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BOSTONIA
CONDITA AD.
1630.
BOSTON PUBLIC LIBRARY
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GIVEN BY
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JOURNAL
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DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS
'IN
IN THE
1
CONVENTION OF DELEGATES,
CHOSEN TO REVISE THE
constitutiørt of assachusetts,
1
Begun and holden at Boston, November 15, 1820,
and continued by Adjournment to
January 9, 1821.
RÈPORTED FOR THE BOSTON DAILY ADVERTISÉR.
(
BOSTON:
PUBLISHED AT THE OFFICE OF THE DAILY ADVERTISER.
1821.
d
12
usoa; 5 5
Thro & 子
​Heb.14.1894.
DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS, TO WIT:
District Clerk's Office.
BE IT REMEMBERED, that on the thirtieth day of January, A. D. 1821, in the forty fifth year of the Indepen.
dence of the United States of America, Nathan Hale, of the said District, bas deposited in this office the title of a
book, the right whereof he claims as proprietor, in the words following, to wit:
Journal of Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of Delegates, chosen to revise the Constitution of Massachưa
setts, begun and holden at Boston, November 15, 1820, and continued by Adjournment to January 9, 1821. Reported for
the Boston Daily Advertiser
In conformity to the act of the Congress of the United States, entitled, “ An act for the encouragement of learning,
by securing the copies of maps, charts and books, to the authors and proprietors of such copies, during the times
therein mentioned and also to an act entitled, " An act supplementary to an act, entitled, An act for the encouage-
ment of learning, by securing the copies of maps, charts and books, to the authors and proprietor's of such copies during
the times therein mentioned; and extending the benefits thereof to the arts of designing, engraving and etching
historical, and other prints.",
JOHN W. DAVIS,
Clerk of the District of Massachusetts.
1
1
r
1
ADVERTISEMENT.
A
1
THIS report of the proceedings and debates in the Conventioni, was made for
the Boston Daily Advertiser by the editor of that paper, who was a member of
the Conventiori, assisted by a gentleman of the bar, to whom a seat was assigned
by the President. The principal design was to furnish the public, from day to
day, with an account of the proceedings, through that paper; and to this design
the report was necessarily made to conform. For a great part of the session,
the proceedings of each day were published in the morning paper of the follow-
ing day; the reporters were in consequence obliged to prepare their reports in
the greatest haste, and in cases in which the sittings continued to a great length
of time, and especially when two sittings were held on the same day and pro
tracted to a late hour in the evening, it became' necessary, as well on account of
the short interval for transcribing, as froni regard to the capacity of the paper,
to abridge the debate to a greater degree than they would otherwise bave done.
Many of the reported speeches are to be considered rather as abridgments, than
ás full reports of those which were delivered. It was, in general, the object of
the reporters, to give the whole argument in substance, without being scrupu-
lously careful to adhere to the language of the several speakers. In this design,
however, they may occasionally have failed; sometimes, from rót hearing dis-
tinetly-sometimes, perhaps, from not fully understanding the scope of the argu-
ment, and sometimes from not being able, through fatigue, to give proper atten-
tion. For these reasons, it will not be supposed, that complete justice is done to
the differeņt speakers, in point of elegance and propriety of expression, or that
the same degree of justice is done to each, in regard to fulness and accuracy;
but the reporters have endeavoured, according to the best of their ability, to
give as full and accurate a report of the debates as circumstances would admit.
}
Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD ONE THOUSAND EIGHT HUNDRED AND TWENTY.
AN ACT
RELATING TO THE CALLING A CONVENTION OF DELEGATES
OF THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PURPOSE OF REVISING
THE CONSTITUTION.
Sec. 1. BE it enacted by the Senate and House of Repre.
sentatives, in General Court assembled, and by the authority
of the same. That the inhabitants of the several towns,
districts, and places within this Commonwealth, qualifed
to vote for Senators or Representatives in the General
Court, sball assemble in regular town meetings, to be noti.
fiied in the usual manner, on the third Monday ct August
next. and shall, in open town meeting, give in their votes,
by ballot, on this question : " Is it expedient, that Dele-
gates should be chosen, to meet in Convention, for the pur-
pose of revising, or altering the Constitution of Govern-
ment of this Commonwealth :" And the Selectmen of the
said towns and districts, shall, in open town meeting. re-
ceive, sort, count, and declare, and the Clerks thereof shall,
respectively, record the votes given for and against the
measure; and exact returns thereof shall be made out, un.
der the hands of a majority of the Selectinen, and of the
Clerki, who shall seal up, and deliver the same to the Shere
iff of the county, within one week from the time of meet.
jog, to be by hin transmitted to the office of the Secretary
of the Commonwealth. on or before the second Monday in
September next; or the Selectnien may themselves trans.
Init the same lo said office, on or before the day last mpen.
tioned; and all returns not then made. shail be rejected in
the counting. And the Governor and Council shall open
and examine the returns, made as aforesaid, and count the
Totes given on the said question ; and the Governor shall,
by public proclamation, to be made on or before the third
Jíonday in said month of September, make known the re-
yult, by declaring the number appearing in favor of choose
ing Delegetes for the purpose aforesaid, and the nuniber of
vntes appearing against the same: And if it shall appear,
that a majority of the votes given in, and returned as afore
said, are in favor of choosing Delegates as aforesait, tlie
game shall be deemed and taken to be the will of the people
of the Commonwealth, that a Convention should nieet ac-
cordingly; aod ip case of such majority, the Governor
suall call upon the people to elect Delegates to meet in
Convention, in the manner hereinafter provided.
Stc. 2. Be it further enacied, That if it shall be declared
by the said proclamation, that the majority of votes as
eforesaid, is in favor of choosing Delegates, as above men-
tioned, the inhabitants of the several towns god districts
within the Coinmonwealth, Duw entitled 19 sand one or
ure Representatives to the Goneral Court, shall on the
Third Monday in October next. assenible in town meeting,
to be duly notiſed by warrant from the Selectmen, and
sball elecione or more Delegates, not exceeding the number
of Kepresentatives to which such town is entitled, to meet
Delegates ftoin other towns il Convention, for the purpose
es hereinafter expressed: And at sucb dieeting of the in-
1:abitants, every person entitled to vote for Representatives
in the General Court, shan bare a right to vote in the
choice of Delegsies; and ibe Selectirez skal preside at
such elections, and shall, in open meeting, receive, sort,
count, and declare the votes, and the Clerk shali misle
cord thereof, fair copies of which. attested b: :! Stret.
men and Clerk. shall be seasonably delivered
als je!
son chosen a Delegate as aforesaid. And it! :11: HOW
in force, regulating the duty and conduct i Turithicers,
Sheriffs, Magistrates, and Electors, in thi elections of Gov.
ernor, Lieutenant Governor, Counsellors an: Servators, and
Representatives, shall as far as applicable, apply and be in
fuli force and operation as to ali ..e-etings bolden and
elections and returns made under this act, or which, by this
act, are required to los boldcu or made, and upon the like
forfeitures and penalties
Sec. 3. Be it further ciincted, That the personis so elected
Delegates, shall meet in Convention, in the State House, in
Boston, on the third Wednesday in November next; and
they shall be the judges of the returns and election of their
own members, and pay adjourn from time to time, and
one hundred of the persons elected, shall constitute a que-
rum for the transaction of business; and they shall proceed
as soon as may be, to organize themselves in Convention,
by choosing a President, and such other officers as they
may detm expedient, and by establishing proper rules of
proceeding; and when organized, they may take into con-
sideration the propriety and expediency of making any, and
if any, what alterations or amendients in the presené Con-
siitution of Government of the Commonwealth; and such
amendments, when made and adopted by the said Conven-
tion, shall be subnitted to the people for their ratification
and adoption, in such manuer as the said Convention shall
direct; and, if ratifiert by the people in the manner directa
ed by the said Convention, the Constirution shall be deem-
ed and taken to be altered or aipendel accordingly; and
if not so ratified, the present Constitution shall be and re.
main the Constitution of Government of this common-
wealti.
Sec. 4. Be it further enacted, That the said Convention
shall establish the pay or compensation of its officers and
members, and the expense of its session; and His Excellen.
cy the Governor, by and with the advice and consent of the
Council, is authorized to draw his warrant on the Treasur-
er theretor.
Sec 5. Be it furi her enacted, That the Secretary of the
Commonwealthi, be, and he liereby is directed, forlkwith,
after the passage thereof, to transmit printrd copies of this
act, to the Seltctmen of every town and district witbin
üle said Cunuionwealth; and whenever dre Governor shall
issue his proclamation, calling upon the people to elect
Delegates, to meet in Convention, as atoresaid the said Se-
Cretary shait also inincdiately thereafter, transmit printed
copies of said proclamation, attested by himself, to the Se-
leermica of every town and district in said Commonwealth.
(Approved by the Governor, June 16tb, 1820)
CONVENTION OF DELEGATES
Assembled at the State House in Boston, Novem-
ber 15th, 1820, for the purpose
purpose of revising the
Constitution of Massachusetts, in pursuance of
the law of June 16th.
LIST OF DELEGATES.
SUFFOLK.
Lynn-Joseph Fuller, Jona. Batchelder,
Boston.His Hon. Wm. Phillips, Hon. Enoch Mudge, Jr. John Lovejoy, Ezra
Wm. Gray, Isaac Parkering Charles Jackson, | Mudge.
Thomas Dawes, John Davis, Wm. Prescott, Lynnfield.--Asa T. Newhall, Parker C.
Artemas Ward, James Prince, Esq. Rev. Cleavelando
James Freeman, Hon. John Phillips, Josiah Manchester-Col. David Colby.
Quincy, Peter C. Brooks, John Welles, Israel Marblehead-Nathan Hooper, Joshua Pren-
Thorndike, Daniel Davis, Jona. Hunewell, tiss, Jr. Benjamin Knight, Nathan Martin,
Rev. Thos. Baldwin, Thomas Melville, Esq. John H. Gregory.
Hon. William Sullivan, Redford Webster, Methuen-Stephen Barker.
Esq. George Blake, Esq. Hon. Daniel Web- Middleton-Rev. Ebenezer Hubbard.
ster, John T. Apthorp, Esq. Benjamin Russell, Newbury--Josiah Little, Esq, Richard
Esq. Daniel Messinger, Esq. Warren Dutton, Pike, Esq. Moses Little, Esq.
Esq. Joseph Coolidge, Esq. Mr. John Cotton, Newburyport-Rev. John Andrews, Hon.
Lemuel Shaw, Esq. Joseph Tilden, Esq. Doct. Samuel S. Wilde, William Bartlett, William
John C. Warren, Wm. Harris, Esq. Samuel B. Bannister, James Prince, Dr. Nathan
Hubbard, Esq. Rev. Paul Dean, Mr. Eliph. | Noyes.
Williams, J. T. Austin, Esq. Mr. William Rowley.-Joshua Jewett.
Sturgis, James Savage, Esq. Mr. Heman Salem-Hon. Benj. Pickman, Joseph Sto-
Lincoln; Rev. Henry Ware, Nathan Hale, il ry, Leverett Saltonstall, Gideon Barstow,
Esq. Mr. Samuel A. Welles, Mr. Lynde Esq. David Cummings, Esq. Stephen White,
Walter, Mr. George Bond.
Esq. John G. King, Michael Shepherd, John
Chelsea-Rev. Joseph Tuckerman. Derby Jun.
ESSEX.
Salisbury--Samuel March, Benjamin
Evans.
Amesbury-John Morse, Esq. Enoch Bart-
lett.
Saugus-Jonathan Makepeace.
Andover-John Kneeland,Stephen Barker.
Topsfield-Cyrus Cummings.
Wenham-John Dodge.
Beverly-Rev. N. W. Williams, Deacon
John Low, Hon. Nathan Dane, Hon. Robert
West Newbury, Thomas Hills,
Rantoul.
MIDDLESEX.
Boxford-Tbomas Perley.
Acton-Joseph Noyes, Esq.
Bradford-Deacon Daniel Stickney, Jesse
Ashby-John Locke.
Kimbali, Jr. Esq.
Billerica- Joseph Locke.
Danvers-Eben. Shillaber, Caleb Oakes, Bedford—William Webber.
John Page, Ebenezer King.
Brighton-Francis Winship.
Essex. - Jonathan Story.
Burlington-None.
Gloucester-Col. Wm. Pearce, John Kit-
Cambridge-Levi Farwell, Peter Tufts, jr
tredge, Esq. Capt. Wm. W. Parrott, Nehe- | Hon. Samuel P. P. Fay.
miah Knowlton, Col. Wm. Beach, Capt. Elias
Carlisle-Benjamin Barrett.
Davidson.
Charlestown-Seth Knowles, William
Hamilton-Jona. Lamson.
Austin, Thomas Harris, Leonard M. Parker,
Haverhill--Hon. Bailey Bartlett, Col. George Bartlett, Timothy Thompson, Jr.
White, Moses Wingate, Esq.
Chelmsford-Phinehas Whitney, David
Ipswich-John Heard, Nathaniel Wade.
Pelham.
y
MASSACHUSETTS.CONVENTION.
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Concord.-Samuel Hoar, Jr. Esq. John Leominster-Bezaleel Lawrence, Joseph
Keyes, Esq.
G. Kendall.
Dracut---Hon. Joseph B. Varnum.
Lunenberg-Josiah Stearns, Esq.
Dunstable-pone.
Mendon-Hon. Jona. Russell, Dr. Danied
E. Sudbury-Jacob Reeves, Esq.
Thurber.
Framingham-John Trowbridge, Esq. Milford. Essek Greene.
John Adams, Esq.
Milbury. Aaron Pierce.
Groton-Luther Lawrence, Esq. Hon. New Braintree-Joseph Bowman.
Samuel Dana.
Northboro'. James Keyes.
Holliston-Elihu' Cutter, Esq.
Northbridge--Rev. John Crane.
Hopkinton-Joseph Valentine, Esq. Na- N. Brookfield. Daniel Gilbert.
than Phipps.
Oalcham. William,Crawford, jun.
Lexington-Nathan Chandler, Esq.
Oxford. Richard Olney.
Lincoln-Samuel Hoar, Esq.
Paxton. Jona. P. Grovesnor.
Littleton-Rev. Edmund Foster.
Petersham. Hutchins Hapgood, J.Houghton
Malden-Elder Ebenezer Nelson, Phine- || ton.
has Sprague.
: Phillipston-John Doane.
Marlborough-Benj
. Rice, Joel Cranston. Princeton-Ward N. Boylston.
Medford-Nathaniel Hall, Abner Bartlett. Royalston Rufus Bullock.
Natick- Jonathan Bacon.
Rutland-Zadock Gates.
Newton-Gen. Ebenezer Cheney, Joseph Shrewsbury-Nathan Pratt.
Jackson, Esq.
Southboro-Rev. Jeroboam Parker.
Pepperell--John Walton, Abel Jewett. SpencerJames Draper.
Reading--Daniel Flint, Timothy Wake- Sterling-Thomas H. Blood, John Rok-
field.
bins, Jr.
Sherburne-Calvin Sanger.
SturbridgeRev. Zenas L. Leonard.
Shirley-Nathaniel Holden, Esq.
Sutton-Hon. Jonas Sibley, Danl. Russell.
S. Reading--Williain Nichols.
Templeton-Lovell Walker.
Stoneham-none.
Upton-Ezra Wood.
Stow and Borborough Joseph Stone: Uxbridge—Hon. Bezaleel Taſt.
Sudbury~William Hunt, Esq.
Ward-John Clark.
Tewksbury-Jesse Trull.
Westboro Nathan Fisher, Esq.
Townserid Samuel Brooks, Esq.
W.Boylston--Robert B. Thomas.
Tyngsborough -none.
Western -Thomas Powers,
Waltham-John Clark, David Townsend. Westminster--Jonas Whitney, Edware
Watertown-Walter Hunnewell.
Kendall.
W. Cambridge-Hon. Wm. Whittemore. Winchendon--Samuel Prentiss.
Westford-John Abbott.
Worcester----Abraham Lincoln, Esq. Hon.
Weston Isaac Fiske, Esq.
Levi Lincoln, Edward D. Bangs, Esq.
Wilmington-William Blanchard, jr. Southbridge-William Harding.
Woburn-John Wade, Marshal Fowle.
HAMPSHIRE.
WORCESTER.
Amherst-Hon. Ebenezer Mattoon, Israel
Ashburnham-Silas Willard.
Scott.
Athol-Joseph Eastabrook.
Belchertown--Eliakim Phelps, Philo Dick-
Barre-NathanielJones, NathanielHough- inson.
1 ton.
Chesterfield-Barnabas Billings,
Berlin-- Amos Sawyer.
Cummington-Nehenniah Richards,
Bolton-Nathaniel Longley.
E. Hampton.-Thaddeus Clapp,
Boylston.--
Jonathan Bond,
Goshen-Timothy Lyman,
Greenwich
Brookfield-Simeon Draper, Seth Field.
Charlton John Spurr, Isaiah Rider. Hadley-Moses Porter, Samuel Porter,
Dana.-Ephraim Whipple.
Hatfield Oliver Smith,
Douglas.--Welcome Whipple.
Middlefield-—David Mack Jr. Esq.
Dudley-William Windsor,
Northampton-Hon. Joseph Lyman, Hon.
*Fitchburg-John Shepley, Calvin Willard, Samuel Hinkley, Ebenezer Hunt, Jr.
.. Gardner-William Whitney.
Norwich--Artemas Knight.
Grafton-Pardon Aldrich.
Pelham-Rey. Winthrop Bailey,
Hardwick-Timothy Page.
Plainfield-James Richards, Esq.
Harvard Thomas Hersey, Rer. Abisha
South Hadley-Peter Allen.
Samson.
Southhampton-Luther Edwards.
Holden William Drury.
Ware William Bowdoin.
Hubbardston-Ephraim Allen.
W. Hampton-Rev. Enoch Hale.
Lancaster-Jacob Fisher, Davis Whit-
Williamsburg-John Wells.
an.
Worthington-Hoi. Ezra Starkweather.
Leicester-Henry Sargent.
Granby-Eli Dickinson.
7
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
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HAMPDEN.
Blanford-Enos Boies, Abner Gibbs.
· Brimfield—Israel E. Trask. John Wyles.
Chester—Martin Phelps.
Granville-Amos Foote, Francis Steb-
Bins..
Holland and S. Brimfield-Charles Gard-
Longmeadow-Calvin Bürt.
1 Ludlow-None.
Monson-EdeWhitaker, Deodatus Dutton.
Montgomery-Orren Parks.
Palmer-Anios Hamilton.
Russell:
Southwick-Enos Foote, Joseph Forward.
Springfield-Hon. George Bliss, Hon.
Jonathan Dwight,, Jr. Moses Chapin, Oliver
B. Morris.
Tolland-Henry Hamilton.
Westfield-Hon. Samuel Fowler, Jedediah
Taylor, Jesse Farnam.,
W. Springfield LukeParsons, Alfred
Flower, Timothy Horton, Jonas Kent.
Wilbraham-Abel Bliss, Luther Stebbins.
FRANKLIN
Ashfield-Henry Bassett, Levi Cook.
Bernardston-Jonathan Allen.
Buckland-Enos Pomeroy.
Charlemont-A. Judd.
Colraine--Robert L McLellan, George
Eels.
Conway-John Ames..
Deerfield-Hon. Ephraim Williams, Hon.
lihu Hoit.
Gill-Seth S. Howland.
Greenfield-Elijah Alvord.
Hawley—Zenas Banks.
Heath--Jèsse Gale.
Leverelt-Roswell Field.
Leyden-Elisha Chapin.
Montague--Rev. Aaron Gates.
New Salem-Varney Peirce,
Northfield--Rev. Thomas Mason.
Orange-Josiah Cobb,
Rowe
Shelburne-Benoni Pratt.
Shutesbury-John Conkey.
Sunderland-Nathaniel Smith.
Warwick Jonathan Blake.
Wendell-Hon. Joshua Green,
Whately-Thomas Saunderson.
BERKSHIRE.
Adams. John Waterman, James Mason.
Alford. Elihu Lester, Esq.,
Becket. George Cònant.
Cheshire. Rev. Samuel Bloss...
Ctarksburg.--None
Dalton. John Chamberlain.
Egremont: James Baldwin, Esq.
Florida.--None.
G. Barrington. Moses Hopkins.
Hancock. Rodman Hazard.
Hinsdale. Artemas Thompson.
Eanesborough. William H. Tyler.
Lee. James Whiton.
Lenox. Caleb Hyde.
Mt. Washington.-None.
N. Ashford.--None.
N. Marlborougha. Gen. Ebenezer Hydor
Solomon Kasson.
Otis-Col. Samuel Picket.
Peru. Cyrus Stowell.
Pittsfield. Nathan Willis, Henry H.
Childs, Jonathan Y. Clark.
Richmond. Zechariah Pierson.
Sandisfield and Church Smith,
Southfield,
S Eliakim Hull.
Savoy.
Sheffield. Stephen Dewey, Silas Kellogg.
Stockbridge. Joseph Woodbridge.
Tyringham . John Garfield, Esq.
Washington-Philip Eames,
W. Stockbridge-Col. Jos. B. Hill.
Williamstown.-Allenson Porter, Stephen
Hasford.
Windsor-Daniel Dana.
NORFOLK COUNTY:.
Bellingham-Benjamin Hale.
Braintree-Rev. Richard S. Storrs.,
Brookline-Hon. Richard Sullivan,
Canton-Jonathan Leonard.
Gohasset-James C. Doane.
Dedham-Hon. John Endicott. Hon. James,
Richardson, William Ellis, Esq.
Dorchester-Hon. Perez Morton, Henry
Gardner, Thomas Crehore.
Dover..
Forborough-Seth Boyden, Esq.
Franklin-Jos. Bacon, Eli Richardson, jr.
Med field-Rev. Dr. Saunders.
Medway-William Felt,
Milton-Barney Smith, Jedediah Ather-
ton.
Needham-Aaron Smith.
Quincy Hon. John Adams, Thomas ...
Greenleaf.
Randolph-Benjamin Reynolds.
Roxbury-Henry A. S: Dearborn, Eben.
Seaver, Abijah Draper, Sherman Leland.
Sharon-Benjamin Reynolds, Esq.
Stoughton-Samuel Talbotto,
Walpole-Jesse Boyden.
Weymouth-Lemuel Humphrey, Noah
Tor-
rey.
Wrentham-Samuel Day, Allen Tilling-
hast, Samuel Bugbee.
PLYMOUTH.
Abington-Nathan Gurney, Jared Whit-
Bridgewater-Daniel Howard, Daniel
Mitchell, Howard Cary, Zephaniah Forbes.
Carver--Benjamin Ellis.
Duxbury--Rev. John Allyne, Samuel
Frazer.
Halifax-Zebulon Thompson.
Hanover R. Eals.
Hingham--Rev. Joseph RichardsonJe-..
tham Lincole, Thomas Fearing,
Hull
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
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Kingston-George B. Holmes.
Somerset-David Gray.
Marshfield-Rev. Martin Parris.
Swansea—Daniel Hale, John Nason.
Middieborough-Hon. Thomas 'Weston, Taunton--Jonas Godfrey, James L. Hodg-
John Tinkham, Samuel Pickens, Levies, Thomas Lincoln, Nathan Leonard,
Pierce, Seth Miller,
Robert Dean,
PembrokeDavid
-Oldham.
Troy William B. Canedy..
Plympton--none.
Westport-Abner B. Gifford, Tillinghast
Plymouth-Barnabas Hedge, John B. Almy, Nathan C. Brownell.
Thomas, Joseph Bartlett, Benjamin Bram- Wellington-Thomas S. Baylies, Esq.
hall, Nathan M. Davis.
BARNSTABLE.
Rochester-Abraham Holmes, Gideon Bar- BarnstableNymphas Marston, William
'stow, Philip Crandon,
Lewis, Naler Crocker.
Scituate-Hon. Charles Turner, Jesse Brewster-Gen. Elijah Cobb.
Dunbar, John Collamore.
Chatham-Capt. Salathiel Nickerson, and
Wareham-Benjamin Bourne, Esq. Capt. Joseph Young.
Hanson
Dennis-Orin Howe.
BRISTOL COUNTY.
Eastham--Samuel Freeman.
Attleborough-Jabez Newell, Abiathar
Falmouth--Thomas Fish, Braddock Dim-
Richardson, Lemuel May.
mick.
Berkley-Jabez Fox.
Harwich
Dartmouth-Hon. Holder Slocum, Elihu Orleans--Daniel Comings.
Slocum, C. Anthony.
Provincetown
Dighton-Wm. Wood,
Sandwich- Russell Freenian, Elisha Pope
Easton Shepherd Leach, Esq. Isaac || Seth F. Nye.
Lathrop.
Truro
Fairhaven---Alden Spooner, Thomas
Well fleet--Reuben Arey.
Nye.
Yarmouth-Elisha Doane, Hon. John
Freetown-Hon. Nathaniel Morton, Earl
Reed.
Sampson.
DUKES COUNTY,
Mansfield--Solomon Pratt.
Chilmark
New Bedford-John A. Parker, James
Howland 2d. Seth Russell, Silas Kempton.
Edgarton-Thomas Cook, jun.
Norton-George Walker, Seth Hodges.
Tisbury-Shubael Dunham.
Raynham-Silas Hall.
NANTUCKET COUNTY.
Rehoboth-James Bliss, Jeremiah Sisson, Nantucket-Josiah Hussey, Hezekiah
Samuel Bullock.
Barnard, Jethro Mitchell, Gideon Folger,
Seekonk-Robert Daggett, Sisson. William Mitchell, Barker Burnell,
.
1
IN CONVENTION
WEDNESDAY, NOV. 15.-The Delegates || Mendon, Mr. Prince, of Boston, and Mr.
elected to meet in convention for the purpose Bliss of Springfield, were appointed a com-
of revising the Constitution of this Commoni- mittee to receive and count the votes. The
wealth, in pursuance of the act of the 16th | ballots being taken, the committee reported
of June last, assembled at the State-House in that the whole number of votes for Secreta-
the Representatives' Chamber.
ry was 275, and that there were 191 for Ben-
At 10 o'clock, His Honor William Phil- || JAMIN POLLARD, Esq. and that he was chos-
lips, the Lieut. Governor, and a delegate for en. Mr. Pollard was called in, and was
the town of Boston, called the House to or- sworn to the faithful performance of the
der. The Hon. Judge Jackson of Boston, l duties of the office.
Mr. Pickman, of Salem, Mr. Fay, of Cam- It was voted that the House proceed to the
bridge, Mr. Sibley of Sutton, and Mr. Fow-choice of a President, and it was ordered that
ler, of Westfield, were appointed a commit- the same committee receive and count the
tee to examine the credentials of the mem-
The ballots being taken and counted,
bers, and report whether a quorum was pres- | the committee reported that the whole num-
ent. The committee having reported that a ber of votes was 353, necessary for a choice
sufficient number of members were duly e- 171, that the Hon. JOHN ADAMS had
lected to proceed to business, it was voted | 335, and was chosen,
that the house proceed to the choice of a This vote being declared, the Hon. Chief
Secretary, and the Hon. Judge Story of Sa- Justice Parker of Boston, rose to offer a res-
lem, Mr. Greenleaf of Quincy, Russell of Jolution to the House. After adverting to the
votes.
1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
.
advanced age and renowned character of the ; had finally been chosen by the unanimous
Gentleman who had been chosen to preside. voice of his townsmen to represent them in
over the deliberations of the House, and to this Convention. Under these circumstances
the fact that he had been 40 years ago a rep- he(the Chief Justice) thought it proper to pay
resentative in the Convention which formed him the testimony of their respect, and he
the Constitution, that the House was now proceeded to read the following resolution:-
called upon to revise, he suggested the pro-
Whereas the Honorable John ADAMS, a men,
priety of paying him some tribute of re-
ber of this convention and elected the President
spect. He said it would be recollected thereof, has for more than half a century devoted
that from the years 1765 to the Revolution, ll the great powers of his mind and his profound wis-
Mr. Adams was one of the most distinguish-l dom and learning to the service of his country and
of mankind;
ed assertors of the freedom of his country and
In fearlessly vindicating the rights of the North
made the boldest stand in defence of its rights. American provinces against the usurpation apd
By recurrence to the journals of the day, it encroachments of the superintendant government:
would be found that the political research and
In diffusing a knowledge of the principles of civ-
great talents displayed in the public proceed- il liberty among his fellow subjects, and exciting
them to a firm and resolute defence of the privil-
ings, had great influence in exciting the spirit
eges of freeinen:
of the Revolution. He said that it was re- In early conceiving, asserting and maintaining
markable that one so ardent in the support the justice and practicability of establishing the in-
of his opinions was able to check his own dependence of the United States of America :
feelings and those of the public, and to ob-
In giving the powerful aid of his political knowl-
edge in the formation of the Constitution of this
serve a temperate course so honourable to
his native state, which constitution became in a
him and to the country. In 1770, when the great measure the model of those wbich were sub-
country was in alarm and under a great ex- sequently formed :
citement in consequence of the killing and
In conciliating the favor of foreign powers--and
obtaining their countenance and support in the ar-
wounding of citizens by the British soldiers
duous struggle for independence :
stationed in Boston, this firm and resolute
In negotiating the treaty of peace which secured
man though he had been opposing the forever the sovereignty of the United States, and
encroachments of the British government,
in defeating all attempts to prevent it, and espec-
had the hardihood to come forward in ially in preserving in that treaty the vital interests
defence of the soldiers, and show that
of the New England States :
In demonstrating to the world in his defence
the laws were to govern.
In 1774 he of the constitutions of the sereral United States,
was elected to the Continental Congress the contested principle,since admitted as an axion,
and was one of the most distinguished that checks and balances in legislative power, are
members of that bodyThough he did not
essential to true liberty :
draft the declaration of independence, he was
In devoting liis time and talents to the service
of the nation in the higli and important trusts of
one of the most able and resolute supporters Vice President and President of the United States.
of it. In 1779, he was chosen one of the And lastly, in passing an honourable old age in
Delegates to the Convention for the purpose
dignified relirement, in the practice of all the do-
of forming the Constitution of this Common-
mestic virtues, thus exhibiting to his countrynien
and to posterity an example of true greatness of
wealth. And in that body his labours were mind and of genuine patriotisın;
conspicuous. He carried to it a degree of Therefore Resolved, that the inembers of this
profound knowledge which few. men have Convention-representing the people on the, Com-
possessed, and to that we are indebted for
monwealth of Massachusetts do joyfully avail
themselves of this opportunity to testify their re-
many of the excellent provisions of the con-
spect and gratitude to this eminent patriot and
stitution. He was soon after appointed by statesman, for the great services rendered by finna
Congress on a mission to Europe for the pur- to his country, and their ligli gratilitation that at
pose of conciliating the favour of and obtain- this late period of life, he is perurlicd ly Divine
ing assistance from the nations on the Con-Providence to assist them withi'nis counseim revise
ing the Constitution which forty years ago his wis-
tinent. He had the ability and address to
dom and prudence assisted to lorm.
persuade the cautious Dutch that it was for
Resolved, that a committee of memilers de
their interest to advance money for carrying appointed by the chair to communicate ilus proceed-
on the war of the revolution. He remain ing to the Hon. John Adaws, to intorni dim of his
ed in Europe during the war, where he
election to precide in this body and to introduce
him to the chair of this Convention.
performed great services to his country and
had the courage to obtain a treaty of peace
These resolutions being seconded by the
on favorable terms to us,contrary to the wish- Hon.Holder Slocumband read froin thechair,
es of our principal ally. On his return to on motion of the Hon. Mr. Webster, the
this country he was received with unreserv- blänk was filled with twelve, and it was or-
ed public applause. He was afterwards as- dered that the committee should be nominat-
sociated in the government with Washington ed from the chair. The following gentle-
as Vice President of the United States, and men were appointed : Hun. Messrs Gray, of
succeeded him as President. He had since Boston, Varnum of Dracut, Morton of Dor-
lived in honorable retirement and had pre- chester, Mr. Fisher of Westborongli
, Rev.
served to a late period the vigor of his mind, il Dr. Baldwin of Boston, Dane-of Beverly,
of which he had given frequent proofs. He l Stark weather of Worthingtop, Mr. Boylston
C
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
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of Princeton, General Mattoon of Amherst, He gave to this Resolution is most cordial support.
Mr. Melville of Boston, Hon. Messrs Hoar of i just tribute paid to the private virtues of the object
on all accounts, and not the least on account of the
Lincoln, and Bartlett of Haverhill.
of it. Virtues, by which it is shown how much the
Starkweather not having taken his seat, the
value of distinguished talents is increased by an as-
Hon. Mr. Fowler, of Westfield, was appoint- sociation with spotless character, and the qualities
ed in his place.
which dignify retirement.
Mr. DANA observed, that nobody was more A modification was subsequently made in the
ready.to accord,in a tribute of praise to the venerable phraseology of this part of the Preamble, by the
President elect, than himself. Yet, perhaps, he
Hon, mover ;. after whichig. the Resolutions were
might not vote, in this case, precisely for the same UNANIMOUSLY adopted.
reason, and on the same grounds, as were stated in The Committee then proceeded to - wait
the preamble to the resolve. This preamble, al- on the President elect and the resolution was.
mong other things, alluded to the efforts of 'the
read to him by the Hon. Mr. Morton.----
venerable gentleman, in defeating the intrigues a-
On the return of the Committee to the house
gainst the peace of 1783. This was founded on a
supposition, that the Court of France had entered | they made report and communicated the fol-
into intrigues, on that occasion, agninst the U. lowing written answer from Mr. Adams in
States. He doubted whether there was such ev. which he declined the appointment..
idence of that fact, as that we ought to assert it.
This resolution would be read abroad, as well as "Fellow-Citizens.--An election at my age
at home, and we ought to be careful therefore as
and in my circumstances by the free suffrages
to what is alledged. He believed that no public of so ample a representation of the fortunes
history hail given an account of such intrigues.;
and we were in possession of no regular dock .
and talents-the experience and wisdom--the
ments to prove the allegation. He doubted there- 1 authority, the virtues and the pietyof the an- .
fore the propriety of making this declaration, un- cient and renowned state of Massachusetts,
der such circumstances.
Mr. BLAKE, of Boston, expressed his satisfac-
I esteem the purest and fairest honour of
tion with the Preanıble as it stood He believed
my life, and my gratitude is proportionally
it to be true, and that documents existed by which
ardent and sincere.--I pray you gentlemen,
it could be prored.
to present to the convention my most cor-
Judge DAVIS, of Boston, said it was a delicate dial thanks.
subject, and doubled whether the expression
6 Your enumeration of services performed:
might not usefully be modified-It was desirable,
he thought, to avoid any thing which might be in-
for this country recals to iny recollection-
juriously interpreted.
the long services and succession of great and
Chief Justice PARKER observed, that he excellent characters with whom I have had
should be sorry that the Preamble should contain the honor to act in the former part of my
any thing which should not be satisfactory to every life, and to whose exertions I have endeav-.
gentleman present. He had no doubt, bowever, of
the truth of this part of it. He had the pleasure oured to add my feeble aid. Characters.
of knowing a gentleman, now a citizen of Maine, who have been cinployed by Divine Provi-
an early friend 10 this country, and an enlightened.dence as instruments in preserving and se-
friend to the liberties of all countries, and who was,
curing that unexampled liberty, which this
at that time, in a situation to command the best
nation now possesses.
sources of information; and from hin, as well as
from other sources, he had been satisfied as to the “That liberty which is the source of all our
truth of the statement in the Preamble in this par- happiness and prosperity--a prosperity which
ticular. He wished, however, to avoid any thing
cannot be contemplated by any virtuous mind
which might lead to a protracied discussion, and
without gratitude, consolation and delight.
should be quite willing lo adopt any modification
of the expression which should render the resolu- may it be perpetua). Gentlemen, as my age
tion.more conformable to the sense of the gentle- is generally known, it will readily be believed
men present.
that my forces are too far exhausted to per-
Judge STORY observed, that he had a view of
forin the arduous duties of the high office:
this question, somewhat different from that taken
which the benevolence of the Convention
by the Hon.gentleman from Groton. The Prcam-
ble to these resolutionsproſessed to contain a short has assigned to me.
summary of the political services of the eminent “I am therefore under the necessity to re-
and distinguished man, who had just been elected
quest permission of the convention to decline
Presidentot' this body--aud, for his part, he should
have thought that enumeration of services most un-
the appointment, and to pray that some oth-
satisfactory, if it had not made mention of this, in er gentleman may be elected, whose vigor-
his opinion, most important anel essential public olis age, and superior talents, may conduct
He believed no act of the venerable their deliberations with more convenience to
Gentleman's life liad been more marked with firm-
themselves, and with greator satisfaction to.
ness, ability and undaunied courage. To pass over
ihis, would be, he thought, to deprive hın of one
the people of the Commonwealth at large.
6 JOHN ADAMŠ.”
this best earned, and most valued laurels. If this
allair had not become ajatter of history, it was
time it had. Its truth was well known, to those of
This answer having been read, on motion:
this generation, in had iirended in the subject,and of the Hon. Mr. Bliss, it was resolved that
whouere acquaintric wich the history of the lealy the House proceed to the choice of a Presi...
oi 178.3—and he thought notizing more fit than that
dent in the place of the Hon. John Adams.in
ar, expressiva colhe sense of this Convention, ou
who declined the appointment. It was or- &
this importatil top!c, should now he made, since
dered that the Hon. Messrs. Wells of Bos-
The truth of the laci, k: presumed, existed in the
k07ledge and boiler or every geuleman present ion, Lyınan of Northhanpton, Lincolo of
service.
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
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'Worcester, Davis of Plymouth and Sullivan committee consisted of Messrs Dana, Russell,
of Brookline, be a committee to receive and of Boston, Parker of Charlestown, Abbot of
count the votes. The ballots being taken, Westford, and Hunt of Northampton.
the Committee reported that the whole num- On motion of Mr. Russel of Boston,a com-
her of votes was 388, necessary for a choice mittee was appointed on the election and rex
195, that the Hon. Isa AC PARKER, had 195, turns of delegates, consisting of Messrs Da-
and was chosen. The other votes were for na, Richardson of Dedham, Hubbard of Bos-
Hon. Judge Story 1.30, Hon. John Phillips | ton, Cummings of Salem, Bangs of Worces-
52, and eleven scattering.
ter, Hodges of Taunton, and Moses Porter of
This result being declared, Chief Justice Hadley.
Parker, addressed the House in substance as On motion of Mr. SHAW, of Boston, it was
follows:
ordered that a committee be appointed to re-
He said he felt highly honoured by port Rules and Orders for the regulation of
the appointment. That he had been for the House, and that in the mean time the
thirty years' unaccustomed to the pro- rules and orders of the House of Represent-
ceedings of deliberative bodies, and atives be the rules of the Convention as far
was probably not so competent as ma- as they are applicable. This committee was
ny gentlemen about him to perform composed of Messrs. Shaw, Leland, of Rox-
the duties of the office; but he felt it bury, Saltonstall of Salem, Locke of Ashby,
his duty to accept, trusting that many gen- i and Parker, of Charlestown.
tlemen more versed in the forms of pro- Mr. WEBSTER of Boston presented the re-
ceedings in legislative bodies would aid him monstrance of Ganialiel Bradford and oth-
with their advice and counsel. He could un- ers inhabitants of Charlestown, against the
dertake that in the exercise of his duties hell election of Leonard M. Parker one of the
would be strictly inpartial, and that he would Delegates returned for that town, on account
be ready to listen to the superior wisdom ofl of the irregular proceedings of the select-
those about him. If he had preconceived on men who presided at the election. The
pinions with respect to the constitution they ground of objection is, that a vote having
should not interfere with the impartial dis- passed telect six delegates, and a ballot for
eharge of his duty. It would be one object to six laving resulted in the choice of five per-
preserve order in tlie deliberations and pro- sons only, a motion was niade that the vote
ceedings of the house. This would not be dif- ) should be rescinded so far as related to the
ficult, seeing how the house was composed,be- ) election of a sixth-and that the five per-
ing a fair representation of a people remarka- sons chosen should be the delegates for the
ble for their habits of order and decorun). town--which motion the Selecimen refused
With respeet to any thing in which greater to put, as well as an appeal from the deci-
experience was requisite, he should rely on the sion of the Selectmen that the inotion was ir-
aid of gentlemen capable of rendering the as- regular. A new ballot was called for and
sistance he should require. He proceeded at eight or nine o'clock it was declared that
to declare his acceptance of th: appointment, Mr. Parker was elected. This remonstrance
and was conducted to the Chair.
was referred to the Comiittee on elections
On motion of Gen. Varum, of Dracuit, it and returns.
was ordered that the Secretary be directed to On a motion of Mr. RUSSELL of Bos-
furnish a competent number of copies of the ton, it was ordered that a inessenger to the
Constitution of the Commonwealth inter- House should be appointed with authority to
leaved, for the use of the members of the appoint such assistance as should be neces-
House.
sary. The President appointed Jacob Kuhn
On motion of Mr. Prince of Boston, the
to this office.
House resolved that they would now attend
Mr. WEBSTER moved that the Chap-
prayers. On the invitation of the president, Hlains of the two houses of the Legislature be
the Rev. Dr. Freeman led in the devotions of ll requested to officiate alternately as the
the House.
Chaplains to the Convention.' Before this
On motion of the Hon. Mr Morton, of motion was disposed of, an adjournment was
Dorchester, it was ordered that a chair should called for, and after agreeing, on motion of
be frovided on the right of the President, Mi Prince, that the hour of meeting daily
and appropriated as the permanent seat of should be ten o'clock in the morning until
the Hon. John Adams.
otherwise ordered The House adjourned.
On motion of Lieut Governor Phillips,
modified at the suggestion of Judge Dana it
was ordered, that a committee be appointed
for arranging the seats of the members, and
TIIURSDAY, vov: 16,--Al 10 o'clock the
providing suitable seats for the accommoda-
president took the chair., The Hon. John
tion of His Excellency the Governor and the
Adams was introduced by a committee ap-
members of the Council when they should
pointed for the purpose, and conducted to the
choose to attend the Convention. This
seat assigned him on the right of the Presi:
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
:
called up:
dent. As he entered, the members of the || supplicating one in the majority, to make a
Convention rose and stood uncovered until motion for him.
he was seated,
Mr.QUINCY of Boston, said, that from the
The Convention attended prayers offered very nature of a proposition for reconsidera-
by the Rev. Dr. Baldwin on invitation of the tion it should come from the majority. It is
President, no Chaplain having been chosen. a proposition to review, for the purpose of
Gen. Porter of Hadley, Messrs. Greenleaf furnishing the opportunity for members to
of Quincy, Endicott of Dedham, Howard vote differently from what they had already
of Bridgewater, and Valentine of Hopkinton, voted. The motion therefore should come
were appointed monitors of the Convention. || from one who wished this opportunity,' and
The order of the day, being Mr. Webster's not froin those who were satisfied with the
motion that the Chaplains of the two houses vote they had given, and only wished to briug
of the General Court, should be requested to the majority to their opinion. He said, also,
serve as Chaplains of the Convention, was
that it was improper that a member who has
had the opportunity of urging his views and
Col. TURNER of Scituate moved as a sub- been overruled by the House, should have
stitute to the motion, that the several Cler-
the power of renewing it under the shape of
gymen of different denominations in the
a reconsideration,
town of Boston, should be requested to offi- Mr. SLOCUMB, of Dartmouth, said that
ciate alternately. This motion was declar- he was afraid we were pursuivg a shadow
ed to be out of order. Mr. Webster's mo-
and losing the substance. That by endeav-
tion was put and carried in the affirniative.
ouring to save time bý‘limiting the right of
For the motion 232.
reconsideration, we might be disabled from
Mr. SHAW, from theCommittee appoint- coming to the most mature results ; that a
ed to report rules and orders for the regula- || minority of great talents because they were
tion of the Convention, made a report. out-voted would be deprived of the opportu-
The report with the amendinent subsequent- | nity of enlightening the majority and induc-
ly adopted, will be found at the end of this || ing them to change their opinion, uniess i
day's proceedings.
soine one would accommodate them by mak-
A rule in the original report, providing that ing the motion.
in case the President should be absent at the Mr.WEBSTER said he considered the
time for calling the House to order, one of rule to be of great importance ; he wished
the monitors should call the house to order, \ every subject which came before the Con-
and preside until a President pro-tempore | vention to be thoroughly discussed, but he
should be chosen, was the subject of some de- wished it to be done according to the rules of
bate. The rule was finally altered so as to legialative bodies, which amply provided for
make it the duty of the Secretary to preside mature deliberation, and guarded against
in the case specified.
surprise by requiring every act to pass through
Mr. BLISS, of Springfield, moved to a- several readings at prescribed periods. Eve-
mend the rule providing for the case of re- ry member conversant with the proceedings
consideration in such manner, that no vote of deliberative assemblies must have obsery-
of the House should be reconsidered, excepted the inconvenience from the practice of
on motion of a member who voted with the || frequently reconsidering votes which' have.
majority.
been passed. No vote should pass without
A member, whose name we did not learn, every member being ready to act upon it at
objected to the amendment, that it would pre-
the several stages.
clude any one who was absent, or did not Mr. SIBLEY,of Sutton,said he had anoth-
vote, froin the right of moving a reconsider- er objection to the amendment of the mem-
ation,
ber from Springfield ; that it was impossi-
Mr. WEBSTER said that it was proper it
ble to tell who did vote in the majority, and
should operate in that manner; it was the that some mode therefore of ascertaining
duty of every inember to be present. No this should be inserted in the rule. · He was
one should be absent flattering himself that however himself opposed to the whole a-
he might remedy any mischief that he con- Inendment.
eeived to be done in his absence, by moving Mr. QUINCY,said that if the question had
a reconsideration of the subject.
been taken by yeas and nays, it would ap-
Mr. DANA, of Groton, observed that we pear on the journals who voted in the major-
ought to guard against trammelling ourselves
ity, and in any case, the member moving
with too much regulation. He thought it for a reconsideration would show his right
improper that the right of moving for re- to make the motion by stating that he had.
consideration should be confined to one who
so voted.
voted in the majority. We are in the habit Mr. FOSTER, of Littleton, said he was
of reviewing our proceedings, and an oppor- not satisfied with the rule. He said, we
tunity for reconsideration should-be open. were debarred by it of privileges to which
Besides, it might be unpleasant for a member
we had been accustomed. It had been urg-
in the minority, to be under the necessity of 'led that it would shorten debate, but he said
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION. .
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that a minority might convince the majority | hibits any one in debate from speaking of a
and it was inore important to come to a member who is present, by his name.“ Не
right decision than to save the time of the thought that in smaller bodies the rule was a
convention.
good one, but in the present assembly con-
Mr. PRINCE,of Boston,spoke against the | taining so many members from a single town,
ainendment. He agreed that it was the du- it was in some instances impossible to desig-
ty of members to be present. But a mem- nate an individual alluded to, in the mode
ber from one of the neighbouring towns required by the rule,
might go home on Saturday with the
best in- Mr. STORY, of Salem, said it was not i
tentions of returning on Monday, but be pre- consistent with the dignity of the assembly
vented by a storm or accident. He thought to depart from the usage of all deliberative
that in any such case they ought not to be bodies, and to permit individuals to be called
precluded from the right of being heard. by name in debate. He thought there would
Mr. MATTOON, of Amherst, moved be no difficulty in adhering to the rule.
that this article should be recommitted to Mr. PICKMAN, of Salem, spoke against
the committee; who reported it.
the amendment.
Mr. DAWES, of Boston, opposed the re- Mr. SIBLEY, was in favor of the amend-
commitment, and expressed his hope that ment. He thought the rule unnecessary.-
the motion to amend would prevail, for the Our rules would be known abroad, and he
reasons that had been stated, and for the ad- was averse to its going across the Atlantic
ditional one, that in all large bodies some that we are so uncivil, as to require being
members wanted to be speaking all the time, trammelled by such rules.
and it was necessary to have rudes to restrain Mr. WEBSTER, observed, that the
them. With respect to the difficulty of the best argument in favor of the rule was, that
gentleman from Sutton, that there was no the reasons offered against it, are in contra-
mode of ascertaining who was in the majori- | diction to each other. It was objected to by
ty, he said we might rely on the honor of a- the mover of the amendment, that it could
ny member of the Convention.
not be enforced, and by the gentleman who
Mr. BLAKE, of Boston, was opposed to last spoke, that it would enforce itself.
the recommitment because he was satisfied Mr. SIBLEY rose to explain. The mo-
with the amendment proposed. He said tion to amend was withdrawn).
that if ever there were an occasion for being Mr. MORTON moved to amend the role
governed by prescribed rules of proceeding regulating the taking of yeas and nays. He
to prevent debates fiom running to an un- moved to strike out the number 6 fifty," re-
necessary length, it is now, in so numerous quired for taking the yeas and nays, and to
an assembly, almost a council of five hun- insert one hundred." He said that much
dred. From the importance of the occasion time was wasted in a call of the yeas and
every member would be disposed to be in his nays, and that fifty was too small a number
place.'
of members to be entitled to make ihe cal).
Mr. MATTOON said that he did not His motion was adopted—226 in favour, and
move to recommit, because he was averse to 137 against it.
the amendment; on the contrary, he approv- Mr. QUINCY moved to-strike out the rule
ed of it ; but he thought the recommitment for the purpose of introducing a substitute,
would give an opportunity to gentlemen of the nature and object of which he explained.
considering the subject and satisfying them- | This motion was carried, 297 voting in fayor.
selves.
He proposed a rule, which he modified on
Mr. APTHORP, of Boston, spoke in fav- the suggestion of Mr. Welles, of Boston, re-
or of the recommitment.
quiring one fifth of the members present to
Mi, MORTON, of Dorchester, was op- support a call for the yeas and nays. This
posed to the recommitment and to the amend- substitute was accepted. .
ment. He said every member should have The report as amended was accepted, with
equal rights, and that he would rather pro- the exception of the rule recommitted.
hibit all reconsideration, than that a delegate Mr. TURNER moved that a committee
from one town should be allowed to call for be appointed to determine the compensation
it, while the right was denied to another. of the Members of the Convention, and to
Mr. AUSTIN, of Boston, was in favor of make out a pay-roll. At the suggestion of
the amendment, but thought it necessary to Mr. Sibley, Mr. Turner agreed to sever the
recommit, for the purpose of rendering the motion. The first part was then voted, and
rule more perfect in another respect. He re- a committee appointed, consisting of Messrs
plied to the argument of the gentleman who | Turner, Sibley, Rantoul of Beverly, Draper
preceded him.
of Brookfield, and Prince of Newburyport.
The question of recommitment was taken, Messrs. Ellis, of Dedham, Sturgis, .cf Bos-
and decided in the affirmative, 249 10 97, ton, and Shepard, of Salem, were appointed
Mr:JOHN PHILLIPS, of Boston, moved a committee to draft a pay roll.
to amend by striking out the rule which pro- Mr. DANA rose, and after observing that
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
the house was now organized, and that it ed with reverence ; that it should be touch
was necessary to proceed to the business for ed with a trembling hand, and he believed
which the Convention was called, declared that the Convention would proceed with the
that he felt embarrassed in proposing any greatest caution. It had stood the test of for-
course of proceeding. He said that after ty years; we had grown up under it; it was
forty years experience of the beneficial ef- interwoven with our habits and associations ;
fects of the constitution, the people had seen our institutions were founded upon it; and
fit to choose delegates to make a revision of no one could predict what would be the con-
it. He had not had opportunities for judging | sequences of any innovations in it. The on-
of the sense of the people at large, but he || ly safe rule for our direction, should be, ex-
knew that it was the opinion of those he had perience. Whatever alteration experience
been with, particularly of his own constitu- had demonstrated to be necessary or benefi-
ents, that the constitution should be ap- cial, ought to be adopted, and no other.--
proached with great reverence, and that we Wherever there is doubt whether an altera-
should proceed with the greatest caution. tion will be beneficial, it is our duty to wait
He was much relieved from his apprehen- for further light from experience. We had
sions of any evil consequences, by the ap- | just reason to feel a degree of pride that for-
pearance of the assembly, composed as it ty years ago, men and statesmen were found
was, of men of so much experience ; of so frame, and the people had virtue and intel-
many who had been called to administer the ligence enough to adopt a better frame of
government in the legislative and judiciary government, than any on earth before
departments.
that day. It had served, in some measure,
He observed that a revision must be had; as a model for all that have been formed
the constitution was made in the time of war since. How great would be the reproach, if
and soon after the declaration of indepen- | after the lapse of forty years, we should
dence, and some changes were necessary. make alterations to impair the benefits
He doubted his ability to suggest the best derived from this Constitution.
course of proceeding.
No change had been wished, no Conven-
He said that the constitution must either tion had been thought of until the formation
be re-drafted or the amendments be inter- of a new state from a part of the Common-
woven with it. For the purpose of enabling | wealth. The people were satisfied with the
the convention to shape their course of pro- constitution and did not wish to avail them-
ceeding, and to draw forth abler men than selves of the opportunity of revision in 1795,
himself he would submit the following prop- when it might be done in conformity
osition : That the part of the constitution with the constitution itself. Discontent with
relating to the Senate should be so amended the government had sometimes shewn itself,
that there should be thirty-one Senators cho- but none with the constitution ; and the re-
sen to act as Senators only and apportioned | vision now wouid not have been thought of,
in districts according to the number of in- but from the supposed necessity in conse-
habitants.
quence of the separation of Maine from the
Mr. WEBSTER moved that the resolu. Commonwealth.
tion be committed to a committee of the He inferred this from what he knew of the
whole house and be made the order the day opinions of the people, and from the small
for tomorrow.
number of votes which were given on the
Mr. RUSSELL of Boston was desirous proposition for a convention. It may have
that this subject should not be discussed un- been expedient to take the subject of amend-
til the committee for the arrangement of the ment into consideration. We had lived se-
seats had made their report, and that it curely and happily under the constititution,
should be made the order of a more distant but changes take place in the condition of
day.
human affairs; defects creep into the best in-
Mr. VARNUM, of Dracut, wished that a stitutions.
different plan might be pursued from that He proceeded to consider in what manner
proposed by the gentleman from Grøton.-
the duty imposed upon the convention could
He said we were appointed to revise the be best performed. He agreed with the gen-
the Constitution, and he thought it our duty tleman from Dracut, that we were to revise
to begin at the beginning of it and go through the whole constitution, and to report to the
it in course.
people our opinion on the whole. He thought
Mr. PRESCOTT, of Boston, rose and it wonld be necessary to submit the suhject
said that he had a motion to make when to a committee. A committee of the whole
it should be in order, which he thought was too numerous to discuss it advantageous-
would meet the views of the gentle- ly, and it was indispensable that it should g®
man from Dracut, though not precisely sim- into the hands of a smaller number. Shall
ilar to the one he had suggested. He said it tlien be submitted entire to one large
he concurred with the gentleman from Grot- conimittee, or in parts to several ?
an that the Constitution should be approach- ||There were objections to the first mode.
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
115
ܪ
may be.
to
A single conimittee could'embrace but a small section of the second chapter of the second part,
portion of the intelligence of the house ; they / and respects the Secretary, Treasurer, Commissa-
rý, &c. be referred to a committee to take into
would have too much to do ; their attention
consideration the propriety and expediency of
would be distracted, and while they were
making any, and if any, what alterations or amend-
preparing their report the principal part of ments therein, and report thereon as soon as may
the assembly would remain unoccupied.
be.
They would not be able to report upon a
7. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution of
this Commonwealth as is contained in the third
part so soon as a committee whose attention
chapter of the second part, and respects the Judi-
was confined to that part. He had thought || ciary Power, be referred to a committee to
with other gentlemen with whom he had take into consideration the propriety ana expedien-
conversed that it could be examined with cy of making any, and if any, what alterations or a-
mendments therein, and report thereon as soon as
greater despatch and clearness by apportion-
ing it to several select commicteés. He said 8. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution of
that no inconvenience could arise from this this Commonwealth as is contained in the fourth
course, as a distinct subject could be referred chapter of the second part, and respects Delegates
to each committee. He would have the
to Congress, be referred to a committee ta
take into consideration the propriety and expe-
committees as large as could well act on the || diency of making any, and if any, what alterations
subject. Te should thus have all the
or amendments therein, and report thereon as soon
different parts revising at the same time. as may be.
--Some of the committees who would have -9. Resolved, Thet so much of the Constitution of -
this Commonwealth as is contained in the fifth
much labour would report late, and others
chapter of the second part, and respects the Uni-
in a short time. With these views, he had
versity at Cambridge, and the encouragement of
prepared some resolutions which he would | Literature, &c. be referred to a committee
submit. He then proceeded to read the fol to take into consideration the propriety and
lowing resolves, accompanied with re-
expediêncy of making any, and if any, what alterae
tions or amendments therein, and report thereon as
marks upon each.
soon as may be.
1. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution of 10. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution
this Commonwealth as is contained in the first part of this Commonwealth as is contained in the sixth
or declaration of Rights, be referred to a Commit- chapter of the second part, and respects oaths and
tee to take into consideration the propriety
subscriptions, &c., be referred to a committee
and expediency of making any, and if any
take into consideration the propriety snd
wbat alierations or amendments therein, and re- expediency of making any, and if any, what al-
port as soon as may be.
terations or amendments therein, and report there-
2. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution of on as soon as may be.
this Commonwealth as is contained in the first
section of the first Chapter of the second part, and Upon reading each resolve he communica“.
respects the General Court, be referred to a Com- ted the principal objects embraced by it
mittee to take into consideration the propriety and proposed that the Committee should be
and expediency of making any, and if any what | larger or smaller according to the importance
alterations or amendments therein, and re-
port thereon as soon as may be.
and difficulty of the several subjects. He
3. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution of said that he would propose upon the bill of
this Commonwealth as is contained in the second rights einbraced by the first resolve a very
section of the first Chapter of the second part, and
large Committee, to consist perhaps of twen-
respects the Senate; and also so much thereof as
is contained in the third section of the same Chap-
ty-one members. The part of the constitu-
ter, and respects the House of Representatives, be tion relating to the Senate and house of Re-
referred to a
Committee to take into presentatives embraced in the third resolve,
sideration the propriety and expediency of he would have committed to a Committee
making any, and if any, what'alterations or amendo llegally large. This subject he said was of
mients therein, and report thereon as soon as may
be.
great importance, and one on which there
4. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution of might be a difference of opinion. The arti-
this Commonwealth as is contained in the first sec- cle relating to the Senate was generally con-
tion of the second Chapter of the second part, and sidered to require amendment. As to the
l'espects the Governor, Militia, &c. be relerred to
House of Representatives he did not know
a Committee to take into consideration the
propriety and expediency of making any, and if
that any ainendment would be expected.
any, what alterations or amendments therein, and No doubt inconveniences were experienced
report thereon as soon as may be.
.
from the large number of representatives,but
5. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution of
he should be opposed to any alteration un-
this Commonwealth as is contained in the second
section of the second Chapter of the second part,
less it could be made in a manner which
and respects the Lieut. Governor; and also, só would be generally satisfactory. The sub-
much thercof as is contained in the third section of ljects embraced by the other resolves had
the same Chapter, and respects the Council and fewer difficulties and might be referred to
the manner of settling Elections by the Legislature,
smaller committees.
be referred to a Committee to take into consid-
eration the propriety and expediency of mak-
He wished it to be distinctly understood
ing any, and if any, what alterations or amendments that he made these propositions because he
therein, and report thereon as soon as may be. thought it their duty to act upon the whole
6. Resolved, That so much of the Constitution of subject, not that he expected or desired any
this Commonwealth as is contained in the fourth
con-
(
16
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION. .
}
1
$
alterations on all the articles or on any'ex- one member doubts the vote, the President shall
cept such as are necessary.
order a return of the convention, with the numbers
Mr. DANA then said that as the subject y voting in the affirmative and in the negative, and
had been examined and fully reviewed by Sec. 4. He shall rise to put a question or ad-
the distinguished gentleman who had brought dress the Convention, but may read sitting.
forward these propositions, whose views he Sec. 5. In all cases, the President may vote.
Sec. 6. When the Convention shall determine to
was happy to find as far as he could under-
go into a committee of the whole, the President
stand them nearly coincided with his own,
shall appoint the member who shall take the chair.
withdrew his motion.
Sec. 7. When any member shall require a ques-
Mr. PRESCOTT then laid his resolu- tion to be determined by yeas and nays, the Presi-
tions on the table and they were read from
dent shall take the sense of the Covention in that
the chair.
manner, provided that one fifth of the members
present are in favor of it.
Mr. VARNUM moved that they should
Sec. 8. He shall propound all questions, in the
lie upon the table until tomorrow. He said order they were moved, unless the subsequent mo-
he was afraid that if they took the constitu- tion be previous in its æature ; except that in nam-
tion to pieces and dissected it in the manner
ing sums and fixing times, the largest sum and the
longest time shall be first put.
proposed, they should not be able to put it
Sec. 9. After a motion, being seconded, is stat-
together again. It was like sending me-
ed or rtad by the President, it shall be deemed to
chanics into the woods in different directions be in possession of the Convention, and shall be
to hew down trees and fit them there for a disposed of by vote of the Convention ; but the
building. He thought that the whole should mover may withdraw it at any time before a decis-
ion or amendment.
be considered together.
Sec. 10. When a question is under debate, no
It was then ordered that the resolves lie
motion shall be received but to adjourn,--10 lay on
on the table till tomorrow and be the order the table ; for the previous question,--to postpone
of the day, and be printed in the mean time
indefinitely,to postpone to a day certain,to
for the use of the members.
commit, or to amend; which several motions
Mr DANA, of the committee for arrang-
shall have precedence, in the order in which they
stand arranged.
ing the seats reported that the members, ex- Sec. 11. The President shall consider a motion
cept monitors, should draw lots in presence of to adjourn as always in order, and it shall be de-
cided without debate.
the Secretary and the Messenger. And that
Sec. 12. He shall put the previous question in
members should be at liberty to make ex-
the following form, “ shall the main question be
changes within five days, giving notice to the now put," and all amendment or further debate
Secretary.
of the main question shall be suspended, until the
On motion of Mr Webster, ordered, that previous question be decided ; and the previous
the oldest member of the Boston delegation question shall not be put, unless a majority of the
members present are in favor of it.
should give notice to the Chaplains of the Sec. 13. When two or more members happen
vote passed in relation to them, and request to rise at once, the President shall name the mem-
them to perform the duties of Chaplains of ber who is first to speak.
the Convention.
Sec. 14. All committces, except such as the
Convention shall from time to time determine to
Mr QUINCY at the request of the propri- select by ballot, shall be nominated by the Presi-
etors of the Boston Athæneum, informed the dent.
members of the Convention that their libra- Sec. 15. The President shall have the general
ry and rooms were open for their use when-
direction of the Hall of the Convention, and of the
ever they should choose to visit them.
Galleries. No person excepting members, officers
and attendants of the convention and such persons
Adjourned.
as may be invited by the convention, or by the Pre-
sident shall be admitted within the Hall. The
chairman of each committee of the whole during
the sitting of such committee, shall have the like
RULES AND ORDERS
power of preserving order in the hall and in the
To be observed in the Convention of Delegates
galleries.
CHAPTER II.
for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts,
met on Wednesday, the 15th of November, of the duties, rights and decorum of members.
1820.
Sec, 1. When any member is about to speak in
CHAPTER I.
debate or deliver any matter to the convention,
he shall rise and respectfully address the Presi-
Of the Duties and Powers of the President.
dent; he shall confine himself to the question un-
Sec. 1. The President shall take the chair eve- der debate, and avoid personality. He shall sit
ry day, precisely at the hour to which the Con- down as soon as he has done speaking:
vention may have adjourned ; shall call the mem- Sec. 2. No member in debate shåll mention a
bers to order, and on the appearance of a quorum, member then present by his name ; but may, de-
shall cause the journal of the preceding day to be scribe him by the town he represents, the place
read and proceed to business.
he sits in, or such other designations as may be
Sec. 2. 'He shall preserve decorum and order ; intelligible and respectful.
he may speak to points of order in preference to Sec. 3. No member speaking shall be interrupt-
other members, and shall decide all questions of ed by another, but by rising up to call to order, or
order subject to an appeal to the convention, on to correct a mistake. But if any member in speak-
motion of any member regularly seconded.
ing or otherwise, transgress the rules of the con-
Sidc.3. He shåll declare all votes; but if any vention, the President shall, or any meniber may,
1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
17
call to order, in which case, the member so called for or against the question, when called on by the
to order, shall immediately sit down unless permit- President, shall rise, and stand uncovered, until
ted to explain, and the convention shall, if appeal- they are counted.
ed to, decide on the case, but without debate; if
CHAPTER III.
there be no appeal, the decision of the chair shall
be submitted to,
Of the appointment and duties of Monitors.
Sec. 4. No member shall speak more than twice Sec. 1. One Monitor shall be appointed by the
to the same question, without first chtaining leave of
President for each division of the Convention,
the convention, nor nore than once, until all other
whose duty it shall be to see the due observance of
members desiring to speak, shall have spoken.
the orders of the Convention, and on demand of
Sec. 5. When any member shall make a motion
the President or of the Chairman in committee of
and such motion shall be seconded by another, the
the whole,to return the number of votes and mem-
same shall be received and considered by the con-
bers in their respective divisions.
vention, and not otherwise ; and no member shall
Sec. 2. If any member shall transgress any of
be permitted to lay a motion in writing ou the table
the rules or orders of the Convention, and shall
until ne has read the same in his place, and the
persist therein after being notified thereof by any
same has been secondcd.
Monitor, it shall be the duty of such Monitor to
Sec. 6. Every motion shall be reduced to writ-
give information thereof to the Convention.
ing iſ the President direct it.
Sec. 3. In case the President shall be absent at
Sec, 7, not accepted but recommitted.]
the hour to which the Convention stands adjourn-
Sec. 8. No member shall be permitted to stand ed, the Secretary shall call the Convention to or-
up to the intervention of another, whilst any mem- der, and shall preside until a President pro tempoſé
ber is speaking, or pass unnecessarily between the
shall
be chosen, which shall be the first business of
President and the person speaking:
the Convention.
Sec. 9. When a vote is declared by the President,
and any member rises to doubt the vote, the Con-
CHAPTER IV.
vention shall be returned and the vote inade cer-
Of Communications, Committees, Reports and Reso-
taip, without any further debate, upon the question.
.
lutions.
Sec. 10. Every member neglecting to give his
Sec. 1. All memorials and other papers, ad.
attendance in Convention for more than six days
dressed to the Convention, shall be presented by
after the commencement of the session, shall be
held to render the reason of such neglect; and in
the President, or by a Member in his place, and
case the reason assigned shall he deemed by the
shall lie on the table, to be taken up in the order
in which they were presented, unless the Conven-'
Convention sufficient, such member shall be entit-
tion shall otherwise direct.
led to receive pay for his travel, but not otherwise,
No member shall be absent more than two days | ting of the Convention, without special leave.
Sec. 2. No Conmittee shall sit, during the sit-
without leave of the Convention, and no leave of
absence shall avail any member, who retains his
sec. 3. The rules of proceeding in Convention
shall be observed in a committee of the whole, 50
seat more than five days, from the time the same
was obtained.
far as they may be applicable, excepting the role
fore the Convention, shall be left with the Clerk, li ber choosing to speak shall have spoken.
Sec. 11. All papers relative to any business-be- 1) limiting the times of speaking ; but no member
shall speak twice to any question, until every nen-
by any member who may obtain leave of absence,
having such papers in his possession.
Sec. 4. Every motion or resolution, which pro-
Sec. 12. When any member shall violate any of|| poses an alteration in the Constitution, and all re-
the rules and orders of the Convention, and the
ports of committees, appointed to consider the
Convention shall have determined that he has so
propriety and expediency of making any alteration
transgressed, he shall not be allowed to speak or
iherein, shall be discussed in committee of the
vote, until he has niade satisfaction, unless by way
whole, before they are debated and finally acted
of excuse for the same.
upon in Convention:
Sec. 5. Every resolution of the Convention, pro-
Sec.'13. Every member who shall be in the Con-
vention when a question is put, shall give his vote, posing any alteration in the Constitution, shall be
unless the Convention for special reasons shall ex-
read on two several days, before it is finally acted
cuse him.
upon and adopted by the Convention.
Sec. 14. On a previous question no member shall
Sec. 6. In all elections hy ballot, of committees
speak without leave, more than once.
of the Convention, the persen having the highest
number of votes shall act as chairman; and when
Sec. 15. A motion for commitment, until it is de
the committee is nominated by the Chair, the per-
ceided, shall preclude all amendment of the main
on first named shall be chairman.
question.
Sec. 16 All motions and reports may be com-
mitted or re-committed, at the pleasure of the Con-
vention.
Sec. 17. The division of a question may be cal-
FRIDAY, NOV. 17.The members of the Con.
led for, where the sense will admit of it; but a
vention having drawn for places in the interval
question to strike out and insert sball be deemed
since the last adjournment, in pursuance of the or-
iudivisible.
der of yesterday, took their seats this morning.
Sec. 18. When the reading of a paper is called
The committee appointed to inform the Chap-
lains of the two houses of the General Court of
for, and the same is objected to by my member,
it shall be determined by a yote of the Convention.
the vote yesterday in relation to them, having
Sec. 19. The unfinished business, in which the
reported that they accepted the appointment ag
Convention was engaged, at the time of the last
Chaplains of the Convention, and the house being
called to order by the President, prayer was made
adjournment, shall have the preference in the or-
ders of the day, and no motion or any other busi-
hy the Rev. Mr. JENKS, Chaplain of the House of
ness shall be received without special leave of the
Representatives.
Convention, until the former is disposed of.
I'le journal of yesterday's proceedings was read
Sec. 20. No standing rule or order of the Con-
by the Secretary
Hon. JOHN ADAMS, of Quincy, rose,
vention shall be rescinded or changed, without one
day's notice being given of the motion therefor.
and observed that the Convention was yes-
Sec. 21 When a vote is doubted, the members | terday informed that the Proprietors of the
t
!
18
1. MASSACHUSETÍS CONVENTION.
3
1
}
Boston Athépæum had tendered to the mem- || Prescott that the whole eonstitution was to
bers of the Convention the use of their Li- be révised by us. This sentiment" met with
brary collections. He thought that such an his entire and hearty approbation. He ap-
instance of politeñess deserved a return on proved of the form in which the subject had
tire part of the convention. He therefore been presented in these resolutions, because
moved that the thanks of the Convention he presumed that different gentleinen had
be given to the Proprietors of the Athenæ- come with views to particular parts; and :
um for their liberal offer.
certain members would be better masters of. ::
A vote of thanks was passed accordingly, particular. parts than any could be of the
Col. TURNER, from the committee to whole entire. The several committees will
whom was referred the subject of compensa- || have studied the parts' referred to them, and
tion of members made a roport, which re- when their reports come in, they would be
port was laid on the table and read as fol- || more complete and satisfactory. There
lows:
would besides. be a large body of the men-
Ordered, That there be allowed and paid out of bers assembled, who could not be much em-
the Treasury of this Commonwealth to cach mem- ployed, till the subjects had been matured in
ber of the Convention, iwe dollars per day, for
the committees. That 'mode which will em-
each day's attendance on the Convention, and the
like sun for every ten miles travel from their re-
ploy the greatest number was the best. He
spective places of abode to the place of the sitting had not examined whether the subject could
of the Convention.
be differently divided, but it was not material
And be it further Ordered, That there be paid to in, what manner it was divided. The forms
the President of the Convention two dollars per
are such, that every member can be assured
day for each and every day's attendance over and
above his pay as a member.
that his propositions will have full considera-
The report was accepted.,
tion; and he was on the whole well satisfied
The order of the day being called up :
with the mode proposed. He was not able
Mr.. SLOCUM, of Dartmouth.-Mr.
to conceive a modê better adapted than the
President, I feel myself very incompetent to
one presented by the gentleman from Boston.
Mr. VARNUM, of Dracut. I am very
lead the way in the discussion which is to
take place on the subject of the resolves
sorry Mr. President, to be compelled to differ
from the Gentleman from Groton. Great
[proposed by Judge Prescott, which have | formality has been used in taking the sense
now been read. When I look around me
and see so many venerable men experienced large majority have voted in favor of a revis-
of the people of this Commonwealth, and a
in public affairs, some of whom have had a
share in making our constitution, and many have in consequence sent their delegates to
ion of the Constitution. The several towns
have taken a part in the administration of it
, look over the Constitution, and see whether
I feel the smalldess of my abilities, but I
it requires any, and what amendments. The
deem it my duty to express my sentiments
on the resolutions, confident that what is
people have judged for themselves that the
whole is to be revised; but now we are par-
welt iotended will be favorably received.
I thought the first question would be whether celling out the constitution, one part to one
committee, and another to another, before
we should make any amendinent in the con-
stitution ; but now we are taking this for
we have determined that any amendment
granted,
and parceiling it out in order to make ought to be made. Now that we are assem-
then. We are leaping the stile before we
bled in convention, it is our duty to inquire
what we are to do, and what we may not do.
get to it. I hope the report will not prevail ;
[The hon. gentleman then read the third section
I do not know that my wishes will prevail, or the act providing for calling the convention ;
but I think it my duty to express thein.. I which section, among other things prescribes, that
shall now sit down, and hear what other gen-
the Delegates elected, when organized, may take
tlemen have to say, and I shall be very hap making any, and if any, what alterations and amendo
into consideration the propriety and expediency of
py to be convinced by their arguments, other-
meats in the present Constitution of Government of
wise I shall reinain opposed to these resolu- the Commonivealth.]
tions.
He proceeded-We have met according
Mr. DANA, of Groton said, that as no to the act, in the Siate-House in Boston.
gentleman rose to present his views to the So far we have done right. What further
Convention, be rould make a few. observa- then are we to do? We are to take into
tious. He said that the inquiry now present-
consideration whether the constitution re-
ed, was whether the mode proposed was the quires any amendment. It appears to me
best method of entering upon the business of that we are not to touch a finger to the sac-
the Convention. The old convention had no red instrument, under which our institutions
land-parks to direct them in the course, have grown up; under which we have so long
which shey were to pursue ; but our labours || enjoyed prosperity and happiness, until this
were of a different kind. We had a consti- ll question is decided. We are not to begin by
turion, nich was believed by many to be parcelling it out in the manner proposed by
perfect already. It was stated by the gen- these resolutions. In my opinion, our only
teman who moved the resolutions, (Judge proper way is to read the whole constitution,
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
either in convention, or in a committee of they must be, at some time or other examin
the whole, and point out those parts which ed in all their parts. Can this be done more
require amendment, proceeding article by satisfactorily than by dividing the whole in-
article. The convention is sent here to con- strument among a number of respectable
sider what will be for the public good, not coinmittees,leaving it to the whole convention
only of this generation, but of thousands yet to judge and act upon their reports
, and after-
unborn. What are the objections to the wards upon the whole constitution ?-There
inode which I am recommending ? That it was a great variety of opinions. Almost'ére.
will waste time? Instead of consuming time, ry individual had formed his particular pro-
Mr. President, it will save time. Thoseject for amendment. Each one had his
parts which we pass over will stand firm, and own ingredients to throw into the political
those only which require amendment, will be cauldron, and it might be imagined what
left to occupy our attention; but if we send would be the mixture. He said it was their
out committees, their reports will be discussed duty to bring into exercise the greatest por-
as much as the whole constitutlon; and will tion of intellect which could be coinmanded in
thus cause a great deal of time to be wasted. this body,and it was no compliment to say, that
If these resolutions shall not be adopted, I it would be of the highest character. This
shall move, that the convention resolve itself | could not be done in any other manner, than
into a committee of the whole, in order that by placing, it in the bands of committees, ju-
it may take such a course as upon deliberation | diciously selected. He did not think there
shall be deemed expedient. I shall vote a- was any force in the suggestion made yester-
gainst the present motion, in order to bring day, that this mode was calculated to produce
forward the proposition I have before
sug
a mass of disjointed materials. If we assem-
gested ; and the subject now before the con- bled to form a new constitution, there might
vention, I esteem of such vital inportance, | be some aptness in the comparison of the gen-
that I shall call for the yeas and nays on the tleman (Gen. Varnum); but God forbid that
question when it shall be taken.
any of us should entertain an idea that we
The motion was then put, whether the question were to form a new constituzion. We have
when taken should be by yeas and nays, and car- the power to examine the instrument com-
ried-139 in favor-being more than one fifth of
mitted to us, to supply its defects. We have
the members present.
a fabric already erected-there may be de-
Mr. BLAKE, of Boston rose.-Professing || fects in it. Herbelieved that sucli as there
to have little acquaintance with the proceed- were arose rather froni accidental circuina
ings of Legislative bodies, he had originally stances, than from any inherent fault. He
contemplated no course as most appropriate believed that the manner which the gentle.
to this occasion. He was, however, yester- man from Dracut had proposed, would be at-
day much pleased with the mode proposed tended with great mischiefs; and that that
by these resolutions; and on further reflec- offered in the resolutions on the table was the
tion, he had been more and more satisfied best that could be devised.
that it was the best possible course that could
Mr. HUBBARD, of Boston, said: that as
be pursued. It was impossible to give a con- they were appointed to revise the whole con-
struction to the law by which we should not flstitution, che would move to amend the first
at some time or other examine every part of fl resolution, so as to include the preamble, to-
the venerable instrument.
What was
gether, with the Declaration of Rights.
more convenient time to proceed to exam-
The amendinent was adoptel.
ina it, and how could it be better done, than
by taking it up in several parts. The gen-
Mr. WEBSTER observed, that the ap-
tlemen from Dracut had observed that we
pointe ent of committees was no derogation
had no liberty to put our finger upon a sin- from the powers of the convention, nor a
gle article until we had examined the whole transfer of the trusts which the people had
instrument. He would ask, how it was pos, reposed in then, to uthers. It was certainly
sible to examine the whole constitution with-
true, that the convention, itself, was bound to
out considering it in parts?
inquire into the propriety and expediency of
MR. VARNUM rose to explain. His in making alterations in the constitution. But
dea was, that they had no right to parcel it
how was it to inquire? It was a nuinerous,
out until the convention had decided that deliberative body; clearly resembling, in its
the whole should be the subject of amend- organization, a numerous legislalive body.
It therefore had adopted its rules of proceed:
MR. BLAKE proceeded-How could the lings, in general, froin the practice of Legis-
convention determine whether the whole lative bodies; and, among others, the com
constitution should be subject of amendnients, mon rules respecting the appointnyent of
without first examining the parts of which it committees. He would ask, therefore, why
is composed ?-The language of the consti- it might not proceed in the important inquir-
(ution was simple and easily comprehended | ies before it, as other such Bodies are accus-
by persons of moderate capacity. Still it tomed to proceed ?. It had been urgec!, by
embraced a variety of important subjects, and the hon, meinber from Dracut, that no coma
a
iment.
20
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
nays 90.
mittee ought to be appointed, on any part of || that from the duty imposed upon the conveni-
the constitution, until the convention had tion by the law, there was no impropriety in
come to a conclusion that such part needed their adopting it, if they judged it the most
amendment. But why might not the con- suitable manner of comniencing their import-
vention commence an inquiry into this very ant inquiries.
matter,--the necessity of any alteration by The question was then taken by yeas and
a committee ? It seemed to be treated in nays, on the adoption of the first resolution
argument, as if it were a proposition to con- and carried in the affirmative-yeas 377,
fide in others, the authority committed to our
own hands. He did not look upon the pro- It was then moved that the question be ta-
position in that light. Comunittees are but ken on the rest of the resolutions together.
instruments and organs of the body which Agreed to.
appoints them.--They are but means, which The question on the acceptance of the oth-
the body uses to aid it, in its inquiries, and er nine resolutions was then taken and de-
investigations. The Constitution of this cided in the affirmative, without a division.
Commonwealth confers on the Gen. Court, On successive motions it was ordered that
and on no other Body, authority to lay taxes, the cominittee to whom should be referred
establish judicatures, and pass laws. The the part of the constitution embraced in the
General Court cannot transfer or delegate first resolution should consist of twenty one,
this power; and yet every one knows that in members. The committee under the 2d re-
exercising it
, the General Court uniformily | solution of fifteen members—the 3d of twen-
acts through the agency of Conimittees. ty-nine-the 4th of fifteen-the 5th of twen-
What tax is laid, what judicature established ty-one-thie 6th of fifteen--the 7th of fifteen
-what law passed, without committees first -the 8th of five-the 9th of twenty-one
appointed to inquire into the propriety and and the 10th of twenty-one.
expediency of the proposed measure in eve- Mr. CHILDS, of Pittsfield, said he hop-
ry case? He thought it a mere question ored it would not be indelicate or be thought
expediency and fitness, whether the Conven- to shew any want of respect to the Chair, if
tion should proceed in its inquiries, in the he should move that the committee on the
first place, by committees, or in an other first resolution should be chosen by ballot.--
course.. He was favorable to the appointment | He had no doubt that the President would
of Committees ;-among other reasons, be- act with the strictest impartiality, but he
cause he thought that mode would give thought it would be impossible for any sin-
greater security against ill-considered gle man to have such a knowledge of all the
and hasty propositions of change. members as to be able to appoint a commit-
We might, it was true, go into committee of tee on this important subject which should
the whole upon the constitution, in the first represent the interests and feelings of all the
instance, and go through it, paragraph by different parts of the commonwealth.
paragraph ; but he thought it better to follow Mr. WEBSTER spoke on the impracti-
the usual forms, and to inquire by commit- cability of the measure proposed. He said
teés in the first instance. Every body knew, it would be a great waste of time to choose
of course, that on the Report of any com- all the committees, one consisting of twenty
mittee being made, any member might op- ll one, another of twenty-nine members; and
pose it, or propose to amend it or to recom- the others of a large number of members.
init it ;-or, he might bring forward himself All the ballots that would be necessary, could
any tamendment to the constitution which not be gone through with in a week. To
the committee had not brought forward. No state the proposition, was enough to show it
member would be precluded from an oppor- to be impracticable. It was stated by the
tunity of submitting any proposition to the mover that the presiding officer could not
convention. At the same time, it might be have the requisite information. But his
confidently hoped, that the Reports of respec- || proposition rendered it necessary that every
table committees might contain useful sugges- | meinber should have the requisite informa-
tions and reasons on the subjects reported on tion. When they were nominated from the
by them, and right produce an effect on the chair the house would act upon each one,and
judgment and discretion of members, either confirm or reject it. The appoint-
with respect to the propriety of proposing | ments would be entirely within the power of
alterations. It was in this way, as he the house. This would be a sufficient check,
thought that the proceeding by way of com- if any were necessary, upon the presiding of-
mittees, while it left an entire liberty to every ficer, acting as he would under the responsi-
member, to bring forward his propositions, bility belonging to his station.
might yet have some tendency to produce a Judge STORY of Salem,said that the ex-
salutary caution in regard to the propriety of planation which had just been given by the
submitting, such propositions. This course gentleman from Boston showed very forcibly
seemed to him, on the whole, to be expedi- ] that there could be no advantage in choosing
ent, and he thought it quite clear, at least, the committee in the mode proposed in the
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
21
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motion. The inconvenience of this mode was calculated to defeat the object he had in
had been strongly pointed out. Yet-if he had view. In the nomination different men
any apprehensions that the interests, feelings i should bé selected for different objects.“
and opinions of every member would not be Some inembers had great experience in eer--
as fairly represented, by the usual mode of tain parts of the duty which would be requir-
nomination, he would be willing to go ed, and none in others. It was not in his
through the labour of ballotting for a whole power--perhaps it was in the power of few
week if it were. necessary. But for hinself individuals in the house to judge who were
he had not the means of knowing what gen- qualified to serve most acceptably on the dif:
tlemen were best qualified to serve on these ferent committeeś.
committees. Perhaps nineteen in twenty, The motion passed in the negative, with-
of those who ought to be appointed were out a division ; few members voting in favor
wholly unknown to him: Many of them hell of it.
had never seen, and probably he was in this The President said that he should re-
respect in the same situation, with ninety-nine quire a little delay, and that he would make
out of a hundred in the Convention. The the nomination tomorrow morning.
propriety of appointing one man depended Mr. FISHER, of Westborough, moved
on the question who wasto be his associate. that when the house adjourned, it should 'ad-
It would be necessary to select persons from journ to nine o'clock in the morning instead
different parts of the statë,and persons in dif- of the hour now fixed.
ferent situations and supposed to entertain Mr. DEARBORN, öf Roxbury, said he
different opinions on the subjects referred to thought that ten o'clock would be most con-
their consideration: Each member would venient to the generality of the members,
vote without knowing who would be voted and particularly to such as lived in some of
for by others, and must act according to his the neighbouring towns. Another meinber
own opinion, which of course could not be observed that, committees would want time
expected to prevail with respect to all. He in the morning and that ten o'clock was quite
thought that besides the inconveniences with early enough. The question was then taken
which this method would be attended, it was for altering the hour to nine o'clock, and was
calculated to produce the very evil the mover determined in the negative 271 to 127.
proposed to guard against. But, said he;when Mr.BEACH, of Gloucester, moved for at
I consider the character of the gentleman | reconsideration of the vote establishing the
from whom, by the rules of the house, the compensation of the members at two dollars
nomination will proceed, his station in the per day, for the purpose of fixing it at one
Commonwealth, bis station here, with all the dollar per day.
responsibility that belongs to it,' we have a Mr. DANÄ, moved thät this subject be
pledge which it is impossible should ever be assigned for tomorrow at 11 o'clock. Nega
violated, that no private motive should mingle atived. Mr. Beach's motion was then put
ivith considerations of duty in the selection and negatived, the mover and one other
of the committee. The eyes of every mem- member voting in the affirmative. The
ber of the convention are upon hina, and it house then adjourned.
would be impossible if he were disposed, and
that is not for a moment to be imagined, to
swerve from the line of strict impartiality.-
In the character of the presiding officer, we
SATURDAY, Nov. 18.-The Convention
have a pledge that the feelings and interests being called to order,the journal of yesterday
of all will be consulted. He will make the was read.
inost careful examination, and act upon the
ThePresident then informed the house that
best information which gentlemen can give he was ready to nominate the several com-
him. Even if it be possible, that from inad- mittees on the Resolutions passed yesterday.
vertence or any other cause, there should || The tiominations were confirined by a single
be any improper nomination, the check be- vote upon each committee.
longing to this body is not to be forgotten.--- The following gentlemen compose the several
It is coniplete in all its parts: , We can nega-
committees, viz.
tive any nomination, or can add to the com-
1st Resolve=Messrs. Bliss; of Springfield
mittee if it is not satisfactory to the house,
Varpum, of Dracut; Baldwin, of Boston ; Heard;
We are not bound to accept, and can make
of Ipswich ; Wingate; of Haverhill; Hoar, of
Concord; Sibley, of Sutton ; Estabrook, of
any amendments to the reports, which they || Athol; Hinckley, of North-Hampton; Blake,
shall inake: Thë convention is composed of Boston; Fowler, of Westfield ; Mason, of North's
of so much talent and character, that it is field ; Childs, nf Pittsfield; Woodbridge, of Stack.
impossible to smuggle any thing through the bridge ; Storrs
, of Bruintree ;-Endicott, of Ded.
house. Every report must be deliberated
ham ; Allyne, of Duxbury; Turner, of Scituate;
upon and adopted only upon conviction of || Morton, of Freetown; Leach, of Easton ; Free:
its propriety. He had these reasons for
noan, of Sandwich
2c Resolve-Messrs. Dana, of Groton; Stark-
thinking that the gentleman's proposition weather, of Worthington; Keyes, of Concord;
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
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Fiske, of Weston; Willard. of Fitchburg; S.Por-|| King, of Salem; Parris, of Marblehead; Skeppa
ter, of Hadley ; Hoyt, of Deerfield ; Trask, of ley, of Fitchburg; Hubbard, of Boston : Fiske,
Brimfield ; Hazard, of Hapoock; Whitton, of of Weston ; Dean, of Boston ; Hull, of Saadiga
Lee; Greenleaf, of Quincy, Weston, of Middle- field ; Baylies, of Wellington: Jethro Mitchell, of
borough ; Godfrey, of Taunton ; Cobb, of Brew- Nantucket; Mack, of Middlefield ; S. A. Wells,
ster; Hussey, of Nantucket.
of Boston; Walker, of Templeton.
3d Resolve-MessrsPrescott, of Boston; L.
Lincoln, of Worcester ; Saltonstall, of Salem;
Mr. DANA, of Groton, moved that the
Pearce, of Gloucester ; Lawrence, of Grnton; D' secretary be ordered to furnish each of the
Webster, of Boston; Knowles, of Charlestown; members, of the Convention daily during
Russell, of Mendon; Lyman, of North-Hampton; the session with two newspapers such as each
Story, of Salem ; Smith or Hatfield ; Freeman, of member should choose. He observed that
Boston ; Alvord, of Greenfield; Dwight, of Spring- ll it was usual for members of deliberative
field; Hyde, of Lenox; Stowell, of Peru ; Dear-
bodies to be furnished with newspapers. In
born, of Roxbury; Sullivan, of Brookline; Hedge,
of Plymouth; Spooner, of Fairhaven ; Hodges, of the present instance it would tend not only
Taunton; Reed, of Yarmouth ; Sullivan, of Bos- to their own instruction and gratification,
ton; Rantoul, cf Beverly ; Blood, of Sterling; but would enable them to furnish their con-
Ļooke, of Billerica ; Foote, of Southwick ; Nye | stituents at a distance with a full account of
of Sandwich ; Newell, of Attleborough.
4th ResolVE-Messrs. Varnum, of Dracut;
their proceedings here, by transmitting the
Mattoon, of Amherst; Sullivan, of Boston; Dear: journals of the day which contained a regu-
born, of Roxbury ; Bartlett, ef Haverhill; Pick- lar report of their doings. He concluded by
man, of Salem; Spurr, of Charlton; Willis, of offering a resolution.
Pittsfield; Fay,of Cambridge: Howard, of Bridge. Mr. AUSTIN, of Boston, hoped that if
water;
Russell, of Boston ;. Fearing, of Hing- the resolution was adopted there would be
ham ; Doane, of Yarmouth ; Lincolo, of Taun-
an addition made to it, requiring that they
ton ; Abbot, of Weetford.
5th RESOLVE-Messrs. Pickman, of Salem ;
should be read out of the house and not by
Apthorp, of Boston; S.A.Wells, of Boston; Bart-
members in their seats. He said it had
lett, of Newburyport; White, of Salem; Whit. been a pleasant sight to observe the mem-
man, of West-Cambridge: Flint, of Reading : bers of the house attentively engaged in the
Taft, of Uxbridge; Bangs, of Worcester; Law. || business for which they were convened. He
rence, of Leomister ; Hale, of Westhampton ;
should be extremely sorry to see the exain-
Hunt, of Nerthampton; Hamilton, of Palmer;
Smith, of Sunderland; Hill, of West-Stockbridge; ple which had been set departed from by the
- Ellis, of Dedhain ; Richardson, of Hingham ; N.
introduction of the daily journals. He said
M. Davis, of Plymouth ; Mitchell, of Bridgewa. || that the members had not the power of
ter; J. A.Parker', of New-Bedford ; Crocker,of franking to enable thein to send papers to a
Barnstable.
distance free of expense, and instead of be-
6th Resolve-Messrs. Ward, ef Boston; Ban- | ing of any benefit to their constituents, that
Dister, of Newbaryport; Parrot, of Gloucester;
Wade, of Ipswich ; Josiah Little, of Newbury;
they would remain as waste paper on the ta-
Sanger, of Sherbarne; Fisher, of Lancaster;
ble of the members.
Thurbur, of Menden ; Dickenson, of Beleher- Mr. DANA, replied, that the gentleman
town; Morris, of Springfield ; Bassett, of Ash- from Boston living in the capital and always
field'; Dewey, of Sheffield : Draper, of Roxbury; near the sources of information, might have
ussell, of New.Bedford; Draper, of Brookfield.
7th RESOLVE--Messrs, Story, of Salem ; J.
a different feeling froin those who had como
Phillips, of Boston ; Mörlon, ot Dorchester; Cum-.
there from remote parts of the state.' He
mings, of Salem ; L. Lincoln, of Worcester; An-
thought it would be a great convenience to
drews, of Newbury port; Holmes, of Rochester;
be furnished with this means of informing
Willis, of Pittsfield; Austin, of Charlestowa; Le- . their constituents of their course of proceed-
landa of Roxbury Kent, of West-Springfield; ings 'here. On the ground of its interfer-
Shaw o Hostou ; Marston, of Barnstable, Ans. ence with the duties of the house, he thought
tin, of Bostols ; Bartlett, of Medford.
that no rule would be necessary to govern
sth Resolve10891's. Welles, of Boston
Nichols, of South-Reading; Gardner, of Don
the conduct of members. A sense of decon
chester"; Picket, of Otis ; Dean, of Taunton.
rum would be a sufficient restraint. It would
gth RESOLVE--Messrs Quincey, of Boston:
be a convenience to be furnished the means
Fay, of Canabridge ; Saunders, of Nedfield ; which ihe papers afford of reviewing every
Austin, of Charlestown; Kendall, of Leomister; morning the doings of the preceding day..
Tuckerman, of Chelsea; Bailey, of Pelham;
Thomas, of Plymouth ; Hubbard, of Middleton;
The expense would be 'small and he would
Sullivan, of Brookline; Ware, of Boston; Boyls-
suggest that the papers should be delivered
epo, of Princeton ; Smith, of Milton; Saunderson,
to the members at their respective lodgings.
Whalely; Hooper, of Marblehead; Savage, of
Mr. PICKMAN, of Salem was opposed
jeton ; Locke, of Ashby ; Freeman, of Sand- to the resolution because each member might
sh; Noges, of Newbury port; Stebbins, of Gran; supply himself at a 'trifling expense, and ha
le; Adams, of Framingham.
10th RESOLVE-Messi's. D. Webster, and
thought it unnecessary that the house should
Priace, of Boston ; Williams, of Beverly ; Fos-
take any order on the subject.
ter, of Littleton ; Parker, of Charlestown; Sea-
Mr. BLISS, of Springfield said he hoped
ver, of Roxbury ; A. Lincoln, of Worcester ;
the motion would prevail with an amendment,
Lueonard, of Sturbridge; Sampsop, of Harvard that the members should be furnished with
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MÁSSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
2A
but one paper daily instead of two, and that is vail. He said the members might read theme
the motion should extend only to.newspapers
at their lodgings, without any expense..
printed in Boston. He said that it would be Mr. APTHORP of Boston thought it
foonvenient for the members. to refer to the would be proper that the members should.
papers for the proceedings of the House--to iſ be fürnished, with the papers for their own
know who were on committees, &c. That / information.
he thought this a sufficient ground for the Mr. WEBSTER said that it was a stand-
motion, and that no other reason would justi- ing rule of all the legislative bodies that he
fy their incurring this public expense. had any acquaintance with, that no member
.
Mr. DANA consented to the amendment should be employed in reading in his place
proposed by the gentleman from Springfield. either newspapers or any printed paper ex-
Mr. HOYT, of Deerfield proposed that the cept the printed journal of the house or some
order should relate back to the beginning of other paper printed by order of the house,
the session..
and he should consider it the duty of any one
Mr., TILLINGHAST,, or Wrentham, said who saw this rule infringed, to call to order.
he had no objection, to the proposition of the the member who violated it::
gentleman who spoke last, if it could be car- Mr. DANA, was opposed: to the commit-
ied into effect; but he was apprehensive that ment and to a postponement, før, reasons
the printers would not have newspapers on
which he stated. The motion to commit
hand of the past days of the session sufficient was put and decided in the negative.
to furnish the members.
Mr. QUINCY of Boston said he thought
Mr. DWIGHT, of Springfield, moved that that it was an act of comity due from gentle-
the subject in debate be assigned for Monday men residing here who were already provid-
at 11 o'clock.
ed with the daily papers, to furnish others
"Mr. SALTONSTALL, of Salem hoped withi the same privilege. He was in favor of
that it would not be assigned, and that the the resolution. The question was taken and
motion of the gentleman from Groton would decided in the affirmative by a large majo..
not pass in any shape. He said the members frity.
had better be attending to what was going on Mr. SHAW of Boston from the commit..
before them in the house. That every one tee to whom was committed the rule of the
who had frequented, the two houses of our house on the subject of reconsideration of
Legislature must have witnessed the incon questions, reported as a substitute for the
veniences arising from newspapers. being article in the original report, the following.
furnished to the members. It was an un-
rule :
pleasant sight he observed, to see legislators shall be sustained, unless made on the day on which
No motion for the reconsideration of any vote...
reading advertisements aad the news of the
,
such vote passes and a return of the convention be
day, to the neglect the duties they were
then made and entered on the journal, when the
chosen to perform. He said it would look odd
question was not taken by, yeas. and, nays; every
to make a rule: to prohibit members. from such motion shall lie on the table one day before it-
reading newspapers. He thought the mem- skall be taken up for consideration, and shall not
bers might furnish themselves with papers if
be taken up, unless as niany members. are present.
in: convention as were present when : such vote
they wanted thein, and he hoped the motion
passed; and not more than one motion for the re-
would not prevail.
consideration of any one question, shall be sas-
Mr. JOHN WELLES of Boston was sor- tained:
ry to differ from the gentleman from Salem.
Mr. DANA moved to strike out tire clause
He thought that men bers would not be dis- that required the same number of members
posed to violate the rules of propriety. He to be present when the motion for reconsid-
said it was of great importance that the pro-
eration was sustained as were present on
ceedings of theConvention should be publish || passing the original vote. He thought there
ed,to enable the members to give information should be some regulation on the subject of
to their constituents; which he thought could reconsideration, but this was too strict.. He
not be done in a better or more easy mode.
said that if gentlemen would recur, to the
Mr. BOND. of. Boston moved that the subia journal of the convention that framed; tlje
ject be committed, in order that the commit-
constitution of the United States, an: assem-
tee might consider the expediency of substi- bly composed of members of great experi--
tuting for newspapers, the volume which he ence and intelligence, they would find that
understood. was preparing, containing the
in the course of their- proceedings, proposi-
proceedings of the convention. He observ-
tions were adopted and rejected, reinstated
ed that inost of our towns had Social Libra- and again rejected; and that they exercised
ries in which the book might be useſülly de-
the right of reconsideration with the greatest
posited, for the convenience of every man,
freedom. If such men required such an in-
who would not otherwise have the means of dulgence, we should not be able to dispense
information.
with it. He thought the rest of the rule
Mr. KNEELAND of Andover hoped the
would furnish a sufficient guard against
Botion to furnish newspapers would not pre- abuse, without a second retuun of the holesa.
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
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to know if as inany members were present ture differed in their views of its true import,
asthere wereon passing the measure proposed and as the subject had been rècommitted
to be reconsidered.
for the purpose of further consideration and
Mr. SIBLEY, of Sutton, thought it would amendment, the committee had now, report;
he impossible ever to reconsider a motion if ed the same rule in substance, bu& expressed
this rule prevailed." The House was now in terms, which in their apprehension wou
very numerous-gentlemen would be from divest it of all ambiguity and make its im-
inevitable accidents called home, and the port at least clear and intelligible. He pro-
ménibers of the house regularly decreasing. ceeded to state that the rule itself, was found:
It would also be in the power of persons op-ed on the great and incontrovertible - princi
posed to reconsideration to keep out of the ple that in all deliberative assemblies of per-
house, and in that way to gain their object. sons possessing equal rights, the voice of a
He thought that notice only was necessary, najority, solemnly and deliberately, expres:
and that the amendment should prevail. sed, must control that of a minority: If the
Mr. APTHORP, of Boston, liked the or: same number who have carried a measurn,
der as it was reported. He thought the ob- or a larger number is desirous of revising
jection was from not adverting to the nature | their decision, whilst their acts are yet in
of a reconsideration, which was a motion to their power, in consequence of having receive
do away what had been already done. Ited new information or changed their views
was reasonable that when any thing had been they have an unquestionable right so to do O,
done by any number of members, an equal but it has never yet been the practice of the
number should be required to do it away. Legislature of this.Commonwealth, to permit
Mr. SHAW, hoped that the amendment a smaller number to reverse the acts and
proposed by the gentleman from Groton, votes of a larger. The clause therefore,
would not prevail, because it would wholly which the gentleman proposes to strike out,
alter the character and operation of the rule. is designed to secure the operation of these
He was desirous of explaining, shortly the | principles, to guard against surprise, and to
course of reasoning, which had induced the secure to the Convention the means of as.
committee to recommend the rule, as it was certaining in each particular case, that the
reported. They had not submitted this rule, body called upon to reconsider, is at least as
because they thought it to be absolutely the nụnerous, as that which has deliberatcly a-
best and most conformable to sound princi- ! dopted the measure, or passed the vote in
ple, but because it had long been in opera- 1 question. Mr. S. said this amendment had
tion in the most numerous legislative body in | been urged, on the ground that the rule
this Commonwealth; therefore they consid- reported, had a tendency par-
ered it.one, with the use and practice of whiclrrow the range of discussion ;-----this,
most of the inembers of this convention were however he believed was a misrepre-
from experience familiarly conversant. Had || sentation of the design and operation of
they been required now for the first time, to the rule. Its tendency was rather to en-
propose a rule on this subject, they would courage a free discussion of every important
probably have preferred the substitute, offer- question at the most proper time, before a
ed by the gentleman from Springfield, when vote was taken. Besides, take the rules to-
this subject was before the convention upon i gether, as they have already been adopted,
a former occasion, limiting the right of mov- and aniple provision is made for the most full
ing for the reconsideration of any vote, to a and unlimited discussion of every question,
member who had voted with the majority | which any gentleman may think proper to
upon the question proposed to be reconsider- bring under the consideration of the conven-
ed, and which was understood to be confor- tion. Every important question would first
mable to the practice in the House of Re-l be considered in committee. of the whole,
presentatives of the United States. But con- when the most liberal discussion would be
sidering that some advantages in practice || had and the sense of the whole body fully
would be derived from adhering to the rules expressed, and again the measure whatever
which have for many years prevailed in this it might be, would be deliberately revised in
Cominopwealth, the committee in the first convention. Should their deliberations re-
instance had adopted in terms, that of the sult in a resolution proposing alteration in
House of Representatives of our own state the constitution, such resolution must bě read
in preference to a new one, not so well on two several days, at each of which readings,
known.
the whole subject would be open to debate;
But it baving appeared from the short de- by using the term reconsideration therefore,
bate on the subject, which took place when in its liberal and proper sense, every import
this subject was before under discussion that
ant question, must, in the regular and order-
the proposed rule was ambiguous. in its terms, ly course of proceeding which the Conven-
that different presiding officers had put dif- tion had prescribed to itself, be solemnly and
ferent constuctions upon it,and that gentle- deliberately reconsidered. Nothing there-
men of the longest experience in the legisla-fore, could be more groundless than the ap,
as
to
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
25
prehension that this house would be deprived notice lay on the table one day, it was suf.
of the means of considering again every ficient. That nothing but imperious neces-
question that any member" might think prop- sity could justify the absence of any mem.
ber of that body. '
er to submit.
It had been suggested as one reason, why Mr., S. A. WELLS, of Boston, observed,
the rule as it stands would be impracticable, ll that this was tbe most salutary rule which
that 'the ranks of this body would shortly be bad been reported by the Committee. Ho
thinned by the absence of members, he said it would prevent any measure w
whics
trusted however that whatever might be the had been adopted by a mujority from begge
case in ordinary legislative assemblies, no reversed by a minority-that its infine
consideration short of imperious necessity would be particularly telt by the' me out
would induce a gentleman to withdraw the
from the country. It may happen that will
aid of his voice and counsel from this con-
ny members may have retired to their
vention until the very interesting and im- Ilhomes, feeling secure that what bus been
transacted in ihe house with their approba,
portant trust confided to them by their con-
tion, would stand firms, but if this rule is
stituents had been fully and definitively dis-
charged. Believing that the clause in question rejected, they will feel no security. The
measure may be reversed, before they can
was an essential part of the rule, that the rule
return He appreliended thal' the gende:
itself, thus guarded would promote the order-
men from Dracut was mistaken in respect to
ly course of proceedings, and prevent sur-
the antiquity of this rule; that if he would
prise, he hoped it would not be stricken out.
take the trouble to look over the proceed.
Mr. HOLMES, of Rochester, thought the ing's of our old house of Assembly, he would
argument of the gentleman from Sutton was
find a similar regulation in a letter from the
irrefutable. He acknowledged that he felt Assembly in 1768 to Lord Hillsborough
the weight of the observations of the gentle-, He thought this rule would be found to be
man from Boston last up, but he thought that a wise rule, and one from which no incon,
the order might be so amended as to meet venience would be experienced, and he
the views of both gentlemen—by merely re- therefore boped it would be adopted.
quiring that there should be as large a num- Ms. LELAND of Rosary, said that other
ber to vote for reconsideration as voted in instances besides thos: entrowali by the
the majority on the original question, gentleman who precedem magbi be citech
Mr. VARNUM observed, thaille remarks where similar rules had prevailed. The com:
of the gentleman from Sutton, were conclus mittee had taken into the article the very
sive, and be called upon gentlemen to pro- principle that prevailed in the House of
duce a single instance of a rule similar to Representatives of this Commonwealth, to
the one reported, in any legislative assem. confirm which he reud the rule, and a flirmed
bly. He suid it was an absurd rule, and that it required the same number should be
what would be the consequences of it, he present when the vote for reconsideration
asked. Suppose all the members of lhe con- was taken, as were present on the main
vention to be present, & vote passes by & question. There was a little arnbiguity;
majority of a single member; we are not which the committee had removed in their
assured of ihe health of the membersWe report. He thought the rule reasonable.-
must expect accidents--it is probable that There should be a period when debate should
there will be a progressive decrease in the come to an end. He said he would not re-
number of members who will aitend--if one urge the reasons of the gentlenian from
member is called a way, you cannot recon- Boston, but thought he was not heard in all
sider, because there will not be as many parts of the house. He recapitulated the
present as there were when the original course of proceedings in the Housewfirst;
question was taken. Many votes pass upon consideration in the commiltee.--secoad,
lue spur of the occasion--perfection does the same proposition as discussed in ibe
not belong to men, and it always has been house-members may speak twice as
and will be the case, th:t members may matter of right and oftener by. obtaining leave
change their minds; but if this rule passes, -lhe question is tussen on wo separate
there will be no remedy. Suppose an en days-uneach reading any member muy go
deared friend should die--suppose a man over the argument again on the same ques.
should fall dead in the sireet--these would tion. He supporled the rule mire at large
surely be reasonable causes for absence. and opposed striking out.
Can the convention supply vacaricies i-the Mr. WILLARD, of Fitchburg, was in fa-
law makes no provision for this. Suppoge
vor of the amendinent of the niember from
a measure passed which is a favorite with
Groton. He said sufficient notice of a mno-
any single member-iflie nas not honor e.
tion to reconsider would always be given
nough to come into the house, he has it in
his
power to defeat all reconsideration.-
to those who were opposed to a reconsidera-
tion.
The gentleman said the rule was an im-
The gentleman from Boston (Mr.
proper one, and an arbitrary one. Ile said || (S.A.Wells) had expressed great solicitude
atrat if notice were given of a member's in.
for the country members, lest advantage
tension to move # reconsideration, and this
should he taken of their absence, He was
5
26
MASSACHUSETTS. CONVENTION.
from the country, he said, and for himself said that the objection that all the delegates
he felt no such apprehension.'
present at a vole would not be present when
Mr. MARTIN, of Marblehead, thought the motion to reconsider was agitated, WAS
members were making the subject in discus- more specious thin solid. The rule, he
sion of more importance than it deserved. said, did not require the whole number, that
He said they had been appointing numerous
is, the same persons, who voted, to be prega
ent at the motion to reconsider, but only as
committees to consider of the expediency of
different parts of the constitution. He would
many as voted. The rule of the House of
suppose that some amendments were adopt-
Representatives, he apprehended, bad been
generally construed as this one is expressed:
edithat they were very excellent amend-
menns-still, he said, the votes by which they
He hoped that the rule as reported would'
Be adopted.
were adopted, would not be beyond the pow-
Mr. SAVAGE, of Boston, thought that:
er of the house, if the rule reported should be
very many members felt great relief upon
accepted. That some member would only the motion being made by his colleague to
have to move that the rules of the house be
lay the report on the table. He thought
dispensed with and the votes would be open tbat sufficient provision was made in the
to reconsideration. He said he should vote to other rules to guard against surprise. The
strike out.
only objection to omitting the rule, he
Mr. MORTON thought that the part thought, was, that when a motion was made
comprehended in the mution of the gentle. for reconsideration, it might be objected
man from Groton was an objectionable fea- that the motion was out of order. He
ture in the rule reported by the Committee, thought that no difficulty would arise of this
and he hoped the motion to strike it out kind, for if the House perceived tbe reason
would prevail. Every member, he said, for reconsideration, they would readily ac-
had equal rights and no rule should be cede to the motion. If there was no rule,
adopted which should give one member there would be no prohibition of reconsid:
greater rights and privileges than another. If eration.
a member in proper time moves for a re-
Mr. SLOCUM followed, but we were not
considerstian, and takes care to have as fortunate enough to hear his remarks.
many members present as there were when Mr. HUBBARD, of Boston, said if he:
the original vote Was passed, he does all understood the remarks of the gentleman
that can reasonably be required of him, from Boston, he thought it was not necessary
He stands rectus in curia. He has a right to we should have any rule on the subject in
say, I hae made my motion regularly and discussion. He(Mr. Hubbard) thought there.
fairly, and am entitled to have it considered
were many occasions, on whivh it was prop-
who, he asked has power to make any er for the house to have a reconsideration..
rule to prevent its being considered ? If
He thought that the house ought to have
any member should be absent by accident,
this rule be said would deprive him of all
this right-but that they should qualify this:
power of remedying what should appear to
right, and it was his opinion that the rule
him to be an inconsiderate measure.
proposed regulated it, in a proper and con-
said there was no precedent to sanction this
venient modé. He was opposed to having
rule.
the report lie on the table. He thought the.
WEBSTER observed that as there present time as good as any to determine on
was much opposition to the motion, and as the question. There was nothing else of
it was not of great importance to act upon consequence to occupy the convention now
jl immedialely, he would venture to pro-
as the important business for which they
poge to have it laid upon the table.
were assembled had been portioned out to
Mr. DAVA spoke in favor of laying the
committees. He therefore wished that the
report on the lable:
subject might not be deferred.
Mr, FOSTER was opposed to laying the Mr. WEBSTER, withdrew the motion to
report on the table, because, if there was lay the report on the table.
no rule, there could be no reconsidera Mr. BALDIVIN, of Boston, thought that
rion. He thought that if the rule was not the report could be so amended as to remove
adopted, the other rules could not be print.
the objections which had been made to it.
ed... He wished that the rule might be set-
He suggested a modification of it, but did
tled, and that all the rules might be printed.
Mr. BOND said he differed from his hon.
not make any motion to amend.
Mr. DANA, was pleased with the disposi-
orable colleague, (Mr. Webster,) and was
tion sliewn by members not to protract de-
opposed to the report's being laid on the
table. The sanie difficulties and discussion,
bate unreasonably. But he thought there
he said, would recor when the subject came
was one operation of this rule which had es-
up again. He thought that the opposition | caped the observation of the Committee. -
to the rule as reported, are from mistak-
He argued that the convention being form-
ing the meaning of the rule, and from sup-
ed of a single body wanted the checks which
posing, what would not prove to be true,
were furrished in most legislative bodies by
that it would be impossible to obtain a re-
being composed of two houses and subject
Gunsideration of any question under it. He to the megative of the Executive authority
He
Mr.
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
27
and consequently required more ample pro- | the year 1768, by which no question for recon-
vision for securing the right of iepeated de- sideration should be put, unless when there
liberation. He examined in detail what were as many members present, as when the
must be the operation of the rule, and con- original question was taken.
'tended that contingencies, which he stated, Mr: VÄRNUM said that when he spoke
might render the rule extremely injurious in of the rule ireported by the committee as be-
its operation. He replied to the suggestion ing different from any that had prevailed
that the rule would secure the attendance of in any other Legislative body, he referred to
members? He thought that no additional the Legislatures of the several United States
inducements were necessary'to secure attand- and he did not suppose that any gentleman
ance when it was possible, but there would in looking for an authority.on this occasion
be cases in which it would be impossible. would search the records of a British Colony.
A vote might pass in a full house by a six- The question for striking out on Mr. Dana's
gle vote. Members inight change their o- motion was taken and decided in the affirma
pinions, yet-it would be in the power of a tive, 195 to 198.
single member, by retiring to prevent there- Mr. MORTON, moved to amend by strik-
consideration of a favorite measure. It ling out the whole rate and inserting one
would put in it the power of a single member which should allow of reconsideration when
to oppose the will of the whole house. He
as many members voted for it as were in fa-
thought that the convention would not agree vor of the original weasure, provided they
to a rule which might have'so injurious an were a majority of the members voting on the
operation.
queston of reconsideration,-notice to be giv-
Mr. BLISS thought the striking out the en, and one reeonsideration of the same
part proposed would render the rule absurd.Il question only to be allowed.
He was desirous, he said to save time as Mr. WEBSTER thought, that of all the
much as possible, and was in hopes that the various propositions which the occasion had
Convention might soon have two sessions a elicited, that.now before tire Convention was
day. But this rule so altered would lead to a the most extraordinary. It appeared to him to
needless expense of time. There was no- be, in many respects, objectionable. In the
“thing in it to prevent a reconsideration on the first piace, what is meant by requiring as ma-
same day that the vote is passed, and as ma- ny votes to reconsider a motion, as were in
ny reconsiderations as any meinber should favor of the original measure?- Suppose the
move for.' He said that without that part, it questions were on the adoption of an amend-
did not go to the object of the rule. It ought ment.--A very small number for example,
to require that notice of the motion to re- five, might be in favor of it, and all the rest
consider should be given at the time the vote against it. Yet, in this case, by the proposed
passes; otherwise the clause requiring a re- rule, the vote was recessarily to be reconsi-
turn of the house should be struck out as su- dered. The Honorable Gentleman had
perfluous. He was satisfied he said with the drawn his inotion as if afirmative votes only
Tule as amended by the Committee. It had
It had ll could be reconsidered, and has made no pro-
obviated the objection he made to the one ori- || vision at all for the reconsideration of nega-
ginally reported ; tho' he thought the substi- || tive votes. Again, according to this provi-
tute proposed by himself on a preceding day, sion, a motion for reconsideration might be
would have answered equally well.
He made and discussed, for a week, then put to
said that as he was not much conversant with the vote, and altho' carried affirmatively by a
the anodes of proceeding in our legislative majority, have no effect, and be declared a nul-
bodies, he did not know the practical effect | ity, because the majority was not large enough.
of the rule as it at first stood. That now the -Fe begged leave to dissent, entirely, and
ambiguity was removed, and he was satisfied; most widely, from all such modes of proceed-
and he thought substantial reasons had been ing. All rules respecting reconsideration
urged against the alteration proposed. were intended and adopted for the purpose of
Mr. PICKMAN said that if the amend- lascertaining, under what circumstances, and
ment was adopted, a further amendment by whom, a motion for reconsideration might
would be rendered indispensable. Without || be brought forward. But when once brough:
it, it would be put in the power of a member forward, it must, of course, like all other mo-
of a minority, on a vote passed by a large tions, be decided by a majority.-Nobody,
majority in a full house, to give notice of a he believed, ever before heard of a rule, by
motion for reconsideration, and to call it up which a motion to reconsider, when once
at any subsequent time in a thin house, and
a thin house, and regularly inade, was not to be decided like
to carry it in opposition to the sense of a large Kother inotions.
other inotions. It might well be doubled
majority of the house.
whether the Convention could prescribe any
Mr. WELLS read a passage from the such rules; rules by which any thing, more
Massachusetts State Papers, proving the ex- than a majority of members should be requir-
istence, of the rule he had alluded to, in ed for the decision of any question regularly
iba Massachusetts Provincial Assembly, in before it.--Mr. Webster įroceeded to say,
28
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
ܕ
that it was with great unwillingness that he iſ whole house could not do and to bring on
troubled the Convention again on this occa- a second discussion, and a second vote, the
sion, but he would indulge the hope, that af- same day, or the same hour.-All delibera:
ter the failure of so many attempts to qualify li tive bodies establish stages of proceeding ;
the right of moving to reconsider, in any and every ineasure may be debated at each
manner acceptable to the Convention, gen-| stage. This was useful and salutary; and it
tlemen would be niore inclined to adopt the was even useful that these stages should be
usual limitations, the restriction of the right frequent. He hardly cared how frequent.
to some member voting with the majority - If three readings be not enough, let there be
No other qualification was sở simple, or so four, as is the practice in some bodies But
easily understood and none better secured let all the members equally understand how
the right against abuse.—He would présume many readings there are to be, and then all
even to take the sense of the House again on will have an equal opportunity of being pres-
this subject, if the present proposition should ent, and of opposing or supporting--the
be rejected, and renew the motion made the other course leads to great inequality, and
other day by the Honorable member from undue advantage on one side ; because it
Springfield [Mr. Bliss.] a motion which puts it in the power of an individual to choose
went to adopt the rule, in the form he had his owị time and opportunity. Mr. W. said
mentioned.--He confessed, that he disliked he would appeal to gentlemen who had sat
the rule, as reported by the committee in all in assemblies where this right of moving to
its formts. Instead of preyenting surprise, it reconsider was under little or no restraint,
facilitated it. It might easily be shown that whether they had iyot found that in fact it
if any thing unfair were intended, such a rule produced no real and effectual reconsidera-
gave great facility to carry it into effect. tion whateverwhether it is not true, that
For example, it was supposed to be ari ad- measures were suffered to pass along through
vantage to move to reconsider; but such mo- all the regular stages without discussion, and
țion was to bę, limited, in point of time.- never be Gebated, nor in reality considered
Suppose, then, a member, favorable to what at all, till on the motion to reconsider ? If
had been decided, yet apprehending a mo- it were so, then in truth the practice was
tion to reconsider, should make such motion hostile to any real
hostile to any real i’evision or review of its
himself and give notice that he should call it || judgments by the House-Indeed it had beei
Uputo days hence- of course no other mo- said, in the course of this discussion, that the
tion d. ceconsider could be made; yet, at the right to reconsider was useful, because it
expiration of two days, this motion might be tended to save time; inasmuch as gentle-
withdrawn; by the mover, and it would then men would forbear debate through all the
be too late for any other member to inake a regular: stages of a bill, in the hope that a
similar motion.--Again,a mernber, favorable majority. would be found favourable to theit
tomy decision, apprehensive of a vote to re- views, without discussion--and still relying,
tonsider, may presently, make such a motion if this hope failed, in the power of discussing
himself, and immediately, by the same mem- the subject on a motion to reconsider. -Now
bers obtain an inevitable confirmation of a he would ask, what was this, but limiting all
favorite vole, for it could be reconsidered but real and useful discussion or consideration to
once.--These were among the modes, one single stage, and one single time?
iu wbichi all these imagiwy secu- Ivould it not be much better that the reasons
rities against surprise, might be turn- for measures should be assigned when the
ed to the very purposes of surprise. measures were introdticed ; and that opposi-
The practice of reconsidering votes, in a tion, if any were intended, should be made,
Legislative assembly, was of recent origin. il in the regular stages of the proceeding ?-
The general rule has been, and still is, that Gentlemen had spoken on this subject as if
MA proposition can be brought forward di- any limit on the right of moving to recon-
tectly contradicting what has been donc at sider were a restraint upon the freedom of
the same session. Mr. Jefferson calls the speech and debate. He conſessed he should
whole practice an anomalous proceeding ; || have had more confidence in the opinions
and a proceeding tending to produce effects and sentiments of gentlmen in this particolar,
by surprise. It was indeed a practice, by if their vigilance bad bėén ronised by another
which the House put more power into the rules which had been adopted. He alluded
hands of every individual member than it to the role allowing the previous question to
coald, itself, exercise, by the greatest major- be called, at the pleasure of a majority—It
ity. The House, bound itself, by rules, not there were any thing curtailing a just free-
to give a second reading, or take a second dom of debate it was this--as it had some-
important voie, on the same measure, the times been used, it was certainly an instro-
same day. Hence propositions were to be ment of injustice. Yet, not even the hon-
tead on different days, before they passed. Jourable gentleman from Dorchester, who
But hy this practice it was in the power of spoke so ably and with so much animation
any individual member to do that, which the on this occasion, had opposcd this rule. For
!
29
MASSACHUSETTS-CONVENTION.
i
his own part, he presumed it would never be remedied at the next. On the contrary the
executed, in this body—or not except in ex- proceedings of this convention would not
treme cases ; or otherwise he should himself be open to revision, and were to affect
have hoped to see'it stricken out. The pre- not only the present generation but posterity.
vious question was said to have been invent- It was important therefore that every mem-
ber should have the power of moving for a
ed by a man who once resided not far from
reconsideration, and by the rule proposed by
the spot in which he was speaking, Sir Har-
bimself, the vote on the reconsideration
ry Vane. When it was put in practice to si-
would be as solemn as the original one.
lence the whigs in England, not far from
The mover of a reconsideration would be
the period of their revolution, one of them, restricted by the rules requiring as many
Sir Robert Howard, said, it was like the im-
members to be present when he makes his
age of its author, a perpetual disturbance.
motion and in favor of it,a's there were in the
Mr.W. said he should conclude by repeating majority when the vote passed. This cer-
that if the amendment before the house did
tainly was fair. All the members would be
not prevail he should 'move for the adoption notified of his intention--what could be
of the rule, as it was practised in Congress, fairer? He repeated that he was opposed to
and other Legislative bodies, that is to say, one member's having privileges from which
that every motion for reconsideration should others were debarred.
be moved by some one who voted in the ma- Mr. VARNUM said, he felt very happy
jority--this might not be, indeed it was not, that the gentleman from Boston, (Mr. Web.
an absolute and infallible security againt sur- ster) had proposed to substitute the rule
prise and other evil consequences sometimes practised in Congress. He said it was sim,
flowing from the practice.—But it was the ple, easily understood and convenient. That
best security, and was familiar to many gen-
he had bad many years experience of its
operation, and had never heard any mem™
tlemen, and to the practice of many assem-
blies. Having submitted this motion, he
ber of Congress make any objection to the
-should leave it to the Convention to dispose that they had voted in the majority had al-
rule. That the honor of gentlemen stating
of it, as it thought fit ;—not intending to
ways been relied on, and that no inconven.
trouble them with any further observations
ience had resulted from such reliance,
on the subject.
Mr.QUINCY corroborated the statements
The question was taken on Mr. Morton's made by the member from Dracut. He said
amendment, and determined in the nega-he bad himself observed the favorable ope.
tive without a division.
ration of the rule for eight years in Con-
Mr. WEBSTER then moved, by way of gress, without having experienced the least
amendment and in place of the rule recom-
inconvenience, though he was the whole of
mended by the committee, the following
that time in a minoriiy. He expressed his
viz:-
satisfaction at the remarks coming from a
"When a motion has been made and carried, in
gentlemaan of so long experience as a memo
the affirmative or negative, it shall be in order for
ber and presiding officer in the national lega
any member of the majority to move for the recorr-
islature. He said it would be one of the
sideration thereof, on the same or succeeding day." most fortunate circumstances attending this
Mr. MORTON said the gentleman was
convention,if it should be the means of intro
not in order. [Overruled.] He proceeded | ducing this rule. among us. He hoped it
to say that he was opposed to the gentlem
would be adopted in our legislature, where,
man's motion for several reasons. He said on important occasions, advantage was too
the role of Congress was contrary
apt to be taken under the rule now in use.
our habits; that Congress no doubt, had a
Mr. MORTON rose and stated a case.
dopted it wish very good intentions ; Suppose there are four hundred and one
jt might be found convenient in that body.
members present when a vote is passed ;
But in this Commonwealth we had not &-
two hundred and one voting in the majori.
dopted it, and we had felt no inconvenience ty-sixty afterwards come in, whose senti.
from not adopting it. It
one member ments coincide with the minority--if this
could move for a reconsideration, why not
rule prevails, what is to be done? How is
every member? What equity or justice was
the question to be opened ? He repeated
there iił one member's having rights and
that it was very important in this conven-
privileges which all the members had not? tion, that questions should be open to rea
If a motion were a proper one, the members
consideration.
of the minority should have the power to Mr. FOSTER, of Littleton, said he felt
offer it, as well as those of the majority.- very diffident of himself, when he saw &.
This was an invidious distinction. He said round him so many men of talents and expe-
we were yccustomed to the rule of our own rience in public affairs, whose judgment
Legislature. We were restrainech by it, but must be venerable, and whose judgment he
it operated equally on all the members. He did venerate. He proceeded to say, that
said he should not object to the rule of Colle this rule was hrought forward by gentlemen
gress as a rule for the Legislature, where as the only thing which would answer the
the impoịitic acid of one session might be purpose intended. He said it might answer
5
r
10
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
and of the committees be printed for the use
j
very well in Congress, where they have the
power, at a future session, to correct any of the members. Ordered.
inconsiderate measure of a preceding ses- Mr. MARTIN wished to have the rules
sion. But it was not so with this Conven. read. He said he was prevented by the
tion, which can have no future session. It snow storm from being present when they
did not, therefore, follow of course, that a were read before. He said there were a
rule suitable for Congress, or for any legis. hundred others that had not heard them.
lative body, would be applicable to the Cori. Mr. Martin was answered that the rules
vention. He went on to state a case wbich were passed, and nol then before the house
happened in the Legislature ten or twelve -and he had better get them and read them
years ago, and whicb came within his own himself
knowledge., An important measure, he Mr. DANA, chairman of the committee
said, was brought forward and advocated by on elections and returns, made the follow-
one person only. When the question was ing report.
taken, it was determined in the negative by The Committee who'were directed to receive
the vote of the Speaker. A reconsideration and examine the returns of the Delegates to the
was moved tor and advocaled by the same
Convention from the several towns and districts,
person only. The Speaker's vote again de-
and to prepare a roll of the members, have attend-
termined the question in the negative.-
ed to the service assigned them, and ask leave to
report :- That they have examined the copies of
The measure was brought forward, third the records of the votes of all the towns and dis-
time, and carried by about two thirds, and tricts which have elected Delegates to the Con-
has been since very well approved of. But
vention :
this rule will put a stop to all such advanta.
And they find the records to have been duly
ges of revision. He concluded by saying,
made, and fair copies of said records duly attesteds
liat the rule was inapplicable to a body like
have been produced by the respective Delegates-
all of which are in the usual form, except the re-
the Convention, where a thing once done, turn from Plymouth, by which, it appears that the
was done forever.
town-meeting there, was continued by adjourn.
Mr. VARNUM begged pardon of the
ment to the second day.
House for rising so often; the gentleman
The Committee therefore submit the following
from Littleton, he said, had mistaken bis
Resolution :- That all the Delegates from the sev-
eral towns and districts who have elected mem-
object altogether. He asked, how can a bers, and against whose election no remonstranca
gentleman in the minority get a reconsider- has been offered, have been duly elected.
ation, unless some member in the majority Mr. BANGS said he was against the ac-
has changed his opinion ?
ceptance of the report, and moved that the
Question called for.
house should adjourn.
Mr, SALSTONSTALL moved that when
Mr. MARTIN was opposed to the motion.
the house adjourned, it should adjourn un-
He approved of the rule that had prevailed
til Monday, at 11 o'clock.-Carried, 194 10
in the Legislature of this Commonwealth-
157.
He said a thing once done by the Congen-
The House then adjourned.
tion, was done forever; all opportunities of
réconsideration should therefore be allowed.
Some of the members who live in the neigh-
boring towns, might go home on Saturday, MONDAT, Nov. 20.-At 11 o'clock the
and be prevented by a snow stora from re- Convention was called to order by the Pres.
turning on Monday. There were seventy ident, and the Journalof Saturday's proceed.
from Essex. And in the meantime a ques.
ings was read.
tion might be carried, and they would have Mr.SULLIVAN, of Boston, observing that
no remedy. Mr. President, said he, I call he was appointed on two committees, and
this rule a bridle on our tongues. I hope that it would be impossible for him to serve
the motion will not prevail. I hope this on both, requested to be excused from serv:
Convention will not be bound up by the lit. ing on the committee on the fourth resolu.
tle parliamentary rule that prevails in Con- tion. Granted.
gress. It may do very well there. Most of Mr. WELLS of Boston, for the same reason
the members of Congress are lawyers, pro- was excused at his request from serving on
fessional men, men of education; but it is tbe committee on the fifth resolution.
not so with all of us. We koow what's Mr. WEBSTER, for a like reason, and at.
right, and what's wrong : but it is not to be his request was excused from serving on
expected that we can express ourselves so the committee upon the third resolution.
politely; we have not had the education; Mr. SPOONER, of Fairhaven, was excused
out we know when the rights of oar towns from acting on the third resolution, on the
are infringed.
suggestion that he was detained from attend.
Question, question.
ance by sickness; and Mr. Barnard, of Nan.
The question was then taken on Mr. cucket, appointed in his place.
Webster's amendment, and carried in the Mr. DEARBORN, of Roxbury, being alsos.
affirmative-250 to 120.
appointed on three committees, was at his
Mr. BLISS moved that the rules and or- request excused from serving on the fourth.
ders, together with a list of the members Mr. FREEMAN, of Sandwich, for a like
}
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sin
1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
SI
reagon and request, was excused from sery. balloting for five, it appeared three only
ing on the first. Mr. SULLIVAN, of Brook. were elected; that the meeting was'a djourns
line, on the ninth and Mr.WILLIS, of Pitts- ed to the next day, when Nathaniel M. Davis
ield, on the seventh.
and Benjamin Bramhall, were duly elected,
Mr. DANA, observing that there was Mr. DANA resumed and said the report
some variation in the copies of the consti- was predicated upon this return.
That
tution which he had examined, and that the from decisions in our House of Rep-
copy furnished to the members by the or. resentatives, le was of opinion that the
der of the Convention had some interlinea. members returned were entitled to their
tions, with a view of furnishing an authori. seats. The act for calling the convention
ty for determining the correct reading more says that the towns shall assemble on the
ed the following order :
third Monday of October and elect, &çi-
Ordered, That the Secretary of this Com. The Constitution ordains that the election
monwealth be requested to deliver to the of Governor shall be on the first Mondayof:.
President, the parclament on which the April, and that Representatives shall be ea
original constitution was engrossed, and lected in May, ten days at least before the
which was deposited in the archives of last Wednesday of that month. There is a
state, to lie on the table for the use of the distinction between the phraseology of this
members.
act and that of the Constitution. The
Mr. SULLIVAN requested, that the Constitution requires that the elections shali
mover of the order should so amend it, as take place on a certain day or previous to
to procure instead of the original,an attest- a ceriain day. This act provides that the
ed copy of it.' He said the original ought town meeting only shall be on a certain dayi
not to leave the Secretary's office, and if it it does not say that the election shall be on
were brought here it is so large that it could the same day, or on any day in particular,
not be conveniently used,
And he submitted it to the house whether
Mr. PRINCE, of Boston, suggested an a.
the right of adjournment is not implied in
mendment which was accepted by the move
the act, since there is no clause expressly
er, as follows:
taking away the right. He observed that
there was no gremonstrance against the
Ordered, That the Secretary of this Com | election, and no reason offered for holding
monwealth be requested to collate and com-
it invalid, except from what appeared in the
pare the copy of the constitution printed return itself, The election of a Representa-
for the use of the members with the orig. 1 tive to Congress was held at Plymouth on
inal in the Secretary's office, and certify the same day in the forenoon, and after the
that it is correct if so, otherwise to minute
ballot for delegates it appeared that
the variances.
three only instead of five were elected. It
Thus amended the order passed.
was about sun-down when the vote
The report of the Committee on elec-
was ascertained. The question occur-
tions which was read on Saturday was then
red whether they had a right to ad-
taken up and upon a motion that it be ac.
journ. A motion to that effect was made
cepted :-
and carried, and more persons were present
Mr. VÄRNUM, of Dracut, rose and said the next day at the adjourned meeting,
he was unable to say what the practice of than had attended the first day. He said
the House of Representatives of this state there had been no suggestion of fraud or
had recently been on occasions of ihis kind ; | improper conduct, the only reason for the
but he thought there was a great impropris adjournment was want of time. He was in
ety in accepting this report at this time.- favor of the members retaining their seats.
Towns may hereafter come forward and re. He should be sorry to have that ancient
monstrate against the election of members town of the landing of our forefathers deni-
who come here to represent them, but af. ed a representation on an occasion like the
ter this report is accepted, it will be too present, when their error, if any had been
late. This acceptance will confirm the committed, arose only from want of judg.
members in their seats. He said it was the ment. That as there would be no future
custom in the House of Representatives of Convention, there could be no danger from
the United States to have the report lie on the precedent. He concluded by compar- .
the table, to give an opportunity for con. ing the present case tu wbat takes place in
testing the election of members.
courts of justice, where relief is given to
Mr. DANA, thought there was much pro- error when not accompanied by fraud.
priety in the observations of the gentleman Mr. BANGS, of Worcester, stated that he
who spoke last, and that the course point- was one of the committee who dissented
ed out by him was unobjectionable. He from the opinion which they had expressed
wished however' that the return from in their report, as far it respected the Plym.
Plymouth might be read to the House. outh members. He thought they were not
The Secretary read the return, which stat. duly elected, and not entitled to their seats.
ed among other things that the town met The words of the act which provided for
on the third Monday of October last, and the convention, and directed the choice of
yoted to send five delegates. That after delegates, were, that the inhabitants should
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
assemble in town meeting on the 3d Mon, 1 sought for by the House, but proceeded up:
day in October,and should elect one or more OB only upon remonstrance. We should not
delegates. There could be no doubt that the undertake to disfranchise Plymouth. It ap.
intention of the legislature was that the elec. í peared to be the general sense of that town
tion should be hoiden on the 3d Monday of that they should be represented by five del-
October, and on no other day. If they had egates, and that the sitting members return.
not intended to confine the election to a ed were duly elected. He would lay the
single day, they would have so expressed the report on the table and ita remonstrance
it. They would have said they should be were offered against the election of any
elected within a prescribed number of days, Il members, they could be taken up in regu-
A8 was provided by the constitution for the
lar course. But it would be an unprofitable
choice of Representatives in the General fl inquiry to enter into the subject, unless the
Court. The Legislature meant to make a inhabitants represent they are not satisfied.
distinction between this case and that of Mr. SLOCUM wished the gentleman
Representatives, otherwise it would have who moved to lay the report on the table
used similar language. They have said the would give some reasons for it. He did
meetings shall be held on the 3d Monday not hear any. We had had a committee to
and have said nothing about adjonruing. Il make a thorough examination of the sub.
was true the word then was not used in the lject and the committee had not agreed.
act, but he contended the meaning was the What shall we get by laying it on the table :
same as if it had been. He asked what would It would only give to the eagle eyed inhabit.
be the consequence of the contrary construc. ants of Plymouth an opportunity to remon.
rion. If lowa meetings had the power of strate.
adjournment, they might have adjourned, Mr. STORY entirely agreed with the
to any time previous to the meeting of the gentleman from Dracut, on the propriety
convention to this very day. Delegates of laying this Report on the table. It
may yet be chosen, and the convention has seemed to be the proper course.
It would
now tbe power to issue precepts to elect then be regular for any member, by motion
delegates, where vacancies exist, or to sup: or resolution, to take the sense of the Con-
ply those which shall exist. He knew it. vention on the election of the Delegates
might be said that this was an assumption from Plymouth. The reasons against their
of power by the Legislature. But it was election appeared on the return itself.-
necessary that the power should be exer. They were therefore, necessarily before the
cised, and it was proper that the Legislature || House, and he thought it bound to act upon
sbould assume it, and that they should es- the case, with or without, a remonstrance.
tablish rules. If they had not the power to He had an opinion on the merits of the case,
fix the time of election, they had no power which he should express on a proper oC.
to establish any other rule. It was not for casion.
Plymouth to assume rights that no other Mr.SULLIVAN, of Boston, was opppos-
town had, or to adopt another rule. He did ed to laying the Report on the table. He
not agree that it was sufficient that the differed, with reluctance, from the gentle-
members present were elected without men who bad spoken, and who appeared to
fraud, and were fair representatives of a have formed their opinions on ihe course
majority of the inhabitants. Suppose a del. of proceedings in Congress ; a course whicle
egate had been chosen by a majority of he thought not usual in this Commonwealth
paupers. He would by this doctrine be
-Here was no person claiming a seat ad.
entitled to his seat. There were many in- versely to the sitting members--no remon.
stances in which towns were not able to strance from any of the inhabitants of the
complete their election on the day fixed for town ;-and no denial of the right of the
it. But with the exception of Plymouth not town to send the number of delegates who
one had thought of an adjournment. They had taken their seats. The single ques.
had reconsidered the votes by which they tion was, whether the town, under the cir.
had agreed to send a certain number, and cumstances, was authorized to continue a
had agreed to send no more than could be meeting legally assembled, to the next day
chosen on the day fixed by the law. by adjournment ? Nubody corapluins of
He admitted that if any necessity could be fraud, unfairness, or surprise--- Nobody
demonstrated for an adjournment he would doubts that the two gentlemen sit here with
be willing to admit the members to their the full approbation of the town. He thought
seats, but there was no such necessity. It the effect of laying the report on the table
might have been inconvenient; but the might be rather to invite remonstrance and
town might have chosen, there was time e. somplaint, and to give an occasion to busy
nough-ihey adjourned before sunset, think people to interfere. He hoped there!ore,
ing it would be more coovenient to choose the Convention would decide the question
on another day, but they might have com. at once. He thouglit it a question of no
plete the choice on the same evening. difficulty-and was opposed to postponing
Mr.QUINCY rose to move that the re- the decision,
port lie on the table. He tbought the idea Mr.BARTLETT, of Plymouth, was against
of the gentleman from Dracut was à correct laying the report on the table. He said he
one, that questions of this sort should not be would state the facts respecting the election
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
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33
1
at Plymouth. On the third Monday of Oc. deprive their constituents of their equal
tober, in the morning, the towa chose a ri- voice in the convention, it ought not to be
presesentative to Congress. Afterwards the done, unless such a construction of the law
question was taken how many delegaies was absoiulely oecessary. If, on a liberal
they should send to the convention; and it construction, they could not be considered
was determined that they should send five. as fairly chosen, they could not, of course,
They proceeded to ballot ; and ufter the
retain their seats. Ite differed from the
votes were counted, it was declared that gentleman from Worcester, (Mr. Bangs) in
three only were chosen. It was near dark the prem ses, rather than in the conclusion.
when the vote was declared, and if they hari He sbould agree at once, that they must ap-
proceeded to ballot for the other two it pear to be chosen according to the provision
would have been necessary to have had of the act ;- but the question was, what is
lights. This gave rise to a question wheth- that provision, under a just and liberal con.
er it would be legal to go on. Some thoughtstruction ? If there were fraud, on the
not. Another question then
came up
part of the presiding officers, the sitting
whether the meeting could adjourn. Legal members, or any other persons, thai would
advice was taken, which was in favor of the be a different question.No such fraud,
right lo adjourn, and the meeting then voted nor, indeed, any unfairness was pretended.
unanimously to adjourn. The next day the It was admitted that the whole proceeding
meeting was fuller than it had been un Mon. was fair and well intended:So thal the
day. Mr. B said lie had heard no sugges- only question was, were the members, chos-
tion of any general dissatisfaction, and the en, in pursuance of tbe act--giving to the
thought there would not be found more than act a liberal and reasonable construction.
four or five individuals disposed to remun. The language of the act ism" that the In.
strate. He thought there could be no ques. habitants of the towns, &c. shall assemble
tion in the case, except in regard to tie le. on the third Monday in October,at a meeting
gality of the adjournment, and as to this he duly warged, &c. and shall elect Delegates,
felt himself incompetent to decide ; but he &c The question is, when shall they elect?
hoped the decision of the house would be in Not, expressly, then, or on that day. But,
favor of the town of Plymouth's having her as he contended, on that dãy the meeting is
full representation.
to be hoiden, and the Delegates chosen ut
M. DUTTON, of Boston, said he rose to that meeting. It is not necessary, in order
call the attention of the House to the real to supply the elision in the phraseology, to
state of the question. The question was, read the clauke tils--that the inhabitants
whether the report of the committee should s on that duy" elect, &c. It suits as well
lie on the table; he said the case of the gramm:tical arrangement to read it, thus-
Plymouth election was part of the report, they shall, " at that meeting" elect. As the
and might be called up by any member af. words will bear this cusstruction, and as
ter ike report itself was laid on the table, the rights isf the town seem to require it, it
and that after the present question was dig. | ought to be adopted, unless some evil con.
posed af, he should make a motion for that sequence should result from it. He saw no
purpose.
such evil consequence upon the case as
The question was taken for laying the re. stated : there was a full and fair expression
port on the table, and passed in the affirme. of the sense of the town; and we ought to re-
tive.
ceive it, unless preveuted by positive provis.
Mr. Dutton then offered the following lions or clearexpressions of the law. His own
resolution :
opinion was, that if the town assembled on
Resolved, That Nathaniel M. Davis and the right day, and by accidenkor otherwise
Benjamin Bramhall, are duly elected and were prevented from completis gathe elec-
returned as Delegates from the town of tion on thit day, they linki & right to ad.
Plymouth.
journitra the next day. This was analogous
Mr. HOAR, of Concord; regretted, that to other cases. Sheriff's were bound to serve
since the convention was only concerned to process, within certain days-such as to
know th8t there was a real representation take land on execution. The words of the
of the wishes of all the people in the con- several laws governing such cases were not
vention, and was not in # situation to estab. disimilar to those of the act under which we
lista precedents, for ordinary ceses, any ques-
sit. Yet it had often been decided, that if
tion of the legality of an election had arisen. the process were begun wiihin the statute
He did not kaow the gentlemen returned time, it was sufficient, and migiit be continu.
from Plymouth, nor any of their opinions; ed afterwards ill completed. Now, why
bus since no remonstrance had been pre. I should we adopt & svaríower construction,
sented against them, it was fair to presume. on this occasiori, in which the whole people
that they represented the feelings and sen. had so great an interest, than th: courts of
timents of the town. The question was, law hau adoptcu, in a mere question of
whether on a liberal construction of the law, property ? Of all questions, it was one
they were entitled to their seats. If they best eniitled to a liberal construction ---And
were, they ought to hold them; and since on this very subject of elections, he thought
to deprive them of iteir seats would be to there were precedenis in point. By' an a1-
1
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34
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
1
cient English statute it had been ordered entitled to vote, &c. shall have a right to
that the Sheriff should make election of vote in the choice of delegates." Now if the
Knights, &c. “ between the hours of eight power of adjournment is inherent in the
and eleven."-Yet it had always been hol- corporation, unless expressly taken away in
den that if he began the election be this case, the meeting at which these votes
tween these hours, he might continue were given in on the 17th of October, was.
it afterwards, till a choice were made.- the same meeting at which the electors as.
This seemed to be reasonable ; to grow out sembled on the 16th, it being legally kept
of ihe necessity of the case.
If a corpora
open by adjournment; and consequently,
tion could not get through its business on “ at such meeting,” every qualified voter
one day, it ought of common justice to have had a right to vote in the choice of these
a right to adjoum. He would repeat that delegates; which right they could not be
this was not an occasion to take minute ex- legally deprived of.
ceptions to the form of returns. He had This right to adjourn, is not only inher-
been well informed, that in the Convention ent in the corporation, and necessary for the
of 1779-80, there was great liberality on this exercise of the corporate powers of towns,
subject ;-so much so, that no members but is agreeable to all the usages of the
coming up from certain towns, the Con- ll country, both before and after the adoption
vention by its own authority, wrote to of the constitution. For these reasons, the
such towns to send up members. Whether Solicitor General was of opinion, that the
therefore, he regarded it as a matter of election of the two members on the 17th
strict law, or as fit rather to be governed by was strictly legal. But if it were necessary.
liberal precedent, be thought the two gen- to resort to a construction of the statute, the
tlemen from Plymouth entitled to their seats. rules of such construction, by all laws, both
Mr. D. DAVIS, the Solicitor General, aid constitutional and municipal, required that
Delegate from Boston, was in fyyor of the the construction sitould not only be liberal,
resolution. He said the question turns upon but fully in favor of the rights of the party :
the power of the Selectmen to adjourn the and that no rule could be admitted which
meeting for the choice of the delegates--- would justify the convention in giving such
and he stated as a position, that the power a construction of the statute, as would dec.
of towns to adjourn their meetings when prive the members of an important right.
necessary, was inherent in the corporation, Question called for.
in all cases when this power was not ex- Mr. STORY, of Salem, said he perceived
pressly limited or iaken away. He knew of gentlemen were impatient to take the ques-
but one case when the power of adjournment || tion, but he would request their indulgence
of a town meeting, was taken away by a while he made a few remarks only. He
general existing provision--which is the said he was in favor of the resolution. That
case of a general election for state officere.
on the closest and most impartial examina.
The constitution requires that there shall tion of the subject he was convinced that
be a meeting of the inhabitants in the sever. the members returned from Plymouth were
al towns for the choice of Senators and duly elected. The act for calling he con-
Counsellors on the first Monday of April, vention was certainly susceptible of two
annually but it is not expressly required constructions, one of which would exclude
by this part of the constitution that the e- these members from their seats, and the
lection skall be on that day; and even if not other would not exclude them-and both
for another provision, respecting the choice constructions were capable of being easily
of Governor, &c, there was no express pro- defended by men as ingenious as the gen.
vision against a necessary adjournment of a tleman from Worcester, (Mr. Bangs.) Mr.
meeting in that case. But in that part of the S. said, to ascertain the intention of ibe Le.
constitution which relates to the election of gislature, the whole act should be examin.
Governor, it is required that the neeting ed. It was clear from the long practice of
for the election of Governor, &e. shall be on towns in this Commonwealth that they have
the first Monday of April, that is, on the the power to adjourn tbeir meetings unless
day appointed for the election of Senators
where they are expressly restricted. The
and Counsellors, and that the votes for Gov.
power to a iljourn town meetings will not be
ernor and Lieut. Governor shall be given in found in any of our statutes. He had examina'
on that day.
ed them for the express purpose of ascertain.
In the present case there is nothing in the ing the fact. Upon what principle then,
act, under the authority of which the elec- does it depend ? Necessity. It is a necessa-
tion was made, which requires that the votes ry power. The laws include many necessar
shall " be given in” on the third Monday of ry powers which are not expressed In the
October. The second section of the act, re- months of March or April town officers are
quires that the inhabitants shall assemble on required to be chosen. The Selecimen in
that day, and shall elect their delegates ; calling a meeting, make out their warrants
not expressly requiring that the election for a specific day, and yet the towns adjourn
shall positively, and at all events, take place from time to time until all their officers are
on that day.
chosen. And this would be considered :
Further, the statute provides, schat at legitimate exercise of their power by every
&#ch meeting of the inhabitants, every person court of law in the Commonwealth, Rep.
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
$ 5
If a rep.
1
ܪ
A
Þesentatives to the General Court are to be The question was taken on accepting the
chosen ten days previous to the last Wed. resolve, and passed in the affirmative.
nesday in May. What is the practice ? The Mr. DANA, after some remarks on the
towns have no espress power to adjourn, crowded state of the house, and the incon-
and yet in contested cases they adjourn from veniences to which many members were sub:
day to day until the election is completed. jected for want of good seats, moved;
The Legislature did not, in this act, intend That the delegates from the town of
to abridge the powers of towns.
Boston be instructed to inquire if it were
resentative can be chosen at an adjourned not possible to procure for the accommo.
meeting,«a delegate may. Mr. S. then read dation of the convention a more convenient
the last sentence of the second section of place of assembling and to report as soon
the 'act for calling the Convention, which as possible. Passed in the negative.
says the meetings shall be regulated &c. in Mr. L. LINCOLN was excused at his re-
the game manner as those for the choice of quest from serving on the committee upun
representatives, &c. He then asked, is it not the 7th Resolution.
elear to the gentleman from Worcester, that Mr. WALTÉR of Boston, moved & Re-
a delegate may be chosen under the existing solve instructing the committee appointed
laws for the choice of Representatives? Mr. on the 10th Resolution to inquire into the.
$. thought no gentleman would feel so propriety and expediency of altering the con.
strong in his own opinion, as to say that || stitution so that ibe Legislature should have
this construction, maintained for many years power to grant to towns, charters of incor-
respecting adjournments, was not-a sound poration with the usual forms of city go-
one. He said he stood upon the text. Ifvernment. In support of his motion he
then, by a fair construction, the meeting on. stated at some length the proceedings which
ly, and not the choice, was to take place on had been had from time to time in the
the third Monday of October, they were town of Boston with a view of obtaining the
bound by the intention of the Legislature, establishment of such a form of govern.
and the rights of the people, to uphold this ment; and the difficulties that had arisen
return. If it were necessary to step over from the language of the constitution,
the law at all, he should not advocate The motion was carried, yeas 273, and
this motion ; but when they were met to the House adjourned.
advise only, not to do the last act, the most
liberal construction should be given to the
statute if necessary. But it was not neces.
sary. The election at Plymouth. came with-
TUESDAY, Nov.21.-The convention was
in the laws; and they were bound not to
calleel to order at 10 o'clock, and attended
infringe the rights of that venerable and an-
cient and excellent corporation.
prayers offered by the Rev. Mr. Palfreys
Mr. SLOCUM, of Dartmouth wished the Chaplain of the Senate.
The journal of yesterday's proceedings
gentleman would vary his motion so that it
should declare that the gentlemen from having been read, a report from the Secre
Plymouth were entitled to their seats, in- | tary of the Commonwealth, made in pursu-:
stead of saying that they were duly elected.
ance of the order of yesterday was received
He thought they ought to go according to
and read. It stated that he had coinpared
the spirit of the law, and not according to
the copy of the constitution printed and or.
the letter. If they were to go by the letter dered for the use of members with the en-
he was sure it was dead. But by the spirit, grossed copy in the office of the Secretary of
he thought they were entilled to their seats State, and that he had found it incorrect in
The President read the order, and saić the a considerable number of particulars, which
import of it was the same, as of the lan. he stated, and that it was correct in all other
guage he had suggested. Mr. S. gaid he parts.
thought it was more soft and delicate, Mr. VARNUM moved that a number of
and he should give his vote more freely if copies of the Report, sufficient for the use of
the motion was so amended. He had a
members of the convention be printed, which
"great respect for the town of Plymouth, motion was agreed to.
the place where our forefathers first landed,
and he hoped we should not deprive them
Mr. Richardson, of Dedham, was appointa
of their rights. We ought to adopt a liber-
ed on the committee upon the third resolu-
al construction of the law. If that towns had
tion, in the place of Mr. Webster, who was
taken fire while the town meeting were pro.
excised.
ceeding in their election, and had time only 4th, in the place of Mr. Dearborn.
Mr. Hyde, of New Marlborough, on the
to adjourh;should we not on the spirit of the
law confirm their proceedings if they had
Mr. Pike, or Newburyport on the 4th, in
gone on to elect delegates the next day? | the place of Mr. Sullivan.
He thought the house would, and he hopid
Mr. Dutton, of Boston on the 5th, in the
these members would be allowed to hold place of Mr. Wells.
their seats, though he did not mean to say
Mr. Hopkins of Great Barrington, in the
be thought they were duly elected. place of Mr. Willis, of Pittsfield.
1
}
1
36
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
them.
Mr. Gifford, of Westport, in the place of 14 ballots had been given, and that five only of
Mr. Lincoln.
the persons voted for were elected. A mo-
Mr. Dawes of Boston, was appointed on tion was then made to reconsider the vote
the 9th, in the place of Mr. Sullivan, of
Sullivan, of which had passed at the opening of the meet-
Brookline ; but at his request was excuseil
, | ing, so far as respected the sixth delegate..
and Mr. Tilden, of Boston, was appointed in The Selectmen asked for time to consider of
his place.
the motion ; which was denied them. They
Mr. DANA, from the committee on con- then consulted together, and concluded not
tested elections, made the following report. to put the motion. It certainly was not to be
The committee on contested elections to whom wondered at, when the united wisdom and
was committed the remonstrance of Timothy Walk. || learning and talents of this convention had
er and others, inhabitants and electors of Charles-
spent two days upon the puzzling subject of
towa against the Hon. Leonard M. Parker's liold-
ing a seat in this convention, have attended that
reconsideration, that the Selectmen of one
service and ask leave to submit to the convention of our towns should feel themselves at a loss
the following Report.
when such a question came suddenly before
That it satisfactorily appeared to your commit-
tee that the inhabitants of Charlestown-legally qual-
After the gentleman from Groton had fin-
ified to vote at this election duly assembled in town
meeting on the day appointed by law and roted to
ished, Mr. M. PORTER, of Hadley, said
send six members to this convention, it being the
one fact had been omitted by him which he
whole number they were entitled to by law. That should have stated, that when the whole com-
the Seleetmen thereupon duly opened the balloting | mittee. were together, four out of the seven
and stated that the poll would be closed at a quar-
ter past four o'clock P. M.The balloting was
wcre of opinion that the seat of the gentle-
completed and the poll closed at or soon after the
man from Charlestown should be vacated.
time appointed. Oncounting and sorting the votes, Mr: J. PHILLIPS, of Boston, said the
it appeared that the five other members from the facts stated in the report were alone before
town of Charlestown only were elected, and that
the house, and that the fact of the Select-
the said Leonard M. Parker was not elected the
votes baving been given for sending other genile-
men's requiring time to make up their minds
men,
and none haviog had a majority. After which did not appear there. He adverted to the
it was duly moved and seconded that the town so usage in this state in relation to the election
far reconsider their former vote as to send but five of Representatives to the General Court,
members to the convention. Which motion the
Selectmen after consultation declined putting, and
and said the Selectmen were by the act for
thereupon called on the electors to bring in their
calling the Convention, required to regulate
votes for a sixth member. The electors then pro- town meetings for the choice of delegates in
ceeded to ballot, and the Selectmen on counting the same manner as for the choice of Repre-
and sorting the votes found that the said Leonard 1 sentatives, and that the same proceedings were
M. Parker had a majority, and declared him elect-
to be had. How would this case stand then
ed.
Your committee however, are fully satisfied that
if it had been the case of a representative ?
the Selectmenacted from pure motives, and if it was It had been decided by the Judges of nr
their duty to have put the said motion, their declin- Supreme Court that the rightof determining
ing was merely an error of judgment. On consid-
eration of the foregoing facis your committee res-
on the number of Representatives was a cor-
pcctfully submit the following resolution.
porate right of the town. It was on this
SAMUEL DANA. ground that the House of Representatives had
Resolved, That the Hon. Leonard M. Parker,
declared elections of the towns of Boston and
having been duly elected, is entitled to a seat in Roxbury invalid, because the Seléctmen had
this convention, and ought to be confirined in his Fefused to take the question how many Rep-
l'esentatives the town would send. With
Mr. DANA, begged leave to state, in re-
these two concording decisions staring them
lation to the report which had been read, in the face, will the Convention make one
that two of the members of the committee directly contrary? He would give no opinion
were absent when it was agreed upon, and
on thi; question, but he thought the
two were opposed to the report. He said 1 subject deserved much consideration.-
that he was himself in favor of il; he could
The town of Charlestown, he observed, was
never satisfy his mind with the decision which
six or seven miles long. It was presumable
had been made in the House of Representa- that many of the inhabitants had returned to
tives, disfranchising a large town containing their homes. It appeared that a majority of
forty-five thousand inhabitants, [alluding to the voters were opposed to sending the gen-
the Boston election of Representatives in
tleman, who now claims his seat. What
1818] for an error of judgment in the Select-
then was the proper 'course? what was the
men. He proceeded to stare some of the
dictate of good fellowship in such a case ? It
facts relating to the election of delegates from
was the dictate which was followed by Mr.
Charlestown. No fraud was asserted or pre- Walker. He made a motion to reconsider
tended in tlie case. A vote was taken in the
the former vote, so far as concerned a sixth
first place to send six delegates. The bal- delegate. If he had a right to make this mo-
loting then commenced, and upon counting tion, the conduct of the Selectmen ought
and assorting the votes it appeared that 370
not to be sanţi oned by the vote of this con-
seat,
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
37
Fention. The gentleman returned was a number in the present case having been fixed
man of too muoh elevation of mind he was by a vote of the town, it presented on that
too well informed, to suppose that the remarks ground a different principle for the govern-
noir made had reference to bis individual || mėnt of the presiding officer at the meeting:
case--that his case considered by itself, was He referred to the Roxbury case, and con-
to be seitler; their decision was to form a tended that there was no analogy between it
precedent for the guide of Selectmen in all and the present case. He adverted to ano'
future elections of representatives, and he ther principle. The representatives in the
hoped to have heard better arguments than general court are paid by the towns, and this
the good intentions of the Selectinen. fact furnishes the reason why they have a
Mr. LAWRENCE of Gioton, referring | right to settle the number by a vote. This
to the statements which had been made of reason does not apply to the case of dele
the opinions of members of the committee, gates who are paid out of the public ehest.
said he thought it was totally immaterial Referring more particularly to the proceed-
whether the committee had given any opin- | ings in the meeting at Charlestown, the
ion on the question whether he is entitled | first thing which was done when the meeting
to his seat. He was sorry to differ from the was full, was to take the sense of the House
honorable gentleman from Boston whose ex- with regard to the number of delegates they
perience and familiarity with all precedents would send. The result was avote to send
of legislative bodies on questions of this sort, six, after which many inhabitants went away
entitled his opinion to great weight. But he in expectation that such a number would be
thought that no decision that should be made chosen and presuming they should be satis-
here could be drawn into precedent hereafter, || fied with the members who should be chosen,
because the convention was differently or- In this state of things he thought it was not
ganized from any legislative body. He was proper, after many of the inhabitants of the
on the committee of the legislature which town, some of them residing at a distance,
framed the law for calling this convention. had, gone to their homes, that the vote
He said it was not the intention of the coin- should be reconsidered. In the decision of
mittee that the convention should be bound contested elections in the House of Repres
by the precedents in the House of Repre- sentatives the great object has been to prevent
sentatives any farther than related to the fraud and to demand that the proceedings of
form of proceedings. ' In settling the num- the meeting should be open and fair. He
ber and distribution of the delegates to the || asked, would it not be unfair in a meeting,
convention, the lesislature fixed upon the || in which it had been in full meeting voted
principle that towns should be entitled to elect to elect a certain number, for a part of the
as many delegates as they can choose Re- inhabitants after many had retired, because
presentatives in the general court. He con- | they could not get their favorite candidates
tended that the principles which had been elected, to make a motion for reconsidera-
settled in the House of Representatives tion. He thought it was right in the select
ought not to be drawn into precedent on this men to refuse to put such a vote. As there-
occasion. This body was differently organ- | fore the member whose election was now
ized, and they are convened for different ob- contested,was fairly chosen, in pursuance of
jects. It was intended, and it is desirable,
is desirable, the vote of the town, taken at the opening of
that all the interests, and all parts of the the meeting, when the house was full, and as
commonwealth should be as fairly and equal- | it was reasonable in the selectmen to refuse.
ly represented, as possible, and for this ob-
to put a motion for rescinding that vote after
ject that a libéral construction should be a part of the inhabitants had retired to their
given to the principles which govern in cases homes, he hoped that the member returned
of election. He was glad to perceive the li- would be allowed to retain his seat.
berality of the convention, in their decision Mr. DUTTON.: I agree with the gentlem
of yesterday in relation to the members man from Groton, and am in favor of ac-
from Plymouth, and he hoped the same li- | cepting the report.
cepting the report. There are two provis-
beral principles would govern their decision ions in the law, under which we are assem-
in this case. He proceeded to distinguish || bled, relating to this subject
. One is that
the present case from the cases which had “ all the laws now in force, regulating the
been cited as decided in the House of Re- || duty and conduct of town officers, Sheriffs,
presentatives, and first the case of the Boston Magistrates and Electors in the Elections of
members in 1818. The question in that Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Counsel-
case was decided on the principle that the lors and Senators and Representatives, shall,
right of choosing Representatives was a cor- as far as applicable, apply and be in full
porate right; that the corporation had a right || force and operation as to all meetings holde
to determine how many Representatives en, and elections and retorns made under
they would elect and consequently that any this act" &c. &c. The other is, that the
inhabitant had a right to make a motion, for Convention shall be the.“ Judges of the re-
limiting them to a certain nüinber. The turns and elections of their own members'
6
38
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
&c. The first, I apprehend, sir, is merely || even decided wrong, I do not think, that
formal, and provides that the several towns, such an error of judgment ought to preju-
shall act by their usual organs, leaving it to dice che right of the sitting member to his
the Convention to exercise its own juàg-| seat. "In all cases of mistake or error, I am
ment upon their proceedings. The right to persuaded this convention will not adopt
decide in all cases, upon the elections and narrow yules of construction. · If the pro-
returns of its own members, is not only ex- ceedings appear to have been open and fair,
pressly given by the law, to the Convention, || free from management or fraud, they will
but is inherent in it. This right draws with be inclined to decide in favor of privilege.com
it the power of-deciding upon the proceed. In the present case, I am not embarrassed
ings of towns, without reference to the opin- | with any difficulty. No precedent has yet.
ion or judgment of any other body even in a been cited from the practice of the House of
like case.
This Convention is a distinct and Representatives, which is against the right of
independant tribunal ; it neither gives nur the sitting member, and if we were bound
takes precedents. It is not bound by the by the same rules that that body is, he might
judgment of the House of Representatives of still, upon the facts before us, retain his seat.
the state, upon any facts relating to the con- But this Convention, sir, will I trust, exer-
duct of town officers. If therefore a case cise its own powers relative to the elections
could be brought from the journals of the and returns of its own inembers independ-
House of Representatives, resembling this, I ently, as well as equitably, and liberally. In
should not feelobliged to take it as a precedent. | the case of the Plymouth election yesterday,
But if this Convention were thus concluded, || it manifested such a disposition ; and I do
no such case has been produced. The two hope, that the same liberal spirit will prevail,
cases cited by the Honourable Gentleman and that the report of the committee will be
from Boston, stand on very different ground. accepted.
In the Roxbury case, the motion to limit Mr. THOMPSON, of Charlestown, said,
the number, was made, before the balloting that having been present, and having presided
began, and the House of Representatives at the town meeting in Charlestown, he would
rightly decided that the Selectmen were endeavor to state the facts in relation to it, as
bound to put that vote. This was substan- | they were not all contained in the report of
tially the Boston case and was, for the same the committee. At the ppening of the meet-
reasons decided in the same way. But what ing a vote passed unanimously to serd six
are the facts in the case now before the delegates. “After the declaration of the votes,
Convention? The town was duly convened, Mr. Walker made his motion, and at the
and a motion was first made and carried, same time another motion was made to open
that six delegates should be elected to the the poll for the sixth 'delegate. The Select-
Convention. Upon the first ballotting five men thought it not fair to proceed any furth-
only were chosen, and a motion was then er that day and offered to adjourn the meet-
made and seconded, that the former vote to | ing in order that all the voters might have
elect six should be reconsidered, and that notice of the state of the election. This offer
no more than five should be elected.
was negatived, and after consultation, the
The Selectmen refused to put this vote, and Selectmen concluded to open the poll; upon
upon this fact the remonstrance is founded.- which all-clamor ceased. The poll was clos.
I agree with the Houorable Geutleman |ed at 8 o'clock, when it appeared that the
from Boston. that the right in question is a whole number of votes given in avas 408, of
corporate right, but in this case, the corpora- which the sitting member had 218. More
tion had acted as such, before the motion was votes were given in at this balloring than at
made. The town in its corporate capacity. || the former one, when the five delegates were
had a right to deternine the number of del- chosen.
egates it would send to the convention ; and Mr. AUSTIN, of Boston, said that the
it was in the power of any person to make a report was satisfactory to him, but the state-
motion for that purpose ; and his undoubted mentofthegentleman wholast spoke gave him
right to have it put by the Selectmen. Such | additional pleasure. He said the convention
a motion was first made the town acted up- was not to be trampelled by precedents in the
on it, as a corporation, and determined the House of Representatives. There were two
number it would send. That being done, 1 questions for them to decide in this case.--
the corporation was functus officio, and the First, whether the motion to reconsider made
individual corporator's were called upon to in the town meeting was in order; in the
give in their votes. The effect of the motion, next place, whether an error of judgment,
therefore, was to reorganize the corporation for there was no pretence of fraud, in the
for the purpose of votiug again upon a ques. ||Selectmen, should operate to vacate the seat
tion which they had once determined-of of the delegate returned. As to the first
undoing what they had already done. In question, he was of opinion that the motion
this case, I apprehend the Selectinen might was not in order. For what would be the
well doubt; and if in a doubtful case they consequences.? the whole cerporate rigkat
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
39
)
1
must have been open, if it was open in part; if Mr. PHILLIPS rose to reply to the ar-
the meeting could reconsider a part of their guments advanced by gentlemen in favor of
proceedings, there was nothing to prevent the report. It had been affirmed, he said,
their reconsidering the whole. Conse-y that this Convention was not bound by the
quently, a small numbers of the inhabitants | precedents of the House of Representatives,
remaining at the end of the meeting might| nor the House of Representatives by those
reconsider all that had been done and set a- of the Convention. This was true. But he
side the whole election. The house had had thought the deliberate decision of that body,
experience that the subject of reconsidera. || (the H. of R.) on laws which were applicable
tion was one of great difficulty. There was equally to the choice of Representatives and
no evidence before the house that the town of Delegates, were entitled to mueli weight
of Charlestown had any by-law allowing a -and he was not beat down as yet by the
reconsideration in any case, and he appre- remarks of gentlemen opposed to him on
hended that where tliere was no rule of that this subject. Again, it was urged that they
kind, a motion to reconsider would be out of ought to shew liberality--that they ought not
order. The Selectmen had their doubts to disfranchise a town for an error of the
on the subject and wished for delay, but Selectmen. This was begging the question.
were prevented by the impatience of the The town might have voted, had the ques
meeting. On the supposition however, that the tion for reconsideration been taken, not to
motion was in order and that the Se- | send a sixth delegate. If that were in fact.
lectmen were wrong in their decision, as it the wish of the town, then by permitting the
was but an error of judgment, and as the sitting member to retain his seat, thoy were
whole town had expressed a wish to he rep- disfranchising the town. That he could
resented by six delegates, it would be a high-sound this argument with aș. much force as..
handed act for this Convention to disfran- his opponents. It was said too that the in-
chise them. He hoped therefore that the habitants of Charlestown were desirous of
sitting member would be.,allowed to retain sending their whole number, and voted to
his seat.
that'. effect, and then went home not:
Mr. BLAKE, of Boston, said there was so much caring who should be chosen:
much force in the reniark made by the two Was it possible that they were. so indifferent?:
gentlemen from Boston, that this house was
it could not be true. Gentlemen had argued
not bound by precedents in the House of that a motion for reconsideration, was not in.
Representatives ;, it was not however nečes-
order. This was not the case. The cond
sary to resort to this ground. If the law for
duct of these very Selèctmen, was.. contrary.
calling the Convention and those to which to this position.. A vote had passed that the
its provisions refer were examined, it would poll should be closed-how then could it be
be found that the proceedings of the Select- || opened again? Here was a reconsideration.
men; were correct. He defied any, inember
His
opponents were on the horns of a dilem-
to point his finger to a law requiring every
Either the Selectmen were bound to
motion to be put which is made in town put the motion to reconsider, and then the
meeting. There had been to be sure, much
refusal was wrong, or they should have.
liberality in towns. in respect to reconsidera- refused to open the poll, a second tirne;.
tion-more-perhaps than there, ought to be ; and then they were wrong. Mr. Phillips
but the vote first passed in this case was of thought that gentlemen did not attack
such, a, nature that it was.. incompetent sufficient importance to this.ease. The de-
to the town to reconsider it, and as thecision of the convention indeed would not be..
gentleman from Boston reinarked they a precedent binding on the House of Repre-
inight as well have moved to reverse sentatives, but coming from an assembly of
the whole proceedings of the meeting. so much learning and talents, it would un-
If the convention however, is bound by the doubtedly lrave great weight in giving a cont
decisions in the House of Representatives, struction to the laws of elections. He con-
unless. better precedents can be produced cluded by saying it was his opinion, that the.
than the Boston and Roxbury cases, they sitting member had no right to his seat, and
were bound to confirm this election; but e-
that the town of Charlestown would be dis-.
ven if this admitted of any doubt he felt as- | franchised, if he were allowed to retain it.
sured from the liberality shewn yesterday,
Mr. L. LINCOLN of Worcester, said
that the sitting member would be confirmed
the town of Charlestown. had already settled:
ip his seat.
the question now before tlie House. That.
Question called for.
supposing the 'motion to reconsider were in
order, it was waved by the remonstrants pro-
Mr. AUSTIN, of Charlestown, said that ceeding to vote after the reopening of the
as there was but little opposition to the re-
port, after so inany arguments in favor of ac-
poll. Supposing Mr. Walker's candidate
had been elected. · Could he then have re...
cepting it, he should consider it indecorous inonstrated because his motion was not put?
en bin to rise, except to call for the question. | Mr. L. apprehended that his putting in a vote,
má.
..
}
40
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
Thomas
į
1
to use a law térm, would have been an es- WEDNESDAY, Nov. 22. The house wat
toppel.
called to order at 10 o'clock and attended
Mr. THOMPSON of Charlestown,said the prayers made by the Rev. Mir. Jenks, Chapa
gentleman had misunderstood him; he had lain of the House of Representatives.
not said that the remonstrants voted.
The journal of yesterday was then read.
Mr. LINCOLN, replied that he under- Mr. Paige, of Hardwicke, was excused
stood him correctly at first, and said that it from serving on the conmittee of accounts
was incumbent on the remonstrants to have and Mr. Bugbee of Wrentham appointed in
shewn that they withdrew from the meeting || his place.
without voting.
Mr. E. MUDGE, of Lynn offered the fol-
Mr. DANA, said it was due to himself, in lowing resolution, which was adopted.
answer to the remarks of the gentleman from Resolved, That the fourth Committee to whom
Hadley (Mr. W. Porter) which imported an
was referred so much of the Constitution as is con;
insinuation, not intended he presumed, of un- tained in the
first section of the second chapter of
fairness in the representation, he (Mr. D.) | Militia, &c. be directed to take jato consideration
had made, respecting the sentiments of the the propriety and expediency of making any, and
committee of elections. He knew that at a if any, what alterations and amendments therein,
meeting of the committee, four gentlemen || ious scruples about bearing arms.
so as to give relief to such persons as have relig.
had expressed an opinion that the seat of
the gentleman from Charlestown ought to be following report :
Mr. QUINCY, of Boston, presented the
vacated. But nothing was then determined
upon, and it was intended there should be a-
The Committee to whom were referred so much
of the Constitution of this' Commonwealth as is
nother meeting of the committee to agree contained in the Fifth Chapter of the second part,
upon a report ; another meeting was held and respects the University of Cambridge and the
accordingly, at which the facts were as he encouragement of literature, and who were di-
had before stated.
rected to take into consideration the expediency of
The question was then taken, whether | making
any, and if any, what alterations or amend-
ment's therein ;-and who were also directed, by a
Mr, Parker should retain his seat, and decid- resolution passed on the 21st instant, to take into
ed in the affirmative.
consideration the expediency ci providing, by way
Mr. HUBBARD of Boston, moved that of amendinent to the Constitution, for the creation
the committee on the 9th resolution, who
of a permanent fund, for the support of public
schools, by appropriating for that object the lands
have in charge the article relating to Har-
owned by the Commonwealth within the State of
vard University, and the encouragement of Maine, and the
proceeds thereof ;-having attend-
learning, be instructed to inquire into the ex- ed to the respective subjects referred to then, ask
pediency of providing by an amendment of leave to report the following resolutions for the
consideration and adoption of the Convention.
the constitution, for appropriating the lands
By order of the Committee.
in the state of Maine belonging to the Com-
JOSIAH QUINCY, Chairman.
monwealth, and the proceeds of the sales of
Resolr:ed, That it is inexpedient to make any al,
the same to the establishment of a perma- | teration or amendment whatsoever, in the Fifth
nent fund fôr the support of public schools. Chapter of the second part of the Constitution of
The resolution was adopted.
this Commonwealth.
Mr. HUBBARD, with a view of preventing
Resolved, That it is inexpedient to provide by
way of amendment in the Constitution of this con-
unnecessary delay, moved that the chairmen
monwealth for the creation of a permanent fund for
of the several committees on the different
the support of publie schools, hy appropriating for.
parts of the constitution be instructed to that object the lands owned by this Commonwealth
have their reports printed, before they are
within the State of Maine, and the proceeds there-
of.
submitted to the House.
Mr. QUINCY opposed the motion. He following resolution, which was adopted.
Mr. BANGS, of Worcester, offered the
Baid it was an unusual and irregular course of
Resolved, That the Committee on so much of the
proceeding.
Constitution as is contained in the first seciion of the
It was passed in the negative.
second chapter of the second part, and respects the
Mr. DRAPER of Spencer, moved that a
Governor, Militia, &c. be instructed to take into
consideration the expediency of so amending the
committee be appointed to consider and
tenth article of said second chapter, as that in future
report what compensatinn ought to be inade
the captains and subalterns of the militia, shall be e-
to the secretary, inessenger, and other of- lected by the written votes of the train band and
ficers of the Convention, and to receive and alarm list of their respective companies, without
report on the accounts for printing, station regard to age.
ary, and her incidental expenses of this
Mr. DANĄ, of Groton, presented the folo
convention,
lowing report.
The motion was agreed to, and Msers
The Conimittee of the Convention who were ap-
Draper of Spencer, Valentine of Hopkin. U pointed to take into consideration the propriety
ton, Paige of Hardwiek, Farwell of Cam-
and expediency of making any, and if any, what al-
terations or amendments, in that part of the con,
bridge, and Walter of'Boston were appointe stitution which is contained in the first' section of
ed,
the first chapter of the second part ihereof; and
After which the House adj:urned. l'espects the General Court,
1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
Have at several times had the said section under have unanimously agreed to offer only the follow-
deliberate consideration, and having given to the ing resolutions for the adoption by the convention,
subject all the attention its importance seemed to Which are submitted for the.committee.
'merit, they ask leave to report: That a Legisla-
SAMUEL DANA, Chairman:
tive department fornied by two branches--a Sen- Resolved, that the constitution ought to be alter-
ate, and House of Representatives, each having a ed so as to change the time at which the legis-
negative upon the other is the most congenial to lative body shall assemble' every year, from the
the interests, habits, and mạnners of this people, | last Wednesday of, May to the first Wednesday of
as well as most conformable to approved axioms | January.
of policy, and that any alteration in the formation Resolved, That the constitution ought tahe amerd-
of this department is wholly unnecessary, and ed so as to render more certain the time in which
would be highly inexpedient.
the governor shall return any bill or resolve to
That the transfer of many of the principal sub- which he may refuse his approbation, by adding to
jects of legislation contemplaied in the constitution, the second article of the first section, these words
to the Congress of the United States since the "unless the General Court by their adjournmeot
adoptiou of the federal constitution, and the sepa- shall prevent its return, in which case it shall not
ration of that portion of the Commonwealth known be a law."
as the District of Maine, and the election of it into
On motion of Mr. ABBOT, of Westford,
a a new state, have so far decreased the objects of
it was oydered that when the house adjourn-
mittee) only one session of the Legislature willed, it should adjourn to Friday next at 11
hereafter be uecessary, unless upon some great o'clock A. M.
emergency, or unusual occurrence; and in order
On motion of Mr. D. "WEBSTER, of
that two sessions may not be necessary, a different
and more convenient time ought to be fixed for Boston, the reports presented by Messrs.
the meeting of the Legislature, and settling the Quincy and Dana, were committed to: a
elections by the General Court, than the one which coinmittee of the whole convention and
is prescribed by the constitution,
made the order of the day for Friday next at
That artiele which prescribes the time in which 11 o'clock A. M.
any bill or resolve of the Senate or House of Rep-
resentatives, shall be returned when the governor
The reports were in the niean time order:
shall withhold his approbation, has given rise to
ed to be printed for the use of the members.
soine doubts, which ought to be removed by a The house then adjourned.
more explicit phraseology.
Your committee have reviewed the powers which
the people conferred upon their Legislatnre when
they adopted the constitution, and find that for a
series of forty years, the General Court have an- FRIDAY, Nov. 24. The Convention came to
nually been employed in redressing grievances, a-
order at 11 o'clock, and ailended prayers, offered
mending and strengthening the laws, and in enact-
by the Rev. Mr Palfrey.
ing new ones, as the common good required, and
The journal of Wednesday being read, Mr
that during this long period uo defect of power has
WELLES, froin the committee to whom was reler-
been discovered, by which the representatives of
red the consideration of so much of the constitu-
the people have been restrained from making all
tion as is contained in the 4th Chapter and second
such regulations as are calculated to promote the
part, respecting Delegates to Congress made the
public safety and happiness, nor has this departs following report :-
ment been found to possess any excess of power,
"The commillee to whon ras relcrred "so much
which requires farther restriction, nor have this
of the Constitution of this Conmonwealth as is
committee been able to discern that any aticinpt
contained in the fourth Chapter of the second part
at a more perfect enumeration or precise defini-
respecting Delegates to Congress--and she pre-
tion of the powers of the Legislaturc, can hc
he use-
priety and expediency of making any alterations,
fully made, and that it is not expedient to make any
and amendments therein,"
alteration in the third and fourth articles of this
Report; tbat hy recurrence to dates and facts it
section,
will appear; that when the Constitution di llassa:
Revenue, being essential to the preservation
chusetts was adopted in one thousand seren hun-
and maintenance of all governments, a wise re-
dred and eighty, it becamie à duty in the Convent.
public will take care that the necessary contribu-
tion then assembled to provide for the choice of
tions, should always be drawn from the people in
Delegates of thie Coninionwealth in the Congress
a manner the most fair and equal, which their si-
of the United States agrocably to the system of
tuation and circumstances will permit. The re-
confederation then subsisting.
gulations prescribcd in the powers given to the
For which reason it was in this fourth Chaptea
General Court for this object, were in ose in the
provided. That the Delegates should be chosen
late province of Massachusetts Bay, and were
in the month of June annually, by a joini ballot of
practiced upon, before the formation of the pre-
the Senate and House of Representatives.' Their
sunt constitution. Since that period many states
inode of conimission, ot' recal, and of a new choice
have formed constitutions-new republics have
were all with propriety therefore in this article.
sprung, up, the skill and ingenuity of financiers
provided for.
have often been put in requisitiqu to devise modes
But the Constitution of the United States having
of drawing contributions from citizens and sub-
since vechi adopied by the people, and it liaving
jects. Your committee have compared the pro-
beconic the supreme law of the land, tius article
visions of our constitutio! with sucir others as
has been thereby virtually supersexlent or repeale,
their opportunities have enabled them to, and are
and has not since had any effect in the Constit..
of opinion that it will not be expedient for the
tion of this Commonwealth.
pcople of Massachusetts to exchange their system,
Under these circumstances your committee con-
which has been sanctioned by such long experi-
sider that the said fourth Chapter of the secondi
eoce, for
any other mode.
part as respects Delegates to Congress is inappli-
After a careful examination and an aitentive able to the existing condition of the state of Mas-
perusal of that portion of the constitution which
sachusetts, as well as to that of the Constitution of
This committee has been charged to risiew, they tle United Stales. The committee therebre roc-
1
NIASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
ommend the adoption of the following resolution : citizens of the United States but foreigner
Rubbed, That the fourth Chapter of the second
have a deep interest, and that they ought to
part of the Constitution of this Commonwealth
receive their appointment from the Supreme
having become inapplicable to the existing condi-
tion of the state of Massachusetts ought to be ex-
Executive, or Legislative power of the Com-
punged therefrom.
monwealth. And, after due liberation upon
all wlich is submitted. Per order of the Com- this subject, your committee are of opinion
mittee,
JOHNWELLES, Chairman." that the election of Notaries Public, by the
On motion of Mr. Welles, the report was refer-
two branches of the Legislature, as provided
red to the committee of the whole and made the
order of the day for tomorrow at 10 o'clock. by the section aforesaid, is attended with
Mr. AUSTIN, of Charlestown, submitted the much expense, and unnecessary delay of leg-
following resolution which being read from the islative business, and cannot be executed, as
chair was adopted.
well, by that department of the government,
That the committee under the 3d resolution who
have under consideration the part of the constitu- | as by the Supreme Executive. Your com-
tion relating to the Senate and House of Repre- mittee therefore report the following Resolve.
sentatives, be instructed to consider the expedien-
ARTEMAS WARD, Chairman.
sy of so altering the constitution as to provide that
Resolved. That it is expedient to alter and amend
the Governor and Lieut. Governor, Senators, Rep-
the Constitution ofthis Conmonwealth, by striking
resentatives, and Flectors of President and Vice
outtle words“ Notaries Public,and Naval Officers
· President and Representatives in Congress on the
in the first article of the fourth section, of the sec-
years when they are to be chosen, and town and
ond Chapter, of the second part.
county officers, be all chosen on the first Monday
On motion of Mr. QUINCY, the House resolved
in April, or on the day of to begin with
itself into a committee of the whole on the report
town officers, and to proceed with the others in
of the committee on that part of the Constitution
order:
relating to the University of Cambridge and the
Mr. WARD, of Boston, from the committee on
encouragement of literature, submitted on Wed-.
that part of the constitution embraced in the sixthi.
resolution made the following report.
nesday, and made the order of this day, the Hon.
Mr. VÁRNUM, of Dracut, in the chair. The re-
Commonwealth of Massachusetts, port being read, on inotion of Mr. Quincy, the
first resolution offered by the committee was taken"
IN CONVENTION, Nov. 24, 1820. ,
into consideration, viz :-
The Committee to whom was cominitted Resolved, That it is inexpedient to make any alter-
by the sixth resolution passed in this con- ation or amendment whatsoever in the fifth Chap-
vention, so much of the Constitution of this tex of the second part of the Constitution of this
Commonwealth as is contained in the fourth
Commonwealth.
Mr. QUINCY said that on general parliamentary:
section of the second Chapter of the second principles it would be proper for him as chairman
part, and relates to the Secretary Treasurer of the committee which reported the resolutions, to
and Receiver General, and the Commissary go into a general consideration of the reasons which
General, Notaries Public, and Naval Officers, induced them to make the report, but as they did
with directions to take into consideration the
not propose to make any alteration of their part of
the constitution the provisions of which were well
propriety and expediency of making any, and understood, he should refrain from making any ob-
if any what-alterations therein, have attended servations in support of this resolution, unless he
to the duty assigned them, and respectfully should be called upon to make some explanation,
ask leave to report,
or the adoption of it ſhould be opposed. Consider-
ing that the encouragement of literature as already
That, notrithstanding they are very strong. amply provided for in the constitution, and consid-
Jy impressed that no part of the form of govering that the inexampled prosperity of Harvard
erminent under which we have lived so hap- College furnished the most satisfactory proof that
pily for furty years, anil enjoyed all the oles- no provision in relation to that institution was ne-
sings ofcivil aviu religions liberty and freedom, he hoped would be be followed in other cases, of a
cessary, he was desirous to give an example, which
and which has received a practical and judic- disposition to indulge in as little debate as possi-
ial constraction, and is now well understood, ble, and he waved the right of saying any thing in
ought to be altered for light reasons, yet, in- support of the resolution.
asmuch as the jurisdiction over inpost and
Mr. RICHARDSON, of Hingham-Mr. Chair-
21an,
I rise to offer my reasons for not accepting the
tonnage duries, by the constitution of the
report of the Comınittee now laid on your table,which
United States, is transferred to the govern-proposes no alteration oramendment as respects the
ment of the United States, and this Common-i University at Cambridge, and the encouragement of
reallis as an individual state of the Uuion, i Literature, &c. Sir, I would not derogate from the
seases to have any jurisdiction over imposts, !respect due to the Committee who have thus report-
1
export and tonnage duties, excepting the and obligations to my constituents, if I should vote
quali ed une mentioned in the constitution
to accept this Report, as it relates to the 3d Art., of
of ihe United States, your committee are the 1st Sec. of the 5th Glap, where it is declared
of opinion that the provision for the election
that the Governor, Lieut. Governor, Counsellors.
of a Naval Officer in the section committed
and Senators of this Commonwealth, with the Pre-
sident of Harvard College, together with the
to them is wholly superfluous and ought to Ministers of the Congregational Churches in the
be expunged.
towäs of Cambridge, &c. shall be, and hereby are,.
In relacicn to the choice of Notaries Pub- yested with all thic powers and authority belonging,
lic, pour connnillee are aware iliat Useir office
or in any way appertaining, to the Overseers of Has-
vard College. Sir, this Constitution, by this pro-
is an important one; one in the faithful arid i vision, bestows exclusive honors and privileges up-
impartial execution of which, not only the on Ministery of Congregational Charches, which
1
V
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
:
provision in my opinion, is directly repugnant to that stitution, vesting a particular élass of christians with
clause in the Declaration of Rights, which declares, preference in honors and privileges, is contrary to
that no subordination of any one sect or or denomi- the general principles and spirit of a free govern-
nation to another, shall ever be established by law." ment. The principle in which such provision is es
By the provision cited, all other denominations ex- tablished, I am constrained not only as a christian,
eept Congregationalists, are excluded from a very but as a civilian, to disapprove, because it not only
honorable public trust. It is not simply from a trust tends to perpetuate jealousy between different de
reposed by the
University, but from a high truşt re- nominations in religion, but also to produce, ulti-
posed by this Commonwealth. Sir, what reason, I mately, the evils of civil discord. Indeed were I
would ask, can gentlemen give for this preference, an enemy to the Congregational denomination, I
granted to Ministers of one denomination. I, sir, could scarcely devise, what I should consider a
profess a strong attachment to the Congregational more effectual measure ultimately to bring it into
denomination. I am well satisfied with the mode of
disrepute. I am aware that it may be said that the
worship, and the discipline of this order of chris- board of Overseers does not remain exactly as fixed
tiang. But this, in my view, is no reason, why I by the Constitution. In 1810, the Legislature pas-
should be satisfied that our Constitution of goveru- sed an act providing that instead of the Congrega-
ment should draw lines of invidious distinction be- tional Ministers of the several towns mentioned in
tween the different denominations of christians. the Constitution, fifteen Ministers of Congregation
This provision appears to me to place all the other al churches and fifteen laymen should be elected,
denominations of christians in a degree of subordina and forever thereafter constitute the Board
Sion to one, as if all others were disqualified for the
of Overseers. It was further provided, that
high trust.' What are the inferences naturally fol- the Overseers should elect this new Board. The
lowing such provision ? That this state from the new Board are empowered to supply all vacancies.
first institution of this government and (as a prová If this act was constitutional, here is a standing
ince) long before, has with liberal munificence fos- Board provided, for which, should the Senate and
tered Harvard University, for the encouragement Council be reduced in numbers, as they probably
of arts and sciences, and all good literature, (as ex- will, may constitute a majority in the Board against
pressed by the Constitution) tending to the honor of the votes of the members on the part of the State.
God, the advantage of the christian, religion, and So that in fact, the act may place the University aa
the great benefit of this and the other United States bove the control of the State government. Thus
but entrusted, so far as depending on the care of live shall have a powerful institution, built up by the
the Ministers of religion to one denomination only. State, and independent of the State. It will also
Does not the inference follow, from the exclusive appear, that among the Ministers created meinbers
words, or rather from the implied and actual exclu- of the Board, by this act, if I mistake not, not one.
sion, that Ministers of other depominations are in who is not a Congregationalist is to be found. It,
the view of the State, unworthy to be trusted with sir, the Constitution contains a clause that can cu-
the care of an institution on which the honor of thorize a Legislature to place the University out of
God, and the advantage of christian religion de- the power and control of the Commonwealth, is it
pend?" It appears that all other denominations are not expedient that such provision be stricken out ?ppen
taxed with large appropriations to support the char- Placing powerful institutions, even partly the prop-
acter and dignity of an institution, which, as the erty of the State, out of the control of the State, is
Constitution now stands, is a sort of holy of holies, certainly the exercise of a prerogative that ought to
which even the clergy of other denominations are be solemnly prohibited by the Constitution. If this
not permitted to approach only.in subordination.-
prerogative was deemed to be authorized by the 3d
Are there not respectable clergymen of other de- Article of the Ist Section of the 5th Chapter, (Sée
nominations in the several towns mentioned (ad- Constitution.) I humbly hope the Convention will
mitting that the Board of Overseers must be liinited not permit that part to pass unaltered. Sir, I hum-
to these towns) who might be safely permitted 10 bly liope, that this Convention will never sanction
share in the management of that University ? In any authority or precedent in the Constitution of
these several towns there are Episcopalians, Bap- government to be submitted to the people, that will
tists, Methodists, Universalists, and perhaps other indicate an undue partiality toward any sect of
denominations, who have formed societies of high. || christians. If the Constitution is again laid before
reputation, possessing great numbers and wealth, the peoplo, unaltered, I an persuaded that they will
who have long contributed in the same proportion not manifest that indifference about it, which
that others have done, to erect the numerous su- seems to have been implied by the small numbers
perb buildings, to endow liberally the many profes- who voted to call this convention. I trust that this
sorships, or at least to aid them, and in various sentiment will be found to prevail in this Conven-
ways to dignify this renowned institution. But tion, that it is vitterly incompatible with all the views
these denominations are all excluded from the of sound and liberal policy, in a free government, to
least participation, in that department of trust as- give preference of honor or advantage to any de-
signed to the Ministers of religion. If, sir, my nomination in religion, unless it is intended to pre-
views of this subject are erroneous, I hope to be pare the way for an amalgamation of church and
convinced by fair arguinents that they are so. But state. I hope, sir, that the Constitution, after re-
cvery feature of a free government that tends to vision, will meet the views of the several denomina.-
cherish and perpetuate a spirit of intolerance a- tions of christians, and all classes of the people, es
mong different denominations of christiaus, is in- the perfect cquality of the reuped corn in Laconia
consistent, in my view, with liberty, both civil and met the view of Lycurgus. Passing by, turning to
religious. I am constrained to view this policy of pre- those around him, he said, smiling, “ Docs not La-
ferenée and exclusion as verging too much towards a conia look like the possession of brothers, who liave
national establishment of religion,and who has been just been dividing their inheritance among then ?"
conversant in hïstory, and does not admit that religi- Mr. QUINCY said that the views whick tiad
ous establishments on narrow.principles, maintaincu been taken by the Rex. gentleman who had just
by civil power and authority, have not proved instru- spoken did not escape the atienion of the cou:-
ments of great calamity ? Sir, I oppose the provis- mittee. It was observed, and they regreries that
ion of the Constitution on another ground. This this exclusive feature exisied in the constirurior.
partiality toward Congregational tenets, in my view, He felt as fully as that gentleman could the avia
is to render this denomination a spoiled child of the vantage which would result to the University at
state. I would, however, rely principally on this Cambridge from calling 131 the aid of other deron -
ground'of arguneut, that any provision in the Con-
inations to participate in the govercaicnt.
+
1
1
MASSACHUSËTTS CONVENTION:
, ;
thought that his general principles were correct hundred and sixty thousand dollars to our colleges ,
and that on a view of the whole subjcct, reasons and this at a time when the state was obliged to bor-
would be suggested which would satisfy that gen- row money to pay the representatives. He thought
tleman and the convention that the resolution must the sum ought to be limited, beyond which the le-
be adopted. The gentleman's argument proceeded gislature should not go He found fault too, with
upon the principle that the constitution made some
the yeas and nays being kept back, so that the peo-
alteration in the
charter of Harvard College: . But ple could not know how their representatives voted
it was not so.' There was no grant or gift of any on such questions. Formerly thirty-one members
thing: The great men who formed the constitu- of the House of Representatives in favor of calling
tion of 1780; knew how sacred pre-existing char- the yeas.and nays were sufficient, but now one
tered rights were: Mr. Q. referred to thc article third of the members present were required.
from which it had been supposed that that con- The chairman directed the gentleman to reduce
vention altered the charter of Harvard College, his motion to writing;
and contended that it was not so: So far, from ex- ..Mr. QUINCY said that while the gentleman was
ercising a power of altering the charter of 1642, | reducing liis motion to writing he would remark
they expressly recognize the existence of the char:
that the other subjeot of this chapter of the Consti-
ter and provide for the exercise of powers under tution, the encouragement of literature, was taken
it. There was a necessity for making some provis- | into consideration by the committee. But they
ion for the failure of certain official persons under found that object as amply provided for as could
the colonial and provincial charters of government,
. be wished. The duty of the Legislature to afford
The charter of 1642, constituted the governor,dep- encouragement to learning and the liberal arts, was
uty governor and magistrates of the colony, with clearly and forcibly expressed, and they had occa-
the president of the college and a certain number sion to admire the wonderful comprehension and
of the clergy, the board of overseers. In conse- forecast of the mind which had dictated this article
quence of the revolution and of the establishment He should say more; were it not for the presence of
of the present constitution, there was no deputy | the gentleman [Mr. Adams] by whom this article
governor; and the number of magistrates was so ivas drafted:
far increased that it was impossible to determine Mr. BALDWIN, of Boston, said he wished to be
who were properly their proper successots. In informed whether ministers of any particular de-
this state of things there was a necessity that it nomination were named in the original charter of
should be declared who should take the place of the College. There had been a change in the gor-
the persons so designated. If it líad not been for ernment of the University some years since, in
this necessity they would have Jeſt that char- which the same idea was kept up. He was not in-
ter as all charter's ought to be leſt, untouched. dued to speak on his own account or on account of
He read a passage from the constitution, to show those of his own religious sentiments, who were ex-
that the convention in framing the article state the cluded from the government of the University, but
necessity that existed as an apology for touching the he thought that by this provision in the Constitu-
chartered rights of the college. They did not take tion; the College might lose the assistance of able
upon themselves the power to take away rights pre- and useful men wino were not Congregationalists:
viously granted-ihey only undertook to declare He mentioned that Mr. Hollis made a large dona-
who shall be successors, under the charter, of a tion to the University, and requested that a ninis-
body of men who had ceased to exist, and proceed- ter of this town, of his own persuasion in religion,
ed to give a power, 10 those who were declared the
might be an overseer, but it was refused. If mon-
suçęessors. He presumed that the convention ey was granted to the college by Congregationalisis
would follow the example that was set us by the óniy, then it was right enough that it should be
convention of 1780. They liad no difficulty in pro- governed solely by Congregationalists; but if men
viding that all the powers which were tiren posses- of other denominations contributed to its funds, ho
sed by the provincial legislature, should continue saw no reason why they should not share in its gov-
to be exercised by the General Court of the Coni- ernment. He did not mean to say that the gov-
inonwealth, with the limitation which before exist- ernment of the University had not been well admin-
ed. The gentleman from Hingham, was in an istered, nor that it would not have been equally well
ror in supposing that they exercised any power over acministered by persons of different denominations:
the charter. They left the charter as to all the If the original charter expressed thiat the portion of
rights and privileges conferred by it, where they the overseers composed of the clergy of the six
found it.
neigliboring towns should be Congregationalists, he
But the question arises whether the legislature should wish to have it confirmed. He only wished.
has the power to make alterations without the con- to know how the fact was.
sent of the corporation. This question is to be set- Mr. QUINCY, in reply said that lie would satisfy
tled by the judiciary. If any wieration is made, it the gentleman on the subject of his enquiry.
He
must be made by the legislature with the cousent of was happy to hear the remarks of that gentlenian:
the corporation, which consists of:gentlemen of They were wise, honourable, and characteristic of
great talents and great,liberality; and without their lim, and he was sorry that the charter of the col-
consent, if the judiciary should declare they possess lege did not permit the board of overseers to'avail
the authority. He made these remarks in reply to themselves of his talents and moderation. He read
those which had been made by the gentleman froin from the charter of 164%, a passage; in which it is
Hiugham, and he loped they would be satisfactory ordered that the board of overseers shall consist of
to him and to the Convention.
the Governor, Deputy Governor;Magistrates and the
Mr. MARTIN, of Marblehead moved to strike teuchiugi elders of six adjointing towns. The teache
out the word Congregatiorul in inc clause " the gov- ing elders of these towits were ministers of the
ernor, &c. together with the ministers of the congre- congregational churches, and it had always been
gational churches, in the towns of Cambridge, &c. the cxposition of that charter, that it was confined
shall be 82. vested with all the powers and authori-. in its application to the clergyinen of that denomi
tv lclouging ke, to the overseas vf Harrard Col. nation. In the supplementary charter of 1650,
leye.“ Constitution, chap. V. Sect. 1, Art. 3. He which contained a fuller exposition of the grants
siid the gentleman from Hiogiran, had not goné far in the first charter, the corporation of the col-
enough for uim in objecting to the word congregation- ! lege was made to consist of the same persons.-
ai only. He wished likewise to strike ont rewards These charters were acted upon, without any fur-
and iirivities in Cháp. 5. Sec.2. He found fault ther grant until 1780. It had been understood, up
with thc libcrality cribe Logislature in granting one to this day ile embracing the congregational clergy
er
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
45
only, and the convention, of 1780, confirmed that
and the age in which he
construction
lived, received satisfactory explanations in this pai-
Mr. J. DAVIS, of Boston, observed that the ticular; so satisfactory at least, that he did not
grounds of the Report of the Select Committee; withhold the bountiful donation whicb he intended.
on the subject under consideration, had been so He only requested ultimately, to have the nom-
fully and clearly explained, and enforced, that lie ination of the first Professor, submitted to
should only offer soine remarks suggested by what his approbation. That Professor was the
had been offered by his Rev. Colleague, (Rev. Dr. Rev. Dr. Wigglesworth, a minister of the Con-
Baldwin.) That gentleman, if he understood hin gregational order, a choice which Mr. Hollis apa
correctly, had candidly admitted that if he was as- proved. The correspondence between Mr. Hollis :
sured that the eriginal charter of the University and President Wadsworth will evince bis entire sat-
was, in regard to the clerical portion of the Board isfaction with the proceedings on the part of the Colo
of Overseers, limited'to Ministers of the Congrega- ' lege. He was assured with truth; that youth of the
tional denomination, he should not think he ought Baptist persuasion would be cheerfully received in
to contend for an alteration,
Nothing Mr. D. the seminary, and have the same privileges and ad-
thought could be plainer, tban that such was the vantages as the members of any other denomination,
true intent and meaning of the original as well as The liberality of that gentleman was imitated by
the confirmatory charter, If there could have successors of the same family.
His nephew was
-been at any time any doubts on the subject, this still more munificent in his donations, Others of
construction inust be considered as the settled con- the same naine, even down to the present time,
struction, by the language of the article in the Con- have given substantial marks of their attachment to
stitution, now under consideration. If there were the University, circumstances which afforded
originally any thing doubtful orambiguous as to this additional evidence of their continued approbation
part of the overseers board, it was by the Constitu- of the temper and conduct of the institution which
tion in express terms limited to the ministers of the they cherished. In the limitation under considera-
Congregational Churches of the six neighbouring tion, there was nothing new or peculiar. An Uni-
towns, and must so remain, unless an alteration versity in a neighboring state (Rhode Island) was
should be made pursuant to the proviso at the close committed almost entirely to members of the Bap-
of the article. If his Rev. Colleague therefore, tist persuasion. The college in New York was in
would reel himself restrained from attempting a in the care of Episcopalians. Mr.D. had no partiali-
change in the provision, by a constitutionalarend- ty for these theological solicitudes. But we should
ment, if he were persuaded that the limitation was be careful not to indulge our own views and biases
created by the original charter, which was by an to the prejudice of vested rights. Even in the
pres.
act of the Colonial Assembly, be ought certainly ent times our legislatures do not hesitate in granting
to be equally restrained by the express language of acts of incorporation to give peculiar and exclusive
the Constitution, in regard to which there was no powers to those who originate the institution for
ambiguity, and nothing left for construction. The which corporate powers are solicited. Upon the
University therefore rested on chartered rights, same principle by which the requirement for which
which it could not be presumed that the convention the gentleman from Hingham contends, should be
would in any degree disturb or impair.--The foun- introduced into the constitution, we might essen-
dation of that important Seminary might not in this tially vary and mutilate the charters of other insti-
particular rest on such broad foundation, as would tutions in the Commonwealth, which may not be
he congenial to the liberal spirit of the present constructed altogether agreeably to our wiskes.---
times. But, to render justice to our ancestors, we
Such a course would be justly alarming to the com-
must recur to its foundation. This venerable insti- munity, and would, in no instance, he hoped, bę
tution was one of the early objects of their care.- pursued.
They had a strong persuasion of the great impor-
After Mr. Davis had finished, Mr. Martin's mo.
tance of a learned ministry. Their institution was tion' was read from the chair, and declared by the
dedicated to Christ and the Church”-and with chairman to be out of order
such views, the clerical part of the board of over- Mr. FREEMAN, of Boston stated a fact with
seers, was introduced, as the most natural and effi- respect to church rights. The Episcopal minister
cacious guardians and promoters of an institution of Boston, he said, once claimed a right to be an ove
whose prime object was the supply of the country erseer of Harvard University, and applied to the
with able and learned ministers. At that period | Bishop of London on the subject. He received for
there were no clergy in the Colony but of the Con- answer that no teaching elders were known in the
gregational order. If the present state of the Church of England. Mr. F. said he was not a
country required a wider range in the selection of Congregational minister himself, and consequently
members for the clerical part of the board, it could an alteration in conformity to the views of his col-
be effected by law, if the alteration should be league from Boston (Mr. Baldwin) would be for his
consistent with the charter; and if not the conven- advantage ; but the fact was, that Harvard Univer.
tion would doubtless hesitate in undertaking to af- sity was a congregational institution. He gave hiş
fect a chartered right, by a proposed amendinent to testimony however to the liberality it had shown to-
the constituzion which could not be effecced by law.
wards Christians of different sentiments. He ob-
A different organization of the board of overscers
served that there were two colleges founded for a
in this particular may be desirable. It may be here- particular religion, and instanced the college at
after effected. In the mean time it should be remem- Providence, where it is required that the President
bered that no injurious consequences have arisen
shall be a Baptist.
from this construction of the board of overseers.
