AN UNTAUGHT TEACHER Witnessed against.  
OR, The old Bottles mouth opened, It's Wine poured forth, drunk of Drunkards, denied of them who have tasted of the new.  
That is to say, the unsound, unseasoned, unsavoury Doctrines, and opinions of Matthew Caffyn, Baptist-Teacher laid open, who in the County of Sussex, is cried up to be as their Battle Axe, and Weapon of War, who as Jannes and Jambres rides aloft, and bestirs himself with the Magic Rod of his lies, slanders, aspersions, and unsound Doctrines, labours to strengthen the hands of carnal professors, and to keep the beloved of God in bondage: for whose redemption the Lord is risen, and is going forth in majesty, and great glory, and will triumph over all who have triumphed.  
Which Doctrines, and unsavoury speeches were received from his own mouth, part of them at a meeting of the people called Quakers, at Crowley in Sussex, others thereof at his own house near South-water, before me and John Slay, upon the fifth day of the seventh month, 1655.  
No Weapon that is form against thee shall prosper, every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgement, thou shalt condemn: this is the Heritage of the Servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord, Isa. 54.17.  Tho: Lawson. John Slee. 
LONDON, Printed for Giles Calvert, at the Black-spread-Eagle, at the West end of Paul's, 1655.   

AN Untaught toungless Teacher laid open.  
The unsound Doctrines of M. C. B. T. witnessed against.  
1. HE said several times to us, that he knew not what the tongue of the learned was, being asked what it was.  
I answer here out of thy own mouth, thy shame and nakedness is laid open, and to every wise man whose eye is in his head: art thou made manifest to be the lying mouth, which Jeremiah, who had the tongue of the learned witnessed against, who bore witness from the mouth of the Lord against such as run; and were not sent of the Lord, so did not profit the people at all, Jer. 23.32. here thou art, thy own mouth hath declared it, who is gone forth, calls the self a teacher, yet confesses thou knows not what thy tongue of the learned is. Isay had the tongue of the learned given him to minister a word in season to the weary, Isay 50.4. he did not minister till he had received the tongue of the learned; for thereby he knew what to minister as he saith; but thou takes upon thee to minister before thou receive the tongue of the learned or know what it is: never did any of the holy men of God minister, till they received the tongue of the learned; but thou in thy own will art run unsent, confessing thou knows not what it is, stop thy mouth thou liar, thou evil Beast, who runs up and down pushing at the Ministers of the everlasting Gospel with thy horns, such Paul called evil Beasts, liars, and slow bellies, Titus 1.10, 11. who run and were not sent, as thou dost, who yet knows not what the tongue of the learned is, who subverts whole houses, all that flock after thee, taking upon thee to teach others, and art untaught thyself, only hast treasured up the letter in thy corrupt mind, and ministers it forth to others, as thou imagines of it, so steals the word from others, as the false Prophets did, which Jeremiah cried against, Jer. 23.30. and the Lord is against thee, as he was against them, who stole words one from another, as thou hast stolen the words of the Prophets, Christ and his Apostles, and treasures them up in thy corrupt mind; but knows not the tongue of the learned, as thy forefathers did not, who stole the word from their Neighbours: so be ashamed of thy Ministry.  
2. He said, he ministted from the word of truth, otherwise called the Scripture, through the assistance of the spirit of God.  
I answer, to say that the word of truth is called the Sctipture, or that the Scripture is called the word of truth, that is a lie: search the Scripture, and therein show it me, where the Scripture is called the word of truth, thy ignorance of the word of truth, here appears, as of the tongue of the learned, 2 Tim. 2.15. Tymothy rightly divided the word of truth, but he came not by the will of man, and he was a Minister of the spirit, and not of the letter; and James he said, Of his own will begat he us, by the word of truth, James 1.18. is this the Scripture? is it the Scripture by which God works, reforms, changes, sanctifies, and begets again? or is it not the incorruptible seed, which is the word of God, the word of truth, which lives and endures for ever, 1 Pet. 1.23, 24, 25. doth the Scripture live, doth it endure for ever, is it the incorruptible seed? doth the Father work, and beget a new by it, or by his Son, who is the way, the truth and the life; now thou may say, we deny the Scripture, because we bow not to thy fancies & opinions; but the Scripture we own to be a true declaration, Luke 1.1. testifying of him, who from the womb of love is given, to bruise the Serpent's head, in whom, and by whom God changes, reforms, converts, sanctifies, justifies, and begets anew, John 5.39, 40. this is the word of truth, of it the Scripture testifies.  
3. And he said he ministered from the Scripture, through the assistance of the spirit of God.  
I answer, the blind may lead the blind, and deceive the blind; but the seeing deny all blind guides, such as thou art, who saith, thou ministers from the letter: here thou art shut out from all the holy men of God, who were Ministers of the spirit, and not of the letter, as Paul was, 2 Cor. 3.6. but thou art a Minister of the letter, and not of the spirit, as thou makes it appear, who confesses thou knows not what the tongue of the learned is, and holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the holy Ghost. 2 Pet. 1.21.  
4. And thou tells of the assistance of the spirit. I answer, for shame give over, and lay aside thy covers and pretences, what? tell of the spirit, & could not tell me what the Cross of Christ is: what? art thou so impudent, and shameless, as to tell of the assistance of the spirit, and yet acknowledges, thou knows not what is the tongue of the learned? let the wise in heart judge, and the least in the knowledge of God consider, if thou be not in confusion, one of Babel's bvilders, which God is coming to throw down, and thy pretence of the spirit will not hid thee, who ministers the letter in the dead mind, and keeps in death, such as follow thee and search the Scripture, and own thy example: the false Prophets in the days of Jeremiah, who had not the tongue of the learned, had nothing from the mouth of the Lord, but got the words of the true Prophets, and did pretend the spirit, and did use their tongues, saying, the Lord saith, when as they had nothing but the letter, when as he had not spoken to them, such the Lord was against, Jer. 23.30.31, 32. this is thy example, own it; shuffle thyself from among these dreamers, if thou can, who knows not the Cross of Christ, nor the tongue of the learned, and hast got the words of the holy men of God, into thy vain, wily, shifty, peevish, subtle, crafty, and untoward mind, and there treasures them up, and ministers them forth and uses thy tongue, and tells of the assistance of the spirit.  
