^^:^. 
 
 
 IMAGE EVALUATION 
 TEST TARGET (MT-3) 
 
 I 
 
 A 
 
 {./ 
 
 .%i 
 
 
 ,^ 4l 
 
 
 ^O 
 
 1.0 
 
 I.I 
 
 y^lM |2.5 
 
 |5 ■^~ ■■■ 
 
 2.0 
 
 m 
 
 
 1.25 III . .4 ||,.6 
 
 
 ^ 
 
 6" 
 
 ► 
 
 <^ 
 
 
 Photographic 
 
 Sciences 
 
 Corporation 
 
 23 WEST MAIN STREET 
 
 WEBSTER, N.Y. 14580 
 
 (716) 872-4503 
 

 
 CIHM/ICMH 
 
 Microfiche 
 
 Series. 
 
 CIHM/ICIVIH 
 Collection de 
 microfiches. 
 
 Canadian Institute for Historical IVIicroreproductions / Institut Canadian de microreproductions historiques 
 
Technical and Bibliographic Notes/Notes techniques et bibiiographiques 
 
 The Institute has attempted to obtain the best 
 original copy available for filming. Features of this 
 copy which may be bibliographically unique, 
 which may alter any of the images in the 
 reproduction, or which may significantly change 
 the usual method of filming, are checked below. 
 
 D 
 
 D 
 
 D 
 D 
 
 D 
 D 
 
 D 
 
 D 
 
 Coloured covers/ 
 Couverture de couleur 
 
 I I Covers damaged/ 
 
 Couverture endommagde 
 
 Covers restored and/or laminated/ 
 Couverture restaur6e et/ou pellicul6e 
 
 I I Cover title missing/ 
 
 Le titre de couverture manque 
 
 Coloureu maps/ 
 
 Cartes g6ographiques en couleur 
 
 Coloured ink (i.e. other than blue or black)/ 
 Encre de couleur (i.e. autre que bleue ou noire) 
 
 I I Coloured plates and/or illustrations/ 
 
 Planches et/ou illustrations en couleur 
 
 Bound with other material/ 
 Reli6 avec d'autres documents 
 
 Tight binding may cause shadows or distortion 
 along interior margin/ 
 
 Lareliure serrde peut causer de I'ombre ou de la 
 distortion le long de la marge int^rieure 
 
 Blank leaves added during restoration may 
 appear within the text. Whenever possible, these 
 have been omitted from filming/ 
 II se peut que certaines pages blanches ajoutdes 
 lors d'une restauration apparaissent dans le texte, 
 mais, lorsque cela 6tait possible, ces pages n'ont 
 pas 6t6 film^es. 
 
 Additional comments:/ 
 Commentaires suppl^mentaires; 
 
 The 
 to th 
 
 L'Institut a microfilm^ le meilleur exemplaire 
 qu'il lui a 6t6 possible de se procurer. Les details 
 de cet exemplaire qui sont peut-dtre uniques du 
 point de vue bibliographique, qui peuvent modifier 
 une image reproduite, ou qui peuvent exiger une 
 modification dans la methods normale de filmage 
 sont indiquds ci-dessous. 
 
 □ Coloured pages/ 
 Pages de couleur 
 
 □ Pages damaged/ 
 Pages endommagdes 
 
 n Pages restored and/or laminated/ 
 Pages restaur6es et/ou pellicul6es 
 
 r~~1/^ages discoloured, stained or foxed/ 
 Lkf Pages ddcolordes, tachet6es ou piqudes 
 
 pn^ages detached/ 
 I *-i Pages ddtachdes 
 
 rri Showthrough/ 
 Li=r Transparence 
 
 I I Quality of print varies/ 
 
 The 
 poss 
 of th 
 filmi 
 
 Orig 
 begi 
 the I 
 sion, 
 othe 
 first 
 sion, 
 or ill 
 
 D 
 
 Qualitd indgale de I'impression 
 
 Includes supplementary material/ 
 Comprend du material suppldmentaire 
 
 Only edition available/ 
 Seule Edition disponible 
 
 The 
 shall 
 TINl 
 whic 
 
 Map 
 diffe 
 entir 
 begii 
 right 
 requ 
 metl 
 
 Pages wholly or partially obscured by errata 
 slips, tissues, etc., have been refilmed to 
 ensure the best possible image/ 
 Les pages totalement ou partietlement 
 obscurcies par un feuillet d'errata, une pelure, 
 etc., ont 6t6 filmdes d nouveau de fapon d 
 obtenir la meilleure image possible. 
 
 This item is filmed at the reduction ratio checked below/ 
 
 Ce document est film6 au taux de reduction indiqu6 ci-dessous. 
 
 10X 
 
 14X 
 
 18X 
 
 22X 
 
 26X 
 
 30X 
 
 7 — rrn^ n 
 
 12X 
 
 16X 
 
 20X 
 
 24X 
 
 28X 
 
 32X 
 
re 
 
 Idtails 
 es du 
 modifier 
 er une 
 Filmage 
 
 ^es 
 
 The copy filmed here has been reproduced thanks 
 to the generosity of: 
 
 Library of the Public 
 Archives of Canada 
 
 The images appearing here are the best quality 
 possible considering the condition and legibility 
 of the original copy and in keeping with the 
 filming contract specificaticns. 
 
 Original copies in printed paper covers are filmed 
 beginning with the front cover and ending on 
 the last page with a printed or illustrated impres- 
 sion, or the back cover when appropriate. All 
 other original copies are filmed beginning on the 
 first page with a printed or illustrated impres- 
 sion, and ending on the last page with a printed 
 or illustrated impression. 
 
 The last recorded frame on each microfiche 
 shall contain the symbol -^- (meaning "CON- 
 TINUED"), or the symbol y (meaning "END"), 
 whichever applies. 
 
 Maps, plates, charts, etc., may be filmed at 
 different reduction ratios. Those too large to be 
 entirely included in one exposure are filmed 
 beginning in the upper left hand corner, left to 
 right and top to bottom, as many frames as 
 required. The following diagrams illustrate the 
 method: 
 
 L'exemplaire fiimA fut reproduit grAce A la 
 gAntrositi de: 
 
 La bibiiothdque des Archives 
 publiques du Canada 
 
 Les images suivantes ont 6t6 reproduites avec le 
 plus grand soin, compte tenu de la condition et 
 de la netteti de l'exemplaire film6, et en 
 conformity avec les conditions du contrat de 
 filmage. 
 
 Les exemplaires originaux dont la couverture en 
 papier est imprim6e sont filmds en commenpant 
 par le premier plat et en terminant solt par la 
 dernlAre page qui comporte une empreinte 
 d'impression ou d'illustration, soit par le second 
 plat, selon le cas. Tous les autres exemplaires 
 originaux sont filmte en commenpant par la 
 premidre page qui comporte une empreinte 
 d'impression ou d'illustration et en terminant par 
 la dernidre page qui comporte une telle 
 empreinte. 
 
 Un des symboles suivants apparaitra sur la 
 dernidre image de cheque microfiche, selon le 
 cas: le symbols ~^ signifie "A SUIVRE ", le 
 symbols V signifie "FIN". 
 
 Les cartes, planches, tableaux, etc., peuvent dtre 
 filmds d des taux de reduction diffdrents. 
 Lorsque le document est trop grand pour dtre 
 reproduit en un seul clich6, 11 est filmd A partir 
 de Tangle supdrieur gauche, de gauche d droite, 
 et de haut en bas, en prenant le nombre 
 d'images n6cessaire. Les diagrammes suivants 
 illustrent la mAthode. 
 
 / errata 
 id to 
 
 It 
 
 le pelure, 
 
 9on d 
 
 n 
 
 1 
 
 2 
 
 3 
 
 32X 
 
 1 
 
 2 
 
 3 
 
 4 
 
 S 
 
 6 
 
^' 
 
 J :. 
 
 |c ^' 
 
 .',? 
 
,a^ 
 
 '^ 
 
 
 ^0- 
 
 C<v 
 
 ^ly 
 
 ^H 
 
 
 "^6 
 
 ■'-'rv. 
 
 ■^ 
 
 THE 
 
 HUDSON'S BAY 
 
 COMPANY. 
 
 ^ M 
 
 f 
 
 ,•* 
 
 
 ,- J 
 
 /5^ 
 
 lb. 
 
 WHAT IS IT1> 
 
 " Facts are chiels that winna ding, 
 And dannia be disputed," 
 
 LONDON: 
 A. H. BAILY & CO., ROYAL EXCHANGE BUTLDTNGS, 
 
 CORNHILL. 
 
 1864. 
 
 Price One Shilling, 
 
 X 
 
 / 
 
LONDON : 
 Phinted by a, H. Bau-y & Co.. 3. Royal Exchange BpucNoe. 
 
 
 
 j:. c. 
 
 ;S'<-'^.'^, 
 
INTRODUCTION 
 
 
 The object of this pamphlet is to pUicc before the English 
 public, and the new Shareholders in the Hudson's Bay Com- 
 pany, a plain statement of facts, founded on evidence brought 
 before a Parliamentary Committee, and subsequent correspon- 
 dence between the Canadian Executive and the Imperial 
 Government. We think it will be shown : — 
 
 1st. That the territory claimed by the Hudson's Bay 
 Company is widely different from that derived under its 
 Charter, granted by Charles the Second. 
 
 2nd. That Canada has never admitted the exclimve right 
 of the Hudson's Bay Company to any portion of the 
 territory claimed under their Charter. 
 
 3rd. That although Crown Lawyers have given opinions 
 favourable to the territorial rights of the Company, it 
 has never been submitted to a oompetent tribunal, nor 
 tried in the only way Englishmen are accustomed to 
 determine such questions. 
 
 4th. That the one hundred million acres of fertile land, 
 with the vision of which Mr. Heath dazzled the imagi- 
 nation of the Shareholders, are a myth. 
 
 Not one Englishman in a thousand conversant with the 
 ordinary institutions of his country knows anything about the 
 
 B 2 
 
 i 1 ) ' > ' 
 
 » 1 • ' 
 
IV 
 
 Hudson's Bay Company, beyond the ftict of the Company 
 dealing in furs ; — and the privileges it has enjoyed were 
 long a matter of indilTerence, until the abolition of mono- 
 polies became a necessity of the age. 
 
 A few particulars on this head may be useful in forming 
 opinions on the evidence contained in this pamphlet. The 
 Company is held in parts or shares, their actual business 
 being confined to trading in furs, and in barter with the 
 Indians — 40 per cent, of the projits helonging'to the partners in 
 America. The only property possessed by the Company con- 
 sists of squatting stations, materials, dec, spread over a large 
 tract of wild country never yet brought under cultivation, 
 and only deriving any value when used in the fur trade. It 
 may be that the balance of capital not actually required in 
 the purchase from the old Company (in fact, the present share- 
 holders' money) will yield some return of interest, but this 
 can only be known when the hidden mysteries of Fenchurch 
 Street are revealed in the shape of a balance sheet. What 
 arrangements the new Company has made with its partners 
 abroad is not known, but it is evident their interests cannot 
 be compromised, and that, without the services of such partners 
 in keeping up a supply of furs, there would be no dividends. 
 
 The simple question, apart from the mere operations of a 
 trading Company possessing no sovereign jurisdiction, is, 
 whether it is possible that a Company acting independently of 
 the Canadian Government, and without any direct responsibility 
 towards the British Crown, can be entrusted with the settle- 
 ment of questions in which both Canada and the British 
 public are vitally concerned? To colonize or to utilize 
 the vast territory lying between Canada and the Kocky 
 
 I 
 
 ■} 
 ? 
 
 I 
 
 
 "< 
 I'l 
 
 ,' t • • • • 
 
 « t 
 
 • • • • . • 
 
 •...•.- ; ... 
 
II 
 
 Tlie 
 
 Mou„ta,„. will re.i«i..c „ l,„ye outluy of nm.,j, a,„l it 
 can only be done l,y the united aotion of the Canu.lian 
 and the English Government.. Wc leave the shavehoKk™ 
 in the new Company to draw theii- own eonclu^ion. u,,on 
 the d«e.-epaney between the .tatemonts in this pan.j.hlet 
 and the one made by the Chairman of the Iuten>ational 
 F.nanoial Society. If shareholders imagine that our Govorn- 
 yi « prepared to foist a job on the eountry, we 
 hn,k they will find themselves mistaken; and it is well 
 known that the Canadian Covcrnment is as hostile to the 
 claims of the Hudson's Bay Company as they have ever 
 been, regarding it very justly in the light of an odious 
 monopoly, injurious to tlie best interests of our North 
 Aniencan Colonial Possessions, 
 
 Lcmnuji, IfAv, 1864. 
 
TIJE 
 
 HUDSON'S J3AY COMPANY, 
 
 On tlie inoniiiig ol'tlic third ol'Jiily of lust year 
 it was aniiouiKXHl in joyful tcmis, tliroun-liout the 
 lenoth and breadth of the land, that the last of 
 our great monopolies was at an end, and that a 
 new era in the progress of the British nation had 
 begun. 
 
 This turns out to have been an entire mistake ; 
 the monopoly, with all its baneful hilluenee, exists 
 as perfect as ever; the '^ transaction " was but a 
 successful stroke of that policy so characteristic 
 of the dealings of the Hudson's Bay Company, viz., 
 that of drawing their opponents into a few heads, 
 and then purcliasing their silence by admitting 
 them to a share of the spoil. The whole fur- 
 trading interests of Canada merged in the North- 
 West Company of Montreal, and they in turn, 
 represented by Messrs. Elhce and theMcGilHvrays', 
 coalesced with the Hudson's Bay Company in 
 1821, and left Canada the victim. The " trans- 
 
2 
 
 action " of hist vcav diliers iu this ])}irtit;nhir : it 
 
 •> J. 
 
 only (Inpod a portion of the liiitiwh pnhlic, hut 
 it coukl not have ))oon succosst'ully cil'ectod, oxc(.'i)t 
 hy the aid of i)ai'tios >vhoni the puhlic believed 
 re|)vcscnted tlie interests of Canada. 
 
 These parties comprised, 1st, the late agent of 
 the North-West Transit Company — a Company 
 incorporated by tlu* Canadian Parliiiment with 
 similar powers over the Noi'th-West Territory to 
 those exercised by the Hudson's Lay Company ; 
 2nd, the President of the Grand Trunk Eaihvay 
 of Canada ; and 8rd, the ex-Governor-General of 
 Canada. 
 
 We will d(!al with them in the order in which 
 they appear, and take first the Apjent of the North- 
 West Transit Company. In 1858 the Parliament 
 of Canada granted a Charter of Incorporation to 
 this Company, empowering them, besides trading 
 in furs, tallow, buffalo meat, hides, tish oil, and 
 other articles of connnerce, to improve and render 
 navigable the various channels of water-com- 
 munication, to construct links of roads, tramways, 
 and railways between navigable lakes and rivers, 
 so as to provide facilities for transport from the 
 shores of Lake Superior to Frazer liiver, &c., kc. 
 The Eoard of Directors comprised many of the 
 leading men in Canada ; they appointed a firm 
 in London as their Agents for the purpose of 
 raising the necessary capital, and furnished them 
 with every possible information as to the resources 
 of the North-West Territory. The head of the 
 
 I 
 
\ 
 
 ihir : it 
 
 ic, but 
 
 except 
 
 >c'lieved 
 
 gent ol' 
 inipaiiy 
 t \vitli 
 iiovy to 
 iipaiiy ; 
 lailway 
 eral of 
 
 which 
 North- 
 iameiit 
 tiou to 
 radiiig 
 1, and 
 ender 
 •-corn- 
 ways, 
 ivers, 
 n the 
 ., Sec, 
 f the 
 firm 
 se of 
 them 
 lurces 
 : the 
 
 J. 
 
 i 
 
 
 3 
 
 ilrm of these London Agents ht^cMinic last year ii 
 Director of the International Financial Society, 
 and forms one of tlie connecting link between 
 that Society and the Hudson's l>ay Company. 
 2nd. In 18(U, a gentU.'man, well-laiown in con- 
 . nexion with English railways, became President 
 of the (rrand Trunk liailway of Canada. lie 
 had no sooner entered upon his ollice, than he 
 was desired by the Canadian people to lend 
 his powerful aid in ojxarhig up the Nortli- 
 West Territory. Undoubtedly, no nnin ever be- 
 fore possessed such power to make or mar the 
 project. lie was a man of indomitable per- 
 severance. He was on intimate relations with, 
 and possessed the conlidence of, the Colonial 
 Minister. He was President of a railwav running 
 from the Gulf of St. Lawrence for 1,000 miles 
 direct to the borders of the great North-West. 
 He possessed the confidence of and represented 
 an English proprietory of 1:15,000,000, whose 
 interests would be immensely benellted by the 
 opening up for settlement of the country in ques- 
 tion. He had also the promise of the cordial 
 sui)port of tiie British North American Govern- 
 ments. He was therefore in a position to have 
 exacted almost any terms from the Hudson's Bay 
 Company. He complied with the request made 
 to him, and enlisted the co-operation of a number 
 of gentlemen of the highest position and influence 
 in London, who addressed the follow^ing letter to 
 the Colonial Minister : — 
 
4 
 
 Lo'SDO^, 5t/t Jul t/, lSt)2. 
 Mv Lord, 
 
 The growing interest felt by the commercial world in 
 fii'itisli Columbia, iind in the communications which commerce, 
 as well as considerations of emi)ire, require across the continent 
 of British North America, renders it, as it appears to us, oppor- 
 tune and desirable for some adequate organization to aj>ply itself, 
 under the sanction of Government, to the task of providing a 
 telegraphic service, and of securing the means of travelling with 
 regulnrity to the British territory on the Pacific. 
 
 (Jounoctcd with a country so new and so vast, and as to which 
 so little is popularly known, such an enterprise could only hop*- 
 for Hiicce.ss in the event of its bcirg undertaken with the full 
 apin'obation and support of Government. 
 
 As a preliniinory to any practicnl discussion of the question, 
 it is desirable to ascertain how iar Her Majesty's Government 
 recognise the importance and desirability of such an enterju'ise 
 to be placed in proper hands, and also how far assistance would 
 be given to aid in its prosecution. 
 
 Parliament is naturally averse to the increase of the national 
 biirdens^ and it ma;; be that a money grant might be out of the 
 question ; but without adding to the expenditure of the country, 
 there are large resources available in the shape of territory. 
 Would, therefore, the Government, if approving such an attempt, 
 be ready to givuit to any sound and sufficient company a consi- 
 derable tract of Lmd in aid to the construction of the means of 
 communication by telegraph, and the Provision of the means of 
 transit across the continent ? 
 
 Knowing the interest which Your Grace feels in the progress 
 of the P>ritish em])ire in North America, we do not hesitate thus 
 to call attention to the subject. 
 
 We have, &c., 
 (Signed) Thomas Barino. 
 
 Geo. Caijr Glyn. 
 K. D. Hodgson. 
 Geo. G. Glyn. 
 It. W. Crawfohd. 
 William (Jhapman. 
 To His Grace the Duke of Ne-\vcastle, K.G. 
 ik,c. I'vrc. &c. 
 
 >ik 
 
 m 
 
 M 
 
I, 18(12. 
 
 I world ill 
 joiiiinerce, 
 continent 
 us, oppor- 
 »ply itself, 
 oviding a 
 lling with 
 
 to which 
 Duly hope 
 I the full 
 
 question, 
 veiinnent 
 .'nterpri^e 
 ice would 
 
 I national 
 ut of the 
 
 country, 
 territory. 
 
 iittonipt, 
 
 a consi- 
 
 means of 
 
 means of 
 
 progress 
 ;ate thus 
 
 JC. 
 
 LYN. 
 
 ON. 
 
 '. 
 
 \MAN. 
 
 I 
 
 Tlu'V luul several iiiterviews 'with His (rraee, 
 and submitted a practical pro])ositioii for oju-iiiii*;' 
 tiie country 1)y road and telegraph. The Colonial 
 Minister desired them to see and obtain, If pos- 
 sible, the friendly co-0])eration of the Hudson's 
 Bay Company. 
 
 A letter was addressed to the Company by 
 direction of the Duke of Newcastle on the 21st 
 NoYcmbcr, 1802, stating that it was desirable that 
 they should arrange an interview with Mr. Thomas 
 Baring or Mr. Edward Watldn. 
 
 They did so, Imt it was found that Company 
 were not disposed to reorder any facilities at all 
 commensurate with such a laudable undertaking. 
 Tt was therefore thought desirable that a little 
 ventilation should be given to the claims set up, 
 and the obstructions given by the Hudson's Bay 
 (bmpany. This was tried and found eminently 
 successful. 
 
 On the 8th of December, 18G2, Messrs. Sicotte 
 and Howland, two Members of the Canadian 
 Orovernment, and IMessrs. Glyn, Chapman, New- 
 marsh, Benson, and Watkin, held a meeting at No. 
 07, Lombard Street, for the purpose of arranging 
 the conditions on whicli a company should be 
 formed for cai'i'^ing out tlie construction of a road 
 and telegraph from Lake Superior to the Pacilic. 
 Tn tlie second paragraph of the Memorandum 
 drawn up, it was agreed, — 
 
 2. That similar rights and jtrivilcgos as were granted to the 
 " North -West Transit Company," and to others, by the Canadian 
 raiTianionl, Ix secured t<> the ('unip<uiy proposed to be fbnned. 
 
