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Can p<\ a w ou ^ C-A^-c. oi;^ p^LjUtJ * 
 
 ^ PROVINCIAL POLITICS. 
 
 1800. 
 
 A SPEECH 
 
 DELIVERED BY 
 
 HON. C. F. FRASER, 
 
 COMMISSIONER OF PUBLIC WORKS, 
 
 iN THE 
 
 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY. 
 
 MARCH 25th, 1890, 
 
 ON 
 
 SEPARATE SCHOOLS 
 
 And the position of the Roman Catholic Electors 
 with the two political parties. 
 
 Copies of this Speech can he had by addressing W. T. R. Prestov^ 
 Secretary Provincial Reform Asao'nation, Toronto, 
 
 PRINTED BY HUNTER, ROSE & CO. 
 
 1890. 
 
 7 
 
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 HON. C. F. FRASER'S 
 
 SPEJilOII 
 
 ON THE 
 
 SEPARATE SCHOOL QUESTION. 
 
 THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY AND THE ROMAN 
 
 CATHOLIC VOTE. 
 
 » ^ » 
 
 The following is a report of the speech delivered on Tuesday 
 evening, March 25 ih, 1890, in the Legislative Assembly, by Hon. 
 C. F. Fraser, Commissioner of Public Works, during the discus- 
 sion on the amendments to the Separate School Act, as proposed 
 by Mr. Meredith and his supporters : 
 
 Hon. Mr. Fraser followed close upon Mr. Meredith, and was 
 received with hearty applause as he rose. Mr. Meredith, he said, 
 had started out all right apparently, but had not gone far before 
 it was manifest that, whatever else his intention was, he was 
 bent on making an appeal to a certain class in this Province which 
 might possibly tide him over to the Governiaent side of the House. 
 Mr. Meredith asked what could be the motives which would in- 
 duce him to take this position. Why, even the page behind him 
 could tell him, it was so self-evident. He (Mr. Fraser) had hoped 
 that Mr. Meredith would confine himself to a discussion of the bills 
 before the House, but he had taken the House very far afield, 
 dealing with the whole question of Separate Schools, and, there- 
 fore, he (Mr. Fraser) would also have to go further afield than he 
 had intended to. It would be necessary, it seemed to him, to clear 
 up a little as he went along. He was not at present going to follow 
 his hon. friend. He was not, for instance, at present at all events, 
 going to discuss what he had to say about the hierarchy of the 
 
4 SEPARATE SCHOOLS. 
 
 Cliurch, nor what he Had especially to say about Archbishop 
 Cleary. His candid opinion was, as between the hon. gentleman 
 and Archbishop Cleary, the latter was able to take care of him- 
 self, and his impression was that the scoring wliich Archbishop 
 Cleary had recently given him accounted for a good deal of the 
 spirit of the attack of the hon. gentleman. (Applause.) Nor was 
 he going to follow him through other matters with which he 
 entertained the House respecting the hierarchy, unless at a later 
 moment he should think it of any consequence so to do. It 
 appeared to him from the London speech of the hon. gentleman, 
 and still more clearly from his speech to-night — because in his 
 London speech he did not go quite so far as he did to-night — 
 together with what the member for Toronto, his fint lieutenant, 
 who occupied a seat beside him on the platform on the occasion 
 of his speech at London, had said during a preceding debate — and 
 together with the speech of the member for Muskoka and the 
 resolutions passed at West Toronto Junction, the Convention at 
 which Mr. Clendenan was nominated only very recently — taking 
 these things all together, it was tolerably clear that they had 
 heard the 
 
 FIRST GUN IN THE CRUSADE 
 
 which was intended to accomplish the abolition of Separate 
 Schools. So they had better see now where they were, what Sepa- 
 rate Schools really meant, what principle was involved in them, 
 how their supporters might or might not be concerned, and what 
 the school law provisions were. The general impression seemed to 
 be that when a man became a supporter of a Public School or o 
 a Separate School, what was meant by that was that he was com- 
 pelled to send his children to a Public or Separate School, as the 
 case might be. He did not read the law as meaning anything of 
 the kind. When they talked of a Public School supporter it 
 meant no more than this, that he was paying a certain amount 
 to the support of a Public School to which he need not send his 
 children at all. As a matter of fact, so far as the law of the Pro- 
 vince of Ontario was concerned every Separate School supporter 
 could, though ho were required to pay taxes to a Public School, 
 still send his children to a Separate School. The public mind 
 must be disabused of the idea that he could not do this, because 
 the public mind was greatly mistaken on that point. There was 
 no law to compel a man to send his child to any particular school, 
 iind there was no such law in any land on this continent, or in 
 any civilised land in the world. All the hon. gentleman would 
 succeed in doing, if he did succeed 
 
 : 
 
SI I'ARATE FCUOOLS. 
 
 IN PISTHOYINO THE lUOIITS AND 
 
 prIvilejGfes now enjoyed by law in respect of Separate Schools 
 would be to compel those of the Roman Catholic religion — just as 
 they were being conipelled across the lin^s — to pay for the sup- 
 port of Public Schools to which they could not conscientiously 
 send their children, and to carry on besides fichoole, which, to all 
 intents and purposes, would be the same as the Separate Schools 
 of to-day. He told the hon. gentleman, with respect to the 
 300,000 people of ihis Province forming its religious minority, 
 who were concerned in this question of Separate Schools from 
 the standpoint of their religion, and to whom it was a matter 
 of conscience — who, when they aided in supporting Separate 
 Schools were but d'ing that which their faith and religious 
 belief required them to do — he told him that should they ever re- 
 peal these provisions, so that there would no longer be a Separate 
 School Act, there was not a single Roman Catholic Separate 
 School that would the day thereafter be closed, and they could 
 not bo closed under the law. Now, he would point out where the 
 cardinal point of the whole school law of this Province was to be 
 found. It was found in a couple of sections of the Piiblic Schools 
 Act. They were usually known as the compulsory sections. Sec- 
 tions 209 and 210 of the Public Schools Act were the only sec- 
 tions under which, by any law of this Province hitherto passed or 
 now in operation, any parent or guardian of a child was compel- 
 led to send the child to school at all. They could take the par- 
 ent's or guardian's rates or taxes, and compel them, whether poor 
 or rich, to pay towards the support of a school, but under those 
 two sections, which formed the 
 
 CORNER-STONE OF THE WHOLE SYSTEM, 
 
 and which directed whether a parent or guardian xnight or might 
 not educate the child, there was nothing to compel him to send 
 the child to any particular school. Section 209 said : — " The par- 
 ent or guardian of every child, not less than seven years nor more 
 than thirteen years of age, is required > ""ause such child to 
 attend a Public School, or any other schooi in which elementary 
 instruction is given, for the period of 100 days in each Public 
 School year, unless t.>»ore be some reasonable excuse for non at- 
 tendance." So that \. -^rent or guardian was not bound by any 
 law that was in exist^iri low to send his child to any pjirticular 
 school, and they could not in this Province enforce any law to 
 compel the parents to do so, because intelligent Protestants would 
 
6 SEPARATE SCHOOLS. 
 
 not, having regard to thoir own proper privileges and liberties as 
 parents, permit the enuetmeDt of such a law. Therefore, it was 
 only under this clause that there was any compulsion, and this 
 clause applied only to children between seven and thirteen years of 
 age, and under it the child might be sent to any school whatsoever 
 wh*re elemental y instruction was given. The next clause pro- 
 ceeded : — " A cliiM shall not be required to attend a Public School 
 if such child is under sufficient elementary instruction in some other 
 manner, of if such child has been prevented attending school by 
 sickness or other unavoidable cause, or if there is no Public 
 School which such child can attend within two miles, measured 
 according to the nearest road from the residence of such child, if 
 under the age of nine, and within three miles if over that age." 
 So, he said a^aln, that when people talked about abolishing Sep- 
 arate Schools, when it was said that a 
 