5. He said, the means that leads to salvation, is without man, that is not dwelling in his mortal body.  
I answer, for all thy profession thou art got no further than the Pope, who talks of a Christ without, means of salvation without, as thou dost; but thou, whose Religion and Kingdom is in words, and in Lip-talk thou knows not, neither what is the means that leads to salvation nor where the means is, and thou art wallowing in filth, and in the pollutions of the world, so knows not the word of salvation, nor where it is: hast thou not read in the Scripture, that to them that are saved the preaching of the Cross is the power of God, 1 Cor. 1.18. if thou knew this Cross, what it is, where it is, what its operation is, what it takes hold on, what ground it strikes at, and what it works out, and what it lets in: if this thou knew, thou would not dream, and imagine as thou dost. Christ is the light of the world, and lighteth every man that cometh into the world, and from him light shines in darkness; but darkness comprehends it not, John 1.5.9. and this light is within, and shows thee thy evil deeds, and the pollutions thou lives in, which if thou loved it, that would lead thee to him that gave it, even to Christ, who hath given to every man a measure according to his ability, which measure is in man, and shows all wicked thoughts, purposes and intentions, that arise out of the heart of man; and who loves it, it leads to him, who gave it out of evil to him alone, who is the head of the Church, the Saviour of the body, in whom alone is salvation, and not in any other name under Heaven: this is the cornerstone, who hath given a light, a measure to every man that comes into the world, John 1.9. Acts 4.10, 11, 12. t● is stone thou sets at naught, who art a foolish builder, seeking a way to salvation without thee, so art out of the Doctrine of Christ, who said, go not forth, when men cry, lo here, lo there, Mat. 24. and grace in measure hath appeared unto all men, which brings salvation, Tit. 2.11, 12. this grace in measure is in all men, showing evil, as evil is intended in thy mind; and him who loves it, it teaches him to deny ungodliness, so brings to salvation; but thou, and all who live in ungodliness, and worldly lusts, turns it into 〈…〉, so are of old ordained to condemnation, Judas 4. 〈◊〉 that which may be known of God is manifest in man, Rom. 1.19. it is in man, that shows him evil, and who love and obey it, it leads out of evil, and guides such into the knowledge of God, to witness the salvation of God; and from this thou art gone: so in thy corrupt mind art pleading for means without, to lead to salvation: The Serpent's meat is dust, and for, his meat he wrangles and pleads; but the way of God is a way of holiness, which no unclean person, no Lion, no ravenous Beast walks in, Isay 35.8.9. but all unclean persons, and ravenous Beasts can conform unto, and imitate the practices of them who gave out the Scripture, who were the ransomed of the Lord, as thou dost, and plead for that in which thou mayst live at ease: so you deny Christ, who hath given to every one a measure to lead to him who gives it; and the Scripture in its place we own, which testifies of Christ, Jo: 5.39.40. but to set it in the room of Christ, we must not; but are witnesses against you, who deny him, and set the Scripture in his place.  
6. He said, God is one thing, and his glory another thing, as saith he, my hand is one thing, and this book in my hand, is another thing.  
I answer, silence dreamer, who would divide God, and his glory; and from God, and his glory thou art separated, and God, and his glory thy eye must not see, but destruction, who art an enemy to the Cross of Christ, and thy mind is in earthly things; tell of God, and his glory, and live in the pollutions of the world, when as no unclean thing dwells with him; and it is Virgins that love him, and all thy corrupt reasonings, comparisons, and arguings of God, and his glory, and for condemnation, and that mind which calls God one thing, and his glory another thing, is accursed, are from God, and his glory thou art accursed, who would divide God, and his glory asunder.  
7. He said the Scripture hath in it, the mind of God revealed, so is a rule to guide men to Christ.  
I answer, holy men of God, to them, and in them, was the mind of God revealed, by the Spirit, before the Scripture was written, and his mind not any one comes unto, but in whom the Spirit of God arises, and rules: as thou hast the Scripture, which declares of the mind of God, but his mind thou hast not, but minds earthly things: saith Paul, we have the mind of Christ, 1 Cor. 2.16. and Phil. 2.5. let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus: none have the mind of Christ, but them in whom Christ dwells, though they may have the Scripture, a declaration of his mind, but, conforming to the practices of the holy men of God, in whom the mind of God was, in the will of man, this lets not in the mind of God: but the cross, which shows the carnal mind, which professes the Scripture, and crucifies the carnal mind, the same lets in the nature, and the mind of Christ; the Jews had the Scripture, and covered themselves therewith, but had not the mind of God, but persecuted him, whom the Father sent, of whom the Father bears witness.  
And thou sayest the Scripture is a rule to guide men to Christ, when as Christ himself said, that none could come to him, but as the Father drew him, and every man that heard, and learned of the Father, came to him, John 6.44.45. Here thy mind is contrary to the mind of Christ, Christ said, it is his Father that draws to him, and thou says it is the Scripture: herein thou art Antichrist, opposing Christ, and his doctrine, and here thou sets the Scripture in the seat of God, saying the Scripture is a rule to guide to Christ, when as the Scripture saith, none comes to Christ except the Father draw him: this, and such like is the mist, that thou keeps people in darkness withal, but now thou art seen.  
8. Again Matthew Caffyn said, that the Scripture doth so far reveal God, and Christ to a Creature, as that he walking up to its revelation, to his lives end, with a single heart, shall be eternally saved.  