Memorandum. — It would bu desirable, if fair terms can be 
 agreed, that the property and rights of the Transit 
 Company, or others, be incorporated with those of 
 the new company, thereby securing a fair protection to 
 any existing interests, and unity of action in Canada. 
 
 Unfortunately, whilst these negociations were 
 pending, the International Financial Society was 
 formed, and amongst its Directors ranked the 
 name of the senior partner of the former Agents 
 of the North-West Transit Company ; and it is a 
 remarliable fact that shortly after the formation of 
 the " International," the President of the Grand 
 Trunk Eailway, and the late Agent of the North- 
 West Transit Company, dispensed with the co- 
 operation of the Canadian Government and the 
 North-West Transit Company or any other exist- 
 ing interest in Canada, and also of those gentlemen 
 of influence and high position in this country who 
 had been acting with them up to that time, 
 and, by themselves, negociated the "transaction," 
 the conclusion of which was conveved to the Duke 
 of Newcastle in the following letter : — 
 
 Hudson's Bay House, London, 
 
 My Lord Duke, loth June, 18G3. 
 
 With reference to Mr. Elliott's letter of the 21st of 
 November last, expressing Your Grace's desire that this Board 
 should place itself in communication with Mr. Edward Watkin, 
 with a view to the consideration of proposals for the purchase 
 of the whole of the rights of the Hudson's Bay Company, I 
 have now the honour to inform Your Grace, that in compliance 
 with Your Grace's suggestions, terms have been agreed upon, by 
 which the whole interests of the Hudson's Bay Company are to 
 be transferred to the parties represented by Mr. Edward Watkin. 
 
 I have, &c., 
 (Signed) H. H. Beren.s, Governor. 
 
 His Grace the Duke of Newcastle, K.G. 
 <ke. &c. iSco. 
 
 I 
 
 I 
 
 I 
 
 t 
 I 
 
 i 
 
 
srnis ciiii be 
 ihe Transit 
 h tliose of 
 lotectioii to 
 in Canada. 
 
 )iis were 
 3iety was 
 iked the 
 r Agents 
 d it is a 
 Liation of 
 le Grand 
 e Nortli- 
 
 tlie co- 
 and tlie 
 ler exist- 
 ntlemen 
 itry wlio 
 it time, 
 action," 
 
 le Duke 
 
 iONDON, 
 
 le 21st of 
 lis Board 
 
 Watkin, 
 I purchase 
 
 apany, I 
 
 Impliance 
 
 jupon, by 
 
 ly are to 
 
 I Watkin. 
 
 3rnor. 
 
 I Which gave to the Hudson's Bay Company Share- 
 holders .£500,000 more than their Shares were 
 worth in the market at that time, as shown in 
 I the following statement, w^liich appeared in the 
 I "money article " of the Times on the 18tli June 
 last : — 
 
 f The International Financial Society have made arrangements 
 
 " for the purchase of the entire property and rights of the Hud- 
 son's Bay Company, giving the j)rice of £300 for every .£100 
 stock of that Company. Its total capital is £500,000, and the 
 amount of the purchase will therefore be £1,500,000. A deposit 
 of £100,000 has already been paid, and the remainder is to be 
 met on the 1st of July next, or interesl; thereon is to be allowed 
 to the Hudson's Bay proprietors at the rate of 5 per cent. Some 
 considerable time back the price of Hudson's Bay stock was 
 250, but during the last five years it has been about 200. The 
 transaction has been negociated by parties connected with 
 Canadian interests, and annexed is the circular addressed to the 
 Hudson Bay stockholders, inviting their acquiescence in it, and 
 to which an affirmative response seems, for the most part, to 
 have been promptly accorded. The number of proprietors of 
 Hudson's Bay stock is 285. 
 
 " Hudson's Bay House, London, 
 
 '^ June loth. 
 
 " Sir, 
 
 " An opportunity now offers to the proprietors for 
 disposing of their stock in this Company at the rate of £300 per 
 £100 stock ece July dividend. 
 
 " You are no doubt aware that for some years past the pi'ice 
 has ranged below £200. 
 
 •' The parties who are prepared to take the stock at the above 
 price have, it is understood, in view the extension of the opera- 
 tions of the Company to objects not heretofore contemplated, 
 and, as Members of the Committee of the Company, we, as well 
 as a large number of the principal proprietors, have already 
 assented to a sale of our stock upon the proposed terms. 
 
 " We have considered it right to stipulate that every pro- 
 
pi'ictor slmll liavt! the option uf disposing ol' l)is stock tit the 
 sainc piioo, and we have, tliorcfoic, tu request that you will 
 inform us, on or before the 22nd instant, whctlier you are dis- 
 posed to srll your stock at the ])iice we have njcutioneJ, and 
 sliouhl you determine to do so, you will be so good as to 
 sign and forward to us the accompanying letter, under cover, to 
 ' TJionias Fraser, Esq., Hudson's Bay House, London.' 
 '■' We are, Sir, your very obedient Servants, 
 
 " H. H. Beuens, Governor, 
 
 " Edward Ellice, Deputy-Governor. 
 
 " SKLKIliK. 
 
 " Pv. W. TliLLV. 
 
 " A. Matiiesox. 
 
 " Eden Colvile. 
 
 " KiKKJiAN D. Hodgson. 
 
 " George Lyall. 
 
 " rtlCIIARD r.ENYON." 
 
 On the second of July, 18G3, the Colonial 
 Mmister, m his speech in the House of Lords, 
 distinctly stated in reply to Lord Donoughmore 
 that the same body of gentlemen (Mr. Baring 
 and others) ^Yllo had long been in communica- 
 tion with him for opening up the country 
 by road and telegraph had become, through 
 the International Financial Society, the pur- 
 chasers of the interests of the Hudson's Bay 
 Company. The next day the prospectus of the 
 Hudson's Bay Company appeared "without the 
 names of any of the gentlemen before stated appear- 
 ing upon it. It therefore at once became evident 
 that the Colonial Minister had been labouriun- 
 under a false impression to use the mildest term. 
 
 3rd. The issuing of the prospectus inyiting the 
 public to subscribe for the new Hudson's Bay 
 
9 
 
 lU 
 
 
 
 Stock brings us to the partwliicli the ox-Govenior- 
 Gciieral of Canada, and now Governor of the 
 Hudson's Bay Company, has played in this 
 " transaction." 
 
 In 18rj7 the House of Commons appointed a 
 Select Committee "to consider the state of those 
 British Possessions in North America \Yhich are 
 under the administration of the Hudson's Bay 
 Company, or over which they possess a license 
 to trade." At this time the present Governor of 
 the Hudson's Bay Company was Governor-General 
 of Canada, and he called his Executive Council 
 together, and the result was that he sent over 
 the Chief Justice Sir Henry Draper to represent 
 " Canadian rights and interests " before that 
 Committee, and the following is a copy of the 
 instructions given to him : — 
 
 Letter from E. A. Meredith, E,s<[., to the Hox. Chief 
 Justice Draper, C.B. 
 
 Secretary's Office, Toronto, 
 
 Sir, •20th February, 1857. 
 
 I have the honour, by comniaiKl of His Excellency the 
 Governor-Geneva], to communicate to you hereby his Excel- 
 lency's instructionsfor your guidance in connexion with your 
 mission to Enghxntl as the special agent appointed to rei)resent 
 Canadian rights and interests before the proposed Committee of 
 the House of Conmions, on the subject of the Hudson's Bay 
 Territory. 
 
 I am to premise, however, that as it is imi)ossible to antici- 
 pate the nature of the evidence that may be taken, or the 
 conchision that may be arrived at by the Committee, or the 
 course wliich Parliament or Her Majesty's Government may 
 think proper to adopt on tlie report of tlio Committee, it is not 
 
10 
 
 in His Excellency's power to convey to yon iit pvcsinit any in- 
 strnctions of a precise or definite character. 
 
 His Excellency has, liowevxT, entire confidence in your know- 
 ledge and discretion, and ho has the more readily entrusted this 
 imi)ortant mission to you, inasmueli as your high position in 
 the colony removes you from all the ordinary influences of local 
 or party consideration. 
 
 Immediately on your arrival in London you will place your- 
 self in connnunication with the Right Honourable the Secretaiy 
 of State for the Colonies (to whom these instructions have been 
 communicated), and as soon as any Parliamentary Committee 
 on the subject of the Hudson's Bay Comjtany or Territory is 
 constituted, yoii will take steps for offering to afford all infor- 
 mation in your power relating to the intercists or claims of 
 Canada. 
 
 You will consider it as a part of your duty to watch over 
 those interests by correcting any erroneous impressions, and 
 by bringing forward any claims of a legal or equitable kind 
 which this province may possess on account of its territorial 
 position or past histoiy. 
 
 You will ixot consider yourself as authorized to conclude any 
 negociation, or to assent to any definite [>lan of settlement affect- 
 ing Canada, without reporting the particulars of the same, and 
 your own views thereon, to His Excellency in Council. 
 
 His Excellency has full and complete confidence in the justice 
 and consideration of Her Majesty's Government, and he is sure 
 that the interests and feelings of Canada will be consulted so 
 far as is consistent with right and justice. The people of 
 Canada desire nothing more. 
 
 His Excellency feels it particularly necessary that the im- 
 portance of securing the North-West Territory against the 
 sudden and unaiithorized influx of immigration from the United 
 States should be strongly pressed. He feai's that the continued 
 vacancy of this great tract, with a boundary not marked on the 
 soil itself, may lead to future loss and injury both to England 
 and Canada. He wishes you to urge the expediency of marking 
 out the limits, and so protecting the frontier of the lands above 
 Lake Superior, about the Red River, and from thence to the 
 Pacific, as effectually to secure them against violent seizure or 
 
 
 1'" '1 
 
11 
 
 of 
 
 irregular settlement until the inlvancing tide of emigrants from 
 Cauiida and the United Kingdom may fairly flow into tliem, 
 and occupy them as sulyecis of the Queen, ou behalf of the 
 British empire. 
 
 With those objects in view, it is especially important that 
 Her Majesty's Government should guard any renewal of a 
 license of occupation (should such be determined on), or any 
 recognition of rights by the Conipany, by such stipulations as 
 will cause such license or such rights not to iuterforo with the 
 fair and legitimate occui)ation of tracts adajtted for settlement. 
 
 It is unnecessary, of course, to urge in any way the future im- 
 portance of Vancouver's Island as the key to all British Noi-th 
 America on the side of the Pacific, situated as it is between the 
 extensive seaboard of Russian America and the vast territory 
 in the hands of the United States. 
 
 His Excellency cannot foresee the course which a Committee 
 of the House of Conimons may see fit to ])ursue in the proposed 
 inquiiy, or determine beforehand on what points evidence may 
 be required. 
 
 At any moment, however. His Excellency will be ready to 
 attend to your suggestions, and supply such information, either 
 by documentary evidence, or by witnesses from Canada, as you 
 may think necessary and he may be able to send over. 
 
 You will, of course, act u2)on such further instructions as may 
 
 from time to time be conveyed to you by His Excellency's 
 
 direction. 
 
 I have, <fec., 
 
 (Signed) E. A. Meredith, 
 
 Assistant Secretary. 
 
 Then follows copy of the Letter addressed by 
 Mr. Chief Justice Draper to Her Majesty's Secre- 
 tary of State for the Colonies, bearing date 6th 
 May, 1857, together with a Copy of the Memo- 
 randum therein referred to : — 
 
 33, Spring Gardens, 
 Sir, Qth May, 1857. 
 
 In the last interview with which you favoured me, I 
 took occasion to advert to the question of boundary between 
 
 
 
12 
 
 Canada and the Hudson's Hay Territory, as ono which roqnirnd 
 to bo sottled as a neccssniy prcliinitiary to many (»thcr very 
 iiiiportant inciuirics involved in tho matters subniitted to a 
 Commiitoc of tlio last Ifonst'of r/ominon^, and, as I understood, 
 to bo nj^ain submitted to the now Parliament. 
 
 I alluded to th(! difleroiice between the views of tho Hudson's 
 T'ny C*ompuiiy, as exi)resscd in former times, and those which 
 are now, and have been within the hist forty years, advanced 
 by them on this point ; and I stated my readiness to submit 
 a memorandum to you in relation thereto, which you were 
 pleased to sicfuifV vour readiness to receive and consider. 
 
 That JNIcniorandum I have now tho honour to enclose. As 
 the construction of tho language of tho charter, and tho extent 
 of the territory purporting to be granted, are involved, it may Ijo 
 considered desirable that tho mattin' should bo referred to the 
 Judicial Committee of tho Privy Council. In this event, I 
 venture to request that counsel on the part of the Pi'ovince may 
 bo permitted to attend to watch the argument, and, if it be 
 deemed necessary, that they may be heard in support of those 
 views which more immediately affect the intei'ests of Canada. 
 
 I have suggested a reference to the Judicial Committee, 
 because I think its opinion would command tho ready acqui- 
 escence of the inhabitants of Canada as to their legal rights, and 
 because I believe they entertain a very strong opinion that a 
 considerable portion of tho territory occupied or claimed by 
 the Hudson's Bay Comjmny will bo found to lie within the 
 proper limits of that Province. 
 
 Whether it would be desirable to sever this from the more 
 general cpiestion of tho legality and validity of the charter, is a 
 matter I should desire to leave for your consideration, but in 
 any event I think it expedient that counsel should be permitted 
 to attend to watch the interests of the Province. 
 
 I have, &c., 
 
 (Signed) Wm. H. Draper. 
 
 The Right Hon. H. Labouchere, 
 &c. &c. &c. 
 
 I 
 
 The Memorandum refen-ed to will be found in 
 
13 
 
 roqnirnd 
 lev very 
 L'd to a 
 lerstood, 
 
 Tudson's 
 ■ie which 
 idviinccd 
 ) submit 
 ou were 
 r. 
 
 ose. As 
 10 I'xtont 
 t may Ijo 
 d to the 
 event, I 
 ince may 
 , if it be 
 I of those 
 mada. 
 mmittee, 
 y acqui- 
 itH, and 
 that a 
 nod by 
 tin tlio 
 
 le move 
 :'ter, is a 
 I, but in 
 irmitted 
 
 APER. 
 
 
 md in 
 
 the Parliamentary Report on the Hudson's Bay 
 Company, page 374, and commences as follows : — 
 
 It is not proposed at present to discuss the validity of the 
 charter of the Hudson's Bay Company. A careful perusal of 
 it will suggest many doubts wliether it 1)0 not altogether void. 
 But assuming that it may bo sustainable for every or for any of 
 the purposes for which it was intended, and for the moment 
 conceding that the indefinite description of the territory pur- 
 porting to bo granted does not vitiate tlie grant, there is a 
 question as to the limits of that territory in which the province 
 of Canada is deeply interested. 
 
 The parts of the charter bearing on this question 
 are as follow : — 
 
 1. "AH the lands and territories iipon. the countries, coasts, 
 and confines of the seas, bays, lakes, rivers, creeks, and sounds 
 aforesaid " (stated in a preceding part to be tlioso which lie within 
 the entrance of the straits commonlv called Hudson's Straits, 
 in whatsoever latitude such bays, &c., should be), " that are not 
 already actually possessed by or granted to any oi our subjects, 
 or possessed l)y the subjects of any other Christian prince or 
 state, with the fishing of all sorts of fisli, whales, sturgeons, and 
 all other royal fishes in the seas, bays, inlets, and rivers within 
 the premises ; and the fish therein taken, together with the 
 royalty of the sea upon the coasts within the limits aforesaid, 
 and all mines royal, as well discovered as not discovered, of 
 gold, silver, gems, and precious stones, to be found or disco v(;red 
 within the territories, limits, and places aforesaid ; and that 
 the said land be from henceforth reckoned and reputed as one 
 of our plantations or colonies in America, called liupert's Land. 
 And, further, wo do by these presents, for us, our heirs and 
 successors, make, create, and constitute the said Governor and 
 Company for the time being, and their successors, the true and 
 absolute lords and proprietors of the same territory, limits, and 
 places aforesaid, and of all other the premises hereby granted 
 as aforesaid, with their and every of their rights, members, 
 jurisdictions, prerogatives, royalties, and appurtenances what- 
 soever, to them the said Governor and Company, and their 
 successors for ever, to be holden. of us, our heirs and successor, 
 
 C 2 
 
14 
 
 as of our manor of East Grocnwich, in our county of Kent, in 
 free and common soccafjc" 
 
 And, 2. " And fiirtlioniu)ro, wo do fjriint unto tlio said 
 GoA'crnor and Coni})any and tlu^ir successors, that they and 
 their successors, and their factors, servants, and agents, f»)r thoni 
 and on their l)ehalf, and n<»t otlierwisc, shall for over hereafter 
 luive, use, and enjoy, not only the whole, entire, and only trade 
 and traflio, and the whole, entire, and only liberty, use, and 
 privilege of trading and trafficking to and from the territory, 
 limits, places aforesaid, but also the whole and entire trade and 
 traffic to and from all havens, bays, creeks, rivers, lakes, and 
 seas into which they shall find entrance or passage, by water 
 or land, out of the territoi'ies, limits, or places aforesaid, and to 
 and with :ill the natives and people inhabiting within the terri- 
 tories, limits, and places aforesaid, and to and with all other 
 nations inhabiting any of the coast adjacent to the said territories, 
 limits, and i)lnces which are not granted to any of our subjects." 
 
 The Memorandum then proceeds with the his- 
 tory of the early settlements of the English and 
 French in the North-West, of the disputes that 
 arose, owing to the encroachments of the French 
 on the shores of Hudson's Bay, and the memorials 
 which the English Company addressed to their 
 Government for protection, and concludes with a 
 paper relative to Canadian boundaries, all show- 
 ing most conclusively that neither by priority of 
 discovery, by settlement, nor by treaty, nay, nor 
 even by their own definition of the boundary 
 themselves, when they were called upon by the 
 Home Government to declare, have the Hudson's 
 Bay Company any right whatever to the valleys of 
 the Assiniboine, the Red River, and the Saskat- 
 chewan, and it concludes as follows : — 
 
 It is now becoming of infinite importance to the Province of 
 
 ! ( ! 
 
CauaJii to know accnmti'ly wlioro that boundary is. Plans 
 for iutcniiil comnmnioatiou connocted with .scliemcs for auri- 
 cultural .scttleniunts, and for oponiiig new fields for commercial 
 euter])ri.se, are all, more or Ichh, de])endeut upon or affected by 
 this question ; and it is to Her Majesty's Government alone 
 that the people of Canada can look for a solution of it. The 
 rights of the Hudson's Bay Company, whatever they may be, 
 are derived from the Crown ; the Province of Canada has its boun- 
 daries assigned by the same authority ; and now that it appears 
 to be indispensable* that thos(^ boundaries should be settled, and 
 the vruo limits of Canada ascertained, it is to Her Majesty's 
 Government that the Pj'ovince a])peals to take such steps as in 
 its wisdom arc deemed fitting or necosisary to have this iiii- 
 portant question set at rest. 
 
 On the 21st of May, 1857, Chief Justice Draper 
 was examined before the Committee of the House 
 of Commons, Mr. Labouchere in the Chair, and 
 gave the following evidence : — 
 
 Under what circumstances are you now visiting this country 1 
 I Avas requested by the Government of Canada, through the 
 medium of two of its members, to undertake the duty of coming 
 to Englan'd for the purpose of watching the investigation which, 
 it had been communicated to them, was to take place before a 
 Committee of the House of Commons, with the view of press- 
 ing, whenever I deemed it necessary for the interests cf the 
 Province, certain views which the Government of the Province 
 adopted in reference to their rights and interests in this 
 question. I had written instructions from the Government of 
 Canada to that cft'ect, which I can lay before the Committee if 
 they desire it. They were communicated to me through the 
 Provincial Secretary, and emanating from the Government, 
 giving mo general directions what I was to do. 
 
 In what manner do you conceive that the inquiry before this 
 Committee particularly affects the interests of Canada 1 — First, 
 very materially with regard to wdiat I conceive to be the true 
 boundary of Canada. I may say, secondly, with regard to the 
 deep interests that the people of Canada have that that territory 
 
16 
 
 Bhoulcl b(( miiintuincd iih u TJritisli poMsossiou. I may say, 
 thirdly, l)eciiusi' tlio poopki of C'uimda ln<»k to it iih a country 
 into wliich they ou^hl to liu i)c'i'iiiittcil to cxti-ml tluiir nottlu- 
 nunits. Thoso three points I think would iuvolvu all that I 
 couhl May u})on thiit .suhjeot. 
 