M. BALDWIN rose to correct a mistake. He
Uniform liberality and Catholiqism had been the dis- said he was ą, fellow of Brown University. That
tinguished traits in the history of the University,and college was not an exclusive one. The founders of
no instance of partiality, or injustice, from prefer-
it were principally Baptists, and they provided that
ence or dislike to any religious sect or denomina- the president should be a Baptist; but all the other
tion, could be pointed out or verified. The Rev. officers might be of other denominations. That in
gentleman had adverted to the denial of a favorite fact, eight of the present fellows were Baptists and
wish of one of its distinguished benefactors, Mr.
four were not; and of the corporation, consisting of
Hollis, that a clergyman in the town of Boston, of thirty six members, twenty two were Baptists, four
his religious persuasion, should be admitted to Congregationalists, five Episcopalians and five
a share in the government. However this might Friends.
be, it was certain that Mr. Hollis, a man who was
Mr. TUCKERMAN, of Chelsea, said he should
7
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION. -
1
*
vote for the adoption of the resolution for two rea- rise upon this question if my sentiments had been
sons. 1st. The convention of 1780, he thought, ] expressed by any gentleman who has preceded.
rightly restricted themselves to declaring who me in the debate. And my principal object will
should be the successors of the magistrates and be to explain and enforce the proposition taken by
teaching elders who constituted the corporation the Rev. Gentleman from Chelsea, viz : that this
before that time. They declared that the succes- convention have no authority to interfere with the
sors of the teaching elders were the congregational rights, privileges and powers of the University, as,
mwisters of the six adjoining towns. 2d. The act they now hold them under the charter of their in
of 1810, in proposing certain changes in the char- corporation. I go further and state, that if such an
ter, was conditional on its being accepted by the interference should be made or indulged by this
corporation. At the meeting of the President and convention, their doing would be void and of no
Fellows of Harvard College, they were in a for- effect, unless accepted by the Government of the
mal manner accepted by the corporation and Leard University. Before I proceed to the explanation
of overseers. It was therefore understood that
of this principle, I would remark, that the liberal
the legislature had no right to make any change in principles and feelings expressed by the Rev. gen-
the charter, without the consent of the corpora- tleman from Hingham, are felt and reciprocated by
tion. If the legislature had no right, this conven- all good men, and particularly by the friends of
tion has none.
the College ; but I 'apprehend the gentleman last
Mr. J. PHILLIPS, of Boston, said, if he un- mentioned is under a mistake when he says that
derstood gentlemen correctly, the objection to the the provision in the article of the constitution now
provision m the Constitution, was on account of under consideration which designates :ministers of
its being exclusive. If the question could be set- the congregational Churches, as a part.of.the num-
tled by the Convention, it might be worth while, ber which is to compose the board of overseers,
perhaps, to make a different provision; but where is repugnant to the third article of the declaration
chartered rights were concerned, the Convention of rights, which provides that there shall be no
must pause. The original .charter of 1642, had subordination of one sector denomination of chris-
made use of the terms, teaching elders. What was tians, under another. This part of the college char-
the intention of the Legislature ? Every lawyer, i ter, has no reference to the religious establishments
he said, knew the value of contemporaneous inter- of the state, or of the University, or of the people
pretation of laws, and from 1642 to the present at large. It only .comprehends à provision, that
time, the charter "had been construed so as to ex- certain clergymen of a particular description, re-
clude episcopal and all other ministers, except | siding in several towns' in the vicinity, shall, toge-
congregationalists, 'from being overseers. Forty ther with the Senate and Supreme Executive of
years ago the Convention only changed the name. the State, compose a part of the board of over-
In substance the congregational ministers were the secrs. This board have no.ecclesiastical powers or
sanie as the teaching elders. It might be desirable privileges, are composed of a good majority of lay-
to open the office of Overseer of the University, to men, and their principal business is to superintend,
i ministers of all denominations, but it could not be and advise as to the temporal.concerns of the
done without the consent of the University. The University. The University have, and ought to
legislature undertook some years ago, to alter the have the exclusive right:of selecting and appoint-
charter, but it was upon condition that the Univer- | ing their own Oficers and Governors—and that
sity should accede to the alteration. The Univer- part of their charter now under consideration, con-
sity had its rights defined in its charter, and while tains nothing more than a provision to that effect.
it kept within the limits marked out by it, it was I will now explain the reason why this convention
independent of the legislature.
ought not and cannot interfere with the Goveru-
Mr. PARKER of Boston, (the President, wish- ment of the University, so as to alter or change
ed his colleague (Mr. Baldwin) to review the prin- the same in any respect whatever., without its con-
ciples he had laid down. He understood him to sent. The charter of the University, was granted
say, that if the privilege of beiug an overseer uf in the year 1642, by the colonial government. It
the University were given by the original charter was granted and confirmed by the competent au-
to Congregational ministers exclusively, the grant thority, then existing. This charter is a grant, a
ought to be confirmed. This principle was a sound contract between the Grantor and the Grantces
one, and after hearing the passages which lead been the Government, and the corporation accepting
read from the original charter (by Mr. Quincy, he the charter. By those principles which are of uni-
understood him to admit:that the privilege was o- versal application and authority relative to the law
riginally given to men of that persuasion, as it was of contracts there exists no .power in any govern-
matter of general information that the teaching ment of laws, founded upon the freedom and equal
elders were congregationalists. I would seem rights ef the people, by which this contract.or grant
then to follow from these two principles, that it is can be altered or impaired without the consent of
not in the power of the convention,if it were desira- the parties to it. The rights and obligations re-
ble, lo alter the government of the University; but sulting from it are rested and.cannot be taken away
he gentleman had laid down another principle, or abrogated by the arbitrary act of any man or:bo-
which might seem to him to give the convention a dy of men.
When the constitution of 1780 was
right to interfere, .viz. That those who had contrib- made and adopted, these rights and obligations
uted money for the support of the institution,ought were recognised and confirmed by that instrument.
,'to have a share in the government of it. He (Mr. It became expedient for the convention which fram-
P.) apprehended however that the gendeman would ed that constitution, to give such a construction to
see cause to abandon this principle. Suppose a the original charter, as to declare who were the
person of the legislature makes 2 voluntary.dona- successors to this ancient.corporation ; this in my
tion to an institution of this kind. Can such a de-
opinion was expedient, though not absolutely necesa
.nation be thought to give a right to interfere in the
sary ; for it is a principle of the common law., that
government of it? If the grant is made upon that a change of government does ñot abrogate the rights
condition, this alters the case. But suppose the of al.corporation. It was expedient, because that
Legislature of R. Island should make a large dona- part of the board of overseers disignated by the
tion to Brown University; it surely could never be
teaching elders” required an explanation,
iniagined that the Legislature would have a right and a contemporaneous construction. It is well
that
Any person than a Baptist might known to those who recollect-the stile of the an-
be President of the University.
cient laws of Massachusetts, both before and after
* Mr. D. DAVIS, of Boston-I should not the adoption of the chartcr of 1692, that teaching
.
ternis
to say,
other person
MASSACHUSETTS: CONVENTION.
.
47
A
elders, were the same persons that we now. call the constitution to show that all the three articles of
ministers of the Gospel, or public. teachers, and the first section of the 5th Chapter were framed in:
that in the year 1692, all these teaching elders or a similar form, and they should each have the same
ministers of the Gospel, were teachers or ministers construction. The first article begins with a recital
of the congregational Churches. A recurrence to of facts, that the College was founded in 1636, and..
the ancient laws and ecclesiastical history of the that many persons of great eminence have been in
state for a century and a half,, will shew this to be it initiated in arts and sciences qualifying them for
the case.
The construction therefore, given in usefulness in church and state, and that encourage-
this case, by the convention of 1780, was unques- inent thereof tends to the honor of God, advantage
tionably correct ; but whether it were. so or not, of religion, and benefit of these United States, and
it has now become immaterial to us of this con- here ends the recital; and the article proceeds to
vention ; for this construction was adopted and ac- declare a present right, that the corporation shall
cepted by the Government of the University; and it | have, hold and enjoy all the powers, authorities &c.
may be said, that in this respect' as well as in whicſthey now have,or are entitled to have. Here,
others, they hold their charter under the highest was no assertion or qualification of a principle, no.
source of human power and authority, viz :. by restraint on the legislature or command to them,
the grant, assent, and declaration of the but a mere declaration of a state of things existing
whole people of Massachusetts ; not merely by in 1780; and it was all true: To be sure the rights
legislative but by the highest source of power and would have been enjoyed by thật Institution, if not
right, the constitutional authority of the common- so declared at that time ; but as it is declared, any
wealth. If this reasoning be correct, it follows thing pow done to alter the phraseology, would be
conclusively that neither the legislature, nor even in effect to resolve that the state of things in 1780.
the whole people of this state can deprive the Uni- was not truly and jụstly stated in the. Constitution.
versity of their chartered rights-these, are unal- -The second Article begins with a recital, that by
terably established and confirmed by the constitu- divers persons, gifts, grants, devises &c. had been
tion of the United States, which provides that no heretofore made, and proceeds to declure that they
laws shall be made," impairing the obligation of
are confirmed. He demanded, are, they not con-..
contracts”-The charter of a corporation is a con- firmed? The Convention in 1780 could have de.
tract between the government and the grantees- clared no otherwise ; and if in this part of the
If the grant respects a religious or literary institu- Chapter we make an amendment, we resolve in ef-
tion, the consideration, upon which it is made is fect, not only that they should not have so declared,
mutual.; on the part of the governinent the consid- but that indeed they did not so declare justly and
eration is the good morals, principles and literary ) truly: --The third article begins hy recital of the
improvements it is intended to encourage and dis- board of overseers constituted by the act of 1642,and
seminate ; on the part of the corporation, the con- of the necessity of ascertaining the successors of
sideration is, among others, the employment and that board, and declares that the Governour, Lieut.
advantages it gives to its officers and founders. Governour, Council:and Senate. are and shall be
This contract is-sacred, and under the protection deemed their successors, and then with thic Presi-
of the highest authority, the constitution of the dent and ministers of the Congregational churches
United States; and on this account it follows most of Cambridge,' Watertown &c. they are vested
;
ere to do an act in
with all the powers and authorities belonging to
ihis convention which altered the government, or
the overseers.
the rights of thie University in the smallest degree, This part of the Constitution he contended inust
our act would be null and void, unless accepted and be taken altogether with reference to that time,
assented to by the government of the college. I as a declaration of facts and of rights then existing.
express this opinion with more confidencc, because That the Articles are all of oné form, made, if I may
we know that this question has recently come be- so say, on one last. It does not, like other parts of
fore and been decided by the highest indicial au- this Instrument.look, to any future time. It as-
thority of the United States, in the case of Dart- serts no principle, commands no duty, giveș no new
mouth College ;:that case presented a question pre- right, takes away or qualifies no. old one, requires
cisely similar to what might arise between the go- nothing and restrains nothing in the Legislature or
vernment of this state and the university of Cam- any other branch of the government. It merely
bridge, in case we should adopt without its consent states, what, if any thing was said, it could not
any provisions which might impair or infringe their avoid stating, and what must then have been and
chartered rights. The legal discussions in the case must now be the universal opinion of the communi-
of Dartmouth College, both by the bar and the ty, that the university in all its privileges, estates,-
bench, liave not been surpassed for their learning | meinbers, rights, pfficers, corporation and over-
or their literality, in any country or in any age, seers, then stood on the rights therein recited, the
and as the questions in that case have been decided same rights as every other corporation. It was not
under the advantages of so much light and delibe- in the nature of things, that that convention should
ration, and by an authority, by ivhich we are all at be supposed to give any rights at that time, nor can
this moment hound, it cannot be expedient 'to de- the case permit a' supposition that any were or
part from its salutary influence. One word further, could be taken away.. The wise men who, framed
if the University now or hereafter wish for a this Constitution use very different language when
change in its government, either in its principles, they assert any new principle, secure any new
or in the mode or the persons hy whom it is admin. Il right, require any duty, impose any restraint on the
istered, the legislstive power have competent au- legislature or any other body; but in all these ar-
thority at all times to afford them the desired aid.- ticles they merely announce an existing state of
It is clear that we cannot force upon them any such facts, declare the Governour &c. are succes-
change
sors in 1780, and if we change the words,
Mr. SAVAGE, of Boston;. said he: should not we decare an absurdity in 1820, that they
rise to detain the house, but that no gentleman, in
not overseers in 1780. We might as
the course of the debate had taken up the subject well vote seven times. seven to be fifty and noi
on the grounds, on which the special committee forty-nine, as alter the phraseology, because we
had proceeded. Yet he believed the result was ca- would lave desired others, when we had to state a
pable, if any thing was, of demonstration, and if fact which could not be stated in others. The word
the members would patiently consider the subject, congregational” is proposed to be stricken out,
the result in the convention must be as unanimous but if it is stricken out, the declaration will, not be:
as it was in the cominittec roon.
oon. He referred to true in the constitution. Do not the gentlenren.
/
were
1
48
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
from Hingham, he asked, and Marblehead and my rights of Massacuusettesweite taken away by a post
reverend colleague see at once, that the language arbitrary and tyrànnical decree in Chancery, on a
is altogether declaratory of what is, not what ought scire facias to annul the charter oi Charles I.-
to be? And is not the conclusion of the committee
All rights of all sorts, dependant on that charter,
in the first resolution irresistille"? By the proviso were annulled. . Not: Sir, said he, that my ances-
at the end.of the articles, the legislature are en- tors or yours were, or could be, deprived of the
powered, in as full a manner as the legislature of actual possession of their highest rights. They
the late province, to make any alteration " condu-held them by something better than paper. No
cive to its advantage." The framers of the consti-l doubt, Sir, that nullification was a nullity, and af-
tution well knew, that no other alterations could ter the restoration of liberty, with William and
be made by the legislature. The fostering kind- | Mary, any tribunal and especially the highest, must
ness of the legislature has in fact been three times have overruled the extravagantedict which pretend-
applied. The first in 1810 changed the constitution ed to annul our charter without our being heard.
of the Board of Overseers in part, by excluding the From 1685 to 1780, no declaration could be made,
Senate and introducing fifteen laymen specially who were the successors of the former board, ex-
chosen at large, and restricting the clerical part of cept by the College itself. They called to such
the board in number. There seemed to be some
seats proper men in the successive periods, and
reason for this, because the board was thought tom the Constitution confirnied in their places the men
numerous. And indeed the number was much in-
who were then found in those places. They were
creased from the state of it in 1642. The governor, the very men designed by the Colony charter, as
deputy governour and magistrates, were few. The far as it could be followed. "But tho Province char-
assistants, who only were the magistrates in 1641 ter of Williain avd Mary, though it was good for
amounted to eight, in 1643 to ten, in 164.2, the year | liberty and right, was not sufficiently good. Appli-
of creation of the board, the number cannot easily cation was made, time and again, relative to the
be ascertained. The fifteen laymen were, with College, and no change could be obtained, wheu it
the governor, lieut. governor, council
, president was necessary. Laws, orders, regulations were
of the senate, and speaker of the house, substituted. made, but could not take effect, because our Gov-
But the community were not satisfied, and they crnour was not “from amongst us." All laws,
should not have been satisfied. Two years after rules and orders were submitted to the King in
the law was repealed; but the repeal was total, Council
, and no improvement for the college could
and unhappily the advantage of the first act, which be expected. His Majesty's Governor had orders,
introduced a small body from the community at and with those orders, providing any supervision
large was not retained. The community were not by his Majesty, or Deputy, the College would nev- .
satisfied, and they ought not to have been, for it er complý. 'Had the institution complied, the
was taking away overseers already appointed, and free born sons of the college in the General Court
so violating their rights and those of the College. never would have consented to an enactment,
The third act, soon after, makes the board as now
Now, it was proper, though no failure of a good
constituted, keeping the Senate with other persons corporation and good overseers had ever been suf- .
of the civil list, as exhibited in the constitution, | fered, it was becoming in the Convention of 1780,
and the additional laymen of the act of 1810. So to state a declaration of fact, for all those illustri-
that it is now as it ought to be, not indeed as it was ous men and their fathers had been born since
declared by the constitution, but asunderthat instru- the original attempted infraction of right in 1685.-
ment, according to the proviso, it might be made. I can, inform the commitee said Mr. S. how these
The clerical part of the board are congregational, articles were introduced, and these will support the
but the lay part have several different persuasions, resolution under debate. In the Convention which
If there were a disposition and tendency to evil, it formed our Constitution, so many sons of an illus-
would be counteracted, and nobody can entertain trious mother considered the University as an ob-
an apprehension of a mean, exclusive, bigoted | ject to be named, I am happy that as many are here
spirit, were it possible to find such in the distin- to revise their instrument. They inquired of the
guished gentlemen who must ever be a minority of i President, and other authority of that day, probably
the board. The Governor Lieutenant Governor, of the corporation and overseers, and asked if any
Council and Senate, of every possible denomina- thing need to be done. What was the answer, and
tion, men whom the people delight to honour, are the result? The governors of the College offered
the great majority, and always must be ready to these propositions, which were inserted without
prevent any such injury. Mr. S. said he rose alteration. What are they ? Any restraint of
merely to state, the views of the Committee to power to be exercised against thém? No, Sir, but
whom the subject was referred, and did not feel merely a declaration of what their rights had been,
obliged to vindicate the college against illiberality. || and then were ; with authority to the legislature to
Many of the Committee, perhaps a large majority. I make any such acts as would be conducive to their
were sorry for the expression in the constitution, advantages not specifying any acts, demanding this
but they were satisfied it could not be otherwise, or denying that.
because such was the fact in 1780, and had been When in select Commitee these articles wereta-
from the commencement of the college. Such is ken up,aſter diligent perusal of them and considera-
the fact now, and it seemed at first to several of the tion of any amendments of which they at first were
gentlemen, and to him, that we might declare the thought by some susceptible, we all agreed there
present successors. But, said he we need not de- was nothing to be done. No principle is asserted
clare who for all succeeding time shall be succes- in them, of which we could suppose a discussion
Who were in 1780 the successors of the now to have any influence. It is merely past his-
board of 1642 it was necessary to state ; who they tory, and it seemed not necessary to declare the
now are, it isnotnccessary to state, because all know present economy of its administration. We were
from the law, A constitation is not intended to satisfied that the legislature had all necessary pow.
point out minute exercise of rights, bnt only the er,
and it is evident to all that the legislature here
rights themselves. There always will be succes- can do nothing but right. We sent indeed to the
sors, we need not fear. Those who have righits President thinking that if it were desirable to speak
to their seats have the duty of filling vacancies.-- of the present state of the Institution so highly fa-
But in 1780 there was a necessity of declaring or an, voured, some amendment of phrase declara-
nouncing the fact. For ninety five years there had tory thereof might be introduced. It might seen,
been a failure of formal right to seats at that board, that University should be substituted for College in
either in posse or in esse. In 1685 all the charter one or two places, but both names are uscd witļi
sors.
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
49
I
propriety, and the change is unnecessary. Her of the University. But he was as much as
sons are more anxious that she should be an UNI:
verse to the invidious distinctions which had
VERSITY in fact than in name. We agreed, Sir,
been commented upon, as the gentlemen
to the Report, being perfectly satisfied that no alter-
ation could be made without an absurdity, except
who had inveighed against them; and as
by striking out the whole section. If the whole be the provisions in the Constitution respecting
a mere declaration, I see not, that any gentleman the University were inoperative at this times.
can fail to agree to the resolution.
he would move to amend the Resolution in
On motion of Mr. Pickman, the committee rose,
reported progress, and asked leave to sit again, discussion, by striking out all the words af-
which was granted, and the House adjourned. ter Resolved, and inserting, “ that it is ex-
pedient that the 1st Section of the ed chapa
ter, which respects the University, be ex-
punged from the Constitution."
SATURDAY, Nov. 25.
Mr, D. WEBSTER, said that the time might
The House met according to adjournment.
On motion of Mr. NICHOLS of S. Reading.
come when such a proposition might be very proper.
If the constitution is to be a new draſt-a new con-
Resolved, That the committee on the 10th
stitution—then the constitution of 1820 oughtto omit
Resolution respecting oaths and subscrip-
every thing that is not applicable at the present
tions be instructed to take into consideration time; but he thought the gentleman's motion pre-
the expediency of altering the constitution mature, and he hoped it would be waived.
so as to substitute affirinations for oaths in Mr. DANA, said he was not prepared to act on
the proposition of the gentleman from S. Reading.
all cases whatsoever, where the party shall
Mr. D. took a view of the present form of govern-
entertain religious scruples in regard to tak-
ment of the University. The corporation consisted
ing oaths,
ón motion of Mr. ENOCH MUDGE, of Lynn, with whom originated all laws and regulations for
Ordered, That the Committee on the 7th the government of the University. This was as it
should be. There was a Board of Overseers who
Resolution respecting the Judiciary be in-
structed to consider the propriety and expe-
had a negative only on the proceedings of the Cor-
poration. This too was right. The causes of doubt
diency of providing in the constitution.
in the subject before the committee arose from the
that the person of a debtor, where there is manner only in which that Board was constituted.
not a strong presumption of fraud, shall not It was now composed of the Governor, Lieut. Gor-
be committed or continued in prison after
ernor, Council and Senate, &c. He could not tell
what alterations might be made by the convention,
delivering upon oath or affirmation, all his with respect to these officers of the State Govern-
estate, real and personal, for the use of his
ment, nor of course how these alterations would
creditors in such manner as shall hereafter affect the Board of Overscers, He therefore
be regulated by law.
thought the gentleman's motion was premature,
and should move that the committee rise, with a
On motion of Mr. WILLARD, of Fitchburg,
view to the report lying on the table, until other
Ordered, That the Committee on the 4th
things should be first settled.
Resolution be instructed to inquire into the Mr HUBBARD, of Boston, said he did not
expediency of so altering the Constitution as know that the members of the committee would
that Captains, subalterns, non-commissioned be better prepared than they were then ; that they
officers and privates of the militia be exempt-
would have to go over the same ground again, if the
committee rose, and so lose a great deal of time.
ed from payment of a poll tax during the
,
Mr.WEBSTER, thought the gentleman was
time that they are liable to do military duty. out of order. The question was whether the Com-
On motion of Mr. L. LINCOLN, of Worcester, mittce would rise,
Ordered, That the Secretary forth with Mr. HUBBARD, asked whether the whole sub-
cause to be made a list of the inembers of ject was not before the committee, for the reasons
this Convention arranged alphabetically, by
for not rising were to be taken from the wñolo sub.
ject.
their surnames ; and that in taking the Mr. WEBSTER, said the gentleman was entire-
yeas and nays upon any question the mem- ly wrong. On a notion of this kind, it was never
bers shall be called to answer in the order of heard of, that the merits of the general subject
their names on that list.
should be discussed.
The Chairman considered the motion as analo-
Upon inotion of Mr. QUINCY, the Con-
gous to a motion to adjourn.
vention again resolved itself iuto a committee Mr. HUBBARD, said the subject had been as-
of the whole upon the report of the special signed for to day, and he thought they should not
Comunittee on the 9th Resolution, Mr. Yar-
be better prepared by postponing it.
num in the chair.
My. BLAKE, of Boston, was in favor of the
The question before the Committee was
committee rising. He was unprepared himself
and he apprehended it was the case with others.--
upon the adoption of the 1st resolution con- He had not made up his mind, whether the Univer-
tained in the Report, viz. that it was inexpe- síty were a private or a public institution, and he
dient to make any alteration in the Consti-
was not sure that the convention had not the right
tution so far as it respects Harvard Universi-
to inould the government of it into what form they
pleascd.
ty.
Mr. QUINCY said, as gentlemen had been allow-
Mr. NICHOLS, of South Reading, said ed to give reasons for thc committee rising, mem-
he was satisfied, from the discussion of the bers ought to be allowed to give reasons on the
preceuing day, that the Convention had no
other side. He said there was an immensc business
before the convention; they miglit talk for twenty
power to interfere with the chartered rights
years upon the subject which had been discussed,
50
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
He pro-
+
but he conceived it lay in a nut shell. That after after for the Legislature to determine would be the ...
the light thrown upon it yesterday, the house were expediency of establishing such a Court. He pro-
as ready for the question as they eyer would be comceeded to consider the proposition for such an al-
The 'debates' would be protracted to an endless teration as would expressly grant to the Legislature
length by the course they were pursuing.
the power of granting to towns charters of incor-
Mr. BLAKE differed from the gentleman as to poration with city powers. He had no doubt that
the discussion of yesterday being satisfactory. He the Legislature possessed this power already. The
had expected much instruction from it. The three power of granting acts of incorporation of any kind
gentlemen from Boston had given cach a different was no where conferred in express terms, yet the
reason for the report of the special committee. One Legislature kad always exercised that power. He
of them, (Mr. Quincy,) if he understood him right, I thought the difficulty arose only from the provision
lamented that they were foreclosed from altering the that the Seleetņen should preside at certain elec-
governmentofthe College,as the Constitution hadon- tions. This difficulty would be easily overcome by
lygiven a construction to chartered rights. Another, granting a charter with the usual officers of city gov-
(Mr. D. Davis) went on a different ground,making nó ernment, and with selectmen whose only duty should
attempt at construction; he said the Constitution he to preside at such elections as by the Constitu-
made a new grant, and that it was in the nature of lion the Selectmen are required to preside at. For
a contract, and therefore not in the power of the all other purposes the usual city officers might be
convention to interfere. The third (Mr. Savage) | appointed. He proceeded to consider some of the
thought nothing was said in the constitution that cases in which it had been decided by the courts
was applicable to the present time, and took the of jadicature, that the Legislature had no right to
ground of expediency. He (Mr. B.) was not pre- interfere, such as applications for new trials. He
pared to say whether either of them was right. He thought that such questions were most properly
wished no injury to the celebrated and higbly res- decided in the courts of justice, and that the com-
pected seminary at Cambridge. He did not wish munity had acquiesced in this course.
to interfere with its operations;, but he wanted the ceeded to inquire whether it would be useful to at-
subject before the committee to be thoroughly un- tempt a more precise definition of powers. Were
derstood and discussed; it had not been yet. It they about to draft the constitution anew they
involved a question of law of great importance. He might have made some improvement in this
hoped the committee would rise, if the convention respect and adopted a better arrangement.-
should sit all winter and suinmer too.
But the committee impressed with the apprehen-
After a few remarks by Mr. Quincy and Mr. siou least they should do too much, had thought
WEBSTER, the committee rose.
that no alteration should be recommended which
On motion of Mr. WEBSTER in Convention, did not appear to be required by imperious neces-
the committee of the whole was discharged from sity. With these views, which he explained.much
the consideration of the whole subject which had more at large, he said the committee had come to
been before it, and the report ordered to lie on table, the result ; that it was inexpedient to make any al-
TIME OF SESSION OF THE LEGISLA- teration in this part of the Constitution. He pro-
TU'RE–The report of the Select Committee, on
ceeded to consider that part of the chapter which
the subject of the General Court, being in order,
confers on the legislature the power to raise taxes,
the Convention resolved itself into a committee imposts, &c. In some states, he said, that a polí
of the whole, Mr. WEBSTER in the chair. tax was thought uuequal, and many persons, had
The report being read, and the question stated
contended that taxes should be entirely drawn from
on the adoption of the first resolution, as follows- property. But on recurring to the practice that
Resolved, That the Constitution ought to
had always prevailed in this commonwealth, he
thought it inexpcdient to to make any alteration in
be altered so as to change the time at which
.
All men are bound to the
the Legislative body shall assemble every ment by the same tie. All equally receive protec-
year, from the last Wednesday of May, to tion from it—and he thought if it were submitted
the first Wednesday of January.
to that class of men who would be exempted from,
Mr. DANA, of Groton, thought it a duty to go | poll tax were abolished, to determine whether that
contributing to the burdens of the public if the
into an'exposition of the reasons which induced
him, as a member of the special committee, to a-
tax should be retained, they would be too generous
gree to the report. That part of it which relates
to consent to receive the protection without con-
to the constitution of the legislature by two branch-
tributing their proportion to the support of it. In
es, he thought was in conformity with an iniver-
regard to the power of laying an excise upon arti-
saliy acknowledged principle at the present day.
cles which may be subject to an excise duty im-
A contrary doctrine had been inaintained former-
posed by the general government, he thought
ly, but it was now exploded, and no argument | legislature.
that it might be safely left to the discretion of the
would be necessary to induce the convention to ac-
As to the proposition for chang-
oede to the course pursued by the committee in
ing the time of the assembling tire Legislature, it
this respect. He passed to the second portion of
was an abstract proposition on which every mem-
the repori, which had given rise to a resolution for
ber was competent to judge for himself, and which
an alteration. This he thought would be readily
needed no illustration. He concluded by moving
acceded to. The subject of the third portion of
that the
committee accept the first resolution.
the report required a little further consideration,
Mr. PICKMAN of Salem did not agree with
The powers conferred on the Legislature he
the gentleman who reported the resolution that the
thought were sufficiently ample.
first Wednesday of January was the most conveni-
It had been sometimes doubted whether power. I said he had come to the convention with a fixed
ent day for the assembling of the Lcgislature. He
was granted to establish a court of Chancery. It
determination not to vote for any alteration which
was important that they should possess that power,
but he thought they already possessed it. He refer- and he was glad to find ihat other members enter-
did not appear manifestly proper and cxpedient,
red to the article which
conters the power of estab-
lishing a judicatory. The doubt which had been
tained the same sentiments. He was particularly
expressed had arisen from there being no expres-
pleased to hear the gentleman who offered the
sion which relates to the particular powers of a
resolutions for appointing the various committees
Court of Chancery. If this doubt were removed
(Mr. Prescott) say, that we should approach the
constitution with a cautious hand ; that we should
as he thought it would be, by the expression of the
opinion of this Convention, ihe only question here-
abstain wherever the advantage of any alterationi
was doubtful. Mr. Pickman garc reasons why the
!
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION5
51,
.
1
1
first: Wednesday in January should not be the com- in past years to trarel over the distance from their
mencement of the political year. In the first place, )) homes to the capital twice-to get togetherin May
it was important that there should be a ful atten and separate, leaving the greater part of the busi-
dance of the members of the Legislature when ness for another session in January. It would be a
the government was to be organized. This would great convenience to all,to come togetberat the latter
frequently be prevented by the inclemency of the season for the first and only time. The travelling
season. The first business of the Legislature was not often so bad as to make it difficult. The
would be to fill vacancias in the Senate ; but if the several societies which hold their anniversaries' at
vacancies should be filled before the members the time of the General Election will follow the
were generally arrived, persons might be elected Legislature; the charitable contributions will not
into the Senate contrary to the general sense of be lessened and may be augmented. There would
the Legislature. Another reason, if the first be a great saving in the travelling fees of members,
Wednesday of January is fixed upon, the time for and he thought the change ough to take place.
the elections must be altered. The State elections Mr. SALTONSTALL, of Salem, said that the
and the elections for officers of the general Gov. attention he had been able to give the suhjece
ernment would come near together and produce had brought him to the same conclusion with his
great excitement. It was important to keep the respected friend and colleague, that they ought
two governments as distinct as possible. Their not to adopt the resolution. The amendmont un-
objects were very different and it was better to der consideration was not one of the most impor-
have the elections distinct.-That great mistakes tant that might probably come before the Conven-
and confusion would arise from amalgamating tion, but every proposition for alteration in an in-
them, as he had reason to know had lately beeu strument so solemn as a constitution which had
the case with respect to the election of electors of stood the test of experience so well as ours, was
the President of the United States. Further, all important. : It demanded the most serious con-
the charitable, religious and literary institutions sideration and ought not to be adopted unless for
hold their anniversary at the time of the general
very strong reasons. Such reasons had not oc-
election in May. The meeting of the Legislature curred to him in sufficient force to convince him
reflects honor on them and they in turn reflect of the expediency of the present amendment. It
honor on the meeting of the Legislature. He he could see that it would tend to lessen the evils
mentioned in particular the Massachusetts Con- of too much legislation or in a great degree to les-
gregational Charitable Society, and expatiated on sen expense, he would not oppose it. "It will not
the benevolent operations of that institution. All lessen legislation. A great part of the business of
this would be done away, as it would be very in- our legislature is now rather of a private, than a
convenient and unpleasant for these institutions to public nature. Let us'look at the course of it. It
celebrate their anniversaries in January, and they is now almost invariably the practice ; it is indeed
would be inore likely to fall into decay. There an established rule to pass orders of notice in all
were other reasons. The last week in May had these cases; with a very 'few exceptions, they
by ancient usage become, as it were, sacred, as a are niade returnable at the next Session of the
jubilee. It was emphatically the people's week. General Court. No aci would pass unless an 'or-
Persons from all quarters flocked to the metropolis der of notice bad been issued, nor except in espe-
and mixed in social intercourse. On the score of cial cases, unless the order is returnable at a sub-
economy, it was better for the Legislature to meet sequent session. He would appeal to gentlemen
in May when the days were longer. More busi- of experience in our legislature, to the members
ness could be done with greater comfort; and since of the standing committees, if many of those pro-
the separation of Maine, the travelling expenses jects do not expire between the sessions. Nothing
of the Legislature were much reduced. A great more is heard of them. The passions have had
part of the business of the May Session was of a time to cool. What will be the effect of the pro-
private nature-private petitions and remonstran- posed alteration in business of this kind ? If there
ces--order of notice on these petitions &c. These is but one scssion a year, orders will be returnable
things being disposed of at the May Session, gave at the same session at which they are presented.
the Legislature more time to attend to subjects of The interest of the parties will be kept alive:--
importance of a more general nature at the winter The passions will continue excited, their ardor
session. He therefore hoped the resolution would will have no time to abate. Or perhaps a rule will
not 'pass.
be adopted like that in New York of giving previ-
Mi. ADAMS, of Quincy,rose and inquired wheth- ous police a few days or veeks before the session
er it would not be competent to take the sense of the legislature, and then the parties will come,
of the committee so far as it went to decide all arnıcd and eager for the contest, the business of
on that part of the report which proposed no legislation will be conducted amidst great' excite-
alteration, and leave the other part undecided. ment, and will not be so correctly done. As to pub-
In answer to an inquiry whether this course would lic laws, the saine reasons will apply and with at
be in order, the chairman replied that it was not in least equal force. to one at all acquainted with
the regular order of proceedings, but there could the subject can deny the great, the infinite evil of
be no objection to the course if it appeared to be perpetually increasing, perpetually varying laws.-
the unanimous wish of the committee.
Nothing is fised. nothing settled. Scarcely any
Mr. STORY, of Salen), said he was sorry to ob- thing is left for the test of experience. A law
jact to the course proposed, but he had a proposi- | scarcely rcmais long enough to receive a practi-
tion which he considered it his duty to make, froin cal construction. But is it certain the evil' would
which he should be precluded if the course were be reinedied by the proposed alteration in the con-
adopted. The motion consequently was not puț. stitution ? If so, said Mr. Saltopstall, attached as I
Mr. FOSTER, of Littleton, had long been of o- am to the old order of things, fondly as I would cling
pinion, that one session of the General Court was to the few remaining institutions in Massachusetts,
sufficient for the year, and he was not satisfied with I would support it. But he would look again at the
the reasons which had been given against the pro- order of legislation. Now,most important subjects
posed change. May, he said, was one of the inost are referred from one session to the wext It is
busy seasons of the year,and it continued to be busy seldom that au important public law passes the
until the harvest was gathered in. If we retain the same session in which it is proposed. It is post-
ancient time for the stated meeting of the Legisla- | poned to the ciose of the session, and then, almost
ture, there would still be two sessions. Members of course, it is referred to the next. In the mean
would not have patience to finish the public busi- time it is published and at the next session, public
ncst at that busy season. It had been the practice l' opinion is found against it or the plan is abandoned
1
/
i
52
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
are
by its author.
But if this alteration takes place || the principal holiday of Massachusetts. He hoped
what will be the course? Will the new projects the suggestion was not beneath the dignity of this
for improvement be referred? Who that is ac- convention. On this day all are free: It is a day
quainted with tbe benevolent ardour of our l'e- of mirth and festivity. Some of our politicians
förmers cạo believe that? Great attempts will be have lamented that we had so few such days.
made to carry them through at the single session, Why then destroy this most ancient festival of our
and laws will thus often pass, which otherwise state ? Who does not remember when he hailed
would not. The saving of expense if any, will be the return of this anniversary with joy ? On this
inconsiderable, probably not ore than the travel
occasion a large portion of the talents learning
of members to the legislature. The priņcipal bus- and respectability of the commonwealth
iness now done at the summer session is the or- brought together-at a delightful season of the
ganization of the government, and this must be
year, upon this most delightful spot. The influ.
done at some time or other. If there is but one
ence of this is very salutary. And he could not
session in the year, it must occupy as much or but repeat the observation that it is the anniversa-
pore of the time of that session; the days will be ry convention of the clergy and of most of our reli-
much shorter and much less business will be done gious and charitable societies, which do so much
in a day. The session will be much longer than honor to our commonwealth. Another and with
heretofore. The summer session now seldom ex- him a sufficient reason against the alteration was that
ceeds a fortnight, and I need not say that a fort-
it was not necessary. The meeting of the legislature
night added to the single session would be the bas been established for two centuries-why
same expense to the government except for the change it? We înow the practical effects of the
travel of the members, which is inconsiderable.--
present system, that it is good we know not the
The change is not required by the change of
consequences of an alteration ; it may seem to be
circumstances of the Commonwealth. It is true
unimportant, but why should we try the experi-
that many of the most important subjects are com- ment? If ihere is one principle better settled than
mitted to the General government, but much still another, said Mr. S. it is, that an evil must be very
is left to us, all excepl subjects of a public and na- great to justify a change in government. The rea-
tional concern. Still almost every thing we see or sons must amount almost to necessity. None such
feel in life-the subjects that interest us-our daily exist here. I believe a great majority of this con-
concerns-the regulation of our contracts, depend | vention came here oppossed to material changes,
on the government of the Commonwealth. He
but there is no knowing how far we may go. One
said the reason given by the committee for a comunittec reports and the report is accepted ; a-
change, that-so many important subjects are trans- nother report seems unimportant and that is accept-
ferred to the general government, did not sound ed; and so we may go on until finally it will be
pleasantly to his ears-it should not be heard from
thought expedient to take the constitution into a
Massachusetts men—there was tendency enough new draft as has already heen suggested. I hope
to lessen our consequence,he thought. Without our not, and that we shall niake no alterations, except
aid, every thing around and about us is tending to such as are necessary:
reduce the Commonwealth to a mere corporation Mr BLISS, of Springfield, thought the question
--to destroy all the mouuments of its separate ex- an mportant one. It ivas a legislative question;
istence. Let us not, said he, aid this influence; not one about changing a holiday. Was it most
let us not with our own hands make a path for the convenient to have one session of the Legislature
torrent that threatens to overwhelm us, but rather
instead of two, and to hold that session in January
erect mounds and securities against it. It was in- instead of May ? This was the real question ; and
deed true, that a large portion of the Common-
gentlemen wandered when they connected it with
wealth was severed from us, but we should recol- the other subject, upon which they had been expa-
lect how much that which is left is increased in tiating. He hoped the alteration proposed would
importance-how much it exceeds in population, be adopted. It would produce a great saving of
in commerce in manufactures, in ufis, in every expense. This was an important reason, but it
thing whicli calls for the interposition of the legis- was not the only reason. It would be more con-
Jature, the whole commonwealth wheu the present venient with a great proportion of the population.-
constitution was adopted, It will destroy the only It would ensure a more general attendance of the
civil anniversary peculiar tu Massachusetts. Are inembers of the Legislature, who would not be so
gentlemen, he asked, aware how ancient it is ?--
likely to be detained at home, or to desert the bus-
That it was fixed in the first charter-[Here Mr.S. iness of the session, to attend to their private con-
read from the charter of Charles I. 162,7.1627] cerns, as they would if the Legislature assembled
that the first general election was held on this spot in May; and it would prevent a great evil, which
nearly two centuries since, on the last Wednesday had been witnessed, of Legislation going on in the .
of May 1630--that this has remained unchanged summer session-important acts passing-when
in all the changes of our condition ? That it was not a single member was present from any towR
left in
west of the county of Worcester. The grutle-
through our existence as a colony'mmas a province ; men from Salem might attend as well at one cea-
and was preserved after we became a tree, sove- son as at another; it was not so with members liv.
rcign and independent state, by the constitution.-
ing at a great distance. But if the session should
It is one of the oldest anniversaries in the country. be held in January, no undue advantage could be
Why then change it? Who-that knows the pow- taken of the absence of members, as then all would
cr of association—the influence of habit, will doubt have it in their power to attend. These reasons
ils importance. It is counccted with every thing were in perious; if gentlemen thought a holiday
memorable and interesting in our history: On this necessary, let them have one in January; though
day the people of Massachusetts, from the begin- a May pole might not be so proper in that month,
ning have exercised their highest rights—they'l yet they might find some other Popish supersti-
have quietly placed the rulers of their choice in tions which would answer equally well. There
power-the governor and magistrates of the last were amusements suitable for January or Febru-
year have returned to private life, and thiose newly lary as well as for May. Or if necessary, they
chosen in the language of the first charter, have might continue to keep their holiday in May ;
been raised to our high places. Destroy this anni- there would be no dificulty hotever, in the vari-
versary and you will destroy every thing that can ous institutions altering their anniversary. Mr. B..
remind us of the separate existence of Massachu- concluded by recapitulating the arguments he had
seus. Another circumstance is, that we shall lose urged in favour of the alteration proposed.
1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
53
---
was
Mr., ABBOT of Westford moved that the last | ing of the legislature were changed, other altera-
Wednesday of October should be substituted for tions would be rendered necessary.
the first Wednesday of January. He thought that The CHAIRMAN suggested that the debate
time more convenient in many respects; it would should be confined to the onestion whether the res-
accommodate the agricultural interest very well, lolution before, the committee should be amended
and the weather and travelling would be better in by striking out that part which names the time pro-
general. The travelling in January was frequent- posed to be substituted.
y bad, espeoially of late years. He confessed it Mr. QUINCY stated that the resolution admit-
was with difficulty that he could relinquish the fes- ted of a division, and suggested that a division
tival of. May; bit as so much of the state had been would be preferable to the amendment moved by
taken off, he thought one session of the Legislature the gentleman from Groton.
in each year would be sufficient, and he had there- Mr. DANA tlren withdrew his motion, and Mr.
fore made up his mind to l'et the anniversary go. Quincy called for a division of the question
Mr. LAWRENCE, of Groton, was opposed to Mr. BLAKE, of Boston, inquired whether it-
the amendment of the resolution: He said there
a question susceptible of division under the
was the same objection to the month of October rule, and intimated his opinion that it was not,
that there was to that of May. It was ä season The CHAIRMAN stated the rule which declares
when persons engaged in agriculture would be as the right to call for a division of a question where
much occupied. He said that in fixing the time the sense will admit of it. The question whether
for the assembling of the Legislature, it was proper the proposition admits of a division, is to be decid-
to consider other circumstances that are connected ded by the chair, subject to be confirmed or over-
with it. He thonght January would be a much ruled by the house. The chairman decided that
inore proper time, because it is necessary to have in the present case the resolution admitted of a di-
regard to the time when the elections are to take vision, and stated the question then before the com-
place. If the Legislature were to assemble in Oca mittee to be, whether it was expedient to alter the
tober, the annual elections must be had in Sep- time for the meeting of the Legislature.
tember, a season which would be extremely incon- -Mr. STARKWEATHER, of Worthington, said
venient. This was a sufficient reason against the he was in favour of the resolve reported. He was
amendment.. He thought that the month of Janua- avèrse to, alterations generally, but he thought the
ry was the most suitable time for beginning the people would expect one here. It was expensive
session. It would then be in the power of the Leg- 1) and unnecessary to have a session in May. The
islature to transact all the business of the year, and usual course was for the Legislature only to organ
in the power of gentlemen from the country to give ize itself and heär á fevý petitions at that session,
their attendance. This was not the case in June. and members living at a distance would ordinarily
He agreed with the gentleman from Springfield, || say, it is needless for me to attend, there will be
that it was extremely inconvenient for members enough without me: It was true, things might be
from the country to attend in June, and that they well done at this session, but they would not be the
did not attend. "If they were present at the organi- same thirgs which would have been done if all the
zation of the government, they were under the ne- members had been present. It had generally been
cessity of getting leave of absence as soon as pos- thought best to postpone the business of this session
sible, and it was the duty of the Convention to a- to the winter session, and the community therefore
dopt some more convenient time. The charitable looked upon the May session as useless and expen-
societies might meet as well in January. The sive ; and now the business of the Legislature.
fountains of charity would not then be frozen up.-
would be so much diminished that it would have no
The interest which the public feel in these institu- | mo
more to do at the winter session, than it has hith-
tions will not be destroyedy rior tlieir effect impair- erto had. He was going on to give reasons why
ed, The time of their assembling may as well be
the first Wednesday in January was the most prop.
changed as that of the Legislature--the time of er time for the Legislature to assemble, but was in-
holding the Commencement at the University in formed from the chairy that the question of fixing
Cambridge had been changed from July to August the particular time was not before the Committee.
and no inconvenience had been experienced from The question was then taken whether it was
the change. The anniversary was observed in the proper to change the time, and carried iu the affir- ·
same way as it had been before. He would be mative:
the last to give his consent to any unnecessary in-
The other part of the Resolution, fixing the time,
novations in our ancient institutions ; but he was then came before the Cominittee.
decidedly ofopinion that the alteration proposed in Mr TILLINGHAST, of Wrentham, moved to
this resolution, ought to take place, and that the amend, by striking out the first Wednesday in Jan-
miotion for amendment should not prevail.
uary, and inserting the first Wednesday in De-
Mr. DANA, wished to present for consideration,
cember.
the single question whether any change should be Mr. PRÍNCE, of Boston, said he voted in the
made in the time for the purpose of enabling the
special Committee in favor of à change of time, be-
legislature to transact the busines of the year at cause he thought it would accommodate members
a single session. He wished therefore that the res- of the Legislature from the country; he did not
olution could be so amended by striking out that think those consequences would result from the
part of it which designated a particular day to be change, which were apprehended by the gentlemca
substituted, as to express only the expediency of a-
from Salem. He had hoped that the gentlemen
doptidy some different day from the present. from the metropolis would have left it to those
Mr. ABBOT withdrew his motion to amend, and frona tlie country to fix the time ; and, if it was in
Mr. Dana moved to amend the resolution by.strik- order, he would move that a committee of one
ing out that part of it which names the day to be
from each county--
substituted. This question being stated from the The Chairman informed the gentleman, they
chair,
could not appoint any committees, being only &
Mr. S. A. WELLS, of Boston, said his views on committee themselves.
the subject were in full concurrence with thosm Mr. QUINCY wished that the question of a.
which had been expressed by the gentlemen from mendment might be divided:
Salem. He thought no alteration should be made The CHAIRMAN replied; that by the Rules
in the constitution, but such as were founded upon of the Convention, this question could not be divid-
atbolate necessity. If the day for the stated meet-
ed.
1
8
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
It was,
to
Mr. VARNUM thought that October would be a the bills presented to him ; for which purpose ke
more convenient time than the one proposed by was permitted to retain them five days.
the amendment. The business of the country however, customary to load the Governor's table at
would be sufficiently completed.
the end of a session with bills and resolves, so that
Mr. BEACH, of Gloucester, moved that the he had not time to give them such an examination
committee should rise and report progress. . as they ought to receive ; and this had sometimes
Mr. BOND, of Boston, hoped the motion would been
a subject of complaint with the Governor.
not prevail.
Mr. D. did not mean to say that five days were too
The question was taken whether the Committee long or too short a time for the Governor to retain
sliould rise, and carried in the negative.
a bill ; it might sometimes be thought unreasona-
Mr. L. LINCOLN, of Worcester, said there ble for him to detain the legislature five days,
was but one sentiment in the county of Worcester waiting for the return of a bill, when they were
on the question before the Committee that Janua- otherwise ready to adjourn. The governor how-
hy would be the most convenient time, on ever ought to have a reasonable time,and this time
count of the arrangement of the terms of the ought to be certain. There' was an ambiguity in
Courts of Common Pleas in that County, as also the constitution with respect to the five days men-
in Middlesex. In October, harvesting would hard- tioned in it. He had understood indeed that there
ly be. done; even at this present time, much of had been a judicial construction, by which they
the poodlice of the year remained ungathered. were interpreted to mean five Legislative days.
The question was taken for substituting the first He had not seen the grounds of this decision,
Wednesday in December, and decided in the neg- and therefore had still some doubts as
ative.
the meaning of the phrase Legislative days
A motion was then made to substitute the last whether they included or excluded Sundays; for
Wednesday in October.
in a time of great emergency during the revolution.,
Mr. CHILDS, of Pittsfield, said the sentiments the Legislature bad beld a session on Sunday, and
of Berkshire, coincided with those expressed by circumstanceş may require the same to be done
the gentleman from Worcester. October, he said, hereafter. He would therefore have the phrase-
would be in the midst of the autumnal harvest. ology like that adopted in Connecticut--so many
l'he question was taking for substituting the last days exclusive of Sundays.
Wedgiesday in Detober, and determined in tine no-
The question of adopting the resolution was then
xatire.
taken and decided in the affirmative.
The question was then taken for adopting the Mr. DANA moved to amend the report of the
First Wednesday of January, reported in the resol- select committee by inserting immediately after the
uliop, and was carried in the affirmative.
preamble the following resolve :
Qņ motion of Mr. STORY, the committec rose, Resolved, That a Legislative Department
veported progress, and asked leave 'to sit again ;
which was granted.
formed by two Branches, a Senate and
The Convention then adjourned to Monday at 11
House of Representatives, each having a
o'clocki
negative upen the other, is most congenial
to the interests habits and manners of this
people as well as most conforunable to ap-
MONDAY, Nov. 27.
proved axioms of Poliey; and that any alter-
ations in the formation of the department is
The Convention was called to order at 11 o'clock,
and the journal of Saturday was read.
wholly unnecessary,and would be highly in-
The Convention then resolved itself into a coñ- expedient.
mittee of the whole upon the unfinished business of This amendment was adopted 291 to 6.
Saturday.
The Report of the committee on the sixth-Reso-
The Committee took up the second resolution re- lution, embracing that part of the constitution
ported by the select committee upon the part of the which relates to the Secretary, Treasurer, &c. was
Constitution relating the to General Court, viz. taken up and read.
Resolved, That the Constitution ought to
Resolved, That that it is expedient to alter
be amended so as to render more certain the
and amend the constitution of this Commons
time in wbich the Governor shall return any
wealth, by striking out the words - Notaries
bill or resolve to which he may refuse his.ap-
Public and Naval Officers” in the first article
probation, by adding to the second article of
of the fourth section of the second Chapter
the first section these words ;- unless the
of thre second pari.
General Court by their adjournmont sliall Mr. WARD said the effect of the proposed al-
prevent its return, in which case it shall not teration was so obvious that no effort would be
be a law."
necessary to explain it to the. house, and he would
Mr. DANA, of Groton, saiâ the select Commit- not take up time by going fully into the reasons in
tee were induced to report this resolution, in con- support of it. The situation of the state at the time
sequence of what took place in the year 1809 or of the adoption of the constitution, was such that
1810. A bill respecting state affairs was passed
a Naval Officer was considered necessary, but at
by both houses of the Legislature towards the
present the exclusive right of raising a revenue hy
slose of the session, and sent ty the governor for a duty on imports is given to the government of the
his approbation. After the usljournmcut of the Upited States, and consequently no state officer of
Legislature, it was observed that this bill was not that description is necessary. None has been e-
mentioned in the list of acts passed, but it was sup-
lected hy the legislature of this state, since thie
posed that it had been approved of by the governor.
adoption of the Constitution of the United States.
At the next session however, the bill was return- The committee had therefore thought the provision
eid by the governor with his objections, and the for the appointment of this officer should be struck
House of Representatives refused to act upon it,
out of the
Constitution. In relation to the appoint-
of the ground of its not being constitutionally be-
ment of Notaries Public by the two branches of the
fore them, not having been returned within five days. | legislature, there had been suffieient experience of
It was no doubt the intention of the framers of the the inconvenience of the niode or appointment
Constitution, that tlic Governor should cxamine the delay and expense occaeioued by it--and the
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
55
a
}
1
impossibility of obtaining the information necessary been under discussion before proceeding to the
Was much consideration of other questions.
better that they should be appointed in the same Mr. STORY, of Salem, rose to movè ad amend-
way as justices of the peace and other officers of ment to the resolution under consideration by ad-
government are appointed --The form in which ding to it, the words i Comnissary General be-
the proposition should be stated in the resolution, fore Notaries Public. His reason for the amend-
was matter for consideration. He thought it ought mentwas short and would take ap but little time,
to depend upon the form in which the amendments By the clause as it Bow stands, it was imperative
in general are to be made. If the Consitutior was tliat the General Court should appoipt the officer
to remain as 'at present, and the amendments, in- named. He thought it was more-fit that it should
stead of being incorporated into the body, of it, be left to the Legislature to decide whether the
were to be appended, in the form in which the appointment if rendered necessary, should be
amendments are made to tbe Constitution of the made by the Governour and Council or by the
United States, which he thought would be the most Legislature. The appointment was pot distinguisha
proper mode, the resolution perhaps. should have able in its nature front others which are now re-
stated the proposed amendment in a different form. quired to be made by the executive. The Govern,
He doubted the power of the Convention, under the our as the head of the military of the Commons
act under which they were sitting, to abolish the wealth, must be better acquainted with the quali-
old Constitution and proceed to form a new one fications necessary for the office, and with the
as a substitute; but it was their duty to preserve characiers of candidates for it than the members of
the trunk, and engraſt upon it such alterations, if the Legislature would be.
any, as they should think' expedient, and to submit The council from the nature of their duties have
the specific alterations to the people, for their a- an opportunity of acquiring the same sort of
doption or rejection. If the proposed alterations knowledge. He thought it therefore imporladt.
are not adopted, the ronstitution will stand as it that this officer, whenever required, should be ap-
did before. It might be proper that the amend- pointed ander the responsibility of the Command-
ment should stand as it was proposed by the reso- er in Chief. The office may become necessary
lution. la declaring that certain words be struck whes the legislature are not in session ; a vacancy
out of the article, is understood merely that they may occur during the recess of the legislature and
remain ipoperative; but if it was intended that there may be ab imperious necessity for the ser-
they should be literally struck out, the amendment rices of such an officer. It may happen that an
could be stated in a better form.
extra session of the legislature should be rendered
Mr. BOND, of Boston, asked for information necessary for the appointment of this officer, or
of the propriety of retaining the words “Commis- that the appointment should be made wine or ten
sary General" in the Constitution. He understood months after there is occasion for his services.-
that, at present, 'po such officer was appointed by There was another reason for objecting to this
the two branches of the legislature, and it was not
probable that they would be required. If such an
whicier
officer should at any time be required, it could be sponsibility that is felt in making the appointment,
provided for by law, and in such case it might be Where the appointment is left with the governor,
thought expedient to give the appointment to the he is necessarily responsible for it, but when made
Governor and Council.
by the legislature, the responsibility is so divided
Mr. WARD, said that it would be a as not to be felt. Those who are acquainted with
useless Jabor to examine the whole constitution the manger of making appointments in convena
arid determine whether a word was to be found tion of the two houses of the legislatore, know
that could be struck out. He did not know wheth- how extremely dificult it is to obtain the informa-
er the Office of Commissary General was necessa- tion necessary
for acting with any discretion, and
ry-it might possibly become so, and iherefore it that it is a mode of appointment the least fitted of
was useful that there should beprovision for it in any that could be devised for giving satisfaction.
the constitution--if it never became necessary, the Three fourths of the members of the legislature
provision for it was harmless. If the constitution cannot know any thing about the qualifications of
were to be now wholly new modelled, it might, the candidate for the office. He saw no reason
perhaps, be found, that this provision was super- / why this officer should be appointed in a different
fuous. But under present circumstances, he pre- manner from the Adjutant, and Quarter Master
ferred letting it remain to spending time in debat- Generals. The legislature would act under the
ing whether it should be struck out.
want of personal responsibility inherent-in large
Mr. AUSTIN, of Charlestown, thought it would bodies; it would be most difficult for them to judge
be expedient to extend the time limiting the period of the qualifications for the office, and in case of
of office, of Treasurer and Receiver General. The the breaking out of a war or insuri ection it might
person who filled the office was required to give up be necessary to call them together for the purpose
his time and attention ; and if he was faithful to his of making a single appointment.
trust, he became, by several years continuance in Mr. WARD, of Bostou, said he thought it
office, the best qualified for discharging its duties. was thrown upon those who would make any par-
He approved of the general principle of rotation in ticular alteration in the coustitution, to show that
office; but in relation to this office the principle some evil now existed which would be removed by
he thought was.less applicable than to most others. the proposed alteration. In regard to the appoint-
He should move to amend the article by substitut- ment of Notaries Public, it was the general senti-
ing seven or eight years for five, the present limita- ment there was a great inconvenience in the prese
tion.
ent mode. But with respect to Commissary Gen-
Mr. RUSSELL, of Boston, rose to a question of eral, he had heard of no objection from any quar-
order. He said that the subject under considera- ter--no such officer had been appointed for many
tion was the adoption of the resolution reported years, and no inconvenience had been felt. His
by the committee, and the debate should be con- principal objection to the alteration proposed, was
ined to the question of accepting that resolution. an aversion to make any change where it was not
The CHARMAN said that the whole report necessary. He thought the proposed amendment
was referred to the Committee and was under unnecessary, but he was not very tenacious of his
consideration. It might be best to take the sense opinion.
f the Committee upon the resolution which had Mr. BLAKE, of Boston, was opposed tothe **
:
1.
56
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
i
1
:
:
mendment for this general reason, thạt he was re- vision would be necessary in relation to the ap-
solved to assent to no amendment, the tendency of pointment of Notaries than that proposed in the
which should impair in any degree, the republican resolution. Taking away the power of appoint-
form of this government. The Commissary Gener- ment from the Legislature would not give it to the
al was an officer of great importance and responsi- | Executive.
bility. He was entrusted with the disbursement of Mr. WARD said that the consequence would
large sums of money, and was invested with exten- be inevitable, that a Turther amendment should be
sire discretionary powers. There was to be ob- made in that part of the Constitution which grants
served in every letter of the constitution great cau- powers to the Executive. But the committee who
tion in the distribution of the powers of govern- reported this resolution did not consider that part
ment. The appointment even of Notaries Public, of the measure as coming within their particular
an office of comparatively little importance, was province. But he presumed it would be provided
pot left to the executive, but was granted to the for by the proper committee. .
two branches of the legislature. 'Major-generals Mr, VARNUM, of Dracut, said that the com
were also appointed by the legislature, and he pre- mittee who had under consideration that part of
sumed that no alteration with respect to them would the Constitution which relates to the powers and
be proposed. Appointments to offices similar to duties of the Executive, and who had not yet re-
this in the government of the United States, were ported, had taken this subject joto consideration,
not made by the Executive alone, but required the and would report a proposition for giving the powe
consent of the Senate. He was aware that the re-
er of appointing Notaries Public to the Executive.
sponsibility of the individuals who unite in making Mr. PARKER suggested for the
consideration of
the appointment was diminished by,their number;- the committee, that in his opinion farther provision
but this argument, if it was of any weight, went too should be made for the duration of this office, and
far, it might extend to all the duties of government. that the term of office should be the same as that
He would not advocate any change for which there of Justice of the Peace. The duties of the office
was not shown to be some necessity,
were similiar-some preparation for it was necesa
Mr. DEARBORV, of Roxbury, said that in all sary, and he hoped that provision would be made,
governments, the Commissary General was one of for its continuance for the term of seven years,
the general staff. Generals of armies have the ap- subject to removal for improper conduct,
pointment of their staff in all countries; they are. Mr, WARD said that he had prepared a reso
responsible for their conduct, and for this reason lution for effecting this object, which he should
should have the control over them. The Adjutant take a proper opportunity of submitting for the
and Quarter Master Generals are in this state apă consideration of the Convention.
pointed by the commander in chief, and why the The question on the adoption of the resolution
appointment of Commissary Generals was reserved was taken, and passed in the affirmative.
to the Legislature he said, was to him inexplicable. Mr. AUSTIN, of Charlestown, wished to have
It had been said that the Commissary General was the constitution perfect, not only in substance, but
entrusted with the expenditure of large sums of likewise in logic, style and taste. He therefore
money--so was the Adjutant General; one supplies moved, that it be amended in the 2d chap. 4th sec.
arms and munitions of war, the other provisions, 1st art. by substituting " in joint body” for “ in one
and the expenditure for the former object was room," so as to read; " The Secretary, &c: shall
greater than for the latter. The public are dispos- be chosen annually by joint ballot of the Senators
ed to throw censureupon the Commanderin Chlef; and Representatives in joint bodky.” He proposed a
and to take from him the means of reflecting glory further amendment by striking out all the subse.
on himself, and honor upon his country, would be quent part of the same article, considering it bad
doaling unjustly.
logic,
Mr. APTHÖRP, of Boston, was in favor of the The gentleman was informed from the chair that
resolution as it stood-he said if we were likely to his motion was irregular; that he might move to a:
be much in a state of war he should agree with mend the report of the select committee by adding
the gentleman last speaking. But for a time of a resolution, bụt he could not move to amend the
peace, the present provision was not objectional constitution.
ble. He thought it inexpedient to take away from The gentleman varied his motion accordingly.
the legislature the appointment which might not Mr. L, LINCOLN, of Worcester, said he was
be wanted--in time of war the office would be opposed to the amendment; that he came to the
įmportant. The Commissary would have the convention with the intention to apply a strong hand
control of large sums of money, and to give the ap- to the weak parts of the constitution, but not to-der
pointment to the Governor, might be imparting to molisha the fabric. What could be the object of the
him too great a proportion of power.
gentleman from Charlestown?
merely to gratify a
Mr. STURGIS, of Boston, said that striking fastidious taste! It was chimerical to think of satisfy,
out the clause did not necessarily give the power ing every member of that assembly in this respect,
of appointment to the Governor. It was not nec- With regard to the clause which prevents the same
essary to have any provision. If it was left qut en- person from being eligible more than five years
tirely, it would be competent for the legislature to successively as Trcasurer, in order that the Con-
provide for the appointment of the officer, if they monwealth might be assured, that the monies re-
should see fit to establish the office.
maining in the public treasury, upon the settlement
Mr. HOYT, of Deerfield, said that the law of and liquidation of accounts, were their property,
the United States for the government of the Mi- he thought the logic was good enough.
litia did not provide for the appointment of any | ple understood it; it had received a practical con- ,
such officer. He was in favour of striking out the struction. It was one of the most useful features
words. If the U.S. government should require in the constitution. The treasurer's office was one
the appointment of such an officer, the legislature of high responsibility, and we had no security
could direct the mode of appointment.
without a provision of this sort. We had
The question was taken on adopting the amend- had
to regret that the times for
ment proposed by Mr. Story, and passed in the accounting
frequent. It
affirmative.
was highly important that the public monreg
The question being stated on adoptivg the reso- should be counted from time to time. There should
lution as amended,
be some niode of ascertaing what money was in the,
Mr. PARKER (the President] inquired wheth- treasury, and none could be better than requiring
or it had been considered that some further pro- one Treasurer to hand it over to a successor, whe
l
The peo-
occasion
were
not
more
1
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
577
.
would be cautious for what sums he became re- posed to require by a constitutional provision what
sponsible. If the office were continued for a longer || is now done by law.
number of years or for life, the Treasurer, would The question was taken on Mr. Morton's amend,
make out a fair statement on paper, while in fact mendment and decided in the negative, 107 to 250..
the Treasury might be bankrupt. Unless members Mr. QUINCY said that if the olą constitution of
came there with a fanciful desire for novelties, he 1780 was to be préserved, he could see no reason
trusted such alterations as the gentleman proposed why the chapter should not remain. He should
would not prevail.
prefer retaining it although it was a dead letter.
Mr. WARD expressed surprise, that when we Mr. PARKER said if the chapter was expunga
had such frequent examples of cashiers and ather ed, it would not be necessary to make a new draft.
persons embezzling monies, any member should of the copstitution. The amendments would be
have thought of proposing such an amendment.-- printed at the end of thė. constitution as it now
There was no other mode than the one contained stands.
in the constitution of calling people to account, so The question was taken on the resolution as re®
as to prevent evasion. If the Treasurer were to ported by the committee, and.carried in the affirm-
continue, he would only have to borrow money of
ative.
his friends to shew to the inspectors of his accounts, The committee then rose, and reported that they:
to be returned as soon as the examination is over. had agreed to the resolutions reported by the select
The term of five years was long enough. There committee on that part of the constitution relating
was notsuch a dearth of talents and integrity among to the General Court, with an amendment that
us that we could not find men suitable to fill the they had agreed to the resolution reported by the
office of Treasurer. Besides, by an intermission for select committee on that part of the constitution
one year, a Treasurer became eligible again for which relates to the choice of a Secretary, &c. with
five years more,
an amendment and that they had agreed to the
The question was taken upon Mr. Austiv's motion resolution reported by the select committee on that
and decided in the negative, but few voting in favor part of the constitution relating to the choice of
pfit.
Delegates to Congress, without amendment.
The Committee then took up the report of the
On motion of Mr. FAY, it was ordered that, the
select commitſee
on the part of the Constitution reports lie on the table.
which relates to Delegates to Congress,
Mr. RUSSELL, of New-Beford, had leavo ofi-
The question before the committee was upon the
absence on account of sickness in his family.
following Resolve, viz. :--Resoired, That the fourth Adjourned.
Chapter of the second pa'' of the Constilution of
:
this Commonwealth, having become inapplicable
to the existing condition of the State of Massacho-
zetts, ought to be expunged therefrom.
TUESDAY, Nov.28.--The Convention met at ten
Mr. AUSTIN, of Boston, said he agreed with o'clock, and after prayers by the Rey Mr. Jenks,
the gentleman of the select committee in the reas- and the reading of yesterday? jovrpal-
ons which they gave for expunging this chapter, but
Mr. PICKMAN, of Salein, from the committee,
he was opposed to the resolution which they had on that part of the constitution relating to the Lien-
reported, and wished to make an amendment. tevant Governor and Council, made ihe following
Mr. 'AUSTIN then moved to amend the
report:
resolution reported by the committee on the eighth
The Committee to whom was referred. so much
resolution so as to provide that the Representatives
of the Constitution of this Commonwealth as is con-
of this Commonwealth in the United States and tained in the second article of the second chapter of.
the electors of President and Vice President of the the second part, and respects the Lieut. Governor;
Uuited States shall from time to time be chosen by also so much as is contained in the third section of
the people in such convenient districts as the Le- the same chapter, and respects the Council and
gislature shall by law provide, and that the Legis- the manner of settling clections by ille Legislature,
lature of this Commonwealth shall be required
to take into consideration the expediency and pro-
next after every apportionnent of Representatives | pricly of inaking any, and if any, what alterations
by the Congress of the United States to provide by
and amendments therein, and report thereon; har.
law for dividing the Commonwealth' into ' districts | ing attended to the duty assigned them, respectfully
for the choice of not more than two Representa- 1 report that in their opinion, these branches of the
tives or Electors in any one district, which law
Government to which their attention has been cal-
shall not be altered until after a new apportion- || led, have been found to answer the important pur-
ment shall be made by the Congress of thie United
poses for which they were established. The com-
States,
inittee therefore do not think it expedient to recain,
A motion was made that the Committee should mend any essential alterations thelein. The amend-
rise ; and after some debate was decided in the ments which they have agreed to propose are such
negative 137 in favor-236 against.
as appear to them to be adapted to the present state
The question on adopting the amendment was of the Commonwealth ; to what seems to have be-
then taken and decided in the negative.
come an established practice, that of final; clect-
Mr. MORTON of Dorchester, was opposed to
ing the Council from among the people a large;
having the wbole chapter expunged, and he moved
and to meet what may be the ultimate decisions of
to amend the resolution by striking out the words
the convention respecting the religious test and tie
expunged therefrom,” and inserting a provision commencement of the political year. With these
that the chapter be so altered as to dircct that the observations the committee respectfully sulinit the
Senators and Representatives of this Common- li following resolutious to the consideration of the
wealth in the Congress of the United States, when
Convention.
duly chosen, shall have their coininissions under
BENJAMIN PICKMAN, Chairman,
the hand of the governor and the great seal of the 1. Resolved, That it is expedient and pro-
Commonwealth, and attested by the Secretary,
Mr. PARKER asked if there was any necessity
per to alter and aménd the Constitution of
for such a provision-whether the Senators and
ihis Cominonwealth by striking out in the
Representatives are not already furnished with cer- Arst article of the second section of the se-
tificates of their election, which are satisfactory. cond chapter thereof, relating to the Lien-
Mr. MORTON said his object was to retain the
tenant Governor, the following words--- in
chapter iu the constitution, His amendment pro-
$
58
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
on the
He was
point of religion, property and residence in every time they came round gave rise to discussion
the Commonwealth.”
and to soine degree of embarrassment and confus-
2. That it is expedient and proper to a-
jon. He first considered the question in relation
to our own constitution, Gentlemen had expres-
merid the same by striking out in the first
sed a reluctance to change any part of the Consti-
article of the third section and same chapter tution. He regarded it with as much respect and
relating to the Council, &c. the word "nine? affection as any one--but he did not think it too
and inserting “ seven" also the word "fire" sacred to be touched. It was not like the ark of
the covenant which he that touched should die.
änd inserting " four.'
The question whether it should be touched had
8. That ië is expedient and proper to a- been settled by the people. They had said it might
mend the same by striking out the whole of require amendment, and had for that purpose chos-
the second article of the same section and in- en delegates to examine it. It was their duty to
serting Seven Counsellors shall be annu-
examine it, to see what was sound, and what was
ally chosen from among the people, at large | the ship. Some gentlemen had expressed a reluc-
unsound, and to take away every rotten plank in
- day of by the joint | tance to reject even the decayed parts.
ballot of the Senators and Representatives not under the influence of any such feelings. The
assembled in one room.'
old landmarks, where our borders were enlarged,
4. That it is expedient and proper to a-
were of little consequence except as matters of cu-
riosity to the antiquary. He would in all questions
mend the same by striking out in the fourth
in relation to the constition imitate the spirit of the
article of the same section the word “ two" i enlightened men who framed it,actaccording to their
and inserting "one" ; also the word "district" || best judgment of what was useful, and if new and
and inserting “ county.
important principles have been taught us by expe-
5. That it is expedient and proper to ta-
rience, it is our duty to put them into the constitution.
He said that when he introduced his motion yester-
mend the same by striking out in the seventh day, it had been objected by the gentleman from
article of the same section the words 6 the Salem, (Mr. Justice Story) that it was beyond the
last Wednesday in May” and inserting the power of this convention to adopt this regulation,
day of
because inconsistent with the constitution of the U.
States. He listened with great attention to any sug-
This report having been read was referred to a
committee of the whole, and made the order of the
gestion from that very learned gentleman, and upon
day for tomorrow at eleven o'clock.
all questions of law he had been accustomed to re-
The reports of the select committ's yesterday
gard his opinions with extreme respect. Whatever
he said came with that autho 'ily that was apt to
acted upon in committee of the whole were then
crush all opinions that came from a humbler source.
taken up. The amendments agreed to in commit-
tee were adopted by the convention. The resolves
But the most learned judges may err. Mr. A.
ceeded to examine the constitution of the United
were then severally read a first time and ordered
for the second reading tomorrow at ten o'clock.
States, for the purpose of inquiring what the rights
of the states under it were. In the second section
Mr. AUSTIN, of Boston, said, that yesterday in
of that instrument it is directed that the members of
committee of the whole he offered an amendment
the House of Representatives shall be chosen " by
to the report of the select committee' which was
not received. He then declined to press
the people of the several, states;" and in the
the
prop.
osition, and he now rose to renew it with a trifting
fourth section, that " the times, places and
of - holding elections for Senators
variation. He therefore offered the following res-
and Representatives, shall be prescribed in
olution.
each state by the Legislature thereof." No part
Resolved, That the constitution ought to
of this power was proposed by his amendment
be so amended as to provide that the Repre- to be taken away. The time of the election
sentatives of this Commonwealth in the was still to be settled by the Legislature, as well as
Congress of the United States and so many
the place of election, whether by large districts
of the Electors of President and Vice Presi-
meeting in a single place, as is the practice
in some of the Southern States, or in towns.
dent as are equal to the number of the Rep- - The manner of holding the elections is also
resentatives aforesaid shall be chosen by the left to the Legislature to determnine, and without
people in such convenient districts as the such a law as by this proposition is required to be
Legislature shall direct, and the Legislature passed, the election could not be held. The pro-
of this Commonwealth shall be required at
position is only that we shall direct the Legislature
in the exercise of the power which is given them
their session next after every apportionment | by the constitution of the United States. The pro-
of Representatives by the Congress of the vision for the choice of Electors of President and
United States to provide by law by dividing | quires
that." each state shall appoint in such man-
Vice President, is similar. The constitution re-
the Comnionwealth into Districts for the
per as the Legislature thereof way direct, a nun-
choice of not more than two Represen- ber of Electors, &c.” The Législature, if this pro-
tatives or Electors in any one District, I position is adopted, will still exercise all the rights '
and such law shall not be repealed or alter- here given to it, in the manner in which they have
ed until after a new apportiopment of repre-
beon heretofore exercised. We only propose to
limit them in the exercise of their discretion. Who
sentatives by the Congress of the United
can question the right of the people to instruct the
States.
Legislature in the manuer of exercising their dis-
Mr. AUSTIN said that the proposition was one cretion. The Legislature are bound to exercise .
of great importance in priociple, and whether it all their powers under the direction of the consti-
should be adopted or not was a question which re- tution. The people possess the supreme power.
quired deliberate attention. The object of it was they have a right to iinpose this restriction upon the
to decide finally an important question which was Legislature, and the Legislature will have no right
continually occurring in the legislature. All other to question their authority. The people have a right
elections except those embraced in this proposi- to instruct the members of their Legislature, and
tion were fixed by permanent laws, while these, instructions given in a permanent instrument will
manner
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
59
be as binding as if giren for each particular occa- districts are settled let it be for' ten years. Let
sion. Congress would have no right to object to this there be no room for suspicion that the mode of
limitation of the powers of the Legislature. The election is determined upon from party mogvesi-
right of choosing electors is a state right, and con- For the reasons which he had given, he thought
gress has nothing to do with it. This is not a new that the convention had the right, and possessing
opinion. It is a principle that has been acted upon. the right, that it was expedient to adopt the regulam
He cited a case in which an electoral vote, which tion which he had proposed. If he was not cor-
had, produced great excitement was remonstrated rect in his views, lie had discharged a duty in aot-
against ; a remonstrance was not received by con- ing according to his own sense of what was right.
gress on the ground that the right of choosing elect- aud expedient in this case.
ors was a state right, and the remonstrance should Mr BLISS, of Springfield, inquired whether this
have been made at home. It was impossible that were to be considered as an original proposition.
congress should refuse to receive the vote that He thought it should be so considered. If so, it
should be given, on the ground of interference with should, by the rules of the convention, be first dis-
the powers of thie legislature in directing the man- cussed in committee of the whole.
ner of election. He therefore concluded that The President said that the proposition was that
there was a perfect authority in the Comnion- same in substance with that proposed by the mover
wealth, to direct, in their constitution, how the in committee of the whole yesterday, and as such
Legislature should proceed in fixing the time place, might be renewed in Convention.
and manner of choosing, Representatives and Mr. STORY, of Salem, said—that in rising to
Electors. Why then should it not be exercised ? address the Convention, he had not the presump-
These were popular rights, and belonged to the tion to consider himself in any other character than
people. They liad a right to direct. The mode of that of a citizen and delegate-he had no right to
election proposed. was one which would give the clain and did not claim for himself, any official au-
sense of the country in small districts. Although thority, and his opinion could have and ought to
the majority of the people must govern, the mino- have no other weight than that of one zealous for
rity have rights which ought not to be trampled the public service and addressing the judgments of
upon. When Electors and Representatives are his fellow-citizens. Whatever his errors might be
chosen in large districts, the rights of the minori- in another place, (and errors without doubt he had
ly are destroyed. It is only by dividing the committed) they were not subject to revision here.
state into small portions that there can be Whatever errors he might here commit, he was sure
a fair expression of public opinion. For ob- will meet with indulgence, as the opinions of one
tąining uniformly this expression of opinion, earnest at least to promote the public interest, and
he contended the people had a right to require the like the other members of the convention, solicitous
legislature to divide the Conmonwealth into small
to perpetuate our public rights and liberties. When
districts. In regard to electors there was a peculiar yesterday the learned and eloquent gentleman from
propriety in doing this. The election was sometimes Boston presented the proposition now before the
a source of great irritation, For want of such a convention for consideration, he had supposed that
provision, the state of New York in 1788 lost her it had not been examined with his usual.delibera-
electoral yote, by a disagreement about the mode tion. I find anyself, said Mr.S. under a mistake; and
of election. He referred also to the great agita- lis ingenious speech requires from me a defence
tion in 1801, when a decision on which the elec- of the doctrine which I then ventured to suggest.
tion of president was supposed to depend, was car- He was opposed to the amnendment proposed by the
ritd in the Legislature of Pennsylvania by.a single gentlenan, because it was contrary to the constitu-
vote to the election in this state in 1805 and in tion of the United States; and if it were pot so, ho
1812, and contended that under the circumstances should deem its adoption wholly inexpedient. It
of those cases, which he stated, much difficulty and was perfectly clear that the constitution of the U.
popular excitement would have been prevented by States was the supremc law of the land, and in
a permanent provision like that which he now pro- terms it was so declared in the instrument itself.
posed. It was said that in this election the state It was not within the legitimate power of the Leg-
should have one voice. It was true it should have islature of this Commonwealth in its ordinary ca-
but one voice, if the people said so. It was always pacity; it was not within the legitimate power of
safe to trust the people. If they were unanimous this Convention, to riolate any of the provisions of
in their opinion, the vote should be unanimous. that constitutions. We are bound to obey it and
When the venerable gentleman who was chosen should abstain from all exercise of authority, wliich
the first president of the convention was candidate in any respect narrows or contracts the powers de-
for the presideucy, the electors of this state were legated in it by the people of the U. Stâtes The
chosen in districts, and vet their vote was'unani. gentleman would not differ from him in respect to
mous. It was not a sufficient objection that other This doctrine. The question then was, whether we
i states might not adopt the mode of election. If it have a right to insert ín our constitution a provision
was good in the abstract it was a sufficient reason which controls or destroys a discretion, which may
for our adopting it. It might be useful to us if other be, nay which must be exercised by the Legisla- '
states did not adopt it. It would be useful for this ture in virtue of powers confided to it by the consti-
state 'to set the example of adopting the best inode. tution of the United States. The 4th section of the
It has been the course in this state to choose the first article of the constitution of the U., States de-
representatives in listriets. They ouglit always to clares, “ that the times, places and vagner of hold-
be so choseri, and taken from different parts of the ing elections for frenators and Representatives,
state. But propositions have been made to change - shall be prescribed by the Legislature thereof; but
the mode of election. He did not wish to sco the Congress may at any time make or alter such
these propositions renewed. Important elections regulations, excopt as to the places of choosing
of themselves afforded grounds enough of excite- Senators." "Here an express provision was made for
ment, without that which arose from a difference the runner of croosing. Representatives, lay the
of opinion about the mode of election. The con- State Legislatures. They have an unlimited dis-
monwealth had been at times agitated by contend- cretion in the subject. They may provide for an
ing parties. There was now a calm-but the storm election in single districts, in districts sending more
might burst out again. Let us take advantage of than one, or hy a gencral ticket for the whole state.
the favorable moment to settle an important prin- Here is a gencral discretion=-a power of choice.
ciple. Let it be understood that representatives What is the proposition: on the table? It is to limit
and clectors are to be choscu by distsicts. When this discretion--so leave no choice to ihe Legisla-
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tare-to compel representatives to be chosen injnow proposed is to perpetuate our own humilia-
districts. In other words, to compel them to be tion. Why does Virginia (I speak of her with ges:
chosen in a specific manner-excluding all others. pect,) why does Virginia. choose her Electors for
Was not this plainly a violation of the constitution ? President by a general ticket? Because she is de-
Does it not affect to control the Legislature in the termined that her Electors shall move in a solid
exercise of its legitimate powers ? Does it not column in the direction of the majority of the state.
terfere with the superintending authority of Con- If chosen in districts, as now proposed, lier Elec-
gress? The gentleman says and says truly, that lors would be composed of persons of different po-
the Legislature will probably follow the rule pre- litical opinions. When New York chooses Elec-
sented by his propositions if it is adopted by the tors by a Legislative appointment, is it not for pre-
Convention and ratified by the people of the Com- cisely the sanke reason-to preserve her legitimate
monwealth. This, said Mr. S. is precisely my ob- influence in the union, and to mark her vote witły
jection to it. The members of the Legislature are the stainp of the majority ? I do not say that this is
under oath to support the constitution of the State. the right method of choice. But it is one which
They are also under oath to support the constitu- the constitution authorizes, and it has been practis-
tion of the United States. Will it not be a viola- ed by various states in the union, whenever the
lion of their baths to bind themselves not to choose exigency of the times made its vote of importance
representatives in any manner that the constitution in the elevation of a President. Why should we
of the U. States allows, except that stated in thc give up the same privilege? Upon retaining this
gentleman's proposition, when they are satisfied right in the most ample manner, may depend the
that the public interest requires another manner of choice of a President. Yet we are now asked to
chòice? They may bring their consciences into bind ourselves to a mode of choice which would
jeopardy by such proceedings. It would be a di- neutralize our votes and place us in the same situa-
rect and manifest departure from their duty. Again, tiou as if we had no vote. It seems to me this is a
the second article and first section of the constitu- sacrifice which we ought not to make; and that
tion of the United States provides, that such state sound policy ought to induce us to yield up no privi-
shall appoint in such manner as the Legislature lege which the constitution of the U.States secures
thereof may direct a number of Electors cqual to to us. The gentleman suggests that the Congress
the whole number of Senators and Representatives of the U. States have no right to ingyire into the
to which the state may be entitled in Congress." manner, in which Elcctors are chosen'; and there.
Here a discretion as to the choice of Electors, is fore that we may safely adopt the mode now pre-
given to the Legislature. It is unlimited-yet the scribed. Sir, I doubt exceedingly this proposition
proposition before us gocs directly to destroy this in the latitude in which it is stated -1 do not know
freedom of choice, and compels the Legisla- that Congress have ever decided that they have no
ture to resign all manner of choice but one. authority to inquire behind the returns made to theaz
It assumes a control over the Legislature, whicli of the Electors. Cases of fraud, or of uncou-
the constitution of the United States does not justi- || stitutional appoinments of Electors may arise, ia
fy. - It is bound to exercise its authority according which it might be fit and proper, and perhaps noc-
to its own views of public policy and principle; essary for the public safety,, to make this inquiry:
and yet this proposition conspels it to surrender all The casc alluded to by the gentleman from Boston,
discretion. In my humble judgment, said Mr. S. was not, I believe, a decision made on this point.--
and I speak with great deference for the conven- The question was not decided, because it was not
tion, it is a direct and palpable infringement of the necessary in that case; for whether the votes were
constitutional provisions to which I have referred. counted or not, the choice of President would not
He proceeded to consider ine policy of the meas, have been altered.
ure, even supposing it were constitutional. He was Mr. WEBSTER wished to make one or two re-
free to declare that his present opinion was upon marks before the gentleman who moved the amend-
the best consideration he could give the subject that ment replieceNot lo enter into the argument on
2 uniform manner of choosing Representatives and the question of our right to make such a provision,
Electors hy districts throughout the whole of the there were two considerations on the expediency of
U. States would he a great improvement in the na- it which had weight with him. The first was, the
tional constitution. He perfectly concurred in the general inexpedicney of connecting the stute Çan-
gentleman's seasoning on this subject; and if he stitution with provisions of the national Constitus
held any station in which his voice could aid such tior). He thought it tended to no good conse-
a measure, he would most earnestly and zealously quence, towundertake to regulate or enforce rights
offer it. But said he the question now before is is and duties arising under tiie General Government
not of this nature. It gocs to liniit us to a particu- by other means than the powers of that Govern-
lar mode of choice, leavingall the rest of ihe Unit- nient itsell. He would wish that the Constitution
ed States free to adopt any other. What would be of the Slate should have as little connection with
the consequence of this measure ? That on the the Constitution of the United States as possi-
most mportant occasions we might be deprived of ble. Some of the States have sometimes ender-
all the influence to which our talents and charac- toured to come in aid of the General Government,
ter, and numbers, justły ertitle us. It has been and to enforce its laws by their own laws. State
'my melancholy duty in other times to be a specta- statutes had been passed to compel compliance
tor in the national council of the evils of our domes- witli statutes of Congress, and imposing penaltics,
iic dissentions. We have had the misfortune to be for the transgression of those statures. This had
placed there in it neutralized situation, o't repre- heen found to be very embarrassing, and, as he
ventatives being divided so nearly between the two thought, mischievous ; because its jendency was
great politcal parties, that we scarcely had the
to mix up the two Governments
, and destroy the
means of aiding or defeating any important meas- real essential distinction which exists between
I love my native state, and shall never-them. The true constitutional, harnionious move-
cease to feel a deep and affectionate interest in its ment of the two Governments was as much inter-
public character until I cease to exist. The talents, rupted by their alliance as by their hostility. Tliey
the virtues, the soud education and practical hab- were ordained to inore in different spheres, and
its of our citizens entitle then to an elevated rank when they came together, be it for the
for the purpose of
and inflaonice in directing the destinies of this na- mutual harm,or mutual help, the system is deranged..
tiop. What can be more humiliating or mortifying | Whatsoever was enjoined on the Legislature, by
than to see this inflácnce lost by our divisions ? The the Constitution of the U.S. the Legislature was
wild necesary conscquence of the weasure bound in perforin :- and he thought it would not
t t
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bé wèil by a provision of this Constitution, to reg: because the Federal Constitution ordains that
uglate the mode in which the Legislature should the Legislature shall direct as to the time, place
exercise a power conferred on it by another Con- and
manner of holding the
,
Štitution. The other consideration wlieh pressed By this proposition the Legislature will continue
on his mind was this. He was in favor of a gen- to direct. This amendment is only advisory of
eral system of districting, throughout the United the manner in which the Legislature shall exercise
States; for the choice of Electors He supposed its discretion. It is not necessary that the discres
the gentleman who moved this Resolution held tion should be unlimited; nor does the Federal
that to be desirable. But that could only be Constitution require it to be free from the influ.
brought about by an amendment of the U: States
ence contemplaced in this amendment:
Constitution. Such an amendment; it was well The question was then taken on Mi: Austin's
known; had been repeatedly proposed in
Con- amendinent and decided in the negative. It was
gress.-t had, he believed, more than once passed then ordered that the report of the committee
by the Constitutional majority, in the Senate. He should have a second reading tomorrow at 10
hoped it would also pass the House of Represen- o'clock,
tatives.--But he could think of nothing more likely Mr. QUINCY moved to take up the regolution
to have an influence to preventit than the adoption | respecting the creating of a permanent fund out of
of this nieasure. The inducement which the Repre- the lands of the Caminonviealth in the State of
sentatives of one State, in Congress, have to give Maine for the support of public schools, reported
up the power,(and it was often an important power) by the committee on that part of the constitution
bf giving an undivided vote and voice, in the choice which relates to the University of Cambridge, and
or President, was; that other states would give it the encouragement of literature ; but it Heing suga
up also. But if other states voluntarily restrained gested that some of the select Coinmittees were de
themselves; by their own constitutions, so that in sirous of meeting, the motion was withdrawa.
fact they should have nothing to give up, the in- The Convention then adjourned.
ducement was at an end. If every state in the U-
nion, except two or three of the largest, were to
bind themselves to choosë Electors by Districts,
and these two or three were at liberty to choose
by general ticket, or to appoint by the legislature,
WEDNESDAY, Nov. 29.
every one must see how far this would increase The Convention was called to order at 10 o'clock;
the actual and efficient power of those large states. and attended prayers made by the Rev. Mr Pala
In short, as far as it is an object to possess power in frey.
the Union, it is the interest of every state,that every After the journal of yesterday was read, ihe rest
other state should be restained to District elections
olution respecting the Constitution of the Legislao
of Electors; and herself left free. When we,
ture by two branches, reported by the Committee
therefore; tie up our own hands in this particular, ; on that part of the Constitution which relates to the
by our own constitution; we do that, precisely, General Court; was read a second time and passed:
which those who wish a relative increase of their The second resolution reported by the same.com
own power; would desire. He was afraid, in 30
mittee, respecting the alteration of the time for the
acting; we should not entitle ourselves to much
meeting of the Legislature from the last Wednes.
character for foresight or sagacity: As 'political day in May to the first Wednesday in January, was
men, desirous of retaining only the just, but all the read a second time:
just right and power of our constituents; he thought Mr. QUINCY said--That the question was for
we ouglit to retain the right of giving an undivided
substituting a single session in January, for the two
electoral vote; until others also should agree to sessions, which were required by the constitution
give up the same right. Otherwise we should be in other words, it was an abrogation of the session in
making a mere gratuity of that, which was all we Muy. It had been passed in a committee of the
had to offer as an equivalent for a highly desirable whole, by a considerable majority: He hoped that
object in return.
he should be pardoned in asking the house to re-
Mr. AUSTIN, requested the indulgence of the view its decision. He knew that the resolution had
house to make a few remarks in reply to the gen- the gentleman from Springfield, (Mr. Bliss) for its
tlemen who had opposed his motion. He admit-
patron. He was sensible that gentleman had a
ted the inexpediency of attempting to aid the gov- great influence in that body; and justly from his
ernment of the United States. That goverunent | great talents; long experience and characteristic
was strong enough to stand by its own force. The, integrity. He requested of that gentleman to con-
ohject of his motion was to arrange our own affairs. sider the weight which was due to the arguments
It was objected that we should take away an argu- lie should urge. He asked no more: A session in
ment for the adoption of the principle generally | May, was an institution of an antiquity of nearly
throughout the United States. He did not concur two centuries: He thought the reasons for chang:
in the justness of this reiñark. He said we should
ing should be great and general; and grave: Three
have a solid column-'of. Electors when we Bad a general reasons liad been urged by the advocates
solid column of public opinion ; when the for the resolution. Ist. The inconvenience to
opinion of the pione was divided it was not desir-
country gentlenien from the May session. 2d. The
ahie that we should have. In other states there advantage; which resulted, in point of influence, to
was either a violation of the rights of the minority, those wlio cwelt in this vicinity, in consequence of
or their citizens were united by a strong force of the necessary absence of country members, at the
interest or political feeling. He should regret the end of that session: 3d. The economy resulting
destroying our influence in the Union, but he
from baving one session; instead of two. 1st. AS
would not førce public opinion by violating the to thë inconvenience arising to country gentlemen,
rights of the , minority. He agreed ibat from their being obliged to quit their farins, in May,
if we introduced'a provision into our Constitution, it was certainly not excessive: It had been, the
contradicting the provisions of the Constitution of practice of two centuries. There had been no grea
the United States, it would be of no validity. But vious complaint. They had never been prevented
tlle question was, whether the Constitution of the attendance, from any accidcuts of season or wea*
United States would be violated by the amendinent ther. From the first settlement of the country to
offered. , If it were a proposition to give to the
Governor and Council the power of regulating the
this hour, the legislature had been full 10 the brim.
This was an all important fact. It was. the period,
elections, it would unquestionably be a violation, at which the government was organized.* fent
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
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houses in both branches, at the time of first organ- tested election the whole political character of the
izing the departments had always been secured. Commonwealth might be changed for twenty years.
This was the important time, more important than At the May session, there was liability to no acci-
any subsequent period of the session. Because it dent. He did not consider this a local question.
evidences, that, at this season there is a certainty The influence and weight of the inhabitants of the
of organizing the government, according to the ex- West and East, in all questions of state, were the
isting majority in the commonwealth, however that right of those in the centre of the Commonwealth,
majority was constituted. As to the effect on the and he objected to the clause on this ground, that
farming interests,:, we have the experience of two it tended to deprive this part of the Commonwealth
centuries; during all wbich the practice had been of their assistance, as it might be, in a case of ex-
uniforma ; and the prosperous state of our Common- treme difficulty. He thought, in the practicability
wealth was proverbial. Now although some incon- of the meeting of the whole Legislature in May,
venience did exist, he submitted it tothe good sense the wisdont of our ancestors in this provision of the
of the convention to consider, whether it was suffi- constitution was apparent.
cient, in itself considered to justify so great an al- The third reason given was that of economy.com
teration in the Constitution and the habits of our This was a high consideration to men in all rela-
ancestors. The second reason urged was, that it tions. But he thought it was rather an affair of
gave an undue advantage to those, situated in the
detail, than a rule to regulate the principles of a
vicinity of tbe place, where the legislature was constitution. It was a consideration, by which
holden. If this was true, and this was a remedy, | the organs of a government are to be guided after
be granted that it was a good reason. The fact on tliey are formed. Nota principle in relation to
which the objection was founded, he understood which they ought to be cpnstructed and to be com-
to be stated thus:-" The country gentlemen pelled to act. It was among the first considera-
from a distance, go home, towards the end of the tions of law-makers. It was among the last of
May session, and leave the decision of the business
constitution makers, or menders. The reason is
of the state to the gentlemen situated in this imme- that in making a constitution we are regulating
diate vicinity.”-Now, if this is a fact, it is a me- the principles, by which the legislature is to main-
lancholy one. But if it be à fact, is this the re- tain our rights and liberties. If in establishing
inedy? Is it necessary therefore' to amend the
the organization of that legislature, we make
constitution. He put it to the sense of the conven- inere econoiny the rule, we may limit or embar-
tion to decide. Is it rot absolutely within the pow- rass powers which may be necessary to our defence,
er of the legislature to remedy that evil ? -Ist and thus endanger objects, infinitely more mportané
By compelling the attendance of members. 2d By than any aniount of property whatsoever,
an adjournment before the mischief occurs. 3d By But what is this expense? It is scarcely more,
general rules and orders of both, or either branch, probably not more, than the travelling expenses of
briríging the business within the time, in which one session. The week spent in organizing the gore
distant members conld attend. Now he asked, will ernment in June, will be saved in January. The
it be seriously urged that this Constitution shall be work done in the first, will also be saved, to the
amended for the purpose of remedying an evil, ab- last session. In this connection he noticed the ef-
xolutely and uncontrollably already within the ordi- ſect of having but one session in the year, in rela.
nary powers of every legislative body? But is it a tion to that influence of this vicinity, of which gen-
facť ? Can any gentleman put his finger upon one tlemen were so apprehensive. The May session
act of state consequence; any great measure ef- gives opportunity to issue notices for private busjn
fected by the influences of this vicinity, in conse-
ness, änd' enables the Legislature in January to
quence of the absence of country members. That enter upon business early. But if such notices are
such may have happened, in relation to matters of not issued until January, time must be given, and
local concern; in cases of Banks, Turnpikes, Bridg- all the business thrown into the last weeks, when
es and the like, he thought was very probablc. But members from a distance are always likely to be
he asked, on this account, ought we to alter the absent; and thus the evil of local advantage in
Constitution, when the whole subject is now, ac- creased, instead of remedied. He submitted it to the
tually within legislative controal ?"
Convention iſ after this examination either the argu-
Grant, however, that all the suggestions thus far ments from inconvenience, from undue advantages
made are true ; grant, for sake of argument, thạt or from econożny were sufficient to justify any ini-
the May session does give undue advantage; that portant change in the Constitution, much piores
this advantage has been abused; that this abuse is such a change as the measure now proposed was
great enough to justify an amendment to the con- about to produce; a change in a great institution
stitution; the question results; is the measure pro- established by our ancestors, at the first settlement of our
posed, a remedy for that evil?
country. He said that he knew what he was a-
He said, that he had beard the arguments on this bout to say might be treated with sneers and ri-
subject with astonishment. For if he had any power || dicule. He trusted, however, to the candor of the
of perception concerning consequences, the inter- Convention. The argument of the two gentlemet
est of the gentlemen residing in the country was from Salen, Mr. Pickman and Mr. Saltonstall, had
directly the other way. The most important mo- been so met yesterday. It was a testimony to the
ment of time, during the whole session was that, strength of those gentlemen's ai fuments, speaking
on which the government was organized; because concerning whom he said that he spoke the senti-
on that depended the political character of the state ments of every man who knew them, when he said
for the year. Now the question was, at which that for an union of sound heads, with sound hearts,
time of the year could the gentlemen from the coun- they were inferior to none, and equal to any in the
try attend with the most convenience and certainty Commonwealth,
In May, when the season was settled and the com- He asked what was the nature of the institu-
munication certain. Or in January, when the tion to which he alluded ? It is this : The Legis-
roads were liable to be suddenly obstructed. He lature of the Colony and of the Commonwealth
put it to the experience of gentlemen, whether at have been accustomed to meet for two centurieß
the season proposed, a snow storm, of the ancient on the first week of May; and in consequence of
violence and depth, might not change the wliole po- the singular character of our ancestors, who were
litical power of the state. It is only rendering the not a vagrant class, but associated their principles
roads for three days impassable, at the inoment of civil and religious liberty, with elevated notions
preceding the session, and the business is done. of learning and intellectual improvement, it became
By an ascident of this kind, concurring with a con- a custom (or all the literary, the religious, and the
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
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caritable institutions of our country, which were of and that he had finished all the general observa-
a general and state character, to meet on the week tions he intended to make.
of the meeting of our legislature. Accordingly, on Mr. SLOCUM of Dartmouth said that he rosa
this week, from the earliest period, all the clorgy, with great coolness and little animation on this oc-
the learned, the pious, and the charitable' men of casion. While the gentleman from Buston was
our country, made it a custom, as far as it was in- speaking he sometimes threw a mist before him,
dividually convenient, to meet on that week. The and he [Mr. S.] sometimes thought he should vote
representation of this great and most respectable with that gentlemen. But the mist was now'dissi-
bo of men, was always númerous. And for what paged, and he could see the interest of his constit-
purpose did they assemble? To settle the con- uents. The gentleman dealt in Maypoles and flow-
eerns of their respective corporations, whose in- ers and he was willing he should have them, but
fluence and action were co-extensive with the he should have them on his own territories, and
State-to commune with each other on their re-
not at the expense of the state. The question was,
spective concerns--to have intercourse with the whether it was best to have two sessions or one.
fathers of the State to receive and reciprocate It would be a great saying to have but one. If the
light and information-to go together to the tem- legislature were not able to do the business in one
ples of the Most High, there to join in expressions session in a year they might adjourn, and if there
of praise for mercies, and to supplicate his bles- was a majority in favour of meeting in May, they
sings on the coming political year!
might adjourn to that time. He hoped therefore,
Are such institutions to be spurned; are they to that the resolution would pass.
be slighted ; are the feelings which would preserve Mr. FOSTER, of Littleton, said, that as a
them to be sneered at and ridiculed? If the state member of the Massachusetts Congregational
were destitute of them, all the riches in the uni- Charitable Society he would say a few words.-
verse could not replace such an institution, supply The people of Massachusetts had shewn a degree
and originale such habirs; and yet we are about to of kindness and hospitality not manifested by the
throw them away like common dust!
people of any other state. He wished to acknowl-
The gentleman from Springfield (Mr. Bliss) in- edge it with gratitude. Al the annual Convention
timates that these societies may have their meet- of the Clergy they always 'experienced the great
ings in January, Mr, Q. said he should think this munificence of the inhabitants of Boston. But he
almost an insult, if he did not know that the gen- did not think that those who received this charity
tleman from S. was incapable of an insult. He would: suffer from changing the time of the annual
asked would our clergy, our hoary headed litera- Convention of the Clergy from May to Januáry.-
ti, our veteran statesmen, leave their homes for On the contrary he thought they might get more
pleasure and general intercourse, at the most un- money in the winter. It was a time when people
certain and inclement season of the year? He said in general had more to give.
that they might as well.take the warm and glowing Mr. PICKMAN, of Salem, inquired whether
sun of May from the sign in which he predominates the present vote on the resolution was to be final,
at that season, and place him in the sign which and being answered from the chair that it was, he
rules the inverted year, as well take the, flowers moved that when the question should be taken, it
and green surface of June, and spread them as a should be hy yeas and nays. He was aware that
carpet in January, as transfer the institutions of the it would take up sometime, but he thought the final
former period to those of the latter. It could not question on every considerable amendment should
be done. Nature is against it. This resolution be by yeas and nays. There were many' modest
annihilates the whole institution. And what do gentlemen who refrained from speaking on ques-
you annihilate ? An unmeaning ceremony? An
tions who would nevertheless wish that their con
useless pageantry? No--but a substantial, moral, stituents might know how they voted.
and intellectual and political blessing ; such as no Mr. WEBSTER, of Boston, said he knew it
other state does possess; characteristic of our an- was proper not to debate the question of taking
cestors; their glory; associated with all our pros- the yeas and nays, but he rose to a point of order
perity, political, social and literary, and cause of in consequence of what fell from the chair. He
much of it.
apprehended that all the amendments which
Mr. Q. asked if ever there was an institution in should be adopted, would require to be put into
the world better calculated to keep alive these the forın of articles, and suggested that the gentle-
sympathijës, to make learning, religion and good. man from Salem would attain his object if the yeas
morals honoured, and become the foundation of and nays should be taken on the final adoption of
society; and so constituted as to have chief effect those articles,
on the political birth-day of the State-making a [The President explained he meant that the
holiday over the whole state, and a jubilee for the vote was final on the resolution in its present shape. I
metropolis,
Mr. PICKMAN, said, that he only wisbed each
He said that he wished that the venerable gen- member shonld have an opportunity of recording
tlemán on the right of the chair, (Mr. Adams,) to his vota at some time or other, and he withdrew
whom nature had left at the age of eighty-six years
his call for the yeas and nays.
the unabated vigor of his intellect, had also Mr. QUINCY, renewed it. He said that this
been permitted to have relained the unabated pow- vote decided the principle, and no gentleman ou à
er of his ancient eloquence and voice. He wished subsequent vote would wish to record his opinion
that every gentleman in the Convention could have in opposition to a principle which had already
heard him say, as he had yesterday, that gentlemen been finally settled by the Convention.'
did not realize the consequences of the measure.-- Mr. DANA, agreed in the views which had
[Here Mr. BLAKE interrupted Mr. Q. and called
been expressed by the gentleman last speaking:
him to order--that it was not in order for one gen-
Mr. DAWES, of Boston, said, that he should
tlemen to state what another had said.]
have been astonished, but he remembered a rule of
Dr. Franklin not to be astonished at any thing
Mr! Q. said he had no authority to repeat what he was disappointed to hear the motion of the gen-
the venerable gentleman had said, but presumed,
tleman from Salem- he was pleased when he
as he was present, it was in order.
The Chair decided that Mr. Q. was not in order.
withdrew it and it was with grief that he heard
Mr. Q. said, that although he differed from the
it renewed by his highly respected colleague. He
said he considered it a question whether they
Chair in point of order,yet that he had too great re-
should sit all winter, if this resolution and tweaty
speet for the gentleman who filled it, to appeal-
others were to be decided by yeas and pays. He
1
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
did not like the rule that a fifth part of the mem- single remark, and he would endeavor that what
bers should be at liberty to demand the yeas and be should
say,
should be remarkable for its brevity,
nays. It was holding a rod over gentlemen and if it was not for its solidity, on this as well as on
telling then“ if you do not vote as I choose your all other occasions. He considered the question
constituants shall know it.”'
important to the interests of the country, and he
The PRESIDENT said that the question of wished to express what he believed to be the sentje:
taking the vote by yeas and nays should be decid- ments not only of his constituents, but of other gen:
ed without debate.
Jemen in the same part of the state. He had boped
Mr DAWES said, if I had known that, I would the gentleman from Springfield would have replied
not have said a word.
to the remarks of the ġen'tlenian from Boston." He
Mr. QUINCY said that he did not wish to push would have done it in a manner móre satisfactory
the motion in opposition to the opinions of other than he (Mr. L.) was able to do it. He professed
gentlemen about him, and he withdrew it,
az nzuch respect for the present constitution as any
Mr. DANA then renewed the motion. The member of the convention, but he was sorry to hear
question was taken on the motion for taking the the expression of any sentiment that should sanction
yote by yeas and nays and carried.
the opinion that no improvement could be made to
The resolution was then read.
correspond with the progress of society. The pros-
Mr. PRINCE, of Boston, said, that he expected ent constitution at the time of its adoption was but
there would be conflicting interests in the House an-experiment. The framers of it could not antic.
and he wished to meet them in a spirit of concilia- ipate what would be the effect of every part of it.
ţion. From the expression of opinion wbich had He thougļt that on this question there were imper.
already been given on this question he was satis- atire reasons for a change: He differed from the
fied that this resplution would meet the views of opinion expressed by the gentleman from Salein,
his brethren from the country, and he should for that it would produce no saving of money. His
that reason give his vote in favor of it.
reasoning was predicated on the supposition that
Mr. LITTLE, of Newbury said that ever since much time would be necessary in organizing the
the origin of the Commonwealth, the Legislature government. It was true that heretofore much had
had met in May and he had heard no complaint of been necessary. Time had been wastefully and
it. If we were now to change, he wished it to be uselessly expended in the legislative mockery of e-
considered that it was because we were wiser than lecting members of the Council from the Senate,
all our forefatliers had been. But a single r'eason merely to give them opportunity to decline. The
had been giyen in fayor of it-it would save the exq houses had been employed day after day in
pense of travelling. He proceeded to make some supplying the vacancies. All this time he trusted
statements of the amount of expense in different would now be saved. Whole days were occupied
sessions within the last ten years. He thought it in choosing Nataries public in Convention of the
would be inconvenient to transact all the business two Houses, but he trusted that with the amend-
at the winter session, and if they should have ments wbich should be adopted, little time would
occasion to adjourn, they could not adjouin to a be requisite for organizing the government. The
more convenient day, than the last Wednesday in argument of the gentleman was therefore without
May.' He had been a farmer for many years and foundation, which otherwise would have been of
he knew that this was a season when business. I great farce. He proceeded to reply to the re-
was least urgent.
marks of the gentleman from Boston, (Mr. Quin-
Mr. WALKER, of Templeton, said that the on- cy.) He had expressed a great regard for the ina
ly question was, whether the change would produce terests of the country, he knew him too well, to
2. saving, of expeuse.. :)1 other considerations doubt that he was perfectly sincere in his remarks,
should be laid out of vioy. He considered the but he could assure hin, that the people from the
meeting in May as a mere ceremony which could country would have opportunity to attend to their
easily be dispensed with. He thought it a self ev- own rights: Snow storms were not so dreadful as
ideni proposition.
seemed to be imagined. The people were famil,
Mr. PICKMAN, thought it might be shown that iar with them, and they seldom prevented the pas.
expense would be saved by having two sessions in. sing from one end of the state to the other. He
stead of one. Every gentleman who had had any recollected but one instańce when the travelling
experience in the Legislature must know that much had been entirely obstructed by snow, which was
time was taken up in organizing the government- in the year of the adoption of the Constitution.
it was not a mere ceremonyait was a duty iinposed But suppose it to happen more frequently, the ar-
by the constitution itself. The days were so much gument is inconclusive, unless it can be shown
longer, & the transaction of business so much casier that the roads may not be broken up by fresh-
that one day in May was worth two in January ets in the spring-ihat there may not be
for this purpose. He spoke from experience, and earthquakes in May=--that the bridges may
appealed to gentlemen who had been in the legis- not be carried off by floods. He contended
lature. To perform the same service, several days that it would be more convenient to assenible
Jonger would be required in the winter than at the in January than in May. A great part of the mem-
usual date of the sunimer session--and enough to bers of the Legislature come from agricultural parts
make the whole difference of the expeuse or trav- of the Commonwealth, wliere May and June are a-
elling. He suggested another argument against mong the most busy months in the year. The seed
the change. This was butą part olla system. If is put into the ground as early as May; it soon re-
the session of the legislature was altered, the pe- quires weeding, and the first and second hoeing is
riod of all elections must be altered. The gentle hardly finished, before the gathering of the hay be-
man from Springfield had told us that the people gins. Hay is begun to be cut in Hampshire county
would attend to iheir private business, to the neg- as early as June; in Worcester in June or the ben
lect of the public. What would be the consequence Iginning of July. “It is inconvenient for gentlemen.
of transferring the business of the elections from engaged in these pursuits to leave their honies to
the spring, a period of comparative leisure to the attend the General Court. It has resulted from
futumo, when all are occupied. The session also these causes, that it has been indispensable in the
would be so prolonged, from having all the business spring session of the General Court, either to trans,
of the year crowded into it, that it would extend act business in a thin house, or adjourn to the win.
into the spring, and gentlemen would liave the same ter, when the agricultural business of the year is
jemptation to desert their duty, as n May.
finished, and those who are engaged in these pura
Mr: LINCOLN, of Worcester, rose to make a suits, are at leisure. As to the charitable instith
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
65
1
session.
Mons which hold their anniversary meetings at the furnished with.certificates under the hand of the
time of election, if they were necessarily connected Governor, &c. He-objected to striking out a whole
with the session of the Legislature, they might meet chapter from the Constitutioli, as the resolution
as well in January as an May. The snow which proposes, and he douhied of the power of the Con-
then covered the ground, served rather to facilitate vention to do it under their authority to alter and
than to impede travelling, and the members of the amend only.
Legislature in coming to the capital, might bring The question was taken on Mr. Morton's anend-
with them their minister or other persons with ment and lost.
greater ease than at another season. But he did Considerable debate arose upon the concluding
not think there was much force in this argument on words of the resolution “expunged therefrom,
one side or the other. He placed the question on and motions were successively made to substitute
the ground of experience. He insisted that it was "annulled", and "? become inoperative," and to
more. convenient to have but one session, and to lay the resolution upon the table; all of which
have that begin in January; and for this reason he
were lost.
should vote for the resolution.
The question was then taken upon passing the
The yeas and nays were then taken on the adop-
resolution and decided in the affirmative.
tion of the resolution, and it was decided in the ar- On motion of Mr. WEBSTER, it was ordered
firmative-Yeas 408--Nays 55.
that the several committees appointed in pursu:
The third Resolution reported by the same com- ance of the various resolutions adopted on the 17th
mittee respecting the limitation of the time for the inst, be standing committees until the end of the
Governor's returning bills and resolves sent to him
by the Legislature for his approbation, was read a On motion of Mr. FAY, of Cambridge, it was
second time as amended in committee of the whole
then
and passed.
Resolved, that the Committee on so much
The Resolution for striking out " Commissary of the Constitution as relates to the Secreta-
General, Notaries Public, and Naval Officers” in
Ch: 2, Sect. 4, Art. 1, reported by the committee | propriety and expediency of so altering the
ry, Treasurer &c. be directed to consider the
on the part of the Constitution which respects the
Secretary, &c. and amended in committee of the same, as that in case either of the offices with
wholc, was read a second time.
in the appointment of the Legislature shall
Mr. FAY, of Cambridge, observed that there become vacant from any cause during the
was 120 provision in the constiention for supplying
recess of the General Court, the Governor,
any vacancies which may happen, during the recess
with the advice and consent of the Council
of the Legislature, in the offices of Secretary and
Treasurer, and he wished therefore to amend the under such regulations as may be prescribed
resolution, so as to provide that such vacancies by law, shall appoint and commission a fit
should be supplied by the Governor, with the advice
and consent of the Council. He said a law passed | who shall perform the duties thereof nntil a
and proper person, to fill such vacant office,
in 1792 authorizing the Governor, with the advice
of the Council, to declare a vacancy in the office of successor shall be appointed by the General
Treasurer, and 10 take proper steps for the securi- Court.
ty of the public papers and property until the Leg- Mr. WEBSTER, from the committee on the
islature dould assemble. But the Legislature did 10th resolution passed on the 17th inst. submitted
not consider it competent to them to delegate cheir the following Reports :
power to appoint a successor. A provision of the The Committee to whom it was referred to con-
kind proposed was the more necessary, since it sider whether any, and if any, what alterations or
was contemplated to have but one session of the amendments, it is proper and expedient to make
Legislature in a year. With respect to the Secre- in so much of the Constitution as is contained in
gary, a law was passed in 1813 authorizing his dep- the sixth chapter of the second part, and respects
uties to act in such a case. This was, in fact, ena- oaths and subscriptions, &c,
bling the Secretary to appoint his successor; a Ask leave to report the following resolutions.
proceeding which was contrary to the principles Resolved, I hat it is expedient so far to
of our constitution.
alter and amend the constitution, as to pro-
The President doubted, on a point of order; | vide, that instead of all oaths, declarations
the propriety of taking up a pèw subject which had
pot been debated in committee of the whole, and and subscriptions now required, all persons
suggested that the proposed amendment sliould be chosen or appointed to any office, civil or
referred to the select committee on the part of the military, under the Government of this Com-
constitution which respects the Governor.
monwealth, shall, before they enter on the
Mr. FAY, said he was aware that it might be
referred to that committee, or to a committee of
duties of their office, take and subscribe the
the whole. He had had an intention of introduc- following oath of allegiance, and oath of of-
ing the subject in the committee respecting the fice, viz.
Governor', as he happened to be one of the Com;
- mittee, but on further consideration he thought || bear faith and true allegiance to the Com-
“ I, A. B. do solemnly swear, that I will
ţie proper place, for the provision would be in the
article respecting the secretary &c. Upon a sug-
inonwealth of Mas acirusetts, and will supa
gestion from Mr. Webster or a proposition he in-
port the Constitution thereof. So help me
tended to m.ike, Mr. Fay withdrew his motion. God."
The question was then taken on passing the res-
Oath of Office.
olution and decided in the affirmative,
The resolution reported by the Committee on
"I, A. B. do soleninly swear--that I will
the part of the constitution respecting Delegates faithfully and impartially discharge and per-
to Congress was then taken up.
form all the duties incumbent on me as-
Mr. MORTON, of Dorchester, renewed the mo- according to the best of my abilities and un-
tion he had made in committec of the whole to a-
pend the resolution hy striking out “ expunged
derstanding, agreeably to the rules and reg-
therefrom" and adding a provision that our Sepa-
ulations of the Constiiution and the laws of
grs and Representativės in Congress sheuld be this Commonwealth. So help me God.".
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
$
Provided, that whenever any person, chosen Government, ask leave to report the following
or appointed as aforesaid, shall be of the de- Resolution :-
nomination called Quakers, and shall de Resolved, That it is proper to and expedi-
cline taking said oaths, he shall make his ent so far to amend the constitution, as to
affirmation in the foregoing form, omitting | provide that the General Court shall have
the word “swear” and inserting instead full power and authority to erect and constix
thereof the word" affirm," and omitting the tute Municipal or City Governments in ang
words “ So help me God” and subjoining in- corporate town or towns in this Com-
stead thereof the words this I do under the monwealth; and to grant to the inhabi-
pains and penalties of perjury.
itants thereof such powers, privileges and im-
2. Resolved, That it is proper and expedi-munities not repugnant or contrary to this
ent further to amend the constitution, so as Constitution, as the General Court shall
to provide that no judge of any Court in this l deem expedient or necessary for the regula-
Commonwealth and no person holding an
tion and Government thereof; and to pre-
office under the authority of the United States, scribe the inanner of calling and holding
(Post-inasters excepted) shall at the same public meetings of the inhabitants for the en
time hold the office of Governor, Lieutenant lection of officers under the Constitution :
Governor or Counsellor or have a seat in the Provided, that no such Government shall be
Senate or House of Representatives of this
erected or constituted in any town not con-
Commonwealth, and that no Judge of any taining inhabitants ; nor unless it be
Court in this Commonwealth, the Attorney
with the consent and on the application of
General, Solicitor General, Clerk of any
a majority of the voters of such town quali
Court, Sheriff, Treasurer or Receiver Gen-fied to vote in town affairs.
eral, Register of Probate, Register of Deeds,
For the Committee.
shall continue to hold his said office after be-
DANIEL WEBSTER.
ing elected a member of the Congress of the
The Committee on so much of the Constitution
United States and accepting that trust; but
as is contained in the sixth Chapter of the second
part, and who were instructed to take into con-
the acceptance of that trust by any officer a- sideration the expediency of so amending the Cone
foresaid shall be deened and taken to be a stitution as to insert therein a provision substitua
resignation of his said office ; and that Judge ting affirmations for oaths in all cases whatsoever,
es of the Courts of Cominon Pleas shall hold i regard to taking oaths” ask leave to report the fole
where the party shall entertain religious scruples is
no other office under the Government of this lowing resolution.
Commonwealth, the office of Justice of the Resolved, That it is not expedient to make
Peace, and militia offices excepted.
any further provision by the Constitution, rele
3. Resolved, That it is proper and expedi- lative to the substitution of affirmations for
ent further to alter and amend the Constitu- oaths,
tion of this Cominonwealth, so as to provide
For the Committee.
that if at any time hereafter any specific and
DANIEL WEBSER.
particular amendment or amendnients to the These reports were severally, read, ordered to
Constitution be proposed in the General be printed, referred to a committee of the whole
Court, and agreed to by two thirds of the
house, and made the order of the day for Friday,
members of each House, present and voting
at 10 o'clock,
The house adjourned.
thereon ; such proposed amendment or a-
mendments shall be entered on the journals
of the two Houses, and referred to the Gen-
eral Court next to be chosen, and shall be
TAURSDAY, Nov, 30.
published ; and if in the General Court next The Convention met according to adjournment,
to be chosen as aforesaid, the said proposed and attended prayers made by the Rev. Mr: Pal-
amendment or amendments shall be agreed | frey: The Journal of yesterday's proceedings was
.
to by two thirds of the members of each
Mr. JACKSON, of Boston, offered the followa
House present and voting thereon; then it ng resolution ;
shall be the duty of the General Court to Resolved, That a committee be appointed
submit such proposed amendment or amend- to consider in what manner such amendments
ments to the People; and if approved and in the present constitution of government of
ratified by a majority of the qualified voters, the Commonwealth, as may be made and
at meetings legally warned and holden for Il proposed by this Convention, shall be submit-
that purpose, tie same shall become part of ted to the people for their ratification and
the Constitution of this Commonwealth. adoption, and in what manner their votes
DANIEL WEBSTER, thereon shall be returned, and the result asą
for the Committee. certained.
The committee on so mucli of the Constitution He stated, that his ohject in making this motion,
as is contained in the sixih Chapter of second part, was to remove a difficulty which had frequently oc-
and who were instructed to inquire into the expedi- curred in the course of the debate, from an uncer-
ency and propriety of so aniending the constitution tainty with respect to the form to which the amenda
as to authorize the General Court to grant to towns, ments agreed to by the convention should be reduce
m certain cases, the powers aad privilcges of a City ed. For his part he had no doubt of the course
1
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
67
course.
proper to be pursued. He thought that they had this resolution until the Convention had come to a
no authority under the act under which they were decision upon that report.
convened, to reduce the constitution to a new draft, This motion was agreed to, and the Committee
and if they had the power, he should not think it proceeded to the second resolution.
proper to exercise it. In that case, when the a- Mr. BANGS moved to amend the report by: in*
mended constitntion was submitted to the people, serting a resolution that it is expedient to amend
they would be obliged to acceplor reject the the Constitution by making a provision in Part Zi,
whole. He thought it the most proper mode to ch: 2, Séc. 2; Art. 2, that the Lieutenant Governor
propose the several amendments distinctly, so that shall receive the same compensation as other mem..
when submitted to the people, they may act upon bers of the Council, and no more, unless called to
each specific amendment, and adopt or reject then, perform the duties of the Governor, when a vacan-
according to their judgment of each. Otherwise cy shall take place in that office, in which case he
they might reject the whole, on account of their ob- shall have the same salary as the Governor.
jection to a particular article, and thus they would Mr..BLISS, of Springfield, wished, as the sub-
fail of their object, and all the labor of the conven- ject was new to a majority of the Committee, that
tion would be lost. He had thought that the sub- it might be postponed.
ject might be referred to the chairmen of the sev- Mr. BANGS" said he had no objection to that
oral standing committees, but they had not yet all
reported, and were therefore otherwise occupied. Mr: PARKER (the President) said the question
It would then be necessary to appoint a special was a simple one, whether the Lieutenant Govers.
committee for the purpose, and for that object he nor should have a salary or not. He thought it
submitted the resolution.
was unnecessary to have a postponement.
The resolution was then read and adopted, and Mr. BANGS said he proposed the amendment in
it was ordered that the committee should consist | compliance with what he conceived to be the gen-
of five members :
eral wish of the people in the part of the state in
The Hon. Judge Jackson, of Boston; Judge
which he resided. They thought that the office of
Wilde,of Newburyport; Mr. L. Lincoln,of Worces- Lieut. Governor was unnecessary, under existing
ter; Woodbridge, of Stockbridge ; and Holmes, ll circumstances, and there was a general expecta-
of Rochester, were appointed.
tion that it would be abolished. For himself, he.
Mr. PICKMAN, of Salem, from the committee was in favor of retaining the office. It was found-
on the part of the constitution relating to the Lieut. ed by our ancestors, it added to the honor and dig-
Governor and Council, called up the report of that nity of the state ; but the reason which had most
committee, which was on Tuesday referred to the weight with him, was the propriety of designating a
committee of the whole, and made the order of the successor to the Chief Magistrate in case of his
day for 11 o'clock yesterday. On his motion the decease. But the people were unwilling that the
Convention resolved itself into committee of the Lieutenant Governor should receive a salary for
whole, on that report--Mr. Varnum in the chair. doing nothing. He has a compensation for his
The report of the committee was read, and it was services as a Counsellor; this was sufficient. By
voted that the several resolutions recommended in giving him a salary besides, the Legislature had
it should be taken up for consideration in order. established a sinecure, which was a monster in a
The first resolution was then read as fo}lows : republican government. The salary of five hun-
Resolved, That it is expedient and proper,
dred dollars, he said conferred no honor. on the
to alter and amend the Constitution of this
state--it was a pitiful sum. He would give nothing .
at all, or he would give a liberal salary. The sunr
.
Commonwealth, by striking out in the first however, had nothing to do with his objections to
Article of the second Section of the second the salary. It was the principle of a sinecure to
Chapter thereof, relating to the Lieut: Gov- which he was opposed. Giving a salary to the
erner, the following words :-"In point of Lieutenant Governor was contrary tº the princi-
ples and intention of the Constitution. The Con--
religion, property, and residence in the Com-
stititution says the Governor shall have a salary ;
monwealth.
it does not say so with respect to the Lieutenant
Mr. PICKMAN, said it was his duty and right, Governor--and yet the Legislature annually grant
as chairman of the committee which made the re- him a salary. He had understood that the Lieut.
port under consideration, to explain the views Governor used to have fees and perquisites, as
which had led them to the adoption of the princi- Captain of the Castle ; and when these were re-
ples of their report. But in this case he was in the linquished by the cession of the castle to the Unit-
peculiar situation of being opposed to the resolu- ed States, the Legislature gave this salary of five.
tion under consideration, which, as chairman, he hundred dollars as an equivalent; but this was not
had reported. The resolution was recommended intended by the Constitution. It will be said we
hy a bare majority of the committee, and after stal- should not in the Coustitution, fix the precise sums
ing this fact, and that it was in opposition to his for salaries. He was of the same opinion ; but
own sentiments, he should give an opportunity, to there was a great difference between fixing the
gentlemen of that majority, to explain their reasons amount of a salary and determining that there,
in favor of it. As far as he understood the reason, should be no salary at all. This amendment, he
it was that they were opposed to the requiring of said, was not making any change in the Constitu-
any religious test as a qualification for the office, oftion; it was only making more explicit what was
Lieut. Governor.
already intended by that instrument. But what if
Mr. BANGS, of Worcester said the gentleman it was a change ? he came there to touch that in-
had misapprehended the reason which influenced strument, not with a trembling hand, as some gent-
the majority of the Select Committee in regard to tlemen seemed to have come. He would touch it
this resolution. It was not because they wished with a cautious, but at the same time with a firin
to shew their disapprobation of a religious test that hand, and anıputate such parts as were diseased.
they were in favour of the resolution, but because Mr. PICKMAN thought this subject was not
they thought this amendment would meet the views
of the Convention.
a proper one to be debated in that body. It bad.
The question respecting the better be left to the Legislature to determine..
test, it was supposed, would be determined more whether a salary should be allowed or not. The
conveniently upon the report of the Committee on members of the Legislature as well as those of the
the part of the Constitution which respects oaths, Convention were chosen by the people and repre-
&c. Mr. Bangs concluded by moring to postpone sented the people. The constitution slivuid
1
3
1
68
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
was
no
ment.
guard against such abuses as the Legislature would that the state may be charged in account with so
be under temptation to commit, but it should not many months and days service, as Governor: Bub
be jealous of the Legislature. The two branches Sir; these offices are too important and dignified
of that body were more suitable to discuss this to be dealt with in this way, and I trust we shall
subject as they could frame their decisions accord- leave the subject where the constituțion has left it
ing to the exigency of the times, and the Conven. -to the discretion of future Legislatures.
tion had better leave the power of deciding, where Mr. CHILDS, of Pittsfield, said he would not be
the Constitution leaves it. Mr. P. did not agree delerred by the intimation of the gentleman from
with the gentleman from Worcester that this office Boston of the littleness of this measure. He con:
was a sinecure The Lieut: Governor always kept sidered it a principle that they were to establish;
himself ready to act in the Council when wanted; that there should be no sinecures in the government.
it was not so with the other counsellors. He had If the gentleman would define what was meant by
also the more arduous task of presiding in the a sinecure, and if the office of Lieut. Governor'was
Couneil in the absence of the Governor; it was not a sinecure; he did not know how the word
his duty to hold himself in readiness to supply a should be defined. He considered that office a sin
vacancy in the Governor's office; wid he was dis- eçure in wbich the incumbent rendered no services.
qaalified with respect to holding other offices. He differed from the idea of tbe gentleman from
Mr. SLOCUM, of Dartinouth, said dignities Salem, that this was not a place to fix principles.
and sound were a pleasing thing, but we ought He thought it was peculiarly the place to fix prin-
not to give too much for them. He did not wish ciples; and that the Legislature was not the place:
duty to be performed without compensation, but By the constitution, the representation in the senate
he was not satisfied that the duties of the Lieu:
was proportioned to property, and that in the house.
1 tenant Governor deserved greater compensa- of representatives to population. Were not these
tion than his pay as a Counsellor: Every bo- principles to be determined by'the constitution and
dy was glad at this opportunity for révising the not by the legislature? I do hold that the office of
constitution, because we could begin to econ- Lieut. Governor is a sinecure; and that we are call-
omize, and there
reason wliy we ed upon to fix the priviciple that no sinecure shall
should not begin it at the head. The money to exist in the government. The antiquity of the office
pay the salary of the lieutenant governcur was to does not prove that it is not a sinecure. He hoped
be drawn from the labouring part of the commu- that the question would be decided on principles
nity, and he wisbed the office might be abolished and he was for that reason in favor of the amend-
as a useless one, but as that was not the question
before the committee; he hoped the compensation Mr. AUSTIN, of Charlestown, said ke was sorry
to be allowed would be only as much as the com- the gentleman from Worcester had not made a
pensation of a Counsellor
different motion. He was not disposed to make a
Mr. DUTTON.-The amendment under consid- motion himself, after the lamentable fale which had
eration provides that the Lieutenant Gorerpor,shal! attended the last one he made, but he hoped the
have no salary, except during the tinie he acts as gentleman would vary his motion so that the pro-
Governor. I am opposed to the amendment. The position should be to abolish the office of Lieut:
only argument in favor of it is, that the office is a Governor; for if it was not a sinecure, it was at
sinecure. I do not admit the fact The Lieutenant least ai quasi sinecure. He should not vote for the
Governor has high and important duties to dis- genileman's present motion. As the office was the
charge. In case of the death, or atiscence, or dis- second in the government, he should think it de-
ability of thc Governor, he is to perform all the rogatory to requesi gentlemen to fill it for nothing:
duties that pertain to the office of Governor. It The present salary was not sufficient to support the
will be recollerted, Sir, that the Governor and courtesies which were expected from the incun-
Lieutenant Governor are the only officers who are bent. He did not mean to encourage pomp and
elected by the whole people. This is a wise pro-li splendor, which were contrary to the genius of our
ision, and secures to the people a Governor elect, institutions, but men high in office were unavoida-
ed by themselves. It has been the practice of bly exposed to additional expenses on account of
other states and of the United States; to establisha their office. It would no doubt be useful to appoint
an office second in rank and digniiy to that of the a successor to the Governor, and one might be
Chiet Nagistrate; to he filled by some distinguished found in the President of the Senate.
man, a..d elected with a view to his discharging the Mr. BLAKE, of Boston; repeated the declara-
duties of Chief Magistrate in certain specified e- tion which he had before made, that he would not
mergencies. Besides, Sir, in consequence of his assent to the change of a single feature of the cou-
rank and dignity's, he is put to an additional ex- stitution which should have a tendency to change
pense. It often happens,that he is obliged to do the its republican character. He was opposed to the
honors of the Commonwealth, to notice strangers present amendment because it was anti-republican.
of distinction, and these civilities are attended with The office was necessary, for the case miglit occurs
expense. Is it reasonable then, is it just, to clothe and had already occurred when all the duties of
a man with an office, which subjects him to ex- chiel magistrate would devolve upon the Lieur:
pense, without providing at least an indemnity.- Governor. In such case it was proper if the Gov-
Sir, I believe the present Lieutenant Governor ex- ernor had any compensation, that the Lieut. Gov-
pends imore than his whole salary in consequence ernor should have it. These two offices come die
of his office. But there is another oljection to the rectly from the people. Some gentlemen would
ameudient, which appears to me to be conclusive, take away, the choice from the people. They
and that is this:-il is a matter which belongs to would have the office devolve upon a person chos-
the discretion of the Legislature. It ought to be en for another purposes and in whose designation
left there, as the salaries of the other officers are. to perform the duties of chief magistrate the peo-
But this imendnient goes to tie up the hands of all ple would have no direct voice. The office was
future Legislatures, and puts it forever out of their called a sinecure. Was it so ? The Lieut. Gover..
power to provide any compensation, under any cir-. nor is a member of the Council and President of
cumstances for the Lieutenant Governor. To in- that board.. They are sometimes in session frour
gert such a provision as this, into our Constilution, monch to month. Other meinbers may be absent,
has to my nuiod an air of littleness, not altogether. Il but the Lieutenant Governor cannot, as presiding
becoming the dignity, of the convention. I am a- officer-he has greater responsibility. The propo-
ware Sir that the amendment provides, that when sed alteration was anti-republican, because if it
be acts as Governor lie shall be paid as Governor, prevailed uone but a man of wealih could be Licuti
1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
69
Governor He is often required to represent the ate; or the oldest or youngest Counsellor might be
öxecutive of the Commonwealth. He is bound in appointed by the Constitution to succeed, but it
the absence of the Governor to receive strangers would not be so convenient; as it would be necessa.
of distinction with the hospitality becoming the ry to keep in mind at the elections, that the Coun-
head of the Commonwealth. Who can perform sellors and Senators should be qualified not only
these duties but a man of wealth or a man who for those offices respectively, but likewise for the
has a compensation. By withdrawing the salary office of Governor. He thought however that the
we pronounce that none but a man of opulence can Constitution did not contemplate the Lieut. Gov-
fill the office. The performance of these duties is ernor's having a salary., : And this was to be de.
called mere sbow and pageantry. He asked if the duced from contemporaneous construction, if that
framers of the Constitution were men of pomp, was of any force, for no salary had been attached
show and pageantry; if the times in which the to the office for several years after the adoption of
Constitution was formed were suited for the indul- the Constitution.
gence of this disposition. If the oflice of Lieuten- Mr. HINCKLEY of Northampton mentioned
ant-Governor was important and necessary at the à circumstance which had occurred under our
time of the formation of the Constitution, when present constitution, of the office of Governor hav-
the population of the Commonwealth was compar- ing once immediately after the election devolved
atively small, was it not much more so now? He on the Lieutenant Governor, who administered it.
referred to the example of the United States Con- through the whole year. ; He thought gentlemen
stitution, which requires a Vice-President who has were blending two distinct questions. It was one
a permanent salary, and who is chosen not princi- ll question whether we should have a Lieutenant
pally to act as President of the Senate, but ihat Governor,and another whether he should have any
there niay be a person chosen by the majority of salary. The Legislature had always determin-
the people for the express purpose of actiog as ed what were the pecuniary resources of the
chiet magistrate in case of necessity,
state and how they should be applied. It is for us
Mr. HVAR, of Concord, nid that if gentlemen to say only whether there shall be such an officer
would review their argument in support of this mo- we should say nothing about his compensation
tion he thought they would be satisfied that it was He never heard any objection made to the office,
inconclusive. They state that the office is a sine- and he did not think that in his part of the country
cure,and if it is not they do not understand the mean- scarcely a vote would be given against retaining in
ing of the term and for this reason there. ought to This however was not the question before the
be no salary attached to it. But will they vote for Committee.' He said if it was requisite that the
an office which is a sinecnre? Their argument Lieut. Governor should be at his post, that be
is founded on the principle that there should be no should preside at the council board-if the duties
sinecures, yet they vote for the office and object of a presiding officer are more difficult than those
to the salary because the office is a sinecure. Mr. of another member, the Legislature ought to have
H. thought that if the principle on which this a- power to make him a compensation. As to the
mendment was founded were to be pursued it would Lieutenant Governor's being always a wealthy
lead to an endless discussion. They should on the man, keeping a suinptuous table and living in
same principle restrict the Legislature in relation splendor ; this was entirely out of the question. *
to every other office and they should be engaged Mr STORY, of Salen said he did not object to
in digesting a fee bill for all the offices of ihe a thorough examination of the constitution and
state. Tbis would involve an inquiry into a thous- | making such amendments as were salutary. Those
and minute considerations which he was not wil. parts which were weak he would strengthen, and
ling to go into. If the office was a sinecure, which those which were useless he wonld strike out.
huirever he did not think, if it was of no use it They were not making a law which could
ought to be abolished. But this was not the ques-
be repealed, but a constitution which could
tion now before thc Comınittee.
not be altered. He said there was very great
Mr. APTHORP, of Boston, thought that upon weight in the observation of the gentleman from
the same principle on which we would prohibit the Salem, (Mr. Pickman,) that they should not bind
giving of a salary to the Lieutenant Governor we the discretion of the Legislature except where it
should limit the authority to give salaries to the was liable to abuse. Tliey ought to have confi-
Treasurer, Secretary and other officers. But this dence in the Legislature; this principle was con-
was a subject much better left to the wisdom and genial to the nature of our government. It was
discretion of the Legislature. The Lieutenant Gov- incumbent on gentlemen who proposed any change
crnor has important duties to perform, and it may in the constitution, to shew the necessity or expe-
happen that still more important duties shall de- diency of the measure. Had gentlemen shewn any
volve upon him. He is always bound to be in necessity or expediency in the present case? Was
readiness to perform the duties of chief magistrate; any gentleman so wise, of such foresight; aś to be
he is placed under a restraint, and subjected to able to say that in all furre times and in all the
cxpenses, for which he ought io be in part com- vicissitudes of human affairs, it would never be.
pensated.
necessary to have such an officer as that of Lieut..
A member whose name we did not learn, dislik- Governor-that his duties would never become im-
ed the amendment, because he thought the office portant, and that they would never deserve any
unnecessary. To give time for the mover to sub- compensation ? He'would pass over the arguments
stitute a resolution to abolish the office altogether, that we ought not to have a Lieutenant Governor,
lie moved that the question be indefinitely postpon- not because he was not prepared to shew the im-
ed,
portance of having that office, but because it was
The Chairman said an indefinite postponement not the question before the committee.
could not take place in committee—it must be in The learned gentleman then proceeded to arguė,
convention--and it would then be a postponement with great force and eloquence, that the office so
of the whole subject.
far from being a sinecure had important duties
Mr. DANA, of Groton, said he had thought that it was an office of great dignity and responsi-
the office had better be abolished, but the dis- bility--that if no compensation is given, none but
cussion had given him better views of the sub- wealthy citizens can accept the office that it is
ject. He now thought it was proper that some not to be expected that the person best qualified
person should be designated by the people to sup- for the office will always be able like the good, vir-
ply a vacancy in the chair of the Chief Magistrate.. tuous and prous individual, so distinguished for his
The whole Council, or the President of the Sen- extensive munificençe and benevolence, who bao
10
5
70
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
}
中
​for several years filled the office, to dispense with eunment should reside near the metropolis. Yet
a suitable compensation for his services--that the it was also important that every part of the Com-
Lieut. Governor cannot avoid incurring expense in monweath should be represented in this depart-
consequence of his office that it was not a repub- ment of the Government. He thought that if: but
lican principle to be obliged to choose a rich inan seven were to be chosen to the conncil, five should
who will serve without compensation, or a poor be required to be present on making appointments.
one to be corrupted--that it could not be expected Mr. PICKMAN, said, as he was called upon he
that good, able, and faithful men should be found hoped he should be excused for rising again. He
to serve the public without a suitable compensa. was surprised at the objection made by the gen-
tion--and that it was no economy to starve men in tleman from Springfield. There was a general
office.
expectation that the council would be reduced,
Mr. FLINT, of Reading, concurred in the views and he had expected that gentlemen would be in
expressed by the gentleman who preceded him favor of a greater reduction. He thought that
The question of compensation to the Lieut. Gov: seven was a sufficient number. Before the separ-
ernor belonged to the Legislature. If the Conven-lation, the Council in effect consisted but of seven
tion should adopt this amendment, it was saying to members, as the gentlemen from Maine on account
the people of the Commonwealth that they could of their great distance seldom attended. The ot-
not choose another body of men fit to be trusted.- jection of the gentleman existed as forcibly agaiøst
.
It was an affront on the people. It was attaching the old arrangement as against that now proposed.
more consequence to themselves than they were To effect a more general distribution of the mem-
entitled to. He objected to tying up the people by bers, it was proposed that but one should be chos-
annecessary restrictions. They had present expe- i en from a county, instead of two, the present lin-
rience of the injúrious effect of superfluous limita- itation. He did not believe that we.ever had or
tions. Had it not been for six words in the consti- ever should have a governor who would under-
tution, relative to the apportionment of Senators, take to nominate to an important office, and to
the people never would have called this conven- have the nomination confirmed without notice to
ition. He stated other reasons against the amend: all the members. It was not to be supposed that
ment,
he would venture to appoint a chief justice when
Mr. MITCHELL, of Bridgewater, spoke in fav- the members from this vicinity only were present.
or of the amendment, and
It was a supposition too improbable to be admitted.
MK HOLMES, of Rochester, against it.
It was necessary on account of emergencies that
The question was taken on the amendment, and may arise, that a quorum of the council should be
decided in the negative-105 to 282.
within a convenient distance. It was even now
The 28 resolve was then read in the following / often difficult to obtain a quoruin. The compen-
toids :
sation was too small to indice members to give up
: Resolved. That it is expedient and proper their time entirely to the duties of the ofice. It
to amend the same, by striking out in the
was :. sacrifice not to be expected It was neces-
first article of the third section and same
sary that the quorum should be sınall, and one .
wbich could be formed from zuenbers within a
chapter, relating to the Council, Soc. the short distance from the seat of government. The
word" nine," and insert - seven:also the difference between five and four could make no
word " five,?? and insert" four."
difference in the gentleman's arguments as it re-
Mr. PICKMAN explained the reasons of the quired the same number to make a majority in one
Committee for recommending a reduction of the
case as in the other.
number of members of the Council from nine to
Mr. FAY, of Cambridge, wished to say a few
seven. They were in substance, that by the
words in reply to the gentleman from Springfield.
separ-
ation of Maine from the Commonwealth the duties
His olyjection supposed that a fraud might be com-
of the Council would be considerably diminished
mitted by the governor, which was not to be pre-
that in- făct for many years past it has been the
sumed ; and if committed would subject liim to im-
praetice to choose seven of the vine counsellors i peachment, or that the council might be taken by
from' Massachusetts proper--that this number surprise, which event could not happen, as nomin-
would be as adequate to perform the duties as nine ations are required to be made seven days before
hefore the separation. If the number of members the appointment takes place.
be established at seven it would be proper to re-
Mr. BLISS had not forgotten that all appoint-
duce thc number required at a quorum to four. ments to judicial offices were made only after seven
Mr. BLISS, of Springfield, was opposed to the days notice, but the Legislature were continually
amendment. He considered the duties which de- || creativg important offices, in the appointments to
volved upon the Council as extremely important,
which no such' notice was required. He knew
and he could not consent that two or three men that important appointinents bad been made when
shonld have the performance of those duties. If
some nembers of the council did not know every
four members are to form a quorum they can per-
that any meeting of the council had beco held, and
form all the duties of the Council. Suppose the lie saw no reason why such cases should not occur
Goverbour, and Licutenant Governour to reside in again. He did not impute fraud to any one. The
this vicinity and three Counsillors to be chosen duries of the office were now much greater than
from three adjaceut.counties we should have the
when the constitution was established. He was
whole Executive departinent of the Commonwealth not satisfied that the council onight not to be difter-
within a circuit of ten miles froin the metropolis. ently, constituted.
- This was a case not unlikely to happen. There
Mr. BLAKE was not satisfied with the reasons
was nothing to control the Governour from calling given by the gentleman from Salem for the pro-
a council when he pleases. Suppose a vacancy to
posed alteration. He had not shown that it wasniec-
occur in an important office, and the Council to be essary or clearly expedient. He proceeded to ar-
summoned upon a short notice it would be impossi- gue that the duties of the Council were as arduous
ble that the distant members should attend, and the and important now,, as at the time of the adoption
duty of making the appointment would fall upon
of the constitution.
the members in this vicinity. He knew that the The question was then taken and the resolution
Governour must have a discretion to summon the adopted_281 to 80.
Couneil at pleasure—that exigencies might arise
The next l'esolution was then read as follows:
that would admit of no delay-that it was impor- Resolved, that it is expedient and proper
tant that a considerable part of the executive gov- to an end the same by striking out the whole
lo
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
TE
insert 66
the
men,
1
* )
of the second article of the same section and an upright and impartial' administration of
seven counsellors shall be annually the laws.
chosen from among the people at large on By the first article of the Constitution, any
day of by the joint bal- Judge may be removed from his office by
lot of the Senators and Representatives as- the Governour, with the advice of the Coun
senibled in one room."
cil, upon the address of a bäre“ majority of
Mr. D. DAVIS, of Boston, thought that there both Houses of the Legislature the Com-
was a defect in the resolution. There was no pro-
mittee are of opinion that this provision has.
vision for the qualifications of the Counsellors.
Under the present constitution it was required chat
a tendency materially to impair the indé-
the Counsellors should be first chosen from the
pendence ºf the Judges, and to destroy the
Senate. It was proposed. now to dispense with efficacy of the clause which declares' they
that requisition. Yet he presumed it was intended shall hold their offices during good behaviour..
that they should now, he qualified in a similar anan-
The tenure of good behaviour seems to the
ner. If so, some further-provision was necessary
Mr. PICKMAN agreed in the propriety of this committee indispensable to guard Judges on
suggestion. Some further remarks were made op
the one hand from the effects of sudden re-.
this subject by him, and by several other gentle- sentments and temporary prejudices, enter-.
tained by the people, and on the other hand,
Mr. FREEMAN of Sandwich after stating the from the influence, wbich ambitious and
reasons for his motion, moved. to strikte out the
words “ from among the people at large." The powerful men naturally.exert over those who,
motion was negatived.
are dependant;upon their good will. A pro-
Mr. BOND of Boston suggested that some; pro: vision which should. at once secure to the,
vision was necessary for supplying vacancies.
people a power of rėmoval in cases of palpa-.
The resolution makes it imperative that the seven
ble misconduct or incapacity, and at the
members should be chosen ona certain day. Some
other remarks were made by him and other gen-
same time secure to the Judges.a reasonable-
tlemap'on this point.
permanency in their offices seemsof the great
Mr. BLISS was not satisfied with the article.
est utility; and such a provision will in țne;
He thought it not necessary.to take away from the opinion of the Committee be obtained by re-
people their voice iirthe choice of Connsellors,
He was against the innovation. He saw no good) quiring that the removal instead of being
and there might be evil in it.
upon the address of a majority shall be upon
A motion was made that the Committee should the address of two thirds of the members preso
rise. But the motion was withdrawn at the request ent of each House of the Legislature. --And:
of Mr. Parker (the President) who wished to pro:
this provision has the additional recoinmen.
pose an amendinent. It was required that the
counsellors should be qualified by taking the oaths
dation that it is engrafted into the Constitu-
in presence of the two houses of the Legislature.!tion of some of the other states, and exists in
It sometimes. happened that. gentlemen elected analogous cases in the Constitution of the
could not attend during the session, and the incon- United States.
venience would in future be still greater if there
was to be but one sesaion in the year. He there-
There is also a supposed ambiguity in the
fore offered a. resolution, providing for such an
first article which has given rise to a ques...
ainendment, -that if all the counsellors elected tion whether the Justices of the Peace were:
should not attend so as to be qualified in conven- removable from office upon address, as other :
tion of the tivo houses, they shall be qualified be- l judicial officers are. The committee are of
fore the Governor and such.Counsellors as have
been previously qualified.
opinion that this ambiguity, ought to be rear
Mr. DAVIS moved to amend the resolution be- moved, and have endeavoured to effect that.
fore the committee, by inserting
after the wordt object by a slight change of the phraseology..
room, " who shall have the same qualifications as The committee are further of opinion that.
are required by this Constitutiou for Senators off it will be for the public good' that the Legis-
the Commonwealth.
The Committee then rose, reported progress,
lature should have authority to create a Su-
and asked leave to sit again, which was granted. preme Court of Equity, distinct.froin the Su-
Mr. STORY, of Salem, from the Committee on preine Court of Law, whenever exigencies of
the Judiciary, submitted the following Reports :-
the public service shall demand it. Courts of,
The Committee to whom: was refered so
Equity seem indispensable. to.. a per-
so much of the Constitution of this coinmon- fect administration of public justice,
wealthas is contained in the third chapter of since there are many cases of trusts e,
the second part and respects the Judiciary confidences, complicated accounts, part-
Power, with directions to take into consider- | nershipsg. contributions, among heirs and.
ation the propriety and expediency of mak- devizees, and above all of frauds, which canx.
ing any and if any, what alterations ora-
mendment therein, and to report thereon,
scarcely admit of complete relief in any oth-
have attended to the duty assigned to them, present constitution, have undoubtedly full,
er tribunals. The legislature, under our
and respectfully ask. leave to report,
That they have taken into consideration || believed that such a court must, by the pres-.
power to create a Court of Equity. But it is.
the several articles respecting the Judiciary
Power and are of. opinion that some amend-
ent frame of government, be subordinate to
the Supreme Judicial Court, and appeals
ments and alterations may be made therein
must lie from its decrees to that Court. It
which will conduce to the public good, and
may become necessary, and in the judgment
extend: the blessings we already derive frona of the Committee it is highly,important that
9.
و سو
72
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
the Legislature should possess the power to the Judges of the Supreme Court from any
form at its'pleasure an independent Supreme connexion with the other departments of the ,
Court of Equity, of equal dignity with the Government, either Executive or Legisla-
Supieme Court of Law,whose decrees should tive, so that in the performance of their own
not be re-examined except by some superior proper duties in the administration of civil
tribunal common to each and independent of land criminal justice, they inay continue to
each. This may be effected by giving pow- possess unimpaired the reverence and affec-
er to the Legislature, if in its judgment the tion of the whole people.
public gond shall require it, to establish a The coinmittee propose no' essential a-
Court of Appeals, where the judgments of mendment in the third article, other than a
the Supreme Courts both of Law and Equi- provision that Notaries Public should hold
ty might be subject to revisions, under such their offices by the same tenure as Justices of
régulations as the Legislature shall direct. the Peace, and should be removable from
Of such a Court the Judges of the Su- office in the same manner.
preme Courts of Law and Equity might, ex- The Committee are of opinion that the
officio, be members, entitled to give their rea- fourth article requires no amendment; and
sons on all appeals from their own decisions, that the fifth article has become inoperative,
but having no voice in the final sentence of in consequence of the jurisdiction in causes
affirmance or reversal of their own decisions. of inarriage, divorce and alimony, and ap-
The other members of such Court might be peals from the Judges' of Probate having
appointed and hold their offices by such a been by law transferred to the Supreme Ju-
tenure as the legislature might direct.- dicial Court, and therefore it is not necessary
There would be dignity and importance in to be retained in the Constitution.
such offices ; and probably either by mak- The Committee beg leave to recommend
ing certain high officers ex-officio members to the Convention the adoption of the ac-'
of such Court, or by appointments of some companying resolutions. All which is res-
of our most distinguished citizens to such of- pectfully submitted.
fices, as offices of honour only, the Court of
By order of the Committee,
Appeals might he made a Court of great u-
JOŠEPH STORY, Chairman.
tility and security, as well to the citizens as Resolved, That the first article of the third
to the Government, at a very inconsiderable | Chapter of the Constitution respecting the
expense. The Committee are of opinion || Judiciary Power ought to be amended, so
that there is not any' material objection to that “all Judicial Officers duly appointed,
giving to the legislature the proposed pow. commissioned and sworn, shalt, except when
ers, since it will always be in the option of the constitution otherwise provides, hold their :
the legislature to exercise them or not, and offices during good behaviour, but the Gov-
resting on the legislative will, they will never ernor with the consent of the Council may
be exercised for any length of time, unless remove any Judicial officer upon the address
they are found essentially. to promote the of two thirds of the members present of each
public interests.
House of the Legislature.”
The Committee are further of opinion That the Legislature' may, if the public
that the second article respecting the Judic- l good shall require it, establish a Supreme
iary Power is of very questionable utility, Court of Equity, distinct from the Supreme
and may lead to serious embarassments and Court of Law. But questions of fact in suits
is therefore not necessary to be retained in in equity, shall, if either party require it, be
the Constitution. The question proposed tried by a Jury in such court as the Legisla-
by the legislature or by the Governor and
ture may direct.
Council to the Judges may deeply affect pri- That the Legislature may, if the public
vate rights and interests, and they must al- good shall require it, establish a Court of Ap-
most inevitably be decided by them, without peals, to revise the decisions of the Supreme
the important benefit of an 'argument. It is Courts of Law and Equity, under such regu-
contrary to the general theory of a republi- |lations and restrictions, as may by law. be
can Government that the right or property | prescribed; which Court shall consist of not
of any citizen should be taken away without less than members, nor more than
an opportunity of being heard upon the members. The Judges of the Supreme Courts
questions of law which those rights and that of Law and Equity shall ex officio be meni-
property may involve. Another class of eas- bers of such Court of Appeals; and may res-
es of a more public character may be refer- pectively assign the reasons of their own de-
red to the Judges, involving questions of cisions, but they shall have no voice upon
general interest, of political power, and per- the question of a reversal or affirmance of
haps even of party principlesmand thus the their own decisions. The other Judges' of
proper responsibility of the public function- the Court of Appeals shall be appointed and
aries may be shifted upon Judges who are hold their offices as the Legislature shall di-
called upon only to decide, and not to act.- rect,
It is desirable, as far as possible, to remove Resolved, That it is inexpedient to retains
1
8
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
73
the second article of the same Chapter of the
FRIDAY, DECEMBER 1.
Constitution, requiring the Judges of the Su-
The house met at 10 o'clock, and attended pray.
ers offered by the Rev. Mr. Jenks. The journal
prerne Court to answer questions, proposed to
having been read,
them by the Governor and Council, or either
The Convention resolved itself into Committee
branch of the Legislature.
of the whole on the unfinished business of yester-
Resolved, That the third article of the same
day, Mr. Vamum in the chair, and the further con-
sideration of the 3d resolution was taken up.
Chapter of the Constitution ought to be a
mended, so that Justices of the Peace and
report, by striking out all that part of the 3ďréso
xz amend the
Notaries Public shall hold their offices during lution after the word chosen, and substituting the
seven years, if they shall so long behave following viz." from among the persons returned
themselves well; and upon the expiration of
for Counsellors and Senators, on the
day of
by the joint ballot of the Senators and Rep-
any commission the same may if necessary resentatives assembled in Convention, and the
be renewed, or ano: her person appointed, as seats of the persons thus elected froin the Senate
shall most conduce to the well being of the shall be vacated in the Senate, and the remaining
Commonwealth, and they may be removed
Senators left shall constitute the Senate for the re-
mainder of the year."
from office by the Governor with the consent
Mr. BLISS said-if he understood the Chair-
of the Council, upon the address of two thirds man of the Committee who made the report, he
of the members present of each House of the thought the Constitution ought to have been con-
Legislature.
strued in conformity with the mode which he now
proposed. He, Mi. B. had no doubt that this con-
Resolved, That it is inexpedient to retain struction was correct, and that it was the original
the fifih article of the saine Chapter of the intention that the persons elected as. Coupsellors
Constitution, which gives jurisdiction to the
and Senators, should be considered liable to be
Governor and Council of causes of marriage
transferred from the Senate to the Council, and
when selected, that their seats should be vacated
divorce and alimony, and appeals from the in the Senate. Nothing, therefore was necessary,
Courts of Probate.
but ta correct the improper procedure which had
The Committee to whom was cominitted arisen under the constitution. Not more than a
the Resolution of the Convention to consider
half a dozen cases had occurred within twenty
years, in which the Senators elected to the Coun-
the proprie : and expediency of providing in
cil have accepted the appointment, and almost all
the Constitution that the person of a debtor,
the persons élected as Counsellors and Senators,
where there is not a strong presumption of have considered themselves elected, in fact, only
fraud; shall not be committed to or continued as Senators. He thought this course had been in-
correct under the constitution as it now.stands. It
in prison afrer delivering up on oath or af-
was in conforinity with the genius of the constitu-
firmation all his estate, real and personal, for
tion, that public officers should be elected direct-
the use of his creditors in such manner as
ly, when it can be done, by the people. He was
shall hereafter be regulated by law, have at- nol tenacious of this particular method -he should
tended to the duty assigned thein and re- be willing that the Counsellors should be chosen in
spectfully ask leave to report
districts; but as this proposition makes less aller-
ation in the original forms of the constitution;; and
That by the existing Constitution, the Le-
as it was easy to correct the erroneous procedure
gislature possess full power to make the pro- which had grown into practice, from círcumstan-
vision contemplated by the resolution, if in ces which he hoped the Commonwealth would not
its judg!nent the public good require it; and
again be placed in-he thought this course would
he best. The only amendment necessary, would
therefore it is inexpedient to insert in the
be to make it peremptory on the Senators elected,
Constitution any specific clause on the sub- fither to vacate their seats altogether, or to accept
ject. The Commitiee beg leave to report their appointment to the Council. The selection
the accompanying resolution for the adop- would commonly be made in confortnity to the
tion of the Convention.
,
saw no difficulty in this method, and he preferred
All'which is respectfully submitted—by or-
it to laking away the choice entirely froin the peo-
der of the Committee.
ple.
JOSEPH STORY, Chairman, Mr. WELLS, of Boston, approved of the pro-
Resolved, That it is inexpedient to insert in position, except that he wished it to have one mod-
ification. He therefore moved to amend the a-
the Constitution any provision, that the per- mendment by inserting the words "not more than
son of a debtor : where there is not a strong One counsellor shall be elected from one county."
presumption of fraud, shall not be commit- Mi. BLISS said that this object was already
terl to, or continued in prison after delivering provided for in a subsequent resolution reported by
the committee.
up on oath or affirmation all his estate, real
Mr. Wells withdrew his motion.
and personal, for the use of his creditors in
Mr. DUTTON, thought there would be a diffi-
such manner as shalı liereafter be regulated culty in proceeding with the amendment at this
time. It is proposed to choose the Counsellors
On motion of Mr. STORY, the reports were
from the Senate, without liberty to resign. He un
cierstood that the cominittee, who have that part of
severally committed to a committee of the whole,
ordered to be printed, and made the order ofiché
the constitution under consideration, which relates
play for Monday next, at 12 o'clock.
to the Senate, would forn that body without any
reference to Counsellors. If this amendment pass,
Mr. GURNEY, of Abington, had leave of absence
the Council must be taken from the Senate, which
on account of the sudden death of his father.
The House adjourned.
may einbarrass the report of the committee. He
would suggest the propriety of a postponement cf
by law.
1
74
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
the amendment, till that committee should report. people in the choice of their Senators. There
The Chairman inquired if the .gentleman from may be men willing to serve in the Senate, es-
Boston intended to postpone the whole resolution, | pecially if there is to be but one session of the le-
as that would be the consequence of postponing gislature, who would not be willing to be subject:
the amendment.
to be called to the seat of government at every
Mr. DUTTON did not insist on the motion, if meeting of the council. They would always be
such would be the effect.
compelled to choose men prepared to perform the
Mr. FREEMAN, of Sandwich, said he was op- duties of either office, without knowing which it
posed to the resolution of the committee. The idea was to which they could be called,
which was suggested yesterday by the gentleman Mr. FOSTER, of Littleton, was opposed to ev-
from Salem, (Mr. Pickman) was new to him, that ery thing like a wheel within a wheel. It was
the constitution intended that Counsellors chosen proper that the people should know what they
from the Senate should be under an obligation to were voting for. It was best to choose Senators
accept the appointment; but he was persuaded it separately and Counsellors separately. He thought
was the true construction, and he considered it one thirty-one was a suitable number for the Senate,
of the most beautiful features in the constitution ; and was pleased when he was míormed that gentle-
but it had been distorted by the practice of the last men had thought of establishing that number. But
twenty years. He was now more impressed with iſ seven should be taken out of the Senate, it would
the sacredness of the constitution and would not be too much reduced, and he hoped the amend-
change it iņ this particular. · He objected to the ment of the gentleman from Springfield would not
principle of the resolution, as it was going 10 de- prevail.
prive the people of a voice in the choice of Coun- Mr. MORTON, of Dorchester, was in favour of
sellors. He likewise considered the Senate, or a having the Counsellors elected by the people ; and
portion of it, as the proper advisers of the Govern- if it was proposed to separate the Counsellors from
or, and on this grouud was opposed to the resolu- the Senators, he thought that both might be con-
tion.
veniently elected by districts. He was opposed to
Mr. LOCKE, of Billerica, to obviate the gentle- | the amendment, as it would enable the majority of
man's objection to continuing the discussien, men- the House of Representatives to take from the
tioned that the committee on the part of the Con- Senate just such a Council as they pleased, and
stitution which respects the Senate, had proceeded leave such a majority in the Senate as would co-
so far as to agree to report that the Senators should incide with their own political views; since the a-
be distinct from the Counsellors, and he wished mendment prohibits the Senators declining to act
that thequestion before the present committeemight
as Counsellors when designated for that purpose.
be determined before the select committee on the He thought that if thirty-one was to be the num-
Senate made their report.
ber fixed upon for the Senate, the gentlemen him-
Mr. PARKER (Presideut] thought there would self who offered the amendment, would be unwil-
be great inconveniences in the mode of election ling to take so many as seven from that body.
proposed in the amendment of the gentleman from Mr. BLISS was not satisfied of the force of the
Springfield. The forty persons elected as Coun- objections which had been made to his amend-
sellors and Senators had generally been chosen ment. Gentlemen had not shown that it was not
without any reference to their qualifications for conforınable to the spirit of the constitution. The
the ofice of Counsellor, and in consequence the gentleman from Boston (Mr. Parker) had said that
practice had arisen of electing members from the in the election of Senators the people did not con- .
Serate board with the understanding that they | sider that they were choosing Counsellors also ; it
should resign and afford the opportunity of chooing might be the case. But if the original intention of
Counsellors at large. This practice had been a the Constitution was otherwise, he wished to say
disgraceful fare, and ought new to be remedied. to that gentleman, and to others, that his amend-
Bui the remedy now proposed would increase in- ment went to restore the spirit of the constitution.
stead of remedying the evil. It was proposed that If the choosing of Counsellors from the Senate
seven persons should be appointed from the Senate, was now become a matter of form, it was not sa
without any right to decline vacating their seats once. It was clearly a violation of the Constitu-
there. The gentlemen chosen to the Senate gener- tion, and ought to be corrected. The people
ally accept with the expectation of renaining in night be easily made to understand that they were
that body, because the chance of being one of the choosing Counsellors as well as Senators, and they
seven elected to the Council would be too small to would then select proper candidates accordingly.
influence their determination in accepting the It was said, too, that if this amendment prevailed,
choice, Any one so elected would be liable
to be a Senator might be made a Counsellor without his
transferred io the Council in opposition not only to consent. This was not the case;' for the candidates
his own wishes, but to those of the people who e- for the Senate would know their liability to be
lected him, and deprived of any voice in the transferred to the Council Board, and of course
legislative department of the government. There is would consent to it by becoming candidates. An-
another objection.
other objection was, that the Counsellors would
The Senate are elected hy the majority of votes uot be chosen by districts in this mode; here again
in their several districts, and consequently a major- was a mistake, as there was a subsequent provis-
ity of the Senate will be in concurrence with the ion to be made in the Constitution, ihat the two
opinions of the majority of the people voting for Houses of the Legislature, in convention, should
them. But it will be in the power of the two have regard to districts in the choice of Counsel-
branches in convention to change this majority;
lors.
to put a stop on the voice of any seven of the mem- Mr. WEBSTER, said he had an olijection to the
bers, to put them asleep in the council, and there- proposed amendment, somewhat more general
by, to change the majority of the Senate to a coutra- than those wbich had been already suggested. The
ry opinion. It will thusbe in the power ofthe House convention had already expressed its almost unani-
of Representatives, which being the most numer- mous sense, in favor of the great principle of a
ous body will commonly control the vote in conven- division of the Legislature into two branches, each
tion, to take away the check which the Senate having a--negative upon the other. This proposi-
should liave as one of the branches of the legisla- tion it had adopted, in consequence of a sugges-
tenr, by changing the majority in such manner as to tion of the Hon. member from Quincy. He Mr.
bring it in concurrence with ile majority of their IV:) looked on this as a most important declara-
ovo body. It would also be a restraiut upou the tion. It was giving the sanction of our own exin
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
75
perience for forty years, to a proposition much ent political sentiments would be likely to be cho-
disputed and contested at the time of our revolu. sen, and thus the wheels of government might be
tion. Now, he thought, the proposed amendnient stopped. If the counsellors were to be chosen by
entirely destructive of this principle-Its tendency the people, the preferable mode would be by the
was to enable one branch to control the other whole people, and not by districts; but both modes
The amendment provides that the persons elected were objectionable.
counsellors, whether they accept or not, shall Mr. APTHORP, of Boston, said he was origin-
leave their seats in the Senate. Now the choice of ally so much in favor of the resolution reported,
counsellors is to be made by the joint vote of the two and he had heard so few arguments of any weight
houses. But as the House of Representatives is against it, that he must oppose this amendment.--
much the most numerous, the voice of that house He argued that the amendment, which had been
is of course usually much the strongest--therefore suggested with respect to thie qualifications of coun-
the effect must be, that the House of Representa-1 sellors, might be very properly added to the reso-
tives can put out of the Senate seven of the mem- lution. He thougkt there would be more harmo-
bers, at pleasure. But, considering the limited ny in the council chosen by the Legislature in
number of the Senate, this power of removing sev. Convention, than if it were chosen by the people
en members at will, would be a most controling in- as some gentlemen wished.
fluence. It would, very often, alter the majority, Mr. L. LINCOLN, of Worcester, understood
The proposition then, was neither more or less, the amendment to contain three propositions, two
than that the House might compel seven senator's of them respecting the qualifications of the per-
to vacate their seats;- number, which, very oft- sons to elect and to be elected, and the third re-
en, would alter the general complexion of the Sen- specting the supplying of vacancies at the Couns
ate. This was, in effect, giving the House a pow- cil Board. He was in favor of the two first, but
er to mould the Senate to its purposes. What objected to the last because the Legislature could
would be said; of a proposition to authorize the not know until the time of its adjournment that a
Senate to send fifty members of the House on any counsellor would not come in and claim his seat
service, incompatible with their holding their seats? and be qualified as counsellor ; consequently there
Yet seven to the Senate was probably as many as
would be no time for them to appoint a successor
fifty to the House. In short, the proposed amend- in case the person first chosen should not come in
ment appeared to him to destroy the whole balance to be qualified. He rose therefore to propose
of the constitution. It was to give one branch of a division of the question. There was al:o
the Legislature the power to arrange, and modify, an ambiguity in the phraseology of the gentleman's
and control, and new organize the other. This le amendment in respect to the words peopler at
thought contrary to first principles, and was there- large” ; as both branches of the Legislature were
fore opposed to it.
to join in the ballot, this phrase might he thougit
Mr. PICKMAN, with a view of meeting the ob- to exclude members of the House of Representa-
jections which had been made hy gentlemen, mov- tives from being Counsellors. It might be very
ed in place of the 3d resolution, to substitute the proper that Representatives should be taken for
following ; -
Counsellors, as their places might be easily suppli-
Resolved, That it is expedient to alter and ed by a new election. Mr. L. wished that the
amend the Constitution of this Common first part of the gentleman's amendment might be a-
mended by striking out “the people at large" and
wealth, hy providing that the second article
inserting provided, however, that no person
of the-3d section of the 20 part, relating to shall be eligible to tire office of Cousellor, wlio at
the Council, shall be in substance as tollows: the time of the election, has a seat in the Senate."
Seven Counsellors shall be annually chos-
The CHAIRMAN said there could be no divi.
sion when the motion-was to strike out and insert.
en on the 1st Wednesday of January, by the
Mr. L. was aware of the rule, bnt there ought to
joint ballot of the Senators and Representa- be some mode of bringing the propositions distinct-
tives assembled in one rooin,from among the ly before the Committee ; otherwise they would
people at large, including therein the House be under a necessity of adopting a good principle
of Representatives--and the Counsellors together with a bad one, or rejecting both.
The CHAIRMAN replied, that if the whole is
shall have the same qualifications as are re-
rejected, the parts can be bronght forward separ-
quired by this Constitution for Senators of ately.
the Commonwealth, and it shall be the duty Mr. PICKMAN said if he understood the gen-
of the Legislature before the close of the tleman from Worcesier, Ire had no objection to his
proposition
January session, to fill up any vacancy or
vacancies which way exist in the council by l from the minuteness of the propositions which has
Mr. DANA said great difficulties had arisen
reason of death, resignation or failure to have been brought before the Committee. He bed hop-
been qualified, which shall be considered ed, after the proposition of the gentleman from
as a resignation, or from any other cause in Boston, (Mr. Jackson) that they should have been
more attentive to the settling of principles.
the manner before prescribed.
Mr. P. said that in the discussion yesterday, it
Mr. BLISS was as mech opposed to this resolli-
tion as he was to that which was reported hy the Sea
was suggested that it would be expedient that
Counsellors should be required to have some qual- entirely dissatisfied with any modification of this
lect Committee, aud for the same reaso!). He wis
ifications, and also that there should be a provision principle, and satisfied that the choice ought to le
for supplying vacancies. He had framed his amend-
by
ment to meet both suggestious.
the people in some mode or other. If it wis
He thought it
unpleasant to talk about districts we might substi-
would be most expedient that the Counsellors
should be chosen by the Legislature. The gentle. He thought the people were not in danger of heilig
tute some other word, but this was as good as any.
man from Springfieid, (Mr. Bliss) was in favor of l imposed upon by an improper division of the staic
their being choseù by districts. Mr.P. thought a
into districts for tliis inportant election-an elec-
more inexpedient way could not be devised--and
for limself, he almost abhorred the word districts,
tion which was becoming more and niore inipor-
they had been the cause of so much mischief in the
tant every year, by the additional duties which
U.S. If the choice should be by districts, men ofdiffer- Divisions, it was true, between tlic Governor and
were imposed upon the Council by th:c Legislature.
i
76
DIASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
Council, on political subjects, were unpleasant.- was conformable to the spirit of the existing con.
But if the people are divided, the difficulty cannot stitution and the other was a material and unnec-
be avoided. Gentlemen would recollect two in-
essary change. He read a passage from the con-
stances, under different Governors, when there was stitution to show that it was not the intention or
a difference of political opinions hetween the Gove expectation of the framers of it that the members
ernor and his Council, chosen under the present chosen from the Senate to the council should be
Constitution. This was an unpleasant occurrence, required to accept a seat at the council board.
which he hoped would not occur again, though it “ In case there shall not be found upon the first
might in the proposed mode of choosing. He saw choice the whole number of pine persons who
no reason why the people should
not elect accord) will accept a seat in the council” the deficiency to
ing to the original spirit of the Constitution. He
be made up from among the people at large.
was not prepared with any motion for giving the There is no direction to supply the vacancy from
choice to the people, but he thought if they were the Senate, and it seems to be supposed that they
chosen in districts, the people would be better re- may decline. · It must have been foreseen that
presented. There could be no evil from district- there might often be very proper reasons why
ing the Commonwealth in such manner that one they should decline. If they did not, it would of
Counsellor sbould be chosen from each district.
ten happen that thie check of the Senate upon the
It was not necessary that the districts should be other house would be destroyed, and accordingly
adjusted with great nicety, or be frequently chang- it had been the practice from the beginning that
ed. It might be done either by the Convention, to il they should decline. There were various reasons
be permanent, or by the Legislature, after each
for their doing it. They might be needed in the
valuation.
Senate to preserve the majority there that the peo.
Mr. LINCOLN's amendment was then read, and ple had given. Some might he chosen who were
accepted by Mr. PICEMAN as a modification of
willing to scrve as Senators, but not as counsellors.
his motion, viz. to strike out the words " from the It had therefore been the practice from the be-
people at large," and to insert at the end the fol-
ginning for many to decline, and for 20 years past
iowing: - Provided however, that no person shall the practice had been invariable for all to decline.
be eligible to the office of Counsellor, who at the It was therefore conformable both to a fair inter-
time of the election has a seat in the Senate."
pretation of the instrument itself and to the con-
Mr. BLAKE, opposed the amendment on the struction that had been given to it, by the practice
ground that it was abridging the rights of the peo of forty years, approved oy the people, that the
ple. He preferred choosing by districts to the
council should be wholly or in part chosen from
mode now proposed.
the people at large. It was not expecied by the
Mr. FLINT of Reading rose to offer the reas- people when they chose their Senators tliat they
ons upon his mind in favour of the proposition would accept thie appointment of counsellor.
- now before the Comniittee. He thought it was There were important reasons why there should
conformable with the spirit of the Constitution, as be liberty to fill this office from the people at
it was originally framed, and with the practice un- laige. Qualifications were looked for which were
der it to require that the Counsellors should be
not necessary for the Senate. A variety of tal-
chosen in the first instance from the people at large. ents and qualifications was required in the mem-
The only change was,that Senators would be chos- hers of the council which wouid not be expected if
en to serve in the Sevate only, and the Counsel- they were chosen in districts. There could then
lors would be chosen by Representatives from ev- be no concert. They might be all lawyers--or all
ery town, and Senators from every county in the military men--and none particularly qualified for
Commouwealth, elected by the people with the taking charge of some important departments of
express understanding that they were to choose the office. Gentlemen chosen to that board would
Counsellors as well as to perforın their other des
look round and not find those to assist them
ties. The Representativcs and Senators coming whom they had been accustomed to meet there.
together for this purpose would be better qualified He mentiuned also the difficulty of forming the dis-
to select proper persons for Counsellors than the
tricts. It would be difficult at the present moment
few persons who, iſ the state were districted, would o divide the state into seven districts in a manner
assemble in the districts to make noininations.
that should give satisfaction and the difficulty might
The governor wanted a good council, and persons he at another time much greater. He hoped that
of different qualifications—a military man a good the mcasure would not be resorted to. It was only
lawyer—a good farmer-and many of them are necessary to inake the mode of choice what it had
well educated many different professions. The been in practice for the last twenty years.
two Houes in Convention would have the liest op- Mr. BALDIYIN, of Boston, said it would be an
portunity for making a proper selection. The right i objection to taking the seven Senators from the
of making this apppointment may be conferred by Senate; if it were to consist of thirty.one, that it
the people or the members of the two Houses with would leave an even number and deprive the Pres.
the same propriety that the right of making ap- ident of the casting vote. It would be difficult to
pointments to inportant offices, is conferred on choose from the people at large, except through
the Governor and Council. Most people are not the Representatives. ^ It was of little consequence.
acquainted with the candidates for office in large from what part of the state they were chosen, il
districts and must depend upon a few individuals to they were fit persons. It was an objection to tak-
nake the selection. He ihought ihat the mem- ing them froni the Senate that where counties were
bers of the two Houses in convention would entitled to but one Senator they would be deprived
be qualified to make the most proper selection of their representation iſ he were chosen 10 the
Mr. SALTO.NSTALT., 'Of Salem, said that he Council. The people feel a greater interest in the
had been anticipated in a part of the remarks legislative business than in that of the council.
which he intended to make by the gentleman from No one had a more profound homage for a gov-
Reading. But he wished to say a feir words in ernment of the people than himself. But there ap-
addition. The gentleman from Boston (Mr. İpeared 10 be insuperable difficulties in giving to
Blake,) would consent to no change in the consti- the people directly'ihe choice of Counsellors. The
tution which was not shown to be necessary. Yet members of the two houses in convention could
he was opposed to the mode of election of coun- ſave their eyes on every part of the Commonwealth.
sellors by ile iwo Houses in Convention from the Mr. DUTTON considered the amendment in als
people at large, and proposed to choose them in present forin, as presenting the same distinct prn.
Districts. Mr. S.
lii. S. conte led that the wrist wiode position as the resolution of the Select Commiitee.
NASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
77
が​、
They both provide that the Counsellors shall be advocate the resolution. He asked gentlemen to
chosen from the people in exclusion of the Sena- consider the arrangement which was to be made
tors by the joint ballot of both Houses. It was for the organization of the government. The
with reference only to a choice by the Legislature Governor, Representatives and Senators being
or by the people in some form or other, that he elected ou one day there would not often be a' dif-
intended to consider the amendment. A choice ference of political character between the Ex-
by the Legislature from the people at large was ecutive and the Legislature. The security
the most simple and convenient. "It got rid of the of republican governments rested on he distribu--
ceremony of first choosing Senators, and conformed tion of powers between the three branches--the.
the theory of the Constitution to the practice un- Executive, Legislative and Judiciary. The secur-
der it. The practice was the result of the strong po- ity of the rights of the people depended on this dis-
litical necessity of keeping the power of the ma- tribution Much security, has already resulted.
jority in the hands of the majority. As matter of from the check, which by this distribution is given
theory, or abstract principle he might agree with to ope branch over another. If you destroy the
expense
has shown us that parties do, and always will ex- the executive-paralyse the arm of the executive,
ist; and that the provision of the Constitution and you give too much strength to the legislature,
could not be literally complied with, without en- The council is a component part of the Executive,
dangering an important principle of Government. If a majority of the people are disposed to ele-
The importance of this principle has been so clear- vate an individual of a certain political character
Jy and forcibly stated by the gentleman from Bos- to the head of the government, and you surround
ton, that nothing need or can be added. He was him by a council of
a different character--you de-
also satisfied with the argument of the Gentleman feat the will of the people. A majority of the
from Salem that the practice of the last twenty council chosen in districts may be of a political
years was not a departure from the spirit of the character opposed to that of the governor chosen
Constitution. The amendment provides, that the by a inajority of the whole people, and may control
Legislature shall elect. Gentlemen who have op- all his measures. What then is the alternative?
posed this mode have said that the people should lo choose by the Legislature or by the people by a
clect in Districts. These are the two modes pre- l general ticket. There were objections to a general
sented : and he would confine his remarks chiefly ticket, which he stated, and which were insupara-
to the statement of some objcctions to an election ble. To form districts, it would be necessary to
by the people in Districts. "Who shall form these form an unnatural alliance between different parts,
Districis ?' It is said the Legislature. Will this to unite county to county, where there was no com-
convention then shrink from this task and throw it munity of feeling or interest If the people elect-
upon the discretion of the Legislature, where it rd a man to the office of governor, they wished the
will become connected with party interests and office should be pleasant to him, and that he should
passions, and there remain the subject of conten- be surrounded by a council whose political sentia
lion and cabal, in all the bitterness of party spirit. ments were in unison with his and their own. In
There must be seven districts only. As these would support of the proviso, in relation to elections
be large, it would be difficult for the people to se- from the Senate, Mr. L. said that there were rea-
lect the candidates. In some districts there would sons against admitting Senators which did not ex-
be no choice-another, and perhaps another trial ist against Representatives. If a Senator is.choses
must be had, before the elections could be com- to the council his place must remain vacant-if a
pleted. Four of the counsellors chosen might be Representative, his place may be supplied by a new
of one political party and three of another, and as election. If Representatives were to be excluded
the Lieutenant Governour is ex-officio a member from the council, it might operate to prevent some
of the Council, there would be an equal division. gentlemen from becoming candidates, and the ser-
The Executive department then, which, as its ti- vices of usefnl meu would thus be lost.
tle imports, is to carry into effect, to execute, to Mr. BLAKE was not convinced by the argu-
acts, might be obstructed by a divided council, at a ments which he had heard. The course of reasoni-
moment too, when it was important to act prompt- ing, which gentlemen had adopted would lead to
ly. He was in favor of checks and balances in the result that every object of government should
'the Government, as much as any gentleman, but be accoinplished by the agency of a few individuals
he was also in favor of introducing them in the Difficulties and confusion mnight be apprehended
right place. In his opinion the Executive depart from popular elections, and all might be saved hy
ment was not that place, because it would teid delegating the right to a few persons. It was ob-
to 'embarrass or defeat the fair exercise of the will \ljected to districts that new associations of counties
of the majority.
tended to produce confusion; there was the same
Mr. FREEMAN, of Sandwich, bad been in fa- objretion to districting the Commonwealth for the
ror of the proposition of the gentleman from || choice of Senators. Yet this had always been
Springfield, because the object of it was to place ll done. Several counties were frequently united
the Constitution where it originally was He ho. and no difficulty had arisen. He repeated that he
ped that no alteration would be made in the origin- was opposed to the principle of che report, because
al feature of the constituton, unless to give the it was an abandonment of an iniportant principle
choice directly to the people. He never would of the constitution. It could not be doubted that it
consent without his testimony against it, to taking was the intention of the constitution, that the per.
the election from the people. If the constitution sons chosen from the Senate should serve as coun-
must be allered in this respect, he would abolish sellors. There was nuthing to show that, the
the Council altogether. So that the governor who inockery of choosing members of the Senate, only
is chosen by the people should act upon his own that they might decline, was everidtended. There
responsibiliiy.
was no more ground for supposing that it was in-
Mr. LINCOLN of Worcestər, did not rise to tended that they should resign than that the Gov-
enter into an argument, but merely to state his rea- ernor should. By this change we abandon an im.
sons for the vote he should give. He always re- portant and fundamental principle of the govern-
joiced when he saw gentlemen disposed to pay def- ment for no reason. There should be choseu a
erence to the will of the people. It was because sufficient number of Counsellors and Senators for
he regarded the rights of the people, and wished both offices. The clause in the constitution was
to secure the expression of the will of the people intended only to provide for a contigency not ex.
on républican principles that he was inclined to pected oftev to käppen, He was not in favour of
11
78
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
}
taking from the people any right however small tees to whom the several parts of the constitution
which may be made a precedent for further en- were referred were ready to report, and he thought
croachments.
that the Convention would be prepared to proceed
Mr. WEBSTER wished to know what was the more expeditiously by holding an afternoon sesó
precise state of the question. He did not under- sion. He stated two reasons for making the mo-
stand whether the proviso, suggested by the gen-. tion, Ist, to relieve the minds of gentlemen who
tleman from Worcester was, in itsell, a proposition were apprehensive that the session was likely to
to amend, or whether the mover of the resolution last through the wliole winter, and 2d, the import-
(Mr. Pickman) had accepted it as a part of his ance of diminishing the expense to the Common-
motion After some conversation, it was said that wealth, as every dollar which the Convention costs
che proviso was accepted by the mover, as a part must be provided for by some extra means, be-
of his motion. Mr. Webster then inoved to strike cause the ordinary revenues of the state were not
out the proviso. His reason was that it was in- competent la defray it. The question being about
troducing quite a new ground of exclusion. We
to be put,
were accustomed to the doctrine that offices, Mr. STORY, of Salem, said he hoped the house
thought to be incompatible, could not be holden byl wonld at least deliberate a moment upon the ex-
one person at the same time. But this was quite a pediency of this measure. The convention was not
new question Here it was to be decided, that a a body assembled to consider merely an affair of to
man holding one office, could not be voted for, for day, but to revise the constitution throughout, and
apother. He had opposed the compulsory election to adopt measures which are to be binding on pos-
of Counsellors-out of the Senaie, and he now op- terity. He would not say how able other gentle-
posed any restriction in this particular, on the Le- men ight be to act always correctly upon the most
gislature It was fit to leave it free. There is no important questions, on the spur of the occasion.-
more reason why the Legislature should not They might think their talents fully competent to
choose Counsellors out of the Senate, thian why proceed in this manner. But, for himself, he did
they should not choose other officers, viz. Secre- not feel able to proceed without deliberation. It
tary, Treasurer, &c. out of it—or than that the required the deliberate exercise of all the talents
Governor should be forbidden to choose a which he possessed to enablé him to act satisfacto-
Judge, or an Attorney General out of the Sen- rily upon the propositions which came in succession
ate. Heretofore, the Constitution bas known before the convention, and he believed there were
no such exclusion as this The Legislature ought other gentleinen in the same situation. It was with
.
the greatest difficulty that he could watch the
pro-
ber of the Senate is chosen, it is for him to decide gress of business as it was already conducted..
whether he will accept-in the same manner as if
Resolution after resolution of the greatest import-
any other office were offered to him. He disliked ance to us and to posterity, was brought forward
the introduction of this new principle. It was not and acted upon, without giving that opportunity for
to be found, in this, or any Constitution. He hop- delibcrarion' in our closets, which is indispensable
ed it would not be adopted. While he opposed,
ſor forming a mature conclusion. What will be the
with some zeal, a power to compel Senators to re- consequence iſ this resolution is adopted ? Every
linquish their seats, he opposed also a new and un- moment not necessarily devoted to sleep will be
heard of restriction on the power of the Legisla- | employed in carrying business rapidly throùgh this
ture, and on the will and discretion of individuals. house. It was of great importance that there should
This was a case in which he thought there was
be opportunity for each member duly to deliberate
dauger of too much regulation.
upon the subjects debated here, and to revise the
Mr. PICKMAN said that this principle of ex-
decisions here made. It often happened that after
clusion was found in our own Constitution, as after
hearing a proposition argued with great power in
one choice of Counsellors was made from the the house he formed his opinion for the moment in
Senate, and the Counsellors chosen declined, the
favor of it; but on calm deliberation in his closet,
other Senators would not be eligible.
he found occasion to change his opinion. Should
The question for striking out the proviso was there be no opportunity for this ? "If we mean te
taken and decided in the negative--88 to 222 propose amendments which the people will not a-
The question recurred upon the amendment of dopt, it would be better not to revise the constitù
toe gentleman from Salem, and after some further
tion at all. But if we look to the benefit of our
discussion, it was withdrawn by the mover.
children and posterity, we must take full time for
Mr. PARKER, (the President) offered a resolu-
deliberation, and not hurry through the business in
tion as fi substitute for that reported by the select
such a manner that it cannot be understood. Of
Committee, which he afterwards withdrew..
what consequence is it to save a few thousand dol-
'A motion was inade that the Committee rise lars compared with the magnitude of the object,
which was negatived.
if the result of our deliberations is to be such
The question was then taken on the resolution
that posterity will derive substantial benefit from
reported by the seleet Conuittee and decided in them ? New propositions are submitted to this con-
in the affirmative-221 to 172.
vention, involving important principles, and we ar
On motion of Mr. Bliss, the committee rose and
called upon to say in a moment, whether we will
reported progress.
accept or reject them. He was unable to go along
A nolion was made that the committee he dis-
with the business, as it was hurried already. If it
charged, in order that the subject might be refer-
was to be pushed faster, what would be the conse-
red again.to the select connittee, woich was nega-
quence ? 'Our minds are called into action for the
dived.
Adjourned.
whole day, new propositions are offered and debat-
cd from boar to hour; we are required to sit here
util we are exhausted in mind and body, and no
opportunity is afforded to review our deliberations
at home. He considered the opportunity to revise
SATURDAY, DEC. 2.
The Convention net at 10 o'clock, and yester-
and weigh the propositions offered, out of the
house, as essential for coming to wise results, as
day's journal was rend.
the debates here. He hoped the motion would
Mr. HOYT, of Deerfield, moved that after this not prevail. It was no object to pass through as
day, Wiç Convention should hold two.sessions in a much business as possible in a given time,, at the
hazard of adopting fifty resolutions which, on ma-
He said that he understood that all the commit- turc deliberation, we should be disposed to reject,
1
1
-79
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
:
Mr. LATVRENCE, of Groton, hoped the 2010- have had the subject under consideration, and
tion might be withdrawn until all the committees ask leave to report the following resolution,
had made their reports.
Mr. APTHORP, of Boston, was as little satisfi- Commonweath of Massachusetts.
ed as any one with the slow progress which was
IN CONVENTION, DEC. 2, 1820.
made in the business of the Convention. He sug-
Resolved, that it is not expedient so to al-
gested that the object of the gentleman from Salem
of obtaining time for examination and deliberation
ter or amend the second chapter of the Con
would be gained if the House would meet at a lat- stitution, as that any provision shall be in-
ter hour, and it might then be practicable to hold serted therein, respecting persons who have
two sessions in a day. He hoped that the gentle religious scrụples about bearing arms.
man wonld withdraw his møtion for the reason
The said Committee have also had under
given, and when he renewed it, he would bring it
forward in a different form.
considération the expediency 6.of so amend-
Mr. HOYT declined with drawing his proposi- || ing the Constitution, as that in futnre. the
tion. He thought the time had arrived when we
Captains and Subalterns, the non commis
might proceed more expeditiously.
sioned officers and privates of the respective
The question was taken and passed in the affi-
inātive--182 to 127.
companies of Militia in this Commonwealth,
Mr. WARD, of Boston, said that upon further shall severally be exempted from the payment
examination, he was confirmed in his opiuion of a poll tax for and during the time they
that the resolution respecting the filling of vacan- shall be liable to do and perform military du:
cies, taking place in the recess of the Legislature; il ty" and ask leave to report the following resa.
in the offices of Secretary and Treasurer, would
more properly be referred to the select Committee olution,
on that part of the constitution which respects the
Commonwedlth of Massachusetts,
Governor,&c. than to the Committee on the part
of the constitution relating to the secretary,-&c.-
IN CONVENTION, Dec. 2, 1820.
He therefore moved that this last: Committee be Resolved, that it is not expedient so to ale
discharged from thc further consideration of the ter or amend the Constitution, as that in fų.
subject, that it may be referred to the first men- :
tioned committee.
ture, the Captains and Subalterns, and the
Mr. VARNUM, of Dracut, Chairman of this
non commissioned officers.and privates of the
last Committee, said the Committee had agreed on respective companies of Militia in this, Con..!
this report, which he held in his hand, and was monwealth, shall severally be exempted frona-
ready to present. It would therefore be inconvent-
the payment of a poll tax, for and during the
ient to have this subject referred to them.
The question was then taken on Mr. Ward's mo-
time that they shall be liable to do and
tion and lost.
perform military duty.
Mr. VARNUM, from the Committee on that
J. B.VARNUM, per order.
part of the constitntion relating to the Governor
made the following reports.
Commonwealth of Massuchusetts.
Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
IN CONVENTION, Dec. 2, 1820
IN CONVENTION, DEC.2 1820.
The Cômmittee to whom was referred so.
The Committee on soinuch of the Con- much of the Constitution of this Common-
stitution as is contained in the first section of wealth, as is contained in the first section of
the second chapter, of the second part, and || the second chapter of the second part, and re-
who were instructed to take into considera-spects the Governour, Militia,&c, with direc-
tion the expediency of 6 so amending the
tions to take into consideration the propriety
tenth article of the second chapter of the nadexpediency of making any and ifany what
Constitution, as that in future the Captains | alterations and amendments therein, have at-
and Subalterns of the militia shall be elected tended to the duty assigned them and ask
by the written votes of the train-band and a-
leave to report the following resolutions, viz.
larin list, of their respective companies with- 1. Resolved, That it is expedient to al-
out regard to .age,” have attended that ser- ter and amend the second article of the said
vice and ask leave to report the following first section, by striking out the words
resolution.
thousand pounds," and inserting instead
Commonweath of Massachusetts
.
thereof the words "m-thousand dollars”; and
also 'by striking out the words and unless
· In CONVENTION, DEC. 2, 1820. he shall declare himself to be of the Christian
Resolved, that it is not expedient so to a-
religion."
mend the tenth article of the second chapter
2. That it is expedient to alter. -anda-
of the second part, of the Constitution, as
mend the third article of the said first section,
that the Captains and Subalterns of the mil- || by striking out the words " and Representa-
itia shall be elected by the written votes of tives”-also by striking out the word "April"
their respective companies, without respect
and inserting the word “November! --and
also by striking out the words "last Wednega
Also the said Committee who are directed || day of May” wherever they occur in the said
to consider the expediency and propriety of third article, and inserting the words “ first
niaking any alterations in the said second Wednesday of January.”
chapter" so as to give relief to such persons
3. That it is expedient to alter and amend
as havereligious scruples about bearing arms" the fourth article of the said first section, by
one
.
to age.
80
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
1
>
striking out the word 4 five" and inserting li mend the thirteenth article of the said first
“four.'
section by striking out of the concluding part
4. That it is expedient to alter and a- of the firsi paragraph thereof, the words and
mend the fifth article of the said first sec- it shall be among the first acts of the Gener-
tion, by striking out the words, “and to dis- al Coui't, after the commencement of this
solve the same on the day next preceding the Constitution, to establish such salary by law
last Wednesday in May”-and also the words accordingly"--And also by striking out the
66 and the Governour shall dissolve the said whole of the last paragraph of said thirteenth
Ġeneral Courton the day next preceding the article, which is in these words, viz. “ and if
last Wednesday in May."
it shall be found that any of the salaries a-
5. That it is expedient to alter and a- foresaid, so established, are insufficient, they
mend the seventh article of the said first sec- shall from time to time be enlarged, as the
tion, by striking out the whole of the first para- General Court shall judge proper.
graph of said article, and substituting instead Which is respectfully submitted.
thereof, 'a paragraph in the words following
Í. B.VÅRNUM, per order.
viz. “The Governour of this Commonwealth
On motion of Mr. VARNUM, the report was re-
for the time being, shall be the Commander ferred to a committee of the whole, and made the
in Chief of all the military and naval forces order of the day for Tuesday, at 10 o'clock, and
of the Stale, except when in the actual ser- ordered to be printed in the mean time for the
use of the members:
vice of the United States; and he shall bave
The House then resolved itself into a committee
all the powers incident to the said office of of the whole on the unfinished business of yester-
Captain General and Commander in Chief; day, Mr. VARNUM in the chair.
to be exercised agreeably to the rules and Mr. PARKER, of Boston, said he had observed
regulations of the Constitution and the laws that much difficulty had arisen yesterday from the
of the land, and not otherwise.”
indistinctness with which propositions had been
submitted to the committee. He had devoted
And also further to amend the same arti-
sone time, since the last adjournment of the Con-
cle by striking out of the proviso, and se- vention, to the subject before the committee, with
cond paragraph thereof the words “ by vir-
the view of rendering it inore simple and easy to
tue of any power, by this Constitution grant- | posed of the three first resolutions reported by the
be understood. The committee had already dis-
ed; or hereafter tó be granted to him by the select committee, and two remained to be conside
Legislature."
ered. One of these two proposed that only one
6th. That it is expedient to alter and a-
Counsellor should be chosen from one county ; the
mend the ninth article of the said first section
other related to the time of making the choice.
Mr. P. moved to amend the report by striking out
by inserting “ Notaries Public” immediately
the two last resolutions, and substituting several
after the word “ Coroners."
resolutions, wbich, after some discussion and slight
7th. That it is expedient to alter and a- amendment, were adopted as follows, viz:-
mend the tenth article of the said first sec- Resolved, That it ought to be provided in
tion by striking out of the first paragraph of the Constitution, that members of the Coun-
the said article the words 66 of the train band cil shall have the same qualifications as
and alarm list."
meinbers of the Senate.
Also by striking out of the fifth paragraph Resolved, That all vacancies happening
of the said article, the words “ pursuant to
in the Council shall be supplied in the man-
to the laws of the Commonwealth for the ner provided in the third resolution [of the
time being," and inserting instead thereof, report.]
the words " or in such other manner as may
Resolved That not more than one mem-
be provided by law."
ber shall be chosen from any one Senatorial
Also by striking out the whole of the sixth district.
paragraph of said article, which relates to the Resolved, That in case any member chos-
appointinent of officers of the continental ar- en shall not attend seasonably to take the
oaths and subscribe the declarations, which
Also by striking out the letters in the word may be required by the constitution, before
6 divisions” in the last paragraph of said ar- the Legislature, at the session thereof at
ticle, and by inserting into the saine the word which he shall be elected, he may take and
66 Divisions” immediately after the word "in- subscribe the same before the Governor, or
to."
before the Lieutenant Governor, and any one
8th. That it is expedient to alter and a- or more of the Council, who shall have been
mend the twelfth article of said first section, || previously qualified.
by striking out the whole of the same, and
Mr. APTHORP wished that the first resolution,
substituting an article instead thereof in the
which had been passed over, should be taken up,
words following, viz.
as he had a proposition to make, which he thought
would remove the reason for its postponement
6 The Governour may require at any time He then offered a resolution, which, after being.
from all executive officers, information in modified, was adopted as follows, viz:
writing, as to any inatter connected with the Resolved, That it is expedient and proper
duties of their respective offices."
that the Constitution shall be altered, so that
9th. That it is expedient to alter and a- the qualifications of the Lieutenant Gover-
i
my; and
/
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
81
ed by
nor shall be the same as are required in this Mr. PRINCE, of Boston, hoped the motion
would not be withdrawn ; he had no objection to
Constitution in the case of the Governor.
Mr. BÀLDWIN, of Boston, said he had reason
its lying on the table till it shall be determined Irow
to think, that the third resolution of the report,
third resolution of the report they are to be chosen.
Mr. STURGIS withdrew his motion.
,
Mr. SIBLEY, of Sutton, said the gentleman
taken upon it yesterday. He therefore moved. a
reconsideration of the vote.
from Beston (Mr. Baldwin) had stated that he vo-
[The third resolution related to the choosing of
ted in the majority on a question taken yesterday,
seven Counsellors, from among the people at large
concerning the mode of electing Counsellors, and
had made a motion to reconsider that vote. He
by the joint ballot of the Senators and Representa-
regretted the gentleman 'had ihought proper to
tives.]
withdraw his motion. He thought it important
The CHAIRMAN asked the gentleman if he
that there should be a reconsideration of the sub-
had voted in the majority when the question was
taken. Mr. B. answered in the affirmative.
ject, and he would therefore renew the motion.
Mr PARKER thought the gentleman night at-
Mr. BOND, of Boston, begged leave to inquire
tain his objeet, when the resolution should come
whether the gentleman had voted in the majority,
before the Convention upon the report of the com-
when the the question was taken ; he was inform-
mittee of the whole.
gentlemen that the case was otherwise.
Mr. SIBLEY said he hardly remembered, or
Mr. BLAKE doubted whether the whole sub-
ject could beacted upon so conveniently in the Con-
something like it, and sat down.(a laugh]
vention. He thought they would only be obliged
Mr. WEBSTER moved that the Committee
rise.
to go into committee again.
Mr. BALDWIN said he would renew his mo-
Mr. BALDWIN withdrew his motion.
tion.
Mr. STURGIS, of Boston, moved to amend the
Mr. WEBSTER rose to a point of order. The
report, by adding a resolution, purporting that the
Counsellors should have notice, as soon as may be,
motion was to rise.
Mr. BLISS asked if this questioù was open to
of their election, and should be required to signify
debate.
their acceptance within days after their ap-
The CHAIRMAN answered that he appre-
pointment; otherwise, they should be considered
hended it was not.
as having declined, and the Legislature should
proceed to choose others in their place.
The question was taken on the motion to rise,
Mr. FREEMAN, of Sandwich, moved to 2-
and decided in the negative-218 to 127. ?
Mr. BALDWIN made a few romarks, and con-
mend, so that the Counsellors should be obliged to
signify their acceptance within days afier
cluded by renewing his motion to reconsider.
they shall bave received the notice.
Mr. BLISS argued in favor of the reconsidera:
Mr STURGIS said he had no objection to va-
tion. The subject had not been well understood
ry his motion so as to read “ withm). days af-
by a very considerable number of gentlemon, and
ter the notice shall have been sent ;" if that would
he apprehended, that if any motion were made in
meet the gentleman's views..
convention, proposirig a different mode of choosing
Mr. PARKER said the gentleman's [ Mr. F.]
Counsellors, it would be necessary for the Con-
amendment would be highly inconvenient, as it
vention to resolve itself again into a Committee of
the whole.
would be difficult for the Legislature to ascertain,
whether the Counsellors had received the notice, or
Mr. WEBSTER shid if this question was reconi-
not. . He would fill the blank so as to allow ample sidered, they might with equal propriety reconsider
time for the notice to be given.
any question. He was not perfectly satisfied in
Mr. FREEMAN said it had happened on one his own mind what mode of choosing Counsellors
occasion that all the Senators had not been duly would be the best; he was willing to let the Con-
notified of their election, and the same thing might stitution remain. without alteration in this respect.
happen io the Counsellors. : All he wished, was, The question on this resolution had been taken af-
that they should not loose their seats through ac- ter a long discussion, and it would be put again in
cident, or the inattention of others.
Convention, where gentlenian might adopt the
Mr. APTHORP proposed that the word elec-
vote of the committee or reject it. This was a
tion should be substituted for appointment.
fair course, and the proper one to be pursued."
Mr. STURGIS said he wished to settle princi-
Mr. BLAKE objected to the course proposed hy
cles; he did not care a straw about the words. the gentleman from Boston. He said if the con-
His motion was not to be incorporated into the
vention should not agree with ihe committee, thcy
Constitution verbatim.
would have to change from convention to commil-
The question was taken on Mr. Freeman's a- tee of the whole, and back again from committee
mendinent and lost.
to convention. He thought the question was one
Mr. STARKWEATHER, of Worthington, of vital consequence, and that nore time would be
wished the gentleman from Boston would with properly spent on it in committee of the whole.
draw his motion. He thought it unnecessary. De- Mr. LELAND, said he was in favor of the
lays of this kind, on the part of gentlemen chosen Counsellors being elected by the people, hut he
Counsellors, were not apt to take place. The thought the proposition of the gentleman from Bos-
Legislature ought not to act till they ascertain that ton, (Mr. Webster) a l'air one.
a gentleman has received notice ; and there might
he circumstances out of his control, to prevent his
Mr.SIBLEY, was not satisfied that they could
acţ as well on the subject in convention, as they
answer's being returned. Suppose he puts his ans- could in committce of the whole. He said if they
wer in tlie Post-office and there is a failure of the
mail ; he comes to Boston to be qualified and
rejcted in convention the voic of the committee,
finds another elected in his room. He lias the mor-
tlic constiiution would stand as it now is, and this
tification of lovsing both his journey and his ap-
was not what the people wanted. He wislied
there might he il reconsidération.
pointment. Şuppose a Counsellor is chosen from
a distant part of the State two days before the
Mr. SLOCUM, of Dartnouth, said there was a
Legislature rises; here there is no time to give no-
full house now, apd if they put off the question to
tice and receive bis; arswer, ind it lie should de-
the convențion, it would not be so full probably,
cline, there must be a vacancy in the Council
Many gentlemen were persuaded, that they were
through the rest of the ycar, if the Legislature
curtailmg the riglyts of the people, in adopting this
should have but one session,
mode of choosing Counsellors.
:)
82
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
i
now
Mr. MARTIN, 0f Marblehead, said they were previously before the house should not be debated.
depriving the people of their rights. The people Mr. BLAKE stated as a reason for rising thật a
indeed, in the choices Courselors, would have a hundred and forty members who were present
side-wind voice through their representatives, but when the resolution was adopted, were now absent.
they ought to have norę. Fuis question was de- Mr. DANA, gave as a reason for not rising that
cid 1 by enjority of Gifty Only, and a hundred we migkt Tiave the benefit of the observations of
members were absept, ai did not vote, which they the gentlemen who remain.
should have done according to the rules of the cor- The question that the committee now rise' was
mention. Me hoped the question would be recon- taken and decided in the negative, 158 to 171.
sidered.
Mr. MORTON, then offered his motion, modified
The qucstion was takes and carried for a recon- as follows:
sideration--224 to 134.
Resolved, That the Constitution be so al-
The question before the committee was then tered as that the Counsellors shall be chosen
stated to be upon the third resolution, in the same
form as if it had not been adopted.
by the people.
Mr. MORTON moved to strike out the resolu- Resolved, That the Commonwealth for
tion reported by the select committee, and to sub- this purpose be divided into Districts.
stituje for it a resolution, purporting that the con- Resolved, That said Districts be formed
stitution ought to be so amended that
counsellors should be annually chosen by the peo- by the Legislature on the same principles as
ple, in such convenient districts as shall be forned
shall be adopted for the choice of Senators,
by the legislature at their pext session, having re-
The first Resolution being stated as under con-
gard to the number of inhabitants, and as equal
sideration viz: “That the Constitution be so alter-
as may be without dividing towns, cach district to ed as that the Counsellors shall be chosen by
choose one counsellor, who shall bave the same people.
qualifications as are required for Senators, and if
Mr. WEBSTER-The Counsellors are
in any district there shall be no choice, the vacancy
chosen by the people.
to be filled by joint ballot of both houses of the le- Mr. BLAKĖ, was of the same opinion. Sena-
gislature; the choice to be confined to the two per-
tors and Counsellors are chosen by the people on
sons in each district wbo had the highest number the first Mondaxin April, and when they came to-
of votes of the people--the districts thas formed | gether, and the Counsellors are designated by the
to remain until a new valuation shall be taken. members of the two branches in convention, the
He made this motion because he thought it was
choice is consuomated. The choice is now. by the
the original intention of the constitution that the people,and the Legislature only designate in which
people should hare a voice in the choice of coun-
capacity each person elected shall serve, whether
sellors.
as Counsellor or as Senator.