I answer, let all who know any thing of God judge, if thou do not herein shut out thyself, both from the knowledge of the Father, and the Son, so art a heathen, not knowing God, Math. 11.27. no man knows the Son, but the Father, neither knows any man the Father, but the Son, and he to whom the Son reveals him: herethou art Antichrist, pulling the Crown from off his head, and giving it to the Scripture, saying the Scripture reveals God, and Christ, &c: when as the Scripture saith, the Son reveals the Father: here thou wrists the Scripture, out of its place, which doth but testify of Christ, John 5.39.40. and sets it in the room of Christ, 1 Cor. 2.10. God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit, for the Spirit searches all things, yea the deep things of God; and thou sayest, the Scripture reveals: here thou sets the Scripture, in the room of the Spirit, Gal. 1.15.16. Paul said, God revealed his Son in him, so he preached him among the heathen: Paul said, God reveals his Son, and thou says the Scripture reveals him, herein thou hast set the Scripture in the room of God, saying the Scripture reveals the Son, when as the Scripture saith, God reveals his Son, herein hast thou set the Scripture in the room of God, Christ and the Spirit: and that which may be known of God is manifest in man, for God hath showed it unto him, Rom. 1.19. and the Lord reveals his secrets, to his servants, Amos, 3.7. and 1 Jo. 5.12. he that hath the Son hath life, he that hath not the Son hath not life, who only gives an understanding heart, to know him that is true, 1 Jo. 5.20. here without life thou art, and without the knowledge of him that is true, saying the Scripture reveals God, etc. When as the Scripture saith, it is the Son alone that gives an understanding heart, to know him that is true: O liar, see thy folly, and unsound doctrines. The Angel is sounding, and a Star from Heaven is fall'n, unto the earth, who hath the Key of the bottomless pit, the same to open, and smoke arises apace, Rev. 9.1.2. the wise see and consider.  
9 Matthew Caffyn said, that there is so much of God, and Christ, revealed in the Scriptures to men, as, through faith therein, is a sufficient means of salvation.  
I answer, what hast thou to do, to tell of salvation, whose mouth is full of lies, and under whose lips doth the poison of asps appear, and for condemnation thou art, who denies the Father, Son, and Spirit, and sets the Scripture in the place thereof, pours forth heresies, corrupt doctrines, and denies him, whom we witness to be able to save to the utmost, such as come to him, Heb. 7.25. this is the stone, which such unskilful bvilders as thou denies, and sets the Scripture in his place, in whom alone is salvation, Acts 4.10.11.12: but him thou knows not, so lives in vain jangling, and the sufficient means which thou speaks on, hath not saved thee, and thou that would set up any thing in the room of Christ, in whom alone is salvation, or in thy devilish reason, would set up any thing with Christ, to add to his sufficiency to save man, him thou knows not, but art for condemnation, with the light, which shows the sin, and evil, which thou acts contrary to.  
10. Matthew Caffyn said, no man hath eternal life now in him as possessing it, but a promise of it, 1 Joh. 2.25.  
I answer, thou art turned from the light, wherewith Christ hath enlightened thee, which guides all that love it, up to life, so the earth is seated in thee, where the beast, and false Prophet lodges, and the promise, which to thee is promised, is the lake of fire, burning with brimstone, Rev. 19.21. that is the promise to the beast, and false Prophet, and he is the beast, who is out of the truth, and whether thou be out of the truth, yea, or nay, let thy lying fables witness, and he is the false Prophet, who runs, but is not sent of the Lord, and whether thou be sent of the Lord, yea, or nay, let thy lies, thy own words witness who hast run so long, and yet confesses, thou knows not what the tongue of the learned is, and thou that lives contrary to the light, knows not what they come to enjoy, and possess, who obey the light, which comes from Christ, and leads to him, who is eternal life, 1 Jo. 4.3. every Spirit that confesses not, that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is not of God, and this is that Spirit of Antichrist, whereof you have heard, that it should come, and even now already is it in the world, but thou may say, thou knows, and confesses he came in the flesh, 1655, years since: that we know, and the Pope confesses Christ as near him as thou, but thou art Antichrist, who dost not know him ruling in thy mortal body, this they witnessed to whom these words were spoken, they were Children and had overcome them, and were of God, 1 Jo. 4.4. this they knew not by talking of him without them, but by possessing him in them, who is greater than he that is in the world, even Jesus, who is eternal life, 1 Io. 4.4. Io. 5.24. some had everlasting life, some were passed from death to life, 2 Cor. 4.10.11. Paul spoke of the life of Jesus being manifest in the mortal body, and the life of Jesus is eternal, and 1 Io. 5.11, 12, 13, 20. saith john this is the record, that God hath given to us, eternal life, etc. and these things have I written, etc. that ye may know you have eternal life, and they were in the true God, and eternal life: how ignorant art thou of the letter, and yet dare call thyself a Minister of Christ, and 1 Io. 4. he that confesses, that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God, and he that dwells in God, dwells in eternal life, God is eternal life, Io. 6.54.  
11. Matthew Caffyn said, that no man while he is upon earth comes to the end of faith.  
I answer, thou art exercising thyself in things that be too high for thee, why art thou speaking of the end of faith, who hast not faith as a grain of musterdseed, which removes mountains? The end of faith is the salvation of the soul, 1 Pet. 1.9. which the Apostle spoke of What dost thou press after? thou wilt say, after the salvation of the soul. What, and if any come to enjoy that, which thou presses after, wilt thou envy them, or deny the goodness of God towards them, Math. 1.21. Christ was given to save from sin, Paul and those he speaks of, were already saved, 2 Tim. 1.9. Headsman 7.25. he is able to save to the uttermost: the engrafted word is able to save the soul; james, 1.21. this is denied of thee, who lives in pollutions, and in the nature of the world: the light who owns, which comes from Chfist, it lets man see a necessity of a Saviour to save him from sin, and by little, and little begets faith in him, as that from sin, he shall be saved: now abiding the end of faith is witnessed, that is possessed, which was believed to be enjoyed, so is Christ, the author, and finisher of faith: doth this beget carelessness, or bring forth iniquity, no, who live in iniquity, salvation, witness not, but the same that saves from sin, keeps out of sin, all who abide in it, 1 joh. 3.6. but what is this to thee, who art one of the foolish women, that sews pillows to all Arm holes, and slays the souls, that should not die; and saves the soul's alive, that should not live, by thy lies, Ezek. 13.18.19.  
12. He said, that that Christ that was crucified at Jerusalem, and role flesh and bones, etc. is not really in any man upon earth, but his spirit is.  