 Takin,i^ tho i)ointH in tho order in Avliich you have nieutionecl 
 tlicni, llrst of all, with rci-iard to the* (piestiou of the limits (jf 
 the province of ('iiniula, jire there any stati'mcnLs which you 
 wish to lay l»efore (he Coiuniittee «iu that he.id I — I should say 
 with regard to that point thut tho view which is taken, be it 
 fU)und or unsound, is this : at lavscnt it is understood by U8 
 that tho Hudson's iJay (Joni[»aiiy claim as u Ici^'al rif,'ht all tho 
 laiitl which is drained by any sti'cams, no matter how remote 
 Lhcir soiu'ces may be, which Jlow into either the Hudson's ]>ay 
 Straits or Hudson's I'av. Wo consider that that is au ill- 
 foimdcd claim, principally \\\)on this f,'round, that it is a claim 
 of which we can find no trace until a very modern ])eriod, and 
 is fpiito inconsistent with the claims advanced Ity that Couipnny 
 for nearly a century and a half. To save time, I have pre[)ared 
 extracts from various documents, emanatins,' from the Company 
 themselves, with ;some few other documents ; it is a jjaper 
 which it would save a great deal of Lime to put in, because I 
 can give every place Avherc the extracts are taken from, and 
 Iherefore reference t(^ tho original documents can always bo 
 had. 1 Avould also desire to say that in every extract which I 
 have made, I have made it u coni}>lete exti'act of all that is 
 stated on the question, and if it involves iinything favourable to 
 the Hudson's Bay Company, it will be found in those portions 
 of which I have made tho extract. 
 
 Ave those extracts made from documents which ai'e accessible 
 to everybody 1 — I believe I ma}'' say every one : — I think so j 
 easily accessible. 
 
 Sir John Pakington. — They specify, of course, in every case 
 what they are 1 — Yes. (The Witiiess delivered in the Paper. J 
 
 CnA.iRMAN. — Upon this (piestion of the boundaries of tho 
 colony, passing by for tho moment the question of legality, 
 will you have the goodness to state to the Committee what you 
 think it wo\dd bo for the interest of the colony of Canada to 
 do with regard to boundaries? — The tirst point which we 
 
17 
 
 so; 
 
 case 
 er.J 
 
 the 
 ility, 
 
 you 
 
 a to 
 
 we 
 
 Hh<MiM (losiro, I tliin' . with n\c,'iiril to tlio iiitenv-ls of Cauiuln, 
 NvuiiM bo to obtain u (letLTiniuiilitMi of wlmt oiii* b()iiiiilaiit;< 
 lU'tiiiilly iiro ; knowing that, wo iiro then in a bettor pcsitiou to 
 .state whothor wo tlo.siro to go boyoiul thoni, and if mo, for what 
 })ni|u).s(??4 unci to what oxtont. 
 
 Will you favour us with your Indiviibial o])iiiion of what it 
 wouUl b«! for the advantago of Canada to havo as lioutKhirics ; 
 how fiv you wouM extend tiieni ? — I Hhouhl myself pro|io.so, if 
 I were making a pro|)(ii*ino)i upon a i^ubjoet of tliat sort, tlial 
 Canada ahoid'l ha\'(i in the Ikvl plaeo a Ireo right to expUjro 
 and survey, in ovdw to ascertain the cap:il>iIitie.sof the country ; 
 in the second phico, to open oommunicatiou r<ja«ls in tlio manner 
 pursued in that country, by putting settlers on eacli. side of 
 them witli i\vv. grants, which, in the course of a conipar.itively 
 sliort p(^riod of time, I'aeilitates the intercourse Avith tliose 
 p)rtions of the country which liitherto Inivo been inaccessible, 
 or very dillicult of access by persons going to settle ; in tlu' next 
 place I should propos'O that Cana.da sliould b- pm-mitted to Ly 
 out townships, and that as fast as she did actually lay thelil 
 out and settle them, those portions of the territory so settled 
 should become incorporated with and form [)artof the province ; 
 I would limit it under all circuriistances and at any distant 
 period by the Kocky M<amtains ; I should neser dream of 
 pushing beyond them. 
 
 Do you think it (pute clear tliat the Judicial Committee 
 of the I'rivy Council would consider themselves authorized 
 to deal with that ipiestion if it were raised by the Crown, 
 and not by a lU'ivate individuall — lleasoning by analogy, 
 which is tho only way in Avhich I can do it, from what 
 they havo done in other cases, I shoidd answer that question 
 iiffirmatively. I liavc taken the trouble to get togetlier somo 
 few cases in which I think the same principle has been involved 
 where reference has been made for the Queen's information to 
 the Judicial Committee of the Priv^y Council. 
 
 Would that answer aj)ply o(pially to tho claiuis of tho 
 Company with regard to tho possession of territory and their 
 claims with regard to the exclusive license to trade? — With 
 regard to the exclusive license to trade (perhaps with the pre- 
 judice which lawyers havo iu favour of their owu p'\rticular 
 
18 
 
 i I 
 
 views), it always lias appoavetl to me that the statute of James 
 the 1st put an end to it. I never coukl understand how it 
 could be contended for in a court of law for an instant. The 
 exclusive license to trade appoai-s to me to be diametrically 
 contrary to the statute of James the 1st. The only question, I 
 think, which could arise upon it, speaking always individually, 
 would be whether or not that statute applied to a colony 
 or was conflned to a mono})oly within the mother country. 
 Assuming tliat it was conlined to a monopoly within the 
 mother country, it still, I think, would be open to a very fair 
 argument that it did a[»[)ly to this Company, because their 
 charter makes the treat of their government to be in England. 
 Tlie monopoly of tlie fur-trade, that is to say, the sale of all 
 that they im])ort from that country, is in their hands in 
 England ; it is a monopoly in England. 
 
 I believe both these (juestions have come before the con- 
 sideration of very eminent lawyers at different times, going- 
 back to the time of Lord Mansfield ; and many eminent men 
 since huxo had these very cpiestions referred to them 1 — Ther^^ 
 have been o)»inions given. I think that one opinion was given 
 by Lord Camden wlieii he was either Attorney or Solicitor- 
 General. 8ir Dudley Kyder ga\'e an opinion also. 
 
 Sir Joiix Pakington. — An opinion upon what? — Upon the 
 validity of this very charter. 
 
 Chaihman. — Are you accjuninted with Lord Mansfield's 
 0})ini(jn when he was Solicitor-General I — I may have a minute 
 of it, but I do not remember it at this n:oment. I think I have 
 a memorandum of all the opinions which have been given ; I 
 have no recollection of it if I have read it. I have memorandum 
 with regard to a variety of opinions and judicial decisions 
 which appear to me to be in one sense bearing ujiou the legal 
 question of the decision of the charter. 
 
 Wiii you have the goodness to i)ut it in I — I cannot put it 
 in in the form in which I have it at present, but I could fur- 
 nish it to you ; I can refer to particular portions of it. 
 
 Lawyers have expressed great doubts about these points? — 
 I believe there have Ijeen many opinions ; there were very 
 eminent oi)inions taken, which are all in print. I think there 
 were opinions taken both by the North -West Company and by 
 
 ill, 
 
Id 
 
 it 
 ur- 
 
 i^y 
 
 the Hudson's Bay Company. I have seen all'tliose opinions, 
 and I have read most of them in print, and I apprehend they 
 are very easily aecessibk\ 
 
 Are the Committee to understand that you Avoidd wish Loth 
 the questions, that of the monopoly of ti'ade, and that of the 
 exclusive possession of land, to be referred to the Jiidicial 
 Committee of the Privy Council, if it can so be done 1 — I my- 
 self should consider that that would put an end to all question, 
 and would settle all doulits by a decision one way or the other 
 with regard to a matter of that description unquestionably ; but 
 speaking for the Province of Canada, the point which I am 
 particularly desirous of urging upon your consideration, and of 
 limiting myself to as their representative, if I may so speak, 
 would be the decision of their territorial limits ; that is the 
 point in which they are most interested, but I do not see how 
 you can very well disi)ose of the one without inevitably raising 
 the other. 
 
 Mr. Christy. — The opinions taken by the Hudson's Bay 
 Company have never been printed ? — I cannot say whether 
 they have been printed. I can only say that I have read them. 
 The matter has been considered as a broad legal question upon 
 the validity of the charter, uud the different jtoints that I have 
 been speaking of, and it is that point to which I have had my 
 attention partially directed. I have a vai-iety of cases which I 
 think bear upon the subject, but it is rather in the nature of a 
 judicial argument ; it is more in the nature of a brief for 
 counsel to argue from than anything else ; it is not a document 
 drawn up in the slightest degree with the view of laying it 
 before this Committee. I wish that to be quite understood. 
 
 Lord John Russell. — When the opinion of Lord Grey was 
 known in Canada, was there a disposition to acquiesce in the 
 mode pointed out by Lord Grey 1 — I am not aware that the 
 matter was in any way discussed or considered in Canada at 
 that particular period ; I do not think it was. 
 
 Has it been since 1 — I cannot say that it has ; I am not able 
 to answer the question. 
 
 Chairman. — The Connnittee are desirous of being favoured 
 with your opinion upon the subjects which have been raised, 
 namely, the validity of the claims of the Hudson's Bay Com- 
 
i; i' 
 
 20 
 
 pany botli to trade and territory ; anil also the manner in 
 wliich yon may conceive that the legaUty of those claims may 
 be tested by some jndicial tribunal ; the Committee would be 
 much obliged to you if you would place your views upon this 
 subject before them, in any form which you may think expe- 
 dient 1 — I would desire to mention a fact which is, of course, 
 very well known to yourself, Sir, that on the Gth of May I 
 enclosed the paper which you have before you, accompanied by 
 a letter, which I presume I may refer to for this i)urposc, 
 namely, of stating that it contained a request that Her 
 i\Iajesty's Government would take upon themselves, in such 
 shape as they thought liest (but I suggested the Judicial Com- 
 mittee of the Privy Council), the decision of the question of 
 boundary between the jn'ovince of Canada and the territory of 
 the Hudson's Bay Company, and I asked that the province 
 might on their part have counsel attending to watch any 
 argument, if an argument was thought necessary, and that if 
 thought expedient they might also be permitted to take part 
 in it. That was the object of my request. I dare say for 
 A'cry many good reasons, I only received a reply to it last 
 night ; but in the meantime, imagining that that course must 
 sooner or later l.'e adopted, I have been preparing myself for 
 the possibility of the submission of a question of that character, 
 and of the larger question, if the larger question jnust neces- 
 sarily come iqj. What T have been tloing, therefore, has been 
 not at all with the view of presenting anything here, but with 
 the view of preparing myself to instruct counsel, if it became 
 necessary to instruct them, upon the different points of law 
 which I th()Ught would be involved. You ai"e asking nie, in 
 fact, to give the benefit of any little industry which I have exer- 
 cised for the benefit of the province of Canada to other parties. 
 
 The Committee have no wish to ask you to communicate 
 anything to them which you are not yourself desirous of 
 doing. — I merely desire to give that exi)lanation why I am 
 reluctant to furnish the information. Individually, I can have 
 no objection to state it. 
 
 Do you believe that the province of Canada would be dis- 
 posed themselves to raise the question of the validity of the 
 charter of the Hudson's Bay Company, either in whole or in 
 
n 
 
 part, before either the Judicial Committee of the Privy Coimcil, 
 or some other trilnuial 1 — T can best answer that question by 
 stating that I have exjjress instructions aiul autliority to retain 
 counsel to represent the province, whenever, in my judgment, 
 it is necessary. 
 
 Am I to understand that you conceive those instructions to 
 autliorize you, if you so think fit, not merely to ai)])oint 
 counsel to watch the proceedings which may be instituted by 
 the Crown or others, but yoiu'self to originate siich proceed- 
 ings ] — I have always considered, and I believe they consider 
 too, tliat the question of boundary is a question which it 
 rather rests witli Her Majesty's Government to raise and to 
 liave decided, because both parties chiim, the one under Acts 
 of Parliament and proclamations of the Crown, the other under 
 a charter from the Crown, and therefore it is a question of 
 which we should naturally suppose the Ci'own would take 
 Tq)on themselves to procure the reference and the decision. 
 Therefore, in asking permission to attend with counsel, it was 
 not under the idea that we should take out of the liands of 
 Jler Majesty's Government the conduct of the proceeding, but 
 that we should be permitted to watch, and if nc^cessary take 
 part in, the argument. At the same time, I would add, that 
 the latter portion of that statement is entirely my own sug- 
 gestion ; that my instructions do nob limit me to that course ; 
 and that if Her Majesty's Government were broadly to say 
 that Canada must appear before the Judicial Committee of the 
 Priv}'- Council for the purpose of determining her boundaries, 
 I apprehend that my instructions go the full length of enabling 
 me to do so. 
 
 Are the Committee to understand that you consider that if 
 it should be found either impossible or inexpedient on the 
 part of the Crown properly to institute jiulicial proceedings, 
 in order to try the validity of the charter of the Hudson's 
 Bay Company, you are authorized by the colony, on their part, 
 to institute such proceedings, in order, as you may think fit, 
 to try the validity of that charter, either wholly or in part? — 
 My instructions I conceive to give me a discretion ; I have 
 not made up my mind as to the mode in which I should 
 exercise it. 
 
Lord John Russell. — I initlevstand you to give a decifled 
 opinion as to the monopoly of trade ? — Upon that point I have 
 never entertained a doubt. 
 
 ^m 
 
 
 'hi 
 
 m 
 m 
 
 Alfeed E. PiocHE, Esq., was on tlie 9tli June, 
 1857, examined before the same Committee, and 
 gave tlie following evidence : — 
 
 Chairman. — You arc a Canadian, I believe 1 — I am an 
 Englishman, but I have been in Canada for the last 16 years. 
 
 In what part of Canada have you resided 1 — I have resided 
 in Quebec, in Montreal, in Kingston, and in Toronto. I have 
 been five years in Quebec, and about live years in Montreal. 
 
 Are you in any profession 1 — I am attached to the Provincial 
 Secretary's department. 
 
 In short, you are in office in a luiblic department ] — Yes. 
 
 What situation do you hold in that department ? — I am 
 fourth clerk. 
 
 Have you visited England in any official capacity ? — If you 
 will allow me, I will hand in my instructions from the Govern- 
 ment. 
 
 Will you have the kindness to read them 1 — " Secretary's 
 Office, Toronto, 7th March, 1857. — Sir, I have the honour, by 
 command of His Excellency the Governor-General, to instruct 
 you to proceed without delay to London, and when there to 
 place yourself at once in communication with and at the dis- 
 posal of the Hon. Mr. Draper, in connexion v/ith his mission 
 respecting the Hudson's Bay Territory. It will be your biisi- 
 ness to render siich assistance to Mr. Draper in the important 
 mission with which he is charged as from your researches on 
 the subject, or from other causes, you may be able to afford. 
 You will deliver to Mr. Draper the accompanying copies of the 
 report of the Commissioner of Crown Lands on the subject of 
 the Company's claim to the territory in question. — I have, <fec., 
 T. Lee Terrill, Secretary." 
 
 Mr. Christy. — Will you tell the Committee what the feeling 
 in Canada is with respect to the Hudson's Bay Company 1 — I 
 think it is adverse to the Company generally. Mr. Vancough- 
 net stated at a public meeting, last September, that he sought 
 a boundary for Canada on the Pacific Ocean, and that no 
 
23 
 
 charter could give to a body of men control over half a conti- 
 nent, and tliat he would not rest until that charter wa3 
 abolished. That has been echoed throughout the province by 
 the press, and by public men of all degrees. 
 
 Mr. Grog AN. — Does that gentleman hold any official situa- 
 tion ? — He is the President of the Executive Council, 
 
 Lord Stanley. — You say that that is the general feeling 
 throughout the pi'ovince 1 — Certainly. 
 
 Do you mean by that to say that the local Government of 
 Canada would be jirepared to take upon itself the expense and 
 responsibility of governing the entire territory of the Hudson's 
 Bay Company to the Pacific 1 — I cannot say whether they are 
 prepared ; they seem to think that the territory ought to be 
 attached to Canada, or that it belongs to Canada. 
 
 Mr. Christy. — Do the provincial authorities participate in 
 that opinion ] — I have some extracts from a report of the Com- 
 missioner of Crown Lands, in which he speaks upon the subject, 
 This has been presented to the Provincial Parliament, 
 
 The following is a copy of the report of the 
 Select Committee of Legislative Assembly of 
 Canada, transmitted by the Governor-General for 
 the information of Her Majesty's Government and 
 the Committee of the House of Commons : — 
 
 Committee Room, Hth Jime, 1857, 
 
 Present : 
 
 Hon. Mr. Terrill, Chairman. 
 
 Hon. Mr. Robinson. 
 Hon. Mr. Cauchon. 
 
 Hon. Mr. Solicitor-Gen, Smith. 
 Hon. Mr. Brown. 
 
 The Select Committee appointed to recei\e and collect 
 Evidence and Information as to the Rights of the Hudson's 
 Bay Company under their Charter, the Renewal of the 
 License of Occupation, the Character of the Soil and 
 Climate of the Territory, and its Fitness for Settlement, — 
 Have the honour to present their First Report, as follows : 
 Your Committee beg leave to inform your Honourable 
 House that they have examined three witnesses, Messrs. Glad- 
 man, Dawson, and M'Donell, upon the matter referred to them 
 
i • 
 
 if 
 
 
 24 
 
 for investigation, and your Committee submit to the considera- 
 tion of your Honourable House the evidence liereunto .annexed 
 of these three gentlemen. 
 
 The whole, nevertheless, respectfully submitted. 
 
 (Signed) J. Lee Terrill, Chairman. 
 
 The following evidence was given by Allen 
 M'DoNELL, Esq. : — 
 
 The claim which the Hudson's Bay Company set up in virtue 
 of the charter of Charles II. has (nignged my attention for some 
 years past, and the inA^estigations wliich I had the opportunity 
 of making have led to the conclusion that those claims have no 
 foundation in law or in equity ; whilst I might not be disposed 
 to dispute that in itself the charter may be good, so far as it 
 creates a body corporate with a common seal, and with power 
 to sue and to be sued, yet I contend that it cannot confer upon 
 the Hudson's Bay Comi)any those powers and privileges which 
 they assume to exorcise under it. The Sovereign, in the exer- 
 cise of the prerogative of the Crown, may grant a charter ; but 
 it has always been held that no Sovereign can grant to any of 
 its sul)jects exclusive rights and jnivilegcs without the consent 
 of Parliament ; and this charter having been so granted, the 
 powers and privileges sought to be exorcised \inder it are 
 illegal. 
 
 And this evidently was the opinion of the Hudson's Bay 
 Company themselves as early as 1600, viz., 20 years after the 
 date of this charter. At that period they petitioned for an Act 
 to bo passed for the confirmation of those rights and privileges 
 which had been sought to be granted to them in the charter. 
 
 The Act 1st of William and Mary is the Act alluded to ; it did 
 legalise and confirm them, but only for the period of seven 
 years, and no longer. 
 
 That Act of Parliament has never been renewed since it 
 expired in 1G97; conseqiiently the charter is left as it originally 
 stood, and wholly unaffected by any conformity Act of Par- 
 liament. 
 
 The very foundation for the charter is a graut of territory 
 presumed to have been made in the year 1G70. Now, as 
 Charles II. could not grant away what the Crown of England 
 
i5 
 
 did not possess, much less could he grant away the possessions 
 of another powisr : the vory words of the charter itself exchulo 
 from the operation of the gi'ant those identical territories which 
 the Hudson's Bay Company now claim. 
 
 A-t the date of the charter these territories were then jictually 
 in the possession of the Crown of Franco, and held and occupied 
 by the Company of New France, under and by virtue of a 
 charter granted by Louis XIII. of Fi-ance, and be!n'in,£,' date 
 1G2G, being 43 years anterior to the date of the charter by 
 Charles TI. A reference to the charter alluded to will show 
 that it defines the very boundary of those territories which the 
 Hudson's Bay Company now claim. A copy of the charter of 
 Louis XIII. will be found among the Parliamentary documents 
 of Lower Canada. 
 
 By the Treaty of Ryswick, in 1690, the whole of Hudson's 
 Bay was recognised as belonging to the Crown of France. In 
 that treaty no rights nor claims are provided for, or even 
 alluded to, as regards the Hudson's Bay Company ; whence it 
 is conclusive that the Hudson's Bay Company either had no 
 legtil rights, or such rights, if they existed, were abrogated by 
 that treaty. 
 
 By the Treaty of Utrecht, in 1713, a portion of the .shores 
 of the Hudson's Bay was ceded to England, and that was the 
 first time that England could claim an undisputed possession 
 thei'e. In the treaty, stipulations were made for the necessary 
 protection of the Comi)any of New Frtmce, which then held the 
 country under the charter of Louis XIII. The charter of 
 Charles cannot be construed to have the effect of granting any 
 lands acquired only by the Crown of England under another 
 sovereign, and long after the death of Charles. 
 
 By the Treaty of 17G3, which surrendered Canada to the 
 British Crown, the French and Canadian people were guaranteed 
 in their properties, and in the exercise of those rights and privi- 
 leges of trade as used by them under the French dominion. 
 
 They had for a century previous carried on an extensive 
 trade with all the western country, particidarly throughout the 
 Valleys of the Assiniboine and Saskatchewan. 
 
 The grant of every exclusive privilege of trade by the Crown 
 of Great Britain over any portion of the country alluded to is a 
 
26 
 
 ■I 
 
 a). 
 
