I began, wherein are we deadly and incurably wounded?  
A. The sins before mentioned, are deadly wounds of Satan; the only cure is by repentance and faith in Christ jesus. ●ut as yet you be far from cure, for lo you make questions of your diseases; and will not believe that you are sick, Hereupon you refuse all salves and medicines; and will neither have physician nor chirurgeon to meddle with your sores. If any Leech come with a curing 
a Pro 15, 4  tongue. and words that be leaves of the tree of life, which serve 
b Rev 22.2  to heal the nations with, if he offer to touch the Egyptian ulcers that appear in your worship, church-government, ministry, ceremonies, etc. he is presently thrust out of doors; and if he dare but affirm these or any of these to be disceases and botches in your body, sins against God, or repugnant to his word; he is 
c Canons. 1603.  excommunicated ipso facto, by the decrees of the whole representative church of England. And are you willing now to be healed? Nay if any among you, not meddling with the public estate of your church, but feeling or fearing his own particular soul sickness, do resort to a physician (whose receipts are not after the common sort,) for advise about his health, or of friendship and acquaintance to see him: he is subject to the censure and thunderbolt of your church. Witness the late practice in Norwich; where certain citizens were excommunicated for resorting unto and praying with Mr Robinson a man worthily reverenced of all the city for the graces of God in him as yourself also I suppose will acknowledge,) and to whom the cure and charge of their souls, was ere while committed. Would any unmerciful man have dealt so with his bondslave in a case of bodily sickness? But hereby all may see what small hope there is of Curing the canker of your church.  
THe second question is, Are they (themselves) healed? 
2 Question  then where were they healed? where were they called? where were they regenerate and begotten to Christ? was it not in the womb of this our church, and by means of the immortal seed of God's word that is daily sown in our church, a holy church, a church of God, where in ordinarily men are called and brought to God. 
Answer   
The wind bloweth where it will, and we hear the sound thereof but know not whence it cometh and whether it goeth: 
c job. 3.8.  so is every one that is b●rne of the spirit. To your demand than I answer; we wer● c●ll●● being in B●●ylon, your Church I mean, which restraineth the 〈◊〉 by unrighteousness; there was our regeneration begun Where we fa● in darkness and in the shadow of death; the light of God appeared▪ and 〈◊〉 us l●fe. If you yet inquire how this was, I refer you to 〈…〉 brought light out of darkness, and daily 
a 〈◊〉 5●, 16  bringeth forth the 〈…〉 treasure; and his ways are past finding out: for as I 
b 〈◊〉, 11 5  kn●w 〈◊〉 t●e way of the wind, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child, so know I not the work of God, that worketh all. If you demand of the means; it was doubtless the word and spirit of the Lord, without which there is no calling, no regeneration. Now where you ask, how then we can deny that to be a true church, wherein 〈◊〉 men are called and borough to God? I answer; first, you take up more th●n we lay down when you say ordinarily: for the ordinary and common fruit of the word among you, is through your own corrupt handling and hearing of it, evil and not good, the many walk the broad way, and God's calling is like, to that which the Prophet saith 
c Ier, 3, 14,  one of a city and two of a tribe, in respect of the worldly multitudes.  
Secondly, all the Saints are not begotten unto Christ in the womb of a true particular church for when the Apostle preached among 
d Act. 17.22.33.34.  Pagans & converted many, I would know in the womb of what church they were begotten? they were first converted unto Christ, before ever they were in any other church, then that jerusalem which is above, & 
e Gal. 4, 26  the mother of all the elect. Let us come to later times; yourselves when you began to be a church of protestants, in what particular womb were your people begotten? I suppose if in any, it was in the womb of your mother church of Rome, where they had both received Baptism the seal of regeneration, and been catechised in Christian religion: and then look how yourselves can deny that to be a true church, or be free of unthankfulness towards her that bore you.  
But you prosecute your cause against us, and would drive us either to say, there is indeed a true ministry of the word among you. but it is not powerful to any but ourselves; or else that we were not called in your church, but since we left you. To the first I answer; there is no necessity that we must grant a true ministry; for first we hold that the true word may be put in 
f Num, 23 5, 26. etc.  Balaamites mouths, and a false ministry may through God's wondrous grace, beget faith in his elect: if you say otherweise you will shake the foundation of your English church, laid by Aust●● the monk Pope Gregory's Apostle; and damn all your late fathers under the Roman Clergy. Secondly, we ●ie not the grace of God in the true church to the ministers lips: knowing that men by other means are often converted to the Lord. And if your ministers in England hold that men cannot be begotten to Christ among them, but by their preaching; you may take up your Litany (which causeless you use for us) and say from this horrible and bellish pride, good Lord deliver them. As they cannot restreyn the wind from blowing: so much less the spirit of God from breathing, out of other places than ministers mouths.  