I answer, no other Christ we own but him, who witnessed a good confession before Pontius Pilate, and thou that knows not that he is in thee, art a Reprobate, 2 Cor. 13.5: and the same Paul who said Christ is in you, except you be Reprobates, the same said, Christ lives in me, Gal. 2.20. Now if thou had been in the days of Paul, who said, Christ lived in him, would thou have told him, that Christ did not, it was his spirit; or would thou have told him that Christ did not really live in him, or wilt thou set Christ in one place, & his spirit in another, who is Emanuel, God with us, Mat. 1.23. and saith Christ, I in them, and thou in me, Jo: 17.23.26. Now wi●t thou oppose Christ, and say, he is not really in them: who is it here that denies Christ? who is it that wrists the Scriptures? and now thou art a liar, who saith, Christ is not really in any man upon earth, Christ saith otherwise, whether must Christ or thou be believed? He saith, At that day ye shall know, that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you, Jo: 14.20. and he that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, dwells in me, and I in him; but a wiser than thou may stumble at this, John 6.56. and Christ in you the hope of glory, Col. 1.27. Now this, thou that stumbles at, is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, Christ is a stumbling stone.  
13. He said the Scripture is the word  
I answer, that is another lie, and the Scripture is a witness against thee, it saith, God is the word, and the word became flesh, and dwelled amongst the Saints, John 1.1.14. and Rev. 19.13. his name is called the word of God Rev. 19.13. Now the Scripture is a true Declaration, John 5.39.40. Luke 1.1.  
14. He said the Scripture was the word of Faith.  
I answer, that is another lie, and here thou denies Christ, who was before the World was, or the Scripture was, or Heresy, Schism, Antichrist, or false Prophet was. Heb. 12.2. who is the Author and finisher of faith. Now thou says the Scripture is the word of faith: now then, how came Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph: how came these to faith, and the rest who were before the letter was? here thou makes it manifest, thou art faithless, not knowing the word of faith, but puts the letter in its room, and Rom. 10.8. Paul, who was a Minister of the word of faith, he was not a Minister of the letter, but of the spirit, 2 Cor. 3.6. but that ear that hears the word of Faith, thou knows not opened; but the dead mind bears rule in thee: so thou sets the Scripture in the room of him, who is the Author and finisher of Faith, whose coming is as the morning, who opens the blind eye, and unstops the deaf ear, Isa. 35.5.  
15. He said the Scripture was the truth.  
I answer, here thou wrists the Scripture out of its place, and sets it in the room of Christ, who saith he is the truth, john 14.6. Now Christ saith, he is the truth, and thou sayest, the Scripture is the truth: whether is the liar, a liar thou art: the truth sets free, john 8.32. the Scripture doth not: truth sanctifies, john 17.17.19. the Scripture doth not; but thou may be ready to slander me, because I say not Amen to thy lies, and say I deny the Scripture, which I do not; for it I own to be a true Declaration, testifying of Christ, who is the truth. john 5.39.40. Luke 1.1.  
16. He said the Scripture did lead into the truth.  
I answer, that is another lie, and the Scripture witnesses against thee, which saith, the spirit of truth leads into all truth. John 16.13. and 1 John 2.20. ye have an unction from the holy one, and ye know all things, and that by the virtue of the unction in them, and not the leading of the letter without them: so the Scripture testifies of that which leads into all truth, but is not the thing leading into all truth.  
17. He said, the Scripture led into the knowledge of God, and did teach man the knowledge of God.  
I answer, that is another lie, and the key of knowledge thou here denies, so thou art brutish in thy knowledge, Jer. 10.14. Thou says the Scripture leads into the knowledge of God, and teaches the knowledge of God: here thou denies the Son, and sets the Scripture in his place. Mat. 11.27. No man knows the Father but the Son, and he to whom the Son reveals him; and thou sayest, the Scripture teaches the knowledge of God. Rom. 1.19. what may be known of God is manifest in man: now thou says, it is the Scripture without that teaches the knowledge of God; it is the spirit that discerns God, who is a spirit, and makes known spiritual things. 1 Cor. 2.14. Isay 28.9. it is God that teaches knowledge, John 14.26. The comforter shall teach you all things. Luke 1.76.77. the Child Jesus, Emanuel God with us, he gives the knowledge of salvation. Now here thou sets the Scripture in the room of Christ, who teaches the knowledge of his Father, and says, the Scripture teaches man the knowledge of God: here another lie is found in thy mouth, and the key of knowledge thou casts from thee, who disobeys the light, which shows the sin and evil; and another lie is put into thy hand even by the Angel of the bottomless-pit, whose name in the Hebrew Tongue is Abaddon, in the Greek Tongue Apollyon, Rev. 9.11. so thou art opening, and screwing; but I say by thy searching thou shalt never find out God; Job 11.7, 8.  
18. He said no man's wisdom upon earth was perfect.  
I answer, Thou art turned from the light, so thy wisdom is from below; and thou and thy Generation, who know not the Cross of Christ but denies it, knows not the wisdom which is from above which is perfect in the Saints, Jam: 3.27. 1 Cor. 1.30. who is of God. Christ is their wisdom, and he is perfect in the least measure: so here thou hast uttered blasphemy: if thou knew it, the Beast that opens his mouth in blasphemy against God, his Tabernacle, and them that dwell in Heaven, into the lake must go, Rev. 13.6.  