 IM 
 
 direct bx'each of the articles of capitulation (Article 42) : " The 
 French and Canadians shall continue to be governed accordiiif? 
 to the customs of Paris, and the laws and usages established for 
 this coiuitry, and they shall not be subject to any other imposts 
 than those which were established under the Frencli doniinioii." 
 
 The term " Hudson's Bay Territory," as used in Acts of Par- 
 liament, and which Acts th j Hudson's Bay Conijiany assume to 
 regard as a recognition of wliat they call their right, can only 
 be made to ap])ly to such territories as lie within the Straits of 
 Hudson's Bay, and wore, in 1070, actutdly in possession of the 
 Crown of England ; none other could have been granted ; or, if 
 made to apply to other lands, it can only be made applicable to 
 such territories as were at that period unknown to the Crown 
 of England or any other power, but were subsequently dis- 
 covered by the Hudson's Bay Company, in conformity with the 
 conditions upon which the cliarter was granted, viz., on the 
 discovery of a new passage into the South Sea. 
 
 The mere incidental allusion in those Acts to the " territories 
 heretofore granted to the adventurers trading to Hudson's Bay " 
 is not declaratory of the legality of tJie claim. It was Avell 
 known that the Hudson's Bay Company claimed territory under 
 a charter of Charles II. ; the Legislaturt^ wore not required to 
 express opinion upon the validity of the deed, nor what wore 
 the boundaries of the country supposed to be granted. Nor do 
 those Acts of Parliament preclude the assumed rights of the 
 Hudson's Bay Company being inquired into, or set aside as 
 being illegal. 
 
 Besides, when these Acts refer to the territory, and allude to 
 the "rights of the Hudson's Bay Company," there is this very 
 significant jn'oviso, — such rights as the said Company are by 
 law entitled to " claim." 
 
 A reference to the history of Canada will establish the fact, 
 that the charter of Charles II. can confer no rights nor claims 
 to territory. 
 
 The able memorandum furnished to the Legislature by the 
 Honourable Mr. Cauchon recites historical facts, and furnishes 
 data to warrant the conclusion that the assumjjtion of power 
 over the territory in question by the Hudson's Bay Company is 
 a usurpation, 
 
27 
 
 ■ 
 
 That portion of territory to which they limit their claim to 
 an exclusive right of trade in virtue of a license issued to them 
 and the partners of the North- West Company in 1821, and 
 since renewed in 1838, will be admitted as a legal right ; but 
 it is a right which I think the people of Canada will unani- 
 mously protest against ever being renewed. 
 
 Such exclusive privileges are antagonistic to the spirit of the 
 age in which we live, and are opposed to the best interests of 
 Canada, and are regarded in this country as a direct infringe- 
 ment upon the rights of a free people. 
 
 Immediately after the cession of Canada (about the year 
 1766), numerous Britisli subjects engaged in the fuv trade, and 
 pushed their enterprises throughout the whole of British North 
 America, trading from Montreal to Hudson's Bay, and to the 
 Pacific shores ; these traders followed the old route of the Com- 
 pany of New France and the French traders. In 1784 the most 
 of these traders united, and formed the North-West Company 
 of Montreal. They carried on their trade also in Hudson's Bay, 
 and sent ships there as well as the Hudson's Bay Company ; 
 the North-West Company sent ship.^ also round Cape Horn to 
 the mouth of the Columbia j the Hudson's Bay Company did 
 not trade there at that time, nor in any part of that country 
 which they now designate as the licensed territoiy. 
 
 The principal trade of the North-West Company was carried 
 on through Canada to the shores of the Pacific; the route 
 pursued was from Montreal vld the lakes to the head of Lake 
 Superior, and thence across the continent ; the means of 
 transport was by canoes and batteaux ; about 5,000 men were 
 employed in this trade. 
 
 I am told by those who were partners in that Company, that 
 the profits of the Company were very great until the Hudson's 
 Bay Company attempted to drive them out of the country by 
 means of force ; the contests arising from that attempt caused 
 serious losses to each Company, and both were nearly ruined. 
 It was then that the Companies united, and resolved to share 
 the country between them, by setting up the claim under the 
 old extinct charter ; and with their united means tliey deterred 
 other traders entering into a competition for the trade, and 
 tliis wa« year by year more effectually guarded againsfc by using 
 
ftS 
 
 cvmy means to cIoho np thn old travoUed roiito,«i, 'wlilcli would 
 liave point(ul out the way to otlier traders. 
 
 Sometimes iiideptnidcut traders would lualco an estaUlslimont 
 along Lake Superior, or sovue of the lakes more iu the interior ; 
 these parties were driven out, and their property destroyed. 
 
 Tlutro was no means of redress, as there were no tribunals at 
 which the perpetrators eould ho mach* to answer, and to travel 
 with a canoe some 1,000 miles to institute proceedings was an 
 cflectual har sinco 1817 ; steamboats now travei'so along tho 
 coasts of Lake Huron and Superior, but even now with these 
 facilities a man cannot obtain justice ; the countries along these 
 shores are neither within tho limits of any organized territories, 
 and outrages arc committed by tho Hudson's Bay Company 
 with impunity. 
 
 The Hudson's Bay Company first entered into tho Valley of 
 Saskatchewan about 30 years after the cession of Canada, and 
 whilst the North- West Company had large establishments there. 
 
 The Hudson's Bay Company did not enter into the Valley of 
 the Assini]>oiue until about 42 years subsequent to tho cession 
 of the country (about 1 805). 
 
 Besident traders from Montreal made establishments there as 
 early as 17GG, or about three years after tbe cession. 
 
 The Frencli traders must have occupied many of the same 
 localities near 100 years prior to that, 
 
 The Hudson's Bay Company entcreti into those countries from 
 Hudson's Bay rui Hay's and Nelson Bivers; previous to this 
 they had confined tliemselves to tlie shores of Hudson's Bay ; 
 they did not set up a claim by virtue of the charter until many 
 years after their first entering into these countries ; they traded 
 like any other traders, and like the North -West Company ; the 
 North- West Company was not a chartered Company, but a Joint 
 Stock Association, and claiming no exclusive privileges. 
 
 The Hudson's Bay Company first set up the claim of exclu- 
 sive rights, (fee, in 1814; the late Colonel Miles M'Donell did 
 so on behalf of the Company, by issuing a proclamation as tho 
 Governor of the Assiniboino country, appointed by the lEudson's 
 Bay Company ; the contest which ensued between the two 
 Companies originated on the assumption of exclusive rights 
 and not from the actual competition iu trade ; the trade had 
 
always hean carried on frooly nnd \ Koif "f»y rr«<tnctions ; tlio 
 proc'lamutiou was sot at <loliani;o I'y '<^ ]• .itnc' ^ tlio North- 
 West Company ; among tli(; most pi 'Uiiuoutoi hcso woro woxno 
 of liiH own relatives. 
 
 I l)eli()Vo there never had been any ctjllision l)ui*> ,4 tUo 
 rival traders until after tin; assum})tion of jiower on h' part 
 of the Hudson's ]>iiy Company ; tlie legality of the elaims if the 
 Hudson's Bay Company were never subjected to the decision of 
 a legal tribunal, unless tho result of the trials of some of t]w 
 partners of the North-West Company be deemed so ; these 
 parties were charginl with the crime of muvder, having takcni 
 the lives of tho Hudson's Uay people who sought to enforce 
 their claims. 
 
 The Companies united in 1821, and called themselves tho 
 Hudson's Bay Company. 
 
 Tho effect of this union was to destroy :i trade which had 
 theretofoi'o benefited Canada, by turning it through Hudson's 
 Bav ; the route rid the lakes was abandoned, not because it was 
 a more objectionable one, but because tho conthming it as tlu? 
 route would in all pi'obability lead to another competition for 
 the trade by Canadian merchants. 
 
 The united Companies succeeded in closing the route to all 
 others who might have been disposed to compete for the trade ; 
 having been closed for so many years, and no new trader being 
 induced to enter into contest with the new powerful Company, 
 the trade and the route became forgotten ; if tho trade were 
 again opened, I am convinced that as active and productive a 
 trade as formerly would at once spring into existence. 
 
 The facilities wliich now offer for the successful carrying it 
 on are as 100 to 1 as compared with the former period : for 
 instance, it cost the North-West Company £30,000 to lay down 
 their goods at Fort William, at the head of Lake Sui^erior ; 
 the same quantity of merchandise might now])e laid down there 
 for £300 or £400, and the route between this and Lake Winni- 
 peg could for more than three-fourths of tho way be made facile 
 for a steamboat. If a large trad(^ like that which formerly was 
 carried on shoiild ever be revived, there is no doubt but that 
 steamers would ply u23on the long reaches of water which exist 
 beyond the height of land. 
 
 D 2 
 
I 
 
 I 
 
 I 
 
 M 
 
 I nm Convinced Unit witliin two years a trade wonld bo 
 Ciirrit'd on nlonj< tliat route to tlio sliorcs oi'tlio racific. 
 
 ItwaH 80 in tho early Iilstoiy of th(! country, and before steam 
 yviXH known, and there i,s no reason why .sueli a trade hIiouM not 
 exist now; witnesses will tell you that in 18M and 1815 Fort 
 William hud IVequently 3,000 traders assembled there ; Toronto 
 nt that period could not number 500. 
 
 Had the North-Wcst Comj)iiny not united with the Hudson's 
 Tiiy Company, there is no doubt but that the route vid Lako 
 ►Superior would by this time have been navigable all the way to 
 the Saskatchewan, or at least all the portages made facile for 
 tcau s, ifec, an<l a chain of wettlements would havo been formod 
 along the route. 
 
 The profits of the Hudson's Bay Company are very largo. 
 In jNEarch, 1850, it is said the trade sales amounted to near half 
 a million ; they «old of buiTalo robes alone 80,000, at about 
 £2. 10s. a-picco. 
 
 George Gladman, Esq., gave tlio following 
 OYidcnce : — 
 
 The memorandum of the Honourable Commissioner of Crown 
 Lands, published in the "Return to an Address of the Honour- 
 able the Legislative Assemldy," is so replete with valuable 
 data on which to ground a report by this Committee, that I 
 cannot regret my own inability to &\y anything of importance 
 on the charter of the Company, their leases, or their titles. I 
 pi^rfectly agree with the Honourable Commissioner, that the 
 time has arrived when the measures ho has suggested should 
 bo " most forcibly pressed upon the Imperial Government ; " 
 and I beg your permission to express my deep-felt conviction, 
 that on the decision of this Commission, and the course of 
 action that may be taken by the Canadian Government at this 
 juncture, depends the future weal or woo of my countrymen in 
 the British North-West possessions. 
 
 Mr. William MacD. Dawson called in, and examined. 
 
 I am the head of the Woods and Forests Branch of the 
 Crown Land Department, and reside in Toronto. 
 
 1 have never had any difficulty or quarrel with any one 
 connected with the Hudson's Bay Company. 
 
:n 
 
 IFiivo you particuliU'ly studied tlio titlo^ rnidor which the 
 lIudM(»n's Hay Coiuixmy claim ccrtaiu rights ot'^oil, jurisdiction, 
 aud tnido on this contiu(Mit ] 
 
 I have mado this suhjcct a pavtiouhii' ohjcct of study for 
 many years, aud hav(5 ouiittcd no opiiortuuity of acquii-inj'; iii- 
 fonnatiou upon it j and although witii more linu) than I could 
 dfjvote to it, and a nu)ro extended reseiuvli, uuu-li nddiLional 
 infunuation could bo obtained, I believe that it would only tend 
 to till up details, and Htrcngtlion and confirm tho results of thu 
 investigation I linve already mado. 
 
 Will you state to the Committee the rcsidt of your Inves- 
 tigation ? 
 
 Thorosult of my investigiitiou has bceu to demonstrnte that 
 in the lied River and Saskatchewan countries tho Ihidson's 
 Bay Cumpnny have no right or title whatever, except what 
 they have in common with other British subjects. Wherever 
 they have any possession or occupancy, then they are simply 
 Hquatters, tho same as they are at Fort William, Laclochc, 
 Lake Nii>issiiig, or any of tlieir other post-s in Canada. 
 
 Tho governmental attributes they claim in that country an; 
 a fiction, and their exercise ai)alpable infraction of law. 
 
 I am no enemy to the Hudson's Bay Company, nor to any 
 individual connected with it ; ami I think that there e.re at 
 tho present day extenuating circumstances to justify a great 
 degree of forbearance towards them when their position comes 
 to be dealt with either judicially or legislatively. 
 
 Illegal as it undoubtedly is, their present position is a sort 
 of moral necessity with them. The first attempt of tho Com- 
 pany, under Lord Selkirk's rajiinc, to assume that position, 
 was no doubt a monstrous usurpation ; but it was defeated, 
 though not till it had caused much bloodshed. 
 
 Tho Hudson's Bay Company and the Canadian Traders 
 (North- West Comj)any) afterwards amalgamated ; and then, 
 in pursuance of a policy most dexterously planned and executed, 
 carried tho trade away back into tho interior, from the very 
 shores of the lakes aud rivers adjoining tlie settlements of 
 Canada, and took it round by Hudson's Bay, to keep it out of 
 view, to lessen the chances of a new opposition springing up. 
 
 They also gave out that it was thoir country (a fiction which 
 
li 
 
 32 
 
 the license of exclusive trade for the Indian territories helped 
 tliem to mainiiiu) ; and they iudiistriously published and cir- 
 culated }napH of it as such, wliicli being copied into other maps 
 and geographical works, the delusion became very general 
 indeed. 
 
 When therefore, by this means, they had been left alone in 
 those remote territories, without any ijitercoursc with the 
 organized tribunals or legitinuite go\ernment oftlie country, (an 
 intercoursi^ Avhich their nion».'tary interests forbade them to 
 seek,) it became a sort of necessity for them tu establish a juris- 
 diction of their own. 
 
 It is true that they have gone to an extreme in this matter, 
 which it would be difficult to excuse ; biit in such a case it is 
 hard to take the fii'st ste}), and be able to stop after^vards, moio 
 particularly when it consists in a total antagonism to existing 
 law, t)r rather in assuuiiug to themselves the functions of con- 
 stituted authorities, where they legally possess only the rights 
 of subjects and traders in common with the rest of the com- 
 munity. 
 
 But having once assumed and exercised those powders, and 
 thereby made tliem;-:eU"(.'s amenable to the laws of the countiy, 
 it is not to be wondered at thi'.t they have sougiit to justify it 
 on the pretence that they possess the powers of goverimient, 
 which (doidjtful at best even in tliose localities wdiere they have 
 some show of title) ai'e without tlio least foundation on the 
 banks of the Saskatchewan or lied EiAcrs, 
 
 In thus palliating the tenacity with which the Iliulson's 
 Bay Company cling to their fictitious title, I may be accused 
 of being their apologist, but 1 am so only to the extent that, at 
 the present day, their position has become a necessity j for, in 
 so far as they have aU'ectcd the rights of others, they have ren- 
 dered themseh es liable to the most serious consequences, should 
 any party aggrieved sec fit to appeal to the legal tribunals of 
 the country ; and it Is l)ut natural to supjiose that they will 
 endea^"our to maintain the fiction lonu" enough to enable them 
 to effect a compromise. 
 
 ^ny number of individuals might associate themselves 
 together for mining, hunting, or agriculture, say at Lake 
 Nipissing or on Anticosti ; and finding no legal tribunals there 
 
 I i iif 
 
33 
 
 or -svlthln their reach, thoy might cstahlish n jnvisdictiou of 
 their own, and execute their judgments. Circumstances may 
 be imagined in which such a course, if resulting from the ne- 
 cessity of their i)osition, might be morally right, though legally 
 wrong ; but nothing short of an Act of ludeuniity could sa-\i3 
 them from the consequences, if pursued by those whose rights 
 they had affected. 
 
 Such is exactly the position of the Hudson's V>;\j Company 
 at the Ked Eiver, and, for the judgments they have rendered 
 there, they arc undoubtedly amenable to be judged by the 
 legally constituted tribunals of this country ; and those whom 
 they have condemned or punished, ov whose riglits or interests 
 they have adjudicated upon, can certainly obtain redress. 
 
 And to this extent I would be their advocate, that, in so far 
 as their assumption of jurisdiction has been in a manner a 
 necessity resulting from the acts of former years, the Legislature 
 should pass an Act of Indemnity to shield them from the con- 
 sequences ; the circumstances to be first investigated, howevei", 
 by a commission appointed by the Go^'ernmcnt for that purpose. 
 
 It may seem presumi)tuous in me to put the case so strongly 
 in opposition to the ginieral view of their territorial rights ; 
 but it is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact. I could 
 have no hesitation to state as a fact, that the coimty of York 
 and the district of Montreal arc not portions of the Conq)any's 
 territory, but the fact that the Eed Biver and Saskatchewan 
 are not in their territory is just as strong and absolute ; and 
 the circumstance that the one happens to be bettor known 
 than the other does not alter the fact in the one case more than 
 the other. 
 
 But the generally-received view of the subject is but of 
 recent date, and simply the result of the circumstance, that no 
 one in particular has taken any interest in denying it. It is 
 only since the Union of the Companies in 1821 that there has 
 been no obstacle to the continuous imposition of the Company's 
 views upon the public, till they ultimately became rather mi- 
 opposed than acce])ted ; and, in denying it now, I am simply 
 in accord with the highest authorities, v/h<ise province it has 
 becQ to treat the question judicially. 
 
 It must be remembered that the Company did not attempt 
 

 34 
 
 to even enter upon these countries until 104 years after the 
 (lato of their chcavtor, viz., in 1774 ; and that they then did so, 
 not as taking possession under their charter, but only to par- 
 ticipate in a traffic then in the hands of British subjects trading 
 from Canada in virtue of the conquest or cession of the country, 
 tlirough wliicli, and not in virtue of their charter, the Company 
 also had, of course, a right to trade as British subjects. 
 
 A rivalry hiiving been kept up for many years in the trade, 
 and the absui'd construction of the charter now contended for 
 having L'Lcn invented, tljc attempt to exercise the powers 
 claimed was made by the Company, through Lord Selkirk, first 
 tliooretically about the years 1811-13, and practically about 
 1814, by Wiirinug oil the Nortli-West Company, and obstructing 
 the channel of their trade ; and the result was a great deal of 
 strife and bloodshed. In the course of this strife various 
 appeals were made to the Provincial and Imperial Governments, 
 and to the legal tribunals, and in every instance the decisions 
 were constructively or directly adverse to the pretensions of the 
 Hudson's Bay Company. 
 
 In a despatch to the Governor- General from Earl Bathurst, 
 by order of His lioyal Highness the Prince llegent, under date 
 Gth February, 1817, 1 find the following instructions in relation 
 to these events : — 
 
 "You will also require, under similar penalties, the restitu- 
 tion of all forts, buildings, or trading stations, with the property 
 which they contain, which may have been seized or taken pos- 
 session of by either party, to the party who originally established 
 or constructed the same, and who were possessed of them 
 previous to the recent disputes between the two Companies. 
 
 "You will also require the removal of any blockade or im- 
 pediment by which any party may have attempted to prevent 
 or interrupt the free jiassago of traders or others of His Majesty's 
 subjects, or the natives of the country, with their merchandise, 
 furs, pi'ovisions, and other effects, throughout the lakes, rivers, 
 roads, and ev<ny other usual route or communication heretofore 
 used for tlie purposes of the fur trade in the interior of North 
 America ; and the full and free permission for all persons to 
 pursue their usual and accustomed trade without hindrance or 
 molestation." 
 
 'a 
 
 M. 
 
S5 
 
 - 
 
 And in conclusion, this object is again peremptorily insisted 
 on, viz., "the mutual restoration of all property captured 
 during these disputes, and the freedom of trade and intercourse 
 with the Indians, until tlu3 trials now pending can be brought 
 to a judicial decision, and the great question at issue with 
 respect to the rights of the two Companies shall be definitely 
 settled." 
 
 The trials then pending, to which the above allusion has 
 reference, were those instituted by Lord Selkirk against the 
 partners and employees of the North-West Company, who had 
 resisted the pretensions of the Hudson's Bay Company, and in 
 consequence of which a battle was fought on the Frog Plains, 
 at the Red River, in which some 20 of the Hudson's Bay people 
 were killed, including the " Governor," as they styled their 
 chief officer. These trials were for murder (some of the parties 
 as principals and some accessories), for arson, robbery (stealing 
 cannon), and other high misdemeanors, and were held in this 
 city, then the town of York, in October, 1818, and resulted in 
 the acquittal of all the parties on all the charges, though it was 
 not denied that some of them had been in the battle, in which, 
 however, they contended that they were in defence of their 
 just rights. 
 
 These trials were held under the Canada Jurisdiction Act 
 (43 Geo. III., c. 138), under a commission from Lower Canada j 
 but the jurisdiction under that Act being questioned on the 
 grouiKHhat the Frog Plains were in Upper Canada, and there- 
 fore not in the territories affected by that Act, the Court was so 
 doubtful on the question of boundary, that the charge to the 
 jury directed that, in case of finding the prisoners guilty, they 
 should return a special verdict setting forth that "they could 
 not see from any evidence before them what were the limits of 
 Upper Canada." 
 