 CRUSADE WAS TO BE LED BY THE 
 
 hon. member for London looking to that end, he told them that if 
 the day ever came when that decision would be reached by this 
 Legislature, if they ever put the people of the minority in the 
 same positidfh as they found themselves in the State of New York, 
 where, being compelled to pay towards the Public Schools, they 
 at the same time voluntarily, because of their faith, had estab- 
 lished schools of their own — he said to them ahead of time, if 
 ever that time did come, if ever such a law was brought into 
 operation, it would be the stealing — for he could not use any 
 other phrase — from the Roman Catholic minority money for the 
 support of schools to which they could not conscientiously send 
 their children. What else could it be ? Under a compact, as 
 solemn as compact could be mad 3, assented to by the old Province 
 of Upper Canada, first formulated by conference, then ratified by 
 the people, ratified by the Imperial Parliament and the Parlia- 
 ment of Canada, the pledged faith of the whole people of this 
 country was given that the minority should be allowed to retain 
 these Separate Schools, and wliy should they be jeopardised 
 when they had done nothing to deserve the jeopardising of them? 
 What had they done ? he should like to ask the hon. gentleman. 
 There were those who said the pupils were inferior, but where 
 were they inferior, or how 1 In what line of life was it ? I'he 
 Separate Schools of this Province were 50 years old. They 
 had been guaranteed to the minority now by the British 
 North America Act for quite a quarter of a century. He 
 would like to ask wha^ class of the graduates were afraid 
 
SEPARATE SCHOOLS. 7 
 
 to face the majority of their fellowmen in this Province of 
 Ontario ? Ho thought that was the best test of what the sys- 
 tem was doing. They might assert mere theories and say the 
 Separate School teachera had not certificates, but the practical and 
 beneficial fruits of the Separate School system were seen in evo»y 
 walk of life, and, comparing the position of the Separate School 
 minority with that of 25 years ago, their position had distinctly 
 advanced. Take the bar, take the pulpit, take the bench, take 
 the merchant's desk, take any rank or walk of citizenship, and, 
 bearing in mind their proportion and numbers, would not those 
 educated in Separate Schools be found 
 
 TO BE THE EQUALS OF THOSE 
 
 who were presumed to be better educated because they came from 
 Public ? ihools. He did not say they were any better. It was 
 not because they said they were any better that they maintained 
 these schools, but because they believed that their young child- 
 ren growing up should be educated day by day in their religion. 
 What were they doing^ in the United States ? There nearly a 
 million of the Roman Catholic children attended what are called 
 parochial schools, and these were supported out of the pockets of 
 the Roman Catholic ratepayers, who had to pay besides towards 
 supporting the other common or Public Schools of the country. 
 And these parochial schools were increasing, and only recently 
 there had been a more energetic move in the direction of increas- 
 ing them in face of the fact that those who supported them had 
 to pay two rates. Now, in face of this, when they were pledged to 
 this syst^em, when it was doing no harm and educating the pupils 
 just as fairly as the Public School system, when the graduates 
 were in all respects the equals of their fellows from the Public 
 Schools, what pretext could there be for the abolition of the 
 Separate School system unless it was to steal and pilfer from the 
 minority ? There could be no possible end gained, save this, and 
 one had but to glance at what was going on in the United 
 States to-day to find abundant proof for his assertion. There, 
 where they had no Separate School law at all, the Roman 
 Catholics were carrying on their own system of education, and 
 the same thing would occur here. Did they think the Roman 
 Catholic minority were going to be such sneaks, or make of them- 
 selves such palpable cowards as they would be if, under such 
 provocation, they would be found submitting to that which was 
 contrary to their conscience and faith and religion ? Now, so far 
 as the general question was concerned, it was sometimes asked by 
 
9 BKPAltATE SC110<JI^. 
 
 those who claimed to belon*? to the " Etjual Rights " party, "Why 
 should the Roman Catholics have any li^htH which we have 
 not i " He did not read the law as .saying that Protestants could 
 not establisli Separate Schools. He re-id quite the contrary. As 
 a (uattor of fact there were nine 
 
 PROTESTANT S KPAUATE SCHOOLS 
 
 in this province, and, as he road the law, they could be ostab- 
 lished in every city, town and village to-morrow, and esta shed 
 by far more easy methods as tu couLiol, u^ to the giving of ..atice 
 and as to all that concerned the machinery of the..'-cliool.s, than 
 could Roman Catholic Separate Schools. He would quote from 
 the Protestant Separate School Act on this point, because they had 
 heard it stated that there was no such thing as power to establish 
 Protestant Separate Schools except under certain exceptional cir- 
 cumstances. Section 1 of this Act .said : — " Upon the application 
 in writing of five or more heads of families resident in any town- 
 ship, city, town or incorpoi-ated village being Protestants, the 
 Muuici[)al Council of the said township, or the Board of School 
 Trustees of any such city, town or incorporated village, shall 
 authorize the establishment therein of one or more Sejtaiate 
 Schools for Protestants ; and upon the application of tlve or more 
 heads of families resident in any town?)hi|>, city, town or incor- 
 porated village, being colored people, the Council ot such town- 
 ship or tike Board of School Trustees of any such city, town or 
 incorporated village, shall authorize the establishment therein of 
 one or more Separate Schools for colored people, and in every 
 sueh ca.se such Council or Board, as the ca.se may be, shall pre- 
 scribe the limits of the section or sections of such .schools." The 
 hoc. gentleman read on to the Cth and 7th sections without inter- 
 ruption. These two clauses provide : — " In any city or town the 
 persons who make application, according to the provisions of sec- 
 tion 2 of thi.s Act, may have a Separate School in each ward or 
 in two or more wards united, as the said persons may judge ex- 
 pedient." Then the 7th, — " No Protestant Separate School shall 
 be allowed in any school section, except when the teacher of the 
 Public School in such section is a Roman Catholic." Mr. Fraser 
 lemarked that this was the only restriction contained through- 
 out the Act as to tiie general power. 
 
 Mr. Meridith — Hear, hear. 
 
 Mr. Fraser said his hon. friend said "hear, hear," but this 
 restriction only applied to the case of rural school sections, 
 not to the case of cities, towns and villages, and there 
 
SEPARATE SCHOOLS. 
 
 might have bpcn a very good reason in the minds of those 
 framing thi« law why thiire should not be a second Pro- 
 testant Scliool in a rural school section where already there 
 was one taught by a Protestant teacher. Section 8 saitl : — •' In 
 uU cities, town^^.jjincorporftted villages and township Public School 
 sections, in which Separate Schools 'exist, every Protestant or 
 colored person (as the case may be) sending; children to such a 
 school, or supporting the same by subscribing thereto annually 
 an amoimfc oqtial to the sum at which such person, if such Separ- 
 ate Scho;)l did not exist, must have been rated in order to obtain 
 the annual Legislative Public School grant, shall be exempt frotii 
 the payment of all rates imposed for the support of the Public 
 Schocia of such city, town, incorporated village and school section 
 respectively, and of all rates imposed for the purpose of obtain-ing 
 the Public School grant." 
 
 Mr. Meredith — That is a condition al-o. There is no such 
 condition in regard to the Roman Catholic Separate Schools. 
 