19 Matthew Caffyn said, the Scripture was the Touchstone to try spirits withal.  
I answer, That is another lie, the Scripture is not the tryer of spirits, to try the living by the dead, that I deny: the Saints have salt in themselves to savour withal, and their own every where they relish and know; but the contrary they deny: the spirits of the Prophets are subject to the Prophets, 1 Cor. 4.32. and this spirit owns itself over all: this discerned and knew them, who used their tongue, saying, the Lord saith, when as they had nothing but the letter. Jer. 23. discerning of spirits was, and is a gift of the spirit: 1 Cor. 12.10. Now thou says, the Scripture must try spirits. 1 Cor. 2.10. The spirit searches all things, 1 John 2.20. ye have an unction from the holy one, and know all things; and by this unction they discerned Antichrists, Deceivers, false Prophets, Heretics, and deluders, and not by the letter without; and by this spirit did Paul discern such as had the form, but not the power. 2 Tim. 3.5. and I will come shortly saith Paul, and will know not the speech of them that are puffed up, but the power. 1 Cor. 4.19. The day declares every man's work. 1 Cor. 3.11.12, 13. Mal. 3.16, 17, 18. In the day, when the Jewels are making up, and in the day is the discerning between the wicked and the righteous, him that serves God, and him that serves him not; but this is by virtue of the day, and not by the letter without. The sheep know the voice of Christ, but deny to follow a stranger. John 10.4, 5, and this the sheep do, through the virtue of salt in them, and not the letter without them; for a stranger may have the form, and all the Scripture, and there with deceive: yet the sheep have salt to savour withal, & knows him that uses his tongue; and saith, the Lord saith, when he hath nothing but the letter. Jer. 23. and whereas John said, Try the spirits, whether they be of God or no. 1 John 4.1. this he spoke to them that had salt in themselves, where the tryer was born; they were of God and Children, and a greater was in them, than he that was in the world, 1 John 4.4. Thou that says the Scripture is the Touchstone to try spirits withal, tell me this, how may a Minister made by the will of God, be known from a Minister made by the will of man; seeing a Minister made by the will of man may have all the Scripture the form, as well as he that is by the will of God; The Jews had Abraham's words, Moses & the Prophet's words, but they knew not Christ, could not thereby discern his spirit, but said, he was a Samaritan, and had a Devil, John 8, 48. and they knew not what spirit the Apostles were of, but stoned Paul till they thought he had been dead, Acts 14.19. Well may thou stumble at that which tries spirits, who confesses thou knows not what the tongue of the learned is, Ephes. 5.13. All things that are reproved, are made manifest by the light: what ever makes manifest is light, which makes thee manifest, and thy spirit, which is to be reproved, which light leads to the stone with seven eyes, Zac. 3.9. and nothing but this discerns darkness, and that which leads into darkness.  
20. He said the Law without man, is that which convinces man of sin.  
I answer, that is another lie; for Christ is the true light, which lighteth every man that comes into the world, john 1.9. which sight is in man, and he that doth evil hates it: yet it reproves him, and convinces him of sin, and shows him his deeds are evil, who acts evil, john 3.19.20, 21. this is given to the ends of the earth, and leaves them without excuse, who have not the Law without, in that it shows them evil, and sin, which is darkness, Isay 49.6. Rom. 2.14.15, 16. Ephes. 5.13. as many as sin without the Law, shall also perish without Law, Rom. 2.12. and in Rom. 4.15. he saith, where there is no Law, there is no transgression and Rom. 3.20. by the Law is the knowledge of sin: now read these Scriptures, he tells of some that are without the Law: and he saith moreover, that where there is no Law, there is no transgression. So by consequence, these are no sinners, who are without the Law. yet he saith, As many as sin without the Law: So that I say, though they have not a Law without, yet have they so much within, as lets them see evil, and secretly moves to turn from evil, and this leaves them without excuse, Rom. 1.19. And Paul had the Law without, and as touching it was blameless, and was alive in the flesh, and saith he was without the Law: so by the outward the letter, he did not see him elf; but when his eye was opened, which had been blinded, the spiritual Law, than sin appeared, and he died, Rom. 7.9.14.12. verses. and john 16.8. it is the spirit, which convinces the world of sin, which in measure hath appeared to all men, 1 Cor. 12.7. Tit. 2.11, 12. and Isay 42.6. He is given a Covenant to Israel, but a light to the Gentile.  
21. He said, God and Christ was two.  
I answer, that is a lie, and thou gainsays Christ, who said, I and my Father are one, john 10.30. and john 17.11. that they may be one, as we are, and that they may be one, even as we are one, john 17.22. This Doctrine thy forefathers could not bear, even the Jews, who had the Letter, but stumbled at the stumbling-stone, and stoned him, john 10.31. and the rage envy, and bitterness that lodges in thy heart, and the swelling cruel words that from thee have proceeded, sufficiently make known where thou art: let that in thy own conscience witness, thou knows not him, who is one with the Father; but sets the Father in one place, and the Son in another, and changes the glory of the incorruptible God, into an Image made like unto corruptible man, Rom. 1.23. the Virgin's birth thou knows not, which is Emmanuel, God with us. Mat. 1.23.  
22. He said, he shall see God with his eyes, which be carnal, often pointing at them with his fingers, alleging that of job, job 19.25, 26, 27.  
I answ. let all who know God in the least measure judge if thou be one of them, who art changing the glory of the incorruptible God into an Image made like unto corruptible man, who is telling of seeing God, who is a spirit, and invisible, with carnal natural eyes: thou Image-maker, what dost thou imagine God to be like, who art doting, and dreaming of seeing God who is a spirit, with thy carnal eyes: true it is, the old man dreams Dreams, but Sons and Daughters prophesy; and job saw God, while he was in the flesh, but not with fleshly eyes, job 42.5.6. mine eye now seethe thee, said job; but thy right eye must be plucked out, and cast from thee, else not know that eye which sees him, who is invisible. Heb. 11.23.24, 25, 26, 27.  
23. He said, by the person of Christ no man comes to the Father.  
I answer: how long will the Nations be led by such blind guides as this, who saith, by the person of Christ no man comes to the Father, when as Christ said, no man comes to the Father, but by me, John 14.6. herein he denies the true way, so is Antichrist: let all who are simple judge, whether this fellow lead towards God, or from God, who denies Christ to be the way, so is a Thief, and a Robber, who denies the door, so is climbing another way, John 10.1. and Heb. 7.25. he is able to save to the uttermost, such as come to God by him: now thou denies him, and saith, he is not the way: will any be so bewitched, as to run after thee, or such like. O shameless teacher, and without understanding, who art so drunk with the Cup of abomination, as that thou staggers, reels, stumbles, and spews out thy own shame, and denies the Lord, who hath put a price into thy hand; but it, and him thou denies, and no other Way but him we own, who lighteth every man that comes into the world, which thou denies and walks not in, it is a way of holiness, the unclean, the Lion, the Beasts of the Forest walk not in this way; and thou who bears the Image of the earthly, denies him who is the express Image of his Father's person, Heb. 1.3.  