 The Attorney-General was unable to define these limits, but 
 appealed to the Court to decide, as they were deducible from 
 treaties, Acts of Parliament, and proclamations, <fec., and the 
 judgment of the Court was as above stated, the following 
 passage occurring in the charge of the Chief Justice : — 
 
 " Mr. Attorney-General has put in evidence the latitude 
 and longitude of the Frog Plains, but he does not put in 
 
36 
 
 U 
 
 evidence 'wlicthor this Intitude and longitude lie witliont or 
 ■\vitliiu the boundaries of Upper Canada, and I do not know 
 whether from 90" to 100" or 150" from the western limit of 
 Upper Canada." 
 
 In other words, the Court could not affirm that Upper 
 Canada had any western limit on this side of the Pacific, and 
 the Court was right ; its westerly limit never had been assigned, 
 and iibsolute evidence of the very nature which the Attorney- 
 General (now Chief Justice) admitted would be proof upon the 
 subject, existed so far as to prove that the province extended 
 beyond the Lake of the Woods, without determining how far 
 beyond ; but it was not his duty to quote it, as he was pro- 
 secuting for a conviction as directed by a special commission 
 from Lower Canada imder a particular Act. An acquittal, 
 however, rendered any special verdict unnecessary, and the 
 question was not therefore further tried on these cases. 
 
 I must remark, however, that the question raised was solely 
 whether the scene of the outrages at lied River was in Canada 
 or the Indian territory, not whether it was in Canada or the 
 Hudson's Bay Company's Territory. The latter alternative was 
 not even entertained, having been almost entirely ignored on 
 the trials as too manifestly absurd to make any legal fight upon 
 at all. 
 
 In short, the case for the defence was based on a justification 
 of resistance to the assumed authority of the Company, whoso 
 preposterous pretensions on the Red River with "governors, 
 sheriflfs, &c.," were treated with ridicule, though without 
 detracting from the individuals, " Governor" Semple, who was 
 killed, or his predecessor, M'Donell, who were worthy of the 
 highest respect, though, like many others, imposed upon in the 
 first instance by the specious pretences of the Company and 
 Lord Selkirk. 
 
 Other actious and trials were held in Upper Canada, all of 
 which, so far as I have been able to trace them, were adverse to 
 the Hudson's Bay Company. 
 
 In February, 1819, in this city, William Smith, under- 
 sherilT of the then Western District, obtained £500 damages 
 against Lord Selkirk, then at the head of a largo armed force, 
 for resisting him in the execution of a writ of restitution, 
 
37 
 
 founded upon a verdict obtained at Sandwich in 1816, and 
 resistance also to a warrant fur his Lordship's arrest. 
 
 At the same time, Daniel M'Kenzie obtained £1,500 
 damages for forcible detention, &c., by Lord Selkirk. 
 
 Criminal proceedings were also instituted, and a bill of in- 
 dictment found against Lord Selkirk himself and the leaders of 
 his party, for their illegal transactions in the Western terri- 
 tories ; but I have not yet been able to trace up the result of 
 this ease, and no doubt much valuable information could bo 
 obtained by some one liaving more time than I have had to 
 hunt up the records of these proceedings. 
 
 The latter trials, I believe, were in the ordinary course of 
 procediire of Upper Canada, and not under tlie special Act for 
 the Indian territories, &;c., and the p-.-oceedings taken extended 
 to transactions far down the waters descending to Lake 
 Winnipeg. 
 
 Having shown the views of the judicial authorities of Upper 
 Canada, I would advert for a moment to those of Lower 
 Canada. 
 
 In May, 1818, Charles do Et.'imliard was tried at Quebec for 
 murder committed in ISIG on the river Winnipeg, under the 
 Canada Jurisdiction Act. Exception was taken to the juris- 
 diction of the Court, on the groimd that the locality was not 
 in the Indian territory, but within tlie limits of Upi)er Canada. 
 
 The Court overruled the objection, and decided that the 
 Westerly boundary of Up[)er Canada was a line on the 
 meridian of 88° 50' west from London. 
 
 I hardly think that any surveyor, geographer, or delineator 
 of boundaries of any experience or scientific attainment.'! would 
 concur in the decision. 
 
 The question would be too long, however, to discuss now, 
 and I sball only say that it was based on the assumption that, of 
 the territory previously belonging to and acquired from France 
 in 17G.3, (jnly a part was organized as the province of Quebec, 
 and that the two provinces of Canada, after the division, were 
 confined to the same limits provided for the fornuT by the Act 
 of 177-i:. The Court, the Attorney-Genera], and the counsel 
 for the prisoner alike concurred in tlie fact that the river 
 Winnipeg was a part of the country previously belonging to 
 
38 
 
 H 
 
 Franco, and ceded by the Treaty of Paris In 17G3, and at no 
 stage of the proceedings wa.s the question of its being a part of 
 the Hudson's Bay Company's territories for one moment enter- 
 tained. 
 
 De Reimhard was found guilty, and sentenced to death ; but 
 although the Court refused to reconsider its decision, yet the 
 reasoning of Messrs. Stuart and Valliere was so clear, that the 
 judges deemed it expedient that the execution should be 
 delayed till the decision of the Im})erial Government could be 
 had upon the question of jurisdiction. 
 
 The actual reasons given by the Imperial Government I have 
 not been able to get at ; but I know that when the decision 
 was given the jirisoncr was released, and that tlic question 
 submitted was that of jurisdiction, as above stated. 
 
 I rausL here remark, tb .J notwithstanding the able and con- 
 vincing arguments of Mossrs. Stuart and Valliere, they omitted 
 one point, which the Court would have been obliged, by its 
 own admissions, to have accepted as conclusive against the 
 judgment it gave. 
 
 The decision given was based upon the construction put by 
 the Court upon the actual Avording of an Act of Parliament, 
 but it was admitted that the country to the west"! only " came 
 into possession of the British Crown at the Treaty of Paris in 
 17G3," and it was admitted that the King could, by an act of 
 sovereign authority, "have placed that country under the 
 Government of Canada ;" it was merely denied that he did do 
 so, not asserted that he could not do it. The counsel for the 
 prisoner did not chance to come upon the commissions of the 
 Governors, or they would have found that there had been such 
 an "act of sovereign authority," distinctly describing that 
 country to the west of the Lake of the Woods as attached to 
 the Government of Canada, and the Court by its own admission 
 must have been bound by it. 
 
 I may also remark, that the decision of the Court of Quebec 
 would have made the westerly limit of Upper Canada a long 
 way east of the United States boundary, leaving out the shores 
 of the lake (where we are now selling mining lands) and its 
 westerly tributaries, and has, therefore, nothing in common 
 with the boundary designated for us by the Hudson's Bay 
 
 I 
 
1 
 
 Company, viz., tho water-shed of tho St. Lawrence, and for 
 which thoro is no earthly authority except themselves. 
 
 On this head, I must advert to one other authority, which is 
 of the highest importance at this moment, when troops are 
 about to be sent to tho Red Kiver, and who, if they carry with 
 them tho erroneous views which, of late years, have been with 
 some success imposed upon the ]iublic by tho assiduous pro* 
 mulgation of the Company, may, unfortunately, be placed in a 
 position of antagonism to tho civil power. 
 
 There were, indeed, some troops there not many years ago, 
 and no such evil as might be apprehended now resulted ; but 
 the circumstances are changed ; the scenes of an earlier jioriod 
 may come back if the attempt bo made, wholly unsustainod by 
 law, to repress a legal right. If siich should be the case, it 
 would be unfortunate if Her Majesty's soldiers were found on 
 the wrong side, acting against law ; for the subject is now being 
 so well discussed, that the people will know their rights, and 
 will appeal to the legal tribunals and the civil powers of the 
 State to sustain them. Better that military rule prevailed 
 entirely, for then the officers would know their duties and their 
 responsibilities. If they go under the impression that they are 
 to be subject to the supposed civil officers of a self-constituted 
 government, which has no legal existence, they may find them- 
 selves called upon to enforce behests which are not law, which 
 are infractions of law ; they may be called upon to subdue 
 resistance to illegal acts, to which resistance is a duty and a 
 right ; and if for acting on these behests they are ultimately 
 brought before the courts of justice, they will find that they 
 have acted under those whose po-svers will bo treated as a 
 nullity, whose civil offices will be held a mockery. This has 
 been before, this may bo so again, if due precaution be not 
 observed ; and I state it thus strongly now, because the more 
 it is known, the less will be the chance of its recurrence. 
 
 If proper civil officers, magistrates, ike, were appointed by 
 His Excellency the Governor-General for the Red Eiver country, 
 to whom alone the troops could look in case of emergency, as 
 vested with authoritv, the difficulty and danger would be 
 obviated; for without this there is no authority, in that 
 country, by, through, or in any person connected with the 
 
40 
 
 
 Hudson's Bay Company, as such, to which any officer or 
 soldier in Her Majesty's service would bo justified in yielding 
 obedience. 
 
 To revert to* the authority upon this subject I was about to 
 quote, it will be remembered that, during the troubles wliich 
 formerly took i)lace, upon special representations made by Lord 
 Selkirk that he was not safe iu proceeding to tlie Red River 
 settlement, some troops were sent v»^ith him, and the instruc- 
 tions given to them by order of His Excellency Sir Crordon 
 Drummond are so clear and decisive, that no one can mistake 
 their purport ; they were as fidlows : — 
 
 Adjutant-General's Office, Quebec, 
 
 nt?t April, 1816. 
 Sir, 
 
 The Earl of Selkirk having represented to the Administrator- 
 in-Chief and Commanding-General of the forces that he has 
 reasons to apprehend that attempts may be made upon his life 
 in the course of the journey through the Indian country which 
 lie is about to undertake. His Excellency lias, in conse(pience, 
 been pleased to grant His Lordship a military guard for his 
 personal protection against assassination. This party, which is 
 to consist of two sei'jeants and 12 rank and fdo of the regiment 
 De Meuron, is i)laced under your command, and I am com- 
 manded to convoy to you tlio ])ositive prohibition of His Excel- 
 lency the Lieutenant-General oommandiug the forces, against 
 the employment of this force for any other purpose than the 
 jjersonal protection of the Earl of Selkii'k. You are parti- 
 cularly ordered not to engage yourself, or the party under your 
 command, in any disputes which may occur betwixt the Earl 
 of Selkirk and his engcKjees and eniplojjees and those of the 
 North-West Company, or to take any part or share in any 
 affray which may arise out of such disputes. 
 
 By such an interference on your part you would not only be 
 disobeying your instructions, but acting in direct opposition 
 to the wishes and intentions of the Government to the coun- 
 tenance, support, and protection of whicli each party has an 
 equal claim. The Earl of Selkirk has engaged to furnish the 
 party under your command with provisions during the time of 
 your absence. You are on no occasion to separate from your 
 
41 
 
 party, but to return with His Lordship, and on no account to 
 Bufter yourself, or any of your detachment, to be left at any 
 gettlemcnt or post in the Indian country. 
 
 These instructions are to bo cloarly explained to the non- 
 commiasioned officers and men in your party. 
 
 I have, &c., 
 Lieutenant Graffeuried, (Signed) J. Harvey, 
 
 D(5 Meuron's Regiment. Lieut.-Col. D. A. G. 
 
 This is another emphatic declaration that the Government 
 held the Hudson's Bay Company and the Canadian traders as 
 possessed of equal rights, and that Her Majesty's troops at 
 least were not to bo used against the one to sustain the ridi- 
 culous pretensions of the other. Notwithstanding the stringency 
 of these instructions, however, Lord Selkirk having a number 
 of the disbanded De Meuron soldiers in his pay, it was difficult 
 for the regulars to resist being led along with them to enter 
 upon the North -West Company's property, &c., which involved 
 them in legal difficulties after their return, from which it was 
 not easv to extricate them. 
 
 I have confined myself in the foregoing remarks to the Tied 
 River and Saskatchewan countries, which were the principal 
 scenes of the disputes which have heretofore called for action ; 
 and it will be seen that the imperial authorities, the provincial 
 authorities, the militar}' authorities, and the courts of justice, 
 have all ignored the pretensions of the Hudson's Bay Company 
 as regards these countries. 
 
 The great danger in renewing the Company's lease of the 
 Indian territories, however, would be, that they might drop 
 the pretence that the lied River, ifec, is covered Ijy their charter, 
 and claim it as part of the Indian territories ; a i)lea which, 
 though erroneous, might be more sustained by technicalities, 
 inasmuch as some of the remote pai'ts of Canada, perfectly 
 understood to be such, have, nevertheless, sometimes been de- 
 siccnated the Indian countries in official documents. I have 
 not referred to the validity of the Company's charter, either to 
 deny or admit it ; I merely deny that it has effi)ct on the 
 countries I have spoken of 
 
 In support of this, I have quoted more recent authorities ; 
 but for a more particular investigation of their title, its extent 
 
42 
 
 and origiu, I beg to refer to a report which I wroto for the 
 Commissioner of Crown Lands some months ago, the substance 
 of which appears in the shape of a memorandum in the Return 
 to an Address for certain papers connected with the Hudson's 
 Bay question. It embodies the view I have entertained for 
 many years, and is the result of much careful study. 
 
 Q. Have you made the early and present boundaries of 
 Canada a particular subject of study 1 If so, state the result. 
 
 A. The early boundaries of Canada, or New France, included, 
 I think, the whole of Hudson's Bay ; for I find all that part of 
 the country granted to a trading company by the King of 
 France, in a cliarter somewhat similar, but 43 years earlier 
 than the charter of the Hudson's Bay Company. 
 
 I find the country also confirmed by treaty to France, at 
 St. Germans-en-Laye, 38 years before the last-named charter, 
 but the investigation of this part of the subject is fully stated 
 in the memorandum referred to. 
 
 I find that, from the Treaty of Utrecht, in 1713, to the 
 Treaty of Paris, in 17G3, the boundaries between the French 
 possessions in Canada and the British possessions in Hudson's 
 Bay were not defined. The lines claimed by both parties 
 are distinctly laid down on the map lately prepared by Mr. 
 Devine, in the Crown Lands Department. 
 
 Both, it will be seen, give the Red River and Saskatchewan 
 to France, and the line laid down from British authorities is 
 from those least favourable to French pretensions of that 
 period. 
 
 All the countiy south of that line is, of course, what was ceded 
 by France as Canada, in 1763, and was in her undisputed posses- 
 sion up to that time. There was never any westerly limit as- 
 signed to Canada either before or since the Treaty of Paris. The 
 French claimed to the Pacific, though they never explored the 
 whole way across, which, however, the Canadians (British and 
 French) were the first to effect after the treaty. 
 
 Some British authorities of a more recent date claimed under 
 the Treaty of Utrecht from Hudson's Bay to latitude 49° as 
 having been so determined by Commissioners, but no such 
 decision was ever given. I have searched every book I could 
 find upon the subject, and have communicated with those who 
 
43 
 
 Imvosoarclied tlicbost libiaiics of Fmnc(^ and England witli tho 
 same ol)j('ct, Imt no antlioi'ity can bo found for such a boundaiT, 
 
 Petition fi'oni the Jioard of Tfudn of the Citif of Toronto to the 
 Leylslative Council f jtresentol 20th April, 1857. 
 
 To tlio Honourable the Legislutivt! Council of the Province of 
 Canada, in Parliament awsenibled. 
 
 The Petition of tho Board of Trade of the City of Toronto, 
 
 IFUMBLY SllEWETH, 
 
 That an association of traders, under tho title of " Tho 
 Honourable Hudson's Bay Company," during a long period of 
 time, have claimed and exercised a sovereignty in the soil, to- 
 gether with the right of exclusive tjude over a large portion of 
 tho province of Canada, and that tho exercise of such claim is 
 subversive to all those rights and privileges which were gua- 
 i'anteed to the inhabitants of Canada by Royal proclamation 
 immediately after the conquest of the country, and subsequently 
 secured to them by those Acts of the British Parliament which 
 gave to Canada a constitutio)ial govennnent. 
 
 Your petitioners further show, that up to the year 1703, when 
 by the Treaty of Fontainebleau Canada was ceded to the British 
 Crown, tho whole region of country extending westward to the 
 " Pacific Ocean," and northward to tho shore of tho "Hudson's 
 Bay," had continued in the undisputed ])ossession of the Crown 
 of France for a period of two centuries, and was known as La 
 Nouvelle France, or Canada ; 
 
 That during the half century succeeding the treaty above 
 alluded to, an extensive trade and traffic was continued to be 
 carried on throughout tho country, described by commercial 
 companies and traders who had established themselves there 
 under authority of the Crown of France, and that a trade was 
 likewise, and at the same period, carried on by other traders 
 of British origin, who had entered into that country and formed 
 establishments there, consequent upon its cession to the British 
 Crown ; 
 
 That such trade and traffic was carried on freely and inde- 
 pendent of any restrictions upon commercial freedom, either as 
 originally enacted by the Crown of France, or promidgated by 
 that of Great Britain ; 
 
44 
 
 Tliiit in 1783 nearly all the albrcsaid traders aiul companies 
 united and formed iin a.Hsoeiation, under the nani(U)t' the "North- 
 West Com [)any of ]\roiiti'eal,'' whieh suid Comimny mado many 
 important discsovories, and I'xtcndeil their estaljli.shments through- 
 out the interior of North An)erica, and to within the Arctic 
 Circle and to the i'aeific Ocean ; 
 
 Tiiat in the year 181'! the said North-W<'st Company united 
 with the so-called lludson'.s Bay Company, a Company to all 
 intents and j)Ui'po.si'S forei;L;u to the interests of Canada, and 
 owiny no responsibility to her ; 
 
 That under the name of the Honourahle Hudson's Bay Com- 
 pany they advance claims and assume ri,i^hts in virtue of an 
 old charter of Charles II., granteil in ICGU, that bearing a date 
 nearly 100 years before that this country had ceased to be an 
 ai)pcndage to the Crown of Franco, it pertuined to that of Great 
 Britain j 
 
 That under such pretended authorit}- said Hudson's Bay 
 Company assume a jiower to grant away and sell the lands 
 of the CroAvn, acquired by conquest and ceded to it by the 
 Treaty of 1G73 ; 
 
 That said Company have also assmued the ]»ower to enact 
 tariffs, collect customs dues, and levy taxes against British 
 subjects, and have enforced unjust and arbitrary la\v,s, in de- 
 liancc of every principle of right and justice. 
 
 Your petitioners more especially pray the attention of your 
 Honourable House to that region of country designated as the 
 Chartered Territory, over which said^ Company exercise a sove- 
 reignty in the soil as well as a nionoj)oly in the trade, and which 
 said Company claim as a right that insur(.'S to them In perpetuo, 
 in contradistinction to that portion of country over which they 
 claim an exclusive right of trade but for a limited period only. 
 
 Whilst your petitioners believe that this latter claim is 
 founded upon a legal right, they humbly subnut that a re- 
 newal of such license of exclusive trade is injurious to the 
 interests of the country so monopolised, and in contravention 
 of the rights of the inhabitants of Canada. 
 
 Your petitioners therefore humbly pray that your Honourable 
 House will take into consideration the subject of how far the 
 assumption of power on the part of the Hudson's Bay Company 
 
45 
 
 iiitc^rfcn'S with Civiindian I'i^'lits, and us to the iiccM'ssity of nioro 
 
 jKivticiilarly declaring tlic boundarir.s of Canada on tlui wcst- 
 
 Avard and on tlu> novtlnvard, and of extruding tlironi^liout tlio 
 
 ])rotcction of Canadian laws, and tlio Ijcnefits of Canadian iu- 
 
 HtitiitionH. 
 
 And your itotitlouei's, us in duty bound, will ever pray. 
 
 , .. ,, f Tfiomas Claiikson, VrrsideiU. 
 
 (Signed) \ ,, ,, ^. . 
 
 ^ ° ' LC'iiAHLEs lloBKUixoN, (Sccycfar^. 
 
 Petition of Inhdhitants and Xatii'i'n of the Setllemrnt ailuated on 
 the lied liivc)', in the Aaainiboiue Coiudvij, British ^'orth 
 A inevica. 
 
 To the Honourabk' tlio Legislative Assembly of the Proviiico of 
 Canada, in I'arlianient aasend)lcd. 
 The Petition of the undersigned Inhabitants and Natives of 
 the ISettleniunt .situated on tlu; lied lliver, in the Assiuiboino 
 Country, Britisli North America, 
 
 Humbly Siiewetii, 
 
 That many years ago a body of British cuiigrants were 
 induced to s(;ttlc in this country under very Uattering promises 
 made to them l)y the late Earl of Selkirk, and under certain 
 contracts. 
 
 All those promises and contracts wliich had led them to hope 
 that, protected by British laws, they would enjoy the fruits of 
 their labour, have been evaded. 
 
 On the coalition of the rival companies, many of us, Europeans 
 and Canadians, settled with our families around this nucleus of 
 civilization in the wilderness, in full expectation that none 
 would interrupt our enjoyment of those privileges which wo 
 believe to be oura by birthright, and which are secured to all 
 Her Majesty's subjects in any other British colony. 
 