 Mr Fraser — No, but this is more liberal. It does not require 
 any notice. I am pointing out that there is no mere technicality 
 put in the way of Protestant Separate School supporters. Mr. 
 Fra.ser re-read the clau.se together with the next succeeding one, 
 which is as follows : — " The exemption from the payment of 
 school rates, as herein provided, shall not extend beyond the per- 
 iod durmg which such persons send children to or subscribe as 
 aforesaid lor the suppoit of such Separate School; nor shall the 
 exemption extend to nchool rates or taxes imposed, or to be im- 
 posed, to pay for school houses, the erection of which was under- 
 taken or entered into before the establishment of such Separate 
 School." The hon. gentleman asked the House to mark that the 
 word " herein," as used here, would show what was meant by the 
 preceding section. So that under this law which related to Pro- 
 testant Separate Schools, there was no necessity for any notice 
 at all, except the original petition, and thereafter any person 
 might become a supporter, not being bound by any particular 
 date, nor any particular rule ; but, so long as he chose to make a 
 contribution, he was exempt from the rate that flowed to the 
 ordinary Public Schools. In quoting the other clauses, he 
 stated that in one respect the Act was less generous, if he 
 might use the term, because once a man became a Roman Catholic 
 Separate School supporter he 
 
 COULD NOT WITHDRAW EXCEPT 
 
 ho had given notice before a certain time in the year 
 of his intention. So that there were on the statute book 
 
10 
 
 SEPAKATE SCHOOLS. 
 
 of the Province provisions more amgle and more liberal for 
 the establishment of Protestant Se[)urate Schools than there 
 were for the establishment of Roman Catholic Separate 
 Schools. It was no answer to his argument that Protestants 
 had not availed themselves of the law. His reference to this 
 statute was mainly for the purpose of showing that those who 
 said Roman Catholics enjoyed a privilege that was not extended 
 to others were entirely mistaken. He could not quite understand 
 why Protestant Separate Schools had not been estabHshed, unless 
 it was that Protestants were a large majority in the Province, and 
 that, controlling the Public Schools as they did, they should be 
 quite content to have them as their system. But there were cases 
 where Protestant Separate Schools had been established. There 
 were nine in the Province of Ontario, where, until two or three 
 years ago, the teacher's right to teach could have been a simple 
 certificate from the Trustees without even the formula of an 
 examination. But suppose there was no such statute as the one 
 he had quoted, he had for a long time been unable to understand 
 why in the larger centres — for example in the City of Toronto, 
 where the schools were practically unmixed — there had not been 
 more religious education imparted. There was no reason why 
 there should not be. If there was all the tendency towards union 
 of the Protestant denominations which it was stated there was, 
 would it not be possible where there were no Roman Cdtholic 
 pupils, and where the children of various Protestant denomina- 
 tions were together, that there should be more religious education, 
 and that it could be agreed upon. One could not if he would, nor 
 dare not if he could, close his eyes to the fact that agnosticism and 
 atheism were spreading a great deal in the world, and that these 
 did not come from the farm, the hamlet or the township, but from 
 the great centres of the population ; and would it not be a good 
 thing, instead of trying to abolish Separate Schools, if the Chris- 
 tian Churches of this Proviuce, where they have the opportunity, 
 without any demur being made, were to introduce into thtsj 
 Public Schools more of the religious teaching which in the end 
 might save a good many from drifting from Christianity into the 
 paths of agnosticism or atheism, or any of the ther isms to which 
 he had referred. The speaker next proceeded to give the reasons 
 why the Opposition leader had entered upon this crusade against 
 Separate Schools. He did not think he needed to go further than 
 his friend's London speech to find the reason, 'li^e hon. gentle- 
 man had been in this chamber during the time that all these var- 
 ioui amendments had been made. If there was anything that 
 his friends boasted of more than another, it was that there was 
 
SEPARATE SCHOOLS. 
 
 11 
 
 not a single item of legislation that his eye had not scanned ; 
 that he was there to put the dots over the i's and the crossea 
 over the t's ; that he never failed to unearth and detect any- 
 thing that was of doubtful or improper' tendency, and that any 
 particular provision that required amending he invariably put 
 right. Now, it must be a very great humiliation to him to 
 be compelled to practically say that these Separate School amend- 
 ments had passed through the House without his discovering any- 
 thing wrong or improper or unfair in them. He (Mr. Fraser) 
 thought he found the reason for his (Mr. Meredith's) position now 
 in what he had referred to to-day as 
 
 THE "SOLID VOTE," 
 
 and that, as the Roman Catholics were against him and in favor 
 of the Liberal Government 3f Ontario, he had nothing to gain 
 from that part of the electorate, and could afford to take such a 
 course as would give him increased support from Protestant re- 
 cruits. He (Mr. Fraser) denied that there was any such thing, or 
 ever had been such a thing, as a solid Roman Catholic vote in 
 this Province or in the Dominion. Even the clergy were divided, 
 and there had never been a time during which the Roman Catho- 
 lic vote for any party or parties had been solid or nearly solid. 
 Not only the laity were divided, but the clergy were divided in 
 their politics, and the Bishops also, just as they had a right to be. 
 There were some features of the political history of the Province, 
 80 far as it concerned Roman Catholics, which the leader of the 
 Opposition seemed to have forgotten, and he begged to remind 
 him ot them. In the old days the Catholics were found support- 
 ing Baldwin and the Liberals of that time with an approach al- 
 most to unanimity,and to-day the Roman Catholic allegiance to the 
 Liberal party would have been about as it was then had it not 
 been for this Separate School question. It was well known that 
 immediately prior to Confederation they were with the Conserva- 
 tive part3\ How did they come into Confederation? They came 
 in with the Separate School system guaranteed, and when, accord- 
 ing to the then views of the Conservative leaders, the old politi- 
 cal parties were disbanded, and the political slate was clean. 
 Next he referred to the callingr of a Roman Catholic Convention in 
 the City of Toronto, which was a lay movement prompted largely 
 by the illiberal way in which the Conservative leaders had treated 
 the Roman Catholic laity in the matter not alone of the distribu- 
 tion of the public patronage, but also as respected representation 
 in Parliament<. His hon. friend told him that the Roman 
 
12 
 
 SEPARATE SCHOOLS. 
 
 Catholics had a right to aspire. Yes, they had a right to aspire, 
 but it was very rarely that they got there. It sounded well on 
 the platforms, it went well at a convention, it had a very nice 
 ring about it, but there was a great unwritten law that " blood is 
 thicker than water," and where it was a matter of competition 
 for a particular post it would be found that in the end there 
 v/ere not many olKces for those 
 
 WHO FORMED A RELIGIOUS MINOHITY. 
 
 Friends of the hon. gentleman, when they went out into the back 
 sch<;ol-houses, were too prone to say the Catholics obtained too 
 much ; yet even under this Liberal Government, desirous as they 
 have been to do what was right by the Roman Catholics, they 
 had not been able to do it, simply becau.se the underlying intlu- 
 ences had been against them. The next movement of any conse- 
 quence among the Roman Catholics took place after the election 
 of 1^71. The taking into the Government of Mr. Scott, as Com- 
 ndssionur of Crown Lands, was looked upon by a 'ai-ge section 
 as a certain concession to what they were asking. In consequence, 
 a still further deviation from the ranks ol hon. gentleu^en op})o- 
 site took place. Later on came the platform laid down by the 
 Orangemen of this Province. In the Grand Lodge of Western 
 Ontario that met at Hamilton in 187(i, a political platform was 
 adopted, which is quoted in another part of this report. He asked 
 them, in the face of that platform, adopted by those who formed 
 the strength of the Conservative party then as they did tc-day, 
 what might any intelligent Catholic be expected to do except to 
 leave that party. In IblG, therefore, by leason of that platform, 
 there left the ranks of the Conservative party a large body of 
 Catholics, who joined the Liberal party and had remained with it 
 ever since. But they did not all leave, not even then. There 
 even then probably remained more than one-half the Roman 
 Catholics following the hon. gentleman opposite. Ju order to see 
 whether their separation from him had come about by perfectly 
 natural stages, he proposed to take the returns of the general 
 elections of 1879 and 18h3 and 188G. There were in this Province 
 constituencies in which the Roman Catholics were either in a 
 majority or nearly so, and othei-s in which they formed a very 
 large proportion of the electorate, and he intended to take these 
 constituencies to demonstrate that in the election of 187i), even 
 after these amendments, the hon. gentleman had as nearly as might 
 be one-half the Catholic vote. In Dundas his supporter was 
 elected (Mr, Broder.) The Roman Catholic vote in that constitu- 
 
SEPARATE SCHOOLS. 
 