Mr PARKER, [President objected to the mo- Mr. BLISS, considered that the striking out of
tion, that it proposed a substitute for all the res-
the 3d Resolution was an important partof the pro-
olutions reported by the select committee, instead position. The reasons against that resolation were
of one only which it had been voted to reconsider. not all given yesterday. He was of opinion that
He suggested that the inover should confine his
the Executive should be a co-ordinate branch of
proposition to a substitute for the resolution voted the government proceeding from the people, and
to le reconsidered.
independent of the Legislature. He supposed tlie
Mr. MORTON had no objection to taking the
case that the legislature should wish to turn out
abstract proposition that the counsellors shall be the Supreme Judicial Court. It would be in the
chosen by districts.
power of the Legislature to select a Council for the
Mr. BLAKE more that the committee rise express pyrpose.
and report progress with a view that the resolution Mr. BOND, of Boston, thought the committee
eſſered might be printed and assigucd for consid-
were in the saine difficulty that they were in at an
eration Or Tuesday.
earlier part of the morning, and that they might be
Mr. -BLISS wished that before the committee relieved from it in the same mode, if the gentle.
rose the resolution might be amended so that the
man froin Dorchester would withdraw his motion,
districts should be formed in the same manner
and substitute one merely to strike out the 3d reso-
with the senatorial districts
lution.
Mr. MORTON had no objection.
Mr. STONE, of Boxborough, said he considerca
Mr. PARKER-This would make ten counsel- this a very important question, and he should call
lors necessary there heiog ten sepaiorial districts.
for the veas and nays upon it.
Mr. BLISS meant only that they should be
The Chairman said that in committee of the
formed in the same manner, vot of ue same ex-
whole the yeas and nays could not be taken.
tent.
Mr. BLÅKE, moved to fivide the resolution.
Mr STURGIS asked if the afth resolution had Mr. MORTON, said it }d been decided not to
aot passed.
be in order to divide so as to strike out merely,
CHAIRMAN.-It has been struck out.
without substituiling. He wished to deternine the
-Mr. DANA inquired what was the question bo-
abstract question, and this was done by voting to
fore the committee.
strike out the resolutipu and to give the choice to
CHAIRMAN Whether the committee shall
the people.
Tise.
Mr. BLAKE, said that half an hour lad elapsed
Mr. DANA was against rising. He wished first since he moved that the committee should rise, and
to obtain from gentlemcu a demonstration of their he feit now justifen in renewing the motion. This
viers. He was proceeding to offer further re- was an important question. None more so would
marks,
when,
come up. It was a question whether we should
Mr. BLAE asked if the gentleman was ia or-
take away from the people an important power.
der.
No one of the other reports involves so important
CHAIRMAN. It is not in order to debate the
a principle of the constitution. Many gentlemen
proposition before the committee.
were now gone; it was not a proper time for acting
Mr. DANA thought it was in order to give rea-
upon such a subject. This resolution was passed'
sons against risiog.
yesterday by a majority of not more than fifty votes.
CHAIRMAN. Observations may be made re-
He hoped that on all subjects there ivould be someo
garding the expediency eſ rising but the question thing like unanimity. Lie should not be surpriscal
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
Bon every important question, if it were thorough of office ? Onion
this question,a" majority.... of
ly discussed, the House should come to nearly an the Committee held a decided opinion. They
unanimous vote.
thought the people had such a right. the fun
Mr. WEBSTER called the gentleman to on
damental principle of popular and elective Govern--
the chairman had repeatedly decided that it was ments, all office is in the free gift of the people.
not in order to enter into debate oņa motion to rise. They may grant, or they may withhold it at pleasa
Mr. BLAKE then moved that the committee ure ;-and if it be for them, and then only, to de-
rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again. cide whether they will grant office, it is for the
The motion was carried and cave was granted. to decide, also, on what terms, and with what con-
Mr. STORY, moved that when the House ad- ditions, they will grant 1t. Nothing is more un-
journed, it should adjourn to Monday eleven o’- founded than the notion that any man has a right
clack. Negatived 144 to 176.
to an office. This must depend on the choice of
The House adjourned.
others, and consequenly upon the opinions of
others, in relation to his fitness and qualification
for office. . No man can be said to have a right to
that, which otliers may withhold from him, at
pleasure. There are certain rights, no doubt,
MONDAY, DEC: 4. which the whole people or the Government a as
The house met at a quarter past 10 o'еlock, and representing the whole people-owe to each in-
the journal of Saturday's proceeding was read, dividual, in return for that obedience, and person
Mr. HOLMES, of Rochester, said that on Sat- al service, and propertionate contributions to the
urday the convention had ordered, that from this public burdens which each individual owes to the
day they would hold two sessions a day. He voted Government. These rights are stated with suffi.
in favor of that resolution, but on consideration he cient accuracy in the tenth artiele of the Bill of
thought it would promote the progress of the busi- Rights in this constitution. - Each individual in
ness better, if they would reconsider that vote, and society has a right to be protected by it, in the
determine to adjourn to nine o'clockin the morning, 11 enjoynient of his life, liberty, and property,
and sit each day till lialf-past two. He therefore aceording to the standing laws:" Here is no
moved that the convention reconsider the vote for right of office enumerated, no right of governing
Holding two sessions per day.
others, or of bearing rube in the state. All bestowa
Mr. PRESCOTT, said that the committee on ment of office remaining in the discretion of the
the 3d resolution had not finished their business- people, they have of course, a right to regulate it,
that they had held a session every day, and often by any rules which they may deem expedient.
o a late hour at night, and that they were now ad- Hence the people, by thcir constitution prescribe
ourned to meet this afternoon. · That committee certain qualifications for office, respecting age,
consisted of twenty-nine members, and it would be property, residence, &c. But if office, merely as
extremely inconvenient for them to finish their bu- such, were a right, which each individual under
siness if the house sat in the afternoon.
the social compact was entitled to cluin, all these
Mr. QUINCY and Mr. BLAKE, stated some qualifications would be indefensible. The ac-
reasons for reconsideration, and against two ses- knowledged rights are not subject, and ought nos
sions.
to be subject to any such limitation. The right of
Mr. VARNUM, thought that nothing would be 1 being protected in life, liberty, and estate, is due
gained by holding afternoon sessions. He should
to all, and cannot be justly denied to any, whater-
be willing to begin business at nine o'clock in the er be their age, property, or residence in the staté.
morning as soon as all the business of the commit-
These qualifications, then, can only be made 're-
tecs was completed ; but he thought it could not be
quisite as qualifications for office, on the ground
come at present. The motion to reconsider was
that office is not what any man can demand as mat-
thien taken and decided in the affirmative--182 to
ter of right, but rests in the confidence and good
will of those who are to bestow it. In short, it
seems to me too plain to be questioned, that the
On motion of Mr. BLAKE, it was ordered that
right of office is a matter of discretion, and option,
the-unfinished business of Saturday in committee of
and can never he claimed by any man, on the
the whole, be assigned to tomorrow at 10 o'clock.
ground of obligation. It would seem to follow,
On motion of Mr. WEBSTER, the house went
then, that those who confer office may annex'any
into committee of the whole on the report of the such conditions to it as they think proper, If
select committee upon that part of the constitution
they prefer one man to another, they may action
which relates to Oaths and Subscriptions and other
that preference. If they regard certain personal
subjects, Mr. D'ANA, of Groton, in the chair.
qualifications, they may act accordingly, and
The report was then read, and the first resolu-
ground of complaint is given to nobody. Between
tion was first taken into consideration. This reso-
Wo' candidates, otherwise equally qualified, the
Jution recommends to substitute for all oaths de-
people at an election, may decide in favor of one
clarations and subscriptions now required, a short
because he is a christian, and against the other be-
oath of allegiance, and an oath of office, with a pro-
cause he is not. They may repeat this preference
vision that Quakers instead of sıvearing inay ulirn
Mr.WEBSTER-It is obvious that the princi- || continue it, from year to year. Now, if the peo-
at the next election, on the same ground, and may
ple alteration, proposed by the first Resolution, is
ple inay, without injustice act upon this preference
the omission of the Declaration of belief in the
and from a sole regard to this qualification, and
Christian. Religion, as a qualification for office; in refuse in any instance to depart from it , they have
ilie cases of ihe Governor, Lieut. Governor, Coin-
sellors and members of the Legislature. I shall
an equally clear right to prescribe this qualification
beforehand as a rule for their future government.
content inyself on this occasion, with stating, short-
If they may do it, they may agree to do it. If they
ly, and generally, the sentiments of the select com-
deem'it necessary, they may so say, beforehand.
mittee as I understand them on the subject of this If the public will nay require this qualification, at
Resolution. Two" questions naturally present every election, as it occurs, the public will may des
bremselve,s. In the first place; have the People clare itself before hand; and make such qualifica-
a right;if 'in their jullgment, the security of their tion a-standing requisite.
Government and its due administration demand
That cannot be an un-
just rule, the coinpliance with which, in every
It to require a declaration of belief in the Chris-
jian Peligiost as a qualiâcation or .conditioning to do with any inan's conscience.
case would be right. This qualification has noth- -
It he dişlika
}
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
the condition, he may decline the office ; in like ti however, essential to retain it as there is another
manner as if he dislike the salary, the rank, or any part of the constitution which recognizes in the ful-
thing else
which the law attaches to it. However Jest manner the benefits which civil society derives
clear the right may be, (and I can hardly suppose from those'christian institutions which cherish pie-
any gentleman will dispute it) the expediency of res ty, morality and religion. I am conscious, that we
triping the declaration is a more difficult question. should not strike out of the constitution all recognį.
It is said not to be necessary, because, in thisCom- tion of the christian religion. I am desirous, in so
monwealth, ninety-nine out of every hundred of the solemn 'a transaction as the establishment of a con-
inhabitants profess to believe in the Christian re- stitution, that we should keep in it an expression of
ligion. It is sufficiently certain. therefore, that our respect and attachment to christianity;--not,
persons of this description, and none others, will indeed, to any of its peculiar forms, but to its gen-
ordinarily be ehosen to places of public trust eral principles.
There is as inuch security, it is said, on this sub- Mr. PRINCE of Boston observed thatas he was
ject, as the necessity of the case requires. And as unused to public speaking, and engaged in pur-
there is a sort of opprobium--a marking out for suits, of life which had in a great measure excluded
observation and censorious remark, a single indi- him from participating in the affairs of legislation;
vidual, or a very few individuals, who may not be le trusted in the candor and kindness of the house,
able to make the declaration, it is an act, if not of if in the discharge of what he considered an imper-
injustice, yet of unkindness, and of unnecessary ative duty, lie should not be fortunate either in the
rigour to call on such individuals to make the de- previous arrangement of his ideas, or afterward in
claration. There is, also, another class of objec- the manner of expressing them; and, that the few
tions which has been stated. It lias been said observations which he should venture to make
that there are many very devout and serious per- would not from their want of merit be severely
sops---persons who esteemn the Christian religion censured by those who could not approve them.
to be above all price-to whom, nevertheless, the Inileed, a consciousness of his inability, would in-
terms of this declaration seem somewhat too strong duce him rather to state general axioms than to at
andintense. They seem, to these persons, to re- tempt to discuss and to expatiate at large upon the
quire the declaration of that fuith which is deemed subject under consideration. There are, said Mr.
essential to personal salvation ; and therefore not P., two distinct riglıts belonging to man-UNALIEN-
at all fit to be adopted by those who proſess a belief ABLE and NATURAL-among tlose of the first class
in Christianity, merely in a nore popular and gen- are the riglits of conscience in all matters of relig-
eral sense. It cerlaivly, appears to ine that this ion. Now I hold that religion is a matter exclu-
is a mistaken interpretation of the terms; tliat sively between God and the individual ; and " the
they implý only a general assent to the truth of manner of discharging it, can be directed only by
the Christian revelation, and, at most, to the super- reason or conviction; and thus, I repeat it, this
natural occurrences wilich establish its authenticity. right is in its nature an unulienable right, because
There may, however, and there appcars to be, it depends on the evidence as it strikas his mind; and
conscience in this objection; and all conscience consequently the RESULT is what is his duty to-
ought to be respected. I was not aware, before I wards his Creator.'...And therefore, as man owes ·
attended the discussions in the committee, of, the'll supreme allegiance to God, as the Creator, and as
extent to which this objection prevailed. There the undivided governor of the universe, he cannot
is one other consideration to which I will allude absolvс himself, nor con other's absolve him from
although it was not urged in eommittee, It is this. this supreme allegiance; and hence, on entering
This qualification is made applicable only to the into a social compact, the rights he gives.'up, and
Executive and the nembers of the Legislature.-- tile powers he delegates must be tributary 10, and
It would uot be easy, perhaps, to say why it should in subordination to this liigh and first allegiance-
noi be extended to thc Judiciary, if it were thouglit and among the first enumeration of rights and du-
pecessary for any office. There can be-no office, jies in the present Constitution of the Common-
in which the sense of religious responsibility is wealth, this principle is recognised. It is the du-
more necessary than in that of a Judge; especially of ty and the right of all men (says the Constitutich)
those judges who pass, in the last resort, ou the 10 worship the Supreme Bcing, the great crea-
lives, liberty and property of every inan.
There tor and preserver of the universe, and NONE shall
nay be, among legislators strong passions and bad be molested or restrained for worshipping God in
passions There may be party licats and personal the manner and season most agreeable to the dic-
bitterness. But legislation is, in its nature gene- lates of his own conscience, nor for his religious
ral-Laws usually affect the whole society, professions or sentiments.' This is reasonable,
and, if mischievous or unjust, the whole society is wise and just-in forming or revising the social
alarmed, and seeks their repea). The judiciary compact, let us then take heed, that we do not in-
power, on the other hand, acts directly on individ-
sert or reta in any principle which by possible con-
wals. The injured may suffer, without synapathy, struction may interfere with, or abridge such sar-
or the hope of redress. The last hope of the inno- cred, suci inestimable rights by an inquiry into o-
eent, under accusation, and in distress, is in the pinions for which man is only accountable to his
integrity of his judges. If this fail, all fails; and God. Social duties are between man and inan.-
there is no remedy on this side the bar of Heaven. Religious duties are between God and the individ-
Of all places, therefore, there is none, which so ual. While we are solicitous to " render unto Ce-
imperauvely denands that he who occupies it sar, the things that are Cesar's"-take heed I be.
should be under the fear of God, and above seęci you, that" you leave unto God, the things
all other fear, as the situation of a Judge.- that are God's." Nor will the argumeni hold good
For these reasoos, perhaps, it might be thought that because during the forty years the test has
that the constitution has not gone far enough, if been engrafred into and been in force under the
the provision already in it were deemed necessary present Constitution, no extensive evils have pre-
to the public security. I believe I have stated the sented themselves, and therefore it is inexpedient
substance of the reasons which appeared to hare to expunge it from the Constitution, lest it might
weight with the committee. For my own part, find- be construed as an indirect abandonment of the
ing this declaration in the constitution, and hearing cause of Christianity: On revising the Coustitu-
of no practical evil resulting from it, I should bave tion, every upnecessary point, even the most trivial,
been willing to retain it; unless considerable ob- ought to be stricken out, and every possible evil
jection had been expressed to it. If others were guarded agaiast. The American revolution fully
tatisticd with it, I should be. I do not consider recognises this principle;- it was not the pressure
ܕ
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
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sevils actually existing which iuduced the brilliantly over the attacks of infidelity
. Inquisi.
patriots of the revolution to resist the encroach: tions-Test Acts and fanaticism, with their gibbets
ments of Great Britain, but it was a dread of the their racks--and their faggots, may produce
consequences which they believed would result martyr's and liypocrites, but auch writers as Watson
from submitting to the doctrines, advanced by the and Paley have displayed its true character by ar-
mother country-hence, I repeat it, it is not from guments, which have put infidelity in the entire
the multiplicity of cases which have occurred, back ground. And may I not add from experience
whereby men of sterling integrity, pure morals and that in those countries where there are religious
great strength of intellect may have been precluded Tests, they have not been productive of any ad:
from participating either in the ädvantages of of- vantage; even in that nation from whom many of us
ficc, or assisting in the public councils; but it is derived our origin, and where in addition to a test
thai by continuing this principle in the Constitution act, the most solemn of the christian ordinances
you may preclude them. I add inoreover, that are obliged to be adhered to as an additional qual.
though many positive instances are not known, yet|| ification for office there is either an almost total
ones from the evasion or the compliance is often made under
religious qualification alluded to; if I have been cn cumstances which; while it giveš pain to many a
rightly informed this qualification hàş not on. serions cliristian, excites mirth in the breast of every
ly had a tendency to prevent moral and intelligent | infidel. I also believe the qualifications of candi:
men from office, who may or inäy not have been dates ought lo be confided to the electors, wlio
ebristians; but sir; e'er the irk which was used to generally take them from the fieighborhood, and
record the qualification in the instrument was dry; will therefore be the best judges of their moral and
one of our most distinguished citizeris, and a mental powers, and should it unfortunately happen
most enlightened and prominent patriot (I mean that an unfit citizen has been introduced into office
Mr. Hawley) a professing inember of a Christian -the electors so long as virue; patriotism and
Church,' disdained to hold a seat at the Senate christianity predominate, will avail ourselves of the
board on the condition that he should subníit to frequency of elections to obtain a remedy by a
inake a public acknowledgmentof his religious sén- || change of character; and that ihe evil will be mucka
viments, other than at the altar of the Most Higli sobner remedied than if it is left to be done through
God, although his zeal in support of the cause of the crucible of à T'est Act. I moreover think,
christianity almost bordered on an undue enthu- that wliile the scriptures seem to reprobate
siasm. --How many christians actuated by similar the presumption of demanding; and the
considerations have withheld their useful talents in fallacy of trusting' to mere professions of faith;
favor of the commonwealth I pretend not to state, they plainly point to the policy of preferring a trust
but I should think even this one, sufficient to erase in inoräl worth and excellence. Who art thou o
this qualification for; if all men are free, equal || män; that judgest another ? With his own niaster
and independent by nature, and the right of con- he is to staid or fall. “ These people draw nigha
science is inaliénable, then on entering into the to me with their mouths, but their hearts are far
social compact, every man has a right to enter on estranged from me:"
i Not every one that saitli
équäl terms, but, if the consciences of men are in Lord ! Lord ! shall enter the Kingdon of Heara
,
any wise şhackled by foryns or qualifications, this en.” But Peter; speaking under the impulse of
would not be the case': I submit then the follow- an awful rebuke and a solemn monition from
ing positions, first, admitting the right, (which;how- Heaven against his bigotted views; declared, that
eyer, I do not) of the citizens when forining á social he now was satisfied, God was no respecter of
compact to prescribe such terms as a majority persons; but of every nation, he who feared God
may deem expedient and proper, yet I hold it to and wrought righteousness” would be accepted.
be unjust to introduce a principle into the compact || Whether Jew or Gentile--and surely, man, falla-
whick while it provides thai tlie individual shall af- ble mari ought not to require froin his fellow man;
ford his personal äid--and risque his life for the other and greater qualifications for an earthly of
common defence and yield up áll hiš property (if | fice, than is required from him; hy whom kings
need be) for the maintenance of the government reign and princes decree justice, for an admission
and its laws ; yet virtually precludes him from par- into the society of just men made perfect. No
ticipating in any of the advantages resulting from sir, the qualifications for those celestial abodes de
offices, or from any share in the administration of pend not on principles which in their tendencies
the government, because he differs on a subject may work an abominatiòn, oi may produce a false-
with which society has but a doubtfül right to inter- hood :-They depend on the performance of mor;
fere ; although in point of morality and strength of al and social duties. He that hath from pious and
intellect he shiries as a star of the first magni- benevolent notives ſed the hungry, cloathed the
tude.", Secondly-I hold that this act of injustice naked, and visited the widowed and the friendless
toward the individual is neither politic nor expe- in their distress and administered to their comfort
dient ; first, because as before observed; it may de- and relief, though he may never have made a deco
prive society of talent; and moral excellence; laration of his religious creed, will be invited and
which should always be secured and cher- welcomed by the leavenly messenger to enter into
ished as öne of the best means
and partake of the joys of his Lord: It has beer
serving the prosperity of the Comnion- said ihat the christian religion is calculated to soft-
ivealth; and secondlý; while it may thus exclude en the manners and parify the mind; and thereby
inen possessing such useful and amiable qualifita-
tion, yet it is no effectual safeguard wliereby to and a prompt and ready obedience to the laws.
keep out ambitious unprincipled men froin office, This I will admit--but I repeat it with this l'eser;
pra seat in the public councils. And, I moreover vation, that those adyantages result from its moral
hold, that the cause of Christianity doth not require precepts, and not froın doctrinal points. I will
such a qualification to support it. This religion is say that the omission of a religious test in the
founded on a rock and supported bý a power which Constitution of the United States, or of the individ.
humanity cannot affect-It does not want the secu- ual-states, with as I think, the exception of Vermont;
lar arın to defend it-its divine origin, and its own Delaware and Maryland; ought to operate as a
intrinsic merit, ever have been, and ever will be, sufficient reason for us to erase it from ours; but i
its, firmest support. What have the powers of the would ask whether in those states you perceive a-
world to do with such a religion ? Experience has mong their citizens greater reverence for the
demonstrated that when left to the umpire of reas- laws, more marks of morality, or ä greater dis-
ein and of arguinent; it has triumphed the most play of christian devotion and bcrevalence, lluit
of pre-
not
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
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in those states which hate none? In making the Christian religion, and have a firin persuasion of its
aforegoing observations, I hope it will not be con- truth being all that the constitution requires. Ong
sidered as in any manner intending to weaken the class objects to this declaration, on the ground that
cause of christianity or of aiding the cause of infi it is inconsistent with the rights of a citizen to re:
delity. I make them because I verily believe inquire any evidence of his religious belief. Whý
forming or revising the social compact; we ought then retain that part of the report which requires
wholly to exclude every principle which by possi- an appeal to the Supreme Being the oath of of:
ble construction may interfere with the consciences fice? There may be found, he hoped it never
of men, thereby leaving them and their religious o- would be the case, persons elected to the legisla-
pinions where alone they ought to be left to him ture who disbelieved the existence of God. "If the
who searcheth the heart and knows Our inmost
argument is correct, to require this oath is incon-
thoughts." Whether the individual has or has not sistent with their rights, he inquired if it could be
formed a correct religious opinion is nothing to us, now a subject of doubt whether the inhabitants of
as civilians.
this Commonwealth professed to be a christian peo
:6 For modes of faith, let graccless Zealots fight, ple? But it had been intimated by the chairman of
' His can't be wrong whose life is in the Right.' the select committee, that some objected to this
Indeed Sir! I think that so far from injuring of declaration because they considered it could not be
the Christain cause, I am aiding it when doubt: made with truth, by any, except those highly favor-
ing men are left to the freedom of their own wills, ed persons who have attained to thię full assurance
they will be the more apt to listen to the arguments
of their interest in the Saviour. This was new to
in support of Christianity than when shackled by | him, and he should wish to hear those who enter-
test acts, or any other interference of the civil tained this opinion, offer the arguments on which
government. I will fựrther lastly add, that this it is grounded. At present he should only express
was the opinion of some of our most ablei Divines, his desire that the subject might receive the most
and our most enlightened Statesmen, when assen- deliberate attention..
bled for a purpose nearly similiar to this for which Mr. HUSSEY, of Nantucket, had observed with
we are now in, session_they decidedly declared, much satisfaction, that the committee had recom-
that test acts were improper and inexpedient to be mended such an alteration of the constitution as
inserted in the social compacli-such were the o- would enable the people of the Commonwealth to
pinions of the Rev. Messrs. Shute, Bacchus, Payson, avail themselves of the virtues and talents of the
and Thatcher, and also of the late learned Chief denomination of christians called Quakers, who
Justice Parsons--and I would not forget to men- had heretofore been excluded froin holding import-
tion the late pious and aniable Dr. Belknap. Be- ant offices, because they could not conscientiously
lieving then sir, as I verily do, that to retain any re- take the oath required for entering upon these offi-
ligious test, however liberal, is neither required ces. He knew many whose qualifications were of
for the safety of religion, nor for the safety of the the first order, who had heretofore been thus' ex-
Commonwealth; that it is unjust in principle; fal- cluded. He believed that, besides those who be*
lacious as to the effect to be produced-pernicious long to this denomination of Christians, there were
in its consequences and an unwarrantable assump- many other good citizens of tender consciences
tion of the unalienable irights of a citizen, and al- who held themselves bound by the literal import of
so that it is repugnant to one of the most essential the injunction in Scripture, "Swear not at all, ”
moral precepts of Christianity which inculcates- who would still by the terms of the article as pro-
" that whatsoever I would that men should do | posed to be amended,be excluded from office. Hé
"unto me; this I ought to do-unto them;", I hope therefore moved to amend the resolution hy strik
the principle to which I have alluded will be left ing out after the word Quakers the words and
out of the Constitution now that we are called to shall declive taking said oath," and inserting, and
revise it.
any other person who cannot by the principles of
After Mr. Prince sat down, the Chairman said, his religious faith take an oath, and shall decline
that as the organ of the committee, he would ob- taking the same,”
serve, that it was contrary to the rules of deliberate Mr. WEBSTER said that this particular subject
assemblies to read written speeches.
had been referred to the select Committee and
Mr. QUINCY, differed from the Chairman. He they had made a report upon it. He suggested
said it was a right, which every member should be that it would be more proper to enter into consid-
permitted to exercise.
eration of the amendment proposed, when that re-
Mr;WEBSTER said the gentleman was out of port should be taken up.
order, as there had been no appeal from the decis- Mr. S. A. WELLES requested that the resolu.
ion of the clair.
tion might be read.
Mr. QUINCY'said then he did appeal.
The Chairman was proceeding to read the ser-
The Chairman said he did not mean to make a eral resolutions of the report of the committee,
decision, but a suggestion merely.
not having understood the gentleman who called
Mr. J.PHILLIPS, of Boston, observed in sub- for the reading.
stance, that from the observations of the chairman Mr ADAMS of Quincy moved that the report
of the select committee, it appeared evident that should be taken up paragraph by paragraph; it was
the citizens of this commonwealth had the right to inzpossible for gentlemen to act understandingly on
require of their rulers, the declaration now provid- the whole together. He said they should take it
ed in the constitution. It should be constantly re- up link by link, if a link was found - defective, it
collected that it is the business of this convention to should be broken and those which were perfect
propose amendments to the existing, and not frame should remain.
a new constitution. He did not believe the citizens Mr NICHOLS of South Reading said he
of this Commonwealch were prepared by erasing doubted, if the motion of the gentleman from
from this instrument, tliis declaration, virtually to Nantucket should be withdrawn, and the present
express an opinion, that it was indifferent to them resolution adopted, whether the subject of the mo-
whether their rulers should be Christians or the tion could come before the committee on the other
followers of Mahomet. Had this declaration re- resolve. He asked for information.
quired the belief of the doctrines of Calvin, of Ar- The Chairman said he had no doubt at all, that
minius, or of any founder of a sect, he should con- it could.
cur in rejecting it; but he did not expect at this Mr. TUCKERMAN, of Chelsea, observed that
period in a Christian community, that any objection he supposed the questión now before the committ
would be made to these words. I believe the tee to be, whether the religious test in the consti:
/
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
87
I
tution of 1780, shall be retained, or whether the
resolutions now proposed by the select cominittee
shall be adopted. He observed that, at the hazard
of being accused of bigotry, and narrowness of
mind, he must take the ground of defence of the
constitution, on this subject, as it now stands, He
said that, in reflecting upon the test, he had not an-
ticipated the suggestion of any doubt concerning
the right, should this convention have the disposi-
tion, to retain it. The constitution declares every
man to be eligible to all the high offices of the state,
on the condition of certain prescribed qualifica-
tions. Yet if there was any probability that any
people of colour would be elected to fill either of
these offices, he presumed that no doubt would be
felt, either as to the right, or the propriety, of their
exclusion. There would, without doubt, be a pro-
vision in the constitution, for their exclusion; or,
it would be required, that these offices should be
holden only by the white inhabitants of the com-
monwealth. And if, as is without doubt a fact, nine-
ty-nine out of a hundred of the people of this com-
monwealth are in their faith Christians, it seems to
be as unquestionable ,as any one of the rights of a
people, to'require that their rulers shall, in their
faith, be Christians. The argument of the hon.
chairman of the committee on this subject, was very
simple, but very complete and satisfactory, that if
two candidates for an office be before the public,
every individual had a perfect right to vote for one
because he is a Christian, and not to vote for the
other because he is an infidel. And if every indi-
vidual have
this right, the great majority of Christ-
jaos in the Commonwealth have as clear, and full ą
right, to make faith in the christian religion a pre-
requisite of office. He would say no more on the
subject of the right. He thought that, on no good
ground, it could be contested. The great questions
then on the subject, regard the expediency of abol-
ishing thc existing test, and the propriety of the sub-
slitution proposed in the resolution. On the ques.
țion of giving up the test, he remarked, that an ar-
gument for its abolition was, that the state would
thus obtain, in its high and important offices, the
talents of a few men, who do not believe the chris-
tian religion He replied, that during forty years
in which this test has stood in our constitution, we
have never wanted men, in sufficient abundance,
for all the offices in which it is required. And that
no apprehension can be felt, whether we shall con
tinue to have candidates enough, who will not
shrink from the test, for every department of gov-
ernment which they can be called to fill. The test
is so very broad, that it excludes no one of all the
denominations of Christians. He remarked, that
we should be exposed to much confusion and error
on this subject, if we should consider the test now
required, as having any relation to the very objec-
tionable tests which have sometimes been required.
The test established by the English constitution,
for example, required a belief of the thirty-nine
articles of the church of England. He would resist
with all the energy of the small powers that he
possessed, any definition in the constitution,
of what' Christianity is,
faith to be
required of those who may be elected
office; and had he not lieard the suggestion of the
hon. chairman of the select committee, that there
were gentlemen in that committee, who thought
that a solemn declaration of belief of the Christian
religion could be made by those only, wlio were as-
sured also of an eternal interest in the promises of
our religion, he should bave thought that every
wlio had been convinced by evidence of the
truth of'this religion, and who felt the divine au-
thority of its doctrines and precepts, would con-
scientiously have made this deelaration. He re-
spected the opinions of gentlemen, who gave this
construction to the langnage of the test; though be
could not think the language to be fairly suscepti,
ble of this iniport. As he understood the declara,
tion, it implied only that belief, which is a security
to the people, that their rulers receive the great
fundamental principles, which are the best security
of good laws, and of a good administration of gov-
ornment. He said that, in his view, the most beau,
tiful feature of those parts of our present con.
stitution, which concern religion, is, that it recog.
nises Christianity as the religion of the state, in the
great principles in which its various sects agree;
leaving unnoticed those in which they differ. Any
man therefore, he thought, who believes that chris
tianity is a divine revelation, can make the declar,
ation now required, and comprehend in that dec.
laration, all that it is intended to embrace.
On the question of the propriety of abolishing the
test, he said, bis objections were still more solemn.
Either the religion of Jesus Christ is from God, or
it is not. Fither we are accountable to God for
all our ineans and opportunities of advancing the
interests of this religion, or we are not. If our re,
ligion be from God, and if it be our duty, by all
means which are consistent with its spirit, to pro-
mote its progress, it is a question on which we
ought to pause, whether we shall open the door of
office indiscriminately to those who believe, and to
those who reject this revelation of God's will..
We all know the descending influence of example
If men should be elevated to high and responsible
stations, who are enemies of Christianity, may we
not look with some apprehension to the consequen-
ces? Sir; if this.test had not been established in
1780, I am not certain that I should pow have been
disposed to advocate it; I might have felt a suffice
ient security in the election of Christian magistrates
without it. But it has now become associated with
the sentiments, and habits, and feelings of forty
years; and if you now remove it, you declare ta
the people—and they will not misunderstand the
declaration that you do not deem it to be of ima
portance that our magistrates should be Cliristians;
changes which affect long established associations
should be made very cautiously. The gentleman
from Boston cites to us the words of our Lord, vene
der to Cæsar the things that are Ccesar's; I hope that
we shall feel the importance of the precept. But my
New Testament does not add, "leave to God the
things that are God's.” I am told to RINDER ta
God the things that are God's. And, Sir, we owe it
to God, to Christ, and to our own souls, to do what
we may for the extension and security, of our faith
as Christians; and to give our influence, whatever
it may be, to the election of magistrates, who will
make laws, and administer justice, in the spirit of
Christianity. On these grounds I am opposed to
the resolutions of the committee; and wish that
the test, from which no inconvenience has yet been
experienced, may be retained in the constitution,
Mr. DEARBORN, of Roxbury, regretted that
the subject of religion was introduced into that bo:
dy, but since the gates of the temple were thrown
open he should with hesitating awe enter in with
the multitude, and he hoped he should come out
without having committed any offence which should
destroy his hopes of happiness in a future world
He said he was well pleased with the report of the
committee, and he trusted there was sufficient lib.
erality in these enlightened days to sanction the a-
mendment proposed to be made by it in the constis
tution. It was a lamentable fact, that our ances-
tors, who fled to this country to enjoy freedom of
religion, brought with them the spirit of religious
intolerance. We were however, to look for their
excuse in the history of their times. Of the consti-.
tutiops of the several United States, those of this
State and of Maryland, were the only ones which
were marked by bigotry and ecclesiastical intoler-
This was owing to peculiar circumstancos:
as
а
to
man,
ance.
88
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
ܕ
(
existing at the time of their adoption. These cir- or a Jew, to hold an office over a Christian people.
cumstances are passed away. At the present He had learned of but two persons, Major Hawley
time, this test was an unjust exaction and a viola- and one since who had ever objected to making
ţion of the unalienable rights of the people. He the declaration required by the constitution. Ha
referred to the opinion of the learned, pious and thought there would be inconvenience froni strik-
lustrious Locke, that it was not the basiness of ing out this declaration ; that it would be a disre .
religion to interfere with the civil government. It spect to our fathers, and a national sin. The
was an established principle that acts, not opinions, third article of the bill of rights was at present a
were the subject of laws. Political opinions were part of the constitution. If then it is required to
pot subjeet to a test; why should those upon relig- support the christian religion, was it not wise to
jon be subject to any? They had no rigļit io com- have christian rulers ? Was" it wise to commit
pel a man to throw open the portals of his mind our religion to the care of enemies? He did not
and discover his religious sentinents. He trusted sce the policy of striking out the declaration, nor
such oppression would not prevail in this free and | had any sufficient reason been shewn in favor of
enlightened country. There was no authority for that proceding. The evils mentioned by the gentle-
it in the scriptures, and it was not until the third man from Roxbury, arose froni sectarian tests ;-
century that persons raised to civil offices were re- yet, however impolitic the test act of Great Britain
quired to belieye in any particular religious creed. might be considercd; there was no country where
He had heard it said that this test will exclude im- there was better morality, or sounder religion.
moral and wicked men from office. He asked, if He concluded hy moving to amend the report by
such had been the effect of iests in other countries. Il adding to the first resolution the following words;
On the contrary, he thought the tendency of them being the same as are now contained in the con-
was to exclude the good and conscientious only.- stitution viz. any person, chosen governor, lieutena
The offer of a sceptre had induced princes to cross ant governor, counsellor, senator or representa-
themselves, or to throw off their allegiance to the live, and accepting the trust, shall, before he pros:
Pope, just as suited their views of aggrandisement ceed to execute the duties of his place or office,
It would be said that other nations have religious make and subscribe the following declaration, viz.
Lests He believed that many of the nations of Eu- “1, A. B. do declare, that I believe the Christian
rope had discarded then, and in Great Britain he religion and have a firm persuasion of its truth,”
said the test act was a blot in their statute book.- Mr. AUSTIN, of Boston, observed that it ap-
It was passed in times of political division, and was peared to be the gentleman's object to amend tie
intended to operate against the Papists, but it was resolutution by inserting in it what the Committee
found 19 apply equally to Protestant Dissenters and had proposed io reject. He hoped that his motion
ự was after a long time and many trials in Parlia- would not prevail. It was to retain in the Consti-
ment, that the Protestant Dissenters were able to tution a provision inserted forty years ago, which,
obtain relief. In England, a man now goes lo
the greater liberality and intelligence of the pres-
take the sacrament, not to repent of his sins, but ent day would not have introduced. If it is an er:
because he is chosen First Lord of the Treasury. ror in the Constitution we ought to correct it. It
A measure being adopted by a great nation was no required that certain officers omitting certain oth-
proof of its wisdom or utility. The Declaration of ers without any reasons for the distinction--should
Independence which proclaims, and the Constitu- make a declaration of their religious belief as a
țion of the U. S. whịch prescribes our rights, re- qualification for the office. He did not agree with
quire no test; and he could see no reason why a the Chairman of tbe select Committee who report,
{est should be required by our State Constitution.- ed the resolution, that we had a right to demand
[The 'above is but a sketch of the gentlemans argu-
this qualification. On the contrary, he held that
ment; we do not pretend to do justice to his lan- we had no right to demand it-that every one who,
contributes to the expenses of government and bears
Mr. HUBBARD, of Bostan, said, that what his share of the pubříc burthens, has a right to be
with the sermon of the gentleman from Boston, a candidate for popular ſavour. This was the gen..
(Mr. Pripce,) and what with the elaborate ora.
eral rule. He adốitted there were exceptions...
ţion of the gentleman from Roxbury, (Mr. Dear- We have the right to demand the qualifications of
þorn,) he did not know how the remarks he age, property and residence, because they are
should offer would be received by the committee; necessary to insure the proper performance of the
ħe differed however from both pf those gentlemen duties of the office. But this qualification related
in his views of the presený subject. He held with to opinions which do not bear upon the duties of
the ehairman of the select committee, (Mr. Web- government and are not connected with the public
şter, that the people had a right to require, if safety. This was the distinction--if we pass this
chey thought it expedient, of their officers a dec- line there is no place to stop. No one would say.
Jaration of belief in some religious system. As
that a helief in Christianity was indispensible in
goe were a christian pecple, we had a right to in- Legislators. If the laws would not be well made
şist that our rulers should declare their belief in il the government could not be carried on-if so-
the same religion. The right of exacting this dec- ciety would be in danger without a declaration of
laration stoad on the same ground, as the riglit of belief in the doctrines of Christianity, then this
exacting an oath of allegiance, or oath of office.-- would be within the exceptions to the general
Gentlemen had said this requisition was depriving rule. But it is argued that although it is not nec.
men of their'unalienable rights. He did hot a. éssary for the preservation of civil society, it is
gree with them. The right to be elected to office necessary to show dur respect for the insiitutions
ipas not an unalienable right. It affected neither of christianity. The first is a legitimate purpose,
- a man's lifę,liberty nor conscience. The question
the otlier an unlawful one. If it was agreed that it
jhen is, is it expedient to require this declaration?--- was proper that all those who held public offices
this question was probably agitated when the con- shond believe in the christian religion, he was
gtitution was made; and he would ask, have cir- willing to say that he held in little respect the
Constances changed since that time
We were a
judgment of any one who in the present enlight-
Christian people then ; and are we not now. And ened state of society and with the present. dieans
du not the same reasons continue for supporting of information, should not be satisfied with the evi..
eho christian religron · He saich they were sent dences of Christianity, and still less the integrity of
there to see what amendments to the constitution any one who should disbelieve without examina-
were necessary, He denied that it would be an tion. But this was merely his opinion as an indi.
wend went, to admit a Mabometan, or a Deisi, vidual. And wlio should judge the people-it i
guage.]
.
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
89
!
j
i
their right let them judge-give them means of characters that they are so solicitous. There have
information. But place him who believes and him been only two persons known who have stuimbled
who sneers at religion side by side as candidates upon this stumbling stone. 'One in Northampton,
for office and let the people decide between them. now dead, and clie other-le must not mention
They may be trusted to decide correctly. This is names--but the chair would know and the commit.
the theory of our government. He proceeded to tee would know. The first was a conscientious
the question of expediency. Has the test a good man, a believer in christianity and a member of the
tendency? The test was relied upon as a security, church ; and yet he could not make this declara-
and the people have sometimes been imposed upon, tion, because it was required by the constitution.
because they supposed that the governinent would If this was not fantastical, he did not know what
looks to the object. But the test was evaded and was. If he were living, perhaps he might explain.
the laws brought into contempt. The Christian Gentlemen seem tosay,that it is well to be religious.
religion needs not oaths and tests to protect it any at home; we will be very good in our private ca-
more than it does force. Its empire will be main- pacities, but when we come here, don't say a word
tained and extended by neither the one nor the ---when we are placed in an elevated situation, and
other, bnt the only aid which can be given to se- can do good by our example. When your candle
cure its triumph, is the diffusion of knowledge. It is lit, put it under a bushel, not on a candlestick
was argued that the test being a part of the present He would go farther. There is at this day an una
constitution, it ought not to be taken out. By tak- usual zeal for the diffusion of Christianity, even for
ing it from the constitųtion we no more violate the extending it beyond our own country. But if it is
principles adopted by the framers of this instru- so mischievous a thing at home, why send it to oth-
ment, than they violated principles previously es- er countries to spoil them ? When some think tlie
tablished.' In 1631, it was ordained that no one milenium is coming, they say, put away all the
should be a freeman, and have the right of voting, Christian religion. He concluded by appealing to
who was not a church menber This he contend- our own experience under the constitution. If
ed was the true theory iſ we would have a reli- there was a land on earth where toleration was en-
gious test. We should
We should go to the source-stand at li joyed in its fullest extent, it was America ; and no
the ballot box and as each individual came with where more completely than in the Commonwealth
his vote in his left hand, require hiin to hold up of Massachusetts. He hoped the, declaration would
his right and swear to his belief in the Christian re- continue to make a part of onr constitution.
ligion. This was the system of our ancestors, but Mr. S. A. WELLS, said, that he had the honour
it was afterwards abolished, and in 1651 they, a- of being upon the Committee which reported
dopted a stricter rule of exclusion. They required the resolve that is now under consideration :
that the voter should not only be a member of the that he approved of and voted with the majority.
church but should believe in the Christion religion But his conclusion was drawn from very different
as it was proclaimed by the orthodox writers of premises from those which had been laid down and
the day. At the time the constituțion was adopted, stated by the gentlemen who were of the same o-
by a belief in the christian religion was meant an pinion as he. They deny the right in the people
adherence to the orthodox church of the day.- to prescribe any such condition as a test, to those
This interpretation would exclude very many whom they should select as their rulers. This
whom ai the present day gentlemen would not ex- right in the people he said was, in his opivion
clude.. By taking out this provision of the consti- clear and indisputable. The people undoubtedly
tution we adopt the spirit of those who framed have the right to institute such form of government
that instrument. It was not very discreditable to as they conceive to be best calculated to secure
them if after forty years experience of the test it their peace and happiness; the people are the ma-
should be found inapplicable to our present çandi- } jority, and if this niajority is composed ofchristians,
tion, and he did not think that in rejecting it we and conceived that their security and happiness re-
should show any disrespect to them or to religion quired that their rulers should also be christians,
itself. We only say it is unnecessary to mix the they had an undoubted right to prescribe as a cons
affairs of church and state.
dition, that their rulers shall testify to their belief
Mr. FOSTER, of Littleton, said that as he was in the christian religion. The advocates of the re-
on the select committee, he felt more disposed to solye, which prescribes an oath of allegiance, when
make a few remarks on the present question than they deny the right of the people to annex this as a
he should otherwise have done. In some of the condition of office, because it violates the right of
speeches which had been made, there appeared to conscience which is unalienable, involved them-
him to be more of declamation and fancy than solid selves in a dilemma ; for if it be an interfcrence in
argument. He did not know that the views of the right of conscience, to require that persons who
gentlemen were not correct; he could only say may be chosen by the people to certain offices; shall
they were not his own. He said there was a great
swear to their belief in the christian religion, it
influence in words--some of them had a bad sound must also be an interference in the right of con..
Such was the word test; and froin the arguments science, to require that they shallswear by the naine,
he had heard, he should suppose that religion was of God himself : and what right then, have they to
not a harmless thing ; so at least they struck his require a declaration in this form any more than
mind. What is this test? not what it is in other in the other. If the people liave the right of es-
countries; it is a simple declaration of belief in tablishinggovernment, they have the right of eso.
Christianity, The gentleman from Roxbury had tablishing such form of government as they say
said a great deal in very intelligible and forcible thipk best calculated to promọic their securiiy and
language about sectarian persecution in other na- happiness, whether it be a Republican, Monarchs.
tions, and bronght them home to our own country. ical, or Aristocratical, or even a Hierarchy.-After-
But this declaration had no more to do with the it shall be established, nobody will doubt their right
persecuting spirit of our ancestors than with the to reqnire an oath of allegiance by those persons
witchcraft of Salem. We live in a more calight-
çned age, and it is owing to the diffusion of the
620
Ķnoirledge of Christianity, This declaration has of one of the other forms, is elected to office, and
nothing to do with particular doctrineswe ought cannot or will not subscribe the oath of allegiance,
not to abolish it because there are different opin- he according to the argudients of the gentlemen
ions. The gentlemen have no objection to the wlio deny the rights of prescribing conditions, is
declaration themselves. They all believe in Chris- deprived of his right as a citizen,or is disfranchised
it is only for the benefit of some imaginary | The right of prescribing a religious test is equally
1.
1
1
kanity;
90
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
clear as the right of prescribing a political test. They should however offer a few argunents and attempt
Convention that framed our present Constitution, to explain the ground of the opinion which he had
in wisdom, learning, and patriotism, and a knowl
adopted, and the vote he should give. He should
edge of the rights of man,' was not inferior not at this.late hour go fully into the argument of a
to this. I shall be very unwilling therefore, Il question which had been so fully discussed; but
that this Convention should sanction an opin- merely state a few of those which appeared to have
ion by which that enlightened , body of men the greatest weight. He first considered the ques.
should be declared either ignorant of the right tion wlyether the people have a right to require
of the people, or that they knowingly violated it. from their rulers any religious qualification. He
He said that he was in favor of the resolve, be- thought this right beyond all doubt. The people
cauşe lie was not settled in opinion that it was ex- are the source of the sovereign power. It is an
pedient that such a coudition for office should be attribute of sovereignty to use all means necessary
required, as that which it is proposed to remove.com to promote the public good, provided they do not
He felt satisfied that in another part of the Consti- interfere with the laws of God or the inalienable
tution sufficient provision was made on the subject rights of individuals. To require this declaration
of religion. He alluded, he said, to the third arti- does not interfere with the rights of conscience.--
cle in the Bill of Rights. It was to this le look- No
person has any conscience about becoming a
ed for all those benefits which society were to de- Legislator. He is not obliged to accept of office,
rive from the public worship of God, and from a and he bas no right to claim it. The constitution
general diffusion of piety, religion and morality: reprobates the idea, that any individual has a right
This would make a Christian people if any thing to office. It is expressly declared in the bill of
would, aud consequently we may expect that the rights that “ the idea of man born a "magis:
people would elect none to office who are not trate, lawgiver or judge is absurd, and
Christians. He might, he said, bring forward ad- unnatural.” It depends on the will of the
ditional arguments in Tayor of this opinion, but did | people what qualifications they
will res
not judge it necessary. He however would not quire for those they elect to office. This doc-
conclude without making a few remarks on the oh- trine was already illustrated by the Chairman of the
servations of the gentleman from Roxbury, who de- || select committee who opened the debate. They
nied the right in the people to require that their pot only have a right to elect whom they see fit, but
magistrates should subseribe a religious test. As they have a right to decide now by a general rule
an extenuation, Ipresume, of the crime of violat- what qualifications they will demānd. It may be
ing the right of conscience of which the great men objected, that we ought not to bind posterity. This
who framed the Constitution of 1780 were guilty, objection is not sound. For every form of gov:
he said, that they acted under the influence of ernment is intended to bind posterity. He pro-
those religious prejudices, which made a part of ceeded to inquire, whether it is expedient to retain
that government of which they had declared them-
the test. It is contended, that to reject it, would
selves independent. I had thought, that the gen- be an encouragement of infidelity, and an expres-
tleman wasacquainted with the history of his own sion of the opinion of the Convention, that we have
country, and the characters of those, wise, learned
no respect for religion. If he thought that the al.
and patriotic men, No one can know much of teration would have this effect, it would be an un-
answerable argument; but he doubted whether it
under the influence of any such prejudices, either would have this effect. If all the articles relating
eivil or religious : if it had been so, we should to religion were to be struck out it might be so.
pot probably be in possession of the civil and relig- But other parts of the Constitution will contain
ious privileges which we now enjoy.
an ample expression of our respect for chris-
Mr. STONE, of Boxborough, said he hoped the tianity. In tlie 23d article of the bill of rights,'
amendment to the resolution would be adopted. He the duty or public worship and of supporting the
was aware that religion was an affair entirely be- iustitutions of religion, is fully expressed. Those
tween the creature and his creator and that govern- articles, le trusted would in substance be re-
ment could prescribe no forms to be observed that
tained, and they would contain an ample ex-
should supply the place of it. But he thought that pression of opinion in favour of religion, and
some religion was necessary in every community ; of the obligation to support it.
He knew
that it ought to be recognized in the Constitution there were different opinions, and it was dif.
of government. Some religion is recogpized and ficult to reconcile them, unless all in the spirit
makes a part of the law of every country. It forms of conciliation were disposed to yield something.
the criterion of right and wrong. It supplies to & In this spirit, although he saw no important reason
great extent the place of law-without it we for rejecting the test, he was willing to relinquish
should have no principle by which in many things | it. He did not see the necessity of retaining it
we should be govery.ed. Many laws suppose the though he could well suppose the case when it
existence and acknowledgment of a certain system might be necessary. If christians were a bare
pi religion. Laws are established that require the majority in the Commonwealth, it would be right,
observance of the sabbath. This is a distinct re because it would be necessary for the preservation:
cognition of the christian religion. It would be un of the religion. But there was now pothing to
just towards the Jews who observe a different sab fear. There would be no mconvenience in giving up
bath, unless we have a right to recognise one reli- the test. He had known few instances in forty
gion iņ preference to another, Without religion years experience in which it had been of any ef-
we have no standard for governing the conduct. fect. Cáses may arise in which it would have an
Gentlemen may say that reason should be our guide effect but the number must be small. There may
It is no guide-itsometimes directs one thing soine- be those who have a general belief in chris.
times another; it is not to be trusted without the tianity and who yet hesitate to express it in
aid of religion, and soine general system should be so strong terms as are required by the coul-
recognised by the government. A particular stitution. It is possible that there may be wel]
system was not wanted; they had been in other disposed and conscientious persons who hesitate
countries the cause of bloodshed and numerous e- in declaring their belief in every thing recorded in
wils. But some general system was demanded and thc Scriptures, and whow yet it would not be de.
be hoped the aņendnent would by adopted.
sirable to exclude from office. It has been slated
Mr. WILDE, of Newburyport, had had some also tbat there are others who put an interpreta-
difficulty ip forming an opinion on the question, and tion upon the terms of the declaration much more
his mind was pot now entirely free from doubt. He strict ihan was intended. As he did not conceive
tvare
i
wise
1
MÁSSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
$1
that in the present state of the community, such a
whole upon the unfinished business of yesterday
declaration was necessary, as it was important, Mr. Dana, of Groton in the chair.
not only that we should have good laws, but such as The chairman stated to the committee, that the
the greatest number of the people will be satisfied question before them was upon the amendment of-
with, he thought it might be expedient to reject it. ſered by the gentleman from Boston, (Mr. Hubo
He had not the least objection to any part of it,but bárd,), relating to the declaration of belief in the
he was willing to give up something for tlie purpose
Christian religion.
of meeting the views of others.
Mr. SLOCÜM, of Dartmouth, said that if the
The committee then rose, reported progresss, refusing ths amendment were going to abolish the
ảnd had leave to sit again.
Christian religion, he should by all means be in fa-
Mr. PERLEY, of Boxford,had leave of absence vor of adopting it'; but he had no apprehension of
on account of ill health.
that being the case. If the amendment had pro-
The House adjourned.
posed to require this declaration to be taken by
the Judges of the Supreme Court, he shorld
have liked it better. He wished to know whether
other persons were not to bave any religion be-
The following is the state of the vote on Wednes- | sides the members of the Legislature. He thought
day last on the question of passing the Resolution requiring this declaration was useless. It was very
changing the time at which the Legislature should pleasant to come to the General Court, and a man
assemble every year, from the last Wednesday of would make this declaration even if he did not be-
May to the first Wednesday of January :
lieve in the Christian religion. He asked if taking
YEAS 408. NAYS-Messrs. Abbot, Adams this declaration would make such a man a Chris-
John, Adams Josiali, Allyne, Andrews, Bartlett tian ? On the contrary, he thought it would make
Win., Bacon, Banister, Band George, Boylston, him tenfold more the child of the demon than he
Blood, Cotton, Cleaveland, Crawford, Crehore, was before. Religion was a thing between the
Davis John, Estabrook, Frazer, Hale Nathan,Hall || creature and creator ; it was not to be regulated
Natlianiel, Heard, Hoar Samuel, jun. Hooper, by the laws of men. When the constitution of
Hunewell Jonathan, jr. Jackson Joseph, Little Mo- Virginia was forming, the Baptists became very
ses, Little Josiah, Morton Perez, Messinger, uneasy, and they went to Gen. Washington about
Noyes Nathan, Pierce Várney, Perley, Phillips ) it; he told them that if the constitution was going
Wm.; Phillips John, Perham, Pickman, Quincy, to deprive any man of the free exercise 'of his
Richardson James, Richardson Eli, jr. Russelí | faith, he should oppose it, Mr S. hoped the ai
Benjamin, Saunders, Saltonstall, Shillaber, Shaw, mendment would not be adopted.
Sturgis, Storrs, Sullivan Richard, Taft, Tuckers Mr.BALDWIN, of Boston, said that after the ar-
wan, Tilden Joseph, Thorndike, Ware, Wade Na- guments of yesterday he could not deny the right
thaniel, Ward, Wells Samuel A. Webster Redford of the people to require such a declaration of their
56. Absent 25.
rulers; the only question therefore remaining re-
lated to the expediency of the measure. Would it
tend to make men more christian? He thought
not. He considered it as useless or worse than
TUESDAY, DEC. 5. useless. If a man was already a believers taking
The house was called to order at 10 o'clock, and this declaration would not make him more se
attended prayers made by the Rev. Mr. Jenks ;- and if a man did not believe in the Christian re-
after which the journal of yesterday's proceedings | ligion, it would give him no satisfaction to have
was read.
him
say
that he believed it. He thought the sola
Mr. RICHARDSON of Hingham said he kád a emn oath required of legislators was sufficiente
resolution which he wished to offer to the Conven- without obliging them to take this declaration
tion. He had been well pleased with the motion The terms Christian religion required defining.
which the gentleman from Boston, (Mr. Webster) Some men understood one thing by them and
intimated that he should make, to have the resolu some another. He was a Christian himself, and
tion which, formed the subject of yesterday's de- he thought every believer ought to profess his be-
bate, lie on the table until the committee, which lief, but in his individual capacity, and not as a
had under consideration the 3d article of the Bill qualification for holding a seat in the General
of Rights should make their report, in order that Court. He could see no reason why such a dec-
both subjects should be referred to the same com- laration should not be required of the members
mittee of the whole.
of the convention just as much as of members of
The PRESIDENT told the gentleman he must the legislature. He should vote against the amend-
make some motion, to serve as a foundation for his
temarks,
Mr. NICHOLS, of S. Reading, said his reasons
Mr. RICHARDSON then offered a resolution for opposing, the amendment-were different from
that the Convention should proceed to revise the any which had yet been urged. If we were a per-
Constitution heginning at the Preamble and so go- ſectly independent people, we might have a right
ing on in course. Every day's proceeding he said, to require such a declaration, but the constitution
had satisfied him of the propriety and necessity of
of the United States is paramount to the state con:
this mode ; which had been originally propose tlstitution, and that constitution guaranties to the
by the gentleman from Dracut (Mi. Varnum.) several states a republican form of government:
Mr. BLAKE of Boston, said the gentleman ras Our constitution with this provision in it, would
out of order, as this question had already been de- he an anti-republican form of government, and to
termined.
make it consistent with the principles contained
The PRESIDENT decided that the gentlemaa
in the declaration of our independerice, we should
from Hingham was not in order.
alter a clause in that declaration so as to read all.
Mr. Richardson was going on to make further Christians are born free and equal, instrad of all
remarks.
men are born free and equal. This requisition had
The President told him the subject of his motion been placed by gentlemen upon the same ground
had been decided and that he was out of order.- as the requiring candidates for office to be pos-
He might appeal from the decision of the chair if sessed of property.' He agreed vitla gentlemeii
he t.bought proper.
in the justness of the comparison, and he hoped
On motion of Mr. Webster, of Boston, the con- that requireinent too would be abolished ; so that
vention resolved itself into a committee of the the people might elect whom they pleased to fil)
ment.
}
02
NASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
any oficer The gentleman from Chelsea (Mr. excluded by this requirement. If there should be
Tuckerman) had said there would be christians a few persons in half a century in this condition,
enough' to fill offices. He was acquainted with they ought not to be regarded in an instrument
many excellent men among the Universalists, and which has in view the general good. A remark
he had no doubt there might be enough of them had fell from the learned
gentleman from Newbu-
found capable to fill all offices ; but this was no ryport, (Mr. Wilde) which be thought was not so
reason for confining the selection to that class. He sound as was to be expected from that quarter.
was not a deist, but from what he understood of He (Mr. W.) had said that; as the Cominonwealth
their tenets, there might be very good men among was generally Christian, Jittle danger or inconven-
them every way capable of sustaining any civil ience was to be apprehended from striking out this
office, and the community ought not to lose their | declaration, as few men not Christians would be e-
services because they had not a qualification which lecled ; whereas if thë state had been nearly equal-
has nothing to do with the fitness for office: This ly balanced between Christianity and some other
requisition was anti-republican and repugnant to religion, it would be proper to have such a provis-
the liberties of the people. He said he would no- ion. He did not disagree with the gentleman on
tice one argument which had been used on the the last point ; but the argument would be stronger
other side, viz, that this exclusion would exclude
for abolishing the acquirement, because it would
nobody, if so, he would ask why not strike it out exclude more persons from the government. He
of the constitution,
hoped this declaration would remain in the consti-
Mr. BLISS, of Springfield said that believing | tution; and tlíat the amendment would prevail.
the right of the people to exact such a declaration Mr. DEAN, of Boston, said if he was persuad-
äs is contained in the ainendment and being satis- ed that retaining tliis declaration in the constitu-
fied in general with the arguments which had been tion would do any good or reflect honor on the
árged in favor of retaining such a declaration in the
commonwealth, he would retain it; but he was far
eonstitutiou he should trouble the committee with from being of that opinion. The design of making
but a few remarks. He differod in opinion from this declaration of belief in ihe Christiani religion
gentlemen who had said this declaration was in the was not Evangelical—it was not construed to in-
, nature of an oath. It was not so ; there was now clude all that is contained in such a profession of
thing in it like calling God to witness or like a religion, and lie asked whether it was proper to
it was a declaration merely; to be suh- :-have two ways of professing religion; one evangel-
scribed in the presence of several persons. He ical, the other a matter of state policy. It was ima
should not have risen bowever on account of his portant that men who rule over a Christian coun-
dissent on this point. He differed as to other try should be Christians, but it should be effected
points from several gentlemen who had expressed by other means than by the constitution. Let no le-
their sentiments. The more the constitution was gal incapacity of this kind interfere between the
examined; the more perfect appeared the symme- peoplc and their choice of rulers. It had been
try of its parts. There was a fitness in requiring said to be the duty of the government, to
this declaration to be made by the persons men- bring all their influence to the support of Chris-
tioned in the constitution, because the constitution tianity ; lie doubted it. Let there be the example
enjoinş it upon those persons to provide for the of good Legislators ; this was better than all their
support of the Christian religion. 'It is not made a
entries in the journal. Their religion should be vols
part of the duty of the judges
of the Supreme Court untary; not compelled. You may burn a man at the
to provide for the support of christianity, and they stake, but you cảnnot convert him in that manner. If
are therefore not required to make this declaration. Legislators are not good mėn, it produces a bad ef:
In relation to the question of expediency, he made fect to have their declaration staring them in the face.
à distinction between inserting such a provision in Let a man's concience and his duty to God lead
ä new constitụtion, and striking it out of a consti- him ,
tution which had been in operation so long as our be Christians, let there be good examples-let
constitution. He would not say how he should act Christian ministers do their work-support relig-
in the former case, but he thought to strike the ious institutions and the less legislation, the bet-
declaration out of our constitution, would have a ter. The religion of England was not o'wing to
deplorable effect He insisted upon the impor- her test acts and corporation oaths, but to her
tance of sustaining religion and morality. Every Bishoprics, her Deaneries, &c. Surely, Mr;
thing which looked like a disregard to religion, Chairman, this is a much better mode for us to a-
had an injurious effect, and he was persuaded that dopt than to have recourse to religious tests.
striking out this clause would häve a bad effect on Leave religion to thië care of God and it will spread
many minds, whether justly or not he would not say. its influence over the globe.
What was said of the religious scruples of different Mr. FREEMAN, of Sandwich, said he rose as
sects deserved very little eonsideration. This decla- a humble individual to lift his voice agaiost'the réa
ration had nothing to do with sects or particular doc- ll jection of the declaration. Alluding to tlre quarter
trines. Nothing was said in it of the effect it was to from which niúch of the opposition to it had come,
have on particular uninds; it did notinclude thie prac- iſ he might use the sentiment of a profané author
ticaliuftuence which some gentlemen seemed to sup- upon so sacred a subject; le could not trut exclaim
pose; it required only a firın persuasion of the truth of cand thou toö Brutus—this is the unkindest cut of
the Christian religion. Buteven ifthere were a few all.” He was surprised to hear sở many ininistérs
men who put şucli an erroneous construction upon of the gospel whom he might have expected to be
it, the good of tlie community should not be sacri- always ready to advocate the cause of religion and
ficed for their sakes. Îl bad been said that this re- ñoralily, giving their testimony in favour of ex-
quisition would have but little influence on people; punging this articlé. He asked what practical in-
lie ilouglit otherwise. He thought that men exalt- jury had resulted from the article, and whạt prac-
ed to the office of legislators would deem it of im- lical benefit would result from exchanging it. Who
portance to tell what They really lelieved. An oath and what are we? Are we not descendants of the
inight have no effect on some minds; they could Pilgrims, who suffered so many hardships for the
not help ir, though it would be a deplorable thing. purpose of securing the privilege of worshipping
Ought oaths therefore to be abolished ? It was just God and preserving the institutions of religion in
so with this declaration. He deplored the influ- their purity, now engaged in the work of establish-
ence which the striking out this declaration would ing civil government under the auspices of the
bave on the minds of people, and particularly of Christian religion? It was formerly required that
youth, le had been said that good men would be a person' should be a church members to enlité
1
4 A
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENČION.
1
93
Him to participate in the government; and at this and then converted, indeed, but to nothing; almost a
time the people have an undoubted right to make universal skeptic. But for the injudicious treatment
church-menibership a qualification for office. In of his parent, he might have done as much honor
his opinion men of beiter lives and more useful to Christianity,as his means allowed him to offer ins
meinbers of society would now become rulers, if || jury. Sìch a man was not afraid to enter upon
such were the qualification. It would have a good office; and wlien required to express his assent to
effect upon the individual and upon the communi- such a declaration as this proposed, he eithér does
ty. He would have no objection to demand such or does not He does, and declaresan untruth.
a qualification in the chief magistrate. He was an But with his hypocrisy he passes equally as well as
advocate for religious liberty. He hoped never to the majority of firm believers around him-and
see the spirit of the constitution as it respects re- will not this prevent his fair and full inquiry, when
ligious.freedom departed from. He would have no it is unnecessary for his purpose. Or, Sir, be does
sect preferred; no restraint upon the consciences, not declare his assent, and forever after acquires
opinions, or even caprices of men. liet them go a prejudice against the religion that opposes his
where they please,but in a Christian country let it be entry to office. Yet, Sir, that man I would have
required that candidates for office shall be Christians. voted for as a candidate for political power, much
He alluded to an argument which had been found- as I differ from his opinions on religion. I would
ed upon the omission to require the test from judg- not insist on his declaring his belief of Christianity;
es of the Supreme Judicial Court. He said that as because it might prevent his conversion 'to it.
In
the judges are appointed by the executive, this re- Hour own country too; many distinguished men at
striction upon the discretion was necessary-care: some time in their lives have not enjoyed a settled
being taken to preserve the purity of the fountain; || faith in Christianity I have been informed on high
the streams would be pure. The inhabitants of the authority, it is not to be sure within my own knowl.
town he represented were a Christian people, and edge, that the illustrious President of the Conven:
he should be ashamed to go home and meet them tion of 1780, the venerable Bowdoin, afterwards
after having expunged this declaration from the Governor of the Commonwealth, was many years
constitution,
not a believer in our religion. Yet he held
Mr. SAVAGE said;
the proposed amendment is office with great approbation of his constituents,
only the words of the Constitution of 1780. [Here and was deserving of it, as an honest man. After-
an interruption occurred' by repeated and con- wards by following the current of evidence, on due
fused calls of the question; which was terminated conviction, he declared bis assent. But while in
by the Chairman, who said the highest honour of the state of uncertainty, had the test been proposed
his life was then to preside in the deliberations,
conjuring the members of the committee to per quences either of his assent or rejection ? · Sich is
o le evil conse.
mit the progress of debate.] The language of the often the case of the truest asserters of the faith
Constitution, requiring all officers, executive or Many reach to middle age, who have never been
legislative, to declare their belief in the Christian called by their circumstances to examine the opin-
religion and firm persuasion of its truth, does not ions heedlessly received, almost by infusion, in
seem a heavy restriction. It is a declaration which their early childhood, and then find them, or some
the great majority, he hoped he might say every of them unfounded, and thinkiug the whole must
member of this Convention, would make with rea- go together, have rejected at once the substance
diness. He had taken it with pleasure several and the accidents, Sone they are told are funda-
years since, and would not object on his own ac- mentals, 'which they are sure are false; and strips
count. But he wished to have the restriction on ping off these, they suppose the whole false, be-
other's removed, and more especially claimed the cause they have not learned to distinguish the parts.
right to give his reasons,because thure which chief- He wished every man to come into office without
ly operated on his mind had not in the debate been a prejudice against the Christian religion, if he had
stated by gentlemen in full. Not, sir, that any sup- not studied it sufficiently to acquire satisfaction of
porters of the test should be charged by me with its truth, and thus he thought our principles would
bigotry; nor because our fathers who formed the be more sure to, prevail; and for this reason he
Constitution should be blamed as narrow and ex- hoped the amendment would not be adopted.
clusive in their principles'; but because the result Mr: WALKER; of Templeton, was one of the
of the restriction is injurious to Christianity. select committee who reported this resolution, and
The majority of mankind receive their religious he rose to express some of his reasons for voting in
principles, as their other education, from their par: favor it. Ttie majority of the people had the right
ents and teachers, and they perhaps retain them to adopt such rules as they should think proper for
lthout inquiry:
' promoting the public good, provided they did not
and many such there are, when they begin to em: interfere with the unalienable rights of individuals.
ploy the principles instilled into them in infancy, The right of every one to be protected in the en-
and to reason about
them, often have painful and joyment of life, liberty and property were admitted
harassing doubts. These doubts require examina- to be fundamental principles. As it regards the
tion, and it cannot be perfectly had by men of right of demanding a religious qualification in a
even great advantages of education; so as to lead candidate for office, there is a difference of opin-
soon to certainty. Not always one year or two ion. Admitting that we have the right to demand
will do. Half of life passes sometimes before full it-le donbted the expediency of it. He was op-
conviction. Yet these doubts, sir, are a proof of posed to it, because it did no good. If it was a re-
honesty; and if such men are excluded from of- al qualification he would retain it. The experience
fice, till their doubts are removed; an improper of forty years had not shown it to be of any úse...
bias in one case; or a prejudice in the other, is giva If there are infidels it will not operate to ex-
en. He could enumerate many most distinguish- clude them from office. A deist would con-
ed men; opposed to our religiong from a misfor- sider it an imposition that he should be com-
tune in their early education, who had done great pelled to make the declaration; and would make it
honor to letters, and injury to Christianity, for | though he did not believe it. Men of loose lives
which their instructors were chiefly to be blamed. will make the declaration--they have made it
But he would spare the patience of the committee. there have been bad men who have come forward
He could not, however, omit one. The celebrat- and made the declaration, considering it an impo-
ed Gibbon, born and educated a protestant, con- sition, and that they are not bound hy it. The con
verted or perverted to the Romnish church,banislied stituents ought to be judges of the character of
by his father to a foreign land to be converted again, those they elect--they know them and will detour
18
ga
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
1
mine their qualifications. He did not agree that he should resist every such change as long as baie
the constitution should be approached with that had any power
awe and trembling which would deprive us of our The question was then taken on the amendmenty
senses. The constitution of the United States was and decided in the negative, 176 to 242.
the work of great and wise men, and they did not The question was then stated on the adoption of
consider a religious test necessary. He was not a- the resolution as reported by the select committee
fraid that our constituents'would think that we were and decided in the affirmative.
treating religion with contempta-they are an en- Mr: WARE of Boston, then offered a resolutions
lightened people and are capable of judging. He which, after some conversation respecting the most
thought it his dnty to'give his voice in favor of the
suitable time for considering it, he withdrew. The
resolution.
purport of the Resolution was that the Constitu-
Mr. STURGIS, of Boston, said that no gentle- tion should require in candidates for office, the
man had attempted to show that the test had pro- reputation of being believers in the Christian relig- .
duced any harn. He thought it incumbent on ion.
them to show this, to authorize striking it out of The second resolution, which declares what of
the constitution where we now find it. In answer fices holden under the Constitution shall be con-
to the argument of the gentleman last speaking sidered incompatible; was then taken into consid-
founded upon the example of the U. S. constitu- eration,
tion, he contended there was no analogy between
the two cases. He remarked in answer to the ar-
Mr. WEBSTER said, that aš the Constitution
gument of the gentleman from Boston, that it would
was framed before that of the United States, there
operate to exclude from office men who have not
was necessarily a deficiency in that part of it which
made up their minds upon the evidences of Chris-
relates to incompatibility of offices. The present
tianity, that he would not do gentlemen so situated
résolution first provides that no person holding any
so great an injury as to divert their minds from the
office under the authority of the U. S. Post Mas-
important duty of satisfying themselves on this sub-
ters excepted, shall at the same time hold the of.
ject by calling them to public offices where their
fice of Governor, Lieut. Governor or Counsellor,
services could
be very well dispensed with.
or have a seat in the Senate or House of Repre.
Mr. HUSSEY, of Nantucket said the object of
sentatives of this Commonwealth. It next pro-
the Convention was to make such alterations and
vides that no Judge of any Court in this Common-
- amendments in the Constitution as may be deemed
wealth and several other officers, shall continue to
necesssary and expedient. Is it necessary to ex-
hold their offices after accepting the trust of a
punge that part of the Constitution which requires
menber of Congress; and that Judges of the
a declaration of a belief in the Christian religion,
Courts of Common Pleas shall hold no other office:
is a question truly inomentous and important. I
except that of Justice of the Peace, and militia of-
would ask, sir, what benefit can possibly result to fices. He proceeded first to inquire whether it
the citizens of this Commonwealth, froin throwing
was proper to provide that no Judges of any Court
open the doors, and admitting a race of unbeliev-
should sit in the legislature. The prohibition is
ers to the rights of legislation. By introducing
now confined to Justices of the Supreme Judicial
them to important offices, and to a seat in our Le-
Court The committee thought that there was no
gislature, we' sball add to their weight and infiu-
objection to extending it to Judges of the Courts
ence, and consequently promote the growth of in-
of Common Pleas and other Courts. They went
fidelity. With these views, I shall be in favour of
on the presumption that when an office was estal-
Petaining the religious test:
lished, it would be one which demanded as much
Mr. FLINT of Reading spoke in favor of the
attention as the incumbent could conveniently give
amendment to the resolution. After expressing
to it. There was besides an impropriety in mix-
his respect for the framers of the Constitution, his
ing the legislative and judicial departments. In all,
reluctance to change any important principle which
the courts there was business of importance.-
they had established, the interest which pious and
Since the establishment of the Constitution, the
good men feel in the preservation of this principle
Courts of Common Pleas had much increased in
of the constitution and the tears which they would importance and dignity, and they were likely still
shed if it were to be rejected, he proceeded to ar-
to increase, and it was therefore more expedient
gue that no advantage would be gained by admit-
that the Judges should confine their attention to
ting to important offices men who have not a firm the duties of their offices. There was also an ob-
persuasion of the truths of Christianity.
jection to their holding a seat in the Legislature
Mr. WILLIAMS of Beverly contended that
from the manner in which they are elected. It
there was more danger of insincere professions of seemed improper that the Judges of the land
belief if ihey were demanded as a qualification for
should become candidates for popular favor at the
office, than there was in professions on admission
annual elections. In proposing to exclude officers
to the church. The temptation of office may lead
of the U. S. from the higher offices in the Cont-
to false professions. If he understands the lan-
monwealth and from a seat in the legislature, they
guage of the declaration required by the constitu- had followed the example of almost all the State
tion, it demands that belief which is required for
Constitutions recently formed The general prin-
adinission to the church of God. It contains all ciple would exclude Post Masters, but this office is
that language can embrace, and he had yet to learn in a large proportion of cases' one of no emolu-
the propriety of requiring as a qualification for of- ment but of some trust, and it appeared not advisa.
fice such a religious profession. Gentlemen had
ble to exclude from the scope of the Post Malter
expressed a reluctance to expunge this requisition
General in making these appointmeots so many
from the Constitution on account of its antiquity.
persons as would be excluded, if the acceptance of
He had not tbis 'respect for antiquity. Brahma
the office were to shut them out from all offices un-
aud Confucius were more ancient than Christiani-
der the State Government.
ty itself. He thought it his duty to raise his voice
After several ineffectual attempts to amend tha
against the amendment, and hoped it would not
resolution, it was finally adopted without alteration.
succeed.
The third resolution of the Select Committee,
Mr. J. PHILLIPS of Boston, replied to some
which provides the mode in which amendments
of the arguments against the amendnient. He was
shall be hereafter made to the Constitution, was
opposed to any change in this part of the constitu-
then taken up.
tion as a departure from the example of our ances-
Mr. NICHOLS moved to strike out the words
tors, and as part of a system of innovation which
« two thirds" with a view of inserting " a majori
would land to weaken the supports of relgion, and
ty" or " three fiflls.''
1
1
+
:
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION1
,
.
1
for
ma-
Mr.-WEBSTER said, that if these words were 1. Resolved, That it is proper and expedi-
struck out they could not be again inserted. But
ent so far to alter and amend the Constitui
if the proposition should on a yote be disapproved,
any other proportion could be substituted. Thc
tion, as to provide, that there shall be annu-
committee in filling the blank were governed both ally elected, by the free-holders and other in-
by their own sense of what would be the most habitants of the Commonwealth, chirty six
proper number, and by the consideration that this
persons to be Senators for the year ensuing
being tlie highest number which would probably
their election.
A be proposed, would necessarily be first put. They
2. Resolved, That it is proper and expedi-
thought the convention would have a view to the
permanency of the constitution and would supposé ent so far to alter and amend the Constitution
that it would be necessary to change it only for as to provide that the number of Districts into
practical purposes. It had been found in the
prac- which the Commonwealth shall be divided
tice of forty years that it had served to protect all
the essential rights of the citizens--that the great
or the purpose of electing Senators, shall
never be less than ten.
outlines were so established as to need no altera-
tion., It was thought therefore that a provision for 3. Resolved, That it is proper and expedi-
a general revision was unnecessary.
ent further to alter and amend the Constitu-
Any plain sensible and useful alterations which
tion so as to provide, that no county shall be
might be suggested, the people would see, and in
the mode proposed would easily be effected. It
divided for the purpose of forming a district
was not thought proper that the Legislature should
for the election of Senators.
have the power of submitting such alterations to 4. Resolved, That it is proper and expedi-
the people by a small majority. But if the altera- ent so to alter and amend the Constitution as
tion was obviously useful and necessary, the public
to provide, that the several counties in this
spinion would demand that the Legislature should
sanction it by the required majority. When the
Commonwealth, shall be districts for the
question was once submitted to the people, a choice of Senators, until the General Court
jority only was required to approve the amendment shall alter the same-excepting that the
proposed.
Mr. Parker, of Charlestown, Mr. Childs, of lin, shall form one district for that purpose-
counties of Hampshire, Hampden and Frank.
Pittsfield, and Mr. Nichols, spoke in favor of the
amendment, and Mr. Blake, and Mr. Foster, a.
and also that the counties of Barnstable,
gainst it.
Nantucket and Dukes County, shall together
The question was then taken on Mr. Nichols's a- form a district for the purpose, and that they
mendment and decided in the negative..
shall be entitled to elect the following num.
Mr. WEBSTER, moved to amend by, inserting
the words " with the yeag and nays on the passing
ber of Senators, viz:-Suffolk, six--Essex,
thereof," after the direction that the proposed a-
six-Middlesex, four--Worcester, five
mendments shall be entered on the journals of the Hampshire, Hampden and Franklin, four-
two houses. This amendment was agreed to. Berkshire, two-Plymouth, two-Bristol,two
The question was then taken on passing the res-
Norfolk, three--Barnstable, Nantucket
olution and determined in the affirmative.
The second report of the same committee re-
and Dukes County, two.
lating to the authority to incorporate towns with 5. Resolved, That it is proper and expedi-
ciry privileges was then taken up and the resolu- ent further to alter the constitution, so as to
ţion read.
substitute “ the first Wednesday in January
Some debate was had upon this resolution and
for “the last Wednesday.in May” in every
the blank was filled with si five Housand.”
After further debate on motion of Mr. Bliss, the place where these words occur in the second
committe rose, reported progress and had leave to
section of the first Chapter.
sit again.
6. Resolved. That it is proper and expedi-
At a quarter past two the House adjqurned to
ent so to alter and amend the constitution as
nine o'clock tomorrow.
to provide that the Governor with four of the
Council for the time being, shall, as soon as
may be, examine the returned copies of the
WEDNESDAY, DEC. 6. record of the names of the persons voted for
The Convention met at 9 o'clock and attended and of the number of votes againsi his
prayers offered by the Rev. Mr. Palfrey.
Mr. PRESCOTT, óf Baston, from the standing
name, instead of five of the Council, as is
committee under the third resolution, offered the
now provided in the third article of the second
following reports, which were read,
section of the first Chapter.
Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
7. Resolved, That it is proper and expedia
IN CONVENTION, DEC. 6, 1820.
ent so to alter the Constitution as to provide
The committee to whom it was referred to
that not less than nineteen members of the
consider whether any, and if any, what alter-
Senate shall constitute a quorunu' for doing
ations or amendments it is proper and expe-
business.
dient to make, in so much of the Constitution
8. Resolved, That it is proper and exped-
as is contained in the second section of the
ient so to alter and amend the Constitution
first Chapter of the second part, and respects taining twelve hundred inhabitants, and also
as to provide that every corporate town con-
the Senate, and also so much thereaf as is
contained in the third section of the same
all corporate towns now united for the pur-
Chapter, and respects the House of Repre-
pose of electing a representatative, and hav-
sentatives, ask leave ta report the following ling together a like number of inhabitants,
Resplutions:-
may elect one Representative:
96
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTON,
.
9. Resolved, That it is proper and expedi- it resentatives may be paid for attending the
ent further to alter the Constitution so as to General Court" during the session thereof,
provide that twenty-four hundred inhabitants out of the Treasury of the Commonwealth,
shall be the mean increasing pumber which 15. Resolved, That it is proper and ex-
shall entitle a town to an additional represent-pedient to alter and amend the Constitution
ative.
so as to provide, that not less than one hun:
10. Resolved, That it is proper and exped- | dred members shall constitute a quorum for
ient further to alter and amend the Consti- y doing business,
tution so as to provide that each corporate 16. Resolved, That it is proper and ex-
town in this Commonwealth containing less pedient soʻtó amend the Constitution as to
than twelve hundred inhabitants and also provide that no member of the House of
all the corporate towns, which are now unit Representatives shall be arrested on mesne
ed for the purpose of choosing a Representa-process, warrant of distress or execution,
tive, and have together less than twelve hun- during his going unto, returning froin or hiş
dred inhabitants, shall be entitled to eléct || attending the General Court.
one Representative every other year.
17. Resolved, That it is expedient so far to
11. Resolved, That it shall be the dạty of alter and amend the Constitution as to pro-
the Legislature at their first session after the vide that the Senators shall have the like
Census, which is now taking under the au- privilege frorn arrest, as the members of the
thority of the United States shall be complet- | House of Representatives.
ed, to divide the towns in each county con-
All which is respectfully submitted,
taining less than twelve hundred inhabitants,
By order of the Committee;
including towns united as aforesaid, into two
.
WM. PRESCOTT, Chairman.
equal classes. That the first of these cląs-
This report on motion of Mr. Prescott, was
ses shall comprise half the towns in number committed to a committee of the whole, assigned
(those united as aforesaid to be considered
to Friday at 9 o'clock, and ordered to be printed.
as one town), and those towns which contain
SECOND REPORT.
the greatest number of inhabitants; and that
The committee on so much of the Consti.
each of the towns in this class shall be en-
tution as is contained in the second section
titled to elect one representative the first year
of the first Chapter of the second part, and
after they shall have been so classed. That respects the Senate, and also so much there-
the second class shall consist of the other cor-
of as is contained in the third section of the
porate towns in the county having less than
same Chapter and respects the House of
twelve hundred inhabitants, liqelyding those Representatives, and who were instructed to
united as aforesaid, each of which shall be take into consideration the propriety and ex-
entitled to elect one representative the sec-
pediency of inserting, at the end of the sec-
ond year after they are so classed; and that
ond article of the second section of the first
the towns so classed may each thereafter con-
Chapter, respecting the Senate, an amend-
tinue to elect one representative every other
ment, that on the first Monday of April or
year, and if the towns in any county shall
the election of Gove
happen to consist of an uneven number, the
ernor, Lieụt. Governor and Senators, and
town making such an, uneven number shall
the elections of electors of President and
be placed in the second class, and be entitled | Vice President of the United States and
to elect a representative every other year.
Representatives to Congress, if, such elec-
12. Resolved, That it is proper and exped- || tions are to be had during the year, of Rep-
ient so to alter and amend the Constitution as
resentatives to the General Court, and of all
to provide that whenever the population of town and county officers, shall be had on
any corporate town, or of the towns united as said day, ask leave to report [the following
aforesaid, and classed as aforesaid, shall have resolutions.]
increased to twelve hundred inhabitants, ac-
1. Resolved, That it is proper and expe -
cording to the Census hereafter to be taken
dient so to alter and amend the Constitution
under the authority of the United States, or
as to provide, tha, the meetings of the inhab-
of this Commonwealth, such town or towns
itants of each of the towns in the several
$0 united, shall thereafter be entitled to elect
counties in this Commonwealth, for the pur:
a representative.
pose of electing Governor, Lieut. Governor,
13. Resolved, That it is proper and expe-
Senators and Representatives in the Legis-
dient so to al:er the Coristitution as to pro-
lature of this Commonwealth, shall be hol-
vide that every town which shall hereafter be
den on the same day in each year.
incorporated within this Commonwealth shall
2. Resolved, That it is expedient so to 'al-
be entitled to elect one representative, when
ter and amend the Constitution, as to pro-
it shall contain twenty four hundred inhabi- vide, that the meetings of the inhabitants of
tants, and not before.
each of the towns in the several counties in
14. Resolved, That it is proper and expe.
this Commonwealth, for the purpose of elect-
dient so to alter the Constitution as to pro Jing Governor, Lieut. Governor, Senators
ride that the members of the House of Rep- and Representatives. işi the Legislature of
on
day of
!
3
97
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
day of
1
3
this
. Commonwealth, shall be holden on the j number of votes so returned for and against
annually.
each of the said amendments and each one
3. Resolved, That it is not expedient so to of the said amendments that shall be approv.
alter the Constitution as to provide, that the ed by a majority of the persons voting there-
meetings of the inhabitants of all the towns on according to the votes so returned and cer-
in the several counties in this Commonwealth tified, shall be deemed and taken to be rati-
shall be holden on the same day for the fied and adopted by the people,
choice of Electors of President and Vice 3. Resolved, That a copy of all the amendu
President of the United States and Repre- ments made and proposed by this Conven-
sentatives in Congress, as for Governor, i tion shall be attested by the President and by
Lieut. Governor, Senators and Representa-the Secretary thereof and transmitted to his
tives in the Legislature of this Common- Excellency the Governor, and another copy
wealth,
shall be attested as aforesaid, and engrossed
4. Resolved, That it is not expedient so to on parchment, and shall, together with the
alter or amend the Constitution as to provide, journal of the proceedings of this Conven-
that Town officers or County officers, shall tion be deposited in the office of the Secré-
be chosen on the same day as Governor, || tary of the Commonwealth. And a printed.
Lieut. Governor, Senators and Representa- copy of the said amendments attested by the
tives in the Legislature of this Common- Secretary of this Convention, shall be trans-a
wealth.
mitted as soon as may be to the Selectmen
For the Committee,
WILLIAM' PRESCOTT,
of every town and district of the Common-
wealth,
This Report being read was committed to the 4. Resolved, That all the amendment:-
committee of the whole, assigned to Friday at 9 made by this Convention shall be proposed!
D'olock, and ordered to be printed.
Mr. JACKSON, of Boston, from the committee
in distinct articles; each artiele to consist ain
to whom the subject was committed, reported the far as may be of one independent proposi-
I following resolutions.
tion; and the whole to be so arranged' tható
IN CONVENTION, DEC. 5, 1.820. upon the adoption or rejection of any one or
1. Resolved, That all such amendments more of them, the other parts of the consti-
in the present Constitution of the Common- tution may remain complete, and consistent
wealth, as may be made and proposed by this with each other. If any two or more propo-
Convention shall be submitted to the people sitions shall appear to be so connected to-
for theiy ratification and adoption, in Town) getlter, that the adoption of one and the re-
Meetings or District Meetings to be legally jection of another of them would produce a
warned and held on the
repugnance between different parts of the
pext; and at which meetings all the inhabit. || constitution, or would introduce an alteration
ants qualified to vote for Senators and Repre- therein not intended to be proposed by this con-
sentatives in the General Court may give in vențion,such two or more propositions shall be
their votes by ballot for or against the gene- combined in one article ; and eachof the said
ral amendments that shall be so proposed articles shall be considered as a distinct a-
And the Selectmen of the respective towns
mendment, to be adopted in the whole or re-
and districts shall in open meeting receive, i jected in the whole, as the people shall think
sort, count, and declare the votes of the in-
proper.
habitants for and against each of the said a- 5. Resolved, That the several articles when
mendınents; and the Clerks of the said
prepared and arranged as aforesaid shall be
towns and districts shall record the said votes ; || nunbered progressively ; -and the people
and true returns thereof shall be made out
may give their votes tipon each article as de
under the hands of the Selectmen or the ma-
signated by its appropriate number, without
jor part of them, and of the Clerk; and the specifying in their votes the contents of the
Selectmen shall enclose, seal, and deliver the article, and by annexing to each number :
same to the Sheriff of the County within fifteen | the words yes or no,
the words yes or no, or any other words
days after the said meetings, to be by him that may signify their adoption or
transmitted to the office of the Secretary | jection of the proposed amendment ; or they
of the Commonwealth on or before the may give their votes upon all the articles or
day of
next, or the said Select- ripon any number of them, together, without
men may themselves transmit the same to
being required to vote separately and specin
the said office on or before the day last men-
tioned.
fically upon each of the said articles,
2. Resolved, That a committee of this Con- tion of Mr. JACKSON, ordered to lie on the ta-
The resolutions being read were on mo-
vention be appointed to ineet at the State
House in Boston, on the said
ble and to be printed for the use of members..
day of
who shall open and examine the votes
On motion of Mr. WEBSTER, the Convention
then returned as aforesaid, and shall as soon
went into committee of the whole on the unfinished
business of yesterday, Mr. Dana in the chair.
as may be certify to his Excellency the Gov- The resolution relative to the granting of power.
r10r, and also to the General Court the to the Legislature to jạcorporate towns with the
day of
+
re-
58
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
基
​promene
powers of city government was taken into consider-11. plain his views more at large and to answer objes.
ation.
tions. As to filling the blank, it should only be
Mr. SHAW, of Boston, thought that if gen- considered what number of persons could conven-
glemen would take time to examine the object of iently meet and act together without danger of dise
this amendment, they would give it a ready assent. order. Probably about two thousand voters might
He disclaimed all idea of claiming powers or privi- be the highest number, and he should be in favor
leges for one class of citizens which were not to be of fixing at ten thousand, the number of inhabi-
equally extended to another. But an act of incor- tants over which the General Court should have
poration for municipal purposes is equally enjoyed aụthority to establish a city government.
by all the towns in the Commonwealth, In other Mr. BLAKE, of Boston, said that he thought
countries, cities were incorporated with substantial that the objection which had been expressed to the
powers and privileges--the right of choosing muni- resolution arose from the small number with which
cipal officers-the right of superintending subjects the blank had been filled, and that there would be
of local administration, and in England,the right of little opposition to the principle. It was self evi-
choosing members of Parliament. But in this dent that the form of town government, so well as
Commonwealth every town is to all substantial dapted to the purposes of small towns, was inappli-
purposes a city. They are towns corporate, having cable to a large town where there are many inhabi- -l
the power of choosing their own officers, and send- tants within a small compass. Boston now contains
Sing members to the General Court, with jurisdiction || 40,000 inhabitants, and they may be in 20 years
over all their local and prudential concerns, such 60,000. How was it possible that such a popula-
as the support of schools and highways the relief tion should hold a town meeting ? He thought if
of the poor--the superintendance of licensed houses the question was put upon a proper footing for try-
and other matters of local police. They have the ing the principle, there would hardly be a dissenti-
power of making bye laws and assessing and col- ent voice,
Secting taxes. They possess all the powers
Mr. FOSTER, of Littleton, said that he was not
and privileges of municipal corporations in well informed on this subject, and he presumed
Greet Britain or in this country: --If it that many other gentlemen were in the same situ-
were otherwise, and if it were desirable to in- ation. He inquired, whether a City incorporated
vest them with further powers, it is within the au- with the power's proposed in the resolution would
thority of the Legisiatnre to grant it. It is obvious not exercise the power of making laws, which
that a large aậd populous town must require many would affect persons who were not inhabitants of
regulations, burdensome and expensive indeed, the town, and whether inhabitants of other towns.
but yet necessary to its security and comfort, which going into a city would not be liable to be ensnared
are not necessary and would not be useful in a small
and entrapped by the operation of laws unknown
town. Such are the regulations of streets, drains, to other parts of the Commonwealth.
lạmps, the watch, markets, health laws and many Mr. SÁLTONSTALL, said he would inform the
other objects of local policy. Courts must be e- Rev. gentlemen last speaking, that he might go
rected particularly adapted to the wants of such a into Boston with equal safety after it was a city
town. But these objects are within the powers of government as now, that they would have no more
the Legislature, and they are always ready amp- power to make bye laws that might operate incon:
ly to provide for them. What then is the necessi- veniently on strangers than they now have. They
ty of granting any further power by an amendment have authority by statute to make regulations for
of the Constitution. Mr. $. said he would confine
the general convenience, and so may all our towns
himself to answering this question. The Consti- under the authority of the Court of Sessions, and
tation as it stands requires a form of town goverk- there are now a great variety of such regulations,
ment not adapted to the condition of a populous || The police regulations would probably remain the
town. The inhabitants of towns meet together same as they now are. The amendment proposed
for the purpose of giving their votes for town, was not to give the large towns any peculiar pow-
county, state and United Siates officers. In these
ers or privileges, but only to secure their enjoyment
cases the meeting is not deliberative. But, they of this in common with other towns, as had been
have another class of duties which consists in de- || fully explained by the gentleman from Boston, (Mr.
liberating and acting upon all questions falling Shaw ) Mr. &, thought the blank ought not to be
within their jurisdiction, in which cases they are filled with a less number than 10,000ma smaller
to be considered in all respects as deliberative bod- number would excite greater jealousies and be
ies. But the Constitution provides that the inhabi- more invidious. If reduced to 5000 there' would be
tants shall meet and the votes be given in open town many applications from towns which might think
meeting--that the votes shall be counted, sorted and there was some advantage in being made Cities. He
declared in open town meeting, in which the Se- did not know that towns would desire to change their
lectmen shall preside. These provisions render it government, wliich was peculiar to New England
imperative that the voters should meet together in -he hoped they would not. It is a beautiful sys-
one body he they few or many. Mr. S. computed tem, and had been most salutary. The Commons
that the voters qualified to vote in town aſfairs wealth from the beginning had been divided into
were about one fourth or one fifth of the popula- these little republics, upder a kind of patriarchal
tion. In a town of forty thousand inhabitants
government, most wisely adapted to their situation,
this would give from eight to ten thousand and calculated to preserve the good order of so-
voters, Could this number of persons beneficial- ciety.--At the same time, the Legislature ought to
meet together in one body for the purpose of have the right to extend this privilege to the second
election or deliberation, He thoughi obyiously town in the Commonwealtli. There had been
not. This then is the essential difficulty. The time when the excitement was such there, as to
General Court can grant powers as occasion may bring 1800 citizens together, equally divided ; a day
require, but cannot dispense with the mode of or- had been passed in choosing a moderator the
ganization required by the Constitution. What
town had been kept together till late in the evening,
then is the reniedy? It is to authorize such an or- and in one instance there was a degree of confuse
ganization as is adapted to the condition of a nu- ion, to which it is unpleasant to allude, and which
merous people-such an organization as will ad- had well nigh deprived the town of their right at
mit the inhabitants to meet in sections for the pur- the election of Governor. It may be found conve-
poses of election, and choose representatives who nient to vote in Wards. Mr. S. did not wish the
should meet for the purpose of deliberation, in- government of the town should now he changed
stead of the whole body. * Mr. S. proceeded to ex- být it ght not to be precluded by the copstitution
-
1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
town.
:
Aroma the privilege, as it may become important Mr. WEBSTER.called the gentleman to orders
hereafter to that and other towns, for the same The question was for filling the blank.
reasons that now make it necessary in the capital. Thé CHAIRMAN told him (Mr. M.) that he
Mr.'WELLS, of Boston, said if the subject were was out of order. He had already spoken once
understood, it would be perceived that very little and another gentleman had arisen to speak:
additional power was intended to be conferred on Mr: ABBOT, of Westford, was opposed to filling
the Legislature by this amendment to the Consti- the blank with ten thousand ; and to obviate the
tution. He referred the gentleman from Littleton objection of the gentleman from Hingham, he
to the 6th article of the Declaration of Rights, in would propose that the Legislature, should have
order to remove his apprehensions with respect to power to grant city powers and immunities to any
exclusive privileges. From that he would perceive
that it would be impossible to grant exclusive priv- The question was taken for filling the blank with
ileges to the town of Boston by virtue of this a- ten thousand and carried in the affirmative-223
mendment. The only reason for the resolution to 140.
was on account of elections in large towns. He
The question was now upon the resolution with
mentioned that in this town, at the town meeting the blank filled.
for the election of Delegates, the Selectmen were Mr. PRİNCE, of Boston, said the gentleman
employed from one o'clock in the afternoon to ten from Littleton's apprehensions of being hampered
o'clock at night, in assorting and counting the by two opposite systems of laws, those of the Lea
Notes; and if there had been as full a rote as there gislature and those of the city of Boston, were
is on some occasions, it would have required three groundless, as the Legislature would be composed
days.
for the greatest part of gentlemen from the coun.
Mr. ADAMS, of Quincy, said he might be mis-
try, and could control the city ordinances.
taken, but he had thought there was no difference Mr. NICHOLS, of South-Reading, moved to
of opiniou with respect to the general principle of amend the resolution by inserting a provision that
the resolution, but only as' to filling the blank.-- the bye-laws or municipal regulations of city cor-
The inconvenience attending the elections in the porations, should be subject to revision and repeal
large seaport towns was so great, he did not sup- by the Legislature. His object was to prevent
pose any one eould have questioned the expedien- powers being granted to corporations which should
cy of giving the Legislature the power proposed not be subject to recal. He made the proposi-
by this resolution. Our towns were very happy as tion in consequence of the present doctrine reg.
at present constituted-he had always loved the
pecting corporations.
system of their organization, and thought that Mr. WELLS thought the amendment superflu-
they would not be disposed generally, to change. ous, as the Legislature had the power already.
their form of government. He had had the honor Mr. BLAKÉ said the amendment struck him
to be a citizen of New-Haven forthirty years; and
Agreeably. The question of by-laws being repug-
when the Legislature of Connecticut had given nant to the laws of the state, was at present to be
facilities for all the towns becoming cities, it was decided by the judiciary. He iliought it proper
inundated with applications for that purpose. The that the Legislature should have the power of
Legislature began to be alarmed and to hesitate a- lijudging in such cases and of repealing when they
bout granting charters of incorporation. At last a
thought fit.
Jittle clump of Indians in that state took it into their Mr. QUINCY, of Boston, (who had risen at the
heads that they must apply for city powers and same time with Mr. Blake,) said that gentleman
privileges. This convinced the Legislature of the had anticipated his remarks, and when the meal
impolicy of granting charters with so much liberal- was well gronnd, he did not care to have it pass
ity, and there they stopped. If unlimited power through his lopper.
were given to the Legislature to incorporate cities, The amendment proposed by Mr. Nichols was
there might be a great many applications, just as adopted The question was then taken upon the
there were in Connecticut. He thought in filling i resolution as amended and decided in the affirma
the blank, the number ten thousand was small e tive-291 to 24.
nough.
The remaining resolution reported by the select
Mr. MARTIN, of Marblehead, followed Mr.
committee was then taken up, that it is not expedi-
Adams. He was opposed to giving the Legislature ent to make any further provision, by the Constitu-
power to incorporale cities.
tion, relative to the substitution of affirmations for
The Chairman told him to confine lis observa.
oaths,
tions to filling the blank.
Mr. WEBSTER would only state the rea-
... Mr. RICHARDSON, of Hingham, said he
should confine himself to that, and should be very
80HS on which the committee acted. The
concise: He referred gentlemen to the 6th article question had nothing to do with the mode
of the Bill of Rights, and asked what right they of receiving testimony in the Courts of Law
bad to say that a town of ten thousand inhabitants -All that part of the case rests with the
shall have city privileges, aud one of nine thous Legislature and the Courts--if any thing be
and shall not
Mr. PICKMAN, of Salem, in answer to the gen-
wrong, in that particular, it can be altered
tleman from Marblehead (whose remarks we were
without any amendment of the Constitution.
not happy enough to hear) said that towns were
No purpose requires a change of the Con-
already corporations, and that to make cities would stitution, except that of giving 10 persons,
be only changing corporations, not forming new scrupulous of taking oaths, an optio, in
ones. He was attached to the name and systein respect to offices, to make affirmation. Two
of towns, and he should conseut with reluctance to
things were to be considered-first the gen.
changing the town which he had the honour to
eral principle--second, the acknowledged
represent, to a city. He thought the number ten
thousand sufficiently small for filling the blank.
exception. The general principle in this
Mr. MARTIN said the Legislature had already government, and all others, was that bighof.
remedied the evil complained of by the gentleman
fices sbould be performer under the respon.
from Salem (Mr. Saltonstall) by providing that the sibility of a religious obligation, or oatb.
moderator at town meetings should be chosen by The exception, in this Commonwealth, was,
ballot. Mr: Ms was going on upon the resolution that Quakers might take office, making ars
otherally.
uffirmation instead of an oath. That which
100
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
+
is now objected to the resolution recom. Mr. FOSTER thougļit it would be nugatory to
mended by the Committee, was, that it did have any oaths if every body was allowed to substis
not provide such an alteration of the Con- tute affirmations when they pleased. He said he
stitution, as that affirmations might be
did not consider an affirmation as an appeal to God,
substiduced for oaths, in all cases, at the
but a promise by which a person subjected himself
to human penalties in case he falsified the truth.
:option of the party, on his suggestion Mr: NÊWHALL, of Lynnfield, moved as an a
that he had conscientious scruples. mendment, that affirmations should be substituted
The committee had thought it not pro. for oaths in all cases when the party shall have re-
per to recommend this alteration. It ap- ligious scruples about taking oaths.
Mr. NICHOLS was in favor of this amend:
peared to them that the quèstion did not
stand on the same ground as in the care of
ment. He said it was not generally known that
• Quakers. The Quakers were a well knowa ligious scruples about taking oaths. He consider:
some other denominations besides Quakers had re-
B-sect; and it was equally well known that it
ed the requisition repugnant to the declaration of
was a sentiment o that sect that all swear. rights.
ing was unlawful. This was a sentiment,
Mri WEBSTER wished to bring gentlemen
*vhich,whether right or wrong;they had long
back to the question. It was necessary to see what
dbered to, and had given full evidence of
were the existing provisions on this subject. He
gleir sincerity in regard to it. They have
said the regulation of oaths, except those of office,
which had been already decided upon by the com-
suffered for it, and maintained it for near
mittee, were the subject of legislation, and the lege
two centuries, in the midst of severe trials, islature had full power iö relation to them. Mr. W,
:)metimes of great persecution. It bed made other remarks shetving the inexpediency of
therefore been supposed that it was safe and adopting the amendment.
roper to take their affirmation instead of Mr, ÉNOCH MUDGE, of Lynn, said he had no
8. n oath. If a man was a Quaker, ihal fact
such scruples himself, but nany in Lynn had. He
said the Quakers themselves disliked to see that
a lone furnished evidence, in the common
damc in the constitution. They wished to have the
inderstanding of Suciety, that he was real. principle of Substituting affirmations extended to all
tly and truly scrupulous about taking oaths
persons.
:--because his religious sect was known to The question was taken on Mri Newhall's. a*
Ite scrupulous in that respect. But the case
mendment; and determined in the negative---86 to
278.
ostcod much otherwise with an individual not
belonging to that sect, and therefore giving the whole, being one of the Electors of President
Mr: DANA, the Chairman of the committee of
Ino evidence of his scruples but his own de. and Vice President, and the hour appointed for
iclaration. This declaration might be true, their mceting having arrived, stated the necessity
indeed ; and it might be talse ;-and how of his withdrawing front the chair, and Mr. VAR-
was il to be decided ? --In short, it seemed NUM was requested by the President to take the
chair in his place.
scontradictory and absurd to prescribe oalhs
of office, and then leuve it to the uncontrole
The question on the resolution reported by the
select committee being stated,
Hled option of the party to take the oath or
Mr. WILLIAMS, of Beverly, moved to amend
It was possible, that tbe existing pro.
it, by substituting a resolution that the constitution
vision might bear bard on here and there an be so altered, as that all persons conscientiously.scru-
Tudividual , He regretted it--but either pulous of taking an oath, shall in cases when an
Paths should not be required at all, or they
oath is required, be allowed to affirm upon the
should not be dispensed with, at the mere
pains and penalties of perjury, provided that the
#leasure of the paity. This would be play.
person administering the oath or affirmation slinkl
be authorized to question them respecting the sin-
tog fast and loose on a very serious subject. cerity of their scruples.
It appeared to the Commiliee, on the whole, Mr. WEBSTER observed that this proposition
that the exeeption in favour of Quakers would take away all right from Quakers and put it
- stood on distinct and particular grounds ; in the power of the magistrate or other person ad-
Hard that there was no ground on which to
mistering the oath or affirmation to compel any one
support an alteration of the Constitution for
to swear or not according to his discretion or
whim. That it put oaths of office on the same
the purpose of making other exceptions.
ground as other oaths, and it, enabled the person
A.s to testimony in the Courts, that can be appointed to administer such oaths to deprive &
regulated elsewhere. The present question man of scrupulous concience of the office to which
merely respects qualification for office ; and he might be elected. That as to oaths beforo
the committee were of opinion that no new
courts of justice, it was nugatory,
provision was necessary
The question was taken upon Mr.WILLIAMS'
Mr. BALDWIN, of Boston, deemed it his indis-
amendment and lot, and after a few observations
pensible duty to shew his dissent from tbe opinion by Mr. Nichols in opposition to the resolution the
expressed by the gentleman who last spoke! He question was taken upon the resolution and decid-
ed in the affirmative-298 to 29.
could vot see why one denomination of Christians
On,motion of Mr. WEBSTER the Committee
should be favored more than another. Vere the
rose and reported their agreement to the two leso-
Friends the only people to be trusted ? He ad-
hutions.
mired the virtue and simplicity of their character,
but other persons were equally sincere in their
BILL OF RIGHTS:
scruples on this subject. If elected to office, a man Mr. BLISS, from the committee on the first part
might decline takiòg an oath, by declining the of-
of the Constitution, offered the following report:
fice, but it is not so io courts of justice. An affir-
Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
mation was an appeal to God, without coming un-
der the name of swearing. He had religious scru-
IN CONVENTION, DEC.6, 1820.
ples himself about taking oaths, agd had uot taken
The Committee to whom was referred so mucli
ose these forty years.
of the Constitution of this Commonwealth is in
ret.
!
.
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
101
Editained in the Preamble and Declaration off-to subjoined, ought to be retained as a part
Rights, to take into consideration the propriety of said article:
and expediency of making any; anıt if any, what
alterations or amendments therein, and report | der and preservation of civil government, essen:
"As the happiness of a people and the good ºr:
That the title and preanible of the Constituuion, |, and as these cannot be generally diffused through
as it stands in the original, iš proper and suitable,
and ought to remain unaltered'; and that the de- || worship of God; and of public instructions in piety;
a community, but by the institution of the public
claration of rights contains a suitable and api enu-
religion, and morality: Therefore; to promote
meration of the rights of the people and of the
their happiness, and to secure the good order and
great principles of civil liberty:
preservation of their government, the people of
The committee do not think it expedient that
this Commonwealth have a right to invesť their
any essential alterations should be made in any of
Legislature with power to authorize and require;
the articles, ëxcept the third; but as it is possible
and the Legislature shall from time to time, author:
that some expressions in thém may hereafter be
ize and require the several towns, parishes, pre-
construed as interfering with the Constitution and
cincts, and other bodies politic; and religious sociais
laws of the United States, they have thought it
eties; incorporated or unincorporated, to make
proper to recommend such an alteration in the
suitable provision, at their own expense; for the
phraseology as may remove all doubt,
institution of the public worship of God, and for
They also think that the word “subject,” where
the support and maintenance of public Christian
it occurs in said declaration, ought to be changed
teachers of piety, religion and morality, in all caseg
for a word more consistent with the feelings of
where such provision shall not be made volun-
freemen.
tarily;
As to the third article in said déclaration, while
the committee are generally agreed, that the great
« Provided; notwithstanding; that the several
towns, parishes, precincts, and other hodies poli-
privilege of religious freedon, and the support of
tic and religious societies, incorporated or unir-
public worship, and public religious institutions
corporated, shall at all times, have the exclnsive
are so essential to the well being of society that right of electing their public teachers and of coni .
they hold a distinguished place in that declaration, tracting with them for their maintenance,"
they have found no small arfficulty in settling the Resolved, That it is expedient'that all that
inode in which the individual might be securei in
the enjoyment of the right of selecting the place part of said 3d Article which related to the
where he would attend public worship, and of ap- right of the citizen to elect the teacher to
propriating to the teacher where he atiends what- whose use he will appropriate the money he
ever he is obliged to pay, and at the sanse time se- shall be holder to pay and which immediately
curing to the community the contribution of all the
citizens to an object so important as that of public
succeeds the foregoing; beginning with the
worship—They have endeavored so to modily that,
words " and all minies" and ending with the
article as to attain those ends, and respectfully | word " raised” should be annulled, and the
gubmit the following Resolutions.
following substituted in its place to wit- and
By order of the commitlee
all monies paid by the citizen to the support
GEORGE BLISS, Chairman:
Resolved, That it is expedient that the
of public worship and of the public teachers
second and eleventh articles of said declara-
aforesaid, shall, if he require it, be applied to
tion be amended by substituting the word
the support of public worship where he shall
* citizen" instead of the word “ siibject."
attend" or the public teacher or teachers on
Resolved, That it is expedient that the
whose instruction he attends, whether of a
12th, 13th and 14th articles be amended by Provided there be aliy on whose instructions
society incorporated or unincorporated.
substituting the word “person” for the word
"subject” in said articles.
He attends, otherwise it shall be paid towards
Resolved, That it is expedient that the
the support of public' worship and of the
teacher or teachers of the parish or precinct
3d article in said declaration should be a-
in which the said monies are raised.
mended by substituting for the word "or!!
immediately after the words “ bodies politic”? | any parish or member of any religious society
Provided however, That any inhabitant of
the words " and," and by adding the words
incorporated and unincorporated."
whether incorporated or not, may at all times
Résolved, That it is expedient that the
unite himself to any sociéty within this Com-
same article be further arpended by substi-
monwealth incorporated for the support of
tuting the word " Christian” for the word
public worship and having first obtained the
i protestant."
consent of such society with which he shall
Resolved, That all that part of said article
so unite himself--and having procured a cers
which invests the Legislature with power to
tificate signed by the clerk of such society to
ënjoin an attendance on public worship,
which he hath so united himself, that he hatsı
ought to be annulled, and be holden no long-
become a member thereof, and filed the-
er obligatory.
same in the office of the cheik of such parish
Resolved. Tiliat with the abioyé aménd-
or society to which he liath belonged and in
tents and alterations so much of the said
which said monies are raised, he shall not
article as declares the importance of public liable to be taxed for any monies raised af-
while he shall remain a member thereof, be
worship and public instruction, and enjoins ter the filing of fach certificate, for the sup-
upon the Legislature the maintenance there-
of, and also secures to societies the right of port of public worship, or of any such public
élácting their own teachers and which is itere-
teacher, except in the society of which he
hath so become a member ; but shall be hol.
14
;
102
!
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
1.
den to be taxed in the society with which he | mity to the Constitution of the United
so united himself until he shall cease to be a States."
member thereof:
Resolved, That it is expedient that the
Provided, also, that whenever any num- twenty-third article should be amended by
ber of persons not less than twenty, shallhave annulling or expunging therefrom the word
associated themselves together for the pur- “ Legislature" at the end of said article.
pose of maintaining public worship, and pub- Resolved, That it is expedient that the
lic religious instruction, and shall have inade twenty-seventh article thereof, should be ao
and signed an agreeinent in writing under mended by substituting the word " law for
their hands, declaring such purpose, and the words “ the Legislature."
shall have caused a copy.of such agreement Resolved, That it is expedient that the
to be filed in the office of the clerk of the twenty-eighth article of said declaration
town or towns to which they shall respective- || should be amended by substituting the words
ly belong,--they shall in regard to the sup- "Legislative authority” for the words “au-
port of public worship, and the maintenance thority of the Legislature.”
of public teachers, have all the powers, and On motion of Mr. Bliss, the report was commit-
be subject to all the duties of parishes with-
ted to a committee of the whole, assigned to
in this Commonwealthm and all persons so
Thursday at 11 o'clock; and ordered to be printed.
LIEUT. GOVERNOR AND COUNCIL.
associated while they continue members of On motion of Mr. Blake, the Convention went
such society, shall not be liable to be taxed into committee of the whole on the unfinished bus-
elsewhere for the support of public worship iness of Saturday, it being the report of the Select
or of any 'public teacher of piety, religion relates to the Lieut. Governor and Council.
Committee on that part of the Constitution which
and morality. --And any person may become
The question was stated on the resolution offered
a inember of such society, so united, and ) by Mr. Morton, on Saturday, to strike out the
certified as aforesaid, if such society shall || third resolution reported by the select committee,
consent thereto, and shall not after he shall and to insert å provision that the Constitution be
have procured and filed in the office of the
so altered that the council be chosen by the peo-
ple.
clerk of the town to which he shall have be-
Mr MORTON witlidrew this resolution, which;
longed, a certificate signed by a committee he said; did not embrace his original ideas on the
or the clerk of such society of which he subjcct, and offered a substitute.
shall so have become a member that he
Mr: DEARBORN, of Roxbury, rose to offer
has become a meinber of such society,
three resolutions, which, if accepted, would serve
as a substitute for that under consideration and that
and attends public worship with them, shall reported by the select committee. The purport of
not be liable to be taxed elsewhere, . for any these resolutions was, to strike out that part of the
money raised after he shall have filed such constitution which directs that nide Counsellors
certificate, so long as he continues a member
shall be appointed so to amend that part relating
to the Lieut. Governor as to provide that he shall
thereof, and shall attend public worship with
be President of the Senate, that he may enter into
such society, and shall while he is a member debate when the Senate are in committee of the
thereof be holden to contribute to the sup- whole; have a casting vote when the Senate are e-
port of public worship and of the public || qually divided, and when the two houses are
teacher or teachers in said society.
assembled in joint body and that if the offices of
Governor and Lieut. Governor should become va-
Resolved, That it is expedient that all the cant, the President of the Senate pro-tempore, or
residue of the said third article and which is if there should be no such officer, the Speaker of
in the following words and every denomin- the House of Representatives shall act as Governor.
ation of Christians demeaning thenıselves
He read also two other resolutions, which he should
offer at another time, if these should be accepted ;
peaceably and as good citizens shall be e-
providing that appointinents instead of being made
qually under the protection of the law ; and by the Governor and Council, should be made by:
no subordination of any one sector denom- the Governor and Senate; and that all duties now
ination to another shall ever be established | required of the Governor and Council, should be
1 by law," substituting the word “ citizens" in-
performed by the Governor and Senate.
stead of the words 6 subjects of the Comrnon-
It being objected that it would not be in order to
receive these resolutions, Mr: Morton withdrew his
wealth,” ought to remain as a part of said motion, and those offered by Mr. Dearborn were
third article.
read.
Resolved. That it is expedient that the
Mr: BLISS, objected that it was not in order
twelfth article in said declaration should be
to receive these propositions—the committee had
already determined all these questions 'relating to
amended by varying the expressions from Lieut. Governor, and all relating to the Council,
the words 6 face to face to the end of the had been once determined ; but the third resolution
sentence as follows to wit : "and in crimin- and that only had been reconsidered. It was prop-
al prosecutions to be fully heard by himself
er to discuss that only, and it was clearly contrary
to the rules and orders, that propositions embracing
and his counset."
all these subjects should be received.
Resolved, That it is expedient that the The CHAIRMAN said it would be in practica-
seventeeeth article of said declaration should ble to introduce these propositions in this manner
be amended by adding after the word “Leg-
--io propose resolutions which shall do away whať
islature" therein, the words “and in confor-
has been acted upon by the committee of the
whole. The gentleman would have an opportun i
i
:
$
!
.
.
coun-
1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
KOS
ty to bring forward his proposition in Convention, tion which he would never consent to. He would
and it might then, if necessary, be referred to a not alter one foature or lineament of the constitu-
committee of the whole.
tion that should subtract from the powers of
Mr. MORTON renewed his last motion. It was
the people.
There were solid objections to
to substitute for the third resolution of the select the choice by the Legislature. The office of
committee one which should direct that
Counsellor had important duties, it was next
sellors shall be annually chosen by the people by in rank to that of Lieutenant Governor.--
ballots, distinct from those given for Senators, in All appointments to office were made only by ap-.
such convenient districts as shall be herein provid- probation of the Council. They had besides great.
ed for.
and various duties, and it was a mistaken idea that
Mr. PARKER, of Boston wished that' gentle- men who had become incapable of active services,
men who submit propositions to the comiittee and whose faculties were decayed should be stowe,
might have an opportunity of explaining their rea- ed away in the Council never more to be heard of.
sons in support of their motions. In relation to this If the power of election were taken from the peo-.
resolution the committee ought to be informed how ple there were insuperable objections to giving it
it was to be carried into effect.
It proposed that to the Legislature. They were the last body that
counsellors should be elected by the people. All
ought to possess it. They were unfit to have much.
this was very good, but the question is as to the to do with elections. It is their proper duty to
form in which this shall be done. They were as make laws and not to elect officers, except in cases.
much chosen by the people when it was done by were it is indispensable. The gentleman from Rox-
their deputies in convention of the two Houses of bury had objected to caucuses. A Legislațive cau.
the Legislature, as if it was done in town meeting. cus was the worst of all. Members of the Legislature
But it must be done in districts. How were those were subject to undue. influences. A reverend:
to be formed ? He could see no mode which did gentleman had said, lead us not into temptation ; if
not present insuperable. difficulties.
The popula.
you give this power to the Legislature, you not on-
tion of the Commonwealth was about five hundred ly lead them into temptation but deliver them over
thousand. The districts must be formed with sonie to evil. It was improper to unite the duties of
degree of equality, and seven districts must be making laws and electing to offices. There was an
formed, each containing a population of about sev- incongruity in giving the
choice of Governour and
enty thousand souls, Boston contains forty thou- of the Council to different bodies. They both con-
sand. What part of the state will you take to make stituted butone branch of the government. He was.
up the rest of the district ? Will you take the not strenuous for preserving the office of Counsel-
county of Norfolk, or a part of Middlesex, that lor. But if it was preserved they qught to be e-.
the voice of the people there may be merged in lected by the people and there was no. alternative
giving a counsellor to the town of Boston ? Wor- but to choose them by districts. There were diffla.
cester would be about large. enough for a district, culties, but they were not insurmountable. \ He..
the old county of Hampshire, for another; but concluded by moving a resolution that it is expe-
Berkshire is too small. Shall
, the established limits
dient and proper so to amend the constitution as to
of Worcester and Hampshire be broken up ? Or reduce the number of counsellors from nine to,
will you go down to Cape Cod and tack the county
of Barnstable to Berkshire. He proceeded to ar-
CHAIRMAN. That resolution has already.
gue that it was not an interference with popular passed.
rights-referred to the recent example of Maine, Mr. BLAKE then moved to amend the resolu-
and the practice here for forty years- urged the tion of the select committee so as to declare that it
probability that so counsellors well qualified to is not expedient to make any alteration in the con-
perforin the various duties would be elected and stitution in regard to the election of counsellors.
recurred again to the incalculable. difficulties that Mr. ADAMS, was opposed to the amendment
must be encountered in forming the districts.. offered by Mr. Blake. He would much rather
Mr. MORTON supported his motion. He said vote for an annihilation of the Council. What is,
that it was expected ihat, the old principle of elect--the Council ? It is an essential part of the execu-
ing Counsellors and Senators together would be
together would be ltive. The Governor is only prinus inter pares.-
abolished, for the principle had been departed: Every member has an equal vote with the Govern.
from in practice. On that principle the counsel- or and Lieutenant Governor, The executive
lors were elected by the people. The com- consists of elever heads. Who are to appoint nine
mittee who have reported an
an amendment or ten of these? The Liqutenant Governor is ap-
to that part of the constitution which relates to the pointed and rightly by the people. But nine. are
choice of Senators have said nothing about Coun- not appointed by the people. Returning forty men
sellors. The people are therefore to be deprived out of whom they are to be chosen is not expressing
of their voice in the election. The choice by con- the voice of the people. Intermixing them with
vention of the two Houses he considered a farce. | forty men chosen for Senators is no election by the
The practice had been to elect nine Counsellors people at all. His objection was founded on a
who had already pledged themselves in support of fundamental principle of a free government. It
particular measures The people who adopted the was essential tı,at the executive and legislative de-
constitution had po idea that the principle of elect- partments' should be distinct and independent of
ing Counsellors would be so misused.
each other. Can any one say that they are distinct
Mr. LELAND, of Roxbury, thought that the and independent, when the Legislature have the
mode proposed would have a salutary effect so far power to appoint nine members in opposition to the
as it tended to bring into the council men of differ- Governor--to obstruct and embarrass his meas..
ent political opinions but he thought that there ures. He did not say that this had been done,
would be insuperable difficulties in carrying it into but it might be done. If the Council were to be
effect. Counties between whom jealousies existed appointed in the manner in which they used to be,
must be united'; a caucus non nation would be ne-
it would be necessary to take from theni, all
cessary. He was in favor of an election by the power of controlling the governor, and to leave the
people, but this propostițion he thought visionary responsibility with bim. The two Houses of the
and the worst of all the modes proposed.
Legislature make an election of nine out of forty
Mr. BLAKE did not entirely approve of this to form a part of the executive. It is such an in-.
propositon, but he thought it the best that had been
termingling of powers as no free government can. -
made. He thought it unnecessary to take the pow- long live under. If there have been no inconven-
en of election from the people. It was an innova- iences herctofore, they will arişe as the country. in.
seven.
1
104
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION
走
​creases-There will be more ambitious men, in- | their rulers to profess their belief in the conimoa:
trigues; plots and caucuses. He was for districting religion of the state--it rests: on the same basis as
the Commonwealth and giving the choice to the the right to require any other qualification for of:
people. It is only by giving to the governor a deci- fice. The great object of civil society is the prox
sive authority that he can administer with success. tection of the life, liberty and property of the mem--
He had knowo no governor whom the people have bers, and “ to furnish them with the means of enjoy-
chosen that was not worthy of his place. He had ing in tranquillity their natural rights and the bles-
had great experienop of the difficulties of chocks sings of life," and those entering into it, have a
upon the executive power in the government of the right to agree upon such a system of government
United States. The power given to the Senate as in their opinion will best promote these great ob.-.
wouid be the total ruin of the Copstitution of the jects. All are bound by their decision--it rests on
United States, or it must be amended.
the assent of all, express or implied. The people
Mr. BLAKE withdrew his amendment, and the of this commonwealth are a voluntary association,
question returned upon the proposition of Mr. and have a right to adopt such regulations as they
Morton.
think fit, otherwise they are a voluntary society act-
Mr. STONE, of Stow and Boxborough, said it ing against their will. They have a right to decide
was the design of the founders of the Constitution, what offices they will have, and wlrat shall be the
that the people should have a voice in the choice qualifications for them. No objection can be made
of Counsellors. It was true that iſ the choice was to the right of requiring this declaration, which will
by the Legislature it emanated indirectly from not lie against every other qualification. Mr. S.
the peole; bụt this was an innovation and a then proceeded to illustrate it by referring to the
subversion of republican principles. He answered qualification of property, age, and residence rer
the objection that the people were not competenţ i quired in the Governor. All these rest on the same
to choose in large districts. The same objection principle the right of society. to establish sạch
would lie against the election of Governor and Sen- rules as in their opinion will best promote the great
ators. Yet the people choose judiciously. He was objects of its institution. Why then have not a
opposed to a general ticket, because all would be Christian community a right to require this declar.
of one political opinion, and the minority would ation ? Will it not give some additional security ?
not be represented. By districts all parts-all What is the religion which they are required to
interests and the different political feelings would profess? It is too late to dispute its good tenden-
be represented.
cy on rulers and people. It teaches rulers to "rule
Mr. FOSTER moved that the committee rise. in the fear of God." This is a mere civil regula-
Negatived 178 to 182.
tion, and was not intended to interfere with the
Mr. BLISS spoke at some length in favor of the rights of conscience and of private judgment, It a.
amendment, He saw no difficulty in forming dis- 1) bridges no man of his religious liberiy. In every
tricts—no objection to annexing counties.
community there is a large olass who are left in the
Mr. PHILLIPS-spoke against the amendment. enjoyment of their civil rights, who have yet ng
The committee rose, reported progress, and had right to political privileges; they cannot be elected
leaye to sit again.
to, office. The great object of society is not the
Leave of absence was granted to Mr. Noyes and | right of being rulers, but of security against wrong:
M. Hunt.
Much of the objection to this test as it is improperly
Mr. Phelps, of Belchertown, was appointed in called, arises from confounding private judgment
place of Mr. Hunt, on the committee op leave of and the qualifications which the constitution crem
absence.
ates for certain offices. To punish men for believe
It was ordered that the standing hour of meet- ing or not believing is cruelty ; but to annex con-
ing in the morning, should be 9 o'clock.
ditions to offices is perfectly justifiable, and indeed,
Adjourncd.
necessary. Mr. S. also argued the right from the
circumstance of its long continuance. It is said:
government have nothing to do with opinions. The
people always elect their oficers with a view to
THURSDAY, DEC. %.
their opinions, and why have not the majority in
The Convention met at 9 o'clock, and attended
framing a government the right to agree that, they
will not elect certain magistrates unless they will de..
prayers offered by the Rev. Mr. Palfrey. The
clare their belief in the Christian religion ? If the
journal having been read,
On motion of Mr. WEBSTER, the Convention | expediency--it is found inthe constitution, and shall
people have this right, then it is a mere question of
took into consideration the resolutions reported by
the coinmittee on that part of the Constitution
it now be preserved or expunged. But why 'ex-
which relates to oaths, subscriptions &c. agreed
punge it? What evil has it done ?' It onght not to.
be expunged, unless this is clearly shern. Has it
to in connuttee of the whole.
Mr. TUCKERMAN, af Chelsea moped to it-
deprived the Commonwealth of the services of good
inen? In what instances ? It may have excluded
pend the resolution in suclı manner that persons fron office mmsuitable men If it had excluded a
elected to the office of Governor, Lieutenant Gov.
man ever, as learnedasGIBBON from the legislature,it
ernor, Senator or Representative, should before
would not have been untortunate, if he was capable
entering upon the duties of the office, make and
subscribe the following declaration ;
of making such an insidious, unmanly attack on our
holy religion. As to Jews, Mahometans, Deists
“I A. B. do declare that I believe in the and Atheists, they are all opposed to the com-
Christian religion."
mon religion of the Commonwealth and believe
Mr. SALTONSTALL, of Salem, observed that. || it an imposition, a mere fable, and that its
he bad intended, as he knew some othérs had, to professors are all under a wretched delusion.
address the convention when the subject was be- Are such persons suitable rulers, of a Christian
fore them, but was prevented by the symptoms of
Statc ? But this test does much good. It has a good
impatience expressed. He had since thouglit
effect on those who take it. They will not be so
geriously, upon it, and believed his daty would not profligate as afterwards to profess their infidelity,
permit his silence, though silence is so great a virá
and stamp their characters with hypocrisy. It is in
ile in this convention. It was one upon which he this way a great check to infidelity. Who can tell
could not sacrifice his private opinion to others,
how much influence it may have had in producing
however he night respect and renerate them. As the present elevated character of Massacbusetts
to the right or a Christian community to require
we should now expunge it,it would be a triumph
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
105
to infidels. Now, they would say, the people of Mr. STORY, of Salem; said he hoped the mo.
Massachusetts have determined that a profession |tion for a reconsideration would prevail
. Extreme
of Christianity is not necessary to the enjoyment of difficulties would arise if they attempted to pre
the highest honors. The descendants of the Pil- clude debate. It was the right of evény member
grims have blotted out from the constitution the to be heard on any proposition he might make for
great-recognition of the Christian religion. We the amendment of the constitution, and they would
ought to consider this subject with the circumstan- consult their own dignity, as well as the advantage
ces with which it is combined-that--it is in the of the Commonwealth by giving 'an opportunity
constitution that we are in Massachusetts,and what för a full discussion of every such proposition.
is proper here inight be inexpedient in some other They were sent there for that purpose and they
places. We ought to look at the history of Massa- would save time by pursuing this course ; that o-
chusetts and recollect that it is a religious Com. therwise they would be laying a foundation for a-
monwealth-that it had its origin in devotion to the nother Convention. Membors would go hone
Christian religion, and that now, the spirit of complaining of not having been lieard, and would
bigotry is gone, we have only the good influ- argue over again their propositions. This might
ence of their principles and institutions. It is an be attended with most disastrous consequences.
inposing spectacle that annually takes place here He said the vote just passed was contrary to one
when the principal officers of the state, in the of their own rules, which requires that every reso-
presence of their maker, and of an iminense as- lution proposing an alteration in the Consitution,
sembly; profess their belief in the Christian relig. | shall be discussed in committee of the whole, be-
ion. It is a great pyblic homage to truth. And fore it is debated, and finally acted upon in
shis religion is worthy of all our support and en- Convention. If every other gentleman's mind was
couragement. It teaches all our duty. It com- made up at once, upon hearing any motion read, it
mands all virtue and prohibits all vice. It is the was not the case with himself; and he thought
greatest bond of civil sociely, and we ought to take they ought to be content to hear every,'argument,
great care not to lessen its influence.
which gentlemen had to urge on any proposition to
Mr. QUINCY rose to a question of order. He alter the Constitution.
had hoped that the report would have been suffer- The question was then taken for reconsidering,
ed to lie on the table, until all the reports had been
the last vote and carried in the affirmative---310
acled on. The subjects are materially connected. to 18
This is connected intimately withi the 3d Article. It was then ordered, that Mr. Dearborn's reso-
PRESIDENT-The gentleman is himself now lutions be referred to a committee of the whole, be
out of order.
assigned for Monday at 11 o'clock, and in the
Mr. QUINCY_I am going to move to lay this meantime be printed.
report on the table.
CHOICE OF COUNCIL.
PRESIDENT-That will be in order.,
On motion of Mr. STORY the house went into ,
The motion being made and seconded, Mr. Q. committee of the whole on the report of the Stand.
proceeded to argue that the best course would be ing Commitee, on the 5th resolution respecting the
to go through in committee with all the reports, Council, &c.
before they were taken up in convention.
The question before the committee was upon Mr
Mr. RICHARDSON, of Hingham, spake in fa- Morton's amendment to the third resolution re-
vor of the motion.
ported by the Standing Committee. The amenda
The question was taken and decided in the affir- ment proposed that the Counsellors should be chos-
ņiative,
en by the people in convenient districts, one coun-
Mr. DEARBORN, of Roxbury, inquired wheth- sellor in each district.
er it would be in order to inove that the resolu- Mr. HOYT, of Deerfield, was opposed to the a
tons offered by lin yesterday be taken up.
mendment for several reasons. It would be im-
After soine conversation on the course most possible to make a satisfactory division of the
proper to be pursued, the resolutions were taken Commonwealth into districts. It was very easy for
up, and read, and motion was made that it should gentlemen to talk about districting, but iſ a coma-
be referred to a committee of the whole house.
mittee of that body were to take ibo census with
This inotion was decided in the negative-139 to, them into one of the lobbies, and attempt to make
176.
disti'cts, every one of them would be dissatisfied
Mr. QUINCY, stated that he had voted in the with any division that should be proposed. He
majority on the question just taken, and for the pur-
said there would be a difficulty likewise in agree-
pose that he might be in order to move a reconsid-ing upon candidates, and described the mode prac-
eration of the vote. He then moved that the vote tised in the nominations of Senatoi's. That the
be reconsidered, and proceeded to state his reasons Counsellors might all be of the same profession-
for it. In answer to a question whetủier it was a that the principle of electing them by the people
fair.construction of the rule relative to reconsider- was not carried far enough for consistency, as the
ation toivole in opposition to his opinion for the ex- people ought to supply vacancies just as much as
press purpose of giving him a right to call for the to elect in the first instance that the rights of the
question again, he said that it certainly was, and people were in fact taken away by this mode, by
that it was every day's practice, and for the reason entangling them with too much regulation.
that the gentleman who had made the motion had Mr. WEBSTER said, that in his judgment the
a right to be heard in support of it; but when he decision of the Consmittee would essentially
had waved that right, and any gentleman perceived | depend on a right understanding of tlié precise
that for want of explanation, the motion was likely question before it. Very various opinions had been
to be lost, it was perfectly right and common prac-entertained in this country on the subject of these
tice for him to give his vote against the motion,
Councils, and it would be a very wide field of de-
that he might be in order to move a reconsidera- bate, if it were all open. In one state, (N. H.) the
tion, and to state the reasons for the motion. Counsellors were choseo in districts, or couities,
Mr. DAWES, of Boston, said he yesterday, vo- by the people. In New-York, they were elected
ted in favor of the gentleman's proposition being by the House of Representatives, out of the Senate;
laid on the table, but he thought it a most unfortu- ll in Vermont, they were chosen by general ticket.
nate circunstance that he had introduced it. He As far as he recollected there were but two states,
was in favor however, of the gentleman being | Pennsylvania and Delaware, in which the Govern-
heard if he insisted upon it, though he yet hoped or exercised full executive powers, and had no
the motion would be withdrawa.
Council at all.' The power of appointments, in
!
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
er.
several states, rested principally with the Legisla- frequently be no choice, and when chosen thera
ture. In this Cominonwealth there had for forty would be a want of unanimity.
years, been a Council. It was not now.proposed to Mr. APTHORP of Boston was not convinced by
abolish it. This council possessed a negative. It was the arguments which had been hitherto advanced,
not proposed to take away that negative. The that the : mode proposed by the select conimittee
convention had decided that this Council should was not the best Gentlemen who talked so much
consist of seven members. Upon this state of the about thie people's rights might as well contend
case the question arises, how shall these seven that the people should choose the Secretary, Treas.
members be choseu ? The Hon. member from urer and Major Generals. The choice of Coun..
Dorchester, proposed to choose them in districts sellors was at present virtually by the. Legislature,
and to this he (Mr. W.), was opposed. Whatever since it was the custom for those elected from the.
he might think under other circumstances, since Senate to decline. The people had entrusted the
the Council was to consist of seven persons ouly, Legislature with the power of making the most im-
he was hostile to distriçi election. His main ob- portant laws, relating to the life and property of
jection was, that it might operate completely to the citizen; thiş was a much greater power than
paralyze the Executive Government. It was. that of choosing counsellors. And hy the amend-
matter of mathematical certainty, that supposing ment itself, the
resort was to the legislature to 'sup-
the state to be divided into, seven districts, to elect || ply vacancies. He hoped the amendment would
seven Cansellors; and supposing an election to be not be adopted.
contested, in the state, on the ground of any lead- Mr. AUSTIN of Boston said, that when the
iog question or subject, the Governor might be mode of choosing Counsellor's was under conside-
chosen by a majority of ten thousand, and yet a ration, the importance of the office should also be
majority of the Council be against bim; and this kept in view. All appointments to office and re- .
though the districts be fairly and equally made.- movals from office passed in review before the
There might be, for example, four Counsellor's Governor and Council
. The power of pardoning
chosen, in four districts, each by a majority criminals was lodged in their hands; questions re-
of one hundred votes ; --and there might be laung lo. the, inilitia, came before them; and many
three chosen, in the other districts, of op- other important questions of such magnitude, some.
posite sentiments, each by a majority of two ar of them, as to have shaken the foundations of the
three thousand votes. This was not only possible, political temple. The question then is, how. the.
þut quite probable. It had happened elsewhere, Counsellors shall be closen ; whether by the Le-
in effect and substance, not once only, but he be- 1 gislature or by the people?' and if by the people,
lieved three times in the course of seven or eight || whether by a general ticket or by districts? The
years. He alluded to a neighboring state, in which l objections to the first mode weré insuperable. It
cousellors were chosen by districts or counties.- was mixing the branches of the government, and
This was an entire disarming of the exccutive pow it would introduce cabals and intrigues into the
To choose a Governor, by the whole people, Legislature. The Legislature were not to be in
where every vote counts, and then to place round trusted with this power. Why? because they have.
him a council, chosen in local districts, the general abused it. What was the theory of our Constitu-
result of which might not express the real wishes tion ? That nine members should be selected from
and opinions of the whole people, was a paradox, the Senate who should serve as counsellors. Such
not easily reconciled. To vest the executive pow. was originally the practice. There were accidenta.
er in the Governor.chosen by all the people, and al vacancies of course. But in 1804. a majority,
yet to put him under the control of seven guard- and in 1805 the whole, of the Senators selected to
iaris, chosen in local districts, and often with a sit at the Council Board declined ; in violation of
viow to local purposes, appeared to him to be act- the intention of the Consụtution. Another great
ing at cross purposes. He maintained that it was principle ; although the idea might be sneered atz.
taking away from the whole people, the right of he would yet insist, that the people bad a right to
choosing the executive. It was more cruly a choice choose the council, and hy a direct, not a circuit-.
by the whole people when made by the immediate ous mode It was asked by the gentleman from
representatives of the whole people than when Boston, (Mr. Apthorp,) why are the Legislature.
made in local districts. He had nothing to say at permitted to choose the Secretary, Treasurer,
present upon choosing Counsellors by general tick- &c. The cases were not parallel. These officers
et ;—he had nothing to say upon the present ex- were accountable for their conduct; it was not so
isting mode. The question was simply on the pro- with members of the Council. Again, it was said,
priety of district elections; and he did maintain that a choice by the Legislature was a choice by
that such was not a fajr or effectual mode of con- the people. He devied it. Men had been se-
stituting a council which should be consonant with lected for this county who had not an inhabitancy
the wishes of a majority of the people. It was a here, and would not have been elected by the
mode in which a minority might, not in one case people. In regard to the two modes of
only, but in inany cases; not for one year anly, I choosing by the people, Mr.A. argued in favor of
but for many years, possess one branch of the ex- choosing by districts. It had been objected by.
ecutive government, and hold a negative on all im- the gentleman from Salem (Mr. Pickman) that
portant measures proposed by the chief magistrate | districts, would be made for party purposes; did
elected by the whole people.
the gentleman mean to argue from the abuse of the
Mr. HUSSEY considered it a valuable feature thing? We have districts for Senators and for
of the Constitution that there should be a council Representatives to Congress. Will the gentleman
-and that council should be so constituted that follow up his argument? Will he say that his
there shoald be a harmony between the Governor friends who have made these districts, have done it
and Council. In the Legislative bodies the differ-
for party purposes ? He will not, because it is not
ent parties and interests should be represented; true. But if the Legislature will divide the state into
but in the executive department there was no ad- districts for party purposes, they will choose Coun-
vantage in this. If there were conflicting parties sellors for party purposes. His object however was
in the Executive branch of the government the to have permanent districts. Some gentleman had
public business would suffer. The object of hav- said that the districts would be too large ; but if the.
ing a council who would act harmoniously with the whole people can vote for Governor without incon-
governor would be usually attained by choosing | venience, cannot one seventh part vote for a Coun.
them in convention of the two houses of the legisla- sellor? And what reason was there for taking one
ture. If they were chosen in districts, there would Counsellor from one part of the site and a...
1
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MASSACHUSETTS. CONVENTION.
107
V
1
t
Bother from another? To carry local information | They might wish to compel' the Senate to yield to
to the Council *boardinformation which their own views. One such question had already
would be useful in making appointments, and in arisen, several years in succession. They would
many other questions to be acted upon by the exe- only have to choose nine of the niost able nienibers
cutive. It was said the counsellors might happen to of the Senate, or such as they believed most oppo-
be all of one profession; so might all the senators, sed to their views;and it would leave the Senate ag
and yet the practical operation of the mode of their mercy. Was it to be supposed that the fram :
choosing them was otherwise. Again, it was said
:
the council might be divided in political sentiments; | They left it to every man to judge for himself of
this he considered one of the greatest arguments in the expediency of leaving the Senate to go into the
favor of a choice by districts. It would produce] Council. Besides this there were many gentlemen
discussion–different ideas would be started-nen
who might be willing to give their time and talents
would tax their ingenuity to support their opinions; to the public during the sessions of the Senate,who
this would enable the cool presiding genius to de-
Would and render themselves liable to be called
yet be
It was said by the gentleman from Boston, (Mr. lo perform its duties through every part of the
Webster), that districting would destroy the year. He next alluded to the argument of the
people's rights - by giving to a minority of gentleman from Boston, (Mr. Blake) who contend-
the people a majority in the council ; he ed that to choose by thie Legislature was robbing
could not see the force of the remark, or how the the people of their rights, and yet closed his
case differed from all elections by districts. One speech with proposing that this part of the Consti
more remark; having the minority of the people, tution should remain.
represented in the Council, though it would not Mr. BLAKE explained-He proceeded on the
control, as it ought not to do, would yet prevent ground that the people had the right by the consti-
measures from being carried with a high hand, and tution to act in the election of the council, and sub-
the bitterness of party would be allayed.. The mitted the proposition on the ground that if noth-
choice will thus be put on the ground the Consti- ing else could be done, we should revert to the
tution intended. The choice will be by the peo- mode prescribed in the constitution.
ple--it is the people's right. You may transfer Mr.STORY, did not agree in the gentleman's
this right to another body, but you may as well premises, nor his conclusion. Does not the consti-
transfer
any other of their rights. You may re- lution proceed on the ground that the representa-
move one of the main pillars of a temple, and yet tives are worthy to be trusted ? To suppose they
the building may stand; but it will be in a dilapida- are not, looks like a denial, not of right, but of
ted condition and the beauty of the architecture good sense to the people. He alluded to what had
will be lost.
been said of caucuses--and legislative caucises...
Mr STORY, of Salem, went into á full årgu- He vindicated the practice of holdivg caucuses for
ment against the amendment. We shall give only the purpose of making nomination, as useful and
the general heads of his speech. He stated the necessary. If the legislature abuse the power's
immediate question lo be whether the proposition with which they are entrusted, the people will
of the Select Committee for the choice of a coun- choose other men who will not. He was not a.
cil of seven persons by the Legislature should be ware that there had been abuses. Where there
struck out, and that of the gentleman from Dor- «vere political parties it was natural that friends
chester to choose seven counsellors by the people should consult together, and it was proper that
they should. If it is the representatives of thie
had been treated as if it were a question about the majority; they are bound to see that the will of the
rights of the people. It was not in the power of || majority is carried into effect, and if they do not
the Convention to take away the rights of the act with concert; the minority will slip in against
people, and no one had any inclination to do it. - | the will of the people. He was not aware that any
The question was whether the people will retain injury had resulted from this practice. When he
in their own hands the power of electing counsel- looked back to the illustrious men who had filled
lors directly, or will delegate it to the two branches the chair of Chiet Magistrate-the illustrious nien
of the Legislature. And the determination of this in the Council-wlien he considered the uniform
question rests on their free pleasure. There may practice of sending good men to the Council, he
be a difference of opinion. But it is not a diminu- denied that there could have been any abuse. He
tion of the rights of the people to delegate a part relied upon the fact and demanded of gentlemen
of their power. It is in this way only that civil 10 point out an instance, when nien unworthy of
government is founded—it is a delegation of pow- the station had been chosen to the office.
ers to allow the Senate and Representatives to It had been his misfortune, perhaps his fault,
make laws, and if the people may delegate the to be a great proportion of the time in the minority
power of, making all the laws, may they not that in this commonwealth, and he had always been
of making appointments ? Why do not the people proud of the men who under the auspices of those.
reserve to themselves all appointments the dele- opposed to him had been raised to the high offices
gation to the chief magistrate is a surrender of in the Commonwealth. if districts were 10 he
power, but it is useful and necessary. Every thing formed; caucuscs must continue to exist. There
dear to us must be overturned if this right of delega- was no other way in whichi nominations could be
tion is not to be preserved. The question is whether made unless you take the nomination from an in-
the people can exercise their own rights most con- dividual. They tend 10 conciliation and unanimi.
veniently in one mode or in the other. He pro- ty. They are no evil but the necessary conse-
ceeded to inquire whether the recent practice in quence of popular elections, and they can only be
appointing counsellors was a violation of the Con- disused when we become so corrupt as to surren-
stitution, and contended that the practice was per- der our rights into the hands of some civil or mili-
fectly.conformable both to the text and spirit of the tary chiel--a period which lie trusted never would
Constitution. He insisted that the Constitution arrive. He proceeded to notice an eror which had
left it entirely to the option of the Senators elected crept into the debate--that the counsellors are now
to the council, to decline, and tbat this was a wisé chosen directly by the people. Tie then stated sev-
provision. If it had been otherwise the more nu- eral specific objections to the proposition of the gen-
merous branch of the Legislature would'always tleman from Dorchester now before the commit-
have the Senate in its power.
its power. Not only on politi- i.tee. Firse, it has on the face of it the plausible
cal questions, but on others whiclı might arise. - appearance, that the people choose, but rous the
.
!
1
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION
t
108
opere
manner
as
majority of the people of the right. This hag ri motion was rejected the question would still be the
mos
inan from Bostou (Mr. Webster
and Me. gentle I pen for proposing any other mode;
but if the
tion was agreed to, it excluded; not only the pro:
ceeded to illustrate it farther. He showed that the position of the select Committee, but all other
Governour might be chosen by-a majority of 10, or modes. He was opposed to the amendment; but
15,000 votes, and yet a majority of the Council | if gentlemen did not wish to speak further in sup-
chosen in districts by the same voters might be of port of it, he was willing to wave his right to speak
opposite opinions to those of the Governour. I against it. Otherwise. he should claim his privi-
2d: It would hazard the governor being surround- || lege.
'ed by a majority of men of different opinions. It Mr. QUINCY expressed his opinion against al-
would become the leading object of party conten- tering the principle of election already established
tion, instead of baving a governör of particular o- by the constitution,
pinions, to surround him by a council who would Mr. BLISS rose in support of the amendment
thwart him in all his measures The popular lead because he had been particularly called upon. He
er of a district would be the real governor: The thought there would be no difficulty in forming the
governor chosen by the people would always find districts.
one behind the thironë greater than himself. It Mr. BI.AKE moved that the committee rise.---
would be in effect to abolish the office of governor He wished to have an opportunity to answer the
and set sever wise men in his stead. 3d. In this arguments of gentlemen, and it could not be done
way the people would lose the power of making the without going into the details of the subject which
most judicious selection of counsellors-of adaptıg he would not think of entering upon at this hour
the selection of each according to the persons to be of the day.
associated with him. 4th. It would be throwing
Mr. PARKER thought the question had been
out another lure for perpetual party spirit it would fully discussed and that the“ committee was ripe
become necessary to carve out seven equal dis-
for a decision. If not he was willing to sit there
tricts, to be changed every ten years throughout all || until the sun irent down for the purpose of bring:
time; and the formations of these districts would be
ing the discussion to a close.
the great object of political power. To suppose The motion that the conmittee should rise was
that the power of forming them would never be a-
put and decided in the negative.-97 to 256.
hused, would he disregarding all human prudence.
Mi. MITCHELL, of Nantucket, thought that
Without alluding to what had already happened, it the state of the question bad not been correctly ex-
was easy to foresee that such would be the effect plained by the gentleman from Bosion, (Mr. Dul-
of the propositioni. 5th. A further objection wag
ton:] he wished to be mformed.
founded on the present distribution of powers on- Mr. WEBSTER said that the prepositiou was
der the constitution. The senatorial districts were
to amend so that the election should be in districts.
never to be less than ten, and the legislature were All who were in favor of districts would vote for
never to have the discretion to cut and carve
the motion, and all who were for any other mode
in such
to unite part of one would vote against it.
county witli another.
Counties were framed Mr. AUSTIN called for a division of the ques.
for particular purposes, and by tlie habit of asso-
tion. The Chairman pronounced it indivisible.
siation acquired a feeling of common interest.-
Mr. TILLINGHAST, of Wrentham, said he
But this feeling could not be extended beyond the
should vote against the resolution, because he
limits of counties. Yet to form these districts one
wished to have an opportunity of moving to aiend,
county must be united with another, and often lose
so that the choice should be by the people on a
all its powers by being attached to one to which it general, ticket:
has a particular dislike. Forthese reasons (which
The question on Mr. Morton's amendment was
are here but briefly and very imperfectly stated] lie then taken and decided in the negative, 149 to $1.
was entirely opposed to Mr. Morton's proposition. Mr. FOSTER moved that the committee rise-
Mr.LINCOLN, of Worcester, opposed the a- decided in the negativc-146 to 241.
mendment. He thought it would be easy to satis- Mr. TILLINGÜAST then moved as a substitute
fy the gentlemen who were in favor of it that it
for the resolution of the select committee; that the
was impractible to carry the proposjtion into effect
Constitution be so amended that the Governor
inainanner that should be satisfactory. He pro- Lieut. Governor and seven Counsellors be annual-
eeeded to a particular examination if the modes in
Jy chosen by the people on one ticket; one Coun-
which the districting might be attempted to show
sellor only to be chosen from one Senatorial Dis.
the insuperable difficulties which must be encounter-
trict.
ed. He next inquired in what manner nominations
The question was takes and decided in the nego
would be made in the several districts, for the pur- ative--136 to 22%.
pose of showing that the result must be less satis-
A resolution was then moved by Mr: BLISS in
factory than if made by the Representatives of the
substance, that the Counsellors be chosen in tlie .
people chosen for the purpose. He contended
manner now provided by tie Constitution, excett
that the appointment by the Legislature was the that there should be butonic Counsellor in a District.
mode most consistent with the rights of the people A motion to rise was decided in the negative-
and argued that under the constitution the people 179 to 200.
have never directly chosen counsellors--that ihe Mr. BLISS's motion was then put, and bega-
inode of electing by the two houses of the Legisla- lived.
ture has been sanctioned by the people—that it Mr. BLAKE offered a resolution providing
would have a most injurious effect to introduce in- that the choice should he by a general ticket, and
to the Council men of opposite opinions to thwart stating some of the details of the mode of choices
the views of the Executive, and that it would in- Mr. FOSTER renewed the motion that the
troduce a principle by which iinproper approach- committee rise: Negatived, 174 to 195.
es would be made to the Executive tlírough the Mr. BLAKE spoke in support of his motion al
Counsellor's this selected,
some length.
Mr. DUTTON rose to call the attention of the Mr. ADAMS, of Quincy, who had been refér-
Committec to the precise state of the question. It red to by the gentleman who last spoke,said he was
was on the motion of the gentleman froin Doiches-
very sorry that any gentleman of the Committee
ter to aiend fy striking out the proposition of the should allude to him. That he was the
gelect Committeeto choose by joint ballot, and sub- tative of a small town, and that no more weight
stituting die mode of choosing by districts. If the ought to be given to his opinion, than to that of
marin
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
09
i
dér.
other delegate. He had been very cautious in Mr VARNUM said it was proposed to fill thë
speaking from memory in regard to the history of blank with four thousand dollars.
the Convention of 1780, but he thought there was Mr. PÀRKER thought it unnecessary to make
a great variety of opinions in that Convention, re- an alteration nerely on account of the currency;
specting the Council. He believed that no mem- or for the sake of adding five or six huildred dola
ber of it ever supposed that any Senator, chosen a lars to the present sun.
Counsellor, should decline; much less that the Mr. QUINCY said if a new constitution were
whole nine should decline, and retain their seats in to be formed, it might be proper to pay regard to
Senate. He did not believe there was a men- the technical accuracy proposed in the resolution;
ber of that Convention, who would have wished but what were they sent there for? Not to intro:
the people to be deprived of the right of electing duce perfectibility into the Constitution; (if he
the Counsellors. He should vote in favor of the might use a word that was not English) but to
amendment.
make such substantial alterations as were necessa-
The motion to rise was repeated and decided in ry. There would be no end of verbal alterations,
the negative, 125 to 225.
and the people would only be confused, if called
The question on Mr. Blake's äinendment was
upon to vote upon all the minute altérations pro-
taken and carried, 193 to 179.
posed in that and other reports of the standing
The committee thén rose and reported their a- committees There were but two ainendments
greement to the resolutions as amended.
which he was desirous of making. One was to
It was ordered iliat tlie report should lie on the alter the Senate, so as to meet the present circum.
table and be printedi
stances; and this because it was necessary. An-
Adjourned:
otlier was to provide for making future amënda
mėnts. But gentlemen were proposing to strike
out this word and that word, for the sake of verbal
FRIDAY, DEC. 8. accuracy. Here it was proposed to strike out the
The Convention met at 9 o'clock, and attended
Christian religion.
prayers offered by the Rev. Mr. Jeñks. After the Sónie member called thë genileñan to order, the
reading of the Journal,
question being for filling the blank.
Mr. WARD, of Boston, Chairman of the Stand- Mr: DAWES of Bostov said he thought ibley.
ing Committee on the 6th Resolution, to whom the were talking of dollars and cents.
subject was committed; reported the following res-
Mr. QUINCY contended he was in order:
olution :
Mr. DAWES. --The gentleman was not in or?
Resolved, That the Constitution be so a?
Mr. QUINCY said he had aš lieľ be called to
mended in the ninth article of the first sec-
order as not, with respect to himself; but lie was
tion of the second chapter of the second part; contending for the rights of that assembly Не
that the Governor shall have power, , by and was contending that the making so many minute al-
with the advice and consent of the Council; || terations would throw the people into intellectual
confusion.
to fill up all vácancies which may happen, in The CHAIRMAN said if the gentleman intra.
the recess of the General Court, in the offices duced the Christian religion for the sake of argu-
of Secretary and Treasurer, by granting com- ment against the resolution, he was in order:
inissions which shall expire in
Mr: QUINCY said he trusted that body were
ter the commencement of their next session.
not be confined by the strict rúles of Courts of tas-
The report being read; was committed to the
tịce where the mode of proceeding was like walk
irhole on the report of the select committee on that
ing a crack; or like a cart lorse on a rail wäy..
part of the constitution relating to the Governor;
If he generalized, it was to shet the absurdity of
Militia, &c.
the particular proposition..
Mr. Root of Granville, and Mr. Gardner, of South
Mr: SALTONSTALL rose to move that the
consideration of this resolution should be postpon-
Brimfield, had leave of absence on account of ill
health.
ed until certain principles involved in 'other reports
On motion of Mr. VARNUM; the convention re
should be settled. The' propriety of adopting the
solved itself into committee of the whole; on the re-
first part of the resolution depended upon the firode.
sort of the select committee on that part of the con-
in which the amendments were to be incorporated
ha
stitution which relates to the Governor, Militia; &c.
Mr: Blakė, of Boston; in the chair.
The propriety of adopting the second part depend-
The report having been read, the first resolution
ed upon the decision which should be made on a
reported was taken into consideration as follows :
report which was now láid on the table; and which
Resolved, That it is expedient to alter and
would be tlie subject of discussion. It would be
improper to go into the discussion of that subject,
amend the second article of the said 1st sec-
as it was incidentally introduced in this resolution,
tion by striking out the words “s one thousand and we could not act upon this resolution until the
pounds” and inserting instead there of " principle was settled.
ihousand dollars" ; and also by striking out
Mr. NICHOLS wished that thie motion to post-
pone miglit be withdrawn until he should have an
the words " and unless he shall declare him-
opportunity of moving an amendinënt to the reso-
self to be of the Christian religion.”
Intion: Mr. Saltonstall having withdrawn his mo-
Mr. VARNUM, said that the ohjéct of the first tion, Mr. V. moved that the resolution should be
change was to accommodate the sum stated as the so amended as to declare that the constitution
qualification, to the present currency of the country, ought to be so altered; as that no pecuniary quali-
and that the committee did not propose to make, a- fication should be required for office.
ny material change iú. the äidiount. In the latter Mr DANA considered this an inadmissible pro-
part of the resolution they proposed to accommo- position. The report related only to a particular
date tlie constitution to tlie principle that had' al- office. The proposition wils to make an amenda i
ready been settled by a vote of the convention. ment that it should extend to all offices.
Mr. QUINCY of Boston hoped the question Mr VICHOLS so modified his ancndmeni that
would be divided, so as not to put the Christian It should extend only to the office of Goverītour.!
religion on the same footing with pounds, shillings He then moved that the resolution should lie A.
the table,
days af-
99
and pence
15
.
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
Mr. WEBSTER said the committee could not the acceptance or rejection of the amendments
lay the resolution on the table. A motion to post- proposed by the Convention, to go into the discuss
pone the consideration of the resolution would sion of each particular part.'. This report had not
gain tlie gentleman's object,
been accepted by the Convention and he hoped
Mr. PĂRKER thought the principle involved they would not adopt that course. If the Commit:
in the amendment might as well be settled now as tee had proposed alterations which the Convention
ever. It could not be necessary to postpone it to did not see fit to approve; he should have nothing
accommodate the gentleman who made the motion, to object on that, subject. But he supposed that
for_he apprehended that no gentleman would make the Convention having submitted the several parts
a proposition to make a specificamendment to the to committees and they having reported, the Con-
constitution, without having well considered his vention would act on each specific alteration pro-
reasons,
posed in their reports.
Mr. NICHOLS said it was an anti-republican | Mr. ADAMS, of Quincy, rose to inquire, whether
principle, to exclude from office by requiring any pounds shillings and pence were a legal currency;
qualification of this kind. Every republican will because the national computation had been adop:
wish the fees of office to be sufficient to support ted, which was iu a decimal ratio.
the dignity of the office. No pecuniary qualifica- Mr. MATTOON, of Amherst, said the standing
tion was required by the Constitution of the U. S. Committee had proposed this alteration, to agree
for the highest magistrate underit, neither was any with the national computation:
Our children
such required by our Constitution, in regard to the would hardly know the meaning of pounds.
Judges of the Supreme Court: There was as Mr. JACKSON; of Boston, thought that this ar
much reason for requiring it in tliese cases as in mendment involved the discussion of a question,
relation to the office of Governor. It might hap- which the house would be obliged to meet in an-
pen, that the wisest and best man among us might other shape. The propriety of the amendment
be poor, and on that account we must be deprixed | depended upon the question, whether the constitu-
of his services. He had urged the sanie argument, tion was to be taken into a new draft, or whether
the other day, against the test, that it was anti- the amendments were to be proposed to the people
republican, and he hoped the relics of the bigotry and adopted in the form of independent proposi-
of our ancestors would now be done away.
tions. If the constitution were to be drafted anew
Mr. DANA, of Groton, spoke in favor of retain- there could be no doubt that it would be proper to
ing a pécuniary qualification:
substitute the term dollars for pounds in this instance
Mr. D. DAVIS, of Boston; said he presumed and others in which it occurs, and to make various .
one reason of the qualification was, that iſ the other verbal alterations, which in the other modé
Governor shonld be within the limits, he could of proceeding would not be ofany importance. Yet
but discharge the duties of his offee.
he saw no objection to proceeding at present with
Mr. NICHOLS'S amendment was negatived. out regard to this consideration, and considering in
Mr. VARNUM, moved to fill the blank with cominiitee of the whole, how many altera-
four thousand dollars.
tions it is expedient to make. The other question
Mr. PRINCE, of Boston, hoped we should not may depend upon this; and when the convention
adopt this amendment. He did not think it was come to reduce the amendments to form, whatever
nécessary. The mere change of denomination form shall be adopted, it will not be bound by the
was of no consequence.
decision here. The present mode of expression is
Mr. FOSTER was opposed to increasing the not liable to any ambiguity or uncertainty, because
gum above one thousand pounds. He should pre- in another part of the constitution it is provided
fer inserting three thousand dollars:
that where sums of money are mentioned they shall
Mr. STURGIS, of Boston, thought that to insert be taken at the rate of six and eight pence per
four thousand dollars was not fixing the qualifica-
ounce in silver.
tion higher than it was at the time of the adoption Mr. D. DAVIS, of Boston, said that he had been
of the constitution. The depreciation in the val- at an early period of the proceedings of opinion
ue of money was more than equivalent to the in- that difficulties would arrise from its vot being
crease in the sum proposed.
distinctly understood in what manner the amendo
The question on filling the blank with 4000 dol- ments agreed to should be incorporated into the
lars was taken and decided in the Negative. constitution. Many amendments, had been pro-
Mr. PRESCOTT, of Boston, said he voted a- posed on the presumption thät the constitution was
gainst filling the blank with the sum proposed, not io be drafted anew. His opinion had been uniform-
because he thought it was too high, but because he ly against this course; and he should vote for no
thought that no alteration of the Constitution in ålteration which had not been rendered necessary
this respect was necessary. He was not surprised or proper by a change of the circumstances of the
that this amendment was proposed. It would have country, and the propriety of which should not be
been perfectly proper if we were now to make a acceded to with some degree of unanimity. He
new draft of the Constitution and alter it where it thought it was line that it was settled in what man-
was thought susceptible of improvement in phrase- ner the amendments were to be frapied, and that
ology or minute details. But it seemed to be gen- some defipile determination would be found neces
erally understood that a different mode of amend- sary before we could act upon this report and upon
ient should be adopted which would render trif- some others, particularly; that upon the declaration
ling alterations of this sort unnecessary and improper of rights. The report last mentioned proposed a
Mr. VARNUM said that we were sent here to number of alterations that are entirely verbal. He
make all necessary and expedient alterations in the wished the sense of the convention could be taken
constitution. We appointed Committees on the upon the propositions submitted by the comittee
different parts of the constitution and instructed iiistructed to consider in what manner the amendi-
them to propose all such alterations as they should ments shall be submitted to the people. Until sóme
think expedient. On this ground, the Committees digested plan should be lagreed on, tliey would be
had proceeded in drawing up their reports. Two constantly afloat respecting particular and verbal
gentlemen had alluded in debate to a mode of pro- amendments. If they proceeded to discuss verbal
posing the amendments to the people as settled.- and minute alterations, and it should be decided a-
He was not aware that any thing had been settled l gainst making a new draft, the time so employed
on this point. He knew there was a report which would be lost:-
proposed a mode of proceeding, that would render Mr. WEBSTER was satisfied that this and oth-
it Becessary for towns, before giving their votes for er reports were such as it would be impossible to
i
.
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
111
agt upon. It was not from any want of care, or off, not able now to decide upon the question whether
ability on the part of those who have brought for- the aipendments should be submitted in the manner
ward the reports, but from an uncertainty which proposed, and if decided in favor of this mode, it
has existed with respect to the node of carrying would save the trouble of discussing verbal amend
the amendments into effect. He thought that one ments. Whether the amendments which involve
thing was indispensable that every report should any principle were large or small-there would
contain plain, simple and independent propositions, be no difficulty in acting on them in this form.
which could be understood without any reference. The question was taken and decided in the affira
to the part of the constitution to which they apply. iative, 229 to 10.1.
Propositions had been made to amend the consti- The resolutions reported by the committee were
tution by striking out parts and changing words, then read, and the Convention proceeded to con-
as if it had been a bill before the house in which sidor the first resolution.
the clerk might erase or insert with his pen at pleas- Mr. JACKSON moved to fill the first blank, sa
ure, [Mr. W. was here called to order and inter- that the people should give in their votes upon the
rupted by some discussion of a question of order, on amendments ou the second Monday of April next,
the supposition that the question before the com- Mr: STURGIS of Boston thought it inexpedient
mittee was on filling the blank in the resolution. to fill the blank at present, as from the course they
The chairman decided that Mr.W. was in order and were pursuing, the Convention might continue in
he proceeded to speak on the Resolution.] He said session until the day which had been named.
that if the house voted to make an alteration by The question was taken upon Mr. Jackson's
striking out one line and inserting another, they | motion, and carried in the affirmativec-182 to 113.
would find thenigelves entangled by the fornt of the Mr. WEBSTER said the principal object in
resolution. No committee appointed to draft the final taking up the report had reference to the mode,
amendment could put it into a different form. He and not the time of submitting the amendments to
thought it would be impossible to act on the report the people; he therefore moved to postpone the
but by recommitting it to the select committee with present resolution and pass to the fourth.
instructionsthatthey shouldreport in a form in which Mr. PRINCE of Boston had not ëxpected this
it could be understood. If we resolve that we will subject would be taken up at présent, and had con-
amend the constitution by striking out an Sin such sequently not made up his mind upon it. The mode
a paragraph andşuch a line, and inserting a word in of submitting the amendments to the people, would
such another line-by striking out nine in such a depend upon their number and importance. He
paragraph and inserting seven, it is not a proposi- | believed a new draft might be made; and the Con
tion that can be submitted to the people in a form stitution yet remain the Constitution of 1780, as an
ja which they can understand it. He proceeded to mended in 1820. If this course were not adopted,
illustrate the difficulty and the means of avoiding he apprehended, that instead of one Convention
it by other examples. The difficulty would exist here, there would be four hundred in the common-
in whatever forra it was attempted to submit the wealth.
amendment to the people.
Mr. QUINCY said all the resolutions compased
Mr. WHITTEMORE, of West Cambridge, mo- one system, and they had better be taken up in their
ved to fill the blank with 3000 dollars.
order.
Mr. DANA was ready to assent to this proposi- Mr. WEBSTER said the 4th resolution was not
tion, because it was provided in another part of ať all connected with the preceding ones, and that
the Constitution, to which he referred, that the all our committees were embarrassed, for want of
sum might be increased by the Legislature. knowing the form in which the amendments were
Mr. STARKWEATHER moved that the com- to be submitted to the people.
mittee rise.
The motion to take up the 4th resolution was
This motion was decided in the affirmative, 242 put, and decided in the affirmative--182 to 71
to 94.
The 4th Resolution was as follows, viz"
The committee rose, and leave to sit again was
Resolved, that all the amendments made
refused.
Mr.WEBSTER moved to recommit the report || by this Convention, shall be proposed in dis
to the same committee. He meant no disrespect tinct Articles ; each Article to consist, as far
to the committee. He knew the difficulties which as may be, of one independent proposition ;
belonged to the subject; but he thought they
thought they and the whole to be so arranged that, upon
would be able to present it in the form in which
it might be acted on more satisfactorily.
the adoption or rejection of any one or more
Mr VARNUM wished if it was recommitted,
of them, the other parts of the Constitution
the Convention would give the committee somein- may remain complete, and consistent with
structions. They had already acted according to each other. And if any two or more propo.
their
own opinion of what was best.
PRESIDENT. The committee would
sitions shall appear to be so connected to-
what course was adopted by the Convention in re-
gether, that the adoption of one and the rea
lation to the report respecting the form of submit- ||jection of another of them would produce a
ting the amendments to the people.
repugnance between, different parts of the
Mr. VARNUM said it would be better that the
Constitution, or woud introduce an altera
report should lie on the table.
tion therein not intended to be proposed by
Mr. WEBSTER withdrew nis moțion to recom-
mit and moved that the report lie on the table. this Convention, such two or inore proposic .
Agreed-to.
tions shall be combined in one Article. And
Mr. JACKSON moved that the report on the each of the.said Articles shall be considered
mode of submitting the amendments to the people as a distinct Amendment, to be adopted in
should be taken inta, consideration.
Mr. VARNUM. How is it possible to deter-
the whole, or rejected in the whole, as the
mine upon this subject until it is decided what people shall think proper.
shall be the amendments ?
Mr. STURGIS was opposed to adopting the.
Mr. JACKSON said that the questions present-
resolution at this time. He could see no objection
ed by this report undoubtedly depended in part
to acting upon the principles in the reports of the
upon what amendments should be made. But Select Committees, and letting them lie on the tao
he did not know wby the Convention were
ble till all were gone through. The principles 42
see
8
112
t
MASSACHUSETTS GONVENTION,
1
dopted might then be put together and composed to (1ject a part of the amendments offered to them, but
that they must accept or reject the whole.
Mr. JACKSON said, that when the committee
,
Mr. FOSTER thought it would be unreasona...
met, three different modes presented themselves, ble to deprive the people of the power of acting
for submitting the amendments to the people for upon each distinct amendment. Thęy should have
their adoption. The first was, to make a nevy the same priyilege of voting upon each proposition
draft
, repealing all the present Constitution; the that the members of the convention'hare.
second, to put all the amendments into one article. Mr. D DAVIS wished to ascertain what would
To both of these modes there was the sạnie objec- be the effect and operation of the report. As far
tion. For, if a large number of amendinents as he understood il,' he was heartily in favour of
should be submitted, which he hoped, however, the resolution under consideration, because iť
would not be the case, the people would be obliged wonld leave us to pursue a course that was clear.
to adopt all of tliein or reject all of thein. For in- and practicable. Distinct amendments were to be
stance, if tèn amendments should be proposed, nine | submitted to the people for their adoption or res
of which should be agreeable to the people, but jection. Those adopted would forni a part of the
the tenth not so, they would be compelled to adopt Constitution, thasé rejected would become a dead
the tenth for the sake of the nine, or reject the letter. The result would be clearly understood and
nine, on account of the tenth. It was desirable to would acconiplish the objęct intended by this re.
have the people adopt such amendments as were vision. The effect of the other mode, if his opin-
ågreeable to then and such only; the tbird mode ion was correct, would be different. If all the a.
therefore seemed to be the fair'est, which was, mendments were submitted in one article, they
to offer the amendments singly, It was thought by. might or might not be adopted. If adopted there
the committee that it would not be a fáir exercisë would perhaps be no difficulty ; but if rejected the
of the powers of the Convention and would not be present Constitution would remain unältered-á
doing justice to their constituents, unless every state of things exceedingly to be deprecated.
proposition were submiited separátély for their as Mr.'WILDE rose to make some reply to the
doption or rejection."But heře a difficulty occur- argument of the gentleman from Dracut. He
.
red, that one proposition might have a necessary thought that it was an unfortunate mistake in the
connection with another; in such a manner that if
act, if it was a true construction which the gentle:
one were accepted and the other rejected it man had given it. But he contended that it was
might produce an absurdity. For instance; suppose not a correct construction of the paragraph, that
there should be a balancing of the Senate and the the present Constitution shall be and remain the
House of Representatives--that the House Constitution of the Commonivealth” if any one of
should be l'educed, if the Senate was reduced ; the amendments was rejected. The act provides
in cases of this kind it was manifest that there that if the amendments are “ratified by the people
should be an ëxception to the foregoing principle, in the manner directed by the Convention, the
and that all the propositions so connected ought to Constitution shall be deemed and taken to be alter-
be united in one article. It also occurred that
ed or amended accordingly.". A part of that man-
there might be some amendinents which the peo- ner of ratifying will be, that if they adopt any one
ple would not understand, for want of knowing or more of the amendments proposed it shall be a
their connection with the Constitution ; it was mended accordingly. He was satisfied that all.
thought expedient that such amendınệpts should be výbo were in favour of the Constitution, as it now
prepared in such a manner that the people might stands, and against any amendment, would be most
see at once their connexion with the constitution. likely to gain their object hy connecting the amend
It was thought by the committee that the amend- ments in one article. This would he the most
ments should be presented in such a manner as to likely mode to lead to the rejection of the whole,
show at the same time both the old provision of but the committee' were unanimously of opinion
the constitution and the alteration proposed. For that this would be an improper mode. He, pro
mistance, that the meeting of the Legislature shall eeeded to explain the opéralion of this mode of
be in January jgstead of May. With this would submitting the amendments. It would give the
bave to be coupled thë amendment making a people an opportunity to adopt such as they choose
change in the time of the elections. In this mian- and would not compel
, them to reject such as they
ñer there would be no need of altcring the Con- approve because connected with such as they disa
stitution at all, so as to say that this word“ or that approve. Verbal amendments, such as the sub-
word, shall be inserted or struck out.
stitution of "authority of the Legislature" for
Mr. QUINCY thought there was a better mode " Legislative authority” and “ citizen” for “ sub-
phan the one proposed, and that this mode was ut- ject" could not be submitted to the people in this
terly impracticable He thought it wouid be bet- mode. But it was not important to touch ibe Con-
rer to have only two articles, one of them containing stitution for these purposes, unless where the con-
the mode for amending the Constitution in future; struction is doubtful, nor was il wise or useful to ga
the other containing all the other amendments, into these älterations.
Mr. WEBSTER said that when the Constitu- My. QUINCY said it would be in some degree
tion of New Hampshire was revised, the Conven- to insult the people'to submitto iheni a proposicio:
tión submitted the amendments to the people for of this kind." It would be impracticable for them
their adoption separately, and it was found at the to examine and discuss intelligently such a number
adjourned: session of the Convention that some of propositions, and it would be lelt' to accident
zvere adopted and some rejcsled so as 10 make whetliér many of tliem would he accepted or re-
incongruotis'those which were adopted. The Con- ljected. All i contend is, mate the propositions dis.
vention then pursued the course reported by the tinct and so few that the people may understand
Committee, of uniting in one article all that ivere thieni.
pecessarily connected, and no firtäer difficulty oc- Mr. LINCOLN expressed his entire concur-
çurred.
rence in the proposition offered by <he comniit-
Mr. 'VARNUM agreed with the gentleman from lee: He answered the objections of the gentleman
Boston, (Mr. Quincy) on the propriety of submit- fróı Boşton. He-thought that the proposition
ting all the amendments togéther for the adoption was entirely practicable: 'The 'amendments-might
of the people. He'wislied for information respect- be submitted to the people in so distinct, a form
ing the ;3d 'sertion of the act for calling the Conven- that there could be no difficulty in acting upon
tion; he secmed to think that 'hy that section the them. The objection seemed to presuppose
Beople were not at biberiy to accept a part' and re- great degree of indifference, or want of intelli-
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION, ,
113
+
mover.
genge on the part of the people. He'argued that parts
, tirey cannot the whole. The amendments
if several propositions were submitted together, are not to be voted down, but to be discussed ; and
all who objected to any one of thein, although they if discussed, it can be much better done, by taking
approved of all the rest, would vote' against the plain propositions in the form in wliich they may be
whole, and that although there might not be a ma- submitted to them, ihan by taking the whole con-
jority of opinions againsı any amendment singly, istitution, and proceeding in it, by sections :
they might all be rejected because it would be im- The question was then taken upon the motion to
possible to vote against one without voting against postpone the resolutions, and decided in the nega-
all.
tive, 111 to 250.
Mr. HOLMESGİn reply to the objection to The question was then taken on the acceptance
submitttng the amendments in distrct parts, that of the 4th Resolution, and decided in the aforma-
the people would not be able to understand them, tive.
said if they could not act intelligenily upon the
The other Resolutions, on motion of Mr. WEB-
parts, they could not act with intelligence upon the STER, were laid on the table.
whole. He gave his reasons for approving of the
Mr. STARKWEATHEŘ moved that when the
resolution.
Convention adjourned, it should adjourn to 30'-
Mr. BLAKE thought there was an intrinsic dif- clock in the Afternoon.
ficulty in the subject. But he thonght that before This motion was afterwards withdrawn by the
gentlemen objected to the mode proposed by
the Committee, they ought to be required to furn- Mr. BLISS, renewed the motion for Afternoon
ish a substitute. If all the amendments were stat- Sessions, after Monday next. After some debate
ed to the people to be accepted or rejected togeth- the question was decided in the negative, 92 to 234.
er, and the people should reject the whole, we Leave of absence was grantedt Messrs. Arey.
should be left in a deplorable state. The same of Wellfleet, Austin of Charlestown, Bartlett of
objection would exist to submitting the amended Plymouth, and Hamilton of Palmer.
constitution in a new draft. There was a like ob- Leave was refused to Mr. Weston of Middle..
jection to the proposition of the Rev. gentleman borough, and also to four other gentlemen, who
from Boston.
applied on accouut of professional business, in the
Mr. ENOCH MUDGE, of Lynn, inquired if the Courts in Worcester County.
amendments should be sent out in this way to the The house then adjourned.'
people for adoption, whether they would hereaf-
ter be printed and used in the form of an appen-
dix to the constitution or whether they could be in-
SATURDAY, DEC, 9.
corporated into the body of it so that any one who The House was called to order at twenty mins.
should wish to read it hereafter would be alile to utes past 9 o'clock, and the journal of yesterday
read it without reading, at tlie same time, the re-
was read:
jected parts of the constitution.
Mr. PRINCE, of Boston, moved to take up the
The President explained. The adoption of these report of the Coinmittee of the whole on the sub-
resolutions would not preclude any proposition for
.
effecting the object which the gentleman from ect of the Council
Lynn had in view.
Mr. QUINCY, of Boston, said that according to
the understanding of a former day, all the reports
Mr. FLINT thought the greatest difficulty would of the committee of the whole were to lie on
arise in the town of Boston. I, when submitted
the table witil all the reports of the select
for adoption there should be 100 gentlemen, who Committees were acted upon in Committee of the
wished to debate it, he was aware it would take whole. Otherwise he should be under the neces-
a great deal of time. But he wished they should
sity of making a motion sooner than he intended
do it at their own expense, and that the convention to have done. He wished to get to the subject of:
should not consume time, to avoid this difficulty, the Senate as soon as possible, and the motion he
other ,
if
they shonld reject all the amendments but that thirty one members, and that the Counsellors shall
which related to the Senate, he should be glad.- be taken from the Commonwealth at large.
We should still have a constitution and be on safe Mr. PRINCE withdrew his motion.
ground.
Mr. RICHARDSON, of Hingham, proposed
Mr. WILLIAMS, was satisfied with the report, that the report of the standing Committee on the
but asked whether it would not preclude the draft- Declaration of Rights should be taken up.
ing the constitution in the amended form. If it A question was asked whether it had not been
could be done by a committee, or in other way, || assigned fer Monday
he should be better satisfied. 'He thought it im- Mr. BLISS, the Chairman of the Committee,
portant that the constitution as amended should be said it had been assigned for Friday, but it was un,
in a form ia which it could be read and understood derstood, that it should not come on till Monday,
without reading the old constitution.
the reports on the Judiciary and on the Senate &c.
Mr. PARKER, of Charlestown, thought we were both having the precedence.
p?ot ready 10 act on this proposition. How could The PRESIDENT said he did not see the Chair.
we determine in what manner the amendments man of the Committee on the Judiciary fir. Sto-
should be submitted, before it was deterinined what |ry) in his place, otherwise it mig
the amendinents were. He thought
be proper to
move to take up the report of that Comiittee.
inpracticable to submit them in this modë, it half Mr VARNÚM, of Diacut, said he should wish,
the amendments which had heen proposed were a- if gentlemen could not stay here, that the Conven:
dopted. The house had been taken by surprise- tion should adjourn in order that other 'gentlemen
the printed report had not been in the hands of might go hiome and visit their families.
nembers.
(A few minutes afterwards Mr. Story came into
Mr. SALTONSTAĻL said that the enbarrass the house.]
ment this morning, did not arise from the Ou motion of Mr. PRESCOTT, the Convention
différence of opinion between two gentlemen, as went into Committee of the whole on the report
had been incinatid in the course of the debate, but of the select Committee on that part of the Con-
from the intrinsic difficulties in the report. There stitution which relates to the Senate and House of
could be no dificulty, on the part of the people, act. Representatives, Mr. Varnun in the Chair.
ing upon the anendnents submitted, in the man- The report was read, and the first resolution ta-
het mois proposed. If they cannot understand the ken into consideration viz,
any other
/
1
114
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
some,
1
1
Resolued, That it is proper and expedient w of taxation, by an unjust valuation, it would be re-
- 90 far to alter and amend the Constitution, strained in some degree by the considerațion that
as to provide, that there shall be annually e-
it would suffer a proportionate diminution of powa
i lected, by the freeholders, and other inhab-
er. It was thought too, that no alteration should
be made where no inconvenience had been felt.
itants of the Commonwealth, thirty six per- We had lived forty years under the Constitution,
suns to be Senators for the the year ensuing and it was not known that any inconvenience had
their election."
been experienced from this principle. On the oth-
Mr. PRESCOTT said that though the first res-
er hand it was recollected that positive advantages
glution only was under consideration, it might not
had been derived from the particular organization
be improper to state generally the views of the se-
of this branch of the Legislature. It would be.
Ject committee on the whole subject. This part of
recollected, that the Constitution contained a pro-
the constitution was referred to a numerous com-
vision, that there should not be more than six Sen-
mittee from different parts of the commonwealth
ators from any one district, and that there should
who had had it under consideration for a long time, I might be thought to trench upon the principle
nut he less than ten districts. This limitation
and if the result was not such as all would api
prove, it was not because there had been any want
which was adopted as the basis. Some districts
of attention in the committee. They felt the im.
would be now entitled to seven Senators and per-
portance of the subject and entered upon it fully | hąps to more, but in the smaller districts
impressed with its difficulties. The subject first
there would be large fractions for which
faken into consideration was the - Senate. They
there should be
compensation.
had agreed to fix the number of members at thirty-
It seemed proper also to provide that no one disa
six. This was not quite so large a number as was
trict should be so large as to have a very great pro-
fixed by the present constitution--bụt from the portion of power, whatever might be its amount of
forty, nișe counsellors were to be selected, of property. The propositions must be considered as
wbom it might be expected some would decline, connected together, and forming a system. Some.
ghough not all, as has been the practice of late
of them might be approved when considered as a
years. The committee thought thirty-six was a
part of the system, which would not, if taken alone.
sufficient'number to do the business. It was rath-
It will be found that the large tawns, which are .
er small compared with the dumber of the House | benefitted by the representation of property, in the
of Representatives, but was larger than formerly, Senate, are reduced in tlie number of their repre
.
when, if the counsellors accepted their appoint- sentatives. This was an additional reason for re-
ment, they were reduced to thirty-ane. Some taining the old principle in regard to the Senate.
members of the committee preferred that the
It was thought that the representatives being reduc-
number should be larger, that it might be a more
ed, they should be paid out of the public treasury,
complete balance to so large a number in the oth- This would weigh heavily on the large towns. Bos.
er branch. The next question was, on what basis | ton, for instance, which would have but fourteen or
it should be apportioned. Should it be on proper- fifteen, would pay for forty oro fifty. This was
ty, as at present--or on population ? There was deemed some compensation to the small towns,
much difference of opipion. Some were in favor
which would be thus enabled'to be represented dur-
of forming as many disiricts, of equal population, ing the whole session. He proceeded to remark
as there should be Senators, and that the same
on that part of the report which relates to the
should be districts for the choice of Repre- House of Representatives. There was but one o-
sentatives. But a large majority of the committee ||pinion in the committee on the expediency of reduce
were opposed to this scheme, as not affording that ing the number of members, hut on whát was the
check of one branch upon another which might be most beneficial mode, there were various opinions.
expected, where the districts for the two were diſ- The present number was more than five hundred,
terently constituted. Others were in favor of dis- and there was nothing to prevent the augmentation
tricts similar to those which now exist, and of ap-
of the number by the increase of population;and the
portioning the Senators among them according io
division of towns. It was considered that a House,
population. A large majority were also opposed of five hundred was much too large a body to be a.
to this plan. They considered that the design of ble to legislate to advantage.--they could not com-
government was the protection of property as well pare and communicate opinions, so as to act with
as of personal rights--that there should be a rep-
the united wisdom of the whole--they felt little res-
resentation of property
, as well as of persons. |ponsibility, and when the members were constantly
This must be done, cither by giving the power of changing, as was commonly the case, they could
voting only to persons possessed of property, a
feel hardly any. Those who begin business, leave.
practice which höd not prevailed in this common-
before it is finished. The whole quorum might be.
wealth, or by giving a greater representation to
changed four or five times in the same session. Bu-
the parts of the state where there was the greatest
siness therefore was not done with the same care
accumulation of property. The last mode was pre- and attention, that it would be where the sanje.
ferred. In this manner, a security is provided for
members continued through the session, and kept
rights of both descriptions; of rights of the per-
their eye on the business from the beginning to
son in the most numerous brapch, and of property the end. Great opportunity was afforded for.car-
in the other. But a more important view of the rying particular projects. It was only necessary to
gubject was, that the Senate, constituted in this seek a favourable nioment for bringing forward a
manner, formed a more effectual check upon the
favorite measyre, and it might be carried in oppo.
House of Representatives. If there were two
sition to the sense of a great majority of the whole.
bodies elected by the same persons, in the same
house. The number was more than double the.
districts, and in the same proportions, although
most numerous legislative body in any of the states.
they sat in different chambers, they would not act
But there was no mode of reducing it which was
in an equal degree as a check upon each other not attended with great difficulty. There were
Another argument in favor of this mode was de-
various opinions with respect to the most exo,
l'ived from the principle that representation should
pedicnt mode: Several were 'proposed, and
he is some degree proportioned to taxation. Tax-
discussed in the committee, One was, that the
es are assessed upon the different parts of the
state sbould be divided into as many equal districts,
Commonwealth in proportion to the valuation.
as there were senators; and that each district
of their property, and if one portion of the
should choose a certain number of representatives.
Commonwealth should wish to avoid its due sbare This was not agreeable to the views of a majority
U
MASSÁCHUSETTS CONVENTION:
116
I
of the committee. Another mode was, to form to the large towns but 10 representative and the
convenient districts of from 6 to 15,000 inhabitants, population of the 253, which will now, on the prin:
preserving town and county lines, and to give each ciple assumed, have 180 representatives, would, if
district'a number of representatives, proportioned the whole were in one town, be entitled to but 121:
to its population. But the majority of the commit- The small towns therefore of under 1200 inhabi.
tee, considering the attachment of the towns to tants; as well as those between 1200 and 2400;will;
their corporate privileges, determined to adhere to on an averagë, have a representative for about two
the old usage, of choosing by towns. But there thirds of the population which will be the average
were 293 towns now entitled to elect a representa- number required to give one in the large town-50
tive; and if each town were allowed still to choose that instead of losing day share of their influence
one, and the large towns were deprived of their by the proposed mode of representation, they gair
right to a proportionate weight in the representa-
one third. Whön any of the small towns which
tion, there would be still a very large house. It are now to he classed, shall rise above 1200 inhabiš
was evident; therefore, if any reasonable and valu- tants, they are to have the privilege of a per:
able change was to be made, the limit of popula- manent representative, but this privilege is not to
tion to entitle a town to be permanently represent- be given to a new town; which is formed by a vol-
ed, must be increased. It was thought more con-
untary division of a town now existing, until i
venient to assume the actual population, as taken
shall rise to 2400 inhabitants. This scheme would
by the census once iw ten years, as the basis of
reduce the House of Representatives to about one
ap-
portionment, than to place it upon the number of half the present number. The committee were
polls as heretofore. It was agreed that whatever induced to agree that the members should be paid
number was assumed to entitle.a town to one mem- out of the treasury of the Commonwealth. They
ber, double that number should be required, as the
were aware of the inequality of this mode of com-
štanding ratio, to authorize each additional mem- pensation, but they considered that the expenser
ber. On this principle the parts of the state divid-
would be reduced; that the business would be transa
ed into small wns, would be fully compensated,
acted better,--that there they are paid by the
for the unrepresented portions which are likely to towns, the expense to the small towns is heavy,
occur in every town; and every county would have and they attend so short a period of time as hardly
hearly an exact proportion of representatives comi-
to be of advantage to the towns or to the common
pared with their population. But after making this wealth. They thought therefore that it would be
full allowance; it was thought there was no reason
for the public benefit that they should be paid from.
for adopting any other ratio for the additional the public treasury, as there was no other mode of
members. There was some difference of opinion || inducing them to remain through the session. This
respecting the inost suitable number to which the 'l however was on condition that the number should
house should be reduced. Some of the committee
be reduced in the manner proposedz and with some;
thought it should be as low as froin 120 to 150;
that the Senate should continue to be apportioned
others 200 to 250. A majority of the committee as it now is. It was proposed that thë quorum in
thought it would be best to assume a basis that
both houses should be altered, lo correspond with
would give from 260 tº 300 members. Various the change in their organization: As there would
numbers were proposed as the limit of populatiou,
be no excuse for non-attendance in the House of
that should entitle a town to a representative ; but | Representatives, there could be no objection to in-
1200 was finally agreed on, it being computed that creasing thé quorum fram sixiy to an hundred. He
this number would give, as the population now is,
stated as an additional reason for classing the small
ä representation of about 260 inembers. It was towns instead of forming them into districts, that
computed that there were 147 or 148 towns now
some new tribunal would be tiècessary, different
entitled to a representative, whose population was from any now organized to which the votes should
below 1200. What provision should be made for
be returned for examination.
these towns? No one thought that they should be
Mr. DEARBORN thought gentlemen had not
deprived of the same proportion of representation expected that this report would be taken up at this
as they now have. Various modes were proposed.
tine and that they were not prepared to as t upon
It was found that their average population was
it. He therefore hoped it might be assigneil io a
about 800. One proposition was to put two towns
future day, and moved that the Committee should
together, and to allow them to choose jointly,
rise and report progress.
either at large, or from each alternately. There The questiou was taken on the motion and decid-
pvere objections to this there would be jealousies; 1 ed in the negative--117 to 195.
the larger town would control the smaller. It was
Mr. PICKMAN rose not to enter into a discuis.
thought that it would be more acceptable; to divide sion of the resolution, but to express a wish that
them
into two classes, putting the larger into one no question might be takeu to day on the resolus
class and the smaller into the other, and to give
tion in the thin state of the House. In thé inean
each a right to choose alternately, If there was
time it might be debated and the views of the gen:
an odd number in any county, one should choose
tlemen upon it might be ascertained; but it would
every other year. In this manner every small be improper to come to a decision on so important
town would have its due proportion of representa- a subject, without previous noticc, and when so
tion, and taking them together they would have a many members were absent.
considerable advantage. The average number of Mr PARKER thought there would be no objec-
representatives in all
the large towns, is only one tion to proceeding in the discussion, as it was not
for every 2400 inhabitants. But all the towns un-
probable that the Committee would be ready to
der 1200,1s well as those between 1200 and 2400, take the question on the resolution in the course
have a considerable advantage.
The 148 towns
of the day.
tvhich have under 1200 inhabitants, will be entitled Nir. KĖYES, of Concord, mored to an end the
permanently to 74, representatives, which is an av- resolution by inserting after. Coinmonwealtlı” the
erage of one for every 1632 inhabitants. If their words “of twenty one years ofmge,paupers excepto
population was all in one town it would give but ed,” and by striking out “thirty six" and inserting
51 members. There are 106 of a population be- 6 thirty one". His object, he said, was to take a
tween 1200 and 2400, which will be entitled to one way the qualification, now required, that the elect-
representative each, making an average of ouc rep- ors of Senators should be possessed of two hun-
representative for every 1646 inhabitants. The
dred dollars He thought that provision was pregn
population of these 106 towns, if together in one nant with much evil; that it had often been thie
lown, would give them on the principle applicable cause of moral perjury. As coile number of Sen
1
1
1
116
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
.
1
i
1
50..
150..
alors, it was believed that thirty-six were more to do with the subject of the resolution, and was
than were necessary, that thirty one was the orig- out of order; the other part, respecting the rium-
inal number expected to be in the Senate, as it was ber of Senators, was in order.
not supposed; that those selected for Counsellors Mr:KEYES then offered as a substitute for the
would decline the office; and that since Maine was resolution before the committee, two resolutions
separated; hirty-one would be enough.
embracing the two parts of his amendment; having
Mr. FREEMAN; of Boston, rose to speak only first withdrawn his amendment, i
to that partof the motion which proposed to change Mr. MORTON said the resolution respecting
the number of senators from 36 to 31. He was in
the qualification, ought to be first offered in con
favor of retaining 36, on account of the peculiar vention and there referred to a committee of the
properties of that number. It was susceptible of å whole.
more perfect division than almost any other num- The CHAIRMAN said that as it related to a
ber. It was divisible hy. 2, 3; 4; 6, &c. It was new subject, not touched in the report of the stand-
equal to the sum of an arithmetical series of num- ing committee; it was out of order, and that the
bers, 1, 2, 3, &c. to 8. He stated other peculiar other resolution was in order.
properties of this number. But 31 was à prime Mr.KEYES varied his proposition, and moved
number--divisible by. nothing. The peculiar advani to strike out i6 six” and insertioné," so as to
tages of the nuinber proposed would be apparent in have the number of Senators thirty-one.
the facility, of apportioning the senators among Mr. CHILDS thought that the principle of ap-
the several districts, according to property; if portionment should be first settled. If that were
that was assumed as the whole number of the settled upon the basis of property, according
Senate. The number of Senators assigned to the to the views of the select coinmittee, he should
several districts in proportion to their respectivë be ready to proceed in settling the nuinber or Sen-
amounts of tax, would be according to the follow- ators. He thought the present representation did
ing statement apportioned on 1000 dollars. not give a fair representation of property: The
Lowest Sum. Mean Šum. No.of Senators: principle of representation was an iir.jortant ques-
25..
..37,50.
. for..1
tion, and it ought to be first setiled." The house
62,50..
.2
had not expected to meet It 'to-day, and were not
75.
..87,50:
3
prepared forit. He therefore moved that the com-
100.
.112;50..
mittee rise.
125...
:137,50..
•5
The motion ivaš negatived:
1.162,50..
.6
Mr. FOSTER; of Littleton, said he was not
175..
.....187,50:
1
prepared to act on this subjcét, as it was not yet
200..
.212,50..
8
determined in what manner the counsellors were
He added, that 36 ivas the number originally in- to be chosën. They would probably be elected
tehded to represent Massachusetts, the other 4 be- by a general ticket from the people at large, or by
ing intended to represent the District of Maine. the Legislature out of the Senate. In the latter
Mr SAVAGE, of Boston, wished that there casë thirty-one would be 100 sniall ä number for
might be a division of the question; or he hoped the Senate.
the gentleman from Concord would see the advant-
Mi. QUINCY rose on a point of order. It was
age of acting upon each part of his amendment by
a very natural difficulty with the gentlenian from
itself, and would withdraw his motion for the pui- Pittsfield how to bring forward his proposition.
pose of introducing two separate propositions, one
But if gentlemen would analyse a little, all diſli-
relating to the number of the Senators, the other
culty would be removed. A single subject was
to the qualification of the electors.
now before the committee. All that a gentleman
Mr. KEYES, said he had no objection.
fras to do, is to offer a resolution in convention
The Chairman said it was well enough at pres- and have it referred to such cominittce of the
ent, as the question was capable of division, both
whole as he pleases, and then wlien the house is iii
parts making sense. The Cliairinan then 'stated
that committee, lie can move to consider first his
the question to be on the first part respecting the
proposition. This is the parliamentary and most
qualification of electors.
expeditious course. It was very true; as tlie gen-
Mr BEACH, of Gloucester, moved to insert in
tleman from Littleton had observed, that there
the amendment after paupers' the words “and was a connection betwçen the present subject and
those under guardianship.
that of the council, and the gentleman might move
Mr. BOND, of Boston, inquired of the Chair-
in convention to have the subject of the council
man, whether the question was divisible, being to referred to this committee.
strike out and insert.
Mr. PRESCOTT said the object of the commit-
Mr. FLINT; moved to pass over tlie first resolu-
tion and take up the next. He thought the pre-
tee was to present in the first resolution the single
question of the number of Senators. They had not
priety of adopting this depended upon the decision
which should be made upon the other proposition.
touched the subject of the qualification of voters.
Mr. BOND thought that the difficulty which
If the gentleman wished to raise that question, he
presented itself in this resolution would occur a-
thought it would he better for himn to present it in an
independent resolution, and not in the foron of an
gain in the next, or at least in the third, and that
Huendment of this, which does not involve the sub- nothing would be gained by passing to the consid-
eration of the others. It appeared to be necessary
ject.
The CHAIRMAN, in reply to the suggestion | Pittsfield, what should be the principle of appor-
that the question mentioned by the gentleman from
that the resolution was uot divisible, said that the
first clause of the amendoient which related to the
tionment; should be settled, before the committee
qualification of voters, should be put so as not to
could proceed profitably, in the discussion of the re-
include the striking out. The amendment would in
maining propositions. To come to this question it
that way be susceptible of division.
would be necessary that the committee should rise;
Mr. MORTON, of Dorchester, was apprchen-
that a proposition might be made and brought be-
fore the house. He therefore moved that the coin-
sive that the comunittee would again fall into the
mittee rise.
einbarrassment they had so often experienced,
from having too many propositions blended to-
Mr. AUSTIN, of Boston; inquired, whether the
gecer. The resolution itself was a simple propo-
motion'was in order, as the Committee had made
sitiou ; the amendipent contained two
no progress since the last motion to rise.
The CHAIRMAN replied that it was,
relating to the qualification of clectors, had nothing
The part
1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
$
1
1
} 3
2
The motion to rise was then put and decided in but not understanding the question, when it was
the affirmative.192 to 62.
put, had voted the wrong way.
í The Committee reported progress, and asked Mr. LELAND inquired if the resolution had had
eave to set again ; which was granted.
two readings.
Mr. BLAKE, of Boston, moved that a Commit- The PRESIDENT said it was not pecessary, as
tee be appointed to review the journal, and report it did not propose any alteration of the Constitution.
what order should be pursued in taking up busi- Mr. BOND wished the gentleman, who made the
Pess.
motion, would give some reasons for reconsider-
Mr. LELAND, of Roxbury, opposed the mo: ing.
tion; be could see no advantage to be derived The PRESIDENT repeated what the gentle-
from it.
man had stated on making the motion.
Mr. BLAKE, said he could only say, that such Mr. CHILDS said he was not much dissatisfied
à Committee had sonietimes been appointed in with the resolution, and did not know that he sbould
Congress, and had been found useful; an ounce of not like it, when he knew what amendments were to
experience was better than a' ton of speculation. be proposed to the people. It depended on this
Mr. MATOON, of Amherst, opposed the mo- circumstance; and if the vote should be recopsid-
tion, and inquired whether the report of the. ed, he should only want the question on the resolu-
Committee on the Declaration of Rights was the or- tion to be postponed.
der of the day for Mouday, If so, he should move Mr. MORTON opposed the reconsideration
to acijourn. They had done nothing yet.
He said, if this resolution had been adopted in the
The PRESIDENT said the unfinished business beginning, it would have saved the Commonwealth
òf this day, would be the order of the day for ten thousand dollars. He said it would not pre-
Monday, and would probably take up one or two clude any amendments to the Constitution.
days. Next in order would be the report on the Ju- Mr. FAY; of Cambridge was as much in favor
diciary, and then the report on the Declaration of of taking a decisive step on this subject, as the gen-
Rights.
tleman 'last úp ; but he was not satisfied, tliat the
Mr.QUINCY said the rules of the Convention re- mode proposed in the resolution, for submitting the
quired that the unfinished business of one day should amendments was the best. There was another
be the order of the day for the next. That the mode, which he thought preferable. The intention
subject, which they had been discussing in Com- of the committee was to give the people a fair
mittee, was the most important of any, on which chance to let them adopt such amendments as
they should be called to act, and he hoped it would they approved, and reject such as they disliked.
come on again on Monday. But if gentlemen He thought the people would be better satisfied
should not wish to take it up on that day, the course with a new draft. They would not want to discuss
would be to move that it lie on the table. Gentle- every amendment--they sent us here to do their
men had said we had done nothing to day. He work; and for himself, as one of the people, be
thought they had done a great deal. They had got should prefer taking his chance, in voting upon all
into the heart of the subject of most inportance ; the-constitution together, in the same manner asthe
and particularly, was it doing a great deal,'to have Constitution of 1780 was adopted.
heard the able elucidation, which was made by the Mr. BLISS sạid the gentleman was in an error;
Chairman of the Conmittee on that subject. the separate parts were acted upon by the people,
Mr. BLAKE withdrew his motion.
and there were an hundred exceptions by different
Mr. WEBSTER said there was an inconven- towns, to different parts. He had examined the re-
ience which arose from the numbers, in the resolu- cords in the Secretary's office.
tion's reported by the select.committee being filled, Mr. FAY said it might be so; he had inferred
instead of being reported in blank. In the resolu- that the whole of it was taken up together by the
tion which had been before the committee of the people, from its having the appearance of being
whole this morning, the question could not be ta- one work. He said, the people were not so capa-
ken on the number thirty-six-it could only be ta- ble, in their town meetings, of forming à constitu-
ken on accepting the resolutions, and when ac- tion, as the Convention, or of seeing the connection
cepted it could not be amended. If thirty-six were of the different parts ; and if they should adopt
struck out for the purpose of inserting another some, and reject others, the intention of the Con-
number, it could not be again inserted. This had vention might be frustrated. - He observed, that of
presented an obstacle this morning. But the ob- the amendments appended to the Constitution of
ject of the gentleman from Pittsfield might have the United States, some were accepted and others
biceis effected by inoving to amend the resolution not. This mode of submitting them tended to pro-
by adding the words 6 10 be chosen in districts, duce confusion, and it would require a lawyer to
in proportion to their respective population. tell what was, and what was not, a part of the Con-
Mr. QUINCY professing great deference to the stitution. The Convention was not a court of er-
gentleman's talents and high respect for his opin-
, ,
ions generally on questions of order, was obliged | miss in consequence of the people voting
in this case to differ from him. He said the coin- mendments separately ; ihe whole must be
mittee ouglit to confine themselves to the business done now. There was no necessity for the people
specifically committed to them--that new subjects adopting them in detail; they would thus lose the
ought irot to be introduced in committee, but benefit of the wisdom of the Convention. It
sliould be proposed in convention and there refer- would have been as wëll to have saved the
red to the committee.
pense of a Convention, and have, said that all the
Mr. MORTON said he had moved for the com- propositions for amendments, which have appear.
mittee to rise, in order that gentlemen might make ed in the Boston newspapers for the last six months
their motions in convention, and bave them refer- should be submitted to the people; and those which
red.
a majority should adopt, should make a part of the
Mr. ENOCH MUDGE, of Lynn, moved for a Constitution. He thought these reasojis overbal-
reconsideration of the yote passed yesterday,adopt- lanced the reasons on the side of the report. He
ing the fourth resolution reported by the Commit-added, that the mode of numbering the amend-
tee on the mode of submitting amendments of the ments would he likely to cause nistakes. He wish-
Constitution to the people. He said hs was not ed the motion
for reconsideration miglit prevail
.
dissatisfied with it himself, but some others were, Mr. FOSTER thought it unfair to move for a re-
ancione gentleman had intended to vote with the ma- consideration on Saturday, when the numbers were
jority, for the purpose of moving arecoosideration's so miuch thinged. It looked like an attempt to
16
.
1
the a
ex-
1
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}
真 ​118
MASSACHUSETTSأيم
A
1
*CONVENTION.
Smuggle a proposition through the house. He should Mr. LELAND moved that the resolutioits be
therefore repeat the motion for an adjournment. referred to the Committee of the whole upon
Mr. VARNUM wished the 'gentleman to with- the Senate, &c. Negatived.
draw his motion, in order that lie might move to They were then referred to the Committee of.
postpone the subject of reconsideration until Tues- the whole npon the resolutions offered on a former
day..
day by Mr DEARBORN, relating to the Lieut.
Mr. FOSTER gave way.