24. He said, Christ was ascended into Heaven, and is now sitting in Heaven, with a body of flesh and blood, with the very same body of flesh and blood, with the which he did eat broiled fish, among his Disciples.  
I answer, thou art an Image-maker, and knows not his body which sets free from the Law, and from the body of sin, Rom, 7.4. and thou who lives in lies, in the Customs and fashions of the world, and in deceitful ways, contrary to that in thy conscience, knows not the body of Christ, so art doting, dreaming, framing, forming, and imagining, and setting up Images, and likenesses in thy sensual wisdom of persons and places, which who know his body, from these things are redeemed, Ephes. 5.23. He is the Saviour of the body, and his body sets free from sin and the Law: if thou have an ear, thou may hear, Ephes. 4.9.10. Now that he ascended, what is it, but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth, and no man ascended into Heaven, but he that came down from Heaven, even the Son of man, which is in Heaven, John 3.13. And flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, 1 Cor. 15.50. yet are we members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones, Ephes. 5.30. Go learn what these things mean; and thou that says, he is in Heaven with a body of flesh and blood, opposes the Apostle, who was an eye witness of his Majesty, who said flesh and blood must not inherit, etc. and said Christ, glorify thou me, O Father, with thine own self, with the glory which I had with thee, before the world was, John 17.5. and Christ's glorious body we own, Phil. 3.21. so deny thee, and thy Images, and thy vultures eye, and the Eggs which thou Cockatrice hatches, and the spider's web, which thou weaves, which thy nakedness cannot cover, Isay 59.5.6. call not this railing; for a name thou must have, according to thy nature, whose lips speak lies, whose tongue mutters perverseness, who trusts in vanity, and pleads not for the truth, but against it, saying, thou wilt root the Ministers of the truth, out of these parts, the marks of them thou bears, that Isa, spoke of Isa. 59.1, 2.3, 4, 5, 6.  
25. Matthew Caffyn said, God did not dwell in any creature, but his Spirit did.  
I answer, here thou would make good a liar, who hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them, 2 Cor. 6.16. Ephes. 2.22. they were an habitation of God, through the Spirit: this thou stumbles at, disputes, and cavils against who art a stranger, and a foreigner, and an enemy to the household of God, 1 Cor. 3.16.17. ye are the temple of God, and the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are, Rev. 21.3. the Tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them: and, who are of God, this witness, and witness against thee, and know t●ee to be without God in the world, who imagines God to be one where, and his Spirit, another where, when as God is a Spirit, and the Spirit, joh. 4.24. 2. Cor. 3.17. whosoever confesses in truth, that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God, 1 john, 4.15.  
26. He said, no man while he is upon earth is in the Kingdom, and that the chief of Saints, have but by promise.  
I answer: thou art a bundle of lies, and what hast thou to do to meddle with the Saints, or talk of their inheritance, who art profane Esau, selling thy birthright for the earth who contrary to the light acts, so a child of disobedience art, thy fruits make thee manifest, and with jacob; thou hast no inheritance who said, he was a Minister of the Spirit, he also said, that they were translated into the Kingdom of his dear Son, Col. 1.13. and the Saints were raised up, and set together in heavenly places, in Christ Jesus, Ephes. 2.6. and if any come to know the life of the holy men of God, and bear witness to their conditions, thou spreads thy arms abroad, crying out of blasphemy, heresy, damnable doctrines; so might thou have said of them, who gave out the Scripture, which was given to be fulfilled, not for a heard of swine to feed on: what hast thou to do, to talk of the Saints, who arms thyself with arguments, against such as grow up in the life, which translated them into the Kingdom, so be a witness against thyself, that thou art out of the Kingdom, which is a Kingdom of light, and by the light art found out among the Cockatrices, Night-birds, Cormorants, Bitterns, Owls, Ravens, Dragons, Wildebeasts, Satyrs, Praetors, Scritch-owls: ownthy mates, who art pleading against possessing the Kingdom.  
27. He said no man upon earth sees Christ, he said, he had not seen Christ, and when I asked him, if he had seen God, he cried out of blasphemy.  
I answer, here thou art a witness against thyself, that thou art one of them, who hast eyes, but sees not, Math. 13.15. Moses saw God, Exo. 33.11.23. and death reigns till Moses, so in thee death reigns: so what hast thou to profess? Abraham saw the day of the Son of man, and was glad john 8, 56. and God appeared unto him, and talked with him, Gen. 12.7. Gen. 17.1.2, 3, the Lord appeared unto Isaac, and talks with him, Gen. 26.2. jacob saw God face to face, Gen. 32.30 job saw God, job. 42.5.6. now thou that stumbles at seeing of God, and confesses thou hast not seen Christ, in the steps of Abraham thou art not, nor to his condition come, who saw the day of the Son of man, and was glad, and death reigns in thee, and thou clothes thyself with the Letter, which they spoke forth, who saw God in Christ, if any come to witness the life of them, whose words thou professes, Isay saw God, Isa. 6.5. the Prodigal came to himself, and said to his Father, I have sinned in thy sight, Luke 15. but in the far Country yet thou art, amongst harlots, and riotous livers, and art gone into the field to feed swine, and thyself eats the husks among the swine, and that which would let thee see thyself, and thy Country, and thy companions, and thy food, and the Father of the living, that thou denies, and lives in disobedience to the light, which comes from Christ, so art for condemnation, he that sees the Son sees the Father, Jo. 14.9. but thou art without both, and in fellowship with neither, 1 Cor. 15.8.14.15. Paul was an eye witness of his majesty, Heb. 11.27. John saw him on horseback, sitting on a white horse, and a bow and a Crown was given unto him, and he went forth Conquering, and to Conquer, Rev. 6.2. and such as thee shall his arrows deeply pierce, who says thou art a Minister of Christ, and yet hast not seen him, nor his Father, nor knows not what the tongue of the learned is, so art one that Paul witnessed against, unlearned, and unstable, wresting the Scripture to thy own destruction, and the destruction of other, 2 Pet. 3.16. he must needs be unlearned, who runs to teach others, and himself nor knowing what the tongue of the learned is, Rev. 19.11.12.13. all the Children of the Lord are taught of the Lord, and they see their teacher, which is the Lord, so here thou hast shut out thyself from all the Children of the Lord, who confesses thou hast not seen God nor Christ: all his Children, the Lord teaches, and him they see, and none of them thou art, who confesses thou hast not seen christ, Isa. 54.13.  