To the second also I answer; that it is one thing to be called in your church, as you speak; and another thing to be called by your church or ministry, as I think you mean. It is written Reu. 18.4. Go out of her my people. you see here God's people were in Babylon, and are called out of the same, not by Babel itself, or any minister of it, buy by a voice from heaven. So we might be called in your church. though not by the same. And thus we have not bard ourselves from pleading against you, as you would bear men in hand: neither yet show you of whom or where you had that which you say we all stoutly answer and stiffly stand to it, namely that we leave your church merely & only out of conscience etc. We have a better ground if you would receive it, even the Law of the Lord that so commandeth both us and our consciences.  
Conscience is the blind Papists common plea: but we know that man's conscience is as much 
a 'tis 1, 15,  defiled as any other part or power of his soul or body; and therefore it may be no rule of our actions, but the law of God only, which is 
b Psal. 19  pure, perfect, and undefiled. Yet you will needs proceed and say, than we had conscience before we left you. I answer yea, or else we would not have left you. Think you that your predecessors had no conscience when they left the Popish church? Then where (say you of us, and mind whether the Papists will not say as much of you where) came they to that conscience and care of their salvation but in our church? You are answered before, we had it in your church, as God's people had in Babylon. But that (I suppose) will not satisfy you, but it was you will say, by your church and ministry. Therefore I distinguish and consider of conscience in general and in particular General lie, when men so far as they are taught and see, do walk carefully: & this I confess we had through God's grace & by means of your church: this also I acknowledge many among you have, walking conscionably so far as they see and know. The same I am persuaded also of many Papists and other misbelievers. But as a conscionable Papist or Anabaptist, when a further light of the Gospel ariseth unto him, must leave that church, wherein his conscience was so far informed, because it is not the true church of God: so must a conscionable Protestant do with your church, when God giveth him to see the false estate wherein you stand although you work many good effects in a man's hart and conscience.  
Particularly a good conscience is to be considered in this or that particular action, as for example in this particular of our separation; and so we had not this good conscience from or by your church or ministenistery; for you thought to corrupt our consciences, and keep us still in Babylon; we had not, I say, this good conscience by your means, vnles●e it be by accident and against your wills, and so no thank unto you, as he that would have killed his enemy, and unawares cured him of an imposthume: thus indeed many of us have been brought to this good conscience of separation. For whereas heretofore many of your ministers unawares have discovered the unlawfulness of the prelacy, priesthood, liturgy and other enormities of your church: we have hereupon thought, how it could be the church of Christ, which thus lay under Antichrist. and pressing you with your own doctrines we have found that you cannot but either go from that wh●ch before you taught: or el● yield us our separation, which you so earnestly condemn. Of which thing there is 
a pag. 2.3 etc.  before spoken in this treatise.  

3 Question  THe third question is; How have th●y sought and sufficiently endeavoured our healing? and till they have done all that possible can be done for our healing, 
Answer.  how dare they forsake us?  
I answer, we have sought your healing, even as by your own doctrine the faithful jews sought the cure of Babel; and as you selves have sought the healing of R●me. The means which the jews and yourselves have used to cure Babel, you show in 
b pag. 12 & 42.  your sermon to be three Instruction, example, pr●yer. By instruction, you say, laying op●n their errors, discovering their impieties, and laying before them the excellency of true religion. Thus (say I,) have we done with you witness (besides our speeches and conferences) the many books of this argument, which are publised in print. 2 By example (you say) practising their own religion ●uen before their very faces, nor fearing their scorns and rebukes etc. And to (say I) have we practised our religion amongst you and before your faces not fearing your scorns and rebukes. And for proof hereof, not one man (as Daniel in Babel) hath been taken in prayer, but very many ●f us have been apprehended sundry times, when we were praying and excercising in the word of God; and from our public meetings have been carried to your loathsome gaoles and prisons, and there detained many a day, till some were car●ed out upon the Bear unto their graves, some carried to the tree and executed. Which (to use your own words) had been sufficient to have driven you into deeper and better considerations, had you not been incurable; and it is to be hoped that the sight hereof, hath done good on some of you.  
3. Thirdly they endeavoured (you, say) to heal them by their prayers, praying continually and desiring God to heal them. Thus also have we endeavoured to heal you always mentioning you in our prayers, that God would vouchsafe yo● mercy: and this we profess and promise to do for you still, (howsoever you reward us for it,) so long as we live on earth.  
Thus have we dealt with you, according to all the duties that yourself have showed both from the jews practice. and from your own. For whereas you allege 
a pag. 44.  a fourth thing that yourselves have done, namely, by devising and enacting good and wholesome laws against their errors, superstitions, impieties &c. seeing this cannot be done by subjects or private men, but only where a common weal and magistracy is established; and so neither was nor could be done by the jews in Babel, nor by us in Engl: I suppose you will not impute this as want to Duty unto us, which if we had attempted to do, might justly have been esteemed rebellion in us, and so our sufferings should have been as malefactors.  
Whereas then we have used all lawful means to cure you that we could, as yourself have laid them down before us- I hope you will be satisfied, or if not, yet any indifferent reader will think you are sufficiently answered.  