Guvernor, &c.
The question was taken to postpone and decided Mr MORTON offered a resolution declaring
in the affirmative-209 to 53.
that the Constitution ouglit to be so amended as
Mr. KEYES offered the following resolution : to provide that there shall be annually chosen by
Resolved, That it is expedient so to amend the freeholders and other inhabitants of each sepa-
*the Corrstitution, as to provide that no pecu-
torial district one person residing in the district to
be returned as Counsellor,and that of the persons se
niary qualification shall be required for elec-
returned, of more than seven, the two Houses of
tors of any of the officers 'under this Govern-
the General Court by joint ballot shall elect seven
ment.
to serve as Counsellors. If there be not seven re-
Ordered to be referred to the committee of the turned, the deficiency to be supplied by joint ballot
whole on the Senate, &c.--220 to 18.
from the two persons in each district who have the
Mr: CHILDS gave notice, that on Monday he greatest number of votes. And if a vacancy shall
should introduce a resolution for apportioning the occur, it shall be supplied by joint ballot of the two
Senate on the basis of population.
houses from the people at large.
Mr. NICHOLS offered the following resolution, The resolution was referred to a committee of
Resolved, Thatit is expedient so to amend the whole.
the Constitution, as to provide that no pecu- ing that it is proper and expedient so to amend the
Mr. S. A. WELLS offered a resolution purport-
niary qualification shall be required, to ena-
Constitution that any person returned as Counsel-
ble persons to hold the offices of Senator or lor and Senator shall be bolden to serve as counsel-
Representative.
lor, if chosen to that office by the two houses of
Ordered to be referred to the committee of the the Legislature in the manner prescribed in the
whole on the Senate &c.-148 to 90.
constitution. He stated that his object in moving
Mr. WELLS, of Boston, offered as an amend- this resolution was to restore the spirit of the old
iment to the report of the Select Committee on the constitution. He considered ita defect in the con
Senate, &c. a resolution proposing that Counsel- stitution, that the personis elected froin the Senate
tors and Senators shall be chosen as,they now are, were permitted to decline the appointment to the
and that the persons designated to serve as Coun- Council and to continue to bold their seats in the
tellors shall be holden to serve as such, unless
Senate.
they shall give a sufficient l'eason for declining, in A motion to commit this resolution to a commit-
which case the Legislature shall proceed to supply tee of the whole on the Senate was negatived.
the vacancies occassioned by their resignation. It was then referred tthe committee of the whole
Mr WEBSTER said this amendnient could not on Mr. Dearborn's resolution.
be received, as that report was before the commit- Mr. LELAND,of Roxbury,moved that the report
tee of the whole.
the select committee on the subject of the Coun-
Mr. WELLS said, if he was not in order, he cil, agreed to in committee of the whole, should
would withdraw the motion, for the purpose of re- be recommitted to the Committee of the whole,
newing it at a proper time.
en Mr. Dearborn's resolutions. Agreed to.
It was then moved, that when the house adjourn- SENATE AND HOUSE OF REPRESEN-
ed, it should adjourn to Monday at 11 o'clock.
IATIVES.
negatived-82 to 199.
The Convention then went into committee of the
It was then voted to adjourn to Monday at 10 o' whole on the unfinished business of Saturday, Mr.
clock.
Webster in the chair.
The house adjourned. -
The first resolution, purporting that it is expe-
dient so to alter the Constitution that the Senate
shall consist of thirty-six persons, was stated to be
under consideration.
MONDAY, DEC. 11.
Mr. DANA bad no desire to see the Senate re-
The House met at 10 o'clock. The journal of
duced from forty, the present number. He com-
Saturday was read.
sidered the principle of a balance between the tw@
Mr. WEBSTER, of Boston, moved that the re- houses, an important one, and it was a principle
port of the select Committee on the Declaration of
that had been sanctioned with great unanimity by
Rights be reconmitted to the sanie Committee, the Convention The present number he thought
with instructions to present the matter of the sev-
was not larger than would be necessary to
eral resolutions recommended by them in a new
secure a proper balance against so
form; so as to state the substance and effect of the House of Representatives.. He should,
several alterations to the Constitution therein pro..
therefore, prefer retaining that number: But
posed.
he presumed the committee had fully consid-
The above motion was adopted, the Committtee
ered the subject and he would not propose any a-
of the whole, to which that report had been refer-
merelment of the resolution,' He should, however
i red, having been first discharged from the consid-
be decidedly opposed to any further reduction.
eration of the same.
Mr. BLAKE, of Boston, said a mistake had too.
Mr. LELAND,of Roxbury, offered three resolu-
long prevajled in relation to the Senate. It never
tions, in substance as follows, viz. : That it is ex-
was contemplated by the framers of the constitution,
pedient sc to alter the Constitution, as to provide,
to have more than thirty-one Senators. But by an
1st. That persons be elected by the inhabit- abuse,(he did not mean moral turpitude) the Senale
ants of this Commonwealth qualified to vote, to be
had been enlarged, and the mode of choosing Couir-
Counsellors and Senators. 2d. That the electors
sellors altered That thirty-one was the number
shall designate-of the number to be Counsellors. originally intended for the Senate, was evident froin
3d. That the persons so designated, shall serve as
the quorum heing fixed at sixteen. He said, that
Counsellors, (ceasing to be Senators) and the rest
in no assembly of the kinc!, consisting of about the
shall constitute the Senate.
same number, in any of the United Sixtes, was the
numerous
a
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
.
3
1
+
,
He pre-
+
(
quorum fixed at less than a majority of the whole for apportioning the Senate aecording to population.
Dumber. He was lowever entirely satisfied with Mr. LAWRENCE was for passing over the res-
the number, thirty-six, to which it was proposed to olution. One reason for proposing the limi.
enlarge the Senate, as being a convenient number, tation in the resolution was founded on the
and capable of a great many divisions; as had been restriction provided in another resolution, that
mentioned before,. by his Rev. colleague, (Mr. no district should have more than-six Senators.--
Freeman.)
This restriction ought to take place whether the
Mr. SLOCUM, of Dartmouth, said he had been Senators.were apportioned on population or on
waiting with patience, expecting to be enlighten- property.
ed by the discussion, but the more he lieard from The motion was negatived.
the gentlemen who used to subscribe to his opinions, Mr. SIBLEY; of Sutton, opposed the resolution.
the inore he was embarrassed, and he was com- Some of the smaller counties might hereafter. be
pelled to differ from the high gentlemen with disposed to unite, and it might likewise be desira-
whom he used to-side. He thought the number ble to divide some of the larger counties. : The
thirty-six, larger than was necessary for the Senate. county from which he cane, (Worcester) he
The Senate of the U. S. consisted originally of but thought, would like to be divided. It would there-
thirty-six, that of New-Hampshire consists of fore be inconvenient to limit the number of dis.
twelve, and that of Rhode Island of ten
tricts to ten.
suned these numbers were adequate for the object The question was then taken on the third reso.
designed. Gentlemen seeined to think that we tion and decided in the affirmative-193 to 132.
wanted as many now, as we did before the separa- The fourth rosolution was passed over, on the
tion of Maine. It had been saich that the expense suggestion of Mr. Varnun, in order to give an op-
of having thirty-six was but little; but these littles | portunity to Mr. Childs, (who was prevented by
made a considerable sum for their constituents to illness from attending) to make the motion of which,
pay. The gentleman from Groton wanted a larger || he gave notice on Saturday.
number than thirty-31x, in order to balance the The 5th, 6th, and 7th resolutions were adopted.
great number in the House of Representatives; but without a division.
the majority of the Senate would always be a check, The 8th being the first of those relating to the.
whether the whole number were large or small. Representatives having been ready
He thought thirty-six was a supernumerary, num- Mr. LONGLEY, of Bolton, offered a proposi...
ber--they were sent there to make a constitution iion as a substitute for the resolutions from the
congenial to the genius of the people they must 8tly to the 14th inclusive, that 250. rateable polls
consult economy. He should vote for thirty-one. 1) should entitle a town to one Representative, 625 to
Mr. LELAND could see no objection to the two, and so on, making 375 ratable polls.themean
muinber, provided the Senators were to be chosen | increasing ratio--that all the towns now incorpo-
distinct from the Counsellors. But if the Council rated, although having less than 250. ratable polls,
were to be elected from the
elected from the persons returned as should nevertheless have one Representative each,
Senators, he thought the number was too small.--- but any town hereafter incorporated should have
He was in favor of choosing the Council and Sen- 150 rateable polls to entitle it to one Representa-
ate together, and for that reason opposed to the tive that towns having less than 250 rateable
number stated in the resolution. But with a view polls should be exempt from a fine, unless they
that the question respecting the mode. of choosing neglected for more than two years in succession to
the Council might be first settled, he moved that send a Representative—and that the Representa-.
the committee should pass to the second resolution. tives should be paid by the towns, unless otherwise
Mr. PRESCOTT said that if the committee provided by law. Mr. L. obseryed that the phrase-
were to pass from one resolution to another at the eology of his resolution, except in the numbersy was..
call of any member; nothing would ever be settled. copied from the present Constitution. He thought
The report tras predicated; upon the supposition the ratio in the report was too high ; between 20
that the Senate and Council should be chosen, in- and 30 towns in the county of Worcester would be
dependently of each other. If this resolution should deprived of a representation, except every other
now be adopted, and'it should he afterwards deter- year-taking the census of 1810 for the guide. The
mined to choose the Council from the Senate, the number in the House would be kept down, by re-
decision now made might be reconsidered and the moving the fine from the smalltawns; which would
number increased.
probably not send a representativc oftener than
The motion to pass over the first resolution was every other year. He could see no other way of,
ncgatived.
saving the rights of the small towns.
The question on acceptance of the resolution, Mr. FREEMAN, of Boston, rose to present:.
was decided in the affirmative, 195 to 113.
some arithmetical calculations to show the prin ..
The second resolution was then read and agreed ciples on which the committee proceeded. In the
te.
principle assumed there were two or three impor:
The third resolution having been read,
ant alterations of the principle of the present Cone
Mr. DANA wished to hear from the chairman of stitution. The report proposed a new ratio of
the committee an exposition of their reasons for Representation by which the number was reduced,
proposing it.
and that no town shall have more than one rep-
Mr. PRESCOTT said that the resolutiou had resentative unless upon a population equal to the
been agreed to almost unanimously,' by the select mean ratio, The ratio by the present Constitution,
coinmittee. It did not forbid the division of coun- was formed by taking 150, the number which gives
ties into new counties, but merely the division of one Representative, and adding to it one half-
them in forming senatorial districts. It was thought The ratio proposed is obtained by taking the num.
important that it should not be left in the power of ber which gives one Representative and doubling
the Legislature to make a division for a temporary it. To show that the last mode was just and the
puu pose. They saw no inconvenience in the re- other not, he supposed three cascs. 1st. That 150
striction, but on looking back they perceived that rateable polls elect one-<300.two-150 three &c.
great inconvenience had been ſelt from the power -making no allowance for the surplus pumbers.--
of division
Then the mean number for electing one in towns
Mr. DE ARBORN, moved that the third resolu- where only one is chosen will be 225, ana in towns
tion should be passed over, with a view that the where two are chosen 1871-zwhere three are cho-
gentleman from Pittsfield might have an opportunity sen 175 &c. 2d. The ratio of the present consti-
a bring forward his motion offered on Saturday, tution-150 rateable polls elect one Representa:
120
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
{
are
tiye--375 two-600 three, &c. The mean num- 2400. These have 106 representatives, but their
ber electing one Representative, where only one is whole population, if all in one town, or distributed
chosen is 150 added to half the increasing number, in several large towns would give but 70 represen-
viz : 2625. The mean number in towns electing tatives. The whole computacion goes on a prin-
two is 375 added to half the increasing number, ciple that diminishes the proportion of infinence of
making 487}, or 243 for each member. The mean the large towns, and gives a large increase to that
number in towns electing tree is 600 added to of the small towns. It is indispensable, unless we
half the increasing number making 712 or 237} would have a bouse of 400 members at least, either
for each member. The average number for elec- to class the small towns, or to district them.
ting each representative is therefore greatest in Mr. LAWRENCE said the amendinent propos-
ed that polls should be adopted as the basis of rep-
entitled Shes
resentation instead of population. He presumed
creases. 34. The just ratio which is that assum- this basis never would have been adopted, if there
ed in the report-150 rateable polls elect one Rep- had been at the time of the framing of the Consti-
resentative-450 two_750 three,. &c.--the en- tution any psovision for the periodical enumera-
creasing number being 300, and the mean surplus tion of the inhabitants. Polls did not before that
150. Then the mean number electing one, where time form the basis of representation. By the
only one is chosen is equal to 150 added to half the laws of 1692 and 1776, the number of Frecholders.
encreasing number, making 300. The mean num- was the basis. There was at the time of the foron-
ber clecting two will be equal to 450 added to half ation of the constitution no mode of ascertaining
the encreasing number making 600, or 300 for the number of inhabitants; but tliere was of ratea-
each. The mean number in towns electing three ble polls. It would be found that from particular
will be 750 added to halfthe encreasing number maka causes, the number of rateable polls was not pro-
ing 900, or 300 for each Representative-and portiqued to the number of inhabitants.
In the
whatever number
chosen from
any county of Suffolk, for instance, there were two
one town, the average number of rateable thousand more rateable polis than in Berkshire,
polls electing each will be the same.- though in the latter county the population was
These principles he illustrated in a variety of ways. grealest. The Legislature also may alter the
The last principle the select committee bad adopt- number of rateable polls, but cannot the nuinber of
ed, and, as it was mathematieally accurate, he pre- inhabitants. They may provide by law for taxing
sumed it would be adopted by the Convention. It all polls over 10 ypars of age, or that only those
was applicable to any assumed number. The com- over 21 or 50, should be taxed. The determining
mittee had assumed 1200 inhabitants. It was, the number of polls is left to the towns, and is lia-
however, deviated from in reference to the small ble to fraud.
towns, from necessity, and a different provision The question on the amendment was taken and
was made for them. He mentioned several decided in the negative,
schemes which had been offered in the committee Mr HOYT, of Deerfield proposed to amend the
for districting the state for the choice of represen- resolution by adding that in case the Legislature
tatives, which had been rejected by them. He should hereafter divide or set off a part of a town
stated further, that if the present number of rate- having 1200 inliabitants and upwards so as to re-
able polls for giving one represepitative were re- duce ilo less than 1200, it should notwithstanding
tained, and the correct increasing ratio applied, retain its right to send a representative, Mr. H.
it would reduce the House from 512 members to said that setting off a part, inight niaterially affect
414.
ancient towns who hold dear their privileges.-
Mr. MARTIN, of Marblehead said that he did Old towns were generally averse to a division, and
not like either proposition. He said that on ex- he was aware that the tendency of this resolution
amining the lasi census, for we were obliged to take
was to prevent a division. He was desirous how-
the last census for our motto, he had found that if ever of protecting the rights of ancient towns when-
200 inhabitants were required to give a Repre- ever a divion should take place.
sentative there would be 138 town which would be Mr. LOCKE, of Billerica, thought the object of
deprived of a representation. He believed that the amendment was perfectly secured by the re-,
this would be enough to set aside the whole doings port as it stood. If a town which now has 1200
of the Convention, if they were submitted to the inhabitants, should be divided by the Legislature,
people together. If he could have his own way a- it would still have a right to a representative. Tlie
bout it, he would give every town that is now en- 13th resolution would tend to prevent the cutting
titled to a Representative, one. And the Conven- up of towns into small portions, Towns have
tion might require five hundred or or a thousand or sometimes, heretofore, been divided in a manner
any other number of rateable polls to entitle any injurious to themselves, and which would not be
town to another, if they were a inind to.
glad to be reunited.
Mr: PRESCOTT said that the mode proposed Mr. STARKWEATHER was in favor of the a-
by the gentleman from Bolton,wouldgive a very nu- mendment, though he agreed with the gentlenian
merous house. Every town would have one and this from Billerica, that the right would not be taken
would give two hundred and ninety-eigit members. away by a division within the ten years. After ten
The additional number for the larger towns. would years, a town reduced by division below 1200,
make more than four hundred. If the proposition would not be protected in its right of having a per-
of the committee should be adopted, the sinall manent representative.
towns would have the least reason to complain.- Mr. DRAPER, of Spencer, thought the a-
They would have much the largest proportion of mendment ought to be adopted, and that the pro-
representation. The towns entitled to send a rep- vision should be extended to reductions from other
resentative every other year will have a representa-
100 equivalent on an average to obefinember every Mr. DANA thought the proposition of the gen-
year, for 1633 inhabitants. The whole population tleman from Deerfield was founded in sound sense.
of the towns of less than 1200 inhabitants, is about There was a disposition in most persons to pre-
121,000. These towns will be now represented serve large establishments, thoughi in relation to
every year by 74 members, but their population on towns and counties it was often found convenient
the principle applicable to large towns would give
to divideo
but 51 members. There are 18 towns which have if not amended, would increase the obstacles to
over 3600 inhabitants each, 118,000 in all. These divisions in cases where they would be convenieni.
18 towns will bave but 55 representatives. There The amendinent would make the resolution more
are 106 towns of a popwation between 1200 and perfect,
.
causes.
}
1
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
121
I
s
:
Mr. HOYT said that one object which he had tions asked of this sort-what property have you?
in view was, that the principle should be defini- have you the tools of any trade? Yes. What else
tively settled, so that there should be no misunder- a pair of steers my father gave me And if this
standing
was not enough, then, he said, a note, which is
Mr. PRESCOTT said that the amendment never iotended to be paid, makes up the balance.
would have such an effect that if port of a town of Men in this Cominonwealth become freemen when
more than 1200 inhabitants, were taken off and an- they arrived at 21 years of age ; and why ohlige
Bexed to a town of less than that number, so as to them to buy their freedom? They perform militia,
raise it above 1200, both would acquire a right to duty-they pay a tax for all they possess, that is,
be permanently represented. If it could be divest- their polls. 'Nothing, he said, of so little conse
ed of this effect, there would be no objection to it. quence in itself, was so ardently desired, as an als
Mr. D. DAVIS said the object of the mover teration in this part of the Constitution. Men who
was to put it out of the power of the Legislature have no property are put in the situation of the
by the division of a town, to disfrancliise it of its slaves of Virginia ; they ought to be saved from
tight of representation. He opposed the amend- the degrading feelings.
ment because it was unnecessary. , IT the amend. Mr. BOND, of Boston, said the Rev. gentleman
ment proposed by the resolution was adopted, ev- was mistaken on one point. The resolution did
ery town of 1200 inhabitants would have a vested not confine the right of voting to those who paid a
right to a representative. And if the Legislaturel poll tax ; 'but paupers also were embraced by it..
sbould be so unwise as by dividing it to reduce it
Mr. FOSTER said he did not meau to allow
below 1200, it would not divest it of this right. them the privilege of voting.
Mr. SULLIVAN, of Boston, differed from his Mi. DUTTON, said he was in favor of reconsid-
colleague, who spoke last. He said, sappose that eration. He had voted against the resolution,
: a town, by taking off a part,.is recluced below 1200 which, it is now understood by those who support-
inhabitants, it then falls into the classed towns, and cd it, ought to be modified so as to exclude pau-
the town which is increased to 1000 inhabitants, pers. Altho the resolution as it passed was/with-
will gain a representative. The Constitution will out limitation, still lie was willing to consider it, as
not give a vested right to any toivo, but its right | modified in the manner suggested. It introduced
to representation will change, according to the a new principle into the Constitution. It was uni- v
change in the number of its inhabitants.
versal suffrage. There were two ways of consid-
Mr. STONE, of Stow and Boxborough, said ering 'it. Ist. As a matter of right. 2d. As a
there was a defect in the resolution, in as much as matter of expediency. As to the right, he inquir-
It made no provison for districts. There were on- ed wly paupers were excluded at all, if it was a
ly six towns which were now united for the choice common right) and if it was not, then there was
of representatives, and in these cases the larger the same right in the community to exclude every
towns control the smaller. He thought therefore, man, wlio was not worth two hundred dollars as
that these towns should be put upon the footing of there was to exclude paupers ; or persons under
other small towns and allowed to choose alternate- twenty-one years. In truth there was no question
ly. But as the resolution now stands, there is no of right; it was wholly a question of expediency.
provision whatever for districts. He moved He thought it expedient to retain the qualification
ed therefore to amend it lsy inserting the words "or in the Constitution. It was in the nature of a
districts" after the word "tows.
privilege, and as such, it was connected with ma-
The motion was agreed to.
ny virtues, which conduced to the good order of
The question was then taken on the 8th resolul society. It was a distinction to be sought for ; it "
tion, and decided in the affirmative--225 to 89. was the reward of good conduct. It encouraged
The 9th resolution was also agreed to.
industry, economy and prudence, it elevated the
The 10th resolation was amended, by inserting | standard of all our civil institutions and gave digni-
or districts” for conformity, and yras agreed 10.--
ty and importance lo those who chose, and thiøse
The 11th resolution was agreed to. The 12th a- who were chosen. It acted
a stiinulus
mended for conformity, was agreed to. The to exertion to acquire what it was distine.
13th was agreed to.
tion to possess.
He maintained that in this
The fourteenth resolution was anended by sub- country, where the means of subsistence were so
stituting 6 shall” for “ may" and agreed to. The abundant, and the demand for labor so great, **
: fifteenth, sixteenth and seventeenih, were also every man of sound body coulr acquire the neces-
agreed to.
sary qualification. Il be failed to do this, it must
The resolution offered by Mr. KEYES on Sat- be, ordinarily because he was indolent or vicious.
urday, and referred to this Committee, proposing In' many of the states a qualification of freehold
to abolish all pecuniary qualification in electors of was required. He thought that a wise provision
officers under this government, was taken up by and if any alteration was to be made, he should be
the Committee.
in favor of placing it there, rather than upon pei-
Mr. NICHOLS, of South Reading, moved that sonal property. As it was, he thought it valuable
the Committee should rise,
as a nioral means, as part of that moral force, so
Negatived
essential to the support of any free government...
Mr. PARKER, of Charlestown, möred to pass He would not diminish that, for in the same pro-
Over the resolution on account of the absence of portion it should be, liom any cause, diminished
the niover. Negatived.
would the foundations of the republic be weakened.
The question was then taken on the resolution, He also considered it as unreasonable, that a man
and decided in the affirmative--18510 157.
who had no property should act indirectly upon the
Mr. ALVORD, of Greenfield, moved a recon- property of others. If gentlemen would look to the
sideration of the last vote.
statute book, to the business of the legislature,or to
Mr. FOSTER, of Littleton, said he was not the courts of law, how much of all that was done;
present when the vote was taken, but he should would be found to relate to the rights of property.
lave voted in the affirmative. He would not It lay at the foundation of thic social state, it was
question the right to require such a qualification, the spring of ali action and all employment. It was
but he had been for several years convinced that it therefore, he apprehended wholly inequitable in its
was inexpedient and inischievous. 'Either a great- nature, that men without a dollar should, in any
er amount of property should be required, or none way, determine tne rigpits of property, or have any
Gicat difficulties were occasioned by this concern in its appropriation. He also contended,
requisition at every election, and continual ques- that the principle of the l'esolution was anti-repuls
1
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.
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
122
man
of our?
le
lican. "It greatly increased the number of voters, y, ity, by the poor asby the rich. A's to property; tlie
and those of a character most liable to be improp- case was differeut. But our constitution involves alb,
erly.infuenced or corrupted. It enlarged the field three, and the question is, how the power in relation
of action to every popular favorite, and enabled to them shall be parcelled out. Oarconstitution has.
him to combine greater numbers. The time might made the Senate the guardian of property. The
come, when he would be able to command, as tru- Senate is the rich man's citadel. There, and there
- ly as ever a general commanded an army, sufficient alone, the rich man should look for his security.--
Bumbers to affect or control the government itself. Every inan who pays his taxmand he did not know .
In that case, the form of a republican constitution why not paupers, as they were liable to military.
might remain, but its life and spirit would have duty, ought to possess the privilege of vot-
Hed. The government would be essentially a de- ing. To deprive a
of this privi-,
mocracy, and between that, and a despotism there lege tilf' he acquires property, was an encroach-
would be ' but one step. Sueh would be the ten- ment on the "fuodainental principles
dency of the principle, and so far as it operated, it | Constitution. The Constitutions of most of the
would change the structure of the constitution. other states give the right of voting to every man
· The qualification whieh is required, was intended who pays his taxes ;. not mentioning any thing, a-
as a security for property. He considered it as a bout paupers. He said the requisition of proper-.
birrier, which ought noi to be removed, and could ty was in this town, for a long time, à dead leiter ;.
not be, without danger to the state.
until the Legislatura, a few years since, made some
Mr. 'HOAR, Of Concord, said that the question wise provisions concerning elections
was only on l'econsiileration of the vote as it had On motion of Mr. VARNUM, the committee.
passed, and it was not correct to consider it as mod- voted to rise-257 to 29-m-reported progress, and
ified according to the suggestion of thc gentleman asked leave to sit again ; which was granted.
frons Littleton. He had dot believed it possible that Leave of absence was granted to Mr. Cooke, of
any considerate member would'vote in favour of the Edgartown, on account of the death of his father,
resolution. He had heard it reiterated from all parts and to Mr. Noyes, of Acton, on acconnt of sick
of the house that no fundamental principle of the ness in his family..
government was to be changed. This proposition did The house adjourned..
change a fundamental principle. It was not the
admission or the rejection of a few yotes in the
existing state of things. But it was a change which
might at some time or other produce a result wide-
TUESDAY, DEC. 12.
ly different from what gentlemen apprehended. It The house met at 9 o'clock, and attended pray-.
went directly io sap the foundations of society.
ers offered by the Rev. Mr. Jenks. After which
He asked if there were too many incentives to in-
the journal of yesterday was read..
dustry and economy at present ? and appealed to
Mr. DEARBORN, of Roxbury, offered the fola.
the Rev. geotleman from Littleton to say whether
in the spliere of his observation there had not been
lowing resolutions, viz. :
Resolved, That it is proper and expedient
many instantes of yonng men from 17 to 21 years
of age, stimulaied by this provision of the Consti-
so far to alter and amend the Constiution, as
tion to an exertion which by its effect on their char to provide that the Senate shall be appor-
acter and habits, was useful to them in after life. tioned among the several districts, into.
Apprentices, and the sons of
poor farmers
which the Commonwealth may from time
were induced to lead a life of industry and econo-
that when they arrived at the age provid-
to time he divided, according to the number
ed by law, they night be prepared to exer-
of inhabitants in each.
eise the righis of a free inan, This alone Resolved, That it shall be the duty of the
was sufficient to determine bis voie.
But there Legislature, at the first session, after the cen:
were other considerations. It was an anti-repub-
sus, which is now taking under the authority
lican principle. He proceeded to state in what
manner a rich man in a populous town might con- of the United States shall be completed, and
mand the votes of men without any property, and
at every subsequent period of ten years, to
eonsequently destitute of character, It now very cause the state to be divided into Districts for
seldom happened, that a man of industrious habits
the choice of Senators, which shall be so,
and regular life was excluded from the right of
voting. Even men of character who throngh mis formed of contiguous towns, as to contain, as
fortune are olsliged to call on towns for aid, often near as possible, an equal number of inhab,
have property enough to entitle them to vote. The itants in each, withoui dividing any town.
· Biouseholil furniture exempted by law fron attack- On motion of Mr. DEARBORN, the resolun
ment is nearly enough to give the right. Very ſew tions were referred to the Committee of the whole
but vagabonds are excluded.
on the Senate &c.
Mr. BLAKE was in favour of reconsideration, On potion of Mr. AUSTIN, of Boston, Ordered;
because he thought the subject had oot been fairly That the resolutions offered by Mr. Morton and
examined. He was not satisfied that the right of others, relating to the Council be printed for the
universal suffraye ought to be exercised, but many use of the member's--117 to 13.
weighiy reasops could be urged in favor of it, sone Mr. KEYES, of Concord, offered the following
of which he would state. He did not consider it Resolution, viz:--
as changing a fundamental principle of the consti- Resolved, "That is expedient and proper som
tulion, if he did, he should oppose it. He said that to amend the Constitution as to provide that.
the Constitutions of most of the States in the Union,
required no pecuniary qualification; those of South
paupers and persons. under guardianship,, .
Carolina and Virginia, which require a freehold,
shall not be entitled to yote for any officer;
were exceptions, and he did not mean to speak of under the government.
the states newiy admitted. The example of other On motion of Mr. PRESCOTT, of Boston, the
states, however, was not of much weight, as we house went into comiiitee of the whole, on the
ought to be an example to ourselves, Life was as Report of the select committee on the Senateg. &c.'
dear to a poor man as to a rich man; so was liber- Mr. Webster, of Boston, in the chair.
ty. Every subject therefore, involving only lile or Mr. QUINCY said that the proposition before
liberty, could be acted upon, with as good author- the conmittee had been considered by those in fa
my,
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
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t
ver, as well as those against ît, as one for universal demnifying himself. Whereas the rich, by the in-
suffrage. But that it was not such a proposition.-|| Auence resulting from his property over the class
Universal suffrage is suffrage without qualification. of paupers, has a power of indemnifying himself a
Suppose the proposition adopted-still you have not hundred fold. The theory of our constitution is,
universal suffrage. The qualification of age, and that extreme poverty--that is,pauperism-is incon-
of sex, remain. Women are excluded-Minors sistent with independence. It therefore assumes a
are excluded. The real nature of the proposition qualification of a very low amount, which, accor-
is the exclusion of pecuniary qualification. This ding to its theory, is the lowest consistent with in-
remark is materials because the only principle al- dependence. Undoubtedly it excludes some, of a
ledged in favor of the exclusion of pecuniary quali- different character of mind. But this number is
fication is just as strong in favor of the exclusion of very few; and from the small amonnt of property
every other qualification. Other gentlemen had al-required, is, in individual cases, suon compensated.
ledged reasons in favor of the proposition from con- Ảt the present day, the provision was probably
siderations of inconvenience and of expediency. worth very little. In the present results of our em
But the only gentleman who had alledged in its fav- lections, it would not make one hair,white or black.
or, a principle, as the foundation of a right, was But prospectively, it was of great consequence:
his colleague (Mr. Blake.) His principle was this. In this point of view he put it to the consideration
"Life is precious. Liberty is precious. Both more of the landholders, and yeomanry of the country.
precious than property. Every man, whose life and The principle was peculiarly important to them.
liberty is made liable to the laws, ought therefore Every thing indicates that the destinics of the coun-
to have a voice, in the choice of his legislators." try will eventuate in the establishment of a great
Grant this argument to be just. Is it not equally | manufacturing interest in the Commonwealth.
applicable to women and to minors ?" Are they not There is nothing in the condition of our country,to
lible to the laws.? Ought they not, then to have a prevent manufacturers from being absolutely de-
voice in the choice? The denial of this right to pendant upon their employers, here as they are
them shows, that the principle is not just. Society every where else. The whole body of every man-
may make a part of its members obnoxious to laws, ufacturing establishment therefore, are dead votes,
and yet deny them the right of suffrage, without a- counted by the head, by their employer. Let the
ny injustice. Again..it has been said that pecun- gentlemen from the country consider, how it may
iary qualification was contrary to the spirit of our affect their rights, liberties and properties, if in
coustitution. Those who took this ground had net every county of the Commonwealth there should
favored the convention with their definition of the arise, as in time, there probably will, one, two, or
spirit of our constitution Though it was very plain three manufacturing establishments, each sending,
from the course of their arguments that what they as the case may be, from one to eight hundred
understood by it, was a spirit of universal or unlim-.1 votes to the poils depending on the will of one em-
ited liberty. Now, this is not the spirit of our con- ployer., one great capitalist. In such a case would
stitution ; which is a spirit of limited liberty ; of they deemn such a provision as this of no conse-
reciprocal control. Rédaced to the form of a de- quence? At present it is of little importance.-
finition, this is the meaning of the terni, spirit of || Prospectively of very great. As to the inconven-
our constitution—The will of the people, expressed | ience resulting from the present provision, this
through an organization by balanced power. Every was anply balanced by its effect as a níoral
man therefore, who would compare any given pro- means, and as an incentive to industry. But these
vision, with the spirit of our constitution, ought not had heen already well and satisfactorily elucidated
to recur to principles of abstract liberty, but to | by his colleague (Mr. Dutton) and the gentleman
principles of balanced liberty. With respect to from Concord (Mr. Hoar.)
those checks and balaiřces, which according to the Mr. SLOCUM of Dartmouth said he recol-
form of our constitution, constitute the character lected that in 1775 the saying was current, that
of Massachusetts liberty, those gentlemen take a taxation and representation should gohad in hand.
very narrow view of the subject, who deem that Take ibis text, and apply it to the men whio are
they exist only, in the separation of the powers of excluded by this qualification from the rights of
government, into the legislative, judicial and exec- voting. Who are they? thie labouring parts of so-
utive; or in ile division of the legislative power a- ciety. How long liave they been lettered ? Forty
mong three branches. Every limitation of the ex- years. Who achieved our independence? This
ercise of any right or power, under the constitution class of men, And shall we then disfranchise
makes a part of that balance ; which will be dis- them? I hope not.
As the constitution now is
? turbed by its removal. The provision of a pecun- these men are deprived of voting and must stand
iary qualification is of this nature. It is one of the by and see the rich putting in their votes like
checks in our constitution. How it operates, Patience, on the monument, smiling at Grief."-
wliom it affects, whom it benefits are worthy of con- If a man was a Newton or a Locke, 'if he is poor,
sideration. In the course of the argument in the he may stand by and see his liberties voted away.
convențion, it has been considered as a check, in Supprise an invasion should happen--hege men
favor of the rich, and against the peor. Now the would be obliged to come forward in defence of
fact is, that it is directly the reverse. If we should their country. He felt conscientiously bound to
suppose the rich, acting as a class, this is the first give them the right of voting, and he hoped the
provision, which they ought to expunge. And on motion for reconsideration would not prevail.
the other hand, it is ihe last, with which the poor M« AUSTIN, of Boston, said the gentlemen,
ought to consent to part. In its true charac- who were unwilling to change the principles of the
ter, this provision is in favor of the poor, Constitution, instead of striking out this qualifica-
and against the pauper ;--that is to say, lien ought to increase the sun, on account of the
in favour of those, who have something, change in the value of money : lie thought, how'-
but very little ; against those, who have ever., ibat it would be impossible for them to effect
nothing at all. Suppose all qualification of proper- this, and experience had shewn the impolicy of re-
ty taken away, wlio gains by it? The poor nan, quiring the present qunlification. He would not i
who has just properly enough to be qualified to conteud againsy tie right of requiring, it, thougla
vote? Or the rich wlose property is a great sur- there were strong arguments on that. side, but he
plus ? The rich man's individual vote is, mceed, considered it inexpedieut. · Tlic provision could
countervailed by its as well as the poor man's. But not be carried into effect; it was the cause of per-
the great difference is this, that the poor man has - ) jury and iminorality-it did not prevent a fraudu-
thus lost his poliucal all; he has to power of in-- liest man from voling, who owed more than lic was
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
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worth hut debarred-an honest poor man who paid er young men were discouragédurder this constita-
his debts-and it fended to throw suspicion of un- tion, when called upon to defend their country,
fairness on the municipal authority. He asked, their ardor would be chilled. Want of property
wbat will you do with your labouring men ? they in a free government, should be the last thing to
have no freeholdno property to the amount of prevent men from voting, unless the possession of
tivo hundred dollars, but they support their familie's property were shown to be necessarily connected
reputably witli their daily earnings. .What will with virtue. The preseni constitution would have
" you do with your sailors ? Men who labor hard, excluded our Saviour from this privilege. He
and scatter with inconsiderateness the product of|| hoped the vote would not be reconsidered.
theit toil, and who depend on the earnings of the Mr. FOSTER, considered this a distinct ques.
next voyage. What will you do with your young tion from that of requiring a pecuniary qualification
mien? who have spent all iheir money in acquir- for holding office. No inan' had a right to office,
ing an education. Must they buy their right to but ahli-men had a right to a voice in the election of
vote? Must they depend on their friends or parents | poblic officers. He assumed it as a fundamental
to parchase it for them? Must they wait till they principle that laxation and representation should
have turned their intelligence into stock? Shall all go together. All rateable polls were counted in
these classes of citizens be deprived of oldę rights : giviog a right of representation, and the persons
of freemen for want of property ? Regard for who contributed to give the right to representation,
country, he said, did not depend upon property, ought oot to be deprived of the privilege of voting
but upon institutions, laws, habits and associations. for the ropresentative. He considered the rights
Tuis qualification was said to encourage industry : of property as secured by that part of the provision
it was better to depend op the principle of char- relative to the Senate, whichi apportioned ihe sena-
acter and independence which a man feels in ex- tors according to property
ercising the privilege of a freeman. If taking a- Mr. FLINT, ot Reading, said the poor man
vvay this qualification would weaken the moral would be worse off than he is now, if this talk a-
force in the community, as had been urged; he bout equal rights were carried into effect. He asked
should be for retaining it ; but that force depends what right a poor man possesing a hundred dollars,
on education, and the diffusion of intelligence.- and having ten children, had to ć l upon a mali,
One gentleman (Mr. Quincy) had looked forward posessed of a hundred thousand dollars lo educate
to our becoming a great manufacturing people ; and help support his children ? take away this as.
Cod forbid. If it should happen, however, it was sistance and you affect the poor man's life and com-
not to be expected, that this modicum of property Orts,
which he would consider of much more con-.
required would exclude the labourers ju manifac-
sequence than the privilege of voting He hoped
tories from voting. It was better to let theni vole there would he a reconsideration.
they would otherwise become the Lazaroni of Mr. DANA, of Grolon, unhesitatingly said that
the country. By refusing this right to them, you that requiring this qualification was an aristocra-
array them against the laws; but give them the tical and anu-republican principle. It was intro-
rights of citizens-mix them with the good part of | duced into the constitution forty years ago when
society, and you disarm them.
the principles of Government were not so well un-
Mr. THOŘNDIKE, of Boston was in favor of derstood as at present, and wlien-the country was
But few alterations in the constitution and opposed not assured of its independence. He considered
to this. He rose to speak only of the practical ef- l it a mischievous principle which had been the cause
fect of this provision in the constitution, so far as it of much moral corruption. ;
had come iinder bis observation. He had long Mr. WARD, of Boston, did not consider this a.
been acquainted with the sea-faring men in a high- a contest between the old and the young; or, be-
boriúg town of about 4000 inhabitants, and had wit- tween the rich and the poor, but as a question,
Nessed there the effect of the provision in the con- which course was inost likely to promote tlie public
stitution upon young men under age, which had good. That course of proceeding which was most
been described by the gentleman (rom) Concord, likely to secure the rights of all classes of people
yesterday, as operating upon young ner engaged was the proper one. If to require po pecuniary
in agricultural pursuits They were generally anx- ll qualification to make a voter was the niost likely
jous to amass the little property necessity to give mode of securiug the best good of the whole, it
them the right of voting, and this anxiety had a ought certainly to be adopted. On ihe contrary, if
favorable effect on their babits and character. The
who
case of seainen bad been alluded to as entitled to
rectly interested in the protection of the rights of
consideration. They had been described as men property, as well as of life and liberty, was the most
who scatter a great deal of pioney and do not save probable mode of securing the enactment of just,
enough to make them voters under the constitution. equal, and useful laws, there could be no doubt
The votes of Seamen of that description he said, that the people have a right, and that it is their duty
ought not to be received: They were the votes of so to limit the privilege of sufferage. He slated a
their owners, or of intriguing nien who wish either variety of considerations which induced him to be-
to get into office themselves or to get their friends lieve that the qualification of property had a ten-
in. If the qualification was not high enough to dency to secure the government in the hands of
auswer all the objects for which it was intended men who would have a greater interest in promot,
that was no reason for rejecting it altogether. It ing the general good. If this qualification produced
might be of great use. It'frauds were committed, such eviis as perjury and iniorality, he was sorry
measures might be taken to prevent them and for it; but the same objection would lie against re-
obviate the objections on that ground. quiring other qualifications. The qualification of
Mr. RICHARDSON, of Hingham, in a written age and residence were commonly allowed upon
speech, observed that in accordance with an arti- the assertion of the voter himself. He said it was
cle in the declaration of rights, there ought to be a of more importance even to the persons excluded,
representation on the foundation of equality. This That there sivould be a good government, than that
could not be, so long as any people, who are tax- they should bear a part in electing the officers to
ed, do noi vote. The right of voting was a grand administer it.
and essential privilege of Treenen. It was necessa- Mr. BALDWIN was inclined to extend the
ry, in order to check the growing aristocracy, privilege without a qualification of property. He.
wliich is most to be dreaded in a republic, to ex- had always approved of the prin ::! lê that taxation
tend the priviledge. Young nen who bear arms, and representation should be units It is asserted
were now treated as slaves. Apprentices and oth- in the Bill of Rights - all wen 're born free and
1
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equal." Sonie nien are bori entitled to great jecting the pecuniary qualification. If åny was
property. This property cannot give them a right vecessary, thạt now provided, was too low to ans-
Si voling, but the right belongs to all persons; who wer the purpose. . Experience had shown that it
are born equal; and should be equally entitled to had done no good; but had been frequently the
all the privileges of freemen. If property gives a means of raising ill blood and producing confusion,
right of voting, why should not a man worth 100,000 When a man becomes twenty-one years of age, let
dollars put in an hundred votes; as well asose who lum be a freeman-receive him into the bosom of
liás 200 dollars put in one vote? He thought we society, and he will be more likely to be a useful
could not without an infringement of this first citizen. He alluded to the case of sailors who are
principle of our excellent constitution retain the by tliis provision deprived of their right of suffrages
pecuniary qualification. Mr. Keyes of Concord, l Without them the country would have been con-
had offered this resolution out of regard to the paratively worth nothing. We cannot do without
inoral order wliich he thought ought to "be
preserv- them, and they öuglit not to be excluded from the
ed in the community. As a moral man lie was in right of voting. They ought to be nourished and
ſavor of the resolutio; and hoped it ivould pre.
cherished.
Vail.
Mr. , of ini, did not rise to enter into
Mr: SAVAGE said, if the vote passed against the debate, but to call for the previous question.
the reconsideration; it would be against the sense CHAIRMAN-There is no previous question in
of nine tenths of the committee. All who had the Committee.
spoken in favor of the principle, had rested it on Mr. LELAND was aware that much evil häd
the favorite principle of the revolution, that taxa- existed under the old system. There had been
tion and représeniation should go together. But
much abuse--but this was no reason why weshonld
the proposition as it has passed the committee run into another evil. He asked if gentlemen were
poes to exclude the very principle on which they prepared to go the length of the resolution. The
found tlieir argument. He did not agree in the o- objects of governinient were the security of property;
pinion of the gentleman from Groton (Mr. Dana) as well as of personal rights. If this resolution is
that those who framed our constitution were ignora" || most likely to secure these rights it ought to be a
fint of the principles of free government; nor was dopted. But it must be known to every one that
there any truih in the apology for its supposed im- there are persons ih every town, who are never put
perfections, that in 1780 they were not certain that into a tax bill, because the town officers know
our independence would be maintained. There very well that no tax could be collected from them:
iras not a' child or 15 years old, then in the com: The principle on which the resolution had been
thonwealth; who did not feel sure and see that our defended was, that those who paid taxes, ought to
independence night and would be secured: The håre a right to vote. He proceeded to illustrate
his argument by the application of the resolution
ples that were imperfectly understood; but upon to the persons in Boston not taxéd.
the principles of their fathers and grandfathers; The question for reconsideration was taken and
which had long been practised on and were well decided in the affirmative-200 to 200, the chait-
anderstood. In relation to the subject of the reso- man giving his casting vote in the affirmative.
lution; he thought there might to be a change in
Mr. BLAKE moved to amend the resolution so
the constitution - a change that sbould accommo- as to provide that every citizen of this commons
date it to the principle on which gentlemen had wealth who is subject to pay and does pay taxes in
šupported the resolution, and put it on the footing the town wherein he resides; including also minista
that those wlio bear the burden of supporting gov- ters of the gospel and all otbers who are or may be
Crnment should have the right of voting. A gentle specially exempted by law from taxation, shall
man had stated that he had a proposition to make, liave the right to vote in the election of public offi-
the objcct of which, would be to introduce this cers in this commonwealth. Mr. B: stated his reas
principle into the constitution. But it could not be son for offering the amendment.
received unless the vote was reconsidered. Why The amendment was agreed to.
should not the vote be reconsidered, to give gentle- The question on the resolution as amended was.
imen an opportunity to have precisely what they then taken, and decided in the affirmative.
want ? He did not wish to exclude young men, Mr. NICHOLS moved to amend by striking out
who are useful members of socieiy, and who pay the words " does pay.'
ä tax for the support of government. Let it be pro- CHAIRMAN. It cannot be done. An amend.
vided that those who pay their taxes shall vote. But ment of the resolution having been adopted; that a'a
there are many men who never pay a tax; and nev- mendment cannot be amended. It may possibly
er would pay if they were assessed, but who by the be done in convention, but it cannot be done in
resolution would be admitted to the right of voting.
committee.
There were in the town of Boston about 6000 vo. Mr: BOND;
of Boston, said that the Rev: gena
ters, and if all male persons over 21 years old were treffit
in Boston and Hinghan (Mr. Baldwin
admitted, there might be 2000 more. Of these and Mr. Richardson) quoted the declaration of
2000 not one quarter pay any tax, and ought not to rights, in the same way that people sometimes gar:
be allowed to vote du the principle upon which the ble the scriptures. The whole constitution should
resolution has been supported.
be taken together. They quote the declaration of
Mr. DANA said he did not mean to charge the rights to prove that requiring this qualification of
framers of the constitution with want of intelli- property is contrary to the principles of the cona
ģence. They retained a small relick of ancient stitution, when it is the constitution itself which
prejudices, and he hoped we should get rid of it. requires this gualification.
In respect to another point, he said Cornwăllis was The Committee proceeded to take up the reso-
Hot taken at the tinte this constitution was made; lutions offered by Mr. Dearborn. The 1st being
and much apprehension was entertained in rei that which goes 10 provide that the Senate shall be
spect to our independence.
apportioned among the several districts, according
Mr. VARNUM was yesterday iinpressed with to the number of inbabitants in each.
an idea that it would be proper to reconsider this Mr. DEARBORN supported the resolution in a
vote, but since he had seen the resolution of the speech of considerable length of which we can
geiitleman from Concord offered this morning, he give but a brict abstract. He did not know
thought it was unnecessary. The object proposed whenee the principie by which the Senate is appor.
hy the reconsideration, could be provided for by tioned by the present Constitution was derived. I
an independent resolution. He was in favor oire- was not to be found in the organization of any of
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
the republics ancient or modern. It did not exist Mr. PARKER was not very anxious about the
in Greece, Rome, Venice or Genoa. It was not found
system of representation for the Senate which
in the British House of Lords. The me nibers of should be adopted. But if a part of the system re-
that House support the rights of the aristocracy, ported by the Select Committee was rejected, the
and are their own Representatives. In the United vote on the remainder vould be different. The
States there is but one class of people. They are propositions for the reduction of Representatives
all freemen and have equal rights. "The prirciple and for paying them out of the public treasury had
of a Representation of property in our Constitution been agreed to on the principle that the senatorial
was not derived from the neighbouring states;- l representation should remain as it is fixed by the
New. Hampshire was the only state whose consti- present Constitution. If it was understood that the
tution contained a similar provision. If the prin- | principle of representation in the Senate was to be
ciple was a good one, it was remarkable that it changed, it could not be expected that the votes
had not been adopted in any other state. The on- which had passed should be adhered to: It was
ly reason he had ever heard of to justify the princi-l manifestly unjust that Boston, for example, which
ple was that taxes are paid in proportion to prop- was reduced to fourteen or fiſteen Representa-
erty, and that the principle of apportionment was tives—a number considerably less than its propor-
designed for the protection of property, But this tion according to population, should be held to pay
protection was not necessary. Property secures for fifty Representatives.
respect whenever it is not abused, and the influence Mr. DEARBORN said that it had been his in-
of those who possess it is sufficient for its pro- tention if the l'esolution passed, to submit a propo,
tection. He appreheided nothing at present from sition tliat the representatives should be distributed
the Representation of wealth. But the time might in proportion to population that three, four or
come when the accumulation of property within fire, according to the opinion of the House, should
twenty miles of the capital would he sufficient 10 be assigned to each senatorial district. He had no
control the Senate. At present the county of idea that the Senate should represent population;
Berkshire of about equal population with Suffolk, and the House be represented in the mode propos-
would have but a third part of the Representation, ed in the report.
and the man of large property in the former county Mr. QUINCY hoped that the committee would
would have but a third part of the influence accede to the liberal proposition of the gentleman
through the Senate which was enjoyed by a from Roxbury, and allow of a reconsideration that
man of tlie, same property in the latter county. the subject might be discussed in a manner suited
This was not just, equitable nor proper. He ap- to its importance.
pealed'to the magvanimity of the rich to yield to Mr. DWIGHT, of Springfield, said that he had
The poor their equal proportion of rights The not expected that the principle of representation
principle might be adopted now, but the people in the Senate would have been touched. He con-
would be dissatisfied with it, they would constantly sidered the resolutions reported by the select com;
protest against it, and it would be at some time or mittee as forming one system, and that a part
other necessarily yielded to tfieir importunity. should not be adopted without the rest.
The question on the resolution was then taken, Mr. LINCOLN said that he had not considered
and decided in the affirmative--236 to 145.
the report of the select committee, as a system
The question on the other resolution offered by which was to be accepted in the whole or rejected:
Mr. Dearborn, which makes it the duty of the leg- He had however no objection to the reconsidera-
islafure after each decennial census to form the tion.
stattanto districts, was laken up and agreed to. The motion for reconsideration was agreed to
Mr. DANA wished to inquire of the chairman 260 rising in favor of it.
of the select committee, whetheruthe resolutions On motion of Mr. STORY, the committee rose,
just passed did not supersede a part of the resolu- reported progress, and had leave to sit again.
tions which had been agreed to in committee of the Mr. LYMAN, of Northampton, offered a "leso-
whole yesterday.
lution, proposing such an amendnient of the Con-
Mr. PRESCOTT thought they did. He said stitution, that the Commonwealth should be divided
that the committee who reported those resolutions into districts, for the choice of Representatives, no
had considered the whole as forming one system.- district except Boston, to contain niore than 15,000
Every gentleinan of the committoe considered that inhabitants, and the number of representatives not
the principle of apportionment in the Senate pro- to exceed one for every 3,000 inhabitants.
vided in the Constitution, and which they had not Mr. LINCOLN offered two resolutions, propos-
proposed to change, was a reason for recommend-
ing such an amendment of the Constitution, that
ing. a system of representation in the other house,
every town now entitled to a representative shall
which gave an advantage to the small towns at the still have one. Every town containing 3000
expense of the large towns. The proposition for inhabitants to have two-lowns of 6500 to have
paying the members out of the treasury was a three-10;500 to have four, and so on. Adding
part of the system. This would be manifestly un- 500 each time to the last increasing number.
just if the towns which pay the largest proportion The resolutions offered by Mr. Lyman and Mr:
of tax, were to be deprived of the privilege which Lincoln, were committed to a committee of the
in consequence of that tax they enjoyed of repre- whole house, and ordered to be printed.
sentation in the Senate. He was proceeding to The House adjourned.
mention the several features of the system which
were considered as depending on one another,
when
WEDNESDAY, DEC. 13.
The chairman said that no question was before
The thouse met at 9 o'clock, and attended prayers
the House.
offered by the Rev. Mr. Palfrey. After which the
Mr. PRESCOTT said that he rose to answer journal of yesterday was read.
the inquiry of the gentleman from Groton.
Mr. WEBSTER, of Boston, offered the follow-
Mr. NICHOLS said that to give the gentleman ing resolution, viz :
an opportunity to pursue his remarks, he would Resolved, That all the reports of the com-
move a reconsideration of the vote for accepting ||mittee of the whole, not acted upon, be made
Mr. Dearborn's first resolution, Mr. Dearborn
the order of the day for Monday next; at 10
acccded to the propriety of opening the whole
subject as the resolution had passed without much ilo'clock, and be considered and determined
debate
in the order in which they shall have been
!
1
1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
127
i
reported and that a committee of mem- time as may be necessary to complete such elec-
bers, be appointed to reduce such amend- tions, provided that po meeting shall be continued
ments as have been, or may be agreed upon,
more than three days
The resolution was likewise altered, so as to ex-.
to the form in which it will be proper to sub-
tend to districts, and passed as amended.
mit the same to the people for ratification, The second resolution related to the day on which
The blank was filled with nine, and the resolution these elections should take place.
was adopted.
Mr. PRESCOTT moved to fill the blank with the.
The PRESIDENT said he should require time second Monday of November.
to select the committee.
Mr. HUBBARD preferred some other day than,
MY DEARBORN, of Roxbury, offered two res- Monday, because the Sunday preceding would, in
olutions, which he wished to be considered as part this town, he spent in electioneering. He propos
of a series with the two which he had before pre-
ed Wednesday
sented relating to the Senate, in substance as fol. After some slight debate, in whio! Messrs Dear-
lows, viz :
born. Holmes, Dana, Walter, Martin, Hoyt and
3d. Resolved, That the House of Repre- | Parker took a part, relating as well to the inonih
sentatives shall consist of members.
as to the day of the week :
4th. Resolved, That the Representatives
Mr. PRESCOTT'S motion was adopted, and
the resolution being altered for conformity so as to
shall be apportioned among the legislative | extend to districts, was passed.
districts according to the population in each. The third and fourth resolutions were adopted
On motion of Mr.DEARBORN, they were re- without debate.
ferred to the committee of the whole on the Sen- APPORTIONMENT OF THE SEVATE.
ate, &c.-119, to 85.
The committee proceeded to the consideration
On motion of Mr. PRESCOTT, of Boston, the of the resolution under discussion when the com-
house went into committee of the whole on the un.. mittee rose yesterday, viz. the resolution for divid-
finished business of yesterday ; Mr. Webster, of ing the Commonwealth into districts for the choice
Boston, in the chair.
of Senators according to population.
On motion of Mr. PARKER, of Boston, the com- Mr. PARKER [President] trusted no apology.
mittee first took up the consideration of the second was necessary for his rising on this occasion-lie
report of the select committee, relating to elections. thought he had not consumed more than his share
The report was read, and the question was upon of the time of the convention;—with the gentleman,
the first resolution, proposing that the town meet- from Littleton, he hated long speeches, except
ings for the election of Governor, Lieut. Governor, such as that which the gentleman made when
Şenators and Representatives, shall be holden an he made the declaration, and which seemed in his
the same day in each year.
mind [Mr. F.] to be an exception. Gentlemen
Mr. SIBLEY, of Sution, moved to amend the. from all parts of the house had prefaced their re-
resolution so as to include Counsellors.
marks with a profession of no intention to violate
The CHAIRMAN observed, that probably the any fundamental principle of the constitution"; yet
gentleman and the house generally, were not aware some of those same gentlemen hadyesterday in part:
of the state of the report of the select committee on voted for a resolution which, in his opinion, viola..
the subject of counsellors. He said that as it had ted one of the vital and fundamental principles of
been committed to a new committee of the whole,. the constitution. He trusted it was from a
the proceedings of the first coinmittee of the whole misapprehension of the nature of the proposition
were annulled.
he was certain that in a number of indivi-
Messrs. Sullivan, Picknan and Prescott, made ab- duals this was the case, and that having had
jections to the amendment.
time for reflection, they had changed their opin:
The amendment was negatived.
ions. In the opinion of the framers of the consti-
Mr. AUSTIN, of Boston, moved to strike. out tution the most important principle in the form of
4 and representatives," as more than one day might government, was the system of checks and balan-
be requisite to complete the elections in large towns. ces. The sentiment had been repeatedly expres-
MI: LINCOLN, of Worcester, objected to the sed here, that a system of checks and balances in
amendment, because it was desirable, that one the different departments of the government and
town should not be influenced, in its elections of between the branches of the Legislature, was es-
representatives, by the result of the elections in oth- sential to the preservation of liberty. There had
formerly been doubts, on this subject, but it might
Mr. JACKSON, of Boston, said that in respect now be considered to be the unanimous voice of
to the Governor, &c. only one balloting was neces- the civilized world; and the general .prevalence of
sary, but it might be otherwise in the choice of rep- the doctrive might be in a great measure attribut-
resentatives, in towns entitled to elect several. In ed to the eloquence and learning of onc who was
Boston, where forty-five were sometimes ballotted now a member of the Convention. The sentiment
for, if there should be split-tickets, two or more was expressed in the preamble to one of the re-
balſotings might betequired; in which case more ports made to this. Convention, and afterwards,
than one day would be requisite to complete the though no practical purpose was intended by it, it.
elections. The object of the gentleman from Bos- was thrown into the form of a resolution, was unan-
ton would be obtained by adjourning from day to imously adopted, and is now on record as expres-
day, till the election was finished. Some persons sing the opinion of every individual in this house.
thought that towns already possessed this power, It could not be expected therefore that there should
and he was inclined to think so hinself, though he be any vole of this body inconsistent with thatprin-
did not know what would be his opinion upon an ciple. He could have had no apprehension until
examination of the subject. It was better, howev- the passing of the vote. yesterday, of any disposi.
er, to remove all doubt, by using express words. He tion to abolish the check which the two houses of
had prepared an amendment with this view. the Legislature have upon each other. What was
Mi. AUSTIN withdrew his amendinent, to give | the principle that was considered or so much im.
place to Mr Jackson's, which, modified at the portance ? Not merely having two houses chosen
suggestion of Mr. Pickman, and with a blank filled, at the same time, in the same districts and by the
was adopted as follows: “But [the town meetings] samc persons—but meeting in two roons; two
may he continued from day to day by adjournment, bodies thus constituted would come together with
for the purpose of choosing representatives for such the same views and agitated by the same passions.
er towns.
1 28
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION
1
The principle required that there should be two l upon the proportion of population, and in the oth:
bodies organized in such a manner that each night er on the proportion of taxation. The latter prin-
have an effeetual check upon the other. The gen- ciple did not give rich men any greater influence
ileman from Roxbury said yesterday that the sys- in the Senate; it gave them no more influence
tem in our constitution was a novel one and no the choice of the Sgnate ; it was merely that
where else to be found in the civilized world, If the people should be represented in the Senate in
It was so, he (Mr. P.) considered it an honour to proportion to the contributions of each district to
Massachusets to have invented such a system. the support of the public burthens. In the lower
That gentleman had travelled over classic ground house the proportion of numbers was departed
to show that there were no such examples, but from only in tayor of towns that had been before
there was ng more analogy between the ancient represented. On what did the right of towns rest?
republics and the governments now to be found in It was on the ground that it was granted to them
the United States than there was between the most by the Constitution. On what does the right of
cruel despotisp of Asia, and the freest government counties or districts to be represented according
on earth.' What is the Senate of Massachusetts ? to their taxation rest?. It was secured to then by
It comes from the people, and is chosen by the the Constitution. Both, it was true, the people
people,and it is not in the power of any body of men, might alter, but if one system was altered, the oth-
however rich to obtain an undue influence over it. er should be. If this resolution was accepted, we
Suppose there are among its nunbers five or six ought for consistency's sake to follow up the meas, :
men who are rich, they can have no more power ures proposed by the gentleman from Roxbury,
than any other members. Rich men are no more and divide the state into equal districts for repre-
likely to be elected than in the other branch. sentatives. He proceeded to illustrate the injusta
They have no more influence in the elections, as ice of destroying the principle of representation in
they go to the polls with no more power than the the Senate and preserving to the towns their right
poorest voter.
He thought that the gentle- of representation in the other branch, and stated
man in censuring the organization of this the precise principle on which the senatorial rep-
body, was led away by his enthusiastic ad- resentation is founded. He said that in examining
miration for ancient tiines.. MrParker as- the Constitution he found anple reasons to satisfy
ked, should there be a check of one branch of him that we were not wiser than our predecessors,
the Legislature upon the other? Every gentleman He reverenced the Constitution, though he was not
answered that there should.
What shonld it be? afraid to touch it, because there were undoubtedly,
In many of the governments of the states of the
through inadvertence on the part of its framers, or
Union there was an organization similar in sub- from a change of circumstance, defects which
slance to that in ours, though the mode was some- might he remedied. He hoped gentlemen would
thing changed. The Senate of the United States pause before they adopted and measure which
is chosen in a different manner from the House of should subvert its fundamental principles.
Representatives; it is chosen by the Legislatures Mr. LAWRENCE, of Groton, 'said the resolu-
of the states, representing the sovreignty of the tion before the committee was a proposition lo in
There was no state in the Union except troduce a new principle into the constitution. He
Connecticut, Rhode Island, and Maine which had should think it proper to consider it, not as an ah,
pot established a check, by a different mode of re- stract proposition, but as connected with the sub-
presentation of the people, in the two branches.- ject of the house of representatives. The gentle:
In some, the distinction was made by enlarging man from Roxbury, (Mr. Dearborn) proposed to
the qualifications of the Electors in others in the make population the basis of both branches of the
qualifications of the persons elected--and in oth- legislature. In this plan there was something like
ers by giving a longer duration in office. It would
consistency. Another mode of constituting the
no doubt be more xcceptable to the people of this house of representatives, was the one reported by
stale to preserve the present inode than to prolong the select committee; and that proposed by the
the term of office. In New-Hampshire an organi- gentleman from Worcester, (Mr. Lincoln) was a
zation yuạs adopted similar to ours. In New-York, | third. He was glad to see all these plans brouglit
the Senators were chosen for four years and no forward, because they might be compared together's
persons were allowed to vote in the election of and because it was improper to organize ane branch
them but freeholders. The Senate was therefore of the legislature without having reference to the
more directly formed opon property than ours. In other. It we were forming an original constitu-
Pennsylvania the members of the Senate were e- tion, it might perhaps be proper to adopt thc plan
Tected for four years. In Delaware for two years of the genileman from Roxbury; but we were to
with a qualification of property in the electors. In consider the constitution under which we have
Maryland, the Senate was chosen for four years.- lived for forty years. Our towns had long heen
In Virginia, for foor years. In North Carolma the in the exercise of corporate rights, and would
Senators are required to be possessed of three be unwilling to give thạni up. He would not
hundred acres of land in fee. In South Carolina say that we might not with their conscnt, change the
no person can be elected Repsesentative but such principle of choosing representatives, but they
ás are possessed of fire hundred acres of land and would be unwilling 10 change, and he thought the
ten negroes. And for the Sennie the qualification present system was the best. More talents were
is a thousand acres of land or an equivalent in per- brought together, and there was a beuer, and in
sonal property. He proceeded to state other ex- times of dilticulty, a more efficient representation
amples. There was a great number of free repub- of the whole Commonwealth,than could be obtain-
lics who have grown up in the sunshine of liberty ed in any other way. He would not depart from
ånd with the example of the whole world before this system unless it were necessary to preserve
them, have settled their foruis of spvernment upon equality; but if the plan of the genilemau from
å prisciple similar in that which is found in ours. Roxbury, in regard to the Senate should prevail,
It was extraordinary that any one should say
that this could not be retained with consistency. He
this was a novel principlc, and for that reason to then proceeded to consider the scheme introduced
be expunged from our Constitution. The mode by the gentleman from Worcester. What was the
was a little different, but it was here more consis. basis of it? Corporate righis. What were corpo-
tept with thë pripciples of civil liberiy, than in any rale rights ? property. He said it was the most
or the instances which he had enumerated. The unjust and unequal representation that could be de
jepresentation in our Legislature was founded vised. It was demonstrable, that it would enable
upon tivo principles--in the most numerous branch, one third part of the population to secure a major
states,
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
129
If it was
city in the Horisë of Representatives. Another ob- have been effected if we had had a single rep.
Héction to it was, that representatives ought to be resentative in the British parliament. Secure the
paid out of the public chest. To provide for this right of represeutation ; but in the regulation of
was one of the objects of calling this convention, that right, you may restrict it to .any proportion
but on this plan it would be glaringly unjust.-- whatever. Whether you are represented by one
Mr. L. said, that as the present principle of the or forty-five, it is utterly in vain to complain that
Senate had been in operation forty years, and no you have no representation. But any other dis-
inconvenience had been experienced from it, it tribution of representation than according to popu
was proper to adhere to it, and urged the necessi-lation, is unequal and unjust. He alluded to the
ty vi retaining it on account of its connection with case mentioned yesterday by the gentleman from
the system reported by the select committee.
Roxbury of one senator for the county of Suffolk
Mr. SLACUM spoke in favor of the resolution. for every 7,509, inhabitants while there was in the
Mr. LINCOLN requested that before his propo- county of Berkshire but one for every 20,00C,
sition was declared unequal, it might be examined, which hc pronounced to be an instance of mant
and before he was pronounced unjust, he might be gross and cruel inequality. He stated the case
heard in his defence. The question now under of an individual lately deceased whose property of".
consideration was. on what principle should the 1,300,000 dollars alone, would haveas much infly-
representation in the senate be founded ? He a- ence in the Senate as 1300 independent farmers with
greed in the sentiment that a free government must a property of 1000 dollars each. This principle con-
be founded on a systein of checks and balances-- ferred upon a dangerous part of the community an
and it was on this principle that he supported the undue arid upwarrantable share in the representar
resolution offered by the gentleman frein Roxbury. tion. “A man of 1,300,000 dollars property sur-
But he did not adnit that to obtain this check it l'ounded by 1299 others of no property, confers on
was necessary to assume the principle of a repre- them an influence equal to the same number of in
sentation of property in either branch. It was at- depencient inen worth 1000 dollars each. He con.
tained by adopting a different mode of representa-
tended that if it was a sound principle that proper- :
lion for the two branches as well as a diterent ty should confer the right of representation, it
principle. The object of a check was equally at- ought not to be restricted, and Surfalk should have
tained by adopting different qualifications for eiect eight Senators. Imposing the restriction was ad-
ors, or different periods of election
mitting that the principle was false and unjust.-
shown by argument, by experience, or by arithme- Takiny population as the basis, no. inequality
țical calculation that any principle was unequal,chat would resule. He protested against any misappre-
ought io be abandoned, and another adopted not bension of his feelings and motiveshe bad no
susceptible of the objection. He should prococd to disposition to excite jealousies, nor to prevent the
show the inequality and unjust operation of the old exercise of rights--if they were founded upon
principle, and then endeavor to show that the of- principle. He professed a great respect for the
fect contemplated from checks may be
be secured by
by people of the metropolis--but he protested against
another principle nut liable to these objections.-- their burrowing through the respect entertained
If it should be shown that representation
according for the town, any influence that was pot secured
to valuation was not just, and that the object could every other part of the people.
be attained by letting the whole people vote for Mr. SÚLLIVAN said that he had abstained from
one branch, and freeholders only for the other by taking part in debate for the reason that those gen-
choosing one for two years and the other for one tlemen who had been deputed to consider particu.
or in any other mode, which is not unequal-this lar parts of the constitution, were most competent
principle should be abandoned. He admitted that lo show the reasons on which their reports had
it Senators were to be chosen from certain districts, been founded. That having been on the legislative
and Representatives from the same, and for the committee, he thought it might be proper io tuke
same period, according to the plan of the gentle- some paxt in this debate, on the principles on which
mun from Roxbury, there would be no check- the report of the select committee resied.: 'Chat
But it was not so with the plan which he had when a constitution is to be formed originally, or
posed. He had proposed that the Representatives a constitution is to be revised, the governing object
in the other brauch should be chosen' by towels.com is, to compromise and conciliate as to conflicting
and the system would then be analogous to that of interests, and to produce a result in, which a ma-
the Congress of the United States, reversing the jority may agree. The select committee were in-
terms only, one representing the corporations of pressed with the necessity of reducing the number
towns and the othor the population. Was the prin- of Representatives and of reducing the expense
ciple of representation in the Senate equal and of legislation But on the other hand the privilege
just ? Our government is one of the people, not a so long had by the towns, of being represented in
yovernment of property. Representation is foun- the general court, could not be abandoned Be.
ded on the interests of the people. It is because sides these considerations the committee could not
they have rights that they have assumed the power disregard the expression of pnblic opinion, repeat-
of self government. · Property is incompetent to edly occurring in the House of Represcataires,
sustaiu a 'free government. Intelligence alone that the members should be paid from the public
can uplold any free government. In a govern- treasury. The purpose of the commillce was to
ment of freemen property is valuable only as the compare opinions, and to concede on one side and
people are intelligent. Were it not for a govern- llie Oller, until some resait was obtained, which
ment of the people, the people would be without could be reported with confidence. That with
property. But it is contendel that this system is such inducements he had yielded his own opinion“,
justified by another priociple. Representation and and that he had consented to a scale of representa-
taxation have been described as twin brothers, tion, very favorable to sinall towns, and to
payment
But this principle has not been fully understood. It out of the public treasury, provided thai the prin-
does not follow that there shall an unequal repres- ciple of the Senate night be preserved. Noi that
citation, that taxation may be represented. It the principle of the Senate ought to be purchased.
is only necessary that all who are taxed should That principle was more delensible than any one
be represented, and not that they should be repre- in the constitution. But in the process of arrange:
tented in proportion to their tas. Boston would mentiespiert inust be had to the impressions which
be represented if it had but a single member.- were entertained, tsy men whose 0;rinions are al-
This was the principle which was contended for ways entitled to respec. Upon suich motives ):
in the revolution and chat revolution would never lagd asconiec to ile refurt of the commitee, and
to
סיוע
1
130
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
system
was decidedly of opinion, that if it could not be sup- 1| in danger; while nine in ten, of all the laws, relate
ported, the convention would find itself under the ne- in some measure to property. The constitution
cessity of establishing some other system embrac- was framed too at a time when the great principle
ing the whole subject of legislation. Mr. S. said of no taxation without representation was not only
he doubted whetlier the people had sent us into a understood, but the country involved in a war, of
Convention to change any of the fundamental prin- dreadful consequences to maintain that principle;
ciples of the Constitution ; and that if it had been and of most disastrous effects if the war should not
submitted to the community to decide whether have been successful. There was then great fit.
,
such power should be given, they would have re- ness and wisdom in apportioning that branch of the
fused it by a great majority. That the people government, on the amount of taxes paid in given
must be presumed to be satisfied, by their own ex- districts--for it not only made a distinct branch
perience of the present constitution ; that they de- founded on a distinct basis--but that basis was the
sired no change but such as the circunstances of most reasonable, and proper, as it rests on security
the Commonwealth had rendered necessary.- of property, which next after personal security, is
That a glance at the Constitution would show, the great end and object of Government. There
that as a whole, it is the most perfect
is no constitution on this continent where some
that human wisdom has ever de vised. such principle of distinction between the two
It is in America, for the first time, since hu- branches has not been recognized with two or
man society has been known, that there has been
three exceptions. The distinction is effected iu
applied to a republican goveroment, the true prin- one of three modes-the Senators are elected for
ciple of checks among the departments of govern- || 2,3, or 4 years-with annual rotation of a part-2d,
ment, whereby each may be kept in its proper | requiring that Electors should be proprietors of real
sphere of aciion, and by acting rightly itself, com- estate--3d, that the members of the Senate should
pel the other departments to do the same,
be proprietors of realestate in a great amount and
This principle has been kuown and applied (with insome of the states all these provisions are requira
some great defects) in one government only in the ed. The proposition now is, to abolish all these dis..
world, before our own; and these defects are, per- tinctions at once. To elect the House and Senate.
haps, hastening (under peculiar circumstances) that by the same class of Electors
by the same class of Electors nearly the same
government to some great and serious clrange.- sections of the state--and to distinguish them from
Experience has developed no defect in our'sys- each other, in nothing but the difference of num.
tem. It may be pronounced in principle to be per- ber--and that they are not to sit in, one. and, the.
fect--and ought to be held sacred. It is im- same apartment. Without adverting to any politie
possible to imagine' a more perfect system in sub- cal distinction in this Commonwealth-all the
stance, than that which we have been living under. checks now existing, have been found in times of
The executive pouver arising from among the strong excitement to bę but a feeble barrier to those
people; and for a short term. The people reserv- impulses to which assemblies of men, no less than
ing to themselves the power to take their fellow individuals are subject. And no caprice or pro.
citizen from the elevation which they voluntarily pensity to, violence and tyranny can be afirmed of
give him, and of confounding him with the multi- one man which are not equally applicable to as.
lude, whenever they fmd one whom they prefer- semblies of men when party fceling gives rise lo
and an executive council being a negative on the passions, and silences the voice of reason. Supa
governor, and keeping him within proper limits. pase a common feeling and interest between the ex .
An organization of the legislative power into two ecutive and the two branches brought into union,
branchés ; each having a negative on the other- and acting to resist political opponents, and with
and the executive a qualified negative on both. A the honest belief that they were doing right ; how
judicial power totally separate from either of the easy would it be for such a combination, arranged
others, but vested, in exiseme cases, with the ne- out of the halls of Legislation, to give to their wish-
cessary power of deciding, whether the legislature es the form of law and to remove all obstacles to
have transcended, by accident, or mistake, their the exercise of power. To such a conbination, ,
limit of authority-a pawer exercised only in cases nothing would be wanting but the sword, to exhib
of most obvious and urgent necessity. What sys- it the lamentable acts, which we find in the histo
ten of checks and balances was ever more perfect. I ry of other republics; for sạch a combination
in principle, or practice and how cautiously ought would have money,and by suppressing the freedom
we to proceed in recommending any essential of the press, they would control public upinion ;
change in its features. The proposition now is, to remove all judiciary officers, and put such inen in
make a change, and one of alarming character. their places as would construe the laws according
Our progenitors saw the necessity of establishing to the wishes of the dominant party. It is not in-
such a difference between the two branches of the tended to characterize any one party, but every
legislature, as to make not a nominal, but a sub party; it is intended to allude only to human na.
stantial check, The principle of the house of rep- ture, to men as they are.--The difference between
resentatives is equality, perfect equality as to, num- obedience to passion, as between a man and an as.
bers which are to be represented. Iu ihe senate sembly of men, acting as a government, is, that
a representation not founded on numbers, but on the ons acts against law, and the other in the
a principle designed to distinguish this branch es- name of law. Mr. S. then went into a discussion
sentially from the other, 'As there was an obvious of the principle of the Senate, to shew that it was
propriety in representing in the first branch, the not founded in the representation of the rich, but
feelings, interests, wishes, and wants of the people, on the principle of the amount of taxes paid ;
a numerous delegation is sent from among the peo- that the wealthy individual has only his single
ple to take care of thiese and with the exclusive vole, in common with other citizens ;--and that the
power to origipüte-all bills which pertain to the members of the Senate represent the middling and
raising, or using of money The other branch, lower classes equally with the wealthy; and
very sinall, comparatively, in numbers, and invest- that wealth has po 'influence, merely as such,
ed with distinct powers, and among others the im over tbe free will of this intelligent community
portant one of lisiening to the impeachinent of inne which would spurn all attempts of tlie wealtliy, :
Highest executive and judicial officers, was neces- to influence the right of suffrage, if such at:
sarily founded on some other principle; and none tempts were ever made. Mr. Sullivan said
was more obvious than that of property, since in a that local feelings might be supposed to have
well balanced republic, the personal rights shaped his views; but he disclaimed all such
of the c.tizen are well secured, and rarely influence. The deliberations of the assenza .
.
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
A
131
on
r
bly werė intended to fix principles which were number of resolutions which had been adopted;
to operate for a long course of years; and no one and besause it would totally defeat the scheme
would know by whom, nor upon whom, these prin- proposed by the select committee, founded on a
ciples were to be applied ; nor would any one compromise of various interests, a part of which
this occasion conform his measures to personal, or could not be adopted to the exclusion of the rest
local objects. Happily all considerations of this without great injustice. He stated other objec-
nature were shut out of view, and every man must || tions to the resolution.
.be presumed to act not from personal, and unwor- Mr. AUSTIN, of Boston, said, before we ex.
thy motives, but from a high sense of duty, howev- changed the principle on which our Senale was
erhe might differ from others Mr.S.said he conceiv- now constituted, for the new one proposed by the
ed that the sole object was to recommend to the peo- | gentleman from Roxbury, we should first ascertain
ple what might appear,to the convention to be right, what is the present principle. It was not marked
and to trust to the good sense of the people at large, by those aristocratical tendencies which gentlemen
to decide on the merit of their reconincndation. had asserted. It gave no more power to the rich,
Mr. WILDE, of Newburyport, said that he than to the poor, nor secured their property in a
hoped that when the proposition under discussion different manner. There was no analogy between
was fully understood, a different decision would be our Constitution and the institution of patricians
made on it from that which was made by the vote and plebeians in Rome, to which that gentleman
of yesterday. It takes away one of the most im- had alluded, Nor was our Senate a citadel for the
portant checks of one branch of the Legislature rich, as it had been called by his colleague, (Mr.
upon the other; and which it was extremely de- Blake.) It was no direct representation of wealth:
sirable should be retained unless some better In some of the United States, there was such a di-
could be devised. It was a check designed for the rect representation. A representation founded on
greater protection of the rights of property. ir taxation, was a representation of the whole peo-
we would look over the history of the world, we ple; and our Senators were elected on popular
should find cases enough where the want of such principles. Rich men alone might be elected if
.
rich men alone had the privilege of voting ; but
wealth propositions for an equal division of prop-
that was not the case. To show that there was
erty agitated the people from century to century. no danger to be apprehended from the Senate, as
'It was no answer to this argument that such a dis- at present constituted, he spoke of the characters
position does not prevail at present. That is not a
of the nien who had heretofore been elected Sen-
perfect system which does not provide for all pos- ators-men of integrity and patriotism--the blaze
sible events, especially for those which the history, of whose genius had at times_illumined the course
of every free people teaches us have taken place, the people were to pursue. The comparison made
He would suppose à case, nôt improbable which by the gentleman from Worcester, (Mr: Lincoln,)
might occur 10 the Legislature of this state. That between the House of Representatives of the U.
the House of Representatives should propose to S. and a Senate founded on the principle of this
raise all taxes on property and not on polls, or on resolution, was not a just one. In the Constitution
personal properly and not on real
In such case
of the U. $. taxation and representation go hand
the Senate, as now constituted; would more nat-
in hand. If Virginia sends 20 Represcntatives and
urally than the House oppose such a proposition. I1 Massachusetts 10, Virginia must pay double the
circumstances rendered it properthey mightaccede tax of Massachusetts. If gentlemen were willing
to it. They would have a reasonable disposition to carry the principle through, and tax Berkshire
to opppse it, and nothing more. The system had as much as they tax Boston, then it would be fair
been called 'a novel one; this was no objection, if that Berkshire should have as many Senators as
it were true, in the mind of a wise man. Ilit were, Boston. The same gentleman had asked, if the
all improvements would be rejected We were present principle was correct and equal, why rea
the last people that ought to object to novelty:-
strict it? If Boston, from her valuation, was entit-
Our whole system of government is a novelty- led to eight Senators, why take up with 'six ? For
When it was first adopted it was condemned as a a very good reason--for the sake of compromise.
solecism But experience has proved its value... | If extreme rights were to be insisted upon, we
Constitutions restraining the powers of the Legis-
could forin no Constitution. He hoped the system
lature are a novelty. It had been maintained that reported by the select committee, which was a
the system was unjust. Because ro man of prop- system of compromise, would be accepted through-
erty was entitled to more weight than one who has
out the Commonwealth. He was ihrefore against
none. The principle was not true to its full ex- the present resolution.
tent. It was , principle admitted in all private
On'motion of Mr. FOSTER, of Littleton, the
corporations that all persons who have a larger committee rose--239 to 64-and reported their
share should have a larger vote. So in the com-
agreement to the resolutions in the second report
munity. That portion which contributes most to of the select committee, and that on other subjects
the public burthens sbould have the greatest
committed to them they had made some progress;
weight in the government. The reason wliy it was
and they asked leave to sit again ; which was
not carried into effect directly in regard to indi-
granted.
viduals, was because it was impracticable. But it
Mr. WOODBRIDGE, of Stockbridge, on bea
did not on that account follow that the principle
half of Mr. Bliss, chairman of the conimittee on
should not operate to any extent. It might be said
the declaration of rights, who was absent on ac-
that it would give the rich man power to oppress
count of ill healt, presented a report of that com-
the poor. This was impossible. If the Senate mittee, differing in torni only from their former
were all rich men and disposed to be udjust, the
report, which liad been recommitted.
House of Representatives would have a complete
The report was read and ordered to be printed.
check upon ihem. The gentleman from Worces-
The House adjourned.
tcr appeared not to have
fully considered the na-
tare ol the scheme. It did not give to an individu-
al of large property the weight in the government
THURSDAY, DEC. 14.
of a number of individuals whose property united
The House met at 9 o'clock and attended
amounied to the same gum. He proceeded to ex-
prayers ofiered by the Rev. Mr. Pallrey.
plain the operation of the scheme as it effected the The journal of yesterday was read.
influence of individuals. He was opposed to the
The President nominated the following gentie-
present resolution because it was repugnant to it
men to be of the committee for reducing to fora
1
132
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
;
the amendments which should be agreed upon, viz tice in place of justice-and to form a new govers
Messrs. Jackson of Boston, Wilde or Newbury- ment, on a plan altogether different from that
port, L. Lincoln of Worcester, Holmes of Roches- which is found in our present coostitution. The
ter, Woodbridge of Stockbridge, J. Davis of Bos- principle of senatorial representation had been cal-
ton, Nichols of South Reading, Dutton and Pres- led unjustly an aristocratical principle. There was
cott of Boston,
no such principle in the constitution. The people
Mr. WEBSTER, of Boston, moved that the a- only were regarded, iir every part of it. It was
bove mentioned committee sliould be instructed to formed at a time when it would be impossible that
take into consideration the tinie when the Consti- any such principle could have been introduced into
tution as amended shall go into effcct. Agreed to. it; when there was a greater hatred of tyranny and
Mr. FREEMAN, of Sandwich, offered a roso- unequal privileges than at any other; and by men
lution that it is expedient to make a provision in most attached to true republican principles. It was
the constitution; that no able-bodied citizen be- a truly republican constitution, and for that reason
tween the years of 18 and 45, shall be exempted he liked it. He had been a republican in the most
from military duty, or some equivalent therefor; gloomy times it was fashionable to be republican
Judges of tlie Supreine Couri, Ministers of the now, and he should not be disposed 10 desert ro-
Gospel and Quakers excepted.
publicanism at such a trifle. He considered the
Ordered, That the resolution be referred constitution of this cominonwealtlı, the purest and
to the select committee on the 4th resolution most perfect model of republican government that
which respects the Governour, Militia, &c.
ever existed on the face of the globe. There can-
not be found in any state; or in the world, a con-
81 to 33.
stitution so free and liberal as that of Massachu-
APPORTIONMENT OF THE SENATE, seits, which we now have, independent of any a-
On motion of Mr. PRESCOTT, the house went mendments which may be proposcu. He said that
into committee of the whole on the unfivislied bus: he had used the other day in very improper figure,
ness of yesterday, Mi Quincy in the chair.
when he called the senate the rich man's citadel.
The committee proceeded to the consideration It was no more the citadel of the rich tlian of thic
of the resolution under dicussion yestcrday for di:
poor man.
It was the only branch of the govern-
viding the commonwealth into districts for the nient which was particularly designed for the p!O-
choice of Senators according to population. tection of propertv ; and this protection was as im-
Mr. ABBOT; of Westford, rose to explain the portant for those who have little; as for those who
reasons of the vote he should give on the present have inuch. He proceeded to take a vkw of the
question. He was not unfriendly to the rights of constitution, as a mutual contract, by whicli those
the people, but he could not join in the tune whichi men who contributed most, ought to have the great-
had been so long sung in respect to them, the chorus est influence. He replied to some of the argu-
of which had been swelled so loud by other gen:le- ments of the gentleman from Worcester, (Mr. Lin-
men; he was not accustomed to such music. The
coln) yesterday. Mr. L. admitted that there ouglit tus
question was; whether a representation founded be a connection betwecn representation and taxa-
on property were just or not. It appeared to him tion, but that the principle did not require that
that when some men bring in mibre into the com- there should be any pinportion between them.--
mon stock of the community than others, they | Upon this principle all that was required in regard
qught to have a greater voice in the government. to the touins of Hull and Boston was, that cach
Ít was so in corporations generally; the greatest should have one representative. It was absurd to
contributors have a power in proportion, but with contend that the principle was adhered to, unless
some limitations. The gentleman from Worcester there was some proportion between their respect-
(Mr. Lincolu) had said that if the principle were ive taxes and representation. In reply to a remark
just, there should be no liinitation. He did not in relation to the revolution, Mr. B. said, that he
conceive sb. And iſ the principle of population was in an error in regard to the history of those
were taken, there would be the same reason for a times, iſ one representative in the British parija-
limitation ; otherwise, one county might increase meni would have satisfied the people of this com-
30 much as to have a majority in the Senate. It try. The gentleman had argued that governinent
was said by the gentleman froin Dartmouth (Mr. was founded on intelligence and not on property...
Slocum) tlat taxation and representation should go Mr. B. had thought that something furthér was
hand in hand. If so, and no one would question necessary, that virtue and morality were necessa-
it, then a county wiich pays more than another ry, and licsides, with all the intelligence, wisdon
sliould be entitled to a greaier representation. It and virtle in the universe, government could not
haci been stated that wealth had sin influence sufli- be supported without money The gentleman had
cient to protect itself; he would give it an influ- complained that the property of ai individual in
enee that should be legitimate, otherwisé it would the county of Berkshire had not the same influ-
exercise an illegitimate influence. Hc thouglit ence, as the same amount of property in Suffolk.
there was no danger from this representation. He This was not correct in point of fact. Any amount
had learned from the writings ofa venerable inem- of properiy in Berkshire or any other county counis
ber of the convention, that life and liberty and civil dollar för dollar for llie like around in Sufiolk-
riglits were as dear to the rich as to the poor, and ind this operation of the principle makes the sys-
this would be a check upon ihein. Gentlemen tem equal.
who knew him would do him the justice to believe MR. SALTOYŠTALL, of Salem; observed that
that he was not influenced by intcrested motives.
this convention exhibited a singular and most inter-
He could apply to bimself, what an eminent esting scene. A ſrce people by their delegates as-
inan in Great Britain had said before him, “ I have
sembled to deliberate upon the Constitution under
been compelled to study to live, not live to study.”
But he should vote against the present resolution,
which they have so long lived; inquiring into its
because he thought a representation of property quires amendment. It is a subject of gratitude thai
operations and whether there is ans evil that re.
was right.
while the nations of the old world are obliged to
Mr. BLAKE was most decidedly and uneguiro- submit to reformis, dictated by standing armies, ie
cally opposed to the proposition of the gentleman are witnessing this quict scene. But there is also
from Roxbury, because in his juicigment it would much cause of anxiciy--a short time since we were
have the effect to transforin the most beautiful ſea- all happy under the present constitution. There
ture of the constitution into a mass of deformity- was no symplom of uneasiness--110 project for iz
to introduce confusion, in place of order--inju3 con;ention. Our government secured to us all the
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
13S
objects.forwhich civil society.was instituted. The rale rights? There is nothing tangible in them,
separation of a part of the commonwealth ren- which can form a check, Mr. S. then wention
dered it. expedient to propose to the people the to show that there was no analogy between this
qaestion of a convention, and it was adopted by a plan and the Constitution of the United States, as
very sinall vote.--A fact which shows conclusively. || irad been argued by Mr. Lincoln. He thought
that'nn evil was pressing on the people that no the people would never adopt a system of checks
grievance loudly demanded a remedy. But now, by making different tenures ta office, or different
amidst constant professions of veneration for the qualifications to voters. Whiat then remains but
instrument, every part of it is attacked, and we to preserve the present basis; to cling to that
are called on to defend the elementary principles which has been so wise in theory and so sálu--
of governinent. First we abolish one session of
tary ia practice? It is an admirable provision-
the Legislature, which has existed for two cen- the représentation of a great interest and yet not
turies--we then dispense with the necessity of a dangerous to- any other. It is the result of a
declaration wbich lias existed from the beginning new modification which will give a spirit of in-
-We disown that the people ever enjoyed their dependence to the Senate, and make them in-!
rights in the election of Counsellors, and now the deed a check-not to. thwart tlie other branch,
foundation of a great branch of the government is | but to watch,--to cause deliberation Property
attacked, as anjust and aristocratic. Is the con- should be represented, because it is the greatestob.
stitution to be 'thiqun by as an old-fashioned piece ljectof civil society; it is not mere inert matter, but
of furniture, that answered well enough in its dày, a living principle, which keeps the gieat machine
but is now fit only to be stowed away in the lan- of society in motion. It is the universal stimulus.
ber-room with the portraits of our ancestors ? Let The principle of the Senate is not ulequal in its op-
us rather meet the objections, listeu to the argu- eration, but the saine every where--in all places.com
ments, correct the evil if one is shown to exist, 110for Suffolk or Essex-Essex has nothing to
and the constitution will come out of the fiery gain, bui inay loose much by this arrangement.
furnace unhurt-still more precious for the trial It is not for the rich--but for the security of all
it has endured. Mr. S. then observed, that he had men and all interests ; as it will make an effectual
not expected a serious attempt would be made to check for the preservation of every right. If in
change the basis of the Senate-that it had not theory this is wise, how much more valuable '
been a cause of dissatisfaction that nothing had is it after forty years, experience. Experiment is
been written or said against it until the separation worth every thiny upon this subject. "We should
of Maine ; that there was occasionally some difli- be unwilling to louch what is niade venerable by
culty as to the fractions, and some irritation in the age. We should cautiously advance any theory
formation of districts, but no serious disaffection; of our own, against i system that has been in
and he believed no objection was ever made to it operation half a century. The situation of Maso,
in the Legislature, as unjust or unequal. He had sachusetts is a proud one. She has braved the
thought also tliat the Constitution was endeared to storm whichi has overwhelmed so many old gová
the people from the circumstances under which it ernmeiits. They that laughed us to scorn are n
was inade in the midst of war; our independence looking to us with admiration, and studying our
not yet secure;. While our armies were yet in the systems. Mr. S. then referred to the difficulties
field. At such a time the Convention met, and in the committee-said he thought there ought
deliberately discussed the great principles of gov- not to be any limitation in the principle of the
ernment, and framed the present system of gov. Senate, so much was given up in the Ollier
ernment. There wero circumstances also calcula- | branch-that in theory there was nothing dan-
lated espocially to endear this part of the Consti- gerous in this principle, but that they did not come
tution to us. When the Convention assembled, a there to make a Constitution on strict theories,
but to inquire
thought the people needed no check ; like the gen- ticable. He also observed upon the plan of Mr.
tleman from Worcester, they thought the people || Lincoln, and pointed out its extreme inequality
were capable of self government. Îts analogy to upon the different parts of the Commonwealth.
the old Council had also a tendency to render it Mr. LOCKE, of Billerica, said it would seem
ódious it also savored a little ot aristocracy, and like presumption in him, after the eloquence and
the leaders of that day had been irritated under the ingenuity witfi, which the subject had been treat-
influence of the old government, yet they listened led, to attempt to add any thing to the force of
to the sages who wcie with them, and adopted the
the argument
He rose rather in deference to
principle. The present basis of the Senate is pera the wishes of some of his friends, than from
fcctly defensible in theory. Some check on the his own inclination. If he had any preposses-
popular branch is necessary-this is adınitted by sions when he came into the Convention, they
all. Mr. S. then referred to history—the English were in favour of adopting the principle of
parliament to the national assembly, &c. to population, as the basis of apportionment for
shew its necessity. There are times when popular the Senate. It at first seened from an indis-
ferments are excited that would destroy every tinct view somewhat unequal, that the more
thing fair and valuable in society, if unchecked. wealthy parts of the Commonwealth should have.
Mr. S. thien l'emarked on the different systems il greater representation in proportion to the
proposed. That by Mr. Dearborn would be no number of inhabitants, than the other parts.
check. Both branches will be chosen by the But further examination had satisfied bis mind
Sanic people in the same districts. Both would be fully, that the present system was not only best
subject to the same influence-be under the same in theory, but has decided advantages in its prac.
control, and the Senate would have no more lical operation. Alluding to the remarks oi the
operation as a check, then the same men in the gentleman lion Roxbury, he said, he professed
other branch. Another proposition is the novel, to have very little of that gentleman's learning
the fanciful, the fallacious one by the gentleman his reading had not been extensive, but wliat he
from Worcesters-which would have the Senate had read, had left it very distinct impression
shic popular branch, to be checked by the on bis mind, that the Constitution of this Com
House! A popular branch of thinly six to be monwealth liad extracted from the various forms
checked by three hundred and fifty ! But what of government, that bad been in operation m
j: to check the House ? That will be the popu- other countries, all that was thought to be ure-
lar branch, çmanating from the people, warned ful. There was retained in the executive de-
with all their passions. What are these corpo- partient something of the monarchal loumn ;-
17*
1
194
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
in the Senate the advantages of the aristocrat- with equal property, but with equal rights to ac.
*C, without its objections, and in the House of quire property. The great object is to render
Representatives more of the democratic princi-
property secure. Without the security of prop.
ple.. He argued that on the scheme of the erty, peither arts; nor manufactures, nor com.
gentleman from Roxbury, the advantages of a merce, nor literature, nor science can exist.
check of one branch upon another of the Leg- It is the foundation upon which civilization rests.
islature, the grand object of two branches, There would be no security for life and liberty
could not“; he attained. He proceeded to state even, if property were not secure. Society is a
the difficulties and embarrassnients, whicli the compact with every individual, that each may en
select committee had been obliged to conteud || joy his right for the common
joy his right for the common good. In the state of
with, in fixing upon any system of reduction for nature the Indian las na defence for his little hut,
the House of Representatives, which should be or his venison, or any thing that he acquires, : but
satisfactory to themselves, and which should be his own strength. Society furnishes the strength
acceptable to the people, and the principle on of the whole community, for the protection of the
which they had proceeded in adopting a system, property of each individual.
which; , while it took from the small towns the One of the inost difficult questions now to be
right of being annually represented, reserved to settled, is, in what manner the representation in
them an equivalent advantage. There would be the two branches of the Legislature, shall be or-
no cqnality in proposing a system which should ganized. If representation, founded on the basis
preseive to the şinallest toivn its right to a Re- of population, could proceed upon the principle of
presentative, while it gave to a town of twenty | every vote ſaving an equal righi throughout socie-
four hundred inhabitants no more, and to Bos- ly, I should agree to it. But this is impossible.--.
ton only one for four thousand inhabitants. He Every town cannot have a Representative, and
did not believe; that the gentleman from Wor- the representation be in proportion to the popula-
cester could have considered the plan proposed tion. Between the small towns of Hull, br Quin-
by hius, in its operations upon the large lowpis cy, and Boston, the inequality is so great, that
for, with his mural sense of justice, he would not a departure from the principle of population is
have proposed a plan of such inequality:
necessary. We must, therefore, get some prin-
Mr. LINCOLN rose io explain. He thought ciple of expediency: "I should be satisfied with,
it disingenuous in gentlemen, to allude to a pro- thie Constitution as it stands, if it were possible to
position which he had made without any con- retain it.
nexion with any other. This qụestion should The report of thiç select coinmittee is a com-
depend on its own merits, and the Convention
proinise, a mutual concession of various parts.-
may reject, or adopt, the proposition which he The large towns have made quite as great conces-
had presented. He did not contend that it was sions as any part of the country. Suffolk is to
just and equal in itself, but in connection with have but six Senators ; in proporiion to its prop-
the representation in the Senate, on the basis of crty it would have more. The eloqüent gentleman
valuation, it would forin an effectual, and the from Roxbury, has alluded, with propriety, to the
only eflectual, check.
ancient republics of Athens and Rome. My mem.
Mr. LOCKE proceeded to compare the three ory is too defective to go into details, but I appeal
systems of representation which had been pro- to his fresher reading, whether in Athens there
posed, and to argue in favour of the adoption were not infinitely greater advantages given to
of that reported by the committed. He said he
properiy, than among us. Aristides ruined the
understood, that some gentlemen approved of Constitution of Sabon, by destroying the balance
the plan proposed by the gentleman from Rox- between property and numbers, and, in conse-
bury for the Senate, and that they lionght it quence, a torrent of popular commotion broke i
fair to couple it with the House of Representa- and desolated the republic: Let us
Let us come to
tives, proposed in the system of the sclect con- Rome ; property was infinitely more regarded
mittee. To him it appeared manifestly anjust to than here, and it was only while the balance was
take this part of the system, without åt the same maintained, that the liberties of the people were
time adopting the part relating to the Senate preserved. Let us look at the subjeci in another
He observed, that some went ou the principle, point of vie iv. How many persons are there, even
that the Senate was founded on the basis of
in this country, who have no property ? Some
property This was not true.. The basis was think there 'are more without it, than with it. If
iaxation. The wealthy districts were allowed so, and it were left to nere sunbers, those who
a greater proportion of represontation in the have no property would vote us out of our houses.
Senate; not with a view to the protection of In France, at the time of the revolution, those
property, but because they were made to con- who were without property, were in the propor-
tribute so much to the support of the public tion of fifly to one. It was by destroying the
burdens, He concluded by giving his testimo- balance that the revolution was produced.-
ny to the fairness and liberality of the members The French revolution furnished an experiment,
of the cominitice from the largc towns, and their perfect and complete in all its stages and branches,
readiness to vield every thing that could be de- of the utility and excellence of universal suffrage.
manded in the spirit of fair and equal compro- The revolutionary goveroment began with the high-
mixe.
er orders of society, as they were called, viz.
Mr. ADAMS, of Quincy. I risc, with fear Dukes and Peers, Arch-bishops and Cardinals,
and trembliny, to say a few words on this ques- the greatest proprietoi's of land in the whole king.
tion. It is now forly years, since I have inter- dom. Unfortunately, the first order, although very
mingled in debate in any public assembly. My patriotic and sincere, adopted an opinion that the
memory and strength of utterance fail me, so sovereign power should be in one assenbly. They
that it is utterly impossible for me to discuss the were soon succeeded and supplanted-banisheit
subject on the broad ground, on which gentle- and guillotined, by a second order, and these in
men, who have spoken before me, have consid- their turn by a third, and these by a fourth, till the
ered' it. The Constitution declares, that all men government got into the bands of peasants and
are born free and equal. But low are they stage-players, and from thein descended to jaco.
born free and equal ? Has the child of a North bins, and froin them to the Sans-culottes. Robes
American Indian, when born, the same right, pierre who regularly descended step by step down
which his father lins, to his father's bow and ar- the whole length of the ladier, now found hinisell
Tous ? No--no man pretends that all arc born upon a level with Danton, who had been an Equer-
MAŞSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
135
dy in the royal stables, a man of strong mind.' A against the proposition before the Commitee.
rivalry commenced between these two for the favor Mr. PRESCOTT said he had been greatly sur-
of the Sens-culottes. Danton soon found that Robes- prised by the 'vote passed two days ago on this
pierre had a large majority; and in despair of his proposition, and he could oniy account for it on the
own life, broke out into this pathetic exclamation; supposition that the subject was not fully under-
they have driven us down to Sans-calottism, and stood. It had been permitted to pass to a vote
Sansóculottism has destroyed France-Sans-culot: without full discussion, under the inpression that
tism has ruined us all, and Sans-culottısm will very the whole report of the committee, the greater
soon destroy itself.” And thus it happened for the part of which had been adopted, without opposi-
heads of Robespierre and Danton both went off, || tion, would go together. The Convention had as-
and the colossal despotism of Napoleon sprung sembled to amend the Constitution, noi to form a
from the bloodand ashes of Sans-culottism and des- new one. The select committee in the perform-
olated France and all the rest of Europe. And ance of their duty, had confined themselves strict-
thus it has happened in all ages and countries in ly to this object. They proposed only such alter-
the world, where such principles have been adopt- ations as a change of circumstances had rendered
ed, and a similar course pursued. All writers necessary. But was the proposition on the table
agree, that there are twenty persons in Great offered in the spirit of amendinent ? Did it not go
Britain, who have no property, to one that has.- to change the fundamental principles of the Con-
If the radicals should succeed in obtaining univer- stitution ? Who could predict the consequences
sal suffrage, they will overturn the whole kingdom, | of changing the basis on which one of the depart-
and turn those who have property out of their ments of the goverment was founded-a system of
houses. The people in England in favor of univer- representation founded on equal justice-on equal
sal suffrage, are ruining themselves. Our ances. rights and on that spirit of compromise on which
tors have made a pecuniary qualification necessary alone government can be founded, and by which
for office, and necessary for electors; and all the alone defects can be amended. In every frame of
wise men of the world have agreed in the same government the rights of property as well as per-
thing. I consider the question of universal suf- sonal rights are provided for. Persons possessing
frage as connected with this relating to the Sen- property, enjoying the fruits of successful industry,
ate, and of more importance. If the principle of together with those who possess nothing, enter in-
population in apportioning Senators and Represen- to a compact to secure their rights both of proper-
tativos could be carried through, I should vote for ty, and of person. How is this compact to be form-
it. But, as it cannot, and as I consider the scheme ed, so that every one may be secure in his rights ?
proposed as equitable as any thing that can be in- Those who have property surrender up as much
vented, I shall be in favor of it, and shall, there- their personal rights as those who have none-
fore, not vote for the proposition of the gentleman they surrender also the control of their property,
from Roxbury.
and they should, in consequence, have a propor-
Mr. DANA, of Groton, said he should under- tion of influence in the government equivalent to
take to present the proposition before the commit- the rights they give up. Unless they have in some
tee in but a single point of view. He had had way a voice in the government by reason of their
when he came here, a strong impression that a property, they receive no equivalent for the rights
Senate, apportioned on the basis of population, wbich they surrender; and no security for that
might be organized, that would be not only equal, protection of property which is at the foundation of
but afford the necessary check upon the other government, and without which civilization would
branch he had intimated this opinion, without | go back. The systein adopted by our constitution,
pledging himself for his ultimate opinion-he had though perhaps not the most perfect in theory, is
voted for the proposition of the gentleman from most congenial to the habits of the people, other-
Roxbury. He had wished to have the scheme wise it would not have been adopted and so long,
developed, that it might be understood in its dif- approved. It was not congenial to the habits of
ferent bearings; and he was glad to hear the the people to demand a higher qualification for e-
proposition of the gentleman from Worcester. lectors for one branch of the legislature than for
He had meditated upon the three systems, and had the other-nor a higher qualificatiou of property
come to the conclusion, that as he who goes up in the persons elected. It was preferred to estab-
to the temple must go prepared to offer sacrifice, lish one branch of the legislature on the principle
it was proper for him, in this case, to give up of a just proportion between taxation and repre-
some portion of his private opinions, on the altar sentation. Is it unjust or wreasonable that the
of compromise. He had looked to the operation class of citizens who pay the greatest proportion
of the different systems and, on examination, had of taxes wherever they may be, shall be represent-
found one of them at least, so marked with in- ed in one branch of the government in soine pro-
equality and injustice, that no ingenuity could ad- portion to the taxes which they pay? It is not that
just, no ingenuity could apologize for it. The rich men shall carry niore votes to the poll, have
Convention had voted unanimously, early in the more power or a greater right to office; but it is,
session, that it was not expedient to change the that the number of Senator's coming from large
system of taxation which bad always been pursui- districts and chosen by the poor as well as the rich
ed in this Commonwealth. To retain tbis system, of those districts, shall be in proportion to the a-
and to come to the county of Suffolk and demand mount of taxes paid by the districts. It is not for
one fifth of the taxes of the Commonwealth, and the benefit of a few rich men that this provision is
to deprive it of its proportion of Representation in made, but for men of moderate property and for
the Senate, was a measure marked with so much all men who have property. The very rich, when
inequality, that as strong as his desire was to in- iheir property becomes insecure, may leave the
troduce an apportioument on population, he con country and carry their property with them. It is
sidered it as an impossibility. "Instead of thirty- notso with menof'moderate property.'They must stay
six, however, he should prefer returning to the by their country and protect its rights. But there
original number of forty Senators, distributing the was another principle whiclt rendered this provi-
four additional ones among the counties in the in- sion importantmihe necessity of rendering one
terior. With this amendment, together with a branch different from the othor, that they might
sinall alteration is relation to the House of Repre- mutually check each other He proceeded to ilo
sentatives, he should be satisfied with the report lustrate the nature and effect of this principle at
of the Committee. In order that they might pro- some length, and to enforce it, by the examples
ceed will that repart, he felt compelled to vote found in the constitution of the United States, and
136
136
MASSACHUSETYS CONVENTION,
1
in those of nearly all the states in the union. He he did not approve his whole plan. He would pro-
inquired what were the propositions now before vide the check in the other house-would choose
the convention. One to introduce universal suf- Senators in large districts, and the Representatives
frage; one to abolish all pecuniary qualification
by towns. This proposition came in the garb of
for office, and one to district' the state for both
one founded on equal rights. The present sena-
branches of the Legislature upon it new principle
tor's were to be displaced and others introduced on
and in a manner which should deprive them of ihe
the proportion of population. But what principle
power of being a check: 'upon one another. He
did he propose for the other house ?. It was hard-
begged gentlemen to pause and consider whether
ly possible to conceive one that should be more un-
this were the true work of amendment. · The pro-
equal. Every town, however small, was to have
position of tlie comunittee for organizing the House
one representative-towns of 3000 inhabitants to
of Representatives, must be considered in connec- have two-and of 6500 to have three. The whole
tion with that before the. House, relating to the number amounting' to 334. This plan was so gross-
Senate, and it was proper to consider also, the va-
ly unequal, that certain towns contaiving, balf the
rious propositions which had been made for ar-
population of the commonwealth, would choose
ranging the representation in both Houses, It had
three fourths of the representatives. 169 small
been well observed by the gentleman from Wor-
towns, containing 153,000 inhabitants, less than a
cester, that it was incumbent on any gentleman of-
third of the whole state, would choose 169 repre-
fering a proposition for amendment, to show that
sentatives, a majority of the whole house. . Thus
it was better than the provision of the present con-
the liberties of the majority would be put in sub-
stitution, and better than any other that should be
jection to the minority, in violation of the fundamená
proposed. It was, therefore, incumbent on the
tal principle of every free government. The laws
gentleman from Roxbury to show that his plan is
would be made by the representaiives of a minori-
better than that of the present constitution-better
ty of the people. It was thc principle of every free
than that of the select committee and better than
government ihát the majority should rule. Where
any other that has been suggested. What 'was
the laws are made by the minority, whether that:
this proposition ?-If examined it would be found
minority is one or a hundred, it is tyrauny, and the
wholly impracticable. The state was to be divided
laws so made are pot to be executed. Whether it
into thirty-five equal districts of about 13,000 iu-
is the senate of Rome or the emperor of France
habitants each, for the choioe of both Senators
and Representatives. Mr. P. appealed to gentle-
with his great officers of state, or a privileged num-
her among the people, it ceases to be a free gov-
men from Berkshire, from Essex, from Bristol, or
ernient. : Adopt this system, and this will be its
from any other part of the state, to say in what
operation. Call it by wliat name you willy, our
within
their own neighborhoods. He appealed to them
rights are gone, not for this day only, but for our
children after us. By this system, it is proposed
if it was not manifest from a moment's reflection
that 6000 inhabitants shall be required to give an
that these districts could not be formed in a satis-
factory manner. He alluded again to the objection | in a majority of the towns are to be on an average
additional representative, while the representatives
that on this system one branch would have no check
one for every 820 inhabitants. He examined alsa
upon the other. This system was formed somie-
the scheme proposed by the gentleinan from North-
thing upon the imodel of the constilution of Virgin-
ampton. This although liable to lewer objections
ia. That state is formed into twenty-four districts
than the other, he thought could not be admitted,
for the choice of members of both branches of the
because it would disturb the ancient rights and
legislature. He quoted from a bigb authority, Mr.
Jeferson in his notes on Virginia, a censure on
usages of the commonwealth., He proceeded to
examine in detail the plan of the committee. He
this system, and at the same time a eulogy on that
pointed out many of its features which ought to
of our own constitution, The Senate by its con-
reconcile it particularly to the sinall towns, and
stilution is top homogeneous with the house of de-
showed that it presented by far the fewest advan-
legates. Being chosen by the same electors, at
tages to the large towns. Oire important feature
the same time, and out of the sanie subjects, the
choice falls of course on men of the same descrip-
of the systen; was, that the representatives were to:-
be paid out of tlie public clest. This the public
tion. The purpose of establishing different houses
never would have consented to, and never ought
of legislation is to introduce the influence of differ-
to consent to, unless the number of representatives
ant interests or different principles." " In some
was reduced. This system presents to tlie small
of the American states, the delegates and senators
towns the advantages of having a representative
are so chosen as that the first represent the per-
every other ycar, to be paid out of the public treage
sons, and the second the properly of the state.-
ury, instead of a right to choose a representative
But with us, wealth and wisdom lave equal chance
every year, with an influence dimipished in pro-
for admission into both houses. We do not there-
portion to the numbers of the house, and with the
fore derive from the separation of our legislature
burden of paying him themselves. The town of
into two houses, those benefits which a proper com- Boston will send thirteen and pay for sixty. 12
plication of principles is capable of producing, and
necessary to make this system more acceptable to
those which alone can compensate the evils which
the small towns, he was willing to propose an a-
may be produced by their dissentions.” But the
niendnient, that on the year of a generpl valla-
precise system which this listinguished statesman,
tion, which recurs once in ten years, all turns.
speaking of the constitution of his own state con- should be represented and paid out of the public
demus, the gentlemav liom Roxbury woulil intro-
treasury.
duce into this commonwealth in exchange for one
aria;ıcd to the habits of our people, which was ap- Mr. STORY--We are at length arrived at the
proved by the framers of our constitution, and al- discussion of those questions, which it was easy to
ti'r the experience of forty years, has been found foresce would be attended witn the miosi serious
to be attended with no inconveniences, and in par- interest and difficulty-questions, which indeed,
ticular instances to have possessed positive advan- were the principal causes of assembling this con-
tages. He proceeded to cxamine the proposition vention. Nor do I regret it. I he great powers of
of Mr. Lincoln. He understood that gentleman to eloquence and argumentation, which bave already
admut that a check of one branch upon the other been displayed in the debate, I trust will do good
was essential to the preservation of a free govern- herc, and ultimately reach the homes of our con-
Bent, and that because the proposition ofllic gen- stituents. I cannot hope, after the very aniple dis..
lenian frou Riuxl: :!'y did not proside this chock, cussion, which the subject has uudergone, to adel
!
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1 1362
1
Source,
peak
chy of
much to the arguments, and shall content myself is fenced in by hereditary titles, by entails and by
with such illustrations of my views as have not permanent elevation to the highest offices. Here
been completely presented by others.
there is a gradation of property from the highest to
If it were necessary for my purpose, I might say, the lowest and all feel an equal interest in its preser.
with the gentleman from Worcester, tbat I come vation. If upon the principle of valuation the rich
here plodged to no man or set of men, or to any man in a district, which pays a high tax, votes for a
settled course of measures. I come merely as the larger number of senators the poor man in the same
delegate of one town to co-operate with other gen- district enjoys the same distinction. There is not
riemen, the delegates of other towns,in such meas. then a conflict, but a harmony of interests between
ures, as the public good may requiré, and in their them; nor under the present constitution has any
wisdom and discretion I place entire confidence.- discontent or grievance been seriously felt from this
I might add also what my eloquent collengue has
already remarked, that upon this particular topic When I look round and consider the blessings,
and upon the grounds which we take, we are not wlich property bestows, I cannot persuade myself
in a situation even to be suspected of interested that gentlemen are serious in their views, that it
motives. The county of Essex is safe at present, does not deserve our utmost protection. I do not
and would have a fair and equal representation in here speak. of your opulent and munificeent citi-
the Senate, whether the principle of population or zens, whose wealth has spread itself into a thous-
valuation were adopted as a basis. But if popula- and channels of charity and public benevolence. I
Lion were assumed as a basis, and no restriction speak not of those who rear temples to the service
were interposed, it is highly probable that the of the most high God. I speak not of those who
county of Essex might hereafter be a loser; but build your hospitals, where want, and misery, and
upon the principle of valuation it could never be a sickness; the lame, the balt and the blind, the af-
gainer,since it would now have the whole number flicted in body and in spirit may find a refuge from
to which it could ever be entitled. But I throw a- their evils, and the voice of solace and consolation,
way all narrow considerations of this kind, and administering food and medicine and kindness,
consider myself as a delegate of the commonwealth speak not of those, who build asylumns for the in-
bound to consult for the interests of the whole- sape, for the ruins of noble miods, for the broken
and to form such a constitution as shall best pro- || 'hearted, and the melancholy, for those whom Pro-
mote the interest of our children and all posterity. vidence has afflicted with the greatest of calaini-
It is necessary for us for a moment io look at ties, the loss of reason, and 100 often the loss of
what is the true state of the question now before happiness within whose walls the screams of t)
us. The proposition of my friend from Roxbury, maniac may die away in peace, and the sighs,
of
is to make population the basis for apportioning the the wretched be soothed into tranquillity. 1'
Senate, and this proposition is to be followed up,
not of these, not because they are not wor
-a9 the gentleman, with the candor and frankness, all praise ; but because I would dwell ra
which has always marked his character, bas inti- those general blessings, which prosperity diffuse:
her on
mated—with another to apportion the House of through the whole mass of the communi
Representatives in the same manner. The plan is is there that has not a friend or relative iu distress,
dy. Who
certainly entitled to the praise of consistency and looking up to him for assistance? Who is there
uniformity. It does noi assume in one house a that is not called upon to administer
to the sick,
principle which it deserts in another. Those who and the suffering, to those who are ji
d the depth of
contend on the other hand, for the basis of valua- poverty and distress, to those of his
tion, propose nothing new, but stand upon the let- or to the stranger beside the gate The circle of
own housebold,
ter and spirit of the present constitution.
kindness cominences with the )
Here then there is no attempt to introduce a tends wider and wider as we ry
Jumblest, and ex-
new principle in favor of wealth into the constitu- l society, each person administering in his own way
se to the highest in
tion. There is no attempt to discriminate between to the wants of those around
him. It is thus that
the poor and the rich. There is no attempt to raise property becomes the source
of comforts of every
the pecuniary qualifications of the eleetors or elect- kind, and dispenses its bless
ed-to give to the rich man two votes and to the this way it conduces to the
ings in every form. In
poor man but one. The qualifications are to re- ing private happiness; a ad every man from the
public good by promot-
main as before, and the rich and the poor, and the humblest, possessing property, to the highest in
high and the low are to meet at the polls upon the the state, contributes hi
saine level of equality :--and yet much has been in- mass of comfort, The
sproportion to the general
man without any property
troduced into the debate about the riglats of the may desire to do the
rich and the poor, and the oppression of the one by shut out from this
same ; but he is necessarily
the elevation of the other. This distinction be-
in this view that I consider property as the source
Most interesting charity. It is
tween the rich and poor, I must be permitted to of all the comfort
s and advantages we enjoy, no
say, is an odious distinction, and not founded in the
every man, from
morits of the case before us. I agree that the poor
him who possesses but a single
dollar up to hir
a who possesses the greatest for-
man is not to be deprived of his rights any more tune, is equally interested in its security and its pre-
than the rich man, nor have I as yet heard of any servation. G
Ternment indeed stands on a com-
proposition to that effect; and if it should come, I bination of ii
aterests and circumstances. It must
should feel myself bound to resist it. The poor man always be a question of the highest moment, how
ought to be protected in his rights, not merely of the propers y holding part of the community may
life and liberty, but of his scauty and hard earn- be sustain
ed against the inroads of poverty and
ings. I do not deny that the poor man may pos-
vice. Po
verty leads to temptation and temptation
sess as much patriotisın as the rich; but it is un- often leads to vice, and vice to military despotisın.
just to sappose that he necessarily possesses more. The ri:
ghts of man are never heard in a despot's
Patriotisin and poverty do not necessarily march
palaee
The very rich man, whose estate consists in
hand in hand, nor is wealth that monster, which
some imaginations have depicted, with a heart of Ayin & for refuge to some foreign land-But the
perso nal property may escape from such evils hy
adamant, and a sceptre of iron, surrounded with
har
dy yeoman, the owner of a few acres of the
scorpions, stinging every one within its reach, and soi
d, and supported by it, cannot leave bis home
planting its feet of oppression upon the needy and
Without becoming a wanderer on the face of the
the dependent. Such a representation is not just earth. In the preservation of property and virtue,
with reference to our country. There is no class
pe has therefore, the deepest and most permanent
of very rich men in this happy land, whose wealth
interest.
1
1
18
1365.
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
One wave
is su
Gentlenen 'hàveargued as it personal rights only » Senate founded. on valuation, is not a representa,
were the proper objects of government. But tion of property in the abstract,
It.. gives no
what, I would ask, is life worth, if a man cannot greater power in any district to the rich thanto the
eat in security the bread, earned by his own in- poor. The poor voters in Suffolk may, if they
dustry. If he is not permitted to transmit to his please, elect six Senators into the Senate ;
children the little inlieritance which his affection and so throughout the Commonwealth, the
has destined for their use ? What enables us to Senators of every other district may, in like
diffuse education among all the classes of society, manner, be chosen by the saine class of voters.
but property? Are not our public schools, the. The basis of valuation was undoubtedly adop-
distinglitshing blessing of our land, gustained by its ted by the frạniers of our Constitution, with
patronage? I will say no more about the rich reference to a just system of checks and balances,
and the poor. There is no parallel to be run be- and the principles of rational liberty, Representa-
tween them, founded on perinänent constitutional tion and taxation was the doctrine of those days
distinctions. The rich help the poor, and the a doctrine for which our fathers fought and bled,
poor in turn administer to the rich. In our coun- in the battles of the revolution. Upon the basis of
try, the highest man is not above the people ; the valuation, property is not directly represented; but
humblest is not below the people. If the vich may property in the aggregate, combined with personal
be said to have additional protection, they have rights where the greatest burthen of taxation falls,
not additional power the Nor does wealth here form there the largest representationis apportioned; but
a permanent distinction of families. Those who still the choice depends upon the will of the
are wealthy to-day pass to the tomb, and their majority of voters, and not
upon thật of
children divide their estates. Property thus is di- the wealthier class within the district. Tliere is a
vided quite as fast as it accumulates. No family peculiar beauty in our system of taxation and equal-
can, without its own exertions, stand erect for a izing the public hurthens., Our Governor, Coun-
long time under our statute of descents and distri- sellors, Senators, Judges and cther public officers
butions, the only true and legitimate agrarian are paid out of the public treasury ;-Our Repre-
Jaw. It silently and quietly dissolves the mass sentatives by their respective towns. The former
heaped up by the toil and diligence of a long life are officers for the benefit of the whole Common-
of enterprise and industry. Property is continual- wealth; but the right of sending representatives is
ly changing like the waves of the sea.
a privilege'granted to corporations, and, as the
rises and is soon swallowed up in the vast abyss more immediate agents of such corporations, they
Vd seen no more. Another rises, and having are paid by them. The travel however of the Rep-
ched its destined liniits, falls gently a way, and resentatives is paid out of the public treasury, with
rea
cceeded by yot another, which, in its turn, the view that no unjust advantage should arise 10
break and dies away silently on the shore. The any part ofthe Conimonwealth from its greater
richest
wan among us, may be brought down 10 proximity to the capital. Thus the principle of
the huni.
siėsi leret; and the child with scarcely equalizing burtlens is exemplified. But even if
clothes to
cover his nakedness, may rise to the it were true that the representation in the Senate"
ce in our government. And the poor
highest ofti
were founded on property, I would respectfully ask
he rocks Iris infant on bis knees may gentlemen, if its natural influence would be weak-
man, while
the consolation, that if he possess
justly indulgi. Frue, there is no
ened or destroyed by assuosing the basis of popula-
office beyond
talents and ris
tion. I presume not-It would still be left to exert
his honorable ambitiou. that influence over friends and dependants in the
the reach
It is a mistaken
theory, that government is found. same manner that it now does; so that the change
ed for one ohject only. It is organized for the would not in the slightest degree aid the asserted:
protection of life, liberty and property, and all the object, I mean the suppression of the supposed pre-
comforts of socicty:
to indulge in dominating authority of wealth.
our domestic affectic ins, and quietly to enjoy our Gentlemen have argued, as though it was univer-
les.
sally conceded as a political axion, that population
homes and our firesic.
is in all cases and under all circumstances the
It has been said, tha
t the Senate, under the
safest and best basisot representation. I beg leave
founded on the basis of
preseit Constitution, is .
to doubt the proposition. Cases may be easily sup-
to be incorrect. It is il posed, in which, froin the peculiar state of society,
property. This I take
xation. It gives 110 par.
founded on the basis of ta.
such a basis would be universally cleemed unsale
tiçular privileges to the rica !; all have cqual rights
all have cqual rights and injurious. Take a state where the population
secured by it. The gentlem.
is such, as that of Manchester in England, (and
shew the injustice and incqu. ality of the present some states in our Union have not so large a pop-
: reference to the
system, has alarmed us with a
ulation) where there are five or ten thousand
five of the rich-
9,
town hull. Suppose, said li
wealthy persons, and 90 or 100.000 of artizans re-
*€ to Hull, that re-
ést men in:Boston should lemos
duoed to a state of vice and poverty and avretched-
siir senators. Isa
moval would enable Hull to have
ness, which leave them exposed to the most dan-
Does it c011-
this the case ? Is Hull a county :
gerous political excitemenis. I speak of them, noe
; the proper
slitute a Senatorial district ? No
as I know, but as the language of British statesvien
be transfers
ty thus carried from Suffolk, woul
and parliamentary proceedings exhibit them. Who
I would in.
red to the county of. Plymouth, inc.
would founda representation on such a population,
tv propor-
crease the representation of that cou
unless he intended all property should be a booty
luation. 11
tionally in the Sepaie under a new via
to be divided anong plunderers ? A different stale
23.5 should
instead of going to Hull the same perse
of things exists in our happy Commonwealuli, and
l'emove to Salem,tlieir property would no.
produce no such dangers will here arise from assuming
the slighest clfect, for Essex, without it, i
population as thc basis of representation. But still
lion al-
the doctrine in the latitude now contended for, ia
a right to as many Senators as the Constitu
lows to any district. The case supposed to the not well founded, What should be tlie basis on
gentleman is so extreme, that it could scarci l be which representation should be founded, is not
nse-
supposed to exist; and if it did, no such
an abstract theoretical question, but depends upon
quences could arise as have been stated.
the habits, manners, character and institutions of
It has been also suggested, that great proper
ty, the people, who are to be represented. It is a ques.
afitself, gives great influence, and that it is una tion of political policy, which cvery nation must
cessary that the Constitution should secure to il decide for itsell, with reference to its own wants.
and circumstances.
inore. I have already stated what I conceive 10
be the true answer".; that a representation in thic The bentleinan from Worcester has asserted
OL
Ossesses
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1360
that intelligence is the foundation of government. me that the system of the select committee com-
Are not virtue and morality equally so? Intelli- biving valuation as the basis of the Senate; with
gence without viriue is the enemy most to be dread. corporate representation of the towns as the basis
öd by every government. It might make men des- of the House, has both as a system of checks and
- pots, or bandits, or murderers, in their interests. balances, and convenient and practical distribution
pointed in sucli directioňs. While therefore it may of powers; some advantanges over that now under
be admitted that intelligence is necessary for a free discussion.
people, it is not less true that sound morals and It has been said that the system of valuation is
religion are also necessary. Where there is not novel and cannot be traced beyond the era of the
private virtue, there cannot be public security, and formation of our present constitution. It may be
happiness.
số; though the venerable gentleman from Quincy
The proposition of the gentleman from Roxbury has endeavored to show that it is in principle as
it to assume population for the basis of both houses. old as the republics of Greece and Ronie. But be
That of the gentleman from Worcester is to assume it novel ; it is no objection to it. Our whole system
population for the Senate and corporate représen-, of government is novel. It is a great experiment
tation for the House. The latter gentleman wishes in the science of politics. The very, principle of
his last proposition to be considered distinctly representation and the tlieory of a division of pow-
from the first. It miglit suit the purposes of the ers is of modern origin, as are many of our dearest
gentleman's argument so to separate them; but in and most valuable institutions.
the nature of things, with reference to the doctrine It is asked too, why, if the principle of valuation
of checks and balances, avowed and supported by be a just one, there is a restriction that no district
the gentleman himself,they are inseparable. I feel shall send inore than six Senators. A sufficient
myself constrained so to consider them, as parts of reason has been already given-that it was a com-
a system, the value of which must be ascertained proinise to sílence any jealousy of an undue exer-
by examining the effects of the whole combination. cise of power by any particular district abounding
I am not opposed in principle to population as a in wealth. My answer is, that it is also for the
basis of representation. There is miicli to reconi- purpose of eğrializing the fractians of the smaller
mend it. It has simplicity and uniformity and ex- districts with the great districts. The same prin-
emption froin fraud in its application; circumstances. Il ciple of equalization had been provided in forming
of vast importance in every practical system of gov- the House of Representatives and was now more
ernment. “In tlie Select Committee, I was in favor cowpletely observed in the system of the select
of a plan of representation in the House founded cominiitee.
on population, as the niost just and eqnial m its op- After all, what will be the effect of changing the
eration. I still retain that opinion. There were basis of the Senate from valuation to that of popu-
serious objections against this system, and it was lation? It will take three Senators from Suffolk,
believed by others that the towns could not be give two niore Senators to the old county of
brought to consent to yield up the corporate privi- || Hainpshire, leaving Berkshire and Plymouth to
leges of representation, which had been enjoyed so struggle for one more, and Norfolk and Bristol to
lung, and were so intimately connected with their contend for another, the disposition of which may
pride and their interests. I felt constrained there. be doubtful. All the rest of the Cominonwealth
fore with great reluctance to yield up a favorite will l'emain precisely in the same situation, wheth-
plan. I have lived long enough to know that in any er we adopt the one basis or the other. Yet even
question of government, something is to be yielded this change will not produce any serious practical
lip on all sides. Conciliation and compromise lie result, if we look forward 20 years. Suffolks has
at the origin of every frec government; and the increased within the last ten years, ten thousand in
question never was and never can be what is abso- the number of its inhabitants, that is to say, one
lutely best, but what is relatively wise, just and ex- quarter part of its population; a much greater ratio
pedient. I have not hesitated therefore to support of increase than the rest of the state. Populatiou
the plan of the select committee as one that on the will probably from the like causes continue to in-
whole, was the best that, under existing circum- crcase on the seaboard, or at least in the capital,
stances could be obtained
from its great attractions, in a ratio quite as great
To the plan of the gentlemin from Roxbury two beyond that of the interior. So that in a short
objections existed. The first was, that it destroyed time the difference of the cwo systems will be
the system of checks and balances in the govern- grcatly diminished, and perhaps finally the inland
ment, a system which has been approved by the counties will gain more by the restriction of the
wisdom of ages. The value of this system has districts to six Senators than they will vow gain by
been forcibly illustrated by the gentleinan from the basis of population. In fifty years Suffolk upon
Boston,
in the extrace wliich he read from the re- this basis may entille itself not to six only, but to
marks of Mr. Jefferson on the constitution of Vir- cight.
ginia. I will not therefore dwell on this objection. Now I would beg. gentlemen to consider, iſ in this
The next objection is tliat it destroys all county view of the subject in change in the basis of tbę
lines and distinctions and breaks all habits and asso- Senate can be usctul? The constitution has gone
ciations connected with them. They might thus be through a trial of 40 years in times of great difficulty
broken up, but it was by tearing asunder some of and danger. It has passed through the embarrass-
the strongest bonds of society. The people of ments of the revolutionary war, through the troubles
each county are drawn together by their vecessary and discontents of '87 and 38, through collisions of
attendance upon the county courts, and by their parties inexampled in our history for violence and
countv interests and associations. There is a com zeal, through a second war marked with no ordi-
mon iceling diffused among the iness of the popula- narysccncs of division and danger, and it has come
tion, which extends to, but never passes the bound- out of these trials pure and bright and spotless,
ary of each county; and thus these communities No practical inconvenience lias been felt or at-
become minor staies. These are valuable associ- tenipted to be pointed out by any gentleman in the
ations, and I am not prepared to say that they ought present system, during this long period. Is it then
to be given up allogether. The systein of the gen- wise, or just, or politic to exchange the results of
man from Roxbury, however, not only obliterates our own experience, for any theory however plau-
them; but at the same line is supposed to affect sible, that stands opposed to that experience,
the interests and corporate representation of the theory, that possibly may do as well?
Townsa representation which with all its incon- A few words as to the proposition of the gentle.
veniences, possesses intrinsic value. It appears 10 nan frem Worcester för representation in Hie
for &
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
Thé gen-
2
House. It seems to me I hope the gentleman representative. And: upon this plan the whole
will pardon the expression -inconsistent not only number of representatives will be 334. There are
with his own doctrine as to the basis of population, but 24 towns, which would be entitled to send
but inconsistent with the reasoning, by which he more than one represontative. These 24 towns
endeavoured to sustain that doctrine.
with a population of 146,000 would send 58 repre-
tleman considers population as the only just basis sentatives or only one upon an average for every:
of representation in the Senate. Why then, I ask, 2526 inhabitants, while the remaining 274 towns
is it not as just as the basis for the House ? Here with a population of 313,000 would send 274 rep-
the gentleman deserts his favorite principle, and in- resentatives, or one for every, 1144 inhabitants. "I
sists on representation of towns, as corporations. lay not the venue here or there in the common-
He alleges that in this way the system of checks
wealth, in the county of Worcester or the county
and balances, (which the gentleman approves) is of Essex; but such would be the result throughout
supported. But it seems to me that it has not any the whole commonwealth taken in the aggregate
merit as a check; for the aggregate population of of its population.. Salèm would send one repre-
the county will express generally the same voice as sentative for every 3130 inhabitants and Bostop
the aggregate representatives of the towns. The
one for every 4200 inbabitants, while every town
gentloman has said that the poor man in Berkshire
but the 24 largest would send one for every 1144
votes only for two Senators, while the poor man inhabitants! What then becomes of the favorite
in Suffolk votes for six, Is there not the same doctrine of the basis of population ? I would ask
objection against the system of representation the gentleman in his own emphatic language, is
now existing as
as to the house, and against not this system unjust, unequal and cruel? If it be
that proposed by the gentleman himself? A equal, it is so by some political arithmetic, which
voter in Chelsea now votes for but one represen- I have never learned and am incapable of com-
tative, while his neighbor a voter in Charlestown
prehending.
votes for six. Upon the gentleman's own plan
there would be a like inequality. He presses us A few words upon the plan of the select com-
also in reference to his plan of representation in mittee, and I have done. Sir, I am not entitled to any
the House, with the argument, that it is not une- of the merit,if there be any in that plan. My own
qual because we are represented, if we have a was to preserve the present basis of the senate,
single representative ; and he says he distinguishes not because I placed any peculiar stress on the
between the right to send one and to send many basis of valuation ; but because I deemed it all-
representatives. The former is vital to a free gov- important to retain some element that might main-
ernment--the latter not. One representative in tain a salutary check between the two houses.-
the British Parliament would have probably pre- My own plan for the house of representatives was
vented the American Revolution, Be it so. But representation founded on the basis of population
if the doctrine be sound, does it not plainly apply in districts, according to the system proposed by
as well to the Senate as the House ? If it be not the gentleman from Northampton. Finding that
unequal or unjust in the House, how can it be so in this plan was not acceptable to a majority of the
the Senate? Is not Berkshire with its two Sena-
committee I acquiesced in the plan reported by
tors, and Barnstable with its one Senator, and it. I have learned that we must not in questions
Worcester with its four Senators, upon this princi- of government, sta.d upon abstract principles' ;
ple just as fully represented in the Senate as-Suf- but must content ourselves with practicable good.
folk with its six Senators? The argument of the l I do not pretend to think, nor do any of its advo-
gentleman may therefore be thrown back upon cates think, that the system of the select committee
himself,
is perfect;' but it will cure some defects in our
The gentleman from Worcester has illustrated present system which are of great and increasing
bis views by a reference to the structure of the two importance. I lave always viewed the represen-
houses under the constitution of the United States; tation in the house under the present constitution,
and he conceives the senate of the United States as a most serious evil, and alarming to the future
as analagous to his system of representation in our peace and happiness of the state. My dread has
house-a representation of corporations. It cer- never been of the senate, but of that multitudi-
tainly bears no analogy to his basis of representa- nous assembly, which has been seen within these
tion for the senate. I take it that the senate of walls, and may again be seen if times of political
the United States is a representation of sovereign- excitenient should occur. The more numerous
ties, co-ordinate and coequal,and in no respectlike the body the greater the danger from its move-
system' either of the house or senate; for lei- ments in times, when it cannot or will not delibe-
ther towns nor districts have an equal representation rate. I came here therefore willing and ready to
there, for the reason that they are not independent make sacrifices ta accomplish an essential reduction
sovereignties. But when we come to the house in that body. It was the only subject relative to
of representatives of the United States, which is the constitution on which I have always had a de-
founded on the basis of population, we find that it cided and earnest opinion It was my fortune for
is accompanied with another principle, that repre- some years to have a seat in our house of repre-
sentation and direct taxation shall be apportioned sentatives; and for a short time to preside
according to population. Not that population over its sittings, at a period when it was most nu-
alone shall be the basis; but that they who enjoy merous, and under the most powerful excitements.
the right shall also bear the burthen, I have no oba I am sorry to say it, but such is my opinion, that in
jection to adopting this principle here. Let Wor- no proper sense could it be called a deliberative
cester send her sıx senators, and Berkshire three ; l assembly. From the excess of numbers delibera-
and let then consent also to bear a proportionable tion became almost impossible; and but for the
share of the public taxes; and then and then only good sense and discretion of those who usually led
will there be a well founded analogy to the con- in the debates, it would have been impracticable
stitution of the United States. I thank the gentle- to have transacted business with any thing like ac-
man for his illustration--an argument more perti-l curacy or safety. That serious public mischiefs
nent for my purpose could not have been found, did not arise from the necessary harry and difficulty
I beg however for a moment to ask the atten. of the legislative business is to be accounted for
tion of the committee to the gross inequalities of only froin the mutual forbearance and kindness, qf
the plan of the gentleman from Worcester respect- those who enjoyed the confidence of the respective
ing the house of Representatives. There are 298 parties. If the state should go on in its population
towns in the State, each of which is to send one we might hereafter have 800 or 300 representas
:
our
+
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
i
137
1
4 A
17
tives according to the present system; and in times not be of great importance, for they are far on
of public discontent, all the barriers of legislation their way to their final repose ; they have little to
may be broken down and the government itself be hopa of future eminence, and are fast approaching
subverted. I wish most. deeply and earrestly to the period when the things of this world will fade
preserve to my native-stale a deliberative legislature, away. But we have youth, who are jnst springing
where the sound judgment, and discretion, and into life- --we have children whom we love and
sagacity of its best citizens may be felt and heard | families, in wliose welfare we feel the deepest in-
and understood at all times and under all-circum- terest. In the oame of Heaven let us not leave to
stances, I should feel the liberties of the state them the bitter inheritance of our contentions.
secure, if this point were once fairly gained. I Let us not transmit to them enmities which may
would yield up the little privileges of my own town sadden the whole of their lives, Let us not like
and of any others, that our children máy enjoy him of old, blind and smitten of his strength-in our
civil,religious aud political liberty, as perfectly, nay anger seize upon the pillars of the constitution,
more perfectly than their fathers With these that we and our enemies may perish in their down-
views I am ready to support the report of the fall-I would rather approach the altar of the con-
select committee--not in part, but as a whole--as stitution and pay my devotions there, and if our
a system-apd if part is to be rejected I do not liberties must be destroyed, I, for one, would be
feel myself bound to sustain the rest. Indeed upon ready to perish there in defending them.
no other ground thap a great diminution of the Mr CHILDS moved that the committee should
bouse of representatives can I ever consent to pay rise and report progress. The motion was vega.
the members out of the public treasury. For this tived.
is now the only efficient check against an over- Mr. CHILDS then rose to address the cominit-
whelming representation. By the plan of the tee in favour of the resolutions ; but it being inti-
select committee the small.cowns are great gainers i mated that he was indisposed, he gave way to a
-a sacrificcis made by the large towns and by them renewal of the motion that the committee should
only. They will bear a heavier portion of the pay rise.
of the representatives, and they will have a less The committee rose, reported progress and had
proportionate representation than they now pos leave to sit again.
sess. And what do they gain in return ? I may
And the House adjourned.
say nothing. All that is gained is public gain, a
really deliberative legislature, and a representation
in the senate, which is in fact a popular represen-
FRIDAY, DEC. 15.
tation, emanating from and returning to the peo- The House met at-So'clock, and attended prayers
ple, but so constructed that it operates as a useful offered by the Rev. Mr. Jenks; after which the
check upon undue legislation and as a security to journal of yesterday was read.
property
APPORTIONMENT OF THE SENATE.
I hope that this system will be adopted by a large On motion of Mr. WEBSTER, the house went
majority, because it can scarcely otherwise re. into committee of the whole, on the unfinished bu-
ceive the approbation of the people, I do not siness of yesterday, Mr. Quincy in the chair.
know,that it is even desirable, that the people should, The question before the Committee was upon
nay, I might go further, and say that the people Mr. Dearborn's resolution for dividing the Com-
ought not to, adopt any amendment which comes monwealth into districts for the choice of Senators
recommepded by a bare majority of this conven- according to population.
tion. If we are so little agreed among ourselves, Mr. CHILDS, .of Pittsfield, said that for the in.
as to what will be for the future public good, we dulgence shewn to him yesterday by the commit-
had much better live under the present constituie tee, he felt very grateful, and in return, he should
tion, which has all our experience in its favor. Is trespass but a short time on their patience. Had
any gentleman bold enough to hazard the assertion, the subject been treated in the manner in which
that any new measure we may adopt can be more le viewed it, he should not have risen. He had
successful ?--I beg gentlemen to consider too no expectation of distinguishing himself as a public
what will be the effect if the amendments we now speaker, his course of life was in a different direc-
propose should be rejected by the people, having tion; but he felt it to be his duty to his constituents
passed by a scanty majority. Weshall then revert and-10 himself, not to give a silent vote on the pre-
io the old Constitution--and new parties, embit- sent occasion. Mr. C. first considered the object
tered by new feuds, or elated by victory, will be and design and nature of governments, and said
formed in the state and distinguished as constitu- that though the subject had been profoundly dis-
tionalists and anti-constitutionalists; and thus new cussed, the distinction between governments at
discontents and struggles for a new convention different times had not been well kept up. Gov-
will agitate the Commonwealth. The revival of ernments should conform to the state of society in
party aniņosities in any shape, is most deeply to any people. He took a view of the different kinds
be deprecated. Who does not recollect with re- of government in Europe, and the institutions and
gret the violence with which party spirit in times opinions which had grown out of them, and inter-
past raged in thiskiate, breaking asunder the ties red that all calculations made in reference to them
of friçndship and consanguinity ?- was myself were inapplicable to this country. He then came
called upon to take an active part in the public. to our own government. Our lorefather's came
scenes of those days. I do not regret the course over bere, a band of brothers, with equal riglies--
which my judgment then led me to adopt; but I ät puie democracy, with no disposition to set orie
never can recollect, without the most profound class of men above another--all engaged in tlie
melancholy, how often I have been compelled to same noble cause, to establish liberty of conscience
meet, I will not say the evil but vrerteil eyes, and and a free governinent. Our governnient was
the hostile opposition of men with whoni, under founded on intelligence and morality. Never in
other circumstances, I should bare rejoiced to any country was so fair an experiment made, to
have inet in the warinth of friendship. Ii new par- test the power of the people to govern.thenswives.
ties are to arise, ney animosities will grow up, and What was necessary to make this experiment suc-
stimulate new resentments. To the aged in this cessiul?'. To make the division which now exists,
convention, who now how down under the weight of the Executive, Legislative and Judicial departa
of years, this can, of course, be of but little conse- ments ; thus forming a beautiful synuncury nerer
quence--for they must soou pass into the tranquil- before' known in any government. They also di-
lity of the tomb;-10 thuse of middle lite it will viiled lip Legislative department into two assemta
1
1
198
i
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
1
A
blies, not to establish an aristocracy, but, as the sun in the firmament would the experiment be less
gentleman from Boston had-well observed, to con- successful? The gentleman from Quincy: justifies
stitute a Senate to reconsider what might have pas- the principle in connection with the house of reprex
sed through the other house too hastily. Not that sentatives, on the ground of its being a compro-
he would have them constituted exactly alike. He mise. He was of a different opinion. It was not
knew no better system than the present of having | in the power of any delegate tä give up any righu
one branch elécted from large districts, and the of his town. Make a just system, and no compro
other from small ones: Experiment had shewn mise would be necessáry: The house of represent
that in this manner men had been elected well tatives stood on its own bottom. He was not boun
qualified to fill the different offices with dignity to go into an explanation-now, of the course he
Mr. C. then came to the principle of apportionment should be in favor of in respect to tlie House of ..
of the Senate according to valuation. He asked, resentatives. In that branch' there had been
was the Senate the rich man's citadel ?. The pre- popular representation hitherto, and probably
sent principle had been in operation for forty years, would be. In no other state except New-Hanopi
and what was the practical operation ?. It turns shire, was this principle of valuation recognized
out that it is nothing more, than that the whole There are checks-different modes of electjent
state has been represented in the same manner.it different qualifications of electors and elected-
would have been on the principle of population, different duration in office. He sbould agree that
except that the county of Suffolk has had four more the senators be chosen for two, three or four yeays
senators than it would have had on that principle.} or to the distinctions above: mentioned, if necessa
He appealed to the good sense and candor of the ry, and then we should have a check in reality
committee whether this was any check, if a check. The county of Suffolk only was now represented
was wanted. Was giving an undue representation on principles not consistent with a free gorerne
to one section of the cominonwealth a proper ment. Gentlemen on all sidės admitted that iffa
check ? No-linless it could be shewn that Bos- new constitution was to be formed, this priuciple
ton could, and would, elect better men, than would should be left out. He could not chen see the con
have been elected in any other part of the state. sistency of retaining it. And why limit the princi:
This went to remove one of the fundamental prin- ple? He had heard no answer. If the principle
ciples of the government, that a majority shall rule. was correct, it could be carried through. He was
The object of the present resolution was nothing not contending for these foui senators to be apport
but to reduce the number of senators from Suffolk tioned among
other counties; he was willing they
lo two or at least to three. It shews only that Suf- should be struck off, and the senate.be reduced
folk chooses four more tkan any other coonty of thirty-two. One gentleman had endeavoured
equal population. It was incumbent on the oppos- shew that property could be represented; that doli
ers of this resolution to thew, tharthe vote of an lars in Boston could be set off against dollars ir
individual in one county should have three times Berkshire. This was meeting the question fairly
the value of a vote in another. He acquiesced in and it shewed the folly of the principle. They had
all the eulogy on the citizens of Boston which had not dollars to oppose, but they had rights as dear
been made by t.be gentleman from Salem, (Mr. as property. He was not present when the resoli
Story.) But it was not to be supposed that all the ution was proposed, and adopted by a large majors
citizens would have the same intelligence and vir- \| ity; but he thought the vote would not be reversi
tue which a large part of them have. The senators ed. Gentlemen had thought of the subject before
were not chosen by this intelligent and virtuous | they came into the house, and he had seen nothing
class alone, but by the nultitude, as in other cour- to shake their opinion, that this was the rotten part
ties. The great argument had been, that wealth of the constitution, and would be struck off. Strike
ought to be represented. He could see nothing in it off, and they might go on prosperously, and trans:
wealth to entitle it to a representation, and its nat- mit improyed to posterity, the privileges they had
iral influence showed that it did not need it. The enjoyed.
fluctuation of wealth, so beautifully described yes- Mr. DUTTOŃ, of Boston, said he did not rise
terday by the gentleman from Salem, (Mr. Story) to enter into the general argument. He did not
was a sufficient reason why it should not be specifi- l-propose to follow gentlemen, in the discussion of
cally represented. It was here to-day, and he the resolution as involving an essential principle of
wislied to God it might be in Berkshire tomorrow. civil government. After a debate that had brought
The principle stated by the gentleman from Wor- forth so much ability, it did not belong to him, but
cester, (Mi. Lincoln) was correct, though his ex- to others, to pursue the general argunent. His
ample of the town of Hull miglit not precisely meet only object was to extract one proposition from the
the principle. If foreigners put a large amount of present state of the debate, and to follow it in some
property into any one district, it would give a right of its necessary consequences. This proposition
to an additional number of senators. It was per- was, that if the Senate was to be formed upop
fectly, proper that taxation and representation numbers, and no alteration was to be made in the
should go together, but not that half the represen- mode of assessing taxes, every plan, which had
tation-should be on wealth and half on population. been introduced would operate unequally and una
He did not believe that if we had had one repre- li justly towards the county of Scifolk. He was soriy
sentative in parliament, the revolution would have to mention the name of any county, but he believa
heen stayed; if we liad had a representation in ed if any other county stood in the same predicar
proportion to our population, we might then pre- ment that Suffolk did, it would find abler and more
sume it would never have taken place. When we zealous defenders than he was. He trusted, how
establish a government for ourselves, and all peo- ever, that the few remarks he had to make, would
ple, who are taxed, are represented in proportior show, that iſ this county was to be oppressed and
to their numbers, representation and taxation dio injured, the state would suffer in the same propor.
go
band in hand. Was not property in this way tion. By the report of the special committee, six
equally well protected as it would he by the rich, if senators are allotted to Suffolk; but if the resolu
von should introduce an aristocracy? Property tion prevails, this number will be reduced to twoj.
was equally dear to the poor man as to the rich. or at most three. Tbc six senators are now giveni
It was a subject of wonder, that our constitution by the constitution, upon the principle of taxation,
under the circunıstances in which is was made, ind the principle of the resolution is to be applied
was so beautiful a fabric, as it is; not that it had á 10 rediice the number by one hall, but not to rilas
single defect. It was but an experiment. If we duce the taxation. The report of the special com
look away this defect, which was as clear as the mittee presents a system connected in all its parts
.
MASSASHUSETTS SONVENTION,
139
it is a compromise of rights and interests, and if || rights of property will be better protected, and en-
any of its parts are taken away, it will operate un- terprize better rewarded ? He asked gentlemen
equally. If the principle of the senate is taken a- also to consider, if the commercial towns were to,
way, the formation of the house of representatives be oppressed; if there was to be a dissocial, hos-
will be unjust. , As the report stands, taken as a lile spirit prevailing; if the ties which now bind
whole, there is a great concession, in the reduc- us together are to be weakened or severed, who
tiop of representation in the house; and if the num- will suffer most, the merchants of the farmers ?
ber of senators is to be reduced, we lose that for Examples were at hand. In ancient times Tyre.
which the concession is made, in addition to the and Carthage grew rich and powerful by com-
inequality arising from the mode of assessing taxes. merce; so powerful did Carthage become, tbat
The scheme of the gentleman from Roxbury, she long maintained a struggle with Rome for the
though more consistentin itself, presents the same world's empire--though surrounded by deserts.-
difficulty, and works the same injustice. The plan. He deprecated those evils, he put it to the attach.
of the gentleman from Worcester, would operate ment of gentlemen to the state of Massachusetts to
more unjustly than any other yet proposed. It say, if it was not most desirable to prevent them. He
would enable four towns in the county of Worces could not believe that honorable gentlemen would
ters, with three thousand inhabitants each, to send be, or could be influenced by jealqusy or prejudice,
as many representatives as the whole county of to do this great wrong. Neither could he thinks
Suffolk. Taken in connection with the present re- that they could be influenced by any considera-
solution, it would reduce our representatives to tions of party politics. The paltry distinctions of
cight, and our senators to three, and yet the whole party will soon pass away; and ihe passions and
burden of taxation would remain. He took the interests of the day will soon be at rest; but the
proposition then to be true, and would proceed to principles now to be decided will remain. He
offer a few remarks to the gentlemen from the asked gentlemen to pause before they took the
country upon its consequences. He would put it to last step, before they inflicted an injury which
them, if they had the power to carry this resolu- | might outlive the constitution they were revising.
tion, and the disposition to use it, that though it Mr. LINCOLN said the distinguished attention
might be excellent to have a giant's strength, it with which he was honored yesterday, demanded
would be tyrannouş to use it like a giant. .Could it the acknowledgment of a reply. He should have
be supposed that the county of Suffolk would sub- been contented that the question should be decided
mit to so, grievous a wrong, without a murmur ? without any further remarks from himn-but the
Could it be thought desirable to honorable and high range that ihe discussion had taken, and the mis-
minded gentlemen, to plant a sentiment of injus- 1 apprebension of his remarks, forbad that he should
tice in the breasts of forty thousand people, which be silent. He was besides the agent of those who
would descend from one generation io another would only be heard through him. The proposi-
with increasing aggravation for it ought to be re- tion before the house was a simple and independ-
membered that nothing sunk so deep, or lasted so ent oue--that the Senate should be represented on
long, as the feeling of unmerited injury. Every the basis of population. It liad been admitted that
gentleman in the country had some connection this was a piaper basis for one branch, and he ash-
with the town, of business, or friendly intercourse, ed why it should necessarily be in the house of re-
He deprecated a measure, which would create or presentatives instead of the senate. He insisted
cherish any distinction between the agricultural that this basis was proper for the senate. It was
and commercial parts of the state. He consider- the most natural and obvious principle. If you as.
ed it as a social injury, a mischief, which would sume the proportion of wealth, it was not a repre-
propagate itself till it should be felt in every corner sentation of property, but of the people. And to
of the state. But this was not all. He asked gen-adopt the rule of representing the people accord-
tlemen to consider whether the prosperity of the ing to wealth, conferred a power that was danger-
commercial towns was not their own prosperity. ous. The principle did not give to the rich man
He contended that the interests of a criculture and an influence according to his property, but gave
commerce were indissolubly connected. IVho the poor man who sat at the gate of the rich, the
were the merchants ? the agents and factors of the same influence. , Take the money owned in a rich
farmers; the men who brought to the what they district and carry it to a poor one, without trans-
wanted to buy, and took from them what they ferring the owners, and the right of representation
wanted 10 sell. - The more capital thuse merchants was transferred, and given to the poor men there.
bad, and the greater their number, higher prices, It was the poor men, who were placed by the side
and more markets would be found for the surplus of the property wherever it was, that he feared--it
produce of the farmers. It was therefore the in- was not the influence of the rich, but the influence
terest of the farmer, that the cominercial towns which they conferred on the poor. The basis of
sliould increase in wealth and numbers, for it was wealth is transient. If property is mine to-day, it
the
prosperity of the whole state. No maxim in may be another's tomorrow. A representation of
political scierice was more true, and it was not too the people predicated on this phantom would seem
much to say, that it was commerce that made idle. Wealth consists not in money, but in the pre-
rocks and sands fertile. Besides, gentlenien would ductive labor of the country, in the soit and its pro-
remember that we had no great staple; that for- duce. Found the representation on this substantial.
eign ships did not come here for cargoes of cot- property which cannot be affected by accident, and
lon, or rice, or tobacco, or flour; but on the oth- it will have some permanent basis. But it is said
er hand so various were the articles destined to in the basis is not wealth, but taxation--this is found-
distant market, so combined with manafactures, ed on valuation. He contended that the basis was
and suited to the wants of so many portions of this not taxation. Did the people have an influence in
country, as well as of others, that it required num- proportion to the taxes, which they paid? There
bers of these agents to transact the business. The was nothing in the constitution which predicated
difference in the business of merchants, is a greal the representation in the senate on taxation. lt
almost as it is between different professions. This the legislature should impose all the taxes of the
is che result of commercial prosperity. Will you
Will you state on polls, the representation would not be on
then lay unequal burthens upon the commercial this taxation it would be on the valuation. There
towns ? Will you give them less encouragement, is now a poll tax paid, and the basis is not founded
or less protection for their rights, than you allow on this, but on the valuation of property. He said
to other members of the state ? Will
Will you drive he would take this occasion to thank gentlemen
them to the other parts of the country where the for their magnanimity in relation to his proposi-
2
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
1
tion. It had been condemned without being un- mittee. He would first notice the statement of the:
derstood. He had had no opportunity of explain- gentleman from Billerica, that in the select: com.
ing it. What was it? That there should be a rep- náittee, he (Mr. L.) had agreed to none of the pro-
şesentation for every corporate town, and that the positions which had been made. He said that of
large towns should have an additional representa- the eighteen resolutions, he had voted against five;
tion is an increasing ratio which should compen- and-in favor of all the rest.
sale for fractions in the smaller towns. This sys- Mr: LOCKE I'ose to explain. He said that of
tém was, justified by the example of our ancestors the original propositions submitted to the commit-
ip'adopting the same system, and continuing it in tee, he was not aware that the gentleman from
practice for many years with general approbation. Worcester had approved of any one. And he be- .
The corporate right he did not consider strictly a lieved he was correct in saying that he opposed
vested legalright, but what he called a political right. them all. When the propositions were reduced to
What was the foundation of this right ? In 1636 a form he did not mean to deny that he voted in favor
law was passed granting to the freemen of every of some of the particular resolutions.
town the right to choose a representative in the Mr: LINCOLN said that they were at issue.on
general court. In this law there was a restriction a point of fact, but it was not the place to put him-
of the right of any town to two representatives. In self on the country. He objècted in committee to
1692 a provincial law was passed, which allowed five of the resolutionsmito making the valuation
towns of from thirty to förty freeholders to choose the basis of representation in the senate ; to clas.
one representative-every town which had 120 to sing the small towns; and he objected still. He
choose two, and the tows of Boston to choose four.
proceeded to consider the plan of the committee.
In 1775 a law was passed recognizing the charter- The senate. was to be apportioned according to
ed rights of the towns to choose representatives.- the valuation which gives to the counties of Suf-
In 1780 the people were so jealous of the corpor- folk and Essex one third of the representation,
ate rights of the towns, that in forming the consti- though they are but one fitth of the population
tution they expressly recognized the right of every of the state. Suffolk with a population of 33,000
corporate town-even the town of Hullato choose
was to have six senators, and Hampshire with
a representative-though no town afterwards in-
a population of more than 70,000 would have on-
corporated was to have a right unless it had 100 ly four. Was this equal ? What was to counter-
ratable polls Why was this reservation nade, un- balance this inequality ? A house of representa-
less it was in respect to the corporate right of the tives on a mixed principle, by which 140 towns.
towns ? Further, underthe constitution it has been would be virtnally disfranchised. It was not merc-
the practice of the legislature to incorporate towns ly an inequality between the towns, but between
with the right, if they have more than 150 ratable the citizens of neighbouring lowns. An inhabitant
polls, to elect a representative; and connected of one town might vote for a representative every
with this right are corporate duties. Would it be
year, but in the neighbouring town only. every other
just and equal to take away the right of represen- year. It was a violation of corporate rights, and
tation, and continue upon them the imposition of an outrage upon the equal rights of the people.
the duties which result from their incorporation- He asked, was it not so ? More than 140 to wis .
the duty of supportiøg schools-highways--poor, were to be classed and enjoy the privilege of send-
&c. He thought not, though he might be singular ing a representative but once in two years, while
in his opinion. He proceeded to consider the oth- the citizens of the large towns “would exereise the
er part of his proposition--the creation of an as- same privilege every year. Was this equal ? Men
cending series, as the basis of représentation in born in ove town would indeed be equal with each
larger towns. He had proposed the plan with other, but they would not be.equal with those born
great modesty, and had expressly proposed the in other towns. He demanded the authority by
numbers for consideration. It had been his inten- which, this inequality was to be produced. The
tion to propose another resolution which should people: were not familiar with any such principle,
operate as a further restriction, that the represen- and would not be easily reconciled to it. A further
tatives should be paid by their towns. He had | inequality would ensue. There were to be 86,000
stated that if these numbers were too high, lower people, making nearly a fiſth part of our popula-
numbers might be taken. Was it fair and candid, tion, wholly unrepresented every year in the Leg.
thon, to take the numbers, thus proposed, as his islature of the Coinmonwealth. The system of the
plan which was to be adopted without alteration ? committee would give the towns containing 1200
It was not his plan- he had at that time no plan-- || inhabitants, and to those containing not quite 3600,
he was willing to he governed in his opinion re- the same right, the same proportion of representa-
lating to the house, by deternyilation that tion. Was this just and equal ? Jfit was, it be-
should be made in relation to the senate. He pro- canie so by a political arithmetic, in which he had
ceeded to make some calculations to show that the not been initiated. What would be the operation
inequality was not so great as had been representa of the plan, in relation to the middling towns ?-
ed, and that if this plan were pursued, there might lite felt no squeamishness about alluding to the
be towns of middling size that would not be more county or town in which he lived. In respeet to
fully represented than Boston. The representa- the former he was entirely disinterested'; for the
tives from the town of Boston, would all count on county of Worcester would be entitled to five sena-
one side; but take double, three times, or ten tors, whether the apportionment was on valuation,
times the number from different corporations, and or on population. But the town of Worcester
they might be so divided as to neutralize one an- would be entitled to but one representative, and by
other. He adınitted that the town and country had the proportion of valuation would pay for five.
but one great interest, and that considering the in- That town, with 3000 inhabitants, would have the
fluence of the people of Boston in the legislature, same representation as a sinall town by the side of
they had deported themselves with great nodera- it with 1200, and would yet pay ten times as much.
tion. Their power had always been exercised with Was this equal ? He hoped gentlemen would not
a due regard to the rights of the people. There violate their own principle, that laxation and rep-.
was no people in whoin he liad more confidence, resentation should go hand in hand. And what was
and if the same amount of population were con- the equivalent which the small towus were to re-
centrated in any other town, he should feel a great ceive for giving up their privileges ? They were
deal less. It was so much easier to find fault than to get a little money-to get a mess of pottage för
to commend, he hoped he should be indulged in a birth-right. They were called upon to barter
Emding some fault with the propositions of the com- their privileges, raiher than pay the cost of repre-
1
I
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
24 1
sentation. Tlie sınall towns would not thank gen- Mr. WEBSTER spoke in substance as follows:
tlemen for the compliment. They would claiin I know not, Sir, wliether it be probable that any
their right, though they might not use it when it
might not use it when it | opinions or votes of mine, are ever likely to be of
wasunnecessary;
but cost what it would, they would more perinancnt importance, than those which I,
exercise the right when it became important.- may give in the discharge of my duties in this body,
Were gentlemen here willing to go home to their And of the questions which may arise here, I antici-
constituents, and tell them they had bartered the pate no one of greater consequence than the pres-
right by which they held their seats? Let them ent. I ask teave therefore to submit a few remarks
take the responsibility on themselves; he washed tothe consideration of the Committee.
his hands of it. The gentleman from Salem depre- The subject before uş, is the manner of consti-
cated the number, which, under the present con- tuting the Legislative Department of Government.
stitution, might fill the house of representatives, We have already decided, that the legislative pow-
and alluded to times, in which he had witnessed er shell exist, as it has heretofore existed, in two
great inconveniencies arising from this source; separate and distinct branches, a Senate and a
times when the political friends of that gentieman House of Representatives. We propose also, at
did many things, in which he hoped, and after what least I have heard no intimation of a contrary opiſje
bad been said, he was bound in honor to believe, ion, that thes? branches shall, in form, possess a
that gentleman did not participate. He too (Mr: negative on each other. And I presume I may take.
L.) had been a representative when there, ivas a it for granted, that the members of both these hous-
full house. It was in a period of great aları ; es are to be chosen annually. The immediate'
when the country was at war; and he believed question, now under discussion is, in what manner
that the great numbers of the house had been, at shall the Senators be elected? They are to be
that time, the means by which the country had chosen in districts; but shall they be chosen, in
been preserved. It was numbers in that house, i proportion to the number of inhabitants in each dis-
that kept the people quiet-numbers, which could irici, or in proportion to the tarzuble property of each
not be assailed by corruption--which could not be district, or in other words, in proportion to the pure
overawed by threats. Mr. L. said there was an- | which euch district bears in the public burdens of the
other feature of the system, which he looked upon state. The later is the existing provision of the
as a preparation of chains and fetters for the peo- conštitntion; and to this I give my support. The
ple. He alluded to the amendatory provision, l proposition of the Honorable member from Rox-
whica had been recommended by a select commitbury, (Mr. Dearborn) proposes to divide the state
tee and agreed to in cominittee of the ivhole. This into certain Legislative Districts, and to cboose a
provision, though reported by a different commit- ll given number of Senators, and a' guven number of
tee, was to be viewed in connexion with the resolu- Representatives, in each district, in proportion to
tions he was exairining, and was to be taken as a population. This l' understand. It is a simple and
part of the system. What, he demanded, was the plain system. The honorable member froni Pites
value of the amnendatory principle ? One third of | field, and the honorable menzber from Worcester
the senate would come from the counties of Suf support the first part of this proposition--that is lo
folk and Essex. Suppose Suffolk and Essex should say, that part which provides for the choice of Sen-
lose in their population, and 400,000 inhabitants, in ators, according to population-wịthout exp'aining
the other parts of the Commonwealth, should pro- entirely their views, as to the latter part, relatire
pose a reform in the Senate on this account.' How to the choice of Representatices. They insist that
was it to be effected ? Six Senators would come che questions are distinct, and capable of a separate
from Suffalk, and six from Essex; and if a gentle consideration and decision. I confess myself Sir
man from the country, happened to be in the chair unable to view tlre subject in that light. It seems
of the Senate, these two counties could successfully to me there is an essential propriety in, considering
l'esist any amendment that should be proposed. ll the questions together; and in forming our opin-
This was a system with a vengeance, a system by lions on the constitution of one, with reference to
which an amendment might, year after
year, he
that of the other. The Legislature is one great
unanimously adopted by the House of Represen- || machine of government, not
tatives, and yet be prevented by the Senators of two bouses are its parts, and its , utility will as it
two counties from going into effect. If this seems to me, depend, not merely on the materials
was a part of the system, it formed an additional of these parts, or their separate construction, but
reason for opposing it. 'He said there was no in- ll on their accommodation also, and adaptation to
consistency in adopting some of the resolutions of each other. Their balanced and regulated move-
the committee, and rejecting others. · He thought ment, when united; is that which is expected to in-
the choice of Senators by districts, according to the sure safety to the state; and who can give any o..
resolutions of the gentleman from Roxbury, was an
pinion on this, without Érsi sceing the construciiou
equal systena; if he was wrong, let some other sys-
of hoch, and considering how they are formed and
tem be taken for the Senate. "If a part of the plan arranged, with respect to their mutual relation. I
of the select committee was adopted, it did not fol.
can loc imagine, therefore, how the member from
low that gentlemen must vote for the whole.
Worcester should think it uncandid 10 inquire of
The chair.nan of that committee would allow him him, sivce he supports this mode of choosing. Sena-
to say that there were intrinsic difficulties in the tors, rahat mode he proposes for the choice of Rep.
subject, and he trusted that if he was mistaken in
resentatives.
his opinions in relation to it, he should not on that It has been said, that the Constitution, as it now
-account forfeit all title to estcem. · Heliad 10 stands, gives more than an equal and proper num-
hostility to compromises, but he was unwilling to ber of Senators to the County of Suffolk. I hope I
yield principles." If any sacrifice was to be made,
he preferred that it should be made on the altar of
may be thouglit tº contend for tire general princi-
the people, and rot on the altar of wealth.
locale
Mr. KNEELAND, of Andover, inquired wheth- Senators whom tliis principle brings into the gov-
er it was necessary to adopt the system, proposed ernment, will come tiom the Couniy of Sufork, or
by the select committee, in regard to the house of from the Housatozick River, or the extremity of
representatives, if the resolutions reported by thren
respeeting the senate, should be adopted. He said
Cape Cod. I wish to look only to the principle
and as I believe that to be sound and salulary,
he was in favor of that part of their report, which give my vote in favor of maintaiusig it
.
relates to the scnate, and opposed to the present
resolutions of the gentleman from Roxbury.
In my opinion, Sir, there are two questions he:
ſore thg columitier. The first is, sball.le Izuk.
19 :
212
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
lative Department be constructed, with any other the Legislature, from the very nature of things, is
check, than such as arises simply from dividing the the most powerful' department, it becomes necessa-
members of this Department into two houses? The ry to provide, in the mode of forming it,some check,
second is, if such other and further check ought which shall ensure deliberation, and caution, in its
to exist, in what inanner shall it be created ?
measures. If all Legislative power rested in one
If the two houses are to be chosen in the manneri house, it is very problematical, whether any proper
proposed by the resolutions of the member from independence could be given, either to the Execu.
Roxbury, there is obviously no other check or con- tive or the Judiciary. Experience does not speak
trol than a division into separate chambers. The encouragingly, on ihat point. If we look through
members of both houses are to be chosen at the the several constitutions of the states, we shall per-
same time, by the same electors, in the same dis- ceive that generally the Departments are most dis-
tricts, and for the same term of office. They will tinct and independent,.where the Legislature is com:
of course all be actuated by the same feelings and posed of two houses, with equal authority, and
interests. Whatever motives may, at the moment mutual checks. If all Legislative power be in one
exist, to elect particular members of one house, will popular body, all other power, sooner or later, will
operate, equally on the choice of members of the be there also
other. There is so little of real utility in this mode, I wish, now, Sir, to correct a most important
that, if nothing more be done, it would be more mistake, in the manner in which this question has
expedient to choose all the members of the Legis- been stated. It has been said, that we propose to
lature, without distinction, simply as members of give to property; merely as such, a control over
the Legislature, and to make the division into two the people, numerically considered. But this
houses, either by lot, or otherwise, after these take not to be at all the true nature of the propo-
members thus chosen, should have come up to the sition. The Senate is not to be a check on the
Capital.
People, but on the House of Representatives. It is
I understand the reason of checks and bulances, the case of an authority given to one agent,to check
in the Legislative power, to arise from the truth, or control the acts of another - The people, having
that, in Representative governments, that Depart- conferred on the House of Representatives,powers'
inent is the leading and predominating poiver; and which are great, and from their nature, liable to
if its will may be, at any time, suddenly and hasti- abuse, require, for their own security, another
ly expressed, there is great danger that it may over- house, which shall possess an effectual negative on
throw all other powers.--Legislative bodies natur- the first This does not limit the power of the
ally feel strong, because they are numerous,, and people ; but only the authority of their aģents. It is
because they consider themselves as the immédiate not a restraint on their rigbts, but a restraint on
Representatives of the people. They depend on that power which they have delegated. It limits
public opinion to sustain their measures, and they the authority of agents, in making laws to bind their
undoubtedly possess great means of influencing principals. "And if it be wise to give one 'agent the
public opinion. With all the guards which can be power of checking or controlling another, it is e-
raised by constitutional provisions, we are not like- qually wise, most maniſestly, that there should be
ly to be too well secured against cases of improp- some difference of character, sentiment, feeling, er
er, or hasty, or intemperate legislation. It may be origin, in that agent, who is to possess this control.
wbserved, also, that the Executive power, so uni- Otherwise, it is not at all.probable that the control
formly the object of jealousy to republics, has be- will ever be exercised. To require the consent of
come, in the states of this Union, deprived of the two agents to the validity of act, and yet to appoint
greatest part, both of its importance, and its splen- || agents so similar, in all respects, as to create a
dor, by the establishment of the general govern- moral certainty that what one does the other will,
inent.
do also, would be inconsistent, and nugatory:
making war and peace, and maintained military There can be no effectual control without sonje diſa
forces by their own authority, the power of the ference of origin, or character, or interest, or feel
.
state Executives was very considerable, and res- ing, or sentiment. And the great question, in this
pectable. It might then even be an object, in some country, has been, where to find, or how to create,
cascs, of a just and warrantable jealousy. But a this difference, in governments entirely elective and
great change has been wrought. The care of for-
popular? Various modes have been attempted, in
eign relations,the maintenance ofarmies and navies, various states. In some, a difference of qualifica.
and their command and control, have devolved on tion has been required; in the persons to be e.
another government Even the power of appoint- lected. This obviously produces little or no
ment, so exclusively, one would think, an executive effect. All property qualification, even the high-
power, is, in very diany of the states, held or con-
est, is so low as to produce no exclusion, to any
trolled by the Legislature; that department either
extent, in
any of the states. A difference of age,
making the principal appointinents, itsell, or else in the persons elected, is sometimes required;
surrounding the Chief Executive Magistrate with but this is:found to be equally unimportant. It has
a Council, of ils own election, possessing a nega- not happened, neither, that any consideration of
tive: upon his nominations.
the relative rank of the members of the two house
Nor has it been found easy, nor in all cases es has bad much effect on the character of their
possible, to preserve the Judicial Department from constituent members. Both in the State Goverve
tic progress of Legislative encroachment. Indeed ments,
and in the U. S. Government, we daily sce
in some of the states all Judges are appointed by persons elected into the House of Representatives
the Legislature; in others although appointed by who have been members of the Senale. Public
the Executive, they are remorable at the pleasure opinion does not attach so much weight and im-
of the Legislature. In all, the provision for their portance to the distinction, as to lead individuak
maintenance is necessarily to be made by the Leg- greatly to regard it. In some of the states, a dik
islature. As if Montesquieu had never demonstrat ferent sort of qualification in the electors, is se
ed the necessity of separating the departments of qured, for the two houses ; and this is probably
governments; as if Mr. Adans had not done the
the mos; proper and etlicient check. But such
sawe thing, with equal ability, and niore clearness, has not been the provision in this Commonwealıbı
in his defence of the American Gonstitution; as and there are strong objections to introdacing il.
the sentiments of Alr. Hamilton and Mr. Madison, In other cases, again, there is a double election
were already forgotten; we see, all around us, á for Senators i electors being first chose), who
tendency to extend the Legislative power over the lect Senators. Such is the Constituiou o Marte
proper sphere of the other Departments. And as land ; in which the Senators are your
6
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
248
22
1
then,
years, by electors, appointed, in equal numbers by solute. If a few possess the land, this makes the
the Counties; a mode of election not unlike that Gothic or Feudal Constitution. If the whole peo
of choosing Representatiyes in Parliament for the ple be landlords, then is it a Commonwealth.
Boroughs of Scotland. In this state the qualifica- is strange,says Mr. Pope, in one of his record
tion of the voter's is the same, and there is no es- ed conversations, that Harrington should be the
sential difference in that of the persons chosen.- first man to find out so evident and deňonstrable à
But, in apportioning the Senate to the different truth, as that of property being the true basis and
districts of the state, the present Constitution as- measure of power.” In truth he was not the firsť.
signs to each district, a number proportioned to The idea is as old as political science itself. It
its public taxes. Whether this be the best mode, may be found in Aristotle, Lord Bacon, Sir Walter
of producing a difference in the construction of the || Raleigh, and other writers. Harington seems
two houses, is not now the question ; but the however to be the first writer who has illustrated,
question is whether this be better than no mode. and expanded the principley and given to it the ef
The gentleman from Roxbury called for author- fect and prominence which justly belong to it.
ity on this subject. He“ asked, what writer of To this sentiment, särs I. entirely agree. It
reputation, had approved the principle for which seems to me to be plam, that in the absence
we contend. I should hope, sir, that even if this of military force, political power naturally and
call could not be answered, it would not néces- | necessarily goes into the hịands wliich hold the
sarily follow, that the principle should be expung property. In may judgment, therefore, a republi.
fit, not for subjects of speculative reasoning mere- al Constitutions, than on those laws which reg:
ly. The best authority, for the support of a par-
ulate the descent and transmision of property.
ticular principle or provision, in Government, is Governments like ours. could not have been main
experience; and, of all experience, our own, iftained, where property was holden according to the
it have been long enough to give the principle a principles of the feudal system ; nor, on the other
fair trial, should be most decisive. This provis- / hand, could the feudal Constitution possibly exist
ion has exisied, for forty years, and while so with us. Our New England' ancestors brought
many gentlemen contend that it is wrong in theo- hitber no great capitals, from Europe'; and if
ry, no one has shewn that it has been either inju- | they had, there was nothing, prodụctive, in which
rious or inconvenient in practice. No one pre- they could have been invested. They left behind
tends, that it has causėd a bad law to be enacted, them the whole fendal system of the other conti-
or a good one to be rejected. To callon us, nent. They broke away, at once, from that
to strike out this provision, because we should be system of military service, established in the dark
able to find no authority for it, in any Book on ages, and which continues, down even to the pres-
Government, would seem to be like requiring a. ent time, more or less to affect the condition - of
mechanic to abandon the use of an implement, ll property all over Europe. They came to a new
which had always answered all the purposes de- country. There were, as yet, no lands yielding
signed by it, because he could find no model of it, I rent, and no tenants rendering service. The
in the patent office.
whole soil was unreclaimed fron barbarism. They
But, sir, I take the principle to be well establish- were, themselves, either from their original con-
ed by writers of the greatest authority. In the
In the dition, or from the necessity of their cominion in-!
first place, those who have treated of natural law, || terest, nearly on a generallevel, in respect to prop-.
lave maintained, as a principle of that law, that erty. Their situation demanded a parceliing out
as far as the object of society is the protection of and division of the lands; and it may be fairly
someiling in which the members vossess une- said, that this necessary act fixed the future frame
qual shares, it is just that the weight of each per- and form of their government. The character of
son, in the common councils, should hear a rela- their political institutions was determined by the
tion and proportion to his interest. Such is the fundainental laws, respecting property. The laws
sentiment of Grotius, and he refers, in support of rendered estates divisible, among sons, and daugh-
it, to several institutions, among the ancierit states. ters. The right of primogeniture, at first limited,
Those authors who have written more particu- and curtailed, was afterwards abolished. The
larly on the subject of political institutions, have, ll property was all freehold. The entailment of es-
many of them, maintained similar sentiments: tates, long trusts and the other processes forſetter-
Not, indeed, that every man's power should be in ing and lying up inheritances, were not applica-
exact proportion to his property, but that, in a ble to the condition of society, and seldom made
general sense, and in a general form, property, as use of. On the contrary, alienation of the land
such, should have its weight and influence, in po- was, overy way, facilitated, even to the subjecting
litical arrangement. Montesquieu speaks, with of it to every species of debt. The establishment
approbation, of the early Roman regulation, made of public registries,/and the simplicity of our forms
by Servius l'ullius, by which the people were dis- of conveyance have greatly facilitated the
tributed into classes, according to their property, change of real cstate, from one proprietor
and the public burdens apportioned to each indi- another. The consequence of all these
vidual, according to the degree of power which causes has been, a great subdivision of the
he jiossessed in the government. By which regu- soil, and a great equality, of condition ; the true
lation, he observes, some bore with the greatness basis most certainly of a popular government.-
of their tax, because of their proportionable par- “ If the People," says Harrington, “hold three
ticipation in power and credit; others consoled parts in fuur of the territory, it is plain there can
themselves, for the smallness of their power and neither be any single person nor nobility able to dis-
Credit, by the smallness of theirtax. One of the most puto the government with them; in this case,
ingenious of political writers, is Mr. Harrington ; therefore, except force be interposed, they govern
all author not now read so much as he deserves. It themselves.
is his leading object, in his Oceana, lo prove, that The history of other nations may teach us how
power naturally and necessarily follows property.- favorable to public liberty is the division of the
He maintains that a governinent, founded on soil, into small freeholds, and a system of laws, of
property, is legitimately founded; and that a gove which the tendency is, witlout violence or injus:
eruinent ſounded on the disregard of property, is tice, to produce and to preseryeadegree of equal.
founded in injustice, and can only be maintained lity of property. It has been estipated, if I mistake
by military force. - If one man, says he, be sole nöt, that about the time of Henry the VII, four
landlord like the grand seignior, his empire is al- fifilis of the land, in England, was lofden by the
to
1
244
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
vincible power:
see
great barons, and ecclesiastics. The effects of a multitude of small proprietors, acting with intelli-
growing commerce soon afterwards began to gence, and that enthusiasm which a common cause
break in, on this state of things, and before the inspires, constitute not only a formidable, but an in-
Revolution in 1688 a vast change had been
wrought. It is probable, perhaps, that for the last The true principle of a free and popular gov-
half century, the process of subdivision, in England, ernment would seem to be so to construct it as to
has been retarded, if not reversed ; that the great give to all, or at least to a very great majority, an"
weight of taxation has compelled many of the les- interest in its preservation. To found it, as other
sor.freeholders to dispose of their estates, and to things are founded; on men's interest, 'The stabil.
seek employment in the army, and navy ; in the ity of government requires that those who desire
professions of civil life'; in commerce, or in the its continuance should be more powerful than those
colonies. The effect of this on the British Consti- who desire its dissolution. This power, of course,
tution cannot but be most unfavorable. A few
is not always to be measured by mere numbers.-
large estates grow larger; but the number ef those
Education, wealth,talents, are all parts and elements :
who have no estates also encreases ; and there of the general aggregate of power; but oumbers,
may be danger, lest the inequality of property be- nevertheless, constitute ordinarily the most impor-
come so great, that those who possess it may be tant consideration, unless indeed there be a military
dispossessed by force. In other words, that the force in the hands of the few, by which they can con-
government may be overturned.
trol the many. In this country we have actual exist-
A most interesting experiment of the effect of a ing systems of government in the protection of which
subdivision of property, on government, is now it would seem a great majorily, both in numbers
making in France. It is understood, that the law and in other means of power and influence, must
regulating the transmission of property, in that tbeir interest. But tbis state of things is not
country, now divides it, real and personal, among brought about merely by written political constitu-
all the children; equally, both sons and daughters ; tions, or the mere manner of organizing the gov-
and that there is, also, a very great restraint on the ernment; but also by the laws which regulate the
power of making dispositions of property by will. descent and transmission of property. The freest
It has been supposed, that the effect of this might government, if it could exist, would not be long
probably be, in time, to break up the soil, into such
acceptable, il the tendency of the laws were to
small subdivisions, that the proprietors would be create a rapid accumulation of property in few
too poor to resist the encroachments of executive hands, and to render the great mass of the popula-
power. I think far, olherwise. What is lost in in- tion dependent and pennyless.
In such a case,
dividual wealth, will be more than gained, in num- the popular power must break in upon the rights
bers, in intelligence, and in a sympathy of senti- of property; or else the influence of property must
ment. If indeed, only one, or å few fandholders limit and control the exercise of popular power.-
were to resist the crown, like the barons of Eng- Universal suffrage, for example, could not long
land, they must, of course, be great and powerful exist in a community, where there was great ine-
landholders, with multitudes of retainers to pro- quality of property. The holders of estates would
mise success. But if the proprietors of a given ex- be obliged in such case, either, in some way, to re-
tent of territory are summoned to resistance, there strain the right of suffrage; or else such right of
is. no reason to believe that such resistance would suffrage would, ere long divide the property. 122
be less forcible, or less successful, because the the nature of things, those who have not property,
number of such proprietors should be great. Each and see their neighbours possess much more than
would perceive his own importance, and his own they think them to need, cannot be favorable 10
interest, and would feel that natural elevation of laws made for the protection of property. When
character, which the consciousness of property in- this class becomes numerous, it grows clamorous.
spires. A comnion sentiment would unite all, and It loolis on property as its prey and plunder, and
numbers would not only add strength, but excite is naturally ready, at all times, for violence and
enthusiasın. It is true, that France possesses a revolution
vast military force, under the direction of an he- It would seen, then to be the part of political
reditary executive government; and military pow- wisdom to found government on property; and to
er,
it is possible, may overthrow any, government. establish such distribution of property, by the laws
It is, in vain, however, in this period of the world, which regulate its transmission and alienation,
to look for sécurity against mulitary power, to the as to interest the great majority of society in the
arm of the great landholders. That notion is de-
protection of the government
This is, I imagine,
rived from a state of things long since past; a state the true theory and the actual practice of our re-
in which a feudal baron, with his retainers, might publican instirutions. With property divided, as
stand against the Sovereign, who was himself Sut we have it, no other goverument than that of a re-
the greatest baron, and his retainers. But at pre- l public could be maintained, even were we foolish
sant, what could the richest landholder do, against enough to desire it. There is reason, therefore, to
one regiment of disciplined troops. Other secu- expect a long continuance of our systems. Párty
rities, therefore, against the prevalence of military and passion, doubtless, may prevail at times, and
power must be provided Happily for us, we are
much temporary mischief be done. Even niodes
not so situated as that any purpose of national de- and forms may be changed, and perhaps for the
fence requires, ordinarily and constantly, such a worse. But a great revolution, in regard to prop-
military force as might seriously endanger our lib- erty, must take place, before our governments can
erties.
be moved from their republican basis, unless they
In respect, however, sir, to the recent law of he violently struck off by military power. The
succession in France, to which I have alluded, people possess the property, more emphatically
I would, presumptuously, perhaps, hazard a con- ihan it could ever be said of the people of any oth-
jecture, that if the governnient do not change the er country, and they can have no interest to over-
law, the law, in half a century, will change the gor- turn a goveroment which protects that property by
ernment; and that this change will be not in favor
equal laws.
of the power of the crown, as some European If the nature of our institutions bę to found gove
writers have supposed, but againstit. Those writ- ernment on property, and that it should look 10
ers only reason, upon what they think correct gen- those who hold property for its protection, it is en.
eral principles, in relation to this subject. They tirely just that property should bave its due weight
acknowledge a-want of experience.
and consideration, in political arrangements. Lite,
22:01:es that experience; and we kaqw that a and personal liberty, are, no doubt, to be protected
Here we
MASSACHUSETTS. CONVENTION:
245:
by law; but property is also to be protected by law, there be foạnd higheriproofs of a spirit, that was
and is the fund out of which the means for protect- | ready to hazard all, to pledge all, to sacrifice all,
ing life and liberty are usually furnished. We have in the cause of the country. Instances were not
no experience that teaches us, thàt any other unfrequent, in which small freeholders parted withi
rights are safe, where property is not safe. Con- their last hoof, and the last measure of corn from
fiscation and piunder are generally in revolutionary their granaries, to supply provision for the troops,
commotions not far before banishment, imprison- | and hire service for the ranks. . The voice of OTIS
ment and death. It would be monstrous to give and of ADAMS in Faneuil Hall, found its full and
eyen the name of government, to any association, true echo, in the little councils of the interior
in which the rights of property should not be com- towns; and if, within the continental congress,
petently secured. The disastrous revolutions which patriotism shone more conspicuously, it did not
the world has witnessed; those political thunder- there exist more truly, nor burn more fervently ;
storms, and eartlıquakes which have overthrown it did not render the day more anxious, or the night
the pillars of society from their very deepest foun- more sleepless; it sent up no more ardent prayer
dations, have been revolutions against property to God for succour; and it put forth, in no greater
Since the lion. member from Quincy (President degree, the fullness of its effort, and the energy of
Adams) has alluded, on this occasion to the histo- its whole soul and spirit, in the common cause, than
ry of the ancient states, it would be presumption, in it did in the small assemblies of the towns. I can-
me, to dwell upon it. It may be truly said, how- not, therefore, sir, agree that it is in favor of socie-
ever, I think, that Rome herself is an example of ty, or in favor of the people, to constitnte govern-
the mischievous influence of the popular power, ment, with an entire disregard to those who bear
when disconnected with property, and in a corrupt the public burdens, in times of great exigency.-
age. It is true, the arm of Cæsar prostrated her This question has been argued, as if it were pro-
liberty; but Cæsar found his support within her posed only to give an advantage to a few rich men.
very walls. Those who were profligate and ne- I do not so understand it. I consider it as giving
cessitous, and factious and desperate, and capable, property, generally, a-representation in the Sen-
therefore, of being influenced by bribes and larges-late, both because it is just that it should have such
ses, which were distributed with the utmost prodi- representation, and because it is a convenient mode
gality, out numbered, and out voted, in the tribes of providing that check, which the constitution of
and centuries, the substantial, sober, prudent and the legislature requires. I do not say that such
faithful citizens. Property was in the hands of one check might not be found in some other provision
description of men, and power in those of of anoth- but this is the provision already established, and it
er; and the balance of the constitution was destroy- || is, in my opinion, a just and proper one.
ed. Let it never be forgotten that it was the pop- 'I will beg leave to ask, sir, whether property
ular magistrates, elevated to office where the bad may not be said to deserve this portion of respect
outnumbered the good, where those who had no and power in the government.? It pays, at this mo-
stake in the commonwealth, by clamor, and noise, ment, I think, fire sixths of all the public taxes;
and numbers, drowned the voice of those who had, one sixth only being raised on persons. Notonly,sir,
that laid the neck of Rome at the feet of her con- do these taxes support those burdens, which all
querer. When Cæsar, manifesting a disposition to governments require, but we have, in New-Enge
march his army into Italy, approached that little land; from early times holden 'property to be suh-
stream, which has become so memorable, from its ! ject to another great public use ;-I mean the sup-
association with his character and conduct, a de- port of SCHOOLS.
cree was proposed in the Senate, declaring him a In this particular we may be allowed to claim a
public eneiny, if he did not disband his troops. To merit of a very high and peculiar character This
this decree the popular tribunes, the sworn protect' Commonwealth, with other of the New-England
ors of the people, interposed their negative; and States, early adopted, and bas constantly main-
thus opened the high road of Italy, and the gates of | tained the principle; that it is the undoubted right,
Rome herself, to the approach of her conqueror: and the bounden duty of government, to provide :
Tbe English revolution of 1688 was a revolution for the instruction of all youth. That which is else-
in favor of property, as well as of other rights. It where left to chance, or to charity, we secure by
was brought about by the men of property, for their law.** For the purpose of public instruction, we.
security; and our own immortal revolution was hold every man subject to taxation, in proportion
undertaken, not to shake or plunder property, but to his property, and we look not to the question,
to protect it. The acts of which the country com- whether he, hinyself, have, or havë not, children to
plained, were such as violated rights of property. be benefitted by tbe education for which he pays.
An inmense majority of all those who had an intei- We regard it as a wise and liberal system of police,
est in the soil were in favor of the revolution; and by which property, and life, and the peace of socie-
they carried it througlı,looking to its results for the tý are secured. We seek to prevent, in some
er
measure, the extension of the penal code, by in
of the frugal yeomanry of New-England, hard | spiring a salutary and conservative principle of
earned, but freely given, that enabled her to act virtue and of knowledge, in an early age.
We
her proper part, and perform her full duty, in a- hope to excite a feeling of respectability, and a
chieving the independence of the countıy.
sense of character, by enlarging the capacity, and
I would not be thought; Mr. Chairman, to be a- increasing the sphere of intellectual enjoyment. By
mong those who underrate the value of military general instruction, we seek, as far as possible, ty
service. My heart beats, I trust, as responsive as purify the whole moral atmosphere; to keep good
any one's, to a soldier's claim for honor and re- sentiments uppermost, and to turn the strong cúra
nown. It has ever been my opinion, however, rent of feeling and opinion, as well as the censures
that while celebrating the military achievements of of the law, and the denunciations of religion, sta
pur eountrymen, in the revolutionary contest, we gainst inmorality and criine. We hope for a sc:
have not always done equal justice to the merits, curity, beyond the law, and above the law, in the
and the sufferings, of those, who sustained, on their ll prevalence af enlightened and well principied mor-
property, and on their means of subsistence, the at sentiment. We hope to continue, and 10 pruluig
great burden of the war Any one, who has had
the time, when, in the villages and farm houses or
occasion to be acquainted with the records of the New-England, there may he undisturbed sleep;
New-England towns, knows well how to estimate within unbarred doors. And knowing that our
those merits, and those sufferings. : Nobler records governntent l'ests directly on the public will, that
of patriotisin exist nc where. No Where can
we may preserve it, we endeavor 10 give a sale
.
246
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
:
and proper direction to that public will. We do tained for property, and of foregoing also, the ex-
poti ideedexpect all men to be philosophers, or traordinary benefit which society among us, for
státesmen, but we confidently trust, and our ex- near two centaries, has derived, from laying the
pectation of the divrätion of our system of govein: burden of religious and literary instruction of all
menti rests on that trust that by the diffusion of gen. classes upon properly? Does any man wish to see
oral knowledge, and good and virtuous sentiments, those only worshipping God, who are able to build
the political fabric may be secure,as well against O- churches and maintain, ministers for themselves;
peu violence and overthrow, as against the slow but and those children only educated, whose parents
sure underntining: of licentiousness:
possess the means of educating them ? Sir, it is
We know, sirgi that at the present time an at- as unwise as it is unjust, to make property an ob-
tempt is making in the English Parliament to pro- lject of jealousy. Instead of being, in any just
vide by law for the education of the Poor, and that
sense, a popular course, such a course would be
gentleman of distinguished character, (Mr. most injurious and destructive to the best interest
Broughan) has taken the lead, in presenting a of the people. The nature of our laws sufficiently
plan io Government for carrying that purpose into secures us against any dangerous accumulations;
effect. And yet, although the representatives of and, used and diffused, as we have it, the whole
the three kingdoms, listened to him with astonish- operation of property is in the highest degree use-
ment, as well as delight, we hear no principles, l jul, both to the rich and to the poor. If rejoice,
with which we ourselves have not been familiar | sir, that every man in this community may call all
from youth ; we see nothing in the plan, but an
property his own, so far as he has occasion for it,
approach towards that system which has been es- to furnish for himself and his children the bless-
tablished, in this State, for more than a century ſings of religious instruction and the elements of
and a half. It is said, that-in England, not more knowledge. This celestial, and this earthly light,
than one child in fifteen, possesses the means of be- he is entitled to by the fundamental laws. It is
ing taught to read and write ; in Wales, one in every poor man's undoubted birthi-right, it is the
twenty ; in France, untił lately, when some im- great blessing which this Constitution has secured
provement was made, not more than one in thirty- to him, it is his solace in life, and it may well be:
five. Now, sir, it is hardly too strong to say, that in his coösolation in death, that his Country stands
this. State, every child possesses such means. It pledged, by the faith which it has plighted to all
would be difficult to find an instance to the con- its citizens, to protect his children from ignorance,
trary unless where it was owing to the negligence barbarism and vice.
of the parent-and in truth the means are actually I will now preceed to ask, sir, whether we have
used and enjoyed by nearly eycry one.
A youth
not seen, and whether we do not at this moment
of fifteen, of either sex, who cannot both read and see, the advantage and benefit, of giving security
write, is very unfrequently to be found. How
to property, by this, and all other reasonable and
many such can any member of this Convention re- just provisions ? The Constitution has stood, on its
member to have met within ten yours? Sir, who present basis, forty years. Let me ask, what
can make this comparison, or contemplate this State has been more distinguished for wise and
spectacle, without delight, and a feeling of just || wholesome legislation ? I speak, sir, without the
pride? And yet, sir, what is it, but the property, partiality of a native, and also without intending
of the rich, devoted, by law, to the education of The compliment iof a stranger; and I ask, what
the
poor, which has produced this state of things ? Il example have we had of beltér legislation ? No
Does any history show property more beneficently || violent measures, affecting properiy, have been
applied ? Did any government ever subject the attempted.---Stop laws, suspension laws, tender
property of those who have cstates, to a burden, laws, all the tribe of these arbitrary and tyranni-
for a purpose more favorable to the poor, or more cal interferences between creditor and debtor,
useful to the whole community ? Sir, property and whicis, wheresoever practised, generally end in
the power which the law exercises over it, for the the ruin of both, are strangers to our Statute
purpose of instruction, is the basis of the system. Book. An upright and intelligent judiciary has
It is entitled to the respect aad protection of gov- come in aid of wholesome legislation; and gene-
ernment, because, in a very vital respect, it aids ral security, for públic and private rights, has been
and sustains government. The honorable ineniber the result. I do not say that this is peculiar-I do
from Worcester, in contending for the admission
say
that others have not done as well. It is
of the mere popular principle in all branches of enough, that in these respects we shall be satisfied
the government, told us, that our system rested on that we are not behind our neighbors. No doubt,
the intelligence of the coniinunity. He told us sir, there are benefits of every kind, and of great
truly. But allow me, sir, to ask the honorable value, in possessing a character of government,
gentleman, what, hur property, supplies the means both in legislative and judicial administration,
of that intelligence? What living fountain feeds which secures well the rights of property; and
i
this ever-flowing, ever-refreshing, ever-fertilizing ve should find it so, by unfortunate experience,
stream, of public instruction and general intelli- should that character' be lost. There are millions
gence? If we take away from the towns the pow- of personal property, now in this Commonwealth,
er of assessing taxes 'on property, will the school wi'ich are easily transferable, and would be i1:a
houses reman open ? If we deny to the poor, the stantly transferred elsewhere, if any doubt existed
benefit which they now derive from the property of its entire security. I do not know how much of
of the rich, will their children remain on their this stability of government and of the general re-
forms, or will they not, rather, be in the streets, in spect for it, may be fairly imputed 10 tliis particu-
idleness and in vicie ?
lar mode of organizing the Senate. It has, no
I might ask, again, sir, how is it with religious || doubt, had some effect-It has shewn a respect
instruction ? Do not the towns and parishes, raise for the rights of property, and may have operated
money, by vote of the majority, assessed on pro- on opinion, as well as upon measures. Now to
perty, for the maintenance of religious worship? strike out and obliterate it, as it seems to i11c,
Are not the poor, as well as the rich, benefitted by would be, in a high degree, unwise and improper.
the means of attending on public worship, and do As to the right of apportioning Senators upon
they not, equally with the rich, possess a voice this principle, I do not understand how there can
and vote, in the choice'of the minister, and in all be a question about it. All government is a modi-
other Parish concerns ? Does any man, sir, wish fication of general principles and general truths,
to try the experiment, of striking out of the Con- with a view to practical utility. Personal liberty
stitution the regard which it has hitherto main- for instance, is a clear righi, and is to be provides
not
1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
247
ernment.
2
for; but it is not a clearer right than the right of the Constitution creates such right. And this I ap-
property, though it may be more important. It is prehend to be the fallacy of the argument of the
therefore entitled to protection. But praperty is bon. member from Worcester. He contends, that
to be ; when it
and .
Avhen it is renienbered, the smallest town has a right to its representative.
how great a portion of the people of this state pos- This is true; but the largest town (Boston) has a
sess property, I cannot understand how its protec- right also to fifty. These rights are precisely'equal.
tion or its influence is hostile to their rights and 1). They stand on the same ground, that is, on the
privileges.
provisions of the existing Constitution. The hon.
for these reasons, sir, I am in faror of maintain- member thinks it.quite just to reduce the right of
ing that check in the constitution of tlie Legislature, the large town from 'fifty to ten, and yet that there
which has so long existed there.
is no power to affect the right of the small town;
I understand the gentleman from Worcester, either by uniting it with another small town, for the
(Mr. Lincoln) to be in favor of a chéck, but it choiceof a Representative, or otherwise. But I do
seems to me he would place it in the wrong house. not assent to that opinion. If it be right to take
Besides, the sort of check he' proposes appears away half, or three fourths of the representation of
to me to be of a novel nature, as a balance, in gov- the large towns, it cannot be right to leave that of
He proposes to choose the Senators ac- the small towns undiminished. The Report of the
cording to the number of inhabitants; and to Committee proposés that these small towns shall
choose
Representatives: 'not according to that num- elect a member every other year half of them
bar, but in proportions greatly unequal in the town sending one year, and half the next; or else that
corporations. It has been stated to result from two small towns sliall unite iind send one nieinber
computation, and I do not understand it is denied, every year. There is something apparentlyxrreg-
that on his system, a majority of the Representa- ular and anomalous in sending a dember every
tives will be chosen by towns pot containing one. other year; yet perhaps, it is no great«departure
third part of the whole population of the state. Į fron, former habits; because these small towns,
would beg to ask, sır, on what principle this can being bv the present constitution, compelled to
stand; especially in the judgment of those who re- pay ther own members, have not, ordinarily, sent
gard
population as the only just basis of representa- thern oftener, ur the avorage, than once in two
tion? But sir, I have a preliminary objection to
years.
this system ; which is, that it reverses all our com- The honorable member from Worcester founds
mon notious, and constitutes the popular house his argument on the riglu:of town corporations, as
upon unti-popular principles. We are to bave a
such, to be represented in the Legislature. If he
popular Senate of thirty-six members, and we are only mean that right which the Constitution at
to place the check of the systein in a House of Re- present secures, liis observation is true, while
presentatives of two hundred and fifty members !
the Constitution remains unaltered. But if he.
All money bills are to originate in the House, yet intend to say that such right exists, prior to
the House is not to be the popular branch. Ii is the Constitution, and independent of it, I ask
to exceed the Senate seven or eight to one, in whence it is derived ? Representation of the
point of numbers-yet the Senate is to be chosen PEOPLE has heretofore been by towns, because
on the popular principle, and the House on some such a mode has bees thought convenient. Still it
other principle.
has been the Representation of the People. It is
It is necessary here, sir, to consider the manner no corporate mght,to partake in the sovereign power
as heretofore practised, the necessity which'exists right, as a corporate right, the gentleman has enu-
of reducing the present number of Representatives; ! meraied the duties of the town corporation; such as
and the propositions which have been submitted the maintenance of public worship, public schools,
for that purpose.
Representation hy towns or and public highways; and insists that the perform-
lownships, (as they might have been originally ance of these daties gives the town a right to a Rep-
more properly called) is peculiar to New-England: | resentative in the Legislature. But I would ask,
It has existed however, since the first settlement Sir, what possible ground there is for thiş argu-
of the country. These local districts are so ment? The burden of these duties falls not on any
small, and of such unequal population, that if eve- corporate funds belonging to the towns, but on the
ry town is to have one Representative, and larger l people, under assessments made on them individu-
towns as many more as their population compared | ally, in their town meetings. As distinct
with the smallest town, would, numerically, entitle from their individual inhabitants, the towns have
them to, a very numerous body must be the con- no interese in these affairs. These duties are in-
sequence, in any large state. Five hundred posed by general laws; they are to be performed
, members, I understand, may now be constitu- by the people, and if the people are represented in
tionally elected to the House of Representatives; the making of these laws, the object is answered,
the very statement of which number shews the ne- whether they should be represented in one mode
cessity of reduction. I agree sir, that this is a very or another. But; farther, sir'; are these municipal
difficult subject Here are three hundred towns, duties rendered to the state; or are they got rath-
all possessing the right of representation; and re- er performed by the people of the towns for their
presentation by towns, is an ancient habit of the own benefit? The general treasury derives no
mode, so far as may be practicable. There is al-
supplies from all these contributions les no
ways an advantage in making the revisions which of their own inhabitants. If they support schools,
circumstances may render necessary, in a manner it is for the education of the children of their in-
which does no violence to ancient habits and es- habitants; and if they maintain roads and bridges,
tab:ished rules. I prefer therefore, a representa- it is also for their own convenience. And there-
tion by towns, even though it should necessarily be fore, sir, although I repeat that for reasons of ex-
somewhat numerous, to a division of the state into pediency, I am in favor of maintaining !own répa
new districts, the parts of which might have little l'esentation, as far as it can be done, with a proper
natural connexion or little actual intercourse with regard to equality of Representation, I entirely
one another. But I ground my opinion in this res- disagree to the 101101, that every town has &
pect op fitness and expediency, and the sentiments i righi, wlrich'ari alteration of the Constitution can-
of the people; not on absoluto right. The town noi diresi, if the general good require such altera-
corporations, simply as such, cannot be said to tion, to have a Representative in the legislature.----
bave any right to jepresentation ; except so far ns The honorable incuber nas declared that we are
15
248
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION
1
1
about to disfranchise corporations, and destroy ! how this will operate on the large towns.. Bostonis
,
chartered rights. He pronounces this systen of for example, with its twelve or fourteen members
Representation an outrage, and declares that we will pay for fifty. Be it so; it is incident to its
are forging chains and fetters for the people of property and notat all av injustice, if proper weight
Massachusetts. w Chains and fetters !" "This be given to that property, and proper provision
Convention of delegates, chosen by the people, be made for its security .
within this month, and going back to the people, To recur, again, to the subject of the Senate-
divested of all power within another month, yeloc- there is one remark, made by gentlemen, on tlie
cupying their spay of time here, in forging chains other side, of which I wish to take notice. It is
and Letters for themselves and their constituents ! said, that if the principle of representation, in the
* Chains and Fetters A popular assembly of Senate, by property, be correct, it ought to be car:
fqur hundred men, by combining to-fabricate | ried through; whereas it is limited and restrain-
these manacles for the people, and nobody, but the ed, by a provision that no district sball be entitled
honorable member from Worcester, with sagacity to more than six Senators. But this is a prohibi-
enough to detect the horrible conspiracy, or hon- tion on the making of great districts, generally;
Chains and fetters!" not merely a limitation of the effect of the propi
An assembly most variously composed; men of erty principle. It prevents great districts from
all professions, and all parties of different ages, being made where the valuation is small, as well
babits and associations-all freely and recently as where it is large, Were it not for this, or some
chosen by their Towns and Districts; yet this as- similar prohibition, Worcester and Hampshire
sembly, in one short month, contriving to fetter and I might have been joined, under the present consti:
enslaye itself and its constituents! Şir, there are tution, and have sent perhaps ten or twelve Sena.
some thipgs too extravagant for the ornament and tors. The limitation is a general one, introduced
decoration of oratory ;---some things too exces- for general purposes; and if, in a particular in-
sive, even for the fictions of poetry; and I am stance, it bears hard on any county, this should be
persuaded that a little reflection would satisfy regarded as an evil incident to a good and salutary
the honorable member, that when he speaks of rule, and ought to be, as, I doubt not, it will be,
this assembly as conmitting outrages on the rights ) quietly borne,
of the people, and as forging chains and felters for I forbear, Mr. Chairman, to take notice of many
their subjugation, lie does as great injustice to his minor objections to the report of the Committee.
own character, as a correct and manly debater, as The defence of that report, especially in its details,
he does to the motives and the intelligence of this properly belongs to other and abler hands. My.
body.
purpose, ir addressing you, was simply to consider
I do not doubt, sir, that some inequality exists in the propriety of providing, in one branch of the
the mode of representatives, proposed by the com- Legislature, a real check upon the other. And as
mittee. A précise and exact equality is not attain- I look upon that principle to be of the highest
able, in any mode. Look to the gentleman's own practical importance, and as it has seemed to me
proposition. By that, Essex with twenty thousand that the doctrines contended for would go to sub-
inhabitants more than Worcester, would have vert it, I hope I may be pardoned for detaining the
twenty representatives less. Suffolk, which ac- Committee so long.
cording to numbers would be entitled to twenty, Mr. DEARBORN rose in consequence of the
would have, if I mistake not, eight or nine only. allusions which had been made to his remarks by
Whatever else, sur, this proposition may be a spec-
several gentlemen in the course of the debate..
imea of, it is hardly a specimen of equality. As to He thought he had been misapprehended in what
the House of Representatives, my view of the sub- he had said of the governments of Athens and
ject is this. Under the present Constitution the
the towns have all a right to send Répre- \ In allusion to the remarks of the gentleman from
Rome, and explained in relation to those subjects.
sentatives to the Legislature, in certain
Boston, who had last spoken, he said he agreed
fixed proportion to their numbers. It has been perfectly with him in the lucid view he had given
found, that the full exercise of this right fills the
House of Representatives with too numerous a bo-
of the effect of property on government, and in all
his views, except in relation to the basis of
dy. What then is to be done ?-Why, sir, the de-
repre.
legates of the towns are here assembled, to agree,
sentation in the Senate. In reply 10 Mr. Prescott,
mutually, on some reasonable mode of reduction
who spoke yesterday, he said, that Mr. Jefferson,
who had been quoted as an authority, had, after
Now, sir, it is not for one party to stand sternly on
its right, and demand-all the concession from an-
the publication of his notes on Virginia, in soine
measure changed his opinion on the subject in
other. As to right, all are equal. The right which
Hull possesses to send one, is the same as the right question, and Mr D.stated the principles on which
of Boston to send filty. Mutual concession and ac-
Mr. Jefferson had drawn up the model of a con-
stitution for Virginia.
cominodation, therefore, can alone accomplish the
purpose of our meeting. If Boston consents, in-
Mr. MARTIN, of Marblehead, spoke in favor .
stead of fifty, to send but twelve or fifteen, the
of the resolution. He would noi consent to the
small towns must consent, either to be united, in compromise proposed by the resolutions of the se-
the choice of their representatives, with other small
lect committee. He liad no idea of bartering away
towns, or to send a representative less frequently
the rights of his constituents, to have them ask him ·
than every year ; or to have an option to do one or
on his return homem Was this what our fathers
the other of these, hereafter, as shall be found
and brothers fought for in the revolution ? was this
most. convenient. This is what the report of the
what your elder brother died for? He did not like
committee proposes, and, as far as we have yet a compromise, where one party received nothing
learned, a great majority of the delegates from in return for what it gave; and this would be the
small towns, approve the plan. I am willing, there-
case with the county of Éssex, according to the
fore; to vote for this part of the report of the com-
resolutions of the committee.
mittee; thinking it as just and fair a representa- The question on the acceptance of the resolution
tion, and as much reduceri, in point of nuinbers, as ivas then taken, and decided in the negative-164
can be reasonably hoped for, withiont giving up en-
to 247.
tirely the system of representation by lowns. "It is The committee then rose, reported their disa
to be considered also, that according to the report greement to the resolution, and had leave to sit a-
of the committee, the pay of the members is to be gain on the other resolution. ·
out of the pillic treasury. Everygoods must see Adjourned.