28. He said, Adam did not die the same day, he did eat the forbidden fruit, but was in a dying condition, that is growing nearer the time in the which he should be put into an hole in the earth.  
I answer: thou art a liar, for the lake; and would make God a liar, who said, Gen. 2.17. in the day, thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die: now thou sayest he did not die, so would make God a liar, and Gen. 3.6.7.8. when they had eaten thereof; the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they both were naked, and they shown figleaves together, and made them them elves aprons, as thou hast been doing this many years, both for thyself, and for others, and art found a witness against God, and thou thyself ignorant, not knowing the death, which hath passed over all men.  
29. He said, I denied the resurrection.  
I answer: thou art a slanderer, and must have the Portion of the slanderer, for a resurrection I own, both of the just, and unjust, Acts 24.15. The resurrection of the dead I own, both of the just, and unjust, Jo. 5.28.29. the one to life, the other to damnation: but because I said, thou must not see God with thy carnal eyes, and that flesh, and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, 1 Cor. 15.50. therefore thou concludes, I deny the resurrection: thou might as well slander Paul, and say he denied the resurrection, as slander such, who bear witness to his words: but thou says, with what manner of body do the dead arise: thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die, and that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, etc. but God giveth it a body as it pleaseth him; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body, 1 Cor. 15. chapter, and Paul earnestly laboured to come to the resurrection of the dead, Phil. 3.11.  
30. Matthew Caffyn, said he believed no man upon earth did live without the transgression of the Law, yet man might come to have the righteousness of the law fulfiled in him, as Paul said the righteousness of the law, was fulfilled in himself, and others, Rom. 8.4. and yet at the same time, he saw a law in his members, warning against the law of sin, which was in his members, and cried out O wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from the body of this death, Rom. 7.23.24.  
I answer, thou that says, the righteousness of the law may be fulfiled in man, and yet man not freed from the transgression of the law, I say it, it is a lie, and prove thy doctrine if thou can, let all whose eye is open judge between thee and me, whether the righteousness of the law be fulfilled in man, while he lives in the transgression of the law, yea, or nay: this makes it manifest, thou art ignorant of the law, which is spiritual, Rom. 7.14. and it hath power over a man so long as he lives, Rom. 7.1. so that being alive in the flesh, out of that which crucifies the flesh, the spiritual law is transgressed, and here he is not witnessed, who is the end of the law, for righteousness, to every one that believes, Rom. 10.4. And said Paul, who knew the law, Gal. 3.19. wherefore then serves the law, it was added because of trasgressions, till the seed should come, to whom the promise was made, so if thou had an ear, thou might hear: the law was added because of transgression, and is also added, while transgression stands: the law hath its work, which ministration is glorious in its time: and the end of the law is not come, who was made under the law, to fulfil the law, so through the law, to redeem from the law: he is not come, while sin and transgression is lived in, even he, that comes by water, and blood, not by water only, but by water, and blood, 1 Joh. 5.6. the law is added, because of transgressions, till the seed come, who bruises the Serpent's head, Gen. 3.15. and takes upon him the seed of Abraham, and not the nature of Angels, Heb. 2.16. this is he, who in taking upon him the seed of Abraham, finishers transgression, because of which the law was added, and makes an end of sin, and makes reconciliation for iniquity, and brings in everlasting righteousness, and seals up the vision, and prophecy, here the most holy is anointed, Dan. 9 if thou knew the seed, to which the promise is, the end of vision, or prophecy, this thou would receive, but thou that tells of the righteousness of the law, being fulfilled in man, and yet man live in the transgression of the law, thou know not what thou spaks, nor whereof thou affirms: for he himself saith, that he was made free, from the law of sin, and death, before he tell of the righteousness of the law being fulfilled in him, Rom. 8.1.2.3.4, and saith Paul, I through the law (which law hath power over a man so long as he lives) and dead to the Law, that I might live unto God, Gal. 2.19. but neither Law nor Gospel thou knows, who stumbles at seeing God, and cries out blasphemy, when as Moses, who received the perfect Law from God, which is according to that of God, in every one's conscience, he saw God, and till Moses, death reigns; there thou art.  
And in as much as thou said, that Paul said, the righteousness of the Law was fulfilled in him, and yet at the same time, he was carnal, sold under sin, and found a Law in his Members, warring against the Law of his mind, leading him captive into sin, and was a wretched man, crying out, who should deliver him from the body of death, Rom. 7.  