 13 
 
 cncy was a lar^e one, and they largely supported him then and still 
 support him, though not in such numbers now as they did in the 
 election of 1879. How could they be expected to do so now, 
 when, as it would seem, the 
 
 LFADER OF THE OPrOSITION THOUGHT THAT 
 
 his only chance of success lay in driving out the Catholics from 
 his party in the hope that he might gather in sufficient of others 
 to compensate him, or more than compensate him, for their loss. 
 His policy was one of desperation. Having failed at all other 
 points, this last chance was to be taken. Then Mr. Fraser re- 
 turned to a review of the results of the election of 1871). He 
 showed how in Essex North, in jGlengarry, in Huron East, in 
 Lanark, in Ottawa, in Peterborough West, in Prescott, in Russell, 
 in Stormont, in North York, etc., in sixteen constituencies in all 
 where the Roman Catholic vote is either in the majority or forms 
 a very important factor in the contest, that vote ten years ago, so 
 far from being, as was now charged, a unit in favor of the Liberals, 
 wa ;o far as could 1 e gathered, much more in favor of the Op- 
 })osition than of the Government. In all these places the Roman 
 Catholic vote had either secured the election for Mr. Meredith of 
 a follower, who was in several cases a Roman Catholic himself, or 
 had furnished a largo proportion of the support which the Con- 
 servative candidate had secured. In Essex South Mr. Wigle hjtd 
 been returned to support Mr. Meredith, and in Glengarry Mr. 
 McMaster, one of his warmest and most talented supporters, had 
 been elected, both of them receiving the bulk of the Roman 
 Catholic vote. Mr. Lees had been returned for Lanark nominally 
 as an Independent, though ho seemed upon coming into the House 
 to forget that he had ever seen such a word as " independent," 
 and had been constantly voting for Mr. Meredith. He, too, had 
 had the largest share of the Roman Catholic vote of that con- 
 stituency. In Ottawa, if the Roman Catholic vote was not in a 
 majority, it was close upon it. Under the Manhood Suffrage Act 
 he believed it would be in a majority. This constituency sent a 
 Roman Catholic to support Mr. Meredith, in the person of Mr. 
 Baskerville, and so with other places named ; and more than 
 that, the Conservative candidate, defeated or victorious, had 
 almost invariably received the larger share of the Roman Catholic 
 vote of these constituencies. Altogether there were five Roman 
 Catholic members supporting Mr. Meredith in the Parliament that 
 ceased in 1883. 
 
 Mr. Fraser then told the story of the election of 1883, showing 
 
14 
 
 SEPARATE SCHOOLS. 
 
 that the result was practically the same, the larger proportion of 
 the Roman Catholic vote being still cast on the Conservative side. 
 Cornwall returned Mr. Ross, with the aid of a majority of the 
 Roman Catholic vote ; Essex North, Mr. White, a Roman Catho- 
 lic ; West Kent >-^^ turned Mr. Clancy, a Roman Catholic ; in 
 Lanark the " inaependent " Mr. Lees was again returned, and all 
 of them chiefly or largely by the aid of the Roman Catholic vote. 
 In Kingston Mr. Metcalfe shared the Roman, Catholic vote. 
 
 Mr. Metcalfe — They are orthodox there yet. (Laughter.) 
 
 Mr. Fraser — Yes ; my hon. friend is prepared to admit that in 
 spite of the rumors that are abroad it is not true, so far as King- 
 ston is concerned, that the Roman Catholics have left the Con- 
 servative party — not even with Archbishop Cleary there. 
 
 Mr. Metcalfe — He is the best man they ha ve. 
 
 Mr, Fmser, in continuing, briefly showed tha', in Ottawa Mr. 
 Baskerville had been returned, in Prescott the Conservative candi- 
 date got 95 per cent, of the Roman Catholic vote, and Russell and 
 Stormont both sent supporters of Mr. Meredith to the House. 
 Thus, said Mr. Fraser, he had demonstrated that down to 1886, 
 so far as Roman Catholics were concerned, notwithstanding all 
 that had been said about the alliance between the Government 
 and the Roman Catholic hierarchy, notwithstanding that it had 
 been said that the Roman Catholic lay vote would go to the polls 
 in a solid mass, notwithstanding that it had been called the 
 "sheep " vote, notwithstanding all these and various other sland- 
 ers, down to that time, at least, they found a goodly half of the 
 Roman Catholics of the country supporting hon. gentlemen op- 
 posite, and several supporting them in the House. But in 1886, 
 there was reason why they should not be found doing so. If the 
 leader of the Opposition had not 
 
 MOUNTED THE PROTESTANT HORSE 
 
 he had at least put on the boots and fastened his spurs. Brother 
 William Bell would not otherwise have told them what he had 
 the other day in the city. The Roman Catholic people were not 
 idiots or fools. They knew and scanned the politics of the country 
 and could read between lines and see the signs of the times, if 
 these told anything in the election of 1886 it was this — that, look- 
 ing at what had been said from the public platforms in Toronto, 
 pl?itforms on which Mr. Meredith's chief lieutenants had been some 
 of the speakers, the time had come for their departure from his 
 political side in larger numbeis than ever before. He ventured 
 to say that any Protestant denomination that supported either 
 
SKPARATE SCHOOLS. 
 
 15 
 
 the Opposition or the Government, and that bad been assailed as 
 the Roman Catholic denomination had been then by the party it 
 was giving its support to, would have deserted that party, Gov- 
 ernment or Opposition and rightly so. No wonder the Conserva- 
 tive party had lost a considerable portion of the Koman Catholic 
 vote. Mr. Meredith had driven them from him. He had done 
 so because at the very last minute he thought he saw his oppor- 
 tunity. He thought this great Protestant Province of Ontario 
 could be aroused by religious prejudices. Although he had pre- 
 tended no hostility to the minority, yet the minority had con- 
 cluded from all that he had said, and that had been said by his 
 followers, that if he got into power he would be at the mercy of 
 those who formed the strongest part, the very backbone of his 
 political party. Brother Wm. Bell had told them that he intended 
 mounting the Protestant horse. 
 
 THE PROCLAMATION HAD BEEN 
 
 made. Everybody who could understand the English language 
 understood from what had been announced that Mr. Meredith 
 was prepared to vote for such an amendment to the Constitution 
 as would give to the Legislature the right to deal with Separate 
 Schools, and if this power were obtained by him there could be 
 no doubt, after what he had said there that night that he could 
 not, if he wished to be considered an honest man, do otherwise 
 than endeavor to abolish Separate Schools. But even in 1886, in 
 spite of all that had been said, and with so much that could be 
 read between the lines of his manifesto that year, with the evi- 
 dent tendency of the statements made on his behalf through the 
 country by his candidates, still there was no solid Roman Catho- 
 lic vote in the Province of Ontario. Mr. Meredith had not so 
 large a share of it as before, but even with things as they were, 
 with the evident trend of his own mind, with his evident antag- 
 onism to the Roman Catholic minority of the Province, there 
 were still thousands of Roman Catholic votes cast for him through 
 Ontario. In Es.sex North, Mr. White was defeated by Mr. Pacaud 
 but Mr. White received the vote of his co- religionists. Mr. 
 White, by the way, Mr. Eraser pointed out, was the particular 
 ' Roman Catholic who was taken round to the various constitu- 
 encies to straighten things out. 
 
 MR. MEREDITH WAS ASHAMtD 
 
 at this time to show any more than his boots and spurs, and'he 
 didn't want to risk too much on them ; so while he was doing all 
 
16 
 
 SEPARATE SCHOOLS. 
 
 he could to increase the number of his Protestant supporters, Mr. 
 White was sent around to try and keep the Roman Catholics to- 
 gether. Mr. Fraser then repeated the story of how, while he was 
 going round in this way, Mr. White happened to get into a church 
 one day while a service was on, and, upon the kneeling of the 
 congregation, Mr. White had knelt, too, and the prayer happened 
 to be for the success of Mr. White's opponents. Mr. White, no 
 doubt, prayed as heartily as anybody, and his prayer was 
 answered, for his opponents were successful. After that let no- 
 body doubt the efficacy of prayer, said Mr. Fraser. The 
 hon. Commissioner recounted the several other constituencies 
 which retained even in 188G a good share of the Roman Catholic 
 vote. When he came to Kent, he remarked that his hon. friend, 
 Mr. Clancy, a Roman Catholic himself, had been still returned for 
 that constituency. 
 
 Mr. Clancy broke in with, " Yes, in spite of you." 
 Mr. Fraser said, " I was on my back on a sick bed at the time, 
 so I don't see how the hon. gentleman can say in spite of 
 me. If I had been able to do anything I might have succeeded 
 in reducing his two or three of a majority so much that he would 
 not have got back here at all." 
 