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION. .
149
SATURDAY, DEC. 16. ber of Senators, víz:-Suffolk, six-Essex,
The lionse met at 9 o'cloćk, and the journal of six-Middlesex, four Worcester, five
yesterday was read.
Hampshire, Hampden and Franklin, four
On motion of Mr. VARNUM, or Dracut, the re- Berkshire; two-Plymouth, two-Bristol,two
port of the standing Committee on the Declaration Norfolk, three---Bärnstable, Nantucket,
of Riglıts, presented last Wednesday was referred
to a Committee of the whole and assigned for
and Dukes County, two.
Tuesday next at. I o'clock.,
Mr. DANA, of Groton; inquired whether Hanip:
Mr. PRESCOTT, of Boston, offered the follow-
shire, Hainpden and Franklin now form one disa
ing resolutions, viz :
trict.
Resolved, That it is proper and expedient Mr. PRESCOTT replied that they do.
$0 to alter the Constitution, as 'to. previde, Mr. LAWRENCE, of Grolon, said the select
that when any two towns containing less committee did not tbiok proper to interfere with
than 1200 inliabitants, or any towns now u-
the business of the Legislature in regard to t
division of this district; as next year there was to
nited, or town and district now united, for the
be new.valuation, The five Senators which were
purpose of choosing a Representative, and
added to thirty-one, the number which belonged to
another town containing less than 1200 in- the counties in Massachusetts at the time of the
habitants, shall prefer being united for the separation of Maine were apportioned among
purpose of electing a Representative togeth- | tlie valuation. On another point he observed, that
those counties which had the greatest fractions in
er; to choosing one every other year separate-
some gentlenen yesterday supposed there was ng
ly, and shall apply to the Legislature to u- limitation of the several counties to się Senators:
nite them for that purpose, tbe'. Legislature | This limitation was already in the constitution, and
shall unite thein accordingly, and the meet-
as the committee did not propose to make any al-
ings for the election of their Representatives teration in this respect, it was unnecessary to ing
.
shall be held in sứch towns 'alternately, be-
Mr. BLAKE, of Boston, wished some gentleman
ginning with the most populous, uiless they of the select committee to explain what was meant
agree to hold them otherwise, and such towns by the clause " until the General Court shall alter
shall continue so united, until one of them the same." He had very little doubt on the subject
shall increase to 1200. inhabitants.
laimself, but some gentlemen thought these words
Resolved, That it is propër and expedient | save power to the Legislature to form the districts
so that some should have more than six Senatorsa
so far to alter the Constitution, as to provide Mr: PRESCOTT said the intention of the com
that each of the simall towns, and of the mittee was to give the Legislature power to make
towns and districts now united for thepur- new districts, but the provision in the constitution
pose of choosing a Representative, whicli limiting a district to six Senators, remained entire.
contain less than 1200 inhabitants, and which | ties, the Legislature might apportion the Senators
If the taxable property varied in the several coun.
shall not hereafter be united to another anew, conforming to this limitation and not divido
town, shall be entitled to elect a Represen- || ing any county for this purpose, as had been be.
tative every year in which a valuation of fore provided. The resolution followed the phras.
Estates within the Commonwealth shall be leology of the constitution;
settled, provided that the Legislature of that
Mr. PARKER, of Boston, wished the resolution
year, shall never appoint the year in which
to be made more explicit, as one of tlie. principal
difficulties had arisen froin the clashing of the two
the next valuation shall be made.
provisions in the constitution. It was as much a
These résolutions were referred to tlie Com- violation of the constitution to give other counties
mittee of the whole on the Senate, &c.
more Senators than they were entitled to by their
On motion of Mr. PRESCOTT the house went valuation, as it would be to give Suffolk more than
into committee of the whole on the unfinished busi- six. He should wish a provision might be made,
ness of yesterday, Mr. Quincy in the chair. that the surplus valuation of any county should be
The 2d, 3d and 4th Resolutions of Mr. DEAR- apportioned among the other counties vot entitled
BORN were taken up successively and negatived,
to choose six.
without
any
discussion on the merits, being consid- Mr. DANA thought it would be better to post:
ed as depending on his first resolution, which was pone the consideration of this résolution, until it
negatived yesterday.
should we settled in convention what slıould be the
The conimittee then proceeded to the considera- number of Senators ; because if the number thirty
tion of the 4th Resolution reported by the select six should not be adopted, a nevy apportionment
committee, which had been passed over; and was would be necessary. He objected to restricting
as follows, viz:
the Legislature from making two or more districts
Resolved, That it is proper and expedient out of one county: He should not, however; pro-
30 to alter and amend the Constitution as to
pose any specific amendment.
provide; that the several counties in this
Mr.FREEMAN, of Sandwich, moved to amend
Commonwealth, shall be districts for the
che resolution, so that the several counties should
be districts, excepting that Nantucket and Dukes
choice of Senators, until the General Court sliould form one, for the choice of Senators, to be
shall alter the same excepting that the apportigned according to population, and none but
colinties of Hampsliire, Hampden und Frank- freeholders, should be entitled to vote for Senators
lin, sliall form one district for that purpose..
and none should be eligible but such as were seiza
and also that the counties of Barnstable, llars. Mr. F. was going on to state his reasons,
ed of a freehold of the value of one thousand dol-
Nantucket and Dukes County, shall together but was called to order, as the principle of appor-
forma district for the purpose, and that they tioning on population had been once rejected by
Bhall be entitled to elect the following num-
The committee,
20
150
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
A
towns.
1
The Chair decided that the gentleman was not let the Legislature have the power to separate the
in order, and upon an appeal to the committee the towns whenever one of them should apply for it;
decision was confirmed.
there would be perpetual applications for that pur.
Mr. PARKER, of Boston, moved to add to the pose,
resolution. And if it shall so happen that any Mr. PRESCOTT had the happiness to concur
district shall, according to its valuation, be entitled entirely with the gentleman from Marblehead.
to a greater pumber than six Senators, the excess Mr. WARD and Mr. HOAR, of Concord, sup.
shall be apportioned upon any other district or ported the amendment.
districts, not entitled to six Senators, in proportion Mr. HOYT, of Deerfield, inquired whether the
to the public taxes paid by such district or dis- amendment autliorized the Legislature to act with-
tricte."
out a petition from the towns united.
After some slight discussion, the amendment Mr. WARD said he was willing to amend his a-
was withdrawn by the mover.
mendment, by adding" upon application of either
The question being stated on the adoption of the of the towns, though he considered it unnecessary: ;
resolution
Mr. MARTIN said, as this had been compared
Mr. DANA said he had expected the report of to marriage, there should be the consent of both
the Committee would be so altered, that the Sen- parties.
ate should hereafter consist of forty members. The CHAIRMAN said the gentleman was mis.
But the question could not be now arrived at-it taken. There must be a mutual consent to the
had been already 'settled in committee of the anion, but not to the dissolution.
whole, that the number should be thirty-six. If no This amendment to the amendment was agreed
amendment was made in the constitution, in this to.
respect, the number would be 40. It would, there. Mr. SIBLEY, of Sutton, suggested that there
| fore, be improper to accept this resolution, which was an inaccuracy in the resolution. It should be
makes an apportionment of 36 only. He should that each of the towns to be united should have less
move, therefore, that the resolution should be pas- than 1200 inhabitants.
sed over.
Mr PRESCOTT assented, and wished the res-
Mr. WILDE opposed the motion. He saw no
olution might be altered accordingly.
advantage attending it. We had agreed to the re- Mr. NEWHALL, of Lynnfield, wished that it
solution fixing the number at 36, and if that de- might be imperative on the Legislature to disunite
cision was not altered, this resolution would be ne- the towns upon the application of either of the
cessary: If that was changed in convention, this
might be so amended as to correspond with that Mr. WEBSTER, of Boston, objected; for then
decision.
a town, when it had the advantage in respect to
Mr. BÀNISTER, of Newburyport, also op- sending a Representative, might apply to be sepa- .
posed the motion, not because he was opposed to rated.
the proposition of the gentleman from Groton, but Mr. HOYT wished it might be at the discretion
because he thought it would tend to embarrass the of the Legislature to unite the towns, and moved
proceedings. If the motion to fix the number of to substitute “may” for “shall.” It would be un-
Senators at forty should prevail in Convention, I reasonable to unite a town where the minority op-
there would be no difficulty in afterwards making | posed to the union was very large.
a corresponding alteration in this resolution.
Mr. · FREEMAN, of Sandwich, said if there
Mr. Dana withdrew his motion.
was a majority in both towns in favor of a union,
The question recurred on the resolution, which
the Legislature ought to unite them.
was agreed to-210 to 118.
The question was taken for substitutinag “may”
The resolution offered by Mr. Prescott, author- for "shall," and decided in the affirmative-130
izing the Legislature to unite towns entitled, ac-
cording to the report of the Select Committee, to
Mr. FLINT, of Reading, was afraid that if the
choose a Representative only every other year, power was given to the Legislature to unite and
when they should request it with authority to elect disunite at their discretion, it would be made to
a Representative every year, was then tåken up. . serve party purposes. He believed that it would
Mr. PRESCOTT said it was provided, by one produce more quiet and satisfaction to let each
of the resolutions of the Select Committee, that corporation exercise its own privilegos separately.
the small towns containing less than 1200 inhabit- If ever the state should be placed in such an unfor-
ants, should be divided into two classes, and enti- tunate situation as it had been in regard to political
! tled to choose Representatives alternately. It had excitement, this discretion of the Legislature would
been suggested that there might be many towns so most certainly be abused. For this reason he did
situated, that they would prefer being united to not exactly like the resolution before the commit-
gether, with authority to choose a Representative
every year. He saw no objection to giving them Mr. J. WELLES, of Boston, was pleased with
the choice of such an arrangement. The effect on
the intention of the resolution genernlly, but thought
the House would be the same, if they cbose jointly,
the separation should be at the application of both,
as if they chose alternately.. As, therefore, it
instead of either of the united towns. He there-
could be no inconvenience to the public, and as it
fore moved to strike out “either" in the amend-
might make the systemy proposed more acceptable ment, and insert “ both."
to the people of some towns, he had been induced Mr. VARNUM and Mr. WEBSTER said this
to offer the resolution.
could not be done, as the amendment had been a-
Mr. WARD moved to amend the resolution,by ad
dopted.
ding to it the words, “or until it shall be otherwise Mr. WELLES then moved to reconsider the
ordered by the Legislature.” Mr. W. said he thought vote adopting the amendment.
that very few towns would agree to unite, if, when,
Mr. WARD opposed the reconsideration. We
the union was once formed, it was necessary that were adopting a new system. Some of the towns
it should be perpetual Circumstances might might think they were disfranchised, if they were
change, or jealousies might spring up between the
allowed to send a representative only every other
towns, so as to make it extremely difficult for them year. Every facility should therefore be afforded
to act in concert.
to enable them to exercise their rights in the way
· Mr. MARTIN hoped the motion would not pre-
they should prefer; and to save the rights and
vail. He thought it would be very inconvenient to
privileges of the small towns, he had introduced
to 112.
tee,
1
?
1
i
2
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
151
manner.
,
7
the amendment, giving the legislature power to tion of small towns. The large town would not
dissolve the union between two towns, it it should consent to the separation of the small one, any
be found unprofitable. Now gentlemen thought more than Boston to lose a Senator.
the separation should be on the application of both Messrs. HOYT, WELLES and HUBBARD
towns. He thought it unjust to require this, be- expressed themselves in favour of a connection of
cause any town, which derived advantage from the the towns for a limited time, as for ten years or
connection, would of course oppose the separa-
until a new census should be taken.
tion.
Mr. SULLIVAN, of Boston, hoped the motion
Mr. CRANDON, of Rochester, inquired wheth- of the gentleman from Worcester would prevail.
er it was intended to let the towns be joined and
He would leave as little to the discretion of the
disjoined, time. after time ; if so, the legislature Legislature as possible, as they would abuse their
would have business enough on their hands. discretion for party purposes. He would inake it .
Mr. WARD said it was not to be expected, that difficult for the towns to unite, and difficult for
the legislature would permit them to play at fast them to separate when united.
and loose without good reason. The legislature
Mr. STÚRGIS, of Boston did not see how the
would treat frivolous applications in a summary
Legislature could abuse their discretion, as there
would be the same number of representatives elec-
Mr. BALDWIN, of Boston, opposed the recon- ted, whether one was chosen every year by the
sideration.
towns united, or by the separate towns alternate-
Mr. L. LINCOLN, of Worcester, spoke in favor | ly every other year,
of reconsideration. The legislature should not Mr. S. A. WELLS, of Boston, thought a major-
have a discretion in the case; they would abuse it ity of both towns collectively should be required,
for party purposes. Make the provision impera-
otherwise the small town might control the larger,
tive, and the towns will deliberate before they covet although the larger should have more than 1200
a connexion. If, upon full consideration of the
inhabitants.
mutual advantages and disadvantages to arise, the
The CHAIRMAN said the gentleman mistook.
towns choose to enter into a union, it ought to be
When the inhabitants of one of the towns amonnt
for better for worse. He should be opposed to to 1200, it separates of course.
a separation upon the application of both parties. The question was taken on Mr. LINCOLN's
If the legislature, upon such an application as this,
motion and lost.
have any discretion, they will always look to the Mr. PARKER said he was much struck by the
political effect.
remark made by the gentleman from Reading (Mr,
Mr. WEBSTER said the gentlemen had antici- || Flint.). It often happened that a man of good com-
pated him, and more than anticipated him. He mon sense and strong natural intellect, discovers
was of opinion that the legislature should have a what has escaped the
vigilance of men of techni-
a discretion with respect to uniting towns, but if a
cal accuracy. He said it would be unreasonable
connexion should be formed, it ought to continue to require electors to perform the double duty of
forever; unless one of the towns should attain to voting in their own town, and in another, on the
1200 inhabitants, when it might be said to have come same day; he had therefore prepared an amend-
of age and would of course be free by the constitu- ment to remove the difficulty,
tion as proposed to be amended.
The CHAIRMAN said the gentleman was
Mr. WARD said the remarks of gentleman resolution, but the amendment.
out of order, the question not being upon the
were founded upon analogies which did not exist.
Mř. HUBBARD moved to amend the amend-
There was no resemblance between marriage and
the union of towns. Marriage is entered into by
ment of Mr. Ward, by adding.“ Provided howev-
er that no such application shall be sustained hy
the act of the parties themselves, and terminates by
· the death of one of them. In towns there would be
tlie Legislature more than once in ten years, un-
a succession of persons who had no agency in the
less both towns unite in such application, except
question of uniting. Gentlemen ought not to go
in the year succeeding the taking of the cepsus.
upon the supposition of a time-serving policy of the
Mr. PAIGE, of Hardwicke, moved to pass o-
ver this resolution and take up the other one intro-
· legislature ; they should rather go upon the benefit
duced by Mr. Prescott. The small towns would
small towns might derive from this connexion and
trust to the magnanimity of the legislature.
prefer to have the other acted upon first, because
if the present resolution were adopted, it might be
Mr. BLAKE, of Boston, said that as to a union, thought that the other was unnecessary.
there would be a mutual consent of course; but to Mr. PAIGE's motion was negatived 107 to 116.
-require the consent of both towns to a dissolution, Mr. HUBBARD's amendment was adopted
was making a dissolution impossible.
160 to 62.
Mr. FLINT said he had an objection to the res- The question was now upou the amendment as
olution in addition to the one he had before stnt- amended.
ed. The committee had adopted a resolution, that Mr. NICHOLS, of South Reading, opposed it.
the Governor, Lieut. Governor, Senators and He said there never would be any application ex-
Representatives should all be chosen on the 2d
cept for party purposes. The large town might be
Monday of November. He asked, how the inhab.
in the power of the smaller, on account of unanim-
itants of two towns could on the same day, meet in ity in the small town and division in political senti-
their respective towns, for the choice of Governor, ment in the large one, and thus a permanent ma-
Lieut. Governor and Senators, and in one of the jority would be secured. He belonged to a small
towns for the choice of a representative.
town and did not wish for this privilege.
The Chairman said the gentleman was not in On motion of Mr. LINCOLN, the committee
order, as the question was not upon the resolution, rose, reported progress, and had leave to sit again...
upon the reconsideration of the vote adopting On motion of Mr. LINCOLN, it was ordered
an amendment.
that the resolution, with the amendments, should
The question for reconsidering was then taken be printed.
and determined in the affirmative-123 to 104.
Mr.LINCOLN moved to amend the amendment
Leave of absence was given to Mr. CLAPP, of
by striking oils of either.”
Easthampton, on account of sickness in his family.
Mr. BLAKE and Mr FOSTER of Littleton op-
Ordered that when the house adjourns, it shall
posed the motion. Mr. F. begged gentlemen from
adjourn to Monday, at 10 o'clock.
large towns to consider what would be the situa- The house then adjourned
but
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152
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
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tue,
MONDAY, DEC. 18. they could agree, without any act of the Legisläas
The house met át 10 o'clock and 'the joyrıial of
Saturday was read.
Mr. DOANE, of Cohasset, said if the other ress
On motion of Mr. VARNUM, of Dracut, the olutions for enabling every town to be represented
second report of the standing committee on the on the year when the valuation is returned, should
Senate, &c. relating to elections, -as reported by
be adopted, the siriall towns would not wish for the
the committee of the whole on the Senate f.e: was privilege proposed by this resolution.
taken up, in conformity to an order paşsed on
Messis. HAZARD, of Hancock, and TILDEN,
Wednesday last, and the two first resolutions,
of Hanson, were opposed to the system récom.
which propose to alter the constitution so as to mended by the Standing Committee, and to this
provide that the
meetings in towns and districts for
resolution in consequence.
the election of Governour and Liqut. Governour,
The question was taken upon the amendment as
Sénators and Representatives, shall be on the same
amended, and decided in the negative. The reso-
day in eaeh year, yiz : the second Monday in No-
lation itself was then lejected.
vember, and may be continued from day to day
The committee then proceeded to the discus.
not exceeding three days, forthe purpose of choos-
sion of the otỊier résolution introduced by Mr,
ing Representatives, were read a first time and to- Prescott, which, after strikiyg out a clause having
morrow at 9 o'clock, was assigned for a second
refcrencé to'the resolution just rejected, was as
reading
follows, viz. :
The 3d and 4tḥ resolutions,thatitis not expedient
Resolved, That it is proper and expedient
to provide in the constitution that the meetings for so far to alter the Constitution as to provide
the election of Electors of President and Vice that each of the small towns and of the towns
President of the United States and Representa-
and districts now united for the purpose of
țives in Congress, and for the election of town or
county officers shall be on the same day as those choosing a Representative, which contain:
for the election of Governoar, Lieut. Governpur, less than 1200 inhabitants, shall be entitled
Senators and Representatives in the Legislature of to elect a Representative every year in which
this commonwealth, were read and agreed to ; it a valuation of estate within this Common,
not being necessary to give them a second reading,
as they propose na alteration in the constitution,
wealth shall be settled, provided that the le..
The house vyere proceeding to read the first | gislature of that year shall never appoint the
time, tlıę report of the standing committee on the year in which the next valuation shall be .
subject of paths, Subscriptions, &c. as reported by made.
the committee of the whole to whom it liad been
Mr. S. PORTER, of Hadley, moved to amend'
referred.
by adding--Propieled, that any two adjoining towns,
Mr. TUCRERMAN, of Chelsea, said if it was each containing less than 1200 inhabitants, being
in order, he should move a resolution proposing in the same class, and being desirous of belonging
that the Governour, Lieut. Governour, Senators to different classes, shall, upon application to the
aud Representatives should, before they entered General Court for that purpose be so classed,
upon the duties of their office, make the declara. and ever afterwards send one representative every
țion,
other year, until one of them shall_lý its numbers,
61, A. B. do believe in the truth of the Chris-
agreeably to the provisions of this Constitution, be
tian religion.
entitled to send one every year.
Mr. WEBSTER said that as there were to be The amendnient was adopted-107 to 103.
but two readings of the resolutions reported by the The question recurring on the resolution as ao
committees of the whole, the second should be af- mended,
ter they were engrossed. It would therefore be Mr. DWIGHT, of Springfield; opposed it. It
proper to have amendments made at the first read-
ing. He wished the reports already made, might | than their proportion in the system recommended
appeared to him that the large towns gave up niore
,
lie on the table, until other subjectş had passed by the Standing Committee. "They felt the power
through a committee of the whole.
of the reason urged in favor of the measure—that
Mr. HUBBARD, of Boston moved that the rę. the house of Representatives was unwieldy--and
ports lie on the table. The motion was agreed to. they were willing to make great sacrifices. He :
Leave of absence was granted to Mr. Adams, of thought they liad given up bough ; if tliis resolu-
Quincy on acqount of indisposition, and to Mr. Bay- tion prevails, the same difficulty will recur, which
lies, of Wellington, on account of ill health. it was the object of the coinmitlee to guard against,
On motion of Mr. PRESCOTT, of Boston, the The house would hare an increase of seven-,
House went into Committee of the whole on the ty members ou the year of settling a valuation,
unfinished business of Saturday, Mr. Quincy in the He couid see no reason for the small townş having,
Chair.
more than a fair representation when important
The question before the Committee was upon, measures were to be acted upon; the old system
Mr. Ward's amendment, as amended; of the resu- had better be retained.
}ution introduced by Mr. Prescott, providing for u-
Mr. STOWELL, of Perų, said he came from a
niting towus, containing each less than 1200 inhab-
small town. Tlie alterations in the Constitntion in
įtants.
Mr. WEBSTER wished that gentlemen repre-
respect to the House of Representatives, were
those which would be most felt by the community.
senting small towns wouls express their opinions
The reduction in the number of Representatives,
in respicct to the desire of the small towns to be
must be founded on a mutual concession of righis,
united, as his vote vote would be governed by the
sense of the small towns.
He considered the large towns entitled to a rep.,
resentation every year, and they would not be des'
Messrs. Gray of Somerset, Fox of Berkley, prived by the arrangenient proposed; and he conlos
Longley of Bolon, Boylston of Princeton, Bangs sidered it no more than equal, that the small towns
of Hawley, and one other member froin a small should be represented whenever there was a valu:
town, thought the small towns would not avail ation; they would have to pay every year whep
themselves of the liberty of uniting.
they were not represented
Messrs. Baldwin of Egremont and Lanison of Mr. LAIVRENCE, of Groton, said every town
Hamilton, thought the small towns raight like to would be endeavoring to throw the burden off it..
þave the privilege of uniting and separating just as sell when-the valuation was settled, and he thought
.
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
153
)
presented.
1
the small townis ought to be heard as well as the which consisted of approving or négativving the
large ones.
nominations of the Governor, he proposed to trans.
Mr. APTHORP, of Boston, did not conceive fer to the Senate. The other duties he thought
that the small towns gave up the right of being re- could be better performed by proper, officers, ap.
pointed for the purpose. The duty of examining
Mr. STOWELL said the small towps did in fact the returns of votes, could be performed by the
give up a portion of their representation. If two Secretary and his Clerks--the military business by
towns were ciassed, the largest sends the first year. the Governor, Adjutant General and Quarter-Más-
It may be five miles from the small town. What tor General. “A part of the duties which had de-
representation he asked, has the small town this volved on the Council were purely legislative, and
year? He hoped something like the amendment might be more satisfactorily performed by the Le-
of the gentleman from Hadley would prevail, gislature. There were but seven or eight of the
The resolution was adopted-178 to 84.
States of the Union which had any Council. In
The committee then took up Mr. Lincoln's reso- the government of the United States, no difficulty
lutions proposing that every town should send one had been experienced from devolving on the
representative, tons of 3000 inhabitants two, of President the performance of all executive duties,
6500 three, and so on adding 500 to the last in- with the advice of his Cabinet Ministers; the Sen-
creasing ratio. After some debate upon tbc
pro- ate having the power of negativing appointments:
priety of discussing them in the committee which In this State, the duties of the Governor were
had already adopted resolutions repugnant to them, clcarly pointed out, and the person elected to the
they were negatived, with an understanding that office was of such an exalted character, that he
they would-be brought forward again in conven- might be confided in to perform those duties faith-
tion.
fully. He might perform them without a Council
The resolution offered hy Mr. Lyman for dinding more to his own satisfaction, and as much to that
the Commonwealth into districts for the choice of of the people. By dispensing with the Council,
Representatives was taken op.
there would be an annual saving to the State, in
Mr. PICKMAN, said that he was decidedly op- the expenses of government, of several thousand
posed to the system of representation reported by dollars.
the select committee and in favour of that propos- Mr. STURGIS, of Bosion, opposed the resolu-
ed by this resolution. Ho slid not wish liowever tion. He thought it was incumbent on any gentle-
to urge the committee to debate the subject at man proposing a material amendment to the consti-
present, but gave notice that when the report of tution to show that the experience of forty years
the select committee came before the Couvention, had pointed out some serious, inconvenience, or
he shonld move to amend it by substituting the that his proposition was decidedly an improvement
proposition contained in this resolution. The and calculated to give facility to the operations of
question on the resolution was then taken and pas- government. The gentlenyan from Roxbury liad
sed in the negative.
supported his resolution on three grounds :--that it
Mr. NICHOLS's resolution providing that no would facilitate the operations of the executive de-
pecmiary qualification should be required for Sen- partment, it would increase the sense of responsi-
ators or Representatives, was taken up).
bility in the governor, and would be more econom-
Mr. NICHOLS's said he was willing that it ical. Mr. S. did not agree with himn on either of
should he negatived in the committce without de- these grounds. It will not increase the responsi-
bate that he might renew it in the Convention af- bility of the executive. The governor must obtain
ter another resolution of similar import: had been information from some source. He now relies on
'discussed. The question was then taken on the the council, a body of intelligent men, of distin-
jesolution and decided in the negative. 'The can- guished character, who come from the different
mittee rose and reported their agreement to the parts of the state, and feel the responsibility of
resolutions offered by the select committee, and their situations. Each feels a particular responsi-
onc other resolution, and their disagreement to the bility to the people of that part of the country from
other resolutions coininitted to them
which he comes. They look immediately to hin
On níotion of Mr. BLAKE the Coovention went as the adviser in cases where they are particularly
into committee of the whole, on that part of the
interested. He did not think it would be an eco-
constitution relating to the Lieut. Governor and
nomical measure to abolish the council. It would
Council. Mr. Webster in the chair.
oost the state four times as much to have the duties
The CHAIRMAN stated that the subjects re-
performed in any other way. If gentlemen would
ferred to the committee were, the report of the
look to the nature of those duties, they would per-
select committee, which had beco' recommitted,
ceive the utter impossibility of their being perform-
and several independent resolutions relating to the
cd by one man. Among these duties, besides the
Council.
acting upon all executive appointments, were the
settlement of the accounts of the county treasurers,
The subject first taken up was the resolution of- the superintendance of the state prison, particular-
fered by Mr. DEARBORN, SO to anend the consti- | ly the acting upon applications for pardon, which
tution that that part of it wbich relates to the Coun- engage the time and aixention of a committee of
cil shall be inoperative.
the council for nearly a third of the year--the ex-
Mr. DEARBORN said that whçn the state was anining of returns of votes, a duty which he thought
a colony, and the governor was appointed by the sought not to devolve on the secretary---the appointa
king to whom only he was responsible ; it was very ment of pilots and regulation of their fees, and man
proper that he should be surrounded by a council ny other duties, part of which, if not performed by
chosen by the people, who should have a control the council would necessariiy devolve on the legis-
.
over his ineasures. Such a council had existed lature; and other parts which the governor alone
under the colonial government, and besides having could not perform. It might be necessary to ap-
a negative on the appointuienis of the governor | point a board of finance, consisting of persons of
and the proper powers of a councit, they acted as high standing, to whom salaries must be paid. Gen-
a branch of the Legislature, and had a negative on
tlemen are induced to accept a seat in the council
the proceedings of the House of Representatives. by the honor of the appointinent, who would not
Under our constiution where the governor was an- be, for any pecuniary consideration. The duties
pually chosen by the people, responsible to them,
in relation to the State Prison could be in no oth-
and liable to impeachmeni for unisconduct, such a er way-so well performed as by a committee of
usly was not necessa:y. That part of their duties llie council. They were of a responsible nature
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154
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
and demanded much time and attention. It was es since the adoption of the constitution, in which
possible the military business might be well per- the duties of governor had devolved for a consid-
formed if left entirely to the governor, and the ad- erable length of time on the lieutenant governor;.
jutant. and quarter master generals,but there could and had been performed to the acceptance of the
be no harm in having a committee of the council, ll public. He was clearly of opinion, that the office
including men of distinguished military talents and of lieutenant governor was necessary, and that it
information, to superintend those departments.-- was much the best mode of providing for a vacan.
He was satisfied that the duties which devolve on
су which is always liable to occur. In relation ta.
the council, had been beretofore well performed, the council, the committee proposed to make no
and that it could not be in any other way done so alteration, but such as should accommodate it to
economically.
the present condition of the Commonwealth as it;
Mr. PARKER, of Boston, spoke against the was affected by the separation. All the members
resolution. Although in theory it was held to be of the committee thought that seven counsellors,
important that the executive should be singlé, it instead of nine would be now amply sufficient to
was yet found necessary to depart from the princi- perform the duties of the office. The next alteration
ple in some measure in practice. In the British which they proposed, was to dispense with the farce
government the King is obliged to consult the min-
of electing counsellors from the senate, who were
istry and they are made responsible for the meas- not expected to accept the appointment. It had
ures of the executive. The President of the Unit-
been his opinion that it was not the intention of the
ed States is obliged to gather round him his cab- framers of the constitution that the persons chosen
inet. The governor must have advice, he must from the senate should decline the appointment
either consult those whom the people place a- and continue to hold their seats in the senate. But
round him and in whom they conſide, or those on mature reflection he was satisfied that this opina
whom he confides in. If we were now forming a ion was erroneous, and that the persons so elected
new Constitution, he should prefer placing round ought to have the option of declining, and that in
the governor a council selected by the people. many cases it was their duty to decline. Otherwise
There are now particular duties which they have
it would give to the house of representatives the
been accustomed to perform and which iſ the of-
power entirely to control the senate, which could
fice is to be abolished, it would be necessary to never have been the intention of the people in a-
eommit to other hands. It would be necessary to dopling the constitution.' It had been the practice
have a comptroller of the treasury-additional mil-
for fifteen or twenty years past tó elect persons
itary officersma board of pardons and perhaps oth; from the senate, with the expectation that they
er officers with competent salaries, the expense of would decline, and afterwards to choose the coun-
which would be much greater than that of the sellors who were expected to act in that capacity,
council,
from the people at large. The constitution had
Mr. PICKMAN said that as regarded the re- wisely provided that this choice should be made in
sponsibility of the governor, that objoct was as joint convention of the two houses of the legisla-
fully secured now as if there were no council. ture. No persons in the community are so well
The governor is responsible for all appointments, ! qualified as they to make the choice. It was im-
beoause he has the sole power of nominating. The portant that the council should be so constituted
council are also responsible, because no appoint- that they might be disposed to act in unison with
ment can be made without their approbation. He the governor. The governor should not have the
thought that in all the states of the union, there was apology that he could not transact the business of
no one in which the executive was more wisely i his office in the manner which he preferred, because
constituted than in this Commonwealth.
he was opposed by his council. Nor, on the other
The question was then taken on the resolution, | hand, should the council have such an apology.“
and decided in the negative, by a large majority. This barmony of opinions was likely to be obtained
The second resolution, providing that the Lieu- when the council was chosen by the joint vote of
tenant Governor shall be President of the Senate, the two houses of the legislature. The committee
&c. was taken up and negatived.
therefore entirely approved the mode of election
The third resolution also passed in the negatiye. | which had prevailed under the constitution for the
The report of the select committee was then
last fifteen years.
The amendment which they
taken up." The Chairman stated that the commit- | pfoposed was intended only, to make the constitu-
tee had agreed to several of the resolutions in the tion what it had been in effect under a long coutin-
report with amendments, but the convention hav- ued practice, which had been found salutary.
ing recommitted the subject to a committee of the Mi, APTHORP moved to amend the first resol-
whole, without having ratified the proceedings of ution in the manner which had been formerly a-
the first committee, the amendments agreed to, had | greed to by the committee of the whole, viz. to pro-
fallen, and the report must be taken up, de novo. vide that the qualifications of the lieut. governor
The resolutions having been read,
shall be the same as are required for the governor.
Mr. PICKMAN, Chairman of the select com- The amendment was agreed to, and the resolu-
mittee, rose to state the views of the committee.-- tion as amended, adopted.
He said that they had proposed to make no altera- The second resolution which fixes the number
tion in relation to the office of Lieutenant Govern- of counsellors at seven, and the quorun at four
or except to put the qualification on the same foot- was taken up and agreed to.
ing which should be agreed to in relation to the The third resolution was taken up and Mr.
Gorernor. They had thought the ofice of Lien BLAKE moved to amend it, by striking out the
tenant Governor important that the person provi- substantial part of it, and inserting a provision that
ded to fill the executive chair,in case of vacancy by besides the persons chosen for Senators there shall
the death, sickness, or absence of the Governor, be annually chosen, by the people, in each senato-
should be chosen by the people, and should possess rial district an equal number of persons to be re-
the same qualifications as the governor~that he turned as Counsellors. And from the persons thus
should be united with the council, that being the best returned, the two Houses in Convention,shall elect
schopl to qualify hin for the duties of governor.-- certain persons to be Counsellors.
It sometimes happened in consequence of the tem- On notion of Mr. VARNUM, the Committee
porary absence of the governor, that unless the rose, reported progress and had leave to sit again.
lieutenant governor was able to act as chief magis- Mir. SIBLEY, of Sutton, moved that when the
trate the business of the departinent would be nc- House adjourned they should-adjourn to this after-
eessarily suspended. There had been four instanc-
noon at half past 3 o'еlock. He theught they
}
A
1
sound one,
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
155
might spend the afternoon profitably, at least as latter mode he considered a, direct violation of a
much so as they had this forenoon. He afterwards fundamental principle of the Constitution The
withdrew his motion and it was moved that after practice which had prevailed for the last fifteen
this day except on Saturdays there should be two
years had been productive of two evils. It had de
sessions each dav' Agreed to--158 to 107. prived the people of their voice in the election of
Mr. STURGIS gave notice that he should to- counsellors, and had increased the senate beyond
morrow move for a reconsideration of this vote.... the number originally intended. It had been argu.
A motion to print the resolution offered by Mr. ed that by the usage of the last fifteen years.a prac-
Blake was negatived.
tical construction had been given to the constitu-
Adjourned.
tion conforming to the modo proposed by the select
conimittee. He contended that the practice had
not been such as to authorize this inference. No
TUESDAY, Dec. 19. Senator or Representative had ever pretended that
The House met at 9. o'clock, and attended they had a right to elect Counsellors, without first
prayers offered by the Rey. Mr.Jenks. The jour- | making choice of those who had been returned by
nal of yesterday was then read,
the people. But if the practice had been other-
Mr. DANA, of Groton, introduced a resolution wise, no usage, no acquiescence in a custom in
proposing to abolish the office of Solicitor Gen- violation of the constitution, could deprive the peo-
eral; after a vacancy shall take place in that office. || ple of their rights. It was argued in favour of the
Referred to a Committee of the whole, and as- mode proposed by the select committee, that a
signed for tomorrow, at 9 o'clock.
choice by the representatives of the people was a
The first resolution of the second report of the
choice by the people. He contended that the
standing Committee on the Senate, &c. proposing maxim qui facit per alium facit per se though good'in
to alter the Constitution so as to provide that the law, was not a sound principle in politics. It was
meetings of towns and districts for the choice of argued that the mode of electing by the Legislature
Governor, Lieut. Governor, Senators and Repre- was the most convenient. On this principle, if a
sentatives shall be held on the same day in each
the people ought to be deprived of the
year, and that said meetings may be continued power of making all elections. He proceeded to
from day to day not exceeding three day's for the consider the other arguments that had been urged
purpose of completing the choice of Representa in favour of choosing by the Legislature, and the
tives, received a second reading.
objections to the election by the people. The
Mr. HUBBARD, of Boston, opposed the re- proposition of the select committee, went to de-
solution. He thought it was useful to have the prive the people of their voice in the election for
election of representatives on a different day that reason he was not prepared to assent to it.
from that, on which the other officers of the gove Mr. ĐUTTON, of Boston said no subject had
ernment were elected, in order to represent the been so fruitful in projects as this relating to the
different state of popular feeling which might take Council. There were three before the Committee,
place.
besides the one reported by the select Committee.
The resolution passed.
The best argument for that of the select Committee
The second resolution fixes the day for holding was, that all the other projects were full of incon-
these meetings, viz. the 2d Monday of November. veniences and difficulties. It was said lo be a fun-
Mr. LINCOLN, of Boston, moved to substitute damental principle that the people should chocse
Wednesday for Monday.
the Counsellors; he did not understand : this lan-
The motion was negatived after a slight debate, guage. The people had as much a right to choose .
in which Mr. Lincoln supported it, and Messrs. || sheriffs, judges, &c. It was said that a choice of
Quincy, of Boston, and Foster, of Littleton, op- Counsellors, who form a part of the Executive, by
posed it.
the Legislature, was an intermingling of the pow-
Mr. COBB, of Orange, moved to substitute Oc- ers of the distinct branches of Government.-
tober for November.
It was no more so than that the Judiciary
The motion was negatiyed and the resolution should be appointed by the Executive. The
passed.
true principle was, that the different depart-
The Convention then went into committee of ments should exercise distinct powers. The right
the whole on that part of the Constitution relating to change the mode was as clear as the right to
to the Council, Mr. Webster in the chair.
make any other change in the Constitution. The
The amendment offered yesterday by Mr. Blake only question was, as to the expediency. Was it
to the 3d resolution of the select committee, being | convenient, and for the inierests of the people,
read;
that the Counsellors should be elected in the mode
Mr. BLAKE rose to support the amendment.- proposed in this amendment ?' It would be trouble-
He said, that in speaking on all questions on which some to vote for so many candidates, and difficult
he had risen in the convention, he had endeavored to agree in the selection of so many. Would gen-
to concentrate his remarks and to occupy as little tlemen qualified for the office consent to be candi-
time as possible. He thought he had not been in dates, and submit their characters to public scruti.
fault for the great consumption of the time of the ny, when, if elected by the people, they would liave
convention on the subject now before the commit- but one chance in five of obtaining the office, and
tee. In relation to the proposition which he had twenty-nine out of thirty-six niust be laid on the
now submitted, he was not tenacious about its de- shelf | How would the candidates be selected ?
tails give him the principle that in elections, of It must be either by the Legislature, in which case
counsellors they should be chosen by the people, all the arguments would apply which have been
and he was indifferent in what manner it was mod- urged against an election by the legislature, or in
ified. This was the only principle which he con-
some other mode liable to greator objections. In
sidered essential. The proposition to elect in dis- both cases the boasted right of choice goes for
tricts, as well as that to restore the mode provided nothing. He thought the plan proposed by the
by the Constitution had been rejected. The prop-
select committee recommended itselt to the peo-
osition to choose by a general ticket, to be sure,
ple. It was conforınable to the practice under
had passed the committee of the whole, but by só the constitution and he was satisfied that practice
small a majority, that he was willing to consider it was correct. He thought it preferable that the
as rejected. The only choice therefore, was be- legislature should choose from the people at large,
tween the proposition which he had made and that
rather than from a limited number. They would
of electing by the members of the legislature, The thus bo able to select persons best qualified and
156
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
.܀
command a variety of talents suited to the differ- || consulting the wishes of the people. He hoped
ey
that the amendment would not prevail, and that
only interest of the people was that they sliould tlie resolution reported by tlie select committee
have a gdod council. They want good Judges, but would pass. without any anaendment..
it does not follow that they must choose then. He Mr.PÄRKER; of Boston, said:be respected the
was not accustomed to make professions about the professions which he had heard of regard for the
people's rights. He would do every thing for the constitution, for he presumed they were sincere.
people, but not every thing by the people,
But they did not all appear to him to be entirely
Mr: MORTON, was opposed to the resolution consistent with the propositions which gentlemen
as it stood. He had offered a proposition which had supported. One gentleman had brought for-
should provide lor the election of one person by ward a detailed scheme which he had supported
the people to be returned from each senatorial by a long argument intended to show that his sys:
district, out of which seven counsellors should be len was the best that could be presented. Assoon
elected by the legislature. This agreed in sub- as he sat down hoivever, he gave it up for another,
stance with the proposition before the committee, different in principle, as well as in its details. The
except in regard to the number of persons to be gentleman from Borchester bad proposed that in
returned by the people. He was opposed to give cach senatorial district, one person should be chose
ing the legislature so wide a range in their choice. en by the people to be candidate for counsellor.---
He therefore moved to amend the resolution un- Of these persons, who must be ten at least in num
der consideration, by substituting that which he ber, seven only were to be chosen by the Legisla-
had before submitted.
ture for counsellors; or if it should happen that
Mr. BLAKE, said he had before stated that he seven only should be chosen by the people, they
was tenacious only of the principle, and not anx- are to form the council. What is to become of
jous ahout the particular number of persons to be the voice of the people in the other districts ?---
chosen by the people. He therefore withdrew liis Why giye seven counties the voice of the people
resolution to give place to that offered by the gen- in the choice of counsellors, and give the Legisla-
tleman from Dorchester, The resolution offered ture the power to thwart the wishes of tlie people
by Mr. Morton, was then read. It provides that in the three other districts. It appeared 10 him to
there shall be annually. chosen by the people of have only the semblance of giving the choice 10
cach senatorial district one person to be returned the people, and in fact to deprive the Legislature
to the general court, out of whom the two branch- of the power of choosing to the best advantage:
es by joint ballot, shall choose seven to be coun: The amendment first proposed he considered the
sellors.
best of the two, because it afforded the widest ficld
Mr. MORTON contended that the practice for selection. But the proposition of the select
which had prevailed was a violation of the cousti- committee was still better, because it gave the Leg-
tution and ought to be corrected. In what man- islature the whole commonwealth to choosc from.
per should it be done? It was a fundamental The gentleman from Dorchester had declared it 10
principle of a free government, that the executive be his object to restore jis substance the original
should be chosen by the people. This had been plan of the constitution. Yet he had proposed 10
intended by the framers of the present Constitu- provide that iſ a vacaney occurred while ihe Leg:
tion. They had no idea that the persons chosen islature wcre not in session, it was to be supplicd
by the people as counsellors and senators, selected by the Governour and Council. This was a
by the legislature as counsellors would alí declmc. terial departure from the constitution much
The principle could only be restored to the con- greater than to give the members of the Legisla-
stitution, by giving the choice to the people.-- iure delegated with authority for this very object;
He had preferred that this should be done the power of choosing the council
. This had been
by election in districts. But gentlemen i said to be a departure from the principles of a free
did not like this mode, and had rejected the pro- government and opposed to the wishes of the peo-
position for that object. It was necessary tere- plc. Ve liad just had the example of Maine
fore to resort to some other mode, and this he con- brought up under onr own constitution—the child
sidered the best. It restored a lundaincntal prin- of republicanism in its strongest sense, forming a
ciple of the constitution, and for that reason he was constitution with a full sense of the people's riglits,
in favor of'it.
which contains the very provision for the choice of
Mr. THORNDIKE hoped that in deciding upon their council which is recommended by the select
this amendment, they should decide upun all amend-li committec. This constitution had been adopted
ments to the proposition of the select comunittee.-- by the people of that state, by the immense majority
They appeared in him to be in substance the same of 24000 roles in favor olit and only 800 against it:
thing. The question to be decided was, what was In Virginia, once the ancient dominion, now the
the best mode of selecting seven counsellors, so as queen of republics, the governour was chosen by
to obtain men best qualified. He thought the mode the two houses of the legislature. It was the same
which had been adhered to in practice under the in several other statcs. He thought the only way
constitution was the best. Gentlemen had contend- to get rid of the cmibarrassment the committco
ed that it was liable to abuses. He had for many were in, was to adopt the resolution reported by
years had a seat in the legislature, and he had seen the select committee.
no such abuses. It was the most simple, and he Nir. BOND said that the proposition before the
thought the most satisfactory mode. It was a mode committee was so perplexed and aliended with so
in which men best qualified, from every part of the many difficulties that lie thouglit that the gentleman
Commonwealth could be obtained, and men most who offered it would not himself vole for it, if he
Hkely to meet the approbation of the people. The woulel look into all its cousequences. Tlie, Sena
people could judge and compare their opinions in torial districts must be at least ien. From the per
no other way so well as through their represental- sons returned by these districts the Legislaturo
tives in the iwo branches of the legislature. It was were to select scven for Counsellors. They might
a power little likely to be abused. It was the first or might not be from different parts of the Com-
aci performed by them after coming together from monwcalth. If it happened that only seren were
among their immediate constituents. If they did chosen they were to form the Council. In either
901 consult the wishes of their constituents in the case there might be 110 counsellor from either of
election of counseliois, as well as in tlieir other the three great western districts. He proeceded
duties, they would nut be again elected to their 10 point out some other consequences that would
seats. This would give them a sufticieut interest in result from the scheme, and the sonplexliess of
ma-
#1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
its details. The gentleman had observed that the number of counsellors as large as that oftlie sen-
there had never been a failure in the choice of atorial districts. He did not care however so much
Senators. This he apprehended was a great mis- about the particular arrangement, as about the
take. There had been a failure of election by the principle, that the people should make the elec-
people in some district or other, almost every tión. "It was never suggested that the Governoi
year, and the deficiency had been supplied in the and Lieut. Governor should not be chosen by the
constitutional mode. He hoped the amendment people, and he could see no reason why two ninthis
would not be adopted, and that the resolution of of the executive should be chosen one way and sevs
the Select Committee would be adopted without en ninths in a different way. It had been said thiat
amendinent.
if the people choose their Representatives,and their
Mr, LINCOLN said that he would reply to the Representatives choose Counsellors, the Counsel
gentleman from Dorchester by the argumentum ad lors are chosen by the people. The same argu.
hominem ; with that species of argument, that gen- ment night apply to choosing the Governor. Folo
tlemen was well acquainted. He had expressed a low the argument out, and it pioves absurd. It
great regard for the voice of the people, and he had never been proved that the agent will act in
had voled for an apportionment of the Senate ac- all respects like the principal. The majority of
cording to valuation-by that inode of apportion- the Legislature would not, in many cases, have e:
ment there may be seven districts from which all lccted the same person for Governor, whom they
the counsellors may be chosen, which shall yet con- had thought necessary to noninate, in a legisla-
tain hut one third of the population of the Com- tive caucus, for the people to choose.
monwealth.
Mr. A. mentioned the argument, which lie
Mr. MARTIN hoped the convention were not said had not yet been answered, that the present
prepared to give up all the rights of the people.- node of choosing counsellors was a commingling of
According to the argument of the gentleman from the powers of the different branches of the
Boston, it might be proved, that the people had no government. He said this act of sovereignty, in
right to choose Governor and Senators. When we the choice of counsellors, ought to be performed
were discussingthe resolution about representatives by the people themselves and not by their agents,
the delegates from the small towus were called up. and the contemporaneous exposition of the consti-
on to give their opinions. They all came round tution to which the practice had conformned for
and looked like lainbs, ready for the slaughter.--- twenty-five years, ought to have great weight. It
If those 14,3 towns were illegitimate, let us say so. appeared by the records of the former convention,
Iftliey are not, let us give them a' voice in the that a motion was made to give the Legislature
choice of counsellors. He quoted the opinion of power to choose at once from the people at large,
the gentleman from Quincy, to prove that it was and was negatived. This showed the practice of
the intention of the framers of the constitution the last fifteen years was a departure from the in-
that the counsellors chosen from the Senate, should tention of the framers of the constitution. He did
accept the appointraent. He said that he consid- not blame any party ; it was rather to be wondered.
ered the report of the committee was wrong, and at that the passions of the day bad not made great-
he should vote against it, as long as he could stand. er rents in the garment of the state. Mr. A. -
Mr. STURGIS said that if the amendment pre- ged some reasons in favor of having a diversity of
vailed, it ought to be considered ibat the legislature opinions among the members at the Council Board..
in making their selection of counsellors would al- He complained of soine remarks, made by a gen-
prefer of same political opinion tleman the other day, when he similar
the majority , and that those sentiments on the subject before the committee, in-
districts which returned persons of political opiu. sinuating that he was making a popular appeal.
ions opposed to those of a majority ofthe legislature, He exclaimed against the baseness of attempting,
would never be represented in the council, provid- in that assembly, to court popular favor and said,
ed there were enough returned of opposite opin- that while he held a seat there, which was
ions to make up the whole puuber.
the first he had ever held in an assembly
Mr. DAWES, of Boston-Mr. Chairman, it ap- of that kind, and might, perhaps be the last,
pears to me the subject lias been exhausted, and I he should endeavor to act with that consistens
doubt whether any gentleman here can throw any cy, which gives respect to error,- and with
light upon it. I rise therefore, simply to call for that integrity which gives confidence to truth.
the question,
and that is my speech, Sir.
Mr. SÍBLEY, of Sutton, said the amendment
Mi: FREEMAN, of Sandwich, observed that might be made a little more palatable to him. He
he was constrained to say be was opposed to the moved to annend it by adding provided, neverthe-
amendment. He regretted that so much time of less, that the legislature shall not leave any district
the Convention had beeu wasted,upon this and other without a counsellor two years in succession."
absurd propositions of the gentlemau froin Dor- This amendment was adopted.
chester.
The question recurred upon the amendment as
The CHAIRMAN called the gentleman to or- amended.
der.
Mr. FLINT, of Reading, said this proposition
Mr.F.said hestood correeted He proceeded. The had been discussed in the select coinmittce, and
amendinent offered by the gentleman from Boston, that of twenty one in that committee, tirenty were
(Mr. Blake,) had his sanction as it went to forun á in favor of the resolution reported by the committee.
Legion of Honour, constituted by that great em- The object of that resolution was to prevent the
perour, the people ; but he should vote against the Legislature meeting twice in convention, 10 choose
amendment now under consideration, as he agreed counsellors, where once would be sufficient. It was
with the learned gentleman from Boston, (Mr. I thought that a better council would be chosen by
Parker,) that it would not remedy the evil com- the Legislature than in any other way. He bega
plained of, viz. an election by the Legislature. ged gentlemen to remember, that if all the prop.
Mr. AUSTIN, of Boston, was aware of the im- ositions in respect to the council should be reject-
patience of the committee, but be thought their ed, the constiiution nevertheless would be sound;
time could not be better spent than in inquiring and he hoped, if the resolution of the select com-
how they ought to vote on this inportant question. mittee should not be adopted, that the constitution
He did not approve entirely of the amendment of would remain as it is.
the gentleman from Dorchester, because a part of Mr. WHITTEMORE, of West Cambridge, was
the districts would not be represented. If it should
opposed to taking from the people the right of
prevail, at a proper time he skould more to make choosing counsellors, . Gentlemen might as well
21
158
MASSACHUSETTS. CONVENTION.
say that the people were incapable of electing go- it majority m both bodies. There would also usuális
vernor; lieutenant governor and senators, as that be a minority in both, and this he considered the
they were incapable of choosing counsellors. He most beautiful feature of the scheine. The princi
had made in the sclect committee the same prop- ple was substantially the same whicli prevals in
osition which is now made by the gentleman from thc senate of the U. States, which has a negative
Dorchester; and the gentleman from Reading was on the nominations of the president. Tlie system
mistaken in saying that twenty of the select com- continues the advantages of a popular scheme, and
mittee were in favor of the resolution reported, as secures before the choice is completed, the wisdom
five.were absent wlien it was agreed upon.
of a deliberative and seloct body.
Mr. FLINT rose to explain, but Mr. Dutton was Mr. SLOCUM, of Dartmouth,said he had listen-
on the floor.
ed with a great deal of attention to gentlemen who
Mr. DUTTON pointed out the operation of the
had spoken and differed from them in a great many
proviso, introduced by the gentleman from Sutton,
positions. He should now take his political text,
and showed that it would not produce the effect
and interlarda
intended. The original amendinent gave the Le- gentlemen had done, vos pomuli vox Dei. The voice
gislature power to interfere only in two cases, viz.
of the people is the voice of God. This is the prin-
when more than seven, and when less than seven
ciple of the constition. If we do not adopt the
counsellors were elected by the people. If the
proposition before the committee, the people will
people chose only seven, those seven were to
lose ther'voice. There will be 140 towns that every
serve; and they might be chosen, time after time,
other year will have no voice. Why should we
from the same districts, leaving the other districts
curtail them of their rights ? The constitution
unrepresented for more than two years in succes-
should be made congenial with the genius of the
sion.
people. The people will examine it with a step as
The question was taken on Mr. Morton's amend- steady as time, and with an appetite as keen as
ment as amended, and decided in the negative,
death. He hoped the amendment would pass, and
201' o 183.
that it would accord with the genius of the people,
The question recurred on the third resolution of The question on Mr. Leland's abenduent was
the select committee.
taken and decided in the negative-216 to 103.
Mr. LELAND, of Roxbury, moved to amend
The question recurring on the resolution report-
ed by the Select Committee,
the resolution by striking out the substantial part
Mr. FOSTER said he'should vote for the reso.
of it, and inserting the 2d and 3d resolutions for-
lution, with an understanding, that in Convention
merly proposed by him, providing that the persons
he should endeavor to bave the Constitution re-
returned as counsellors and senators shall desig-
main as it is, in respect to the manner of choosing
nate from their own body
persons to act as
Counsellors. That mode was the 'best, and the
counsellor's, and that the persons so designated
shail cease to act as senators, and the persons left
one pow proposed was the next best. The Con-
stitution had been tried a great many years, and it
shall constitute the senate. He said it was obvious
had come out of the furnace like silver seven times
that there was a great diversity of opinion respect-
tried.
ing the most proper mode of electing counsellors.
Mr. HUBBARD said he should vote against thic
Various modes had been proposed, and all had been
rejected but that offered by the select committee, quired no amendment in this respect. The gentle-
resolution, because he thought the Constitution re-
and that which he had offered. There seemed to
men who wish the Counsellors to be chosen by the
he no alternative but to adopt one of these two-
people, and those who wish them to be chosen by
He proceeded to consider what were the duties of
the legislature, have both their desire in the presa
the council. In five cases only which he stated,
ent mocie, and if so much is said here aboui tho
they had a 'negative on the acts of the governor
people's rights, the same argument will be made a
but in all other cases they acted only as his advis-
handle of in the meetings of the people for acting
ers--- he might accept their advice if it was wise,
or might reject it if he though it foolish. It was a
upon the amendments proposed by this resolution.
Mr. LITTLE, of Newbury, spoke in favour of
fundamental principle of republican governments, l retaining the Constitution as it is, and against the
that powers which could be conveniently and un-
resolution.
derstandingly exercised by the people, should be
exercised by them directly. In the mode proposed
The question was taken upon the resolution and
decided in the affirmative-187 to 1978.
by bim there was no inconvenience, and if they. The 4th Resolution of the Select Committce,
could exercise their power understandingly in the
choice of senators, they could do it with as much
proposing that not more than one Counsellor shalí
be chosen out of any one County, was adopted
intelligence in the choice of counsellors, But it
without debate.
was said there would be an embarrassment from its
The fifth Resolution, respecting the time of ma-
not being knows who were to be counsellors and
king elections by the Legislature, was adopted in
who were lo be senators. He saw no difficulty on
blank.
this ground, for whocver was qualified for one of-
fice would be qualified for the other. It was ac- land roported its agreement to the resolutions
On motion of Mr. DANA, the Committce rose
mitted that the counsellors should come from differ-
of the select committee with an amendment to the
: ent parts of the commonwealth. How were they first resolution, their disagreement to those offered
to be obtained ? He thought it should be in a man-
ner'that would make it sure that the people of the
by Mr. Dearbora ; that they had acted upon the
other subjects committed to them in the form of
part of the state from which they are sclecied shonld
amendments to the third resolution of the select
have confidence in them. This object would not
'be obtained if they were chosen by the legislature.
comunittee, and they asked leave to be discharged
There should be persons from the differcni parts of
from the further considciation of the subjects of
those amendments.
the commonwcalth who would.represent the opinions
and wishes of the different parts. The minority as
The committee was discharged accordingly anal
well as the majority should be represented. This
the report was laid on the table.
Mr. STURGIS made it motion for a reconsid-
mode would gain the object, williont bcing liable
eration of the vote passed yesterday for holding
to the objections which had been made to that of
selecting by both branches of the legislature. The
two sessions in a day. After a slight debate the
senate being an even nuniber, if it had a majority
l'otc was reconsidered 175 to 156.
in favor of particular opinions, could always make
Leave of absence was given to Mr. Elibu Sle-
the selection in such a 1112111X as to presory that
cum, of Dartmouth, on account of ill health.
The house adjourned,
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
159
WEDNESDAY, DEC. 20. Mr. CHILDS, of Pittsfield, moved the following
The Convention met at 8 o'clock and attended
as a substitute for the 3d Art. of the Declaration of
prayers offered by the Rev. Me. Jenks. The | Righits, viz. :
As the happiness of a people and the good
MISTARKWEATHER, of Worthington, order and preservation of civil government
moved that a committee be appointed to inquire essentially depend upon piety, religion and
what business now before the Convention or in
morality, and as these cannot be generally
committee the public interests requires should be
done, and at what time an adjournmeut or rising
diffused through a community but by the in-
of the Convention may take place.
stitution of the public worship of God; and
The resolution was agreed to, and Mr. Prescott, as it is the unalienable right of every man to
of Boston, Stark weather of Worthington, Paige of|render that Worship in the muode most con-
Hardwick, Hoar of Concord, and Davis' of Plym-
outh were appointed.
sistent with the.dictates of his own concience ;
Mr. PHELPS, of Chester, offered the follow- no person shall by law be compelled to join,
ing as a substitute for tlie third article of the Dec- or support, nor be classed with, or associated
laration of Rights, viz :
to any congregation or religious society what-
Although it is the indispensable duty of all
ever. But every person now belonging to
rational creatures to worship and adore the any religious society whether incorporated
great Creator, and in order to discharge this
or unincorporated, shall be considered a
and other religious duties, it is necessary that member thereof until ho shall have separated
men frequently assemble together ; yet, eve- himself therefrom in the manner hereinaf-
ry person being, individually, accountable to
ter provideda
God, and to God only, for the discharge, or
And each, and every society or denomina-
the neglect of this and of every other relig- tion of Christians in this state,shall have and
ious duty, the religion of every man, and the enjoy the same and equal powers, rights and
manner of discharging every religious duty, || priviliges; and shall have power and author-
must be left to the reason and conscience of \ity to raise money for the support and main-
every man, and so must be exempt from the
tenance of religious teachers of their respec-
control or cognizance of civil government : tive denominations, and to build and repair
Therefore, no man ought to be compelled to houses of public worship, by a tax on the
attend any religious worship, or to the erec- members of any such society only, to be laid
tion or support of any place of worship, or to | by a major vote of the legal voters assembled
the maintenance of any ministry, against his
at any society meeting warned and held ac-
own free will and consent. And no power cording to law.
shall or ought to be vested in, or assumed by, Provided neverthieless, That if any person
any civil authority, or imagistrate, that shall, shall choose to separate himself from the so-
in any case, interfere with, or control the
ciety or denomination to which he may be-
rights of conscience, in the free exercise of long, and shall join himself to another society
religious worship or discharge of religious of the same or a different denomination, he
duties.
shall leave a written notice thereof with the
Provided always, That no man or sect Clerk of such society, and shall thereupon
shall be allowed to disturb the public peace, be no longer liable for any further expenses
or molest others in the exercise of their relig- which may be incurred by said society,
ious rights or duties.
And every denomination of Christians de-
Provided also, That those religious socie- meaning themselves peaceably, and as good
ties that have heretofore been accustomed to citizens of the Cominonwealth, shall be e-
support public religious worship, and their qually under the protection of the law. And
public teachers by a tax on their members,
110 subordination of any one sect or denomi-
shall be allowed to continue such practice or nation to another, shall ever be established
custom, and every person now a member of by law.
such society shall continue so, until he shall Referred to the Committee of the whole on the
direct otherwise by his written certificate Declaration of Rights.
filed in the town clerk's office ; but no other
DECLARATION OF RIGHTS.
On motion of Mr. BLAKE the Convention went
person shall hereafter be considered as belong-
into committee of the whole, on the report of the
ing to such society, until he shall certify his select committee to whom was referred the Dee.
desire to become a member of such society laration of Rights, Mr. Varnuin in the chair.
by writing, which writing shall be lodged The Report having been read,
with the clerk of said society.
Mr. BLAKE roge. He said that he was one of
Referred to the committee of the whole on the
the select committee to whom was referred the in-
Declaration of Rights.
teresting and important subject involved in the nino.
Mr. SALTONSTALL, of Salem, moved the l'esolutions now before the committee of the whole,
following resolution, viz :
and in the absence of the chairman of the select
That it is not expedient to make any al- | committee, in consequence of severe indisposition,
teration in the 3d article of the Bill
of Rights representative, to state his views, and those of the
and at his request, lie stood there, as his humblé
except to provide that the word “ Christianº
committee on this subject. He regretted extreme-
shall be substituted for the word “Protes-y the absence of that gentleman. "It was a subject
mnt."
in which he took great interest, and on which he
Referred to the same committee.
would have throwngrouch light. The select com:
6
160
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
If it was
1
mittee were impressed with the great importance || worship of God and of public instructions in piety,
aņd with the embarrassments of the subject, and religion and morality; therefore the people of the
with the weighty consequences which might result commonwealth have a right to invest the legisla--
from any rash alterations which
might be made in ture with power to require towns, parishes and
this part of the constitution. They admired the precincts to make suitable provision for the insti-
soundness of the principles, laid down in relation tution of the public worship of God.” The principle
to the support of religious' worship-priụciples was laid down in so forcible and irresistible a man.
which are applicable not only to this community, ner, that no one could deny its truth. No gentle-
but to every civilized community in the world, and man of the committee questioned the correctness of
also the manner in which those principles were ex- either of these principles. It seemed as if the po-
pressed. The language was so forcible,and the con- sition was hardly broad enough. Instead of saying
clusions so irresistible that the committee were de- that the happiuess of a people essentially depends
sirous rather to vindicate the alterations which they on piety, religion, and moralily, it might be insist-
had proposed, than to apologize for not of ed that without them there could be no happiness
fering further alterations. He would first go
in
over, briefly the six or seven immaterial subjects true that religion and morality were essential to
which the Committee had recommended to the at-
or of the Convention, and afterwards proceed
the happiness of a people, and the good order and
preservation of government, it was the right and
to the three principal propositions which the Come'll duty of the people, in laying the foundations of their
mittee had submitted. The first resolution pro- government, to deal with them in such a manner as
poses to alter the word “ subject" in the several would secure their influence. The second propo-
places where it occurs in this part of the Constitu- sition was, that the institution and support of public
tion to “citizen" or "person.” This alteration worship were necessary for the diffusion of piety,
had been proposed, under the idea that the Con- religion and morality. If any worship was neces-
stitution was to be proposed in a new draft, and sary to the good order and happiness of a commu-
that in tbat case the alteration would be proper.--- nity, it must be public worship. The worship of
In the fifth resolution a slight change is proposed the cell and the cloister had nothing to do with so-
in relation to the manner of making defence in ciety. The third proposition was an inference from
criminal cases. It was thought proper to extend the other two it is therefore the right and duty of
to the person accused the right of being heard by the people to invest the legislature with power to
himself and his counsel instead of by himself or his make provision for the support of public worship
counsel. In the sixth resolution they had proposed Mr.B.asked if the conclusion was not suchan one as
to make an alteration in the article relating to the every gentleman must draw from the premises.
right of maintaining armies so that it should con- It was however provided in other parts of the in-
form to the Constitution of the United States. Al- strument that every individual should be allowed
thougb, whatever in the Constitntion is repugnant to worship according to the dictates of his own
to that of the United States was ipso facto repealed, conscience, and all that was proposed, was, that
by the adoption of the latter, it was nevertheless every individual should be required to contribute ;
proper if the instrument was to be drafted a- in some form or other tewards the support of pub.
new, that it should be made to conform in its lic worship. Some gentlemen of the Committee
terms to what is its legal effect. The alter- did question the correctness of the conclusion,
ations specified in the Tih, 8th and 9th resolu- drawn by the framers of the constitution. They
tions were proposed with the same view, and for argued thai religion would take care of itself, and
the same object. They were all proposed therefore every thing might be safely left to each.
on the supposition that the constituton would be individual to give it that support which he might;
offered to the people in a new draft, and if that see fit. But a majority of the Committee were,
dourse was not to be adopted they were of little clearly of opinion that some legal provision for the
consequence. He next proceeded to consider the snpport of public worship was necessary. But if
2d, 3d and 4th resolutions, which propose amend- there was any subject in relation to which there
ments in the 2d and 3d articles of the declaration should be an injunction on all to contribute their
of rights, relating to the maintenance of public aid, this merited the highest place, in relation to
worship.' The first consideration which presented all other institutions-courts of justice-schools
itself was, that these articles do not contain a highways, &c.-it was admitted that every individ-
grant, but a restraint of power. Those, therefore, ual should be compelled to contribute towards their
who propose to expunge them, do not consider the
support. If religlous institutions should be left to
effect of such a measure. They restrain the power the voluntary support of individuals, it should be
of the legislature in relation to religious subjects. so with all others, The only subject of ma-
There is another article that empowers the legisla-1 terial difference of opinion in the committee, was
ture to make, ordain and establish all manner of how public worship might be supported, by enjoining.
wholesome and reasonable laws, asthey shall judge the duty on towns and parishes; and on the other
to be for the good and welfare of the commor- hand the rights of conscience, which the commit-
wealth. This power; without any restraint in rela- tee were unanimously of opinion, ought not to be
tion to matters of religion, would enable them to invaded, should be protected. A fourth resolution
give a code of laws for religious worship, without was designed to avoid this difficulty. It was the
regard to the rights and opinions of individuals result of a compromise of opinions. The majority
eemed to a majority of the committee, that of in favor of the report was not large. It was thought
all subjects which could be imagined, that of public | that there was a defect in this respect, in the pro-
worship was one which most required to be pro- visions of the Constition; an individual, who was
vided for in the constitution. There was provision | satisfied with the religious instructions provided by
for securing the right of trial by jury--the freedom the town or' parish was nevertheless obliged to
of the press the support of literaiure-and there contribute to iheir support, unless he united lim-
was no reason for omitting to provide for the sup- self to a society of some different sect. This diffi-
port of public worship and religious instruction.- cully was partially remedied by the statute of 1811.
The reasoning of the third article was unanswera- But there was some doubt whether a person was
ble. “As the happiness of the people and the good exempted from taxation in the parish to which he
order and preservation of civil government essen- belonged, unless he joined a society of a different
tially depend upon piety, religion and morahty; sect or denomination. It was proper, that the
and as these cannot be generally diffused through provision should be clear, and not liable to misiba
the community but by the institution of a public #terpretation, and rade permanent by being incepe
A
MASSACHUSETTS.CONVENTION,
Å
16L
1
2
'If the passage
eurs.
1
porated in the constitution. It admitted of doubt the duty of a part of the people to attend public
also, what formed a religious society. The com- worship it was the duty of the whole. The legis
mittee had endeavoured to remove all anbiguity | lature ought to have power to pass laws to compel
on this point, by establishing a mode in which such the observance of the Sabbath, and a que átteng
*society inight be formed. Mr. B. said 'he had made ance on public worship. It was for the benefit of
these remarks in compliance with the request of society that they should have this power. He
the chairman of the select committee. There was hoped this part of the Constitution would not be
another resolation respecting the clause which in- struck out, but that it would be suffered to stand
vests the Legislature with authority to enjoin at- to the credit of our ancestors who.placed it there
tendance on publịc worship. This was considered and that it might go down to our children and poš-
to be a defect in the constitution and it was thought || terity.
proper to annul it.
Mr. ĐAWES of Boston, did not wish. to-be.con-
The first resolution which proposes to strike out sidered as answering the argument of the gentle-
the word subject" and " insert « citizen" or man from Reading, for he had not the pleasure of
“person” in the several places where it accurs in hearing it. But he wished to make a few remarks
the declaration of rights, was taken into considera- of his own. This part of the 3d article was not a
ition.
favorite of his. It appeared to him to be very
Mr. FAY, of Cambridge, opposed the resolu- harmless, but though it could never do any injury.
tion. He said the committee had proposed the al- he did not like to see it in the Constitution, bea
tcration on the supposition that the constitution cause it could never do any good, Similar laws
was to be drafted anew. It had been determined had done no good in England. He quoted seve-
that this should not be done. But he opposed the ral British statutes to show the origin of the pro-
resolution on another ground. The word " sub- vision, none of which, as far as he could learn.
ject” was the proper word.
6 Citizen" was a could ever be carried into effect. The reason was
word of more limited meaning. The word subject obvious. The person accused had only to plead
comprehends every person who lives under any conscience, and the civil arm could not reach him.
government; no other word was so techvically ac- Mr. HUBBARD, of Boston thought it a subject
curate, and so applicable to the places where it oc- which deserved some reflection,
in question was a dead letter as had been contend-
Mr. SAVAGE of Boston, said that the word ed, it would do no harm. It was not consistent
citizen was a very just and proper word. In the with the professions which gentlemen had nude,
various places in which it was found in the consti- to strike it out unless experience had shown that
tution, the framers of this instrument, had used the it did some injury. The language is not impera-
word citizen, when they spoke of persons, who
tive. provides only that the legislature 'shall
were to enjoy certain rights; and stlhject wben they have the power, but does not require that they
spoke of them as bound to perform duties. Tie shallexercise it. Do we subject the people to any
latter word occurs eleveu tines in the constitution, inconvenience by giving the legislature a right to
and in several of them it cannot with propriety be pass laws of the description mentioned. Gentle-
changed for citizen or person. The declaration of men say that the legislature ought to have power
j'ights contains an asscrtion of general principles. to provide for the support of public worship, It
In several instances, where the word occurs, the did not seem wise to give the right to compel the
passage is a translation from Magna Charta and its people to support public worship, and not to give
could not with propriety be translated citizen. the right to coinpel attendance.
It was a power
Nothing would be gained by a change, of the which might with the same, propriety be granted.
phraseology. There
prelence that
If it was not necessary that the legislature should
it was unintelligible.
Tlie assertion of a possess the power in the present state of society,
principle, in old language, was as good as in it was impossible to say that 30 years hence the
new. It was an object to preserve the language, 1 prevalence of immorality and vice might not be
and keep it from changing. He quoted, passages
such as to make it extremely desirable. The 20-
where the word could not with propriety be chang- thority being now expressly granted, if that was
ed, for example : demeaning themselves peacea- struck out of the constitution, the inference would
bly and as good subjects," citizeos was of ioo nar- be that the legislature did not possess the power.
row meaning. It would not include foreigners,jet He held if we gave the legislature power to make
foreigners demeaning themselves peaceably should laws it was our bounden duty to give power to
be entitled to the protection of the law; change it carry them into effect. He was therefore against.
to persons and it would make nonsense. He the resolution.
queted other passages, and contended, that in all Mr. NELSON of Malden (vas in the habit of
of them the word subject was properly used and considering religion as a matter between God and
that citizenwas also always used in theproperplaces. ll the individual. When any one inakes up his mind
Mr. AUSTIN, of Charlestown hoped the reso- that it is his duty to worship his @leator he decides
lution would be adopted.
We were citizens of also on the manner in which it is proper to wor-
the U. States and not subjects. Subject, was a ship him. He cannot delegate the right of doing
child of monarchy.
This appeareil from its ely- this to a Legislature. He had no thought when
mology.
Under the Ronan commonwealth no he was choosiog a Representative, that he was
person entitled to the rights of citizenship was choosing a man to legislate about matters of reli-
eonsidered a subject.
gion. He had already settled about that. He
Mr. FREEMÅN of Sandwich said he had con- questioned the right of the people to invest the
sidered the subject with soine attention before the Legislature with power to authorize and require
report of the committee, and since. He could see towns and parishes to make provision for the sup-
no reason for changing the language.
port of teachers of religion and morality. Mr,
The question was taken on the resolution and Nelson was here called to order.
decided in the negative, 127 to 208.
The Chairman said that if he was alluding te
The second resolution was then taken up, which the other resolution merely for the purpose of ar-
provides for such an amendment in te Constitu-
gument, and with the vicw of illustrating his ideas
tion that the part of it which invests the legislature on the second resolution, he was in order, but it
with the power to enjoin on individuals an attend- was not in order now to debate the third resalua
ance on public worship shall be considered as an- tion
Aulled.
Mr. Nelson sat down. .
Mr. FLINT opposed the resolation. If it vyas Mr. WILLIAMS oi Beverly, spoke in favour
was
no
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.-
162
1
t
tion.
of the resolution. He did not think the clause in dent proprietors will be exempled from taxation for
the Constitution could be enforced, and if it could, the support of religious worship in any place..
it was contrary to the spirit of oui“ religion. Was not this a great evil? He could name towns
The question was then taken on the resolution in which one third part of the land was owned by
and it was 'agreed to 296 to 29.
citizens of different towns, and was assessed forthe
Mr. SALIONSTALL moved to amend the support of public worship in the town's where it
report by striking out the 3d and 4th resolutions was situated. Deduct this portion of the taxes, and
and substituting a nesolution declaring that it is in many towns it would in a great degree derange
not expedient to make any further amendment to their system of supporting public worship. It night
the 3d article of the Declaration of rights than to be supposed that this evil would be remedied on ac-
substitute the word " Christian” for “Protestant," count of tenants being liable to be taxed. But
and also to provide that real estate shall be taxed there were a great many towns to which he refer
for the sapport of public worship in the town, pa- red, where the lands were not occupied by tenants,
rish or precinct in which it shall be sitnated. but used by the non-resident owners merely as pasa
Mr. HOAR of Coricord, said it appeared to him, tures for cattle. Another inconvenience and in-
that the amendment proposed by the gentleman | justice would arise from adopring the report, that
from Salem, must necessarily bring the whole sub- these lands would escape all taxation, as the assesa
juct of the 3d article into discussion. If it should sors in the towns where the owners lived, would
be adopted, it would shew that the committee not know of lands so situated, or would be ignoa
were in favor of the article as it now stands, in rant of their value. For this reason alone, the re-
preference to the substitution proposed by the se- port ought not to be accepted, and it was incum-
lect committee or by the gentleman from Chester, bcnt on those in favor of it, to show something e-
or from Pittsfield, and to any
ny other which may be quivalent to the derangement to the system of taxa-
offered. He wasdesirous that the present amend-
But although this inequality would be cre-
ment Inight be adopted. He was on the select || ated by the report, yet this was but the dust of the
committee, but did not vote with the majority in balance,compared with the rest ofthe conseqnences.
reporting these resolutions. If they were wrong
wrong The report pays homage to religion generally, but
therefore, he was not responsible for their defects, does not mention the Christian religion in particu-
and if right, he was entitled to no part of the cred- lar. That however, was probably intended. In
it. He considered the alteration proposed by the terns it admits the importance of religion to the
report of the committee to be in substance perni- support of civil government. In terins it requires
cious. It was going to change one of the funda- the Legislature to provide for the maintenance of
mental principles of our Government. If there public worship, because otherwise, religion can-
was in our Constitution one principle more than not be maintained, or civil government be support-
another on which the public happiness and welfare ed. So far he agreed with the report, and so far
depended, and which was entitled to greater favor, the report agrees with the constitution; and no al
be thought it was this; and it was here peculiarly literation is necessary. His objection was, that afa
proper to call on gentlemen for an application of ter asserting the great principles the committee go
the rule so often brought forward, that before on to mạke provisions which directly coạtradict
any principle in the Constitution was changed, it and contravene them. If the report shall be ac-
ought to be shown clearly and decisively that expe- li cepted, probably the Legislature would, in obedi-
rience had proved it capable of producing an ill ence to it, pass a law similar to that of 1800, rea
effcct on the community. If this was acknowledg- ll quiring towns to support public worshipiſ olsufficient
ed to be an important and an operative principle || ability. The report ton provides that any persons
and not a dead letter, and if the effect produced not less than twenty may form a society, and be
by it was not a bad one, but the contrary, it ought | free from taxation for any other society. It does not
to be retained. He was unwilling to destroy the require the aid of imagination to conjecture what
effect of this principle. We had had experience will be the effect of these provisions, for we know
of its beneficial operation, not for forty years only, by facts, that men jou another society, so that the
but for more than a century; and he would not town becomes unable to support the religious
exchange this experience for any theory however Leacher, and the society they join is unable. If
wise in appearance. Theory might deceive, but the town is indicted for not supporting religious
experience could not. And if any experience was worship, they shew their inability and are acquit-
useful, that of the particular cominunity for which ted. What is the provision you make ? You tell
the constitution was intended, was to be preſerred. the towns that it is their duty to support public
Although other counties muy bare been able to do worship, and then you in effect say that no person.
without this principle, it by no means followed that need pay for that purpose unless he pleases; and
it would do no good here. He knew that a dis- the practical operation has been accordingly. But
tinguished individual in Great Britain had pro- suppose the legislature say that every town shall
' fessed liis abiltiy to make constitutions and support public worship ; leaving out the clause aa
laws for all latitudes, and all habits and bout sufficient ability, yet leaving every one at liber-,
manners that could be named; he should how- ty to go where he pleases. What is the situation
ever give more credit to our own experience. of a parish where they keep withdrawing, and the
If gentlemen who wish a change should show the more there are who go, the more are induced to
operation of the third article to be prejudicial to go. If the minister asks for his salary he is requir-
this country, he should cheerfully vote with them ;
ing the pound of flesh; if he does not, he leaves
otherwise he should think it ought to be retained. bis parish and there is no minister. Mr.'
He said it had been judicially determined that by H. spoke of the detriment which would hap-
the law of 1811, real estate belonging to non-resi- pen to that class of society who depend for their
dent proprietors of a different sector denomination, religious instruction on public worship. He
cannot be taxed for the support of public worship in spoke only as a citizen and not as a divine. He
the town where it is situated. This report propo- considered religious instruction, in a political point
ses to extend to all Christians, the rights which
were peculiar to persons of a quierent denomina-
of view, to be as necessary as literary instruction,
It might be said that religion would be supported
tion from congregationalists. It gives power to a voluntarily. He wished for better evidence of.the
congregationalist, for any reason, to change his re- fact than he had had; and if true now it might not
ligious instructor, and prevents his being taxed in be hereafter. Much had been said about unaa
any place except where he attends public worship. lllienable rights; he asked if this meant that society
the consequence will be, that all lands of non-resi- could not do what was most for its good ? If a
f
1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
163
OWD
was
}
man could not give up any rights for his greatest communities, beside's supporting
supporting their
benefit? No interference with the riglits of con- religious teachers, contributed large sums to
science was intended or felt from the third article. the extension of the knowledge of christianity to
To say that the Legislature shall not regulate other countries. It was not necessary for securing
any thing relating to religion,
say the maintenance of the ministry, and it had a ten-
that they shall not encourage any virtues or dency to produce strife and contention. Persons
punish any vices or crimes. If we could trust were taxed in societies, who were accustomed to
to any thing in history, it was to this, that our pros- attend religious worship in other societies, and this
perity, and what most distinguishes Massachusetts, produced jealousy, strife, ill feelings towards each
is owing to our provision for the support of religion Other. The ministers in many instances do not wish
and inorality. He considered these a great sup- it. They had rather labour with their own hands
port of civil society. He believed the only alter- for their support, than that the stock and property
native was, to-support it by religion and morality, of their flock should be taken and sold for their
or by a standing army. The proposition of the maintenance. He wished to strike from the Con-
gentleman froni Salein, was only to leave the Con- stitution a provision that was not necessary for the
stitution where it was before. It was not to repeal | support of religion, and which tended to produce
the law of 1811, which he considered a bad ſaw, strife and jealousy. It would reduce all the reli-
but only to leave the Legislature the power, if pe- gious communities to a level, and would introduce
cessary, instead ,of tying up their hands for all fu-
their hands for all fu- a spirit of harmony and emulation for the support
ture time. He compared the provision for relig- of religion, and he believed in a short time the a-
ious worship to that for town schools : those who mount of voluntary contribution for religious pur-
llave no children pay as great a tax as if they had; poses, would be greater than can now be raised
and if any person, haviny chuldren, is not satisfied by the hand of power. If we would attend to the
with the schoolmaster appointed by the town, he subject in its operation on religion, we should find
takes away his children, but never thinks of with- it would have a good effect, to remove all restric-
holding his money from the support of the town tions, which operate to give exclusive privileges
schools; and yet the principle is the same; it is in to a particular denomination. He wished to have
fact a stronger case ; for a man may withdraw to the Constitution so amended that there shouid be
any religious society, and pay his-inóney where he no inconsistency in it, and that each religious.
pleases, only he must pay sopiewhere. The amend- community should be entitled to equal privileges.
ment of the gentleman from Salem; Mr. H. said, The committee rose--223 to 82-reported pro-
would supersede all others. He should prefer the gress and had leave to sit again.
proposition of the gentleman from Pittsfield 10 the The house then voted to adjourn203 to 129.
report of the Conimittee. It would do no man
honor to vote for the report. He accused no one !
of the Committee of improper views. He knew
THURSDAY, DEC. 21.
it was not the case; but if they had lived in the
The house met at 9 o'clock,and attended prayers
vicinity to see the operation of the law of 1811, they offered by the Rev. Mr. Jenks. After which the
would all agree in retaining the provision in the
journal of yesterday was l'ead.
Constitution No evil could be pointed out from Mr. BEACH of Gloucester, offered a Resolu-
suffering it to remain, to be compared with those
tion for altering the constitution so as to provide
which would arise from abolishing it.
that all judicial officers, duly appointed, commise
Mr. MUDGE was opposed to the adoption of sioned and sworn, shall hold their offices for the term
the amendment of the gentleman from Salem, be- of
years from the
day of
and
'cause it would tend to introduce great confusion and
upon the expiration of any Commission, the same
"OVI! It proposed to give power to societies'to lax
nay, if necessary, be renewed, or another per-
real estate. Persons of all denominations have
son appointed, as shall most conduce to the well
made that provision for the support of public wor-
being of the Commonwealih, provided that no per-
ship which they think necessary. They do not son shall be appointed or continue in office after
wish to incur the trouble and expense of assessing he shall have arrived to the age of years,
taxes, that they may draw them out for the sup- Referred to the Committee of the whole on the
'.port of religious worship which they have already Judiciary Power and ordered to be printed.
provided for in other modes.
The arguments
On motion of Mr. Dana, the house resolved
which the gentleman who had last spoke had used itself into a cominittee of the whole on the unfi-
were precisely those which he would have used,
nished business of yesterday : Mr. Varnum in the
to show that the provisions of the Constitution chair.
1 .ought not to be retained. He could show in every The question was upon the amendinent offered
part of the Commonwealth instances in which
by Mr. Saltonstall.
great injustice and opression had been suffered by Mr. PARKER, of Boston, moved to pass ovec
individuals; he could point to an individual on the this amendinent for the present as it creaiedembar-
Refloor who had had his property taken from him to
amount of 300 dollars for the
rassment in the mode of treating the subject. Some
worship in a form which he did not approve. But
other propositions which had been made were pre-
vious in their nature.
who shall be entitled to the right of taxing the Mr. CHILDS of Pittsfield, opposed the motion,
whole property of the Commonwealth ? In the
Mr. WILDE, of Newburyport, hoped that the
town to which he belonged there were five distinct
religious societies. Which of them should have
motion to pass over the resolution would prevail.
He was surprised that in the debate yesterday die
the right to impose this tax? Soine of the denom-
inations of christians were conscientiously opposed
general argument, whether the lcgislature should
have power to conipel people to contribute to the
to the right of imposing any tax for the support of
religion. The right therefore of taxing would op-
support of religious instruction and public worship
was gone into in support of the motion of the gen-
erate unequally. The Episcopalians, the Baptists, tleman from Salem to amend the report of the select
thre Friends, had never exercised the right. None
committee. That report proposes not only to au-
he believed but the Congregational denomination thorize the legislature to make provision for the
had exercised the right. "It was therefore granting
to them an exclusive right. It had been contend-
support of public tcachers of piety, religion and mo-
ed that it was necessary for the support of religion.
rality, but enjoins it on them as a duty. The only
He did not agree that it was necessary.
ground on which the argument had been taken up,
tended that it was not. He found that all religious
was, that the resolution offered by the select con-
He found that all religious millée makes such a modification of the powers
1
He con-
>
164
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
er.
granted, as to destroy their effect. He did pot there was so much refinement-So much instrue*
think that the powers proposed to be granted to the tion and so great a regard for religiou as were to
legişlature would be destroyed hy, the provisions be found in this commonwealth. He was willing
contained in the resolution, though this effect would to go as far as any gentleman in this eulogy of the
undoubtedly be in some measure impaired. He character of the people in all parts of the state.
thought that the committee ought to come first to But he would not adorit that this character was to
the general question, whether any such power be attributed to the inefficient and inoperative re-
should be granted to the legislature. For this pur- cognition of a principle in the constitution. It was;
pose it would be necessary to take up first, either to be attributed to the general support of common
the propósition of the genileinan from Chester, or schools—they were the primum mobile of improve."
that of the gentleman froin Pittsfield. They ap- ment in the commonwealth. He appealed to the
peared to him to be propositions previous in their example of the town of Boston whcre this princi-
nature to those involved in the resolutions of the ple of the constitution had no effect and yettherewås,
select committee, and the amendment proposed by nowhere to be found a higherdegree of improvements,
the gentleman from Salem.
The example of Rhode Island had been appealed'
The motion was agreed to--159 to 110.
to as a case to show the necessity of some constitu-
Mr. PHELPS, of Chester, said, that when he lional provision for the support of religion. But
drew up the resolation which he offered yesterday, Mr. C. said that the low state of morals and in--
he did not know that any other gentleman was pre- provement in that stato could not be attributed to
paring one for the same object. The resolution the 'waut of a compulsory provision for the support
offered by the gentleman froin Pittsfield contained of religion, but to their want of common schools,
the principles which he wished to have adopted, In Providence, where schools were encouraged, as
and as he did not wish to consume the time of the much attention was paid to the support of religion
konventiont, he would withdraw his resolution. as in Boston. This amounted to a demonstratiork
The CHAIRMAN said it could not be with- that the effect was to be attributed to the general,
drawn. It was then voted to pass it over, and on diffusion of education by common schools, and not
motion of Mr. CBILDS, the resolution offered by to any provision for the support of religion. The
him yesterday, was taken into consideration, example of New York he said, had been appealed
Mr. CHILÓS said that the reason why he vas to, but there was there the same want of schools as
the mover of this resolution was that the Rev. gen- in Rhode Island. It was proposed to substitute
tleman from Boston who was a nuember of the the word Christian for Protestant. He called on
eommittee, and had proposed making a motion of gentleman to define Christian. Clergynen differ-
similar import,was not in his seat at the time when ed on the subject. What would be called Chris-
the suhject came up in convention. He hoped the tianity by one, would be called infidelity by anoth-
object he had in view would not be prejudiced, by Who knows what will be the state of things
the proposition coming from hini, instead of com- some years hence The time was rapidly approach-
ing from a more respectable and proper source as ing when men professing to be Christians will be
had been intended. Mr. C. stated as a general so opposed thai iſ this part of the constitution is re-
principle that the right of every individual to wor- tained, the commonwealth will be in a state of
ship God in a manner' agreeable to the dictates of greater dissention from theological differences
his own conscience, was one which no goverument than they have ever been frodi political controversieso,
could interfere with Whenever government had The resolution proposerl by the select committee,
undertaken to exercise an authority in this respect, declares the principle thus the legislature shall
it was an usurpation, and when this usurpation had hiave power to compel the people to support relig-
been submitted to, ihe worship rendered was not ious teachers; but if gentlemen would examine it
sincere. In our own government, unless it could in its details, they would find that it would accord
be demonstrated that it was necessary to the sup- in practice with the principle in the resolution pro-
port of government, and clearly for the interest of | posed by him as a substitule. In this construction
the community, it could not be fairly exercised. his opinion was supported by the argument of the
He would call thic attention of the committee to gentleman from Concord yesterday. That gentle-
the argument of the gentleman from Boston. He man was consistent in his views, and for adopting a
would not admit that he or any other gentleman
consistent course. Mr. C. said he would rather a-
who would support the report of the select com- dopt the consistent principle of that gentleman, tham
mittee felt a greater interest in the support of re- the contradictory one of the committee. The pro-
ligious institutions than gentlemen who would ad- position supported by hiin was explicit, and it would
vocate the resolution which he had proposed.ml be known what was to be depended on. The
The gentleman had said that the conimittee were principle maintained by the committee with the
unanimously of opinion that the support of institu- qualifications with which we had accompauied it,
tions for religious instruction and worship were es- would keep the state in constant quarrels and col?
sential to the happiness of the people and good or- lisions. He repeated, that rather than take the rę.
der of society, and therefore ought to be supported || port of the committee, he would take the proposi-
by legislative provision. He, Mr. C. would draw tion advocated by the gentleman from Concord.--
a different conclusion from the same premises.- Our forefathers had bech repeatedly brought for-
He argued that because religious instruction and ward as affording an illustrious example. He pre-
worship were essential to the happiness of the suned, however, that their example was not to be
people and good order and preservation of govern- 1 adopted in every thing, and contended that this was
ment,they ought to be left to thefree support of evcet a domination of ihe same kind, and only differing in
Tyindividual, according to the dictates of conscience. I degree from that which every body at the present
He contended that this was the only mode in which day disapproved. He would state how far in his o-
religious worship could be properly supported, and pinion, government has a right to interfere in mat-
die mode in which in practice under the constitu- ters of religion. So far as the laws can take coga
tion it had been actually supported. The princi- ||nizance of offences committed against good morals.
pics of the third article in the declaration of rights government has a right to interfere; but the prin-
had been abandoned in practice, and the resolution | ciple which leads us tp.worship God, is beyond the.
before the committee did not deviate from what
control of goverament. The gentleman from Cou-
had been the practice for many years in the com- cord had said, that iſ we abandoned the means of
monwealth-what had been recognized by the Leg supporting religious, instruction, we should be o-
islature--and from the general sentiment of the bliged to rcsort to a standing army to enforce obe-
people. He believeel there was no state wbere dience to the laws. He, Mr. C. would reverse the
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
165
1
proposition. Establish the principle that govern- a despotism. Christianity, as it was then received,
hent has a right to compel' the support of public and Christianity as it was in the days of its author,
worship, and a standing army, will be necessary to were distinct religions. No fair argument there
carry it into effect. The gentleman was mistaken. fore can be deduced from the use that was thug
The proper support of religion was the voluntary made of Christianity, falsely so called, against a-
contribution of individuals. Mr. C. also said that vailing : ourselves of its power in circumstances,
the 3d article was inconsistent with the 2d article in which, if it act at all, it can act only in favor.cf
of the Bill of Rights,
the people. The gentleman says, this article isin-
Mr. TUCKERMAN said, that he had not intend- operative, and he says.too, that in its principles it
ed to have spoken to this subject. He thought is a usurpation of unalienable rights. He must re-
however that there was a fallacy in the argument concile these views of it. But he asks, why have
of the gentleman from Pittsfield, which it would not the legislature availed itself of the compulsory
not be difficult to expose, and which ought to be power which is given in the third article ? The rea
corrected. He agreed with that gentleman, that son is, that the indirect influence of this article,
religion had too often been abused, to acconiplish has secured them from the necessity of using this
the purposes of ciyil government ; but said that it power. But annul this article, and it will not re-
was very unjust, on the ground of this abuse, to quire the eye of a prophet to discern the time,
reason against the use, which legislators might make when our state will obtain a new character; when
of religion. Government,if it be free,must be lound- some of its niost important institutions will be use
ed in religion ; or in other words, in the virtues settled; and when we shall not be able to rem-
that are derived from religion. That if there was edy the evil we have occasioned. The gentleman
a vantage ground of which, of all others,as a politi- says that our schools are nurseries of morality. They
cian he would avail himself on this subject, it would are. But would our institutions for the instruction of
be this that for our very knowledge of the principles youth be what they aré, if they were independent
of pure republicanism, we are indebted peculiarly of our institutions for religious instruction ? We
to chrisianity. It was not necessary to run a parallel are referred to Rhode Island and New York,where
between our own and othergovernments,in order to no provision for the support of religion is made,
shew the distinct and individual character of our like the 3d Article of our Bill of Rights. And we
own civil institutions. Let gentleman consider but may ask iſ, in those states, there are institutions
for a moment, how analogous are the principles like ours for the universal diffusion of knowledge
which distinguish our civil institutions, to the spirit anong children? The author of the Age of Reasori
and principles of the christian religion Other re- was asked why schools were established in one state
ligions had taught the rights of the rich and power- in every town and settlement,and the education of
ful, and the daties of those who were without pow- youth in other states was se much neglected ? He
er, and ivere poor. But it was christianity that answered, that where you find the institutions of
first taught explicitly, and fully, and with authori- religion maintained, there also you will find
ly, the rights of the poor, the dependent, and the schools; and where there are no churches, there
governed, and the duties of the rich, of rulers, and also the instruction of the young is neglected. And
of all who had influence in society. Our religion is it not so? The gentleman says, if religion is to
is a perfect system of reciprocal rights and be established, let it be defined. He challenges
daties, extending to every relation and cir- any gentleman to say, amidst all the coufusion of
cumstance of life. He asked, why was Chris- sects, what is christianity ? We reply, it is a
tianity persecuted, when it was first given to great and characteristic excellence of this article,
the world ? It was for the very reason, that it that it does not define religion. It does not take
was opposed, in its great and characteristic pecu- cognizance of opinion, nor leave opinion to the
liarities, not only to the general sentiments and cognizance of a Legislature. It gives po exclusive
usages of the age, but to all that characterized the claims to any denomination of christians. It pro-
governments of that time. If our religion, in its vides only that christian instruction shall be main-
purity, had pervaded the mass of the people to tained. The prevailing evil of other establish-
whom it was first offered ; if it had been generally ments lias been, that they have defined religion
received where the Roman government had ex- and enforced the sentiments.of a sector party. The
tended its authority, it would have produced, a framers of our Constitution have avoided this evil
state of society to which we have no parallel in And in answer to the question what is christianity,
any age or nation of the world. A society pos- Mr. T. said, that it consists essentially in the great
sessed of all the essential principles of civil liber- and essential principles in which its believers agree;
ty, most worthy of all the proper freedom of man, in a conviction of the divine authority of its author,
aud capabie at will of asserting its rights, and yet and of the obligation of the duties of his religion.-
submitting without resistance to a niost oppressive
Fenelon was a true christian ; and so was Wm.
tyranny. Had it been received by the governments Penn; and so was Watts; and at least equally so
of that age it would have brought them at least to was Lardner. This definition of christianity may
a very striking resemblance of our
not be satisfactory to all. It comprises however
This consequence would have been necesary. the christianity recognised in this article ; and, for
The Romans incorporated with their own,the gods which the advocates of the article contend. Re-
of
conquered nations. It was a part of their policy. ligion, comprehending the personal and social vir-
But they knew too well the policy of a despotism to tues of the Gospel, and as recognised by the con-
receive under its patronage a religion which taught stitution, is an angular stone in the fabric of our gov-
the rights of every individual as explicitly as his du- ernment. Remove it, and you will make every part
ties. These were among the reasons why Christian- of the edifice insecure. He said that the article had
ity at its introduction to our world was rejected received a construction which had occasioned some
and persecuted. But pass on to the age of evil. He should be glad to adopt any modifica
Constantine. It is said that here we are to look tion of it, by which this evil might be prevented.-
for the reciprocal influence of Christianity on gov- He thought that a Trinitarian ought not to be ou
ernbeut, and of government on Christianity. But bliged to pay his tax for the support of Unitarian,
is this true? What was Christianity in the age worship; nor that a Unitarian should be compel-
Constantine ? Every one knows that the Christian- led to support Trinitarian worship. But he thought
ily embraced by Constantine, was a most perver- that, as no state ever did or can flourish without
ed and corrupted form of our religion. He made religion, any more than without a judiciary, it was
at the religion of the state, because, as he received | quite as reasonable that every individual should be
it, he could make it subservicnt to the
servient to the purposes of obliged
obliged to support religion in some form, as that he ,
own.
22
166
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION. .
1
same
should contribute to the support of the establish- y kingdom. \It had been objected that the christian
ed courts of law,
religion would go down, if not supported by
Mr. ABBOT, of Westford, opposed the resolu- the civil arm. It had stood on its own broad basis
tion of the gentleman from Pittsfield. He said, in for two thousand years, and it had been as pros:
answer to the gentleman from Lyon, (Mr. Mudge) perous the last twenty years as ever it had been.
that it should be shown that the cases of particular It was the safest and most honorable way to leave
inconvenience putweighed the general good arising it to voluntary support. He referred to great exs
from the third article, before it should be annulled. ertions which had been made and are now making
He should have thought it a self-evident proposi, for its support and extension by the British Foreign
tion, if a contrary opinion had not been intimated Bible Society and other institutions of the kind,
in the coure of the debate, that religion and moral- which would despise calling in aid from the civil
ity were essential to the good order and happiness arnı. He said the argument from the effect to the
of a people; he would, however, refer gentlemen cause was not just in this case, as applied by gen.
to the history of other countries where they were tlemen in favor of the provision, for the operation
not supported, for the truth of the assertion. He had not been beneficial as they had asserted. He
apprehended that if we should not uphold them, should hold up his hand with peculiar energy to al-
we should soon witness a disregard for the ter this article, not expunge it, for then he feared
Sabbath, and that the people would cease to the legislature would go to making laws about re-
exhibit the
orderly conduct which
ligion. He would insert a provision to restrain
now prevails. He argued that in giving the legis- them from making any laws on the subject, and one
laturę power to interfere in the support of religion
other provision to prevent any subordination of one
we were not divesting ourselves of unalienable denomination to another.
rights. The bill of rights declares, that the rights Mr. STOWELL, of Peru, thought the advocates
of defending our lives and liberties and of posess- for the abolition of the 3d article, mistook their m-
ing and protecting property, are unalienable ; and terest. For the last twenty years, the Legislaturė
yet no man ever thought that the laws regulating had been constantly petitioned to incorporate re-
the modes of defending our lives and of acquiringligious societies, and why? because societies could
and retaining property were repugnant to this dec- not enjoy their rights without being incorporated
laration. The right of taxing for the support of These petitions are granted of course. They have
public worship did not interfere with any of these their rights secured-religion flourishes. Také a.
unalienable rights, and the people had as good a way the right of the Legislature to support reli-
right to invest the legislature with this power in gion, and they are left without any provisions for
respect to public worship as in respect to public | their security. He was opposed as well to the le-
schools. There were some rights, such as that of port of the Select Conimittre, as to the resolution
private opinion, when it does not result in acts los- of the gentleman from Pittsfield.
uile to the well being of the community, where the Mr. BLAKE, of Boston, said he had already
legislature ought not to interfere, and this 3d article
been indulged with an opportunity of expressing
invested it with no power in such cases.
The the views of the select committee, and it might be
question then was, is it expedient to give the legis- expected that he should also express his own views
lature the authority contained in this article. It on this subject. When the convention first assema
had been said there was no provision of this kind bled, the sentiment of Jespect and reneration for
in the constitution of any other state in the union. the constitution was reiterated from all parts of
Comparisons were invidious, but he did not think the house; this sentiment had been sadly departed
that Massachusetts was behind her sister states in from. The constitution had become too familiar by
good order and virtue, and it was not certain too much handling, and gentlemen now talked very
that the good habits of other states will continue freely of its rotten parts and of its relics of bigotry:
so long as if they had such a provision as He objected to making many alterations, where
we have. If strike it out of our five hundred minds were to be consulted. Fifteei
Constitution we may have reason in future to re- men out of the convention might mect together
gret it. The gentleman from Pittsfield says there perhaps and agree upon some things which might by
is an inconsistency between the 2d and the 3d arti- useful., He held the 3d article to be the most na.
cle of the Bill of rights. It was surprising that
terial part of the constitution; it was the key stond
we at this late day should be the first to make the of the arch. He would endeavor to answer some
discovery. Thc 2d article says that no man shall of the objections advanced against it. One objec
be amenable for his private sentiments in religion
tion was that religion will take care of itself. It
or for worshiping God according to the dictates of will do so; but by secondary causes. Is it a bless
his conscience in a peaceable manner, and the 3d || ing? One of the choicest blessings we enjoy ? Likt
says that erery man shall contribute to the support other benefits conferred by Proviaence on man, it
!
of public worship in order that the state may de- would require an effort on his part. It is true that
rive benefit froni it. He professed himself unable originally christianity did support itself. Ils autbor
see the contradiction. If the legislature
was living and had the power of working miracles
had not the power of compelling a man to con- to establish it. God has made provision for the
tribute, the provision
would be nugatory. inferior parts of the creation, but from niah
He concluded by hoping that the provision in the he requires exertion. He has given mai
3d article would remain.
inind ; but without study and cultivation it is
Mr. NELSON of Malden, said that it was ge- mere carta erasa. It is said that religion is an affalk
nerally agreed that religion was a valuable thing, between man and his maker, and legislative intere
and that it was useful to support public worship; ference is improper. The argument would prevent
but the question was,what mode was most expe- our enacting laws against blasphemy, breach one
dient for that purpose. He thought that for ihe the Sabbath, murder, theſt, and other things for
Legislature to put any restraint on religion was bidden in the ten couimandnients. It has been oba
.
going beyond their ljberties. That religion was jected that individyal cvi) has been produced by
not a matter for legislation. The Lord Jesus the operation of this article. This is incident
Christ declared that his kingdom was not of this all general laws, but it is no answer to the general
world. This kingdom had been in the world ever good which results from them. It has been saia
since his time and did not nced the aid of civil
That this is the only state u hich has a provision is
authority. Jesus Christ was the king of this hiug- its constitution of this kind. This was true,but not uz
don,and he asked whether the Legislature of this objection to it. He lod travelled a great distance
Commonwealth had a right to make laws for this along some parts of our Ailantic coast and except
Ive
to
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.,
2
367
}
in our cities had frequently found nothing to re- prisonment of John Bunyan-the ejection of 200
mind him that he was in a christian country. dissenting ministers the persecution of Thomas
Massachusetts in this respect stood on an eminence. Delong, and other examples to show the abuses of
Another argument was alleged that it was unjust || religion when connected with the civil power. He
to tax one person for another's benefit. The same honoured the memory of our ancestors. But, said
objection would apply to taxes for the support of he, shall we perch ourselves upon their tombstone's
schools, courts of justice, in short of all public and sing a requiem to their ashes, or shall we ena
institutions. The gentleman from Lyna consider- deavour to derive profit from their experience and
ed this article as interfering with the rights of example, and continue the course of improvement
conscience. The question was not a question of which they began. We should imitate their virs
conscience, but of pounds shillings and pence. tues and take warning from their vices. If those
There was no injunction in this article to attend at exalted spirits could look down from heaven, they
any particular place of public worship : every would, if it were possible, shed tears of regret for
mah might attend where he pleased.
the errors they committed in persecuting those who
Mr. BÅLDWIN, of Boston, rose for the purpose differed from them in-matters of religion. He said
of supporting the resolution offered by the gentle- that no denomination had been more devoted sup-
man from Pittsfield. He objected to the statement porters of the government of this commonwealth,
made in a syllogistic form in the third article of nor more persevering friends. of liberty than that
the declaration of rights. He agreed in the premi- to which lie belonged. He adverted to the histo-
ses but denied the conclusion. It was stated that ry of the present Constitution. He had.no doubt
as the happiness of a people and the preservation' of the pious intentions of the fçamers of it in inser-
of government depend on piety, religion, and mo- ting the third-article. It was a subject of great
rality, and as these cannot be diffused without the difficulty there were long contentions—and it
institution of public worship, therefore the people was hoped that it would answer the purpose of rec-
have a right to invest their Legislature with power onciling all parties. But it had been found that
to compelthe support of public worship. This con- some improvement could be made in it. The in-
clusion he insisted did not follow, but the object tentions of the framers had not always been carri-
could be obtained in a more skilful and proper ed into effect-treasurers have sometimes refused
manner than by legislative interference. He ap- to give up money to which other denoninations
pealed to the Mosaic dispensation to prove that no
were entitled: He had known in one town in the
penalties were inflicted by the civil magistrate to county of Middlesex, fourteen lawsuits. to compel
enforce the performance of religious duties. He them to pay over the money.., The necessity of
quoted a number of passages from Scripture which ||'such proceedings occasioned much expense, and
he maintained supported this position. He quoted what was worse,created ill blood. - He contended
also from the New Testament to show that religion that the proposition now under consideration would
was not to be propagated and supported by the give suſhicient security to all denominations.
aid of the civil magistrate. In our Lord's instruc-. There was one argument which had not been
ions to his disciples, be said, if they do not re- touched
upon. The dissenting denomina-
ceive you what then.? Deliver them ove} to the tions had never resorted to the aid of the
civil magistrate? No, but shake off the dust of law for the support of religion. They depended
your feet against them. The kingdom of our Sa- If solely upon the power of truth. Yet they had.
viour was not of this world. Religion was not always been increasing, in opposition to the
supported in the apostolic age by force of any kind, congregational denomination.
The argument
might be answered that it was supported by mir- therefore, that if the laws for the support of.
acle. He did not understand it so all the powers public worsbip are repealed, the members of the
of the Pagans were opposed to Chistianity. St. Congregational societies will all fall off, was not
Paul preached the gospel “ from Jerusalem round sound–But it is these laws that drive them off.--
about unto Illyricum," a distance of a thousand Oppress any people and you may be sure that they ,
mules, and travelled probably in a zigzag line. It will effcctually resist it, and will find their level in
did not appear that his preaching was supported in society. He did not wish there should be any op-
all cases by miracles, but by the power of truth.- pression, any subordination of one denomination
He did not agree with the gentleman from Chel- to another. He would, for his party, never consent
sea that the cause of Christianity was promoted by to receive any thing towards his support that was
its connection with the governmentunder the Em- extorted by the aid of laws. He coveted no man's
peror Constantine.
gold or silver. Such support was not necessary.
Mr. TUCKERMAN rose to explain. He did Hé referred to the Clergy of Boston, they were
aut say that Christianity was promoted by the liberally supported and entirely by voluntary contri-
countenance it received from Constantine, but that bution. He recommended the trial of the same -
he received it, when it was in a form so corrupt systemain the country, and, he boped that the reso-
that he could convert it to his own purposes.
In lution would be adopted.
pure state in which we enjoy it, it does not ad- Mr. FREEMAN, of Boston, rose, because it:
mit of beiog perverted to any sueh purposes.
was desirable to have persons of all denominations.
- Mr. BALDWIN proceededHe said that Cons-
express their opinions. He belonged to a minori-
tantine had done Christianity greater injury than ty, as well as his colleague, (Mr. Baldwin,) but he
goga, by adopting it as the religion of the state. could say for himself and his friends of his: relig-
It did not need the aid of government to assist its jous sentiments, that they had never found any
propagation. Its connection with the government convenience from the operation of the third arti-
tonded to corrupt it; and he attributed the low cle. From the year 1780, they had always enjoy.
state of Christianity during the dark ages to its ed and expressed their sentiments freely. He had
amalgamation with the civil power. He described heard of some abuses under this article, but he
the atrocities committed in France under the sanc- thought they were such as might be remedied by le-
tion of Christianity--the massacre of 60,000 Prot- gislation. If the mode of drawing taxes from the
estants in 1562-the two civil wars that followed ; treasurers. was inconvenient, it might be changed.
the massacre at Paris, when 70,000 persons were One argument which had been urged, against the
slaughtered, and human blood flowed down the article, was that religion is a work of God, and that
channels of the streets; and attributed these cruel- it is presumption in man to intermeddle. The gena
ties to the unnatural combination of religion with tleman from Boston (Mr. Blake) had given a suffin.
power. He referred to the persecutions cient answer to this,in saying that God operates by
is England-the burning at Smithfield-the ini- second causes. The Christian religion was intr'e
the
1
the civil
168
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
the gov.
duced by miracles, and then it was left, like other the whole on the unfinished business of this fore-
things to extend itself by ordinary means. Does noon, Mr. Varnum in the chair.
pot God give us every thing ? Our daily bread ? Mi. DUTTON said, after some introductory re-
but if we do not work we have no bread to eat.-- marks, that the effect of the amendment now un.
How is the word of God spread ? Is the bible der consideration was to take from corporations
dropped from Heaven ? ready translated for the the power of raising money by taxes for the sup.
different nations who are to use it ? No, bible so- port of religious instruction. He was opposed to
cieties and other institutions are formed in various the amendment, and in favor of the provision of
parts of the Christian world Is human interfer- the Constitution. In considering the question he
ence proper here,, and does it become vicious as was willing to pursue the course indicated by gen-
soon as it assumes a legislative form ? Another ob- tlemen on the other side. The right to establish a
jection is that religious establishments have been religion, by law, had been denied. In examining
productive of miscbief. He agreed that making this, we were led to the origin of government. All
this provision was establishing religion, and that re- the constitutions of this country were declared to
ligious establishments had been mischievous, but it be compacts; and in these, certain rights were re-
was because something else was mixed with relig- served, called natural or unalienable. These were
jon. This article does not establish Calvinism, so many limitations upon the power of the majori-
or Arminianism, or any particular creed. It es- ty--they were never to be encroached upon,--they
tablishes nothing but Christianity. The word were never surrendered. It was for the common
Protestant was used, no doubt, with the best bencfat of all, that these rights should be held sa-
intention, because at the time the consitution | cred, of the majority who formed and administer-
was framed,
there were none but Protestants among ed the government as well as of the minority.
us. Since that time a respectable body of Chris- Within these limits, what had
tians has grown up, and it is proper to change that ernment, when formed a right to do? Generally, it
word. That religion is established by this article, || had a right to do whatever would promote the
which makes the Scriptures the rule of our faith, || public welfare, the highest interest of the com-
with the right of interpreting them according to munity. The question then might arise, whether -
our own understanding: In other countries, this it would not be expedient, or for the public good,
has not been the established religion. Constan- to make provision for a system of moral instruc-
tine established the religion of the Council of Nice. tion, by compelling men to contribute to the sup-
Constantius, that of Arius. The Catholic is that I port of teachers of piety, religion and morality.--
of the Council of Treat. The religion of England The state had doubtless the right to do this if re-
‘is that of the thirty-nine articles of Scotland, il ligion could be established without invading any of
that of the profession of faith. An attempt was those rights which were allowed by all to be natu-
made here to establish that of the Asembly's ral. As to the expediency or even necessity of
Shorter Catechism. Some would prefer to placing religion under the patronage of govern-
have Swedenborgianism, or Hopkinsiapism, or ment in some form, history was full of instruction.
some other religion established here. But, thank Mr. D. here referred to the practice of ancient na-
God, our government is wiser than they. It leaves | lions, especially of the Greeks and Roman's for the
us a common religion in which we all agree and purpose of showing, that they found it necessary.
we are at liberty to mingle in it truth, folly to call in the religion of the country as an auxilia-
or error of our own, as our conscience and under- ry of its civil polity. And concluded by saying that
"standing shall dictate. It is said that other states no-nation had yet been found without some notion -
have no such provision. He was tired of appealsto of a future state of reward and punishment, and
other states. Heknew not what right they had to dic-
that all lawgivers have availed themselves of this
tate to us; we ought rather to give an example to
belief to give, in some form or other, sanction and
them, withone exception, Virginia. In Virginia there authority to their civil institutions. If such has
were wise men. Whereverthey appear, they appear
bcen the experience of the world, the expediency
as one body, and act with a ponderous mass. He of giving the support of law to a system of Chris-
would not yield however to that state in regard to tian instruction, is as much greater as the Chris-
religion. If several states are trying to prove that
tian religion is better than any other., Its
government does not need the aid of religion, nor
snblime morality, its motives and sanctions reconi-
religion the aid of gevernment, let them; and let
mend it, as infinitely better suited to the purposes
us take the other course. If at the end of forty of civil government, than any or all other systems;
years more, it shall be found that they make wiser and it is not only the right of the state to provide
ministers, and better men and establish more good
for its support, but its solemn duty There is no
order in society, it will then be time for us to morality without enormous defects but christian
ehange.
morality, and this is necessarily connected with the
The committee rose, reported progress and had
Christian religion. To establish this, if it can be
Icave to sit again.
done without invading the sacred rights of con-
Has this been
It was ordered that when the house adjourns it science, is the duty of the state.
shall adjourn to half past 3 P.M.
effected by the present provision of the Constitu-
Leave of absence was given to Mr. Fox, of
tion ? By the second article in the bill of rights it
Berkely, Kneeland of Andover, Pelham of Chelms- is declared that no subject shall be hurt,molested or
ford, Smith of Sunderland, aud Cummings of Or-
restrained in his person, liberty or estate, for wors i
leans.
shipping God in the manner and season most agreea-
The house then adjourned. -
ble to the dictates of his own conscience, or for his
AFTERNOON SESSION.
religious professions or sentiments, provided &c.;
and in the tbird article it is declared that every de-
The House met arcording to adjournment.
Upon calling the Convention to order the Presi-
nomination of christians, demeaning themselves.
dent mentioned that it would be impossible for him
peaccably and as good subjects of the Common-
on account of ill health to resume the chair this
wealth shall be equally under the protection of the
law; and no subordination of any one sect or de-
evening after the Coinmittec of the whole should
rise, whereupon it was ordered that the President
nomination, to another shall ever be established by
be authorized to nominate a gentleman to preside | conscience ; this wns preserving in violate the right
law. This he coutended was perfect liberty of
in case of his
absence-and he accordingly nomi-
nated Gen. Varnum, of Dracut, as President pro
of private judgment in matters of religion. With
these limitàtions then it became the duty of the
The Convention then went into Committee of aided the highest and best purposes of the statem
state to establish the christian religionbecause it
pure and
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
169
It pun-
.
can
fts tendency was to make belter subjects and bets' interest of men in competition with each other
ter magistrates, better husbands, parents and chil- There was enough of disinclination to moral duty,
dren: "It enforced the duties of imperfect obliga- / without adding the sordid aid of money Place the
tions which human laws could not reach-it incul- || duty of meu in one scale, their disinclination and
cated all the domestic and social virtues, frugality money in the other, and which will preponderate ?
and industry, prudence, kind and charitable feel- The tendency of such a competition was to weaken
ing-it made men just and honest in their dealings or sever the last ties that hind men to their highest
as individuals, and by, diffusing the sentiments or duties. The effect of a voluntary support might al-
equity and benevolence its tendency was to make so be considered in relation to the teachers them-
states and communities just towards each other. selves. And here he would ask if it did not create
It applied itself to the source of all action, the a feeling of dependance, unfavorable to the dis-
thoughts and interests of the heart. It entered the charge of the sacred office of a Christian ministers
secret chambers of the soul and there performed whose duty it was to declare the whole counsel of
its work silently and invisibly, but most effectually: | God, whether men would hear, or whether they
sin, it extinguished the would forbear. It would also operate as a discour-
embrye transgression. It subdued and controuled agement to young men of education and virtue,
the båd passions of men, by its powerful influence from entering into a profession where the means of
Are not these
their hopes and their fears,
upon
support were so uncertain and precarious. The
civil benefits; are not these effects good for the profession was truly a learned one, and much labor
state? But it is said that religion is a concern be- and expense were necessary to qualify a man'ſor its
tieen man and his maker; and so it is. Every proper and useful exercise. He would add induce-
man is responsible to God for his faith, and to God ments instead of discouragements. He considered
only. The state does not intermeddle with it. the two provisions in the constitution, the one pro
That is merely a personal concern, and every man viding
og for the establishment of schools, aņd the oth
must stand or fall, by his own faith. But the state er for a system of moral instruction, at 'the public
does take notice of the conduct of ren.
expense, as laying the only sure foundation of free
ishe's offences against christianity, such as blas- government. They were connected, supporting
phemy, bigamy &c. not for the purpose of uphold- and supported by each other. Knowledge by itself
ing it as a religion, but because they are offences was power, ann it was a power to do evil as well as
against the state, against the good manners and good; but connected with virtue, it became the in-
morals of society. Such a religious establishment strument of good to the state, and good only. He-
as the Constitution provides, rests, then, on the admired the wisdom, the foresight, and the virtue
same foundation as schools, courts of justice, or of the men who thus laid the foundations of
any other institution for the public good. They all
the state broad, and deep. It must rest upon
stand on the same ground of public utility, and the these or it must fall, for nothing else
same objections can as well be argued against one siistain it. He knew nothing that had more
as the other; and the right or duty of the state to of moral grandeur in it than the example of a poor
take the money of its inembers for such purposes, mau's son availing himself of the means provided
has no concern or connection with the conscien-11 by the state, of instruction in useful knowledge and
ees of men. The benefits of these institutions are virtue, rising to the highest offices, and becoming a
cominon to all; and all find their indemnity for the blessing and an ornament to his country. This is
money they contribute in the advantages they de- the best commentary upon the excellence of our
rive from them. But it is said that religion is so constitution. It is thus that the inequalities of con-
important that men will voluntarily support it. dition are compensated for, it is thus that men are
This is the argument most relied upon and merits made equal and kept so. It is thøse great results
examination. In the first place, it proceeds in political science, which we begun with, that are
wholly on a mistake: for it supposes that men will now shaking and heaving the ancient governments
always do, what is for their pernianent welfare to of Europe. Mr. D. then proceeded to answer some
do. This is not true. Reason is agaiust it, ma}} oſ ille various argumcuts and objections that had
experience is against it. It is for the welfare of Liceu urged on the other side, and concluded by
all men to be industrious and honest, and yet the saying, that he revered the right of private judy-
world abounded with indolence and fraud.. He ment in matters of religion as orach as any man.
appealed to tbe knowledge of gentlemen who He considered it as one of those iinportant results
heard him, lo say, if the christian religion was in human affairs, which required time, and labor,
as irell supported in those parts of our country, and suffering to accomplişli. He venerated the
where there was no legal provision for it, nanes of Luther, Melancton, Cranmçr and Cbil-
as it was in this state-if the Sabbath vas as lingworth. It was by such men, and by the heroic
well observed-if public wership was as well at- sufferings of their followers, that this great good
tended—if there were as many ministers supported
had cone down to us. Ho would preserve it
in proportion to the wealth and population--if | the constitution did preserve it; for no case of per-
there was as high a tone of morals and manners ?
secution for conscience sake ever did, or ever can
He adhoitted that there was such a stock of relig-
arise under it.
ious habit and fceling in the state, that it would re- Mr. SLOCUM, of Dartmouth, said that he '
quire time' to diminish or exhaust it-but he did should approach the temple with a fearfu) hand.“
believe, that if the provision in the constitulion was Nothing could occupy the attentior
cf the
abolished, we should perceive its decline in our day, committee of a more important nature. Hc
and our posterity would witness a still more lament- l hoped they should amend tho constitution
alle declension. Take the case of a small parish, so tirat they might leave it
a legacy
of which there were hundreds in the commons to their children that they might have something to
wealth, just able to support a Christian teacher, - walk upon. When \e heard the discourse of the
One man living at a distance drops off, another and learned gentleman from Bostop, lie thonght there
another follows, till the burthen becomes too oppres- was a proposition to turn the
pastors ont to
sive for the few who remain. The pastor is coin- feed on grass like Nebuchadnezzar, but upon re-
pelled to leave his flock, and all the countiess bless- flection, he found it was a question about encour-
ings of public worship, christian instruction, and aging religion and morality. He was in favor of
christian ordinances are lost forever. He could not the resolution of the gentleman from Pittsfield. If
contemplate such a moral picture without emotion, it should not be adopted, they should not liave that
On this subject, reason and experience agreed. It free exercise of religion there bad been so much
ivas dangerous to place the duty and the pecuniary blood spilt for. They had abolished a part of the
1
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
yant.
On
article authorizing the Legislature to compel atten- il provision of the constitution is, that the legislature
slanceSuppose they should have churches and shall from time to time authorize and require the
ministers to preach and nobodyto go and hear; in towns, parishes and religious" societies to make
what situation should they be in then ? Were suitable provision for the support and maintenance
they afraid that religion would not stand on its of public teachers of piety, religion and morality.--
own bottom? If it would not, it should be propa- If the power is taken from the legislature to intera
gated like Mabometanism, with the sword in one fere in matters of religion, they will have no right.
band and the bible in the other. If it was support- to interfere in matters of morality. If the gentle-
ed by law, it would be a law religion. If the re- man's proposition is adopted, nis concession in fav...
port of the committee was adopted it would not or of morality will amount to nothing. The two are.
make christians--it would make a hundred hypo-inseparably united. Morality cannot exist without
crites to one christian-religion would not flourish. religion.
religion. There may be a kind of morality with a
He was of opinion that if this resolution was en- false religion; it will be more or less pure accord.
grafted into the constitution, the people would rise || ing to the approach of religion to the truth--but
up and say, well done thou good and faithful ser- without religion it has no. sanction or power-it,
can have no influence. Without the sanctions of
Mr. FLINT, of Reading, admitted that religion || religion, men will follow their own desires--their
was an affair between God and man, but it was an pleasures
the dictates of their passions.. Morality:
affair that also had something to do between man has ito sanctions and can be no check. Take away
and man. Onr fathers came to this country because religion and you take awayall restraints.
they were oppressed—they came with the bible in the passions--on vice-on immorality:
their pockets and religion in their hearts. They es- Not all the standing armies on, earth could
tablished laws for the protection and promotion support a government without the restraints of re
of religion. The franers of the constitution also ligion-armies themselves could not exist without
declared that it was necessary to provide for the it. Nothing was so contrary to the experience of
support of public worship, and that it was the duty ) napkind, as that morality could be supported with-
of the Legislature to make such provision. He be- out religion. It is among the objects of civil gova.
lieved they were sincere in their belief that legal ernment to guard the property, person, and liberty
provision was necessary, and that they decided cor- of individuals. How were these to be guarded?
rectly. But it was now proposed to reject this Not merely by the vigilance of the civil magistrate
.clause in the constitution. "He argued that it was --not by inflicting punishment-no doubt these have
necessary to make legal provision for the support a very salutary effect on the community-but much:
of religious instructions, that there might be suffi- more was to be attributed to the institutions of re-
cient inducement to young men to qualify them- Higion--to instructions.which address themselves to
selves for the office of public instructors. It was a all classes of people, which make an impression or
profession which required thorough preparation, the minds of the young, infinitely more than to all
and long study to make a man useful in it. If reli- the vigilance of the magistrate. Without these ina
gion was encouraged by the government and the stitutions vigilance would be vain. Few crines are:
people, it would have the blessing of God, and committed without the expectation of escaping de-.
would flourish. He hoped that this part of the tection. It is therefore the influence of religious
coustitution would be preserved that it might be and moral impressions alone that restrains a great
handed down to posterity, as a proof of the regard | portion of mankind from the commission of crime.
of our ancestors and of the present generation for Do parents wish their children to be exposed to
religion.
temptation without being guarded by the influence
Mr. WILDE, of Newburyport, held it to be of these institutions ? Every one would say no.--
his duty to give his testimony against this resolu- He was aware that the gentleman who liad advo-
tion. He should have been much surprised at the cated the resolution had conceded the influence of
motion of the gentleman from Pittsfield, if he liad these institutions. But he had dwelt upon this.
not been apprised that similar sentiments liad bcen part of the proposition, because he considered the
entertained by some persons in some parts of the other part equally clear. He would beg
country: He was still surprised at the form in gentlemen to pause upon one or two considera-
which the proposition was introduced. The pre- tiens.
It was
said that religion would be
amble was copied in substance from the third supported without the aid of government,-
article of the declaration of rights. It declares granting this, it did not follow that it would be in-
that as the happiness of a people, and the jured by having
jured by having the aid of goveroment.
preservation of government depend upon re- vernment bas great means, power and influence
ligion and morality; and as these cannot be if the measure is good, how can we say that it.
generally diffused but by the instituuon of shall not exercise these? It had been said that
public worship, no person shall by law be com- religion was not to be propagated hy human means.
pelled to join or support any congregation or re- This he denied. He could demonstrate that
ligious society whatever. If this was a fair con- there was no truth in it. If it had been the in..
clusion from the premises, he did not understand tention of Providence to propagate religion with-
the gentleman's logic. As the article stands, the out human means, it might have been so ordained..
syllogism is perfect and the conclusion irresistible But the question is how has religion been propa-
-not that no person shall be compelled to support gated. It has been by human agency. Genile-
but that the people have a right to give the Legis- men, have conceded it. The gentleman from Bos-
lature power to require the support of religious in- ton spoke of the influence of the Bible Society;.
stitutions. If religion and morality are essential to that was one of the human means. Every thing
the happiness of a people, and if these cannot be that we know contradicts the position that human
diffused but by the institution of public worsbip and means can be dispensed with. If it is true, the in-
public instructions in religion and morality, it fol- struction of children hy their parents is a work
lows that it is the duty of government to provide for of superarrogation. The Reverend gentleman
the support of this worship and these instructions, himself is engaged in a work that is not necessary.
but it does not follow that because they are necessary But it is insisted that civil government cannot in-
they ought not to be supported by the civil govern- terfere without invading the rights of conscience,
ment. Thegentleman who introduced this resolution We have heard of persecutions aud massacres :
had no objection to the supportof schools of morality, but what have these to do with the third article ?
but did not schools of inorality and the institutions The framers of the constitution have guarded all
of religion depend on the same principle? The points. They were sensible that the people have
The go-
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171
1
o right to restrain a man in the exercise of the Our Saviour said that where two or three were as-
rights of conscience. They have gone farther sembled togetber in his name, there he would be
than the proposition of the gentleman from Pitts- in the midst of them-but the committee have said,
field, to show how the Legislature may provide that it shall take twenty to make a religious socie-
for the support of religious worship without inva- ty: He argued that religion would be supported
ding the rights of conscience. Gentlemen appear to without any legislative provision, and complained
overlook this. It is because other nations have in- of inconveniences which persons were subjected
terfered with the rights of conscience, and because to who where not of the prevailing denomination,
they have on that account acquired a prejudice a- He was in favor of the resolution.
gainst religious establishments, that they appre- Mr. QUINCY said he did not rise to take part in
hend mischief from this provision. Every nation the debate, but to suggest that it was not proper at
has a right to establish religion as one of the sup- this time to take the question, as there were gen.,
ports of government they have the right to estal- tlemen who were desirous of expressing their sen-
lish a particular religion, if they see fit, reserving timents on this subject. He wished also that gen-
to individuals the right of worshiping God accor- tlemen might have an opportunity to analyze the
ding to the dictates of their own conscience. He proposition, and for that purpose that it might be
did not say it was expedient, far from it---but that printed. The proposition appeared to him to be
they have a right. The fault of those who have entirely inconsequential. If he could suppose the
exercised this right is, that they have undertaken gentleman from Pittsfield to be of a mischievous
to say that every individual shall worship in a par. humor, he should think he intended to bring that
ticular mode. This is what they have no right to grave assembly into ridicule. His proposition is
interfere in. If the third article is not already suf- as religion and morality are essential to the happi-
ficiently guarded, let it be so. It may require ness of a people; and as they cannot be supported
modifications, and he was willing to make them.-- without the institution of public worship_therefore
He agreed with the gentleman from Lynn, in most no person shall be classed for the support of pnblic
that he had said that gentleman admitted the im- worship. He moved that the committee should
portance of religious instruction. But he contend-
rise and report progress. The motion was agreed
ed that it did not need the aid of goveriment. tomand
No doubt without this aid there would be a great The House adjourned,
deal of religion. In Boston and in other large
towns, it would be liberally supported, because they
have the power and the disposition. How did
FRIDAY, DEC. 22
they get the principle that will'induce them to fur-
nish this support ? Was it not from the influence
The Convention met at 9 o'clock, and attended
of the protection which has heretofore been given prayers offered by the Rev. Mr. Jenks. The jour-
to it? Where did the principle which gave rise
nal being read,
to the British Bible Society spring from? Was it
Mr. DRAPER, of Spencer, moved the following
order-
not from the religious establishment, which was so
much censured ? No doubt there would always
Ordered, That no original proposition to
'be religion in the world. It was not the question alter and amend the constitution shall be re-
whether religious people would support religous ceived by the Convention after Monday next.
institutions, but was it rght, and equal that men
He explained his object to be to expedite the
who have no regard for religion should not
give their aid to the support of religious es-
progress of business and aid in bringing it to a.
close,
tablishments, which were acknowledged to be
Mr. QUINCY thought that such an order could
80 essential to the interests of the community ? -
not have any effect in leading to the object intend-
He thought not. Gentlemen had spoken of diffi-
ed. It was negatived..
'culties which had arisen under the third article.--
On motion of Mr. QUINCY, the order of the day
These might be avoided-One man had lost 300 being the unfinished bustness of yesterday was post-
dollars--because he would not pay his money with,
out a law suit. He should not suppose he would
poned, and the convention went into committee of
have conscientious scruples about paying money,
the whole on the report of the select committee, to
whom was recommitted their former report on that
The gentleman from Malden had had a lawsuit and
part of the constitution relating to the Governor,
had spent 30 dollars to save 20-this was very like-
Militia, &c. Mr. Dana in the chair. The resolu-
ly, but it was no argument. There will be lawsuits, l\tions reported by the committee as substitates for
and it is no argument against the law that there those which they had before reported, were then
are men who will lead honest people into difficulty. read as follows:-
The reverend gentleman had maintained that with
the Jews, religion was not supported by the civil
1st. Resolved, That it is expedient so to
government. He had heen of a very different o-
alter the constitution as to provide, that the
pinion--he had supposed if there ever was a nation day on which votes are annually to be given
where religion was supported by law, more than in for Governor, shall in future be the
any other it was the Jewish natron. The govern-
day of
instead of the first Monday of
ment itself was a Theocracy, and religion was in-
terwoven with the whole frame of it. He believ-
April: And that the “first Wednesday in
ed that however the convention might dispose of
January” be substituted for the “last Wednes-
the third article, this proposition would not prevail day in May," in every place where these
He was satisfied that gentlemen would not wipe a- words occur in the first section of second
way the adın irable principles contained in the ar-
ticle, merely from the apprehension that there
Chapter of the second part of the Constitu-
might be some difficulty arising from ių,
tion.
Mr. MARTIN, of Marblehead, said that the pro-
2d. Resolved, That it is expedient to alter
vision of the constitutiou had stood unimpaired the constitution so that hereafter the Govern-
from 1780 to 1804 when the Legislature undertook
to revise it. Chier Justice Parsons decided that
or, with the Counsellors, or any four of them,
he would know no religious society unless it was
may hold a Council for ordering and direct-
an incorporated one. He Mr. M.wasthena mcm-
ing the affairs of the Commonwealth.
ber of the Legislature and the table of the House was
3d. Resolved, That it is expedient so to
crowded with petitions for acts of incorporation). alter the constitution, as no-looger to require
;
i
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NUM.
more
172
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
the Governor to dissolve the General Court || principle should be adopted in relation to the iní-
on the day preceding the day of the Gener-
, .
al Election.
Mr. FISHER, of Lancaster, moved to amend
the resolution by striking out the word 'not-so aš
4th. Resolved, That it is expedient so to
to reverse the import of the resolution.
alter the constitution as to provide, that No- The question was taken on the amendment, and
taries Public shall hereafter be appointed by decided in the affirmative--147 to 135.
the Governor, with advice of Council, in the The question recurred on the resolution as a-
mended.
'same manneras Judicial Officers are appoint-
Mr. NICHOLS of South Reading spoke iu fa-
ed.
your of the resolution. Doubts had beed enter-
5th. Resolved, That it is expedient so to
tained whether minors were eligible to office be-
cause they were not voters. But if they were ex-
alter the constitution as to provide, that Offi,
cluded from holding office in the militia it would
cers commissioned to command in the Militia,
be a great injnry. They form the best ofticers,
may be removed from office in such manner they are the soul of the soldiery.
as the Legislature may by law prescribe.
Mr. VALENTINE of Hopkinton thought it
The blank in the first resolution was filled by in- of great importance, and it was the opinion of the
gerting the first Monday of November, and the five officers of the militia generally, that minors per-
resolutions were severally read and agreed to; some
forming militia duty, should have the right of rol-
remarks explanatory of the views of select com- ing for subaltern officers. When the choice was
mittee being made on several of them by Mr. VAR- made it was vecessary, that the whole company
should be called together because there was not
The following resolution reported by the same way of distinguishing, who were under twenty one
sommittee on a proposition referred to them, was years of age, and who were over, Those who
then read.
were under age were therefore liable for a
Resolved, That it is not expedient to alter
fine for non-attendance. They were often
eleeted to subaltern , offices and frequently
the constitution, so as to provide, “that no
commanded companies, and made the best officers
able bodied citizen between the ages of eight-
ili the militia. · Men under age were much
een and forty-five, be exempt frona military useful than those over thirty and forty. A man
duty, or an equivalent therefore, the Judges thirty years old is not wortlı much in the ranks,and
of the Supreine Jadicial Court, Ministers of
abore forty he is worth less than nothing in the
common militia companies. He said it had been
the Gospel, and Quakers excepted.
the practice, before the time of Gov. Sullivan, for
Mr. VARNUM said that to adopt the proposition minors to vote in the choice of their officers. But
would be running counter to the long established it was decided by him, no doubt correctly, that the
practice of the Commonwealth, of exenipting Milpractice was unconstitutional. Since that time it
itia Officers who had served a certain number of had been prohibited. This prohibition had creat-
years. Judges of Courts and other persons, whom ed great uneasiness and conſusion in the militia,
the General Court had seen fit to exempt. The and had greatly diminished its spirit and utility.
Legislature were perfectly conpetent to act on the Mr. MATTOON, of Amherst, was one of the se-
subjeci, and if any change in the laws was expedi-lect Coinmittee and was in favor of the alteration."
ent they could make the change. No provision in He had experienced great difliculty from the deni-
the constitution was necessary.
al of the right of voting to minors enrolled in the
Mr. FREEMAN, of Sandwich, spoke against militia. A great deal depended on the youug men
the resolution
when they first came into the trainbands, and it
The resolution was then agreed to.
had a very injurous effect on them to refuse their
The following resolution reported by the samé votes in the choice of their officers:
committee, was taken up.
Mr. VARNUM said that minors had in some in-
Resolved, That i: is expedient so to amend
stances been chosen as officers in the militia. But:
as far as his observation liad extended they were
the constitution, as to provide, “ that, in case
very few. But who were they chosen by? It was
the offices of Secretary and Treasurer of the by men of mature age who were competent to
Commonwealthi, or other of them, shall be- judge of the qualifications for office. He thought
come vacant, from any cause, during the re-
it a violation of general principles to permit mja;
cess of the General Court, the Governor, Clude them from voting in all other elections.
nors to vote for officers of the militia, and to 'ex-
with advice of the Council, under such reg- Mr. VALENTINE mentioned another consid-
ulations as the Legislature may prescribe, eration wliich had before slipped his mind. Mi-
shall appoint a fit and proper person to such
oors when elected to be officers were entitled as
vacant office, whe shall hold the same, until
soon as chosen to give their votes in the choice of
field officers. The number of minors so elecied
' a successor shall be appointed by the General
within his knowledge ivas considerable. The com-
Court.
manding officer of the regiment was the most im-
Tie-resolution was agreed to.
portant officer in the militia, yét the minor who was
The following resolution reported by the same prohibited from roting in the choice of captain and
committee was then taken up.
subalterus, might be elected to the command of a
Resolved, That it is not expedient so to
regiment, wbich was in fact, the most important
ofice in the militia.
alter the constitution, as that the Captains
Mr. MARTIN was in favor of the resolution as
and Subalterns of the Militia shall be elected
aniended. Washington was an officer when he
by the members of their respective Compan- was under twenty one years of age. He hoped
jes, without regard to age.
that such boys as he, would not be deprived of the
Mr VARNUM said that the committce thought right of voting for their own officers.
it inexpedient to make an alteration that should Mr. FAY, of Cambridge, was on the select:
give minors a right of voting in the choice of mili-
Committee but he did not agree to the report.
fia officers. They were denied the right in all oth-
He was in favor of the resolution as it was abend-
er elections, and be saw no reason why a different
ed. His reason was, that it would tevd to produce
barmony in the militia. The Guties of the mililia
1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
iig ។
年
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.
Pere Surders, and it was proper to make them aslı vision therein, respecting persons who have
light as possible.y. It was a different case from the
sloice of civil officers. The minors serving in the religious scruples
about bearing arms.
Mr. VARNUM, said that the select comiñittee.
hvilitia, may be perfectly competent to judge of the
considered this as a legislative act, and were of o:
qualifications for, a.subaltern ôffice and not compe-
pinion that the legislature would make such excep:
tent 10 judge in other matters.
Mr. TALBOT, of. Sloughton, was in. favour orl er. He did not think it expedient by a constitu-
tions from time to time as they should think prop.
the resolution as it was amended. In ocher elec-
tional act to deprive the legislature of the power
{ions minors have their parents and guardians to
vote for them. It is not so in the militia.
to make such regulations as expérience should
show to be necessary.
Mr. MACK, of Middlefield, said that when the
Constitution was adopted, young men were requir- || hear the explanation of the chairman of the selecţ
Mr. ENOCH MUDGE; of Lyrin, was happy to
ed to serve in the militia at . sixteen years of age.
coirimittee, and the opinion that the legislature had
Phey were not now, until they were Eighteen.
the right to grant the reliéf which was demanded:
There might be a good reason for not admitting
But he said that in the Constitution of other ?
minors to vote at that time which would not apply states, permanent provision had been made for this
pow. The militia have great burdens to bear, and
They should be so treated that tlicy may bear them
object--and he wiſhed it might be done in the
Constitution of this Commonwealth. He said that
cheerfully.
there were persons besides Quakers who had relia
Mr. HÖYT of Deerfield; svould not object to
gious scruples against bearing arms, and it was
the proposition if it could be confined to the spe: useless to enrol them and to attempt to compel
cific object now in view. But if we once opened them to perform a service which their consciences
the door to persons under age to vote for officers of would not permit them to perform: They were
the militia, we should be obliged to do it so that willing to bear their portions of the public bur
thëy may vote for officers of every descrmtion.
It will be argued that every male person of fifteen quivalent to the performance of military duty, to
thens, and if they were permitted to pay a sum.e.
years of age is liable to a tax, and why should be appropriated to the maintenance of the poor or
they not be entitled to vote for the Representatives | to the support of goverúñent; they would be satisé
who are to assess the tax on thiemselves. IC. he
fied:
was sure it would stop here, he would vote for the
Mr. HOYT thought that ample provision was
resolution.
Mr. PARKER, of Boston, said that the same
måde already for the object--authority was gives
Constitution which provided ilät minors should by the laws of the United States for regulating the
militia, to the Legislatures of the states to make
vote in the election of militia officers, would pro- | such exemptions as they should see fit. He quoted
tide that they should not vote for other officers.
à passage from the law in support of his opinion:
Mr. APTHORP, of Boston, was opposed to the
He was opposed to the resolution.
resolution, because he thought that the argunients Mr. TILLINGHAST, of Wreritham; thought
in favour of it would be urged for extending the the gentleman did not understand the state of the
right to other elections.
case. The law of the United States to be sure,
Mr. SULLIVAN, of Boston; was in favour of gave the Legislatures of the states power to exempt
such person's as they should see fit. But if the
the United States and of the Commonwealth re-
constitution of the commonwealth deprived them
quired young men, not of age to perforri, certain
of the power, they could not exercise the discre.
important duties. They were important, not only
to those who were in the militia, but were very
tion. He hoped the resolution would not prevail:
There were other persons besides Quakers who
material to those who stay at hone. The men so
employed ivere la be commanded by certain per- and he saw jo
bad conscientioụs scruples against bearing, armøy
and be saw so reason why tliey should not
sons, to be elected by a pärt, or the whole of those
be entitled to the same exemption from the obligaš
who were in the ranks." Was it to be supposed tion. He thought that the adoption of an amend-
that any part of them would serve so cheerfully if | mënt that should extend the exemption to all pers
deprived of their voice in. choosing those under sons wlið had conscientious scruples, was but an act
whom they niay he called to rislė their lives. The
minor is warned to all meetings for the choice of
of justice to those who have those scruples, and
officers. If he is absent he miust pay a fine, if he is
that it would have a most beneficial effect on the
there he can do nothing. It is a hard duty lo serve in
community.
the militia for which there is very little encourage- döpted:
Tlie qüestion was taken and the resolutioä áo.
ment. This was not connected with any other e- The following resolution reported by tlie samé
lections. . It was a case by itself. If minors were committee was then taken up.
permitted to vote, it would relieve one of the em,
barrassments that attend
the service. If the mic alter the Constitution, as to provide, thắt in
Resolved; That it is not expedient so to
influence and examiple of those to whon this arti- tuturē, the Captains, Subalterns, Non-com-
cle refers.
missioned Officers and Privates of the Mili-
Mr: BEACH, of Gloucester; spoke in favor of tiá of the Commonwealth, shall severally be
in the militia; and it was the opinion of officers
was the opinion of officers exempted from ihe payment of a poll tax,
that it woald be useful to extend the riglit of yo-
during the time they may be liablë to do.
ting to all who were enrolled in the service. One military duty.
third of the officers in the brigade to which he be-
longed, were miņors.
The resolution was agreed tog ånd die committee
rose.
Mr. SLỚCUM, spoke in favor of the resolution: The resolutions were then severally, read in con-
The question was taken on, agreeing to the reso-
vention a first time; and passed to a second
lution as amended and decided in the affirmative. reading and assigned to tomorrow at 9 o'clock,
A motion that tlie committee rise and report On the reading of thie resolution relating to reļi-
progress, wąs negatived 139 to 192.
gious scruples against bearing arms Mr: WARE, Of
The following resolution reported by the select || Boston, moved to aniend it by striking out the word
committee above described was then taken up. “not” so as to reverse the import of the resolutioü
Resolved, That it is not expedient so to
Some debate arose, after which the motion to an
altor the
Constitution, as to make any pró-mend was negatived and the resolution, passed.
Leave of absence was thon granted to Mr. Prinde
1
23
174
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
!
, ,
į
of Newburyport, Mr. Weston; of Middleboi ougli, or any other. He hoped the substance, at least;
Mr. Abraham Lincoln, of Worcester', Mr. Sibley, of the proposition of the gentleman from Pittsfield
of Sutton, and Mr. Holmes, of Kingston,
would be adopted.
DECLARATION OF RIGHTS,
MI SPRAGUE, of Malden, said it was a ty-
The house went into committee of the whole op l'anny in the highest degree; to compel a man to
the declaration of rights; Mr. Varnum in the chair i vorship in a manner contary to the dictates of his
On motion of Mr. PARKER, of Boston, Mr. conscience. He thought the 2d and 3d articles
Childs had leave to alter his resolution so as to clashed amazingly, the 2d article be admired, the
tead as follows :
the 3d he thought absurd. Religion was an affair
As the happiness of a people and the good order between God and our own souls. He concluded
and preservation of civil government essentially de with oight lines from the poet, the purport of which
pend upon piety, religion and morality; and as was, that it was vain to attempt to bind by human
These cannot be generally diffused through a com- laws the souls which was accountable to God alone,
munity, but by the public worship of God; and as Mr: FOSTER; of Littleton said he was op-
the public worship of God will be best promoted, || posed to the present propositions; and to the report
by recognizing the unalienable right of every man of the selectCommittee. He agréed with the gen-
to render that worship in the mode most consistent tlemen from Beverly that when a contract was
with the dictates of his own conscience ; therefore made between a religious teacher and bis flock, it
no person shall by law &c. [a3 in Wednesday's ought to be enforced; but the gentleman in ac mit-
tmg this gave up his argument that the civil gova
Mr. WILLIAMS, of Beverly; said that some erninent should not interfere in the support of reš
gentlemen seemed to suppose, that all who were ligion. In answer to the gentleman from Boston
in favut of the present proposition; were in favor (Mr. Baldwin) he would say that the same sacred
of removing all religion from the state. He wish- person who commanded his disciples to take-no-
ed to remove this impression. He considered that purse or scrip, also said that the laborer was wor-
religjon was of great consequence in the con- thy of his hir'e. He cited other examples from
monwealth, and that the government should pro- scripture to shew the propriety of clergymen hava
tect all persons in the enjoyment of their religious
religious || ing a regular support. Gentlemen hud said this
rights and privileges. He was opposed to the pres- should be done freely: He said it was done
ent provision in the Constitution. He understood so under our Constitution. Though the name of
that the 3d article allows a tax wliich favored one a tax was become odious, nothing could be
rcligious denomination, and he understood that the more voluntary than the people taxing themselves.
repor: of the select commiitee had the same ob. Gentlemen had talked a great deal about Church
jeci. He thought the terms of the Constitution and State-about civil authority, (that awful orea,
were not so explicit and intelligible as some gen- ture) about the base amalgamation of religion and
tlemen had asserted, He admitted the premises civil government. They say that religios and civil
in the third article, but not the conclusion. He
government cannot exist together. If that was the
considered that liborty of action and of opinion was case then onć of them must go out of the world.
given by the Constitution to only one religious de But he did not apprehend any such result. The
nomination, that of Congregationalists. He deni- niagistrate did not put off religion when he put on
ed that the operation of the Constitution had been his lobe of oſlice-men did not cease to be Christ-
equal; as the gentleman from Concord had assert- ians by entering into the legislature. The legisla:
ee; but lie said some persons liad been obliged to ture was a body of men who were to see that coula
pay, where they had received no benefit. Some. tracts were ſullillsd. There was nothing in this con-
times the taxes of minor children were paid to the trary to religion. If religion could take care of it-
support of public worship where the father ata self, why does it not go to India, of its own accord,
tended, and where they did not. He understood it without the aid of the numerous societies for propo
had been said that persons might go from one so- agating the gospel ? No, God requires that maans
ciety to another at their pleasure. He denied the should be used for the support of religion. Much
fact. He inentioned that in one town there was a had been said about other states having no such
sacieiy; comprisiog almost all the inhabitants, and provisions in their constitutions; and what was the
that afterwards a society of Congregationalists || consequence? They were continually sending to
grew up there, and taxes paid to the treasurer us for ministers and hegging for contributions to
were applied to the support of this worship in con- support them. In respect to the union of civil au-
sequence of the provisions in the Constitution. He thority with religion, he would state a fact,—that
thought this was unequal. He agreed that con- between the years 1809 and 1914, there were sev-
tracts between the teachers and societies ought to enty religious societies made application to be in-
be enforced; although some gentlemen thought corporated ; and of these there was but one of the .
otherwise, He did not apprehend, if the present denomination of Congregationalists. Why make
proposition were adopted, that the Sabbatli would these applications, if the civil government is of no
be neglected, that public schools and other benév- use to religion? There was no subordination of
olent institutions would go down; for we had sects cstablished by our coóstitution. The provision
experience to
the contrary.
He objected in this respect was complete. If there was any
that it was impossible to enforce the present pro- society that did not enjoy equal privileges with evo-
visions. He thought it unfair to say that religion ry' other, he would not leare that assembly without
did not take care of itself
originally, bocause it was doing every thing in his power to effect that
protected by its anthor'; for its author had no pow- object. He did not believe the third article could
er to protect it ; except so far as miracles went- be rendcred much better by the wisdom of any
our Saviour derived no aid fi:om the civil ar. He body of men. It enabled people to worship where
said that under the word Protestants which applies they pleased. There was a proposition before the
to a great many varieties of religion, the govern: committee to suit the case of those unfortunate
meat had established one particular denomination. persons who do not belong any where, and who
He denied the propriety of mising civil and relig- do not intend to. He would have them belong
ious institutions. Wleis in the dark ages, from somewhere, and behave themselves like men and
which we ought not take example, the amalgama- bcar their proportion in the support of society.
tion of these invo distinct: things was made, it was Religion was su essential to private happiness and
done for improper purposes, and was attended public security that he would not do anything ty
with mischier. The people had no right to estab- lessen its influence. This depended a great deal
lish any religion, whether Protestant or Catholic, on the ability of the public teachers. But if you
MASSACHUSETTS. CONVENTION,
175
::
have no preacher except a beggar what will fol-| God according to the dictates of his own coñi
low ? He had been told that it had already be-l science, was universally conceded. But it is con:
come a common saying--the more ignorance the tended that notwithstanding he has this right, the
more grace. He hoped we should never give upli coinmunity bas a right to impose upon him a tax to
that principle in our constitution which lies at the support what he belieyes to be heresy. Mr. H,
root of all that is valuable and sacred in society: wished gentlemen to reconcile these two proposi-
Mr. DEAN, of Boston, said bewas not concern- tions. He did not'see the difference between being
ed lest he should be thought to be in- obliged to attend on religious instructions agaiúst
imical to the Christian religion ; that if his conscience, and advancing, money to support
Christianity had done. notliing mare, than such instructions. He knew that monicy was not
to teach men that they had equal right illl religion. But we were as much obliged to with-
would be entitled to everlasting veneration. He hold money demanded for supporting Heresy as to
venerated the class of men who devoted their exercise llie duties of religious worship accorging
lives to its service, and he wished that they might to our own conscience. He saw no difference in
have an ample support. Tlie question is not the principle ; if there was any he wished gentlea
whether we shall abolish this religion, but in what men would show it. He proceeded to notice the
manner it can be best supported, so as to be most arguments of gentlemen against the resolution.com
beneficial to mankind. He was on the side of those The gentleman from Boston, in answer to the ar:
who were in favor of a support, by the voluntary gument,that religion would support itself wherever
contributions of the lovers of this religion; and for it was not interrupted by the hands of power, said
several reasons. In the first place, the kingdom that in the primitive ages, Christ was on earth and
of this religion was different froin the kingdom of did not need the support of the civil authority. Mr.
this world, and ought not to be governed by the H. asked why he needed it now, it must be either
laws of this world. Civil governors do not koow because he had power then, which he lias not now
what belongs to the Christian religion, and are or because he has not the inclination now to sup-
therefore incapable of bestowing rewards and im- poi't the cause of religion. The gentleman might .
posing restraints in regard to it. He was glad to take which result lie pleased. The gentleman
hear his colleague (Mr. Baldwin) yesterday men, from Boston had taken a view of the decalogue to
tion the evils which have arisen from establishing show that it had been the foundation of laws since
national religions. When our religion had its But he oniitted a very inaterial : commandmenty
greatest power, and spread with the greatest ve- worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thon
locity it was not owing to miracles, or to force, serve.' 'This was pronounced under the severest
but to argument. It was never intended by the penalties. The decaloguo enjoined !wo classes of
author of religion, that it should be established and duties, those to our Maker, and those to our neigha
promulgated by the civil power, or by compulsion. || bour.' The first of these did not come within the
It was intended that its teachers should be support- powers of the Legislature. The gentleman fiom
ed, not upon air, but by the voluntary contributions Chelsea bad said tliat when Constantine assun:cd
in temporal things, of those who received from the power to establish religion it was corrupted ;
then spiritual things. Another objection to the but who is to judge ? Had not Constantine the
article as it now stands, was, that it made the same right to judge that we have? It was propos-
teachers too independent of those who were in-
sed to substitute the word Christian for Protestant
Structed. A mutua! dependence was productive in the third article. He was at a loss to know
of mutual benefit. It was said that government had
what either of the words meant. We had a riglat
a right to levy taxes. He agreed that it had for to limit our religion to either, or to the religion of
political purposes; but it did not thence follow, the Grand Lama as much as either. There was
that they had a right to support public worship by no reason to be given but that the inajority of the
taxes It was said that religion must be supported
Convention was in favor of it. Another argument
by means. It was true; but it should be by spirit- was that the people have a right to make such
ual means, and not by the same as those by which provisiņn as shall be for the general good. Wlio
we manage our temporal concerns. If it is leſt 10 is to judge trhat is for the general good ? If the
Heaven to support religion-religion will be sup- Legislature can judge of this, there is no need of
ported.
a Constitution. The gentleman from Litileton,
On motion of Mr. FAY, of Cambridge, the com- had quoted the passage of scripture: they that
inittee rose-221 to 66-reported progress and had
preach the gospel shall live by the gospel--but be
leave to sit again.
did not tell what it was to live by the gospel. He
A motion was made to adjourn---negatived, 118
should have said live by the law. The same gen.
to 236.
lleman had asked, why we support inissionary so-
A motion was made that when the house ad- | cieties, and bible societies; was there ever a cent
jorned,
it should adjourn to half past 3 o'clock p.M. of the money for the support of these raised by a
Mr. Foster and Mr, Martin, opposed the motion, tax ? Gentlemen apprehended that if this resolu
and Mr. Marcy, of Greenwich, spoke in favor tion passed, in a very short time
gross darkness
of it. Tlie motion was decided in tlie afirmative. Would envelope the people. He asked if that was
The house then adjowned.
the case now, in the town of Boston ? Did they
AFTERNOON SESSION.
not support religion as well as in towns were it was
The convention met according to adjournment, supported by a tax.
and went again into committee of the whole, on the
Mr. SALTONSTALL said he rose with un:
untinished business of the forenoon, viz. the reso- usual ombarrassment, because the subject had been
đution offered by Mr. CruLUS.
so ably discussed, and still more, because of its in-
Mr. CHILDS spoke at some at some length in trinsic importance; he thought it more important
support of the resolution.
than any that had hécu considered. It is a trifling
Mr. HOLMES, of Rochester, said that lic had question comparatively, how the council shall be
attended carefully to the arguments pro and con,
chosco, or whether there be any council ; whether
but there were some doubts on his mind that had the senate be fonnded on valuation or population,
pot been settled. It was a principle that had been or how the house of representatives is modifiedline
repeatedly recognised by gentlemen on both sides, we shall have a legislature so constructed as to in-
that the duty of religious worship is an affau that suile a free government but strike out the consti-
civil government has nothing to do with, and lies tutional provision for the support of public worship,
exclusively between God and the soul. That it and who can tell the consequences ? As was said
Wasan irdeleasible right of every one to worship lt by the able gentleman from Boston, (Mr. Blake
77
176
(MASSACHUSETTS SONYENTION:
+
We hayeheretofore boan inspecting the superstruct-) as well as any other means for the same end? I
ürek'we are now examining the foundation, and he provides a most beautiful and liberal system' ; mak.
doubted not the result of the examination would be ing it the duty of towns and parishes to make this
that the foundation would be found laid firm and provision, but consistently with perfect religious
deep, and capable of sustaining a superstructure freedom. No denomination is established. The
that may reár 'its lofty head to the skies. Two clection is given expressly to each society, and of
questions arise--firsi as to the righi of government, course to the majority of cacli." There is no more
and second, wliether there is any thing in the sub- hardship in being obliged to contribute towards the
ject-religion--which should prevent or restrict support of a minister than any other teacher. You
this right. There is no subject upon which such may have no children to send to school, or may
inadequate vieşvs are entertained as the duty, and it like his opinions, or his mode of instruction, or
of course the right, of government. A stranger ac- nube willing to contribute to the same object in
quainted with this subject, would be surprised at some other way--but the tax you must pay. The
some of our debates upon the rights of the people right of spciety in both cases rests on the same
in fraining a government. They have a righit to a- foundation--the right to tax for the common good;
dopt such pieasures as will promote the happiness and the reason is the same, the cominion benefit
of the people and the good order and preservation received, as members of society. Objections have
of civil society. Whatever tends to promote these been made to the abstract right of government, and
great objects, it is the duty of government to cher- to the particular provisions of the constitution. It
ish and support, because these are the objects for is stiange how much sensitiveness there is on this
which government is instiuited. The design of subject." No one hesitateş to confer on govern-
government is not merely the security of life against moni the power of inflicting any punishment, even
those who yould açack it, and property against death itself for 'any crime; but the moment you
those who would plunder it, bul to improve the would attempt by the milgence of religion to deal
character and condition of those who are subject to stroy şin in einbryo, an alarm is excited! Mr. S.
it.' Mr. S, cnlarged upon this point.' Is it true then answered the objections made against grant-
then, that the happiness of a people and the good ing the legislature any power on tļie subject of re.
order and preservation of civil government, do es- Jigion,-as that "religion is under tbe protection of
sentially depend upon piety, religion and morality? lc Almighty, who will take care of his church?
All seen to admit this, and yet their tendency to that his kingdom is not of this world.” His kinga
promote these great objects has not been suflicient- || dpn is not of this world in the highest sense, bem
ly considered. "The christian reiigion is the great callse our final reward will be in anoiber ; but in a
bond of civil society. It teaches us that we are all most important sense it is, because it would make
children of one beneficent Parent, who constantly us good members of society--would prepare us for
watches over uş for good, who notices all our ac- å betler state by making us good in all the relations
dions, and will hereafter 'reward or punish us, as of life. We are told that the king loms of this world
they have been good or evil. lự teaches us that will become the kingdoms of our Lord. May poť
God is erery where present, that he knows our governments co-operate in this glorious design ?--
most secret thougts, that he sees uis where no hu-
(Mr. S. noticed other objections, which we have
man eye can, and willo
ñol room to to insert.] We are told that the oon's
man laws cannot reach us. What an 'iminense ef- ștituțion grants exclusive favors to one denomina-
ſect would the single doctrine of accountability have tion, Will gentlénien read the constitution ? No
on the conduct, il properly roalized. Our religion || language can be plainer. "It is most explicitly de-
i also contains the irosi comprehensive as well as clared that “every denomination shall be equally
minute directions for our conduct towards each under the protection of the law.” It is elevated far
other, declared under the most tremendous sanc- above all partial considerationsmit regards all in
tions--all our hopes of happiness, all our fears of the equal favor as all agreeing in the same essen
suffering directions, which in proportion as they tial principles, and leading to the same great ob-
are obeyed, supersede the necessity of human laws. "ject, the Father of all. lione parish alone, in
But this is not all.
sonie places where'there are several societies, lavę
" How small of all the ills, that inen endure the right of taxing non-resident lands, &c. it is bę.
That part, which laws or ķing's can make or cause they have been leſt in the possession of this
right. When a part of a parish (referred to Lynn)
It is on the observance of duties of imperfect obli- | became Methodists, they separaled, and petitiones
gation, whicla human laws cannot reach, but which for an incorporation with certain powers, whicle
are the great care of religion, that our happiness es were granted, have they any right to complain ?
sentially depends, Can the regulations of society And so of the other societies, and the little remnaſt
make us kind and affectionate and faithful in the all is left with the obligation to support public wo
worshipa
relations we bear in lifc? Religion extends to the and would you deprive them of their ancient rights?
ticari-human laws concern actions alone. Relig- Would you punish them for 'adhering to the relig.
jon cleanses the fountain, that it may send forth ion of their fathers ? 'There is nothing exclusive de
pure streams to refresli society, Christianity also this it would be the same, should the majority sf
furnishes a model of the character she would form. à parish be of any denonimation. This principle
Moreoyer, it reveals to us the perfections of Jeho- is not confined to parishes; it is thesame as to towns.
vah, the great object of worship and source of a'! When a part is separated, the remainder has allthe
good, and commands us to be perfect as he is per- || rights or the town not expressly granted to the new
fecr." Who' their can doubt tfiat the happiness of corporation.
à people and the good order and preservation of It is said also to be inoperative-It is indeed tog
pivil government do essentially depend upon such | inoperative, and ought to be made more effcctual;
a system of 'piery, religion and morality." These but this objection does not well conie from those
are principles in which all agree--the essential who complain of it asesclusire and oppressive. Some
principles of piety, religion and morulity. The con- little cases of individual hardship have been stated,
Suitution' then asserts that these cannot be generally and some law suits have grown out of it, in wbichi
Kliffusest, but by the instiution of public
worship however those who complain, claim always to have
and insiruction. Mr. S: erforced this. It then obtained a remedy. Whai gencral law is thicie, ok
follows as a necessary inference,' that to promote what part of the Constitution against which such
ühese great ohjects, the people have a right to invest objections may not be made? They prove nothing
the legislature with the power, &c. (as in the con- against a great principle. But it is said some do
tition.) And why ?ot this as a civil institution, not go to meeting, and shall they pay for what they
.
{ {
cure,
1
17 学
​A
,
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
1
receive no benefit? They do receive a benefit.in system of education, schools of a higher order, to
the greater security of every thing dear to thein. furnish instruction in piety, religion and morali-
Due objection was not to be expected that Min- ty.” Hów great and good must have been the in:
isters were now too independent !!! The great ob- Huence of such institutions. To gather together in
jection, that meets us at every turn is, that.“? Reli- the house of God, and there be reminded of their
gion will take care of itself??" Where has this ex- common relation to our Father and to each other;
periment been tried ? Not in Europe I know not to listen to tlle sublime doctrines and norąl pre-
wbcre except in Asia Minor; and where are now cepts of christianity-what a great though silent
the “ seven churches ?'! Those golden' candlesticks influence must it have had it falls like the gen-
have long since been removed. We are referred tle rain from heaven''It distills like the early
to the support of dissenters in England, and of the dew.x Mr. S. then described the manner in
various denominations here, but does it appear that whicir-the State had been divided into parishes;
this support would have been given, except religion each with its pastor, &c. the salutary effect proí
had been established in England, and provided for duced on the eharacter of the people, and the
in our Constitution? In this country the fearful ex- cause of learning and civil liberty. - Mr. S. thought
periment is still in process, whether i'eligion will the adoption of the resolution would end in the
ţake care of itself, and fas ar as tried, it has not destruction of very many religious societies,notim.
been successful. Mr. S. then referred to several mediately; the good influence of our institutions
States, where, except in large cities, very few set- may prevent that. Our temples of worship will
Hed clergymen of education are to be found. As decay and fall around us. Those beautiful spires
to the unequal operation of this article in Boston, that now ornament our towns and villages will
&c. by its own terins it does not operate on any fall to the ground. The effect on the character of
place where voluntary provision is made. Its in- the clergy will be pernicious.; the inducements to
direct influence does much every where. " Mr. S. enter into the profession will be lessened, and there
made objections to the Report of the Select Com- will be no permanency in contracts with ministers.
mittee, and shewed in what manner be thought the The dissolution of so many religious corporations
resolution under consideration would produce the will be an act of great violence." We have heard
same effect as expunging the 3d Article. Is it then much of the corporate rights of towns. We must
expedient to abolish this provision ? It is for the not touch them, even if necessary to correct the
advocates of the change to prove this beyond all greatest evil under the Constitution, the numer-
question. Show the evil it has produced Point ous House of Representatives. Nocorporate
to the oppression it has caused." Whose rights of rights and privileges are sacred things. And are
conscience have been violated? Go not back a not the rights of Parishes quite as ancient and sa-
century for cause of persecution--point them out cred and much more important? If any evils, cor-
under the Constitution. If a few cases of individu- rect them—but why dostroy several hundred cor-
al hardship have happened in the course of forty i porations. Allusions have been made to the errors
years, cannot the same thing be said of every part of our ancestors. "Tine which tends to the abuse
of the Constitution ? And is it wonderful under a of all human institutions, has improved ours. The
vsystem extending through the Commonwealth and bigotryuund persecution are gone--nothing remains
operating on so many thousands? Mr. S. then ar- but the good influence. Never' was there a de:
gued that there had been no oppression, no gener- li nomination of christians less'sectarian, and prose-
al complaine---referred to the small vote for a Con- lyting, 'ind persecuting, than the prevailing denom
, vention as proof that no great evil was pressing on ination in Massachusetts have been under this
the community. But fron the clammor that has since Contitution. I say it with confidence. Sone have
Heen raised, one would suppose we had been strange fears of an establishinew! But what is to
groaning under an inquisition. It is strange low be established ? How is it to be brought about
men are carried away by sounds. What excesses Will the government undertake the work? Have
have been commttted under the name of "iberty, the church accumulated treasures for this purpose ?
what excitement may be produced in a perfectly Have we a body of aspiring ecclesiastics aining at
free country by the cry of Priestcraſt”-“ Law- this object? But how can an establishment be
religion,"and Toleration!” This subject is close- made undera Constitution which declares that “
y interwoven with our history. We ought not to subordination of one sect to another shall ever be
make a Constitution on abstract principles merely. established by law,” except the broad establishment
What arrangements it is expedient to make here, of christianity. And this without interfering with
is a very different question from what it might be the rights äf conscience of any man. The
- in some other States, where a similar provisiop has question may now be; whether a greai moral
never existed. The support of religion has always revolution shall take place in the commonwealth,
ljeen a great care of our government. Massachu-. If this article is struck out, what a shock will it
setts is a religious Commonwealth. But for the give to the moral sentiments and leelings of thoux
devotion of our Fathers to religion, the spot vlière sands--the pious, the moral part of the communi-
We are assembled, might' still have been a wilder- ty, who feel that we have no right to deprive them
ness. It was this that inspired them with courage
of what was designed for the good of postcrity as
to brave the dangers of the ocean, and land on well as our own I stand as in the presence of our
these shores. Their first care was the support of ancestors, they conjure us not to destroy what
public worship. How soon did they lay the foun- they planted with so much care, and under the in-
dation of our venerable University, and a Christo fiuence of which we have so long flourished; but
e Ecclesiçe” was it dedicaļed. As the settlements to transmit to posterity that is only a trustreslate in
extended, the little colonies of families always took us, I stand as in the presence of posterity, calling
with them a minister, as the pastor of the flock, upon us not rashly to abolish what was intended for
and one of the first houses erected was always a their good-their entailed estate, their precious ina
place of worship. To provide religious instruc- heritance. Let us not in one hour destroy the ven-
won was always an important part of the municipal erable work of two.centuries! Above all, on thys
concerns of each town, and the same laws were day,the anniversary of the landing of the Pilgriins-,
unade on the subject of schools and public worship. when two centuries have rolled away, and we by.
Through the whole period of our history, religion | means oftheir principles and their institutions have
add education have gone hand in hand, and united grown up and become a great nation-letus not rejecz
in forming the character of the people. The rem- the great principles of our prosperity-letus not o.
ples of worship and instruction have been side by erthrow all that was dear to liem. This will be a
side. Our religious establishments are part of our poor tribute to their peniory, a pooj fxpression
i
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
was
to
pf our gratitude. No let us bring a better offer- vided that every person shall be classed with somg
inglet us cherish those principles and institutions, religious society. But the proposition of the gen
and transmit them to our children and to children's | tleman from Pittsfield is directly the contrary. I
children to the latest posterity. This will be the declares that no person shall be classed. He was
most durable monument to the memory--the best aware it provided that persons who were no.xv. clas-
memorial of the character of our forefathers. sed should continue until &c. But it was provided
Mr. HAZARD, of Hancock, rose only to ex- for the present-time only. He was willing that
press his sentiments in favor of the resolution.- every one should have a right to declare what so:
He said a spectator hearing these debates would ciety. he would belong to, but every man so long
be led to think that the question was whether any as he lives, in civil society, ought to contribute 19
person should
be suffered to worship God hereaf- the support of that religion, which is at the foun-
ter or not. He considered the question to be, dation of society. , Gentlemen meſerred to the
whether the article proposed by the gentleman establishment of schools. It was not until after the
from Pittsfield, should be substituted for the third establishment aſ religious worship, that conmon
article of the declaration of rights. He hoped the schools were established in this conntry. It was
motion would prevail. As far as his kpowledge not until 1645, twenty-five years afier the settlement
extended,whenever the aid of law had been resort- of the country, that town schools were established
ed to for supporting religious instruction, it bad even in the largest towns. The common schools,
produced great dissentions and difficulty. If he are the children of religion, and religion not the
believed that by retaining the article in the consti- child of towu schools. He hoped that the children
Lution it would make good men he should be in la- would never succeed to destroy their mother.
vor of it. But he thought it would make two hyp- Mr. BASISTER, of Newtsuryport, said the op-
ocrites to one christian.
position to retaining the 3d article rested on two
Mr. SULLIVAN, of Brookline, rose merely to grounds, one in relation to the right, the other to
state a historical fact. He had hoped that the the expediency. And with respect to the expedie
gentleman from Salem, who had almost exhaust- ency, it was urged, in the first place, that incon
ed the subject, would have alluded to the history of veniences arose out of the present system, and in
this particular article. As early as the year 1654, the next that religion would flourish better without
it being found that the support of the clergy was the interference of the civil authority. What were
not suficiently provided for by voluntary contribu- these inconveniences ? Before a good system ac,
ţions, a law was passed authorizing the court of companied with some inconveniences, was ex-
sessions to levy a tax for the purpose, whenever changed. for another, it ought to be shown that the
the people did not voluntarily, inake suitable pro- inconveniences outweighed the general good result:
vision. In 1992 a similar act passed, and in 1703 ing from it. There were cases of hardships under:
another substantially the same. In this last: act, the present system, as had been mentioned by
Quakers and Baptists were excepted from the ob- gentlemen, but they were single cases, and
ligation. In 1760 another act passed recognizing what the character of them? They
the power of the people to support religion in this discovered a spirit of opposition the
way, and the necessity of such a power.. Then I general good-of selfishness-to call it by the
came the Constitution in 1780. The provisions of || gentlest name, of too great tenaciousness of strict
which are substantially the same with the laws be- rights. This objection had been fully answered .
fore mentioned. This emanated from the body of. || by the gentleman from Boston (Mr. Dutton.) . All
the people--the source of all our laws--ihat || general rules are liable to exceptions.
with which we are all indentified. It has been We should consider how extensively the general
our misfortune, to see a state of feeling growing. I principle operated, and how lew were the particu-
out of sectarian prejudices yery bonest in them. lar cases opposed to it. A hundred thousand polls
selves, opposed to this salutary •pripciple of the were taxed for the support of public worship.
Constitution: Those who have these feelings are Was there any comparison to be made between
right to act according to their own conyiction, and the good derived froin this payment of taxes, and
to endeavour to obtain an alteration. But eonsid- the cases of dividual hardship which had taken
ering that the great body of the people were con- place ? Gentlemen had said that religion would
gregationalists, was it to be asked that they should flourish better without the present provision of the
give up what they considered an important princi- constitution. This was taking for granted a thing
ple? He thought the opposition had come not that rmained to be proved. Such an assertion was
from the great body of the people, but from a por- not a sufficient reason for overturning a long estab-
tion adverse in point of principle to the sentiments | lished system. And from whom did this argument
of the great body.
come ? From gentlemen who say they want no aid
Mr. NICHOLS, of South Reading, was supris- || from the civil government, because they can get a
ed at the course the discussion had taken. He | long without it. If that is the case, why then do
should think that the question was whether religious | they who are 50 well off and who are in a minority,
worship should hereafter ever be supported. It | why do they trouble themselves so much about ilie
was not so. He had looked at the proposition of interest of the majority ? Perhaps they feel kind
the gentleman from Pittsfield, and he did not see towards the other part of the community ? be it
that it departed in any degree from the law of 1811. so; but yet they say this article is to build up an
He was satisfied with that law. It was an lionour exclusive seet And this from the mouths of
to the Legislature that passed it. He had seen no those who admit
of another sect
injury from that law.
their communion. But if these gena
Mr. SAVAGE, of Boston, rose only in conșe- tlemen are able to get a sufficient support, it is
quence of the remarks of the gentleman who last not so with all; and they have succeeded, because
spoke. He was in the Legislature when the law religion generally is so well supported in this state;
of 1811 passed, he opposed the passing of that law as was shown by the gentleman from Salem; (Mr:
with all his might. But the evils which be appre- Salionstall) who reterred to the condition of
þended from it had not happened. That law had religion in other states. But grant all that
given perfeét satisfaction, The inconveniences | belongs to their argument; it is begging us to give
which gentlemen have complained of must have the fruits of an experiment of forty,
yes of two,
taken place, before the passing of that lay. It hundred years, with all its known consequences
was because he was satisfied with the law of 1811 for an expcriinent of a day; aud that made by a
ibat he was decidedly opposed to the proposition small scct. As the gentleman from Boston (Mr.
Ithe gentlenian from Pittsfield. That law pro- (Freeman) said,let other states try their experiments i
no one
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1979
He are going on very well. ' If they do better we the purpose, but at the same-time provided the
bart then imitate their example. He thought suf- manner in which any person who chose it could
ficient had been already said to establish the right. exonerate himself from the payment of these taxes,
He thought the doubts on this questioni arose from He has only to call on the committee of some other
gentlenien's considering it too abstractedly. They denomination; or of some othei society of the same
Falked of unalienable rights and rights of con- order, and pay the trifling sum: that they may děin
-science. What do they mean by rights of con- mand-and it is well known that there are religious
science ? They were to conscientious they could. teachers in alniost all parts of our state, who do not
Hot take an oath. What next? They have scru- ask much for preaching, and whớ, of course, will
ples about bearing arms. One gentleman to be furnish a pass for a very small sum, and those who
sure; says they are willing to pay an equivalent to think thic acquisition and preservation of property
be applied to the support of the poor. Next day to be the most important object of life, will adopt:
they will have scruples about paying this equiva- this inode, and think it a valuable saving:, He had.
lent. Tliey will have 'scruples about serving as no objection to paying his proportion of the neces
-jurymen. At this rate what shall we come to ? sary taxes for the support of the ministry, on the
Gentlemen reason, very impracticably if not ab- principle that it was for the public benefit--but lie
šurdly. We must do with religion as wc do with saw no reason why he sliould do more. The prac-j.
other principles: We must make it useful to the tical operation of this article of the Constitutions
common good. Our happiness and the security of had been very unequal, by restricting persons
society are dependalit upon it. Some gentlemen from going to another society of the same order
say, leave religion to heaven; but they do not go with that in which they happen to réside. This
so far as-to say that they will not permit the civil report proposes a remedy; by permitting persons to
power to interfere for the purpose of enforcing remove their connexions from one religious society.
their contracts. It is asked whether we injure re- to another. But there was a very strong objec-
ligion by adopting this resolution. He thought it tion to it; for any person could easily evade the
would be laying the axe to the root of the tree. obligation to contribute their proportion. It is pro-
He did not attribute wrong motives to the gentle. posed, that when any number of persons, not less
men who supported it; but this would be the effect. ihan twebty, shall have associated for the purpose
What would become of our conimon schools if left of maintaining public worship, they shall not be
to voluntary contributions ? of all our other insti- liable to be taxed for the purposé elsewhere
tutions ? He contended that they as well as reli- Tryenty persons thus associatell, who may be at
Egion would all sink if not sustained by the arm of the expense of foar five-dollar serinons per years
civil government. He felt, as the gentleman from which would be a tax of one dollar apón each pera.
Salem did, that we had received a legacy which son, will thus be excused from all other taxes for
we owed it to our ancestors, to our posterity and to the support of public worship. The tax upon these
Ourselves, to transmil unimpaired.
twenty persons, in the parish to which they belong;
The question was taken on the adoption of the may amount to half or two thirds of the whole tax:
tesolution offered by Mr. Childs and 'deteimined of the parish. for the regular support of a public.'
in the negativemi161 to 221.
teacher, and their withdrawing naỹ leave the town
The committee then voted to rise--217 to 45- destitute of the means of regularly sapporting pubes
reported progress and had leave to sit again. lic worship. Now, if these twenty persons were
The house then adjourned.
holden to pay their proportion of the 'sums necesa,
sary for the support of public worship, in such
manner that it should be actually expended for
SATURDAY; Dec. 23. that purpose, by being paid over to some public
The Convention met, and, after the reading of teacher, if not to the minister of the parish, public
the journal,
worship would he maintained in some form or oth
Ploceeded to the second reading of the resolu- er.' If this article could be so amended, as effectus :
tions reported by the Select Committee, on that ally to draw from the community such sums ag.
part of the Conslitution which relates to the Gov: would be competent to remunerate religious teachio
ernor, Militia, &c.
ers for devoting their time, talents and learning to
The resolution providing that the Governor and the work of the ministry, by an equal tax upon all
Council shall appoint Notaries Public, was amend- the ratable polls and property in the several towns
ed, on motion of Mr. Varnym, by inserting the in the Commonwealth, he [Mr. Newhall] would :
words, “who shall hold their offices for seven not raise his voice or hand, against it; and he
jears, unless sooner removed by the Governor and should have no objection, that after the taxes should
Council, upori the address of both houses of the have been paid into the town treasuries, every per:
Legislature," and, so amended, it passed. All the son slioald have a right to draw out the sum paid
other resolutions were severally read, and passed by him; to be paid over to the teacher of any res
without amendment.
ligious denomination whatever. He wished to see
THIRD ARTICLE OF BILL OF RIGHTS.
nothing in the Constitution that looked like giving
any exclusive privilege, or showing any partiality
On motion of Mr. Moses PORTÉR, of Hadley, to any.one denomination. He concluded by offer
the Convention then went into committee of the ing as a substitute for the third and fourth resolu-
whole on the unfinished business of yesterday, it tions of the Select Committee, a proposition so to
being the report of the Select Committee on the amend the Constitution, that towns, parishes, &c.
Declaration of Rights.
shall have power to rake provision for the support :
The third resolution being stated to be under of public worship, by levying taxes for the purpose
bonsideration
upon polls and estates within their jurisdiction-
Mr. NEWHALL, of Lynpfield; hoped the wesolu- that every person so taxed, shall have power to
tion would not pass. He was sorry to differ from designate the religious teacher to wlose benefit
the Committee; and nothing but a sense of duty the amount of bis tax shall be appropriated, pro-
would have induced him to rise on the occasion... vided there is any one whose instruction be usually
It was necessary that there should be pro- attends-and that ihe taxes of those who do not
vision in the Constitution for the support of re: attend on the religious instructions of any one, shall
ligious worship, and the maintenance of the teach- be appropriated to the use of the schools in the
ors of religion. The provision made by this reso- town or society
lution was not sufficient for the purpose. It pro-
Mr. QUINCY wished the mover to state the pre-
vided that towns and parishes should levy taxes for cisc object of his motion, and to point out the diſa
N
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
.
í
ference between the provisions of his resolutioti, Il-ought rather to say tlie lat had leen obeyed.
and those of the third article of the Declaration of did not follow that the law was bad, because there
Rights.
had been no, gross violation of it, the object of
Mr. NEWHALL said it was not essentially dif- laws was to prevent wrong, not to punish, it. The
ferent from the third article. It would remove an silent influence of lau's was a thousand times more
objection which some men nako to paying taxes beneficial than the actual enforcement of obedience
før the support of religious teachers, that they go to them. It was impossible to foresee the opera-:
to birelings, and to support heresý; All agreed in tion of the change proposed.* If we struck out the
the propriety of supporting schools. He saw no word shall, it would amount to saying that we had
reason why all should not pay equally for the sup: not been a häppy and viltuous people. If it vas
port of religion, because it was necessary for soci- true that the happiness of society depended upon
ety and the preservation of government.
the diffusion of religion aud inorality, and if the in-.
Mr. QUINCY said the proposition struck him stitution of public worship, and of public instruc:
agreeably enoughs, except the last part of it:. He tions in religion and morality, was the only means'.
did not see why the taxes paid by those who do not of diffusing them, it would be improper to leave it
attend public worship, should not be applied to the to the discretion of the Legislature to see that suit-
support of religion, just as much as that the taxes able provision was made for effecting the object.
paid hy bachelors, should go to the support of Mr: HUBBARD, of Boston, said this was in his :
sebiools.
vicw a very important question. He was in favor :
Mr. NICHOLS, of South Reading, said that in of substitöting may for shall. He was clearly of o-
á town where there was a settled Congregational | pinion that the community had a right to make
minister, and the dissenters from that religion were laws on the subject of public worship, on thiş prin:
á majority; and of a sect which was opposed to ciple, that what it is the duty of the citizen to per:
supporting public worship, except by voluntary || form, it is proper for the Legislature to, co
compel
contributions, if the dissenters were not alloweu to him to perform. But he preferred the word may.
vote, the minority might say what sum should be because the community have no puwer, no tribu
raised, and if they were allowed to vote; no sum nal; to compel the Legislature to do a particular
would be raised. The settled minister would then act. If the Legislature should do an act which it
lose his salary:
had no right to do, then there was a remedy, be-
Mr. BALDİYIN opposed the amendment. He cause the Supreme Court would determine it to be
said that if all the denominations in a town should uncobstitutional. , The Constitution would have
assenible and vote to raise a certain sum for the just as much forcé, if it were left to tive consciencë
support of the settled minister, and then each of of the Legislature 'to make provision for the sup,
the other denominations should draw out from the port of public worship. The Committee had alo.
sum raised; what belonged to each of them, there ready agreed to leave out the clause in the 3d
inight be too much, or there might be too little; lett Article which says, “the Legislature shall enjoin"
for the settled minister: He did not see the pro- | attendance on public worship” The Legislàiure
priety or expediency of one denomination assessing never carried it into effect and there was no power
taxes for another, and thought that every society to compel them.
had better manage its own concerns.
Mr: LOCKE; of Billerica, interrupted the geng
The question was taken upon the amendment, tlemany to mention that the constirution does not
and determined in the riegative.
say that the Legislature shall enjoin attendance, &e.
The question recurred upon the third resolution. but that the people invest them with authority to
Mr. BALDWIN moved to strike out shall, and enjoin. &c.
insert may so as tų read, that the Legislature тау
MⓇ. HUBBARD said there was the same moral
from time to time require towns, &c. to make suit- obligation on the Legislature to enjoin åttendance up.
able provision, at their own expense, for the sup- on public worship as there was to require suitable
port of public worship. Mr. B. said there was not provision to be made for the support of public,
antown any where; where provision was not made wórship. He denied that our happiness and good
There was, therefore, nợ necessity for saying that morals were owing to the third article ; on the
the Legislature slicill requires &c. It ought to be contrary, that article grew out of our good morals.
left to the discretion of the Legislature, so that if New Hampshire had omitted it in her constitu-
they see a town neglecting to support public wor- tion-Connecticut and Rhode Island had no such
ship, they may then interfere iť they see fit: provision ; and if we were making a new con;
Mr. FOSTÉR, of Littlefon, hoped the amend- stitution, we should leave it out, if the popular
went would not prevail. Some gentlemen would sentiment was against it. No law was
say that shull and may mean the same tſiing; if so, passed until 1800 to enſorcè this provision; so
then let shull remain. If they substitated may, the that it remained for twenty years å dead letter and
Legislature might make it an apology in all cases we were living under the operation of former laws
for neglecting their duty.
on this subject. He said there was nothing inper-
„Mr. SULLIVAN, of Boston, asked if the word ative in the word slrqli, where the Constitution says
ghiall had not been in our. Constitution forty years, it shall be the duty of the Legislature to cherišli
and if all our institutions for public worship had not public schools; because the same phraseology is
grown and flourisheit under it? if so, why should used with respect to their countenancing sincerity,
It be changed?
good budour and the social affections. He : l'e:
Mr.BLISS, of Springfield, said that if gentle-' peated his objection to commanding the Legisla-
üren were satisfied that provision will always be ture, when there is no power to enforce the com-
made voluntarily, they need havė nó fears of the mand. Shalt meant the same as muy, and we
interference of the Legislæture ; for if they would might safely trust to the Legislature to do wba'
attend to the connexion of the sentente; they was pidper.
would perceive that it is only in cases where pro- Mr. PARKEŘ, of Boston, said tliere was an in-
vision is not made voluntarily, that the Legislalure consistency in his colleague in saying that shall and
shall require it to be made. It was the general may meant the same thing and yet wanting one to
sentiment of the Select Committee, and be pre- be substituted for the other in the Constitution:-
sumed of the present committee, that public wor- His Rey. colleague (Mr. Baldwin,) did not under
ship ought to be supported. Our institutions for stand then to, mean the same thing, or he would
that purpose had been owing to this word shall. not have moved the amendment. Mr. H. had ola
Because there had been no gross violation of the ljected to sliall
, because there was no power 101
fæw, should we say the law was unnecessary? We coerce the Legislature, Mr.P. said there was kara
!
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
181
1
tee.
ljà page in the Constitution in which similar phra- mode-for the sake of making tlie proposition sim:
geology did not occur ; and he understood it as an ple. The mode of striking out and inserting, wali
expression of the will of the people to which the apt to cause confusion.
Legislature were bound to conform ; and although Mr. D. DAVIS, of Boston thought that no gen-
there was no tribunal to coerce then, the people tleman could liave a clear and precise idea of the
had it in their power to choose other legislators.- ll effect of the proposition before the coitmittee unti!
He said if the word shall should be struck ont, the it should be printed, that they might liave an oppora
pext Legislature would have their feelings and || tunity of comparing it with the preseột article of
would repeal all the laws for the support of public | the Constitution, with the act of 1811, aiid with the
worship. Mr. H. had said our institutions for the report of the committee. It was a proposition la
support of religion were not ouing to this article. I remedy all the evils complained of under the pres-
He had no authority for the assertion. This arti- ent Constitution, and had never seen the light until
cle had been a long time an important principle within a few minutes. They ought not to be drive
-in our Coustitution, and it was iinpossible to say en to vote on a proposition which they had no better
what effects were owing to its operation.
opportunity to understand. He therefore moved
Mr, TILDEN, of Hanson, thought the amend- that the committee rise.
ment too trivial to occupy the time of the commit- The motion
was negatived.
Mr. WILDE, thought that there was nothing iti
Mr. TILLINGHAST, of Wrenthamı spoke in the resolution before the committee materially dif.
favor of the amendment.
ferent from the 3d resolution of the select commits
Mr. HOAR, of Concord; said the gentleman | tee, and that the mover would better obtaip his ob-
from Boston, (Mr. Hubbard,) had said that iſ lject if instead of making his proposition a substi-
shall was peremptory, it would be of no avail, aš tute for both resolutions, he would so modify it as
there was no power to coerce the Legislature to make it a substitute for the 4th only. Accepting
and that we might trust to the conscience of the thie 3d resolution would be only affirming the vote
Legislature. As the Legislators were required to of last evenios. All the difference between it and
take an oath to support the Constitution, on the the 3d, article appeared to be that it put incorporat-
gentleman's own ground their conscience would ed and unincorporated societies on the same footing.
hot permit them to violate this oath, and therefore Mr. WILLIAMS, then withdrew his resolution
the word shall would have some validity.
reserving the right to move that part of it which
The amendment was negalived_151 to 203. proposed the principal alteration as an amendment
Mr. WILLIAMS, of Beverly, said he bad ad. to the 4th resolution, when that should come una
vocated the proposition offered by the gentlemander consideration,
from Pittsfield. Difficulties had arisen under the Mr. JACKSON, of Boston, thought the time had
3d article. With a view to unite the views of tbe now arrived when the amendment proposed by
Committee, and of their constituents ạt large, he Mr. Saltonstall could be conveniently considered.
liad prepared a Resolution which he would offer as It had been determined not to reject the generat
a substilute for the 34 and 4th resolutions of the principle contained in the third article. He should
Select. Committee Mr. W's resolution container be glad to adopt the amendments proposed. He
the 3d Resolution of ihe Select Committe; except would not let a non-resident withdraw the tax on
that do invest was substituted for have a right to in- his lands for the same reason that taxes for schools
vest; and instead of the 4th, it proposed that erery and highways should not be withdrawn. It was
religious society, incorporated or unincorporated, for the interest of the persons oivning lands that
should have power to raise money for the purpo- public worship should be supported. He wished
ses of the society; in such manner as they should also another amendment that should allow all per:
choose--that every person should be at liberty to sons to withdraw their support from the parish in
knite himself to such society as he pleased, and the which they reside, in favor of another society in
monies paid by him should go to the support of the which they may prefer to attend worship, though
teacher of such society; and that every person of the same denomination
But he was not so
who did not class himself voluntarily, with any so- strenuous for cither as 10 urge them so as to endana
ciety, should be classed with the town, parish or ger the whole article. He wished however that
precinct in which he lived, and be taxed for the the sense of the convention might be taken on
support of public worship in such town, parish or
precmet. Mr. W. said bis object was to allow Mr. SALTONSTAL.L, then moved to amend
freedom to every person to worship where he by substituting for the 3d and 4th resolutions of
pleased, and to permit societies which prefer sup- the select commitee a resolution importing that
porting their teachers by subscription, to adopt || it is not expedient further to amend the third arti-
that mode instead of taxation.
cle of the declaration of rights than by providing
Mr THORNDIKE, of Boston, opposed the res- that the taxės raised upon the real estate of non-
olution, and alluded to local transactions in the resident proprietors, shall be applied towards the
town of Beverly.
support of public worship in the town, precinct or
Mr LOW, of Beverly, iñ answer to Mr. Thoru- || parisli in which such real estate shall be situated,
dike, went into a detail of some individual cases and also to provide that the word " christian
of bárdship in that town.
shall be substituted for “ protestant.
Mr. WARE; of Boston, had no doubt of the Mr. SULLIVAN, of Brookline, wished it to be.
right of the community to make laws on the pres- understood that it had been decided by the high-
ent subject, and as far as he understood the propo- est judicial tribuna that the law of 1811 was not re-
sition of the gentleman from Heverly, lie did not
pugnant to the Constitution.
perceive that it was objectionable
M. BLISS, of Springfield,čiould be in favour of
Mr. QUINCY objected to the form in which the the resolution with one alteration, but as it was,
amendment was brouglit forward. Here was a must oppose it. If it-tveré a new subject he should
long proposition differing only in a sentence or presume that the Supreme Court would give such
two from the resolutions of the Select Comunitiee. à construction to the Constitution, that he should
was difficult in this mode to see in wliat the dif- be satisfied with it without alteration. But that
ference consisted. - Småll amendments should be Court many years ago, composed then of persons
proposed in those parts of the resolutions where who were all members of the Convention which
gentleinen wanted an alteration; tbis was one ob- formed the Constitution, decided that persons must
ject in having the resolutions printed.
be of a different denomination from the parish in
Mr. WILLIAMS replied that he adopted this which they were situated, to éptitle them to trilh.
1
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182
1
MASSACHUSETTS GONVENTION.
sence.
draw their taxes for the support of public worship ble to the same objection with the report of the
in another society to which they might choose to select committee. The situation of the different
unite themselves. He could not see in the Consti- religious societies was extremely various. We
tution the grounds of this decision, but he must pre- might as well attempt to make a garment that would
sume that it was construed rightly. There was a suit all sizes and shapes, as to make a regulation
great variety of opinions among persons of the that would suit the condition of all religious socie-
same denomination which made it impossible for ties. If we agreed to the third article with this
them to worskip together with propriety. If the amendment, we should seem to secure the object
gentleman from Salen would provide a further a- providing for the support of public worship, but.
mendment that should remove the difficulty alluded should defeat it by giving every one leave to give
to, he would agree to it. He proceeded to make their support where they please. He was willing
some remarks on the report of the select committee. that every one should have liberty to worship
Mr.'JACKSON moved to amend the resolution where he pleased, but his money ought to go to the
so that it should read in substance as follows; that town or parish where he lives, and where he en-
it is not expedient further to alter and amend the joys the benefit derived from public religious in.
third article, except to provide that all monies paid struction.
.by the subject for the support of public worship Mr. LINCOLN, of Boston, said he had no per-
and of the public teachers of piety, religion and sonal interest in the question, but he had friends
morality be applied to the public teacheror teachers who had; and he asked if the period had not ar-,
if there be any one whose instructions he attends, rived when people might be allowed to pay their
whether of the same or of a different sect or de- money for the support of the gospel where they
nomination from that of the sect in which the ino- please. He hoped the question would not be ta.
ney is raised; provided however that taxes raised ken without much deliberation.
on the real estate of non resident proprietors shall The question was taken on adopting the amend.
be applied towards the support of public worship
ment and decided in the affirmative 185 to 112.
in the town,precinct or parish in which real estate On motion of Mr. Foster the committee rose
skall be situated; and also to provide that the word 188 to 114, reported progress and had leave to sit
« christian" shall be substituted for the word **
pro- again.
testant."
Messrs. Hall of Medford, Garfield of Tyringham,
Mr. WHITTEMORE, of West Cambridge, said Horton and Flower of West Springfield, Cobb of
this was the most intolerant proposition ever of- Orange, Hodges of Taunton, Mason of Swansey,
fered. A person might reside in a town where and Hyde of New Marlborough had leave of ab-
there was a congregational society, and belong to
a baptist society in the next town. There were Mr. NEWHALL, of Lynnfield moved that
many instances of this kind. Was it right, was it when the convention adjourned they should ad.
just, that a man should pay a tax for every cent of journ to Tuesday next, Monday being Christmas, .
property he has, to support a church he does not Negatived. And thc House adjourned to 9 o'clock
attend, and a kind of doctrine he does not believe ? on Monday morning.
This was tyranny in the first degree
Mr. PARKER said the .gentleman mistook the
proposition. It embraced only the estate of a non
resident proprietor.
MONDAY, Dec. 25.
Mr. TILLINGHAST, of Wrentham, said all his
The Convention met at half past 9 o'clock. The
estate might be in the next town to that in which journal having been read,
he resided, and he might belong to a baptist soci-
Mr. HYDE,of-Lenox,gave notice that he should
ety in which thev did not levy taxes. His whole tomorrow, move, that when the Convention ad.
property would then be taxed to support a reli-
journed it should adjourn to the second Wednesday
gion which he did not wish to support, and he
of February next.
would be depived of the meaus to support his
The Convention proceeded to the first reading of
own religion. He hoped the proposition would
the resolutions reported by the select committee on
Dot be ratified, it would be an act of tyranny,
that part of the constitution relating to oaths, sub-
Mr. QUINCY said that the question before the
scriptions, &c.
committee was the amendment offered by his col-
The first resolution which provides that certain
league (Mr. Jackson.) The gentleman's remarks
oaths shall be taken in lieu of the oaths and declar.
applied to the original proposition.
ations herctofore required having been read,
Mr, WILLIAMS said he found himself in a di-
Mr. TUCKERMAN moved so to amend it as to
lemma he did not expect. He had intended to
require that any person chosen to the office of gove
withdraw only the first part of his resolution, in-
ernor, lieut. governor, or counsellor, or to a seat in
tending to reserve the other part of it as an aménd- the senate or house of representatives, shall after
ment to the fourth resolution,
acceptiug the office or trust and before entering on
Mrs QUINCY said that the gentleman was not
its duties, make and subscribe the following declar-
precluded. He had had the opportunity to ex-
ation. 66 I
do believe in the truth of the
plain all his views, and if the committee approved
Christian religion."
his plan they would not vote for the substitute pro.
Mr. PRINCE, of Boston, moved that the reso-
posed by the gentleman from Salem, and he would lution and amendment should lie on the table, and
have an opportuoity to move his amendment in the e assigned for consideration tomorrow. He said
proper li me.
that alihough he was opposed to the adoption of
Mr.
of
said if he un
any thing like the amendinent proposed, and bad
derstood the amendment, it gave to a subject resi-
already expressed his views fully to that effect, he
ding further from his own meeting house, than
thought that gentlemen ought to have an opportu.
from that of an adjoining parish the right to with-
nity to be heard in support of the amendment. It
draw, for that reason or for any other personal
was now Christmas day, the house was in conse-
convenience, and to take with him the taxes paid quence extremely thin, and those who felt particu-
by him to an adjoining parish, though it night leave larly interested in support of the amendment were
his own parish unable to pay their minister. If
principally absent. There appeared to be a great
this was to be the opevation of it, which he believ- impropriety in taking advantage of the day, and
ed would be, it would leave many small parishes
the absence of those who conscientiously pay a re-
entirely unable to support public worship.
spect to it, to expunge from the constitution a pro-
Mr. FOSTER thought this proposition was lia-
vision which many of those gentlemen considered
1
1
A
MASSACHUSETTS GONVENTION.
183
WO
one of the essential supports of the Christian relig- than one by which changes could be effected toe
jon.
easily. With a view to meet this objection and to
The motion was negatived.
reriove all obstruction on this ground to the adop-
tion of the arrangement relating to the Senate, he
The question on the amendment was then taken was willing to amend the resolution so as to require
and decided in the negative--91 to 126.
only a majority of the Senate, but two thirds of -
The question recurred on the resolution and it the popular branch.
passed to a second reading.
Mr. PHELPS said that he should be satisfied
· The second reslution which provides that Judg.
with an amendment and therefore withdrew his
es of Courts and United States Officers shall not
motion,
hold certain offices &c. was then read.
Mr. WEBSTER then moved to amend the res-
olution in such a manner as to require a majority
Mr. WEBSTER moved to amend by adding af- of the Senators and two thirds of the House of
ter no Judges of any Courts of this Commonwealth
Representatives present and voting thereon.
the words, " except the Courts of Sessions." .
Mr. QUINCY opposed the motion. Our ances.
The amendment was agreed to.
tors in framing the constitution provided for one
Mr. ALVORD, of Greenfield, moved to amend opportunity only to amend it. They wished the
by adding after the provision that Judges of Courts constilution to be steady and thought it better to
of Common Pleas shall hold no other office except leave us to struggle, and let parties struggle, under
that of justice of the peace and militia ofices the constitution, than to permit them to triumph
“ provided however that this amend tent shall over it. If you require the consent of two thirds
not operate to deprive any such judge of any office of the Senate to effect a chavge, that body can pro-
which he now lawfully holds."
tect itself; but under this provision of it should ren-
Mr. WEBSTER thought that if the amendment
der itself unpopular the state of political parties
should operate immediately upon any office inclu-
may be such as to destroy the organization of the
Senate.
ded in it, it ought so to operate on all. He was a-
gainst the amendment.
Mr. AUSTIN, of Boston, liked the proposition
of the committee for effecting amendments. The
Mr. ALVORD said it was a different question provision very properly required that the people
whether a person holding a certain office should should not be put in excitement for any party pur-
be eligible to another, and whether such person
pose. He was sorry to hear the proposition for
shall be deprived of an office of which he is now amendment. It was against the principle of the
lawfully invested. He could not recopcile it with
constitution, by destroying the equality of the two
bis 4
notions of justice that persons who had accept- houses.
ed offices under the Constitution, should be depriv- Mr. WEBSTER said that he felt obliged to
ed of them by the creation of an incompatibility by make this article conform to that relating to the
an alteration of the Constitution,
Senate, otherwise it would be said when
Mr. LAWRENCE, of Groton, Mr. Lincoln of
came to the Senate that we must make that con-
Worcester, Mr. Willard of Fitchburgh, and Mr.
form to this. He wished to have something finish.
Walker of Templeton, spoke against the amend-
ed. He was satisfied with the resolution, as it
was,
ment.
but a general sentiment had been expressed, that
The amendment was negatived.
it ought not to be in the power of any two districts,
Mr.
of -, moved to amend by in-
by combining, to defeat any proposed amendment.
terting among the persons who shall be consider-
It was not a principle of the constitution that the
ed as vacating their offices by acceptiog the trust
two branches are equal. No money bill can ori.
of member of Congress, after Solicitor General,
ginate in the Senate. In Virginia all bills originate
the words “ County Atternies." The amnendment
in the lower house. No objection was made to re-
was agreed to.
quiring two thirds of the house, and he thought
· The second i esolution then passed to a second
that this, with a majority of the Senate, and for two
successive years, taking the yeas and nays, with a
reading.
publication of the amendments proposed, would be
The third resolution providing for future a-,
à sufficient security.
mendments of the Constitution was then read.