 We have paid large sums of money to the Hudson's Biiy 
 Company for land, yet we cannot obtain deeds for the same. 
 The Company's agents have made several attempts to force 
 upon us deeds which would reduce ourselves and our posterity 
 to the most abject slavery under that body. As evidence of 
 this, we append a copy of such deeds as have been offered to ns 
 for signature. 
 
 Under what we believe to bo a fictitious charter, but whicli 
 
 E 2 
 
46 
 
 the Company's agents have maintained to be the fundamental 
 law of " Rupert's Land," we have been prevented the receiving 
 in exchange the peltries of our country for any of the products 
 of our labour, and have beon forbidden giving peltries in ex- 
 change for any of the imported necessaries of life, under the 
 penalty of being imprisoned, and of having our property con- 
 fiscated ; we have been forbidden to take peltries in exchange 
 even for food supplied to famishing Indians. 
 
 The Hudson's Bay Company's clerks, with an armed police, 
 have entered into settlers' houses in quest of furs, and con- 
 fiscated all they found. One poor settler, after having his 
 goods seized, had his house burnt to the ground, and after- 
 wards was conveyed prisoner to York Factory. 
 
 The Company's first legal ad/iser in this colony has declared 
 our navigating the lakes and rivers between this colony and 
 Hudson's Bay with any articles of our produce to be illegal. 
 The same authority has declared our selling of English goods in 
 this colony to be illegal. 
 
 On our annual commercial journeys into Miunesott., we have 
 been pursued like felons by armed constables, who searched our 
 property, even by breaking open our trunks : all furs found 
 were confiscated. 
 
 This interference with those of aboriginal descent had been 
 carried to such extent as to endanger the peace of the settle- 
 ment. 
 
 Thus we, the inhabitants of this land, have been and are 
 constrained to behold the valuable commercial productions of 
 our country exported for the exclusive j^rofit of a company of 
 traders who are strangers to ourselves and to our countrv. 
 
 We are by necessity comi)elled to use many articles of their 
 importation, for which we pay from one hundred to four hun- 
 dred per cent, on prime cost, while we aie prohibited exporting 
 those productions of our own country and industry which we 
 could exchange for the necess-aries of life. 
 
 This country is governed and legislated for by two distinct 
 Legislative Councils, in constituting of which we have no 
 voice, the members of the highest holding their ofiice of 
 councillors by virtue of rank in the Company's service. This 
 body passes laws affecting our interest ; as, for instance, in 
 
47 
 
 1845 it decreed that 20 per cent, duty would be levied on the 
 imports of all who were .suspected of trading in furs ; this duty 
 to be paid at York Factory. Again, in 1 854, the same body 
 passed a resolution imposing 12^ per cent, on all the goods 
 landed for the colony at York Factory. 
 
 The Local Legislature consists of the Governor, who is also 
 judge, and who holds his appointments from the Company : 
 they are appointed by the same body, and are, with one or two 
 exceptions, to a greater or less extent dependent on that body. 
 This Council imposes taxes, creates offences, and i)unishes the 
 same by fines and imprisonments, (i. e.) the Governor and 
 Council make the laws, judge the laws, and execute their own 
 sentence. We have no voice in their selection, neither have 
 we any constitutional means of controlling their action. 
 
 Our laiids are fertile, and easily cultivated, but the exchisive 
 system of Hudson's Bay Company effectually prohibits the 
 tiller of the soil, as well as the adventurer in any other industrial 
 pui*suit, from devoting his energies to those labours which, 
 while producing to the individual prosperity and wealth, con- 
 tribute to the general advantage of the settlement at large. 
 
 Under this system our energies are paralysed, and discontent 
 is increasing to such a d(!gree, that events fatal to British 
 interest, and particularly to the interest of Canada, and even 
 to civilization and humanity, may soon take place. 
 
 Our country is bordering on Minnesota territory ; a trade 
 for some years has been carried on between us. We are there 
 met by very high duties on all articles which we import into 
 that territory, the benefits of the Reciprocity Treaty not being 
 extended to us. Notwithstanding this, the trade has gone on 
 increasing, and will continue to do so ; we have already great 
 cause to envy those laws and those commex'cial advantages 
 which we see enjoyed by our neighbours, and which, wherever 
 they exist, are productive of prosperity and wealth. 
 
 As British subjects, we desire that the same liberty and 
 fi'eedom of commerce, as well as security of property, may be 
 granted to us as is enjoyed in all other possessions of the 
 British Crown, which liberty is become essentially necessary to 
 our prosperity, and to the tranquillity of this colony. 
 
 We believe that the colony in which we live is a portion of 
 
48 
 
 that territory which became attached to the Crown of England 
 by the Treaty cf 1703, and that tlie dominion heretofore exer- 
 cised by the Hudson's Bay Company is a nsurpation anta- 
 gonistic to civilization and to the best interests of the Canadian 
 people?, whose laws, being extended to us, will guarantee the 
 enjoyment of those rights and liberties which would leave 
 us nothing to envy in the institutions of the neighbouring 
 territory. 
 
 When wo contemplate the mighty tide of immigration which 
 has flowed towards the north these six years past, and has 
 already filled the valley of the Upper Mississippi with settlers, 
 and which will this year flow over the height of land and fill 
 u]) the valley of the Red River, is tliere no danger of being 
 carried away by that flood, and that we may thereby lose our 
 nationality 1 We love the British name ! Wo are proud of 
 that glorious fabric, the British Constitution, raised by the 
 wisdom, cemented and hallowed by the blood, of our fore- 
 fathers. 
 
 Wo have represented our grievances to tlic Imperial Govern- 
 ment, but, through the chicanery of the Company and its false 
 representations, we have not been heard, and much less have 
 our grievances been redressed. It would seem, therefore, that 
 we have no other choice than the Canadian plough and print- 
 ing press, or the American rifle and Fugitive Slave law. 
 
 We, therefore, as dutiful and loyal subjects of the British 
 Crown, humbly pray that your Honourable House will take 
 into your immediate consideration the subject of this our 
 petition, and that such measures may be devised and adopted 
 as will extend to us the protection of the Canadian Govern- 
 ment, laws, and institutions, and make us equal participators in 
 those rights and liberties enjoyed by British subjects in what- 
 ever part of the world they reside. 
 
 Wherefore, your petitioners will ever pray. 
 
 (Signed) Hoderick Kennedy, 
 
 and 574 others. 
 
 So overwhelming was the evidence adduced 
 before the Committee in favour of the claims of 
 Canada, that Mr. Edward Ellice, in his evidence, 
 
 ) 
 
49 
 
 ! 
 
 made the following statement on behalf of the 
 Hudson's Bay Company : — 
 
 But I take this question of boundary to be a question of no 
 importance at all. If the province of Canada requires any part 
 of this territory, or the whole of it, for purposes of settlement, 
 it ought not to be permitted for one moment to remain in the 
 hands of the Hudson's Bay Company ; and, at the same time, 
 less money than would be spent in a litigation upon the subject 
 would be sufficient to indemnify the Hudson's Bay Company 
 for any claim which they could have in giving up any disputed 
 part of their territory. We attach very much importance to 
 these questions, which are, in fact, of no importance in them- 
 selves. It would be much more, for instance^ for the interest 
 of the Hudson's Bay Company to bo upon a cordial and good 
 understanding with the Government of Canada, than to have 
 any disputed question of right with respect to a certain quantity 
 of land which can be of no use to the Hudson's Bay Company, 
 and which may be of use to the people of Canada. 
 
 The Committee, therefore, relying on the good 
 faith of the Company, made the following report 
 to the House : — 
 
 1. The near approach of the period when the license of ex- 
 clusive trade granted in 1838 for 21 years to the Hudson's Bay 
 Company over that North- Western portion of British America 
 which goes by the name of the Indian Territory, must expire, 
 would alone make it necessary that the condition of the whole 
 of the vast regions which are under the administration of the 
 Company should be carefully considen^l ; but there are other 
 circumstances which, in the opinion of your Committee, would 
 have rendered such a course the duty of the Parliament and 
 Government of this countrv. 
 
 2. Among these, your Committee would specially enumerate, 
 — the growing desire of our Canadian fellow-subjects that the 
 means of extension and regular settlement should be afforded to 
 them over a portion of this territory ; the necessity of provid- 
 ing suitably for the administration of the affairs of Vancouver's 
 
50 
 
 I ^M 
 
 Island, and the present condition of the settlement which has 
 been formed on the Red River. 
 
 3. Your Committee have received much valuable evidence on 
 these and other subjects connected with the inquiry which has 
 been entrusted to them, and especially have had the advantage 
 of hearing the statements of Chief Justice Draper, who was 
 commissioned by the Government of Canada to watch this 
 inquiry. In addition to this, your Committee have received 
 the evidence taken before a Committee of the Legislative 
 Assembly, appointed to investigate this subject, containing 
 much valuable information in reference to the interests and 
 feelings of that important colony, which are entitled to the 
 greatest weight on this occasion. 
 
 7. Among the various objects of imperial policy which it is 
 important to attain, your Committee consider that it is essential 
 to meet the just and reasonable wishes of Canada to be enabled 
 to annex to her territory such jjortion of the land in her neigh- 
 bourhood as may be available to her for the purposes of settle- 
 ment, with which lands she is willing to open and maintain 
 communication, and for which she will provide the means of 
 local administration. Your Committee apprehend that the 
 districts on the Red River and the Saskatchewan are among 
 those likely to be desired for early occupation. It is of gi'eat 
 importance that the peace and good order of those districts 
 should be effectually secured. Your Committee trust that there 
 will be no difficulty in effecting arrangements as between Her 
 Majesty's Government and the Hudson's Bay Company by which 
 these districts may be ceded to Canada on equitable principles, 
 and within the districts thus annexed to her the authority of 
 the Hudson's Bay Company would, of course, entirely cease. 
 
 8. Your Committee think it best to content themselves with 
 indicating the outlines of such a scheme, leaving it to Her 
 Majesty's Government to consider its details more maturely 
 before the Act of Parliament is prepared, which will probably 
 be necessary to carry it into effect. 
 
 In case, however, Canada should not be willing at a very 
 early period to undertake the government of the Red River 
 district, it may be proper to consider whether some tem2)orary 
 provision for its administration may not be advisable. 
 
51 
 
 Following out the recommendations of tlio 
 report of the Committee, Her Majesty's Govern- 
 ment addressed a letter to the Hudson's Bay 
 Company on the 20tli January, 1858, asking, 
 amongst other things, if the Company would con- 
 sent to relinquish the Red River and Saskatchewan 
 country for the purpose of being colonized and 
 annexed to Canada, to which the Governor of the 
 Company replied as follows : — 
 
 In communicating this assent on the part of the Hudson' fj 
 Bay Comijany, it is, however, right to notice that the territories 
 mentioned as those that may probably be first desired by the 
 Government of Canada, namely, the Red Eiver and Saskatche- 
 wan districts, are not only valuable to the Hudson's Bay 
 Company as stations for carrying on the fur trade, but that 
 they are also of peculiar value to the Company as being the 
 only source from which the Company's annual stock of pro- 
 visions is drawn, particularly the staple article of pemican, a 
 regular supply of which is absolutely necessary to enable the 
 officers of the Company to transport their goods to the nume- 
 rous inland and distant stations, and to feed and maintain the 
 people, both European and Indian, stationed thereat. It is 
 proper, therefore, that I should draw your attention to the fact, 
 that the ultimate loss of these districts will most probably 
 involve the Hudson's Buy Company in very serious difficulties, 
 and cause a great increase of expense in conducting their trade. 
 The Company assume that the Canadian Government will be 
 responsible for the preservation of peace and the maintenance 
 of law and order in all the territories ceded to them, and that 
 they will prevent lawless and dishonest adventurers from in- 
 fringing from thence the rights of the Company over the 
 remaining portion? of their territories. 
 
 It is important to compare the foregoing state- 
 ments with that of the evidence of Mr. EUice before 
 the Committee of the House of Commons. On the 
 

 22nd of the same month, the Colonial Minister 
 (Mr. Labouchere) addressed a despatch to the 
 Governor-General of Canada, asking the Govern- 
 ment of Canada to consent to an arrangement 
 which would have prevented them from raising the 
 question of the validity of the Company's charter, 
 and to which the following were sent by way of 
 reply : — 
 
 Government House, Toronto, Canada West, 
 
 Aicgust IGth, 1858. 
 Sir, 
 
 I have the honour to enclose a joint Address from the 
 
 Legislative Council and Assembly of Canada to Her Majesty 
 
 the Queen on the subject of the territory of the Hudson's Bay 
 
 Company, which I request may be laid at the foot of the 
 
 throne, 
 
 I have, &c., 
 (Signed) Edmund Head. 
 
 The Right Hon. Sir E. B. Lytton, Bart.; 
 
 &c. &c. &c. 
 
 Enclosure in No. 1. 
 
 To the Queen's most Excellent Majesty. 
 Most Gracious Sovereign, 
 
 We, Your Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects, the 
 Legislative Council and Commons of Canada in Pro- 
 vincial Parliament assembled, humbly approach Your 
 Majesty for the purpose of representing — 
 That the approaching termination of the License of Trade 
 granted by Your Majesty's Imperial Government to the 
 Hudson's Bay Company over the Ind'an territories, a portion 
 of which, in our humble opinion, Canada has a right to claim 
 as forming part of her territory, renders imperative the ado})- 
 tion of such measures as may be necessary to give efFcct to the 
 rights of the province, and presents a favourable opportunity 
 for obtaining a final decision on the validity of the charter of 
 
68 
 
 the Company, and the boundaiy of Canada on the north and 
 west. 
 
 That Canada, whose rights stand affected by that charter, to 
 which she was not a party, and the validity of which has been 
 questioned 'for more than a century and a-half, has, in our 
 humble opinion, a right to request from Your Majesty's Impe- 
 rial Government a decision of this question, with a view of 
 putting an end to discussions and questions of conflicting rights, 
 prejudicial as well to Your Majesty's Imperial Government as 
 to Canada, and which while unsettled must prevent the colo- 
 nization of the country. 
 
 That the settlement of the boundary line is immediately re- 
 quired, and that therefore we humbly pray Your Majesty that 
 the subject thereof may be forthwith submitted for the opinion 
 of the Judicial Committee of Your Majesty's Privy Cuuncilj 
 but without restriction as to any question Canada may deem it 
 proper to present on the validity of the said charter or for ,the 
 maintenance of her rights. 
 
 That any renewal of the license to trade over the Indian 
 territories should, in our humble opinion, be granted only upon 
 the conditions that such portions thereof, or of the other terri- 
 tories claimed by the Company (even if their charter be held 
 valid), as may be required from time to time to be set apart by 
 Canada or by Your Majesty's Government into settlements for 
 colonization, should, as so required, be withdrawn from Tinder 
 any such license and the jurisdiction and control of the said 
 Company, and that Your Majesty's Government, or the 
 Governor- General in Council, should be permitted to grant 
 licenses to trade in any portions of the said territories while 
 held by or in occupation of the said Company, upon such con- 
 ditions for the observance of law and the preservation of the 
 peace, for the prohibition or restriction of the sale of ardent 
 spirits, for the protection of Indian tribes from injury or 
 imposition, and with such other provisions as to Your Ma- 
 jesty's Government or to His Excellency in Council may seem 
 advisable. 
 
 That, in our humble opinion, Canada should not be called 
 upon to compensate the said Company for any portion of such 
 territory from which they may withdraw or be compelled to 
 
54 
 
 withdraw, but that the said Company should be allowed to 
 retain and dispose of any portion of the lands thereof on which 
 they have built or improved. 
 
 All which we humbly pray Your Majesty to take into Your 
 Majesty's gracious and favourable consideration. 
 
 (Signed) N. F. Belleau, 
 
 Speaker, L.C. 
 (Signed) 
 
 Legislative Council, Toronto, 
 
 Uth August, 1858. 
 Legislative Assembly Hall, Toronto, 
 
 13th August, 1858. 
 
 Henry Smith, 
 
 Speaker, L.A. 
 
 Copy of a Despatch from the Right Honourable Sir Edmund 
 
 Head, Bart., to the Eight Ilonourahle Sir Edward Bulweh 
 
 Lytton, Bart. 
 
 (No. 117.) 
 
 Quebec, Sejjtember 9th, 1858. 
 
 Sir, (Received 22ncl Septembe?', 1858.) 
 
 T have the honour to enclose a copy of a minute of the 
 Executive Council of Canada, approved by myself this day, 
 respecting the joint Address of both Houses of the Provincial 
 Legislature on the subject of the Hudson's Bay territory, and 
 the questions connected therewith. 
 
 I fully concur with ray Council in the importance of this 
 
 matter, and would press its consideration on Her Majesty's 
 
 Government. 
 
 I have, &c., 
 
 (Signed) Edmund Head. 
 
 The Eight Hon. Sir E. B. Lytton, Bart., 
 
 &o. &c. &c. 
 
 Enclosure in No. 2. 
 
 Copy of a Report of a Committee of the Honourable the Executive 
 Council, dated the ith September, 1858, approved by His 
 Excellency the Governor-General in Council on the 9th 
 September, 1858. 
 
 The Committee of Council respectfully recommend that the 
 
55 
 
 ReHolutions passed by the Legislative Council and the Legis- 
 lative Assembly, and the joint Address thereon of both Houses, 
 on the subject of the Hudson's Bay territory, be urged upon 
 the attention of tlie Imperial Government by such members 
 of the Executive Council as may be in London during this 
 present autumn, and that, at the same time, the importance of 
 opening a direct line of communication by railway, or other- 
 wise, from Canada, through the Red Hiver and Saskatchewan 
 territories, to Eraser's River and Vancouver's Island, be brought 
 by thi u under the notice of the Imperial authorities. 
 
 (A true copy.) 
 
 (Signed) Edmund Head. . 
 
 The two following letters sufficiently indicate 
 the policy of Lord Derby's Administration on 
 this question : — 
 
 Downing Street, 
 
 Zrd November^ 1858. 
 
 Sir, 
 
 I am directed by Secretary Sir E. B. Lytton to 
 acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 12th October. 
 
 Sir E. B. Lytton will not conceal the disappointment and 
 regret with which he has received that communication, con- 
 taining, if he understands its tenor correctly, a distinct refusal 
 on the part of the Hudson's Bay Company to entertain any 
 proposal with a view to adjusting the conflicting claims of Great 
 Britain, of Canada, and of the Company, or to join with Her 
 Majesty's Government in affording reasonable facilities for the 
 settlement of questions in which imperial no less than colonial 
 interests are involved. 
 
 It is Sir E. B. Lvtton's anxious desire to come to some 
 equitable and conciliatory arrangement by which all legitimate 
 claims of the H\idson's Bay Company should be fairly considered, 
 in reference to the territories or privileges they may be required 
 to surrender ; but if the decision, as conveyed in your letter, be 
 regarded as final, all power to facilitate such an arrangement is 
 withdrawn from his hands. By that decision Sir E. B. Lytton 
 
66 
 
 sees with regret tliat a ])roces3 of temperate ajul ninicablc in- 
 quiry and adjudication must bo cxchiiuged ior a legal (x*nllict> 
 ■vvhero all j)arties concerned will bo brought into antagonistic 
 and oven hostile relations, and where it is manifest that the 
 terms of compensation, compromise, and mutual convenience, 
 which Her Majesty's Government would, under other circum- 
 stances, have been able tu ncgociate, must become far more 
 difficult of attainment, if not actually unattainable. 
 
 Unsatisfactory as this result would be. Sir E. 13. Lyttou 
 will not feel at liberty to decline it. Ho desires that the 
 Hudson's l>ay Company should distinctly understand, that in 
 his opinion the time for arriving at some authoritative defini- 
 tion of conflicting claims can no longer be postponed with !;afety 
 or in ju;itico to public interests, and that both Canada and the 
 British Parliament might justly complain of further and un- 
 necessary delay. 
 
 But before deciding finally upon the course to be pursued, he 
 desires to place once more the question before the Hudson's 
 Bay Company, with a sincere hope that on a fuller consideration 
 they may see the expediency of modifying the determination 
 which your letter announced. 
 
 Where on all sides interests so great and various are con- 
 cerned, the wisest and most dignified cour.se will be found, as 
 Sir E. B. Lytton has on previous occasions pointed out, in an 
 appeal to and a decision by the Judicial Committee of the Privy 
 Council, with the concurrence alike of Canada and of the Hud- 
 son's Bay Company. 
 
 If the adoption of such a procedure be advantageous to the 
 interests of all parties concerned, Sir Edward cannot but think 
 it would be particularly for the interest of the Hudson's Bay 
 Company. It would afford a tribunal pre-eminently fitted for 
 the dispassionate consideration of the questions at issue ; it 
 would secure a decision which would probably be rather of the 
 iiature of an arbitration than of a judgment ; and it would 
 furnish a basis of negociation on which reciprocal concession 
 and the claims for compensation could be most succe.ssfully 
 discussed. 
 
 In such an event Sir E. Lytton would be prepared to agree 
 that the Company, if they succeed in maintaining the full rights 
 
57 
 
 which they claim, should be intlenmilicd against tho costs, and 
 that ill any other result it .should bo understood that euch party 
 should bear its own expenses incident to the proceeding. 
 