I answer, here another lie is found in thy mouth, for he did not say, the righteousness of the Law, was fulfilled in him till the Law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus, had made him free from the Law of sin and death, Rom. 8.1.2, 3, 4, and he could not both be carnal, led captive, and have the body of death standing in him, and yet be free from the body of sin and death, all at one time: this can in no wise be, as thou would persuade people; but whereas he speaks of himself, being carnal, sold under sin, and led captive, and the body of death not destroyed, Rom. 7. here he declares unto them, how it was with him, in the time of his warfare, Rom. 7.5. when we were in the flesh, saith he, than it was so and so, then carnal; but the Law spiritual, then sold under sin, than led captive, than a wretched man, than not delivered from the body of sin, in the time of the Law, it being weak, through the flesh: now here he declares to them, what he had passed through, and how it had been with him; but at that time, he saith he was delivered from the Law, Rom. 7.6. so likewise from sin, the Law being added because of transgressions; and he at that time, when he written unto the Romans an Epistle, which afterwards was turned into Chapter, and verse, by Tubal-Cain, the cunning Artificer, and Craft-man, for the benefit of the Clergy: when this Epistle he written, he witnessed the power of God unto salvation, Rom. 1.6. and the inward Jew, and circumcision inwardly, Rom. 2.28, 29. and that he was justified, and had peace with God, Rom. 5.1. and that the old man was crucified, Rom. 6.6. and that they were not under the Law, but under grace, which Law is because of transgressions, Rom. 6.15. and that they were dead to the Law, by the body of Christ, Rom. 7.4. and none is dead to the Law, but who is dead to sin, his body sets none free from the Law, but whom it sets free from sin, and he saith, he and they were delivered from the Law, Rom. 7.6. so from sin, because of which the Law is added, and he saith, he was set free from sin, and the righteousness of the Law was fulfilled in him, Rom. 8.1.2, 3, 4. now that he could witness these glorious conditions, and growth in Christ Jesus, and yet be carnal, and fold under sin, and led captive, and groan under the body of death, that I deny; but it is the Doctrine of Matthew Caffyn, who is a Baptist-Teacher, so I leave it with him, or any that own him, the same to prove, and in Rom. 7.25. Paul said, so then— implying a condition, and disposition which he had passed through, than it was so, and so; and in the next verse he saith, But now— Rom. 8.1. therein he declares his present condition, which was that he was set free from the Law of sin and death, and the righteousness of the Law was fulfilled in him, Rom. 8.1.2, 3, 4.  

Rom. 7.25. So than Who is not blind may see.  
Rom. 8.1.2. But now Who hath an ear, may hear.   
To the 7th Chapter of Paul's Epistle to the Romans, do all unsavoury Professors, Priests, and people fly; and unto it run, as unto a Bulwark, for a cover to continue in sin and corr●ption, while they remain upon earth which will stand them in no stead: so two Propositions shall I lay down; and if the Devil in any profession, or Matthew Caffyn, be offended at what I have spoken concerning that Chapter, which all Professions take hold on, for a shelter for their iniquity, let them appear in writing, that truth may come to light, and lies be searched out, and not backbite, grumble, and grudge, and run up and down slandering and railing, and crying out that we hold forth damnable Doctrines, and Heresies. But do not so, that is not honest, that is the nature of Night-birds, and Screech-owls, who scratch in the dark: so Matthew Caffyn, prove thy Doctrines, else throw down thy Crowns, and own that in thy Conscience, which shows thee thy enmity against the truth: the Lord is taking unto himself him great power, even the Almighty, who was, is, and is to come, to reign over all, and the Nations are angry, and combine together against the Lord, and against his anointed: yet upon the holy hill of Zion, will he his Sonset: the hill of God, is as the hill of Bashan, an high hill: this is the hill in which God delights to dwell; yea, in it, he will dwell for ever, and all hills shall tremble before it, even before his hill, who is setting the solitary in families, and bringing out those which are bound in Chains, he is beating the wicked one, out of all his Bulwarks, and fenced walls, and high Towers; and in Israel doth God appoint, for Walls and Bulwarks, even salvation; so make not lies your refuge, and plead not for sin, which is a wall of separation between God and man.  
1. That Paul was not carnal, and sold under sin, nor led captive into sin, nor the body of death undelivered from, (which is made mention of Rom. 7.) when he said, the Law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus, had made him free from the Law of sin and death, Rom. 8.1, 2, 3, 4.  
That at that time, when Paul wrote to the Romans, and spoke of being carnal, and sold under sin, etc. Rom. 7. that he spoke not of his present condition, but how it had been with him formerly, in the time of his warfare, which was then accomplished, and the body of death put off, and he set free from sin, Rom. 8.1.2, 3, 4.  
31. Matthew Caffyn said, I spoke error, when I said, no man did further witness the Scripture fulfilled in him, than he was grown up in that spirit, which gave it forth: the same also I now say, and, prove it to be error, if thou can; but the wise in heart, will not take thy words for a Gospel-proof, who hast uttered forth so many lies, and did give me these words under thy own hand-writing, That the Scripture doth so fare reveal God and Christ to a Creature, as that he walking up to its Revelation, to his lives end, with a single heart, shall be eternally saved. I say thy Ministry teaches not singleness in the one spirit, but thou would have all shroud themselves in thy Form, to their lives end, and in the deceit of the world, and then tells them of being saved: now he to whom the true Ministry, was committed, said, 2 Tim. 1.9. they were saved, Tit. 3.5. Thou would have people wrapped up in thy Form, all their lives, that thou among them may have pre-eminence, and tells them of salvation afterward, when as no unclean thing, must enter into the Kingdom, as the Tree falls, so it lies.  
This have I written, as touching particulars received from M. Caffyn, part in writing, and part from his mouth, and God who is the Judge of all, is my witness herein, that I have not added to what was spoken by him: so be ashamed thou blind guide, and prove thy Doctrines, else be silent, and give over teaching others, who thyself art untaught: mind that in thy conscience, which shows the sin and evil, and let it stop thy mouth: see thy own confusion, glory not in Babylon, a building by thy own fingers, in thy own imaginations: the Kingdom thou art departed from, the measure which shows the evil, thou disobeys; and from men thou art driven, and thy dwelling is amongst the Beasts of the field, and thou art pushing with thy horn and power against the Lambs; and upon the grass thou art feeding: there is thy state, not only seven times, but ever, except the light which shines in thy Conscience, thou own, that by it thou may be led out of darkness, up to Christ, who for that end gave thee a measure to profit withal: doth not a man whose eyes are open, know a beast, by one mark? how many marks doth thou here bear, which God gives his Children victory over: therefore cease thy prating with malicious words, against that which thou knows not, and come out of deceit, and the world's vanities, which thou sticks in, contrary to that in thy conscience: therefore be warned, thou who spreads thyself, as the Bramble-bush, and obey that in thy conscience which shows the sin and evil; for fire is in the bush, though thou be not ware of it: resist not that in thy Conscience, by which God calls thee, and secretly checks thee, that out of the evil of the world, thou may come: God who is a consusuming fire, will awake for his own glory; and his fire, he will kindle, which all thorns, briars, and brambles shall consume: prise the day of thy visitation. A Lover of thy soul.  
Thomas Lawson.   
THE END.