Mr. APTHORP was unwilling to have altera.
Mr. PHELPS, of Chester, moved to amend by
tions too easy. He preferred the resolution as re-
striking out the words two hirds,” the propor-
ported.
tion of two successive legislatures who should be
Mr.J.PHILLIPS, of Boston, said Ire understood
required to vote in favor of any specific amend-
that the proposed organization of the Senate and
ment before it shall be submitted to the people for
House of Representatives was on the ground of a
their ratification, and inserting “ majority.'
compromise, in which a larger proportion of power
Mr. WEBSTER, of Boston, was deeidedly op-
in the Senate was given to the sea board, to bal-
ance the undue influence of the inland parts of the
posed to the proposition. If'adopted, the whole Commonwealth in the other branch. He would
constitution would be constantly under amendment,
and every change of party would effect an altera-
therefore propose that in all amendments relating
tion in the constitution. The provision that the
to the Senate, the consent of two thirds of that
proposed amendment should be agreed to by the
body should be required.
Legislatures of two successive years, would fur-
Mr, LINCOLN, af Worcester, said the whole
nish no adequate security. A temporary excite-
power in relation td amendments might as well
ment might influence both, for the whole year
be left to the Senate, as to require the consent of
might in effect be but from the end of one year to
two thirds, If four fifths, or nine tonths of the
the beginning of the next. He had heard an objec-
people should, for two years, be in favor of any
tion to requiring two thirds of both houses, from
amendment, unless the Senate consented, it would
be all in vain.
the particular organization of the Senate, it being
One third of the Senate might be
apprehended by some persons that certain districts
chosen by a little more than one fifth of tbe peo-,
might be so associated as to prevent any amend.
ple, and might prevent the wishes of the other
four fifths. As to the danger of altering the gov-
ment from taking place. He did not see the weight ernment, whese government was it? The people's;
of the argument but
was willing that the resolution
should be so amended, as to meet the objection:-
and when two thirds of the people want an alter-
He would rather have no amendatory provision
alion' they will effect it in some way or other,
It would be safe to require the consent, for two
1
184
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
1
j
years, of only two thirds of the House ; tkey would already been made by the large towns, The ray
bave the rights of the people at heart, more than mark was not correct that the senators' from two.
those who represented property. There was no districts could prevent an amendment from being
cạoger of a popular excitement continuing two croposed to the people; thirteen would be nécessa:
year's, so as to have a bad influence on the frame ry for that purpose. When two thirds of the popa
of government. The proposing amendnients was ular branch were in favor of an amendment, the
not a subject of legislation and there was no need senate would not resist for light reasons. If these
of a check. He was content with this amendment thirteen resisted, he should conclude, that they
of the resolution,,bụt he should have liked better were doing the duty for which they were intended:
to leave the subject to two thirds of the House of The object in requiring two thirds was not to pre:
Representatives alone.
vent necessary amendments, but such as were un.
Mr. SLOCUM spoke in favor of the amendment necessary; to prevent firebrands being ibrown an
as compared with the resolution reported by the mong the people to kindle discord. A great many
select committee. ' Half a loaf was better than no propositions liad been made for amending the con
bread,
stitution of the United States; and had been nega-
M. QUINCY said, that those who maintained tived by the people. But this was done in deliber:
the organization of the Senate were...on popular ative assein blies, in the legislatures of the several
ground, as much as those who defended the popu- states; which was different from submitting the
lar branch. It was for the interest of the people il propositions to town meetings. He would not inti:
to maintain the Senate, The popular branch mate that the people in town meetings would not
would be the all-powerſul ene. According to the determine right, but it would be inconvenient to
compromise, two thirds of a majority of one hall them to be often called upon. 'He thought this
of the people would send two thirds of the H. efl made of submitting amendments to the people, by;
Representatives. It was all important to the bal- (wº thirds of each branch of the legislature, much
ance of the two branches, to require the assent of better than the one proposed by his colleague (Mr.
two lhirds of the Senate. They had been making | Blake). jf calling a new convention.
ä сompronaise, and he was glad to see it; but lie Mr. BLAKE said be did not intend to have a
wished the weakest branch to have the power of convention called, but to prevent any alteration in
protecting itself.
Whenever there sonid he vi
olent parties, they would set the principle of a-
any way for a limited time.
Mr. BANISTER said, that on the principle of
mendment at work. He did not wish to see the
checks and balances, it would be inconsistent to
effect of local interests ; he would rather increase
adopt this amendment, after retaining' valuation as
the number of the Senate. He liked 40 better the basis of the sepate. It was as important to the
than 36; he wishred it might remain ; he liked old
numbers. 'He concluded by moving to postpone
security of the people to protect the senate as the
house of representatives. The object in having the
the subject until tomorrow at 10 o'clock.
small body, was to prevent the effect of popular
Mr. STARKWEATHER hoped the motion to
excitement; and if only a majority of the senate
postpone would not prevail He should have no
was required, this majority would be very apt to be
objection to'a provision for amendnrent similar to
carried away by the same popular excitement
the one in the Constitution. He should have been
which influenced two thirds of the house of repre:
satisfied with the mode reported by the committee; sentatives.
but he thought the amendment under considera-
tion, guarded as it would be by other provisions of
Mr WEBSTER said he could not sit quiet under
the resolution, would be safe.
the charge of inconsistency.' He stated the other
Mr. QUINCY withdrew his motina.
day, or meant to state, that the scnate was not
Mr. HAZARD, of Hancock, was opposed to
intended as a check against the people, but against
both the resolutions and the amendment. If in or-
the house of representatives. He knei no princi-
der, he would move to amend the amendment, so
ple that could prevent a majority, even a bare ma.
as to leave the power to two thirds of the house of ll jority of the people, from altering the constitution.
representatives. The people were the ones to de-
The object of the mode proposed for making a.
termine, whether the constitution should be amend-
mendments in it, was to prevent the people from
ed,
being called upon to make trivial amendments, or
: The PRESIDENT said this was in opposition to
any anendments, except when a real evil existed.
the amendment, and was not in order.
A reason for requiring two thirds of the house and
Mr. BLAKE said this was a very important sub-
only a majority of the senate was, that the general
ject, and he moved to have it postponed. His ob-
sense of the people was better expressed by repre
ject was, to have a notion offered; to let an exper-
sentatives from small districts than from large ones
iment bé tried, for a limited time, say five or ten
This was not an exercise of legislative power-it
years, of the amendments they should make. It
was only referring to some branch the power of
would be a pity, if, after so long a session, they
making propositions to the people. Having a sen-
should not be able to devise something that would
ate to consist of thirty-six members, and twelve of ,
stand the test of at least a few years. The framers
them chosen from two districts, was very different
of the constitution were so desirous of giving it sta-
from liaving fifty senators and chosen from small
.
buity, that they provided that it should not be alter-
districts, in regard to the influcnce of one third..
ed under fifteen years. He sliould bring in a res-
The amendment was adopted, and the resolution,
olution for the purpose of tryiog an experiment of
as amended passed to a second reading.
this kind.
Tomorrow, at 10 o’sloch, was assigned for the
Mr. WEBSTER had no objection to a postpone-
second reading of these several resolutions.
ment; he was, however, satined that this was the Mr. BANISTER was appointed on the com-
only advisable way of making amendments to the mittee for inquiring what business was required to
constitution.
be done and when the convention might have a re-
* Mr. AUSTIN said he never meant to deny that çess, in the room of Mr. Davis, who had left town.
a majority of the people had a right to alter the The résolution of the same standing committee;
constitution, if they had the will; the question was for giving the legislative power to erect and consti- i
only as lo the mode of ascertaining this will » The tnte city governments; as reported by the committee
,
amendment offered was said to be on the ground of the whole with aniendments, was read. The a
that the house of representatives was a better rep. mendments for regulating the returns at elections,
resentation of the people than the senale was ; he and for giving the legislature the right of repealing
objected to that reason, Concession enough had bye-laws of cities, were adopted without debate.
L
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
185
!
M!. VARNUM, of Dracut, objected to the other them in his resolution was, that all the County offi-
amendment, which made it necessary for a town cers, in case the proposition, so far as it respects
to have 10,000 inhabitants before it could be incor- Sheriffs, should be adopted, might be elected on
porated; he said it was desirable to have uniform- the same day, wiienever, according to the terms of
ity in the government of our towns. He therefore their offices, they should bappen to be chosen in
wished to have 30,000 substituted for 10,000. the same year: Mr. V. moved that his resolution
The question was taken fur retaining 10,000 and be committed to a.committee of the whole.
pegatived-83 to 136.
Mr: STARKWEATHER had not bad many
A slight debate ensued, in which Messrs. Ran- minutes to make up his mind on this proposition,
toul, J. Phillips, Starkweather, Jackson, and Pres- but as it was a new subject, and one of not so very
çori took part and various numbers were proposed. great importance, he hoped it would not be com-
The questioil was taken for adopting 12,000, and miled.
decided in the affirmålįve-165 to 84.
Mi. SAVAGE, of Boston, said he had not
The resolution as amended passed to a second brought forward ayy proposition himself for alter-
leading
ing the Constitution, and probably should not; but
The resolution reported by the same select Com- it was the right of every gentleman making such a
mitee, that it is not expedient to make further pro: proposition, to have it considered ; and by refer-
vksion in the Constitution relative to the substitu- ring this proposition to a committee of the whole,
tion of affirnations for oaths, was read.
tlıę gentleman, who last spokę, would have a little
Mr. BALDWIN, of Boston, ohjected to it. He time to make up his mind.
said it went on the supposition, that Quakers were The question to coinmig was négatived_G2 to
tol
born with different conciencies from other men. 136.
There were some pious men who had no objections, Mr. VALENTINE said the motion was of more
to taking an oath ; there were others equally pious consequence than gentlemen might think. At
who had. No wicked man would object to taking present, the Sheriff' is appointed by the Governor.
an oath, and he thought that a solemn affirmation and Council. It was one of the most important
of a good man, made on the presumtion 'that God and lucrative officeşın the state. It was important,&
was present, ought to be suficient.
well in respect to the creditor, as to the debtor.--
M. HINCKLEY, of Northampton, said he had The present mode of appointment gave occasiop to
found no reason to satisfy his mind why Quakers many frauds and impositions, and in times of po-
had been exempted originally from taking oaths; litical animosity was made an engine for party pur-
þui the exemption bad existed for a long time, and poses and for lavoritism. The question was often,
no great inconvenience had arisen from it. He not who was best qualified for the office, but who
explained his views as to the meaning of the New had most friends in the cabinet. Mạch had been
Testament where it commands not to swear, and said about the people's rights. In the present
çiled a passage from the Old Testinent, where case, the people would have a fair opportunity of
God commands to swear by his name. He thought judging of the merits of the different candidates,
it was proper to have the oath in the name of the and of selecting the one best qualified.
Supreme Being. It gave a solemnity to the pro- Mr. WILDE rose to a question of order. He
çeettings in courts of justice, and lie hoped no fur- said he had voted for committing, on the ground
thér alterations. would be made in the Constitu- 'that the gentleman could not discuss his proposi-
tion.
tion in Convention.
Mr WEBSTÉR said that as to oaths in courts À member who voted in the majority on the
of law, the Legislature had already ample powers. question for committing, moved a reconsideration
Gentlemen argued as if nobody had any right, ex- of the vote.
çept the person called upon to swear ; when, in Mr. VARNUM suggested that the gentleman
truth, he was the person who had the least right, from Hopkinton, might accomplish his object with-
The party who called him to testify had the right. out a reconsideration, if he would vary his motion,
A man on trial for his life had a right to the testi- so as to apply to sheliffs only.
mony of a witness under the sanction of an nath ; Mr. VALENTINE said he had no objection.-
there was no security otherwise. If the Rev. gen- He only wanted to have the subject considered,
tleman from Boston, Mr. Baldsvin)had been
Baldsvin) had been which he thought might be done more conven-
much conversant in courts of law, he would have iently in committee, than in Convention. He mod
seen that the greatest scoundrels sometimes pre- ised liis proposition according to Mr. Varnum's
gend to have scruples of conscience in, regard to suggestion.
taking oaths.
Mr. PRESCOTT said this was a proposition,
Some fnrther debate ensued in which Messrs. for making an important alteration in the Consti-
Webster, J. Davis, Baldwin, Austin, Nichols, H. tution and that it ought to he connitted.
Lincoln,and Sprague look part, relating as well The question was taken for committing it to ay
tó oaths of office, as to other oaths; but as the commitiee of the whole, and decided in the affiro
same arguments were brought forward when the mative without a division.
subject was discụssed in cominittee of the whole, The resolution respecting the pecuniary qualific
and were reported in that part of the proceedings, Ications of yoters, with Mr. Blake’s-amendment,
it is unnecessary to repeat them.
that every citizen &c. who is liable to pay, and
Mr. NICHOLS moved, that when the question does pay taxes, may vote for governor &c. as pas.
was taken it should be by yeas and, nays. Nega-
Nega. || sed in committee of the whole, was read.
tįved, only 30 rising in favor of the motion,
Mr. NICHOLS moved to aiñend by striking out
The resolution then passed.
" does pay.”
A motion, to adjourn was nogativéd-93 to 137. Mi WEBSTER said this came to universal suf-
SHERIFFS.
frage. He presumed the intention of the mover
Mr: VALENTINE, of Hopkinton, offered a res- of the original amendment, was
make
olution for providing in the Constitùtion, that Sher- every
person who
voted, participate in
ifts, Registers of Deeds and County Treasurers, the
support of
the
government.
He
shall be closed by a majority of the ballots of the had expected that sono propositions would
legal voters in the several counties, on the have been brought forward, shewing the mode in
day of
which the original amendment could be carried
Mr. VALENTINE said he was aware that. Reg. into effect. He should be content with it, if it
isters of Deeds and County Treasurers were could be shewn to be more convenient than the
plecied in this manner, but his object in including old inode. He sbould object to giving up all pe-
to
now
!
186
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
next.
cuniary qualification, though he might be content fuation shall be completed are before the
with the smallest tas. There was a great differ- Convention and have not been acted on
ence between this and universal suffrage.
On motion of Mr. L Lincoln, the house adj'd.
therein.
That the report of the
the committee
on the subject of Lieut.governor and.council,
TUESDAY, Dec. 26.
is before the Convention and has not been
The Convention met and attended prayers offer-lacted on therein.
ed by the Rev. Mr. Palfrey.
That the resolution respecting the office .
Mr. HYDE, in pursuance of notice, moved that||of Solicitor General, has been referred to the
when the convention adjourns today, it shall ad-|| committee of the whole, but has not been
journ to the second Wednesday of February next.
He stated in support of the motion, that the con-
acted on therein.
vention had been in session six weeks, and from And your committee further respectfully
tie progress of business there was reason to believe || report that in their opinion the public inter-
that several weeks longer would be necessary a flest absolutely requires that the reports of the
that the General Court stood adjourned to the ed
Wednesday of January, and that about seventy committee of the whole respecting the Lieut.
members of the convention were also members of governor and council, and respecting the
the general court, and would wish to return to their Senate and House of Representatives, and
families before the beginning of the session of that also as to the mode of proposing amendments
body-and that an advantage would be gained by to the Constitution, and on the subject of
giving an opportunity to the members of the con-
vention to return to their constituents and learn authorizing the Legislature to grant city powe
their sentiments in regard to the measures which ers in certain cases, should be acted upon
have been under discussion here.
and disposed of before the convention ad-
Mr. VARUM made a few observations upon the journs; and that an adjournment may take
motion, and concluded by moving that it should lie place on Tuesday the second day of January
upon the table to be taken up next week.
The motion was agreed to--166 10 30.
Mr. PRESCOTT, from the commtittee to whom All which is respectfully subinitted.
the subject was referred, submitted the following
By order of the committee.
Report:
Wm. PRESCOTT.
The Committee appointed to inquire what
On motion of Mr. VARNUM, the convention re-
business now before the Convention, or i
sumed the consideration of the resolution relative
Committee, the public interest requires to the pecuniary qualifications of voters. The
should be done and at what time an adjourn- question being stated an the notion to amend by
ment or rising of the Convention may take striking out the words and does pay," so as to ex-
place, have attended to that subject, and now subject to pay taxes :
tend the right of voting to every inhabitant who is
respectfully repot-
Mr. NICHOLS withdrew the motion.
That the report of the select Committee Mr. BLAKE then moved to amend the resolu.
on the subject of the Judiciary Power, and tion so that the right of voting shall be extended 10
the resolution respecting the tenure of judi- dent in the town where he offers his vote for one
every male inhabitant being 21 years of age, resi-
cial offices, have been referred to the com- year, and having paid or been subjeci by law to
mittee of the whole, but have not been acted pay taxes in the said town” with exceptions and
on therein,
provisions in relation to paupers and persons ex-
That the report of the select Committee Menipted from taxation.
Mr. BLAKE ssid that he was not the advocate
on the preamble
to the Constitution and the of universal suffrage That doctrine could not be
Declaration of Rights has been acted on, sustained on any principle. No person who did
but not fiņished in the committee of the not contribute to the support of government was so
whole.
far a party to the social compact as to have a right,
That the report of the select Committee to a voice in the eleetion of the officers of govern-
on the subject of oaths, subscriptions, &c.- ment. But every person whose situation in life
was such that the Legislature could demand of
And on the resolution which respects the him a tax, if it'were nothing but a poll tax, on the
authorizing of the Legislature to grant principle that representation and taxation ought to
city powers in certain cases have pas- go together, ought to be entitled to a vote. Being
sed the first reading in the committee.
subject to a tax he considered equivalent to having
paid a tax. To put the right on the ground of ac-
That the report of the select coinmittee tual payment of a tax, or of having been assessed,
on the subject of the University at Cam- would be to put the right of suffrage in the power
bridge and the encouragement of Literature, of the assessors in a manner wholly inconsisteut
&c. has been acted on in committee of the with the rights of the citizen. He inquired on
whole, but not finished.
what ground of principle any person subject to be
taxcd could be excluded, and proceeded to state
That the report of the committee of the the principles on which other persons, such as mi-
whole on the resolution relating to the pecu- nors, aliens, and females were excluded. In rela-
riiary qualifications of electors is now before tation to the last class of persons he said that the
the Convention.
subjects of the laws were made up of families and
that in all familiesthere were twodepartments. The
That the report of the committee of the l'home department was one in which women have
whole on the subject of the Senate and not only the right of suffrage but the right of sove-
House of Representatives, and on the reso- reign control. He proceeded to state a variety of
Jution providing for the representation of all arguments in support of the principle which he
the classed towns for the years when the val- 'the other principles of the constitution,
had laid down, and to show its consisteney with
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
187
1
Mr. VARNUM agreed with the gentleman who a majority is substituted for two thirds, in relation
last spoke in most of the principles he had ad- to the Senate, He contended that the Senate was
vanced but not in his conclusion. He stated a an independent body, and that it was important that
number of objections to the amendments proposed, it should be kept independent and not liable to le
and his reasons for preferring the resolution as a. carried away by any popular current. He consid-
greed to by the committee of the whole. He did ered the power of the Senate to preserve its inde-
not believe the inconvenience would be so great as pendence,a material part of the balance of the two
was apprehended, or that there was any danger or houses. He supported this position by a variety of
the abuses of power on the part of assessors, which arguments.
gentlemen say they may practice if the resolution is
Mr. WEBSTER repeated the grounds on which
adopted. He objected to that feature of the 2.
he made, the proposition. It occurred to the com-
mendment that required a year's residence in a
mittee that with the experience which we had had
town before acquiring a right to vote.
of the constitution, there was little probability that,
Mr. BLAKE thought that it would not be cor- aftertie amendments which should now be adopted,
rect to extend the right of voting to all persons that there would ever be any occasion for great changes.
might be casually in town at the time of election,
No revision of its general principles would be nec-
But he was willing that the term of residence should
essary,
and the alterations which should be called
be fixed at six months.
for by a change of circumstances, would be limited
Mr. DANA said that there were some persons and specific. It was therefore the opinion of the
who would come to the polls if there was no term
committee that no provision for a revision of the
of previous residence required, who ought to be whole constitution was expedient, and the only
excluded. There are probably a thousand or fif-
question was in what manner it should be provided
en hundred persons who come into the state ey-
that particular amendments might be obtained.-
ory year in March and get employment as labour-
It was a natural course and contornable to analo-
ers, who do not intend to make it their permanent gy and precedent in some degree, that every pro-
residence, and who thercfore ought not to have a
position föt amendment should originate in the
voice in the choice of officers of government.-
legislature under certain guards, and be sent out to
He thought that a year's residence ought to be re-
the people. The question then arose, what guards
quired ; that although it would operate injuriously should be provided. It was thonght proper to pro,
in some few instances the number would be so
vide that an amendment should not be proposed
sunall as not to counterbalance the advantages.--
and sent out to the people under the influence of a
He stated an amendment which he proposed to of- popular excitement. To prevent this they proposed
fer in case that under consideration should not be
to require the repeated assent of the Legislature;
adopted.
and the question, in the mean time, would be in
The question was then taken on Mr. Blake's a-
some measure tried by the people, who would ex-
mendment and negatived.
press their opinions in the next election. This was
Mr. DANA then moved that the renolution one of the guards which they proposed, and anoth:-
should be so amended that the right of voting er was, that the measure should be assented to by
should be extended to every niale citizen of 21 more than a bare majority of the two houses.-
years of age, who has resided in any town of the They agreed to propose that iwo thirds of both
Commonwealth for one year, and who has paid houses should be required. But it had not been
any tax in the Commonwealth for the year next decided at that time in what manner the Senate
preceding the election, or who has not been as- should be constituted. The number of that body
sessed, and ought by law to have been assessed, was afterwads fixed at 36. It had been heard re-
&e.
peatedly in debate that if the Senate is organized
Mr. FOSTER said, that not only taxation and in the manner proposed, and two thirds of the
l'epresentation, but taxation and suffrage ought to Senate are required to assent to any amend-
go together. Young men of 21 years old were sub- ment it would be in the power of less than a
ject to a poll tax and to the obligation of perform- third of the people to prevent any amendment,
ing military duty, which is a heavy tax. He thought It was truc that such would be the effect. Under
they ought to be admitted to the right of voting. these circumstances some of the committee we o of
Mr. APTHORP thought there would be difficul- opinion that satisfaction would be given if two
ties in carrying the provision of the amendment into thirds of the popular branch only were required,
effect. He thought it would be better to let the and a majority of the Senate Would not this fur-
right depend on the fact of having actually paid a nish a reasonable security against unreasonable ala
tax for the current year.
terations? He thought that no great reliance
Mr. LOCKE, of Billerica, moved that the reso- would be to be placed on the additional cheek of
lution and proposed amendment be committed to a two thirds of the Senate. If two thirds of the oth-
select committee.
er branch should repeatedly insist on any particular
Mr. LINCOLN opposed the commitment amendment, the Senate would be obliged to yield
The motion to commit was then agreed to-179 to it. If an attack was made upon the rights of the
to 115-and
Senate there was no reason to suppose that a ma-
Messrs. Dana, Locke, Apthorp, Varnum and Le- jority of that body would consent to sacrifice them.
land were appointed.
Mr. SALTONSTALL was opposed to the res.
The Convention then proceeded to the order of olution as amended, and stated the grounds of his
the day-it being the second reading of the several dissatisfaction at some length.
resolutions,read the first time in convention yester- Mr. HOYT was in favor of the amendment, if
day.
the number of the Senate was to be fixed at thirty
The first resolution, substituting an oath of al- six. If the number were insreased to forty he
legiance and an oath of office, for the waths, sub- should be opposed to the amendment.
scriptions and declarations required by the consti- Mr. APTHORP had serious objections to the
tution, was read and passed.
amendment when mt was proposed yesterday, and
The second resolution declaring the incompati- | those objections had not been removed, but on the
bility of offices, was also read a second time as a- .contrary had been strengthened in his mind by re-
mended, and passed.
flection. He thought that the Senate would be com-
The third resolution providing for future amend- posed of men as intelligeat and as murs disposed
ments of the constitution was read as amended. to consult the will of the people as the otner branch
Mr. QUINCY opposed the resolution, because of the legislature. He proceeded to state his rea-
he was not satisfied with the amendmont by which SORS against the resolution as amended
1
183
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
S
Mr. VARNUM considered the constitution's reasons by which be might satisfy his constituents
the work of the people, and ought to be subject 10 of the propriety of the mcasures they had been
alteration by the people. He agreed that the Sen- adopting He hoped the committee would be
nie shoul i be put on an equal footing with the more successful.
House of Representatives; but he would do it by Mr. SAVAGE and Mr. BLAKE spoke in favor
bringing the House to the Senate, and not the Sen- of the motion, and it was agreed to. It was one
ate to the Honse. But if he could not obtain all dered that the cominitree consist of frè.
the improvement that he wislied, he would take as Mr. HYDE of Lenox offered as a substitute
niuch as he could get. It was with this view that for the Bd and 4th resolutions of the Select Bom-
ho voted for the resolution yesterday. He quoted mittee in relation to religious worship, a resolutios
a part of the Bill of Rights which it had not been declaring the natural and walienable right of eve
proposed to change, to show that in the view of the
ry individual to worship God according to the dica
framers of the constitution, all the rights of self tates of his conscience, the right of opinions and
government were vested in the people, and by the sentiments, and the right of religious societies in:
people was meant a majority of the people. He corporated and unincorporated to elect their
argucd that there was an inconsistency in admit- teachers. The resolution does not propose aný.
the right of the people to establish government, and legal provision for the support of public worship.
excluding them from acting on an amendment or The resolution was committed to the committee
change of the constitution by such an obstruction of the whole, who have that subject under consid-
as had been proposed.
eration. A motion to print it was negatived--115
Mr. FAY was opposed to facilities in amending to 158.
the Constitution, and had been in favor of a pro- Leave of absence was granted to Messrs. Bloss
vision that should limit the right of offering amend- 1 of Cheshire, Stebbins of Granville; Crane of
ments to certain periods, in preference to having Northborough, Marcy of Greenwich, Hapgood of
it open at all times. He had been discouraged | Petershan, arid March of Salisbury.
from offering the proposition; but he was extreme- Leave was refised to Messrs. Stowell of Peru,
ly sorry to hear the inotion for the amendment of Barnard, Folger, Mitchell aud Burull of Nantuck
the proposition of the Select Committee. The ct, Messrs. Lyman of Goshen, and Hazard of Han
gentleman who moved the amendment bad said cock;
that if the Senate had consisted of a larger num- It was ordered that two persons should be added
ber he should not have been in favor of the amend
to the committee on leave of absence. Dr. Warreii
ment. Mr. F. was in favor of enlarging the Sen- of Boston, and Dr. Starkiveather of Worthington
ate, and with a view that this question might be were added.
first acted on,he moved that the resolution now be- Mr. HINCKLEY, of Northampton, offered a re,
fore the Convention he laid on the table:
solution proposing to amend the constitution, by
Mr. LINCOLN was opposed to the postpone: || adding an article in the declaration of rights, that
ment, and stated his reasons at some length. ro person shall be subjected to trial for any offence
The motion to lay on the table was negatived. which would subject him to ignominious punisht,
Mr. PARKER, of Charlestown, moved to a- ment, excepton presentment of a grand jury of the
mend by inserting after “a majority of qualified county in which the case is tried, except in cases
voters" The words "voting thereon." The anend- to which law.martial may be properly applicable!
bient was agreed to.
He stated his reasons for offering the resolution.
Mr. PICKMAN in reply to the remarks of the Committed to the committee of the whole on the
gentleman from Dracut; said he did not consider Declaration of Rights.
it a question whać power should be vested in the It was ordered that when the house adjourned
people, but what should be vested in the legisla- | they adjourn to half past 3 o'clock this afternoon.
He agreed that the people are the sove- Adjourned:
reigas of the country, and that a majority must con- Mr. PHELPS, of Chester, offered a resolution
trol the will of the peopie. But the question now proposing to add another article to the Declara-
was, what powers should be given to the legislature. tion of Rights, that no man or class of men shall e-
He was opposed to give the power of proposing a- ver be deprived of the right of being elected to of-
mendinents to two thirds of the House and a fice or be exempted from taxation, on account of
jority of the Senate. He should be contenied to any lawful profession or calling, provided however,
take tliree fifths of the Sinate.
that the Legislalure may exempt from taxation
The question was then taken on the resolution Ministers of the Gospel whose estate does not ex..
and it passed.
ceed $1000 per annum.
The resolution providing that the legislature shall Referred to the committe of the whole on the
bave power to grant charters of incorporation to Declaration of Rights:=-89 10 84.
towns of more than 12,000 inhabitants was then Mr: HOAR, of Concord; offered two l'esolu:
read and passed.
tions which he designed for a substilute to the 3d
Mr. FISHER, of Westborough, rose to make a and 4th resolutions reported by the selecť commit-
motion. He recollected that the Convention of tee on the Declaration of Rights. The 1st resolution
1780 when they had made aboat the same pro- was, that it is expedient to substitute - Christian"
-gress as had now been made by this Convention for
és
Protestant in thie 3d article of the Declars;
thought proper to choose a committee to form ap tion of Rights. The 2d resolution was, that it was
address to the people stating the reasons of the inexpedient 10 make any further alteration in the
Convention in Tavor of the Constitution. We had 3d article, than what is already made and is pro-
not been so fortunate as to be unanimous on all
posed to be made by the first resolution.
the amendments that had been agreed to, and he Referred to the same committee of the whole;
thought it would be likely to have a farorablc ef- 144 to 47.
fect in reconciling the people to the amendments
that should be proposed, if the sense course
THIRD ARTICLE OF THE DECLARATION
were
now adopted. He therefore moved that a com-
OF RIGHTS.
mittee he appointed to prepare an address to the The house went into committee of the whole upó
people to accompany llie amendments that should on the report of the select committre upon the pre-
be subinitted for their ratification or rejection. amble and declaratiou of rights ; Mr. Varnum in
Mr. FOSTER opposed the motion.
the chair.
Mr. SLOCUM was in favour of it. He had The question was upon the 'amendment, as a.
been trying for a week past to conjure up some mended on Saturday, offered by Mir Saltonstal} as
ture.
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION
189
was with
و
à substitute for the 3d and 4th resolutions of the se- cation were necessary as to the manner of making
lect committee on the Declaration of Rights. this provision. He should have no objection bin-
Mr. L. LINCOLN, of Worcester, said it baci been self ' lo several modifications; so it
his misfortune or his fault, he would not decide other gentienien ; but there was so little har-
whiclı, to be absent, the three days in which the mony allong them, as to any one
to any one particular
present subject had been under discussion. He modification, that it would be difficult to come
should not say inach on the merits of the present to any satisfactory result.. And he believed
proposition in a religious point of view, but should the 3d article might well remain as it is, since the
nake some remarks upon it as mvolving a ques. Legislature had the power 19 make all the modifi-
tion of property more suitable for the consideration cations which had been proposed. The existing
of the civilian than the divine. The proposition laws have made the provisions required, and they
contained a provision for toixing the lands of non- have been sanctioned by a judicial decision, which
resident owners for the support of the clergymen || makes it satisfactory. It was improper to encum.
of the society which happened to be the first in any ber the Constitution with the details of legislation,
town. Against this as a civilian he dissented. He He thought the resolutions of the gentleman from
was in favor of supporting religion, and as the fa- Concord, were previous in their nature, and ought
her of a family, if he were reduced to the alterna- to be taken up before the resolations of other gen-
tive, he would prefer tliat his children should have tlenien.
the moral and religicus instruction of Sunday ra- Mr. BALDWIN, of Boston, spoke against the
lier than tlie literary instruction of the other six notion:
days of the week. Man was a religious animal, The committee voted to take up Mr.Hoar's res-
and would fix upon one. object or on another for olutions--180 to 175.
liis adoration. Whether it was better to support The resolutions were read.
eligion by the civil government was a question Mr. WARE, of Boston, inquired, whether it
for others to decide. He would proceey to exam- was necessary to vole upon botla resolutions 10-
ine what influence the present proposition would gether.
have in a civil view. Persons would be taxed in The CHAIRMAN thought the question was not
consequence of it for the support of a religion | divisible.
which they disapproved. This was a tyranny Mr. WEBSTER suggested, that although the
pyhich no freeman ought to endure. The proposi- ! question for striking out and inserting was indı-
tion was to give the taxes of lands of non-resi- visible, yet, as it was proposed to insert two reso-
dents for the support of the uninister of the first so- lutions, the question was divisible, as to the matter
ciety in any town, althougla contrary to the wishes to be substituted.
of a majority of the corporators of such town.- Mr. TAFI inquired what would be the effect
tornierly the bounds of towns and parishes were of adopting this amendment.
coextensive. Suppose a town and parish of this Thc CHAIRMAN said it would do away all
kind to bave been founded 100 years ago, when all
further questious on the 3d article.
ihe indzizbitants wliere of one denomination. It MC MORTON objected to the course of pro-
was a corporate duty of such on to support reli, ceeding. He thought the 3d resolution only was
gion, just as it was to support the poor or maintaia before the conmitiee. No man could move to
the bighways. Since the incorporation, various strike out two resolutions. He had been waiting
other denominations spring up and far exceed in .for an opportunity of giving his opinion on the resa
number the members of the original society ; yet olutions of the committee. The question was up.
the effect of iliis proposition will be,, that thie tax- on the 3d resolution, and if any part of it was to bt
as of the non-residenis will go entirely to the sup- ! amended, let the amendment he put in, when the
port of the old parish minister alone. A society resolution is read.
might exist hy these taxes, when it was obsolete Mr. APTHORP said it was perfectly in order
for every other purpose. In a town near to Wor- to move to strike out both and insert a substitute.
cester, the teacher was hall supported by these tax- The CHAIRMAN wished the committee to dem
es, while his religious principles were totally ab-termine as to the divisibility of the question. The
horrent to those of the inajority of the inhabitants committee determined that it was not divisible.
of the town.
Mr. L. had no proposition of liis Mr. TILLINGHAST loped the committee
On! to bring forward, but his object was to show would not preclude themselves from making other
the monstrous impropriety and absurdity of this a- alterations in the 3d article, and from considering
mendment.
the resolutions of the committee, by accepting this
The question was taken on thie amendment and I amendment.
deiermined in the negative--15 10 226.
Mr. HOAR olyserved that the object of the first
Mr. PARKER, of Boston, moved that the com- resolution forsubstituting Christian" for“ Protes-
mittee should proceed to the consideration of the fant' in the 3d article, was..ovviously to let in the
resolutions offered by Mr. Hoar as a substitute for
the
3d and 4th resolutions of the select committees Roman Catholica io all the privileges enjoyed by otha
denominations. The object of the other was é-
Mr. WILLIAMS, of Beverly, objected to the qually plain. It was simply declaring that it is in-
motion, on the ground that his proposition ought to expedient to make further alterations in the 3 ar.
have the pricrity.
ticle. The gentleman from Dorchester had cer-
Mr. BLAKE wished, if it was possible, that the ) tainly liad an opportunity of considering, at largę
resolutions of the committee might be acted upon the 3d resolution, when any of the substitutes had
on their merits, without being buried up by the been proposed. The adoption of the second of theke
great number clamendments continually offered. resolutions will declare that the provisions in tbe
Aş a circumstance in favor sf this course, le stat- constitution, are to be preferred to those which
od that that cominittee had sat longer than any 3- have been, or might be brought forward. Those
ther of the select comittees and lad devoted a gentlemen who liaye, projects for alteration, which
girat deal of attention to this subject...
they think will be attended with great advantages,
Mr. WILDE supported the notion to take ip and which they think may be adopted by the coin-
Mr. Hoar's resolutions in order to procure the mittee, would of course vote against him. So, as to
sense of the house, whether it was necessary, to the proposition of the gentlenian from Beverly; if
make
any further alterations in tlie 3r article. His gentlemen think it proper to nake 100 or 500 soci-
view was this ; that the cominittee having setted eties, they would vote against himn. Those who
that it was proper to provide for the support of re- think it expedieat to make these itinumerable cons
ligion, it only remained to see whether any modifi- stit onal corporations, in preferenca io legisla-
25
190
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
1
4
tive corporations, would yote against him. On the Mr. BLAKE said that from the course whici
contrary,those who had devoted a great deal of time had been pursued, it was probable there was a
to the subject, and had made up their minds, that majority of members in favor of the amendment.
nothing better than the 3d article can be obtained, He had already given his opinion of having a sub- .
would vote for him.
ject discu sed till unanimity was produced. If
Mr. LINCOLN, of Boston, said he saw no dif- there should be but a majority of 60 on this ques.
ference between the effect of this; supposing the tión, he should not wonder if the people rejected
law of 1811 to be repealed, , and the effect of the the proposition' with disdain. The select commit.
proposition of the gentleman from Salem, (Mr. tee were of opinion, that the general principles of
Saltonstall.) He thought. if this proposition was the 3d article ought to be retained. Their object
adopted, we should leave our dearest rights, the was to reconcile the two great purposes of securi-
rights of consciente, in the power of the legislature ; || ty of public worship, and liberty of conscience.-
he hoped tbiš would not be done. The time would It was a question, whether the subject of serving
come, when this system of the constitution would the Almighty God should not have a pre-eminent
be repealed. It had been already repealed,in con-|| place in the constitution. While some thought it
sequence of the liberal act of 1811 but that law
should noi, he uniformly maintained the contrary
might be repealed, though he should consider the opinion. He was unwilling to leave any thing, on
repeal, as an infringement on the rights and liber- the subject of conscience and religious freedom to
ties of conscience. What were the liberties of the Legislature. He was not altogether satisfied
conscience? The liberty to attend public worship with the report of the select committee-erasions
there we pleased and pay what teacher we pleased. miġht be practiced under it; but he did not despair
He did not consider it liberty of conscience to pay that that enlightened house might add some pro-
as the dissenters do in England. If this proposi-
visions which would be satisfactory. When the
ţion was adopted, our property might be taken proposition of the gentleman from Pittsfield was
from us to support a jeligion which we deemed before the committee, he did not hesitate to reject
ruinous to mankind. He hoped before the ques- it; the object of it was to expunge the 3d article:
tion was taken, every line of the 3d resolution of Another proposition had been made by the gentle-
the committee would be thoroughly considered; in man from Beverly. This was better than the
pro-
connection with the proposition of the 'gentleman position of the gentleman from Pittsfield, but this
would weaken and destroy the effects of the 3d ar-
Mr. PRESCOTT said they were either to make ticle. He would not give up that article on any au:-
ăn unalterable law for posterity, or å law which count. It wonld be better for them to have a mille
should be left to posterity to aniend. He prefer- stone hung round their necks, and be cast into the
red the last course. He was in favor of the motion deep, than to give up the 3d article He did hea
of the gentleman from Concord. They had struck lieve; that the proposition of the 'select committee
out of the constitution a part that was nugatory, might be modified, so as to give full security for
ånd the alteration proposed by the first of these the support of public worship, and for liberty of
resolutions was a small one; but some gentlemen conscience:
wanted to strike out the whole of the rest of the 3d Mr. J. PHILLIPS of Boston, said he was in fa-
årticle. There ivas no end of projects. The ques- võr of the proposition of the gentleman from Con.
tion was, whether they should provide materially, cord. He considered it as in the nature of a mo-
or whether they should leave the power to the lega. tion for an indefinite postponement. He said that
islature to makė sücli provisions as circumstances for forty years no great evils had existed under the
may require. There was no difference of opinion 3d article, was evident from the little excitement
as to the propriétý, of supporting religion. The with respect to calling the Convention; and as
only question was, how it should be supported. — 1 there was so much discordancy in opinións, it was
The constitution provides that the expense of sup- well to remember the adage, when you know not
porting religion shall be paid, and any person has a what to do, take care not to do you know not wható
right to attend on the instructions of any teacher; He hoped they should not resemble the man who
his taxes to his ise. A further pro- kad the epitaph on his toimbstone, ". I was well : I
vision has been made by the Legislature,
and the pould be better, and here I am:
law has been détermined by the Supreme Court to Mr. LEONARD; of Sturbridge, did not agree
be constitationa). These provisions include all that the Constitution was ambiguous, though it
cases. People may go from one teacher to another may noï have carried into ëffect the intention of
whether of the same őr of a different denomination, its främers. He thoðght the 3d article, together
and carry their taxes with then.' He did not mean with the law of 1811, did not afford a shield for the
to say that this was right, to desert their old min- ll rights of consciènce. He was glad to hear that
jater, who had spent his best days is giving them the time was come for religious freedom. In an
instruction ; he only said they might do it. Furth- élection sermón a hundred years ago, to sanction
er, instead of having a preacher every Sunday, an untruth by toleration, was viewed as an attenipć
they may have one once a month. What do they to batter the Almighty from his chair. Toleration
want more? The present laws provide for all ex- had advanced greatly within the last forty years.
isting cases, and yet the convention is called upon He asket, whal was the difference
between a man's
to make laws for all posterity. They couid not supporting any heresy; and supporting the one he
know what inconveniences may arise in future.- does not wish to support.. He held it indispensable
And, he asked; why was not the legislature to be that the people should be directed in virtue, but
trusted ? A proposition for the repeal of the law of the founder of our religion did not command us to
-1811 must go throaigh both branches--both branch- give up unalienable rights. He would not say that
es must feel the evil of it before it could be repeal- the language of the 3d article was Machiavelsang
ed. The legislature would know better than they but he wonld say it was ambiguous, and he wanted
could, what inconveniences may arise.
it made intelligible.
Mr. LOW of Beverly; said if they did enjoy so Mr. HOLMES, of Rochester, said that before
much liberty as the gentleman had sta: d; b. was the statute of 1811 the construction of the constitu-
content. But he wished to know why W.; could
:.
tion was stich, that no person'could draw out of
not hold this liberty under the constitution, as well the treasury of any society the taxes paid by a
äs hold other rights under it.
member of another society, unless that society was
Mr. PRESCOTT replied hat they did hold 'it fincorporated. The Quakers, who were a fortictha
ùnder the Constitution, in the same manner as part of the people of the Commonwealth, were lia-
they did property. In both cases the Legislature
In both cases the Legislature | ble to pay taxes in the Congregational parishes
She the power of making regulations.
where they'resided, and were besides obliged to
1
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
191
)
1
But if' gen.
है Y
support their qun teachers. It was the same with low christians. He said that the law of 1811 furg.
uniacorporated societies of all other denominations. ished a security for all that he wanted, but he kney.
This incapacity of unincorporated societies to claim that atiempts had been made to repeal it. He was
the taxes paid by their members was removed by sensible that it gave, general relief. He did not
the law of 1811. But that law may be repealed. know of any instance of injustice since.
It was said that we were safe in ihe hands of the Mr. LINCOLN, of Boston, begged the indul.
legislature. He considered it a correct maxim gence of the committee for a single moment only.
that the argument that proves too much proves He had before stated explicitly that he had no per:
nothing at all. If the argument was good, no con- sonal interest in the question. "He only wished that
stitution was necessary.
persons in the country might have the same advan-
Mr. STOWELL,of Peru, rose only to reply to a tages that he had in town. He had not known
remark of the gentlenian last speaking, Fle said that personally of many inconveniences.
before the law of 1811, the Quakers and persons of | tlemen would appeal to the records of the
other denominations were liable to be taxed and courts of justice and of the legislature, it
could not get their money for the support of their would be found that great inconveniences had
own teachers. That was not the operation of the arisen. He respected the openness and frankness
article. He understood that those who provided of the gentleman from Concord who moved the
for the support of public worship in other ways resolutions He was entitled to much commenda:
were not taxed at all, and consequently no provis- tion for his frankness. He admitted that the lawy
jon was necessary for drawing money from the town of 1811 might be repealed, and hoped that it
and parish treasuries.
wouid be repealed or at least thought that the
Mr. BALDWIN, of Boston, was anxious to law.was a very bad one.' He (Mr. L.) hoped
make a few remarks. He had kept his cars open that the inference would not be drawn from any
during the debate and had listened with all the at- thing which he had said that he was unfriendly to
tention in his power. He had heard on one hand the interests of religion. He considered the proso
many complaints of oppression from the operation perity of the commonwealth inseparably connected
of the third article, and on the other side gentle- with it. He was disposed to treat with contempt
men had attempted to wink them out of sight, and a parsimonious disposition towards the ministers
to represent them as incidental inconveniences to of the gospel, They were the most important class
which every institution is liable. "He believed that of men, and those who give liberal support to them
these incidental
, inconveniences had always been ip | most directly consult their own lappiness and that
favor of the predominant sect. He thought it was of the community." But, he preferred calling on
the opinion of the convention that provision should the better feelings of men to resorting to the aid
be made that every man should nave a right to wor- of the law. He was pained to hear the mainte-
ship where he pleased, and to not pay where he did nance of religious worship compared with the sup-
not worship. But this right was not secured He port of public highways; it encouraged a parsimo-
had heard the other evening with great pleasure, nious spirit to send a tax bill for the support of
the eloquent'argument of the gentleman fron Sa highways and one at the same time for the support
lem, on the excellence of religion, hụt he wasted af religion. A vulgar comparison of this sort ten,
his arrows in the air. Every body agreed with him ded to prevent men from giving a liberal support ,
ip respect to the value and importance of religion. to their religious, tqachers. It had long been his
The question was, how religion could be best syp. 1 opinion that there had been no great cause of com,
ported. He alluded to the remarks of his reverend plaint under the law of 1811. He wished- it was
colleague the other day--he had known him thirty | incorporated in the constitution, that it might be
years, and had always respecued his learning and permanent. He proceeded to make some remarks
talents. But he confessed he did not know what on the proposition of the gentleman from Beverly
denomination, he belonged to. He said that he was and to explain its operation, which he thought.
half a quaker, but he had not heard him raise his would meet the object which the gentleman must
voice against the obligation to bear arms, and he have in view of giving every liberty to a free ex-
suspected that he had overrated his quaker senti- ercise of conscieuce, and all necessary support to,
ments. He, Mr.B.wasın favor of the resolutions pro- religious worship.
posed by the gentleman from Beverly. He was willing Mr. LOW, of Beverly, wished gentlenen would
that parishes should have power to tax all persons remember that Boston was called the cradle of lib-
within their limits who are not enrolled in any oth- erty and he hoped it might still be called so.
er society ; but he could not agree to the resolu- Mr. SALTONSTALL said as the gentleman,
tion to restore the old regulation. He reminded had alluded to the resolutions of the gentleman
gentlemen of the days of Solomon, a period of un- from Bererly, he could not suffer the question to
usual prosperity-wlien his son came to the throne be taken without a few remarks in reply. The
the people came to solicit relief from their burdens. first of those résolutions will go agtually to incor-
The young king, took the advice of the old men, porate in six lines all the religious societies in the
who recommended to him to ease the burdens of commonwealthi, It gives them all the power to
his people-but the young men advised him to the raise monies in any way they choose, to support
contrary. He Tollowed the injudicious advice of public warship, to erectchurches, to support teach-
the young men and what was the result.? The er's, and for other purposes. Gentlemen do not
ten tribes revolted, and never returned to their al- wish for the aid of law, but in this indirect way
legiance. He referred to the origin of the Ameri- they would wakë all their societies legal corporate
çan revolution for an example of the ill consequen- towns. The gentleman from Boston had said that
ces of not listening to the well founded complaints the cases of inconvenience complained of were
of the people. He referred also to the recent exo winked out of sight. Tenor fifteen cases had been
ample of Connecticut. Year after year the Episco- | named for the last forty years ; none of them by
palians and other sects, came up and said ease the confession of that gentleman within the last ten
something of our burdens. The request was con- years. Haw were they winked out of sight! They
stantly refused. The result bas been such a revol- were allowed all their due weight, But they were.
ution that all are set at liberty. There are few fewer beyond comparison than might have been
towns in the Commonwealth in which the new so- expected. They were the grievances that had
cieties formed are equal to the original parish.- arisen in the commonwealth for forty years, while
The regulation therefore does not operate equally. the district of Maine was a part of the commone
He was willing that all who do not belong to other wealth, in the operation of this article upon nearly
societies should be taxed in the regular parish. a million of people. Under what part of the con
But lie wished to be on the same lepel with his fel- 'Istitution trad fewer abuses arisen ?" Elections were
192
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
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=
=
required to be holden on ihe first Monday of April, ished business of yesterday, Mr. Varnum in the
and all persons with certain gialifications irere en- clair.
titled to vote. But niany abuses had proceeded The resolutions proposed yesterday by Mr. Hoar
from the exercise of this right---many law suits had being reall.
arisen. But shonld ve say for that reason that Mr. WILLIAMS, of Beverly, said he presumed
the anual elections should be abolished ? It was it would be in order to bring the resolution whichi
said that the hird cases were all on one side. He he had submitted so far into consideration as 10
might have related cases known to gentlemen who contrast them with the third article with the re
had taken part in the debate, in which thirty, or port
of the select committee and with the resolu.
forty persons had gone off from regular parishes tions now under consideration..
and come back with certificates wluch cost lui Mr. LAWRENCE said, that that the gentle.
twenty-five cents each, which excused their from man seemed to think that the course which had
the payment of their parish taxes The constitui- been taken in entering on the consideration of the
tion as it is, secures perfectly the rights of con- resolution now before the committee, before that
science. How is it possible for the legislature to which he had submitted, deprived him and his
provide for the support of public vorship, and have friends of an advantage in the discussion whichi
no power to make laws for carrying the provision they were entitled to. Heihere:fore, having roteid
into effect,
in the majority on the question for taking into con
Mr. WILDE, l'ose (amidst confused and impor. | sideration the resolution of the gentleman from
tunate cries for the question) to call the attantinn Corcord, mored lo reconsider the role.
of the committee to the precise question. It liaci Mr. HOAR acceded to the motion. He should
not been clearly stated and fully explained. llie be exceedingly willing to prevent or impede tha
question was, whicther we should substantiaily in- full discussion of any project which should have forg
corporate into the Constitution the law of 1811.. its chject the rendering the operation of the 3d
It had been stated by almost every 'gentleman who article less objectionable.
had spoken on the subject that it provided amply ír, DWIGHT, of Springfield, hoped the mo-
and fully for ail the inconveniencas which had aris: tion would not prevail. Traving gone fully into the
en under the Coustitution. The reason why it | discussion, and gentiémen having had an opportit-
should stand on the footing of a law, (was, that if nity is a great nicasure to make up their minds on
incorporated into the Constitucion), so that it could the question, and being preseed for time, he loop-
not be altered or modified it would lead in aljuses. ed it would he considered that other gentlenen
What would there be to prevent fwynty profligate have rights as well as those who press these d-
men with a contempt for religion, from coming to- mendments.
gether under the form and name of a religious Mr. FLINT hoped the rote would not be recon-
society for the purpose of erading their obligation siriered but wished the gentleman from Beverly
20 support religious worship? Was it right to re- might be indulged in a comparison of his own mo-
strain the Legislature for all future ages from inak- tion with that before the coinmittee.
ing-such modifications of the law as abuses under it The notizn for reconsideration were agreed to,
night show to be proper? It was noi to be supposed 132 10 91.
that any alteration would be made, unless on account The 3d resolution of the sciect committee thicn
of abuses that might arise.
came again onder consideration.
Mr. MARTIN, rose and was interrupted for Mr. WILLIAMS observed tliat the committee
some time by impacient calls for the question. He had inscried the worøs incorporatcd or unincorpo:
spoke however for some time agamse ile resolution rated ; had substituted die word Christian for Pro-
but we were not fortunate enough to catch he course testant, and had struck out that part which gave
of his argument.
to the Legislatie power to enjoin aliendance on
Mr. WEBSTER, nored that the committee public worship, and he would now give his rea-
should rise and report progress. The motion vas sons in favour of the article, so aniended.---
negatived.
He agreed with gentlemen who were for retain-
Mr. WILLIAMS, of Beverly, obtained the floor. ing the article in all weir meal for the support of
He presumed he had a right to address the counit- religious worship. He wislied, as well as they in
tee on this occasion, and that the right would not preserve religion for posterity, but he wished in
be denied him. Belore he proceeded on his argu- iransmit it to thein, without shackles, and williout
ment, he gave way to z renewal of the motion ly £7Decessary freedom. He approved of the injurie
Mr. Webster that the committee slould rise. The irion contained in the article for the support of puh.
motion was agreed to 196 to 141. 'The Chairman lic worship He should, it was true, prefer to
reported progress and the committee had leave 10 strike oui i few words, but since this was plot pos-
siligain.
sible, he was willing in take it as it is, and lioped
At seven o'clock the convention adjourned. it rould prevail,
Te questions on the adoption of the '3d resolu-
tion was then taken, and riecided in the allirma-
WEDNESDAY, Dec. 27. tire-2001054.
Ilie Convention mét and attended prayers offer-
Tho 1.111 resolution was then read.
ed hy thip Rev. Mr. Palfi'ey. The journal haring
Mr. WILLIAMS mored to amend by striking
bécn renca.
out thich resoluiion, and inserting the following
i Mr. VARNUM laid on the table a resoluíron Resolved, That every religious society,ineor-
proposing to arnend ihe 17th se1109 of that 20 porated, or noi incorporated, shall have pow.
Chapter of the rules and orders of the Courention, er to raise monies for the support of their re-
by rescinding the words“ 8!! a question 13 strike
pective teachers and incidental expenses, in
ont and insert, shall be deemed indivisibye.*
The following gentlemen more appointezi on the
such manner as they sal determine by llie
committee ordered yesterday 10 raw up an હતો- vote of a inajority of the legal voters öissem-
dress to the prople to acconisany ticariendiments hled at any meeting, warned and held accordi-
submitted for inséir adoption or injection vil. Mr.
Sullivan of Boston, Lymanoi Norlianpain, Fisi:-
ing to law.
er of Vesiljorougl, Lawrence or Grocoil and And every person shall have and enjoy the
Bangs of Pi'orcester.
full liberty of loiting with, and paying to the
On motion of Mr. DANA, the House resolved support of waterer religious society lie mar
itself into il conmiitee of llie whole on the unf.- 1 choose, within the limits of this com300"
1
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
193
|
men of
was to
sealth,whether incorporated or not. And ev- the constitution, thc principles for which gentle-
men contended. Whether it sliould prevail or not,
ery person neglecting to unite himself with
he was satisfied with having aii opportunity of pre-
some religious society for the purposes aſore-
senting it and stating his views.
said, shall be classed with the Parish or Pre-
Mr. RANTOUL, of Beverly, said he had heard
cinct in which he may reside, and shall be lia-l principles now advanced by his colleague with
ble to be taxed by the same.
whicii he entirely coincided. He understood him
to say that it is the spirit of the Constitution that
And every denomination of christians, de-
pubic worship should be supported by a general
meaning themselves peaceably, and as good
tax uppon the cominunity. 3 these were tlie
subjects of the Commonwealth, shall be e- views of the gentlemen who acted with hiin, be,
qually under the protection of the law; and (Mr. R.) should find no-difficulty in agreeing witli
no subordination ofany.sect or denomination them.
Mr. WILLIAMS explained,
to another, shall ever be established by law.
Mr. RANTOUL was firror of the
le". PARKER, of Boston, rose at the request of resolve of the select Committee in preference to
the gentleman from Quincy, was
the proposition of his colleague. He thought it
alisent, to propose that in the third article of thie
contained all the principles which he had laid
Declaration of the Bill of Riglits, tlie words - all
down, and all those which we ought to retain. He
men of all religions, demeaning themselves as good thought the effect of that genilemans proposition
subjects shall enjoy the equulprotectionofthe laws."
was that all unincorporated societies should be in-
should be insried, instead of the words “
corporated and obliged to raise nionies for the sun-
every denoinination of Christians.”
M. WILLIASIS had no special objection to
port of public worship: But be thought these so-
cieties could not he obliged to do this without their
this proposition but did not think it would ineet the
consent. He thought the details should be left to
wishes of the people of this common.calth.
tie arranged by the Legislature, overwise abuses
Mr. PARKER withdrew the proposition.
would be likely to arise.
Mr. WILLIAMS said he wished every guard to
Mr. PARKER, of Boston, was happy that they
be placed around religion which was warianted ly
were approximating to the same point in this sle-
is great anibor. His proposition would obviate
bate. His sentiments in relation to the third arti-
many ohjections that had been felt to the constitu-
cle were well known, but it was perhaps, not so
tion as it stood. He thoi glit the report of the se- well known that ise was willing to do any thing lo
lect committee was liable to the same objections is accommodate it to the views of every class of persons
as the constitution. His first resolution
as far as it could be done consistently with preserva
give every society power to raise money to whlige || ing the essential principle itself
. He considered
pcople to submit io having laxes collected by those
thč vicw's of the Convention is fully expressed in fa-
of another denomination was putting them in a vor of a legal provision for the support of public
state of subordination. He thoroolit Tuis proposi- i worship. It was now only necessary to determine
tion would pont out a plain path wliich every one in 'ivliat manner that should be done, consistently
might walkio. It had been said, that the effect of
with the rights of individuals to worship in the
it would be to incorporate at once a great number
for they please. A difficulty had arisen under
of societies l!c adoiiited it. But it would not be
the Constitution from an ambiguity in the jneaning
to all the purposes for which they would be incora
porated hy an act of ille commonwealth. That in- cided formerly that it was not necessary that a so-
ola religious society. He believed it liad been de-
corporated them in detail
, and points out particular || ciety to be entitled to the rights conferred by the
powers and elities, while his proposal only made
Constitation, should be an incorporated society.--
ihem corporations for a particular purpose, that
But in 1810 it was denied by ilie Supreme Judicial
they should raise money for any purpose they night
Court that an unincorporater society did not come
require This he thonght was the spirit of the 3d
within the meamng of tie Constitucion to entitle
article, to secure to the whole opininity sufficient
the teacher to demand the namoy paid by any of
soms of money for the support of public. worship: its members to the Treasurer or the parish in
It had been said that few cases of greirance had which beresided. It could not be a public society
been related. This was true-but many inight be
without being incorporated, yet probably the fram-
41 1:33:40 ; it would take days to relate them, and it
ers of the Constitution did not expece that this
woulil do m good. It had been said that there would be the construction which would be patison
liad been a gricvances since the law of 1811-
it. He appil'chended that this was the ground
Ons as menijencd last evening, and a gentleman
of nearly all the inconveniencies ulich liad arisori,
in the county of Middleses, only iwo years smce,
had been taxed in a town where he did not belong. islature, and to this might be attributed the law of
This wis the cause of so many petitions to the lef-
It is true, in 134 sure, that afier going through two 1811. There were many persons wil!o believer!
Courts lie olitained his money back agaill. Ivir. 1V.
that this law was unconstitutiona). But the Court,
said, he did not speak in relorence in his ow!)
on looking into the subject, were unanimously of
particular denomination, but for odiers, for pos-
opinion that the Legislature had tie power and
cerity-le trished el] to stand on precisely the same
might exien the privilege. He therefore consic.
Slunds. 11c uistind people slıould have the pow- ered the law of 1911 as valid, and that it was an
erotuomn:; !: one society to another of the same
denomination. The law made po provision for This i: but a law and may be repealed
ampli remedy. But a further difficulty arosc.--
this, and the privilege could not be obtained but at
ilie (72115e and trouble of it special law. Beside,
not surprised that gentlemen wished to place the
the law of 18u might be repeated, and wlorie
matter upon comtitutional ground. There may be az
shail sesion when it is repealeel? He had no
change in public sentiment and the law may be re-
pealed
la: 01; io fellowship, or aflation for the man who
Two great prisciples had been establisi-
vould scorer himsely from just tasasion liy joining housc--that the legislature shall liare power 10
eri, and were acquies?ed in by crery part of the
a society were taxes are no: imposed by laiv He
brieret un pay by voluntary subscriptions more
provide for the supori of public worship, and thias
individuals shall be at liberty to worship in the
th:2. tl:ey would of subject to'lasation. He thought
this propositio: was not able to the cuivocatiou carrying these principles into otect. Some who
manner they please. The only difficulty was, in
and snorrlainiy which the article was now liable
2. It would piit all on the same looting of equali.
were opposed to the report of the select commit-
----itenbraced, he longht, the whole spirit up
tec are desirons of incorporating into the couliini
He was
194
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
I
tion the law of 1811. On the other hand it was ob- gone to render their account, and he must soor
jected that this law if made a part of the constitu-
tion; would be liable to great abuses. A persons
follox.
their minds as light beamed upon them on the va.
having joined any society and obtained the certifi- rious subjects discussed. Even Samuel Adams,
cate of a committee of such society, would be ex- who was remarkable for the inflexibility of bis
empted from taxation in the parish in which he re- opinions, after hearing Fisher Ameś's speech up-
sides. He appealed to gentlemen in favor of this on the biennial election of members of Congress,
course, if it would not be liable to great abuses.' A got up, not to oppose as we expected, but to tell us
society of five persons might be formed for the puu-
that he was satisfied with the reasons which had
pose of evading the parish tax, Frauds would be been given, and that he accorded entirely with Mr.
committed which could not be prevented by judicial Ames. This conduct in such a man as Mr. Adams
investigation. Being once in the constitution, what- had a great effect upon the other members of the
ever night be the abuses, they could not be reme. convention. He (Mr. P.) had not got iid of his
died by the legislature. The proposition of the gen- attachment to the third'article. He did not like
tleman from Beverly, recoguized the right of all the part which had been expunged, but the rest he
religious societies to levy taxes for the support did like. He could not understand the motive of
of public worship, and made them corporations for gentlemen of different sects who never united be-
certain parposes, and alloived all persons who died fore, in uniting now against this article. This in
not unite themselves to sonie society, to be taxed-duced him to think that there was something in the
in the parish where they resided. This had a great article which they could not get over. He could
appearance of fairness, but was it of a nature to not find it, but he was willing to yield to the opin-
cure rather than to increase the difficulties? He ions of others.' He canie to sacrifice his prejudices,
'would say nothing of its incorpo, ating by a single and he would agree to adopt the proposition as
act 4 or 500 parishes, but it would hold out a lure modificd by the Chief Justice.
to members of parishes formally to join some other
Mr. BLAKE, of Boston, said, that having
society merely to avoid taxation, and without the
intention of attending worship, in such society. It
had the honor of being one of the Select
allowed any individual to resort to any society
Committee to whom båd beer referred the
through the whole extent of the Commonwealth, very interesting subject, of which a portion
and on becoming a member, whether he attends was then undeë discussion and especially
or not, it, exempts him from being taxed in the absence of the Honorable Chairman
in the parish where he resides. Mr. P appre- l of that Cummittee, whose head and wh se
hended that this would be 'the effect, and that it
would set the whole
heart, he knew, were full of solicitude op
tain modifications to guard against these objec-
tmat : ubject, he felt it to be not less his dua
tions, be should be willing to accede to the propo. ly than bis privilege, rotwithstanding the
sition. He wished to have it provided that a per- then protracted state of the discussion, to
son to be entitled to exeniption in a parish where submit some observations, in addition 10
lic resided, should belong to some other religịous l those which had been made by him on a for.
society in which he usually attends public worship
mer occasion, relative to the ierils of the
and contributes towards the support thereof. He
proposed also one or two other modifications not
question then and now before the Commit.
very material, He alluded to the case of Howe
This sense of duty was the more im.
and Adams, where a minister had been employed perative upon him, on account of the very
by' a religious society to adninister to them only unexpected manner in which it had been
one week in four, in which the court decided that
the pleasure of this Commiitee (owing, with.
it was a society in the meaning of the law of 1811.
Mr. FLINT, of Reading, and Mr. Richardson,
out doubt, to a supposed necessity of an in
of Hingham, spole against the resolution.
flexible adherence to strict parliamentary
Mr. WILLIAMS then accepted the modifica: || rules, through the whole course of iheir pro-
'tion of the resolution proposes by him, suggested ceedings) to receive and to treat the unfyr.
by Mr. Parkei
' in such manner that the second eunate Report of the Select Committit on
paragraph should read ag follows.
the subject of the provisions contained in
person shall have and enjoy the full liberty of unit:
the third article of the Constitution. That
ing with, and paying to the support of whateverjcli-
Report, said Mr. B.' had been literally so
gious society he may choose, in which the public
worship of God shall be mamtained, lyhether in,
overisid and smothered by the numerous.
corporated or not, provided he usually attended and various propositions of samendments and
public worslip therein, and contribulė's towards suústicates that had been heaped upon it,
the expenses thereof; and every person neglecting that its merits or demerits, whalever they
to unite hiniself wiib some religious society for the
might be in reality, we're now either entirely.
purposes aforesaid, shall be able to be taxed for
forgotien, or so completely overlooked, as
the support of public worship in the parish or pre-
cinct in which he may reside.”
scarcly to have been adveried lo, even ia
Mr. DAWES, of Bosion, rejoiced at the pros the way of urgument, during the long and
pectufa reconciliation after so much debate, The tedious debate that had ensued, since the.
e institution was adopted just after he left the law day of its presentment to the Covention.
oficeof one of its principal founders, and he had Genile men might, nevertheless, be assur,
an opportunity of witnessing the anxiety of those
ed, said Mr B. that the Report of the Select
who raised this bulwark of our liberties. He lind
not forgotten the introductory speech of the gen-
Committee, especially that part of it wluch.
t'rman who is now the oldest member of this con-
has reference to the important subject em".
ntion. That speech wis intended to reconcilie
braced by the third articYe of the Declara-
the discordant sentiments which prevailed in gen- tion of Rights, was by no means a sudden,
t'emen from different parts of the commonwealth jcovsiderate expression of opinion. On
and of lifierent niealis of information. Of the
the conisary, it was the result of the most
spirit of an tv which pievailed in the conven-
anxi is refl'ct'on and deliberation on the
tion of 1788 he could speik with more conidi nie.
H was one of the twelve. gentlemen chosen from
part of every member of that Commitree,
chis town to that convention, Nine of whom have w! o, as he humbly hoped, wese noi entire..
tee.
< And every
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
195
ly destitute of some portion of that forecast ions, than that suggested by the report of
and intelligence for which the generality of the Select Committee:-
the members of this 'bonorable body were With regard to the specific proposition
så pre-eminently distinguished;
which had been submitted by the Reverend
The truth is, said Mr. B. that the attention member from Beverly, and which was then
of the Committee was devoted, for several under discussion, Mr. B. suid, that, viewed
sur.cessive days and nights, and even weeks, either by itself, and alone, or in connexion
to the consideration of the important maat with the proposed amendment that had been
ters referred to in the third article of ihe attached to it, on motion of his honorable
Constitution, and he would venture to vše colleague, the Chief Justice, it was, at any
sert, that scarcelý a proposition had been in. rate, no novelty in the view of any mem.
troduced, or an argument urged, either be- ber bf the Special Committee. A similar
fore the Convention, or the Committee of proposition, and one státed almost in the
fi. whole in relation to the principal sub- same terms, had, some weeks since, been
ject, which had not been previously ipiro. submitted to the Select Commitee,, by
duced, and deliberately weighed and consid- one of its members ;-ind after the most
ered, by the Select Comraittee. Some of its deliberate consideration was rejected, 4s
members had strenuously contended in favor having a tendency, in an indirect manner,
of preserving entire all the essential provi- l entirely
, to frustrate the great, fundamental
sions of this article, without any essential principles recognized in tlie article in ques.
change or amendment; others were in favor tion. In the view of the select committee,
of expunging the whole; and others were the objectior to the principle alluded to,
the advocates of such modifications and a- was, that the words " Religious Society's as
mendments, as, in the opinivn of a majority | lherein employed, seemed to be suscepti:
of the Committee, would so have impuired | ble of no fixed and certain di finition, which
árid frittered away the essential principles was a property, of all others, most desirao
recognized in the article, as to have render. ll ble in a constirutional provision ; that it
ed the whole entirely inoperative. There might very fairly be contended, according.
was; said Mr. B. an inherent, intripsic diffi. to the popular 'sense, that wherever « trvo
eülty in the whole subject. On the one or three were gathered together," they should
hard, the object was to retain in the Consti. be deemed to consti'ute such a society, for
tution every thing that might be requisite lo religious purposes, itę would be sufficient to
ensure protection and support to religious afford a place of refuge for the capricious
ins 1.utions, which were decred to be so mulc intents of any established parish ; and
essential in the language of the Constitu. thus, to upín.wide the doot, for cvasion of
tion) to the “happinošs of a people, and to all the regular taxe intended by the consti,
the good ordet and preservation of Civil tution to be provided for the support of
Government;" and on the other hand, to public worship ' 'l hat, according to the im.
abstain from any regulation in regard to this pript of this proposicion, evers thing, in the
otiject, which could, by possibility, be con- Cases, iherein supposed, would be left in the
sidered an infringement upon the righrs of custody of the judicial (ribunais ; to all the
conscience, or upon that free and unresirain. Jounts and uncertainties necessarily inci.
ed privilege of opinion and action on relis dent to the ordinary course of trial by jury:
gious subjects, which, of all other things, and in fine, that a principle, « leading and
seerved to have been considered most sacred most important one, which was maifestly ine
by the enlightened men who were the fram- tended by the constitut on, to be fixed and
ers of the Constitution.
determinate, and upon the preservation of
These views, whicli, at the first presento which “ the happiness of the people, and the
ment of the subject, would seem to be op. | good order and pesce of civil government,
posite and repugnant, it was nevertheless are supposed to be so essentially deprind..
The desire of the Select Committe, if possi: || ent, wou:d be left in
ent, wouid be left in the midst of doubts
ble, to reconcile; and for the accomplish and uncertainty.-- On this ground, it was,
ment of this object, they liad even flattered said Mr. B. that the proposition alluded ió
themselves, that the mode contemplated in Wus considered, by a lørge majority of the
their report, was open to as little exception special committee, as entirely inadmissible,
or objection, as any which, probably, could with ut assenling, at the same time, to the
be devised. Mr. B. said that the diversity | virtuat abandonement of the great principle
of sentiment which had been manifested in so explicitly recognized in the article of the
thie course of debate on this subject, before constitution which has 'een mentioned.-
the Committee of the whole, had, more and Sucts, suid Mr. B. were the views of the se-
more, confirmed the impressions which wers lect committee on this point ; such were the
on his mind, as to the correctness of the Views he had bi iself, iaken of the subject ;
views of the Special Committee respecting
and be had no hesitance in glating that they
it; and that no proposition had yet been had not been clianged, in the slightest de.
submitted, which, in bis opinion, would be gree, by any arguments lie had beard, 0:1
likely to place the subject on a mure elig..
The other side, in the course of the debate.
ble footing, with a vicw to the preservation
It had been, said Mr. B. the particular con.
of the essential principle, and the reconcili cern, of the special committee, to relieve
alion of all contrarient interests' and opin the subjeot, as far as practicable from the
pecah
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"MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
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embarrassment which has been mentionedi | garded as nothing more nor'ess than a rule
and bey had humbly hoped that the arrange-1 Founded upon tyranny and usurpation; that
menes proposed in the fourth article of their it was a gross and paluable invasion of ana:
Repnet, might,, with such modifications as lienable rights, and a violation of that most
woulu, probably, be suggested by this en şacred otill rights," the right of conscience !
lightened assembly, have been deemed suf This, said Mr. B. is a prelty high and grlev:
ficient for the..purpose whether they were ous imputation upon the character of our
too. sanguine or not, in the indulgence of present frame of government, as well as
this expectation, semains ye ito be determin upon the character of those who were im..
ed, after that part of the report which has mediately concerned in its formation, and it
been allüded to; shall have been deliber. ought not, therefore to be passed over with
ately discussed and considered
out the most serious and deliberate consid).
It was not however, said Mr. B. with a erarion. If there be any thing in the con-
view of entering into a minute examination siitution of M239uchusetts which wears the
of the details ofibe precise propositions now semblance of tyranny and oppression, be
before this committee, or of its relations would beg: leave to inquire, in he first
and bearings, upon the principal question, place, who were the tyranis and öppressors ?
that be bad riseil upon the present occasion Who else indeed, said Mr. B than that as.
His purpose was; as he believed, of a high- 1 sembisge of most enlightened any illustrious
et, and in his view, of a much more impor. patrivts who were the framers of the instru.
tant nature. He was aware; indeed, that af. ment, and the majority of that bigh sinded
ter the long and elaborate discussions which and patriotic people of this Commonwealth
bad taken place before this committee, for wlió nad seen fit to sanction and adopt it.
Several days pașt, the patience of members Sir, said Mri B, I hold it to be the solemn
must, liqve been exhausted, and their opin duty of this convention, and of every indi-
ions, probably bave been made up and seis vidital member belonging to il, to vindicate
tled with regard to every iliing connected the character of their predecessors, lhe con:
with the third article of the declaration of venijón of 1780; froin go foul and unfounded
rights. From the course of the debate,
an aspersion ; I hold it to be the solemn du.
and from the votes which hud been pussed ty of the people, and of ourselves who are
in committee, on that subject, there seemed the immediate representatives of the peo.
be buttele doubi as to what would bell ple, of he present day, to defend the charó
their decision of the question low before lucter of those who have preceded us, from
them.... Suill however, as the final decision the reproach, the foui, indelisle reproach, of
Upon this, and upon all other questions having,
having, under any, imaginable circumstan
connected with the subject of amending the ces, sanctioned a system of governmtnt, un-
constitution; WAS to be pronounced by the der which the sacred.rights of conscience
sofeteigó peuple ; and as the nembers of could be holden in bondage, or which should
this contention would certy with themi ya admil of any possible construction, whereby
meng their cons!ituents; the sentiments and the unalienable rights of the citizen might
feelings which lid been formed here as to be infringed with impunity, For ourselves
the several subjects wilich had been under | also, said Mr. B. we have something to do
discussion, it could never be too late for any in the way of vindication. As one of the
meinber ofihis bociy to offer suggestions people he could not, hin:self, quietly sub.'
whicli might have a tendency toallas asper- mit in the imputation, that tor more than
ițies; and to correct any improper pre judi: 1 forty years past there had been lurking at
ceş and impressions wich were so likely to the very found tion of our social compact, a
have been produced by the very ežiraordin. principle of injustice, of gross in quuliiy as to
ury argumente, in relation to the whole sub.
che rights of the citizen ; of oppression, and
ject of the third article in the declaration of of tyranny and yet that for a series of
rights, that were urged and reiterated years we should fra ve been so'stupid, as not
by several Reverend Guntlemen, to bave discovered its existerice, eff so tame
other members of this committee; at the and so base, as not to have uttered a single
commencement of this debate. ---Arguments murmur or complaiat respecting it. For the
which had, indied, subsequently been made special commitee, even, who trąd been para
lo yield io the superior force of reason and ticularly charged with trie examination of
truth, but whose pernicious effect upon the this subject, and who, for many successive
minds of members, might noi yei, perhaps, | days, had devoted the most earnest any ans.
have beer, entirely counteracted. It frid, 1008'attention to jis norits, he would hum.
said Mr. B. been advanced before this com. oly hope, also, that there might be found
mittee,' by high and reverend authority, and something like an apology, for thät du'luéso
the positions had been defended, for several unid misapprehension on their part, whicli
succesgive days, with a digree of confidence are implied by the arguments of gentlemen
and, even zel, which would denore convic.
on the other side ; and that this honorable
tion of its {ruih, that the provisions of the body may be disposėd, so far, st least, 10
third, urricle in so far as they go lo enjoin countenance the proceedings of
upon the citizensoy pecu:siury contribution
committee, as to admit, that if there be in
towards the suppor: of public lenching of pie that
part of the constitution which was gube
lx religion, and morality, were to be re. ltemitted to their scrutiny; any principle of 117-
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
197
justice, like that which has been the theme 11 preserve a people from forsaking civiliza.
of so much complaint and remonarance, it ' tion, and falling into a state of savage bare
is, at least, not quite so plain and glaring as barity."., Sach, said Mr. Bi were the sentia
had been pretended; and that if it exist at ments of this most illustrious man, in rela.
a!!, it was so recondite, so deeply seated in tion to the principal subiect referred to in
the constitution, as that it might very nat. that article of our Constitution, which in
urally elude the notice of corpmon and ordi. This assembly, (but on no other occasion, as
nary rinds. But, said Mr. B if there be we have ever heard,) has been the subject of
any provision in the third article of the dec. so much.complaint and reprehension. Such
laration of rights, which savours, as has been the sentiments of a man, whose 'piety and
asserted, of bigotry and isärpation, he would patriotism were coeval and coequal, and
beg leave, again, to inquire who were the constituted the very essence of his charac.
bigots, who the usurpers » Who are the ter;, who, in regard to every thing connect.
men to be denounced as having been the ed with the rights of man, and the liberties
bile leaders in a fouì conspiracy against the of his country, was the very creature of
unalienable rights of the people, the sacred jealousy the child and champion of his
rights of conscience. They were indeed, country's caụse. The man indeed who like
no other than Samuel Adams, Jonn Adams, the dragon of the Hesperides, stood by the
that enlightened and venerable putriut, who trunk of the tree of liberty, and with a
for many days since the assemblage of this never wearied, never sleeping vigilance,
guarded its precious fruits against eyery in.
in our debates, and scattering profusely be. truder. It was to be remembered moreo.
fore us, the fruits of his great wisdom and ver, said Mr. B. that the sentiments allud.
experience. It was, said Mr. B. a well known ed to, were not those of an individual merec
fact, that the former of these most distin. ly, but the result of the combined wisdom
guished men, was the chairman of the com- and intelligence of that illustrious assem:
mittee, who were appointed, in behalf of the blage of statesmen and patriots wbo were
convention who formed the constitution of concerned in the formation of our Constitu-
1780, to draw up an address to their consti- tion; and still more especially, that this
trients, for the purpose of stating and ex same Constitution, at a period too, when the
plaining třic views and principles of fame of civil liberty was burning in all its
thai system of government which was primitive brightness and purity; when the
then abnut being submitted to the consider- people of Massachusetts were united as a
ation of the people. It had been stated to band of brothers in defence of their natural
him, said Mr. B. and upon such authority as and unalienable rights, was sanctioned and
seemed to admit of no doubt of the fact, adopted by the community with a degree of
that the address in question was actually unanimity which denoted beyond all possię
drawn up by the pen of the venerable and ble doubt, the general acquiescence in all
most highly distinguished individual last re. the principles which it contained Who
ferred 10; and as the gentiments of such a then, said Mr. B. shall have the confidence,
min on such a subject, or indeed on any he would not gay leiner šty, to assert at this
subject connected with the rights of man, I day, and upon the authority of such arguo
and the principles of civil liberty, ought per: menis, if so they might be tormed; as had
hans to be received as having, almost the been adduced in support of the position,
force of binding authority, he presumed he that the provisions of the third article, or
should be udniged by the committee in cal. any other provision in the instrument, bad
ling their attention to some portion of that been founded in bigotry and superstition, or
celebrared address. Here Mr. B. read could be deemed an infringement of the
from a pamphlet several passages of the ad. | rights of conscience, or of any other funda-
dress, noticing more particularly the follow mental principle of civil liberiy? The sup-
ing, as having an immediate reference to position was monstious, and carried with it
that article in the Declaration of Rights, such an imputation upon the character and
which was then under discussion before the intelligence of our revolutionary. Patriots
committee: " This article, says the address, as evuld not; for a single moment, be en-
underwent long debate, and took time in ilured!! It had nevertheless been distinctly
proportion to its importance; and we feei Rigerted, in the course of the debate upon
ourselves peculiarly happy in being able :0 The provisions of this article in the Consti:
inform you, that though the debates were lu ion, that they were an invasion upon the .
managed by persons of švarious denomina id alienable rights of the citizen, and conse.
tion, it was finally agreed upon with more qu: ntly that it did not belong even to a ma.
unanimity than usually takes place in disqui- l jority of the people, to establish any such
sitions of this nature; we wish you to con. regulxtion. Upon this point, said Mr. B,
sides the subject with candor and attention. he had beer completely anticipated by the
Sürely it would be an affront tö the people
arguments of gentlemen who had preceded
of Massachusetts Bay, to labor to convince hinn He would however, in geri orailers,
them that he honor and happiness of a peo. t be the fiberty to remark that not only the
ple depend upon morality; and that the honorable member from Pic:field, but all
public worship of Gud has a tendency to in Ohers who had ssisted in ine :
culcate i he principles thereof, as well as tollof bis propositions, båd by their concessions
.:, in
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTIÓN:
completely abandoned the ground which | duties, were plainly inculeated by its prex
they bad originally assumed in the argu cepts. If then, said Mr. B. the principles
ment. They had all distinctly admitted the of this holy religion we profess, be so inti.
soundness of the two first propositions | mately connected with the best interests
which are laid down, so clearly, in the arti and welfare of civil society, how shall it be
ale alluded to; and indeed their several denied, that it is not only the privilege, but
proposals of amendment bad, in every in- the duty of that society, by all reasonable
stance, bero prefaced by a recital in totidem and lawful means, to cherish and protect
verbis, of the very terms in which those pro. them? But, said Mr. B. another objection
positions are stated in the article in ques. had been stated, and urged with. peculiar
tien, It resulted then of course, as the oila emph-sis before the committee, against the
ly point to be settled, what are the rights of provision of the constitution requiring con.
the majority of a people, in regard to a rule tribution of the citizen for the maintenance
which is essentially necessary to their happia of institutions for the public worship of
ncse, and to the good order and preserva. God! It had been contended, and for seve-
tion of that civil government, which was the ral successive days the committee had been
first and only object of the social compact. entertained agd editied also, as he hoped,
On this bead, it ought to be the subject by a series of sublime discourses which had
of inquiry, said
Mr. B. what are not, been poured down upon them by reverend
rather than what are the rights of a major. | gentlemen and others, from various quar-
ity of the sovereign people. Allowing to ters of the house, who had risen in support
the whole people, but the mere right of of the position, that the constitutional pro.
self preservation, which belongs to the vision which had been referred to, was
meanest individual in society, and is superi. nothing less than a gro88 and palpable in-
or to all laws, and all restraints, and it would fringement of the sacred rights of conscience
follow, of course, that in regard to whatev. Upon this topic, the arguments of gentle.
er might be " essential to the happiness of li men had been replete with unusual warmth
that people, and to the preservation of their and animation ; and ministers of the gospel,
government,” they had the right to do any and msgistrates and preople, had been invoka
thing and every thing, but the right to do ed, by the most solemn and pathetic apo
wrong. It is nevertheless admitted that ev. peals, to bear witness that the constitution
en & majority of the people, in the very of Massachusetts--that same constitution
plenitude of their sovereignty, have not the to which we had been so much attached,
right to establish a rule of government and under whose benign influence and pro.
which sball interfere with the rights of con. tection, for more than forty long years ev.
science, or any other right wbich can prop. ery order and description of the citizens
erly be classed among the unalienable rights seemed to have been so contented and hap.
of the citizen ; and it, therefore, remained py-had, nevertheless, perpelually carried
to be considered only, whether there be in its bosom a principle of insupportable
any thing, in the article alluded to, that
tyranny and oppression!! The position,
could !airly be construed an infringement | said Mr. B., was a pretty bold one, and was
of these rights. Upon this point also, said deserving, most certainly of the very seri-
Mr. B. the arguments of gentlemen who had ous consideration of this coin mitiee. On
preceded bim, were a complete anticipation || such a subject, be regretted extremely that
of every thing he could have suggested. || the remarks of some gentlemen in the course
It had been shewn, beyond the power of of the debate had seemed to have been ad.
contradiction, that Christianity was not dressed rather to the feelings and imagina-
merely that concern between the creature tions of this committee, iban to their res.
and creator, which would be likely to be son and understanding. On a subject of so
injured by every possible interference of much importance and solemnity, it was cer-
the civil authority, even in the way of an. tainly desirable that reverend gentlemen
couragement and protection; that it was a should have been somewhat exact in thcir
social principle, on the encouragement and
el Cefinitions and reasonings. On no subject,
protection and preservation of which the
ag on
happiness of a people, and all their nearest rights of conscience, was the mind or imag:
and dearest interests and concerns in socie. ination of man so apt to indulge in vair. and
ty were most essentially dependent. It had extravagant speculations. The truth of this
already, said Mr B. been most forcibly il, remark had been most strikingly exempli-
- lastrated before this committee, and he fied in the course of this debate. Reverend
would not attempt to give any additional gentlemen, in their discourses and appeals,
weight to the sentimeni, that this religion load, indeed, seared to the topmost height:
which we profess, was not that mere soli- of the subject, but had disdained to look at
Irry, individual concern that had been rep. the real principle which lies at the bottom.
regented. On the otber hand, that it had What then, he would inquire, were the real
been bestowed by its great author on man, meaning and signification of that poinciple,
not only as an individual, but as a member which had been so earnestly contended for
of civil society; that love of neighbor, and under the name of “right of conscience"
charity and good works arong men, and in regard to matters of religion? If, by it,
ndead the whole code of moral and social were intended that sight only, whereby er.
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
199
99
ppy citizen of the commonwealth should bel, tions; those institutions which were pro.
left to the free and unlimited enjoyment ofll nounced by.che Constitution, and even ad.
his opinions and wili, io relation to every mitted in the arguments of gentlemen, to
thing immediately connected with his relig- be so essential to the happiness of the peo.
ion; or if, to adopt the language which ple, and the preservation of peace and good
was used in another article of the Constitu- order in civil government, should be left
tion, no more was intended by gentlemen, to the voluntary disposition of every man
than that " $20 subject of the Bominonzuealth in the community who might choose to re-
should be molested or resirained, in his person, sort to the subterfuge of a conscientious
liberty or estate, from worshipping God, in the scruple--Sir, said Mr. B. there is no end to
manner and season most agreeable to the die- scruples or pretended scruples of this kind :
fates of his own conscience. If so much, and there is scarcely a man in the community,
nothing more were intended by the argu. whatever may be his character or his con-
ments of gentlemen, then, said Mr. B. he duct among his fellow men, who does not
was quile sure, there was not a meinber of believe, or at least imagine, that in every
that committee, not an individual in the concern of his life he has been regulated by
commonwealth, who could be disposed to by the dictates of a “good conscience."
question the soundness of the principle, or,
“ We trust we have “a good conscience,"
in any manner or degree, to disturb its op- in a sentiment almosl universal.
eration', The “ right of conscience,” as One shall grind the face of the poor, shall
thus defined, was plain and intelligible; it have wrung ibe scanty pittance from the
was distinctly recognised and established, helpless widow and the orphan, yet what be
in more than one article of the constitution, exacted was his due, and as he pays his
and of all other rights belonging to the cit. own debts. So, in good conscience, he has the
igen, it was deemed, by the framers of that right to require of others the payment of
instrument to be the most sacred and invio. \l theirs.
lable. This was also, without doubt, said Even the remorseless Jew, prepared with
Mr. B. to be reckoned among the unaliena- his knife and his scales, to carve the pound
ble rights of the citizen, and it followed of flesh from the bosom of bis debtor, did but
therefore, as a conclusion, that neither the exact the due and legal forfeit of his bond:
government of Massachusetts, nor a major- | he moreover, fulflled his bargaing upon the
ity of the people, sovereign as they are, are
Rialto, and we are not told that he was de.
permitted on any legitimate ground of prin- terred, by any qualm of conscience, from
ciple or reason to interfere with its exercise. proceeding to the execution of the bloody
But, said Mr. B. while no man in the com- business he had in view. Sir, said Mr. B,
munity could be more disposed than he was this plea of conscience often stands in the
not only as regards religion but as relates lo way of legislative proceeding; it had, more
every other concern of life, to hold sacred than once, stood in our own way, since the
and inviolate the claims of conscience, yet \l\first assemblage of tbis convention, in rela-
he was not inclined for one, to pay great def. tion to several important subjects that Dave
erence to the pretensions of that epecious and been passing in discussion before us. In re,
notional thing, which, occasionally, bad 88. lation to the proposed organization and di&.
sumed that name. While on the one hand, || cipline of the militia, it had been seen that
be would be among the last to advocate any whol lasses of individuals had claimed to
provision in the Const:tution, which should be exempt from the operation of the gepers!
disturb in the slightest degree the real right || principle, because in “good conscience'
of conscience, yet on the other hand he would they could not endure the idea of wars and
Al be deterred from the adoption of a sound battles, or submit to all the horrors of bear.
and salutary principle, by yielding too read- ing arms !! So, as to the concerns of the
jly, to its freaks and caprices, its pleas and Judicial department; the very streams of
its pretexts. He well knew, said Mr. B. justice must be impeded, and its fountains
that when the reverend and pious and high-
broken up, by reason of eonscientious scrų.
y respectable members of this assembly, ples on the subject of oaths. Many other
bad been speaking of conscientious scru- instances, by way of example, might be enu.
ples in relation to the subject under discus. merated, for the purpose of shewing the in.
sion, they meant not to be more indulgent calculable mischief and inconvenience which
than he was to mere affectation and pretence. must attend the management of the varie
But it should be remembered said Mr. B. ous concerns of society, were we to attach
that neither the Constitution nor the laws great importance to objections of this kind!
were made for the government of the pious But, said Mr. B. there was, without doubt,
and the virtuous part of the community ; or a genuine, admitted right of conscience,
in other words of such men as are the rever. which was holder sacred by the constitu;
end members of this Convention. It was tion, and which most assuredly, ought not to
for the restraint of the profligate, and licen. be, and he trusted never would be, violated
lious; for the controul of the unprincipled with impunity, either by the people or their
and lawless, that both the Constitution and representatives. He had already, in a form.
the law were alone intended. What then, er part of his remarks, attempted to give
said Mr. B. might not be the mischief, if something like an explanation of the natura
the whole subject of our religious institu-. ll of this right--and he would here take occaç
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IMASSACHOSETTS CONVENTION
1
sion to repeat, that according to his appre. ing for its object to diffu;e far and wide,
hension, it was not to the subject of this the principles of Christianity, not only
right, but to a very different subject, and hrough the
hrough the country, but through the
object, to which the arguments of gentle. world; he would ask if the minori.
men on the otber side, were alone applica- ty in such case, being members, aşa
ble. His Rev. colleague from Boślon; with they were of g
were of s Christian community,
2 frantinage and candor that were the could complain of injustice, much less could
peculiar and well known characteristica they feel their consciences aflicted when res
of his disposition on all subjects, bad, in the quired to contribute for the accomplishment
course of his arguments, been pleased to of so grand, so noble an undertaking? They
admit, that every religious institution in the might indced disapprove the project, iť
commonwealth, of whatever sect or droom: might appear to them as being wild and
ination, had been productive; in his opin. visionary, but of all this, the majority, and
ion, and would continue to be 30, of benefi not they, are the legitimate arbiters. The
cial effects upon tie morale and good order question returns, is there any thing in the
of society.other Rev. Gentlemeå had seen case, at which the conscience of the most
it also, to express in the course of debate, l scrupulous individual would revolt, who, at
å similar sentiment. In this concession, the same time should proſess to be uncon.
then, said Mr. B. be found quite enough, if cerned for his money?. Suppose, again, it
there were nothing else favoarable, in the should be the pleasure of a majority of this
case, for the support of the principle for nation to erect near the centre of the union;
which he had contended; upon this ground some grand edifice, in faini imitation of the
the question had ceased to be a matter of renowned temple of ine great and wise man
concience, and had become, å mere question of antiquity ;-suppose it were dedicated to
of taxation of money and nothing besides. the service of Christiani'y, and the people
If the Baptist, the Methodist, the Episcopa- were invited, but not compelled, annually to
lian, and all other teachers of any and every assemble thereat, and to unite in one great
denomination of Christians, were, in reality, act of devotion and praise to the King of
as had been conceded, doing good to the Kings and Lord of Lords ? Suppose the
· cause of civil society by their instructions, happiness of the people"" the preservation
How could it be suid' by any man, with reall of civil government," were deemed by the
son, that he could not, conscientiously, ac wajority, to'be essentiaily dependent on the
minister to the support of such teachers, al- good effects of soch an institutinin; was there
tilough their particulur tenets as Christians any thing in the project, said Mr. B. (unuse
happened not to be precisely in anisul with usi and extraordinary as it migkt be esteemi
his own ! He insisied therefore, again and ed) that was calculated to attright the con
again, that the chjection was founded, not science of the citizen ; or io excite in his
on any scruple of conscience, but was mind any other scruple or migiving, than
ferable only to a question of expense.-Yet such as might arise from the objection of
it had appeared from the course of the de. becoming ibutary, against bis will and bis
bate, that there must be something abso. wishes, to the furtherance, of so extravagant,
lutely shocking to the feelings of a conscien- so fantastic an undcrtaking. It was not then,
tious Christian that he should be required said Mr. B. an fair of conscience, but, in
to contribute, bowever indirectly, and how. truth, an aveision to taxes, that has been
ever necessary might be the requisition for made the foundation of the argument
the great purposes of Civil Government, to throughout this debate, against the exibling
the support of any religious teacher, what- provisions of our admirable construcioni
ever might be his purity and piety, but which relate to the subject of our instituto
whose particular tenets were not precisely tions for public worship and, said Mr. B.
conformable with his own ; and gentlemen it was wority of all notice, that among all
have even spoken op & tax in such case, the grievances that had been stated from
with an expression of abhorrence, as though ll different quarters of the house, and not wish:
it were to be appropriated to the promotion standing the vist yariety' of detail, with
of Pagan idolatry, or of the horrible riles, which the committee had been favored, re-
and abominations of the Temple of Jugger- specting warrants, and law suits, of parishi
naut, as relates to the true principle for rates and assessmenis, not a single individ.
which he contended, and in further explana- ual had been heard to complain of uny m2 73
tion of the interest of Civil Government in tal agony, or any wound that had been in
the question, as well as its right to interfere Aicted on his conscience. He was wil.
to the extent contemplated in the third ar. ling, said Mr. B. 10 admit, and he
ticle of the constitution, he begged leave, cheerfully did so,' that particular incon.
said Mr. B. to state one" or lwo exum. veniences and inequalities had,'occasionally
ples, in the way of illustration.-Suppore, been experienced under the operation of the
suid Mr. B. a majori:y of the people of the constitutional provision; and that some such
tbe Uđited States, were to decide, that it might very probably be attenuant, a so, up.
would advancě the dignity and glory of the on the arrangement which had been propos.
nation, that it would be promotive of its éd by the Select Committee. It was most
honour ind happiness, to establish, al the certain, however, ihatif the combined iniel
public expense, a Missionary Society, hav- ll ligence and wisdom of the Universe were
re.
MASSACHUSETTS, CONVENTION.
201
1
concentrated and engaged in deliberating u had repeatedly decided on the leading principles,
ûion this subject, it would be impossible that it was in the power of the government, and it
was its duty to provide for the support of public
that say general rule should be established,
worship. If they went into detail, they would never
that would be exempt from similar excep-
come to an end. Their ohject should be to fix only
tion. The laws of society, like the laws of
general rules, and leave the application to be made
nature, were steady and uniform in their op. by the legislature. It was perfectly well observed
eration, and could not bend to particular ca. by the gentleman from Reading, the more they in.
369. We behold the summer's cloud; it is serted in the constitution which the legislature
driven on its course by the impulse of a fix
could not modify, the greater was the opening for
abuse. Gentlemen were mistaken if they thought
ed, undeviating, unchangeable principle, and
that the longer they made the provisions of the
stops not in its career to select the places constitution, the more clear they should make them.
whereon to pour its waters ;-the lightnings
-the lightnings Litigation was never avoided by having long stat-
also descend, the substance of one man i utes. The legislature ought to have the power of
blasted, and another saved-yet who was making the particular provisions on this siibject as
tbere so foolish as to complain of inequali.
on others. Where is the definition pi' murdér left?
The legislature may say that slaying without malice
ties in the operation of this grand phenome.
shall he murder. They may say that stealing a
non in naturé, or to say, he desires not the
shilling shall be capital. Yet the constitution does
refreshing and ferựilizing showers of Heav-
not go into details on these subjects. The commit-
en? Of * similar character, said Mr.Bit tee had listened to cases of particular hardships....
had appeared to his mind, and he had devot. This was a necessary consequence of all general
ed much attention to the subject, were the
rules. The sects in this country seemed, to require
more guards against the oppression of eacla other,
inconveniences and inequalities which had
than they would in Turkey against the oppression
been so feelingly and foicibly stated in ar.
of the Grand Seignor. He intreated genilemento
gument, by some of the members of this
consider that if their debates were to go abroad
Conmittee, Ig his view they were the nal.
literally reported, the impression would be that re-
oral and necess ry effect of itie generalily ligious liberty did not exist among us. The French
of the provision, rather than the füuli of time had a maxim in eloquence that nothing was beauti-
Provision itself. But whatever they might
ful which was not true. He wished gentlemen
be, or to whalever cause attributable, they
would pay regard to this maxim in their
speeches.
The committee had agreed to strike out of the con
had seemed to him, when put in comparison
tution that part which respects enjoining attende
with the greal public benefits which iad
ance on public worship. He agreed with thon).-
been and would continue to be derived frorn That was the only part which seemned to affect lib-
the preservation of the grand principle recusa erly of conscience. Gentlemen bad talked of pays
nized in the third article of ine Declaration | ing for doctrines abliorent to their feelings--he
knew of none such, The effect of every sect was
of Rights, 28. but a grain of sand on the des.
good, when we look to the interest of society. He
ert of Arabia, or but a single drop to all the
might dissent from one on account of its excessive
waters of ocean.
fanaticisin, ånd from another eg account of its ex-
Mr. B. added by stating that it had beer cessive liberality; but no man would say they were
the anxious desire of the special comm tee not beneficial to society. How then could they
ko obviale, as far as possible, all ite income object, to taxes for the suppost of them an the
veniences which had been experienced un-
ground of conscience? It was proper 10 put guards
on the power of taxing for this purpose ; but there
der the operation of the constitutional pro-
was no rightof conscience in the case ; it was a right
vision as it stands ; And he vet entertained of property. When gentlemen should put it on this
the hope, that the plan proposed by the re- ground, he should agree with ihein,and thien the queso
port of that committee, with some few mod. tion will amount to nothing more than this; what
ifications that might be sugresel, woulu power or what duties shall be put upon the Legisla-
be acceptable to all.
ture. The committee had agreed io strike out the
M". B. temarked, in conclusion, that it
clause for enjoining attendance on public worship.
had beeii his intention to take no other part ly said that if the law. of"1811 should continue in
What remained to be done? It had been frequent ;
in the discussion than as a merė laymari ;
force nothing more would be wanted. That law
Thathe professed not to have been actuated was a declarntory law; it had been acied upon; it
by any extraordinary zeal or solicitude on stood on the ground of other láws, which had been
the uccision, but had looked at a principle
found satisíactory. There was no reason to sup-
in the constitution with reference only to
pose the legislature would repeal this law,any more
than the law l'especting primogeniture or estates
ils ! Alve:Ice and operation upon the best
tail. One part of the law of 1811 put unincorporat-
interesi of society, and pretended to feel no
ed societies on a 'ſooting with incorporated socio-
other concern for its preseivation, ihan ties; another part related to the disputed point,
Hitp individual whether a man could go fron one society to anotto
in t'ie community.
er of the same denomination. The learned gere
Mr. WEBSTER said his principal object in ris
lemau from Newburypoit said yesterday, that one
ing, was to ask the gentleman who proposed the might" by this law; and other gentlemen of great
modification of the amendment,whether the amenda | weight, among them the chairman of the select
ment would not allow any three men to form a so-
committee, (Mr. Bliss) had said that the true
ciety and contribute a shilling 'n piece and bear a construction of the constitution itself allowed
serinon once in two years, and be excused from the same thing. The third resolution of the sea
any further attention to public worship. This con-
lect committee, which had just been adopted, re-
sequence seemed to him to follow ingevitably.- cognized the principle that unincorporated socie.
Mr. W. said that as he was (l', he would take occa-
ties were such as should discharge a person from
sion to discharge all his Muiv in relatio. to the his former society-a branch of the law of 1811,
present subject. This committee, a numerous body, Was not this enough? and better than going into a
:
:
1
202
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
great deal of detail ? The word “Protestant” had
AFTERNOO.V.
given place to the word " Christian" and the clause
The Convention met according to adjournment:
for enjjning attendance on public worship was
Mr. WEBSTER said that in committee of the
struck out. What more was required? Nothing
whole in the forenoon,a vote was taken; the effect
but to make certain the right of going from one so-
of which if passed in the affirmative, would have
ciety to another of the same denomination. He
been to terminate the debate on the subject hefore
was willing to do this ; and if he might, as he be-
the committee. It was passed in the negative by
lieved he might, he ivould move to aniend the a-
mendment of the gentleman from Beverly as modis | very properly given. No gentleman could sup;
the casting vote of the Chairman of the committee,
had-at the suggestion of his colleague,(Mr Parker)
pose that any alteration of the Constitution could
by striking out ail after the word "resolved" and
be carried into effect which was passed by a sino
inserting the following, viz:-
gle vote or half a vote of that body. He had as-
“ That it is not expeclient to make any certained that it was not generally understood that
further alteration in the Third Article of the the adoption of the resolution which he had pro-
Declaration of Rights, except to provide, pused would be to adopt the main principles of the
that all monies paid by the subject for the
law of 1811. He should ask to have the resolu,
support of public worship and of the public order to move that it be committed 10 a committee
tion read from the chair, and it would then be in
teachers of piety, religion and morality, if | of the whole and made the order of the day for
he shall request it, be applied to the public || this day.
teacher, or teachers, if any, on whose in- The resolution being read, Mr. Webster moved
struction he attends, wbether of the same, or
as above stated.
of a different sect or denomination from that commitment, and Mr. Dwight spoke in favor of it.
Mr. Martin, and Mr. Nichols, opposed the
in which the inoney is raised :">
Mr. WILDE said that he should not have op-
It would recognise the two great principles of the
law of 1817, relating to unincorporated societies, | posed the motion if it had nog been placed on
ground that he thought was untenable ; that some
and to going from one society to another of the
gentlemen were mistaken in supposing that it did
same denomination. Hisapology for making this
enibrace the substance of the law of 1811.
proposition was, that the subject was so fertile in
Mr. W. thought that it did not contain the sub-
projects, it was necessary to take the sense of the
stance of tbat law. It did not contain the second
committee negatively.
section in any degree. That section provided that
The CHAIRMAN said -the proposition could
any person having obtained a certificate of a como
not be received, because, if adopted, it would ex-
mittee of any religious society, though he should
clude from consideration other propositions bem not have contributed a cent towards the support of
fore the committee.
religion in that society, is exempted from taxation
Mr. WEBSTER said he was surprised at this
in the parish in which he resides. That was not
decision. On this principle no matter could be de-
contained in the proposition, but on the other hand
cided, unless every other matter which was con-
it would require that all should be taxed in the
tradictory was firsi discussed. Giving the negative | parishes and the money drawn out. The only diſa
to a proposition was discussion enough.
ference between it and the third article was
thatit
After Messrs. Dana, Quincy and Whittemore
allowed persons to go from the regular society to,
had made a few remarks on the point of order,
another of the same denomination and to draw out
Mr. Webster appealed froni the decision of the
the amount of his tax for the support of the society
chair, and gave his reasons.
A resolution report: to which he has become united. The difference
ed by the select committee is under consideration. between it and the proposition for which it was a
An amendinent is proposed. He moves to amend
substitute was, that the latter allowed all societies,
the amendment. Amendments could be built two
to raise monies by lax for their own purposes, and
Stories high--as the chairman had correctly l exempted the members of them from inxation, in-
expressed it, and no higher. He amended by a
stead of allowing the taxes paid by such members
greeing with the gentleman from Beverly to strike
to be drawn from the town and parish treasuries.
out, and differed from him as to the matter to be
He was therefore opposed to the commitment
inserted.
He had never before voted against the commit:
The question on the appeal was taken and de-
ment of any proposition to a committee of the
cided against the chair, 109 to 209.
whole. But this subject had been already discus.
Mr. Nichols, Mr. Williams of Beverly, Mr. Low sed in the committee.
of Beverly, Mr. Lincoln of Boston, Mr. Stone of
Stow and Boxhorongh, and Mr Lincoln of Wor-
Mr. WEBSTER understood the rule of the
cester, spoke against the resolution.
House to be that every motion proposing an a-
Mr WEBSTER replied to the remarks of the
mendment of the Constitution should first be dis-
gentlemen who opposed the resolution.
cussed in committee of the whole before being
The question on acceptiog the proposition offer-
acted upon in Convention. This had not been so
ed hjr Mr. \Vebster was then taken, and the votes
riscussed. He should not cglisider it a great ex.
were 196.10 195.
Audine chairman voting with
tension of the courtesy af the gentleman to allow
the minority, there was an equal division and the
it the favor which he says he has extended to eva.
question was lost.
ery other proposition. He asked if gentlemen ex.:
The committee then rose, reported progress,
pected to carry any amendment when it had been
and had leave to sit again.
decided within half a vote that no fariher altera..
Įrave of absence was granted to Messrs. Hos-
ion was necessary.
ford, of Williamstown, Smith of Sunderland, and Mr. WILDE stated his view of the rựle alluded
Barnard, Mitchell, Folger, Burnel and William
Mitchell of Nantucket. The five last named gen- Mr. WEBSTER asked how it could be known
ilemen were excused on the ground that the harbor that a proposition had been discussed in commit .
of Nantucket would probably be frozen up so as tee of the whole, when there had been no report
to prevent their return to their homes this winter, on the proposition.
if they are longer detained.
The question was then taken on Mr. Webster's
Hir. HUSSEY of Nantucket urged at some
motion and lost-144 to 187.
ength the reasons for granting leave to these gen. Leave of absence was granted to Mr. McLellan
danen. Aujourried to half past 3 in the afternoon. of Coleraine,
to.
1
F
1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
203
On motion of Mr. WILSIAMS, the Convention was maintained or not, and it would go to
then went into committee of the whole, on the una a jury to decide whether it was a society within
finished business of the forenoon; Mr. Varnus in the meaning of the constitution. It i ould easily be
the chair.
shown whether public worship was maintained in
The resolution offered by Mr. WILLIAMS as a suitable manner. It would undoubtedly be re-
modified, 'vas read.
quired that it should be maintained constantly, un-
Mr. WEBSTER stated his objections to the less prevented by some accident or some sufficient
proposition. He asked how it would be deter- reason. He thought the provision was more effecă
mined what was the maintenance of public wor: tual than if it was attempted to designate the ob-
ship. Three men, the richest in the communityject by any form of words. The first part of the
might form a society, pay a shilling a piece and resolution he did not consider of much importance;
have a sermon once a year, and this would be it was at the worst, but haripless.
maintaining public worship. It would be impos- Mr. FOSTER spoke against the résolution.
sible to define public worship in such a manner Mr. WEBSTER said heknew it was hard to dea
that this provision would not entirely do away the fend a fortress after these who had been principal-
effect of the third article. It was not merely a ly relied upon had abandoned the defence. He-
contest for the manner in which money should be came into this debate at a late period. He beó
raised but for the amount. He contended for an lieved that the 3d article might be useful, but this
equality in the amount of contributions for the sup- proposition was totally subversive of all that was
port of public worship and religious instruction in contaiued in that article. It was called a treaty
proportion to the ability of
for réconciling those who had maintained different
to pays. He would not leave it for the poorer opinions. He wished not to be bound by the trea-
class of the community to maintain a stated obser- ty: He would rather take the proposition of the
-vance of public worship while others shall have it gentleman from Pittsfield. After laying it down
at their option to meet once a month or once a that it shall be the duty of the Legislature to pro-
year, and call that public worship.
vide for the support of public worship it takes from
Mr. PARKER, of Boston did not expect to be them the power to make such provision. He would
called upon to enter the field of combat on any pro- not put his name to such, a treaty: The Conven-
position. He thought that every one would be sat- tion in the votes they had passed, had adopted the
isfied that he should not be willing to make any al. ground that the whole public as a community has
teration in the 3d article that should impair the ef- an interest in søpportirg public instructors of piety,
fect of it. The proposition which had met with religion and morality. He knew that there were
his concurrence had been pronounced by the gen- various doctrines that it had been maintained
tleman last speaking to be the worst proposition that government had nothing to do with religion.
that had been submitted. It might be so, but he He went on the ground that the committee liad alrea-
should appeal to the sepse of the convention. If dy established that the state had an interest in the
he should be satisfied that it would materially impair support of religion. He was then for the state,
the effect of the 3d article, he would vote against and not for religion. If it was true, as the commit-
it at the last stage. The essence and marrow of tee had determined, that the community has an in-
the article was, lhat towns and parishes should terest in religion, he who has the greatest stake in
have power to levy taxes for the support of public the community, has the greatest interest in the supa
worship. But there was another part of it which port of religion. Whatever is for the public
required that the rights of individuals should not good, every one was bound to contribute to the
be interfered with. The question nowwas in what support of according to his ability. It having
manner this last object should be secured. Should been determined that the support of public
it be done by taxing every individual within the worship was for the public good, and that it
parish lines and giving permission to those who at- was the duty of the community to provide for its
tend worship in other societies to draw out their support, he objected to any proposition tbat
proportion of the tax ? What interest have the should destroy all equality of contribution. It could
parish in taxing ten or fifteen persons who thenext not be shown that this proposition would secure
day after the money was paid would carry it away, any equality: It makes one nian subject to the
-to their own minister.-If there were persons who law and binds him to contribute, and another not.
belonged to another society, was it not better to It provides the means by which every mai nay a-
stop in the outset, and let them tax theniselves ? vow the obligation and leave the whole burden up-
He thought this was tlie best mode. He knew on the well disposed part of the conmunity. He
that some of his friends were startled atit, but he thought that gentlemen were plaving at extreme
maintained that it was beiter than the law of 1811. cross purposes for their own objects. One party
It was said that that law might be repealed. But is afraid to trust the Legislature with a power to
there was no instance of a law of this kind, which repeal the law of 1811, by which persons are exo
extended an indulgence to a numerous class of peo- l empt from taxation by joining a society which does
ple being repealed. If it was · repealed, it would not support public worship. But they are satisfied
produce a popular excitement that would require with-this propositiou. They do not mean to sub-
its re-enactment He considered it as permanent. lject themselves by it to the liability of supporting
By this law a person who does not attend worship public worship; they mean that every person shall
in the parish where he dwells by getting, the cer- contribute what he pleases and be exemp! from
tificate of a coinmittee of any other society, shall taxation on such terins as he pleases. He did not
be exempt from taxation. Such society may con- complain of this in those gentlemen; it was ac-
sist of five, len or fifteen persons, and it is not ne- cording to their principles. They had given sula
cessary that they shall have a minister to give a ficient pledge that they wished to strike out the
certificate. By this proposition it is provided, wliole of the 3d article. But he protested, that
that to exempi such person from taxation, he shall the Convention, laving resolved that the people
belong to some society where public worship is have a right to coinpel every one to pay for the sup
maintained. But gentlemen asked who is to judge port of public worship according to his ability, and
what is the maintenance of public worship. He that this is essential to the good order and happi.
asked who under the constitulion was to judge ?--- ness of the community, cannot consistently with
He did not know any better rule that to require
this resolution pass a resolve by wbich every indi-
that they should maintain the public worship of vidual can avoid paying, under a plca of having
Suppose an action to be brought in which I joined a society where there is no security for the
the question was involved whetber public worship maintenance of public worship. He knew that si-
1
God.
J
+
204
Five, pero
MASSACHUSETTS
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
CONVENTION.
cieties might be formed and that they had already || with a regard for the third article. No one could
been formed for the express purpose of enabling feel a greater interest than he had in this artic'e.
the members to evade the obligation. This propo- What was the object of tlier article? It was that
sition laid no foundation by which the Legislature public worship shall be supported, This
could enforce any thing like equality in the Con- resolution provides that public worship
stiçution for the support of religious instruction.- shall be supported, , and it includes
the
He deemed there were persons who took a very whole community. It was, objected that there
limited view of this subject. There were those in might bę small societies to defeat the intention of
that hall, whò consider religion as something the article. He did not think the argument was
which concerns only the individual who receives assisted by supposing extreme cases.
it. He did not so view the subject. He consider- sons worshipping in one family would not make
ed it the only security of the good order of society, public worship. It was paying a small compli
as the basis of the moral character of the commu- ment to those who would administer the laws to
nity, as the only protection of a free government. || suppose that they would permit such an evasion of
The question was, whether we should take measures the provision. But suppose that a lew families were
through the power which it was declared the gov- to unite themselves for the purpose of joining stat-
ernment ought to possess to disseminate, this reli- edly in public worship. Where would be the harm?
gion, or leave it to tlie will of every individual. Whose right would be invaded? Were they not as
There were those who maintained thật religion | likely to be benefitted as if they were in large som
would take care of itself. There were others who cieties? As the law now stands, a man may join á
had assumed another basism that religion should religious society and be exempted from taxation
be supported for the good of society-ihat it was in the parish where he resided without ever at-
a duty on society, which divided itself among indi-| tending in the society to which he united himself and
yiduals, in proportion to their interest in society, without contributing one cent to the support of it.
and their ability. He knew it was a growing, ser- This was what he was opposed to, and it was for
ciment; that religion had nothing to do with socie- that i eason that he objected to incorporating the
ty. But it was not the sentinient of this Conven- law into the constitution He was willing to leave
tion--and the duty of the Convention now was to the 3d article as he found it., He did not wish to
carry into effect the sentiment which they had 'ex- alter one' paragraph of it. Even that paragraph
pressed. He said that if the proposition now be- which authorized the legislature to enjoin atiend
fore the Committee should fail, he should renew ance on public worship, in his mind was harmless,
that which he had made in the morning. He pro-|| But he was willing to yield to the opiņions of other
'ceeded to state the substance and effect of that
gentlemen where no important principle was yield-
proposition, and to recapitulate his reasons in fá. ed. He thought that itroducing this provision
vor of it.
ivould greatly amend the law of 1811, and would
3Mr: WILDE explained in relation to what he guard as far as possible against all evils. He should
had before said on the subject of the law of 1811,and
agree to the resolution,
replied to some of the remarks of the gentleman Mr. FOSTER was opposed to the resolution-
who last spoke. He objected to introducing all He thought it would destroy the effect and value of
the provisions of that law into the Constitution bie- all that had been agreed to. The gentleman last
cause it was not wise to go much into detail, be- || speaking bad objected to supposing an extremë
cause a change of circumstances may require an He ohjected to supposing a society of five,
alieraliou of details, and because there were cera He, (Mr. F.) would suppose a society, of twenty, a
tiin provisio's of the law, wliich he stated, that inumber which à Comnittee of the Convention had
would be liable to great abuses. He compared the supposed sufficient. Three families would consti
proposition of the gentlenian who last spoke, with tute the number. What Legislature would ever
that now before the committee. One provided that || compel them, regularly to support públic worship.
persons belonging to other societies should If they attempted to compel them, the society
draw out the amount of their taxés assessed in the
would be unable to do it A common parish
parish where they resided; the otlier exempted such might be divided into half a dozen such societiesis
persons from taxation, with the essential provisions, and not one of them would be able to support pab
that they should attend and contribute to the mainte- lic worship. He had known a case where a per-
ñance of public worship in the society of which they soń went half a day to meeting for three years
,
'were members. He thought the latter proposition and paid a quarter of a dollar for a certificate
was not liable to the objection founded on the uncer- which exempted him from taxation in the parish
tainly as to what was a religious society. If it was where he resided. Rather than adopt such a meä-
an ohjection, the 3d resolution of the select com-
sure, he would go home and say that they could do
mittee was liableto the same objection. That res- nothing. Hie vastly preferred the proposition of
olution makes it the duty of the legislature to au- the gentleman from Concord. All denominations
thorize and require the several towns, parishes and now enjoyed equal rights, and this was all that
religious societies incorporated and unincorporat- could be required. How was it possible for men to
ed to make suitable provision at their own expense form themselves into society, and every individual
for the institution of public worship. But there lo retain all his opinions and rights as if he did not
could be no difficulty in determining whether it belong to any society.
was to be considered as a religious society in the Mr. DUTTON said, that we had been told by
meaning of the article. Another objection was, gentlemen, that, these resolutions were so plain,
that its operation would not be equal. He had simple and definite, that there could be no mistake
entirely misconceived the nature of the 3d article, or uncertainty as to their import. They did not siel:
if this argument was of any weight. It was inima-
appear to his mind. The first resolution creates a
terial, if one town had a thousand dollars, while new sort of corporations, unlike any that now exa
the adjoining town supported religious worship list, and unknown to the law. They are quasi core
without a cent. Some religious societies were porations, and he asked gentlemen to define their
rich and others poor and there must be an inequal. Il properties, the extent of their powers, and duties:
ity. The sole object of the article was that every Under the operations of these provisions, cases
town and society should maintain public worship would arise, that would bring briſoſe our courts
and public teachers of piely, religion and morality; questions of real doubt and difficulty;: and there
and it was immaterial whether it was done for a would be a fruitful crop of law suits, about which
salary, or was a labour of love. It was said that we have heard so much lamentation By the seco
the support of this resolution was incousistent ond resolution it is provided that any ban may go.
case.
1
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Ý
article ;
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
205
Din one society in another ivithout furnishing any he gained his cause. The present proposition will
evidence of the fact. The assessors of a parish abridge the liberties granted under the constitu-
know not who to tax; the burtlién of proof is thrown tion. Those who had accepted the modification
upon them, they must proceed at their peril, and if had deceived themselves. If he understood thë
they make a mistake a lawsait ensues. He was a- gentleman from Boston (Mr. Webster), he object-
kvare it night be said that the legislature might pro- ed to this proposition ibat it did not 'secure an e-
vide for the case. It was.true that they might and quality of contribution. There never was such an
it was also, true that they might not. It had been equality. In the town of Boston the rich man paid
objected to these resolutions that any man might not withi reference to his property, but the goods
exempt himself from the payment of the usual ness of his pew. If it was meant to give different
parishi tax, by contributing a trifle to one of these denominations the right of worshipping according
voluntary societies; and this objection was ans to the dictates of their conscience, they ought nos
wered by the Rev. gentlenian who moved the res- to be obliged to pay equal contribations. There
olution, that he would never receive any one into would be circumstances to warrant different sala-
his society unless he paid as much as he had been ries for their respective teachers. He had said
accustomed to pay. He thought it disgraceful- there was much excitement in respect to this 3d
He was willing to give that gentleman full credit for
he said so sti}l ; and not only to alter but
hisgood intentions,but it ivas necessary for the.com- also to retain the article. He agreed with the
mittee to see that his resolutions executed his in- gentleman (Mr. Webster) that there were two para
tentions. Would he undertake to answer for the ties; but when neither could be satisfied it was bet,
hundreds in the state, situated as he himself was, ter to take a medium--take the best they could
or if he would, could be give qs any any security obtain. It was certain that men did work them
for his undertaking. The resolutions were open selves up to a belief that it was a matter of con-
to the full force of ine objection, that a small num- science not to pay for the support of a teacher of a
ber might for mi one of these anomalous societies, | different denomination, though he agreed it was
and exempt themselves froni the support of a reg.
not properly sọ. He was not a dissenter himself
ular christian teacher. All the resolutions, plain he gloried in being. a congregationalist; but he had
and definite as they were said to be, were doubtful, a respect for the consciences of others and was
indefinite and uncertain. This of itself was à suffie- willing to sacrifice much in their behalf. He wish-
jent objection to their adoption. The constitution ed other gentlemen to make some concession
on this subject he understood ; the law of 1811 he not to him but for the sake of public hårmony
understood ;-they had been tried, their operation and satisfaction. :
had been left and ascertained, ty experience and Mr. J. PHILLIPS, of Bostön; wished to
the judgment of our highest court-Much had say a few words in relation to the introduce
been said of vexatious and oppressive lawsuits- tory remarks of the gentleman who had just
but did these never arise from any other parochial spoken... He (Mr. Lrinceln,) said that the
concerns, such as highways, schools, &c. It is proposition of the gentleman from Beverly mod
true that individuals, and parishes, do sometimes ified at the request of the gențleman from Bos-
mistake their rights, sometimes demand more than ton was the last he should have been , willing to re-
is their rights, or what is not their rights, and go to ceive-that one had conceded more than he knew,
law under improper inotives and feelings. . On this and the other had taken more than he intended
$ubject he would suggest one expedient to those yet if they were contented, he should not oppose.
gentleinen who were so very anxious to provide a- Who wore they? The article was to operate not
gainst all abuses, accidents, and possibilities, to in; upon a few individuals in this house, but upon the
sert a provision in the constitution that no man, or whole community. He thought that the gentleman
corporation should hereafter. mistake their rights, if he acted upon such considerations had mistaken
deinand more, or what was not their right, and his duty, and ought to revise his opinion, Mucli
should never resort to the law to gratify their pas. time liad been expended in debate on this ques-
sions.
tion-much of it in compliments which were of no
Mr. LINCOLN, of Worcester, said that if left The time had arrived when they should
to the dicales of his own understanding, the prop; speak in plain language, but with perfect good will,
osition of the gentleman from Beverly as modificd The proportion of congregational parishes was, ás
by the gentlemjin from Boston would be the last 450. to 150 of all other denominations. . Suppose
that he should be willing to vote for; and this for that the 150 go to the root of the question and say
the reasons already given. The gentleman from that it is a matter of conscience not to be taxed for
Beverly would find he had yielded more than be the support of religious worship. The 450 differ,
intended, and the gentleman from Boston, would arid say that it is not a matter of conscience, and
hind that he had gained more than.. he intended ; that the right of taxing is essential to the happiness
but as these two had agreed; he should accede to and good order of society. Who ought to submit
their proposition on the ground of conciliation. on this question ? Certainly the minority until they
This was called a religious subject, but it had ex became the majority, and then he as one of the nii-
cited much irreligious feeling ; to hini lowever it nority would be willing to submit. Why sbould
seemed to be a civil subject. With cespect to the they go on to modify the third ärticle until they had
plans offered, le must take this or some other; be fritterd away all its essential provisions. One para
should not attempt to vindicate this in preference ty would never be saţiştied until they broke down
to
any other. Under the constitution a law had the great principle which was involved in it. He
passed which goes vastly farther than this propo- contended that it was useless to attempt to recons
sition for destroying all obligations for the support
cile the contradictory, views of the two parties on
of religious worship. It had been decided that a this subject. He was opposed to the resolution.
ļaw was constitutional which enabled any number
Mr. #OAR said there were many reasons to in-
of
persons to constitute a society, if there , were duce him to vote against this proposition. Some
but enough to form a committee, and to be exempt- of wlicki had not been submitted to the committee:
ed from tavęs although.procision for public wor- If 1: was true, as suggested by the gentleman in
ship was not made. The gentleman from Siur- the gallery (Mr. Lincoln) that certain gentlemen
bridge (Mr. Leonard) had been procured by a 30- in this amevdmont conceded, and certain other
ciety to officiate a: often as there were five Sun- \ gentlemen gained more than they were aware of;
days in a month. He wils plaintiff as the teacher this was a sufficient reason. Whether this was or
of that society in an action brought to recover the was not the case, he still regarded iç as containing
taxes paid by a member to the towe treasurer, and not only the secds, but the weolè substance of the
use.
27
206
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
{
من
dissolution of the third article. The committee had} Nazareth. Good as the law was, however, he had
now conie to the mery point which occasioned so rather have it a law than a part of the constitution.
much delay in the select comnitive. The propo- The general principle of it we understood; we knew
sitions of the different gentlemen seemed to be ir- its operation. The state of society may render some
reconcileable in their nature. One side contends chaöges necessary in its details. He was willing to
that government has no right to interfere for the entrust this to the legislature. There was no dan-
support of religious worship. Did those who con- ger that they would not consult the will of the peo-
tended so.earnestly; mean to yield this priuciple? ple: If the 3d article remained, its abuses would
He believed in their consistency, that they would be repiedied by the legislature, who were entrusted
not yield it. They were then deceived. Did they with power in respect to the details on subjects e-
consider this principle as relinquishing that ground qually
, dear and important to us He considered
if so, they were not deceived, and could not com- the principle of the 3d article worthy to be preserv-
plain; but would they remain patient and satisfied ed, and so the committee had determined by a large
with this proposition, or would that part of the majority. He implored them not to fritter it away;
community be satisfied whose views they represent- not actually to repeal it. The proposition before
èd? On the other hand, would it be yielded, af- the commiitee gave power to every little conimunity
ter the vote which has been already passed, that of three or five persons the rights of a large corpo-
society has no right to provide by law for public ration. He asked if religious instruction could be
worship? He could not believe it would ever be so well disseminated by these little societies. They
yielded. The right of sclf government would as could not and would not pay for instruction it
soon be given up. The first was as dear and as would be an evasion. Instead of attending public
important to us as the last, and the one could not worship once in a month whenever a month had
exist without the other. Was it then the intention five Sundays in it, they would attend once in a year,
öf gentlemen to regard this proposition as a com- whenever there were twenty nine days in February
pliance with the great principle of the 3d article Religion will pot take care of itself; it requires
already adopted ? He did not consider it as a
money. When corporations were established, it
compliance. A small society may meet and while was usual to put guards upon them. Here hund-
religious worship is maintained, government can- reds of societies were to be incorporated by the
not interfere. Suppose 40 or 50 persons choose constitution without any guards, and it was his ap-
to assemble every sabbath and alternately offer prehension that they would be found doing devil's
prayers. There is no way of compelling them to do work,rather than the work of God. It had been said
more. Religious worship is thus naintained, and that an alteration of the 3d article was demanded
whatever abuses take place the Legislature has no by the voice of public opinion. This was refuted
power to correct them. He asked gentlemen to
by the equal vote given in the morning. Hethought
reflect that they were not making a law, which that no change was necessary--that the legislaturei
could be repealed when found inconvenient, could remedy all evils arising under the article;
.but a provision 'to be engrafted into the con- and that its operation on a man's conscience affect-
stitution.
What would be the situation
ed only that part of it which was situated in his
of our towns ? A minister becomes unpopu- | pocket.
lar; some of his society leave him. The burden Mr. SALTONSTALL said the subject had been
thereby. becomes heavier on the others, and this in- | long under debate, and there had been symptoms
duces some of them to leave; so that half a dozen of impatience, but we had better sit quietly till mid:
only, or still fewer may remain: The law compels vight=till morning, than be driven to a decision
the town to support public worship; is this sinall which would be unsatisfactory to ourselves and to
remainder then to be punished because public the community: When the report of the select
worship is not maintained in that town? And yet commitiee was introduced, he had offered a resol.
he did not know how this difficulty was to be avoid- ution which proposed not to alter the third article
ed. This was a practical reason- not one of the exccpt by substituting the word “ Christian" for
imagination. Such instances had occurred and Protestant." This was afterwards amended on
might occur again. . He wished to avoid this in- the motion of his-friendsit was not capable of di-
durement for going from one society to another.-- vision and he preferred it should be voted down;
It was said, that iſ the object was obtained, it was as he knew his friend from Concord, Mr. Hoar,
'immaterial whether a person paid as much at the was about introducing one like his own originally,
second society as he did before. He apprehended and this was the reason of his, not replying to the
that the absolute annihilation of religious societies gentleman from Worcester. This has also been
would ensue. Leave the power to the legislature postponed for that now under consideration, which
to prevent this evil; and he would be content. But has been amended by those whose views he had
he thought the gentleman who introduced this pro thought similar to his own, but which he felt bound
position never would consent to this, and by his to oppose. The subject is of immense magnitude:
proposition the legislature would not have the power. of infinite importance to the people of this Com-
It was said they were under the necessity of adoptó monwealth for time--for eternity! No vote has
ing this or some other proposition, which had been given sa mucha satisfaction to a large majority of
submitted He thought not. There was another this house and of the whole coinmunity, as that by
alternative. They might leave the constitution which we resolved substantially to retain the con-
were they found it. They knew the evils of this stitutional provision. It was a noble resolution-
and that they were scareely ever complaincd of.--- and shall we now annul it by an inconsistent re-
They did not know what might be the effect of the solve? It has heretolore been a settled princple,
new and untried system. Until it should be demon- not to alter the constitution; unless a large majority
strated that good would flow from it, they ought to was for the change. We have said the presump-
adhere to the old provisions of the constitution. tions are all in its faror-but upon this subject the
Mr. AUSTIN, of Bostoy, said that when the order is inverted; as to the third article it must be
proposition of the gentleman from Beverly was first struck out, unless a large majority is for retaining
made, it was not very palatable, and that as now it! And we are called on to select from among
modified it was totally inoperatire in regard 10.the the amendments, and this by gentlemen who are
support of public worship. He was surprised and satisfied with the article as it stands! Where is
gratified to bear so much respect paid to the law of the consistency of first resolving to retain this pro-
1811. There was a time when that and every vision, and then adopting an amendment which
other act of that period received but little favor. will take away its effect--at least all good effect?
He was glad thai one good things could come out of What will be the situation of our parishes? We
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
207
66 Ease us
pblige them to support a public teacher, and thus is no excitement there is no cause of any--no
put it out of their power to do it. To day a minis- oppression--no abuses for many years-never
ter is settled with unanimity-tomorrow, one man any to excite any general discontent-never any
is dissatisfied--this disaffects another, a third takes for which the constitution is responsible. A part
a freak, and a voluntary society starts up- and of the community have recently set up an alarm
another perhaps; this increases the difficulty, and but the great niajority are quiet. We are free
the parish is broken up. This resolution holds out We have all had perfect freedom of conscience,
alure-offers every inducement to people to cherish The excitement is got up here-we have reared it
discontent and division. Heretofore the policy of ourselves, and gentlemen may work themselves up
our systein has been different. It has been for the to a belief that they have been slaves !
interest of all to promote harmony; and the minor- of our burthen” says a reverend gentleman. There
íty in the settlement of a nipister have generally are no hurthens. Toleration" is a word that does
united with the majority—but now they will with- not apply here--all are put on the same level by
draw, and form a new society, or sign off as it is the constitution that puts it out of the power of
expressed, to one of those associations who raise man to establish ecclesiastical tyranny. It cannot
their money by voluntary subscription, and where exist. That is our security. But one would sup-
they may pay what they pleasema shilling or noth- pose from the debates that we had been manacled
ing! Conscientious scruples, already so plenty, --that tortures, faggots--the stake, were common
will greatly increase. Tax me so much again, and
auto
I will become any thing to avoid it, will be the burning a few heretics, was an occasional offering
language of many. The third article will only im- for the amusement of the standing order! Let us
pose a burthen upon the conscientious part of the make use of our own senses and understandings,
community, who will not evade the true intention of and whatever excitement may be raised, do 'our
the constitution and laws. Mr.S.said there had been duty" fiat justitia, ruat cælum."
many frauds and abuses under the law of 1811, and Mr, WILLIAMS replied to some of the remarks
relatedsome, and observed that it was not in the pow. of the gentleman who spoke last, and answered a
erofthe most respectable and best intentioned minis- number of objections made by other gentlemen'to
ters to prevent them. Is the resolution to put an end the resolution. He denied that there was a great
to doubts and controversies? It is full of uncertain- deal of detail in it. He said that it was intelligi-
ties. The first part authorizes every society to ble, and that common sense would dictate what
raise money &c. . What sort of creatures will these wes meant by religious society. He did not ve-
corporations be? Will they be corporations ? Will lieve that persons would take advantage of the ex-
actions lie against them ? How are meetings to pedient of forming small societies to avoid payment
be 6 warned and held according to law ?" 'Is not of taxes. He knew of no such instances. As far
the object really to obtain power in this indirect as his observation extended, he knew that those
manner, to raise money by force of law ? We who had engaged voluntarily in the societies to
heard a great deal the other day about law reli- which they belong; paid more money for the sup-
gión, and compulsory processes !
6 Not a cent
port of public worship than they did in the parish.
would I receive,” said a Rev. gentleman, " unless es in which they reside.
it was given voluntarily!” It will be wholly an: Mr. WEBSTER said, that if any apology were
certain to what society people belong-now they wanted for troubling the committee again, he
must produce a certificate, but this is thought de- thought he might find it in the present attitude of
grading and the parishes are to take all the risk, || this debate." A vote of the convention had decided
and the individual may prove in any way, that he after full and free discussion, that that part of the
belongs to another society. An excellent way to
put an end to law suits, of which we haye heard so
about
much! And what is a public worship At pre- ll for the purpose of maintaining public worship,
sent societies must maintain public teachers of "pi- should not be struck out. He himself had taken
ęty, religion, and morality”--the diffusion of which no part in that discussion. He was content with
is the great object of the constitution, but if half a the constitution, as it was, however, with the laws
dozen meet together to read the bible or a reli- which had been passed under it, and the judicial
gious newspaper, it will be within this resolution. | construction which those laws had received.' But
This may become a fashionable mode of comply- the general principle being thụs settled, the gentle-
3ng with the constitutional provision--it will cer: man from Beverly had proposed a modification,
tainly be a cheap one. How is the constitution 10 which he (Mr. W.) thought, and others thought,
be enforced? What process will lie against these would go to do away that principle altogether and
societies? It is all doubt and perplexity, and for render the whole article a dead letter. The gen-
one law suit we shall have twenty.“ Another cir tleman from Beverly was quite consistent in this.--
eumstance and more than all the rest is, that all He wished the whole article done away. If that
the religious societies will at once be set afloat. purpose had not been effected in one way,
6. Every person shall have full liberty of uniting llquile fair for him to try another way, and to do
himself with what society he may choose, and ev- that indirectly, whicb he had not been able to do
ery person neglecting to unite &c. shall be liable 1) directly. No man saw his object more clearly, or
to be taxed.' Is not this deposing all our religious | followed it more steadily, than the member from
establishments ?. And what privilege will it be to Beverly. But what gave so singular a complexion
tax such as neglect to unite with some society ? to this question, was that the Hon. member from
Who would rush into a multitude of suits to setile Boston, and the Hon. member from Newbaryport,
the question ? We have heard something about both of whom had been advocates for the general
publick excitement, and gentlemen have addressed principle,afforded their support to the present pro-
themselves to our fears. What have we to do with position--called it a compromise, and an amicable
public excitement ? We are sent here to revise arrangement; and another honorable gentleman
the constitution. We are to do our duty, and not had congratulated the house on this happy termin-
propose alterations when we think they are not pe- ation of all our labors on this subject, through the
cessary from any such influence. · We are to con- joint counsels of the member from Beverly, and the
sult our own consciences--our own understand- member from Boston. Now the truth is, that nine
ings not our fears, nor to regard any excitement out of ten of all those menibers who have support-
abroad should it exist. But there is none-We see ed the general principle of the article, who have
nothing of it. This convention would not have stood, shoulder to shoulder in its defence, against
þcen called except on accountof the Senate. There
the powerful attacks of the gentleman from Beyere
1
it was
1
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'MASSACHUSETTS BONVENTION.
1
d
er.
ly; and others, believe that the present happy ar- cuniary expense to maintain religious and sporal
rangement gives up the whole principle, and defeats instructors ? It was too clear to be argued that
all their object. Much bad been said about con- there could be no equality, unless there was a se-
cession and accommodation. But'he trusted gen-curity, that one man, of a given amount of property
tlemen would consider that there were various o- should pay as muchas his neighbor of the same
pinions, and there was to be a consultation of the amount of property. It had been asked by the
sentiments of one side, as well as of the other.- honorable member,' again and again, whether all
Whatever was conceded to one opinio1, was against sects might not raise money in any manner they
the feelings of those who held the other opinion. It chose ? That was not the true question. The
had been supposed to be discreet usually to follow the question is, may they all raise it in whatever amount ,
old maxim, which mightbe found in the manual on the thoy choose ; so that while one half the town or par-
Chairman's table, not to put the child to an enemy ish are compelled to pay at a certain fixed rate;
to be nursed yet, o'n this occasion, it iva's propos- the other half may pay at whatever rate they choose
ed to receive from the member from Beverly, a -this was the real question. In short the effect of
mode of executing and effecting a provision; to the proposition was to put it into the power of half
which provision that gentleman was known to be a dozen rich-men in a parişli, to form one of these
entirely hostile. There might be much of magna- new created societies, and pay à dollar a year,
nimity in this, but he did not see much of common while all the expense of maintainiug public wor-
prudence. He begged, therefore, the membership and I eligious instruction should, in effect, be
from Newburyport to consider, not only to whom thrown on others. He wastherefore decidedly o
but front whơm, he was making these concessions. | posed to the proposition. Either the whole pro-
That Honourable member had decidedly ëxpres- || vision ought to be struck out, or else it ought to
sed his own satisfaction with the third article; as it be made io bear equally. He could not consent to
at present stood, without any amendment what- tax one half of the community fora common object
ever. He professed to be acting, on this occasion and leave it to the discretion of the other half to
from a desire to satisfy, others. He begged the tax themselves, or not, as they might please. If
gentleman would consider, that while some might) religious instruction was to be had, and to be paid
Kejoice jù this course of things; others would la- for, it ought to be equally paid for; and if the gen-
ment it; and it was for his own determinalion, how eral provision could not be retained, except with
far he wonld oppose the steady friends of the main such modifications as destroyed all equality of con-
question, in order to conciliate its steady and tribution, he was in favor of striking it out altogeth-
systematic opposers. There was another part of He was therefore more decidedly hostile to
the speech of the member from Newburyport, on this proposition, than to ihat of the member from
wbich he would remark.--He, (Mr. W) had as- Pittsfield. He would only add, that he had oſten
ked, whether, under this provision, any three per- heard of of the capitulation of those who were
sons, or five persons, uniting together, and paying vanquished, and of the surrender, at discretion, nr.
a shilling, a year would not be a Society, within those who could hold out no longer. He remein
this provision, so as to be exempt from all other beréd however, few cases in which those who had
taxation. The honourable member, in answer, ll struggled successfully, in au important contest, liad
liad said, he doubted, whether such an associa- nevertheless, in the reiry moment of victory, sure
tion would be a Construtional Society, under this rendered al discretion.
amendment and if he doubt whether three on The question was then taken on the resolution,
five perscus would constitute such a society, he and lost-179 to 186.
probably may doubt whether ten, or fifteen, or
The Committee chen rose, reported progress,
twenty would do it-and if he doubt, on that ques- and had leave to sit again.
tron, ſiere, he will doubt, probably, when the ques. At's d'clock the Convention adjourned.
gjon shall be brought before him, as a Judge-and
if the Judge doubt, the Jury will probably doubt
and if Judges and Jaries doubt, every body
may well doubt ;--and then what' becomes of
THURSDAY, DEF. 28.
that certainty and precişeness, which this most The house was called to order a few minutes af.
fortunate: arrangement would introduce into ter 9 o'clock, and attended prayers offered by the
the constitution ? He, (Mr. W.) had contended Rev. Mr. Palfray; after which the journal of yes..
that the present proposition went to establish a terday was read.
great inequality. He had asked; whether under Mr. Varnum's motion to rescind that part of one
this provision, while one man may be compelled to of the rules of the Convention, which makes a
pay ten dollars, another man of equal property, ll question to strike out and iusert indivisible, was
might not be excused by the payment of as many
cents ? To this question the hon. member had gir- Mr. VARNUM observed that he did not know
èn only this answer that the equality to he main- whence this rule came; it might have been one of
tained, was not an equality of expense, but an e- the rules of our 'liouse of Representatives. It
quality in the quantity of religious instruction. He was however attended with inconveniences,
A
was wholly dissatified with this answer. How did different rule was practised upon in both Houses
the hon member expect this instruction to be ob- of Congress, and had been found to be convenient.'
gained? It had been, most forcibly, asked, in an- There the part to strike out is first put ; if it is de-
other place, whether 'we expected angcis to be sent cided in the negative, the other part falls of course;
down to instruct us, or manná to be rained from but if in the attirmative, then the natter offered
heaven for the support of our instructors. Does not by the mover, or any other mailer may be inserted.
the hon. member; and every body else, knoir, that Mr. PICKMAN supported the motion.
the quantity of instrution must be, in every com- The question was then taken and the motion a-
munity, proportionate to the painstaken, and ihe ex- greed to.
pense incurred for al? Vhca tlie constitution speaks Mr. VARNUM said he thought the house had
of a support for teachers of religion and moralny, sufficient experience that nothing was to be gain..
does ji not mean a pecuniary support?: When it ed by having an afternoon session. It would be
peaks of a provision, in this respect, does it not better to prolong the forenoon session to a later
mean a pecuniary provision? When it speaks of the hour. With a view therefore, of having but onio
expiruse to be incurred for such ohjects, does it session a'day, he moved that in future the house
can an expense of prayers and supplications for should meet at 10 o'clock.
he isterposition of miracles, or does it mean a pe- , After a slight debate, it was voted that when
taken up.
MASSACHUSETIS CONVENTION:
209
!
)
ühe house adjourned it should adjourn to_half past 11 ed. The resolutions would make one suppose that
9 o'clock to-niorrow morning.
these principles load never existed in our Consti-
Mr. BOYLS TON, of Princeton, at the sugges- tution. The proposed changes worked no altera-
țion of Mi. ADAMS of Quincy, who was abseni, tion in the substance of the Constitution ; they
offered a resolution proposing to alter the Consti- were too unimportant to be made, and would re-
tution, so that instead of “every denomination of quire a great deal of trouble to explain them to the
Christians” &c. it should read, "all nien, of all people.
religions, demeaning theinselves.peaceably, and as Mr. SULLIVAN, of Boston, was of the sameo-
good subjects of the Commonwealth, shall been pinion. The Constitution was very proper at the
qually under the protection of the law. Referred ime it was made and since the adoption of the
to the committee of the whole on the Declaration Constitution of the U. S. it had received a practi-
of Rights.
cal consti’uction which rendered such alterations
DECLAKATION OF RIGHTS.
unnecessary.
Mr. BLAKE said the alteration would remove
On motion of Mr. DANA, the house went into doubts, if any existed; the revised Constitution of:
Committee of the whole on' tlie, unfinished busi- Pensylvania had adopted alterations of this sort.
ness of yesterday, Mr. Varnum in the Chair,
Mr. PARKER said that if by misfortune we
The question was upon the 4th resolution of the should ever cease to be governed by the Constitu-
Select Committee.
tion of the U. S. we should want our Constitution
Mr. DANA made a 'motion for taking the ques- as it now is.
tion upon the first part of the resolution, excluding Mr. SIBLEY, of Sullon, spoke in favor of the
both provisos. The Chairman thought the ques- amendments
uon was not divisible.
Mr. JACKSON said he had understood from
Mr. HOAR of Concord, said the committee had one of the select committee thatthese amendments
spend a great deal of time, without making any were proposed on the supposition that a new
progress ; in considering proposition after propo- draft of the Constitution would ba 'made. That
sition for a change in the The 3d article. To bring was the case 'in respect to the Constitution of
it to a test, wh her a majority of the committee | Pennsylyania. The alterations were wholly un-
were in favor of making any further alteration in necessary. It would be asking the people, wheth-
that article, he would move that the cominittce er they would consent to any part of the Constitu-
rise, report the progress it had already made, re- tion of the U. S. which was repugnant to our own.
quest to be discharged from the further considera- That mauer was already settled.
tion of the 4th resolution, and ask leave to sit a- Mr. LINCOLN, of Worcester, said a change in
gain on the other resolutions committed to them. the phraseology might cause it to be supposed that
The motion was carried-181 to 120.
a different constitution was necessary, when no al-,
'The Committee reported its disagreement to teration in the sense was intended.
the first resolution of the Select Committee, and Mr. BLAKE cuid the alterations were made,
its agreement to the 2d and 3d, and was discharg- as had been méņtionexi, on the supposition of a new
ed and had leave to sit again in conformity to Mr. draft.
Hoar's motión.
Tlie question was taken upon the resolution and
Leave of absence was given to Messrs. Kendall, decided in the negative.
of Westininster, and Valentine of Hopkinton. The ninth resolution proposing a change, on
The house again resolved itself into a commit- the same ground, in the 28th article was negatired.
tee of the wliole on the Declaration of Rights. The votes adopting the 6th and 7th resolutions
The 5th resolution of the Select Committee, pro- were reconsidered and reversed.
posing a change in the 12th article, so that in crim- Mr. KEYES, of Concord, moved a reconsidera
inal prosecutions every person shall be fully heard ation of the vote adopting the 5th resolution.
in his defence by himself and [instead of or] his Mr HUBBARD inquired whether there had
counsel, was agreed to without debate.
not been a construction that or his counse! in that
The 6th resolution, proposing to alter the 17th part of the Constitution meant and, &c.
article so as to say that arinies ought not to be Mr. PARKER said it was geueraliy permitted
maintajned without the consent of the Legislature, to the prisoner in any criminal case to speak by
And in conformity to the Constitution of the O. S. vas himself, as well as by his counsel, but perhaps in
agreed to without debate.
was not a'riglit; in capital cases it was never re-
The Tth resolution, proposing to alter the 23d. i füsedIt was better in some cases that it should
article so that no subsidy, &c. shall be levied with-bč left to the discretion of the judge There were
out the consent of the people or their Representa- instances of prisoners drawing ap long speeches
tires [instead of Representalizes in the Legislulure] which were mere rhodonontade, having no con.
was adopted without debate.
nexion with the cause and sometimes tending to
The eighth resolution, proposing to alter the their own injury. If the amendřiént is made,
27th article, so that in tinie of peace no soldier the court and jury must hear all this without ang
ought to be quartered &c. and in lime of war such
remedy:
quarters ought not to be made but by the civil mag- Mr. JACKSON said this was a case for legis.
istrale in a manner ordained býlaw [instead of by lative provision. If an instance of injustice should
the Legisluture] was read.
occur, the legislature would make the provisiche,
Mr. WEBSTER said he thought these resolutions, and if found inconvenient, it could be repealed.
ought not to be passed without knowing tire rea- Mr. AUSTIN, of Boston, said he knew there,
sous for the several alterations proposed.
He was great liberality in our courts, but he thought
wished some gentleman of the seleci Committee tlris was a right which ought to be secured in the
would state them.
Constitution. He had rather see the right abused
Mír. BLAKE said the object of thie alteration than have a man sent to the Staie's Prison without
proposed in this and some of the other resolutions, ll being fully delended. He had known cases where
was to do away the repugnance in those parts of some thigs liad escaped the attention of ingenious
our Constitution to the Constitution and Constitu-. || counsel, and the prisoner was acquilled upon the
tional laws of the United States.
relation of facts within liis own kiowiedye.
Nr. WEBSTER said that alterations for that Mr. DANA said the great consplant of judges.
purpose were injudicious. If any part of our Con- and juries was, that too much was said in trials;
stitution was repugnant 10 the Conssitution of the great deal that was irrelevant. No provision 'on
U s. it was rendered invalid by the adoption of this subject ought to be in the Constitution; it
That constitution, and wouid do no harnı if it rentain shoul. De leſt entirely to the legislatuse.
.
210
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
i
1
Mr. DAWES said he had had twenty years ex- pect. One is shocked at the licence of tongue
perience as a judge in the Baston Municipal indulged by defendants, in these times, before the
Court; when prisoners had no counsel, he had courts in England. Great, indeed, must be the
told them they might speak, but that they were not profligacy of manners, where such licentiousness
obliged to ; and sometimes he had told them they finds any countenance in public sentiment. The
had better not. Sometimes the man himself tells Lord Chief Justice of England, is, almost every
a long story which has nothing to do with the evi-month, bearded and insulted in a manner which
dence aod' frequently hurts himsell. Whenever would not for one moment be tolerated by any
they speak after counsel, they generally hurt them- Justice of the Peace in this commonwealth. Our
selves. It was botter to leave the subject to the courts allow every man to say and prove every
discretion of the court.
thing which can aid bis defence ; but neither to
Mr. AUSTIN, of Charlestown, made an appeal state nor to prove what has no connexion with his
to the humanity of gentlemen and hoped it would indictment. He (Mr. W) had noticed lately, that
not be unheard. He was sorry to differ from the in some of the criminal trials in England, the de-
leárned judges who had spoken. He presumed | fendant had narrated personal anecdotes of the
inconveniences would attend giving this right to a Judge, and quoted opinions of the judge's father,
man, to be heard by himself as well as by his coun- and every thing else which he thought would
sel, but it was a fact, that persons accused, were be offensive and insulting to the Judge-all the
borne down by the weight of the government, | Judge did was to admonish him that this would
whetherthey were innocent or guilty. The pub- not help him, and to tell him that he should
.]ıc prosecutor opens upon the prisoner with all bis not allow him to call witnesses to prove such state-
might, as if it was his duty to convict. The jury ments. The object of the defendant, in such
are prejudiced dy it and perhaps the judge. Un-
cases, very often is, to provoke the court to
der ihese circumstances, if a man was not allowed some act of severity, by which he excites clamor
to speak himself, it was an injury. If he was inno- or sympathy, on the groņnd that he has not had a
cent, he must be eloquent. There ought to be a fair trial. With us, such clamor is not easily nor
balance to the weight of the government. It was groundlessly excited. Public opinion upholds the
founded in cruelty, that a man, în cases affeciing authority, and dignity of the courts--the jury, the
his life or character, should not have the power of spectators, the witnesses, the bar-every body
speaking in the last resort. He would not give concurs to signify to the defendant thạt he cannot
the governulent the closing word. There were gain any thing by effrontcry and abuse. He finds
other cases where this privilege was as important a respectful.course best for him. Instead of af-
as it was in capital cases. He should prefer tak- || fronting and defying the judge, he relies upon him,
ing up a little time of the court and jury. A long to give him every advantage of the law, and usu.
time was short when a man's character, as well as ally he so relies with safety. For his (Mr. W's)
when a man's life, was at stake,' In all countries part there was no part of our institutions which he
cases had occurred in which innocent men bad looked on with more respect, when he compared
been pronounced guilty.
them with similar institutions elsewhére; than our
Mr. PRINCE, of Boston, hoped the vote would courts of criminal jurisdiction.
be reconsidered for several reasons. First, he Mr. J. DAVIS, of Boston, said the weight of
was opposed to any amendments not necessary. government was not against the prisoner. The
2d. The legislature had power to make provision il sympathy of the spectators, of the gentlemen of the
on the subject. 3d. Judges are always disposed bar, of the jury, he would not say of the judge, was
to the side of humanity. 41h. Prisoners who l) usually on the side of the accused. Generally, dis:
speak for themselves generally injure their cause. creet counsel wish their client to be silent. He
Mr. PARKER in answer 1.0 Mr. Austin, of had sometimes regretted that prisoners made use of
Charlestown, said the governnient had not the the privilege to their own detrimcnt. · If a prisoner
closing word; the court had it as counsel for the is left to his choice and he employs counsel, he may
prisoner; and they frequently prevented a prison- remain silent without any implication of guilt; byt
er from being punished, where he was actually if he has a right to employ counsel and to speak
guilty, merely for a defect in point of form. In himself, his silence might be interpreted against
Êngland, to which country he presumed the gen- | tim.
tleman alluded,prisoners were heard by themselves, Mr. MARTIN, of Marblehead, gave his reasons.
and perhaps this was the reason of innocent per- for allowing the prisoner to speak himself as well
sons being convicted.
as by his counsel, and among others that Courts
Mr. BLAKE said we felt no disadvantage in were not always upright. In other countries judges
trusting to the discretion of the judge, when we
had been hanged for bribery; and there was no
had judges so virtuous and enlightened, but there reason to think that our judges will be more pure
might be wicked judges hercalier when the privil- than they are in other countries.
ege would be important. In each of the other
Mr. KEYES said, he moved for the reconsider-
states the party accused had the privilege of being ation, supposing the alteration was proposed on thie.
heard by himself and his counsel.
ground of having a new draft of the constitution.
Mr. WEBSTER said, that he had no objection || He hoped that would not be the case, and that no
to this provision, if it were deemed at all neces- trifling amendment would be sent out to the peo-
gary. He should rather think that the provision ple. The practical construction always had been,
as it stands would be construed to allow the de-
and would be, to allow the privilege in.capital tri-
fcndant to be heard by himself and counsel, sub- als. In other cases we ought not to throw open the
ject to the discretion of the court, as to the num- door, to let in great inconvenicnces, when not a
her of counsel. He rose, however, principally for 1 single inconvenience had been pointed out in the
the purpose of adverting to the respectful and dec-
present system.
prous manner in which criminal jurisdiction is ad- Mr. LINCOLN, of Worcester, said this was a
ministered in this country. We nay caort in this question of more than ordinary interest, and if the
respect, a comparison with any country on earth.
amendment should finally prevail, it would throwy
In favor of the defendant, every thing reasonable ll great confusion into our courts of justice. In four:
is aliowed. He is presuined ivnocent-; his guilt llicen years of practice lie had generally been on the
nust be proved, and if a doubt remains that doubt
criminal side of the docket, and could therefore
saves hin. On the other hand, public opinions as speak from experience. He thought that under
well as the courts themselves, demand that his de- our laws nine guilty persons, he helieved he might
ſence should be conducted with decency and res- say ninety nine, eseaped, wliere one who was !!!
1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
211
.
in-
Kocent, suffered; No better expedient could be curity of not being brought to a public trial untilan
devised than this privilege, to give the lower class offence had been charged against him by the grand
of people an opportunity of injuring themselves and inquest of the county, and that counties should not
of insulting the Court. Men in prison sometimes be subject to the expense which would be incurred
spent day after day and week after week in draw-
by trials originating
by information.
ing' up a history of their lives which had nothing to Mr. PÅRKER; of Boston; said it was remarka-
do with the case, and their counsel were often em- ble that when the Constitution was drawn up by
barrassed in endeavoring to keep them still. He persons so careful of the rights of the citizen, nora
asked whether the gentleman froin Charlestown provision was made to guard them in this particu-
would be willing to be degraded; so as to let a weak İar. It would seem frön the nature of the goveru-
and ignorant man follow him; on the supposition ment to be proper that no person should be put up.
that he had not done justice to his cause. It was said on his trial but by an inquest of a jury of his coun-
that we might have wicked men on the bench.
When that case happens, constitutional provisions formation is a great instrument in the hands of the
would be of but little effect.
government
The common law is in force here,
Mr. L. said this was a case, if there were any, in and by it the Attorney and Solicitor General have
which we might have confidence in the Legislature. | authority to file informations in cases under felony.
He never knew of a conviction when the prisoner | Perhaps the court would deterinine that the law
said he had not had a fair trial.
not having been practised was become obsolete..
Mr.SLOCUM spoke against the reconsidera- But in revising the Constitution it might he proper
tior.
to provide for the case. The citizen would be safe
Mr. AUSTIN, of Boston, said the arguments of enough under such officers as we now have, but at
gentlemen in favor of a reconsideration weredirect- ánoilier time the case may be different: A person
fy contrary to each other. Some said the law now vexatiously proceeded against; though acquitted,
allowed the privilege, and some said it would pro- migbt be greatly injured by being brought to trial
duce great inconveniences if it should be allowed. when the interference of the grand Jury would
And to whom would it be inconvenient? Why, to have prevented his being publicly accused. He
the prisoner, who asks that he may be heard in proceeded to state the probable reasons founded
his own defence. Be the evil upon his own head. on some provincial laws to which he referred, why
It was said, the Legislature were competent to the provision was not inadë in the Constitution,and
make suitable provisions ; if so, he was willing to to state more at ļarge the reasoits why it should be
strike out the whole clause ; he would not make a
made now. He hoped the resolution would pass;
hall provision in the constitution. He said there but as he thought a further exception ought to be
had been cases, in which the whole government made, he moved to amend the resolution by adding
armed itself against an individual. He stated cas- the following, viz. "and the cases of convicts in the
es of libel.
State Prison, against whom informations by law
Mr. MORTON, of Dorchester, said there was may be filed, for additional confinement to hard
no country on earth; were eriminal justice was labour.'
more equitably administered than with us. He Mr. FAY, of Cambridge, said that one excep:
described the present practice and pointed out the lion had been discovered, and it might be found
consequences of adopting the amendment. He that there ought to be others. He thought there
hoped the vote would be recousidered.
would be no dlanger in giving the discretion to the
Mr. SIBLEY, of Sutton, said he was gratified Legislature to provide by law for informations in
when the vote was taken. 'If the tiine of courts particular cases. He had no objection to the res-
should be taken up with listening to the stories of olution on general principles, but he objected to
the prisoners, that was better than that the inno- depriving the Legislature of the power of authoriz-
centshould suffer. They were not making a con- ing this course of proceeding, in particular cases
stitution for the Court and the Bar, but for the in which it might be found necessary. He wished
people. He hoped the motion to recousider would therefore, that the resolution might be further
not prevail.
modified.
The question for reconsidering was taken and Mi. ABBOT, of Westford, said that the resolu-
determined in the negative--148 to 154.
tión would take away the power of justices of the
The resolution offered by Mr. Hinckley, propo- peace, to punish petty larcenies.
'sing so to amend the Declaration of Rights that no Mr. HUBBARO, of Boston, read a passage
person shall be liable to be tried for any offence from a statute granting certain powers to justices
for which the punishment is imprisonment, or oth- of the peace which he said were inconsistent with
*erwise ignonrinious, but on the presentment of a this resolution unless it was desirable to repeal the
grand jury of tlie county, was then taken up
law the resolution ought not to be adopted as it
Mr. HINCKLEY expressed his views in favour was. It would take away the jurisdiction given to
òf the resolution. He was on the Select Commit- Justices of the Peace in the cases stated:
tee, to whom was referred the consideration of the The amendment was agreed to-113 10 2.
Declaration of Rights. He thought that the rights The question was then staied on the resolution
of individuals in the point to which this proposition as amended.
relates, were not sufficiently protected, and he sub- Mr. FAY doubted the propriety of adopting
mitted the subject to the consideration of the Se- the resolution as it stood. He thought they ought
lect Committee. Their attention, however, was to have further time and to have it printed, or that
long occupied by the more inportant questions in- it should be comautted to a select committee.
volved in ihe 3d article, and they were not able to Haif thic house did not vote at all upon the anend-
give this proposition that attention which its in- ment, because they did not understand the subject.
portance demanded. He did not know that the He inoved that the resolution should be passed
Convention would think it a matter worthy of their over and the other subjects under consideration of
attention, but he thought it was a defect in the con- the committee taken up-agreed to.
"stitution, that the citizens were not sufficiently l Tlie resolution submitted by Mr. Phelps, fro-
guarded against prosecutions by the government, posing so to amend the Constitution that the estate
He had known an instance, many years ago, in of Ministers of the Gospel shall not be exempt
which the attorney-general having failed to obtain from taxation, provided it exceed one thousand
an indictment by a grand jury against an individ- dollars, was then taken up.
ual, had threatened to proceed by information. He Mr. PHELPS, of Chester, said that he had not
thought that every individual ought to have the se offered the proposition from any disrespect to the
!
A
212
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
beverend clergy: He respected them as highly as Mr. HUBBARD ivas opposed to the anal:Inient
any man. He thought it was not the intention of because he was opposed to the resolution, This
the people in forming the Constitution to give the subject had been for forty years matter of legislaz
legislature power to exempt any class of men from tive provision-It was acted'on every year. Thë
the payment of their share of taxes for che support ministers of the commonwealth have been settled
of government. He quoted a pássage from the with the understanding that their property is not
Constitntion in support of this position. Many to be taxed. Their salaries have for that reason
mnisters within his knowledge were in point of been fixed at a lower rates. If there were any of
property, among the most independent men in so- them who, by great prudence and frugality had
ciety. They own large landed estate, and liad large been able to lay up any thing, he was glad of it.
suius of money wbich they were letting out at in- Mr. WELLÉS of Boston said the Constitution
terest on mortgages. They enjoyed all the priv- bad provided general principles which were suffi-
ileges of government and were entitled to be chos- cient on this subject. He should be sorry to see
en to offices. They enjoyed great perquisites in this order of men introduced into the constitution,
having the right to marry--the fees of which were ás subject to a particular provision: He thought
considerable. It was pot a matter which he felt both the proriso and resolution were entirely, un-
personally concerned įn, but in some towns he necessary. If the exeniption should ever be found
was acquainted with, there were ministers who an evil, ihe legislature would take measures to
were among the most wealthy persons in town. guard against it.
Mr. DANA moved to strike out the proviso. If
Mr. STURGIS stated the usual exemptions of
there was any article on the subject he wonld not the anngal tax act, He thought that the proposi;
provide for any permanent exemption. But he tion went farther than the moyer himself intended.
would add a proviso in favor of ministers of the Mr. THORNDIKE thought the legislature had
Gospel already settled. It was but an act of jus- full power, and that it would be beneath ihe digni.
tice to make such a proviso. But gentlemen af- ty of the Convention to introduce any thing into
terwards settled in the ministry it it was determin- the Constitution which should aim at this useful
ed there should be no exemption would take it into and respected class of men, either to take away,
consideration in making their contracts with their any part of their privileges, or to hold them up to
parishes,
public odium.
Mr: TILLINGHAST,, of Wrentham vas in Mr. TILLINGHAST had not heard any thing
favor of the amendment. He hoped the pro- that satisfied him that this provision ought not to
viso wonld be struck out and that thc article be engrafted into the Constitution. He objected
would be agreed to without any further modifica- not only to the exemption of clergymen, but to the
tion.
property of Colleges and property of all other des-
Mr FREEMAN, of Sandwich; spoke to the criptions. Harvard University had millions of
saine effect: He had heard, deaf as he was; property perhaps, and he thought it ought not te
great dissatisfaction expressed at their privileges be exempt from its share of the public burtủens.
enjoyed by the clergy, and particularly their ex- Mr. SÅVAGE had hoped that gentlemen had
emption from taxation.
learned that the object of the convention was 10
Mr. STURGIS, of Boston, hoped thau neither setulé general principles and not details. The leg-
ihe amendment nor the resolution would prevail islature represents the sovercignty of the country.,
It was a subject verò properly left to the legisla- And we cannot undertake to limit every exercise
ture. The resolution was not only aimed at cler- of its discretion.
gymen, but all others who are exempted by the Mr. PAIGE, öf Hardwick, thought if we would
annual tax laws. He had been in the legislature exercise a little plain common sense, we should
and on the committee for preparing the tax bill, ll throw the whole thing aside, both the amendment
and he had never found any disposition to exempt
and the resolution,
any persons froin taxation, when the tax could he The motion to amend was negatived, and the
properly demanded. The argument of the gen-
question on the resolution was decided in the neg-
tleman from Chester would go against exeinpting aliye 42 to 207.
any persons froin military service. He thought The resolution submitted by Mr. Boylston was
that without going into the argument it was per-
then taken up:
ſectly safe to leave it to the wisdom and discre- Mr. BOYLSTON, of Princeton, said that his
tion of the legislature. He had such a respect for object was entirely in a commercial relation. It
the clergy that he was not disposed to deprive was intended to invile foreigners to come to our
them ofany privilege which they were fairly cn- slores by the offer of equal protection to men of all
titled to.
religious opinions. As ihe Constitution now stands
Mr. BLAKE thought the resolution was alto- the offer of proțection was confined to persons of
géther unnecessary. Every-object of it was fully the Christain religion.
provided for by the Constitution already. If any Mr. HUBBARD read the second article of the
construction of the Constitution gave a discretion Bill of Righis which he thought made the most ani-
to the Legislature to cxempt from taxation this ple provision fortle object.
useful and respectable body of men, he would not Mr. J. DAVIS, of Boston, opposed the resolu-,
abridge that discretion.
tion. He thought it would be better to leave it 10
Mr HOYT of Deerfield was opposed to the a- Legislativé. discretion. Persons of all religions
mendment and to the resolution. The subject have in fact full and equal protection
comes before the legislature every year in the an- Mr. QUINCY objected to the sesolution because
nual tax act. They will never act upon it without it secmed to imply that perso:is of all religions were
due cousideration, and he would leave. it entirely not now under the protection of thie law. He show
to their discretion. He had no doubt there were ed on what grounds he thought the object was
instances in which clergymen owned property fully provided for.
which ought to be taxed.
The resolution was negatived.
Mr. PHELPS was opposed to striking out the On motion of Mr. FAY, the Committee rose,re.
proviso. He did not object to exémpling a limited ported on the business that was finished and asked
amouot of property.
leave to sit again on the resolution proposed by
Mr. SLOCUM considered clergymen as an or-
Mr. Hinckley.
irament to our sucieiy-they spread the gospel far On niotion of Mr. HINCKLEY, the Committee
and wide. ile wanted they should b:ive equal of the whole was discharged from the further con
privileges and equal rights, but be did not want to sideration of the resolution, and it was committed
llave any crivileged oriler.
18 a seledt Ccăruiltes,
j
A
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
1
છે?
ed.
Messrs. Hinckley, l'ay and Morton were ap-
FRIDAY, DEC 30.
gointed on the Committee.
The House met åt half-past 9 o'clock; and at
On motion of Mr. WEBSTER, the first rcsolu- tended prayers offered by the Rev: Mr. Palfrey.
tións relating to the Declaration of Rights, agreed The journal of yesterday was then read.
to in Committee of the whole, was assigned for Mr. FISHER, of Lancaster, was appointed a
half past nine o'clock tomorrow
monitor in the room of Mr. Valentine, who was
Mr. PRINCE moved a resolution providing that | absent on l'eave.
the Constitution should be so altered that in all Ou motion of Mr. DAÍNA, the house went into
prosecutions for libels, the party accused shall have committee of the whole on the reports of the Select
right to produce evidence in support of his alle Còmmittee on the Judiciary Power, Mr. MORTON
gations, and the jurors iù all cases of libel sliall in the chair.
have the right to decide on the laiv, as well on the The Cominittée went into consideration of the
fact.
first resolution of the select committee, which pro-
Committed to the select committee abovė nam- poses to alter the constitution 53 that judicial offi-
cers shall be reinovable by the governor and coun-
Leave of absence was granted to Mr. Crańston; cil upon the address
cil upon the address of two thirds (instead of a ma-
of Marlborough.
jority) of each branch of the legislature, and also
A motion to adjourn to half past three this after- that the legislature shall have power to create a
noon was negatived_-107 to 55.
supreme court of equity and a court of appeals.
The Convention then went into committee of thell Mr. KEYES, of Concord; opposed the first part
whole on the resolution proposing io abolish the of the resolution on the ground" tliat the change
office of Solicitor General, Mr. Fay, of Cambridge;) was unnecessary. He said no evil had arisen from
ir the chair.
the present provision and there was no danger to be
Mr. DANA said it was not a great ohject with
apprehended from trusting to a majority of each
him to abolish this office. There might be e-
branch of the legislature.
ployment found for it.
Mr. RANTOUL, 6F Beverly), moved thắt the
But, there was an ex-
pectation that the offices of government would be committee rise and ask leave to be dišcharged
fron the further consideration of the report of the
reduced. He thought there might be a different ar-
select committee..
rangement of the duties of the state offices. There
Mr. PICKMAN; of Salem, objected to the comma
should be an Attorney General whose duties should
be defined by law. It should bë a part of his duty! mittee, the chairman especially, who was absent
mittee's asking to be discharged. The selectcom.
to be at the seat of government to advise the des
had bestowed a great deal of time and care in mak-
partments of governinent in matters of law. The
constitution also required tlie office of County At- l ing up this report, and it would not be treating
them with respect to refuse it any discussion, Ho
tornies. He thought a part of the duties of gova
ernment would be as well performed by officers
said the provision in the constitution respecting the
of this description:
removal of judicial officers had been complained of
as rentering the judges too dependent upon the
Mr: PARKER thought there were were some legislature. It was proper to have a provision of a
circumstances which the mover of this resolutiou similar náture to meet cases, that were not the
had not attended to. Though the office was pro- pròper subject of impeachment, such as incapacity
vided for in the constitution of 1780 it was not
sup- from natural infirmſties, and he thought thật res
plied until twenty years after. It became then ab: \quiring the consent of two thirds of each branch of
solutely necessary: Great embarrassment would
the legislature, would secure the public in cases of
have ališen if the office could not have been ese manifest incapacity of this kind, and at the same
tablished. It might possibly bę dispensed with tine give greater independence to the judges:
now, but it might become necessary hereafter. It Mr. DANA said the report generally was not a
was convenient if not necessary now. The legis: favorite with hiin, but there was one resolution in
Jature had made such an arrangementóf the courts it which he wished might be adopted, to prevent
for the completion of business as to have two cir- the judges of the supreme court being called upon
cuits going on at the same time. It was extreme-| by the governory &c. to answer questions. He felt
ly convenient and might sometinie's be very im- thật the state was a million of dollars poorer for
portant that one of the law officers should attend the provision of the constitution on this subject. -
these circuits. Much was saved to the community. The departments of goverument should be kept
by the attention, perseverance and ability of the distinct and act on tlieir own responsibility. Judges
gentlemen who perform these duties. County ät- should not be obliged to give opinions without
tornies, thjugh conimonly competent; had no in-
hearing arguments. On account of this resolution
ducément to pay that attention to the business he was opposed to the committees requesting to be
whichi ought to be paid. Much ivas saved hy hav- disclárged.
ing two circuits, and bŷ Having à responsible offi- The question for tising ivas put änd decided in
cer attend the courts.
tlie negative.
Mr. FREEMAN; of Sandwich expressed his The question recurred on the first resolutida.
concurrence in the views of Mi. Parker, and gave
Mr, RICHARDSON, of Hinghań, opposed the
some additional reasons against the resolution. resolution. It was contrary to the principles of our
Mr. HYDE moved that the committee rise. He
governient to require the concurrence of more
thought it too mportant å subject to be acted on
than a majority: If qivo thirds of each house was
in so thin's house.
required to remove a judge, it could never be done;
The motion was negatived:
if he were ever so corrupt: The judges of the
Mr: WARD-spoke against the resolution. He but by this resolution, however imperious the de-
stated some reasons for retaining the office not be- månd fór their removal, it would be next to imposa
fore mentioned.
sible.
Mr: DANA spoke agaih in support of the resa Mr: AUSTIN, of Boston, moved to amend the
blution.
resolution by striking out all the words after.rea
The question was then taken and the resolution
solved, and inserting that it ivás inexpedient to make
agreed io 98 to 171:
any alteration or amendment in that part of the
The committee rose and reported their agree, il constitution that relates to the judiciaiy.
ment to the resolution which was laid on the table, Mr. AUSTIN stated some reasons for his amend.
And the House adjourned;
men ,
28
214
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
Mr. TRASK, of Brimfield, opposed the amend- the powers of
the Legislature. It was, to securi
ment. It was considered a defect in our constitu- the rights of the people. Connecticut had
won, that our judges were l'eft expused to the ca- grotvn wiser and had changed their mode of cona
price of the legislature; on any popular commotion, stituting their judiciary and had adopted the pro:
and it ought to be remedied.
vision now proposed. The effect of a different
The Chairman said the inotion of the gentleman course would be to make judges political men..
was out of order, as its effect would be to strike out They would be judges one day and legislators the
all the other resolutions of the report.
next. There ought to be no limit to the tedure of
Mr: AUSTIN appealed, and the committee de- office, so long as a judge behaves himself well, un
termined that the decision of the chair was not cor- less perliaps in regard to age ; but in that case bis
rect-105 to 109:
salary or part of it at least ought to be continued.
Mr. BLAKE -said he thought it would be no With regard to the next branch of the resolution,
more than civility towards the gentleman from Sa- he said the only object of it was to give the legisla-
lem, the chairman of the select committee, to post- ture power to create an independeni court of Chan-
pone the considération of this subject. He there- cery. The question was not whether it was wise to
fore moved that the committee rise. Negatived, establish such a court, but only to give the Legis.
Messrs. VARNUM and J. PHILLIPS made lature, the power if circumstances shall .render it,
some remarks, respecting the effect of. Mr: Austin's pi'oper and expedient. The same remark would
amendirent on the mode of considering the resolu- apply to the next branch of the resolution respecta
tions in the report Mr. Po proceeded to say that ing a court of Appeals.
he was on the select committee that various pro- Mr. WEBSTER wished to divide the question
positious respecting the removal of judges were of- for striking out. He moved to strike out all but
fered in the committee, to which objections were the first branch of the resolution. He did not
mudè, and that the present proposition was a mat- mean to be understood as objecting to the provis-
ter of compromise. It was agreed that giving to ion in the part hë proposed to strike out.
two thirds of both branches of the legislature the Mr. SAVAGE, of Boston, said he hoped we
power to address the governor would effect the ob-
should have as good provisions in our constitution
ject whenever there should hesuch prominent cause as there were in the constitution of the U. S He
for a l'emoyal' as should satisfy the whole public. hoped we should have better-that we should have
Mr MITCHELL, of. Bridgewater, wished the
the advantage of both modes of removal from ofa
question to be divided . The question then was up-
ficc, by impeachóient, and upon an address of the
on striking out,
Legislatures so as to meet the moral disqualifica-
Mr. PICKMAN made a motion to rise. Wega- tions and tlie natural disqualifications for office. It
tiyed-95 to 197
had been our misfortune in this part of the country,
Mr. HUBBARD; of Boston, said he was unwil- to have a judge impeached in the Senate of
ling to have this subject discussed in the absence the U. S. for crime, and he was afraid his mem-
of the Chalimau of the select comniittee, but as ory served him but too well when he said that the
gentlemen seemed determined to act upon the le- Senate declared him guilty, when he was guilty ona
solution, he could not consent to give a silent vote ly of insanity. He said, a' provision like that in
though he did not expectby.hisarguments to change our constitution would be less dangerous in the
the opinions of any one. He considered the first constitution of the United States. The judges
branch of the first resolution to be of great impor- would not be generally known to the members of
tance. The argument from tlit experience of for Congress, and the popular passions of so great a.;
ty, years, being founded on the powers of the pres- | body as the whole United States would not be ev-
ent eonstitution not having been abused, was not a cry where excited at the same time. There was
fair one. The couscitution was defective in not
no security that a judge would decide a law to be
sufficiently securing the independence of the unconstitutional, when the same Legislature per- .
judges. He asked if a judge was free when the haps which passed the law, may remove him. It.
Legislature might have him removed whenever it ought not to be in the power of the Legislature to
pleased? What would be said of the freedom of the address for any offence. The accused ought io
Legislature if the judges had the power to dissolve be heard in his defence.
it at pleasure? The tenure of office of judges was Mr. SHAW called the attention of the commit-
said to be during good behaviour. Was this the case tee to the object of the provision in the constitution,
when the Legislature' might deprive them of their and the time wlien it was introduced. It is laid
office; although they liad committed no crime?
down as a general principle in the Declaration of
Sufficiënt provision was made in the case of mis-Rights, that the powers of government should be
conduct in the power of impeachment. The con- vested in distinct branches that the legislative,
stitution of the U, S. had been made since our own executive and judiciary departments respectively
and contained no such provision as this. Was shall not exercise the powers of either of the oth-
there ever any complaint on this account ?--On ers, and that it is the right of every citizen to be
the contrary, was there not the greatest respect tried by judges as free, impartial and independent
and confidence reposed in the judges of the Su- as the lot of humanity will admit. The indepen-
nited States ? This
was not reconcileable with the 29th article of the the other has been considered one of the most im-
declaration of rights, which says that it is for the portant political improvements of modern times
security of the rights of the people that the judges This principle is set forth with great force in the de-
of the Supreme Court should hold their offices as fence of the American constitutions. It has been a-
long as they behave themselves well. He wished dopted by all enlightened governmehts in the world:
there might be no clause repugnant to the spirit of The judges are made independent of the crown
the constitution. On the planproposed for the or- and of the people. Is this done in our constitution ?
ganization of the House of Representatives, the Although they hold the office nominally by the ten-
judges would be removeable by a majority of rep- ure of good behaviour; if in another part you say
resentatives of a little more than half of the peo. they shall hold it at the will of the other branch,you
ple. No justice of the peace ivas allowed to be make them dependent, and the first clause becomes
deprived of his office without a hearing; but here nugatory. This constitution was formed as early
the judges of the highest court, might be dismissed as 1780. It was one of the first in the country-it
without an opportunity of saying a word in their was but an experiment. Great Britain was looked
defence. The object of the resolution was not to to as an example. How was this provision intro.
testraix the rights of the people, but to restrain duced into practice in Greet Britain? It was not
1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
213
V
It was
to make them independent of the people, but to {j of the legislative and the executive, or bath unit:
make them independent of the crown.
ed? It was as much to be protected froni ä сombi-
therefore considered a great triumph of the people, nation of two, as from any one. They were bound
às securing their independence of the crown, The to see which department was the most feeble. No
general principle was, that they should be inde- argument was necessary to show that if all were
pendent of the other persons during good behave- combined in one hody the danger would be grent,
jour :-What is meant by good behaviour ? The If two were united they would be formidable. How
faithful discharge of the duties of the office. If not was it in the other departments? The executive js
faithful they were liable to trial by inipeachments. removeable only for misconduct. The members of
But cases night arise when it might be desirable the legislature hold by the same tenure, and these
to renove a judge from office for other causes. are all officers chosen by the people. Is the judic-
He may become incapable of performing the du: iary as well protected ? It is as important as any
ties of ihe office without fault. He inay lose depırtment." The rights of all are dependent on ita
his reason, or be otherwise incapacitated. It is the They have besides an odious duty to perform.
theory of our government that no man shall receive They have to decide controversies between indi:
the emoluments of office, without performing the viduals, by which one party or the other must be
services, though he is incapacitated by the provi- || offended, because one must lose . They have na
dence of God. It is necessary therefore that there conciliatory duties to perform ; it is therefore nec
should be provision for this case. But in cases essary that they should be supported by the consti:
when it applies, the reason will be so manifest as tution. What security have they by the constitu-
to command a general assent. It must be known tion? They told their offices as long they bebare
so as to admit no doubt, if a judge has lost his well and no longer. They are impeached when
reason, or become incapable of performing his guilty of misconduct. It is the duty of the House
duties. As it does not imply misbehaviour, if the of Representatives, constituting the grand inquest
reason cannot be made manifest so as to command of the Commonwealıb to make inquiry-for the
the assent af a great majority of the legislature, of Şenate to try, and if guilty to remove them from
two thirds at least, there can be no necessity for office. There niay be other cases in which they
the removal. By the constitution as it stands, | ought to be removed when not guilty of misconduct
the judges hold their offices at the will of the ma. in office, but for infirmity. Provision is made for
jority of the legislature. He confessed with pride these cases, thatthe two branches of the legislature
and pleasure that the power had not been abused. l concurring with the governor and council, may re.
But it was capabale of being abused.
If so it
move judges froin office. He did not object to this
ought to be guarded against. That could be done provision if it was restrained so as to preserve the
by requiring the voice of two thirds of each branch | independence of the judge. They should be inde
of the legislature. . If unfortunately it should pendent of the legislature and of the governor and
happen that this power should be resorted to for council. But now there is no security. The two othe
purposes which the constitution did not intend to
er departments may remove them without inquiry
gratify the wishes of a party,it would put at risk the -without putting any reason on record. It is in
security of life, liberty and property, intended to be their power to say, that the judges shall no longer
guarded by the independence of the judiciary: 1 hold their offices, and that others, more agreeable
Suppose à party, froin a temparary triumph should I shall be put in their places. He asked, was this
remove judges whep the justice of it is not mans independence? If it was not, the constitution did not
ilest, and the party which makes the removal secure it. It was not for the present time that it
should be put down. Their successors in power was necessary, Perhaps the experience of the
would say it was an act of justice to restore-*those past haçl not shown the want of it. It was enough
who were put out of office.-In such case the to show that the security of every person who has
whole judiciary system would necessarily after one rights may at some future day be dependent on it.
or wo changes, be put enti ely at the will of the It was not taking power from the people it was ap-
prevailing party. He hoped the convention would | portioning and balancing the power of the servants
adopt the remedy which was proposed and which of the people would any one, looking back on
would leave the power of removal to be exercised the past, say that we should not have tinies of great
in cases when it ought to be, and în no other. turbulence-factious leaders, who will have pro-
Mr. FREEMAN, of Sandwich, would haye been jects injurious to the true interešts of the communi,
in favor of the whole resolution iſ that part of it | ty ? Lét such leaders, high in popular favor, carry
relating to the power of establishing a Supreme their measures through the legislature-the execu-
Court of Chancery,
and Court of Appeals, had not tive will partake of the same feeling. Let us have
been struck out. He should have liked this clause a firm judiciary, and they will say that these laws
as well if the committee hjąd proposed to limit the if they encroach upon the rights of the citizen, are
power of the Governor and Council to remove unconstitutional. What will be the consequence ?
judges on the address of the two branches of the With such a legislature, are we not to expect they
legislatuic to specific cases, such as insanity or dis-
ability. But he was willing to adopt the resolụtion judges who thwart their measures that they will
1 for removal of the
now reported. The judges were net now independ- ñieet the concurrence of the chief magistrate, and
ent of the other departments of government. It was that other men will be found to supply their places
our duty to look beyond the present moment, and who will put such a construction on the laws as
provide for cases easily imagigëd, where some secu. they wish. The constitution secures tlie freedom
fity would be necessary,
of the press. But this is an instrument troublesome
Mr. PRESCOTT, of Boston, was sensible of the to demagogues in power, and they might maké
impatience of the conmittee, but he felt it his duty ) laws to destroy it. Án upright judge would declare
not to let the subject pass without giving his voice such a law to tie unconstitutional, and for such a
in support.of the resolution. He had long consid- performance of his duty, he would be put down by
ered this provision one of the most important that the party in power and another put in his place who
could be introduced into the constitution. He re- would be more compliant. He inight suppose more
joiced to say that during the experience of forty probable and more iinporiant cases even than this,
years the different brariches had i'emained inde- He therefore wished some further security for the
pendent of each other, but they were bound to see independence of the judge. The constitution of the
whether their independence was sufficiently secur- United States has wisely provided it. The mode
ed. Was the executive department inder endent
of removal by, address was introduced into the
of the other two? Was the judiciary indcīendent Britislı government for the purpose of restrainint.
will
7
216
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
į
the pawer of the crown, but into ours for another Mr. CUMMINGS, of Salem, rose to give the
purpose to provide for a case which could not reasons why he objected to the report of the Sea,
properly be reached by the power of impeachment. leci Committee, of which he had been a member.
But it ought to be provided lor in a manner consist- He considered that part of the constitution as
ént yvith the indepedence which the constitution perfect. He had heard to day, with surprise, for
in another. part of it demands. The limitation pro- the first time, that judges were not considered suf
posed in the exercise of this peaver is not a novelty. Il ficiently independeut in the experience of forty
It is found in most of the state constitutions. lọ years we had pever found out that they were not
four out of five of them the judges are not remova: independent. Were they pot, for all the purposes
b.e from office but on the address of two thirds of of their judicial functions, so far as they do right,
both branches of the legislature.
fully independent? We had been referred to other
Mr. D. DAVIS, of Boston, thought it absolutely states--but our goverunient was differenįly constie
pecessary that there should be some modification tuted from those of the states alluded to. In those
of the power of removal granted by the Constitu- states there is no Council. In this state they can-
gion. It was the only instance of any government not be renoved on address of the legislature, but
of law or liberty where a man was liable to be tri, with the consent of the Council. Was not this a
ed, condepined and ponished unheard and unseen. sufficient guard? Another part of the constitution
The Constitution contemplates removal of jųdges protects them when accused of crimes. This pro:
from office for two causes only. For crime, by vision is not intended to embrace cases of criniem
impeachment on the grand inquest by the Repre- it is only for cases when they become incompetent
sentatives and for being disqualified to perform to discharge their duties. May not the people, by
the duties of the office hy the visitation of God. a majority, yetermine whether judges are incona
He had known of but one instance of the removal petent? We came to amend the constitution, not
of a judge for this last reason, and he believed is ta: make one. If no inconvenience has been found
was the general opinion that in that instance, thọ in this part, wę qught not to alter it. He did not
Legislature would have done better, if they had think that the proposed amendment would make
waited on Providence a little longer. The power the judges more independent, it would make the
of removal by address, which was intended to ap: people jealous of them. We have the experience
ply only to cases of disqualification by the visita- of forty ycars that they are so, and the evidence of
ţion of God, in fact extended mueh farther, and the framers that they thought they were so; be-
.
was liahle to be abused. It was a defect which cause, in the constitution, that contains this provi-
paght to be remedied. We had the example of sion, they said that ibęy ought to be independent.
the regenénerated and republican state of Connec- Mr LINCOLN was not learful of being charged
ticuț. They had had the experience of a depend- with being a demagogue, or with advocating amca.
ent Judiciary--and in recently establishing their sure that should be suspected to favor demagogues,
constitution they had adopted the same limitation iſ he opposed this amendmevt. He svas entirely
of the power of removal which was proposed satisfied with the constitntion as it was. He had
here.
If the resolution were before the Com- never heard till now, and was now surprised to
mittee in a form which almitted of amend- hear, that there was any want of independence in
ment, he would propose to alter it in such manner the judiciary: He had heard it spoken of in char,
that the officer to be removed should have a right ges, sermons and discourses' in the streets, as one
to be heard. No reason need how he given for of the most valuable features of the constitution
the removal of a judge, but that the Legislature do that it established an independent judiciary. He
pot like him. It was no light thing that an oflice inquired, was it dependent on the legislature ? It
holden on the tenure of good behaviour, inay be ta- was not on the legislature, nor' on the Executive,
ken away with the loss of character which it nat- No judge could be removed but by the concurrent
urally involves, and the person removed not even
act of four co-ordinate branches of the govern-
3xnow the reason of it.
ment. The House of Representatives, th? Senate,
Mr. STARKWEATHER, of Wortlington, had with a different organization fron the House, the
been in favor of the 'motion for striking out the Governor, and the Council. Was it to be suppos:
whole resolution, because he was not sensible that ed that all these should conspire together to re-
it was capable of division, for 'he would rather move a useful judge? But it was argued, that fu;
Jose the whole, than adopt the whole. But it
ture. legislatures might be corrupt. This was a
being divided he was entirely in favor of retaining monstrous supposition He would rather suppose,
the first section and hoped it would not be struck that a judge might be corrụpt. It was more natu-
out. * All the State Constitutions but two contain- ral that a single person should be corrupt, than
ed this limitation of the power of removal.
numerous body "The proposed amendment was
Mr. CHILDS, of Pittsfield, said that before they said to be similar to provisions of other govern:
agreed to adopt this resoluyon, it ought to be showr ments. There was no analogy--because other
that there was a necessity for it. This had not governments are not constituted like vurs. It was
been shown, but on the contrary our judiciary sys- said, that judges have estates in their offices-hę
lem had justly been the hoast of the state. It did not agree to this doctrine. The office was nog
was in violation of an important principle of the made for the judge, nor the judge for the office;
Government that the majority of the Legislature, but both for the people. There was another tena
together with the Governor, should not have the uremhe confidence of the people. It was that
power of removal from oflice. This power was in
which liad hitherto occurred here." Have we then
accordance with the principle of the Bill of Rights: less reason to confide in posterity, than our ancesa
It was imperative ju the advocates of this resolu- tors, had, 10 congde in us?
tion to show that it was necessary to entrench this Mr. WEBSTER submitted, whether lime slıquly
department of the governinent' for its security.-- not be given, until morning, that the chairman of
They hall.not shown it's on the contrwy we were
thie Select Coinmittee, who had been detained by.
ma the 'full' tide of successful experiment. The illness, and who was expected to-moriow, high
founders of the Constitution intended to put wie he present to take a sbare in the debate, especially
judiciary on the footing of the best independence
as the usual hour of adjournment' had arrived, and
consisteit iviti their responsibility. As a proof as they could not go thougl the report, je niored
that they had done thuis lie appealed to the charac-
that the cornnittee rise The motion was negatired
ser of our Judiciary. Who knew what would be
-121 to 214.
the effect iſ they were to obtain any further inde- Mr. FREEMAN, or Sandwich, wished to prç
bendeuse."
sent come views, different from what had been al
.
21
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
yen. He said he had a right to speak of times this as against .common right, as well as repugé
that were past, and of legislatures that liad been. nant to the general principles of the government.
We had seen a disposition in legislatures to exer- The commission of the judge purports to be, on
çise their power over courts, for party purposes.
the face of it, during good behaviour. He has air
The old courts of Common Pleas were aholished, interest, in his office. To give an authority to the
and the Circuit Courts eidablised in their place Legislature. to deprive him of this, without trial or
He believed the change a good one, but asked, |accusation, is manifestly to place the judges at the
were there not other motives than the further- pleasure of the Legislature. The question is not
ance of public justice, for which this change was what the Legislature probably will do, but what
made. He referred to the changes in the courts of they may do. If the judges, in fact, hold their offi-
Sessions. He gave other reasons founded on the ces only' so long as the Legislature see fi, then it
history of the past, for believing that the time would is vain and illusory to say that the judges are inde-
come when it the resolution was not adopted, pendent men, incapable of being influenced byliope,
Judges would be removed for party purposes.
or by lear; but the lepure oftheir office is not inde
Mr. SLOCUMB said that the resolntion did not pendent. The general theory and principle of the
go
far enough. It was a bad rule that did not go government is broken in upoń, by giving the Legis.
both ways. If it required two thirds of the Coun- lature this power. The departments of goverment
çil to make an appointment be should be satisfied: are not equal, co-ordinate and independent, while
Mr. WEBSTER rose to address the chair, but one is thus at the mercy of the others. Whạt
yielded to a motion for the committee to, rise, would be said of a proposition to authorize the
which was negatived--128. to 213.
Governor or Judges. 60. l'emove a sevator or memy-
Mr. HOLMES, of Rachester, said that the gov ber of the house of representatives from office?
ernment of the Commonwealth was composed of And yet, the general theory of the constitution is
three distinct branches. The. Executive, Legisla- to make the judges as independent as members of
tive and Judiciary. The Convention had exiper-
the legislature. I know not whether a greater
sed their unanimous opinion, that these ought to improvement has been made in government than
be kept distinct and independent. But those who to separate the judiciary from the executive and
have opposed the report contended, that the Judi- legislative branches, and to provide for the decisa
ciary is at present independent of the Executive ion of private rights, in a manner wholly opinflu-
and Legislative departinents both together. If he enced by reasons of stale, or considerations of
thought so, he should not have troubled the com- party or of policy. It is the glory of the British
mittee with any remarks. It seemed to him in- constitution to have led in the establishment of this
possible, that it should not, on a monient's consid- most iinportant principle. It did not exist in Eng
ération, appear otherwise. It was a kind of in- | land, before the revolution of 1688, and its intro
dependence he had no idea of. That they could duction has seemed to give a new character to the
not be removed by either the Representatives, or tribunals. It is not necessary to stale the evils,
the Senate, or the Executive, was true; but that which had been experienced, iv that country from
they could be removed by all'united, was as true. dependent and tiine-serving judges. In matiers of
What was tlic Coancil but a creature of the two mere property, in causes of no political or public
branches ? When the two branches of the Generall beariug, tliey might perhaps be safcly trusted; but
Court vote to sweep the bench pi' the Supreme in great questions concerning public liberty, or the
Court, would not the Council be sure to concur? | rights of the subject, they were, in too many cas-
Those bodies were so nearly connected, that they es, not fit to be trusted at all... Wliq would now
would .
cuirrence. When a judi-,
cial officer has been guilty of mal-administration, tion concerning the right of the Habeas Corpus,
he will be removed by impeachment. When it was or the right of suffrage, or the liberty of the press,
necessary to remove a judge for any other cause, or any other subject closely connected with pohti.
he thought that two thirds of both branches would ça). freedom ? Yet on all these subjects, the sentia
always concur in the remoyal. He was, therefore, ments of the English Judges, since the revolution,
in favor of the report.
of Soiners, Holt, Jreby, Jekyl, &c., are, in general,
Mr. DEARBORN, Of Roxbury, renewed: the
favorable to civil liberty, and receive and deserve
motion for the committee to rise. Negatived
great attention, whenever referred to, Indeed,
133 to 176.
Massachusetts herself knows, hy hier own history,
Mr. WEBSTER--Regrets are vain for what is
what is to be expected from dependent judges
past, yet I hardly know how it has been thought to Her own chartop was declared forfeited without a
be a regular course of proceeding, to go into com-
liearing, in a court where such judges sat. , When
mittee on this subject, before taking up the sever-
Charles the second, and his brother after him, at
al propositions wbich now avaittheir finalreadings || !empted the destruction of chartered rights, both
qu the President's table. The consequence is, in the kingdom and out of it, the mode was, by
ihal this question comes on by surprise.
The judgments obtained in the courts. It is well known,
chairman of the select committee is not present-
that after the prosecution against the city of Lon-
many of the most distinguished wenibers of the don was commenced, and while it was pending,
Convention are personally so situated as not lo be
the judges were changed, and Saunders, who had
willing to take part in the debate, and the first
beeis corisulled on the occasion, and bad advised
law vificer of the government, a member of the
the proceeding on we part ol the crown, was
committee, happens at this moment to be in a nade chief justice for the very purpose of giving a
place (the chair of the commitişe of the whole) | judgineat in favor of the crown; his predecessor
which deprives us of the benefit of his observations. | being removed to make room for him. Since the
Under these circumstances, I had boped the con-
revolution of 1688, an entire new character has
mittee would rise. ---It has, however, been deter:
been given to English judicature. The judges.
mined otherwise, and I must therefore beg teir
have been made independent, and the benefit has:
indulgence while I make a few observations.-s libeeu widely and deeply felt: A similar improve-
the constitution now stands, all judges are liable
ment seems to have made its way in Scotland.
Po be removed from ulice, by the Governor, with
Before the union of the kingdoms it cannot be.
the consent of the Council, on the address of the
said that there was any judicial independence in
t.ivo houses of the Legislature. It is not made ne-
Scotland, and the lughest names in Scotiish jurisd.
cessary that the two Houses should give any rea-
prudence have been charged with being under in
ons, for their address, or that the judge should
Auences which could not, in modern times, be 2112
bave ng opportunity to be heard. I look upon
dued.. It is even said, that the practice of entailg
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
218
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did not extensively exist in Scotland, till about the l, the public purse. It fixes the compensatiop of all
time of the reigns of the last princes of the Stu- other departments--it applies, as well as raises, all
art race, and was then introduced to guard against revenue. It is a numerous body, and necessarily
unjust forfeitures. It is strange indeed, that this || carries along with it a great force of public opin-
should happen at so late a period, and that a most ion. Its members are public men, in constant con-
unnatural and artificial state of property should be tact with one another, and with their constituents.
owing to the fear of dependent judicatures. I It would seem to be plain enough, that without
might add here, that the heritable jurisdictions, the constitutional provisions which should be fixed and
greatest almost of all evils, were not abolished in certain, such a department, in case of excitenient,
Scotland, till about the middle of the last century; would be able to encroach on the judiciary -
so slowly does improvement make progress when Therefore is it that a security of judicial independ,
opposed by ignorance, prejudice or interest,
In ence becomes necessary; and the question is
our own country, it was for years a topic of com- whether that independence be at present sufficient,
plaint, before the revolution, that justice was ad- ly secured. The constitution being the supreme
ministered, in some of the colonies, by judges de.
of the colonies, by judges de.. law, it follows, of course, that every act of the leg.
pendent on the British crown, The Declaration islaturé, contrary to that law must be void. But
of Independence itself puts forth this as a promi- who shall decide this question ? Shall the legisla:
pent grievance, among those which justified the ture itself decide it ? " If so, then the constitution
- revolution. The British king it declares, " had ceases to be a legal and becomes only a moral re.
mide judges dependent on his own will aloné,forthe straint on the legislaturé. If ther, and they oply,
tenure oftheir offices.” It wastherefore to be expect- are to judge whetlicr their acts be conſommabletto
ed, that in establishing their own governmenis,this the constitution, then the constitution is admonitory
important point of the independence of the judicial or advisory only; not legally binding; because it
power would be regarded by the states, Some of the construction of it rest wholly with them, their
them have made greater, and others less provision | discretion, in particular cases, may be in favor of
on this subject; the more recent constitutions, I very erroneous and dangerous constructions. Hence
believe, being generally framed with the most and the courts of law necessarily, when the case arises,
best guards for judicial independence. Those must decide upon the validity of particular acts
who oppose any additional secyrity for the tenure These cases are rare, at least in this Common-
of judicial office, have pressed to know what evil wealtb ; but they would probably be less so, if the
has been experienced--what injury has arişen power of the judiciary in this respect were less req
from the constitutionas it is. Perhaps none ;--but pectable than it is. It is the theory and plan of
if evils probably may arise, the question is, wheth- the Constitution to restrain the Legislature, as
er the subject be not so important as to render it well as other departments, and to subject their
prudent to guard against that evil. Ifevil do arise, acis to judicial decision, whenever it appears that
we may
ay be sure it will be a great evil; if this power suclracts infringe constipational limits and without
should happen to be abuşed, it would be most mis- this check, no certain limitation could exist on the
chierous in its consequences. It is not a sufficient exercise of legislative power. The Constitution,
answer to say, that we have, as yet, felt no incan- for example, declares, that the Legislature shall
venience. We are bound to look io probable fu- not suspend the beriefit of the writ of Habeas Core
ture events. We have, too, the experience of oth- pus, except under certain limitations. If a law
er states. Connecticut, having had judges appoint- should happen to be passed, restraining personal
ed annually, from the time of Charles the Second, | liberty, and an individual, feeling oppressed by itz
in the recent alteration of her constitution, has pro- should apply for his Habeas Corpus, must not the
vided that hereafter they shall hold their office dur- Judges decide what is the benefit of Habeas Corpus,
ing good behavior, subject to removal on the ad- intended by the Constitution; what it is to suspend
dress of two thirds of each house of the legislature. it, and whether the act of the Legtslature do, in
In Pennsylvania, the judges may be remoyed;" for the given case, conform to the Constitution? All
any reasonable cause," on the address of two thirds these questions would of course arise. The Judge
of the two houses. In some of the states three is bound by his oath to decide according to law.com
fourths of each house is required. The new con. The Constitution is the supreme law. Any act of
stitution of Maine has a provision, with which the Legislature, therefore, inconsistent with that
should be content; which is, that no judge shall supreme law, must yield to it; and any Judge, see-
be liable to be removed by the legislature till the ing this inconsistency, and yet giving effect to the
matter of his accusation has-been made known to law, would violate both his duty and his oath. But
him, and he hås had an opportunity of being héard it is evident that this power, to be useful, must be
in his defence. This seems no more than common lodged in independent hands. If the Legislature
justice; and yet it is much greater than any secur- may lemove Judges at pleasure, assigning no cause
ity which at present exists in the constitution of for such removal, of course it is not to be expected
this commonwealth. It will be found, if I mistake that they would often find decisions against the
pot, that there are not more than two or three, out constitutionality of their own acts. If the Legisla:
of all the states, which have left the tenure of ju- ture should, unhappily, be in a temper to do a vio-
dicial office at the entire pleasure of the legisla- lent thing, it would probably take care to see that
fure. It cannot be denied, that one great object the Bench of Justice was so constituted as to agree
of written constitutions is to keep the departments with it, in opinion. It is unpleasant to allude to
of government as distinct as possible; aid for this other states, for negative examples; yet if any
purpose to impose restraints. And it is equally one were inclined to the inquiry, it might be
true, that there is no department on which it is prore ſound, that cases had happened, in which laus,
necessary to impose restraints than the legislature. known to be, at best, very questionable, as
The tendency of things is almost always to auginent to their consistency with the Constitution, had
the power of that department, in its relation to the been passed, and at the same session, effectual
judiciary; The judiciary is conposed of few per- measures taken, under the power of renoval by
sons, and those not such as mix habitually in the address, to create a new Bench. Surh a coinci-
pursuits and objects which most engage public meo. dencc night be accidental; but the happening of
They are not, or never should be, politica) men.- such accidents often would destroy the balance of
They have ofien unpleasant duties to perform, and free Governinents. The history of all the States,
their conduct is often liable to be canvassed and I believe, shows the necessity of settled limits to
cen: ured, where their reasons for it are not known, Legislative power. There are reasons, entirely
or cannog be understood. The legislaçure holds consistent with upriglit and patriotio molives;
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
219
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courts
tvhich nevertheless evince the danger of Legisla- (1 that purpose, but he would not deprite the legisla-
tive encroachments. The subject is fully treated ture of the power of creating it again if it should
by Mr. Madison, in some numbers of the Feder- beconiè necessary to have such an officer. He con.
alists which well deserve tlie consideration of the sidered that this would be the effect of the present
Convention. There is nothing after all so impor-]l resolution, and likewise that thë tenure of the office,
tant to individuals as the upright administration of would be altered, so as to give the present incum-
Justice. This comes home to every man; life; lib- || bent aulife estate in it:
érty reputatior, property, all depend on this Mr. DANA said he had no desire to tliminish the
No government does its duty to the people, which number of offices so far as concerned the benefit te
does not make ample and stable provision for the be derived by incumbents, but he thought this one
exercise of this part of its powers.
Nor is it e- unnecessary; and that he should not discharge his
nough, that there are courts which will deal justly duty to his constitnents, without making an attempt
with miere private questions. We look to the jn- to have it abolished. He thought that the County
dicial tribunal for protection against illegal or un- Attornies, living near the spot where an offence.
constitutional acts, from whatever quarter they should be committed; would be able to prepare the
may proceed. The
of law, inde canse better than the Solicitor General living at fil
penent judges, ; and enlightened juries, are ty miles distance; and the state would be saved an
Citadels of popular liberty, as well as temples of annual expense of SZOPÓThat although the office
private justice. The most essential rights connected remained vacant for twenty yoars alter ihe adop-
with political liberty, are there canvassed, discus- tion of the constitution, yet as we had been accus-
šed and maintained; and if it should, at any time tomed to see it filled, the governor änd council
so happen, that these rights should be invaded, would he troubled with solicitations for the appoint-
there is no remedy; but a reliance on the courts to mentafter the office became vacant; although the
protect ard vindicate tliem. There is danger also, office ha
office had now ceased to be necessary. The best
that legislative bodies will sometimes pass laws in- way, therefore, was to abolish it.
terfering with other private rights, besides those M: QUINCY said the office was created by the
connected with political liberty. Individuals are legislature and not by the constitution and the
too apt to apply to the legislative power to inter- governor could no longer appoint; if the statute
fere with private cases, or private property; and should be répealed. The operation of this resola-
such applications sometimes meet with favor and tion would prevent the legislature in all future time
support. There would be no security, if these in- from creating this office. The provisions in the
terferences were not subject to some subsequent constitution were intended to apply; whenever the
constitutional revision, where all parties could be legislature should think it. proper that the office
heard, and justice administered according to stand- should exist.
ing laws. These considerations are among those, Mr: RANTOUL, of Beverlýį said he should have
which, in my opinion, render än independent judi- tio objection to the office being dispensed, with,
ciary equally essential to the preservation of private whenever the arrangement ofthe terms of the courts
rights and public liberty. I lament the necessity o sliould permit. The legislature could judge of this,
deciding this question at the present moment; and and they had the power to pass an act for dispensa
should hope, if such immediate decision were not ing with the office. This resolution would put it:
demanded, that some modification of this Report out of their power during the life of the presentin-:.
might prove acceptable to the committee, since, cumbent, and would prevent their establishing the
in my judgment, some provision, beyond what ex- office in future, when circumstances might make it
ists in the present,constitution, is necessary.. necessarý. The consequence would be, that we
The question was taken on striking out and de- should have two such officers as the Attorney and
cided in the affirmative-210 to 105.