 It is not for Sir E, Lytton to dictate to tho Company tho 
 course which thiiy should pursue, but I- am to place distinctly 
 bel'oro them his own intentions, and to leave thera to decide. 
 
 If, on the ono hand, the Comi)any will meet Sir E. B. Lytton 
 in finding tho solution for a recognised difficulty, and will under- 
 take to give allreasonable facilities fur trying the validity of their 
 disputed charter, they may be assured that they will meet with 
 fair and liberal treatment, so far as Her .Majesty's CfOV(;rnment 
 are concerned; but if, on the other hand, the ]Iudson's Bay 
 Company persist in declining these terms, and can suggest no 
 other practicable mode of agreement, Sir E. B. Lytton must hold 
 himself acquitted of further responsibility to the interests of 
 the Hudson's Bay Comjiany, and will take the necessary steps 
 for closing a controversy too long open, and for securing a defi- 
 nite decision which is duo to the material development of 
 British North America, and the retpiirements of an advancing 
 civilization. It is only fair to add, that in such case the re- 
 newal of the exclusive license to trade in any part of the Indian 
 territory, a renewal which could only be justified to Parliament 
 as part of a general arrangement, adjusted on the principle of 
 mutual concession, must become impossible. 
 
 I have, (fcc, 
 
 (Signed) Carnarvon. 
 H. H. Berens, Esq. 
 
 Downing Street, 
 Sir, March Otii, 18G9. 
 
 I am directed by Secretary Sir E. B, Lytton to 
 acknowledge your letter of tho 8th February last, conveying, 
 on the part of the Directors of tho Hudson's Bay Company, 
 their refusal to entertain the proposal which he had caused to 
 be submitted to them, that Her Majesty should be advised to 
 renew their license of exclusive trade with the Indians for 
 a year. 
 
 Your letter, however, goes also at considerable length into a 
 general statement of the present position of the Hudson's Bay 
 Company, and defence of its conduct ; and it becomes necessary 
 
58 
 
 that 'Hir E. Lyttou should outer upon tlint wider fiohl of dis- 
 cussion, so far at least as may ho required in order to justify 
 the proceedings of Iter I\h»jesty's Government, heforc ho replies 
 to the more ur!,'ent part of your communiciitiou. 
 
 1 am to state at the outHct that Sir JC. B. Lyttou has received 
 from the (iovernur of Canada a despatch, copy of which ia 
 enclosed, informing' him that the local f,'ovcrnment recpiire to 
 consult the Legislature hefure deciding whether they will ov 
 will not undertake legal proceedings against the Company. 
 
 Sir E. Lyttou, in legretting this delay, trusts that it will not 
 be much prolonged. It is obviously due to Caiuida, on a 
 matter in which she is so much concerned, to grant a reasoiuxble 
 time for a definite answer from the province ; but as it is also 
 desirable that the whole cpu'stion regarding the charter ter- 
 ritories should be settled in the course of the })resent session, 
 it is Sir Edward's intention to inform the Governor-General 
 of Canada that if the answer does not arrive by the Ist of ]May, 
 Her Majesty's Government must feel themselves free to act. 
 
 To return to the general subject of your letter. The late 
 Government, as your letter recites, were willing to test before 
 the Judicial Committee, not the existence but the extent of 
 the rights claimed under the charter. To this proposal the 
 Company assented, but Canada declined to take part in an 
 inquiry so limited. Whatever the original advantages of such 
 a scheme may have been, the refusal of Canada to take part in 
 the proceedings absolutely mullified it. A decision as to the 
 limits of the charter, waiving the question as to its general 
 validity, could, after that refusal, have bound no one except 
 the mere parties to the jjroceeding, and would have been prac- 
 tically useless. 
 
 That refusal was only conveyed to Sir E. B. Lytton by de- 
 spatch from Canada of the 16th August last. I am to notice 
 this, only to show that Her Majesty's Government are charge- 
 able with no unnecessary delay, having, notwithstanding the 
 great importance of the subject, allowed as little time as possible 
 to elapse without taking steps in the transaction. 
 
 Her Majesty's Government had now to consider what effect 
 they could give to the 13th Resohition of the Committee of 
 the House of Commons, in which, after specifying the princi pal 
 
objects which) thoy thought desirabU', added, " TIosv fur tho 
 chartered rights claimed by tho Coiupaiiy may nrovo an 
 obstacle to their attainiimnt they are not able, with any cer- 
 tainty, to say. It this difticulty is to be solved by aniicablo 
 ndjuatiueut, such a coui'so will be best i)roiaoted by the CioverU" 
 ment, after communication with the Coinjiany, as well as with 
 tho Government of Canada, rather than by detailed .suggestiona, 
 emanating from this Committee." 
 
 With tho best attention which thoy could give to this rccon)- 
 mendation, Her Majesty's Government could not but see the 
 fairest and most direct method to accomplish it was to test 
 not tho limits, but the validity of the charter itself, and they 
 were and remain of opinion that this was best done by the 
 consent of the three parties concerned. 
 
 Sir E. B. Lytton is well aware of the proposals made by the 
 Company in Captain Shepherd's letter of 18th July, ISaT, 
 which aro referred to (and a little extended as regards Sas- 
 katchewan) in yours which he is now answering. Ho must be 
 permitted to say, that those pro^tosals, though conceived with 
 the sincerest desire to avoid litigation, by no means met tho 
 exigencies of the case. 
 
 Those proposals simply were (for the present purpose) to 
 relinquish to Government " land fit for cultivation and the 
 establishment of agricultural settlers," land as yet unascertained, 
 and in all probability for the present but trifling in extent. 
 Such an offer he could hardly have consideiod from the begin- 
 ning sufficient ; but it has become from subsequent causes 
 (using the phrase without the slightest imputation on the 
 motives of those who made it) illusory. The occupation of 
 British Columbia has rendered more urgent than ever a policy 
 even before that time recommended hy the course of events, 
 namely, to connect the two sides of British North America 
 without the obstacle interposed by a proprietary jurisdiction 
 between them. The difficulty of maintaining the jui'isdiction 
 of the Hudson's Bay Company over that intervening region 
 becomes daily more evident, and the certainty also that if any 
 attempt were made to maintain it, Her Majesty's Government 
 would be called on to furnish the means. On the other hand, 
 it appears to be the general opinion among lawyers that the 
 
 V 
 
60 
 
 monopoly of trade claimed by the Company (under the charter) 
 is invalid altogether ; and that this monopoly could only bo 
 defended indirectly by pushing to extreme limits the conse- 
 quence of a most invidious territorial grant, enabling the Com- 
 pany, as landlords, to exclude traders as trespassers. Sir 
 E. B. Lytton cannot at all, therefore, agree with the Directors 
 in referring the precarious position of the Company to the mere 
 general unpopularity of monopolies. The weakness of their 
 case arose, and still arises, from causes far more special and 
 urgent ; and it was obviously to be apprehended that Her Ma- 
 jesty's Government might, as protectors of tlie rights of her 
 subjects generally throughout the empire, be called on to defend 
 the claimants of assumed rights which had never been fairly 
 submitted to investigation. It was quite impossible for them 
 to be contented, in the interest of the public, with such offers 
 as the Company had made, and to leave the general question 
 unsettled ; and to settle it without the assent of the Company 
 was at least to be avoided until that assent had been formally 
 invoked. 
 
 It was with this view that the letters addressed to you from 
 this Department on the 3rd September and 3rd November last, 
 to which you refer, were written. And it was with the same 
 view that Sir Edward Lytton endeavoured, during the stay 
 of the Canadian Ministers in England, last autumn, to induce 
 them to bring Canada to a decision as to her part in the pro- 
 ceedings to be taken. 
 
 And Sir Edward Lytton feels it due to himself and his col- 
 leagues to disclaim most distinctly the supposition, expressed 
 or implied, that the proposal conveyed to the Company in those 
 letters was conceived in any spirit of hostility. On the con- 
 trary, it is his conviction now, as it was when those letters were 
 written, that the Directors would consult the interest of their 
 shareholders most effectively by causing it to be accepted. In 
 this way all outstanding questions could be solved. Sir Edward 
 Bulwer Lytton felt that if the decision of the Judicial Committee 
 was in favour of the Company, and to the full extent claimed, 
 then the Company would stand in a more advantageous position 
 before the country, in claiming compensation for ascertained 
 rights, if required to relinquish them for the public benefit, 
 
61 
 
 er) 
 
 bo 
 
 than they possibly could at present. If, on the other hand, 
 the decision of that Committee were unfavourable to the Com- 
 pany, they would at all events still possess that claim to equit- 
 able consideration to which long usuage, and the investment 
 of extensive capital on the faith of supposed rights, might fairly 
 entitle them ; and although Her Majesty's Government could 
 not, of course, give any distinct pledge in this latter event, no 
 one acquainted with the general desire of Parliament to do 
 justice to vested interests would be likely to apprehend serious 
 danger. 
 
 In short, as the main and perhaps the sole practical difficulty 
 in coming to the most amicable arrangements with the Com- 
 pany, appears to lie in ascertaining, not so much tho amount of 
 compensation, as the principle and mode on which it can be 
 assessed with the approval of Parliament, so that difficulty 
 appeared at once to be surmounted by ascertaining, without 
 dispute, the nature of the right upon which claims for com- 
 pensation may be fairly based. 
 
 The Directors, however, judged differently from Sir Edward 
 Bulwer Lytton on this question. Sir Edward does not question 
 their right to decide as they thought best for the interests of 
 their Shareholders. He can only express his regret at a deter- 
 mination which retains the veiy difficulty in the way of speedy 
 and amicable settlement which he had sought to remove. As 
 the case now stands, should Canada resort to legal proceedings, 
 negociation is, of course, at an end until the result of such pro- 
 ceedings is known. Should she refuse to do so, it will then be 
 for Sir Edward Bulwer Lytton to consider whether negociation 
 with the Company can be resumed, or whether, in the last 
 resort, Her Majesty's Government must take the matter into 
 their own hands, and proceed on their own account as they may 
 be advised. But in any case he can with justice assure the 
 Directors that his determination will be founded on a regard to 
 public interests only, and without the slightest bias of hostility 
 towards the Company. 
 
 It remains for me to convey Sir E. B. Lytton's reply to the 
 immediately practical part of your letter, that referring to the 
 renewal of your license over the non-charter territories. 
 
 The Directors reject his offer of a year's license, but they are 
 
 F 2 
 
62 
 
 ready (in the public interest) to accept a renewal for twenty-one 
 years, terminable at two years' notice. 
 
 Sir E. B. Lytton is sorry he cannot meet their views by 
 acceding to this proposal, although he can well conceive, and 
 would indeed desire, arrangements by which the Indian terri- 
 tory, and all land not likely to be soon colonizable, might be 
 left to the jurisdiction of the Company, provided, on the other 
 hand, the lands adapted for colonization were surrendered to the 
 Crown ; yet while the latter object remains unachieved, he does 
 not believe that Parliament or the public would be inclined or 
 ought to assent to a measure which would give Her Majesty's 
 Government, in concert with the Company, the power of con- 
 tinuing the license for twenty-one years. 
 
 But he wishes to show every reasonable respect to the argu- 
 ment which you draw from the distance of many of the posts 
 in the license territory, which, by rendering communication with 
 them extremely slow, would make a year's extension of com- 
 paratively trifling importance for the purposes in view. The 
 ielay in obtaining the decision of Canada may also be fairly 
 iaken into consideration as opposing obstacles to arrangements 
 with the Company by which the objection to an ultimate ex- 
 tension of the license might be removed. He is ready, therefore, 
 to make the extension of two years' duration instead of one. 
 
 In making this proposal he believes he is acting in the 
 interests of the Company, even in a pecuniary sense alone j 
 that, however, is a question for the Directors and Shareholders, 
 and not for himself. He only refers to it in order to show how 
 far he is from being actuated by any motives inimical to the 
 Company. But the really important aspect of the question (us 
 the Directors will fully agree with him) is that which regards 
 the maintenance of peace and ordei', and the welfare of the 
 Indian race ; and while he believes that the dangers represented 
 as likely to arise if the trade of the Company ceased to be pro- 
 tected by license are much exaggerated, yet he is desirous to 
 guard against the possibility of such dangers during the interval 
 that must elapse necessarily (without any fault of his own) 
 between the abrupt termination of the Company's jurisdiction 
 in parts so remote and the establishment of any other machinery 
 for the safety of the Indians which it might be in the power of 
 
68 
 
 the Ooverument to devise. He is certain that the Directors 
 will take a similar view of this part of the question, and he is 
 satisfied that if they reject his present offer, they will do so on 
 full conviction, from their own superior knowledge, that no evil 
 consequences are to be apprehended from the sudden termination 
 of their license. But should this be an error in judgment on 
 their part, the responsibility for the consequences will not lie 
 with Her Majesty's Gove-nment. 
 
 Sir E. B. Lytton trusts that as early an answer as practicable 
 may be returned to this letter, as little time is left for com- 
 municating with the Governor of British Columbia before the 
 termination of the license ; and it may be necessary (in the 
 event of your refusal) to apply to Parliament for an amend- 
 ment of the present Acts. 
 
 I have, &c., 
 (Signed) H. Merivale. 
 H. H. Berens, Esq. 
 
 In 1858 the North-West Transit Company was 
 Incorporated hy the Canadian ParUament with the 
 fohowing powers : — To trade in furs, taUow, buffalo 
 meat, hides, fish oil, and other articles of com- 
 merce, to improve and make navigable the various 
 channels of such communication, to construct tracks 
 of roads, tramways, and railways between navi- 
 gable lakes and rivers, so as to provide facilities 
 for transport from the shores of Lake Superior to 
 Fraser River ; to own and employ vessels of all 
 kinds upon Lakes Huron and Superior, and upon 
 all the waters, lakes, and rivers lying to the north- 
 ward and the westward of the latter, thereby offer- 
 ing to their energy and their enterprise a new and 
 vast field for commercial enterprise. 
 
 This Act of Incorporation was amended in 1861, 
 giving the Company still greater powers. 
 
 These several Acts were recommended for the 
 
64 
 
 Royal Assent by the Governor-General of Canada, 
 and now Governor of the Hudson's Bay Company. 
 It is therefore almost hnpossible of belief that 
 the man, who as Governor-General of Canada 
 furnished the foregoing evidence to Her Majesty's 
 Government and the English Parliament from 
 1857 to 1861, should, as Governor of the Hudson's 
 Bay Company in 1803, have put his name at the 
 head of a Prospectus as follows : — 
 
 The International Financial' Society, Limited, are pre- 
 pared to receive Subscriptions for tlie inane at i)ar of Capital 
 Stock ill tlie Hudson's Bay Company, incorporated by Royal 
 Charter, 1670. 
 
 'J'iie Stock will bo issued in Certificates of .£20 each, and the 
 instalments will be payable as follows ; — 
 
 £1, being 5 jier cent., on Application, to be returned in the 
 event of no Allotment being made ; £4, being 20 per cent., on 
 Allotment; £o, being 25 per cent., on 1st September, 18G3 ; 
 M, being 25 per cent., on 2nd November, 1863; £5, being 
 25 per cent., on 1st January, 1864 ; total .£20. With an option 
 of prepayment in full on Allotment, or on either of the days 
 fixed for payment of the instalments, under discount, at the 
 rate of 4 per cent, per annum. 
 
 The Cj4)ital (tf the Hudson's Bay Company has been duly 
 fixed at £2,000,000, of which amount the International Finan- 
 cial Society, Limited, have obtained, and are prepared to offer to 
 the public, .£1,030,000. 
 
 The Subscribers will be entitled to an interest, corresponding 
 to the amount of their subscription, in — 
 
 1. The assets (exclusive of Nos. 2 and 3) of the Hudson's 
 
 Bay Company, recently and .specially valued by com- 
 petent valuers at £1,023,569. 
 
 2. The Landed Territory of tho Comjiany, held under their 
 
 Charter, and which extends over an estimated area of 
 more than 1,400,000 s(juare miles, or upwards of 
 896,000,000 acres. 
 
 3. A Cash Balance of £370,000. 
 
65 
 
 The present net income, available for dividend amongst 
 Stockholders of the Comjiany, secnrrs a minimum interest 
 exceeding 4 per cunt, on the above £2,000,000 Stock. 
 
 The Directors of the Iludsoiis Bay Comimny are as tmder : — 
 
 The Right Honourable Sir Edmund Head, Bart., K.C.B., (late 
 
 Governor-General of Canada,) Governor. 
 CuuTis Miranda Lampson, Esq., (C. M. Lampson & Co.,) 
 
 Deputy-Governor. 
 Eden Colville, Esq., Hudson's Bay House, Fenchurch Street. 
 George Lyall, Esq., M.P., Headley Park, Surrey. 
 Daniel Meinertzhagen, Esq. (F. Huth & Co.). 
 James Stewart Hodgson, Esq. (Finlay, Hodgson, »k Co.). 
 John Henry William Sciiro])er, Esq. (J. H. Schroder & Co.). 
 KiCHARD Potter, Esq., Standish House, Gloucestershire. 
 
 The Ihulson^s Bay Comjyany loere incorporated under a Royal 
 Charter (/ranted by Kiny Charles II. in 1670, by the name of 
 " JVic Governor and Company of Adve}durers of Enyland trading 
 into Hndson's Bay" and, by the Charter, a vast tract of territory 
 loas vested in the Company, together loith the sole right of trade 
 and commerce, and all " mines royal,^'' as well then discovered as 
 -not discovered, within tlie said territory. 
 
 The operations of the Company, which, with slight excep- 
 tions, liavo been hitherto exclusively of a trading characKT, 
 have been prosecuted from the date of the charter to the 
 present day. 
 
 It has become evident that the time has arrived when those 
 operations must be extended, and the immense resources of the 
 Company's territory, lying as it does between Canada and British 
 Columbia, should be developed in accordance with the industrial 
 spirit of the age, and the rapid advancement which colonization 
 has made in the countries adjacent to the Hudson Bay Terri- 
 tories. 
 
 The average net annual profits of the Comi)any (after setting 
 aside 40 per cent, of them as remuneration to the fiictors and 
 servants at the Company's posts and stations), for the tt^n yeai's 
 ending the 31st May, 18G2, amount to £81,000, or upward.s of 
 
()G 
 
 4 per cent, on the present nominal Capital of ^2,000,000. A 
 portion only of tlii.s income has been distributed as dividend, 
 while the remainder is represented in the assets and balances. 
 The assets of tlie Company, in which the Subscribers will bo 
 entitled to an interest corresponding to the amount of their 
 Subscription, will consist of goods in the interior, on shipboard, 
 and other stock-in-trade, including shii)ping, business premises, 
 and other buildings ]iecessary for carrying on the fur trade, in 
 addition to which tlua-e will bo funds immediately available for 
 the proi)osed extended operations of the Company, derived partly 
 from the casli balance of the Hudson's Bay Company, and partly 
 from the new issue of Stock, and amounting in the whole to a 
 sum not less than .£370,000. 
 
 The CoDipainfii terriloi'ij embraces an estimated area of more 
 than 1,400,000 aqwire utiles, or eight hundred aiid ninettj-six 
 millions of acres, of which a large area, on the /Southern Frontier, 
 is well adapted for European colonisation. The soil of this 
 portion of the territorij is fertile, jyt'oducing, in abundance, wheat 
 and other cereal crops, and is capable of sustaining a numerous 
 j)opulation. It contains 1,400 miles of navigable lakes and 
 rivers, running, for the greater part, east and west, which consti- 
 tute an important feature in plans for establishing the means of 
 coinmu)iicatio)t between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, across 
 the Continent of British Xorth America, as well as for immediate 
 settlement in the intervening country. The territory is, nioreoverf 
 rich in mineral wealth, including coal, lead, and iron. 
 
 In addition to its Chartered territory, the Company possess 
 the following valuable lauded property : — Several plots of land 
 in British Colundjia, occupying most favourable sites at the 
 mouths of rivers, the titles to which have been confirmed by 
 Her Majesty's Government ; farms, building sites in Vancouver's 
 Island ; and in Canada ten square miles at Lacloche, on Lake 
 Huron, and tracts of land at fourteen other places. 
 
 The trading operations of the Company are chiefly carried on 
 in the fur-bearing and northern portion of the territory, where 
 the climate is too severe for European colonization. These 
 trading operations will be actively continued, and as far as 
 possible extended, whilst the management will be judiciously 
 economized. 
 
67 
 
 Consistently witli tlicse objects, the outlying estates and 
 valuable farms will be realized wliere the land is not required 
 for the use of the Company, — the southern district laill he opened 
 to European colonuation, under a Ubend and systematic scheme 
 of land settlement. Possessing a staff of factors and officers who 
 are distributed in small centres of civilization over the territory, 
 the Company can, without creating now and costly establish- 
 ments, inaugurate the new policy of colonization, and at the 
 same time dispose of mininfj (/rants. 
 