 Mr. Fraser proceeded to show that ev«n at the election of '86 
 he could point to fifteen or twenty constituencies in the Province 
 where the Roman Catholic vote was largest, and demonstrate 
 that that vote had not been influenced either one way or the 
 other by the Roman Catholic hierarchy. The Roman Catholic 
 minority were not slaves or bondsmen in the exercise of their 
 franchise. They voted as independently as the Protestants. It was 
 an insult, and an offensive insult, to say they did otherwise. ' ey 
 did not require *he ballot to protect them. No doubt in some 
 constituencies tne ecclesiastics had exercised their influence, just 
 as many of the Protestant clergy had done. He did not hear very 
 much said against the political sermons that were prciched from 
 Protestant pulpits on behalf of the Conservatives so frequently, 
 but if the Roman Catholic priests had done the like the Orange 
 lodges would be blue with denunciation. The Roman Catholic 
 clergy had the same rights as the Protestant clergy. He was not 
 protesting against the use the Protestant clergy put these rights 
 to. Ministers and priests had the right to use their influence 
 just as other men did. He knew no reason why they should not 
 be permitted to express their opinion just as other men did. Yet 
 Mr. Meredith, only in his recent London speech, had taken a slash 
 at Archbishop Cleary for using his influence, and had carefully 
 refrained from mentioning the Protestant clergymen who had 
 
 1/ 
 
SEPARATE SCHOOLS. 
 
 17 
 
 J 
 
 preached sermons on his behalf in London pulpits on a certain 
 Sunday shortly preceding the last general election. 
 
 Mr. Meredith said he had never even heard of them. 
 
 Mr. Fraser said they were reported in the press at all events, 
 and must have been delivered. No doubt priests of the Roman 
 Catholic minority had exercised their rights similarly. They had 
 a right to do so. Many of them had used their influence against 
 hon. gentlemen opposite. How could they have expected them 
 to do otherwise when the conflict came to what it was in 188G, or, 
 still more, what it ha<l come to now, when it had become " a bat- 
 tle of tlie schools," as it had been styled the other day by the 
 hon. member for Toronto (Mr. H. E. Clarke), an hon. gentle- 
 man whom he supposed would be one of those likely to 
 form a Government if they were returned to power » He 
 (Mr. Clarke) had said that Separate Schools would have to be 
 tolerated until the Legislature got the power to abolish them. 
 There was no reason then for Roman Catholic clergy acting 
 otherwise than they had done. Actuated as they were from re- 
 ligious belief, they would be traitors to their Church if they did ; 
 false to their own conscientious convictions and to the Church of 
 which they were priests and ministers if they did not, so far as 
 lay in their power, seek to prevent the 
 
 ABOLITION OF THOSE SCHOOLS 
 
 of which they thought so much, and the maintaining of which 
 was with them a matter of faith and conscience. They were not 
 to be blamed either for their active participation in matters re- 
 lating to the schools. They would have been more readily blamed 
 by the Roman Catholic minority if they had not displayed this ac- 
 tivity. The Roman Catholic minorit}^ expected them to do this. 
 They felt, many of them, that their priests had more time at their 
 disposal, and were otherwise better fitted than many laymen were, 
 for taking an active part in defending the rights that had been 
 guaranteed to the Roman Catholic minority in this respect. They 
 were expected to devote themselves more particularly than lay- 
 men to matters connected with the training and education of the 
 young. He repeated that if the Roman Catholic minority of the 
 Province found their priests not giving attention to the schools 
 and active in their defence, they would be the first to say the 
 priests were wrong in not doing so, and when they do give atten- 
 tion, and carefully day by day, week by week and month by 
 month, the Roman Catholic minority approve their action and 
 applaud them. But there was yet another matter which the 
 
18 
 
 SEPARATE SCHOOIS. 
 
 Roman Caiholic minority had not lost sight of. If the hon. 
 gentleman opposite was called upon to form a Qo^^ernment, what 
 sort of a one would it be ( There would be, he supposed, his 
 Brother from Owtaii Sound (Mr. Creiffhtop), and his Brother from 
 Grenville (Mr. French), and his Brother from Toronto (Mr, H. E. 
 Clarke), and his Brother from Muskoka (Mr. Marter). Why, the 
 Grand Lodge would be in session every time the executive 
 council was called together ! (Loud laughter and applause.) 
 
 Mr. French said Mr. Frase • had made a mistake in including 
 him in the Grand Lodge. 
 
 ' Mr. Fraser, continuing, suggested that perhaps one of them 
 would tyle the door, and the laughter was renewed. But, he said, 
 he thought the Roman Catholic minority had no desire any more 
 than Protestants to be ruled by the Grand Lodges. And thus the 
 Conservatives as led by the member from London were even 
 now driving Roman Catholics away from them : they were giving 
 them no place in their counsels and did not intend to. That Ro- 
 man Catholic would be stupid, would be a traitor to his own best 
 interests, and would lose sight of what he ought to do if he 
 lent any intiuence to help Mr. Meredith to power. He did not 
 doubt that some of them would do it, some whom his words 
 of advice would not reach. Mr. Clancy, no doubt, would do his 
 best to help him, but if he came back, what influence would he 
 have in such a Government as he had suggested, always supposing 
 it was returned to power, and the hon. gentleman was lucky 
 enough — no doubt he would consider it lucky — to form a member 
 of it ? And what other Government than such a one could be 
 formed by the Conservatives opposite ? Why, if the hon. gentle- 
 man entered such a Government and adapted as he must its 
 policy on the Separate Schools question, whom would he represent ? 
 Nobody, he would tell him. One after another, said Mr. Fraser 
 in conclusion of his remarks on this point, could be seen the 
 mile-stones he had pointed out as having been planted by the 
 hon. gentlemen opposite, and looking at these mile-stones the 
 House would see why to-day there are so many of the Roman 
 Catholic minority of the Province supporting this Liberal Gov- 
 ernment. 
 
 Although he had, said Mr. Fraser, already detained tfte House 
 a considerable time, he could not ref»"'in from a few words more 
 in respect to some of the provisions c. /ne bills before them. 
 
 Mr! Meredith — " Hear, hear." 
 
 Mr. Fraser — My hon. friend says " Hear, hear." He did not 
 say " Hear, hear," some time ago when something was being said 
 to which it would have become him well to say " Hear, hear." 
 
 1 
 
SEPARATE SCHOOkS. 
 
 19 
 
 t 
 
 (Laughter.) The member for London had denounced the Govern- 
 ment, in his London appeal to the electors of the Province, as hav- 
 ing been in league with the Roman Catholic hierarchy and of 
 having, as the price of their support, made certain concessions 
 in respect of Separate Scliools. Nothing could be moio untrue, 
 nothing more unjust. He denounced the Government, too, b« 
 cause, so he alleged, legislation, sanctioned by the House, had 
 tended to increase Separate Schools, and he said any man would 
 be a traitor to the Province wh would permit such legislation. 
 Well, according to his own showing, he and the party to which 
 he belonged must have been either traitors to their country or 
 not quite so capable as they occasionally claim to be. Either 
 they did not know what was ^oing through the House, or else, 
 knowing it, they were, directly or indirectly, instrumental in 
 passing it. He could take whichever horn of the dilemma he 
 liked. (Cheers and laughter.) What he (Mr. Fraser) had to say in 
 reference to the proposed changes in the laws relating to Separate 
 Schools was this : — That the British North Amei ica Act guaran- 
 teed to the Roman Catholics certain rights and privileges they 
 enjoyed at the time tha": wo came into Confederation. One of 
 the rights and privileges so 
 
 ENJOYED THEN VAS THB RIGHT TO 
 
 maintain Separate Schools under the terms and conditions pro- 
 vided in the Separate Schools Act. This House had no power, as 
 he read the law — no power whatever to enact some of the legis- 
 lation that was now proposed by the opposition. In view of 
 what had been said by the gentlemen opposite — in view of their 
 avowed and evident intention to abolish Separate Schools — he 
 proposed to advise, with a full sense of the responsibility that he 
 might be under to the House, the Roman Catholic minority 
 to resist these proposed amendments — to resist them on the 
 ground that the House had no power to legislate in this direction 
 — to resist them on the further ground that they have reason to 
 believe th^t they are not proposed in the interests of Separate 
 Schools — to resist them because, in short, they are ultra vires, and 
 intended to cripple the Separate Schools. (Cheers.) There was 
 an old saying anent the Greeks, that they were to be feared 
 most bearing gifts. It was well to remember it here. None 
 of these amendments came from the friends of Separate Schools. 
 The gentlemen who are now proposing to amend the Separate 
 School Act do not hide that they would prefer to abolish them 
 altogether. Therefore Roman Catholics had reason to regard 
 