Solicitor General; but the latter under a different
Mr. WEBSTER gave notice that he should
move to insert; in place of the clause struck out à Mr. WALTER; of Boston; saw no force in the :
provision that judicial officers should not be remov- reasons which had been urged for retaining che of-
ed on address until the causes of removal were ficë, and he thought it ought to be abolished.
stated, and such officers heard in their defence. Mr. SULLIVAN, of Boston, said that formerly
A motion was made that the committee rise and
all the judges of the supreme court sat together, on
report progress which was agreed to.
all trials, and the attorney general could always ats
Mr. WEBSTER moved that the Convention tend them. This was the reason that for twenty
should go into committee of the whole on this sub-
years after the adoption of the constitution there
ject on Monday next. Negatived—93 to 124. had been no selicitor general. He was one of the
It was then agreed to go wito commiitee on this committee of the legislature which thought one judge
subject, tomorrow at 11 o'clock.
was sufficient to try questions of fact, and a differ-
At half past three in the afternoon, the House ent organization of the court took place. After the
adjourneti.
alteration was adopted, it became necessary to'
have the different judges hold courts in different
SATURDAY, Dec. 30. counties, at the same time. Each of these judges
The House met at half past 9 o'clock and the
had jurisdiction of all important offences which
journal
of yesterday was read.
were not capital, and it was proper triat an able
Mr. PRINCE, of Boston, offered a resolution lawyer should attend them to take care of the in-
respecting the removal of judicial officers, which
terests of the commonwealth. What, he asked,
was referred to the committee of the whole on the
makes a lawyer? Not merely reading law books
Judiciary, and was afterwards acted upon by that
but reading, accompanied with the extensive pracó !
committee.
tice in courts; and for a public prosecution, prac-
The resolution offered by Mr. DANA for abolisli-
tice in the criminal branch of the law.. This was
ing the office of Solicitor General as soon as it
not like the business of lawyers generally, whiclz
should become vacant, was taken up as reported commonly, relates to cases of property; it was a
by a committee of the whole.
distinct profession County allornies could not be
Mr. S. PORTER, of Hadley, was opposed to
so well qualified for public prosecutions as those ?
taking away from the legislature the power of cre-
who were engaged in a greater variety of criminal
ating an officer of this kind in future, if circumstan-
cases than one county afforded. The duties of the
ces should make it necessary;
attorney and solicitor general.le had reason to
Mr. FREEMAN, of. Sandwich, said he had no
know, were very important and very laborious.---
pbjection to the office being abolished, when the
They had a great deal to do in examining the ac-
legislature should think propór to pass an aet for. counts of vitilesses and other persons, in order to
name.
!
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION
2209
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prevent them from féęcing the commonwealth, in cases which should be exclusively of a political
Thousands of dollars were saved to the state byl character. There were two classes of cases in which
these officers, sums far beyond the annount of their the Legislature may demand the opinion of the
salaries He thought the office of solicitor gener-judges--those of a public, and those of a private
at necessary; but if not; there was no reason for nature. A question may be proposed in thich the
taking away from the legislature the power to cre- wliole political rights of the state are involved. It
ate or abolish the office as circumstances should is impossible that there should be än ärgument, and
require. He would nention another thing. His the individual, most interested will be deprived of
had noticed that laws were frequently passed by à right which is secured to every person by the
the legislature in a forai which reflected disgrace constitution, that of being heard. Questions of fact
upon the commonwealth There ought to be some and of law may be decided without argument and
accurate lawyer appointed, with a salary; to revise without a júry. Tliere was no necessity for such a
them before they are promulgated. He thotiğht | provision. In cases where it is necessary to obtain
that the tivo law officers of the government night à judicial decision, the legislature may by resolve
perform this duty,and that they might also be useful order a suit to bc brought, to try any question of
in giving opinions to thë legislature in relation to law of fact, and have it regularly argued. Why
laws proposed to be passed. He said it would be then should the great principle be violated by tak:
invidious to abolish á párticular office; and to say ing away the right of trial by jury. The power of
that it should continue for tlie life of the present calling on the judges for their opinion may be re-
incumbent would have an uripleasant aspect, which sorted to in times of political exciteinent; with the
be thought the honorable mover of the resolution very view to make them odious, and to effect their
would choose to avoid.
remioval from office. A better opportunity could
The question was taken for the resolution pås- not be afforded to an artful demagogue; for effecting
silig to a second reading; and decided in the mega- the purpose of their removal, than by Irawing from
tive-124 to 129.
ther opinions, opposed 10 the strong popular senti-
Leave of absence was granted to Mr. Lyman, of ment; and subjecting then to popular odium. It
Goshen:
ought not to be in the power of the other depart-
It was proposed to give a first reading to the res- ments to involve the judiciary iri this manner. As.
olutions reported by the comntitree of the whole on the constitution now stands, the judges are bound
the declaration of rights:
to give their opiifions if insisted upon, even in a
· Mr. NICHOLS hoped it would be postponed case where private rights are involved; and with:
till Tuesday, in order that there might be a fuller out the advantage of an argumont. However
house, as the gentleman from Pittsfield intended to great the talents of the judges; however extensive
renew his proposition for the purpose of taking the their learning, they are never safe in deciding with
yeas and nays upon it. No vole was taken on tlie out an argument. Some judges of the greatest
subject:
leņriog make it a rule, that no opinion which they
JÚDICIARY POWER.
llave given without argument, shall be binding up-
on themselves; ör an others, The greatest judges
The convention then went into comniittee of the
hare sometimes changed their opinion on argu-
whole on the unfinished business of yesterday; viź.
ment. They ought always to have the aid of the
the report of the select committee on that part of talents of the bar before pronouncing their opinion;
the constitution relating the JudiciaryMr. MoR || The right of being heard and the practice of ar-
TON in tlie Chair:
guing all questions, lias, more than any thing else
The question was stated on the adoption of the preserved the uniformity of the common laiv. He'
.
other part of Mr. AUSTIN's motion, viz. to insert did not know that there was the slightest objection
in the place of the part of the resolution struck outz || to the proposed amendment. It had the assent of
a resolution that it is not expedient to make any nearlò all, if not all the seleci committee:
Yurther amendment in the part of the constitution The resolution was agreed to by a large majority.
relating to tlre judiciary:
The third resolution which fixes ile tenure of
Mr. WEBSTER moved to amend the amend office of Justices of the Peace and Notaries Public;
ment in conformity with the resolution offered by and provides thiät they may be removed upon the
Mr. Prince, by striking out all after the word re- address of two thirds of the members present
salved, and inserting that it is expedient so to a. of cach house of the legislature; was read.
mend the constitution as to provide ihat no address Mr.STORY moved; for the purpose of conform-
for the removal of any judicial officer shall pass ing the resolation to the first as amended, to a-
either house of the general court until the causes mend by striking out “two thirds”, and inserting
of removal are first stated and entered on the jour- | majority:
nal of the house in which it originated, and a copy Mr. VARNUM, inquired the object of tlie teso-
théreof served on the person in office, that he may lution.
be-adınittted to a hearing in his defence.
Mr. STORY said that doubts had arisen whether
Mr: DANA thought this was an amendment | Justices of the Peace were removeable by address.
founded in substantial justice, and that it would . The first article relating to the jįdiciary power,
g'rike the minds of every gentlemán agreeably.
provides that all judicial officers shall bold their
The amendment was agreed to by a large ma.
offices during good behaviour, except sucha concern-
jority, and the resolution as amended was then a-
ing whom there is different provision made--pro-
greed to:
vided rievertheless;thatthe governor, with consent of
The second resolution that it is inexpedient to
council, may remove them upon the address of
retain that article of the constitution which requires both houses of the legislature. The doubt was
the Judges of the Supreme Court to answer ques- whether the power of removal extended to those
tions proposed to thein by the Goverbor and Coun-
who were excepted in the tenure of the office. It
cil or either branch of the Legislature, was then was uot a doubt of bis own he did not mean to
read:
give an opinion or it, but the committee were of
Mr. STORY, of Salem; said that it was exceed: 1 opinion thai the power ought to exist, and if there ,
logly important, that the judiciary department should
was any doubt it should be removed.
in the language of the constitution, be independent The resolution was agreed to.
of the other departments; and for this purpose, The fifth resolution was read and agreed to.
that it should not be in the power of the latter to The resolution of the same committee on a no
call in the Judges to aid them for any purpose. Ifţion referred to them,
țion referred to them, that it is inexpedient to make
they were liable to be called on, there was ex?reme any provision in the constitutiou against imprisons-
danger that they would be required to give opinions Hovent for delt, was read and agreed to~-297 to %.
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
221
A
The resolution offered by Mr. BEACH for limit- 1wastheir duty to remain in session ifittookøyear and
ing to years the term of office of judges, and a day, until all the subjects were discussed. He
providing that they might be reappointed on the thought if the affairs of the University were prop-
expiration of the term, and that they should not erly managed, and the board of overseers properly
hold their offices after a certain age, was read.. constituted, the subject ought to be examined into
Mr. BEACH wished the subject inight be post- and properly discussed.
poned to Wednesday next. His object was that Mr. TILLINGHAST opposed the postpone-
the first resolution of the Judiciary committee might mens. He said that there was great disatisfaction
be first acted on. If the course taken upon that in the minds of many people. He presumed ifthe
should give him an opportunity, he should consider subject was properly discussed and fully under-
it his duty further te illustrate on the motion. He stood they would be satisfied.
therefore moved that the committee rise. Nega- Mr. CŮMMINGS, and Mr. DEARBON spoke
tived.
against the postponement.
Mr. PRINCE moved to fill the blank with. forty Mr WEBSTER said, that it was new to him
years. Motion was withdrawo, and the resolution that any disatisfaction or any doubts had existed
negatived, four or five only votiug for it.
about the foundation on which the privilcges
The Committee then rose and reported their of the institution rested. It was said the college
proceedings.
was rich. He hoped it was. If there was a
It was ordered that the resolutions which had question about the foundation it ought to be thor-
passed in committee of the whole, should now be oughly considered. It was not beyond the power
read in convention.
of change, like other establishments of the kind.-
The first resolution was read and amended, by He was not apposed to the substance of the mo-
adding the words before each house."
tion of the gentleman from Roxbury... He would
The resolution as amended was passed to a prefer that there should be no conference propos-
second reading, and assigned for Monday next at ed with the government of the college. À com-
ten o'clock
mittee might be appointed to inquire and report,
The 2d, 3d and 4th resolutions were read and The government of the college would of course
passed to a second reading, and also assigoed to give such information as they saw fit.-If there
Monday at ten o'clock.
was any question relative to the charter it
The resolutions relative to Poor Debtors and the would require some study. He would there-
tenure of Judicial Officers, were read and agreed fore move, if the motion for postponement were
to,
withdrawn' that a select committee be appoint-
HARVARD UNIVERSITY.
ed to finquire into the constitutional rights
It was moved that the report of the select com- of the institution; and also to give an account full
mittee relating to Harvard College be now taken as was convenient of the donations to it, by the
up. After some diseustion, Mr. Quincy moved that state and by individuals,
the further consideration of the report should be
Mr. STURGIS withdrew the motion to postpone.
indefinitely postponed. Some discussion arose on The motion was made that a select committee
this motion.
be appointed to inquire into and report upon the
Mir. DEARBORN, of Roxbury, opposed the in- constitution, rights and privileges of the Corpora-
definite postponement. He thought an investiga- tion of Harvard College, and to report also on the
tion of the subject was necessary, and suggested amount of the donations which have been made to
that the best way would be to appoint a committee that corporation by the state.
to meet a. committee of that institution who should Mr. RICHARDSON doubted whether there
make a report.
would be time for a select committee to examine
After some further discussion, Mr. Webster said the subject.
he thought the motion was not in order--and cal- Mr. TILLINGHAST did not think it would take
led for a reference to the journal to ascertain the so much time for a select committee to examine it,
situation of the subject. The journal being read, as it would a committee of the whole.
Mr. Quincy withdrew his motion,
Mr. S. PORTER, of Hadley, thought that the
On motion of Mr. Thorndike the Committee of subject did not belong to the convention, but to the
the whole was discharged from the further con- legislature, and objected to the appointment of a
sideration of the subject--173 to 152.
committee
The resolution was then read, "that it is inexpe- Mr. DANA objected to the commitment. He
dient to make any alteration in that part of the con- presumed that no one would raise a question
stitution relating to the University.'
whether they have he power to interfere in the af-
Mr. MARTIN spoke against the report. fairs of the college, but whether it is expedient.---
Mr. STURGIS moyed an indefinite postpone- In committee of the whole they might probably ar-
rive at all they wanted. He presumed the chair-
Mr STORY hoped the motion would prevail.- man of the select committee would find no difficul-
The Convention had been in session almost seven ty in supporting his report, and that he would satis-
weeks and to all appearance were no nearer the fy the inquiries that would be made in relation to the
end of discussion than when they began; unless affairs of the institution.
the end of time was nearer. Many members were Mr. AUSTIN, of Boston, was surprised at the
siek and
gone home. The subject was opposition to the committee. It could do no harm
fully in the power of the Legislature, and he unless to produce a delay of a few days, but might
thought it would be for the interest of the public do much good. It would settle facts about whicha
that it should remain there.
there was much doubt.
Mr. RICHARDSON opposed the postpone-
Mr. BALDWIN had the most profound venera-
tion for all the officers of this institution, and for
Mr. HUSSEY would be satisfied with the inde- the institution itself But he did not think it stood
knite postponement of the resolution, but if it was on the footing it ought.
to be acted upon, he wished it might be done now. The motion was agreed to-191 to 74.
M. FREEMAN, of Sandwich, was one of the Mr. Dearborn was first named by the Presi-
Select Committee and concúrred in the sentiment dent on the Committee, but he said that on account
of the report, that it was inexpedient to make any of his engagements he could not pay that attention
alteration ; but he was opposed to an indefinite which would be proper for the person standing
postponement, that we were no nearer an end of first on the Committee.
the business was no reason for not discussing it-it The Committee was then appointed as follow's
ment
many had
!
ment.
79
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
Messrs. Webster, Dearborn; Wilde, Tillinghast || mendments to this Constitution shall have
and Dana. Mr. Dana requested to be excused, been adopted by the people, and at their first
and Mr. Saltonstall was appointed in his place.
Mr. Mack, of Middlefield, had leave of absence.
session after every subsequent enumeration
It was ordered, that when the house adjourn it
of the inhabitants by the government of the
adjourn to Monday at 10 o'clock:
United States or of this Commonwealth.
Mr. GRAY, of Boston, offered thë following Ordered to lie on the table.
resolution.
The House adjourned.
Resolved, That the Constitution be so a-
mended,
That the Senate shall consist of thirty
MONDAY, JAN. 1.
one members, sixteen of which to be a quor-
The house met at 10 o'clock and the jourial of
Saturday was read.
ui.
Mr. VARNUM, of Dracut, moved that the com-
That the Commonwealth be divided into mittee for reducing amendments into the form idi.
aboiit forty districts, each of which may send which it shall be proper to submit them to
two members to the House of Representa- time as they shall mature the business before themi.
the people, be instructed to report from time to
tives.
MI: VARNUM said his object was to bave the
That the Governoi only form the Execu- report acted upon from time to time that it may be
tive.
committed to an engrossing committee, in order
That the Council be abolished:
tliat the Convention may not be obliged to wait
That no other amendments to the Con-1) three or four days after all the principles of the a:
mendments shall have been adopted.
stitution are necessary.
The motion was agreed to: Leave of absence
Ordered to lie on the table.
was granted to Messrs. Crawford of Oakham';,
Mr. LYMAN, of Northampton, offered the fol- Woodbridge of Stockbridge, and Thoinas, of Ply:
lowing resolucions.
mouth.
1. Resolved, That it is expedient that the Mr. GREENLEAF, of Qnincy, was put on the.
committee of Accounts in the room of Mr. Valen“,
number of Representatives in the most num-
tine of Hopkinton, absent on leave.
erous branch of Legislature should be reduc- Mr. DANA, of Groton, chairman of a select
ed ; and in order to preserve the principle of committee to whom the subject had been referred;
equality, the Constitution be altered and a- reported that it is proper to alter the constitution
se
male citizen of twenty:
Representatives shall not exceed one for eve-
one years of age and upwards, except paupers who
has resided in any town or district of this com
ty three thousand inhabitants.
monwealth for the space of six calendar months
2. Resolved, That the House of Repre- ) next preceding any election who shall by
senattives shall never consist of more than himself, parent; master, or guardian have paid
one hundred and sixty nor less than one
any pnblic tax, which may have been assessed
hundred and twenty members, and that they tion, shall have a right to vote in the election. of
.
within the cwo years next preceeding such elec:
shall be paid for their travel and attendance all civil officers.
out of the public Treasury.
Mr. SULLIVAN, of Boston, said he had a 'prok
3. Resolved, That the Commonwealth be position to offer respecting the organization of the
divided into small and convenient districts
House of Representatives. Three objects were to
by the Legislature thereof for the choice of subject--that the number of the representatives
be kept in view in forming a plan in relation to this
Representatives--that no town shall be divid- he reduced that the towns retain their corporate
ed for this purpose—that no district shall rights-and that the niembers of the House be paid
contain more than 15,000 inhabitants unless
from the public treasury: It was impossible to re
a town shall contain more than that number, endeavoured to approximate to a reconciliation of
concile these three things entirely; he had nowever
nor less than 6000 inhabitants,except Duke's | them. He therefore moved two resolutions; the first
County, which District shall remain perman- was for proyiding that every town containing 800,
ent and unalterable.
inhabitants should have a right to send one Repre
4. Resolved, That the several towns which sentative, 2400 two Representatives, making 1600
compose any district shall hold their meet-
the mean increasing ratio-that no new town
should be incorporated with the right of sending a
ings for the choice of Representatives in
of Representatives in Representative unless it coulained 1600 inhabitants
their respective, towns and that the Chair- and that no town now baving 800, should lose its
man or senior member of each board of Se- right--if the number of its inhabitants should be
lectmen shall ineet in the most convenient
come less than 800. The second resolution was
town in each district to be designated by the attendance of the members should be defrayed bị
for providing that half the expense for travel and
Legislature on the day succeeding such e- the state treasury and half by the respective towns
lection and compare the votes of the several according to the number from each town. Mr. S.
towns duly certified by the respective town thought the consequence of these regulations
Clerks, and shall give their certificates of the
would be that the number of Representatives
would not usually exceed 250.
choice to the persons having the greatest || SENATE AND HOUSE OF REPRESENTA:
mumber of votes therein.
TIVES.
5. Resolved, That the Legislature shall The Convention proceeded to the consideration
according to a just and equal ratio, apportion
of the resolutions of the select committee on the
among the several districts the number of by a committee of the whole.
Senate and House of Representatives, as reported
Representatives to which each distriet shall
Mr. DEARBORN, of Roxbury, i offered some
be entitled, at their first session aftert hca resolutions which he proposed to substitute for the
1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
223
Įst, %d, 3d, 4th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th and tive business of the coñmonwealth was transfer,
j4th of tbe select committee. Mr. D's. resolu- ed to the general government. It was formerly
tions differed from those he offered at a former provided that the Council should be chosen from
day and which were discussed in committee of the the Senate,reducing the number to thirty-one. He
whole, by proposing that the Senators should be, was therefore opposed to increasing the Senate.
plected for two years, half to be elected in each abave that number, but should be in favor of redu-
year. Mr. D. said he had thought of taking 36 forcing it to twenty-eight or even to fourteen-one
the number of the Senate, as thathad been report- from each county: He saw no reason why four-
ed by the selet.committee, and 144 for the House, teen were not.competent to transact the business
making the House four times as large as the Sen- and also to form a check upon the other House.
ate. He was not tenacious in respect to the num- Though he hąd proposed thirty-one in the resolu-
bers.
tion which be offered on Saturday--he thought
Mr. APTHORP, of Boston moved that the reso- on mature reflection that twenty-eight would be
lutions lie on the table until the Convention had a more suitable number.
acted upon the resolutions of theselect committee. Mr. QUINCY was in favor of the amendment,
Mr. PRESCOTT said, the principles of these because it tended to preserve the constitution were
resolutions, except as to the term of office of the it is.
Senators had been discussed four days in commit- Mr. AUSTIN, of Boston, said that he should vote
tee of the whoie, and he thought it was better to in favor of the amendinent, in the hope that the
take the question upon them at once.
council would be chosen from the senate æs hereto..
Mr. STORY, said it was immaterial whether fore.
they were taken up first or not. He considered Mr. MARTIN was opposed to the amendment.
the proposition of the geatleman from Northamp- He wished to have the number reduced instead of
to (Mr. Lyman) as the only just and correct one increased. The people had expected that the ex-
for forming the House of Representatives, but he penses of the state.I would be reduced--but he
had voted hitherto on the ground that it was im- should like to have gentlemen show one single
possible to carry it. Ifit should be adopted, he thing that had been done to diminish the expenses
should have no difficulty in putting the Senate on of the people,
the basis of population, making the time of holding Mr. PRESCOTT said that some gentlemen were
their office longer than that of the Represeptatives. in favor of increasing, and others of diminishing
But if the report of the select committee is to be the number. The select committee bad adopted
ádopted, concerning the Representatives, he a mean number between what it is by the constitu-
thought there was no other check than taking val- tion, when the counsellors
tion, when the counsellors decline, and what it in
uation for the basis of the Senate.
when they accept. They had agreed on thirty-six,
The question for the resolutions lying on the ta, in the presumption that the council would not be
ble was negatived.
taken from the senate. But, if it should be détern
A motion to commit them to a committee of the mided to take them from the senate, the number
whole, was also negatived, after some discussione would be but two less than under the present con.
100 to 183.
stitution. If it should be left optional with those
A motion being made respecting the further con- elected counsellors whether to aceept or not, they
sideration of them,
would probably resigu when the public business
Mr WEBSTER observed, that as the resoly. required it, and when they saw. fit to vacate their
ţions' contained a new proposition for altering the seats in the senate, twenty-nine would be compea
constitution, the House having refused to commit | tent to perform the duties.
them, by a rule of the Convention it could no lon- fourteen, the number proposed by bis colleague,
ger act upon them.
were enough. He hoped the number would be
The first resolution of the select committee kept at thirty-six, as proposed by the committee.-
which fixes the number of the Senate at thirty | It had been said not to be so sate as constituting a
six, was then taken up.
part of the Board of Overseers of the college. He
Mr DANA moved to strike. out thirty-six,” did not see the force of the argument. The
govo
and insert“ forty." He was in favor of an in- ernor, lieut. governor, counsellors, and senators
crease of the nuinber, because it would better bal- would make forty-five, being one third more than
ance the great number of the other house-be- the permanent members of the board. If the
cause it would enable them to legislate with greater number was increased to forty the restriction of
ease; and because as a constituent part of the Board each district to six, would operate unjustly. He
of overseers, of Harvard College, it would form proceeded to state the operation of the restriction
a better éheck upon the Executive goverminent of
the College and permanent members of the and Essex,
À moment on the counties of Suffolk
Board. Tlie Board of Overseers is composed of Mr. BLAKE hoped the amendment would pre.
fifteen clergymen, and fifteen laymen, who are vail, because he had reason to believe that they
elected, of the Governour, Lieut. Governor, Mem- should fall back to the old principle of choosing
bers of the Council, and Senators, making in all counsellors, and twenty-nine he thought would be
if the Council is fixed at 7, and the Senate at 40, toa, small a number to legislate conveniently.
79. He thought that there ought to be a prepon- Mr. STORY was decidedly, opposed to the as
derating majority in this Board on the part of the mendment 'It appeared to be the necessary and
members who belong to the government of natural result of it to abandon the principle of val.
the commonwealth
vation and population altogether, and to adopt
Mr. GRAY, of Boston, said that although he something intermediate for the benefit of one or
had a great respect for the gentlemen who com- two districts. If the amendment was agreed, to, the
posed the select committee, yet as they were not principle of apportionment, nominally adopted,
agreed in the principles of theirreport, and as gen- would not be adopted in truth. He proceeded to
temen of great talents and experience had ex-, show the inequality which would result from the
pressed their doubt of the expediency of adopt-|| limitation of the number from any one district, if
ing the report, and as it did not agree with his own the amendment were adopted, and replied to the
views in relation to the subject--he felt it his du- argument of the gentleman from Groton, founded
'ty to vote against it. We liad formerly forty Sen- our their duties as members of the Board of Over-
ators;,the separation of Maine from ús had taken
off more than half the territory, and almost half Mr. DANA replied to the argument of the gen.
fle, people,
and he important part of the Legisla. || tleman from Boston, (Mr. Prescott) and contended
seers.
224
1
MASSACHUSETIS CONVENTION. .
was
was
A
that the limitation of the principle would be just in On the principle of population advanced by him,
I its aperation on the large districts. In relation to the town of Hull would be entitled to one repre-
the Board of Overseers, he said it was well known sentative, and the town of Boston to 4000.
that distant members did not constantly attend the Mr. STARKWEATHER, of Worthington,
meetings of the board,
said he
sorry
the amendment
The question was taken on the amendment and proposed at this time, because it embarassed tho
lost-90 to 206.
subject, which before was distinctly understood.-a.
The question recurring on the resolution,
Hie thought the principle of the gentleman from
Mr. LINCOLN, of Worcester, moved to amend Worcester was unsound and that of valuation re,
by adding that the senators should be chosen byl ported by the committee correct, and he hoped
the inhabitants of the districts into which the com- such would be the opinion of the Convention.
monwealth should be divided by the general court, Mr. STORY said there was no question as to his
and that the general court in assigning the number amendment being in order, and it was the only.
of senators should govern theinselves by the pro- fair way of testing the principle of the gentleman
portion of the population in each district accord- from Worcester. If population was the only just
ing to the last preceding census. Mr. &, said he basis of the Senate, as the gentleman contended, it,
did not mean to go into the argument in support of was of the House also. If gentlemen were willing
his amendment. His object was to change the ba- to take it as the basis of both branches he would a.
sis of the senate from valuation to population. It gree with them, making the term of service of the
was his duty to resist the principle adopted by the Senators longer. If the gentleman from Worces.
şelect committee. It was in opposition to a ſunda- ter intended to follow up his principle, he ought'tą,
mental rule for the organization of a representative vote for this amendment to his proposition. Gena
body. It produced great inequality, not only as to tlemen who wished to have the Senate based on
different parts of the commonwealth, but also as to population seemed to want to separate the conside
individuals living in those parts. He presumed eration of the subjects of the Senate and the
would not be contended that the same individual at House. They ought to be considered together.
different times should have different power merely It was a double injustice to take in the H. of R all
from changing his residence; but it was the case advantage of the abandonment of the principle of
that a 'män living in Boston has a greater influence | population, and in the Senate of the adhering to it.
in the government, from the aceumulation of
prop- The question on Mr. Story's amendment to the
erty belonging to others, than he would have in amendment was taken and negatived—146 to 170,
another part of the commonwealth, although he Mr. LELAND, of Roxbury, said that in the
has as good discretion in one part as in another. Examination of this subject he was inclined to the
Suffolk by valuation would be entitled to eight'sen- opinion that ſounding the Senate on population
ators, which is arbitrarily restricted to six. Essex was theoritically correct. But if there was any.
containing a population of upwards of 70,000 was surrender of the principle, property ought to be
entitled to no more than Boston. Middlesex con- called in as an equivalent. But we should also,
taining 52,000 was entitled to but half the number, consider the extent of the power to be delegated:
and was independent of the restriction. Hamp. Checks and balances, it was agreed on all hands.
shire, Hampden and Franklin united, were entitled
were necessary; and if they could not be obtained
to only four, though containing 76,000 inhabitants. otherwise, the principle of apportionment should
He said this was a violation of the principle on be modified. One of the powers of the legislature
which the whole government is based.
was the right of taxing, directly and indirectly
Mr. NICHOLS, of South Reading, said this was without limitation. It inay tax banks, auctioneers,
an important subject, and he hoped the amendment | merchants, manufacturers &c. in such a manner
of the gentleman from Worcester would be adojt-
forcester would be adopt. || that it may bear almost exclusively on one
part
ed. He moved that when the question was taken the country. In respect to the other pouers of
it should be by yeas and nays.
the General Court he could see no difference
Agreed to.
whether the Senate were founded on population
Mr. LAWRENCE, of Groton, said the gentle- or valuation, but in respect to taxes he would ask
man from Worcester seemed to have forgotten that gentlemen whether the members of the legislature
this first resolution was to be taken in connection were interested in proportion to tlie population of
with the resolutions respecting the house of repre- the districts they represented. Mr. L. moved to
sentatives, in which concessions are made to give amenet the amendment of Mr. Lincoln by adding
an equivalent for the excess of power, of some dis- that all monies for the use of the Commonwealth
tricts, in the senate, The whole system ought to shall be raised by an equal assessment upon, the
be taken together.
property and polls of the inhabitants thereof.
Mr. SIBLEY, of Sutton, said he had always Mr.STORY hoped this amendment would be adopl..
been opposed to the lasis of valuation. Gentle- ed. It would enable them to provide that the taxes
men he thought read the constitution wrong. The shall be raised where a corresponding influence is
eonstitution said according to the taxes paid. given.
Public taxes in money were not the only kind of Mr. LEEAND said his object was to have only
taxes. If the value of the time and money spent by one mode of laxation ; that the legislature should
the citizeus of some of the populous counties in e- not raise money by indirect taxes.
quipping themselves for military duty and in per- The question was taken upon Mr. Çeland's moi
forming it, were considered, it would
appear that tion and decided in the negative.
these counties paid as great a tax as Suffolk.
Mr. J. PHILLIPS, of Boston, said he should
Mr. STORY moved to amend the amendment make a few remarks, but with great plainness. He
by adding that the house of representatives should asked gentlemen how tney could justify it to theit
be founded on the same basis of population, and conscience to reject the amendment of the gentle-
then be divided into convenient districts, so that one man from Salem, and this of the gentleman from
representative'should be allowed for 3000 inhabi- Roxbury, and then-rote in favor of the amendment
tants, and no town to be divided for this purpose. of the gentleman, from Worcester, to throw the
Mr. VARNUM thought the propositions respect- merchants of the seaboard into the power of those
ing the senate and house of representatives ought who may have an interest to lay all the burden of
not to be blended.
taxes upon them.
Mr. BLAKE said if the two propositions could Mr. ABBOT, of Westford, moved to reconsider
be united he hoped they would. It would put to the vote by which the amendment offered by Me
the test the plan of the genulegan from Worcester, Story was rejected..
---
+
225
I
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
)
1
and came
Mr. STORY moved that when the question was
TUESDAY, JAN. 2.
taken on the motion to reconsider the vote on the
. The house met at half past 9 o'clock and attend-
amendment offered by him, it should be by yeas
and nays-agreed to.
ed prayers offered by the Rev. Mr. Jeńks. After
which the journal of yesterday. was read.
The question on the motion to reconsider, was
Mr. PRÉSCOTT, of Boston, offered the follow-
decided in the affirmative--yeas 218, nays 148.
Mr. LINCOLN opposed the amendment, be- | ing resolution.
Resolved, That it is expedient so to al-
cause to admit it, would deprive the small towns of
their corporate rights. In becoming incorporated
ter and amend the constitution, as to provide
that after the year 1830 the number of in-
under the obligation of performing certain duties. habitants which shall entitle a town to elect
These rights they had long enjoyed, and they would
not readily relinquish them. The objection to con-
a representative, and the mean increasing
tinuing them in the enjoyment of these rights was
number which shall entitle a town to elect
that the House would be too numerous. This was more than one representative, shall be "pro-
an evil which could not be avoided, and it was at- porționally increased so as that the whole
tended with advantages. It formed a channel of
communication from the government to the people, | 275, and that every tenth year afterwards,
numher of Representatives shall not exceed
and from the people to the government, more per-
fect than if the representation were smaller. He
the said number of inhabitants shall be so in:-
proceeded to answer the objection that the mode creased' as that the whole number of Repre-
was unequal.
sentatives shall never exceed 275 ; provided,
Mr. QUINCY was in favor of the amendment
because he wished to put two propositions togeth-
that no town, which according to the census
er, which were in their nature inseparable. now taking under the authority of the Unit-
Mr. BLAKE was in favor of the amendment and ed States, shall be entitled to elect a repre-
answered the argument of Mr. Lincoln relating to sentative every year, shall ever be deprived
the corporate rights of towns.
of that privilege unless the number of inhabo
Mr. DANA inquired whethier if the amendment
itants therein shall be reduced to less than
to the amendment were adopted, the amendment
offered by Mr. Lincoln would be capable of di-
1200, in which case, such town shall be clas-
vision.
sed and entitled to send a representative
Mr STORY said that the proposition to amend every other year and no town or town and
modified, by the amendment which he had propos. | district, which according to said census shall
ed, would present but a single question. A great
be entitled to 'send a representative every 0-
part of the diſhculty which had arisen here bad
proceeded from keeping separate propositions
thier
year,
shall ever be deprived of that priv-
which, in their nature, were united. The gentle- || ilege.
man from Worcester ought to bring out his whole Ordered to lie on the table.
plan and not argue in favor of part of it, on a prin- The House proceeded to the sonsideration og
ciple which would be opposed to the other part of the resolutions of the select Coinmittee on the Sen-
it. He had supporteel his amendment for fixing ate and House of Representatives, as reported by
the apportionment of representation in the senate a committee of the whole.
- on the basis of population, upon the ground that it The question was upon the 2d resolution, which
was a fundamental principle in relation to govern- proposes that the number of Senatoial districts
ment. If it was a fundamental principle in relation shall never be less than len.
to one house it was in relation to the other. If the Mr. LINCOLN, of Worcester, said the sense of
gentleman insisted upon this principle in relation the house had not been taken distinctly on the pro-
to tho senate, he should follow it up in relation to position he offered yesterday as an amendment to
the house, and not have the argument against the the first resolution. He had hoped that the men-
present organization of the senate, that population bers who were pleased with in, might have the
is the only just basis of representation, and in the privilege of recording their names in favour of it,
organization of the house that the ancient right o but it was embarrased by another amendinent, so
corporations is to outweigh every other principle. ll that the object of the motion' to take the question
He considered the two propositivas as inseparable. by yeas and nays was defeated. He hoped for
The question was takey on the adoption of the the indulgence of the house if he renewed his nos
amendnient to the amendment and agreed to—188 tion with an additional clause as an amendment to
to 138.
the present resolution, for the purpose of taking
The question being stated on the amendnient as the yeas and ways upon it. Mr. "L. then moved to
amended, a division was called for, for the purpose amend the resolution by adding that the number of
of taking the sense of the House on the original Senators to be elected in tbe districts respectively,
amendment.
shall be in proportion to the number of inhabi-
The division was declared by the President to be tants therein-and no connty shall be dividcd in-
not in order ; from this decision there was an ap- to more than two districts nor any two countie's lla
peal.
nited, except Dukes county and Nantucket. Mr.
Mr. DANA, and Mr. Parker of Charlestown, L. said the object of part of the amendment was
spoke against the decision, and Mr. Prescott and io enable the Legislature to divide the counties of
Mr. Webster in favor of it.
Essex and Worcester. En, regard to the other part
Mr. LINCOLN said he considered the decision those who held that valuation was the proper hii
correct, and that he was prepared to vote against .sis for the Senate, would act consite'ntly in voting'
his own proposition.
against the amendinient; but those who admit that
The decision was confirmed by a large majori- | population is the proper basis, if extended to botla
ty
branches, would yield the point if they didnot vote
The question was then taken on the aniendrene in the affirmative.
as amended, and negatived, 31 to 301.
M. DWIGHT, of Springfield, rose on a quesa
The question was then taken on passing the first rion of order. He said this qubject had been fully
res.lution to a second reading and decided in the discussed and decided yesterday.
zifirmative-2101081,
Mr. WEBSTER said.ble cuind see no end of
The House adjourned,
the discussion, according to the present couise of
in
$
226
MASSACHUSETTS KONVENTION.
proceeding. The rule of the Convention required The question was taken on the resolution pas
That every proposition for an amendment to the sing to a second reading and was decided in the afi
constitution should be discussed in committee of firmative.
of the whole, before it was acted upon in conven- Mr. DANA moved to postpone. indefinitely all
tion. He did not recollect that this amendment the resolutions relating to the sevate: Negatived,
had been discussed in committee and he asked for The third resolution proposing that no county
the decision of the chair whether it was in order. shall be divided for the purpose of forming a dis,
The PRESIDENT said that the same objection trict for the election of Senators, was read and
occurred to him yesterday in relation to the propo- passed to a second reading without debate.
sition made by the gentleman from Roxbury (Mr, The fourth resolution was read; which provides
Leland); as that was acted upon, for the sake of that the several counties shall be districts for the
uniformity he should decide the present amend- choice of Senators until the General Court shall
ment to be in order.
alter the same-excepțing that the counties of
Mr. LINCOLN proceeded.' He said there was Hampshire, Hampden and Franklin, shall form
po connection hetween this proposition and the one district for that purpose--and also, that the
one offered yesterday by the gentleman from Sa- counties of Barpstable, Nantucket and Dụķes coun-
lem. (Mr. Story) l'hat gentleman might vote in ty shall together form a district for che purpose,
favor of this and then when the subject of the and that they shall be entitled to the following num-
House of Representatives came before the Con- ber of Senators, viz :Suffolk, six-Essex, six-
vention, he might move to put the representation Middlesex, four--Worcester, five-Hampshire,
in the House upon the same basis. To connect Hampden and Franklin, four-Berkshire, two-
these two propositions was creating confusion. It Plymouth, two-Bristol, two-Norfolk, ihree
forcibly reminded him of what had been done in Barnstable, Nantucket and Dukes County, two.
Congress when two things were connected that had Mr.LINCOLN moved to amend the resolution by
no dependence upon each other. He alluded to
reducing the proportion of Suffolk from six to five,
the bill for the armission of Maine into the union and he moved also that the question on the aạiend-
in conuection with the admission of Missouri. ment should be taken by yeas and nays.
That was a struggle for checks and balances for The motion for taking by yeas and nays was neg.
balancing the power between different parts of the atived, 54 out of 274, vòting in favor of it.
Union. Here ton, was a struggle between popu- Mr. PRESCOTT said it had been determined
lation and wealth. He thought it was better that that the senate shall consist of thirty-six members
wealth should be in the custody of the people, than -that valuation shall form the basis--and tliat no
the people in the custody of wealth. If population district shall have more than six. Suffolk paid one
was proper for the basis of both branches, it was fifth of the taxes, which would entitle it to seven,
proper for one and many gentlemen who would in- besides the tax on hanks; it was understood also,
sist upon corporate rights for the basis of the that these resolutions formed an entire system.
House, if valuation was iaķen for the Senate, || Under these circumstances he trusted the awendo
would yield if population should be substituted for ment would not be adopted.
yaluation.
The amendment was negatived-130 to 180.
Mr. STORY said this was the same proposition The resolution then passed to a second reading.
that was introduced yesterday, and to which he The fifth resolution proposing to substitute the
moved his an;endment. The gentleman's argu- first Wednesday in Japuary” for the last Wednes.
ment was that they were independent propositions, | day in Mạy? wherever it occurs in the 2d section
and it was his (Mr. S.) argument, that they were of the 1st chapter, was read and passed to a se
necessarily connected, and it had been determin-
cond reading without debate.
ed by the house that they'should be connected.---
The sixth resolution providing that the Govern,
Nothing was more fair than this, and he asked, or with four of the Council shall examine the re-
would gentlemen be willing to be led blindfolded turns of the votes for Senators, was read and passed
into the adoption of the gentleman's proposi- to a second reading without debate.
tion respecting the Senate without knowing what The seventh resolution fixing the quorum of the
was to follow with regard to the other House ?- Senate at 19, was read and passed to a second
He was sorry the gentleman had thought proper reading without debate
to renew his motion, but he pledged himself that The eighth resolution was read; which provides
as often as the gentleman should renew it, he (Mr. that every corporale town containing 1200 inhabi-
$.) should move to amend by adding the amend-
tants, and also all corporate lowns or districts now
meut he offered yesterday; and this from neces- united for the purpose of electing a representative,
sity. Mr. S. concluded by moving to amend the and having together a like nunber of inhabitants,
amendment, by adding that the Representatives may elect one representatiye.
should be chosen in convenient districts according Mr. PICKMAN, of Salem, said he was con..
to population.
strained by a sense of duty to express briefly the
Mr. QUINCY rose to a question of order. He objectiods which he had against the system propos-
said that both of these propositions, in principle, led by the select committee and agreed to in com-
had already been acted upon
There was too mittee of the whole, l'especting the organizatlon of
much refinement between the gentleman in the the house of representatives. He considered the
air (Mr. L. in the gallery) and ihe gentleman on system to be unequal and unjust-calculated to pro.
the ground (Mr. S. on the floor.). Between them duce a greater number, generally, in the house,
both the house would be ground between the up- rather than to diminish it calculated to increase
per and the nether millstone.
the expenses of the commonwealth—and a bold,
Mr" WEBSTER said he must renew his objec- dangerous and inexpedient innovation on the pres-
tion-on tbe question of order, on account of the ent system. He would show it to be unequal and
-rule of the Convention,
yojust, not by imaginary cases, but by mathemati-
The PRESIDENT said he should adhere to his cal calculations. He would not pledge-himsell for
decision and wished the gentieman would appeal. perfect accuracy in bis-calculations, but they were
Mr. WEBSTER appealed.
sufficieutly accurate to justify all the inferences that
Some debate ensued, in which Messrs. Lincoln, he sbould make. By ihe report, all the towns in
Story, Morton and Quincy took part.
the commonwealth containing from 1700 10°3400
The question whether the decision of the chair iphabitants, would lose a large proportion of repre--
was correct, was determined in the negative-126 || sentation. "He called the attention of men,bers to
the effect it would produce on the large and re:
$0.150.
I
Toro
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION
1
1
spectable county of Esses. The representation of y house as nothing. The house was often as useful
Salem would be reduced from 13 representatives a check as the senate, and it was of more import-
to 5, of Ipswich from 4 to.1; leaving 2370 inhabi- ance that the house should be established on right
tants uniepresented; Newbury from 6 to 2; Lynn priſciples than thái the senate should. He liad
from 5 to 2, Rowley from 2 to 1; Marblehead from voted for the principle of the senate; but he did not
6 to 2, leaving 2300 inhabitarits unrepresented. It think it of such transcendent importance that every
was unnecessary to go into more particulars. The thing else should be sacrificed for it. He should
result of the whole was; that the representation for prefer that the representatives should be chosen by
72,000 inhabitants would be reduced to 30; while districts, but he considered it impracticable to oh-
Middlesex, with only 52,000 inhabitants, would tain the adoption of that plan, and he was there .
have 32 or 33 'representatives. He asked if this fore willing to adhere to the present system. He
was not unequal and unjust. In addition to this, did not wish for any alteration in the constitutions
Essex would pay for 60 representatives and have except so much as was necessary to put the -senates
30, Middlesex would pay for 38 or 39 and have 33: on its old footing. He considered that it was the
Was not this unequal and unjust ? Essex had fre- || just and proper constructiou of the constitution,
quently in the course of the debates, been put on a that the representatives sliould be paid by the rea
footing with Suffolk. But Essex derived no advan- spective towns. He would not presume that the
tage from the senate being placed on the basis of legislature would do wrong, but if it should pass an
valuation. Deriving no advantage from this prin- | act for paying them out of the pnblic treasury, a
ciple, why should it suffer the diminution in its rep-
house of 500 members would be so unwieldy and
resentation from the other part of the system ? expensive, that the act would soon become unpop.
The county of Plymouth was in a similar situation. ular and be repealed. He was as impartial and iia
With 35,000 inhabitants, it would have 16 repre-dependent on this subject as any man. He had ar-
sentatives, but compared with Middlesex it ought rived to an age when life and its solicitudes must
to have 22. Plymouth sends 2 senators only-it soon pass away. He stood there, inot for himself
gains nothing from the principle of valuation. Why but for posterity. He could truly say, that it had
should this arbitrary rule operate to its disadvan always been his ardent desire to preserve our insti-
tage without giving any equivalent? When gen- tutions and transmit them to posterity unimpaired;
tlemen considered that 72,000 inhabitants would and he begged gentlemen to consider that when
have no more representation than:52,000_that the they stood upon the constitution they stood upon
towns containing between 1200 and 3600 inhabi- strong ground:
tants would suffer a loss in their representation and Mr. PRESCOTT said that the question was
yet have to pay for the representatives of the small, whether any amendment should be made to the
towns which gained in representation, they could present system of representation, for the gentle-
not but admit that the system was unequal and un- man from Salem who opposed the report of the
just. In respect to the size of the house, it would committee, had proposed no new plan. The nun -
be more numerous and more expensive than at pre- . ber of representatives by the last enumeration of
sent; it would amount to 275 or 280; but adnit- | polls was 511, and by the next would be as high as
ting that it would not exceed 260, the members be- 540. What plan had been offered for reducing
ing paid from the treasury of the commonwealth, the number preferable to that proposed by the
the small towns which would pay but a small part Committee ? If it was the opinion of the house that
of the tax for representatives, would be induced al- the number ought to be reduced; and no'other plan
ways to send a representative. There was no rea- was proposed, the report of the committee must
son to suppose the representatives would not attend be taken, however defective. He asked if it was
during the whole session, except such as were pre- practicable to do business with a house of 500, or
vented by the providence of God; making allow- iſ a house wbich might, for a part of the session,
ance for these, from 240 to 250 would usually at- oonsist of that number, and before the close of it
tend. This was about a hundred more than attend- might be reduced to a very small number, or which
ed the vast year. The whole number chosen last might be so fluctuating, that seven or eight whole
year was 195, and the highest number that ever at- quorums of different members might be formed, in
tended was 158. By the proposed system we should the course of a single session, was not a great evil.
have to pay 250 annually, whereas in conimon times It was said that if the members were paid by their
under the present system we should have to pay towns they would not attend, and the house would
for 150. If it was an object to reduce the house pot be too large. But on questions of great inter-
for the facility of transacting business, 150 were e- est they would attend for the purpose of carrying
nough, and all above that number were unneces- particular measures and would then return to their
sary. But the strongest objection was, that 20,000 homes and leave a
homes and leave a very thin house. There were
yoters voting every other year, were put on a dif- many small towns which would send menihers for
ferent footing from the other voters. This was a a-particular purpose, but would not be permanent-
dangerous part of the system. Every one of these ly represented, and it was for the jnterest: of an.
20,000 would be incessantly applying to the legis- that they should be represented, and equally. It
lature 10, be put on the same groupd with those was objected that the plan was unequal. He ask-
who voted every year. He did not believe that led, if any system could be found that should not
there was any man who, if he were asked whether operate unequally. A representative from each
he would pay half a dollar and vote every year, or town would give 290 members; and if the large
a quarter of a dollar and vote every other year, towns had an increased representation, in any prc-
would not reject paying the quarter of a dollar and portion to the number of their inhabitants,jit would
Voting every other year. He would wish to have make a house of more than 400 merübers. There
the right of voting every year considered as the was therefore no other mode of reduction than by
birthright of every citizen. The amendment which uniting the small towns, or perinitling them to
permits 140 small towns to be represented every send alternately. The latter mode seemed 10 be
tenth year, when the valuation was settled, would I preferred by the members from the small towns.-
give an overwhelining majority to decide every The gentleman from Salen had said that the sys-
thing. He had been on the committee of valuation tem operated unequally on counties and town's
and had witnessed the efforts made to put the coun- This was true, but it operated ou none more unfa-
try towns as low as possible, and to throw the bur- | vorably than on the county of Suffolks which ac.
den on the seaports. He was astonished at the cording to the report, by the census of 1810 would
eonduct of some gentlemen from Boston who seem- be entitled to but fourteen members, while her
ed to censider the senate as every thing, and the proportion, acco: ding to her population; compar--
2
228
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
$
1
ed to that of the whole state, would be twenty-one. || pressly to provide that the attendance of
Essex would have 32-proportion 38
members of the House of Representatives
Middlesex
33.
28
Worcester,
shall in all cases be paid by their respective
38.
.35
Hampshire
:44.
41 towns; and that it'is not expedient to make
Plymouth..
13..
.18 any other altération in this part of the Con-
Bristol...
13...
15 stitution.
Bershireisen. .22
.......18
go into committee
Norfolk vill neither gain nor lose.
of the whole on this resolution, Mr. Dwight moved
It was true there was an inequality, but not so that the report of the committee be laid on the ta-
great as to be of much importance. 'He did not ble.'
agree with his friend froin Salem, that what was
Mr. BOND opposed the motion because he wish:
granted in relation to the Senate was of no conse- ed first to try the question, whether the representa:
quence. It was some equivalent for what was lost tives should be chosen by districts which he con.
in the house. It made no difference that they are
.
to come from a particular county, since it is the Mr. LAWRENCE was in favor of the report,
same interest that they represent. If the addition-
and for that reason opposed to the motion,
al senators came from Essex. instead of Suffolk he
Mr. WEBSTER suggested that as the sense of
should be as well'satisfied. The expense of the
There
house would hy this plan be reduced.
the houso could not be taken in Convention on the
would generally be no more than 200 members
other projects, it would be best to go into commit-
tee of the whole and refer; to that committee all ::
present and there would be a degree of uniformity
in the house. He had proposed a limitation of the
the projects which have been offered.
He was iu
favour of the report if the House generally approva
number which he hoped would be adopted. Al-
ed of it. But he should not be in favor of it if he
though the small towns will not be entitled to a
should find there was any strong local opposition to
representative every year, they will have their
full proportion of influence. It was for them to
it. He tirought they ought to go into committee
choose whether they would be represented alter-
of the whole, and affirm or negative the different
nately, or would have the power of uniting for the
propositions offered in their proper order. There
purpose of being represented permanently.
were tivo.causes for altering the constitutioncmone :
He
was sorry they had not aceepted the proposition
that the house was too large, and the other that
for authorizing them to unite for this purpose.-
there was danger it would be increased by adopting
If any member from a small town would now move
the system of paying out of the treasury, which
to insert that proposition, be presumed there would
would bring up a body of more than 500 The
be no objection to adopting it.
natural order would be to take up first the question,
Mr. DWIGHT of Springfield, said that the a-
whether the present system shall be retained with
endment agreed to in committee of the whole, | paid by the towns. If that was rejected, and by
an express provision that the members shall be
anthorizing all the small towns to send a represen- vote of the small towns we should bear no more
lative on every year of taking the general valua-
complaint ofthe disfranchisement ofthe smalltowns.
tion, appeared to be a departure from the princi-
He wished to bave the recorded sense of the townsg.
ple of the report. He could see no reason for it.
whether they would accept the right of permanent
It appeared to him that there was the same reason
on the year of the valuation as on every other year,
representation, on the condition of paying their
for adhering to a principle which would give some-
own members. If they would not, the house would
thing like equality to the representation from dif-
be ready to proceed with a firm step in reducing
fereut parts of the commonwealth. It was per-
the number in the best mode that should present
fecily obvious that on this year the small towns
itself. Next would come the question of districta
would get double the iniluence they have a right
ing, and if thatshould be negatived, the house would
to-; and by exercising this influence at each re-
be fully prepared to act on the report.
Mr. SIBLEY, of Sutton, was opposed to going
turn of the general valuation they will have a con-
into committee.
trol over our taxes for the whole time. The prin-
Mr. BLAKE was . sarisfied with , the arguments
cipal objection to the present system was that the
body is too numerous. But we should look only
which had been offered in favor of the report. He
al practical results. It will be found that in con-
thonght that little attention should be paid to ob-
jections made to it, wbich were not accompanied
sequence of the check from requiring the payment
of members by the towns, the number had been so
with some plan for avoiding them.
reduced that it has not been, in fact, so large as
Mr. MARTIN was opposed to the report of the
seleci committee, and in favor of the proposition
this report will make it. The average number of
meüibers attending for several years is not more
for requiring towns to pay their own members.:
than 150. The operation of the report, then, will
Mr. JACKSON, of Boston, said he understood
be to make the house more unwieldy and expen-
that the gentleman who made this motion prefer-
sive than the old system. He was in favor of dis-
red the system of districts. The gentleman front
Northampton had offered some resolution propos-
tricting. As far as he understood the views of
gentlemen, they thought that this would be the ling this mode. : He thought that these resolutions
bestsysiein if it could be carried.
might now be taken up as a substitute for the res-
Why should
we distrust the good sense of the people of the
olution before the House, and render the present
inotion upnécessary.
Commonwealth and refuse to give a chance for a
Mr. DWIGHT withdrew his motion for laying
system which is ackniiwledged to be the most per-
the resolutien on the table.
fect, froin the apprehension that the people will
He wished at least that the
not approve of it.
M: LYMAN, of Northamptons moved to a-
sense of the House night be taken upon the ex-
mend by striking out the resolution before the
pediency of adopting this principle, aird also on
House, and substituting the resolutions, submitted
the question of retaining the present system so
by him on Saturday last for dividing the com-
modified as to expressly, take away the right of
monwealth into districts. .
paying ide menibers oui of the puýlic treasury.com
The motion was decided by the President not
He wished first to take the latter qüestion, and for
to be in order, the resolutions not having bees
discussed in comunittee of the whole.
thatpurpose, he offered the following resolution:
* That it is proper and expedient so far
Mr. LINCOLN, moved to amend the eightlı
Lp alter and aurend the Constitution, as ex-
resolution by adding a proviso " that every town
shall have a right to one representative, This
1
1
MÁSSACHUSETTS CONVENTION
929
1
hiction was decided to be not in order on the they were elected, they go home and paỹ no attens
ground that it proposed
a substantial amendmenttotion to the public interest
. Do we want to have
the constitution, on a principle which had not been men to come here as representatives of the corpo:
discussed in committee of the whole.
rations only-or as men of enlarged vieive to legis-
Mr. BANISTER, of Newburyport, offered for ate for the whole commonwealth? The gentleman
consideration a proposition as a substitute for that from Salem had exposed the inequalities of thë
of the select cominittee That every town of a thous- system reported by the committee in a manner so
and inhabitants should have one representative, unanswerable that he would say nothing upon that
that 2000 should be the mean increasing number, subject, but would leave it upon his argument.-
that every towi wliich now has a representative; As to the argument founded on the corporate rights
shall still be entitled to one, and that the attendance of towns, there was nothing in it. They ä have right
should be paid by the towns-a new apportionment to have a constitution as good as they can make it,
to be made after each census:
but it is not a corporate right, but à right of individ
Mr. JACKSON moved tomiñend by striking out uals. The burdens imposed on towns to make
the resolution, and inserting that which had been roads, support schools, &c. are for their own ben-
offered by Mr. Lyman, and discussed in committee | efit, and it they are not fully compensated by the
of the whole soine days since. It contained the advantages which they exclusively derive, they have
general principle that representatives should be the furtherequivalent that the same hurdens are im-
chosen in districts without going into details Rep- posed on all other towns. But supposė they have
résentatives not to exceed one for 3000 inhabitants. burdens in consequence of their corporate există
These could be added by separate resolutions if the ence, läving a right to send a representative here,
general principle should be agreed to.
will not make them less ; he cannot take them off.
Mr. VARNUM called for a division so as to. He did not like the proposition in the report so well
take the question first on striking out the resollition as the present constitution. . It would give a larger
of the select committee.
house, cost more money, and do less good. He
Mr. JACKSON said that he had not heard, and thought it was not the best that could be adopted;
he did not wish to know what would be the effect and he did not see any serious objection to that of
of any proposition upon the political parties. He the gentleman from Northampton. If adopted
thought that a very inimportant consideration. He here, and the majority of the people should be in
looked at the question only as it regarded the con- favor of it, he thought it would be the best system.
struction of ihe House for answering the purposes If the people should reject it, we should be in the
for which it is principally intended. few of the same situation in which we now are. He hoped
objects for which the house is constituted relate to that modified as it might be, it would pass, and the
politics. The principal object is to make laws. As convention could then go on to arrange the dis-
fiis. whole life had been devoted to the considera- | tricts. Part of the plan was that the districts should
tion of thë laws, it was with ä view solely to this remain forever unalterable. There would then be
object, that he felt interested in the question. He no change for party purposes, and the apportion-
did not care whether a larger or a smaller number ment of representatives, being matter of figures;
cams from Suffolk or from Berkshirebut he did would not be liable to abuse.
care whether the house was so constituted as to Mr. STORY said that after the able and unans.
make wise and equal laws. He wanted; and the werable argument of the gentleman wholast spoke;
people want a legislature that will be able to look he would say nothing in support of the proposition,
to the state of the Commonwealth--to make such but he thought that the proper and necessary
laws as are suitable to regulate the intercourse be- course before acting on the report of the select
tween man and inan, and to provide for the good || commitiee was to act on all the other propositions,
order and welfare of society, as well as to provide He hoped therefore that the gentleman from Dra-
for the petty interests and local concerns of partic: cut would withdraw his call fór ä division of the moo
olar corporations. If we could have a House of tion:
Representatives of eighty, a hundred, or a hundred Mr. VARNUM thought that the able argument
and liventy members, with a Senate of thirty six, of the gentleman from Boston, went in favour of
it would constitute a Legislature, he thought; more the proposition of the select committee, as fully as
suitable for these purposes than a larger body.- it did in favor of that of the gentleman froń North-
One ohject was to reduce the House of Represen- ampton. The report of the select comunittee was
tatives--another, that the people of different parts | kept 30 continually buried in smoke, that it was
of the Commonwealth should enjoy an equal influ- impossible to get sight of it. He had made the mao
ence.--The proposition of the gentleman from tion to divide for the purpose of coming to the
Northampton would effect these ohjects. It has question on the resolution of the select committee
the merit of perfect equality~it would give to every those who were infavor of it in preference to all
voter the same influence in the election of mem- ot:er propositions would vote against striking it
hers, and the same influence in the house. The out. He thought it was time to come to this ques-
gentleman from Salem had clearly and forcibly || tion, and he could not therefore withdraw his mos
pointed out some striking inequalities in the report.
It was besides liable to the objections that the small Mr AUSTIN, of Charlestown, was in favor of
towns were to be half the time deprived of their thë motion for the reasons urged by the gentleman
l'epresentation, and that it still contained a number from Boston. He proceeded to support the mo.
larger than could deliberate clearly and coolly. If tion on other grounds.
the number was smaller, they would all attend be- Mr. JACKSON said that if the motion should
cause their absence would be noticed, aud witli one be carried to strike out; and the proposition for
body sitting all the time,the business would be com districting should not pravail, any one who voted
pleted in shorter sessions. It was said there were for striking out, could move to reconsider the yote
prejudices against this mode. He had too good || for striking out so as to re-insert the resolution of
an opinion of the people of this Commonwealih to the Select Committee.
believe they would reject a system that was most The question on striking out the resolution of
suitable, and that was perfectly just and equal for the Select Committee was taken and decided in
these prejudices. There might be some opposed
the negative--35 10 249.
to it from private motives, but ninety-nine in a The amendment made in committee of the
hundred would have none such. By the present whole by inserting the word districts was agreed to.
system men are chosen for local purposes and as The question was then stated on passing the res-
soon as they get the measure through for which olution,
tion.
1
30
230
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
!
3
Mr. MARTIN spoke against it.
Bond, G. Bond, Bourne, Boylston, Boyse, Brain-
Mr. HOYT, of Deerfield, had been uniformly | hall,Brownell, Ş.Bullock, Bugbee, Cary,Chamber
in favor of districting, but he was satisfied that lain, Chandler, M.Chapin, Child, J.Y. Clark, Col-
the House would not agree to it, and that the lamore, Coukey, Cutler, Daggett, D. Dana,N. M.
people would not sanction it. He saw no other Davis, J: Davis, R. Dean, Dearborn, Ę. Dicken-
way of reducing the number of the House than to son, Dimmick, Dunbar, Dwight, B. Ellis, Endi
accept the report of the committee. He did not
coti, Estabrook, Farwell, Fay; Fearing, Felt, S.
expect it would reduce the expenses of the House Field, R. Field, Fish, Fiske; Fobes, Fowle, Fax,
which would be a great object. He had seen Frazer, R. Freeman, Frink, Gale, Ż. Gates, God
three or four hundred members present at the be- frey, Gray, E. Green, Gregory, Grosvenor, B.
ginning of a session, and before the session expir- Hall
, N. Hall, Harding, Heard, Hincxley, S.
ed the House was obliged to send out precepts in- Hoar, Howard, S. Hubbard, E. Hubbard, w.
to the neighbouring towns to keep a quorum. Hunt, C. Jackson, Kempton, Kent, James Keyes,
Mr. BOND was opposed to the report because John Keyes, B. Knight, Lathrop, Leach, J. Lin-
it did not reduce the House of Representatives so coln, L. Lincoln, M. Little, J. Little, John Locke,
low as it would commonly he under the present Longley, Low, J Lyman, Martin, May, Melville,
Constitution, and for this reason he should vote a- D. Mitchell, Nelson, J. Newhall, J. Noyes, Ņ.
gainst the resolution.
Noyes, Olney; J. A. Parker, J. Parker, Parrott;
Mr. J. LITTLE, of Newbury called for the Pearce, Pickman, Pierson, Pikc, Pope, A. Porter,
yeas and nays on the question. Agreed to. S. Pratt, J. Prince, or Boston, Quincy, Rider, A.
The question was then taken and the resolution Richardson, J. Richardson, Joseph Richardson;
pässe io a second reading by the following vote. J. Russell, S. Russell, Saltonstall, Sanger, Saw-
YEAS_Messr's Abbot, Aldrich, E Allen, J. yer, Shaw, Shepherd, Sisson, A. Smith, Jonathan
Allen, P. Allen, Alvord, Apthorp, Arms, Atherton, || Story, Sturgis, A. Thompson, Z. Thompson,
J. T. Austin, I. Baldwin, T. Baldwin, Bangs, S Thorndike, Thurber, C. Tilden, Tillinghast, Ty-
"Barker of Methuen, S. Barker of Andover,'G. ler, N. Wade, Warren, Waterman, S. Ą. Wells;
Bartlett, E. Bartlett, Barrett, Bassett, Billings, G. Wheeler, Whittemoro, C. White, 'A. Whitman's
Blake, J. Blake, Blanchara, A. Bliss, Bowdoin, W. Whipple, Whiton, Wilde, Eliphalet Williams
Bowman, J. Bijydên, S. Boyden, Brooks, Burts, S. Willard, Wingate, 147.
E.Chapin, Cheney, Clark of Ward, Clark of Wal- Leave of absence was granted 10 Messrs. Davi
tham, Cleáveland, Cobh, Cook, Coolidge, Conant, son of Gloucester, Walker of Norton, Harding of
Cotton, Crandon, Crehöre,Crocker, C.Cummings, Harvard, and Leonard of Sturbridge.
S Dana, D. Davis, Dawes, B. Dean, Dewėy, E. Al 3 o'clock, the House adjourned:
Doane, J. Doane, J. C. Doane, Dodge, S.Draper,
J.Draper, A. Draper, Drury, W. Dution, D. Dut-
ton, Eames, Edwards, Ellis, R. Eels, G. Eels,
WEDNESDAY, JAN. .
Evans, N. Fisher, J. Fisher, Flint, Foote, For- The house met at half past 9 o'clock, and attend
ward, Foster, Fowler, J. Freeman, S. Freeman, ed prayers offered by the Rev. Mr. Palfrey; aſter
Freñch, 'H. Gardner, A. Gates, Gibbs, Gifford, which the journal of yesterday was read.
J.Green, Greenleaf, Gurney, E. Hale, N. Hale, D. SENATE AND HOUSE OF REPRESENTA.
Hale, A. Hầmilton, H. Hamilton, W. Harris, T.
TIVES.
Harris, jr. Hazard, Hearsey, Hedge, Hill, Hills,
Hoar of Concord, Hodges, Holden, A.Holmes, Hope unfinished business of yesterday.
The house proceeded to the consideration of the
*kins, Houghton, N. Houghton, Howes, S.S. How
The 9th resolution of the select committee on the
and, Hoyt, Hull, Humphrey, W. Hunewell,J.Hune. 1 Senate and House of Representatives, as reported
well, Hussey, C. Hyde, J. Jackson, A. Jewett, J. by a committee of the whole, which provides that
Jewelt, Jones, Judd, Kasson, Kellogg, Kimball, E. 2400 inbabitants shall be the mean increasing num.
King, Knowles, Knowltoa, L. Lawrence, B. Law- ber which shall entitle a town to an additional rep.,
rence, Leland, L. Leonard, N. Leonard, Z. L.
resentative, was read.
Leonard, Lester, Lewis, H. Lincoln, T. Lincoln, Mr.
of West Springfield, moved to a.
Joseph Locke, Lovejoy., Mäck, Makepeace, Mars-mend the resolution so as io make 2000 the mean
ton, T. Mason, Messinger, Miller, Morse, P. increasing number.
Morton, Ezra Mudge, A. T. Newhall, Nick- Mr. FREEMAN, of Boston, opposed the a.
'erson, Nichols, Oldhan, T. Paige, L. M.
Parker, Parkes, Perham, Pickens, Picket, A.
mendment, as making the ratio of increase unjust,
Pierce, L.Piercé, V. Pierce, E. Phelps, M.Phelps,
The amendment was negatived, and the resolu-
tion passed to a second reading.
J. Phillips, W. Phillips, Phipps, Pomeroy, "A. The 10th resolution, which provides that each
Porter, S. Porter, Powers, B. Pratt, N. Pratt, S.
Prentiss, Prescott, Rantoul, J. Reed, S. Reed,
town containing less than 1200 inhabitants and also
all the towns and districts now united for the pur-
Reeves, Reynolds, Rice, J. Richards, N. Rich-
ards, Robbins, Root, B. Russell, D. Russell
, A.poser of choosing a representative having together
Sampson, E. Sàmpson, Sargent, Saunders, Saun-
less than 1200 inhabitants, shall be entitled to elect
a representative every other year, was read and
derson, Savage, Scott, Sibley, B. Smith, O. Smith, passed to a second reading without debate.
Sprague, Spuřr, Starkweather, Stearns, F. Steb- The 11th resolution which makes it the duty of
ins, L. Stebbins, Stickney, Stone of Hardwicke,
Stone of Stow and Boxborougħ, Joseph Story, now taking under the authority of the U. States
the legislature at their first session after the census
Stowell,
R. Sullivan, W. Sullivan, Taft, Talbot,
Taylor, Thomas, 1. Thompson, J. Tildén, Tink-
shall be completed, to class the towns in each
county containing less than 1200 inhabitants, for
ham, Torrey, Townsend, Trask, Trowbridge, Irull
,
Tuckerman, Tufts, Turner, Varnum, S. Wade,
the purpose of choosing representatives, was read,
Mr. LAWRENCE, of Groton, moved to amend
Wakefield, L. Walker, Walter, Walton, Ward, by inserting after the word “ completed,” these
Ware, R. Webster, D. Webster, Webber, Wells, | Words, viz: “ And after every subsequent census
J. Wells, A. Whitney, J. Whitney, W. Whitney, taken as aforesaid " Mr. L. said his object was to
S. White, J. Whitman. D. Whitman, E. Whipple, remove any ambiguity with respect to the power
Whitaker, N. W. Williams, Windship, Windsor,
E. Wood, Wyles, Young.-245.
of the legislature to class the towns more than
once.
NAYS–J. Allyne, Aliny, W. Austin, Jonathan
Bacon, Bailey, Bánister, E. D. Bangs, A. Bartlett,
The amendment was adopted and the resolution
8. Bartlett, W. Bartlett, J. Bartlett, Jr. Beách, J.
passed to a second reading.
The 12th resolution, which provides that when
1 1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
só
the population of any of the towns classed as before counties between which there is a difference
mentioned shall amount to 1200--such town shall of nearly 20,000 of inhabitants, send
be entitled to elect a representative, was read and nearly the same number of representatives,
passed to a second reading without debate
but the largest county will pay for thirteen more
The 13th resolution, which provides that any than it is represented by, and the latter for five
lown hereafter incorporated shall be entitled to less than the number it may have in the Legisla.
send a representative when it shall contain 2400 ture. Again, the county of Worcester which con-
inhabitants, and not before, was read and passed tains a population of 64,000 would be entitled to 27
to a sccond reading without debate.
---but may send 41 and have to pay but for 31.
The 14th resolution, which provides that the Thus this county which is less by 9000 inhabitants
members of the house of representatives may be than Essex, will have 9 mare Representatives ; Nang
paid for attending the general court out of the tucket, which by its population is entitled to 3,
treasury of ihe commonwealth was read, and the will have to pay for nearly 6. This inequality,
amendment made in committee of the whole, chang- exists more or less in all the counties, and the
ing may into shall, wąs agreed to.
burden will be felt exclusively by the counties of
The question being upon the resolution passing | Suffolk, Essex, and Nantucket, and he thought the
to a second reading,
inhabitants of those counties would not ratily the
Mr. S. A. WELLS, of Boston, said that he felt alteration proposed, if adopted by the Convention;
compelled by a sense of duty to oppose the farther and manifestly unequal aid unjust is the systenig
progress of the resolution. Its operation was so thst he presumed, those of other counties might
unequal and unjust, that ke conceived it would not, for those reasons be induced to reject it. He
if fully understood, be adopted hy the convention;
therefore hoped that this part of the report would
and if it were adopted, he doubled whether it
not be accepted.
would be ratified by the people,' This, to his mind, Mr MARTIN, of Marblehead was in favor of
was a consideration that merited attention. If the the towns paying their own representatives, and
people were dissatisfied with parts of the amends || opposed to the resolution on the ground of its or
ment, it might lead them to reject the whole. The perating unequally and unjustly upon the large
inequality of the operation of the resolution, ex- towns. He said a great deal about the system of
tended to and would be felt by a very large body of
the select committee being an unjustifiable bargain.
the people of the commonwealth. This inequality 'Mr. PRESCOTT, of Boston, said he was fully
both as it respects the representation of the several aware that the large towns would have to contrib-
counties, and the proportion of the expense to be ute to the payment of the representatives of the
paid for its support will be constantly increasing:-
small towns, but the House of Representatives was
He had, he said, made a statement* of the popula-
to be reduced, and it was necessary to offer an in-
tion of the several counties, the number of repre:
ducement to the small towns to give up a part
sentatives ivhich that population would give to each, of their representation. It was well known that
the number which each would be entitled to by the the Representatives from small towns were in the
proposed mode of representation, and the number. habit of attending the General Court very little,
that each might send to the legislature and would so as to make a constant change during the ses-
have to support. He would not vouch for the per- sion in the popular branch, Paying them out of
fect accuracy of the statement, but he believed it the public treasury would ensure an attendance
to be sufficiently correct "for his purpose.
during the whole session and the business would
By this, it appeared, that the county of Suffolk is be transacted better. It was the understanding
upon its population, entiiled to 14 Representatires; of the select committee that all the resolutions form
but
would have to pay for 51 --making a difference ed a system and that it some of them were acceptą
of more than 37. The county of Essex, "which | ed, all of them ought to be.
contains 72,000 inhabitants 'is, upon this popula.
Mr. QUINCY, of’Boston, said, with respect to
tion, entitled to 30 Representatives, would send the principle of reduction, that he wished gentle-
32, and pay for 45; and the county of Middlesex, men to understand what they were doing. They
Fontaining nearly 53,000 inhabitants, is entitled to were depriving towns of their right of sending
22 ; but by the mode recommended, would send
their full number of Representatives when any
great exigency should require a large House; and .
33, and pay for less than 28. Thus these two
were increasing the number permanently_since,
* Statement referred to above.
if the Representatives were paid out of the public
treasury there would aļways be a full House. He
looked to the good sense of the ģeople to reject
the system proposed.
Mr. PRINCE, of Boston, opposed the resolu.
tion because it would operate very unjustly on that
Counties.
town, without any equivalent.
Mr: FLINT, of Reading, said there was not so
much inequality as gentlemen seemed to suppose,
Suffolk
in the large towns contributing to the payment of
134381 14 14 121022,66 511
Essex
the Representatives from the small towns. If a
72888 30
32 18421,26 455
Middlesex 52789
Representative from a small town should attend
22 33 11344,01 27
Norfolk
the General Court, his services would be as bene-
36245 13 18 6692,02 17
Plymouth 35169
ficial as those of a Representative from a large
18 5930,68 143
town. He would work during the whole session,
37168 16 18 5974,65 14
for the good of the whole community, without being
Barnstable 22211 9. 12
2427,99 57
able to get excused, except in very urgent cases.
Dukes 3290
2 476 1!
Nantucket
It was therefore not so much like oppression to
6807 3 3 2188 53
make thelarge townscontribute to the compensation
Worcester 64910 27 41 12749,31 312
for his services, as it would be to oblige the small
Hampshire 23545 10 14 4021,35 9?
towns to bear the whole burden. It is was proper
Hampden 24423 10 15 3914,66
93
Franklin 28307
that the commonwealth should pay for for servi-
12 16 4030,66 97
Berkshire 35907
ces performed for the benefitof the commonwealth,
.15 21 5322,64 13
He mentioned as an inequality in the present sys.
tem that some towns were in the habit of sending
$72,040/ 197 257 101515,89 257
no Representatives ; thus making the burden
Population of
1810.
Vo. of Reps. by
the aggregate
pop..of towns.
Number of Rep
résentatives by
townssep’rately
Taxes paid by
the several
counties.
No. of Reps. 10
be paid for by
each county.
15
Bristol
1
233
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
1
legislation to be borne entirely by the other towns, 11 plete. Having taken away the rights of the small
while they derived equal benefit from the laws towns, they were bound to pay the equivalent.-
which were paşsed.
The payment out of the treasury was the only e.
Mr. RANTOUL, of Beverly, said the comprom- quivalent, and they were bound to pay it.
ise extended only to the number of Representa- Mr. PRESCOTT did not consider it in the na-
tives as an equivalent for the greater representa- ture of a bargain; but he did consider the whole
tion in the Senate. He considered the present report of the committee as a system, which was to
resolution as a distinct proposition. It was better be adopted in whole, or not at all, and that it would
to let the constitution remain on this subject as it be unjust to adopt a part of it, which inight appear
pow stands. 'A large part of the travel of the to be advantagequs to one part of the state, and
members was now paid by Suffolk and Essex; and || reject another part of it which offered an equivalent
if it should be necessary to ensure a sufficient num, advantage to the other parts of the state.
ber of Representatives, to transact the business of Mr. SLOCUM said 'that he had much rather
the commonwealth, thé Legislature could provide hear than speak, for he felt better instructed when
for paying the members out of the public treasury. he was listening to other gentlemen. His text was
He was opposed to the present resolution.
that taxation and representation ought to go hand
ME, AUSTIN, of Boston, hoped the reso- in hand. The representatives had frequently come
would prevail. Individuals attended the General forward and wished to be paid out of the public
Court, to take care of the commonwealth, and not chest. They last year passed a resolve for this
of their particular towns; in the same manner as purpose, but it was rejected by the Senate. Ought
members of Congress act for the United States, we liot to hear the voice of the people? He wanted
and are paid from the public treasury. As he vo- an equal taxation, and an equal representation, and
ted for the part of the compromise which was ben- then lie should feel happy. But it was not an equal
eficial to the large towns, he felt compelled by a representation that the poor towns which cannot
regard to something like good faith to vote in fa- pay shall have no representative unless they pay
vor of the other part.
them. He did not see where gentlemen built their
Mr. STORY, of Saleni, said that in point of argumentmit could not be on equal rights, nor on
good faith as he had voted for the preceding equal taxation, but it must be from the ingenuity
resolutious, he was bound to vote for this one ; of their own brain. He should therefore vote in
though he was aware that the town he represent- favor of the resolution.
would suffer by the adoption of the whole system, Mi. KEYES, of Concord, was in favor of this
in compromising with other towns. But it was ne- resolution and opposed to all the rest. He entered
cessary to reduce the number of the House of his protest against the system relative to the Senate
Representatives. By the system now offered, it now, and he should protest against it hereafter.
never would exceed 275, wbereås by the old sys- Mr. BLAKE said that they were legislating, not
tem it might in a few years amount to 800. The aboul representatives of the the towns, but about
Legislature was for the benefit of the whole state, l representatives of the people of Massachusetts.
and gentlemen from small towns did as much as Ought not the people of the Commonwealth to pay
those from the large towns. He agreed that if their own servants and agents ? He did not support
the present system continued, they ought to be the resolution on the ground of a compromise, but
paid by the respective towns and this froin neces- on the ground that it was a provision perfectly
sity, in order to check the number in the House of consonant to sound principle.
Repræsentatives. The small towns had made a Mr. LAWRENCE protested agairt the remarks,
concession, and were entitled to some equivalent. from various parts of the house, procecding from
Mr. QUINCY said he protested against the bar- the idea that any rights were intended to be bar-
gain proposed by the select committee.
gained away. I'here was nothing in the resolution
Mr. MARTIN said this was called a bargain- by which the interests of the Commonwealth, or
it was a bargain he did not agree to. It bargained the honor of the towns was to be compronitted.
away five members from the town of Marblehead. The committee considered it a settled principle
He did not object to it because he wished to be e- that the number of representatives should be re-
lected. I never wish, said he, to have a seat in duced, so that the members might be paid out of
the house, and I am sorry to think I am here now. the public chest—this could be cone only by dis-
He was not able to follow the gentleman from tricting, or in the present mode. This mode had
Salem with all his learning and eloquence, but if been preferred by the house-every one acquaint-
he could bring forward facts to put down his argu- ed with the course of business in the house of rep.
ments, it was his duty to do it." He proceeded to resentatives knew, that underthe present organiza-
state in what manner the resolution if adopted, tion a great part of the members did not reniain in-
would, operate on the county of Essex, particularly their seats long enough to render any service.--
en the commercial part of it, and contended that | They went home early in the session to save their í
for its inequality it ought not to be adopted. towns from the burden of paying for their atlend-
Mr. J. LITTLE, of Newbury, wished to know if ance, and left the business to be transacted by the
the committee had any authority to make a bargain representatives of a few towns. This occasioned
that should oblige the house to adopt this resolu- great uneasiness, and the difficulty could never be
tion. If they had made any such bargain it was on remedied but by paying the menibers out of the
their own responsibility, and the house were not public treasury
bound by it. Instead of diminishing the number of
Mr. HOY'T said that the town which he repre-
representatives, they had increased them, and they sented would be deprived of half its representa-
were to be paid by taxing every town in the state. tion and be obliged to pay for double what it is en-
He could not agree to it, and he did not think the titled to. But he was in favor of the resolution,
people would agree to it. He would not only give because he thought it would be for the benefit of
his voice against it,but would do all he could to pre- the Commonwealtl:.
vept its being ratified.
Mi.LOCKEsaid that one of the first abstract prin-
Mr. LINCOLN said no man was more opposed (ciples decided by the select committee, was that sep:
than he was to the system of representation that resentatives should be paid out of the public chest.
had been adopted-lie considered it unequal, op- This was before any plan of representation was
pressive and unjust, and he meant to protestagainst matured and was agreed to almost unanimously.-
it now and hereafterliere and elsewhere. But They were considered as agents of the whole Com- ,
the house having seen fit to adopt a system which taonwealth, otherwise it would be improper lo fine
hs had 18 part iv, they were bound to nake it com- towns for neglecting to send Representatives.
i
933
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION
Mr. BANISTER considered it to be his duty to The other part of the resolution passed to a se-
his constituents as well as his right, to express his cond reading and was in the meantime referred to
objections to this resolution. He agreed that the to the same commiteé,
expenses of legislation ought to be borne by the Tomorrow, at 10 o'clock, was assigned for the
whole state, but there ought to be some equality second reading of the various resolutions before
between representation and taxation: If the systein mentioned.
would effect the object of reducing the represen- On notion of Mr. PRESCOTT, the house went
tation and the expenses of government, he should into committee of the whole on the resolution sub-
be more reconciled to it. But it would have the mitted by liim for limiting the number of represen-
effect to increase the representation and the ex- tatives, Mr. VARNOM in the chair. .
penses of government as well as to increase the Mr. PRESCOTT said, that from the best com,
inequality of burdens on the community. He stat- putation he could make, the number of representa.
ed several other objections to the operation of it tives by the census of 1810, would be from 250 to
generally and explained its unjust operation on the 260. By that of 1820 it may be 270. A stroog wish
county of Essex particularly compared with all the had been expressed from various parts of the
other counties. He said that Essex - would lose house that they should not be increased far above
from five to ten inembers compared with every this number. To prevent any increase abore 275,
county except Suffolk and Nantucket; and that all he had proposed this resolation. He proceeded to
the counties would gain except Suffolk, Esses and explain the operation of the resolution.
Plymouth. He did not believe that the people Mr. BOND was opposed to the resolution. If
would agree to it.
he anderstood the effect of it, it would tend to in-
Mr. PARKER, of Charlestown, said he opppose crease the inequality of the system as it was now
er the resolution respecting the Senate, but as they adopted. The mean increasing number was to be
had been accepted, this was the only counterpart. increased in proportion to the increase of populaa
The Senate was to be formed upon yaluation and tion in the commonwealth, and this would increase
the House of Representatives upon corporate the inequality in favor of the small towns.
rights. Neither of these ivas a representation of The question was taken without further debate, :
the people, and the majority of the people might and the resolutior agreed 10-200 to 36,
be governed in both branches by a minority of the The committee rose and reported.
people. He held that living, moving, cting, intel- The resolution was then read the first time in
ligent beings were the only proper basis for both convention and passed, and ordered to a second
branches ; but as a different one had been adopt-reading tomorrow at 10 o'clock.
ed for the Senate he should vote for this resolu- On motion of Mr. STURGIS; the committee on
tion.
the pay roll was directed to make it up including
Mr. TILLINGHAST, of Wrentham, said he Monday next.
washed his hands of the compromise. He had The resolution reported by Mr. Dana as ciir.
uniformly opposed it, but this resolution should go mau of a select committee, that every male citizen
with the others which had been adopted and he tiventy one years of age and upwards (except pau-
should vote in favor of it.
pers) who has resided in any town six months pre-
The previous question was moved and decided vious to an elections for civil officers, and who shall
in the affirmative.
have paid by himself or liis parent, &c.a public tax
A motion to take the question by ycas and nays assessed within two years preceding, shall have a
was lost---40 out of 349 voting in favor.
right to vote at such election, was read.
The question was then taken for the resolution Mr. SULLIVAN, of Boston, moved an indefinite
passing to a second reading and decided in the postponeinent. Negatived.
affirmative-283 to 65.
Mr. VARNUM moved to amend hy inserting af
The 15th resolution fixing the quorum of the ter s paupers" the words “and persons under
House of Representatives at 100--the 16th giving guardianship.” The amendment was adopted.
the Representatives privilege from arrest on mesne Mr. SULLIVAN moved to amend so as to ena.
process, warrant of distress, or execution during ble persons to vote wbo shall be exempted by law
their going unto, returning from, or attending, the froni taxation.
General Court and the 17th giving the same priv- The amendment was agreed to 2015 to 25.
ilege to the Senators, were severally read and pas- Mr. LELAND, of Roxbury, moved to amend so
sed to a second reading without debate.
as to require the tax to be assessed w some town
The resolution offered by Mr. Prescott and a- in the commonwealth.
greed to by a committee of the whole, providing Mr. LINCOLN with the same rien, suggested
that all the towns shall be entitled to send a Rep- that the insertion of the word "gerein would ans-
l'esentative on the year when a valuation shall be wer the purpose.
settled, and that any two adjoining towns being This anendment was accordingly adopted.
in the same class and bemg desirous of belonging Mr. LOCKE, without intending to alter tlie
to different classes may be so classed upon appli- seuse, moved to aaiend so that itshould read “who
cation to the Legislature, was read
shall have paid or for whom any parent, guardian,
Mr. STURGIS, of Boston, moved as an amend. &c. shall have paid, &c.
inent that the towns should pay their Representa - This notion was withdrawn upon a suggestion
tives on that year. Negatived.
that the committee for reducing the propositions to
A division of the question was called for. The form, would have power to make the alteration des
question then being upon the first branch of the sised.
resolution, some debate followed, in which Messrs. After a slight debate the resolution passed 10 m
Dwight, Prescott, Page, Hayl and Varnum took second reading tomorrow at 10 o'clock.
part, respecting the year in which this full repre- On inotion of Mr. Alvord, of Greenfield, the res,
sentation should be had, on account of the time ne: olution offered by Mr. Prescott, which had been
cessary to complete a valuation.
discussed in committee of the whole and disagreed
Mr. BOND moved to postpone the considera- to, providing that two towns containing ench less
tion of the subject indefinitely. Negatived. than 1200 inhabitants, might unite for the purpose
The first part of the resolution then passed to a of ciwosing a'representative every year, was read.
second reading, and on motion of Mi. Paye, of Alter debate, in which Messrs. Alvord, Dana,
Hardwicke, was referred in the meantime to a se- Newhall, Prescott, Stowell, Sturgis and J. Baldwin
ject Committee. Messrs. Prescott, Varnum, Paige, | spoke in favor of the priuciple, and Mr. Frnzer a-
Hoyt and Sturgis were appointed on the Commit- gaiust it, t.e convention disagreed to be report of
tee,
234
4
MASSACHUSETTS GONVENTION.
i
)
the committee of the whole. The resolution pas. subject themselves to trial The great arguments
sed so a second reading tomorrow at 10 o'clock, for the amendment is, that it is necessary to secure
and was conmutted in the mean time to the same the independence of the judiciary. He was in faz
select committee to whom the other resolutions vor of the principle, but it had its limitations.-
connected with this subject were committed. While we secure the independence of the judges,
A resolution was offered that it is expedient to we should remember that they are but men, and
alter the constitution so as to provide that printed sometimes mere partisans. He had heard of men
ballots may be used at elections.
being elevated to high judicial stations, not because
Mr. DEARBORN, of Roxbury, said this ques. they were the most able and the most learned, but
tion was discussed in the select committee on the because they stood in the front ranks of their party.,
senate, &c. and it was thought inexpedient to make They are but men, and ought not to be above res-
the alteration, as printed votes would be liable to sponsibility. It was urged as a reason for their
be abused by making caricatures and other things entire independence, that they are called on to
of that sort upon them.
decide on the constitutionality of acts of the legis-
A motion to commit the resolution to a commit- lature. He admitted that they had this right and
tee of the whole was negatived.
that it was an indispensable check on the legisla-
On motion of Mr. STORY the Convention pro- ture. But was there to be no check on the judica
ceeded to the second reading of the resolution re: ary; were they elevated to an atmosphere in which
lating to the Judiciary.
they would have none of the prejudices and strong
The 1st resolution as amended was read,
feelings of other nen? Tbis power of removal
Mr. CHILDS said he thought that by adopting was the necessary, check on the judiciary. It
the amendment, the intention of the provision for was urged that the judiciary ought to be supported
removal of judges by address of the two hruses because it was the feeblest of the three departments
would be done away. It placed this proceeding of the government. He was astonished to hear
on the footing of impeachinent, and it might as this argument. He had considered it the strong-
well be strock out. The object in giving the pow: est. It was the strongest from the duration of the
er to the legislature was, that judges might be re- office of the judges, from the power they exercise,
moved when it was the universal sentiment of the a power which comes home to men's business and
community that they were disqualified for the af- bosons. A man might bear for a little while with
fice, although he could not be convicted on in- tyrannical laws, and a tyrannical executive, but
prachment. He hoped that this part of the cony no man could bear a judiciary power that was
stitution woulů be suffered to remain unaltered. not honest and upright 'however distinguished by
Mr. AUSTIN of Boston, thought the alteration learning. The court were besides attended by a
was unnecessary, and might be mischicrous. Na splendid and powerful retiove-the bar. They.
injury had arisen under the provision. There had have great influence, from their talents, learning
been unpopular decisions of the courts, which af- and esprit du corps, and as an appendage to the
fected the great inass of the people, and produced court they give them a great and able sup-
great sensation, but they were cheerfully submit-
port.
He did not admit that the judiciary
ted to, and no harm caine to the judges. They was a weak branch of the government, but
were secured by a strong popular feeling a moral on the contrary it was a strong branch.-
restraint-a good feeling on the partof the enlighten: We had been told that the best experience was
ed community, which placed themabovedanger from our own experience. This had been in favor of
any popular excitement.
It had been suggested the principle as it stands in the Constitution. If
that it might become an abject to individuals of in- was also the English principle, which was consid-
fluence to obtain the office of juilge. Such an at; ered the best organized judiciary that humanity
tempt could not succeed. The man who would would perfrit. It was not that of the constitution
solicit the office, and would attempt to turn out of the U. States, but the nature of the government
the incumbent to obtain his place, would not re- was different. These were lis general reasons for
tain the countenance and support of any party :- opposing this innovation' on the constitution.
By the constitution, judges, like all other officers, Mr. PRINCE, of Boston, said that after the de-
are subjected to punishment for great crimes by cided majority of this house in favor of the resolu-
impeachment. No body objects to this provision. tion which he had bad the honor to submit, he had
The House of Representatives is the grand in- not expected to hear it called mischievous pro-
quest they are tried by the Senate, and have the vision."
He considered the independence of the
right of being heart. But the constitution admits judiciary the key stone of our republicap institu
that there may be cases in which judges may be litions. He thought the single admission of the
remored without supposing a criine. But how is gentleman last speaking, that the judges have pow.
it to be done by this resolytion there are to be er to declare an act of the legislature unconstitu.
two trials, when for the greater charge of a high tional, furnished a sufficient argument against leava
crime, he has only one. It so obstructs the course ing it to the will of a majority of the legislature to
of proceeding that it will never be used. He remove them from office ; for the exercise of this
would suppose the case not of mental disability- power in relation to a favorite law, would be sure
but the loss of public confidence. He knew that to lead to a resolve for their removal. As the
such cases were not to he anticipated. But he judges are men of the first respectability, prover:
would look to times when the principle might be bial for their integrity and unblenished character,
brought into operation—when ihe judge by indulg- they ought to receive as much attention, and be
ing sirang party feelings, or from any other cause, indulged with the same right of being heard which
should so far have lost the confideace of the com- is extended to the most infortunate class of our
munity that his usefuloess should be destroyed.-- fellow citizenz.
He ought in such case to be removed, but if wit- Mr. STORY was aware of the impatience of the
nesses were to be summoned to prove specific House and he would not rise if there were
charges, it would be impossible to remove him. some circumstances which he thought rendered it
A man may do a vast deal of mischief and yet e- indispensable he should say a few words on this
vade the penalty of the law-ajudge may act in question. Circumstances in the order of Provi?
such a naiiner that an intelligent community may cience had rendered it necessary that he should be
tiuk their rights in danger, and yet commit no of- absent at the time when the report of the selecs
fence against any written or unwritten law. Men committee was under discussion. It was his mis-
are more likely to act in such manner as to render fortune also to be absent when the gentleman who
blemselves unworthy to be crusted, thaa so as to last spoke against the amendment had seen fit op
not
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
235
n
former occasion to make an allusion to him'person- were with the minority. It is always the
nally,in terms so distinct that they could not be mis- great object of the majority to weaken the mi-
understood. He wished the gentleman, to know that nority, and this provision puts it in the power of
he'understood the allusion, but he did not mean to the majority to remove every judge opposed to
reply. He wished it to be understood that in entering them. It is the minority who are interested in the
this house he deposited at the door every feeling | independence of the judges. Is there no danger
of private interese or resentment, and he regrel- that if they are made dependent on the will of the
ted that any gentleman should think it his duty in majority, they will be complaisant to that majori-
debate to make a personal allusion, when the in- ty at the expense of the minority ? that the right
dividual alluded to, was not present. He should of the poor man will be in danger, when opposed
be still more sorry if any gentleman should permit to the interest of the powerful man in the wajori.
his mind to be so disturbed by private resentments ty? He referred to the example of a neighboring
as to permit the Constitution to be stained by a slate in which three whole benches of judges had
provision growing out of those reseniments. He been removed in the space of three or four years
would not decline at a proper time and in a fit ad to the experience of certain other states (not
place attempting to defend the little reputation he within this circuit) where from the dependence of
had it was what he had a right to deſend and he the judges, justice is not impartially administered,
ought to defend, but this was not the place. He and in consequence, instances have frequently
wished in that house to be considered witbout re- happened of citizens being obliged to escape to a
gard to his official station and as standing in a ca- neighbouring statė; to give them a right to the
pacity entirely distinct from the character of the courts of the United States. Was the provision
judge. The report of the select committeë pro- ll adopred in committee of the whole unreasonable
posed to substitute for ( a majority" of each The Bill of Rights secures to every subject how-
house, required to unite in an address for the res ever humble, the privilege of not being held to ans-
moval of a judicial officer, two thirds." The wer for any offence until it has been fully and
object of the amendment was to secure the judges plainly described to him—and the right to produce
from a temporary excitement, operating on the proof in his defence--to meet the witnesses ao
legislature. It was not to protect tliem against gainst him, face to face and to be fully heard in
The people but against the representatives of the his deſence by himself or his council. The rights
people. But the House had overruled the propo-
of the humblest citizen cannot be touched without
sition, and he should make no objection to it. He giving him the opportunity to hear the charge, and
should always submit cheerfully io the decision of to make his defence, and should this rignt be de-
the House though it should be opposed to his own nied to the judge? It might be said that it was not
opinion. The able argument that had been ada his property, or liberty or life that was in question
dressed to the House against the amendment of —but it was something dearer-it was character.
the committee of the whole; ſor ae could listen to If this was to he taken away, let it be done opene
an argument against him, though he did not al- ly--if they must perish let ii be in the face of day,
ways experience the same indulgence, all went to and in the presence of those who attack. Let not
show that the judges ought not to be liable to re- the reputation of the judge, who has spent his
moval by a bare majority of the two houses of the whole life in labour and study, whose youth and
legislature. It was said that the judges should old age bas been devoted to the public service, bc
hold their offices during good behaviour-the taken away at the beck of a popular denagague,
terms were so in the Constitution but while and not let his children have the means of knowing
another clause of the Constitution remained, the the cause, which they who do the injury would
fact was not so. The Governor and Council blush to tell. After a single remove had been
might remove them on the address of a majority of made no man worthy of the pace would accept the
the legislature, not for crimes and misdemeanors, ll charge. He considered it a matter of immense
or that was provided for in another manner, but importance that the judges should be independent.
for no cause whatever--no reason was to be given. A republican government can never subsist with:-
A powerful ivdividual who has a cause in court out it; but while the judiciary is independent, the
which he is unwilling to trust to an uprigbt judge | republic can never be in danger, and those who
may,
if he has influence enough to excite à ino- would destroy it, must underruine not only the put.
mentary prejudice, and command a majority of the lic confidence in the judicary hut the iepure of
legislature, obtain his removal. He does not hold office. There had been an allusion to the practice
the office by the tenure of good behavior of England. Mr. S. proceeded to give the history
but at the will of a majority of the Legislature, and of the act of William 111. by which the judges ot
they are not bound to assign any reason for the the Courts of England are removeable only by ad-
exercise of their power. Sic volo, sic jubeo, stet
dress of the two Houses of Parliament, and before
pro ratione voluntas. This is the provision of the which they were dependent on the will of the king;
Constiution, and it is only guarded by the good
and to show that the object of the act was not 10
sense of the people. He had no fear of the voice give power to Parliament to renove the judges,
of the people when he couid get their deliberate but to induce the king by a compromise, to give
voice but he did fear from the Legislature, if the up a greater right. Since this act, which was one
judge has no right to be heard. It was said we of the most valuable fruits of the revolution, the
had had good judges under this provision and that courts of England liad stood in an attitude which
they had not been removed. He admitted the commanded the admiration of the whole world.
apprehended po evil for ibe present=but begged He alluded to the recent trial of the Queen in
gentlemen not to deceive themselves--the first in- England; to show the value of an exhibition of spe-
stance of removal would establish a practice cific churges and a public hearing, and asked
which would never be departed from, of shifting || whether, if the Green Bag had been opened before
the whole court with every change of the party
a secret committee, it could be supposed there
in power. Why had this evil never yet been felt? would have been the same result. There was not
He did not wish to allude to parties that fiad ex- a man in England bold enough to say that the
isted, but he must allude to facts. For forty years Queen, whether guilty or not, should be urqueened
past it had so happened that the judges had, ex-
without being leard. And should we in this re-
cept for a few years, always agreed with the party publican governnent suffer men, holding the high-
in power. It was not when they were of the same est stations in society; to be removed from their
opinions of the majority of the Legislature offices, with the loss of reputation, without even
that there was any danger, but when they knowing the cause of their removal - He consider-
1
236
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION. :
!
In 1638
ed it indispensible to preserve their independence; Mr. WEBSTER, of Boston, cliairman of the
not only with reference to their own rights, but committee to whom thë subject was committed,
with reference to the rights of the minority made the following report, viz :
and the rights of the people. The amend-
ment agreed to in conimittee of the whole, afford.
IN CONVENTIOŃ, JAN. 4, 1821.
ed but a reasonable security for this independence,
The Committee appointed to inquire into
arid he trusted it would be suffered to become a and report upon the Constitutional Rights
part of the constitution.
and Privileges of the Corporation of Harvard
Mr.. AUSTIN moved that the house adjourn.-- College ; and to report also an account of
Negativedi
Mr. STURGIS called for the previous question, thie donations which have been made to that
which was put and carried.
Corporation by the Commonwealth ; ask
The question was then taken on the resolution | leave now to Report :
pod it passed-221 to 3.
The other resolutions relating to the judieiary, dred and thirty-six, the General Court of
That, in the year one thousand six hun-
were read and passed.
Leave of absence was granted to Messrs. Rice, the Coloniy agreed to appropriate £400 to-
of Marlborough, Leonard, of Taunton, Bliss, ofwards a School or College. In the year fol-
Wilbraham, Trask, of Brimfield, Fowler and Tay- lowing, it was ordered that an Edifice should
lor, uf Westfield, Bourney of Wareham, Newhall, | be erected for that purpose at Newton, and
of Attleborough, and Gifford of Westport.
The House adjonred.
twelve gentlemen were appointed a commit-
tee to have charge of the subject.
the name of Newton was changed to that of
THURSDAY, JAV, 4.
The house was called to order at 20 minutes be- || College, to be erected at Cambridge, should
Cambridge ; and it was ordered, that the
fore 10 o'clock, and attended prayers by the Rev.
Me, Pallrey. Tlie journal of yesterday was then
be called Harvard College, in honor of the
read.
Rev. Jokan Harvard, of Charlestown, who
Mr. JACKSON, of Boston, chairman of the had contributed liberally to the fund. And
committee for reducing amendments into forin, in 1640,' the Rev. Henry Dunster was ap-
reported several resolutions respecting the manner
pointed first President. At this time, the
in which the anendinents should be submitted to
the people.
property, appropriated to the support of the
Mr. JACKSON said the resolutions were the College, by the General Couri, had not been
same in substance and differed very little in words vested in any persons whatever. It rémain-
froin the resolutions formerly reporled by him or
the same siibject; and which we have beforegiven in aged by a coinmittee of the General Courts
ed the property of the Colony, and was man-
the proceedings of Dec 6th. In conformity to an
order of tlie Convention passed on Monday last,
or by the Magistrates and Elders, by authorá
he also reported some amendments. reduced to lity of the General Court. This being found
form, in relation to the subjects reſerred to the
an inconvenient ñode of administering the
standing committees on onths, subscriptions &c. fund, ani act was passed, in 1642, by which
ou the Secretary, Treasurer &c. and on the Gov.
ernor, Militia &c. As we have already given the
the Governor, Deputy Governor, and Mag-
substance of these amendınents as they were from istrates, and the Teaching Elders, of the
time to time adopted by the Convention, we shall towns of Cambridge, Watertown, Charles-
defer publishing them again until all the
amend: | town, Boston, Roxbury and Dorchester, to-
ments, shall be agreed nipon and reduced to form ;
gether with the President of the College;
in order that we may present them all at the same
time, accompanied with the resolutions before were constituted a Board of Overseers, with
mentioned reported to day by Mr. Jackson. power to make orders, statutes, and constitu-
Mr. QUINCY wished the resolutions might lie tions, for the rule and government of the
on the table, to give gentlemen an opportunity to
examine them. They contained one provision, || lands and revenues. The fund remained in
College, and to inanage and dispose of its
which appeared to link to he objectionable, for
appointing a committee of the Convention to meet this situation until the year 1650, when the
and examine the returąs of votes given by the peo- .
General Court, on-the application of the
ple upon the amendments. He doubted the pow- President granted a Charter, by which seven
or of the Convention to appoint such a committee.
The Governor and Council were the proper per-
persons, to wit, the President of the College
sons for examining the returns; they were
and the Treasurer, ex officio, and five individ-
sponsible persons. A committee of the convená uals, by name, were constituted a Corpora-
tion, though they might act fairly and honorably, tion, by the name of the President and Felu
would not be responsible to any body after the lows of Harvard College," to have perpetual
Convention was dissolved.
Mr. QUINCY offered a resolution that in taking succession, and with power to fill vacancies,
the yeas and nays the name of no person who'had occarring in their own body, by their own
had leave of absence should be called, unless le election, with the consent of the Overseers.
first surrendered his leave of absence. Laid on
All powers of Government, the whole man-
the table.
agement and control of the property and
Mr. PRESCOTT, of Boston, chairman of the
select committee to whom the resolution respect funds, and direction and instruction of the
ing the small towns being represented on the year | Students, appear by this charter, to have
when a valuation is to be seitled and another res- been conferred on the President, and Fel-
olution respecting small town's uniting to choose. || lows; with a provision, however, that the
a Representative every year, were yesterday com-
acts of the Corporation should not take ef-
mitted after the first reading, reported the former
resolution without any amendinant, and the latter feet until the approbation or assent of the
in a new draft.
Overseers was obtairied.
1
re-
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
237
1
Ít appears soon to llave been found, that a under the old Government had been; ex offi-
great inconvenience arose from holding all cio, members of the Board of Overseers, ic
orders, by-laws and acts of the Corporation was declared that the Governor, Lieut. Gov-
in suspense, until the pleasure of the Over- erpor, Council and Senate, should be such
seers could be knowit ; and on that account, successors; and that they, with the Presi-
on the application of the Overseers, a Sup- dent of the College, and the Ministers of the
pleinental Charter was granted, in 1657, hy Congregational Churches in the towns of
which all orders, by-laws arid other acts of Cambridge, Watertown, Charlestown; Bosa
the President and Fellows were to have irn- ton, Roxbury and Dorchester; should consti-
mediate force and effect ; subject, however, tute the Board of Overseers; with a provis-
to be reversed or rescinded by the Overseers, || ion, that the Legislature might, nevertheless,
if they should not approve them.
By these
for the advantage of the College and the in-
Charters, all the property, appertaining to terest of Letters, make alterations in its Gov-
the College, became vested in the President ernment, in the same nianner, as they might
and Fellows, for the purposes of the Institu- have been made by the Provincial Legisla-
tion; and all powers of superintendence and ture. In the Constitution of the Corpora-
control were in like manier conferred on tion no change has been made, since the
them, subject, as before mentioned, to the date of the first charter ; but within the last
approbation or disapprobation of the Over- ten years, several laws have passed, hav-
seers. The Government of the Colony was ing for their object, modifications of the Cons
the Founder of this Iustitution ; not in con- stitution of the Board of Overseers. Some
sequence of having granted the charter, but of these laws have passed with the assent,
in consequence of having niade the first en- and on the application of the Corpora:
dowinerit. Ås Founder, it was entirely com- tion and Board of Overseers; and one of
petent to the Government to prescribe the them has passed without the previous con-
termis of the Charter; to grant the priperty,
sent of either. The last Law on this süba
subject to such limitations as it saw fit, and ject is the Act of February, 1814, whichi
to vest the power of visitation and control, passed with an express provision, that its vää
wlierever it judgeil most expedient. This lidity should depend on the assent of the
power, the Government thought proper to Board of Overseers, and of the Corpora-
vest, to the extent, and in the inanner before tio Both of these bodies assented to, and
inentioned, in the Board of Overseers, and accepted this act; and the present actual gov- ,
subsequent donors had a right, of course, to ernment of the College is conformable co its
expect, that donations, made by them, would I provisions. It may be useful to state here,
be nianaged, and applied to their intended how the Government of the College is at
objects, by the College Government, thus present formed and constituted, under this
constituted, without substantial variation. laws
Between the year 1657, (the date of the sup- In the first place then, the Corporation, as
plemental Charter) and the time of the Pro- before inentioned, exists in the form prea
vincial Charter of William and Mary, sun- scribed by the first charter:-
dry alterations were proposed in the Charter It consists of seven members ; it invests
öf the College ; such as, among other things the revenues, protects the property, and has
to give to the College Government civil ju- the immediate charge of the interests of the
risdiction in certain cases, after thie manner College ; and it appojnits Professors, Tutors,
adopted in other Institutions. None of these and other officers ; subject, however, in all
alterations, however; took place. By the these appointments, to the approbation or
Provincial Charter,'in 1691, the Crown of disapprobation of the Board of Overseers.
England confirmed to the College, as well The Board of Overseers is composed of the
as to other bodies, corporate and politic, all Governor, Lieut. Governor, Council, Sena.
its
property, powers, rights, privileges and ate, Speaker of the House of Representa-
immunities. At subsequent periods, at- tives, and President of the College, togeth,
tempts were again inade, for further altera- er with fifteen Ministers of Congregational
tions of the Charter, but without success. Churches, and fifteen Laymen, all inhabita
By the present Constitution of the Com- ants within this State, elected, and to be e-
nonwealth; adopted in 1780,it is well known, ] lected, as vacancies oecur, by the Board ita
all the powers, authorities, rights, liberties, self. If the contemplated arrangement, as
and immunities of the College were express- to the number of Señators and Counsellors,
ly confirmed ; and all gifts, devises and leg- hereafter to be chosen in the State, shall take
acies, made or given to it, declared to be for- place, tbis Board will consist of SEVENTT
ever bound and applied to their respective | SEVEN members ; of whom forty six will be
purposes, according to the will of the donors. such persons as shall be annually chose by
And, inasmuch as the Revolution, and the the people, into the offices of Governor,
establishment of a New Government had Lieut. Governor, Counsellors, Senators, and
made it necessary to declare who should be Speaker of the House of Representatives ;
deemed successors to those persons, who, || and thirty other persons, such as these words
.
31
238
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
cers, being themselves a majority of the Legislative, acts. Those who formed the
Board, shall, with the other members, see fit, || Constitution, in 1780, appear to have deem- !
from time to time, to elect, to fill the vacan- ed the subject of such high importance as to
cies which may occur.
require Constitutional Provisions, and the
Such is the existing Constitution of the Committee are of opinion, that that preced-
Government of this Institution; and, with ent is fit to be followed. They have, there-
one exception, hereafter to be mentioned, fore, deemed it proper to recommend to the
the Committee are of opinion, that it is a Convention to propose an article to the Con-
well contrived and useful form of govern-stitution, removing the restriction before
ment. The Corporation consists of but few mentioned, and confirming, in all other re-
persons ; they can, therefore, assemble fre- spects, the existing Constitution of the Col-
quently, and with facility, for the transac- lege. Having corxmunicated this opinion
tion of business, either regular or occasion- to the Corporation, and !o the Board of O-
al. The Board of Overseers, having a neg- | verseers,both these bodies have siguified their
ative on the more important acts of the Cor-|| consent, to such an article ; as may be seen
poration, is a large and popular body, a by their votes, certified copies of which ac-'
great majority of its members being such as
company this Report.
are annually elected to places of the high- The Committee have no further remarks
est trust in the Government by the people to make on the Constitutional rights and
themselves. A'more effectual control, over privileges of the College, except, that like
the proceedings of the Corporation, cannot all other Charities, it is under the dominion,
be desired.
and control of the Law. All officers and
Indeed if a new government were now to servants of any Institutions, whether estab-
be framed, for an University, independent of lished for the purpose of Religion, or Learn-
all considerations of existing rights and priv- | ing, or the relief of the indigent, are answer-
ileges, the Committee do not know that a able for a strict and faithful execution of
better system could probably be devised.- their trust. And any individual, who may
The history and present state of the institu- be injured, has his remedy, as promptly as
tion, speak the most decisively, as well on in other cases of injury. Or if any abusé,
the plan of its government, as on its admin- or perversion of the funds, be known or sus
istration. As to the care and management pected, a full account may be called for, and
of the funds, it is believed to have been cau: || ample justice administered, in the tribunals
tious and exact, in a very high degree. Noll of the country. The Committee make this
delinquency, to the amount of a single shil- l remark, in order that there need exist no jeal-
ling, is known to have existed in any mem- ousy in the public towards any charitable
ber of the corporation, or any of their agents | Institutions in the State, arising from an ap-
or servants, from the time of the first dona- ll prehension that there is, or can be, any im-
tion, in sixteen hundred and thirty six, to munity in such Institutions, for mal-admin-
the present moment.
istration, any concealment of their transac-
How far this Government of the Universi- tions, any unseen or unknown mismanage-
ty has been found competent to conduct its inent of their property, or any exemption
literary concerns, and to what respectability from a full and perfect legal responsibility
and distinction, among the institutions of the for all their conduct.
country, it has raised it, neither the Members The Committee now proceed to the second
of this Convention, nor the citizens of this object of their appointment ; which was to
Commonwealth, nor the people of the Uni- l obtain an account of the donations which
ted States, peed be informed.
have been made to the College, by the Com-
The exeeption before alluded to, is that, || monwealth ; and although not within the let.
by which the Clergymen, composing part of ter of their instructions, the Committee have
the Board of Overseers, are to be elected thought fit to inqu re into those other aids,
from Christians of a particular denomination. besides immediate donations, which the Col-
However expedient, or indeed however nec- || lege has received from the State ; and also
essary, this might have been originally, the into the proportion which the public grants
Committee are of opinion, that no injury bear to private and individual donations.
would arise, from removing the limitation, The Committee, in making this inquiry,
and that such a measure would be satisfac- have conferred with the President, the
tory. It seems to have been taken for grant- Treasurer, and another member of the Cor--
ed, that the Legislature, with the consent of poration, as a Committee of that Board, at
the Corporation and Overseers, had power tending at the request of the Committee ;
to modify the Constitution of the Board of and from these gentlemen, have received all
Overseers, in the manner prescribed by the the information which they have requested.
Act of 1814. In the opinion of the Commit- As has been already observed, the Colony
tee, huwever, modifications of the Govern- gave £400, for the first endowment of the
ment of this most important Institution Institution. In 1640, it granted to the Col-
should not rest merely on the authority of lege the right of keeping a Ferry over Charles
MASSACHUSETTS GONVENTION.
239
River. For many years this privilege was Six years, of the ten, have now expired,
of little importance, not yielding a net in- and University Hall having been built at an
come of more than twelve pounds annually ; expense of sixty five thousand dollars, and
it gradually increased, however, and was of the Medical College at an expense of
so much consequence, when Charlestown about twenty thousand dollars, and one
Bridge was erected, in 1786, that the proprie- 1 quarter part of the grant, being, as before
tors of that bridge became bound, in their mentioned, appropriated to the use of ne-
charter, to pay the College £200, annually, cessitous seholars, when the four remaining
for the loss of their ferry. Two other bridges,) years shall have expired, the College will
more recently erected over the same river, have invested and applied the whole amount
for a similar reason, pay to the College, each of the grant, with ten thousand dollars of
the sum of one hundred pounds annually, its own funds, to the purposes for which the
In addition to this grant of the ferry, which, grant was made. The Committee have in-
as has been before observed, was of little in- ll quired particularly into the manner in which
portance, in early times, the General Court this charity is distributed, and they think it
of the Colony was in the practice of making wise, impartial and efficacious. Iu the first
annual grants, in aid of the College, and to place, it is given to none but those who
assist in the payment of the salaries of the apply for it, and who clearly shew, by proofs
President, Professors, and Tutors. This from their Instructors, their Ministers, the
practice was long continued, and did not Selectmen of their town, or otherwise, that
entirely cease until after the revolution. These they and their friends are necessitous, and
- sums being given to maintain the College unable to supply the means of education. In
from year to year, were of course appropriated the next place it is required that they should
and exhausted as fast as they were received ; be persons of fair character and good beha.,
and no fund, cosequently, was ever produc- viour ; and when it is ascertained that the ap-
ed by them.
plicant possesses a fair character, and that he
Before the Revolution, certain lands, in is necessitous, he is admitted to partake in
Maine, were given to the College by the the benefit. The scale of merit, kept by the
General Court, from which it has realized Instructors of the Classes, is then referred
eight thousand dollars, and does not expect to, and among those who are thus necessi-
to receive above seven thousand more. tous and of fair character, such as give most
Massachusetts Hall was built by the Pro-proof of talent and promise receive most;
vince, in 1723 ; Hollis Hall, in 1763 ; and those who give less, receive less. It may be
on the burning of Harvard Hall, while in added, that this charity is confined to yoing
possession of the General Court, in 1765, it men of this State. The Committee do not
was rebuilt at the public expense. Holwor- | know how a plan could be devised more
thy Hall, and Stoughton Hall
, were built likely to give effect to the intention of the
principally by the proceds of Lotteries, au- Legislature. This donation, by the Act of
thorized by the legislature, but managed and 1814, is the only direct grant of money, by
conducted at the expense and risk of the the State, since the year 1786.
College. In 1814, on the petition of the In order to compare the amount of dona-
College, the Legislature granted it ten thou- tions made by the State with that of dona-
sand dollars a year, for ten years, out of the tions hy individuals, the Committee have
proceeds of the tax on Banks. Three ob- l proceeded to inquire into the origin of the
jects were intended to be answered by the College funds, generally; and have received
application for, and reception of, this liberal on this subject, also, from the corporation, all
and munificent grant. The College had un- the information desired.
dertakeu to build University Hall, an edifice The amount of all the personal property
which it deemed necessary and essential, holden by the College, and yielding an in-
but the cost of which pressed hard upon its come, does not exceed three hundred thousa
funds. The first object of the grant was, to and dollars. Of this, more than two hunde
pay the expense ofthis building. It was desira- red thousand dollars consist of donations
ble,also, that there should be a building orected made by individuals to specific and particu.
forthe use of the Medicalschool; and, lastly, a lar objects; so that over this part of the
find was wanted for charitable support of new funds, the Corporation has no other control
cessitous young men of merit, the sons of poor whatever, than to apply the annual proceeds
parents, who, without the aid of charity, could thereof according to the will of the donor.
not go through a course of education ; and A munificent individual, for instance,
in whose possession of the means of knowl- ll chooses to establish a Professorship, in any
edge, the State supposed itself to have an in- branch of literature, and for this purpose
terest. University Hall and the Medical Col- makes a donation to the College, and in his
1.gę have accordingly been built ; and that deed, or other instrument of gift, limits the
part of the annual grant (one quarter of the application of the proceeds of the fund to this.
whole) which was destined to purposes of particular object. ' In such case the Corpora
charily, has been so applied.
ation has nothing to do, but to see the fund
1
240
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
/
properly invested and secured, and that a fit From this account of the state of the
person be appointed Professor, to receive the || funds, it is evident that the establishment of
income of it for his support.
So, of funds the Institution, on the present enlarged plan,
given to aid poor scholars, to augment the is not, and cannot be, kept up, but by the
ļibrary, and other similar objects.
help of tuition fees. And donations and ad-
Of the remainder of the personal property, || ditions to the general and disposable funds
a considerable portion, viz. about eighteen of the College, would be highly useful to the
thousand dollars, arises from private dona- | public, as they would diminish the necessary
tions, for objects not immediately connected expense of education.
with the College ; such as the maintenance In pursuance of the opinion formed by
of missionaries, and in one instance, of a the Committee on that part of the subject
grammar school. The general unappropri- || committed to them, which respects the Con-
ated fund of the College, vested in personal | stitutional Rights and Privileges of the Col-
property, yielding an incorne, deducting some lege, they recommend the adoption of the
debts now chargeable upon it, is fitty five ) following Resolution, viz. :
thousand dollars. Tlie real estates of the Resolved, That it is proper to amend tlię
College except the public edifices before Constitution, by providing, that the rights
mentioned, are derived, principally, from the and privileges of the President and Fellow's
donations of individuals; but partly from of Harvard College, and the Charter and
purchases made from the College funds.- Constitution thereof, and of the Board of
The whole income of its real estates, inclu- Overseers as at present established by law,
ding what it receives from the proprietors of be confirmed ; with this further provision,
the several bridges, amounts to five thousand viz.: That the Board of Overseers, in the
dollars annually ; of which one thousand is election of Ministers of Churches to be mem-
appropriated to specific objects by the do- bers of said Board, shall not be confined to
nors. The sums received from studentş, as Ministers of Churches of any particular de-
rents for the apartments occupied by them, nomination of Christans.
are usually absorbed in the repairs of the
For the Committee,
various College buildings. The income of
D.'WEBSTER.
that part of the personal property, which is On motion of Mr. WEBSTER, it was ordered
not appropriated to specific objects, and of that tie report be referred to a committee of the
that part of the real estate, in like manner,
whole, and be printed,
Mr. QUINCY moved that three times the usual
not appropriated to specific objects, consti-
number of copies be printed, in order that the re-
tute, the general disposable income of the port may be circulated. Ordered.
College, applicable
to its general purposes ;
Mr. LEACH, of Easton, offered a resolution
such as paying the Instructers and officers, proposing that hereafter no bank should be inco-
defraying occasional expenses, and making || without making the stockholders liable in their in-
be renewed,
porated, nor the charter of any one
up, in some cases, a deficiency in a particu- 1 dividual capacity. Laid on the table.
Kur specific donation, so that the object of the The convention proceeded to the second reading
donor
may be effected, and the public enab- of the resolutions respecting the Senate and House
Xud to receive the benefit of his giſt
.
of Representatives,
The first resolution of the Select Committee,
The amount of this general disposable in-
which provides that the Senate shall consist of thur-
come still falls so far short of its object, that ty six Senators, being read,
a large sum is necessarily raised by Tuition Mr. ALVORD, of Greenfield, moved to amend
fees. The whole annual expenditure of the | by adding that they should be chosen in districts as
College, including all the general specific || by the several districts, except that no district
nearly as practicable in proportion to the taxes paid
objects, is, at this time, about thirty thousand sliall choose, more than six senators. Mr. A. said
dollars, of which seventeen thousand are his olject was to prevent any ambiguity.
paid by the proceeds of College Funds, Mr. LAWRENCE, of Groton, opposed the a:
general and specifc.and the residụe by tuition
mendment. No question could arise on the subject,
and the amendment was unnecessary.
fees, and other charges on the students. The
The amendment was negatived and the resolution
President, twenty Professors in the several
passed.
departments of Science, Literature, Divinity, The six succeeding resolutions were severally
Law and Medicine ; six Tutors, the Libra-
read and passed.
rian, Steward, and other officers, are paid
The eighth resolution being read,
out of these receipts ; as also the expense of
Mr. GIFFORD, of Westport, noved to amend
it so as to make 1500 inhabitants, justçad of 1200,
Books for the library, apparatus for the phi- the number sufficient to entitle a town to send a
}osophical and chemical departments, and representative every year, and 2500, instead of
other daily expenses incident to such an in- 2400, the number sufficient to eņtitle a towu to send
stitution. The accounts of the Treasurer, of particulars of the operation of these numbers on
an additioal representative. Mr G. stated some
the receipt and disbursement of the monies
the representation on the several counties. He
of the Institution, are, from time to time, all- said the operation would be more equal than iliat
plited by a Committee of the Corporation, of the other numbers that the house of represen-
and also by a Committee of the Board of
tatives would be reduced still further, so as not 10
Overseers
exceed 214, and that from 5,000 to $10,000 would
þe saved in the annual expense of representation.
1
0
j
!
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
241
Mr. RANTOUL, of Beverly, supported the a-, answer the purpose of the gentleman wholast spoke.
mendment, proposing however to make 3,000 the The amendment he would propose was that new
increasing number. He said the operation would towns should be subjected to the same restrictions,
be more equal, particulaıly on the county of Essex, and have the same privileges as other towns of the
and the house would be still farther reduced ; sanie number of inliabitants..
which many gentlemen seemed to think desirable.
Mr withdrew his amendment to give place
Mr. BEACH, of Gloucester, opposed the a- to Mr. Mitchell's.
mendment. He said he should be sorry to disturb
Mr. MITCHELL said there were but 35 towns
the harmony of the admirable and well digested
which had more than 2400 inhabitants. He way
plan of the select committee, which operates so e-
aware that it was an object to reduce the number
qually, throughout the commonwealth, and particu- of representatives, but he did not wish to deprive
larly upon the county of Essex.
new towns of being represented at all. He had
The amendment was negatived-83 to 18.
not been very friendly to the system of the select
Mr. MARTIN said he should vote for the amend.
committee, but he wished to make it as perſcct as
ment because it was better than the resolution of possible, as he perceived that it was the intention
Elie select committee, but he preferred the old sys- | of the house to adopt it. He presunied that if new
tem.
towns should not have the privilege of sending a
Mr. FRAZER, of Duxbury, opposed the resolu-
representative, the legislature would not forget to
tion. He regretted that this plan for the house of
tax them,
representatives was, connected with the plan for
the senate. He thought the people wonid reject this Commonwealth there was very little unincora
Mr. LINCOLN opposed the amendment. In
tire whole,
porated territory; if Maine had continuerl united
The resolution then passed.
with Massachusetts, and this system had been a-
The ninth resolution passed.
dopted, there would have been some reason for a
The tenth resolution licing lend;
provision of this kind; but now it would only give
Mr FOX, of Berkely, moved to amend by strik-
a facility of dividing large towns. Under the sysa
ing out the word "other" in the last clause it
every
other year;" so as to give the small towns the right || less here should be enough in each division to en-
tem proposed, none would want to be divided, un-
of sending a represeniative every year,
title it to sendha representative. He had witnessed
The amendment was negatived and the resolu-
so much mischief and injury 10 Lowņs from being
tion passed.
divided for political purposes, that he would not
The eleventh resolution being rend,
enable the legislature to make a division with that
Mr, PRESCOTT moved 10 end by substitut-
view. If the town of Bridgewater wished to be
ing the word!! smallest” for greatest" - his object divided for the more convenient management of
was to make the year in which the valuation was
their municipal concerns, there was no need of
settled, coincide with the year in which the small-
their having a right to send a representative. Mr.
est of the classed yowns should be regularly repre, Is, said he was not inconsistent with himself in
ented, in order tú give the advantage, if
any,
of
making this remark; his object hitherto had been
extra representațion to the largest of the classed
to prevent towns being deprived of their vested
Mr. LAWRENCE observed that the smallest or rights against their consent.
Mr. PRESCOTT spoke in opposition to the as
the classed towns, as the resolution stands, would
mendinent.' He supposed a town to have 3600 in
have one niore representative, in ten years, than
habitants. This nunilver would be entitled to two
the largest of the classed towns.
The question on the amendment was taken and representatives; but by dividing the town into three
decided in favor of the amendment-92 to 66.
new ones, the same number of inhabitants would
A new count was called for, on the ground that according to tłyis amendment send three represen-
many members did not vote and the amendment
tatives.
Mr. MITCHELL replied.
was negatired-117 to 155.
Mr. PRESCOTT moved to add to the resolu-
Mr. VARNUM said lie was aware tliat the town
tion the following amendment, vizes Provided,
of Bridgewater has applied to the legislature to be
that if any two adjoining towns, each containing divided, and that the legislature had declined
less than 1200 inhabitants, shall belong to the sanic granting their request. He hoped we had come to
class, and shall be desirous of belonging to difler- an end of dividing large corporations. Bridgewater
ont classes, and shall petition the Legislature to
had been a large and respectable corporation for
place them in different classes--it shalpbe their dut | nearly 200 years, and be hoped it would continue
ty to do it accordinglysand such towns shall there- so for 200 years more. He hoped the aniendment
after be entitled to eleet a representative every oth-
would not prevail
er year, until one of them, by the number of its in- The anıçıdpeņt was negatived and the resolu-
habitants, shall be entitled to elect a representative | passed,
'The 14-th resolution being read,
every vear,
Mr.MARTIN said he should feel bound to oppose
The amendinent was adopted and the resolution
the resolution all in his power, and this being the last
passed.
The twelfth resolution was read and passed.
opportunity, he should state his objections. He
The thirteenth resolution, which requires that
proceeded to argue at some length against the res-
towns herraſter incorporated, shall contain 2400 olution. He was opposed to the whole system, and .
inhabitants before they shall be entitled to send a
he proposed to lay on the table tomorrow a propo.
sition to take the old constitution with but one a.
representative, being read,
Mr. of moved, to substitute 1200.-- mendient. He moved to amend the resolution,
He said he could not perceive the reasonableness
so that the representatives shall be paid for theire
of giving all incorporated towns containing a less
attendance by their respective towns.
number than 2400, the right of sending a represen- Mr. FLINT spoke in favor of the resolution
tative, and denying it to towns of equal magnitude under consideration, and against the amendment.
hereafter to be incorporated. There was no pro- He said that the representatives came to do the
vision in the resolutions for new towns containing business of the Commonwealth, and not of towns,
less than 2-400 inhabitants, being either classed, or and he did not consider il dishonourable or unjust
sending a representative hy themselves.
to require the state to pay for their attendance.
Mr. MITCHELL, of Bridgewater, said he had Mr. MARTIN spoke again in aayor of the a--
prepared au amendinent which would more fully | mendment.
toins.
1
212
.
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
1
1
The motion was negatived, 33 to 274 and the res- | bearing on the small towns, and would do away
olution passed.
the principle already allowed. It would deprive
The 15th resolution was read.
them of the prospect of ever attaining the right to
Mr. PHELPS, of Belchertown; thought that a
a permanent representative.
hundred was too high a number for the quorum of Mr. STONE, of Stowe and Boxborough, said
Ebe house, and he noved to amend by striking out that no provision was made for the towns now
one hundred and inserting sixty.
united.
Mr. VARNUM thought one hundred was too Mr. ABBOT hoped the amendment would not
low a number, and the quorum ought to be equal pass. It would disiurb the arrangement after 1830,
to half the persons elected.,
and put it in the
it in the power of the legislature to make
The amendinent was negatived and the resolution the increasing number larger or smaller for party
passed.
purposes. He thought it better to leave the sys-
The 16th and 17th resolutiuns were read and tem as it was reported. If the house should be- .
passed.
come too large in future, the provision for amend-
Mr. PRESCOTT, chairman of ihe committee ment would furnish the means for rectifying it.
to whom the subject was referred in the first rea- Mr LINCOLN said that the 148 towns not en-
ding, reported the following Resolve, as taken into titled to a representative, unless they increased
a new draft :-
faster than the state at large, would neyer have a
Resolved, That it is proper and expedient right to a representative.
further to alter and amend the Constitution, because there was no other way of limiting the
Mr. APTHORP was in favor of the amendment
so as to provide, that when any two towns,
number of the House.
each of which shall contain less than 1200 Mr STORY considered it as a proper and ne-
inhabitants, or any town, or town and dis-
cessary part of the system. He hoped the amende
trict, now united for the purpose of choosing ment would prevail, because without it the house
a Representative, and another town, each of might go on to increase until it became as large as
it is now, and a town of 1200 inhabitants not in-
which towns separately, or united towns, or
creasing, might have a greater privilege than a
towns and districts, shall contain less than
town now smaller which should increase to a
1200 inhabitants, shall preſer being united greater number.
for the purpose of electing a Representative The amendment was agreed to--174 to 109—and
the resolution passed,
together every year, to choosing one every
Mr. SIBLEY moved that when the house ad-
other year separately, and shall apply to the journed it should adjourn to this afternoon at half
Legislature to unite them for that purpose, past 3 o'clock. Negatived.
the Legislature sha!l unite them according- Un motion of Mr. PRESCOTT, the Convention
ly; and the meetings for the election of their proceeded to the first reading of the resolutions of
the select committee relating to the Council.
Representative shall be holden in such town,
The first resolution was read, the amendment
aad at such time, and the choice they shall made in committee of the whole was agreed to, and
inake shall be certified by the selectmen of it passed to a second reading,
one or both of said towns, in such manner,
The second resolution which fixes the number
of Counsellors at seven and the quorum at four,
as the Legislatnre shall direct ;-and such
was read,
towns.shall continue so united until the in-
Mr. MORTON offered a resolution as a substi. ,
habitants of one of them shall have increas-
tute for the second and third of the select comniile
ed to such a number as shall entitle it separ- lee, proposing that one counsellor should be chos.
aiely to send a Representative ; or until one
en by the inhabtiants of each senatorial district,
of said towns, hy a vote of a major part of
and the persons so chosen should form the Coun-
cil; vacancies in any district, if any, to be filled by
the legal voters therein, shall apply to the
the Legislature from the two persons having the
Legislature, to separate them; whereupon it greatest puniher of votes in the district,
shall be their duty to separate them accor- The motion was decided not to be in order, it
dingly ; and to class them in the same man-
being a proposition to make a substantial amende
ment in the constitution, which had not been dis-
ner they were clussed before they were
cussed in committce of the whole.
united.
Mr. MORTON then moved that the convention
Read a second time as reported and passed. now go into committee of the whole on the reso-
The resolution for liiniting the nunber of Rep-lution. Negatived,
resentatives after the year 1830, being read,
The second resolution then passed to a second
Mr. PRESCOTT moved to amend by striking reading,
out the proviso and inserting the following and The third resolution which provides that the
if any town which now contains 1200 inhabitants,
Counsellors shall be chosen by the two houses of
shall at the time of taking the census aforesaid, or the Legislature in convention was read.
in any 10th year afterwards he found not to con- Mr. MORTON moved to amend it by substitut-
tain the number of inhabitants which according to
ing in substance a resolution offered by him income
the provision aforesaid, shall then be requisite to mittee of the whole, proposing that there shall
entitle it to sepd a Representative every year, be anijually chosen in each district one person to
such town shall be classed by the Legislature, and be returned as counsellor and that from the per-
shall thereafter he entitled to send a Representa- sons so returned. seven shall be chosen by jomt
tive every other year, until it shall have attained a
ballot to constitute the Council.
competent number to entitle it to send a Repre- Mr, MORTON stated briefly his reasons in lae
sentative every yen-and no town or town and vor of the amendment. It had been his object to
district, which, according to the census which is inake it conform to the true spirit of the constitu-
pow taking, shall be entitled to send a Representa- tion from which he considered the proposition
tire every other year, shall ever be deprived of of the select committee a direct departure.
that privilege.
The amendment was negatived.
Mr PARKER, of Southborough, was opposed On motion of Mr. DANA, tlie blank was filled
to the amendment. It would have an unfavorable with the first Wednesday in January.
SO
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION
243
Mr.QUINCY said, that the phrase "from among whom was referred the resolution of the select com-
the people at large" had received a construction mittee on the sulyject of Harrard College.
which he thought was incorrect. To restore what On motion of Mr. LEACH, of Easton, the res-
he considered the true construction he moved to olution offered by him yesterday respecting banks,
amend the resolution by adding the words " ex- was referred to the same committee of the
cluding members of the House of Representatives.” whole.
Mr BOND opposed the amendment. He said
Mr. HINCKLEY chairman of the select com-
it had sometimes been found difficult to find per- mittee to whom the subject was referred, reported
sons in each district suitably qualified who would a resolution for regulating the proceedings in pros-
accept the office; and the persons besť qualified ecutions for libels. Referred to the same commit-
might be members of the House of Representa- tee of the whole.
tives.
Mr FISHER, of Rochester, offered a l'esolu.
Mr. QUINCY replied to the objection, and the tion respecting the salaries of the Governor,and Jus-
amendment was agreed to~160 to 31.
tices of the Supreme Judicial Court. Referred to
On motion of Mr. SIBLEY, the resolution was the same committee of the whole.
further amended by inserting before “ Represen- Mr. of
offered a resolution pro
tatives" the words Senators and."
posing to abolish the office of Lieut. Governor.-
Mr. BLAKE hoped he should not have the ap- Mr. moved that it be referred to the same
pearance of too great pertinacity in favor of a committee of the whole. Negatived.
principle which he hasi 'supported, if he renewed On motion of Mr. WEBSTER, the house went
the proposition which he had made in committee into committee of the whole on the resolution re-
of the whole to retain the mode of election now lating to Harvard College, and the other resolu-
provided by the constitution. He therefore mov- tions referred to the same conimittee, Mr. Pick-
ed that the resolution should be so amended as to man of Salem, in the Chair.
provide that no further alteration should be made The Committee proceeded to the consideration
in this part of the constitution.
of the resolution offered by Mr. Lyman, for pro-
Mr. AUSTIN moved that the question on the viding that no Counsellor shall be appointed to any
amendment should be taken by yeas and nays. other office during the time for which he shall
Negatived-28 to 241.
have been elected a Counsellor.
The amendment was negatived without a divi- Mr. LYMAN said he borrowed the provision-
sion.
from the Constitution of Maine. The design was
Mr. PICKMAN moved to amend the resolution to prevent the Governor being surrounded by men
by inserting the Couusellors shall have the same desirous of voce. He would have the Counselo
qualifications in point of property and residence lors above the desire of other offices.
in the commonwealth as are required by this con- Mf. TURNER of Scituate suggested that the
stitution for Senators, and-the Senate and House office of Justice of the Peace slould be excepted.
of Representatives may fill any vacancy that may Mr. DANA, of Groton, objected to the resolu-
exist in the Council by reason of death, resigna- || tion, as its tendency would be to prevent suitable
tion or otherwise, in the manner aforesaid.” The a- persons from accepting the office of Counsellor. I
mendment was agreed to.
Mr. Starkweather and Mr. Bond spoke in favor
The resolution then passed to a second reading. of the resolution.
The fourth resolution was amended on motion of Mr. WEBSTER said lie thought a little reflec-
Mr. Tart, of Uxbridge, by substituting “ Senato- tion would convince gentlemen of the inexpedien-
rial district” for “ county and passed to a second cy of this provision. Something like it was to be
reading.
found in the Constitution of the United States,
The fifth resolution wảs read, the blank fiilled which prohibitrd members of Congress being apie
with the first Wednesday in January, and passed pointed to any civil office under the ruthority of
to a second reading.
the U. S. crealed while they were in Congress;
Tomorrow at 10 o'clock was assigned for the but this prohibition never carne to any thing. A
second reading of the several resolutions.
law would be passed on the third of March, and
Leave of absence was granted to Messrs. Oak- the appointment be made on the fourth. Coun-
ham of Pembroke, Grosvenor of Paxton, Dicken- sellors would decline in order to be (apable of
son of Belchertown, Gilbert of Northbrookfield, holding a more desirable office.
and Cobb of Brewster'.
had not sufficient character to prevent him front
The House. adjourned.
being unduly influenced, we ought not to prevent
him in this way ; and we could not do it if we
would. We should diminish the respectability of
FRIDAY, JAN. 5. the Council, if going into the Council was ging
The house met at half past 9 o'clock, and at- into Coventry. No evil lad resulted from the
tended prayers offered by the Rev. Mr.' Jenks.- want of such a provision in the Constitutiou.
After which the journal of yesterday was read.
Mr. QUINCY said office seekers were a slippe-
Leave of absence was granted to Messrs. Dim- ry race. They only slip off one skin and go into
mick of Falmouth, Howard of Bridgwater, another. A provision of this kind would not be
Harwood of Enfield, Fisher of Lancaster and Par. secure against evasions. He hoped the resululion
ker of New Bedford.
Would not be adopted.
On motion of Mr. DRAPER, Chairman of the The question was taken on the resolution and
Committee on Accounts, it was ordered that each decided in the negative.
member of the Convention be furnished with a The compittee next took up the resolution res-
copy of the journal of its proceedings, now publish- Il pecting libels, providing that in prosecutions for li-
ing in a volume, providing the same may be had bels against public men, the truth may he given in
for a reasonable compensation.
evidence, and that the jury may deternive both the
Mr. HINCKLEY, of Northampton, chairman
law and the fact.
of a select committee to whom a resolution on the Mr. HINCKLEY, remarked that the select.com-
3:abject of filing informations was committed at the mittee had taken time and duly considered the suli.
first reading, reported the same with amendments, llject of the resolution. Some of that committee
and tomorrow was assigned for its second reading. I thought the law was well established in conformity
On motion of Mr. LÝMAN, of Northampton,
with this resolution, and some thought it would lie
the resolution offered by him respecting Counsel-
.
lors was referred to the committee of the whole to This resolution did not go so far as the propositioy
If the governor
1
244
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION
1
of the gentleman from Boston which was referred be left to the Legislature-we might as well icave
to the committee.
the liberty of the press to the Legislature. The
Mr. BLAKE hoped the resolution would prevail. Constitution established the freedom of the press
He had thought the constitutivn defective in this and the law of libel was intimately connected
particular. The constitution adopted the common with it. It was a very difficult subject to say what
inw as it had been used and practised in this Com- was libel, and what was not, and it was as much
nonwealsh, leaving it uncertain what part of that the duty of the Convention to make the law of libel
law had been esed and practised here. In a case permanent as the liberty of the press. He refer-
twenty years ago, it was contended that the odious
red to a case in 1798 when it was decided by the
common law doctrine, respecting libels had not been Supreme Court of that day that the truth could not
adopted in this Commonwealth, but the court were be given in evidence, but the court allowed it
of a different opinion. Great pains had been taken as an indulgence which the law did not require.
to render the law clear respecting offences, but Mr. JACKSON, of Bostoni; agreed that the res-
with respect to seditious libels there had always
olution was unnecessary because the law already
been doubts and a difference of opmion: As the contained all that was required. The principle
common law stands the court has unlimited power had been settled in this state several years ago, and
in relation to the punishment of offenders. At had been uniformrly acted upon. But he object-
the common law the practice had been carried to ed to the resolution, because it restrained the lau
a monstrous extent; so that the truth of the charge and made it more narrow. The principle of the
was held to be ratherinaggravation of the offence.
law is, that one may always publish the truth from
The present resolution proposed a useful altera- right motives and for justifiable ends. This,he con-
tion.
ceived to be the common law of England, if right-
Mr: PARKER said it had been decided that the
ly understood, but having been corrupted, the act of
constitution already contained the provisions and Parliament or the last reign was passedto bring back
more broadly than in the amendment proposed, the law to what it was formerly. When the people
that the truth migltt he given in evidence in prose- are called on to ele ct public officers it is right that
cutions for libels against public officers. And as to they should be informed of the characters of the
the other part of the resolution, the law now, was candidates, and it is the right of any person to in-
that the jury were judges of the law and the fact struct the public mind in relation to them. On
under the direction of the court. He considered this principle; all candidates are considered as pula
the proposed alteration to be unnecessary. ting their characters before the public, and any
Mr. SALTO,STALL said the amendment had
one has a perfect right to say any thing that has
been urged on the ground that the cuillnion claw any relation io their qualifications for the office
was adopted by tlje Constitution. The article only
that is true. This right depends on the motive and
provides that the laws usually practised on in the the end in view. But this resolution does not go
courts of law, shall remain in force until altered or ſar enough. It extends only to public men. Supp-
repealed by the Legislature. If any modification
pose an apothecary in vending medicines, sells
of the law is necessary it is entirely in the power those which are poisons, no one can doubt that it
of the Legislature. But it is not necessary. The my duty to inform. What is the ground on which
law now siands precisely on the fuoting on which I an excused ? It is that I do it from a right moó
the mover of the resolution would wish to place it.
Ar: MORTON ás one of the select Committee, does not go to this case: If it is a part of the con-
assented to the report not from any ipprehensionstitution, it ouglit to go to every case to which the
of the law as it now.is, but of the common law of reason of it extends. The resolution is loose in a-
England formerly--that oniy the fact of publica- pother view. It would seem to give the right to
tion need be proved, and the court was to deter-
publish every thing of a public officer that is true,
nine what was libel. Biit in this country the com- though it he done from à corrupt and malicious
non law is adopted only as far as it is applicable || motive. If a man publishes a slanderous private
to our institutions. He stated the law as it had anecdote of an individuals which has nothing to
been laid dowu in our courts. He was willing ! do with his qualifications for office, and if the jury.
the resolution should be either adopted or rejeci- believe that it is done for a malicious motive and
ed,
that he took advantage of the occasion of his being
Mr. DUTTON hoped the resolution would not a candidate for office logive vent to a private pique,
be adopted. It went only to establish what was they ought to convict him, and it should be no an-
now the law of the land. In the case of the Com- swer, that what is asserted is true. The resolution
MARweulth 2's. Cup, the whole law was laid down, therefore does not go far enough in one particular,
and in bruader terms than in this resolution. That
and goes too far in another. Besides, the present
the Jury have the right of deciding on the law as law is on a proper footing, and if the decision
well as the fact, is a part of the commiun law of should be overruled, it is in the power of the Le-
the country and it is laid down in bronder
gislature by statute; to regulate it at pleasure.
and more favorable terais than in the resolution. The resolution was negatived.
Besides, the Legislalure have full power tu aci in The resolution offered by Mr. Fisher, providing
the case if it were necessary.
that the General Couri should have power to les-
Mr AUSTIN, of Charlestown, hoped the reso- sen, as well as enlarge the salaries of the Governor
lution would pass. If it was now the law of the and Justices of the Supreme Judicial Court when
land, he asked if it was tweniy vcars ago, and if it they shall judge proper and expedient; was disa-
might not be different twenty years hence. It was greed to without debate.
said the Legislature had vower tu alter the com- The resolution providing that no Bank should
mou law. Pat they have not done it If in forty hereafter be incorporated, nor the charter of any
years they have not exercised the power it is existing Bank reocwed, unless the Stockholders
time we should do it for them.
shall be liable in their private capacity, was read.
Mr. BLAKE said it had been stated that the Mr. THORNDIKE opposed the resolution. It
whole subject was well settled try law. He wish- did not determine who were intended, the original
ed to know if it was by the Constitution. What Stockholders, or the Stockholders at the time of
was law 10-day, might not be law 10-morrow. The any defalcation.
Books were full of cases in which the decisions of
Mr. STORY opposėd it. If adopted, no bank
judges were overruled by sticceeding judges, and would ever be establislied unless by a few rich in-
the law of libel was piore likely to be changed dividuals who had perfect confidence in cach
than any others. It was contunded that it should
other; dod it would be in low hands. It would be
is
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
245
1
1
er.
1
sides put it in the power of speculators to establish like their own. If the resolution had only propos."!
Banks, and make a profit from the stock, and to ed to strike out of the Constitution the word
shift all the burden
upon
the
poorer
and least
pro. congregational," he should have been in favor
tected class of people, to widows, minors and or of it, but as it also proposes to confirm the Board
phans, wbo have no share in the direction, and no of Overseers as now constituted, he should vote a-
means of judging of the hazards they run. If the gainst it, that we may retain the Constitution as i
original Stockholders are to be liable--the man now stands.
who sells out will be liable to the amount of his Mr. WEBSTER said it would be affectation in
whole estate for the acts of his successors, He him to express surprise at the opposition of the
may die leaving an independent fortune to his fa-
gentleman from Hingham, although the resolution:
mily and in one year after his death it may be all was in conformity to his own proposition. If the
taken from them for a defalcation in a concern in gentleman had read the Constitution, he would
which he had for years had no interest. It would have perceived that the legislature had the pow-
besides produce no remedy for the evil under ) er, with the consent of the Corporation and Board
which we labor. Bills from other states entitled of Overseers, to make an alteration in the Board
to vastly less confidence than our owit, would sap- of Overseers, according to the act of 1810; which
ply the place of those which this measure would was re-established by.the act of 1814. The select
force out of existence:
committee agreed that the present Constitution of
Mr. Sturgis, Mr. Quincy, Mr. Welles, Mr. Bond the government of the college was safe and effi-
and Mr. Shaw spoke against the "resolution, and cient, and that the state government had as much
Mr. Hoyt said a few words in favor of it.
control over the college as was necessary or prop-
The resolution was negatived 126 10 173.
As far as liis knowledge extended, no litera-
The resolution reported yesterday for confirm- ry institution had ever flourished by being under
ing the charter of Harvard College with a'modifi- the immediate control and management of the civ-
cation was then taken up.
il government. If there was a settled, well regu
MT: VARNUM called for the reading of the lated college government, they would feel a deep-
law of 1314 The law was read, and also an attest- er and more immediate interest in the 'prosperity
ed copy of the acts of the corporation and of the of the college, and would manage its concerns
board of overseers, dated January 3, 1821, signi- with more efficiency, and advantage to the com-
fying their assent to the proposed alteration of the munity. He was astonished to hear the gentleman:
charter.
from Hingham express apprehensions from the en-
Mr. VARNUM said the law of 1814 had never ormous power of this corporation. If he did not
been agreed to at a meeting properly notified. misunderstand him, that gentleman said we should
Mr. WEBSTER said he should prefer not to have a powerful institution built up by the state
take up niuch time now, but'. wished to give the
resolution the necessary passage through the com- Mr. RICHARDSON disavowed having ex-
mittee, and to take it up tomorrow for more full pressed such a sentiment.
consideration when the report would have been Mr, WEBSTER said he did not mean to day,
in the possession of members.
but when the subject was before under discussion,
Mr. RICHARDSON said that he was happy to and he presumed the gentleman had the written,
hear yesterday the ; report on the liberal princi- speech in his pocket, in which he might find the
ples which were now acknowledged in theory: remark, if he would take the trouble to turn to it.
When the subject was first introduced, the gentle- He recollected that the gentleman then moved to
men who úefended the college took the ground | strike out the word 5 congregational” froin the
that the charter could not be altered. He was Constitution, to prevent clergymen of that denom-
happy to learn that this ground was now abandon- llination from having exclusive privileges. This is
ed, and to find that it was agreed that it might be granted to him; and now he says we are taking
altered so as to admit to the corporation ministers away the rights of congregational clergymen. Ali
of other denominations. As far as the resolution that can be done, is to open the door to persons of
proposed to admit the riglit of the corporation to all denominations; the gentleman is not warrant-
elect persons of other denominations, he was in fa- ed in saying that none but congregationalists will
vor of it. But he could not admit that it was ever be admitted. In answer to the gentleman
proper to confirm the board of overseers as it is from Dracut, Mr. W. said the Board of Overseers
now constituted. That board was constituted might be wanting in rules to regulate their proceed-
contrary to the express provisions of the Consti- ings; he would only remark that the meeting held
jution, which established the congregational min- by them, for the purpose of assenting to the law. of":
isters of the neighbouring towns as part of the 1814, was warned in the manner which has been
Board of Overseers. These are excluded by the practised for a long time.
act of 1814 which is now to be confirmed. Noth- Mr. STORY said he had listened with an
ing was gained to other denominations by this ex- sous desire to know the difficulties relating to the
clusion. The Board of Overseers had never made Constitution of the college, and the remedies
such a mistake as to admit among the fifteen. cler- which might be applied to them. When the re-
gymen, a minister of any other denomination. It
It port of the seleat committee was read, and a
was the intention of the Constitution that the Gen- remedy provided for all the difficulties which had
eral Court should always keep the college under been pointed out, he loped the resolution would
itscontrol. The legislature had no power to have passed without opposition. It appeared that
transfer the vested rights of the congregationa!' the college had suffered much in the public opin-
clergy. The act of 1814 will keep the control in lion, from a misrepresentation of the amount of its
the hands of congregationalists The congrega-
The congrega- | funds, and the manner in which they had been ap-
tionalists in the state government voting with the propriated. These misapprehensions were now
thirty permanent overseers, will keep the govern- dispelled. What have been the practical, difficul-
ment of the college ont of the power of the state, ties heretofore ? that the governdient and privileges
All the permanent clerical overseers must be con- of the institution were notopen equally to persons of
gregationalists; no others are thought worthy, al- all denominations. It was not pretended that the
though those who are usually elected much less college was not established by congregationalişts.;.
resemble, in their sentiments, the teaching elders, and congregationalists had done no more than is
than do those of some other denominations. This usual with other sects, when they found an institu-
board, so constituted, is to continue forever, with- tion of this kind. Would any gentleman say that
out any favor to persons who have not a liberality Andover college ought to be subjected to chils-
anx-
1
32
946
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
$
tians of another sect? It was said that Harvard, l be that all denominations of every description
college was the cliild of the state and under its would be introduced. This would bring at the
patronage. He was glad of it, and he was sorry présent moment, forty-four clergymen into the
that its funds had been aided so little by the state, board ; instead of fifteen as at present constituted.
inmuch less than he had supposed, compared with The only mode by which that liberal principle of
the munificent donations of private individuals.-- introdueing gradually other dénominations into the
In regard to the charter, had any man doubted board would be effected, was that existing in the
that the Constitution of 1780 was right? And had present constitution of the college, by election. If
not the alterations made since by the legislature, the right was confined to the six towus, and all de-
in the government of the college, been in confor- nominations admitted, it would make a board, in
mity to the Constitution ? He might have it his which the clerical part would outweigh all the oth-
duty, hereafter, to keep his mind open to every er. In reply to the objection of the gentleman
suggestion, which can be made against the validi- from Dracut (Mr. Varoum) Mr. Q. read an ex-
ty of such acts of the legişlature, but with his pres- | tract from the Appendix to the college charter pas-
ent information on the subject, he thought that the sed in 1656-which provides that the board of
law, made with the consent of the university, es- -visitors might be formed, without summoning those
tablishing the Board of Overseers as it is now members, whose habitations were at a distance,
constituted, was as immoveable as the Constitution which had been construed to extend to the mem-
itself. The gentleman from Hingham says that bers residing in the six neighboring towns.
forty-six members of the Board of Overseers, Mr. DEARBORN of the select committee on
coipposed of the Governor, Lieut. Governor &c. the subject, said he was in hopes, that after the
may be overruled hereafter by the thirty perma- report which had been presented, we should have
nest øembers It was equally true that fiſty can heard no more noise about Cambridge College:-
overrule one bundered and fifty. The gentleman The government of the College acted towards the
too assumes, what is not to be presumed, that the committee in the most liberal manner. They were
fifteen clergymen and fifteen 'laymen appointed disposed to keep nothing back. They wanted
Overseers, will be corrupt men. The notion that the committee to investigate more than the late
confidence cannot be placed in such men iş sub- period of the session would admit of. The clause
versive of all Boards. If any wrong. is done by containing the word” Congregational” being the
ļliem the people cao choose, the next year, a new only one to which an objéction had been made, be
board in part, which will have power to correct hoped the resolution would have removed all dil-
the errors or misdoings of the former Board. A ficulty, He asked, how could it be said that the
great part of the members from the state govern people had not the power over the body of Over-
mert live ata distance from the college. It is a seers, when they elect every year a majority of
great object to have a permanent body to ever- them? What were, the facts detailed in the re-
look the proceedings of the corporation, and a port? That the College had unexhausted funds, the
power is now given to the state to interfere when any gift of the state to the amount of £400 per annum
wrong is required to be corrected. · Abuses would from different bridges over Charles river, and 7000
take place if there were not a permanent body to dollars in wild tands, while the unexhausted dona-
oversee, and there might be danger from this per- tions of individuals were $201,000. One would
manent body, if it could not be controlled by the think that these donations should entitle the donors
government. Gentlemen living at a distance cannot to a little voice in the management of the concerns
conveniently attend the meetings of the Overseers, of the college, and that the civil government
but a new rule can be made, requiring notice to be should not have the whole direction. He thought
given so many days before the time for meeting. it was proper that the government should have
Not a doubt ħad been breathed that any wrong some surveillance, and the present constitution of
had been done by the corporation or Overseers, the college gave them sufficient. "No evil was ex:
and if any doubt had hitherto existed, the present perienced, and the state of the college reflected
report showed that it was without just cause. great honor on the government of it, and on the
Mr. QUINCY, in' reply to the gentleman from commonwealth. He was in favor of the rights of
Hingham, said he was astonished at the course the people as well as other gentlemen ; but he
the debate had taken. He before understood that could not sit quiet and have gentlemen ask one
gentlemen moved to strike out" congregational" ; day for one thing and say they should be satisfied
he now understood that he was the advocate of with it, and then when it is granted to them in.
congregationalists. He now objects that the law crease in their demands.
takes away from the congregational ministers of Mr. TILLINGHAST, of the select committee,
the six neighbouring towus their vested rights - rose to express distinctly that he was satisfied per-
Mr. RICHARDSON explained. He said his fectly with Cambridge College. They showed'a
ground was that if i congregational" should be liberality far beyond his expectation or wish ; they
struck out and the present Board of Overseer's were profuse in communicating information. It
should not be perpetuated, his object would be ef- was as well managed as it could be with the funds
ſected. "If the Board should be perpetuated, it it possessed. As to the particular denomination of
would not.
the college, he had nothing to do with it. He was
Mr. QUINCY said that he understood the gen- entirely satisfied with their liberality, and he hop-
tleman according to his explanation—as also his ed the resolution yould pass without a word in op
other objection that the fifteen layinen and fifteen position to it.
clergymen placed the board of overseers out of Mr. BALDWIN of Boston, said he was not on-
the control of the legislature—which was just say- | ly satisfied with the luminous report, but should
ing that thirty was a majority of seventy-seven. The wish to give both his voice and his vote in favor
whole shows that the gentleman has not analyzed of the resolution. It seemed to him that the law
political, with the same attention he is accustomed of 1814 was the ground on which the institution
to pay to theological subjects. His objection as stood. The only objection to the charter was the
now urged was to the right of divesting the con- restriction respecting the clergy. He had object-
gregational ministers of the six neighbouring ed to that, but not on his own account, for he nev-
towns ; -whereas his former objection was to er expected a seat at the Board of Overseers.--
that right being confined to congregationül minis- That restriction being taken off, he was entirely
Pers.
As to restoring the right to the six satisfied. He had known that young men of his
towns, as such, and striking out" congregational," denoinination had received as much courtesy al
it was ubviously impracticable. The effect would the college as those of the Congregacional de now
MASSACHUSETTSICONVENTION.
247
;
cation.
ination. If the college got into the hands of per-|| all institutions it was the one which we ought to cöl.
sons of different sentiments from those of the orig-1 tivate the most..
inal founders, that was none of his business.
Mr. HUBBARD was satisfied with the first re-
Mr. BOYLSTON of Princeton, said the gentle-port. He saw no necessity of making any altera-
man from Roxbury (Mr, Dearborn) had pearly an. tion. The constitution gives to the legislature the
ticipated all he had to say. He begged gentlemen power of appointing the Board of overseers. This
to consider that about two thirds of the personal power bas existed with the government ever since
property of the college was given by private indi-| the existence of the college, and they have exer:
viduals, of which lie had himself contributed à cised the power. It is a public institution, and tha
small part. He hoped that some respect, some public ought to reserve the power of visitation, or
consideration would be given to the donors in re- the power of appointing the board of overseers.
lation to the management of the institution. He They retained that power to the year 1810: The
expressed his satisfaction with the resolution. board of overseers until that time consisted of men
Mr. AUSTIN, of Charlestown, hoped the vote all appointed for public purposes, including tho
would be unanimous on this resolution. He said congregational ministers of the six neighbouring
that Harvard was from the town he represented towns, constituting á body of men of education, and
that the government originally gave £400, and the acquainted with the interests of literature. The
College had growo up under the patronage of the legislature had no control over the rights and priv-
Legislature. The alteration proposed was one in ileges vested by the charter in the corporation, but
which he cordially agreed. The objection which had the right of visitation. He contended that
had been made respecting the constitution of the there was no necessity for a constitutional pro-
of
vision, relating to congregational clergyment-
gentleman from Salem. It was necessary to have There was no rightsecured to them which was not
overseers in the neighborhood. The overseers equally secured to the ministers of the six towng.
had no pay--the office was rather a hardship, al- He referred to the article of the constitution to
though it was an honcr, and there ought to be no show that they both stand on the same constitua
jealousy respecting the Board. There had gone tional right. If the legislature can take away the
forth jealousies, but they were unfounded. The right of the ministers of the six towns, they can al-
College was the ornament of the land. If so take away the exclusive rights of the congrega-
we did not encourage it, we were injuring tional order. Until the year 1910, it was always
our own interest. We should attract young men in the power of the legislature to change the board
from other parts of the country instead of compel- of overseers without their consent. There never
ling them to go somewhere abroad for an edu- was an act until that time when the consent of the
A suspicion bad gone abroad that the overseers was required. The inference to be
College had enormous funds. There was no foun- drawn hereafter is, that no alteration shall be made
dation for it. He was informed that some of the without the consent of the corporation and over-
scholars were obliged to live out of the Colleges for seers. By this report it is said they consent. He
the want of funds to erect buildings to accommo- was not disposed to adopt this resolution, The
date ihem. While gentlemen were paying liberal- board of overseers, ought to be under the control
ly for the support of a particular doctrine, he hoped of the legislature. It was a public institution súp-
sớme crumbs might fall a little to the westward.-
ting.
.
the College, but they had been long since dissipa- verseers, consist of men, who are wise and virtu-
ted.
ous, he would not take away from future legisla-
Mr. DANA said that the resolution went to de- tures the power to interfere. The report the other
clare that the rights and privileges of the college day was supported by the friends of the college, on
should be confirmed with an addition. He was ready the principle that its chartered rights are protected
to consent to it. He believed that if a new gove | already. If so, they require no constitutional con-
ernment were to be formed independent of existing firmation, and he hoped that no alteration would
rights and privileges, a better could not be devised. be made.
As to the corporation, the committee had disclos Mr. WEBSTER doubted whether the member
ed one of the most extraordinary and honorable last speaking (Mr. Hubbard) would, an furtirer cone
facts in the history of this institution. It had ex- sideration, incline to be bound by the opinion
isted from 1636 to the present time, and not a sin- which he had now,'expressed, as to the legal rights,
gle delinquency had occurred of one of its officers. arising under the several laws and charters. He
The organization of this branch of the government
he was unwilling to change in the smallest degree. || and modify the-board of overseers, at pleasure,
They might have their prejudices, for they were but without its assent, or that of the president and fel-
But the affairs of the institution must be lows. But on this point, there was known to hạve
managed by human agents, and nothing could be been great diversity, of opinion. Legal characters
devised better:. As to the Buard of Overseers was of the first distinction, had heretofore been con-
there a sufficient popular influence? Of the sev- sulted, and had come to a different result, from that
city-six members, forty-six were annually chosen of the honorable member. If the board of over-
hy the people or by the legislature. They must seers were visitors, in the common legal accepta-
have a sufficient control and oversight of the con- tion of that term, there would be great difficulty, he
cerris of the institution. Nothing could be done thought, in, maintaining this right of the legislature,
secretly, and nothing wrong could be done which to interfere at pleasure... The general principle
they could not overrule. The seeds of republican- certainly was, that when either the government, or
ism had been sown so long, and the crop was so an individual founded a college, or other charity,
great, that contrary principles could not exist. No and vested.;. in certain individuals, or in a corpora-
institution could exist without the support of the tion, the property and government of the charity,
public sentiment. How long could the college exist the power of the founder had ceased, and was at
without the assistance of the legislature? The end; except so far as it might have been specially
grant of $100,000 would expire in four years, and reserved. The power of visitation springs from
the college would be obliged to.come back to the the property ; like property it is transferahle by
legislature for further grants, which could annex the grant of the founder, nor can it, in general, be
such conditions to their grants as they should see revokerl, any more than the grant of the property
ût. He wished to dispel all prejudices, and to in- may be revoked. Therefore, ifin the institution of
duce the whole public to love this institution, for of the college, the government had vested the power
pien.
:
-
248
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
5
;
er
of visitation, strictly speaking, in the overseers, it Mr. QUINCY, said a few words in favor of the
certainly was very questionable whether it could resolution.
properly revoke it, without their assent; and as the Mr. RICHARDSON called for a division of the
overseers are persons who take that trust by offi- resolution for the purpose of taking the question on
cial succession, it might not be easy to see how the first part of it.
they could give an assent which should bind their The CHAIRMAN declared it to be incapable of
successors. He, (Mr. W.) was rather inclined to a division,
think that the overseers were not visitors, as the Mr. HUBBARD said, that formerly an act of
common law understands that term. Originally, the Legislature had passed by which the Board of
they appear to have been mere public agents, to
Overseers was enlarged so as to take in the Min-
superintend the public donation ; and when, after- isters of Salem, Danvers, and other towns.
wards, the cbarter was granted, and the president The question was taken on agreeing to the reso-
and fellows incorporated, and vested with powers of lution and decided in the affirmative--227 to 44.
government, it was nevertheless provided, that all The committee rose and reported their disagree-
their acts should be subject to the approbation or ment to the resolution for restricting the appoint-
disapprobation of the board of overseers. This was ment to office of persons who were Counsellors
not analogous to the case of usual visitatorial pow- for regulating the law of Libel-and to restrict the
ers. It was important to observe, that here being power of granting Bank charters-and their agree-
a charter, by which not the scholars, or those who ment to the resolutions relative to the salaries of
were to receive the benefit ef the funds were in-
certain officers--and to the charter of Harvard
corporated, but certain trustees, who were to hold College.
the funds, for the use and benefit of the scholars, The Convention concurred with the committee
no power of visitation, in this case results to the
in their dissagreement to the three first resolutions
founder, by the operation of law. He has parted and on the question whether a time should be as-
with all, as well the government as the property, signed for the first reading of the resolution rela-
except so far as he has expressly reserved it. In tive to the salaries of the Governour and Judges,
general, too, visitors inspect and regulate the ac- Mr. STORY said that the necessary result of
tions of those who partake of the hounty, and not the adoption of the resolution would be a complete
of the trustees. Indeed there are no visitors, where and entire prostration of the whole Judiciary:-
there are trustees, unless expressly provided Every thing in the constitution, for securing the in-
for in the charter or statutes. The pow- dependence of the Judiciary was completely anni-
of visitors,. even where they exist by hilated. Any Legislature without the power of re-
the charter, is not usually concurrent with
moval may, by passing a law to reduce the salaries,
that of the Trustees or Fellows. They maintain a remove the whole bench of judges. It applied to
general inspection ; in some cases make periodical
the present judges and was a violation of the con-
visitation, hear complaints of grievances, and re- traci of every judge now in office with the state;
dress them, and entertain appeals, from the Trus- it was a violation of the constitution of the United
tees or Fellows, or those wbo possess the imme- States, by undertaking to violate one of the inost
diate government of the saciety. But in this case solemn contracts ever entered into. There was al-
the Overseers possess a power of approving or dis- so the greatest injustice in it; there was not a gen-
approving every act of the Fellows,by the original tleman on the Bench who had not made great sa-
Charter. This not being a regular visitatorial pow- crifices in leaving a lucrative profession to accept
er, it might seem to follow, either that the Over- this office. It would be a complete violation of
seers were an integral part of the corporation it- their contract with the state and take away the
self ; or else, a board of public agents, to whose compensation for the sacrifices they had made.-
control, in all cases, the Fellows by their charter What man hereafter of any eminence in his profes-
were expressly made liable.-- In the first case, it sion would accept an appointment to the office, if
would be exceedingly doubtful whether the Legisla- it depended on the breath of the Legislature to say
ture could change the Board without its own con- whether the salary whatever it might be, should
sent; and doubtful, too, how that consent could be reduced to nothing.
be given ; and, in the other case,
it had
Mr. WEBSTER interrupted. He believed the
been argued with great plausibility, to say, no object of the mover had been misapprehended.
more of it, that as the President and Fellows
Mr. FISHER, of Westborough, said he had of-
received their Charter on condition of being ll fered this resolution because the constitution gave
subject to a Board of Overseers, constituted in a
the authority to increase the salaries of the officers
particular manner, one of themselves always to be named, and it had been doubted whether they had
a member of it, their consent should be obtained, authority to diminish them. He thought the rule
before an alteration could properly be made, eith- ought to operate both ways. His idea was that it
er in the numbers, or Constitution of that Board.
should not operate on gentleman that held an of-
He, (Mr. W.) intended to express no opinion on fice; he thought it was allvays understood, that the
these qnestions, although he liad studied them with Legislature should not have the power to reduce
some diligence. There was, no doubt, room for the salary while the person who held the office
difference of sentiments. The original laws and was in.
charters were very short and imperfect; and much
Mr. STORY said it was in the power of the
was left to construction. The committee thought
the course of wisdom was to examine the actual
Legislature to alter the salary in relation to Goro
ernour and all officers but those who hold under the
government of the College as it existed at the pres-
ent moment, under the various provisions of the
tenure of good behaviour, and the salary of judges
charters and laws, and finding that government 10
may be reduced for a futnre officer. All that is
fair and reasonable can be effected now. But the
be a fit and proper one, to establish and confirm it.
He sincerely hoped the Convention would concur
objection was, when a judge comes into office, on a
in this sentiment: Nothing could be more injuri-
salary of $3000, it may the next year be reduced
ous to the College, or indeed to the public, than
to $100. He did not object merely that it applied to
that such an institution should rest on a litigious or
the present judges but to all future judges.--It was
doubtful foundation. The College, in both boards, l judge trymg bis cause and say your livelihood de-
enabling a popular man to hold up his finger to the
had assented to the alteration now recommended.
No other or further change seemed to be desired
pends on your deciding this cause in my faror.
by any body, and universal satisfaction might be
Mr. PRESCOTT again interrupted the speaker.
well anticipated, he trusted, from the adoption of li intended by the mover to be prospective.
The proposition was entirely misunderstood. It was
the resolution.
1
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
249
1
音
​quote; and
Mr. STORY said the proposition admitted of no
should none of us bè voters.
misunderstanding. He could only take it as it was. Mr. WEBSTER said that we always had been
If the gentleman wished to nake an alteration that obliged to pay state taxes, and he presumed that
would apply to the caseof an officer afterwards to be until the millennium we always should. After a
appointed, he could submit such a proposition. considerable debate, in which Messrs. Dana, Til-
Mr. FISHER said he would withdraw the res- linghast, Nichols, Webster, Starkweather, Varnum,
olution.
Blake, Thorodike, Lawrence, of Leominster; Mar-
The PRESIDENT said it could not he with- tin, Lincoln, Apthorp, Saltonstall, Childs and Tur-
drawn. After some further conversation the Con- ner, took a part, Mr. Webster modified his amend.
vention refused to assign a time for a first read- ment so as to read "state or county tax of this
ing of the resolution,
commonwealth.". The amendinent was agreed to.
The resolution relating to the charter of Har- Mr. SALTONSTALL moved to amend by stri-
var College was read a first time and passed, and king out “six” and inserting “ twelve" 'months as
10 o'clock tomorrow assigned for a second reading the term of residence in any town as a qualification
Mr. ALVORD, of Greenfield, moved to recon-
for a yoter
Mr. LINCOLN opposed the amendment.
sider the vote on the second resolution relating to
the Senate in the second reading, for the purpose
Mr. LAWRENCE, of Groton, and Mr. MAR-
of proposing an amendment which he stated." Af-
TIN spoke in favor of it
ter sonie debate the vote was reconsidered.
Mr. DANA said that the practical effect of the 2-
Mr. ALVORD moved to amend the resolution
mendment would be to require in most cases a
by adding "and that the Senators be so apportioned | residence of eighteen months.
among the said districts as that no district may e-
The amendment was agreed to-129 to 124,
lect more than six."
Mr. LINCOLN gave notice that he should to-
Mr. A. said that although there was this limita-
morrow move for a reconsideration of the last
tion in the present Constitution, a true construc-
tion of the amendments now agreed to, would be
At half past 3 o'clock the House adjoarned.
to repeal that limitation. He concluded therefore
that the timitation ought to be incorporated into
the amendment, and for that purpose he had pro-
SATURDAY, JAN. 6.
posed this amendment.
The house met at half past 9 o'clock and the
Mr. PRESCOTT said, that to remove all doubt journal of yesterday was read.
he wished the amendment might be adopted. The House procecded to the further considera-
The amendment was agreed to, and the resolu- lation of the resolution which was under discussion
tion as amended, passed.
yesterday, upon the second reading, relating to the
The first reading of the resolutions relating to qualifications of voters for civil officers.,
the Declaration of Rights was assigned to half past Mr. LINCOLN, of Worcester, in conformity lo
10 o'clock tomorrow.
the notice he gave yesterday, made a motion to re-
Mr. STURGIS gave notice that he should to- consider the vole by which the amendment vas a-
morrow move to rescind that part of the rule which dopted, proposed by the gentleman from Salem, re;
requires that two readings of any proposition to a- quiring twelve instead of six months residence in
mend the Constitution, be on different days. the town where the vote' was to be giveň. Mr. L.
The resolutions relative to the Lieutenant observed that as the constitution now stands, 'do
Governor and Council were severally read and term of residence was required for voters for gov-
passed.
ernor, &c. and one year's residence in the town,
The resolution relating to the qualifications for was required for voters for Representatives. As
voters was read a second time
both these classes of voters were embraced in the
Mr. BOYLSTON opposed the resolution. He resolution there seemed to be a propriety in taking
said it would materially effect the elections in some six months, as the mean between the qualifications
towns, particularly manufacturing towns.
of voters for Governour, &c. and of voters for
Mr. LELAND moved to strike out the word || Representatives, in regard to residence. The o-
"Therein” and inserts within any town or district peration of the amendment which had been adopt-
'in the Commonwealth."
ed, would be to require in many cases a residence
Mr. DANA said the resolution at present did not of cighteen months, on account of the elections
accord with the views of the Committee who re-
being' held in November. This effect would bear
ported it. They did not mean to make it necces- upon a large and respectable class of farmers, who
sary that the tax should be paid in the lown where from the course of husbandry are in the habit of:
the vote was offered.
taking farms and changing their residence in the
Mr. RANTOUL, of Beverly, opposed the amend- spring. It would be hard io deprive this class of
ment on account of the inconvenience it would oc- men, for so long a time, of their right of voting,
éasion in practice. The Selecimen would be oblig; ! merély for going from one town into another; and
ed to decide on the qualifications of the voter and he believed there was not a gentleman in the house,
would have no means of judging.
who would not reject the proposition if it was
Mr. VARNUM supported the amendment. It is brought home to himself; if it was proposed that
would be incumbent on the voter to produce the lie should lose his vote, or be compelled to move
evidence of his right.
in November, the inost inconvenient season in the
Mr. MARTIN was opposed to the amendment year. If it was required only that a voter should
and resolution altogether.
reside twelve months in the commonwealth, he
The amendment was agreed to-130 to 90. should assent; but to provide that the residence
Mr. WEBSTER noved to åbend by adding the for that term should be in the town where the e-
words." to the commonwealth.” Mr. W. was wild loction is to be lield, was inexpedient and unjust.
ling to agree to the principle on which this resolu- Mr. LELAND, of Roxbury, said it was impor.
tion had been supported, that every person who tant in providing for qualifications of voters, to
contributes to the support of governinent shall be inake the rule as simple as possible. Whether a vo-
entitled to vote-but the principle was departed ter had a residence or not would be a question of
from it they were not required to pay a tax to the fact to be determined by the Selectmen, and if sıx
commonwealth.
month's residence only was required, as the taxes
Mr. SIBLEY, of Sulton, opposed the amend- were assessed in May, and the elections were to be
ment. He hoped that we should not always have held in November, the Selectmen would only have
to pay a coñimonivealth tax. In that case we to look at the books of the assessors for proof of
1
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22
!
250
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
the residence. It would be matter of record; butll be held over him to keep him from relapsing.
if the time was enlarged, the Selectmen would Mr. BLAKE was in favor of the resolution as
have to resort to a different and less satisfactory reported by the committee and against the amend-
kind of evidence. He loped the motion to recon- ment, Transient persons would not have the
sider would prevail.
right of suffrage wherever they happened to be.
Mr. SALTONSTALL said his design was to It was requisite that they should be citizens.
prevent vagrants and strangers from voting, who Mr. B. was answered that by the constitution of
had no knowledge or interest in our state con- the-U.S. the citizens of one statę have the rights
eerns. He should however wish the vote to be re- of a citizen in any other.
considered, in order that he might substitute an a- Mr. B. proceeded. In looking over the consti-
mendment which he thought might accord with the tutions of the other states, he found that in most of
views both of the gentleman from Worcester, and them, nothing but an inhabitancy was required.
the gentleman from Roxbury. He should move to If a person resided here six months and paid a tax
amend so as to require a residence of a year in the he ought to have a right to vote,as much as if he had
commonwealth and six calendar months in the
had ayear's residence He should beunwilling to have
town or district where the election was held.
Massachusetts on aless favorable footing than her
The vote was reconsidered and Mr. Saltonstall
sister' states, in regard to this fundamental privil-.
moved his new amendment.
ege of a freemar.
Mr. VARNUM, of Dracut, hoped it would not Mr. LINCOLN said in answer to the gentle.
prevail. He said that men who come into the state
man from Dracut, that since yesterday he had be-
io let themselves out to labour, usually came in A. come satisfied that a person coming from another
pril and were taxed in May for the whole year, state into this commonwealth, to let himself out to
and they ought to have a right to vote after six
labour for six months, with an intention of return-
month's residence. The usual term of hiring how- ing when his term of service expires, had no inter-
ever, was for six months, so that nine tenths of
est in the government; that he was merely the
such labourers would be gone out of the.common- creature of his employer. With respect to persons
wealth before the time of the elections.
having a permanent residence in the common
Mr. APTHORP, of Boston said he was in favor
wealth, this resolution would permit a man going
of the amendment adopted yesterday and had ad- from a town in one extremity of the commonwealth
yocated it in the committee--but it had not been
to a town in the other, to have the same right of
his good fortune to be in the majority in the com- voting in the latter, by residing there six months,
mittee. It should be recollected that this resolu-
that he would have had in the former, if he had not
tion abolishes the pecuniary qualification required changed his residence. In answer to the gentle-
in the constitution. There would be some difficul-
man from Boston, he observed that this amend-
1y in scttling the fact of residence, and the longer'll ment did not alter the principle in the resolution
the time required, the better would probably be the
reported by the committee. The qualification of
character of the voter, and the betterchance would residence did not affect the pecuniary qualifica-
the Selectmen häre of ascertaining his qualification. In answer to the gentleman fr m Deerfield,
tions. He should vote against the amendment for
who preferred the constitulion as it is, he said it
the purpose of substituting nine months residence
was necessary to make some change in the quali-
Mr. SALTO, STALL said the gentleman from fication of yoters to conform to the alteration a-
Dracutmight not have experienced the evil which
dopted respecting the union of towns for the choice
was often felt by the large towns, of hundreds of
of Representatives. He was in favor of this a-
men coming iu from New-Hampshire in the spring mendment, in whatever view he might regard the
and voting in our elections, just alter they have vo- whole resolution.
ted in the elections in their own state. Requiring
The amendment was adopted_297 to 2.
a year's residence in the commonwealth was reas-
onable, in order that we may know them and that
The resolution then passed as amended.
The resolution respecting Harvard College was
thiey may hecome domiciliated. No complaiut had
read a second time and passed without a division.
ever been made in requiring a year's residence to
entite a person to vote for Representatives. Was
The House proceeded to the consideration
of the resolutions of the select committee on
there any thing unreasonable in denying to these
birds of passage all those riglits and privileges be-
the Declaration of rights, as reported by a commil-
tee of the whole.
linging to a fixed residence? The gentleman from
The first resolution was read as follows
Dracut seemed to think that the riglit o: roting
was the only equivalent for paying a tax. Mr. S. Resolved, That it is proper and expedient
said the provision in the amendment appeared to so far to alter and amend the Constitution
him one of the most reasonable and best that
of this Commonwealth, in the Declaration of
could be devised The year's residence in the
commonwealth would give the voters an opportu- ||Rights, as to provide, that the word “ citi-
nily of becoining acquainted with the characier of
zen" or person” be substituted for the
the candidates and the six months residence in the word “ subject” where it occurs in the said
town would enable the assessors to become ac-
Declaration in the sense of either of the first
quainted with the voters to assess their taxes.
mentioned words respectively.
Mr. MARTIN spoke against the amendment
This resolution which was disagreed to in com-
and the resslution. He preferred the old consti.
mittee of the whole, was refused a second reading.
tation,
The second resolution which was agreed to in
Mr. HOYT, of Deerfield said he hoped if the
committee of the whole, viz,
resolution should pass, that twelve months resi-
dence would be required, but he preferred the Resolved, That it is proper and expedient
provision in the constitution. This resolution further to amend and alter the Constitutions
would deprive many persons of the privilege of vo-
ling, who were possessed of but little property,
so as that part which invests the Legislature
whom the assessors in their discretion usually omit
with power to enjoin on individuals an at-
to assess. In regard to persons under guardian- tendance on public worship may be annul-
ship, he said there were some who pay taxes and led and rendered no longer obligatory,
who ought to have a right to vote ; for instance, was read and passed to a second reading.
a man put under guardianship Sor intemperance, The third resolution agreed to in committee of
who becoincs temperate, bul yel re quires a rod ſo the whole was read as follows, viz :
moms
i
;
4
MASSAGHUSETTS CONVENTION. .
Resolved, That it is proper and expedient shall choose to separate himself, frow the
-- further to alter and amend the Consitution society or denomination to which he may be.
so as to provide, that as the happiness of a long, and shall leave a written notice thereof,
people and the good order and preservation with the Clerk of such society, he shali
of civil government, essentially depend upon thereupon be no longer liable for any future
piety, religion, and morality; and as these expenses, which may be incurred by said sa-
cannot be generally diffused through a com- ciety.
munity but by the institution of the public And every denomination of Christians de-
worship of God and of public instruction in meaning themselves peaceably and as good
piety,religion,and morality : Therefore, to pro- citizens
of the Commonwealth, shall be e-
mote their happiness and to secure the good qually under the protection of the law, and no
order and preservation of their governinent, subordination of any one sect or denomina-
the people of this Commonwealth have a tion to another shall ever be established by
right to invest their Legislature with power law.
to authorize and require, and the Legislature Mr. CHILDS said this resolution was in sub-
shall, from time to time, authorize and ré- stance the same as the one he had before offered,
quire the several Towns, Parishes, Precincts,
which was discussed in committee of the whole.
and other bodies politic, and religious so-
He did not wish to take up the time of the house;
he would only say that he remained of the same
cieties, incorporated and unincorporated, to opinion. It was the object of the whole Conven-
make suitable provision at their own expense tion to have public worship supported.; members
for the institution of the public worship of differed only about the means of coming at it.-
God, and for the support and maintenance
This resolntion was in his view better adapted for
that purpose than the provisions in the Constitu-
of public christian teachers of piety, religion, lion. He moved that the question on the amend-
and morality, in all cases where such pro- ment be taken by yeas and nays. Agreed 10--104
vision shall not be made voluntarily.
voting in favor.
Provided, notwithstanding, that the sever-
Mr. TILLINGHAST, of Wrentham, spoke in
favor of the amendment. There was a general
al Towns, Parishes, Precincts, and other
L'he
bodies politic, and religious societies, incor- / tendency in the public mind to toleration.
country would never be happy, and enjoy pure and
porated and unincorporated, shall, at all times undefiled religion until every rag of this thing cal-
have the exclusive right of electing their led superstition, bigotry and law religion were
public teachers and of contracting with them stripped from off the civil arm. Religion would
for their maintenance.
always be supported if it was of sufficient conse-
quence to be supported. Religion was essential to
Mr. CHILDS, of Pittsfield, moved to amend by
the support of civil government, but there was no
substituting for the 3d and 4th resolution, the fol-
neccessity for its heing connected with it.
lowing, viz:
Mr. ENOCH MUDGE, of Lynn, . rose merely
As the happiness of a people and the good for the purpose of correcting an error in a state-
order and preservation of civil government, ment made on a former day by the gentleman from
essentially depend upon piety, religion, and Boston, (Mr. J. Phillips,) that the congregationists
morality, and as these cannot be generally || proportion of 450 to 150. Mr. M. said there were
in this state were to all other denominations in the
diffused through a community, but by the of Congregationalists, 373 societies, Baptists,. 153,
public worship of God; and as the publie Methodists 67, Friends 39, Episcopalians 22, Uni-
worship of God will be best promoted, by re- versalists 21, of other sects, 23-making the Con-
cognising the unalienable right of every man, // gregational societies to all other societies in the
to render that worship in the mode most con-
proportion of 373 to 325; and he believed it would
be found that there was even less difference than
sistent with the dictates of his own conscience: || this, if there were means for ascertaining the pubi-
Therefore no person shall by law be compel-bers accurately.
led to join, or support, nor be classed with, or Mr. LINCOLN, of Boston, said the amendoient
associated to any congregation, or religious of the gentleman from Piusfield contained the sub-
society whatever; but every person now be-
stance of what he wanted, but it was not allogether
agreeable in its details. It contained the generaci
longing to any religious society, whether in-
principle of exemption frón compulsory taxation
corporated or unincorporated, shall be con-
for the support of religion in the New Testament,
sidered a member thereof, until he shall our Saviour says, his Kingdom is not of this world.
have separated himself therefroin, in the man-
We had no right to interfere in the Kingdom of
Christ. He firmly believed, that if this provision in
ner herein after provided. And each and
the Constitution was expunged, we should have
every society, or denomination of Christians, less corruption and litigation, and religion would
in this state, shall have and enjoy the same be better supported. If he did not helieve this, he
and equal power, rights, and privileges, and should be the last to raise his voice in favor of it;
shall have power and authority, to raise mo-
but he sincerely believed the political salvation of
the Commonwealth depended upon it. It was bet-
ney, for the support and maintenance of re-
ter that the government should be supported by
ligious teachers of their respective denomin- | religion than religion by the government. Our re-
ations, and to build and repairhouses of pub- ligion was a persuasive one; and it was better to
lic worship by a tax on the members of any
leave it to the influence of persuasion. The report
It
such society only, to be laid by a major vote
of the Select Committee was - too indefinite.
gave the Legislature. unliniited power 'to say in
of the legal voters assembled at any society
what manner suitubleprovision should be made. He
meeting, warned and held according to law. woull not show distrust in the Legislature, but it
Provided nevertheless, that if any person was proper that funducental principles should be
252
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
recognised in the Constitution. In this favored me. Endicott, Estabrook, Fay'
, Í. Fisher, I. Fish-
tropolis, every thing was enjoyed that was wanted er, Flint, Fobes, Foote, Foster, Fox, Fra-
by the proposed amendment. The consequence was zer, J. Freeman, R. Freeman, S, Freeman,
that no people contributed more liberally, because French, H. Gardner, A. Gates, Gibbs, God-
they contributed voluntarily. He referred to the frey, J. Greene, Greenleaf, Gurney, E. Hale,
controversy between Mr. Barnard & Mr.Robinson. N. Hale, N. Hall, A Hamilton, W. Harris, Heard,
The latter said to the former, that he wanted noth- Hedge, Hills, Hinckley, S. Hoar, S. Hoar, Jr.
ing but voluntary contributions. This looked like Holden, Hopkins, N Houghton, Howes, s. s.
liberty of conscience'; such liberty he hoped Howland, Hoyt, S. Hubbard, E. Hubbard, Hum.
would prevail throughout the Commonwealth phrey, W. Hunewell, J. Hunewell, W. Hunt, C.
as it did in this metropolis. Mr. L. saud Jackson, J. Jackson, A. Jewitt. med. Jewili, Jones,
the state of religion in Rhode Island had been un- Judu, Kasson, Kellogg, J.G. Kendall, James Keyes,
justly represented the other day by the gentleman John Keyes, E. King, 'S. G. King, Knowles, Law-
froni Salen. He believed no part of the country son, Lalliron, L. Lawrence, B. Lawrence, Leach,
was more blessed by the spirit of religion-last Leland, M. Little, J. Little, J. Locke,John Locke,
year two thousand persons were added to the Longley, Low, J. Lyman, Marston, T. Mason,
churches, and he believed there was as great a pro- Messinger, Morton, J. Noyes, N. Noyes,, Oakes,
portion of real Christians there as in any other part Paige, J. Parker, Parris, Pelham, Pick-
of the country. He believed ihat in this common- man, A. Pierce, V. Pierce, E. Phelps, J. Phil-
wealth, if compulsion was not used, men would lips, W. Phillips, Phipps, Pike, Pomeroy, Pope,
give twenty dollars where they now give five, for M. Porter, S. Porter, B. Pratt, N. Pratt, Prescott,
the support of religion. He hoped therefore the J. Prince, of Boston, Quincy, Rantoul, J. Reed, s.
amendment would prevail.
Reed, Reeves, J. Richards, N. Richards, E. Rich-
Mr COLBY, of Manchester, said he hoped ardson, J. Richardson, Joseph Richardson,
the amendment would sot prevail.
A great
Robbins, B. Russell, Saltonstall
, E. Sampson,
deal of speculation would be the consequere.- Sanger, Sargent, Sanders, Saunderson, Savage,
The town in which he lived had lost $10,000 by the Sawyer, Shaw, Shepley, Shillaber, A. Smith,
law of 1811. Sectarians came there with their Starkweather, Stearns, Stickney, J. Stone, of
certificates of membership, selling them for a Hardwicke, Jos. Story, J. Story, 4ih, Stowell,
quarter of a dollar apiece; and if they could not Sturgis, R. Sullivan, 1n. Sullivan, Talt, z.
get that, they would let then go for nine-pence. Thompson, Thorndike, C. Tilden, J. Tilden, Tor-
The question was then taken by yeas and rey, 'Trowbridge, Trull, Tuckerman, Turner,
nays, upon the amendinent offered by Mr. Varnum, N. Wade, Wakefield, L. Walker, Wal-
CHILDS, and decided
decided in the negative ;- ton, A. Ward, Ware, R. Webster, D. VVebster,
YEAS:-Messrs. Aldrich, E. Allen, Almy, Anthony, Webber, J. Welle- of Boston, J. Wells, of Wil-
Arms, Atherton,Bachelder, J.Baldwin, T. Baldwin, liamsburg, S. A. Wells, A. Whitney, J. Whitney,
E. D. Bangs, Barker of Methuen, Enoch Bartlett, || W. Whitney, S. White, C. White, A. Whitman,
Barrett, Bassett,Beach, S. Boyden, Brownell,Saml. J. Whitman, D. Whitman, Wlriton, Whitaker',
Bullock, Bugbee, Cannedy, Chamberlain, Childs, Wilde, E. Williams, Willis, Winship, E. Wood,
J. Y. Clark, Collamore, L. Cook, Crandon, c. J. Ilyics, Young—246.
Cummings, Daggett, D. Dana, P. Dean, Dearborn, The question recuriing upon the 3d resolution,
Dunbar, Dunham, B. Ellis, Evans, Farnham, Mr. Flint of Reading moved to strike out the words
Farwell, Felt, S. Field, R. Field, Fish, N. Fishei, 6 and unincorporated.”
Forward, Fowle, Frink, Fuller, Gale, Z. Gates, D. Mr. JACKSON, of boston said he had been èx-
Gray, E. Green, Gregory, D. Hale, S. Hall, B. Hall, amining the resolution with a view to putting it in-
H. Hamilton, T. Harris, Hazard, Hcarsey, Hill, to form for submitting it to the people, and he
found that it contained nothing that was not in sub-
Hyde, Kempton, Kent Kittredge, B. Knight, stance already in the Constitution. It was un-
Knowlton, J. Leonard, Lester, H. Lincoln, T. doubtedly the intention of the committee to make
Lincoln, L. Lincoln, Lovejoy, Makepeace, Martin, an alteration in this part of constitution to make it
Mellville, Miller, D. Mitchell, Morse, Enoch Mudge, conformn to the alterations proposed in another res-
Ezra Mudge, Nelson, Nickerson, Nichols, Nye,O1- olution ; but that resolution being negatived, the
ney, Page, L. M.Parker, Parks, Pickens,Picket, L. present becañe inoperative. The only new prin-
Pierce, Pierson, M. Phelps, A. Porter, C. Powers, ciple which would seem to be introduced, was that
S Pratı, Reynolds, Rider, D. Russell, J. Russell, the Legislature should liave the same power to
A. Sampson, Seaver, Shepherd, Sibley, Sisson, H provide for the duties of unincorporated societies
Slocumb, B. Smitli, C. Smith, P.Sprague, J. Spurr, as for those of incorporaled societies This the
F. Stebbins, L. Stebļains, Stone, of Stow and Box- Legislature lad already; for the Constitution says
boro, Storrs, Talbot, R.B. Thomas, A. Thompson, religious societies, and this includes all religious so-
T. T'hompson, jr. Thurber, Tillinghast, Tinkham, cieties, whether incorporated or unincorporated.-
Townsend, Talts, Tyler, J. ivade, IFaiter, Water- Before the law of 1811, no unincorporated socie-
man, Wheeler, W. Whipple, E. Whipple, N.W. ties were acknowledged by the Constitution, but
Williains, S. Willard, Windsor, Wm. Wood-136. that law bąving recognised them, the provision of
"NAYS.-Messrs. Ábbott, Josiah Adams, J. Allen, the constitution must apply to them. Some gentle-
P. Allen, Allyne, Alvord, Apthorp, W. Austin, J. inen might think that the law of 1811 should be in-
Bacon, Jos. Bacon, Bailey, Banister, R. Bangs, Z. | corporated into the Constitution ; but in that case
Barker of Andover, G. Barstow, G. Barstuw, jr. no power would remain to future legislatures to
G. Bartlett, A. Bartlett, B. Bartlet, w. Bartlett
, remedy. any grievancés evasions or abuses that may
J. Bartlett, jr. Billings, G. Bl.ke, J. Blake, jr. W. grow up under it. Some had praised that law and
Blanchard, jr. J. Bond, G. Boud, Bowdoin, Bow- Others had censured it. Be had had fears of its
man, Boylston, Boyse, Bramhall, P. C. Brooks, S. effcct, but it had not operated as he had appre-
Brooks, R. Bullock, Č. Burts, Cary, Cheney, J. hended, and no great evil bad fiowed from it. - II
Clark of Ward, J. Clark of Walthain, Cleaveland, effects may however take place hereafter, and it
Colby, Coolidge, Conkey, Conani, Cotion, Cre- was wiser to leave the power with the Legislature,
hore, Crocker, Cutler, S. Dana, D. Davis, 'N. M. to provide a remedy for them. He did not want
Davis, J Davis, Dawes, R. Dean, Derby, Dewey, to iptroduce a clause to restrain the Legislature
E. Dickenson, E. Doane, J Doane, J. C. Doane, from altering their own law or even repealing, it,
Dodge, S Draper,jr. J. Draper, W. Dution, D. Dat- if circumstances should render it expedient. If lie
tun, Eames, Edwards, 19. Ellis, R. L'ells, was right however, in his first position that this
1
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
253
:
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It was
.
resolution made no change, he lioped the gentle- || 'There would be no evil in putting unincorporated
man would withdraw his motion, and his purpose societies within the pale of the constitution. It was
would be effected by the house refusing to pass the of vast consequence to satisfy a laige portion of
resolution to a second reading.
the community, that their religious rights stand oni
Mr. BALDWIN of Boston moved to amend by the same foundation as those of other denomina-
inserting the following, viz. whenever any person tions. It would create great harmony. He was in
shall become a member of any religious society, the Speaker's chair when the law of 1811 was pass-
corporate or unincorporate, within this common- ed. He never say greater excitement than existed
wealth, such membership shall be certified by a at that time'; but it had very much gone down. The 1st
committee of such society, chosen for this purpose, sectionof the act of 1811 would not be liable to abuse,
and if filed with the clerk of the town where he but the one proposed as an amendment was objection
dwells, such person shall forever after be exempt- able for that reason. It would not be sound policy
ed from taxation for the support of public worship for those who think religious worship ought to be
and public teachers of religion in every other re- maintained, to remove all the power of regulation 1
ligious corporatiou whatsoever, so long as he shall from the Legislature. There was a jealousy that
continue such membership. Mr. B. observed that Congregationalists have views of aggrandizement
this amendinent was contained in the 2d section of unfavorable to the minority, He did not believe
the act of 1811.
such views were entertained by the Congregation-
The motion was determined by the President, to al denomination, but he would prevent any suspi-
be out of order, not having passed through a com- cion of the kind. He would go as far as any one
mittee of the whole.
to allay the excitement which had been produced..
Mr. BALDWIN said he would be governed by There was reasonable ground for the excitement
the decision of che President. The question on when the construction of the constitution which
this amendment would try the sincerity of the gen- had prevailed for thirty years was overiurned in
tlemen who say the law of 1811 will never be re- 1810. He asked if gentlemen were willing to have
i pealed. He apprehended the gentleman from this excitement go on.
Boston was mistaken in saying the constitution Mr. NICHOLS of South Reading moved an am
never acknowledged unincorporated societies until mendment similar to the proposition made_after-
this act. The Constitution did acknowledge them wards by Mr. Fay as a new resolution.
until the decision in the case of Falupouth. He would decided to be out of order, not baving been in
move to go into committee of the whole iſ there committee of the whole in the same form as now
was no other way of ascertaining the sense of the moved,
house on the amendment.
Mr. HOAR moved an amendment proposing to
Mr. BLAKE, of Boston, said the gentleman substitute Christian for Protestant. Decided to
from Boston (Mr. Jackson) was correct in saying
be out of order for the same reason.
that the words incorporated or unincorporated were
Mr. BALDWIN moved that the present resolu-
adopted by the Select Committee, in connexion tion should lie on the table, in order that he might
with the other amendments proposed. There was move to have his proposition conimitted to a come
anotheralteration proposed in this resolution, which mittee of the whole.“ Negatived.
fiad escaped the gentleman, that of substituting the Mr. VARNUM said if he had not been assigned
wordChristian for Protestant, in order to putCath- Il to a duty which was incompatible with his taking
olics on the same footing with other Christians. any part in the debate, he should not have had oco
Mr.JACKSON said he intended to mention that casion to detain the convention at this late period.
the motion made by the gentleman from Concord He would make no professions of his regard for
on a foriner day, might be renewed in relation to religion, he was willing that his conduct should
the change of Protestant to Christian.
speak for itself. Nor would he make any invidious
Mr. STORY of Salem, said he should oppose distinctions between the different sects or denomic
striking out the words runincorporated. For thirty nations of cbristians in the commonwealth. He
years there had been a construction, that religious wished to live in fellowship with them all as far as
societies” in the constitution included unincorporat- their principles were consistent with pure morality
ed as well as incorporated societies. There had and the good of society. He wished that gentle-
been a case in which it had been decided upon sol- men would all unite and adopt something that would
emo argument and vpon a review that this was the give satisfaction to all denominations. For this
intention of the constitution, and this construction purpose he hoped they would do away all technical
continued to be acted upon until the case of Barnes difficulties, and give a fair discussion before the
us the first parish in Falmouth, wlaen a different convention to the proposition of the gentleman from
construction was adopted. He did not hesitate to Boston (Mr. Baldwin.). It was a subject dear to
say the first was a reasonable and fair, if not a le- the people at large, and they had expected that it
gal construction, and he chose to have the word would be fully deliberated on. It was for the ben-
unincorporated inserted into the constitction to efit of all parties that we should act with that spirit
bring it back to the construction originally given of conciliation that all might go home satisfied. If
to it. He would not leave the subject in the pow. there was any difficulty in the third article, now
er of the Legislature, As long as the law of '1811 was the time to correct it. As to the first part, all
existed, this construction was inaintained; but the agree in what is our duty in relation to public wor-
Legislature might repeal the act tomorrow. For- ship. We go along together until we come to the
merly there was hardly an incorporated society a- difficulties arising from the difference of sects and
long the whole seaboard. Wherever public wor- ..
denominations. He wished that every thing like
ship was maintained,he wished the members of un- distinction might be done away, and that we might
incorporated societies to have the same right as come together like a band of brothers. If there is
those of incorporated societies, of having the tax- a difficulty in the constitution, why not cure it?
es paid to the persons on whose instruction they What has been already done, only places the thing
attended. There were objections to the amend- where it now stands. It has been decided by the
ment offered by the gentleman from Boston, (Mr. supreme court that before the law of 1811, no so-
Baldwin)-It would be liable to abuse. He would do ciety was within the meaning of the article, unless
no more than recognize the principle that unincor- it was incorporated. It had been the practice to
porated Societies may exist, leaving the regula- tax every person, in the parish where he lived,
tion of them as it was before 1810. The facts, however much he might pay for the support of his
whether there was a minister, or a religious socie- own teacher. After burdening the parishes with
ty, would be deterrained by a court and jury... collectiog from persons belonging to other societas
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MASSACHUSETTS. CONVENTION,
the ministerial taxes assesksed on them, a lawsuit | pass. To put unincorporated societies on the foct-
was often necessary to restore the money to the re- ing of those which are incorporated would have r
ligious teacher, to whom it was appropriated. He conciliatory tendency, and he thought it would be
aluded to a case, in which a man was taxed four for the interest of the community at large. It would
dollars, which he paid to the parish treasurer, and set at rest the future legislation, on what should be
it was only after a series of lawsuits, which lasted considered a society at law. Engrafting this prin-
four years, at an expense of one hundred dollars ciple into the constitution would induce persons-
to him, and as much more to the parish, that he opposed to the article as it stands, to believe that
Succeeded in having it appropriated to the teacher some attention was paid to their wishes.
pſ his own society. He contended that every per- Mr. WILLIAMS, of Beverly, considered it his
son should be taxed only by their own denomina- duty to give his last testimony on this subject. This
tion, and that the parish ought not to be put to the resolution met-his approbation as far as it went.
trouble of levying and collecting a tax, nor the re- But he did not believe that it would conciliate the
ligious teacher, or the person paying it, to the trou- feelings of the people of the cominonwealth. It
ble of getting the money back. He thought there- was but one step, and others must be taken before
fore, that the proposition of the gentleman from the people would be satisfieds In the former de-
Boston ouglat to have a fair hearing. The law of bate, gentlemen had expressed their satisfaction
1811 had given relief, but it was only a law, and if with the law of 1811. He thought it important.
he could judge from ihe opinions that had been ex- ihat the principle of that law should be adopted in
pressed, attempts would he made to repeal it, and connection with this resolution,
to place the subject on its former footing. He ask- The question was taken and the resolution pass-
ed why the towns of Boston, Salem, and Newbury- ed to a seconl reading—211 to 72.
port should have an exclusire privilege. What ob- The fourth resolution disagreed to in committee
jection was there to making that law.a part of the of the whole, was read as follows:-
third article It had been contended by many
4th. Resolved, That it is proper and expe-
gentlemen that it would never be repealed. Make
it a part of the constitution so that it cannot be re-
dient further to alter and amend the Consti-
pealed—the people would be satisfied and it would tution so as to provide, that all monies paid
do no harm to any body. He was astonished that so by the citizen to the support of public wor-
many gentlemen from the town of Boston were op-
ship, and of the public teachers aforesaid,
posed to every thing that gives full religious toler-
ation. lie did not know why any gentleman from
shall, if he require it, be applied to the sup-
Boston, Salem, or Newburyport should oppose port of public worship where he shall attend,
even the proposition cf the gentleman from Pitts- or the public teacher or teachers on whose
field. But he (Mr. V.) thought that was going too instruction he attends, whether of a society
får. He was surprised to hear his bonorable friend
from Boston on the right of the chair (Mr. Phil-
incorporated or unincorporated, provided
lips) the other day, invoke those of the
there be any on whose instruction he attends;
congrega-
tional order to come round and support the stand-
otherwise it shall be paid towards the support
ard of their fathers. He did not believe that
aily of public worship and of the teacher or teach-
prayers of that kind would be heard. He was sor-
ers of the Parish or Precinct in which the
l'y to hear the able, honest and candid gentleman
from Concord express the opinions he did the oth-
said monies are raised. Provided, however,
er day. He esteemed him for his abilities and his that any inhabitant of any parish, or member
candor. He told us fairly that the only true way of any religious society, whether incorporat-
was to tax every person within the parish lines and ed or not, may at all times unite himself to
to let
persons of the different denominations scram-
ble for their share of it. He admired the gentle.
any society within this Commonwealth, in-
man but abborred the principle. It put the parish
corporated for the support of public worship,
to the expense of getting the money, and persons of having first obtained the consent of such
other sects to the difficulty of getting it back again. society with which he shall so unite himself.;
It was the same principle which in other countries
and having procured a certificate, signed by
had brought the guilloine, rack, and faggot into
operation. The gentleman did not mean it; he
the Clerk of such society to which he hath
knew, and was willing to acknowledge the fairness
so united himself, that he hath become a
of his motives, but is was his duty to judge of the member thereof, and filed the same in the
principle. He never was better pleased than when office of the Clerk of such Parish or Society
the hon. chief justice and his honorable associate
to which he hath belonged and in which
on the bench, the other day came forward and in
so manly a manner advocated the rights of con-
such monies are raised, he shall not, while he
science and universal toleration. If their language
shall remain a member thereof, be liable to
on that occasion was recorded in letters of gold and the support of public worship or of any pub-
written up on every man's door, it would teach a
lic teacher, except in the society of which
most useful lesson to the people of this common-
wealth. He was happy also to see the Rev. gen-
he hath so become a member, but shall be
tlemen of the congregational order, from Boston
bolden to be taxed in the society with which
and Chelsea, disposed to do every thing in their lle hath so united himself, until he shall cease
power to pronote the desirable object. He thought to be a member thereof.
that every thing like an intolerant spirit in religion Provided, also, that whenever any number
was fast doing away, and he trusted that before
long, men of all denominations would be willing to
of persons, not less than twenty, shall have as-
worship together. He wished to do every thing to
sociated themselves together for the purpose of
promote this harmonious spirit, and to adopt a maintaining public worship and public relig-
pripciple which would permit men of all parties to iousinstruction and shall have made and sign-
retire from this convention satisfied.