 With the view of providing the means of telegraphic and 
 postal communication between Canada and British Columbia, 
 across the Compani/^s territory^ and thereby of connecting the 
 Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, by an exclusively British route, ne- 
 gociations have been pending for some time past between certain 
 parties and Her Majesty's (jrovernmeut and the representatives 
 of the Government of Canada, and preliminary arrangements 
 for the accomplishment of these objects have been made through 
 Her Majesty's Government (subject to the final sanction of the 
 Colonies), based upon a 5 per cent, guarantee from the Govern- 
 ments of Canada, British Columbia, and Vancouver Island. In 
 further aid of these Imperial olyects, Her Majesty's Government 
 have signified their intention to make grants of land to the 
 extent of about 1,000,000 acres, in portions of the Crown 
 territory traversed by tlie proposed telegraphic lines. 
 
 One of the first objects of the Company will bo to examine 
 the facilities and coiisider the best means for carrying out this 
 most important work, and there can be little doubt that it will 
 be successfully executed either by the Hudson's Bay Company 
 itself, or with their aid and sanction. 
 
 For this, as well as for the other proposed objects, Mr. Edward 
 Watkin, who is now in Canada, will bo connnissioned, with 
 other gentlemen specially qualified for the duty, to visit the 
 Red Biver and southern districts, to consult the officei's of the 
 Company there, and to report as to the best and safest means of 
 giving effect to the contenq)lated operations. 
 
 Applications for allotments of Certificates of Stock of j£20 
 each to be made to the International Financial Societv, 
 Limited, at their Offices, 54, Old Broad Street, E. C. 
 
 A preference in allotment will be given to parties hithei*to 
 
68 
 
 holders of Stock in the Hudson's Bay Company, and to tho 
 Shareholder.s in the International Financial Society, Limited. 
 
 No application will bo received after Wednesday, 8th July, 
 at 12 o'clock. 
 
 Wc have printed in italics tliose passages in the 
 Prospectus which are in direct contradiction to 
 the evidence furnished by the Governor-General of 
 Canada. There can be no doubt but that the pub- 
 lic subscribed their money almost entirely upon 
 the strength of the names upon the Prospectus, 
 otherwise a careful perusal of the proposal would 
 have convinced them that there were some strange 
 statements contained therein, as we will show. 
 
 1. lliat the Capital of the Compamj had been duly 
 fixed at ii'2,000,000 ; when it had been published to 
 the world a few days previously that it had been 
 purchased by the International Financial Asso- 
 ciation for >£!, 500,000, and that even this Society 
 had given 4'500,000 more than the price of the 
 stock in the market at that time. 
 
 2. That the assets, exclusive of the laud and cash 
 halauce, had been receuthj and, specialhj valued hij 
 competent valuers at .^1,023,569; a work that must 
 have taken a year to complete, inasmuch as they 
 are spread over some two millions of square miles, 
 whereas the International Financial Company had 
 only been formed a few weeks at that time. It 
 may be very properly asked who the competent 
 valuers were, and who employed them ? 
 
 3. The landed temtor\) of the Conipanij^ held under 
 their Charter^ and tvhich extends over an estimated area 
 of more than 1,400,000 square miles, or upwards of 
 
69 
 
 896,000,000 acres ; when even the Governor of the 
 Company of his own personal knowledge did know, 
 and all the other Directors ought to have known, 
 with common prudence, that the whole of this 
 land adapted for settlement was the property 
 of Canada. 
 
 4. .4 cash balance of .£370,000. If this is so, 
 why with the new issue of stock should not the 
 Company have a cash balance of jC870,000, in- 
 stead of iJ370,000, as stated in the fourth para- 
 graph of the Prospectus ? 
 
 5. The assertion in the first imragraph of the 
 Prospectus that the Companij was incorporated by Itoyal 
 Charter granted hj Charles the 2nd, and by the Charter 
 a vast tract of territory teas vested in the Company, 
 together icitli the sole right of trade and commerce, and 
 all " mines royal,'' as well then discovered as not dis- 
 covered, within the said territory ; when the Governor, 
 as Governor - General of Canada, had shown 
 that the Charter was invalid, that their exclu- 
 sive right of trade had been declared by the 
 Governor's own witness. Sir H. Draper, to be 
 utterly untenable, and that the free settlers on 
 Red Eiver and elsewhere treat their assumption 
 as a usurpation, and are in open rebellion to their 
 authority. 
 
 6. That the operations of the Company, tchich, with 
 slight exceptions, have been hitherto exclusively of a 
 trading character, have been p^yoseciited from the date 
 of the Charter to the present day,-m-^o\\\Q of the 
 sHght exceptions being, no doubt, their war with 
 
70 
 
 the North-Wcst Company, which, to use the 
 words of the hite Governor, " was charactrriHcd hij 
 scenes of dri}wmIi.:((fioii <(ii(l (lestnictio)i of life and 
 property ; ample details of (he revoltiutj subject would 
 he found in the Coloni((l Ojjice, and that the onhj 
 possihilitji of restrainina a repetition of this violence and 
 crime was hjj givimj to the Companij a renewed ex- 
 clusive riijht of trade, and prevoitimj the recurrence of 
 competition. This looks very much hkc murder 
 and rohbery, and securing to the criminals the 
 monopoly of the spoil, and is probably one of the 
 slight exceptions to the trading character of the 
 Company alluded to. 
 
 7. That, — It has become evident that the time has 
 arrived when those operations (not the slight exceptions, 
 we hope) must be extended, and the immense resources 
 of the ompanji's territorg, Iging as it docs between 
 Canada and British Columbia, &c. Now, the only 
 territory between Canada and British Columbia, 
 the Governor, when Governor-General of Canada, 
 had produced witnesses and evidence to the Impe- 
 rial Government and House of Commons, to prove 
 that it belonged to Canada. 
 
 But even admitting this territory belonged to 
 the Company, the resident Governor, in a letter to 
 the Canadian Government, dated the 10th April, 
 1802, writes as follows : — 
 
 You also point out the danger of the Red River settlement 
 from its close connexion with Minnesota, consequent on its 
 isolated position with regard to Canada, becoming imbued with 
 American principles and views, and passing away to our rivals, 
 
thuH (lef>r4ving t-ae ooimtry iif the key of the trade to "British 
 Cohuiibaa and ultimateh to * 'hiuu. 
 
 Wkilt; I ally admittiug hv. forct; of the above arguments, 
 and the immediatf nece"**. r\ some arrangement y)oiuj' come 
 to, I am rehictantly com 111 i to admit my inal)ility to meet 
 the Government of Canada in this forward movement, for the 
 following reasons : — 
 
 First, the Red River and Saskatchewan Valleys, though not 
 in themselves fur-bearing districts, are the sources from whence 
 the main supplies of winter food are i)rocured for the northern 
 posts from the produce of the Ijulfalo hunts. A chain of settle- 
 ments through these valleys would not only deprive the C*om- 
 pany of the above vital resource, but would indirectly in many 
 other ways so interfere with their northern trade as to render it 
 no longer worth prosecuting on an extended scale. It would 
 necessarily bo diverted into various channels, possibly to the 
 public benefit, but the Company could no longer exist on its 
 present footing. 
 
 The above reasons against a partial surrender of our terri- 
 tories may not appear sufficiently obvious to parties not conver- 
 sant with the trade or the countiy ; but my knowledge of both, 
 based on jjersoual experience, and from other sources open to me, 
 points to the conclusion that partial concessions of the districts 
 which must necessarily be alienated would inevitably lead to the 
 extinction of the Company. 
 
 8. That the assets of the Company, in which the Siih- 
 scrihers tcill he entitled to an interest corresponding to 
 the amount of their Subscription, will consist of goods 
 in the interior, on shipboard, and other stocl-in-trade, 
 including shipping, business premises, and other build- 
 ings necessary for carrying on the fur trade, in addition 
 to which there ivill be funds in hand immediately avail- 
 able for the proposed extended operations of the Com- 
 pany, derived partly from the cash Imlance of the Hud- 
 sons Bay Company, and partly from the new issue of 
 Stock, amounting in the echoic to a sum not less than 
 ^370,000. 
 
n 
 
 As to the stock-in-tmdo, it is not shown who 
 the competent vahiers arc, or by whom appointed, 
 and if the vahiation was made or not upon the 
 assumption of a continuation of the cxchisive pri- 
 vilege of trade ; and as to the sum of .£370,000 
 available for extended operations, this amount 
 should clearly have been l'/500,000, without any- 
 thing from the cash balance of the Hudson's ]3ay 
 Company, inasmuch as the old proprietors were 
 paid j£l, 500,000, and the subscriptions for the new 
 stock fixed at .£2,000,000. 
 
 9. The next paragraph is but a repetition of an 
 asserted title to property which the Governor of 
 the Company did Imow, and other Directors might 
 have known, belonged to Canada. 
 
 10. The next paragraph as to the land in British 
 Columhia, Vancouver's Island, and other places. It 
 is but right that the Subscribers should know 
 that the free settlers in British Columbia and Van- 
 couver Island deny the validity of these appropria- 
 tions, and that the first act of the first free Legis- 
 lature of Vancouver Island was to appoint a Select 
 Committee to inquire into the appropriations in 
 question. 
 
 11. That the operations of the Companij are chiefij 
 carried on in the fur-hearing and northern portion of the 
 territory, where the climate is too severe for European 
 colonization, is an admission on the part of the Com- 
 pany that they have for forty years systematically 
 opposed colonization in the southern country, which 
 was unprofitable to them. 
 
78 
 
 12. That, cojisistcnthj with these ohjertftf the outhjinff 
 estates and valuable farms will he realized where (he 
 land is not required for the use of the Compaini, — the 
 southern district 2vill he opened to European colonization, 
 under a liberal and sjfstematic scheme of land settlement ; 
 wlien, in the first place, the land in the BOiithern 
 district does not belong to them ; and if it did, the 
 only possible chance of securing the settlement of 
 the country is by free land grants to the settlers, 
 and the rest of the public domain to be applied in 
 facilitating the construction of roads and bridges, 
 and the expense of governing the country, the only 
 possible system of modern colonization being 
 to administer the public lands for the benetit of 
 the colony, and not for an absentee proprietary in 
 London. 
 
 13. That with the view of prodding the means of 
 telegraph and postal communication between Canada and 
 British Columbia, across the Companfs territorg, and 
 thereby of connecting the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, 
 by an exchsively British route, negoeiations have been 
 pending for some time past between certain parties and 
 Her Majesty's Government ami the representatives of 
 the Government of Canada, and preliminary arrange- 
 ments for the accomplishment of these objects have been 
 made through Her Majesty's Government (subject to the 
 final sanction of the colonies), based upon a 5 per cent, 
 guarantee from the Governments of Canada, British 
 Columbia, ami Vancouver Island. In further aid of 
 these Imperial objects, Her Majesty's Governinent have 
 signified their intention to mahe grants of land to the 
 
74 
 
 extent of ahoiit 1,000,000 acres, in portions of the 
 Crown territorij hij the proposed telegraphic lines ; wlien 
 in fact Canada never contemplated giving any such 
 guarantee, only on the assumption that the whole 
 of the territory to he traversed hy the road and 
 telegraph hetween her settled boundaries and the 
 Rocky Mountains belonged to her. 
 
 For Canada to do what the Prospectus leads the 
 public to believe, is as absurd as if she was to ask 
 the province of New Brunswick and the Red River 
 Settlement to guarantee the cost of the Grand 
 Trunk Railway, whilst as to the 1,000,000 acres to 
 be given by the Crown, it would be very difficult to 
 define where it is, inasmuch as Canada claims the 
 whole country to the Rocky Mountains, and British 
 Columbia the rest. 
 
 14. That one of the first objects of the Compamj will 
 he to examine the facilities and consider the best means 
 for carrifing out this most important irorh, and there 
 can he little dcmht that it will he successfnlhj execnted 
 either bij the Hudson's Bay Company itself, or idth 
 their aid and sanction. Can anyone really believe 
 for a moment that the Governments of Canada, 
 British Columbia, and Vancouver Island have such 
 an abundance of money that they will pay the 
 Hudson's Bay Company for the cost of that Com- 
 pany building a road and telegraph for 1,500 miles 
 through the territory which it claims as its own, 
 and contributes not a shilling to expenses of the 
 Governments of either Canada, British Columbia, 
 or Vancouver Island ? 
 
 n 
 
75 
 
 to 
 
 15. That for thiSf as- tvcll as the other iwoposetl 
 ohjeets, Mr. Edward Watkin, who is now in Canada f 
 will he commissionedf u'ith other (jentlemen specialhj 
 qnalijied for the dntij, to visit the Ued River and 
 southern districts, to consult the officers of the Companif 
 there, and to report as to the hest and safest n^eans of 
 fjidwj effect to the contemplated operations. 
 
 Upon this paragraph wo will only observe that 
 the gentleman named therein did not find it 
 prudent to proceed further than Montreal. In fact, 
 his mission utterly failed, inasmuch as nothing 
 could be done without the concurrence of Canada, 
 but the Canadian Government declined to hold any 
 communicati >n with him. 
 
 Defeated in their direct ncgociations with the 
 Canadian Government, the Company next resorted 
 to the expedient of addressing their proposals 
 through the Colonial Office, but which ended in 
 their being rejected by an Order in Council. And 
 the Governor-General of Canada, in opening the 
 Canadian Parliament on the 10th day of February 
 last, in his speech from the throne, said : — 
 
 " The condition of the vast region lying on the North-West 
 of the settled portions of the province is daily bcconiiug a ques- 
 tion of greater interest. J have considered it advisable to ojjcn 
 a correspondence with the Imperial Government, with a view to 
 arrive at a precise definition of the geographical boundaries of 
 Canada in that direction. Such a definition of boundary is a 
 desirable preliminary to further proceedings with respect to the 
 vast tracts of land in that quarter belonging to Canada, but not 
 yet brought under the action of our political and municipal 
 system." 
 
 In the debate on the Address on the 1st of March, 
 
 a 
 
76 
 
 the Hon. Mr. Macclougall, Minister of Crown 
 Lands, having charge of this question, said : — 
 
 " They (tho Goverumeut of Canada) soon came to the con- 
 clusion that the first thing to bo done was to determine whether 
 the Red River territory belonged to Canada or to some other 
 country, and tho consequence was that a corresi)ondence had 
 been opened with tlie imperial Government on the subject, as 
 stated in the speech. He did not know that there was any 
 harm in his stating his iudividual view of the case at the pre- 
 sent time, which was that Canada was entitled to claim us a 
 portion of its soil all that part of the North-West territory that 
 could be proved to have been in the possession of the French at 
 the time of the cession of Canada to the British." 
 
 The Hon. Mr. Cartier, during the same debate, 
 stated that the Government of which he was a 
 member had, in 1858, asserted the claims of 
 Canada to this territory, even in a mucli stronger 
 form. The House were unanimous in the expres- 
 sion that the time had arrived when the question 
 si ould be finally settled. 
 
 In conclusion, we have traced as briefly as pos- 
 sible the history of this case up to the last act of 
 the Canadian and British Governments and the 
 Company. The evidence adduced before the Com- 
 mittee of the House of Commons, in 1857, on 
 the part of Canada, conclusively proved that the 
 whole of the fertile tract of country adapted for 
 colonization, extending from their Western settle- 
 ments to the llocky Mountains, is the undoubted 
 property of that province, and that tho exclusive 
 privilege of trade claimed by the Hudson's Bay 
 Company over any portion of the North American 
 Continent is invaHd. 
 
77 
 
 That Canada subsequently declined to be a party 
 to any arrangement — even if the Red River and 
 Saskatchewan country were conceded to her, 
 which would restrict her from testing in whatever 
 form she thought best the validity of the rights 
 claimed by the Company under their Charter over 
 any other portion of the North- West territory. 
 
 That the late Governor of the Hudson's Bay 
 Company in England, Captain Shepherd, in 1858, 
 and the present resident Governor of the Company 
 in Canada, Mr. Dahas, in 1802, expressed the 
 opinion that the cession of the Red River and 
 Saskatchewan country would inevitably lead to the 
 extinction of the Company. 
 
 That it was the intention of Lord Derby's Ad- 
 ministration to have tested the validity of the 
 Company's Charter with or without the co-opera- 
 tion of Canada, and if proved to be vaUd, then to 
 purchase out the rights of the Company, the 
 Government believingthat aproprictary jurisdiction 
 intervening between Canada and British Columbia 
 was inimical to their progress, and should not be 
 allowed any longer to exist. 
 
 That a number of gentlemen, including Messrs. 
 Baring and Glyn, the Financial Agents of the 
 Government of Canada, addressed a communication 
 to the Duke of Newcastle in July, 18G2, upon the 
 subject of establishing a road and telegraph to 
 British Columbia, and the Government of Canada, 
 relying upon this movement being made in good 
 faith, rendered the most hberal support. 
 
78 
 
 That suddenly, without any communisation with 
 the Government of Canada and unknown to them, 
 — and without the concurrence of either the Finan- 
 cial Agents of Canada, Messrs. Baring and Glyn, 
 or Mr. Crawford, or Mr. Chapman, — Mr. Watkin 
 and Mr. Benson arranged the sale and purchase 
 of the Hudson's Bay Company, giving £500,000 
 more for it than what it was worth in the open 
 market. 
 
 That the Duke of Newcastle had heen so far 
 misinformed as to state in the House of Lords 
 that the purchase had heen effected for Messrs. 
 Baring and others associated with him. 
 
 That the purchase was no sooner completed 
 than it was issued to the puhlic at X'2,000,000, 
 being just double the price it was worth in the 
 open market. 
 
 That a prospectus was issued, headed by the late 
 Governor-General of Canada as Governor, setting 
 up all the claims under the Charter, which he had 
 conclusively proved were invalid, and at the same 
 time incorrectly stating that the Governments of 
 Canada and British Columbia were willing to gua- 
 rantee the cost of constructing and maintaining 
 a road and telegraph tln'ough the territory. 
 
 That such a purchase and re -issue as that 
 effected by Mr. Watkin and the International 
 Financial Society was directly in opposition to the 
 views entertained by the gentlemen who first 
 moved in the matter, and a betrayal of the most 
 vital interests of Canada; the only purchase 
 
79 
 
 
 which could be satisfactory to Canada being one 
 which would terminate a proprietary interest inter- 
 vening between Canada and British Columbia, and 
 put an end once and for ever to a Charter which 
 is a disgrace to the age in which we live. 
 
 That, in the face of all this, the Company had 
 the indiscretion to instruct Mr. Edward Watkin 
 to submit proposals to the Canadian Government, 
 but which ended, as might naturally be expected, 
 in their being rejected, and the Home Govern- 
 ment being invited to join Canada in defining the 
 boundaries of that province without the inter- 
 vention of the Hudson's Bay Company. 
 
 The new management have now been in posses- 
 sion upwards of ten months ; they have done 
 nothing but set up and attempt to perpetuate all the 
 monstrous claims of the old company ; they have in- 
 curred thereby the direct hostility of the Canadian 
 people, and their proposals to the Canadian Govern- 
 ment upon the subject of the road and telegraph 
 have been rejected by an Order in Council. They 
 have so far exasperated the people of Canada by 
 their glaring attempts to trifle with hor most vital 
 interests, that no Government can exist in that 
 country which would venture to admit any one 
 of the material claims set up by the Company 
 under their Charter. Nothing in any other respect 
 has been done or acquired to make the property of 
 the Company worth more than .£1,000,000, its 
 value twelve months ago, but important events have 
 occurred to make it worth much less. Proceedings 
 
' 
 
 80 
 
 have been commenced, which, according to the 
 evidence of the resident Governor of the Company 
 in Canada, Mr. Dallas, will inevitably lead to the 
 extinction of the Company. The vallep of the 
 Bed River and Sashatchewan belong to Canada; a 
 chain of settlements and a road and tele/jraph throvffh 
 them ivill he shortly cstahlished ; and then, without the 
 necessity of appeal to any court of law, there will 
 be an end of the exclusive privilege of trade and 
 other monstrous claims set up by the Company. 
 
 The old proprietary had claims for consideration 
 from the Imperial Government ; the new proprie- 
 tary have none. They entered upon the adventure 
 with all the evidence we have adduced open to 
 them. They, no doubt, subscribed their money 
 purely upon the strength of the names which 
 appeared in the prospectus. We have shown by 
 public documents of the most authoritative kind, and 
 furnished mainly by the Governor of the Company 
 himself, when Governor- General of Canada, that 
 in nearly all the essential paragraphs of that pro- 
 spectus the statements are fallacious. 
 
 Tiie sooner the new Shareholders can reconcile 
 themselves to the fact that the Company is not 
 an institution which the age will longer tolerate, 
 the better. The assets of the Company are like 
 an old ship, only just worth what they will fetch 
 to ** break up;" for in fact their "occupation's 
 gone." The old proprietary, with an instinct so 
 characteristic of them, left the old ship last year. 
 The new proprietary are the victims of a mis- 
 
' 
 
 81 
 
 placed confidence ; they have been imposed upon 
 by a combination wliicli it would not be unjust to 
 say possessed *' all the talents;" but they may 
 rest assured it will be hereafter recorded in the 
 history of our country that the first scheme intro- 
 duced by a Financial Company in England was 
 one of the most monstrous up to that period ever 
 palmed upon the credulity of the British people. 
 
 ^"A,. 
 
 A. U. Bailt & Co., Printers, Stationers, and Qeneial Advertising Agetlts, 
 Royal Exchange Buildings.