20 
 
 SKPAUATE SCHOOLS. 
 
 with suspicion all proposals emanating from them. "We ha«l 
 the privilege," Mr. Fraser continued, "at the time that the 
 British North America Act was passed ; we had the privilege of 
 selecting as teachers for Separate Schools those qualified under 
 the then laws or regulations of either Upper or Lower Canada — 
 Ontario or Quebec, and 1 say that there 
 
 WAS GOOD REASON FOR THIS 
 
 privilege being given us. I say that this House has no right un- 
 der the British North America Act to change or alter this right. 
 I venture to say that nothing can be alleged against the capacity 
 of the teachers of our Separate Schools. They are in every way 
 as tit for the duties they are called upon to perform as the teachers 
 of our Public Schools. Here, in the City of Toronto, we are not 
 afraid, so far as our system is concerned, so far as the teachers 
 are concerned, to place them alongside those of the Public Schools 
 and to challenge comparison in the matter of capacity, 1 say 
 that in the Province of Ontario — and I am not now theorising 
 or making rash assertions, or talking for talking'? sake — through- 
 out the whole Province of Ontario, taking the Separate Schools 
 in comparison with the Public Schools, they stand just as high, 
 and they rank equally strong, so far teaching capacity is con- 
 cerned. What happened the other day in the City of London, in 
 the constituent^y of my hon. friend ? 1 think every Public School 
 teacher was dismissed. 
 
 Mr. Meredith — Only for the purpose of re-engaging and re- 
 classifying. 
 
 Mr. Fkaser — The system was not working well then. What- 
 ever may be advanced or alleged against the Separate Schools, 
 you will find that the same complaint can be made against the 
 Public Schools. (Hear, hear.) As was inseparable from any sys- 
 tem of public instruction extending over a large tract of country, 
 there are here and there schools that are not free from objection. 
 You hear the same things said even about the churches. Oijcasion- 
 ally you hear a complaint that this or that church is not so well 
 served, that there is a lack of efficiency, that there are defects 
 somewhere or other that ought to be remedied. So there will 
 be in almost any system ; but although you may occasionally 
 find ground for complaint, you will prove nothing against the 
 system taking it as a whole. Take them as a whole, the pupils, 
 brought up at these schools can challenge comparison with those 
 attending the 'Public Schools, and results prove that what I 
 have asserted is true. Therefore I say there are two reasons why 
 
HKrAUATK SCHOOLS. 
 
 SI 
 
 things should be allowod to remaiti as they are : First, the sys- 
 tem is working woli and satisfactorily, and .second, we have no 
 power to make the chr.nge. The lion, gentleman then poinied out 
 ihat the Separate Schools, having regard to the tact that the 
 Public Schools were supported not merely out of the rates and 
 taxes ot' the ordinary Public School supporter, but had also the 
 support received from the school tax |)aid by corporations, wpre 
 not treated fairly, and that, therefore, in their Separate ScHooi 
 system it was made practically 
 
 COMPUL OUY FOR llOMAN CATUOLICS 
 
 to get their teachers at as small expense as possible. He ha(" been 
 told the other day, and his authority was tirst-cla.ss, that eve ^ in 
 cases where the majority of shareholders in corporate companies 
 were Roman Catholics, the whole of the school tax levied on the 
 corporate property went to the Public Schools ; but what he 
 wanted to point out was that although there was a power in the 
 -.Latuie book that permitted corporate bodies to pay their .school 
 rates to eitlier Public or Separate Schools accoriling to the pro- 
 portion in which their stocks or shares were held by Roman 
 Oatholich or otheiwi.se, yet it was only a pennis.sive power, and 
 had not been exercised to any extent within the Province. He 
 iniglut be mistaken in making a general assertion, but he was in- 
 Coi'med that it was a fact. Therefore there was financial as well 
 as other rea.sons for the Separate Schools securing the less expen- 
 sive and costly, but not less efficient teaching, securabie through 
 the services of some of the religious orders. There was no one 
 who could over-estimate the ad van' re it was to young children 
 that religious Orders of the Church devoted themselves to this 
 work of teaching without askinir but the smallest remuneration 
 in return. It was only those who had expeiienced the benefit that 
 could realize how much the gain was. There was not an honest 
 Separate School supporter from one end of the country to the 
 other who would be willing to part with a single advantage that 
 the schools now had on the ground that the teachers did not carry 
 the certific %tes that other teachers possessed. (Cheers.) So much 
 for this part of the subject. He objected to the proposal to im- 
 pose the ballot upon Separate School supporters for various rea- 
 sons. One reason, as had been well pointed out by the 
 Minister of Education, was that the compulsoo^ adopticn 
 of the ballot would be a violation of the Const*ution. It 
 was only necessary to look at the system of election in opera- 
 tion at the time of Confederation to see in this what every reason- 
 
22 
 
 SEPARATE SCHOOLS. 
 
 able person would be })repared to admit, an infringement of 
 their rights, an attempt to do away 
 
 WITU THE PlllVlLEGES THAT THE 
 
 Roman Catholics then enjoyed. The point, however, would be 
 made still more clear by supposing that the then system of voting 
 had been by ballot, and that for any reason, no matter what, it 
 were now proposed to abolish the ballot and to compel the elec- 
 tion of trustees by open voting. Would it be contendad that to 
 so enact would not deprive Separate School supporters of a right 
 and privilege — namely, the ri^ht and privilege of electing their 
 trustees by ballot. What difierence in principle, he asked, could 
 there be between the supposed attempt to take away the ballot and 
 the attempt now being made to take away the right of open vot- 
 ing. But there were other reasons why he objected, why the Roman 
 Catholic minority of this Province objected, to the introduction of 
 the ballot. " You cannot," the hon. gentleman proceeded, "diassoci- 
 ate it from the discussion outside ; you cannot disassociate it from 
 my hon. friend's Loudon speech ; you cannot disassociate it from 
 what was contained in the platform of the hon. gentleman 
 opposite ; you cannot d Lssassociate it from the fact that its alleged 
 necessity is otlensive to the hierarchy of the Roman Catho- 
 lic Church ; that it is offensive to the clergy of that Church ; 
 that it is offensive to the laity of that Church in that it insinuates 
 that only under the ballot could their rights and j)rivileges be 
 maintained. (Cheers.) Gentlemen opposite, in order to make 
 more studiously offensive what was already offensive enough, 
 make the insinuation that the laity are afraid to exeroise their 
 undoubted rights on account of the improper influence of the 
 clergy. I say there is no self-respecting Roman Catholic in this 
 Province of Ontario who will not 
 
 .FEEL. KEENLY THE INSULT TO HTS 
 
 clergy, nor any less the studied offence to the laity. It says 
 in effect that we Separate School supporters are slaves, bonds- 
 men and serfs — not allowed to control onr own actions — not 
 allowed to have our own wishes in the election of Trustees. It 
 said this because forsooth in the City of Toronto in certain 
 localities the priest has happened to exercise his legitimate 
 influence in^he matter of elections. (Cheers.) The Roman 
 Catholics are not asking for this legislation, and I make bold to 
 presume *hat they know much better what their own require- 
 ments are than do the gentlemen opposite or any other persons 
 
SEPARATE SCHOOLS. 
 