M. WALKER, of Templeton, said the subject
ed an agreement in writing under their hands
bad so long engaged the attention of the house, declaring such purpose, and shall have caus-
that he thought genilenen were prepared to come ed a copy of such agreeinent to be filed in
lo a decision. He loped the resolution would the office of the Clerk of the Town or Towns
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
055
to which they shall respectively belong; they || and except the militia in actual service, but
shall, in regard to the support of public wor- by Legislative authority.
ship and the maintenance of public teachers, These resolutions were severally refused a second
have all the powers and be subject to all the reading without a division.
On motion of Mr. STURGIŞ, "in pursuance of
duties of Parishes within this Commonwealth;
notice given yesterday, tie 5th rule of the 4th
and all persons so associated, while they con- Chapter, which required that resolutions propos.
tinue members of such society, shall nowe lia- ing any alteration in the constitation, should be
ble to be taxed elsewhere for the support of pub- read on two several days, was recinded.
It was ordered that the resolutions relating to
lic worship or of any public teacher of piety,
the Declaration of Rights, be now nead. a second
religion, and morality. And any person may time.
become a member of such society, so united The 2d resolution was then read the second time
and certified as aforesaid, if such society shall and passed.
The 3d resolution was read.
consent thereto, and after he shall have pro-
cured and filed in the office of the Clerk of
Mr. FLINT moved to amend by striking out the
words and unincorporated." He made some re:
the Town to which he shall have helonged, marks in support of the motion, and Mr. Varnum
a certificate, signed by a committee, or the spoke against it.
Clerk of such Society of which he shall have The motion was lost.
Mr. FAY moved to amend the resolution, so' as
so become a member, that he has become a
to provide tliat all monies paid by the subject, for i
inember of such Society, and attends public
the support of public worship and of the public
worship with them, shall not be liable to be
teachers of piety, religion and mornlity, shall; if he
taxed elsewhere for any money raised after request it; be applied to the public teacher or teach-
he shall have filed such certificate, so long as
ers,
il any, on whose instruction he attends,.whethr
he continues a member thereof and shall at-
er of the same, or of a different denomination from
that in which the money, is raised. His purpose in
tend public worship with such society; and moving the amendment was to place congregation,
shall while he is a member thereof be holden alists on the same footing with persons of other de-
to contribute to the support of public worship nominations, and to make the 3d article consistent
and of the public teacher or teachers in said throughout. The article as it now stands compels
society.
a person to remain united with a society, differing
from him in sentiment, or to become of a different
Mr. STURGIS moved an indefinite postpone- sect. He proceeded to show that there are differ.
ment of the resolution.
ences'of opinion between persons of the same de-
The motion was carried, 167 to 144.
nomination, more material than those wbich divide
The 5th resolution was then read, as follows. most of the denominations.
15th. Resolved, That it is proper and expe-
Mr. SALTONSTALL said this was one of the
dient further to alter and aniend the Consti-
most important questions which had been proposed
in relation to the 3d article. If the amendment was
tution so as to provide, that every person shall.) adopted, it would reduce to a nullity all that had
have a right in criminal prosecutions to be been done it would make the 3d article a dead
fálly heard in his defence by himself and his letter. It was made the duty of the Legislature to
counsel.
call on societies in their corporate capacity to make
The resolution passed, 184 to 70.
provision for tlie support of public worship. But
this proposition would put it out of the power of
The sixth, seventi, eighth and ninth resolutions,
such societies to make any contract with their.
which were disagreed to in committee of the whole
ininister. It was the duty of parishes to support a
were successively read as follows.
religious teacher. Suppose they make a contract
6th. Resolved, That it is proper and expe- for this purpose. One man goes away to one parish
dient further to alter and amend the Consti- one to another--the increased burden įnduces
fution so as to provide, that armies ought not
another 10 go away, until none are left; and wliat
becomes of the contract? He asked gentlemen to
to be maintained except in conformity to the reflect on the situation in which it would place all
Constitution of the United States.
parishes.---It has been heretofore necessary for'a
7th. Resolved, That it is proper and expe-person who wished, for any reason to be set off,
dient further to alter and amend the Consti- from one parisli to another, 10 apply for leave tá
tution so as to provide, that no subsidy, charge,
the legislature. But this amendment would make
this application unnecessary, and would destroy all
tax, impost; or duties ought to be established,
permanent distinctions of parishes.
fixed, laid, or levied, under any pretext what- Aír. ABBOT rose to a question of order; 'He
soever, without the consent of the people or
said that this proposition had not been discussed in
their Representatives.
this forn in conmittee of the whole.
The motion was decided to be out of order. '
dih. Resolved, That it is proper and expe- The question was then takea on the 3d resolutioni
dient further to alter. and amend the Consti-
and it passed.
tution so as to provide, that in time of war The 5th resolution was read a second time,
soldiers' quarters ought not to be made but
Mr. SHAW said, that when this resolution pass-
by the civil magistrate in a manner ordained
ed on the first reading it was not well understood,
and when it was discussed in committee of the
by law.
whole, it was in a thin house. He proceeded to reu
9th. Resolved, That it is proper and expe- capitulate the arguments against the resolutioni
dient further to alter and amend the Consti- The question was taken and the resolution pass
tution so as to provide, that no person can in
ed, 134 to 111,
Mr. JACKSON froin the comprittec for reduce
any case be subjected to law martial or to
ing the resolutions to the form in which they are ta
any penalties or pains by virtue of that law, be submitted to the people, made several reports
except those employed in the army or navy which were laid on the iable.
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
Mr. FAV offered the proposition he had made has not been misplaced from them I have
as an amendment, in the form of an independent received powerful aid and support. To those
committee of the whole, for the purpose of consid-gentlemen I tender my thanks for sharing so
ering it.
largely in the labor of presiding over your
Messrs. Sturgis, Starkweather and Thorndike, deliberations.
opposed the motion, and Messrs. Baldwin, Lincoln, To all I offer my respect and gratitude for
Dana and Story, spoke in favor of it.
that order and decorum which, in so numer-
The motion was agreed to.
Mr. BLAKE moved that the proposition submit-
ous an assembly, could have been maintain-
ted by Mr. Baldwin be referred to the same com-
ed only by individual courtesy, and respect
mittee of the whole.
for the character of the people whom you re-
Mr. BOND supported the motion, and it was a-
.present.
greed to--159 to 129.
Gentlemen I congratulate you upon the
It was ordered that the #wo propositions be made
the order of the day for Monday at 11 o'clock.
approach of the happy termination of your
It was ordered, that when the House adjourned, arduous session. The importance of your
it should adjourn to 9 o'clock on Monday morn- work, will not, by an intelligent People, be
ing.
Mr. ELLIS from the committee on the pay roll,
estimated by its visible product in actual chan-
reported the roll including Monday next, for travel
ges of the Constitution.
and attendance, amounting to 5124 dollars travel,
We were sent here to revise a Constitu-
and 50,800 dollars attendance.
tion dear to the People, and to amend it only
It was ordered that the roll lie on the table till where amendments should be found neces-
Monday.
Mr. WALTER from the committee on accounts,
sary.
reported that the volume, containing a report of the
The reluctant spirit with which the Peo-
debates and proceedings of the Convention could ple sent us here, has been duly estimated.-
be obtained for the members at the rate of $1 373 | You have given the Constitution a faithſul
cents each.
revision in all its parts: and have left its
Whereapon it was ordered that a sufficient num-
ber of copies be furnished.
great principles and its chief organization un-
Leave of absence was granted to Mr. Pope of disturbed. The work of preservation, if less
Sandwich, Mr. Houghton of Barre, Mr. Bullock of difficult, is not less important, than the work
Rovalston, Mr. Mattoon and Mr. Scott of Amherst. of creation.
The house then adjourned.
When posterity shall see that the frame of
government, which was formed by the great
men who composed the Convention of 1780,
was carefully and critically revised by those
MONDAY, JAN. 8. who constitute this assembly in 1820, it will
The house met at 9 o'clock and the journal of
be difficult to shake their confidence in a
Saturday was read.
system which shall come to them so recom-
On motion of Mr. VARNUM, the pay roll was mended.
recommitted with instructions to the committee to Gentlemen-If you have seen disadvan-
make an alteration.so as to include topiorrow.
Mr. VARNUM offered the following resolution, tages in so numerons a representation of
which was voted unanimously, and ordered to be
the People, for purposes like those about
entered on the journals, viz :
which you have been engaged, it should not
Ordered, That the thanks of this Conven- be forgotten that they will be counterbalan-
tion be presented to the Hon. ISAAC PAR- ced by the general confidence which the opin-
KER, for the exertions, attention, ability, and
ions of so numerous a body will be likely to
impartiality exhibited by him whilst he has | inspire.
presided over their deliberations.
Every town and district, with one or two,
The PRESIDENT made the following addressing Commonwealth, has had an opportunity
exceptions, within our populous and flourish-
in reply to the vote of thanks.
to be heard by its Delegate, upon the inter-,
Gentlemen of the Convention,
I have received, with great sensibility, the
esting questions which have been discussed.
These Delegates will carry home to their
testimony of your approbation of my con- Constituents the reasons and arguinents
duct as your President, on the motion of a
which led to the recommendation of any
gentleman whose long public services in change, as well as those which prevented the
high stations, and whose able exertions in
this Convention, entitle him to the respect of | adoption of such as may have been desired
by some.
of bis country
The People will thus be able
I was not deceived in anticipating that
to judge, upon a full knowledge of all the .
motives which have had their influence in
faithful endeavours to discharge the duties
this assemblymand will decide with an intel-
assigned me by your choice, would be re-
ceived with candour, although my inexperi- || advantages.
ligense worthy of their character and their
ence should occasion errors and mistakes.
That the harmony, good feelings and con-
My reliance upon the advice of gentlemen, ciliatory temper, which have prevailed here,
whose talents have been long practised in may extend through the Commonwealth, is
the forms of regulating deliberative assemblies, my ardent desire and prayer.
That Party
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
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ceed you.
Spirit; whose crest, I am proud to say, has
Mr. JACKSON said the committee were of o-
not been, on this occasion, raised within | pinion that the regular way would be for the whole
these walls, may be found to have departed report of the committee proposed to be appointed.
convention to come together again and receive the
from our Commonwealth, and to have left
ll
But this would occasion great expense and trouble
in its place, iutual good will, and a genuine for a matter of form, as the convention could do!;
love of country, is, I have no doubt, the sin- | nothing but count the voles. The next question
was who should attend to this duty. It was thought
cere wish of us all.
that the convention had no right to impose the bur-
I pray the Almighty Preserver of com-
den on the governor and council. The general
munities and men, that you may all return in court was then proposed; and perhaps no great in- .
safety to your families and friendsm-carrying
carrying convenience might arise from committing the bús-
with you, and finding there, health, peace
iness to them; but it was thought doubtful wheth-
er we had a right to impose this duty on them, and
and happiness ;--and that your childrens
it was uncertain in what manner they might treat
children may have occasion to bless your
the proposition. It seemed necessary, however, lo
memories, for the legacy of Law, Liberty 1 delegate to somebody; and it was thought that we
and Prosperity, which, having received from had more right, if we bad any, to delegate to a
your fathers, you have not only preserved in-
part of our own body. It was proposed that the
committee should be a large one ;--say two from
violate, but will have transmitted, secured,
each senatorial district. The select committee
and improved, to the generations which suic- were aware of the objection made by the gentle-
man from Boston, (Mr. Quincy) and it was suga
On motion of Mr. VARNUM, ordered that the gested that the chairman of the committee might
President's address be entered on the journals of the be empowered to cail the convention together in
convention.
case any difficulty should occur. It was consider-
· The resolutions reported by the committee for ed that there
confidence in should be no great risk in reposing
reducing the amendments into form were taken up.
a committee.
The first resolution was read and passed over for Mr. DAWES, of Boston, said it this objection
the present.
to a committee of its not being a responsible
The second resolution was read, which contains body, had not come from a gentleman for whom
a provision that the votes of the people on the a- he liad a high respect, he should have called it a
mendments shall be given on the second Monday of
fastidions ohjection.
April.
Mr. DANA argued that the act of the legisla-
Mr. BOYLSTON, of Princeton, moved to strike ture having given the Convention power as to the
out the second Monday of April and insert the first end, the sanie was to be implied in regard to the
Wednesday in May, because of the excitement means, and he thought the mode pointed out in the
from the April elections, and with a view of giving resolution was-the best. He remarked that they
the people more time.
were sent there to revise the Constitution. It had
Mr. LINCOLN, of Worcester, said it would be undergone a grand revision. There had been a
proper to have the people act as promptly as possi- grand developement of the principles on which it
ble, consistent with due deliberation, upon the al- was framed, and if not a single aniendment bad
terations proposed to them. The time recommend- been adopted by the Convention,the people would
ed by the committee would not interfere with the
have been satisfied. They would be glad that the
husiness of the people in the country, and the ob-
Constitution has been found so perfect. · He
jection made by the gentleinan from Princeton, re- thought it would be more satisfactory to the peo-
specting the excitement of the people, would apply ple to have a part of the same persons receive the
with equal force to the day proposed by him, be- returns who were appointed to make the revision.
cause the election of representatives takes place Mr. DUTTON, of Boston, said he apprehend-
in May.
ed that his colleague (Mr. Quincy) was mistaken
Mr JACKSON, Chairman of the committee,
in respect to l'esponsibility. If they had no right
observed that an carlier day than the one proposed to impose on the legislature the duty of receiving
by the gentleman frou Princeton was necessary, the returns, the legislature would be under no oh-
in order to give time for making the returns. l ligation to perform it. The legislature therefore
was also thought by a gentleman near bim from the would be an irresponsible body in relation to this
country, that the first Wednesday in May would subject. The Convention ought not to meet a-
be inconvenient on account of its succeeding im- gain and they must delegate the duty to somebody.
mediately after the general nuster day,
A committee of the Convention would be respon.
Mr. APTHORP, of Boston, remarked that tlie sible to the people, in the saine manner that the
second Monday in April would give an opportunity
Convention itself was.
of voting to one class of our citizens, who were
Mr. LINCOLN, of Worcester, said the amend-
usually absent in the nionth of May.
ment wasobjectionable because it proposed to con-
On a division of the motion the question was tak-
mit the duty to an extraneous hody. The people had
en for striking out and decided in the negative.!
not entrusted the legislature with any power re-
The third resolution was read, which contains a specting the amendments to the Constitution, and
provisión for appointing a committee of the con- the whole object of the Convention might be de-
vention to meet after the votes shall have been giv-
feated by adopting the present proposition of the
en in, to receive and examine the returns, and gentleman from Boston..
certify them to the Governor and Council, and al- Mr. QUINCY said the only question was wheth-
so to the General Court.
er this committee to be appointed was a responsi-
Mr. QUINCY, of Boston, moved to strike out ble or an irresponsible body. Giving that committee
this provision and insert instead, that it shall be the authority to call the Convention together, did not
duty of the Secretary of the Commonwealth to lay cure the difficulty ; they might or might not do it,
the returns 'before the Legislature at their session and were under no responsibilily in relation to it;
next after the voles shall be returned. Mr. R. or-
He was not convinced by the arguments in support
fered his amendment, becalisera committee of the
of the resolution, but he saw the general impres-
convention would be an irresponsible body:
sion was in its favor and he should not urge his
Mr. DANA, of Groton; wished the chairman of proposition any further.
the select coin uittec to state the rcasons for the The question was taken on the amendment; and
mode proposed in the l'esolution.
decided in the negative.
1
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
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The blank for the time of the meeting of the # Decided to be out of order, being repugnant to
comnittee was filled with the fourth Wednesday. or almost every thing that has been before deter-
May next.
mined.
A fourth resolution, respecting the vode of vot- A resolution offered several days since by Mr
ing upon the amendments was read.
VALENTINE, of Hopkinton, proposing to alter
Mr. D. DAVIS, of Boston, wished that some the constitution so as to have sheriffs elected by the
mode might be pointed out for making known to inhabitants of the several counties, was relerred to
the people the amendments which should be ap. the same committee of the whole to whom was re-
proved by a majority of them.
ferred the resolution offered by Mr. Fay on Sat-
The 4th resolution was recommitted 121 to 28 urday.
with instructions to report on the mode of giving A resolution providing for counsellors being
official notice to the people of the amendments qualified in the recess of the legislature by the gov-
wliich may be ra tified .
ernor alone or lieut, governor and any one of the
The other resolutions were kuid on the table in counsellors, previously qualified, was referred to
the mean time.
the same committee of the whole.
We have mentioned such parts only of these res- This resolution had been agreed to in the com-
olutions, as were the subject of discussion ; as we mittee of the whole on the Lieut. Governor and
intend to give them as afterwards amended and a- Council, but the subjects referred to that commit-
,dopted in connexion with the amendments reduced tee having been recommitted to another commit-
to form.
tee, all its proceedings became a nullity.
The resolution to take away the power of pro- A report of the committee for reducing amend-
ceeding in criminal cases by information, was tak- ments to form, containing the article relating to
on up.
the political year and to the time for holding elec-
Mr. HINCKLEY said that the select committee tions was read.
had had the subject under consideration, and had Mr. VARNUM said that in his opinion it would
come to the result presented by the resolve. They be proper to have this article go into operation in
were of opinion that by the common law as it was one year instead of two. He ihought it would be
established in the commonwealth, the attorney or more congenial to the wishes of the people.
solicitor general may file an information at pleas- He shoubted the right of
extending the term of of-
ure against an individual for any crime by which fice of persons chosen for one year only. He
he may be put at hazard of losing his life, liberty or moved to amend the article so that it should go in.
property, and that this was a dangerous power to operation upon the first Wednesday of January
and one which ought to be guarded against in the 1822, and the state oficers chosen next spring
constitution. They did not find that there had been should continue in office until that time.
any
abuse of the power, noraid they apprehend Mr. JACKSON said the committee, in making
any danger at present, but it was an arbitrary pow- up their opinion, were at first inclined to have this:
er capable of being abused, and which ought not to article go into operation, immediately; so as to
exist in a free government. A citizen of the fairest have the first election under it in November next.
reputation may be brought into court for trial at The reason for changing their minds was because
the pleasure of the prosecuting officer, when is this year the valuation would be taken. The Leg-
the complaint were brought before a grand jury || islature in May would appoint the committee and
it would be suppressed, and the mortification in January would settle the valuation. This would
and distress of a public trial prevented. It is pro- be the course whether the article should be ratified
posed that the jurisdiction of justices of the peace or rejected ; if it should provide for holding the
and the law martial shall remain unaffected by the first election in November 1822. It was thought
alteration, and subject to the discretion of the leg- proper that the same General Court which began
islature. It is also proposed that the legislature to make the valuation should complete, it. It was
shall have authority to grant the power to the pros- considered inexpedient to begin the new organi-
centing officers of the commonwealth, of proceed- zation of the government in an extraordinary year
-ing by information in specificd cases,
of valuation. It was suggested that the Legislature
Mr. WEBSTER said he vas doubtſu] whether might have anextra session in the Autumn to settle the
the resolution would not include cases of quo war- valuation, but this would be attended with great
ranto and some other cases, where filing an infor- expense and there would be hardly time for the
mation was a proper course to be pursued. He Committee to make up their returns. If the first
therefore moved to strike out the words " loss election was to be held next November, the Legis-
of life, liberty or property” and to irse:t in- lature would have a great deal 10 do previously in
stead, the words “ imprisonment or other igno- classing the towns, and it was possible that they
minious punishment.”
might not liave the census, officially, in season for
The amendment was aslopted, and the resolu- that purpose. It was necessary to do one or the
cion thus modified was as follows, viz :
other; either to extend to eighteen months the
Resolved, That it is expedientto amend the term of office of the persons elected next-spring,
the Constitution in the Declaration of Rights or to abridge it to six months. There seemed to
so as to provide that no person shall be subject- tend the term, though there might be with some
be no objection to the right of tlie people to ex-
ed to trial for any crime or offence, which on
in regard to the right of abridgiug tire term.-
conviction, may expose him or her to im- The General Court next chosen, would go on just
prisonment or ignominious punishment- as if no alteration had taken place, and there
hut by presentment or indictment of a Grand would be no need of a May session in 1822.
Mr. VARNUM said that every person accepting
Jury-except in cases which are or may be
any office next Spring would know that it might
oiderwise provided for by the statutes of this expire in six months. If the term was extended to
Commonwealth.
cighteen months, many people would consider it a
The resolution passed as amenden.
dangerous precedent and we should hazard the
Mr. MARTIN, pf Marblehcad, offered a resol- rejection of some of the most valuable amend-
ntion that it is inexpedient to make any other alter-
With respect to the valuatiou ; 'it was in-
ations in the constitution, except those which have practicable for the same General Court to com.
beta adopted respecting oaths and subscriptions, plete it. If no altcration should be made, the
ac respecting the mode of making future amend Connittce appointed by one General Court would
meats,
make their returns to the next General Court
nents.
.
I
!
.
959
No difficulty had ever been experienced, in regard Mr. STEBBINS, of Granville,offered a resolution
to want of responsibility, from the Committee so to.amend the constitution that the salaries of the
making their returns to the next General Court, Judges of the Supreme Judicial Court, after the
instead of making them to the body by which they present-Judges shall have vacated their offices,
were appointed.
shall be so fixed that the salary of the Chief Justice
Mr. LINCOLN, of Worcester, said he differed shall never be more than 2500 dollars, nor less than
froin the majority of the Committee, though he 2000, and that of the Justices, not more than 2000,
allowed there was great weight in the arguments nor less than 1500:
which had been arged by the. Chairman. His rens. A motion to commit this: resolution to the com-
ons however were not the same as those advanced mittee of the whole, was negatived.
by the gentleman from Dracut. It was admitted Mr. SPURR, of 'Charlton, offered a resolution
that we have a defective form of government ;. We providing that the lands belonging to the Com-
should therefore give the people an opportunity monwealth, situated in the State of Maine, he ap-
of having a good one, as soon ase possible. The propriated to the establishment of a fund, the in-
objections were all founded on matter of conven- terest of which shall be distributed among the sev-
ience. In respect to the valuation, the same diffi- eral towns and districts, according to their popula.
-culty would always exist, unless there should be two tion for the support of the cominon schools.
sessions. He did not think it would be necessary to Also, another resolution providing that, instead
have two sessions for that purpose, or he would of a Registry of Deeds for each county, all deeds
have opposed the proposition for having all the and conveyances of real estates, shall be recorded,
towns represented every tenth year, on account of in each town by the Town Clerk, who sha]] never
the inonstrous expense it would occasion to the be allowed niore than 25 cents for recording each
Commonwealth." There would be no difficulty in deed.
the report of the Committee on valuation being On a motion to commit the first resolution to a
- made to a new Legislature, without baving the committee of the whole,,
committee to explain. An invoice was a mere mat- Mr. BOYLSTON, of Princeton, stated that it
ter of fact,and there were always gentlemen in the would be useless to take up the time of the conven-
Legislature acquainted with this subject. It would tion upon this subject, as the lands of the Com-
be necessary to class the towns before a Legisla- monwealth were at present not in a disposable
ture could be chosen nader the amended Constitu- state-being already pledged to the State of Maine
tion, but this was the labor of a day and could be for 30,000 dollais, in consideration of their assum-
done at the next May session.
ing the debts and clainis due to certain Indian
Mr. PRESCOTT hoped the amendment would tribes and others on the separation of the State:-
not prevail. He said a valuation committce would They were to have two years, to survey and locate
be appointed by the legislature next May. The the lands, and afterwards the legislature of Massa-
house of representatives would probably be a large chusetts was to be allowed one year more to make
one. If this amendment was adopted the commit- their clection whether to convey the lands for that
tee would report either to the same general court sum, or to pay the 30,000 dollars in money, But
at an extra session, or to a legislature under the another very important consideration arises. The
new orgavization of the government. The next American and British Commissioners under the
general court would be in many respects different- treaty of Ghent were running the line on that
ly constituted from the one to be chosen under the quarter, and it appeared by reports that the Amer-
amended constitution. They would prefer com- icau Commissioners had expressed some degree of
pleting the valuation, and would probably have an concession to the British Cominissioners, whereby
extra session in October for this purpose, and then the whole mighi fall within the British lines.-
a new legislature would be chosen in November to Whether that shall be the ultimate decision, or
meet in January. He should be willing to live one not, would it be adviseable to come to any vote up-
year longer under this defective cônstitution, which on property in a state of so much uncertainty
had served us for forty years, rather than have the A motion to commit these resolutions to a com-
expense of an extra sessiou of the legislature. He mittee of the whole was negatived, by a large ma-
observed in addition, that it would lake a consider-- | jority.
able time in the May session to arrange the classi- It was moved that the convention go into a com-
fication of towns.
mittee of the whole on the resolutions which were.
Mr. SIBLEY, of Sutton, spoke in favor of the a- conmitted on Saturday, and this morning.
mendment as being favorable to the small towns. Mr. ABBOT, of Westford, opposed the motion.
He also thought it was important to have this arti- He said it would detain the convention a long time
ele go into operation as soon as possible, because to discuss the subjects referred to the committee,
the defect in the organization of the senate was and he thought unprofitably. One of the proposi-
the principal reason for calling the convention. tions relating to the 3d article had been in substance
Mr. Varnum's amendment was adopted--169 to already agitated, and the object of the other was
116.
already attained by the law of 1811. What was
Mr. VARNUM then moved to fill up a blank for now proposed was not necessary for the organiza-
the dav of the first election with the second Mon- tion of the government, and he hoped the conven-
day of November next.
tion would refuse to go into committee upon it.
Mr. JACKSON pointed out an inconsistency, in The motion was carried, 156 to 127, and Mr.
saying the article should not go into operation be- Webster took the chair.
fore the first Wednesday of January and yet re- The resolution offered by Mr. FAY for the furtli-
quiring by it that the first election should be on the er amnendment of the third article of ihe Declara-
preceding November.
tion of Rights was taken up.
On motion of Mr. LOCKE, of Billerica, the vote
Mr. HOAR was sorry that any gentleman had
adopting the former amendment was reconsidered,
and after some debate, on motion of Mr. AUSTIN,
thought it necessary to bring this proposition be-
fore the convention at this lale period. It had
of Boston, the article was recommitted in order
been twice substantially before the house, and had
that the coinmittee should make it conform to the
been negatired when there were niore than a
sense of the house, that the first election should
hundred more members present than were now
take place on the second Monday of November here. But as it had been thought fit to bring up
next.
the question it was judessary to consider what
On motion of Mr. WEBSTER, the committee
had leave to sit, while the house was in session, if
would be its operation. It was a short and plain
it should be necessary.
proposition, and at first view seemed very fair, but
260
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
to
a
or
to
it would be found on examination that its effect when they considered the thin'étate of the house,
would be to annul every parish in the Common- compared with what it was when the subject was
wealth. It puts an end to all acts of the legislature, before under dsicussion, they would not adopt a
dividing the Commonwealth into convenient dis- measure, which must put' an end to the ancient
tricts for the support of public worship. For what mode of supporting ministérs, for the very triffing
reasons was this to be done? It was desirable to object that is proposed to be gained by it.
some persons to have the power of leaving their Mr. STORY said be had listened with great
parish minister and going to another.' This no care and attention to the gentleman who had just
doubt was sometimes a very convenient and pleas- | spoken, and whom he always hcard with pleasure
ant thing, but there were two sides to the question. and instruction. If he had failed to convince him,
A parish forms a contract with a minister-an in- by his ingenious argument it was because he had
dividual votes in making the contract, but the next assumed some things which he, Mr. S, thought
year changes his mind, and wishes to be liberated. were not to be admitted. The assumption is too
He is only to say that he has changed his mind and broad that every, member of the parish is bound
he is liberated. Would this be borbe in any other to contribute to the support of the minister, and
case? Suppose there was a banking institution in that whenever you allow an exception it impairs
which the individual proprietors were responsible the obligation of the contract entered into, and
for its engagements, and an individual should with- you lay tbe foundation for destroying the parish.-
draw from it and avoid his responsibility. It would If this was true, the mischief was done already,
be considered a breach of good faith. This
pro- the constitution now has the principle. The gen-
vision authorizes every member of a parish, which tleman thought the change would be of pernicious.
has a coótract with a minister, to go where he tendency;--if he, Mr. S. thought so, he would be
pleases, and no tax can afterwards he assessed up- opposed to it, but he thought it would be salutary.
on him for fulfilling the contract-this gives a new This was only opinion against opinion. The reas-
inducement to another to go—and the corporation on why this alteration ought to be made was on
may be left. without corporators. The minister the ground of the indulgence already granted.-
may sue and get execution against the corporation, Had any serious evil grown out of the present in-
but can get no fruit of his execution-and there dulgence? If there had not, woald the evil be in-
is no way in which his contract can be enforc- creased by giving this principle an equal operation ?
ed: If all do not leave the parish--suppose No gentlenian would say that the difference of
only half leave, those who remain will be sentiment was not as great between an unitarian and
compelled
pay
double táx
a trinitarian, as between a trinitarian congrega-
violate their contract. It was said that this tionalist and a baptist. Why should not this differ-
might be the effect of the present law. This did ence be entitled to the same indulgence ?, The
not diminish the foree of the objection. The law principle of the constitution is that the rights of
may be modified so as to prevent these consequen- conscience shall be indulged, as far as is consistent
ces, but if the principle is incorporated into the with the the right of government to require the
constitution, it cannot be. It was said that these support of public worship. If the argument that
evil consequences had not resulted from the law. the right of withdrawing from one parish to another
One reason why the consequences of the law had endangers the existence of parishes, is well found-
not been felt was, that it was not generally under- ed, it prostrates the indulgence already granted.com
stood. It was generally supposed that to entitle But we have lived under the constitution forty
one to leave a parish and withdraw his taxes, he years in which the provision has existed, and it has
must become a member of a society of' a different not proved injurious. The gentleman' said that
denomination But the law had recently received parishes were to be broken up by this anerdment.
a different construction, which was no doubt'l He, Mr. S. lield that they were to be preserved by.
eorrect. It was true that under the law a it. By the present constitution, if a person resid-
person who becomes of a different denomin- | ing in a parish belongs to a society of another de-
ation, has a right to withdraw, but this was vomination, and worships with them, he has a right
understood, and the contracts have been made to withdraw his taxes, but has no right to with-
subject to this coudition. This provision nuight draw them unless he belongs to a society of anoth-
be liable to abuses and frauds, but it did not follow er denomination. The consequence is, that if a
that there might not be benefit in the restriction.- person is disaffected, you drive hiin to proselyting
There were instances in which pretended changes that he way form a little society which shall forev-
of opinion to avoid taxation had not availed. He er protect him and his associates from being taxed
stated an instance of a man who left a congrega- in the parish. But this amendment permits him to
tional parish, joined a baptist society and was im- go to another society of the same denomination---
mersed--and who on being asked if he had waslied to the neighboring parish—and another man per-
away his sins, replied that he had washed away his haps comes back from the other society. What is
taxes, which was his principal concern. This dec- lost by one is gained by another, and the balance is
Jaration being proved, he was still holden to the nearly equal. It will ivduce the minister to concil-
payment of his taxes in the congregational parish iate the feelings of his parishioners, and to have a
in which he resided. The resolution iſ adopted, I stricter regard to the feelings of the minority of
whould change the condition of all ministerial con- the parish, where there is a division of opinion,
tracts. Whether it would annul contracts made by and to pay an equal regard to the whole of his
bond, he did not know, but there might he doubts. flock. It will prevent persons playing the hypo-
It disables a parish fron forming a contract which crite,' by going over for a short time to a 'sectarian
shall be binding upon both parties. Suppose a society to avoid the obligation of paying taxes, and
minister is settled in the usual solemn form to-day, H returning to another church of his original opin-
this amendment points out the mode in which any ions. He put it on the ground of right. Whiy
mem'ler of the parish may avoid the obligation en- should persons of a different denomination hava
tered into. It may be all fair in relation to future the indulgence, while it was refused to persons of
contracts, but it is not in relation to those now ex- the same denomination, though the difference of
isting He asked if gentlenien were prepared to opinion may be greater, and the reason for the in-
adopt such a principle in the constitution. It was dulgence stronger? He granted it would impair
of infinite inportance, and threatened the niøst the security of present contracts, but it would not
pernicious consequences. There was no adequate ) prejudice future contracts. It would always be in
reson for the change in the triding inconvenience the power of tlie minister to require the guaranty of
that had been felt. He hoped that gentlemen, liqdividuals
, and if lie is a good martliçre widi be
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
261
9
1
1
*0 difficulty. He did not say there would be no il ser. All our parish lines are
All our parish lines are blotted out. The
evils, but he did not believe they would be greut. clergymen may have to attend his parishioners in
When he recollected that for two centuries, piety a dozen towns. They will be like the catile on a
and `eligion had distinguished the people of this thousand hills, Suppose a man should say lie did
state, that the ministers of the gospel had gen- not like the goverudr, or the judges, and it was a-
erally been liberally and cheerfully supported gainst his conscience to contribute to pay their
that the people every where felt a strong attach-
what is to be donc? A man's conscience
ment to their clergyman and an interest in luis wel- is as quick in politicks, as it is in regard to paying
fare, he could not believe that any parish would his minister. In either case it is a mere matter of
desert their minister when old and grey headed, money and there is no conscience aboutit. He could
and suffer him to go down in sorrow to the grave. only hope the resolution would not be adopted.
It was contrary to our nature, and he had never Mr. NEIVHALL,01 Lynnfield, hoped the resolu-
known an instance of such unnatural treatment.-- tion would, be adopted. He thought it the only
This amendment would have a tendency to strength- mcasure that could preserve the congregational
en the tie between minister and people, and so far parishes from a gradual decrease ind in the
its effect would be salutary.
small towus from annihilation. Besides the com.
Mr. FOSTER, of Littleton, said that if he he plaints against clergymen arising from fanaticism,
lieved the public good required a provision of this or from personal prejudices and ill will, there are
assent to its in almost all congregatiаoal societies persons of
adoption If the case was the same between respectable character whose sentiments on the
christians of the same denomination as between great and leading principles of christianity are not
different sects, he should vote in favor of the l'es- in unison with those of thie seuled minister, and
olution. He agreed that conscience should be who for that reason are obliged to neglect attend-
respected, but lie thought sufficient provision for ing bo his ministrations, and are driven to socie-
it had already been made. He thought that when titis of other denominations. It is well known that
we said a man night do as he had a mind to, nearly all the varieties in the fundamental dac-
might worship when and where and in what pan- trines of christianity, are to be found'in persons
ner he pleased, might enjoy his opinions freely, of the congregational denomination. There are
might embrace the system of Swedenborg and all therefore all the reasons for dissenting from one
his nonseose, if he chose, or run after any vision- congregational society and 'uniting with another,
ary zealot, no person had a right to complain.or|| that there can be for going to a society of another!
the rights of conscience being under restraint. denomination. As therefore he wished to see all
The gentleman talks about the differences be- f religious denominations stand upoá a level in the
tween unitarians and trinitarians-vvhat have these enjoyment of religious rights-as he was desirous
speculative disputes of ingenious men to do with that there should be no legal hindrance to persons
conscience; he hoped it would not be thought renoving their connexions from one religious şq-
indecorous in him, on account of his being a minis- ciety to another of the same order--and as he bed
ter of a congregational church, to oppose this res- lieved that such a regulation would tend to pro-
olution. He was not acting as a clergyman. He mote harmony and it endship among christians of
stood on equal ground with other gentlemen and various sects, he hoped the proposed amendment
wished to be considered only as the humble dele- would be adopted.
gate of the town he represented. If this provis- Mr. FREEMAN, of Sandwick, said it was his
ion was to be prospective, he said it would not be misfortune to differ from the learned gentlemau
quite so objectionable. Future contracts between from Saleni in relation to this amendment.. He
a minister and his people night be framed with agreed with the gentleman from Concord, that to
reference to it. Ever since the country. was set- incorporate it into the constilution would be about
tled, the contract with a minister had been for equal to an abolition of the 3d article. He would
life; and he wished gentlemen to consider that it
,
was not a trifling thing to a clergyman to he statc one or two facts, which lie proceeded to'ie-
turned out of his living. A great proportion of late by way of showing the application and effect
the congregational clergy, instead of receiving a of the proposed aniendiment or certain parishes.-
large sum when they were settled, have made a Unitarians and Calvinists he considered differen
contract to have a small sum annually during their sects. He had no interest in supporting this sidet
life; and if this is taken from them, they will be of the question, if he had acted from a regard to
left without any resource. And what reason is to his personal interest ke should have spoken on the
to assigned by a parishioner for deserting bis oilier side.
clergyman ? No reason. The Constitution is my
I am tired of hearing this old worn his satisfaction with the law of 1811; but that
Mr. LOW,, of Beverk:10
minister. The gentleman from Salem said he had might be repealed. Before that lai chere was an
wever seen a clergyman deserted in his old age.- inequality of privileges Iu Newburyport, Dor-
that it was not in our nature to act with such in- chester, and probably twenty other towns, all per-
humanity. Unfortunately, the,gentleman's experi- sons go to what society they please and pay whiere
ence did not reach to every case. He (Mr. F.) they go. He would pot say how much law there
irad seen a clergyman deserted in his old age and should be to regulate religion, but what there was
seen his grey hair's go down with sorrow to the ougbt to be equal in its operation.
grave. When a proposition was made for giving Mr. PHELPS, of Belchertown, hoped the reso
the legislature auihority to reduce the salary of a lution would not pass. It was brouglit in at the
judge, the gentleman's sensibility was all alive. It end of the session, after many of the nieubers were
wust not be. You are breaking your contract. gonc home, and after the subject had been fulls
The faith of the community is pledged, so long as discussed in a full house. He thought it ought not.
he behaves himself well. the agreed with the gen- to be adopted in the present state of the house.
tleman perfectly, only he did not go far enough.-
Mr. LINCOLN said that originally every parish
Why not extend his protection to a mioister of the was of one sect and entertained a uniformity of
Gospel ? No, let him spend his old age in porer- sentiment. But now there was a great difference
ly and distress, After he has spent his best days of sentiment in almost every low. In some towns
in the faithful performance of his duties, let his so- there are persons who are obliged to play the lypo-
ciety turn him off, like an old horse worn out with crite and associate with a society they do not agrue
service. By this resolution, all iliat a maa bas to with, or contribute to the support of doctrinçs they
say is, that he has a preference io another minis- do not belicyo. What was the condition of almost
ここ
​/
1
reason.
Out
1
34
(
262
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
every parish in the western part of the Common- ME. HOAR said he certainly should not vote
wealth? Every person was born with the obliga. for the resolution if amended, but he thought it
tion of supporting religious instruction of a certain his duty to endeavor to to make it as little înjurious
kind, for the dissemination of doctrines which
as possible.
many did not believe. He had the happiness to The amendment was negatived 127 to 173.
belong to an: Unitarian society, where he could Mr. BALDWIN expressed his entire concur-
worship in a manner consistent with his views of
rence in the resolution. He said there were dif-
the doctrines of Christianity. But what would be ferences of opinion as great between persons of the
the condition of a man belonging to such a society congregational denomination, as between Congre-
who by what he conceives to be the operation of gationalists and Baptists. It was said that a min-
irresistible grace, is brought to believe in the tripi. ister might be left by his people. This was true.com
ty, and all the doctrines connected with it, and but there ought to be no obligation that was not
that his former opinions were erroneous ? Shall he mutual. The minister might change his opinion,
be bound to adhere to his society. or to contribute
and the people would be deprived of the benefit of
to the support of a teacher who according to his their contract. Were the people in such case
new views preaches what is without a particle of bound to support him? A person cannot worship
religion in it, and inculcates doctrines abhorrent to
with any profit with a teacher from whom he dif.
his conscience? It is only an act of justice to per- fers in the essential points of faitli.
mit bim to withdraw. As to its violating the obli- The question on the resolution was then taken,
gation of contracts between the parish and the
and it was agreed to--214 to 116.
minister, it is done by the provision of the constitu-
The committee then rose and reported its agree.
tion already, and there is no mode of preventing it. ment to the resolution.
If all are required to pay for the support of public It was ordered that when the House adjourn, it
worship in some society; it is all that can be done be to half past 3 o clock this afternoon.
towards gaining the purposes of government. The
Leave of absence were granted to Messrs. Deir-
differences between persons of the same denomi- ey and Kellogg, of Sheffield; Gates, of Rutland;
nation are many of them more essential than those
and Whittaker, of Monson.
which distinguish the different denominations.
Adjourned.
The latter are principally matter of form—the
other may be a difference in fandamental doctrines.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
.
The learned gentleman proceeded to state the
practice that was begun as early as 1807 by the
Tủe House met at half past 3 o'clock,
legislature, of incorporating poll parishes, and the
Leave of absence was given to Messrs Eames,
operation and effect of the practice which he con-
of Washington; Knight, of Norwich; and Doane,
tended had been favorable, in promoting attend-
of Phillipston; also, to Mr. Jones, of Barre, aſter
tomorrow.
ance on public worship and the growth of piety
and religion.
On notion of Mr. Walter, of Boston, the house
Mr. FAY, of Cambridge, şaid if the proposition | ed business of the forenoon–119 to 94-Mr. Web-
went into committee of the whole on the unfinish-
had been substantially discussed and acted on, he
ster in the chair.
should not have brought it forward at this time.--
But it was brought forward in connection with o-
The committee proceeded to the consideration
ther principles, and had not been fairly tried. He
of the resolution offered by Mr. Baldwin, of Bos-
did not believe it would be productive of the evils
ton, for providing that any person becoming a
which the gentlemen from Concord and Littleton
member of any religious society, and filing with
who had spoken on the subject apprehended. The
the clerk of the town where he dwells, a certifi-
evils which they had described were the evils of
cate of a committee of such society, of his mem-
the constitution, and some of them would be done bership, shall be exempted from taxation to any
away by this measure. The gentleman from Lit-
other society, while such membership.continueś.
tletop surrendered the argument when he contend-
Mr. BALDWIN said that some amesdments to
.ed that all which was provided by this amendment the third article of the Declaration of Rights, had
was attained by the law of 1811, which law be ad- been agreed upon by the Convention, but the most
mitted to be right. He believed that the injurious obnoxious part, perhaps, remained vorepealed.-
effects of the alteration would be confined to a few The most potent objection which had been urged
cases, and that in general the only effect would be against incorporating this resolution into the Con-
to introduce a little interchange between parishes, Istitution,
was, that the provision was liable to a-
which would be of favorable tendency.
buses. Particular instances had been mentioned,
Mr. FOSTER did not believe that gentlemen which, upon examination of the facts, would be
who differ in speculative opinions often differ so found to have been misrepresented. He was sor-
much that they cannot worshup together profita-
ry that such representations should be given, be- /
bly. But this amendment permits persons without cause they prejudice the minds of gentlemen, un-
cause--without pleasing to offer any reason, to go justly, against the merits of the resolution The
to another society,and io désert that in which they principle of the resolution was contained in the 4th
are bound to perform certain engagements. He
resolution of the Select Committee on the Declar-
did not object to persons separating, who could not ation of Rights. The whole thing claimed was,
profitably worship together. This amendment that the money of the members of al society of any
would virtually dissolve erery contract existing denomination, should not be paid, so as to oblige
between a parish and its minister. He knew there them to draw it out of other hands. It was as
was a remedy in the courts of the United States, contrary to the tenets of the Baptists, to levy come
but no one would wish to resort to it.
pulsory taxes, as it was to those of the Friends to
Mr. ABBOT, of Westford, moved to amend the do military duty. The gentleman from Littleton
resolution, by aunexing a proviso that the real es- had said, that seventy societies applied to the Le-
tate of pon-residents shall be liable to be táxed for gislature some years since, to be incorporated, ou-
the support of public worship in the town or par-
ly one of which was a Congregational society.--
ish in which it is situated.
I'he gentlemau mistook the object of these appli-
Mr. HOAR supported the amendment. He ex 'cations. It was to get rid of paying taxes to other
plained the operation of the resolutiou il adopted societies ; not to obtain autbority to tax their own
in releasing from taxation for this objeci, all clie members. lle pitied that Cergyman who depend-
lands of non-resident proprietors.
ed ou the compulsory taxaiion of liis society to
Mr. STURY asked if the gentleman should vote ensure him a subsistence. The exempliou in this
for the resolution if the anevdneod'-ere adopted. Il resolution läsled ouly so long as the peison sontis
?
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MASSAGHUSETTS CONVENTION.
263
cr.
He hoped
ved a member of the religious society to which he win)however has not thought proper to move that
united himself.
proposition, but prefers moving the present reso-
Mr.WILDE, of Newburyport, said that although lution with all its defects. After a majority of 110
the time of the Convention was short, he could not have determined to retain the 3d article, they are
reconcile it to his conscience not to resist a propo- called upan by the minority to yield the principles
sition so totally opposed to his feelings and princi- of it for the sake of conciliation. He did not know
ples, as well as repugnant to what had already how the minority could call on them to yield these
been adopted by the House. If the alternative principles any more than they could call on them
were put to him to adopt this résolution or ex- to abjure their religion. He had not praised the
punge the 3d article, he should prefer expunging law of 1811; he only said it was made with a good
the 3d article, and for this reason, that the whole intent. It was made prospectively, The abuses
subject would then be in the power of the legislature. were not foreseen. If the abuses of which it is
Although this would be a dangerous power to be susceptible should take place, the Legislature
left to the Legislature, yet he should trust to the would correct them'; but if this law is inserted in
feelings and dispositions of the people of this com- the constitution, it will be out of their power.
monwealth to rectify any mistakes or abuses.- They would have to sit under a church founded for
Though many evils might arise, though the rights the purpose of exempting from taxation.
It was
of conscience might be invaded by the Legislature, not the intention of the gentlemen who have
he would run the risk rather than accept this pro- ! brought forward any of these propositions, to ex-
position. What was the amount of this resolution ? | empt profligates from contributing to the support
that any man may join any society, and on produ- ll of religion and morality; they had disclaimed it;
cing his certificate of having joined it, may be ex- but such would be the effect of the present resolu-
enipted from taxation for the support of public tion. This proposition did not slow conciliation ;
worship in every other society. Any man may brought forward too at this late period of the sese-
join any society, or any number of men may form sion. In every instance, those in favor of the 3d
a society, by which any man may be exempted article had made concession. He had yielded in
from all taxation for the support of public worship every vote. He wished every religious person to
in the town where he resides. The consequence enjoy freedom in religious worship, and they had
will be that all who want to get rid of paying taxes as much without this amendment to the constitu-
will join a society. It is not necessary to support tion as they would have with it; but he did not
public worship-there is no need of a public teach- want to help those who wished not to contribute
er the society may be in this town or in any oth- at all to the support of religion. He had already
A religious exemption society will be formed shown that he was not bigoted; he had' no dispor.
-exempt not only from taxation, but from all re- sition to crowd any gentleman,
but would yield as
ligious duties. A society may consist of one hun- far as any man on a question of expediency; but
dred thousand persons from all parts of the on a question of principle, he would not yield,
Conmonwealth, and all the members residing whatever night be the consequences.
in their respective towns. If this was not to- the resolution would be negatived without much
tally expunging the 3d article, it was worse ; consideration.
because by putting this resolution into the consti- Mr. YARNUM said the gentleman from New,
tution, the Legislature would be deprived of the buryport had expatiated largely on the impropri-
power to oorrect such abuses. He would make a
ely and he might say, wickedness of introducing
single remark upon the manner in which this reso- such a proposition, at this time. He asked, was
lution was introduced. The substance of it was this correct? Does any body figure to himself
contained in the proposition introduced by the that any society of 100,000 persons such as the
gentleman from Beverly, (Mr. Williams.) The gentleman has imagined, will ever be realized ?
gentleman from Boston, (Mr. Parker) to-correct Mr. V. read the 3d resolution of the Committee on
the evils which that proposition might occasion, the Declaration of Rights, which had been adopt-
mored an amendment by which all persons should ed. In this 3d resolution the societies incorpo-
be called upon to contribute to the support of pub- l rated and unincorporated, are required to do
lic worship. The gentleman from Beverly acced- what? to make suitable provision for the institut-
ed to this. He said he had no design to break up on of public worship of God, &c. Here tliey had
parishes, but wished that every society might be 110t only bound these societies to make suitable
at liberty to raise monies in their own way, without || provision for the support of public worship but
being subjected to the inconvenient mode of with- had also bound the Legislaure' to see that such
drawing from other hands the taxes paid by its own provision is made. How then could such a socie-
members. The proposition of that gentleman thus ty as the gentleman has imagined, exist ?
modified, Mr W. conceived, at the time, would Mr. WILDE' explained. His argument was
a valuable amendment to the 3d article, and he that 100,000 or any number, miglit join one so-
still thought so. It would have remedied a defect || ciety and have public worship kept up in any one
in that article It would have put a restraining | place in the State, and the members not attend it:
clause upon the Legislature in regard to exempting Mr. VARNUM said it was not, wonderful that
from contribution to the support of public worship. he should not understand, he was so far behind
The court were constrained to say, as there the gentleman in learning. He said there would
was no clause for restricting the Legislature, that be no society that would not be fully under the
the law of 1811 was Constitutional. He believed l operation of law and bound to support public wor,
that proposition as amended would have been a
ship. So ought every one to be. If we looked
salutary check upon the Legislature. That it a little farther, we should find that the difficulty-was
would have produced harmony; and that time and not in the country towns but in the large seaports,
experience would have removed all our fears and where there are many persons who are never cal-
apprehensions of its operation. But it was in vain led on lo contribute to the support of public wor-
to speak of that now, or to attempt to restore it.-- sliip; men of large property, who do not pay a
He knew it was opposed by gentlemen who liad cent. Gentlemen had told them, and gentlemen
nothing in view but the support of the institution in high stations, who, from the nature of their offi-
of public worship and religious instruction, but he ces, were capable of judging from the experience
thought if they would review the subjcct fairly, that of its results, ihạt the law of 1811 had not operated
iostead of a majority of six or seven against the in the manner they had anticipated. It was well
proposition, two thirds of the house would be in fa- koown thatit had produced barmony and allayed the
vor of it. The gentlengan from Boston (Mr. Bald- great public exciiement which prevailed at the
be a
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
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V
}
time when it was passed. He thought that could not men by law to maintain the public worship of God
be stigmatized as a bad proposition, the intention in all 'cases where it is not done voluntarily.
of which was to introduce into the Constitution a Upon this subject there can be no comprom-
law which has operated so favorably. One denom- ise, no conciliation. The Reverend gentleman
ination had been provided for', this morniog, by the had urged, that because a man was obliged to pay
adoption of the resolution introduced by the his taxes where he lived, though he might carry
Gentleman from Cambridge (Mr. Fay.) them, where he attended public worship, it made
The dissenters only contended to be put on one denomination of christians subordinate to an-
the sanie rooting. Why should one denom- other. If this was ever true, the resolution pas-
ination be obliged to let thic monies intended for
ed this morning placed Congregationalists on the
the support of their own mode of worship, pass same footing ; but in truth it never came within
through the hands of another denomination? 'He the meaning of the clause referred to in the Cou-
hoped the resolution would be adopted.
stitution. The amendinent which has passed, re-
MR. SIBLEY of Sutton hoped the resolution cognises the existence of unincorporated societies.
would prevail. As experience was the best mas. He bad voted for this, but he could go no farther.
ter, he would mention that it was twenty-five years They now stood on the same ground with incorpo-
since they had had any parish tax for the support rated societies, were subject to the same duties,
of public worship. While taxes were assessed, and equally under the control of the Legislature.
the society continually dininished till it had al- But these resolutions now propose to engraft into
most come to nothing but they adopted the meth- the Constitution, the second section of the law of
od of taxing pew's, and now the society flourished. 1811. He was wholly opposed to this, not because
No person was compelled to attend public worship he was opposed to the law, but because he was op-
oi contribute to its support, hut every person who posed to making it a part of the constitution. The
had any claims to respectability contributed vol- wholc difference, in bis opinion, lay betweeu hava
untarily. He did not like to heay so much said a- ing these provisions in a law, and having them in a
bout the superior goodness of the seaports com- constitution. So long as they remained a law, they
pared with the country towns. He was a congre- wcie swoject to revision and modification. Abus-
gationalist, but he was in favor of the present res- es might hereafter exist, which would require to
Glution.
be corrected. The law had been in operation on-
Mr. DUTTON said he should make no apology ily ten years ; a much longer time was necessary
for the few moments, he intended to occupy, upon to ascertain its bearing and influence, He did
these resolutions. He was opposed on Saturday, not know that any great abuses now existed, but,
to sending them to the committee, and he did not he was not wise enough to foresce that none would
know upon what principle of equity or even court. exist fiſty years hence, nor foolish enougli to say
asy, the indulgence had been granied ; for he had that the legislature should not have the power to
supposed that the minority were as much bound by
correct them when they did exist.
It was not
rules as the majority. The inajority of the Con- wise to attempt to bind by an unchanging law, the
vention, however, aſter one refusal, Irad yielded, ever changing interests and opinions of men ;-
and the resolutions were now to be disposed of;
bandonment of his
fix forever in one place, that which is in its nature
mutable and progressive. Laws can always le
duty, if he discovered less perseverance in main- acconinodated to the existing state of things. As
taining the principles of the inajority, with whom
property accumulates, as the labours and occupa-
he had acted, than the gëntleman did who assailed
tions of men are more divided and subdivided; as
them. This was the fourth attempi, that had been new rights and interests spring up, as opinions and
inade to do away the force and effect of the great sentiments change, the law keeps pace with them
principle in the bill of rights. This principle, a all. It is, and always ought to be the index which
large majority had determined to maintain ; and
marks the progress and the changes of society
they were now called upon, again to surrender it On the other hand, the constitution is and always
in the spirit of conciliation. Many moving, ap-
ought to be a body of general rules.
peals had been made to the candour and liberalily outlines only are drawn, the filling up ougbt to be
of the majority ; --but he would ask gentlemen to left to the sound discretion of the Legislature.-
consider what was the true meaning of this lan-
General powers are granted, and general duties
guage. In his apprehension it was nothing short
are enjoiried; but the incidental powers and means
of this-give us'all we ask and we shall be satisfied are to be developed and applied by the Legisla- ;
-yield the principle which you have sustained in
ture, according to the exigencies ofihe times. It
every form, and which you deein vital to the best
often happens that a law does not accomplish the
welfare of the state,and we shall be content; sur-
good or prevent the mischief it intended; and the
render, at this last trial all that you have resolved statute books are full of acts in alteration or a-
to hold, and we shall give up the contest. Let it mendınents of acts. The inference from this is,
be remembered that the majority have acted on the that the foresight and the judgment of men are
defensive; that they have been compelled to defend fallible; and that all such details should be
their principles, assailed as they have been, in within the control of the , Legislature. He.
every form that ingenuity could suggest, and with had opposed the introduction of all details and
a perseverance which he should think praise-wor-
minute provisions, into the constitution, as well
thy, if he thonght the object so. But upon this lupon other subjects as this; and as the present
subject it was in vain to attempt to disguise or resolutions 'vere' merely the details of an existing
conceal the trath. There was an irreconcileable law, he was for the reasons he had given, opposed
difference of opipion; and whenever the rev.
gen-
to them. In addition, to the arguments urged a-
tleman and his friends were satisfied, he was sure gainst the resolutions by the gentleman froni New-
he should not be. The conciliation so much re on- Huryport, which he thought conclusive, he would
mended, demanded every thing and gave nothing; remark, that if the Rev. gentleman's object was to
and before he could become a party to it, he must secure the right of maintaining public worship hy
know upon what terms it was to be had. The
volliptary contribution, he had it now by the con-
gentleman who introduced, these resolutions has listitution. It was only those who refused to sup-
frankly avowed his opinion that religion ought not port it at all, in any way, that the law would con-
to be supported except hy voluntary contribution ; pel to do their duty; and why should not the law
the majority have deterinined, after a long and re- cumpel the performance of this highest duty, as
peated discussion, that it is noi only the unquestion- well as of any other. It is admitted to be a duty,
ed right of the state, but its solemn duty to compe! in the diseharge of which the state is interested,
!
The grcat
A
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MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
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11
and if the state does its duty, this will always be tion. For what was the third resolution of the
exacted. If then, the resolutions bad no other ob- committee on the declaration of rights which had
ject than to provide for the support of public wor- been adopted by ile convention ? That resolution
ship by voluntary contribution, they were needless; makes it imperative on the legislature to compel
if they had other objeets, he was opposed to them, congregational societies to support public worship.
because he did not know precisely what those ob- While by this the gentlemen com pel congregation-
jects were, nor what would be the effect of such alists to support public worship, why should they
provisions. When he understood the avowed o- call upon congregationalists to free them from any
pinions of the gentlemen who sapported these res- compulsion ? If the third resolution was a part of
olutions, and their perseverance in them, his fears their proceedings which it was too late to alter, it
were awakened; and he would say of them, what was iniproper to call upon congregationalists alone
Laocoon said to his countrymen, respecting a cer- to support public teachers. All he contended for
tain religious offering of the Greeks,
was equal rights. He stood there as a congiega-
" Quicquid id est, timeo Danaos et dona ferentes." tionalist to resist being put under sabordination.-
Mr. STORY opposed the proposition. It was
But if the proposition of the gentleman from Bos.
his misfortune to be absent when this subject was
ton should be adopted, there would be subordina-
before discussed, and he had taken no part in this
tion. And of whom ? of the congregationalists. ;
question. It was proper to consider what was al- if you compel them to pay for the support of relig-
ready done. The convention had determined by a
ion and exonerate every other denomination of
large majority that it was fit and proper that the
christians. Let the gentleman from Boston, he
legislature should be invested with authority to re-
said, consider that by the third resolution it is pro-
quire that towns, parishes and religious societies
vided that every society, incorporated or unincor-
shall make provision for the institution of the pub-' || porated, shall support public worship. And what
lic worship of God, and the support of religious
was the resolution passed in the morning? that
teachers in all cases where it is not done volunta-
every citizen shall appropriate bis.contributions to
rily—they had placed the rights and duties of unin-
whatever society lie pleases. He asked if by these
corporaled societies on the same footing with those provisions all classes of christians were not on the
thai are incorporated-they had extended the same fuoting. If then you provide that a congre:
right of withdrawing from a territorial parish so as
gationalist shall support religion and compel him to
to permit a person to go from one society to anoth- support a teacher of his denomination, it was alto-
er of the same denomination and pay his taxes
gether unequal to pass this resolution for giving an
there. In adopting these indulgencies they had
exemption to others. In this way, le contended,
given the greatest latitude consistent with the pre- gentlemen did make a subordination. He was wil.
servation of the general principle. So far he was ling to go as far in liberality as any inan, but there
not only willing, but anxionis to go. But they must
was a point, where he must pause; and instead of
stop soinc where. TT
putting all other denominations in subordination to
adopted in the constitution, would really and vitally congregationalists, he could not consent to put
destroy the main principle which had been estab-
congregationalists in subordination to every other;
lished. They would estabilsh the principle in form,
denomination.
but would provide the meaps by which its object
The question was taken on Mr. Baldwin's resol
might be completely and silently done away. They
ution and decided in the negative-74. to 218.
had made already such provision that the right of
The resolution providing that any.counsellor may
equality of denominations could not be sacrificed,
be qualified in the recess of the legislature, by the
but if they engrafted this proposition into the con- governor alone, or by the lieut. governor and any
stitution, it would take away the
counsellor who has been previoualy qualified, was
power
of the leg-
islature to compel the support of public worship in
read and agreed to.
any part of the commonwealth. Its tendency
The committee procecded to the consideration
would be by taking the subject out of the sphere of
of the resolution, proposing to have sherifis elected
legislation, to put it out of the reach of law. He
by the respective counries, instrad of being ap-
had no objection to its remaining as a law, and
pointed by the governor and council
there was no probability that it would be repealed
Mi. LINCOLN, of Worcester, supported the
unless it was abused." if it was in the constitution,
resolution. He said he had received a letter from
the legislature, the courts and juries would be bound
the inover, (Mr. Valentinc) and ne accorded in the
by their oaths to sanction even the abuses that views of that gentleman. The office of slíeriff was
might be tommitted under it. Should it be repeal- a very important one. The appointment of depi.
ed, the great principles of it are alreally adopted in
ties gives it great patronage, and it was the niosi
ché amendments agreed ta-hat unincorporated
lucrative office in the commonwealth. The duties
societies shall be put on the footing of those that
of it affected inemediately the people. He under-
are incorporated, and that every person shall be stood from the gentleman who offered the resolu-
free to go to what society he pleases, and have his
tion, that they should be chosen for not more than
taxes paid to the support of religious instruction
seven years nor less than five, It was found inith-
there.
erlo that they were the circaiures of the governor.
Mr: LINCOLN, of Worcester, said that what On a change of governor the people might be de-
the ultra liberals and the ultra royalists in religion prived of the sberiff
, if he was acceptable to them,
had acquiesced in, seened to be a point at which
or they might not be able to get hini renoved, it'he
we ought to stop. If this proposition were made
was not acceptable. This grew out of the circula
originally, before any other propositions had been stance, in our frame of government, that govern-
accepted, it would have been entitled to a inore or might be elected, against the will of a majority
favorable hearing; but the convention had adopted
in any one county.
a principle that was repugnant to it. He had fore-
Mr. FAY, of Cambridge, said lié rose, because
warned certain gentlemen that they were yielding be saw no other gentleman disposed to answer the
more tlian they intended; but they acted for them-
remarks of the gentleman Iron Worcester. Hei:-
selves, and he acted consistently in holding them to
greed that the office was a very important one, and
their concessions. The congregationalists were
that the people were very much interested in it
;
not contending for superior privileges, bnt while
but it did not therefore foilow that thic sheill
they were willing on the one liand to extend to oth-
should be elected by the people. The sheriff wis
er denomioiitions an equality of rights and immu-
an executive officer, and ought to be appointed liy
nities, they were noi willing on the other to be the governor. If he was chosen by the people, he
bound in latter's, as they would be by this resolu-luvould be making favor for his next election. The
:
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266
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
! passed.
governor would hitúe only the good of the people H land of non residents by expending money for the
in view.
maintenance of moral and religious instructions,
Mr. PICKMAN, of.Saleni, said he agreed en- had not a right to call on the proprietors of the
tirely with the gentleman who last spoke. The of- land to contribute. It was a plain and obvious
ficers would be better selected by the governor and dictate of common justice.
council than by 'the people. Until the unbappy Mr. BLAKE said he perfectly agreed with the
year of of 1808, the. office was always considered | gentlenian that the lands should be taxed, but he
as holden during good behaviour. He hoped such thought there was an insurmountable difficulty
times would not recur.
how to determnine whether they belonged to a
The question was taken on the resolution and person of a different sect. An inquisitorial com-
decided in the negative--141 to 161.
inittee would be necessary for this purpose.
The coinmittee rose, and reported their disa-'
Mr. FLINT of Reading, said that if the taxes
greement to the resolntions of Messrs. Baldwin and of the lands in some towns belonging to non-resi-
Valentine, and their agreement to the resolution dents, were withdrawn from the towns where the
respecting the qualifying of counsellors.
lands were situated, the burden of maintaining pub-
The convention concurred with the committee lic worship would be intolerable
ot the whole in rejecting the resolution offered by Mr. TILLINGHASI said it was not in order
Mr. Baldwin. They also concurred in rejecting to debate the resolution as it had not, been througlı
the resolution of Mr. Valentine, respecting sherifts a committee of the whole,
-179 to 82.
Mr. SALTONSTALL moved that it be com-
The resolution respecting the qualifying of mitted to a committee of the whole.
counsellors, was read a first and second time and
Mr. QUINCY spoke in favor of the commitment,
He said that there werc lands lying in different
The resolution offered by Mr. Fay, for provid- l parts of the commonwealth, owned by inhabitants
ing that all monies paid by the subject for the sup- of the single town of Boston, to the aniourt proba-
port of public worship and of the public teachers of|| bly of two or three hundred thousand dollars in
piety, religion aad morality, shall
, if he request it, value, which althoughbelonging to non-residents,
be applied to the public teacher or teathers, if any, ought to be taxed to the support of the ministry in
on wliose instruction he attends, whether the the towns where those lands lie ;-and that a con-
same or of a different sect or dénomination from trary principle would tend greatly to the injury of
the society in which the monies are raised, was particular towns of the commonwealth, by impair-
read a first time and passed to a second readinga || ing their power to support religious worship.
205 to 79.
Mr. LINCOLN, of Worcester, said he should
The resolution being read a second time,
think the adoption of this resolution a violation of
Mr. BARTLETT, of Medfuril, moved to amend all that had been done. They had voted that all
hy adding a. provision that the taxes raisect upon the monies paid by the subject for the support of
the real estate of uon resident proprietors shall be public worship should be appropriated, if he re-
applied towards the support of public worship in quested it, to the support of the public teacher, ou
the town, precinct or parish where the land is sit- whose instructions he attended. The present res-
uated, unless the proprietor or proprietors shall bo olution would give an advantage to other sects
of a different sect or denomination of christians over the Congregationalists. Some gentlemen in
from those by whom the said taxes are assessed. the country owned estates in Boston, and this res-
Mr. B. said the operation of the resolution was to olution would operate unequally, because taxes for
putpersons leaving their own society and joining an- il public worship are not assessed territorially in Bos-
other of the same denomination, on the saine foot- ton. The proposition of the gentleman from Sa-
ing with those who join a society of a different de- lem, similar to this, had been rejected by a major-
nomination. He did not oliject to it, since it ap- lily of nearly a 100 to 1. There was very little land
peared to be the wish of mcinbers generally, thật of non-residents in the country. No good reason
such a provision should be made; but he saw there could be given for going into Committee of the
would be a great door open for litigation. Christ- whole upon this resolution at this Yate bour of the
ians of the same denomination would claim against session.
each other; the congregationalist against the con- Mr. FLINT said tlie gentleman was not aware
gregationalist. Gentlenen had complained of the how much the towns near the seaboard would be
difficulty and unkind feeling arising from their being affected hy this resolution. It would not operate
obliged in draw out of the hands of the treasurers so extensively on property fifty miles back.
the monies due to them. He proposed to put this Mr. RICHARDS, of Plainfield, said that in the
little amount out of the way of dispute, only be- town in which he lived there were six hundred a-
tween those of the same denomination. The injury cres of land belonging to one man who lived now
would be much greater from permitting it to be a in the city of New York. It seemed to him very
subject of contention, than from leaving it to go to unreasonable that all the taxes on this land should
the support of public worship in the town where be carried out of the town. The intrinsic value
the land is situated. This provision will not affect of the land was increased by the diffusion of relig-
the congregational minister of the town where ious and moral instruction among the inhabitants
the taxes are raised, as he has a settled salary; of the town. He hoped the house would go into
but soine ministers would otherwise bave an in- committee of the whole.
crease of their income from the taxes raised in Mr. WEBSTER said that if they made changes
towns where neither themselves nor their parishion- in the 3d article, giving liberty to persons to leave
ers resided. For the construction of the resolution their own societies and join others of the same de-
will be, that a minister may call for such taxes, nomination, they ought to make modifications in
raised in a society of the saine denomination with respect to taxes, in order to conforin to those chan-
himself.
ges. He had no houses in town, nor farms in the
The question was taken on the amendment and country; he contended for the principle. Every
decided in the negative.
man is bound to pay for the moral principle which
The resolution then passed.
is raised in the copmunity by public worship and
Mr. WEBSTER moved as a separate resolution religious instructions. He asked if it was not a
the anvendment which bad been offered by Mr. denonstrable truth that the value of property was
Bartlett. He said he could not resist the argu- increased by the culiivation of religion and good
ment of justice. He wished to know why thenien morals among the people where it was situated.
who lived in a town and raised the value of l. Take the case of property owned by persons !!!
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
967
a
10wn.
towa.
of the state, as mentioned by the gentleman from ue to every thing in the place where it was sup;
Plainfiela. Have we not a right to tax it when we ported. The gentlenian from Worcester had told
are raising its value ? As to the late hour at which us that his votes here had been rather in deference
this proposition is brought forward, he said they l to the opinions of others, thair iu obedience to his
had already adopted a modification of the 3d article own opinion. He wished the gentleman would in-
at a late horm-a modification for which he had form the boilse when he gave his own opinions,
voted, though reluctantly; reluctantly, because it and when those of his constituents, that they might
was in opposition to the sentiments of gentlemen be able to judge what degree of weight they were
whose characters and opinions he respected.
entitled to
Mr. J. PHILLIPS, of Boston, said he was a Mr. LINCOLA said that he represented the
stranger till this half hour to the natureof the press views of his constituents, and thus was all he should
ent question, but if it was a fact that the inhabi- say in reply to the remark of the gentleman wlio
tants of the town of Boston could withdraw all the Hast spoke. The other gentleman from Boston,
taxes raised upon the lands owned by them in (Mr Thorndike, did not understand his argument,
the neighboring towns for the support of public It was that a minister may be enurely supported
worship, he hoped the house would go into com- by taxes on lands of non-resident proprietors of
mittee of the whole on this resolution.
different denomination from himself. The resolu-
The question was taken for commitment and de- tion wonld operate unequally. Those born in a
terinined in the affirmative 188 10 121.
parish incorporated a hundied years ago, would
A motion was inade that the house should go be privileged over one newly erected, in the same
into committee of the whole tomorrow at 9 o'clock.
Negatived. The house then resolved itself into Mr. BALDWIN asked if this resolution could
committee of the whole, Mr. Dana in the chair. be adopted without undoing what had been done
The resolution being read, Mr. Thorndike mov. in giving a person power to carry all his taxes with
ed to strike out that part of it which 'excepts the hint to the ieacher on whom he attended.
estate of persons of other denominations.
Mr. WILDE had himself no objection to strik- the resolution which had been adopted, but was a
Mr. WEBSTER S
ing out the exception, but thought it would embar- | qualification ; an exception to the general princi-
rass the question and might endanger the whole ple. If the gentleman from Worcester wislied to
l'esolution. He thought it would be a preferable have the ministcrial taxes paid to some person in
course. if the gentlenian would withdraw his ino- the town according to the desire of the owner of
lion and call for a division of the question.
the land, he liad ro objection. All he contended
The CHAIRMAN thought the resolution was for, was, that they should noi be drawn from the
not susceptible of division.
Mr.WEBSTER said the object could be effect- Mr. BLAKE said he saw no repugnance be-
ed in another mode. For the purpose of trying tween the present resolution and the one whicle
the sense of the house, first on tlie general propo- had been adopted. The case of 1101-resident pro-
sition without the exception, he moved to amend prietors had not been provided for. He saw no
hy striking out the whole resolution and inserting reason why a lax för a highway or for a school
the proposition of Mr. Abbott, that all real estate should not be drawri a way from the town where it
of non-l'esidents should be liable to taxation for is raised, just as well as a tax for the support of
the support of public worship in the towns oc par- public worship.
ishes in which it is situated. He said it was well The amendment proposed by Mr. LINCOLN, was
known there were extensive and valuable tracts of
negatived.
land belonging to corporations, and to persons out The question recurring on Mr. WEBSTER's a-
of the state, and to other states. There were mendment,
ſands in the county of Berkshire worth more than Mr. VARNUM said it was improper to in-
a hundred thousand dollars, belonging to thié State troduce new propositions at this late period of the
of Connecticut. It would be difficult to say of what session, when many of the members had gone home.
denomination this state is.
This amendment would do away the effect of a
Mr. LINCOLN moved to amend the resolution resolution which been adopled. Gentlemen were
in such manner that the non-resident proprieter going to compel societies to support public wor-
sball-have power to direct the appropriation of the ship, but were depriving them of the means.
tax to the support of his religious teacher.
They were requiring the full tale of brick,
but
Mr. L. said it was more congenial to his owu were taking away the straw. If the gentleman
feelings that religion should be supported by a tax wanted to pay kis own conuibutions to the support
than in any other mode. He had 'felt constrained of his congregational friends, lie had no objection;
to advocate a contrary doctrine rather iu dciorence but to break in and say that the taxes of all denome
to the feelings of those be represented than in inations shall be paid to one particular denomina-
conformity with his own opinions. If the estate tion-it was a most tuonstruis violation of every
of non-residents was to be taxed for this object, it thing that has been done.
ought to be in the power of the owner to liave the Mr. HOAR could not perceive the consistency
tax applied towards the support of the religious of the gentleman fron Dracut. In the morning lie
teacher whom he approved.
was advocating the resolution that authorizes any
Mr. TFORNDIKE opposed the amendment.-- person to go fiom the parish in which he resides to
It was for the advantage of every estate that reli- any other society and to wididraw his ministeria!
gious worship and moral and religious instruction taxes. He now complains that we are requiring
should be inaintained in the town where it was of all religious societies the full tale of brick and
situated. It might be presumed that in the aggre- taking from then their reans by iliis resolution.-#
gate one religious society would be as much bene- It is the reverse, We are requiring parishes to
fited by it as another.
support public worship, and we wishi by this reso-
Mr.' WEBSTER said that the amendment
lution to preserve to thein the incans of doing it.
would do away the whole object of the resolution, We liave done, with the gentlemau's approbation,
and would be opposed to the principle on which it precisely what he complains of, unless this resolu-
was founded. If there was any thing sound in the tion is adopted. Arr. H.contended zhat ihis tax ougla
principle on which the whole of the third article Il to be placeil ou the footing of everyother taxoa real
was founded, it was that the naintenance of reli: il estate, It was but an act or justite to the parishes'
gious worship and instruction tended to improve where the estate was situated. No other tax was
ibo'stale vi society, and to give an additional val- so takea away. The propriatur of a distant csetle.
!
268
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
1
!
es on
was not allowed to withdraw the highway tax for The report on applications for leave of absence
repairing the highway before his own door nor was laid on the table.
the school tax for the particular education of his Mr. STORY, moved that the resolution offered
own children. The amendment was of greater|| by Mr. Bartlett, and agreed to in committee of the
importance than some gentlemen might imagine. whole, be committed to a select committee
Large portions of many towns were owned by per- Mr. PICKMAN, said that lie had been in favour
sons at a distance. The quantity of land in the of the riesolution, but when be saw the small major-
commonwealth owned by the state of Connecticut ity by which it was adopted in committee of the
he believed was greater than had been stated. whole, and when he considered how thin the
Mr. HYDE, of Lenox, moved that the resolu- house was,coinpared with what it had been, he felt
tion be so amended that the money raised by tax- tinwilling to push it through the house. He there-
non resident lands be equally divided be- fore moved that the subject be_indefinitely post-
tween all the religious societies in the town, in poned. The gentleman from Boston, who sup-
proportion to the valuation of the respective socie- ported the resolution, (Mr. Webster] had told
ties.
them that he had neither houses nor lands in town
Mr. NICHOLS was in favor of the amendment. or country that would be affected by the amendment;
The resolation at present gave to the non-resident but he possessed what was infinitely more valuable,
proprietor the right to select the society to which talents of the highest order', wbich if he would
ile tax on his estate should be paid. When the condescend to apply to the acquisition of property,
minister was unpopular, very few persons would would enable him to possess bouses and lands
be left in the society and they would have the pow- both in town and country. It might be supposed
er of assessing the tax on non-residents.
that he, Mr. P. was the owner of nonresident
The motion was negatived.
lands--but he did not own a particle of real estate,
Mr. TILLINGHAŠT moved to amend the reso- that would be in the least affected by this resolution.
Jution so as to confine the right of taxing to lands, But he thought it was their duty to abandon the
the proprietors of which lived out of the common- measure, in the present state of the house, when
wealth,
they saw how small a majority of the members
'The motion was negatived.
were in favour of it.
Mr. LINCOLN, of Worcester, thought the Mr. HAZARD, of Hancock, hoped the resolu:
whole operation of the resolution was not under- tion would be postponed.
It contained a new
sinod. It was a virtual repeal of the provisions of principle, and many of the members had gone
the law of 1811. The Supreme Judicial Court has home under the cxpectation that nothing of the
decided that the member of a Baptist society who kind would be done. In the town which he l'epre-
owus lands that are taxed for the support of public sented, nrany Quakers and Shakers lived, who it
worship in a towo where he does not reside, may was well known, supported Christianity in their
withdraw the tax for the support of his own reli- own way, and they owned lands in other towns
gious teacher. Sueh an innovation would secure which by this amendinent would be made subject
the rejection of the whole article. Those who be- to taxation.
long to the society of Friends Bave been exempt Mr. WEBSTER was sorry that the mover of
from all taxation for the support of religion for the postponement who had been one of the sup-
forty years. The resolution if agreed to, would porters of the resolution, load now abandoned it.-
arm every dissenter froin the Congregational order It was unpleasant lo bc deserted by one's own
against the amendments, and would certainly be friends. The gentleman says it passed by too
the means of defeating them.
smalla majorily, and for that reason it ought to be
The question was then taken and the resolution abandoned. This was a reason for desisting from
agreed 10-160 to 141.
a just and proper measure, which he had not ap-
The committee rose, and reported the resolu- plied to propositions of his own. He had brought
tion as amended.
forward a measure which alter four days' debate,
Tomorrow at half past 9 o'clock, was assigned passed by a majority of seven. He says it is
for the first reading of the resolution,
brought forward too late in the session. It was not
At 8 o'clock the Convention adjourned.
introduced later than the original proposition, to
which this is an accessary. They were colem-
TUESDAY Jax, 9. poraneous. · He, Mr. W. had not heard a shadow
The house was called to order at a quarter be-
of an argument against the principle of the reso-
fore 10 o'clock and attended prayers offered by Rev
lution. Modifications had been suggested which
Álr. Jenks. The journal having been read. might be proper; he was therefore in favor of the
notion to commit.
Leave of absence was granted to Messrs.
But before the proposition
Chapin of Springfield, aul Mason and Waterman was rejected, he wished to see it met with an ar-
of Adans, 'The report of the committee on leave
gument on its principle-to see its injustice. He
of absence, on several other applications, being
hoped the motion for postponement would not pre-
under consideration,
vail. Gentlemen bad concurred in passing the
Mr. MARTIN, said the convention had been told
principal measure late in the session, but it was
too late to make the necessary modifications of it.
over and over again that it members of the House
of Representatives were paid out of the public
If modifications and qualifications were not made,
chest, how contented they would stay here and
the amendments would be opposed and rejected by
take care of the public business. He thought that
the people.
He hoped the modification which
gentlemen that had used these aruguments ought bad been already agreed to by a majority of twenty .
to stay here until the business or ihe convention
three times that hy which the resolution direct
Was finished.
ing the mode of choosing the Council, was passed,
would be suffered to pass.
Mr. STORY, wished that gentlemen interested
in the subject before ihe house would give way Mr. CUMMINS was in favor of the postpone-
for a moment in favour of a propositiou which it ment. He said the law had been misunderstood.
actedon at all, must be very soon The resolu- The lands of persons not resident in the state are
ciun adopted last evening in committee of the wow taxable--lands of corporations are taxable
whole had produced a considerable excitement.-- where the lands happen to lie-aud for lands be-
He did not know whai might be the opinion of the longing to non-resident individuals, the tenants are
house with respet lo finally passing 11, in the state liable to be taxed. It had been said there were
inwbich it was, but he hoped it night be so nuod. lands of a large amount in the country not tenant-
ified as 16 nude it. alore generally acceptable. ed. This was not the fact. Almost all the farinos
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION:
1
269
1
Hoe in tité towns where their owners reside, sro to Brookline in summer, it is in May or. Juñe, and
leased. In the county of Essex he did not they are not taxable there. He did not believe
know of a single, estate which was not tenanted from the well known liberality of the gentlemen so
and liable to be taxed.
situated that they would withdraw their support
Mr. BLAKE hoped the subject would not be from the Rev. clergymán there--but it would de
postponed He did not think there was much pend or persons in Boston and not on the people of
weight in the arguments against alterations of the Brookline whether he should continue to have a
constitution ſounded on the present provisions of support: The effect of the alteration would be of
the law. He contended thái this amendment was immense extent. If the gentleman who moved the
rendered necessary by the alterations which had postponement, bad lived in the country and had
already been made--that the late period of the ses- seen, as he had, the operation of causes much more
sion ought not to be urged as a reasonf or rejecting trifling than this, in breaking up parishes, he would
t--and that what had been done would be entirely not countenance the inconsistency of taking up and
unacceptable to the people, uvlėss this resolution
forcing through a proposition of this magnitude in
was a lop:ed. He hoped it would not be post- one day, and refusing to consider the modifications
poned, but that the motion to commit would pre- proposed for averting a part of its evils.
vait.
Mr. BOYLSTON said that he now resided in
Mr. SALTOVSTALL thought his friend and the town of Princeton, but if he should choose to fix
colleague last speaking could not be aware of the his residence at Roxbury; where he had sometimes
adoption of the resolution of the gentleman from resided, by the resolution adopted yesterday he
Cambridge, authorizing any person to apply, al| would be entitled to withdraw his ministerial taxes
the monies paid by him for the support of public from the first nanied town. . They paid a salary to
worship to the teacher on whose instruction he at- the minister theme of six hundred dollars, and a fifth
tends; whether of the same or of a different de- part of the tax of the town was levied on his estate.
nomination from that of the parish in which the He thought his estate was benefitted by the sup:
money is raised. This will make a great change port of religious worship and instruction to the full
in our religious establishments, Mr. S. said, and he amount of the tax imposed upon it, and he thought
feared the consequences under any qualification. it would be unjust, and imposing an unreasonable
: muy in effect reduce all our territorial parishes burden on the people there; for him; in case of his
to poll parisliés. Of what avail will be the right to dot residing in the town to withdraw the taxi
tax tlie property within certain limits, when at the Mr. DANA considered this amendment as con
sanie tiine we authorize the owners to withdraw nected wtch that adopted yesterday. He had fears
the taxes, and apply them as they please-some to respecting there both. This was objectionable; in
one minister; some to another, even of the same extending to lands of persons of all denominations.
denonination ? He leared the effect on the per: The Quakers would not pay the tax, but would let
manency and validity of ministerial contracts. tlie lands be sold. He should have preferred to
How much will a settlement contract Be wortli to leave the third article as it was before the adop-
ä minister; when the next year the whole parish tion of the resolution yesterday, but as that could
niay slide íron under him? There is danger also not be done; he was in favor of committing this
that agèd ministers
ular. young man be settled near. Many gentlemen, move his objections:
he said, differed front him, and he hoped his fears The question was taken, and the motion to posts
were groundless : but some modification is neces- pone was lost1410 176.
sary. By this resolution; non-resident taxes as The motion to commit was agreed to, and it was
Nell'as others, may be withdrawn, if the proprie committed to Messrs. Story, Hyde, Bartlett, Childs
tor requests it. Heretofore, these have been
ap-
and Wilde.
plied to the support of public worship in the parish It was ordered that the committee have leave to
where the land is situated, unless the owner is of a sit during the session of the house.
different dendmination. This is essential to the ex- Mr. JÅCKSON from tlie committee for reducing
istence of many parishes, and ought to be continú. the amendments to form, moved; that the resolu-
ed. The vote of last evening goes farther, and au- tion providing that the votes on the amendments
tliorizes the appropriation of all taxes on non-resi-
returned to the Secretary's office shall be counted
dent lands, whether the owirebé of the sanie; or by a committee, and certified to the Governor and.
a different denomination. This is right in princi-
to the Legislature,be amended by adding the fol-
ple, and no one has yet met it in argument. Why lowing, and all the amendments so ratified and
should they not he taxed for this, as well aš for
adopted shall be promulgated and made known to
schools or any other purpose, which tends directly
the people in such manner as the General Court
er indirectly to enliance the value of the property? shall order.is
It is not for the benefit of any particular denomina: Mri JACKSON said it had been determined that
tion, but of the town or parish of whatever denom- the votes should be counted by a committee,
ination, for the constitution knows no distinction
which was to meet a week before the session of
has no preference. This, however, has not been
thc legislature, and that they should certify the re-
practiced, and Mr. S. said he only wished to pre-
sult to the general court. The committee which
serve the constitution and law as it had been in this
bad reported this resolution, had thought it would
j'espect, and lie lioped the subject would be l'ecoma
be as well, to let the general court decide in what
mitted at the motion of his friend, for the purpose
way the result shguld be proclaimed.
öf being modified.
I'he aniendment was agreed to.
Mr. HOAR said he believed the reason wliy the
Mr JACKSON moved to amend the article res
proposition giving every person liberty to separate lating to the change of the political year, by adding
himself from the parish in which he résides, and to
withdraw his taxes, passed yesterday, was because
alter the provision, that the Governor, Lieutenant
Governor, and Counsellors shall hold their officer
it was of such immense inagnitude that it was not
for one year next following the first Wednesday of
comprehended. Its operation in destidying the
parishes of the commonwealth he thoughi was not
January, the words, “ and until others artichosen
seen in its true light. He would uame an instance
and quxlified in their stead."
Tlie amendment was agreed to.
of its operation as it respected taxes on real estate.
Two thirds of the real estate in the town of Brook-
Mr. DAWES, called the attention of the
line, he was informed, was owned by persons who
House to that part of the resolution directing the
reside in Boston, and are taxed there. If they gotobia giren by wie people; in which the person,
manner in which the potes on the amendnets are
/
35
270
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
voting are to express their opinion" by annexing Mr. SULLIVAN of Boston moved to amend
to each number the word yes or no, or any other by striking out all that part which relates to vot-
words that may signify his approbation or dis- ing by ballot, and inserting a provision that the vote
approbation of the proposed amendnient." He
may be taken on each article by liandor by dividing
thought this latitude inight lead to difficulty. It the house. Mr. S.said he thought the easiest and
would permit a man to read a wkole sermon- most intelligible node of proceeding in the town
they had had whole sermons read in the assembly meetings would be, when the inhabitants were
they might read them in town meeting; and put assembled, to read and discuss the articles separ-
them on file; to express their dissent or assent. ately, and when each had been discussed the in-
Mr. QUINCY said his colleague had expressed habitants would be called on to express their
a part of his objection to the resolution. But he opinion by a vote on each article.
objected to that part of it which authorizes any Mr. DANA hoped the amendment would not
one to " give his vote on all the articles or any prevail, but that the voting would be required to
number of them together at his election, without be by ballot and that forms of returns would be
being required to vote separately and specifically sent out to the selectmen of the several towns.
upon each of them.” He said it would prevent Mr. S. A. WELLS said it would be utterly
Vie people from giving distinct votes on each arti impracticable in the town of
Boston to proceed by a
cle." The votes would not be given or returned in hand vote or by dividing. The voters eould not
an intelligent form. He said they were about to all meet in any hall, and the number of votes for
give
the
power of deciding on the returns to an or against the articles could not be ascertained.
irresponsible body, and if the mode of giving the Mr. APTHORP said that by one of the resolu-
votes was not made so plain that he who runs may tions it was required that the votes should be all
read, they were giving the whole power over the given in, on one day. If all the articles were to be
constitution to this committee.
discussed and balloted on separately and the votes
Mr. SHEPLEY of Fitchburgh moved to strike counted on each, it could not be all, done in one
out " or any other words that may signify his ap- day.
probation or disapprobation.'
Persons voting Mr. STURGIS said there was nothing to con-
might use such words that it would be very diffi- fine the meetings to one day; they might adjourn
cult to know what their opinions may be.
if they chose.
Mr. JACKSON said the object in inserting Mr. AUSTIN said the difficulty arose fron en-
the clause was that the individual who voted, or deavouring to force a conformity where it was imi:
the selectmen who certified the votes might nou | practicable. In this town it would be impossible
be tied down to a particular expression: - If they to poll the house on the several questions.. But
should happen to say yea or nay, or use any other in small towns that would be the most convenient
words which were of equivalent meaning, there mode. He moved the resolution should be
was no reason why they should not be received. so amended that the votes may be given by bala
Mr. SHEPLEY modified his motion so as to lot or otherwise as the Selectmen may direct.
insert in the place of the words proposed to be Mr.SULLIVAN modified his amendmentin such
struck out, the following “or any other words of manner as to authorise the vote to be taken by bal.
the same import.
lot in cases where the Selectnien shall so direct.
The amendment was agreed to.
Mr. FREEMAN, of Sandwieh, thought it ought
Mr. WEBSTER thought there might be a fur-/ to be left to the people in their primary assemblies
ther provision which would be of use, especially to determine in what manner they would give
"in small towns. If power were given to take the their vote.
sense of the inhabitants by hand vote, or by di- Mr. PRINCE, of Boston, moved to recommit
viding the house, it would enable them to act up- the subject to the same committee.
on the amendments with greater facility, and more Mr. VARNUM was in favor of the amendment.
intelligently. He therefore moved to amend the He said if the voters were to be influenced by any
resolution by inserting a proviso that any town discussion on the articles, it would not be practica.
may agree to take the number of votes &c. &c.ble to write their votes, after listening to a debate.
against any or all the articles by a hand vote, di- They would not be furnished with pen and ink to
viding the meeting, or by yeas and pays if they || write their votes, or fill up blanks if they were fur-
shall see fit.
nished with them. They would be compelled to
After some debate, in which Mr. Webster brief- furnish their votes beforehand, or to put in such as
ly supported the amendment, and Messrs. Martin, I should be handed round to them.
Quincy, Fisher, and. Lincoln, Lawrence, Dana, Mr. STOWELL was in favour of the recom- ,
and Pickman opposed it, the motion was ne- mitment. They had had a long discussion,but had
gatived.
come no nearer to an agreement. They had been
Mr. ABBOT moved to amend the resolution engaged in a great work, 110t,to be sure, building a
which directs that an attested copy of the articles tower of Babel, but it was hkely to lead to a con-
of amendment shall be sent to the selectmen of fusion of languages.
every town and district, by inserting after 5 se- Mr. BOND was in favor of recommitment, and
lectnien,” the words " and to the town or district proposed a modification which he thought would
clerk, or to the delegate or delegates.”
meet the objection.
Mr. NICHOLS said there were two objections Mr. MARTIN was opposed to recommitment.---
to the motion, the first was that it was an unneces- He said the people in the country understood pret-,
sary expense, and the other that it would give an ty well their proceedings, and were now examin-
undue influence to the persons receiving them. ing them. They were now discussing and making
The amendment was agreed to.
up their minds, and they would not need any dis-
M. ELLIS from the committee on the pay cussion in town meeting.
roll reported the roll with an additional day's at- The recommitment was agreed to.
tendance amounting to 808 dollars, and making in The resolution directing that t’ie returns shall be
all, including trayel, the sum of 56,732 dollars. exainined and certified by a committee of the con-
The roll was accepted, and an order passed, to vention, was taken up for the purpose of determin-
request the governor and council to issue a war- ing the number of the committee and the mode of
rant for the payment from the treasury of the sums appointment.
found on the roll.
It was moved that the number should be equal
The discussion was resumed on the resolution to the number of Senators Negatived.
directing the mode of taking the sense af the peo- M:. LAWRENCE moved tliat the committee
ple on the articles of amendment.
consist of two persons from each congressional
1
MASSA OHUSETTS CONVENTION,
27 1
!
i
district, together with the President of the Cone There may be a difference of opinion respecting
vention. Agreed to.
the combination of articles. As to throwing all
On motion of Mr. STORY, it was ordered that in the wind, -it was not so--they had never yet
the committee be appointed in the usual manner by been out of the wind.
nomination from the chair,
Mr. QUINCY said there ought to be a vote in
Mr. STORY, from the select committee to whom convention on the same questions which are sub
was referred the resolution relative to the taxing mitted to the people; and the articles ought to go
the estate of non-residents, for the support of pub- to the people with the majorities given here in fa:
lic worship,reported the resolution amended as fol- vour of each.
lows:
The order passed.
Resolved, That the constitution be so a- It was ordered that all committees have leave to
mended, as to contain a provision that all
sit, during the session of the House.
taxes assessed for the support of public worship appointed to draft an Address to the People of the
Mr. SÚLLIVAN, of Boston, from the committee
upon the estate of any non-resident proprie- | Commonwealth, reported an address, which was
tor or proprietors, shall be applied towards || read.
the support of public worship in the town,
Mr. DRAPER, of Spencer, from the committee
precinct, or parish, where such estaté lies,
on accounts, reported the accounts allowed for
incidental expenses, and the allowance for the pay
unless such proprietor or proprietors shall be of the officers of the convention, amounting to
resident within the cominonwealth, and shall $3159,60, with a resolve requesting the Governor
be of a different seot or denomination of to issue his warrant for the payment of the same
christians from that ofthe town, precinct, or
from the treasury of the Commonwealth, which was
read and passed
parish, by whom such taxes are assessed.
It was ordered that when the house adjourn they
Mr. S. said that the object of the resolution as
adjourn to half past 3 o'clock this afternoon.
reported, was to reserve to persons of different Mr. JACKSON, from the committee to whom
denominations the same rights which they now the resolution directing the mode of taking the
have under the present constitution and laws, and
votes of the people, on the amendments, had been
to preserve to parishes the same right of taxing the
recommitted, reported the resolution, with certain
estates of non residents which they now have.
alterations, for rendering it more intelligible, which
The resolution as amended passed to a second
were agreed to.
reading. -
He reported also the following amendment,
li was ordered that the second reading of the
which, although a majority of the committee
resolution be now had; and it was read a second
thought it inexpedient to make any further change,
time and passed hy a large majority,
the Convention might be disposed to adopt :-
Mr. WEBSTER said that the rules of the house
“ Provided, That in every town containing
provided for the mode of proceeding, on the a-
inendments proposed, until they came to the last
not more than thousand inhabitants,
slage, but for the form of passing the final act, no the votes naay be given on ench article by
provision had been made. He therefore moved hand vote, or otherwise, as the Selectmen of
the following order.
the respective towns may order and direct in
Ordered, That the final question on the the warrant for calling such meeting."
passing of the proposed amendments to the Mr. WEBSTER moved that this proviso be a:
Constitution, shall be taken in this form :- dopted as an ainendment to the resolution. He
“ Shall.this article of amendment be proposed l thought it would be much more suited to the habe
to the people of this Commonwealth for their
its of doing business in town meetings, that the
several articles should be read separately, discuso
ratification and adoption ?" And on this
sed, and voted upon, article by article.
question the yeas and nays may be called as Mr. QUINCY thought the amendment unnecesą
usual,
sary. The voters would generally come with their
Mr. LAWRENCE expressed doubts of the pro-
ballots prepared
priety of taking the question in this form. He Mr. VARNUM spoke in favor of the amenda
fiad considered it settled that when the amend- nient.
ments had had two readings and passed, they
Mr. SALTONSTALL said he seldom differed
should go to the people in some forın or other, and from the honorable mover of the amendment, but
all questions which should arise would be only to he hoped the motion would not prevail. There
the form.
ought to be a uniformity in the mode of voting,and
Mr. MARTIN opposed the motion. All the he saw no reason against voting by ballot in sinall
resolutions adopted had been considered as finally | places, that did not apply with equal force to large
settled, and with this iinpression many of the mem- towns. The opinion of the people should he tak-
bers had gone home.
But this resolution was
en by ballot only, throughout the Commonwealth.
throwing it all in the wind,
They are not to vote until they will have had an
Mr WEBSTER said that every thing that was opportunity of seeing and examining the amend.
done by the convention ought to be done by some ments proposed,--they will be printed and scat-
final act. · They ought not to leave it to a commit- tered every where in papers and pamphlets, and
tee, but must see the final form of it. It never oc- will become the subjects of conversation. The
curred to him that notwithstanding the forms the journal of our proceedings has been and will be
resolutions bad gone through, they were not to circulated extensively, and we have voted to send
pass a final vole on each article of amendment. it to every town, and people will act more under-
They were like resolutions settling the principles || standingly and correctly to prepare their own
for an act. They had read the resolutions, con-
votes before they go to meeting, than to raise their
sidered them with one deliberation--passed them
hairds after a warm discussion, or a popular ha-
in the form prescribed by the rules and orders, rangue. Mr. S. thought there would not be much
and sent them to a committee to be reduced to discussion at the meetings-it cannot be neces.
form. This was not to be entirely trusted to the sary, and if it takes place, what is to prevent the
committee. In a majority of cases the question meetings in some of the large towns from conti
will be merely formal, hut on some it may be ne- nuing as long as this Convention has ? People
cessary that it shall be taken by yeas
shall be taken by yeas and nays.--
will bave made up their opinions before the second
4
$
272
MASSACHUSETTS. CONVENTIOM.
Monday of April. Voting by ballot Mr. S. thought A motion to fill the blank with one thousand
the only way to secure the free, uninfluenced voice was negatived: also a motion to fill it with three
of the people. Many would fear to lift their || thousand." “ Four thousand" was named, and car
hands differently from those on whom they might, ried-96 10 91,
be in some measure dependant, whatever migbt Adjourned.
be their own feelings and opiniops. The voling
AFTERNOON SESSION.
should be perfectly free. And besides, balloting The 'house met according to adjournment.
is most suited to the dignity of the occasion that Leave of absence was granted to Mr. Gates of
is the mode of voting in all important elections Montague..
Should there be ever so much debating, people Mr. APTHORP made a motion to amend the
may prepare their own votes-the, theory of our resolution read in the forenoon for regulating the
overnment at any rate is, that all can do this. I proceedings at the town meetings 10 be called for
l'hey can fill the blanks with ! yes" or " no.” the purpose of acting upon the amendments to the
There is no connexion between the mode of voting, constitution, by inserting a provision that these,
and dcbațing the amendments. There is danger meetings may be continued by adjournment from
also, that voting by hand-vote may occasion cla- day to day, not exceeding three days in the whole.
mor, and excitement, contention and animosities Mr. A. said his ohject was to remove any doubt
among those whº are are openly' arrayed against with respeci to the power of the towns to adjourn
each other.
their meetings, and also to restrict this power, so
Mr. WEBSTER said he differed from the gan- as to prevent adjournments for too long a lime; lest
tleman froin Salem. He said there were intelli- the inhabitants of one town should be influenced by
gent men in the towns, capable of discussing the the votes given in another.
amendments, and they ought to be open to discus- After a slight debate, in which it was answered,
sion in the town meetings. He asked what ques- that the townis generally knew they had the power
tion had the Convention been ready to act upon of adjourning their meetings, and that such a l'e-
when it was first proposed, without having it dis- striction would be unnecessary and inconvenient-
gussed. He would never agree to compel the the notion was negativedo,
towns to yote by ballot on what ought to be dis- Mr. PAIGE, of Hardwick, moved to reconsid-
cussed and deterininęd intelligently. Because it er the role for filling the biank with four thousand
was impracticable in Boston, on account of the in the following amendment, adopted in the fore-
great number of its inlaabitants, to vote by hand noon, to the same resolution, viz:- Provided that
vote, was no reason for denying the privilege to in every town containing not more than
thous.
small towns, where it was practicable. Gentle- and inhabitants, the votes may be given on each
men overrated the facilities of acquiring informa- article by hand vote, or otherwise, as the Select-
tion in all the different parts of the Commonwealth. men of the respective towns muy order and direct
It would take a twelvemonth to circulate the pam- in the warrant for calling such meeting.
pilet containing their proceedings, throughout eve- The motion was agreed to--123 io 55.
fy town. It was the system of our government, to The question then being for fillong the blank,
have the people give their plain conmon sense Mr BOND moved a reconsideration of the vote,
reasons on all subjects submitted to them in the adopting the amendment; upon which some debate
town meetings. This amendment was the only ensued on a point of order, whether the motion for
way to get the intelligent sense of the people. If i reconsidering the vote hy which the whole amenda
the town meetings should be continued two or ment was adopted, was not previous in its nature,
three days, in discussing the articles submitted to to the question of filling the blank in it.
them, tlie time would be well laid out." A similar Mr. Bond's molion was determined by the Presi-
occasion might not occur again in forty years. dent to be out of order.
Mr. PAIGE, of Hardwicke, was in favor of the The blank was then filled with six thousand, and
amendment. "It would be the most easy and expe- Mr. BOND renewed his motion for reconsider-
ditious mode of acting on tlie articles,
ing the amendment.
"M. WALTER, of Boston, said it would be im- Mr. BLAKE opposed the motion. He said it
possible in a full meeting to count the hands so as was a preposterous idea, that the people of this
to return the number with any certainty.
commonwealth should be tied down to give a silent
Mr. MARTIN hoped the amendment would not vote on fifteen amendments tº the constitution,
prevail. 'The Selecimen should have the ballots when they are in the habit of discussing cien á
of the voters that they might be able to make ac- question of choosing a hog-reeve Voting by bal-
curate returns. It would be impossible to tell how lot would have a tendency to interfere with that
many vote by hand.
deliberate discussion which these amendmenis
Mr. DANA was opposed to the amendment.- were entitled to. They hardly had a right to ini-
He thought the articles would be sufficiently un- pose upon the towns the necessity of voting upon
derstood. Their constituents bad nearly kept pace the amendments without discussion. Froni neces-
with them, in acquiring a knowledge of the subjects sity
, the large 'towns 'would be obliged to vote by.
discussed here. 'He had no objection to their be- hallot, because of the impossibility of ascertaining
ing discussed in town preetings. There could be the number of votes, if they should attempt the
no confusion iſ a particular form of a returu) was other mode; but if they could vote in wards, the.
prescribed. One inode of voting was best, and he same reasons would apply to theņi as 10 the smaller
thought that was halloting. To give a choice of
any other was only enbarrassing the subject. Mr. FAY, of Cambridge, said he did not under-
Mr. RICHARDS, of Plainfield, was in favor of stand, that voting by ballot would preclude discuss
the amendment. It would facilitate discussion in sion. The articles of an endinent nught be discus-
town meetings, and this would be useful in the sed one by one in succession, and each yoter night
small towns, where it was more difficult to get in- have his ballot with him, and when the discussion
(ormation, than where almost every one reads the on any article was finished, he might put his yea or
daily newspapers.
his nay against it, uninfluenced by those about him,
Mr. QUINCY said th? argument had been on and after the discussion of all the articles, put his
the ground that discussion would be preverited if ballot into the box. He said he did not know
that
the voting was hy hallot This was not the case. he should object to its being left to the town, in-
Every, article might be discussed before the ballot. stcad of the Selecimen, to determine the question,
Was given in.
whether the votes shall be given by hand-vole, or
Ilic amendment was agreed 10-165 to $9. hy. ballot. The Selectméo, by the amendment un
*
towns.
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTON,
273
tee, viz :
der debate, would have the power in a large num- On motion of Mr. STORY, it was ordered that
ber of our towns to determine contrary to the gen- 1500 copies of the Address be printed and be dis-
eral wishes of the inhabitants.
tributed among the several towns, in proportion to
The question was taken on the motion to recon- their right of representation.
sider and lost.
Mr. JACKSON reported that the committee for
The President een appointed the committee reducing the amendments to form had made fourteca
which is to meet on the fourth Wednesday of May, articles of the amendments which had heen adopt-
to examine the returns of the votes of the people ed by the Convention, to be proposed to the people.
upon the several articles of amendment to the con- The committee had also agreed to report an amend.
stitution. This committee was to consist of two ment to the resolution respecting the town meel
delegates from each Congressional district. The ings; which was, to insert that the Selectmen shall
President named Mr. Varnum as a delegate from preside in such town meetings,
the Middlesex district; but Mr. Varnum said that The amendment was agreed to.
Dracui had been annexed to Essex Nortli district; The five resolutions hereafter given (vid. p. 274).
to the great displeasure of the inhabitants of the relating to the manner in which the articles of
toivn. Mr. Webster therefore moved, that one amendment are to be acted upon by the peo-
more should be added to the committee; which ple being read,
was agreed to, and the President nominated Mr. Mr. VARNÚM said that the printed copies of
Dana, of Groton, as a delegate from Middlesex these resolutions, with the articles of amendment
district.
subjoined, which are to be sent to the Selectmen,
The following gentlemen compose the Commit- &c. of every town, ought to be signed by the Presa
ident of the Convention.
Pne President of the Convention, ISAAC PARKER. Mr; JACKSON replied, that by a resolution
'w Suffolic District, John Phillips, Boston, forinerly reported on the mode of submitting
Benjamin Pussell, Boston, 11 amendments to the people, it was proposed that the
Essex South, Benjamin Pickman, Salein. President should sign the copy which is to be en-
William Pearce, Gloucester. Il grossed on parchment, and deposited in the office
Essex North,
William Bartlett, Newburyport.
of the Secretary of the Commonwealth, and the
Charles White Haverhill.
copy which is to he sent to the Governor and Coun.
Joseph B. Varnuin, Dracut. | cil; but to require him to sign all the printed
Middlesex,
Joseph Locke, Billerica. ll.copies which are to be sent to the several towns
Samuel Dana, Grcton.
would be imposing a laborious döty. It would be
Hanıpshire North, Elihu Hoyt, Deer field.
sufficient to assure the towns that they had correct
Varney Pierce, New Salem.
copies, if they were attested by the Secretary, as
Hampshire South, Sainuel Porter, Hadley.
provided in the fifth resolution.
Enos Foote,
Southwicic
Mr. VARNUM thought each copy oughi to be
Plymouth,
Charles Turner,
Scituale. Il igned by the President.
Daniel Howard, Bridgewater: \tion if the copies were signed by the Secretary ;
Mr. DANA said it would be a sufficient attesta-
Bristol,
Shepherd Leach,
Custon
Jonas Godfrey, Taunton.
but it ought also to be required of the Secretary to
Barnstable,
Josiah Hussey,
Nuntucket.
transmit them to the several towns. For this pur-
Russell Freeman, Sandwich.
pose he moved to amend the fifth resolution by in.
Ņorcester South,
Sutton: 1 serting after « transmitted," the words“ by him.”
Timothy Paige, Hardwick.
The ainendment was agreed to and the resolutions
Worcester. North, Thomas H. Blood, Sterling
were adopted.
Bezaleel Lawrence, Leominst r.
The fourteen articles of amendment were then
Norfolic,
Thomas Greenleal, Quincy.
l'ead twice ; first, together, and afterwards, arti-
Jolm Endicott, Dedham.
cle by article ; and upon the second reading a
Berkshire,
Nathan Willis, Pittsfield.
few amendmients were adopted.
George Conante
1.
Becicet.
Ordered, That the Secretary cause a competent
number of copies of the said Resolutions and of the
Mr. JACKSON suggested that it would he pro.
per for the cominitiee for reducing the amendments
Articles of amendment to be printed, and that the
to form, to have a little time to go over the Jour-
same be attested by him and transmitted to the seve
nals, and 10, have the Secretary with them; that
eral towns in this commonwealth as directed in
one of said resolutions.
they might be satisfied that nothing hall been omit-
wd in their report. As he was not aware of any
Ordered, That a copy of all the amendments
thing that then required the attention of the house,
made and proposed by this Convention shall be at-
he ivas desirous that it should adjourn for a short
tested by the President and by the Secretary there-
time, and he hoped that in an hour, the committee
of, and transınitted to, His Excellency the Governo
ivould be able to inake their final report.
or, and another copy shall be attested as aforesaid
Mr. VARNU V inquired respecting the article
and engrossed on parchment, and shall, together
which relates to the political year.
with the Journal of the proceedings of this Cona.
171. JACKSON said the commitiée had agreed
vention and the files thereof, be deposited in the
office of the Secretary of the Commonwealtly.
to report as an amendnient to that article, that the
wordsss from and after the first Wednesday in Jan-
On the reading of the second article, Mr. FOS-
TER, of Littleton, moved that the words as of our
žary" should be struck011, and on the fourth day
Lord" be added in all the amendments after the
of July" inserter, and a blank be filled with ones
--so that the article,it valified by the people,should
word." year whenever it occurs as a date. This
go into operation on the cih of July, 1821.
was agrecd to.
This aniendiment was adopted, and the liouse ade
On the reading of the fourth article respecting
journed at a quarter before 3 o'clock, Tor one hour.
city corporations, Mr. S. A. WELLS moved to
insert" majority of,” and Mr. J. Pwillips moved,
to insert? present and voting thereon” su as to have
it read that po city government should le constitu-
The house met again according to adjournment. Ited in any town unless upon the application of
A slight addition which liad been made to the “ majority of the inhabitants of such town
address, which is to go out to the people with the
present a id voting thereon.” These amend- ,
amendments, laring been read, on volion of M., ments were agreed to.
Webster the address was accepted,
In that part
of the fifth article whiclı relates to
Jonas Sibley,
a
274.
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
increasing the number which shall entitle a town Resolved, That the people shall be assem.
to choose a representative, the year 1332 was sub- bled for the purpose aforesaid, in their respeen
stituted for 1831, upon the suggestion of Mr
tive Towns and Districts, in meetings to be
JACKSON, that the census, to be taken every tenth
year by the v. States, might not be officially made legally warned; and held on the Second
known so early as 1831, and every te.ith succeeding Monday of April next; at which meetings,
year.
all the inhabitants qualified to vote for Sen.
In the tenth article, on motion of Mr. JACKSON,
the words with this further provision, to wit":
ators or Representatives in the General
were substituted for the word "excepting."
Court,may give in their votes by ballot, for or
Mr. PARKER, of Charlestown, moved to amend against each of the said Articles of Amend-
the same article by adding a proviso that nothing ment; Provided, that in every Town, con.
contained in the article should be construed to de.) taining not more than six thousand inhab-
prive the Legislature of any rights which it now
possesses in regard to Harvard College.
itants, the votes may be given on each Arti.
This motion was determined to be out of order, cle by hand vote, or otherwise, as the Sea
as none but formal amendinents could be received | lectmen of the respective towns may order
at this stage of the proceedings.
and direct in the warrant for calling such
The question whether this article should be pro- || Meeting. And the Selectmen of the respec-
posed to the people for their ratification, was de-
termined in the affirinaiive-197 to 61.
tive Towns and Districts shall preside at such
On the reading of the amendments, article hy ineetings and shall in open meeting receive,
article, the following question was separately || sort, count and declare the votes of the ino;
put by the President according to order: “shall
habitants for and against each of the said
this article of amendment be proposed to the peo-
Articles '; and the Clerks of the said Towns -
ple of this Commowealth for their ratification and
adoption ?" The Convention adopted each of the
and Districts shall record the said votes and
articles by an affirmative vote on said question; and true returns thereof shall be made out under
all of them without a division except the one just the hands of the Selectmen, or the major
mentioned.
After the house had gone through with reading part of them, and of the Clerk ; and the Se-
and voting upon the several articles, the President lectmen shall inclose, seal and deliver the
observed ibat it would be suitable at the close of said returns to the sheriff of the County,
their session, to invoke a divine blessing upon their within fifteen days after the said meetings,
labours and upon the members of the Convention
to be by bim transmitted to the office of the
on their ralurn to their homes; to which the house
Secretary of the Commonwealth, on or be-
assented, and the President requested the Rev.
Mr. FOSTER, of Littleton, to offer up prayers.
fore the fourth Wednesday of May next; or
After praver's, at about eight o'clock, on motion of the Selectmen shall theinselves transmit the
Mr. VÄRNUM, the Convention adjourned without same to the said office on or before the day
day.
last mentioned.
Resolved, That 7 Committee of this Con-
The following are the articles of amendment as vention shall meet at the State House, in
finally agreed to in the form in which they are Boston, on the said fourth Wednesday of
to be submitted to the people for ratification and May, and shall open and examine the votes
adoption; together with the resolutions pre-
then returned as aforesaid, and shall as soon
scribing the manner in which they are to be act-
as may be, certify to His Excellency the
ed upon :
Governor, and also to the General Court, the
number of votes so returned for and against
Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
each of the said Articles of Amendment.
Resolvcd, That each of the said Articles -
In the Convention of the Delegates of the
shall be considered as a distinct Amendment,
People, assembled at Boston on the Third to be adopted in the whole, or rejected in
Wednesday of November, in the year of the whole, as the people shall think proper,
Our Lord One Thousand Eight Hundred
And in case the votes are given by ballot
and Twenty, for the purpose of Revising every person qualified to vote as aforesaid,
and Amending the Constitution of this Com- inay expțess his opinion on each Article as
monwealth, pursuant to an Act of the Gen- designated by its appropriate nuinber, withe
eral Court, passerl on the sixteenth day of
out specifying in his ballot the contents of
June, in the year aforesaid :
the Article, and by annexing to each num-
Resolved, That the following Articles of ber the word yes, or no, or any other words
Amendment of the Constitution of the Com- of the same iinport ; but the whole shall be
monwealth, which liave been made and pro-
written or printed, on one ballot, in substance.
posed by this Convention, and .which are as follows, to wit:
nambered progressively froin one to fourteen
AMENDMENTS.
inclusive, shall be submitted to the people for
Article First
YES or NO. -
their ratification and adoption,; and if the
Article Second
suid Articles, or any one or more of them,shall
&c. to
bé řatitied by the people in the manner
Article Fonrteen
hereinafter prescribed, the Articles so ratifi-, And every Article that shall appear to be
ad, shall become a part of the Constitution approved by a majority of the persons voting,
of this Commonwealth.
thereon, aecording to the votes returned and
· IN THE YEAR OF OMR LORD ONE THOUSAND EIGHT
HUNDRED AND TWENTY.
}
1
YE6 OW NO.
YES or NO. .
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
278
as
certified as aforesaid, shall be deemed and Wednesday of January, instead of the last
taken to be ratified and adopted by the peo- Wednesday of' May; and the General Court
ple; and all the Amendments, so ratified shall assemble every year on the said first
and adopted, shall be promulgated and made | Wednesday of January, and shall proceed at
known to the people, in such manner as the that session to make all the elections, and do
General Court shall order.
all the other acts, which are by the Consti-
Resolved, That a printed copy of these tution required to be made and done at the
Resolutions, with the Articles of Amendment | session which has heretofore commenced on
subjoined, shall be attested by the Secretary the last Wednesday of May. And the Gen-
of this Convention, and transmitted by him eral Court shall be dissolved on the day next
soon as may be, to the Selectinen | preceding the first Wednesday of January,
Clerk and Delegate or Delegates of every without any proclamation, or other act of
Town and District in the Commonwealth. the Governor. But nothing herein contain:
ed shall prevent the General Court from ass
ARTICLE THE FIRST:
The power and the duty of the Legislature, sembling at such other times as they shall
to require provision to be made for the insti- || judge necessary.
The Governor, Lieutenant Governor, and
tution of the public worship of God, and for
the support and maintenance of public teach-. Counsellors, shall also hold their respective
offices for one year next following the first
ers, shall not be confined to Protestant
teachers, but shall extend and be applied e-
Wednesday of January, and until others are
chosen and qualified in their stead.
qually to all public christian teachers of piety,
The meetings for the choice of Governor,
religion and morality, and shall also extend
Lieutenant Governor, anů Senators, shall be
and be applied equally to all religious socie-
ties, whether incorporated or unincorporat-
held on the second Monday of November ini
ed.
every year, i. stead of the first Monday of
All monies paid by the subject for the sup-
April, and the Members of the House of
port of public worship and of the public teach- Representatives shall also be chosen at the
ers aforesaid,shall, if he require it, be applied
same meetings ; but the meetings may be
to the support of the public teacher or teach- / adjourned, if necessary, for the choice of
ers, if there be any, on whose instructions he Representatives to the next day, and again
attends, whether of the same, or of a differa
to tire day next succeeding, but no further.
Provided however, that such towns or towns
ent sect or denomination, from that of the
and districts, as are or may be united for the
parish or religious society, in which the said
choice of a Representative, may hold their
monies are raised.
Provided, that all taxes assessed for the meetings for that purpose, at such time, and
in such manner as the General Court shall
support of public worship, and of the public
hereafter direct.
teachers aforesaid, upon the real estate of
any non-resident proprietor or proprietors: || tion, respecting the elections and proceed-
All the other provisions of the Constitu-
shall be applied towards the support of pub-lings of the Members of the General Court
,
lic worship in the town, precint, or parish, by
which such taxes are assessed; unless such
or of any other officers or persons whatsoeve
er, that have reference to the Last Wednes
proprietor or proprietors shall be resident
within this Commonwealth, and shall be of a day of May, as the commenceinent of the
different sect or denonination of Christians political year, shall be so far altered as to
have the like reference to the First Wednes-
from that of the town, precinct, or parish by
day of January.
which such taxes are assessed.
The clause in the third article of the Dec-
This Article shall go into operation on the,
laration of Rights, which invests the Legis- | Lord, one thousand eight hundred and
fourth day of July, in the year of our
lature with authority to enjoin, on all the sub.
jects of the Commonwealtli, an attendance
twenty-0'le, and the Governor, Lieutenant
upon the instructions of public teachers, shall Governor, Counsellors, Senators, and Re-
presentatives, and all other state officers,
be, and hereby is annulled.
who are chosen annually, and who shall
No person shall be subjected to trial for
be choven for the year of our Lord one
any crime or offence for which, on convic-
tion thereof, he may be exposed to imprison- / shall hold their respective offices, until the
thousand eight hundred and twenty one
110.1l, or to any ignominious punishment,un-
First Wednesday of January, in the year
less upon presentment or indictment by a
Grand Jury; except 'in cases which are or
of our Lord one thousand eight hundred
and twenty two, and until others are chosen
inay be, otherwise expressly provided for by
the statutes of the Commonwealth. And
and qualified "in their stead ; and the first
election of the Governor, Lieutenant Gov-
every person charged with any crime or of-
fence, shall have a right to be fully heard in
ernor, Senators, and Representatives, to be
had in virtue of this Article, shall be had on
his defence by himself and his counsel.
the Second Monday of November, in the
ARTICLE THE SECOND.
year of our Lord, one thousand eight hun-
The Political Year shall begin on the first dred and twenty-oner
276
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
ARTICLE THE THIRD.
And the foregoing arrangements of the disa
If any Bill, or Resolve, shall be objected).tricts and apportionment of the Senators a-
to, and not approved by the Governor; and
inong them, shall remaih in force until al-
if the General Court shall adjourn within five tered by the General Court according to the
days after thé sartte shall have been laid be- ll provisions of the Constitution.
fore the Governor for his approbation, and The meinbers of the House of Represen-
thereby prevent his returning it with his oh- tatives shall be elected in the following inau-
jections, as provided by the Constitution; ner. Every corporate town containing 1200
such Bill, oř Resolve, shall not becomie a law, inhabitants, may elect oné representatives
nor have force as such.
and 2400 inhabitants shall be the mean in:
ARTICLE THE FOURTH.
creasing number which shall entitle a town
The General Court shall have full power to an additional representative.
and authority, to erect and constitute mumi-
In every case where any town is now u-
cipa' or city governments, in any corporate nited to any other town, or to a district, for
town or towns in this Commonwealth, and to
the purpose of electing a Representative
grant, to the inhabitants thereof, such powers,
such towns and districts, so united, are and
privileges and immunities, not repugnant to
shall be respectively considered as one town;
the Constitution, as the General Court shall
in all things respecting the election of Rep-
deem necessary or expedient, for the regula- resentative, as provided for in this article.
tion and government thereof; and to pre-
Every corporate town; containing less
scribe the manner of calling and holding than 1200 inhabitants, shall be entitled to e-
public meetings of the inhabitants, in Wards, lect one Representative, every other year
brotherwise, for the election of officers under . only; excepting the years in which the valu-
the Constitution, and the manner of return- | ation of estates within the Commonwealthi
ing the votes given at such meetings :--Pro-
shall be settled; when each of said towns
vided, that no such government shall be e- shall be entitled to send a Representative;
rected or constituted in any town not con- || bút the Legislature of that year shall never
taining twelve thousand inhabitants; nor appoint the year in which the next valuation
unless it be with the consent, and on the ap- shall be taken or settled.
plication, of a majority of the indiabitants of
such town, present and voting thereoni, pur-
And the Legislature, at their first sessions
suant to a vote at a meeting duly warned after the census which is now taking under
and holden for that purpose. And provided the authority of the United States shall be
also, that all by-laws, made by such munici- completed, and after every subsequent cen:
sus which shall be taken as aforesaid; or line
pal or city government, shall be subject, at
all times,to he annulled by the GeneralCourt.
der the authority of this Commonwealth;
ARTICLE THÉ FIFTH.
shall divide the towns in each county, wlrerë
There shali be annually elected in the
there are more than one, which according to
mamer prescribed by the Constitution thir- the provisions of this article shall not be en-
ty-six persons to be senators instead of for- titled to send a Representative every year in:
ty persons as heretofore required ; and not to two equal classes ; the first of which shal?
less than nineteen members of the Senate comprise half the towns in number, and
shall constitute a quorum for doing business. I those which contain the greatest population;
The number of districts into which the
and each town in this class inay elect a Rép-
Commonwealth shall be divided for the pur- resentative the first year after they are so
pose of electing Senators shall never be less
classed.
than ten, and the Senators shall be so ap- The second class shall consist of the other
portioned among the said districts, as that corporate towns in the county not entitled to
no district shall elect more than six ; and no send a Representative' every year, each of
county shall be divided for the purpose of which may elect a Representative the second
forming such a district.
year after they are classed, and if there bé
The several counties in the Common- an uneven number of such towns in any
wealth, shall be districts for the choice of county, the largest number shall be placed in
Senators; excepting that the counties of the second class, and the towns so classed
Hampshire, Franklin and Hampden, shall may each thereafter continue to elect one
together form one district for the purpose ; | Representative every other year, excepting
and also that the counties of Barnstable, as aforesaid. Provided that the Legislaturë
Nantucket and Dukes County shall together may place in different classes any two ad-
forin one district for the purpose ; and the lljoining towns which may happen to be in the
said districts shall be respectively entitled to same class, upon their application for that
elect the following number, to wit :
purpose. And each of said classed towns
Suffolk,
six. | Essex,
six, shall be entitled to elect a Representative
Middlesex,
'four. Worcester;
Give:
every year, when such towns shall have the
Hampshire, Frank- | Plymonth,
lin & Hampden, four. | Norfolk,
number of inhabitants which shall entitle
three.
Berkshire, two. Barnstahle, Nantuck-
other towns to elect one Representative ac-
Britsol,
iwo. I tucket & Dukes Co. iwo. |cording to the provisions of this article:
1
two.
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
277
le
And if any two-towns herein directed to be The council for advising the Governor in
resentative together every year, instead of e- sist of seven persons, besides the Lieut. Gov-
, , shall
lecingone separately every other year, the Le-ernor, instead of nine persons; and four of
gislature, upon their application for that pur-said council shall constitute a quorum for
pose, shall so unite them, and prescribe the doing business, instead of; five of them as
time and place of holding their meetings for ' heretofore required.
the election of their Representatives, and The Counsellors shall be annually chosen-
the manner in which their choice shall be from among the people at large, excluding
certified by the Selectmen of both or either members of the Senate and House of Rep-
of said towns; and such towns shall continue resentatives, on the first Wednesday in Jan-
so united until the inhabitants of one of uary; by the joint ballot of the Senators and
them shall have increased to such a num-1 Representatives assembled, in one room,
ber, as shall entitle it separately, to send a who shall as soon as may be, in like manner,
Representative ; or until one of said towns, fill up any vacancies that may happen in the
by a vote of a major part of the legal voters Council
, by death, resignation or otherwise.
therein, shall apply to the Legislature to sep- The counsellors shall have the same qualifi-
arate then, whereupon it shall be their duty cations in point of property and residence
so to do, and to class them in the same man- | within the Commonwealth as are required
ver as they then would and ought to be clas- for Senators; and not more than one Coun.
sed if they had never been united.
sellor shall be chosen out of any one Sena-
And to prevent the House of Representa-
torial district in the Commonwealth.
tives becoming too numerous, the number of In case any person who may be elected a
inhabitants which shall entitle, a town to e- Counsellor, sball not attend seasonably to
lect one Representative, and the mean in- take and subscribe the oaths prescribed by
creasing number which shall entitle it to e- the Constitution, in the presence of the two
lect-more than one, shall be proportionally | Houses of the General Court, at the session
increased in the year of our Lord one thou- | thereof at which he shall be elected, he may
sand eight hundred and thirty two, and eve- take and subscribe the same before the Gov-
ry tenth year afterwards, so that the House ernor alone, or before the Lieut. Governor
of Representatives shall never consist of and any one of the Council, wlio shall have
more than two hundred and seventy-five been previously, qualified.
members, excepting in those years in which
ARTICLE THE SIXTH.
the valuation is settled. And if any town Every male citizen of twenty one years
which contains 1200 inhabitants and up- of age and upwards (excepting paupers and
wards, shall in the year of Lord one thous persons under guardianship) who shall have .
and eight hundred and thirty-two, or in any resided within the Commonwealth one year,
t'enth year afterwards, be found not to con- and within the town or district in which he
tain the number of inhabitants, which ac- may claim a right to vote, six calendar
cording to the provision aforesaid, shall be months, next preceding any election of
requisite to entitle it to send a Representa- 1 Governor, Lieut. Governor, Senators or
tive every year, such town shall be classed Representatives, and who shall have paid by
by the Legislature, and shall thereafter be himself or his parent, master or guardian,
entitled to send a Representative every oth- any state or county tax, which shall within
er year only, until it shall have a competent two years next preceding such election,
| number to entitle it to send a Representative have been assessed upon him in any town or
every year; and no town wifich shall be en- district of this Commonwealth ; and also ev-
titled to send a Representative every other ery citizen who shall be by law. exempted
year, shall ever be deprived of that privilege. from taxation, and who shall be in all other
Every town which shall hereafter be in- respects qualified as above mentioned, shall
corporated, shall be entitled to send one Rep- have a right to vote in such election of Gov-
resentative, when it shall contain twenty- ernor, Lieut. Governor, Senators and Rep
four hundred inhabitants, and not before. resentatives, and no other person shall be en-
The merabers of the House of Representa-titled to vote in such elections.
tives shall be paid out of the Treasury of the
ARTICLE THE SEVENTH.
Commonwealth for their attendance in the Notaries public shall be appointed by the
general court during the session thereof. Governor, in the same manner as judicial
Not less than one hundred meinbers of the officers are appointed, and shall hold their
House of Representatives, shall constitute a offices during seven years, unless sooner ré-
quorum for doing business.
moved by the Governor, with the consent of
No member of the Senate or House of the Council, upon the address of both houses
Representatives shall be arrested on mesne of the Legislature.
process, warrant of distress or execution, In case the office of Secretary or Treasurs
during his going unto, returning from, or at- er of the Cominonwealth shall become van
tendance in the general court.
cant from any cause during the recess of the
.
36
C
}
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
278
General Court, the Governor, with the ad- Provided, that when any person shall be
vice and consent of the Council, shall nomi- of the denomination called Quakers, and
pate and appoint, under such regulations as sh:all decline taking said oath, he shall make
may be prescribed by law, a competent and his affirmation in the foregoing form,omitting ,
suitable person to such vacant Office, who is the word “swear” and inserting instead there
shall hold the same, until a successor shall be of the word “affirm,” and omitting the
appointed by the General Court.
words. “So help me God," and subjoining in-
Whenever the exigencies of the Common- stead thereof, the words “ This I. do, under
wealth shall require the appointment of a the pains and penalties of perjury."
Commissary General, he shall be nominated,
ARTICLE THE TWELFTH.
appointed and commissioned in such manner No oath, declaration or subscription, ex-
as the Legislature may by law prescribe, cepting the oath prescribed in the preceding
All officers commissioned to command in article, and the oath of office, shall be requir-
the militia may be removed from office in led of the Governor, Lieut. Governor, Coun-
such manner as the Legislature may by law sellors, Senators, or Representatives, to qual-
proscribe.
ify them to perform the duties of their res-
ARTICLE THE EIGHTH.
pective offices.
In the elections of Captains and Subalt-
ARTICLE THE THIRTEENTH.
erns of the Militia, all the members of their
No Judge of any Court in this Common-
respective companies, as well those under, as
wealth, (except the Court of Sessions) and
those above the age of twenty-one years,shall
no person holding any office under thé au-
have a right to vote.
thority of the United States (Postmasters ex-
ARTICLE THE NINTH.
cepted) shall at the same time hold the office
Justices of the Peace may be removed from
of Governor, Lieut. Governor, or Counsellor,
office like other judicial officers, by the Gov-
or have a seat in the Senate or House of
ernor with the consent of the Council, upon Représentatives of this Commonwealth; and
the address of a majority of the members
no Judge of any Court in this Commonwealth
present of each house of the Legislature ;
(except the Court of Sessions) nor the Attor-
but no address for the removal of any Judi-
ney General, Solicitor General, County At-
cial officer shall pass either House of the
torney, Clerk of any Court, Sheriff, Treas-
Legislature until the causes of such removal
urer and Receiver General, Register of Pro-
are first stated and entered on the journal of bate, nor Register of Deeds, shall continue to
the House in which it shall originate, and a
hold bis said office after being elected a
copy thereof served on the person in office, l member of the Congress of the United States
so that be may be admitted to a hearing in
and accepting that trust; but the acceptance
his defence before each of said Houses.
of such trust, by any of the officers aforesaid
The Governor and the two branches of shall be deemned and taken to be a resigna-
the Legislature respectively, shall not here-
tion of his said office, and Judges of the
after be authorized to propose questions to Courts of Common Pleas shall hold no other
justices of the Supreme Judicial Court, and
office under the government of this Com,
require their opinions thereon.
monwealth, the office of Justice of the Peace
ARTICLE THE TENTH.
and Militia Offices excepted.
The rights and privileges of the President
ARTICLE THE FOURTEENTH.
and Fellows of Harvard College, and the If at any time hereafter any specific and
charter and Constitution thereof, and of the particular amendnient or amendments to the
Board of Overseers as at present established Constitution be proposed in the General
by law,are hereby confirmed with this further Court, and agreed to by a majority of the
provision, to wit, that the Board of overseer's Senators and two thirds of the members of
in the election of ministers of churches to the House of Representativés present and
be members of said board, shall not hereafter voting thereon; such proposed amendment
· be confined to ministers of churches of any or amendments shall be entered on the
particular denomination of christians.
Journals of the two Houses with the yeas and
ARTICLE THE ELEVENTH.
nays taken thereon, and referred to the Gen-
Instead of the oath of allegiance prescribed eral Court then next to be chosen, and shall
by the Constitution, the following oath shall be published; and if in the General Court
be taken and subscribed by every person next chosen as, aforesaid, such proposed: a-
chosen or appointed to any office, civil or mendment or amendments shall be agreed
inilitary under the Government of this Com- to by a majority of the Senators and two
monwealth before he shall enter on the du- thirds of the members of the House of Rep.
ties of his office, to wit.
resentatives present and voting thereon ; illen
" I, A. B. do solemnly swear that I will it shall be the cluty of the General Court to
bear true faith and allegiance to the Com- submis such proposed amendment or amenda
monwealth of Massachusetts, and will sup- ments to the people, and if they shall be apa
purt the Constitution thereof. So help me proved of and ratified by a majority of ile
Gord.”
qualified voters roting thereon, at nieetings
1
b.
279
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION,
!
Town of
monwearith
&c. to
1
legally warned, and holden for that purpose, j Constitution, which we were required
they shall become part of the Constitution of to do, by the words of the law, ander
this Commonwealth.
which we are assembled.
The following form of retura was adopted, vizi
We have kept in view that the will
COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS. of the majority can alone determine
County of what the Powers of Government shall
At a legal meeting of the Freeholders and be, and also the manner in which these
other inhabitants of the town of quali- | powers shall be exercised, and that it
fied to vote for Senators or Représentatives, is, consequently, your exclusive right
holden on the second Monday of April, A.D.
1821, pursuant to a Resolution of the Con-
to decide, whether all, or any of the
vention of Delegates, assembled at Boston on
Amendmerits, which we think expedi.
the 16th November, A. D. 1820, for the pur- ent, shall be adopted, or rejected.
pose of revising the Constitution of the Com- In the performance of our duty, we
have been mindful of the character of
“ The votes on the several amendments sub- MASSACHUSETTS; and, that the pro
mittted by the Convention, were as follows: fit of experience is justly valued, and
Article 19t.
Yeas,
Nays, that the precious right of self governa
Article 2d. Yeas, Nays,
&c. &c.
ment is well understood, in this com:
Article 14th Yetus,
Nays,
munity. Perfect unanimity is not to
Attest,--A. B. Town Olérk.
be expected in a numerous assembly.
B. C.
Whatever difference of opinion may
D. E. Selectmen. . have occurred, as to expediency, there
F. G.
has been no difference as to the ulti.
niate object, viz. the public security
and welfare. If we have not all agreed
The following is the ADDRESS of the Con-
vention to the People of Massachusetts, which is
in every measure which we recommend,
to accompany the Amendments proposed to be we are satisfied, that natural, and hon-
made to the Constitution :-
est difference of opinion, must 'ever
FELLOW CITIZENS,
prevent, in a like numerous meetingy
IT was provided in the Constitu- || greater accordance than has prevailed
tion, established in the year one thou- among us.
sand seven hundred and eighty, that á
Every proposed change or amend.
revision might be had, after an experiment has been patiently, and fairly ex-
ment of fifteen years. When these amined, and has been decided upon,
years had elapsed, the people declared with the utmost care, and solicitude to
that they were satisfied; and that they do right.
desired no change. The same satis-
We have the fullest confidence that
faction was manifested during the next you will take these things into view,
twenty five years, and would probably when you perform the serious duty of
have still continued, if the separation deciding, for yourselves, and for suc-
of Maine, froin Massachusetts, had not cessive generations, on the result of
made it proper, to take the opinion of our efforts.
the people, on tfre expedienicy of call- In framing a Constitution, or revis-
ing a Convention.
ingi oné, for an extensive Commons
It appeared that not one fourth part wealth, in which various interests are
of the qualified voters in the State, saw | comprised, nothing more can be hoped
fit to express any opinion; and that | for, than to establish general rules,
of the eighteen thousand three hun- | adapted to secure the greatest good for
dred and forty nine votes given in, six the whole society. The revised con-
thousand five hundred and ninety three stitution, which we now respectfully
were ngainst a revision.
submit to you, can only be considered
We have inferred from these facts, as one general Law, composed of con-
that you did not desire any important, nected, and dependent parts. If any
and fundamental changes, in your frame
one part, considered by itself, seem not
of Government; and this consideration to be the best that could be, its merit,
has had its just influence on our delib- and the justice of its claim to approba-
erations, in revising every part of the
tion can be kuown only by its connexe
.
+
1,
280
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
ܢܙ
done so.
ion in the system, to which it apper- | the right and privilege, to join, and
tains.
worship with, any other society of the
With these remurks we beg leave to same denomination; as they now have
state the Amendments which we have the right to join themselves to any, 80-
agreed on, and our reasons for having ciety, of a different denomination from
that with which they have worshipped ;
THE DECLARATION OF RIGHTS. ---furthermore, that the power; and
It is kpown to us, that the EMINENT duty, of the Legislature to require pro-
MEN who framed the Constitution un- vision to be made for the institution of
der which we have lived, bestowed on publie worship, and for the support,
the only article of the Declaration and maintenance, of public teachers,
of Rights, wbich has occasioned should extend, and be applied as well
much discussion among us, the greatest | to soefeties, which are unincorporated,
attention. They appear to have con- as to those which are incorporated.
sidered RELIGION in a twofold view; We recommend also, a provision,
first, as directory to every rational be- that all taxes assessed for the support
ing, in the duties which he owes to the of public worship, 'upon real estate, of
CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE ; but any non resident proprietor, shall be
leaving to every one, to decide for applied towards the support of public
himself, on the manner in which he
worship, in the town, precinct, or par-
shall render bis bomage, avow his de- || ish, by which such taxes are assessed ;
pendence, express his gratitude, and unless, such proprietor shall be resi-
acknowledge his accountability; and, dent within the Commonwealth, and
secondly, as a SOCIAL DUTY, prescrib- shall be of a different denomination of
ing rules to men, in their intercourse Christians from that of the town, pre-
with each other, as members of the cinct, or parish, by which such taxes
same family. They held social wor- are assessed.
ship to be most intimately connected
We propose further to amend the
with social welfare. They believed Declaration of Rights,so as to provide,
moral excellence, to be no less the ef-
that persons on trial for crimes, may
fect of example, and of habit, than of ll be beard by themselves, and counsel;
precept. They seem to have been con- instead of themselves or counsel, as the ".
vinced, that in proportion as the mem. article now stands.
bers of civil society, are impressed with
We propose another amendment,
reverence for the social rules, contain- that no person shall suffer imprison-
ed in REVEALED RELIGION, will they ment, or other ignominious punishment,
be faithful in performing those obliga on official information ; nor unless on
tions, on which political happiness de- indictment by a Grand Jury; except in
pends. Upon such principles they cases expressly provided for by law,
rested those provisions which require || This amendment takes from public
an habituai observance of the saBBATH, prosecutors, the common law right to
and the support of public teachers in arraign of their own authority, any
the sacred offices of that day. In all citizen for misdemeanors, or crimes,
these sentiments we do most heartily | without the intervention of a Grand
concur.
Jury, representing the people of each
But we have thought it necessary to county.
propose some changes in the third ar-
ticle.
ALTERATION OF THE POLITICAL YEAR.
The public sentiment on that part of
We recommend that there should be
the article, which invests the Legisla- ordinarily but one session of the GEN-
ture with authority to enjoin attendance ERAL COURT in a year. We believe
on public worship, has long been defin-
that one is sufficient; that the expense
itely expressed and is well understood; of legislation will be thereby diminish-
and we, therefore, propose that so ed, and that it will be convenient to
much of this article as relates to this bring the common, and the political
subject, should be annulled.
year into conformity.
We are also of opinion that members A pecessary consequence of this
of all religio us societies, ought to have ll change, is an alteration of the time of
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
281
1
holding elections; the day most con- 1 permanent limitation, of the power
venient for this purpose, in the opinion which is to be exercised.
of the Convention, is the second Mon- "THE PEOPLE may impart whatsoever
day of November. " We propose that power they see fit. Their security
all the elections of State Officers, consists in doing this in such manner,
which are to be made by the opeople, that the trust which they create may
shall be made on that day. This pro- not be abused, nor the public welfare
vision will lessen the number of days, betrayed.
It is therefore wise to pro-
which by our present Constitution, vide for frequent elections, and to re-
must be devoted to elections. It will, quire certain qualifications in the elect-
we believe, induce a fuller attendance | ed ;
and the concurrence of dif.
of the people, and a more certain ex- ferent legislative branches on all
pression of the public voice, in the public laws; and so to constitute those
important duty of choosing public of- branches, as that no act shall obtain
ficers.
their joint approbation, which is not
ELECTORS.
intended to promote the common wel-
We are satisfied that the qualifica- fare.
tions as now required in Electors, pro- All free governments of modern
duce some inconveniences, and are lia-times, have found it indispensable, not
ble to some abuses. After a patient only to have two distinct legislative
investigation of this subject, we have branches, but to place them on such
concluded that a residence of twelve different foundations, as to preclude, as
months within the State, and of six much as possible, all such dangerous
months in a town, or district, next pre-sympathy, and union, as may govern,
ceding an election, and payment of a) and direct, the will of a single assém.
State or County Tax, in the Common-| bly.
wealth, constitute a uniform, and in- If the number of inhabitants be the
telligible rule, as to the right of vot- l rule by which ihe members of the two
ing; and we propose the adoption of branches are to be apportioned, and all
this rule, in all elections of State Offi- are to be chosen at the same time, and
cers, and the abolition of all other by the same electors, we think, that the
qualifications pow required.
safety which the Constitution is, in-
We believe that the change, which tended to effect, may not always, be' ob-
we recommend in this respect, will re- tained. If an election should take
lieve Selectmen from mich perplexity, place when very strong, and general
and will enable them easily to distin- 1) excitements are felt, (and from such,
guish between those who have a right no human society can be always ex-
to vote, and those who have not. empt) there would be little to choose
THE SENATE.
between placing Legislators so elected,
After the most careful, and faithful in the same, or in two different assein-
examination of the principles of yov-blies.
ernment, we have not found it expedient We repeat, that the people's agents
to change the basis on which the Sen- ought ever to be distinguished, in set.
ate was placed, by the Constitution | tling a frame of government, from THE
which we have revised. It is an admit- PEOPLE themselves; and that no more
ted principle that the legislative power should be hazarded, on the manner, in
should be given to two distinct assein- which power may be used, than neces-
blies, each having an absolute negative | sarily must be, to give power enough to
on the other.
do that which shonld be done.
h considering this subject, we have dis- The mode in which the two branche
tinguished betweenTHE PEOPLE,of whom es should be constituted, to secure THE
we are ourselves a part, and those who CHECK, which we consider to be so
may be chosen to legislate. It is the highly important, is the only point, as
people who are to be secured, in their to the Senate, which lias been much
rights and privileges,hy a Constitution, discussed among us.
and not their public servants. This ob- In some of the States, in our nation-
ject can only be effected by a clear, and al confederacy, elections for two, or
282
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
RESENTED.
more years have been adopted, as a se- beeonte an insupportable burthen. A
eurity for the independence, and fidelity | House composed of one hundred or
of Senators. In others of them, a Sen-1) one hundred and fifty members, may be
ator must have a large landed estate ;} fully sufficient for all purposes of leg.
in others, such an estate is a required i islation ; but so great a reduction could
qualification in electors; and in some, not be made without dividing the State
á landed estate is required, both in the into Districts, and consequently giv-
elector, and the Senator.
ing up representation by towns.
The basis adopted in the Constita- We endeavored in the system which
tion of this State is, that Senators shat we submit to you-1 To reduce the
be apportioned, throughout the State, number-2 To preserve the privileges
according to the amount of public tax- of town representation-3 To provide
és pajd in Districts of the State. That for payment out of the State Treasury
is, that the liability to be TAXED, shall-4 To insure a general, and constant
be accompanied ly the right to be REP- attendance of the members throughout
We have not heard that the session. -
this principle has been complained of To accomplish these objects, we re-
by the people; nor do we believe it is commend that twelve hundred Inhab-
justly exceptionable, in itself: on the itants should have ONE Representative,
contrary, the experience of FORTY and that twenty four hundred, be the
YEARS entitles it to the most entire re- mean increasing number for every ad.
spect, and confidence. We have not ditional Representative.
thought it expedient, nor do we believe But as nearly one half of the towns in
that you expected of us, to make any the State, contain on an average about
fundamental change in this department. eight hundred Inhabitants, we propose
We have done no more than to make that these towns should each choose a
the necessary provision as to Districts, Representative every other year,and that
and to fix the number of Senators. We they should be divided, by the Legisla-
recommend that the number should be ture, into two classes for this purpose ;
THIRTY SIX; this number can be more one or the other of which classes
Iconveniently distributed than any other will choose every year.
throughout the State. A smaller num- To show the application of this sys.
ber is not sufficient to perform the duty tem ; about seventy four Representa-
required of the Senate ; nor should the tives will come every year, from the
power of negativing the will of the classed towns, which will be one Repa
House of Representatives, be confided resentative for every 1632 Inhabitants
to a sinatler number.
in all the classed towns ; from those
THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTA- towns containiug between twelve hun-
TIYES.
dred and twenty four hundred, will
We have found great difficulty in amen-
come one Representative for every
ding the Representative system in a sat- 1650 Inhabitants; from those towns
isfactory manner. We have all agreed, containing more than thirty six hun-
that whether the Representatives are
dred Inbabitants will come one Repa
few, or inany, representation should be resentative for every 2400 Inhabitants.
according to population, in this branch. These calculations, (necessarily taken
It was the general opinion, that the num- from the census of the year 1810)
ber should be reduced ; that town rep. are not precisely accurate ; but they
resentation should be preserved; that are sufficiently so to show the effect of
payment should be made from the State the system. ,
Treasury. Such mode of payment has It is apparent that towns. having
been repeatedly voted in the flouse, and between twelve hundred, and thir-
on one occasion it obtained the concur- ty six hundred Inliabitants, can send
rence of the Senate. Tliere is reason but one Representative, and that
to believe that it will become the estab-| there will be large fractions in
Jished mode of payment. But if it be some of these towns. Perfect equality
80, and the present system of represen- 1 is not attainable under any system.
tation continues, the expense must soon
There are fewer inequalities in the
)
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
283
1
ļ
1
ܪ
1
proposed system, than in any which mode of election, and we have deemed it
we have been able to form, If the to be proper, so to amend the Constitu-
four objects which we have mentioned tion, as to establish this mode. This
are to be provided for; and we be change, which we propose, is, in effect,
lieve that the progress of population, nothing inare, than doing away the useless
will constantly diminish those inequal form of choosing from the Senate. We
ities which may now exist.
did not prefer to elect Counsellors by a
We propose that in those years in general ticket, because we believe, that
which the valuation is settled, everythere would be some difficulty in agreeing
town shall be represented.
on candidates ; and that the electors,
By the proposed system the number throughout the State, would not have such
of Representatives will be about two knowledge of candidates, as would enable
hundred and sixty. We have thought them to exercise the right of suffrage in a
We
it proper to offer to you further provi- | manner satisfactory to theraselves.
sions, intended to prevent an increase,
did not prefer to choose Counsellors in
in the number of Representatives, over
Districts, because we were of opinion,
two hundred and seventy five, in any
that it would not be agreeable to the citi-
future, time. This may easily be
zens to be associated to exercise the right
done, by empowering the Legislature of suffrage, on this occasion, as they
toʻaugment the ratio, after successive
would not be so united, on any otlier.
And that it would be a useless labor and
enumerations of the Inhabitants.
There was very little difference of expense to forno such districts, and an un-
opinion among us on the expedieuey of necessary burthen on the people to meet
providing, that no town shall be here and vote in them.
after incorporated with the right of
We conceive, that a choice by the Le
sending a Representative, unless it gislature, is a choice by the people,
contain twenty four hundred Inhabia through the agency of their public servants.
That Counsellors so chosen, and who en-
tants.
ter on the duties assigned to them, as soon
If you are not willing to District
as they are chosen, will be more itidepend-
the Commonwealth to elect members
of the House : if you are not willing dependent of those who desire executive
ent of the Chief Magistrate, and more in-
to continue the present mode of nume-
rous representation, with the liability though not less responsible to the people,
favor, than if chosen in any other mode,
accrue from paying out of the public two Houses. We have all concurred in
because elected by the joint ballot of the
Treasury, some such system as we
the opinion, that more than seven Couna
propose must be resorted to. We will
sellors are not necessary.
not say that this is the best that could
THE JUDICIARY.
be; but we may justly say, that we
In the JUDICIAL DEPARTMENT, we think
have spared no exertion to form, and
Two amendments are expedient.
to present to you, the best which we
An independent Judiciary is a funda-
could devise,
mental principle of a free government.-
LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR AND
We cannot so well express our sentiments,
COUNCIL.
on this important subject, as by referring
We recommend that the Lieutenant
to the twenty ninth article of the Declara-
Governor should have the like quali- tion of Rights,
fications as are required in the Chief It is there said, “It is the right of every
Magistrate, for the obvious reason, 1 citizen to be tried by Judges as free, im-
that the duties of the Executive De- || partial, and independent, as the lot of
partment may devolve on him.
humanity will admit:" and therefore,
During the last fifteen years the Coun- ' that Judges should hold their offices as
sellors have been chosen by the Legisla- ||long as they behave themselves weli."
ture, from the people at large ; after an THE JUDGEs have not such tenars of office,
election from among those citizens, who unless the Constitution be understood to
were returned as Senators, and Counsel- mean, that they are not liable to removal,
lors, followed by resignation.,' Experience until they have had an opportunity to
luas shewn no inconvenience in this show that the alleged causes for ' removal,
1
} i
984
MASSACHUSETTS GONVÉNTION,
--
܀
sary.
are unfounded, or insufficient. The Lego | by any Judicial Officer, affecting the ins.
isláture in removing a Judge, exercises terest of any citižen, but upon full hears
nat only a discretionary, but à Judicial ing, according to law. Fourth, If the
power. . Judgment cannot justly be giv- question proposed, should be of a pub-
en, in any case, affecting any interest, e- lic nature, it will be likely to partake
ven of the humblest citizen, unless the of a political character, and it highly
cause has been first stated, and it has concerns the people that Judicial Officers.
Been permitted to him to show, what he should not be involved in political or party
considers to be the truth of his case. discussions.
It cannot, then, be consistent with the We, therefore, recommend that this
plainést principles of justice, that the second article, should be annulledo,
public functions of a citizen, and perhaps SECRETARY AND TREASURER.
his reputation, may be taken from We recommend that the Executive should
him, without any other notice from those be empowered to fill vacancies: occurring in
who may exercise such power, 'than that these depaitments, during the recess of the
they have exercised it, and that his rela- | General Court ; until a constitutional elec- .
tion is made.
tion to the public has ceased.
MILITIA.
In whatever estimation we mày hold the We propose that the office of Commissary,
rights, and interests, of any individual who
General should not be filled by legislative e-
sustains a high Judicial office, it is rather | lection; nor in any other manner, excepting
the public right, and interest, which move as the Legislature inay by law provide ; if
us to propose the subjoined amendment. such an officer should, liereafter, be necesa
THE PEOPLE can have no dearer inter-
est in any thing pertaining to Govern-military duty, and have consequently a direct
AS MINORS are required by law to perfòrnı
ment, than in the interpretation of the interest in the qualifications for Office, itt
Laws, and in the administration.of Jus- those whom they are holden to obey, the want
tice, affecting life, liberty, property, and of discretion, which is legally affirmed of
character. The Constitution, with the minors in other cases, is not applicable to this,
explanatory amendment which we pro-
and we have, therefore, proposed an amend-
pose, secures to the people the unques- I ment, which authorizes those minors, who
tionable right of removing the unfit, the choice of officers.
are enrolled in the militia, to vote in the
ulworthy, and the corrupt; while it se-
To dininish expense in the militia service,
cures to them the no less valuable right of and to secure able and faithful performance
preserving to themselves; the ables the up- of duty therein, we think it expedient to en-
right, and the independent MAGISTRATE. power the Legislature to provide, by law,
We propose, therefore, so to amend for the removal of officers, in certain cases.
the Constitution as to require, that no Ju.
OATHS OF OTTICE.
dicial Officer shall be removed from office,
We recommend that the oath of abjuration
be abolished. However proper this oath
until the alleged causes of removal are
stated on the the records of the Legisla-:taining its conflict for INDEPENDENCE, with
may have been, while this country was main-
ture; nor until the individual, thereby || the mother country, the success of that con-
affected, shall have had an opportunity to flict, and the lapse of time, have rendered
be heard.
that oath inapplicable to our condition.
* In the second article of the third chap- We have agreed that the declaration ofbem
ter-it is provided ; thắt each Branch of ſlief in the Christian religion, ought not to be
the Legislature, as well as the GOVERNOR required, in future; because we do not think
the assuming of civil ofice, a şuitable, ocea-
and CỘUNCIL, shall have authority to re-
sion, for so declaring ; and because it is im-
quire the opinion of the Judges, on impor-pied, that every man who is selected for of-
tant questions of law, and upon solemn fice; in this community, must have such sen-
occasions, We think this provision timents of religious duty, as relate to his fit-
ought not to be a part of the Constitution; Iness for the place, to which he is called..
because;. First, Each department. ought DISQUALIFICATIONS FOR OFFICE.
to act on its own responsibility. Second,
Some amendments are recommended in
Judges may be called on to give opinions this division of the Constitution, founded on
one, or other of these principles, viz: First,
on subjects, which may afterwards be
to preveut the exercise, by the same individ-
drawn into Judicial examination before
nal, of those powers of government, which
them, by contending parties. Third, No the Constitution ordains to be kept separate.
opinion ought to be formed, and expressed, Secondly, to preserve that distinction between
:
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
285
the National and State Governments, which 1 tives, and a majority of the Senate in two sus-
the principles, on which these governments cessive Legislatures, shall determine, that
are relatively founded, require.
any specific amendment of the Constitution,
NOTARIES PUBLIC.
is expedient, such proposed amendment shall
No difference of opinion occurred, on the'll be submitted to the PEOPLE ; and if accepted
expediency of transferring the appointment || by the people, the Constitution shall be a-
of these officers, from the Legislative, to the mended accordingly. We believe that the
Executive department.
Constituțion will be sufficiently guarded from
HARVARD UNIVERSITY.
We have thought it proper to inquire into inexpedient alterations, while all those which
the present state of this ancient, and respect- | sidered, and may be obtained, with compara-
are found to be necessary, will be duly con-
able Institution ; and have done this by the tively small expense.
agency of a fully competent Committee.---
MODE OF SUBMITTING AMENDMENTS.
We have made this inquiry, because this sem- We have determined, that it is not expe-
inary has experienced the patronage of Gov- dient to make a new draft of the Constitu-
ernment from its earliest foundation; and tion; we believe it would be more acceptable
was justly held to be worthy of appropriate to you, to see the proposed amendments, sepe-
constitutional provisions, by our predeces- rately. We, therefore, send them to you in
sors. It appears that the powers conferred this manner; and numbered successively ;
on Harvard University, have always been ex- and accompanied ly a form, in which assent,
ercised, and that the duties required of it, or dissent, may be easily expressed, and made
have always been performed, with a sincere, known.
and ardent desire, to promote the diffusion You will perceive, that if the amendments,
of useful knowledge; and to establish and are adopted, the amended Constitution, will
preserve an honorable reputation in literature
go into operation on the fourth day of July,
and morals, in this community:
in the present year; and that the FIRST elec-
We have, however, thought it proper, with tions will take place on the second Monday
tlte consent, and approbation of the Corpora- of November next; and that the State Offi-
tion, and Overseers of the University, to cers, then chosen, will commence their offi-
ropose to you, that the Constitution should cial duties, on the first Wednesday of Janua-
be so amended as to make Ministers of the
ry, next following.
Gospel, of any denomination, eligible to the Afier due deliberation, we have decided,
office of Overseers.
that it is most expedient, and proper, that a
For further illustration of this interesting large Committee of the Convention shall be in
subject, we beg leave to refer to the REPORT session on the fourth Wednesday of May
of the Committee, which was read in Conven- next, to receive the returns from the several
tion, and ordered to be published.
towns; and that this Committee shall exam-
INCORPORATION OF CITIES
ine the returns, and certify the result, to the
It appeared to us, that it would be conven- Governor, and to the Legislature, which will
ient, and proper, that towns containing i be in session on, and after the last Wednes-
than twelve thousand inhabitants, day of May next. The Legislature will then
should, on application of their qualifi-, li declare to the people, in such manner as the
ed voters, by petition to the Legislature, be | Legislature may see fit, THE WILL of the
incorporated, with municipal, or city, powers, people on the amendinents, which we submit
and privileges. Without such powers, and to them.
privileges, the inhabitants of such towns, must We think ihis, FELLOW CITIZENS, a prop-
continue to vote, in one meeting, however nu- er occasion to allude to those grateful senti-
merous they may become. This is already | ments, which we feel in common with your-
found to be an inconvenience in two towns, selves, for the blessings which have been
for the reinoval of which, provision ought to experienced in this highly favored community.
be made. Under the limitations, and re- That pious, virtuous, well informed men
strictions, which we have provided, we can should have been inspired to seek a home on
see no reason why the power to incorporate, these shores, and should have been support-
should not be vested in the Legislature. And ed in all the perils inseparable from their en-
we, therefore, recommend an alteration of terprize ; that their intelligence, and manly
the Constitution, so as to effect this purpose. I virtues, should have been transmitted through
PROVISION FOR FUTURE AMENDMENTS. successive generations to descendants, who
It may be necessary, that specific amend- dared to well and to effect, a terinination of all
ments of the Constitution should hereafter be l political connexion, with a powerful kingdom ;
made. The preparatory measures in assen- and these descendants should have beepable,
bling a Convention, and the necessary ex- in the midst of war, and of civil dissentiori
,
pense of such an assembly, are obstacles of so establish a REPUBLIC, so wrsely balanced,
sorne inagnitude, to obtaining amendments as to accomplish every rational, and benefie
through such means; we propose that when- cent purpose which they had in view, are
ever two thirds of the House of Representa- subjects which come to our recollection, at
inore
37
236
MASSACHUSETTS CONVENTION.
}
2
this time, with pecültar iðterest. We do Among the duties of gratitude,, is that of
feel, and it becomes us to acknowledge, that showing that we are worthy of these hless-
we are a favored, and a happy people, in purings, by conscientiqusly preserving them;
national and domestịc relations and espe- among the obligations which are inseparably
cially that while so much of the civilized connected with these blessings, is that of
world is struggling with 'serious and fearful transmitting them, to those who are to come,
difficulties, it is permitted to this community, as faithfully,as they have been guarded for us.
peaceably to assemble, and to deliberate, In Convention, Jan. 9, 182l-Read and Aceepted.
and decide on the best imeans of securing A TROF C,QPY.
and perpetuating, social BENEFITS, and un- ISAAC, PARKER, President.
questioned RIGHTS.
ATTEST, BENJ. FOLLARD, Secretary
3
1
INDEX
,
Ahhreviations-m. for motion-res. resolution—3. speech. Where neither abbreviation precedes any
subject, s, is in general to be understood ; denoting cither a speech or an expression of opinion,
m.
$
1
res, com-
-
com-
Abbot-m. on amendments, p. 270. s. on third versity, 44, 46, 221, 246. oaths, 100, 186. eourse
article, 166, 259. m. dio. 262. city governments, of proceeding, 189, 256, 267. h.of rep, 151. rules,
99. m. and s. session of general court, 53. filing 26. test. 91. voters, 124.
informations, 211. order, 255. course of proceed- Baldwin, of Egremont-uniting towns, 152, 233. .
ing 259. house of representatives, 242. senate, 132. Bangs, of Hawley~-uniting towns, 152.
Accounts-committee on, 40,222. report, 256,271. Bangs of Worcester--in. report on elections, 30.
Adams, of Quincy-chosen president, 8. commit Plymouth election, 31. lieut. governor, 67.
tee to inform him, 9. he declines, 10. resolutions do. 67 to 70.: .m. minors in militia voting, 40, 79,
complimentary to, 9, 10. his answer, 10. seat as- 172, 173, 179, 278.
signed him, 11. entry into the convention, 11. has Banister-future amendments, 184. third article,
leave of absence, 152. m. third article, 193, 209, 178. h. of rep. 229, 233. senate, 150.
212. m. thanks to Boston athenæum, 17. city Bankgeres, for makittg stockholders liable,
governments, 99. council, 103, 108. governor, 110. 240, 243, 244, 245, 248
course of proceeding, 51, 86, senate, 134.
Bartlett, of Medford-third article, 266, m. do.
Address to the people--committee on, 188, 192. 266 to 269, 271, 275.
address reported, 271, 273, 279.,
Bartlett of Plymouth Plymouth election, 32.
Affirmations-see oaths.
Beach-
mm.compensation of members, 21,, judi-
Alvord--incompatibility of offices, 183. m.do. ciary, 220. m. do. 163, 220. militia, 173. h. of
183, s. h. of rep. 233. m. sepate, 249. s. do. 240, rep. 241. m. voters, 116.
249.
Bills and resolves-les. for governor's returning,
Amendments committee on subnitting to the 41, 54, 57, 58, 65, 276.
people, 67. l'eport 97, 111, resolution on submit- Blake of Boston-on resolutions on Mr. Adams,
ting articles, 97, 111-257, 258, 279, 274. 'res, town 10. on address, 188. amendments, 113, 209, 272.
meetings, 97, 111--257, 258, 273, 274.
future amendmenis, 95, 184. third, article, 166,
niittee to receive returns of votes, 97—257,258,270, 190, 194, 253, 266, 269. city governments, 98, 99.
271, 273, 274. committee, 273. res. copies of commissary general, 55. revising constitution, 19.
amendments, &c. 97--273, 275. res. on making council, 70, 76, 77, 81, 82, 103, 107, 108, 155, 156,
articles, 97, 111, 117, 118. res. mode of people's 243. m. do. 103, 104, 243-108, '109-154, 155,
voting on articles, 97, 258, 269, 270,271, 273, 274. 156-declaration of rights, 159, 209, 210, Charles-
m. for a committee to reduce to, forin, 126. town election, 39. Rarvard, university, 49, 50.
mittee, 132-ordered to report, 222--reports, 236. libels, 244. lieut. gov. 48. order, 63, 81, 82, (as
255, 271, 273, 274 to 279-leports discussed, 236, chairman) 109. course of proceeding, 117, 1892.
257, 258, 259, 269 to 274. m, time of amendinents 214, 228. m. do, 117,256. h. of rep. 151, 224, 225,
going into effect, 132. form of final question on the 232. rules, 13. senate, 118, 132, 149, 223, 224,
articles, 271, 274. articles read twice, amended, 225. exemption from taxes, 212. voters, 122,
and adoptéd, 273, 274. articles as finally agreed 186, 187, 250. m. do, 125–186, 187, chairman,
res. fature amendments, 66, 94, 95, 183, of committee of whole, 109.to.111..
18-1, 187, 188, 278.
Bliss, of Springfeld-ramendments, 117. third ar-,
Apthorp-ratification of amendments, 257, 270. tiele, 180, 181, council, 70, 71, 73, 74, 75, 81, 82,.
m. do. 272. future amendments, 183, 187.
104, 108. m. do. 73, 82, 108. session of general
missary general, 56. counci), 75, 106. m. do. 81. court, 52. newspapers, 22. order, 53, 59._rules, 27.
lieut. gov. 69, 151. m. do. 80. militia, 173. news- m. do. 19, 30. test, 92. chairman of committee on
papers, 23. order, 189. course of proceeding, 79. declaration of rights, 21-report, 100--new draft.
11. of rep. 153, 24:2. rules, 13, 24.
of report, 131,250 to 255..
Austin, of Boston—anendments, 270. m, on do. Bond, of Boston-ramendments, 117, 272, 273.
259. future amendments, 183, 184. third article, banks, 2-15. commissary general, 55. council, 71,.
206. defence by self and counsel, 209, 211. dele- 156, 243. newspapers, 29 order, 81, 82, 116.
gates to congress, 57. rep. to congress, and clean course of proceeding, 116, 228, 256, 270. 'h. of
cors of president, 53, 61. m.do. 57 to 61,
to GÍ. council, rep. 228, 230, 233. lules, 26.
106, 157. Charlestown election, 38. m. elections, Boston atlienacum-use of, offered, 16. vote of
127. Harvard university, 221. judiciary, 234. m. thanks, 18.
do. 213 to 220. libels, 244. newspapers, 22. order, Boylston--amendments, 2576 third article, 212,
116. h. of rep. 232. rules, 13. `senate, 131, 203. 269. 07. do: 209, 212.. Harvard university, 247.
test, 88. voters, 123.
school fund, 259. uniting towns, 152. voters, 249.
Austin, of Charlestown-declaration of rights, Chairmen of committees of the whole-on Har.
161,210.' defence by self and counsel, 210. Charles- vard university, Varnum, 42 to 49, 49 to 50: general
town clection, 39. p. elections, 42, 97, 127, 152. court, secretary, &c. delegates, &c. Webster, '50
Harvard university, 247. liéut. gov. 68. h. of
P.
to 54, 54:0 57. lieut. governor, council, &c. Var-
29, S. and m, secretary and treasurer, 56, 57. num, 67 to 71,73 10 78, 80 to.83. oaths, &c. Da-
treasurer, 55.
na,. 33:10 91, 91 to 95, 97 to 100-Varnum, Ik
Baldwin, of Boston--third article, 167, 120, licut. governor, council, &c. Varnum, 102, CA
191, 253, 262, 267. m. do. 180, 181.-253, 256, 101, 105 to 109. governor, militia, &c.: Blake
1962 in 266. counci), 76. m.do.81. Harvard uni- 109 10 111. Senáte, &c. Varnum, 113 to 117.-
on, 275,
com-
>
1
ī
7
INDEX
+
S
res.
j
Webster, 118 to 122, 122 to 126, 127 to 131. Quin. constitution, 81. council, 243. defence by self
cy, 132 to 137, 137 to 148, 149 to 152, 152 to 153. and counsel, 209. reports on elections, 30–36.
Jieul. governor, council, &c. Webster, 153 to 154,) Plymouth electior, 31. Charlestown: do. 36-40.
155 to 158. déclaration of rights, Varnum, 159 to report on general court, 40. s. on do. 50, 53. m.
163, 163 to 168, 163 to 171. governor, nilitia, &c. on do. 53-54.
governor, 54, 110, 111.
Har-
Dana, 171 to 173. declaration of rights, Varuum, vaid university, 49, 221, 223, 247. judiciary, 213,
174 to 175, 175 to 179, 179 tu 182, 188-tó 192, 192 220. lieut. gov. 69. newspapers, 22, 23. m. do.
to 202, 203 to 208, 209 to 212. solicitor-general, 22. 'order, 63, 75, 82, 109, 225, (as chairman) 86,
Fyy, 213. judiciary, Morton, 213 to 219, 220 to 267. course of proceeding, 256. h. of rep. 120.
221, Harvard university, &c. Pickman, 243 to 248. 233. rules, 23, 26. m. do. 23, 27. senate, 118,
declaration of rights, Webster, 259 to 262, 262 10 135, 149, 150, 223. m. do. 14, 16-223, 224. so-
266-Dana, 266 to 268. chairmen vote, 125, 202. licitor general, 213, 219. res. do. 155, 213, 219,
chairman appointed in committee, 100.
220. voters, 124, 125, 187, 249. m.do. 187. re-
Chaplains--12, 16, 17.
port on do. 222, 233. chairman of committee of
Childs-amendments, 117. future amendments, whole, 83 to 91-91 to 95--97 to 100--171 to 173
95. third article, 164, 175, 251. m. do. 159, 164, 266 to 268-resigns the chair to vote for president
174 to 179, 251, 252.. committees, 20. m. do. 20, of united states, 100. ;
21. session
session of gencral court, 54. judiciary, 216. Davis, D. of Boston-amendments, 110, 112,258.
lieutenant governor, 68. senate, 116, 137,
third article, 181. council, 71. m. do. 71. Ply
City governments-35, 66, 97 to 99, 184, 185,
, , mouth election, 34. governor, 110. Harvard uni-
188, 276
versity, 46. judiciary, 216. b. of rep. 121. course
Colby--third article, 252.
of proceeding, 181.
Commissary general-mappointment of, 55 to 58, Davis, J. of Boston--on resolutions on Mr. Ad-
278.
ams, 10. third article, 212. defence by self and
Constitution--mode of revising, 14, 15, 16, counsel, 210.
for parcelling it out to ten committees, 15, 16, 18, Dawes--amendments, 257, 270. third article,
19, 20. committees, 21, 22. made standing con- 161, 194. defence by.self and counsel, 210. order,
mittees, 65. see amendments.
109. course of proceeding, 105, 157. rules, 13.
Convention-list or delegates, 5. assembled and yeas and nays, 63, 64. "
called to order, 8. credentials of members, 8. Dean, of Boston--third article, 175. test, 92.
secretary, 8. president, 8, 11, 168. furnished with Dearborn--printed ballots, 234. commissary
copies of constitution, 11--with newspapers, 22, general, 56. council, 153. res. lieut. gov. coun-
23—with journal of debates, &c. 243, 256. pray- cil, &c. 102, 105, 153, 154. Harvard university,
ers at opening of session, 11-at close, 274. seats, 221, 246. course of proceeding, 21, 119. res. h.
11, 16. elections, 11. messenger, 11. monitors, 12, of rep. 127. senate, 125, 126. res. de. 122, 125
213. chaplains, 12. rules, 11, 12, 13, 16, 23, 192, to 148. test, 87.
208, 249, 255. compensation, 13, 18, 21. payroll, Debt--imprisonment for, 49,73, 220, 221.
13, 233, 256, 270. accounts, 40, 222, 256, 271. Declaration of rights--rés, for referring, 15, 16,
sils on christmas day, 182. adjourns without day, 20. committee, 21, 30. report, 100.. reconimit-
274.
ted, 118. 'new draft of report, 131, 250, 251, 254,
Congress-delegates to, referred, 15, 16, 20. 255. same discussed, 159 to 171, 174 10 182, 186
committee, 22. report, 41, 42, 57 to 61, 65. m. for to 212, 250 to 255. res. substituting' person, and
choice of representatives,and electors of president, 6.citizen,' for subject,' 161, 250. res. attendance
&c. in districts, 57 to 61. m. for commissioning on public worship, 161, 162, 209, 250, 255, 275.--
representatives, 57.
res. for supporting public worship, 162 to 171, 174
Council, &c.-res. for referring, 15, 16, 20 - to 182, 188 to 192, 209, 250, 251 to 255, 275. res, on
committee, 22, 30, 35. report, 57. discussed,&c. mode of do. 162 1o 171, 174 to 182, 188 io 209, 254,
67 to 71,75 to 78, 80 to 83, 102 to 104, 105 to 109, 255. proposition on third article, 159, 164, 209.
118, 153 to 158, 242, 243, 249. res. on number and do. 159, 188, 189 to 192. do. 162 to 164, 181, 182,
quorum, 58, 67, 70, 118, 154, 242, 249, 277-79, 188, 189. do. 262. do. 182, 186, 189. do. 202,
171, 172, 173, 179, 277-95, 119, 226, 240, 277.-- 253, 255, 256, 259 to 262, 266, 275. do. 179, 180.
res. for choice hy legislature, 58, 70, 71, 73 to 78, do. 180, 181. do. 188, 209. do. 159, 164 to 171,
81, 82, 102 to 109, 118, 154 to 158, 242, 243, 249, 174 to 179, 251, 252. do. 181, 192, 203 to 208. do.
277. les. on limitation, as to residence, 58, 118, 266 to 269, 271,275. do. 193, 209, 212.. res. on
158, 243, 249, 277. res. on ļast Wednesday in defence by self and counsel, 209 10-211, 255, 275.
May, 53, 118, 158, 243, 249, 277. . res. on qualify- res. on maintaining armies, 209, 255. res. on levy-
ing, 71,80_258, 265, 266, 277. res. on qualifica- ing taxes, &c. 209, 255. res, on quartering 'sol-
tions, 80-943, 219, 277. res. on supplying vacan- diers, 209, 255. res, on law martial, 209, 255. res.
cies, 80--243, 249, 279. proposition for choosing on filing informations and presentment by grand
by districts, 82, 102 to 108--118, 156 to 158, 242 jury, 188, 211, 212, commiited, 212, coinmittee,
212--for as many candidates as senators, distinct || 213, report, 243, 258, 275. res. on exemption from
from senators, 154 to 156--for general ticket, 108
taxes, 188, 211, 212.
108, 109for senate to designate, 158—for peo- Deeds-registry of by town clerks, 259.
ple to designate, 118-jor senate to be the council, Doane, of Cohasset--uniting towns, 152.
102, 105, 153.m-for abolishing the council, 222--for Donne, of Phillipston--third article, 182.
making no alteration in the mode of choosing, 103, Draper, of Spencer--m. 'for .committee of ac-
104, 213--for do. excepi limiting one to a district, counts, 40. chairman of it, 40. reports, 271. m.
108-for notifying acceptance, 31-on time and journal of debates, &c. 243. m.course of proceed-
mode of choosing, 127--for vacating seat of sena- ing, 171. h. of rep. 120.
tor designated, 118-118, 158---for disqualifying Dution; of Boston--amendments, 257. third ar-
counsellors for any other office, 243, 248.
ticle, 168, 204, 264. council, 73, 76, 108, 155, 158.
Cranston, of Marlborough-h. of rep. 151. see ou report on elections, 33. Charlestown election,
errala.
37. ni. on Plymouth do. 33 to 35. libels, 241. li.
Cummings, of Salen-third article, 268. judi- l gov. 68. senate, 138. voters, 121,
--ciary, 216.
Dwight-m. newspapers, 23. order, 225. course
Dana, of Groton-on resolutions on Mr. Adams, of proceeding, 192." H. of rep. 152, 228. m, on
10. amendments, 257, 270, 272, 273. m. larger do. 228. senate, &c. 126.
apartment, 35. third article, 269. m. do. 209. Elections and returns--committee on, 11, report,
revising constitution, 13, 16, 18. s. & m, copies of 30 to 35. do. 36 10:40. report of coinmittee on
r
INDEX.
289
A
:
.
9
senate, &c. on elections, 97. report discussed, 209. Plymouth election, 33. lieút. gov. 69. course
127, 152, 155. res. on electing state, officers on of proceedings, 192. senate, 150. voters, 122.
same day, and fixing the day, 96, 127, 152, 155, Holmes, of Rochester-amendments, 113. third
275. 'res. on elections of united states officers-- article, 175, 190. judiciary, 217. lieut. gov. 70.
and town and county officers, 97, 127, 152, res, rules, 25 G
'oo printed ballots, 234.
Hoyt-future amendments, 187. banks, 245.
Ellis, of Dedhan-chairman of committee on pay coinmissary general, 56. council; 105. militia, 173.
roll, 13. reports, 256, 270.
newspapers, 23. h. of rep. 120, 121, 150, 151, 230,
Farwell--m, course of proceeding, 125.
232. m. do 150. m. and's. two sessions a day, 78,
Faym-amendments, 117,272. future amendments, 79. exemption from taxes, 212. voters, 250
188. third article, 255, 262. m. do. 255, 256, 259 Hubbard, of Boston-third article, 161, 180, 212. /
go 262, 266, 275. council, 70. declaration of rights, m. preamble of constitution, 19. council, 158. de-
161. informations, 211.' militia, 172. secretary, ferrce by self and counsel, 209. elections, 127, 155.
&c. 65. m. do. 65. sheriffs, 265. chairman of filing informations, 211. Harvard university, 49,
committee of whole, 213.
247, 248. judiciary, 214. m. reports of commit-
Fisher, of Lancaster-m. militia, 172.
tees, 40. k. of rep. 151. m. do: 151. rules, 26.
Fisher, of Westborough-m, and s. address, 188. m. school fund, 40. exemption from taxes, 212.
m. salaries of gov. and judges, 243, 244, 248, 249. test, 88. m. do. 89, to 94.
s, do. 248, 249.
Hussey-council, 106. test, 86, 94.
Flint--amendments, 113. third article, 161, 170, Hyde,
of Lenox-m. to adjourn to Febrồary, 182,
194. m. do. 252, 255, 266.. council, 76, 157. lieut. 186. m. third article, 188, 209.-268. Solicitor
gyv. 70. course of proceeding, 116, 192 hr of rep. general, 213
150, 151,-231, 241. test, 94. voters, 124.
Incoinpatibility of offices-res. on, 66, 94, 95,
Foster,--1ddress, 188. amendments, 112, m. do. | 183, 187, 278.---do. 243, 248.
273. future amendments, 95. third article, 174, Informations, filing of-see declaration of rights.
180, 182, 203, 204, 261, 262. cities, 98. council, Jackson of Bostons, and m. for a cominittee on
74, 158. session of gen. court, 51, 63.., governor', mode of submitting amendments to the people, 66.
110., oaths, 100. coarse of proceeding, 117. h. appointed chairman, 67, report, 97, 111 to 113, s.
of rep. 151. Tules, 12, 29. senate, 116. test, 89. mode of amending constitution, 110, 111, 112, 209.
voters, 121, 121, 187.
Chairman of committee for reducing amendments
Fox-uniting towns, 152. m. representation of to form, 132, reports, 236, 255, 271, 273, 274. 8.
small towns, 241.
amendments reduced to form, 258, 259, 269, 270,
Frazer--. of rep. 233, 241.
273. m. do. 269.-274. time of amendments go-
Freeman, of Boston--third article, 167. Har- ing into operation, 258, 259. ratification of, 257,
vard university, 45. h. of rep. 119. senate, 116. 269, 270. 'third article, 181, 252, 253. m. dó. 182
Freeman, Of Sandwich-amendments, 270. defence by self and counsel, 209. elections, 127.
third article, 261. council, 74, 77, 81, 157. m. do. governor, 110. tibels, 244. course of proceeding,
71, 81. declaration of rights, 161. Harvard uni- 228, 229. h, of rep. 229. m. do. 229, 274.
versity, 221. judiciary, 215, 216. inilitia, 172. Judiciary power--referred, 15, 16, 20. commit-
m. do.'132, 172. h. of rep. 150. m. senate, 149. tee, 22, 31, 35, 36, report, 71, 72. report discus-
solicitor general, 213, 219.' exempting from taxes, sed, 213 to 219, 220, 221,234 to 236. res. on ten.
212. tesi, 92.
ure of judicial officers, courts of equity and appeals
General court--referred, 15, 16, 20. committee, \ 72, 213 to 219, as amended, 220, 221, 234, 236, 278.
21, report, 40. report debated, 50, to 54, 57, 58,61. res. an judges answering questions, 72, 220, 221,
res, on two branches, 54, 57, 58. 61. res. on time 236, 278. les. on jurisdiction in cases of marriage,
of session, 41, 50 to 54, 57, 58, 61, to 65, 275. 'res. &c. and probate appeals, 73, 220, 221, 236. res. on
on governor returning hills, 41, 54, 57, 58, 65, 276. tenure of office of justices of peace and notaries, 73,
ses. on dissolving, 80, 171, 172, 173, 179, 275. 220, 236, 278., res. on salariés, 80. do. 243, 244,
Gifford--plan for h. of rep. 240.
248, 249. do. 259.
Governor---referred, 15, 16, 20. committee, 22, Justice of peace tenure of office, 73, 220, 236,
30, 35. report, 79. report discussed, 109 to 111. 278.
new draft of report, 17i. res. on returning bills and Keyfs, of Concord-defence by self and counsel,
dissolving gen. court-see general courl.
210. do. 209. judiciary, 213. senate, 115. m.
pecuniary qualifications, 79, 109 tolll. res, on re- do. 115, 116. voters, 115. m.do. 115, 116, 118
ligious do. 19. res. ou substitutes for first Monday 122.. see voters.
of April aud last Wednesday of May, 79, 171 to Kneeland-newspapers, 23. senate, 141.
173, 179, 275. res. ou power in cases of marriage, Lams01--uniting towns, 152,
&c. 73, 220, 221, 236. res. on requiring infornia- Lawrence, of Groton--aniendmients, 271. m. on
lion from executive officers, 80. res. on power do. 270. Charlestown election, 37. session of
over the military forces, 80. res, on salary, 80- general court,,53. incompatibility of offices, 183.
243, 214,-248, 249. res. on governor forming the course of proceeding, 79, 192, 228. h. of rep. 120,
sole executive, 221.
152, 232, 241. senare, 119, 128, 149, 224, 240.
Gray, of Boston_lies. on frame of gorernment, Leach-res. on banks, 240, 243, 244, 245, 248.
222. senate, 223.
Leland-council, 81, 103, 158. res. On do. 118-
Gray, of Somerset-uniting towns, 152.
158, course of proceeding, 81, 117. rules, 25.
Harvard university-referred, 15, 16, 20,
senate, 119, 224. m. do. 224. voters, 125, 249.
mittee, 22, 30, 36. report, 40.
report, 40. res. proposing no 0. do. 233-219.
alteration, 40, 42 to 50, 221. m. for expunging the Leonard, of Sturbridge-third article, 190.
constitutional provisions, 49. subjèct referred to Libels--213, 243, 244, 348.
another coininitee, 221, 222. report, 236.
Lieut. gor. &c.referred, 15, 16, 20. commit-
reported, 210, 233, 245 to 250, 278.
tee, 22, 30, 35.
report, 57, discussed, &c. 67 to
Hazard future amendments, 184. third article, 71, 73, 'to 78, 80 to 83, 102, 10 109, 118, 153 to 158,
178, 268. h. of rep. 152.
242, 243, 249. res. on' qualifications, 57, 67, 80,
Hinckley-filing informations, 211,253. m. do. 118, 154, 242, 249, 278. res. on compensation, 67
188, 211 to 213. chairman of conmittee on do: 213. to 70. res. for being president of senate, 102, 105,
report, 243, 258. report and s. on tibels, 243, lieut. 154. res. for aholishing the office, 243.
gov. 69. oaths, 185.
Lincoln, of Boston-third article, 132, 190, 191,
Hoar, of Concord-third article, 162, 181, 189, 202, 251. m. ou elections, 155.
205, 239, 262, 267, 269. m. do. 188 to 192, 253 Lincoln, i.. oi Worcester-ainendments, ils
í
1
l'es. on
com-
res.
290
?
INDEX
1
1
209, 254, 259. future améndosents, 183. third ar- Oaths; &c.-referred, 15, 16, 20. committee, 22.
ticle; 202, 205, 261, 264, 266, 268. m, do. 267.
reports, 65, 66. réports discussed, &c. 83, to 95,
council, 75, 77, 108, 157. m. do. 75 to 78. defence 97 to 100, 104, 105, 182 to 185, 187, 188. rés, on
by sell and coansel; 210. Charlestowni election, oaths and affirmations of allegiance, (without ab-
,
216. course of proceeding, 256. h. of rep. 151
151, | tions, 49, 66, 99, 185
225, 232, 241, 242. res. do. 126, 153. m. do. 151, Offices-res.on incompatibility of; 66, 94, 95, 183,
228. sénate, 126, 129, 134, 139, 140, 224, 225, 187, 278. do 243, 948.
187, 278. do 243, 248. reś. ori pecuniary qualifi-
226. m. do: 224, 225, 226. sheriffs, 265. trea- cations for, 109,
surer, 56. voters, 249, 250. min. do. 233, 249. m. Paige, of Hardwickeamañendiments, 271, m. dė.
peas and nàys, 49.
272. h. of rep. 151. exemplion from taxes, 212,
Little, J. --council, 158. session of general court, Parker,of Boston-chosen president, 11. address
64. 1. of rep. 232.
upon it, 11. vote of thanks to, 256. address in re-
Locke, of Billericame. Ámendments, 259. third
ply, 256. S. and res., on Mi. Adańs, 8, 9, 10.
article, 180. council, 74. h. of rep. 120, 232. sén- amendments, 57. third article, 180, 182, 193, 203.
até, 133, 134, 139, 140: m. voters, 233.
m. do. 193. rep. to congress, 57. council, 71, 74,
Longley-m, and s. h. of
, rep. 119, 120. uniting 3.0; 81,103, 154, 156 residó
. 203 80.pe , 265, 266
towns,
Low-i-third article, 181, 190, 191, 202, 261. and counsel, 209, 210. governor, 109. Harvard
Lyman, of Northanpton-coubcil, 243. m.do. university, 46. filing informations, 211. m. do. 211.
243, 248. res. h. of rep. 126, 153, 222, 228. libels, 244. militia, 173. notaries, 56. order, 82,
Mack-militia, 173
(as presidérit) 59, 63, 105, 117, 184, 225, 226, 228,
Martin-leave of absence, 268. amendments, | 229, 249, 253, 255, 258, 272, 274. course of pro-
270, 271, 272. in. do. 258. third artile, 171, 192. ceeding, 67, 81,110, 115, 163. h. of rep. 151. sen-
cities, 99. council, 82, 157. defence hy self and ate, 127, 149. m. do. 150. solicitor general, 213.
counsel, 210. Harvard university, 44, 221. m. do. Parker, of Charlestown-his.election contested,
H. of rép. 120, 150, 228, 230, || 11, 36 to 40. amendments, 113. future amend-
-231, 232, 241. inles, 26, 30. senate, 148, 223. vot- nients, 95. m. do. 188. m. Harvard university,
CIS, 247, 250.
274. order, 225..h. of rep. 233.
Mattoon-governor, 110. militia, 172: course of Parker, of Soutliborough-l. of rep. 242.
proceeding, 117. rules, 13.
Pay rolímcommittee on, 13. report, 233, 256,
Messenger of convention-appointed, 11.
270.
Militia--referred, 15, 16, 20. committee, 22, Phelps, of Belchertown-third article, 261. m.
30, 35. report, 74, 109 10 111. new draft of re- h. of rep. 242.
port, 171, 172, 173, 179. res. on exemption froń Phelps, of Chester-m. future amendments, 183.
military duty, 40, 79, 173. do. 132, 172, 173. res. third article, 164. m do. 159, 164, 209. exemption
on exempting inilitia from poll tax, 49, 79, 173. from taxes, 211, 212. m. do. 188, 211, 212.
res. on minors in militia voting, 40, 79, 172, Phillips, J.-future amendments, 183, third arti-
173, 179, 278. res. on governor's power over the cle, 190, 205, 267. cities, 273.
cities, 273. council, 104.
military and naval forces, 80. res, on elections Charlestown election, 36, 39. Harvard university,
of captains and subalterne, 80. res, on removal of || 46. judiciary,
46. judiciary, 214. rules, 13. Senate, 224. test '
officers, 80, 172, 173, 179, 278. res. on obsolete 86, 94.
clause on continental army, 80. res. on division of Phillips, W.--calls the convention to order', 8.
militia, 80. res. on governor's requiring information m. scats, 11.
from exécutive officers, 80.
Pickman-chairman of committee on lieut. gov.
Ministers of the gospel-res.exémpting from tax- &c. 22. report, 57. chairman of committee of
es, 188, 211, 212.
whoic, 243 to 248. amendments, 270. future
Mitchell, of Bridgewater--lieut. gov. 70. m. and amendments, 188. third article, 268., cities, 99.
3. h. of rep. 241.
council, 70, 71, 75, 78, 151. m. do. 75 to 78, 243,
Monitors-12, 213.
249, 277. session of general court, 50, 63, 64. ju-
Morton, of Dorchester-amendments, 117. rep. diciary, 213. lieut. gov. 67, newspapers, 22. order,
to côngress, 57, 65: m. do. 57. council, 74, 62, || (as chairman) 248.
chairman) 248. course of proceeding, 115. h.
103, 156, 242. m. do. 82, 102-103, 105 to 108 of rep. 153, 226. rule“, 13, 27, 20%. sheriffs, 266.
118, 156 10 158, 242-242. defence by self and Porter, M.or Hadley-Charlestown election, 36.
counsel, 211. libels, 241. order, 29, 116, 117, 189, Porter, S. of Hadley-Harrard university, 221.
(as chairman) 214. rules, 13, 26, 29. m. do. 13,27 m. h. of rep. 152, 233, 241, 276. solicitor general,
to 29. chairman of committee of whole, 213 10 221. 219.
Mudge, Enoch--amendments, 113, 117. m. do, Prescott-chairman of com. on Senate, &c, 2%.
117. res. scruples about bearing arms, 40, 79, 173. reports, 95, 96. do of con. on business to be act-
s. do. 173. res, iniprisonment for debi, 49, 73,220, ed upon, 159. reports, 186. S. amendments, 259.
221. oaths, 100.
third article, 190. revising constitution, 14.
Naval officer-42, 54 to 58, 65.
do. 15, 16, 18 to 22. m. elections, 127. governor,
Nelson-third arricle, 161, 166.
110. judiciary, 215. order, 225. course of pro
Newhall, of Lynnfield-third articie, 179, 180. ceeding, 116, 185, 223. b. óf rep. 120, 121,150,227,
. do. 179, 180. m. lo adjourn over Christmas day, 231, 232, 233, 241, m.ii. 241-242. res. do. 149
m. oaths, 100. h. of rep. 150, 233.
to 152, 233, 234, 236, 242, 275, 277.-149, 152, 153,
Newspapers-m.to furnish members with, 22,23. 233, 236, 276-225, 233, 242, 274, 276. senate,
Nicholsa-amendments, 270. m. future anend- 116, 119, 135, 149, 223, 226, 249. senate, &c. 114,
ments, 4, 95. third article, 178, 202, 268. m.do. 126. 223.
53. city governments, 99. m.do. 99. m. governor, President of convention-see.Adams and Parker.
109. n. Harvard university,49. militia, 172. oaths, Prince, of Boston-ciles, 99. m. copies of con-
100. res, for substituting affirmations, 49, 66, 99, stitution, 31. council, 81. defence by self anai
185. qualifications for office, 109. in. do. 109. Il counsel, 210. session of gen. court, 53, 64. gor-
order, 86. h. of rep. 151. senate, &c. 118, 126, eroor, 110. judiciary, 23.1. m. do. 219, 220_221,
153, 224. m. do. 126.
1. voters, 125, 135, 186. m. libels, 213, 243, 244, 248. m.prayers, 11. course
Notarier Public-res. on mode of appointment, of proceeding, 111. h. of rep. 231. rules, 13. test,
12, 5+ to 58, U-r-50, 172, 173, 179, 277, res. on 34, 182.
Tenure of ofiice, 73, 277—179,277
Quincy-chairman of conmittee on tſarrard 1n.
1
res.
182.
!
I
:
!
mi. do.
.
270.
INDEX.
291
versity, 22. report, 40. chairman of com.of whole, do. 283. res, po guorum, 96, 121, 233, 242, 277.
132 to 153. s. amendments, 57, 112, 236, 257, 270, res, on privilege from arrest, 96, 121, 238, 242, 217.
271, 272. m. do. 257. future amendments, 183, res. for small towns uniting, 149 to 152, 233, 234,
184, 187. third article; 171, 179, 180, 182, 212, 266. | 242, 275, 277. res. on
242, 275, 277. res. on representation on year of
banks, 245. cities, 99. council, 108, 243. valuation, 149, 152, 153, 233, 236, 276. res. för
243. session of gen. court, 61.
governor, 109. limiting the number of rep. 225, 233, 242, 274, 276.
Harvard university, 42, 43, 44, 49, 246, 248. m. do. system for h. of rep. 119, 120. do. 126, 153, 222,
221, 240. newspapers, 23. order, 53, 63, 86, 105, 228, 229. do. 127, 149. do. 221. do. 126, 153.
109, 113, 116, 226, (as chairman) 150, 151.'course do. 222. do. 240. ses. on qualifications of rep. 118,
of proceeding, 40, 117,"126, 171, 181, 182. h. of 153.
ręp 225, 231, 232. rules, 12, 13, 29. senate, 223, Shaw-banks, 245. cities, 98. defence buy self
225. solicitor general, 219, voters, 122. m.yeas and counsel, 255. judiciary, 214. chairman of
and uays, 236.
committee on rules, 11. reports, 12, 23. §. rules,
Rantoul-third article, 193. h. of rep 232, 241.
24.
solicitor general, 219. voters, 249.
Shepley--s, and m. amendments,
Registry of deeds-in every towa, 259.
Sheriff-res. for electing by counties, 185, 258,
Religion-sec declaration of rights.
265, 266.
Representativessee congress and senate.
Sibleyaamendments, 259. third article, 264,
Richards, of Plainfield-amendments, 271. third council, 81. m. do. J27, 157. declaration of rights,
article, 266.
209, 211. defence by self and counsel, 211. m.
Richardson, of Hingham--third article, 194. ci- for reconsideration, 81. 11. of rep. 150. rules, 12,
ties, 99. m. revising constitution, ,91. Harvard 13, 24. senaté, 119, 224. two sessions a day, 154.
university, 42, 221, 245, 246, 248. judiciary, 213,
voters, 249.
voters, 124.
Slocum, H.maddress, 188. future amend-
Rules and orders, 11 to 13, 16, 17, 23 to 30, 192, ments, 184. third article, 169. revising constitu,
208, 249, 255.
tion, 18. council, 81, 158. defence by self and
Russell, of Boston--course of proceeding, 14, 55. counsel, 211. on report on elections, 32. Ply-
Saltonstall- amendments, 113, 271.
future mouth election, 35. session of gen. court, 63. ju-
amendments, 187. third article, 174, 191, 206, 255, diciary, 217 lieut.gov. 68. militia, 173. b.of rep.
269. m. do. 159.-162 to 164, 181, 188, 189. ci- 232. rules, 12, 16. sevate, 119, 129. exemption
ties, 98. council, 76. session of gen. court, 51.
from taxes, 212. test, 91. voters, 123.
libels, 244, newspapers, 23. course of proceeding,
Solicitor general-res. for abolishing the office,
109, 266. senate, 132. test, 104. voters, 250. m. 155, 213, 219, 220.
do. 249, 250.
Spurr--res, for registering deeds in each town,
Savage--address, 188. third article, 178. decla- 259. res. school fund, 259.
ration of rights, 161. Harvard university, 47. ju- Sprague-third article, 174.
diciary, 214. course of proceeding, 116, 105. rules,
Starkweather-future amendinents, 184. m.bus-
26. exemption froni taxes, 212. test, 93. voters,
iness required to be adted on, 159. council, 81,
125.
243. session of gen, court, 53. judiciary, 216.
School fund-40,61, 259.
course of prneceding, 256. h. of rep. 120. senate,
Secretary of commonwealth, treasurer, &c.-
&c.--re-
224. shidriffs, 185.
ferred, 15, 16, 20. committee, 22. report, 42. re- Stebbins, of Granville---m. salaries of judges,
port discussed, &c 54 to 58, 65. l'es. for filling va-
239.
cancies in offices, '65, 79, 109, 172, 173, 179, 277. Stone, of Stow, &c.--third article, 202,
secretary's report on copies of constitution, 35.
cil, 104.' h. of rep. 121, 242. m.do. 121. test, 90.
Secretary of convention-chosen, 8. ordered to Story, of Salem-on resolutions on Mr. Adams,
transmit articles of amendment, &c. 273.
10. third article, 253, 260, 262, 264, 268, 271. m.
Senate and house of representatives--referred, do. 268. report on do. 271. banks, 244. com-
15, 16, 20. committee, 22, 30, 35. report of com- missary general, 55. m. do. 55, 56. appointing
discussed, &c. 113 to 116, 118 to
committees, 20. districting for rep. to congress,
121, 149, 150, 222 to 233, 240 to 242.
electors, &c. 59. council, 107. Plymouth election,
Senate-es. on the number, 95, 114 to 116, 34. Harvard university, 221, 245 chairman of
118, 119, 223 to 225, 240, 276. do. 14, 16. do. 115, committee on judiciary, 22, reporis on do. 71. ju-
116. do. 221. res. on number of districts, 95, 119, diciary, 220, 234, 248, 249. jusuce of peace, 220.
225, 226, 240, 249, 276. res. for forining districts, lieut. gov. 69. order, 224, 225. course of proceed-
8, 119, 226, 240, 276. do. 122, 126, 149, 222. do? | ing, 32, 51, 105, 221, 223, 256. h. of rep. 223, 224,
149. res. apportioning to the several districts, 95, | 225, 226, 232, 842. rules, 13. senate, 136, 223,
119, 149, 150, 226, 240, 276. res. for substituling 224, 225, 226. m. senate and h. of rep. 224, 225.
January for May, in thiş part of constitution, 95,
226. two sessions a day, 78.
119, 226, 240, 275. res, on quorum of council for Stowell--amendments, 270. third article, 166,
examining returns, 95, 119, 226, 240, 297.
191. h. of rep. 152, 153, 233.
quorum of senate, 95, 119, 226, 240, 276 do. 222. Sturgis-amendments, 270. banks, 245.
res. on privilege from arrest, 96, 121, 233, 242, I missary general, 56. council, 81, 153, 157. m. do.
277. proposition for basis on population, 14, 16. 81. governor, 110. m. pay roll, 233. course ot
do. 122, 125 to 148. do. 149. do. 224, 225, 226. proceeding, 111, 256. h. of rep. 151, 233. m. do.
res. on qualification of senators, 118, 153. do. 149: || 233. m. rule, 249. exemption from taxes, 212.
res. for senators for two years, 223. res. for trane
test, 94.
of government, 102, 105, 154.' do. 221.
Sullivan, of Brookline-third article,. 178, 181.
House of representativesres. on number Sullivan, of Boston-chairman of commitice 10
of inhabitants for one rep. 95, 119 to 121, 226 to prepare address, 192. reports address, 271, 273.
230, 240, 241, 276. res. on the increasing number, amendments, 209, 270. 11. do. 270. third article,
96, 121, 230, 241, 276. res. on small towns send 180. S. and mi cupies of constitution; 31. Ply-
ing every other year, 96, 121, 230, 241, 276. res.
for classing
towns, 96, 121, 230, 241, 276. do. 152, | 222. res. do, 222. senate, 129. solicitor genera)
233, 241, 276. res. on towns increasing to twelve
219. m. voters, 233.
fundred inhabitants, 96, 1e1, 230, 231, 241, 276. Taft-m. council, A3.
res. On new towns, 96; 121, 231, 241, 277. do. 241. Talbot-militia, 173.
res. for paying rep.fron treasury, 96, 121, 231 to
, ,
Test omitted in oath of office, 66, 83 to 94,
233, 241, 242, 277. res, for paying by towns,
228. 104, 105, 182, 183, 187, 278,
coun-
l'es, on
com-
292
INDEX.
1
ni.
course of
Thompson of Charlestown-Charlestowii elec- Ware-third article, 181, 189. m. inilitia, 173.
tion, 38, 40.
m. test, 94.
Thorndike-third article, 181, 267. m. do. 267. Webster, D...mode of amending constitution,
banks, 244. council, 156. m. Harvard university, 112, 209. revising do. 19.-ratification of amend-
221. course of proceeding, 256. exemption from ments, 270, 271. mi amendments, 126, 132, 270,
taxes, 212. voters, 124.
271. future amendments, 95, 183, 184, 137. m. do.
Tilden, of Hanson--third article, 181. h. of rep. 95–183. third article, 201, 202, 203, 207, 266, 267,
152.
268. m. do. 202-266. m. chaplains, 11, 12, 16.
Tillinghast—third article, 181, 182, 189, 251. appointing committees, 20. m. standing committees,
m.do. 288. council, 108. m. do. 108 m. session 65. chairman of committee of whole, 50, to 57,
of gen. court, 53, 54. Harvard university, 221, 118 to 131, 153 to 158, 259 to 266. votes in the
946. militia, 173. newspapers, 23. order, 266. chair, 125. council, 74, 78, 81, 82, 105, 243.
h. of rep. 233, exemption from taxes, 212. do. 78. declaration of rights, 209, 210. defence
Traskamjudiciary, 214.
by self and counsel, 210. · Harvard university, 49,
Treasurer-see secretary of commonwealth. 221, 245, 247. chairman of committee on do. 222,
Tuckerman-third article, 165, 167. Harvard report, 236, 243, 245 to 250. incompatibility of offi-
university, 45. test, 87. m. do. 104, 105, 152, 182, ces, 92, 183, 243. m. do. 183. filing informations,
183.
258. judiciary, 216, 217. m. do. 219, 220. neurs-
Turner-m. chaplains, 12. mn. compensation of papers, 23. chairman of committee on oaths, &c,
members, 13. council, 243. m. pay roll, 13. 22. reports, 65. s. oaths, 99, 100, 185. order, 49, 63,
Valentine--militia, 172. sheriffs, 185. m. do. 81, 83, 86, 110, 118, 150, 189, 20%, 221, 223, 225,
185, 258, 265, 266.
267, (as chairman) 53, 55, 56, 121, 157.
Varnum-amendments, 112, 258, 259, 270, 271, proceeding, 110, 111, 111, 152, 216, 228, 245, 267,
273. m. on do. 258, 259. future amendments, 188. 271. m. do. 126, 271. h. of rep. 150, 151, 228. dis-
third article, 253, 255, 263, 267. revising constitu.1) tricting the state for electors, &c. and rep. to con-
tion, 14, 16, 18, 19 chailman of connittee of gress, 60. rules, 12, 13, 27, 29. mido. 26-29, 30.
whole, 42 to 50, 67 to 71, 73 10 78, 80 to 83, 100, senate, 141. m. do. 14. 106, 83. voters, 185,
102 to 109, 113 to 117,159 to 171, 174 to 182, 168 to
249.
ni. do. 249.
212. votes in the chair, 202. session of general Welles, J. of Boston-banks, 245. chairman of
court, 54. chairman of committee on governor, committee on delegates to congress, 22-reports,
reports, 79, 171. governor, 109, 12. newspapers, 23 li. of rep. 150, 151.
110. m. do. 110. Harrarel university, 245. mili- 150. exemption from taxes, 212.
tia, 172, 173. poturics, 56. m. do. 179. order, Wells, S. A. cſ Buston-amendments, 270. ci.
150, 267; (as chairman) 69, 75, 81, 82, 102, 116, 11-ties, 99. 27. do. 273. council, 118. m. do. 73
161, 164, 189, 202. in. pay roll, 256. m. of thanks 118. session of general court, 53. h. of rep. 151,
to the president, 256. m. president's answer, 257, 231. rules, 25, 27. test, 89.
appointed president pro tem. 168. course of pro- Whittemore-third article, 182. council, 157.
ceeding, 31, 79, 83, 118, 119, 185, 208, 222, 229. m. governor, 111.
m. do. 186,274. h. of rep. 224, 229, 241, 242, rules, Willard, o Fitchburg-incompatibility of offices,
25, 27, 29, 30, 208. m. do. 192, 208. senate, 224. 183. res. exempling militia fron poll tax, 49, 79,
volers, 125, 187, 249, 250. m. do. 233.
173.
Voters-proposition on qualification of, 115, 116, Wildeamendments, 112. third article, 163,
118, 121 to 125, 185, 186, 187-subject coinmitted, 170, 181, 189, 192, 202, 204, 203.. course of pro-
187-report, 222, 233, 249, 250, 277.
ceeding, 181, 185, 189, 202, 267. senate, 131, 150.
Walker, uf Templeton-third article, 254.
test, 90.
sion of general court, 64. incompatibility of offices, Williams, of Beverly-amendments, 113. third
183. test, 93.
article, 161, 174, 131, 182, 192, 193, 202, 207, 254.
Walter--amendments, 271. city corporations, res. do. 181, 191, 203 to 208. m oaths, 100. course.
35. m. do. 35, 66,95, 97 to 99, 184, 185, 188, 276. of proceeding, 182, 189. test, 94.
reports on journal of bebates, éc. 256. solicitor Yeas and nays-laken on third article, 252.
geueral, 219.
mode of revising constitution, 19, 20. on session of
Ward-rh. of rep. 150, 151, m. do. 150 to 152. general court, 65, 91. on h. of rep. 239. on senate,
chairman of committee on secretary, &c. 22.
Q25.
m. on yeas and nays, 49
do. 236.
ports, 4, 109. s. do. 54, 56, 57, 79. M. secretary Year, political-article of amendment respecting,
and treasurer, 79. solicitor general, 213.
258, 259, 275, 280.
m. do.
SCS-
on
re-
ERRATA
PO
From page 140 to page :49, exclusive, in the paging, for 241, &c. read 141, &c.
Page 155. line 46. for Co. of Urange, read Fox, of Berkeley,
Page 159. line 9, for Crandon, of Rochester, read Cranston, of Marlborough.
Page 169, line 12, for interests, read intents.
age 182, line 12, from bottom, fill the blanks with Doane, of Phillipston.
Page 188, line 23, from bottom, for 1000 dollars per annum, read 1000 dollars in the whole.
Page 217, line 60, for Jreby, read Treby.
Page 221, line 21, from bottom, for Story, read Slowell,
Page 243, line 12, for Rochester, read Westborough.
Page 244, line 13 and 14. for disagreed, read agreed.
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