THe 4. and last demand is, 
4. Questions  If they Will needs leave our church whether will they go? To leave one thing for another no better, is silly: but for a ●orse ●s folly and madness. etc.  
I answer, We have left Babylon, for to come unto Zion: we forsook your confused assemblies which consist of all sorts of people and an unlawful mixture with the profane and wicked that we might have communion with the people of the Lord, 
Answer.  that willingly and gladly profess to believe the gospel and walk in it.  
Now where you urge us to join to some other church in other countries. first you pass the bounds of your text, from whence you can gather no such doctrine; for the jews forsaking Babel, joined not to any other nation or church than their own. Secondly, it is also contrary to your own practice, who when you first left Popery in K. Edward's days and Q. Eliz. joined not yourselves to any foreign church; but one to another among yourselves. And where you tell us of the approbation of other churches, and 
b pag. 3●,  quote their Harmony of Confessions; I answer, that book was set out long after your separation from Rome, and communion among yourselves: besides also how far they approve of you, is before in this treatise considered of Pag. 10.  
Thirdly we could not join to any of those foreign churches, because We understood not their languages nor they ours, and therefore unless we would have builded a new Babel, with strange tongues, we must join into communion among ourselves.  
Thus have I answered your 4. demands: and for your further satisfaction, if it may be, will yet give you a view of your own dealings with us, and the Babylonians dealing with the jews of old, as they are collected by yourself in you sermoon. They of Babel objected (as you 
a in you sermon, p. 17.  say) that their own religion was general and universal over the world, and the jews, but in a corner: and again 
b pag. 18.  they say Look into the world at this day, and see if any nation of all that came from all the ● son's of N●ah be of your religion: all that came of Cham are of ours: all that came of japhet are of ours, and all that came of Sem, but only yourselves. Yourself 
c pag, 32,  say unto us, in these like words, Look over all Christendom, and you shall not find a Church that condemneth ours, or any that is not of our religion etc. the churches of the Low countries, are of o●r confession, the Ch: of France, the church of Geneva, the church of Scotland, the Cantons of Switzerland. the states and Princes of Germany, they are all of our confession. Whither then will you go but unto your corners and conventicles etc. The like things are objected to us also by other of your ministers, as before in this treatise may be seen pag. 9 The Babylonians 
d Sermon, p 17.  are by you feigned to ha●e said unto Israel, Doth not our religion prosper and flourish, and is not yours condemned by the consent of all the world? Your ministerse say for England against us, 
d supra. p. 19 Consider. 7.  God hath witnessed his love and approbation to our church by many vectories and deliverances, long continuance of the Gospel, prayers, heard etc. And the Churches and godly learned persons that ever heard of your separation did not approve of it. 
e supra. pag 19 Consid. 6.  See also Mr Bernard's book pag. 33.  
You (
f. Your Ser. pag. 17,  said the babylonians to Israel) for holding your religion are justly overthrown and conquered by u● ' Mr Penry, Barrow and Greenwood 
g Supra, p. 23 Consid. 2.  say your ministers to us) were hanged, Mr johnsons' and the rest banished, by Christian magistrates professing and maintaining the Gospel of Christ. Alas poor men (said the Babylonians) for one learned rabbin that your have, have not we twenty? are not the Chaldeans the famoust learned men in the world? Of us your ministers say, 
h Your servant p. 18.  setting aside one or two at most, there is never a minister amongst th●m th●t understandeth the sum of religion and grounds of the Catechism: and further they understand not any tongue save only English & where then is their knowledge. again an 
i Mr Zions. sermon on Psa. 120. Supra, pag. 19 Consid. 7.  other up braydeth us by the preaching disputing and printing of many excellent works and volumes published of all sorts (by the ministers of England): which none of us is any thing have ever yet attained.  
The Babylonians k said to Israel, During the time that you have had your Kings and Priests, show one nation by you converted, or one that came and joined with you of all that time.  
Hardly (say your ministers to us) can you show any one person converted by your ministry, from papistry atheism or other open wickedness; as by God's blessing multitudes have been by ours.  
Thus we see how you and your ministers imitate Bab●l, as if they had been set to scool by Nebuchadnezar, 
n Dan. 1.4  to get 
l Your servant pag. 19 Supra. pag. 30. Consid. 8.  the learning and tongue of the Chaldeans; 
o pag. 20.  wherein how they have profited, let the reader judge; as also whither we may not apply against you, your own words, that you please yourselves in such like carnal arguments and fleshly conceits, a● papist in their popery, and other profane men in their carnality, did heretofore, and do at this day.  
Of these things as I have laboured to give you notice; so I desire God to give you repentance, and to heal all your deadly wounds: lest that come upon you which is foretold by the Prophet, 
a Ier 51: 2●  I will render unto Babel, and to all the inhabitants of the Chaldeans, all their evil that they have done in Zion; in your sight, saith the Lord.  
My people go out of the midds of her; and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce wrath of the Lord.  jer. 51.45. 
Go out of her my people, that ye be not partakers in her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues,  Reu. 18.4. 
FINIS.