 23 
 
 outside thoir Church." Was tliero, Mr. Fraser afcked, a single 
 denomination in the Province of Ontario who would not re.sent 
 such legislation as this ? Put tlie members of the Methodist 
 persuasion or of any other denomination in a position similar to 
 that of the Roman Catholic minority, would the House dare to 
 force upon them such alterations of the law unless they were 
 asked for ? If any party proposed to abolish the privileges of 
 any religious dencaination, tnat <lenominati(m would be found a 
 unit in opposition. The hon. gentleman had laid down the rule 
 when he appeared before the electors of the City of London that 
 the Roman Catholic minority, because of its being, as he in that 
 speech wished th« people to believe, a solid, compact political unit 
 ruled by the Hierarchy, should be regarded as a common enemy, 
 and where there was a common enemy people were justi'^ed 
 in uniting against it. If this were so, then, u-ccording to his 
 argument, every denomination 
 
 THAT UNITED IN DEFENCE OF ITS 
 
 rights should be treated as a common enemy. It would be the 
 same were a proposal made, on the principle that there ought to 
 be only one University in Ontario, to abolish the Victoria Uni- 
 versity or the Queen's University at Kingston, Does any one 
 suppose that the religious denominations to which belonged 
 these Universities would not stand up as i unit to defend their 
 rights ; and would they be regarded as a common enemy ? If 
 they proposed to interfere with the smalles!" right of the Presby- 
 terian University of Queen's did they suppose they would not 
 find the Presbyterians united against the political party at the 
 next general election that attempted to infringe that right ? 
 (Hear, hear.) He wanted to know why it was that a different 
 line of action was to be expected from the Roman Catholic 
 minority than would u Aer similar circumstances be expected 
 from a Protestant deno aination. Their educational institutions 
 were as dear to Roman Catholics as v o those of any other de- 
 nomination to the members of their boay. When danger assailed 
 them was it not to be expected then that they would unite even 
 more closely than they had done ? So far as the Opposition 
 was concerned, they were as good as pledged to abolish the 
 Separate School system — they were practically pledged to the 
 hilt to do so. It had became, in truth, a cardinal poin.t in their 
 platform when adopted and sanctioned by the Grand Lodges. 
 This was the platform, adopted by the Grand Lodge of Ontario 
 West, at Hamilton, at a meeting held on the 15th and IGth 
 
24 
 
 SEPABATE SCHOOLS. 
 
 February, 1876, and it was now virtually the platform of tte 
 hon. gentleman and his colleagues : — 
 
 Resolved, That, in the opinion of the Risfht Worshipful Grand Lodije, the 
 time has arrived when the Orangemen of Canada, without reference to 
 poliuca or political parties, mast unite in one grand political phalanx in 
 order to stop the encroachments of the Romish Hierarchy upon the body 
 politic of the country, and that the folio wins; platform be adopted : — 
 
 Unswerving and untiring aUegiance to the Mother Country and British 
 Connection. 
 
 (2) No grants of money from the public purse for sectarian purposes. 
 
 (3) No Separate Schools, but free secular education for all. 
 
 (4) Taxation for all ; taxation of all property held by religious bodies up- 
 on its fair assessment value. 
 
 (5) The opening of all public institutions in the laud, religious or other- 
 wise, to public inspection by Government officials. 
 
 (G) That it shall be the duty of the County Master in every Orange 
 county, in the event oi a general election oi other election taking place, 
 either for the Local or Dominion Parliaments, to submit the platform to the 
 candidate or candidates to ascertain if they will support it or not, and then 
 to call a county meeting before the day of polling, and if neither of the candi- 
 dates will suppDrt the said platform, then it shall be the duty of the County 
 Lodge to bring out a candidate. 
 
 The hon. gentleman and his colleagues were under the power 
 of the Grand Lodges, and he (Mr. Fraser) did not think the day 
 had yet arrived when this Province was willing to be thus 
 controlled and ruled and legislated for. The Eoman Catholics 
 resented these proposed measures of the Opposition as an inter- 
 ference with their rights, as an insult to themselves; they objected, 
 too, because they did not require them, because it was proposed 
 to thrust upon them legislation that th^y did not ask for, and 
 they opposed some of it because it was ultra vires. The Roman 
 Catholic minority didn't propose to stand quietly by and see cut 
 away, chip by chip, the whole of the Separate School system If 
 the hon. gentlemen opposite could have their way, if they could 
 effect their purpose, the guarantees given under the British 
 North America Act would only be 
 
 A SHAM, A DELUSION AND A SNARE. 
 
 He had a few words to sa.y with reference to the necessity for 
 giving notice by a Roman Citholic before he could become a 
 Separate School supporter. It was an oft-repeated allegation 
 that the amendment of 1S79 was introduced to do away with «he 
 necessity for giving notice. There never was any such intention. 
 
SEPARATE SCHOOLS. 
 
 25 
 
 Those responsible for the amendment proclaimed almost from the 
 housetops that it would still be necessary for Se[)arate School 
 suppcrters to first give notice that they were such. Before the 
 last general election the Attorney-General in his letter to the Rev. 
 Mr. Milligan showed as ciearly as he possibly could that the law 
 still required notice on the part of anybody intending to become 
 a Separate School supporter ; and that if he wanted to again be- 
 come a Public School supporter he had to give notice. He (Mr. 
 Fraser) during the last general election held several meetings, 
 and at every one of those meetings he put it in the plainest 
 language he could that there was no such thing as becoming a 
 Separate School supporter without the giving of this notice. 
 The am adment of 1879 was intended simply to provide the 
 proper machinery for the performance by the assessor of his 
 duties in preparing the assessment roll. 
 
 Mr. Mkrkdith. — Why did not the municipalities act ? 
 
 Mr. FiiASEii. — The hon. gentleman had given quotations show- 
 i?ig that notice had not been given in some municipalities since 
 1879. I '< 3 would tind that prior to 1879 the same [practice very 
 general!; obtained wherever there were Separate Schools. He 
 (Mr. Fr ,ier) had made diligent inquiry, and found in some places 
 that alt' ough there had been Separate Schools in existence for 
 thirty years there were no Separate School notices given. He 
 was bound to say, if he told the truth, that he never himself gave 
 a written notice that he would become a Separate School sup- 
 porter. Even here in the municipality of Toronto, and in all 
 municipalities where Separate Schools existed, neither authorities 
 nor people ha,^ cared a brass farthing whether the Roman Catho- 
 lics gave notice or not. They were acting neighbourly and friendly 
 and generously, and not caring to take any advantage of the fact 
 that no notices had been given. He would undertake to say that 
 throughout Ontario, until this sectarian cry had been raised, not 
 even the raoist vigorous opponents of Separate Schools concerned 
 themselves us to whether notices were given or not. The fact was 
 that where a Separate School existed everyone acted on what was 
 well known to be the actual state of atiairs, that all the Ro- 
 man Catholics of the locality, with here and there a rare excep- 
 tion, were voluntarily and freely supporters of the school, and no 
 attention was paid to the mere technicality of requiring a notice. 
 On the other hand, everybody who was not a Roman Catholic 
 was supposed to be a supporter of Public Schools. The ])ublic 
 officers recognised this. He was not prepared to speak for eveiy 
 municipality, but ho would undertake 
 
26 
 
 SEPARATE SCHOOLS. 
 
 TO SAY AS REGARDED A GREAT 
 
 many of them that prior to 1879, as since that time, notices 1 &<\ 
 not been given, and it was a significant fact that nobody had Leen 
 found mean enough to make an appeal against a Roman Catholic 
 because he had not given notice. Was not this a proof that, throrgh- 
 out the Province, Protestants and Catholics alike were acting 
 in a neighbourly and friendly way one toward another — oh; t the 
 Protestant majority did not care whether Roman Catholics gave 
 notice or not, so long as they were voluntarily supporting their 
 schools, that was all that they concerned themselves about. Sepa- 
 rate School supporters did not ask for the amendment of 187G, 
 which made necessary the amendment of 1879. As a matter of 
 fact, in 99 cases out of 100, probably in almost all ca; es, the 
 assessor was a Protestant, and being a Protestant would s e that 
 Public Schools were not prejudiced. He would ask anybcdy who 
 knew the condition of affairs — he would ask the hon. gentleman 
 himself — whether the state of affairs was not practically that 
 every Roman Catholic, with very rare exceptions, was known to 
 be a Separate School supporter in the municipality within which 
 a Separate School was situated. 
 
 Mr. Meredith — I have no knowledge ; I cannot say. 
 
 Mr. Fraser — I say that this was so the Province over. This 
 was the state of affairs when this amendment to the law was 
 passed in 1879. If they had the same regard, he contended, to 
 the interests of the Roman Catholic body that they had for in- 
 terests of the Wesley an, the Presbyterian, the Baptigt body or the 
 Church of England, the Opposition would not attempt such l« gis- 
 lation as was now proposed, for they knew it would be resi; ted 
 and opposed by the masses to be affected by it. Mr. Fraser tl en, 
 at considerable length, quoted from the reports of The Globe and 
 The Mail of the debate in Committee when the Act of 1879 was 
 before the House. The report read : — / 
 
 " Mr. O'SuLLivAN moved an amendment to the bi 1 providing that everj 
 Roman Catholio should be deemed ipso facto a Sep rate School auppoi ter, 
 and that notice in writing ahoald be required to be gi > en by a Roman Catho- 
 lic rate- payer before school taxes levied upon his prO|erty should be applied 
 in aid of Public Schools. " 
 
 The report of his (Mr. Fraser'a) speech read : — 
 
 '* He desired that nothing should appear in the Act which might be claimed 
 unconstitutional. The fundamental principle of the Separate School was 
 that it was permissive." 
 
SEPARETE SCHOOLS. 
 
 27 
 
 \ '■ I 
 
 It was clear that Dr. O'Sullivan, who was one of the active 
 supporters of the member for London, thought that notice would 
 be still requisite, and that he (Mr. Eraser) contended that the 
 necessity for giving notice could not be interfered with. The 
 report of the debate proceeded : 
 
 " Mr. Wbxtb was somewhat surprised that the Commissioner of Public 
 Works should discourage the motion of the hon. member for East Peter- 
 borough. He was not sure that it required an amendment to the As- 
 sessment Act, and if necessary he suggested that the consideration of the 
 present bill should be postponed. In any case he submitted that there was 
 nothing asked for but what was fair and reasonable and he believed the 
 Bouse was prepared to grant it. These Bchools were recognized by the Act, 
 and, therefore, he (Mr. White) did not see where the constitutional question 
 suggested by the Commissioner of Public Works came in." 
 
 *' Mr. 81NCLAJK said the idea of allowing any person to support the Sepa- 
 rate Schools if he wished, simply meant that persons who cared nothing for 
 the principle would support that school when the taxes would be lightest." 
 
 *' Mr. (Jrook'i, (who was the Minister of Education at the time), said this 
 would elevate the Separate School sj'stem into a rival of the Public Schools. 
 The British North America Act provided that existing privileges of Separate 
 School supporters should be continued, but this amendment would make the 
 Separate School compulsory. The principle of Separate Schools," Mr. 
 Crooks continued, " whether Protestant or Catholic, was simply permissive, 
 and he was not prepared to go so far as to guarantee any support to them. 
 His (Dr. Sullivan's) contention was that not only should every Roman Catho- 
 lic be regarded as a Separate School supporter, but that he shcmld not be re- 
 garded as a Public School supporter unless he gave notice. He (Mr. Crooks) 
 was only in favor of an alteration of the law so far as the change was re- 
 quired by public necessity. All he (Mr. Crooks) assumed to do was to pro- 
 vide that the assessor should do his duty." 
 
 Mr. Fraser said it was necessary, in 1879, to provide some 
 machinery for distinguishing between Roman Catholic School 
 supporters and Public School supporters; and the machinery 
 which was provided in the Bill introduced by Mr. Crooks as 
 Minister.fof Education was the simplest and the most fair. He 
 denied that there had ever been a single utterance of his made 
 which could be construed into a contention that the Separate 
 Schools should be compulsory; and the hon. gentleman must have 
 misunderstood the position he (Mr. Eraser) had taken when he 
 said what he did in his speech at London. If the House were 
 willing, and there was no objection by anybody to the provision, 
 that every Roman Catholic should be compelled to be a Separate 
 School supporter, he (Mr. Eraser) would oppose it on the ground 
 that the Legislature was assuming a prerogative that might even- 
 tually lead to the abolition of the Separate Schools. Eor if thia 
 Legislature could declare that all Roman Catholics must be 
 Separate School supporters, the right to make such a declaration 
 
28 
 
 SEPARATE SCHOOLS. 
 
 would involve the power to declare that no Roman Catholic could 
 be a Separate School supporter. The power to do the one thing 
 would, of logical necessity, include the other. Thee was one 
 other bill he would refer to — that relating to H h School 
 Trustees. The Separate School supporters were not very much 
 concerned about that bill. It was 
 
 NEVER ASKED FOR BY PRIEST 
 
 or bishop. Some of the laity had thought it would be a goo 1 
 thing, however, to interest Roman Catholics more largely in 
 the High Schools. If this House were of opinion that the 
 privilege given of electing a High School Trustee, should — 
 not, as a yielding to popular clamor, or cant, or hypocrisy, — he 
 taken away from Separate Schools boards, no objection would be 
 raised. At the same time he would be greatly disappointed 
 if that were done, and the House was hardly likely to take away 
 from these school boards a privilege that did nobody any harm. 
 Moreover, wherever there was a High School in existence every 
 Roman Catholic must pay taxes in support of it, and it was 
 thought that the power of being able to select a High School Trus- 
 tee would interest the Roman Catholics more in these in'^titutions, 
 and the result proved that they were right. If the Protestant 
 majority of this country, however, thought this should not be 
 continued, by all means let it be taken away ; but if the House 
 decided to do so he did not think it would be acting in the best 
 interests of the country, in the best interests of the High Schools, 
 or in the best interests of the cause of higher education. In con- 
 clusion, he would again repoat that thero was nothing the Roman 
 Catholics held more dear than their Separate Schools, and if the 
 House passed a law abolishing them there would still be Separate 
 Schools. What, after all, did they get towards their support ? 
 They got about $18,000, about CO cents for each pupil in the Ro 
 man Catholic Separate Schools What was that amongst them ? 
 His hon. friend had shown that in this small contribution there 
 was some connection bet/.veen Church and State because there 
 was religious teaching in the schools ; but if there was a violation 
 of the principle of no connection between Church and State in 
 respect of Separate Schools, there was similar violation so far 
 as the Public Schools were concerned, for in these, religious teach- 
 ing, with certain restrictions, was also permitted. Undoubtedly 
 there was religious teaching given in the Separate Schools ; that 
 was the reason for their existence. 
 
 MM 
 
SErARATE SCHOOLS. 
 
 ». 
 
 IF ROMAN CATHOLICS DID NOT 
 
 intend to give their children religious education they would not 
 ask for this system. It was, so far as religion was concerned, so 
 far as the great hereafter was concerned, that they asked for this 
 Separate School system. As regards the connection between 
 Church and State there was just as much of it in mere principle 
 in the case of the one class of schools as in the other; and h© 
 might be permitted to say again that he was surprised that the 
 Protestant bodies did not unite and have a gi'eat deal more reli- 
 gion taught in their Public Schools than there was now, in locali- 
 ties where Roman Catholics had now their Separate Schools, and 
 where, therefore, nobody's convictions could be in any way en- 
 dangered. He was speaking now of the great centres, where there 
 were Roman Catholic Schools, and where the Public Schools were 
 attended by exclusively Protestant children. He was surprised 
 that there was not more religion taught in the Public Schools in 
 such places than there was to-day. He asked the pardon of the 
 House for having detained it so long. He had endeavored luo put 
 the case on behalf of his fellow Roman Catholics as fairly as he 
 could, and he hoped in doing so he had not given offence to any 
 class. He concluded by expressing the hope that the time may 
 never come in the Province of Ontario when the legislature would 
 be called upon to deal with the question of the abolition of the 
 Separate Schools. His hon. friend had asked for public confidence 
 in three or four general elections and he had failed every time, and 
 he (Mi\ Fraser) would venture to predict that he would find the 
 same thing true on this occasion. He hoped the great Protestant 
 majority of this country would not be lecl by hypocrisy and cant, 
 nor allow the ship of State to pass into the hands of any man 
 who was willing to give up opinions and convictions he had ex- 
 pressed in former days in order that he might gain possession of 
 the Treasury benches. (Loud cheers.)